#Krugman: What Obama Wants
6119 Dead, 1262 since 1/20/09
What Obama Wants
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: July 7, 2011
On Thursday, President Obama met with Republicans to discuss a debt deal.
We don’t know exactly what was proposed, but news reports before the
meeting suggested that Mr. Obama is offering huge spending cuts, possibly
including cuts to Social Security and an end to Medicare’s status as a
program available in full to all Americans, regardless of income.
Obviously, the details matter a lot, but progressives, and Democrats in
general, are understandably very worried. Should they be? In a word, yes.
Now, this might just be theater: Mr. Obama may be pulling an anti-
Corleone, making Republicans an offer they can’t accept. The reports say
that the Obama plan also involves significant new revenues, a notion that
remains anathema to the Republican base. So the goal may be to paint the
G.O.P. into a corner, making Republicans look like intransigent
extremists — which they are.
But let’s be frank. It’s getting harder and harder to trust Mr. Obama’s
motives in the budget fight, given the way his economic rhetoric has
veered to the right. In fact, if all you did was listen to his speeches,
you might conclude that he basically shares the G.O.P.’s diagnosis of
what ails our economy and what should be done to fix it. And maybe that’s
not a false impression; maybe it’s the simple truth.
One striking example of this rightward shift came in last weekend’s
presidential address, in which Mr. Obama had this to say about the
economics of the budget: “Government has to start living within its
means, just like families do. We have to cut the spending we can’t afford
so we can put the economy on sounder footing, and give our businesses the
confidence they need to grow and create jobs.”
That’s three of the right’s favorite economic fallacies in just two
sentences. No, the government shouldn’t budget the way families do; on
the contrary, trying to balance the budget in times of economic distress
is a recipe for deepening the slump. Spending cuts right now wouldn’t
“put the economy on sounder footing.” They would reduce growth and raise
unemployment. And last but not least, businesses aren’t holding back
because they lack confidence in government policies; they’re holding back
because they don’t have enough customers — a problem that would be made
worse, not better, by short-term spending cuts.
In his brief remarks after Thursday’s meeting, by the way, Mr. Obama
seemed to reiterate the Herbert Hooveresque view that deficit reduction
is what we need to “grow the economy.”
People have asked me why the president’s economic advisers aren’t telling
him not to believe in the confidence fairy — that is, not to believe the
assertion, popular on the right but overwhelmingly refuted by the
evidence, that slashing spending in the face of a depressed economy will
magically create jobs. My answer is, what economic advisers? Almost all
the high-profile economists who joined the Obama administration early on
have either left or are leaving.
Nor have they been replaced. As The Wall Street Journal recently noted,
there are a “stunning” number of vacancies in important economic posts.
So who’s defining the administration’s economic views?
Some of what we’re hearing is presumably coming from the political team,
whose members seem to believe that a move toward Republican positions,
reminiscent of former President Bill Clinton’s “triangulation” in the
1990s, is the key to Mr. Obama’s re-election. And Mr. Clinton did,
indeed, rebound from a big defeat in the 1994 midterms to win big two
years later. But some of us think that the rebound had less to do with
his rhetorical move to the center than with the five million jobs the
economy added over those two years — an achievement not likely to be
repeated this time, especially not in the face of harsh spending cuts.
Anyway, I don’t believe that it’s all political calculation. Watching Mr.
Obama and listening to his recent statements, it’s hard not to get the
impression that he is now turning for advice to people who really believe
that the deficit, not unemployment, is the top issue facing America right
now, and who also believe that the great bulk of deficit reduction should
come from spending cuts. It’s worth noting that even Republicans weren’t
suggesting cuts to Social Security; this is something Mr. Obama and those
he listens to apparently want for its own sake.
Which raises the big question: If a debt deal does emerge, and it
overwhelmingly reflects conservative priorities and ideology, should
Democrats in Congress vote for it?
Mr. Obama’s people will no doubt argue that their fellow party members
should trust him, that whatever deal emerges was the best he could get.
But it’s hard to see why a president who has gone out of his way to echo
Republican rhetoric and endorse false conservative views deserves that
kind of trust.
Tom Gardner
What leftists believe is truly astonishing! How do you guys suspend logic?
6119 Dead, 1262 since 1/20/09
Bubbles, YOU'RE the one saying if we take money out of general
circulation, the economy will improve.
Tom Gardner
<snip>
>>> that kind of trust.
>>
>> What leftists believe is truly astonishing! How do you guys suspend
>> logic?
>
> Bubbles, YOU'RE the one saying if we take money out of general
> circulation, the economy will improve.
Are you using a random word generator to compose your posts? Or, is
that what your masters told you to type? Or, are you on drugs?
6119 Dead, 1262 since 1/20/09
Ah. So you're not used to getting responses, I see. And are
spectacularly ill-equipped to handle one when it does come.
Tom Gardner
Well Bunkey, have you ever had an original thought? Or do you only
parrot your masters?
6119 Dead, 1262 since 1/20/09
The earth revolves around the sun.
London is the main city of England.
Taking money out of circulation causes an economic slowdown.
None of these are original thoughts.
All, however, are quite true.
Sid9
"Tom Gardner" <Mars@tacks> wrote in message
news:j96dnUWwjvEZP4rT...@giganews.com...
Look in a mirror.
You're a Republican stooge repeating the party line.
6119 is RIGHT. You are wrong
6119 Dead, 1262 since 1/20/09
Poor bastard has to ignore all of America's economic history dating back
to 1981, and in all likelihood, go against his own best interests.
Tom Gardner
TRANSLATION: you can only parrot your leftist idiot masters.
Tom Gardner
Yea, like your opinion means anything. You are only here to entertain
us with your stupidity. Besides, all of your nyms support each of your
other nyms. You've never had an original thought in your life! Sucks
to be a stooge for the leftist idiots.
Ray Fischer
>On 7/8/2011 4:47 PM, 6119 Dead, 1262 since 1/20/09 wrote:
>>>> that kind of trust.
>>>
>>> What leftists believe is truly astonishing! How do you guys suspend
>>> logic?
>>
>> Bubbles, YOU'RE the one saying if we take money out of general
>> circulation, the economy will improve.
>
>Are you using a random word generator to compose your posts?
Do you do anything but fart parroted stupidity?
--
Ray Fischer | Mendocracy (n.) government by lying
rfis...@sonic.net | The new GOP ideal
Steve
Jamieson is a typical leftist.. he claims that he knows what other
people's "best interest" is and he would, if he could, force it upon
them...
--
"Well, that's the funny thing about terrorists. If they get what they
want, they stop being terrorists."
--Zepp Jamieson
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=q5sc50lf1id03ms1i9truk78v2dk6052f5%404ax.com
"The South couldn't taken any more of the Missouri Compromise,
sensing (correctly) that it would kill slavery in the end,
and Lincoln planned to uphold it."
--Zepp Jamieson
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=9j2n5vsqfga7l2fsrt0polt2eg6lqs71hv%404ax.com
"The first amendment means that you are protected by law from haters."
--Zepp Jamieson
"http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_541474719
If Nevermore tries paying cap gains with a 1040, he'll
be in jail soon enough.
--Zepp Jamieson, Dec 3, 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/30fdaff423e2029b?hl=en&
"I just found out that Condoleezza Rice, [...], the National Security
advisor, spend last evening attending a Broadway play."
--Zepp Jamieson Sep 1, 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.rush-limbaugh/msg/30ffcc5ea6364557?hl=en&
"No plane hit the Pentagon. I don’t know what did,[...]"
-- Zepp Jamieson
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/39d98c910d32047b?hl=en
"Incidently, the fact that the Constitution specifies that people have
a right to vote in a presidential election pretty much takes the
choice of having [a presidential election] out of the hands of the states."
Zepp Jamieson Sun, Sep 3 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.liberalism/msg/efb4fcac7b1561cb?hl=en&
"So you chuckleheads think a GPS is a completely passive receiver, is that correct?"
--DAvid (Zepp) Jamieson
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sixtyplus/msg/b4dc880575948b5d?hl=en
"farms were never subject to inheritance taxes. What sort of
moron are you? "
David (Zepp) Jamieson
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.california/msg/5c59cc2755acd39c?hl=en
Sid9
"Tom Gardner" <Mars@tacks> wrote in message
You have nothing of value to add so you make personal attack!
"Taking money out of circulation causes an economic slowdown." is correct!
6127 Dead, 1270 since 1/20/09
Tom obviously isn't mentally equipped to understand that. I think
further efforts to convince him would only be mocking him.
But he's an asshole, so let's mock him.
Steve
<LOL> The only way to take money out of circulation is to take the
actual cash and hide it somewhere...
>Tom obviously isn't mentally equipped to understand that. I think
>further efforts to convince him would only be mocking him.
>
>But he's an asshole, so let's mock him.
<ROTFLMAO>
What a bunch of morons these two lefties are.. One can have millions
of dollars invested or just sitting in a bank and not a penny of it is
"out of circulation"...
so lets mock them..
Tom Gardner
The belief system of leftists is amusing. How they are able to dismiss
logic, ignore simple math and blindly follow their masters' plan of
destruction is pure stupidity or more likely...pure evil.
Z
wrote:
Taking money from the American people and giving it to the corrupt
government will not improve the economy.
6127 Dead, 1270 since 1/20/09
Eh. This one's got nothing to say.
Plonk.
6127 Dead, 1270 since 1/20/09
Taking it from the American people and giving it to far more corrupt
bankers and corporations didn't work.
And you're here to whine because people want to take it BACK from corrupt
bankers and corporations.
Sid9
"Tom Gardner" <Mars@tacks> wrote in message
Would you tell us the courses in finance and economics that leads you to
your beliefs?
Z
The honest bankers and corporations give value to the people; the more
corrupt politicians don't.
Bankers and business people build a better country. The corrupt
politicians tear it down.
6127 Dead, 1270 since 1/20/09
Fucks' sake, where have you BEEN since 2007. Did you miss EVERY news
story about the financial meltdown since then?
Also, the AVERAGE income of a hedge fund manager is $35 million a year.
What to hedge funds create in the way of value to the people, exactly?
> Bankers and business people build a better country. The corrupt
> politicians tear it down.
So tell us about how much better the country has been since Glass-Stegel
was effectively rescinded.
Ray Fischer
><LOL> The only way to take money out of circulation is to take the
>actual cash and hide it somewhere...
Wow. What a moron! It doesn't even realize that there isn't even
$1 trillion of currency in circulation in a $14 trillion/year economy.
Ray Fischer
"Logic" like "give more money to the rich any maybe they'll share some
with me".
Moron.
Here's a clue, idiot: Only a small part of the money in circulation
is in the form of cash.
Z
politicians.
> Also, the AVERAGE income of a hedge fund manager is $35 million a year.
> What to hedge funds create in the way of value to the people, exactly?
>
Probably as much as a $35M ballplyer.
Why else would he be paid $35mil?
> > Bankers and business people build a better country. The corrupt
> > politicians tear it down.
>
> So tell us about how much better the country has been since Glass-Stegel
> was effectively rescinded.
Not much. It's probably made things worse. Wall street wanted to
merge investment banking with
regular banking and paid the corrupt politicians to do it.
"Only eight senators would vote against the measure -- lionized by its
proponents, including senior staff in the Clinton administration and
many now staffing President Obama, as the most important breakthrough
in the worlds of finance and politics in decades."-HP
Steve
I've come to that conclusion that they're just really stupid...
Steve
1/20/09" <de...@gone.com> wrote:
<LOL> The only way to take money out of circulation is to take the
actual cash and hide it somewhere...
>Tom obviously isn't mentally equipped to understand that. I think
>further efforts to convince him would only be mocking him.
>
>But he's an asshole, so let's mock him.
<ROTFLMAO>
Ray Fischer
><LOL> The only way to take money out of circulation is to take the
>actual cash and hide it somewhere...
The dumbass doesn't realize that cash is only a small part of the
money actually in circulation. About 10% of the total money supply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply#United_States
But you can count on a rightard to be uninformed, stupid, and proud of it.
>What a bunch of morons these two lefties are.. One can have millions
>of dollars invested or just sitting in a bank and not a penny of it is
>"out of circulation"...
And how much of it is cash, dumbass rightard?
Ray Fischer
>> Taking it from the American people and giving it to far more corrupt
>> bankers and corporations didn't work.
>>
>> And you're here to whine because people want to take it BACK from corrupt
>> bankers and corporations.
>
>The honest bankers and corporations give value to the people; the more
>corrupt politicians don't.
Politicians like Madoff? Lehman Brothers? Bannk of America?
>Bankers and business people build a better country.
Which ones paid you to write that?
Ray Fischer
>> > On Jul 9, 10:45 am, "6127 Dead, 1270 since 1/20/09" <d...@gone.com>
>> >> Taking it from the American people and giving it to far more corrupt
>> >> bankers and corporations didn't work.
>>
>> >> And you're here to whine because people want to take it BACK from
>> >> corrupt bankers and corporations.
>>
>> > The honest bankers and corporations give value to the people; the more
>> > corrupt politicians don't.
>>
>> Fucks' sake, where have you BEEN since 2007. Did you miss EVERY news
>> story about the financial meltdown since then?
>>
>That meltdown was mostly caused by corrupt and incompetent
>politicians.
There's a classic example of the Stockholm syndrome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
>> Also, the AVERAGE income of a hedge fund manager is $35 million a year.
>> What to hedge funds create in the way of value to the people, exactly?
>>
>Probably as much as a $35M ballplyer.
When was the last time a ballplayer caused a worlwide economic
meltdown?
6127 Dead, 1270 since 1/20/09
You don't even follow the news, do you?
Well, no point in wasting time on you. Run along. Come back when you
know something.
Anything.
Steve
<LOL> That's from David (Zepp) Jamieson who apparently believes that
people are "taking money out of circulation."
Tom Gardner
<snip>
>>> What a bunch of morons these two lefties are.. One can have millions
>>> of dollars invested or just sitting in a bank and not a penny of it is
>>> "out of circulation"...
>>>
>>> so lets mock them..
>>
>> The belief system of leftists is amusing. How they are able to dismiss
>> logic, ignore simple math and blindly follow their masters' plan of
>> destruction is pure stupidity or more likely...pure evil.
>
>
> I've come to that conclusion that they're just really stupid...
>
There are only two or three of them but they use so many nyms....just
like how any Democrats get elected. I blame whoever shut down so many
mental hospitals and put these leftists on the street
Sid9
"Tom Gardner" <Mars@tacks> wrote in message
Oh, that was St Reagan, the senile