!STARR WARS- HALE CONTRADICTS SELF!!!
Tim Watson
>From Reuters, April 8, 1996:
>
> The man who has accused President Clinton of participating in an illegal
> loan scheme conceded in court Monday that he has no evidence to back up
> his claim.
>
> The witness, former Arkansas investment banker David Hale,
> appeared far less precise in recounting Clinton's alleged
> statements at the meeting where he claims the alleged scheme was
> hatched.
>
> ``I can't recall specifically what he said,'' Hale told the
> jury under cross-examination, although he had testified for the
> government last week that Clinton had said ``My name can't show
> up in this'' in connection with a loan.
>
> Hale also admitted he paid no income tax on profits from
> several real estate ventures financed through loans from his
> investment company to shell corporations he set up.
>
> The prosecution conceded Monday following the day in court
> that Hale had told differing accounts of a conversation in which
> he quoted McDougal as saying illegal loans were needed ``to take
> care of Arkansas's political family.''
>
> Hale testified that Tucker may not have been present when
> McDougal allegedly made the incriminating remark, despite having
> said last week that he was present.
>
>
> "Oh, what a tangled web we weave
> When first we practice to deceive!"
>
> Sir Walter Scott
>
>Don't bother with details. On with the hanging. Forget the lousy evidence.
>
>HR
Not as an attempt to respond to Well2, who has his mind made up, but as a
matter of information to the rest of you: The Reuters stories about the
ongoing trial in Little Rock are written by a stringer named Steve
Barnes, who is an LR TV talking head for the NBC station there. On
Fridays, Barnes hosts a "Washington Week in Review" clone on Arkansas
Public TV called "Arkansas Week". The panel of Arkansas journalists on
this program are all big-time Clintonites, most of them reporters from a
political tabloid called "Arkansas Times". Most of the reporters for the
"Arkansas Times" are former employees of the defunct "Arkansas Gazette",
which was the Arkansas voice of the Democratic Party and rather hard left
editorially, until its owner, Gannett, closed it when it lost a newspaper
war with the more mainstream "Arkansas Democrat", which then purchased
the assets of the folded Gazette, including the name, and became the
"Arkansas Democrat-Gazette." The owner of the ADG, an Arkansas
businessman named Walter Hussman, refused to hire the leftist editorial
staff of the Gazette, who moved en mass to a monthly, slick magazine
about places to eat and museum exhibits known as "The Arkansas Times."
The Gazette bunch changed the format of the Times to a weekly
tabloid-style gossip and politics publication. It is as silly leftist as
it gets, and it is the staff from the editorial pages of this joke who
are the regular panelists on "Arkansas Week". All this is to tell you
that Steve Barnes is a committed Clintonite, and his Reuters dispatches
should be taken with a 2-pound box of Morton's salt, iodized, if
possible.
For example, have you ever seen a sentence like the following in a real
news report: "The man who has accused President Clinton of participating
in an illegal loan scheme conceded in court Monday that he has no
evidence to back up his claim."? That, of course, is not what David Hale
"conceded", and the very phrasing of that sentence betrays its author as
an advocate for the Clintons. Hale testified that Clinton was present
when the illegal loan scheme was formulated and that Clinton participated
in the conversation, to the extent of warning Hale that "My name can't be
on any papers". That's "evidence", whether you believe it or not.
Barnes is apparently doing his best to help Slick, and that's fine as
long as everyone who reads his reports understands that.
Dan Thornsberry
>>HR
How very Starr of you Timmy.
You did not refute one word of the original post,
but instead you try to slander the news source.
When you champion a witch hunt like this, you must
ignore every fact that you hero Hale is an admitted
perjurer. a thief, a pathalogical liar and a GOP
hired assassin.
Now it comes out that the scum bag Hale has some
connections with an attorney, Theodore Olson,
who by some magical coincidence is the former law
partner of the corrupt Kenneth Starr.
--
"America, love it or leave it" - The Old Right
"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
"I am the GOP" - Timothy McVeigh
"Send us your insane, your violent, your racist" - Statue of Montana
"Give any senile old fool a credit card and he can
give you the illusion of prosperity" - Ronald Reagan
"Mommie, did the astrologer OK the press conference?" R. Reagan
"I might not be good enough for the US, but I'm
still good enough for Texas" - Phil Gramm
"The guvermint spens two much on edjication" - The GOP
"Come here little girl, I have something for you" - D. Koresh
"I am the NRA" - Timothy McVeigh
"OK son, If you see anyone coming, blast away" - R. Weaver
"Is the cash in the envelope?" - Newt Gingrich
"Yes sir, Mr. Gambino" - Alfonse D'Amato
"Yes sir, Mr. D'Amato" - Kenneth Starr
"When your fans are idiots, facts don't matter" - Rush Limbaugh
"Elect me because I'm too old to try later" - Bob Dole
"Yassuh Boss" - Clarence Thomas
============================================================
| | The GOP wants more guns |
| Dan Thornsberry | |
|tbe...@computek.net | and less education!!! |
| | |
============================================================
The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty;
but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong,
means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the
weak. -Will Durant
Dan Thornsberry
Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
the federal judge at his plea bargain hearing. Even though
the special prosecuter was present and knew Hale was lying
he did not tell the judge that his "Starr" witness was
lying
Hale has admitted to telling hundreds of lies, yet
the GOP assassin Starr expects us to believe him
in his unsubstantiated story about Clinton having
knowledge of the infamous $300,000 loan.
Scum bag Hale, shopped his story to every right
winger he could find in his quest for trading
his perjury for a reduced sentence.
Now by a stroke of magic, one of the early contacts
Hale made was with a Theodore Olson who just happens
to be the former law partner of --shock-- Kenneth
Starr.
The levels of corruption by the GOP in the matter of
whitewater is getting deeper and more criminal than any
of the actual whitewater accusations.
Wayne Mann
RHA
Ah-huh....
>an advocate for the Clintons. Hale testified that Clinton was present
>when the illegal loan scheme was formulated and that Clinton participated
>in the conversation, to the extent of warning Hale that "My name can't be
>on any papers". That's "evidence", whether you believe it or not.
Except maybe that Hale can't remember when it happened nor who was
there to verify his testimony. But he does remember the
plea-bargain deal that Starr got him. I wonder which point remains
crystal-clear in his mind?
Is Starr going to try getting an indictment for the perjurious
testimony and statements Hale has now admitted to?
>Barnes is apparently doing his best to help Slick, and that's fine as
>long as everyone who reads his reports understands that.
But, and this point may be fuzzy in your mind, Barnes isn't a
witness in the case. So who cares? Ohhh, you do, cuz you only
want anti-Clinton rantings printed, regardless of accuracy,
right?
--
rha
Tim Watson
I guess that ought to be responded to - I'm not sure. rha has missed the
point of a long post so entirely I don't quite know what to say.
Except that I was writing about an international news organization and
the biases of its stringer in Little Rock, Arkansas, who is reporting on
a story of some interest to some of us. It seemed to me to be of some
relevance that Barnes is biased, and to point out, as an example of what
I meant, a sentence which would never appear in a real news story.
I hope no one misunderstood me to say that I thought Barnes is a witness
in the trial.
I hope no one misunderstood the point of my post to have anything to do
with David Hale's credibility. That can be argued about, certainly, but
I wasn't writing about it, and rha just got lost somewhere.
I think the truth is that rha just wanted to spout off again about David
Hale, and he chose my post as his vehicle.
Dan Thornsberry
>
>I guess that ought to be responded to - I'm not sure. rha has missed the
>point of a long post so entirely I don't quite know what to say.
>
>Except that I was writing about an international news organization and
>the biases of its stringer in Little Rock, Arkansas, who is reporting on
>a story of some interest to some of us. It seemed to me to be of some
>relevance that Barnes is biased, and to point out, as an example of what
>I meant, a sentence which would never appear in a real news story.
>
>I hope no one misunderstood me to say that I thought Barnes is a witness
>in the trial.
>
>I hope no one misunderstood the point of my post to have anything to do
>with David Hale's credibility. That can be argued about, certainly, but
>I wasn't writing about it, and rha just got lost somewhere.
>
>I think the truth is that rha just wanted to spout off again about David
>Hale, and he chose my post as his vehicle.
>
The point was that Hale is a pahalogical lying scumbag
who has been hired by Starr to perjure himself. Unable
to defend said lying scumbag, you procede in an attempt
to insinuate the reporter is giving us less than the
facts.
It is D'Amafia and Starr who are giving us the bullshit
witch-hunt call watergate.
You guys who maintain
alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater.circle-jerk are
on the verge of having your little conspiracy fest
canceled and it is making you more crazy!
--
Find the REAL quotes:
"America, love it or leave it" - The Old Right
"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
"I am the GOP" - Timothy McVeigh
"Send us your insane, your violent, your racist" - Statue of Montana
"Give any senile old fool a credit card and he can
give you the illusion of prosperity" - Ronald Reagan
"Mommie, did the astrologer OK the press conference?" R. Reagan
"I might not be good enough for the US, but I'm
still good enough for Texas" - Phil Gramm
"The guvermint spens two much on edjication" - The GOP
"Come here little girl, I have something for you" - D. Koresh
"I am the NRA" - Timothy McVeigh
"I am personally responsible for beginning 80% of
all conversations in the US." - Rush limbaugh
Ralph W. Traylor
>
> Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
> the federal judge at his plea bargain hearing. Even though
> the special prosecuter was present and knew Hale was lying
> he did not tell the judge that his "Starr" witness was
> lying
>
> Hale has admitted to telling hundreds of lies, yet
> the GOP assassin Starr expects us to believe him
> in his unsubstantiated story about Clinton having
> knowledge of the infamous $300,000 loan.
If Hale is a liar, how do you know he's telling the truth when
he admits perjury? Obviously you believe Hale has some
credibility, otherwise you wouldn't quote him so much.
Dan Thornsberry
says...
Is it possible that you are actually this stupid?
dogboy
>
> Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
Hale the clinton appointed judge.
WellWell
OK. Hale is the Clinton appointed judge who became Hale the GOP hired perjurer.
Sound better? Somehow I knew you'd think it would.
HR
dogboy
> dogboy wrote:
> > >
> > > Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
> >
> > Hale the clinton appointed judge.
>
> OK. Hale is the Clinton appointed judge who became Hale the GOP hired perjurer.
> Sound better? Somehow I knew you'd think it would.
So are you going to insist the GOP hired the McDougals too?
One does not have to look to deeply at the administration to see
the rather large amount characturs Clinton surrounds himself
with. I suspect you figure the GOP paid Paula Jones, and the Ark State troopers off as well.
Tim Watson
dog...@io.com (dogboy) wrote:
>Dan Thornsberry (tbe...@computek.net) wrote:
>>
>> Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
>
>Hale the clinton appointed judge.
>
And longtime business and political associate, financial backer, and
close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
friends.
Tim Watson
Dan Thornsberry
In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
MartinMcP
Dan Thornsberry wrote:
[SNIP]
Find the REAL quotes:
"I smoke Bill's flesh cigar, sure I do" Danny T.
"I'm a sad little pussy" - Dan Thornsberry
"I'm pretty lame sonny" - T'Berculosis
"I hate!" - The Old Thornsberry
"I hate with prejudice!" - The New Thornsberry
"I am the Democrat of the Future" - D. Thornsberry
"I am insane, I am violent, I am racist" - Dan Thornsberry
"I might be only a senile fool with a credit card and an
internet account but I can still hate" - D.T.
"Mommie, did Mr. Begala come by with the fudge?" -Thornsberry
"I might not be good enough for the Post Office, but I'm
still good enough for Bill Clinton" - Dan T'Berry
"The guvermint spent 8G's a year on my edjication" - T'Berry
"Come here little girl, I have a little something for you" - Dan
"I am gay, too" - Danny Thornsberry
"I am personally responsible for destroying my own reputation."
- Dan Thornsberry
"OK Mom, If you see anyone coming, lift me off the potty" - DT
"Is the hash in the envelope?" - Dan T.
"Yes sir, Mr. Howdy" - Danny
"Are you looking for a date, Big Boy" - Danielle
"When your usenet friends are idiots, facts don't matter" - Dan
"Neglect me and I'll find new levels of hate and vulgarity" - DT
"Yassuh Mr. Begala Boss" - Dan Thornsberry
============================================================
| | The Dems wants more sick |
| Dan Thornsberry | |
|tbe...@computek.net | mindfuckers like me!!! |
| | |
============================================================
I am writing from the grave to let the world know how agonizing
it is to know that a sick graceless pervert like Dan Thornsberry
is quoting me in his internet signature.
-Will Durant
Eleanor Rotthoff
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>
>>dog...@io.com (dogboy) wrote:
>>>Dan Thornsberry (tbe...@computek.net) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
>>>
>>>Hale the clinton appointed judge.
>>>
>>
>>
>>And longtime business and political associate, financial backer, and
>>close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
>>Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
>>Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
>>friends.
>>
>>
>>
>>Tim Watson
>>
>
>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
Have you ever seen a defendant-turned-witness-for-the-prosecution who
wasn't a scum bag? In a criminal conspiracy case, the testimony of
Mother Teresa is not likely to be enlightening.
Eleanor Rotthoff
Eleanor Rotthoff
"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the
to the federal government are few and defined. Those which
are to remain in the State governments are numerous and
indefinite."
James Madison, The Federalist No. 45.
Patrick J. McGuinness
In article <3182168b...@news.io.com> erot...@io.com writes:
>tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>>close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
>>>Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
>>>Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
>>>friends.
>>>
>>>Tim Watson
>>>
>>
>>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>
>Have you ever seen a defendant-turned-witness-for-the-prosecution who
>wasn't a scum bag? In a criminal conspiracy case, the testimony of
>Mother Teresa is not likely to be enlightening.
Very good point.
It's as if a bag-man for a bank heist turns in his fellow
robbers, and was impeached on the stand by the defense attorneys:
"You can't trust this man; why, he's the bag man for
a bank heist."
Unfortunately for the defense in the Whitewater case, there are
documents that corroborate that there was a diversion of funds.
If Hale is such a bad guy, why were they doing business together,
and what did that business consist of?
Hale, is a "scum bag", he says. Well, maybe. He was also a Clinton appointee,
a campaign manager for Tucker, a business associate of McDougal,
... and the bag-man for the Arkansas "political family".
Pat
--
Observe -> Understand -> Direct -> Act
^_______________________________/
Tim Watson
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>
>>>Dan Thornsberry (tbe...@computek.net) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
>>>
>>>Hale the clinton appointed judge.
>>>
>>
>>
>>close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
>>Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
>>Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
>>friends.
>>
>>
>>
>>Tim Watson
>>
>
>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>
I think you missed the point. If Hale is a scumbag, he is just one of a
great many scumbags with whom your man Slick has spent most of his
lifetime sleeping. That's got to enter into a rational person's
judgement of Slick Willie, probably negatively, unless you just happen to
like scumbags. And how the hell am I to know? - you probably do.
Does that help?
Tim Watson
Dan Thornsberry
In article <4m3f59$v...@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, p...@anegada.sps.mot.com says...
>>>In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>>>close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
>>>>Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
>>>>Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
>>>>friends.
>>>>
>>>>Tim Watson
>>>>
>>>
>>>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>>
>>wasn't a scum bag? In a criminal conspiracy case, the testimony of
>>Mother Teresa is not likely to be enlightening.
>
you at least make a cursory investigation into the
reliability of the witness. No prosecutor worth a crap
would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
Unless of course, you are only after a few headlines
and political points. If you don't really give a shit
about the outcome of the trial, and you are a partisan
asshole (Starr) then you might rely on a pathetic
witness like Hale. Starr is as bad a Hale.
>
>Very good point.
>
>It's as if a bag-man for a bank heist turns in his fellow
>robbers, and was impeached on the stand by the defense attorneys:
> "You can't trust this man; why, he's the bag man for
> a bank heist."
>
>Unfortunately for the defense in the Whitewater case, there are
>documents that corroborate that there was a diversion of funds.
>If Hale is such a bad guy, why were they doing business together,
>and what did that business consist of?
>
>Hale, is a "scum bag", he says. Well, maybe. He was also a Clinton appointee,
>a campaign manager for Tucker, a business associate of McDougal,
>... and the bag-man for the Arkansas "political family".
>
>Pat
>
>
>--
> Observe -> Understand -> Direct -> Act
> ^_______________________________/
--
Find the REAL quotes:
Wayne Mann
p...@anegada.sps.mot.com (Patrick J. McGuinness) wrote:
Oh - THOSE scandals...
A CONCISE GUIDE TO THE CLINTON SCANDALS
______Jean Lewis_________
/ \
/ Web Hubbell RTC criminal
/ / \ referrals
/ Arkansas \ \
The Clintons ___Whitewater__Indictments RTC/Treasury coverup
|\ \ \
| \___ Travelgate__ \___ David Hale's loan_
| | \ |
| ? \____ Billy Dale Trial |
|WH coverup & | Helen \ |
|_office search| Dickey \__Missing documents|
| \ | \ |
| \___Vince Foster's death______ Fiske coverup |
| \ |\ |
| \_Foreign trips | \___ Starr coverup |
The Ives | | |
case-Mena | Walsh coverup/9 quashed |_Park Police coverup|
connection | \ investigations | |
+--------->| \ The Ives case(A) |_Forged suicide note|
| | \ / |
| |___ Mena____ L.D. Brown allegations ___________|
| | | \
| | massive \__ Terry Reed Litigation Larry Nichols
| | media & \ / |
| +---<| congressnl.\__ Money Laundering ___ ADFA___(B) |
| | | coverup |
| | | |
| | |____ Troopergate ________Allegations of troopers |
| | | \ \ |
| Lasater |____ Paula Jones affair \________ Gennifer Flowers
| - ADFA | \ Sally Perdue
|connection| \ "Bimbo Eruptions"
| | |_____"The Body Count"___Kathy Ferguson ++ |
| | | | \ \ |
| | | | \__ Dennis Patrick \___Luther "Jerry" Parks +
| | | |(A) | |
+---------<| |__ The Ives Case | |
| | ++++++++ | |
| |_____Allegations of|cocaine use____
| | | \
+--->| (B)ADFA | \
| \ | \
| \_The Lasater connection___"Angel Fire"
| | |
|____ Diversion of bank funds to|campaign __
| personal and business use | |
| | |
|______Political favors for business favors_|_______
| \ \ | |
| \___The Tyson connection__ \_Flowerwood Farms |
| \ | \ \ |
| \___ Cattlegate_|_ HRC's shady busines deals
| \ | |\ |
| \__ Jim Blair | \__Rose Law Firm
| "Red" Bone | |
| | |
|____ HRC's medical stock windfall_| Vince Foster +
| | Web Hubbell
|____ HRC's Health Panel deceptions- Bernie Nussbaum
|
|____ WJC's draft dodging deceptions
|
|____ WJC's participation in foreign anti-U.S.
demonstrations during the Vietnam War
NOTE: "+" denotes a death, possibly related to "the body
count."
- Unknown source -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
THE MADISON S&L SCAM
+---->Ark. Securities Dept.
| (1) Sweetheart regulator
| appointed by Clinton
| | ^
plan to raise | |
capital to keep| (5) |
Madison open | financial favors
| | |
| lenient |
| oversight |
Hillary on | |
$2000/mo.<--+ | |
| | | (2)
McDougal---+ Clinton campaigns
Depositors-->Madison------>[Ark. pols, FOBs]----+--->default
^ S&L Whitewater, &c. |
| ^ |
| | belly up |
[$50 mil] | (3) |
| X non-payment |
| (4) | |
| | |
[USG]<<<<<<<<<+-------------------------------+
USG must
pay off
depositors
THE DETAILS:
(1) Jim McDougal put Hillary Clinton on a $2,000/mo. retainer to
represent Madison S&L. (He says he did it at Clinton's
request. Clinton denies this). Soon afterward, Gov. Clinton
appointed Beverly Bassett Schaffer, formerly McDougal's
lawyer, to lead the state agency in charge of overseeing
S&L's. According to McDougal, the appointment was made at his
request.
(2) Madison made a number of large loans to friends and
supporters of Clinton during the 1980's. Funds were also bled
off through a series of dummy companies into various Clinton
campaigns, Whitewater Development Corp. and other McDougal
investments.
(3) In 1989, after what looks like soft treatment from Schaffer,
Madison went belly-up, sticking American taxpayers with...
(4) $50-$60 million in bad loans many of them to politicians and
other favorites of McDougal (including several who were also
close to Clinton).
(5) In 1979, according to McDougal, the Clintons were to pay
$9,000 up front for their half of Whitewater. CNN has
reported that even that tiny amount apparently the Clintons'
portion of a down payment on the $203,000 Whitewater property
was paid by McDougal, via a personal loan to the Clintons
from one of his banks which they seem never to have repaid.
Other news reports contain suggestions from McDougal that he
may have taken care of other expenses on the Clintons'
behalf.
In December 1980, yet another bank then owned by McDougal,
Kingston Bank & Trust, loaned Hillary Clinton $30,000. She
used it to build a model house on a Whitewater lot. She then
sold the house on the lot (which Whitewater had deeded to her
for free), repurchased it in default, and finally resold both
for a gain, not counting expenses, of $20,000 and a reported
$1,640 net capital gain to her personally. Later, Susan P.
Thomases, a lawyer for the Clintons, said Mrs. Clinton's
$30,000 mortgage was solely a Whitewater corporate debt.
Vincent W. Foster, Jr. (Hillary's former law partner,
also amended the Clintons' tax returns to shift interest
payments on this same $30,000 loan to Whitewater.
Source: Lynn Chu, COMMENTARY magazine, March 1994
THE POINT: To put it bluntly, Clinton appears to have appointed a
"sweetheart" regulator who permitted his business partner,
McDougal,to loot an S&L to the benefit of the Clintons as well
as McDougal's friends and business associates. The taxpayers
picked up the $50 million tab.
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST
Governor (spouse)
Bill Clinton-----------Hillary Clinton
| \ / |
| \ / |
| Whitewater Development Corp. |
| (business partnership) |
| \ / |
| \ / (partner)
| \ / |
(1) | \ /(client) |
(appointment) +-> McDougal--------Rose Law Firm
| | Madison S&L (2) |
| | ^ |
| (former lawyer) | (legal services)
| | | (3) |
| |(regulation) |
| | | |
+--------> Beverly Bassett <-------+
Ark. Securities Dept.
(1) "Almost immediately after his inauguration in January 1985,
Gov. Clinton replaced his Securities Department Chief...with a
friend, Beverly Bassett [McDougal's former lawyer]."
(2) "The Rose Law Firm outlined a strategy to keep Madison going,
and even expand it. It was a unique plan to raise capital by
selling preferred stock in the failing operation...An assistant of
Hillary's worked on the case, and wrote Ms. Bassett at least two
letters on behalf of Madison Guaranty. One was quite optimistic -
for no reason - and noted that "the applicant anticipates that no
deficiency will exist in the near future."
(3) "Ms. Bassett quickly approved the plan, despite its basic
impracticality...It was a simple conflicted deal. The plan had been
agreed to by an official just appointed by the Governor, and pled
for by the law firm of which the Governor's wife was a partner. And
on behalf of a man who was the business colleague of both of them
in Whitewater."
-- Martin L. Gross
The Great Whitewater Fiasco
*****************************************************************
Events * Analysis * Forecasts * Commentary * Readers' Opinions
*****************************************************************
I N T E L L I G E N C E ::: Editor's Desk
B R I E F I N G Distribution: World
For Immediate Release
Copyright 1995 by Conservative Consensus, ISSN 1074-245X.
QUOTATION AND ELECTRONIC REDISTRIBUTION are permitted
for private, non-commercial use. V1XIX61
[Editor's Note: With 35 new subpoenas reportedly delivered by US
Marshals on December 15 to people and corporations involved in
events in and around Mena, Arkansas, we offer this analysis --
exactly as carried in Conservative Consensus 15 Jan. 1994. For a
complimentary trial subscription, email ji...@u.washington.edu
with "subscribe cc free" as the subject.]
Clueless
By Craige A. McMillan
A woman's lover is killed by a single gunshot from
his own antique pistol, just hours after visiting the lady's
husband. The husband's attorney learns of the man's death. He
visits the dead man's office and removes private papers, before
police can examine them. Days later, a "suicide" note appears,
explaining everything. But it is torn into tiny pieces and left
unsigned.
Plot enough to make America's mystery writers
salivate over their ham sandwiches, wear out their word-
processors, and tie up the nation's telephone lines as they
frantically re-dial their agents. But hardly a story to interest
the respectable, staid, unbiased, mainline press. Unless, of
course, the government happened to be in on the action up to its
elbows, the attorney in question was White House Counsel Bernard
Nussbaum, the dead man's employer, and the man and woman cast in
the leading roles were the President and the First Lady.
As in any great detective story or political
thriller, careful readers will find clues scattered by the author
as he trod down the path ahead of them, some designed to mislead
the unwary, others genuine. The plot thickens. Hints of sexual
intrigue are scattered about. Financial dealings aren't "just
right." Shady characters emerge from the couple's past.
The story is perfect -- save for one glaring flaw.
Lacking is the great detective who alone can solve the crime.
Where is Inspector Woodward, or Detective Sergeant Bernstein?
High drama requires a hero who fails not because of
circumstance, but because of some inner character flaw, and here
at last the press does come to our rescue. For the liberal
reporters and editors of America's mainline press do not want to
find out the truth, because they have swallowed the lie.
Bill Clinton is not the great liberal knight in
shining armor that he first appeared to be, and Dame Hillary is
not Jackie Kennedy, back from the 1960s to usher in the new age of
Camelot. Instead, we are left with the gratuitous sexual exploits
of a tarnished leader, and the empty hopes and dreams, eroded by
the sands of time and experience, of his willing accomplice and
wife.
In all likelihood, it is not passionate embers of a
smoldering love triangle that have undone our new heroes, but
something far more sinister.
It is the nature of power that it attracts
precisely those individuals who should never have it. Perhaps that
is why great religions and philosophers alike have admonished us,
"by their deeds shall ye know them." Let us take a close look,
then, at who would rebuild Camelot.
The accompanying organizational chart and timetable
[see end of article] have been compiled from published reports by
reliable newspapers.
Notice the positions of the participants, relative
to federal regulators, before and after the 1992 presidential
election.
Key, we believe, is the timing of Bill Clinton's
dismissal of all U.S. Attorneys, shortly after taking office, an
action which allowed Paula Casey, a Clinton appointed attorney, to
take over the Little Rock investigation.
Un-searched, to our knowledge, are personal
computers at the Arkansas Governor's mansion, the White House, and
the Justice Department. Hard drives in the right hands can yield
their secrets long after erasure.
"The essential suspicion," says the Wall Street
Journal, "is that in return for campaign contributions and other
financial favors, Governor Clinton used political influence to
keep a shaky savings and loan afloat while it was milked of money,
sticking taxpayers with the tab." Vince Foster knew the truth.
______________________
A Whitewater Timetable
______________________
1974
----
* Clinton and McDougal meet working for Sen. William Fullbright
1978
----
* Bill Clinton appointed Arkansas Attorney General
* Clinton and McDougal families start Whitewater Development
* ???? Hillary Clinton asks for full power of attorney over
Whitewater (to write checks, notes, deeds, agreements, etc.)
1979
----
* McDougal buys Madison Guaranty S&L with loan from Worthen Bank
1982
----
* Madison assets $6 million. Officers' & Directors' loans $0.5
million
1984
----
* State S&L regulator warns "The viability of (Madison) is
jeopardized through its current investment and lending practices
in real-estate development practices."
* Governor Clinton appoints a new state regulator
1985
----
* Madison assets $107 million. Officers' & Directors' loans $17
million
* Bank examiners determine Madison's profits are inflated, the
institution is insolvent, and the state securities commissioner
should close it down. No action taken.
* Hillary Clinton hired on $2,000 monthly retainer by Madison
* McDougal holds fund-raiser in Madison Guaranty lobby to retire
Clinton's 1984 campaign debt ($50,000 owed to Bill Clinton
personally, which he owed to another Arkansas bank)
* Several $3,000 donations were cashier checks from Madison
* One issued in name of Ken Peacock, son of Madison director.
Peacock has no knowledge of the check.
* Shortly after fund raiser, Madison receives approval from
Beverly Bassett Schaffer, Clinton's newly appointed financial
regulator, to sell stock. Mrs. Schaffer was previously a Madison
lawyer. The attorney representing Madison for the stock issue
was Hillary Clinton.
1986
----
* David Hale running largest Arkansas court system
* Hale head of Capital Management Services, Inc.
* Hale makes $300,000 SBA loan to Susan McDougal. The money was
never repaid.
* $110,000 of the SBA loan money invested in Whitewater
1989
----
* Rose Law Firm (Hillary, Vincent Foster, Webb Hubbell) switches
from representing Madison to Representing regulators, in a suit
against Frost & Co., Madison's accounting firm
* Rose firm failed to divulge conflict of interest to Feds
* Vince Foster solicited the business, worth $400,000
* The government sought $60 million in damages from Frost, but
settled out of court for $1 million.
1990
----
* McDougal acquitted in fraud trial
1993
----
* (est. date) Arkansas Governor Jim Guy Tucker Madison loan of
over $1 million reduced 50 percent
* (est. date) Seth Ward, father-in-law of current Associate
Attorney General Webster Hubbell, defaults on $587,793 Madison
loan
* Webb Hubbell becomes Associate Attorney General, under Janet
Reno
* David Hale offers to implicate Bill Clinton with $300,000
defaulted SBA loan taken through Capitol Management to a real-
estate firm owned by Susan McDougal. Investigators think some of
this money went into Whitewater Development.
* Paula Casey, a former Clinton associate appointed U.S. Attorney
to Little Rock (following dismissal of ALL U.S. Attorneys)
denies Hale plea-bargain
1993 (July 20)
----
* Federal magistrate signed search warrant authorizing raid on the
office of David Hale, for making improper government loans to
Whitewater Development.
* Vincent Foster death
* White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum removes a file containing
Whitewater documentation from Vincent Foster's office and turns
it over to David E. Kendall, the Clintons' personal attorney
1993 (Sept)
----
* David Hale indicted by federal grand jury on defrauding the
Small Business Administration
1993 (Nov)
----
* Justice Department takes over investigation, asking U.S.
Attorney Paula Casey to excuse herself because she had been
appointed by Clinton and Paula's husband, a former Clinton
appointee, is a state employee working for Gov. Tucker.
1993 (Dec)
----
* Troopergate reveals that Vincent Foster was Hillary Clinton's
lover. "I'm scared to death. I've never felt so alone in my
life," said trooper Roger Perry.
BILL CLINTON: 1993 vs 1992
----------------------------------------------------
---->| Vincent Foster Hillary Clinton | Webb Hubbell |<..
| | The White House | Justice Dep't | :
| ---------------------------------------------------- :
| :
(now) :1
1992 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION :9
(then) :9
| :2
| ------------------------ ---------------- :
| | Resolution Trust | Small | :E
| | Corporation | Business | :L
| | | Administration| :E
| ------------------------ ---------------- :C
| | | :T
| | | :I
| ------------ \|/ :O
| ------------ ------------------------|---------------- :N
-<| Bill <|> James <|> Susan | :
->| Clinton | McDougal | McDougal | :R
| ------------ ------------------------|---------------- :E
| /|\ /|\ ---- /|\ :S
| | | | | :U
| \|/ | \|/ \|/ :L
| ------------ ------------------------ ---------------- :T
| | Whitewater| Madison Guarantee S&L | Capital | :
| |Development| | Management | :
| | $110,000 | $40-60 million RTC | $300.000 SBA | :
| ------------ ------------------------ ---------------- :
| | :
| | $2,000/Month :
\|/ \|/ :
---------------------------------------------------------- :
| Vincent Foster Hillary Clinton Webb Hubbell |...
| Rose Law Firm |
----------------------------------------------------------
>In article <3182168b...@news.io.com> erot...@io.com writes:
>>tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>>In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>>>And longtime business and political associate, financial backer, and
>>>>close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
>>>>Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
>>>>Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
>>>>friends.
>>>>
>>>>Tim Watson
>>>>
>>>
>>>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>>
>>Have you ever seen a defendant-turned-witness-for-the-prosecution who
>>wasn't a scum bag? In a criminal conspiracy case, the testimony of
>>Mother Teresa is not likely to be enlightening.
>Very good point.
>It's as if a bag-man for a bank heist turns in his fellow
>robbers, and was impeached on the stand by the defense attorneys:
> "You can't trust this man; why, he's the bag man for
> a bank heist."
>Unfortunately for the defense in the Whitewater case, there are
>documents that corroborate that there was a diversion of funds.
>If Hale is such a bad guy, why were they doing business together,
>and what did that business consist of?
>Hale, is a "scum bag", he says. Well, maybe. He was also a Clinton appointee,
>a campaign manager for Tucker, a business associate of McDougal,
>... and the bag-man for the Arkansas "political family".
>Pat
>--
> Observe -> Understand -> Direct -> Act
> ^_______________________________/
\\/ayne //\ann
"A politician who commends himself as 'caring' and
'sensitive' because he wants to expand the government's
charitable programs is merely saying that he's willing
to do good with other peoples' money." - PJ O'Rourke
Wayne Mann
Tim Watson <tim...@cei.net> wrote:
Font: Courier 10 cpi
THE CASTLE GRANDE SCAM
(Rev 1)
THE PROBLEM: How to circumvent regulations that prevent Madison S&L
purchasing the Castle Grande property.
Jim McDougal $1.75 m
Madison --------------------> Castle Grande
S&L |
^ |
| The amt. of |
| ____ land an S&L |
| / /\ can buy is |
+--------/ / \<---------------+
\ / / limited by
\/___/ regulations.
THE SOLUTION:
Madison gradually purchased the parcels of land,
circumventing regulations that limited the amount
of land it could invest in directly.
+------------------------------------+
| |
| (1) |
\|/ $1.15m |
+------- Madison---------------->Seth Ward<----|----+
| | S&L loan | | |
$2000/mo | | (2) | | |
retainer | | joint $1.15m | |
| | | purchase | | |
| | | $0.6m \|/ | |
| McDougal----------------->Castle Grande | |
| | | | |
| (5) +->(|) (4) | | |
| | | $0.4m \|/ | |
| | +------------------>22 acre------+ |
| | (3)(purchase price parcel |
| | + 10 % commission) |
| | (8) |
+---->Hillary Structured the
+-->Clinton ---->? (7) deal for his
| | father-in-law?
| | |
| Rose Law -----------Web Hubbell---------------+
| Firm
| +-----> Hillary's billing records---> White House
| |
| (6) written (9) \|/
+------------------ RTC Senate Whitewater
questions Committee
THE DETAILS:
(1) Madison S&L loaned $1.15 million to Seth Ward, the father-in-
law of Webster Hubbell.
(2) Ward used the money to purchase the Castle Grande property
jointly with James McDougal who paid $400,000 for his share.
(3) Madison proposed to buy the property back from Ward piecemeal,
paying him a 10% commission.
(4) Madison arranged to pay Ward $400,000 for a 22-acre parcel of
the Castle Grande property, a 1,050-acre mixed commercial
and residential real estate development project south of
Little Rock.
(5) According to The Washington Post (1/3/96) lawyers from the
Rose Law Firm have told the RTC that a word processing code
indicates that Hillary Clinton prepared a document arranging
for Madison to pay Ward for the parcel of land.
(6) On Dec. 21 the RTC sent written questions to Hillary Clinton
regarding the Castle Grande project whose failure cost
taxpayers $3.8 million after they learned that she had
prepared legal documents for Mr. McDougal of Madison S&L.
(7) Hillary has said that she does not remember preparing any
documents on the project. An RTC report noted that "this may
signify little, as she apparently has forgotten her work
supervising the legal research pertaining to the Castle Grande
liquor and sewer issues, as to which there is ample
documentary evidence." This refers to efforts to get a sewer
system and a brewery approved for the site.
(8) The RTC report said that Hubbell helped structure the deal for
his father-in-law, Seth Ward. Whitewater committee
investigators have said the loan was structured so Ward would
not have to repay the money if the land deal went bad.
(9) According to the Washington Post, January 7, 1996:
"Rose Law Firm billing records, belatedly discovered in
the White House residence Thursday, contain information
that may contradict a sworn statement first lady Hillary
Rodham Clinton gave federal savings and loan investigators
last year.
Copies of computerized bills to Madison Guaranty Savings &
Loan show that Hillary Clinton had 14 meetings or
conversations with a Madison executive about the Castle
Grande real estate project that is the focus of civil and
criminal investigations. But in a written statement to the
Resolution Trust Corp., Clinton said she did not believe
she knew anything about the project."
THE POINT: Seth Ward has been described as a "straw purchaser" for
Madison S&L by RTC investigators and federal bank examiners who
call his $1.15 million loan a "sham transaction to enable the S&L
headed by James McDougal, the Clinton's Whitewater partner, to
circumvent regulations limiting the amount of land it could invest
in directly."
According to the Washington Times, "The RTC...wants to know if Mrs.
Clinton knew or she should have known the transaction was a
sham...[Webster Hubbell] said the Rose Firm's billings would
reflect her legal work. Those billing records have since
disappeared," but copies were "found" in HRC's White House quarters
on January 4.
Sources: The Washington Post, January 3, 1996.
The Associated Press, January 3, 1996.
The Washington Times, January 4, 1996.
Thw Washington Post, January 7, 1996.
THE TUCKER SEWER & WATER SERVICES TO CASTLE GRANDE
Jim McDougal (2)
(indicted) developed & financed
Madison----------------------------------------+
S&L -------+ |
(6) | | (3) ___________ |
____|____ | | | |
| | $860,000 ---| DEFAULTED | |
| FAILED | loan |___________| |
|_________| | |
cost to us: | |
$50m + | (1) \|/
\|/ water & sewer Castle Grande
Jim Guy Tucker --------------------> mobile-home
(indicted) services park
/|\ |
| ___________ |
$300,000 | | |
loan -----| DEFAULTED | |
Capital | |___________| |
Management----+ (4) (5) |
Services |
David Hale _____|_____
(pleaded guilty) | |
| (7) | FAILED |
____|____ |___________|
| | cost to us:
| FAILED | $3.8m
|_________|
cost to us:
$3.4m
THE DETAILS:
(1) In 1986, Jim Guy Tucker, the present Governor of Arkansas,
made a proposal to provide water and sewer services to Castle
Grande, a mobile-home park in Little Rock.
(2) Castle Grande was being developed and Financed by Madison S&L.
(3) Madison S&L loaned Tucker $860,000 which he defaulted on when
Castle Grande failed.
(4) David Hale's Capital-Management Services loaned Tucker
$300,000 which he also defaulted on.
(5) Castle Grande failed at a cost of $3.8 million to the
taxpayers.
(6) Madison S&L failed at a cost of more than $50 million to the
taxpayers.
(7) Capital Management Services failed at a cost of $3.4 million
to the taxpayers.
THE POINT:
Once more we have an example of Jim McDougal's Madison S&L and
David Hale's CMS (the "Piggy Bank for the Political Elite of
Arkansas") flouting regulations to make shady loans to Arkie
politicians and their relatives. When the deal goes belly-up, the
fat cats default on the loans and simply walk away from the mess.
The government then pays off the depositors, and we're ready for
the next round. It seems these guys have found a way to play
Monopoly with our money. All they lack is a "get out of jail free"
card.
>tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>>
>>>dog...@io.com (dogboy) wrote:
>>>>Dan Thornsberry (tbe...@computek.net) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
>>>>
>>>>Hale the clinton appointed judge.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>And longtime business and political associate, financial backer, and
>>>close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
>>>Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
>>>Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
>>>friends.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Tim Watson
>>>
>>
>>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>>
>I think you missed the point. If Hale is a scumbag, he is just one of a
>great many scumbags with whom your man Slick has spent most of his
>lifetime sleeping. That's got to enter into a rational person's
>judgement of Slick Willie, probably negatively, unless you just happen to
>like scumbags. And how the hell am I to know? - you probably do.
>Does that help?
>Tim Watson
Dan Thornsberry
In article <4m3hq4$j...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>
>tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>>
>>>dog...@io.com (dogboy) wrote:
>>>>Dan Thornsberry (tbe...@computek.net) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
>>>>
>>>>Hale the clinton appointed judge.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>And longtime business and political associate, financial backer, and
>>>close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
>>>Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
>>>Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
>>>friends.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Tim Watson
>>>
>>
>>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>>
>
>
>I think you missed the point. If Hale is a scumbag, he is just one of a
>great many scumbags with whom your man Slick has spent most of his
>lifetime sleeping. That's got to enter into a rational person's
>judgement of Slick Willie, probably negatively, unless you just happen to
>like scumbags. And how the hell am I to know? - you probably do.
>
>
>
>Does that help?
>
>
to comit perjury. You are now trying to justify the use of a
pathalogical liar as the starr witness.
New definitions are now in order:
star witness - a witness very likely to assist the side which
produces said witness.
starr witness - a witness which has been paid to lie on the
stand.
>
>
>Tim Watson
Wayne Mann
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
TESTIMONY OF LLOYD N. CUTLER
Before the
U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on Banking, Finance and Urban Affairs
=
July 26, 1994
=
=
=
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee,
=
My name is Lloyd Cutler. Since March 10, I have been Special
Counsel to the President. Since the beginning of April, when Mr.
Bernard Nussbaum's resignation became effective, I have been
performing the duties of Counsel to the President. I had
previously held this position under President Carter, and in 1989
I was a member of President Bush's Commission on Federal Ethics
Law Reform.
<Snippity Snip>
=
With your permission, Mr. Chairman, let me add a word about
Mr. Fiske's report on Mr. Vincent Foster's death. Mr. Foster was
a childhood friend of the President and admired by numerous
members of the White House staff. Although I knew him only
slightly, I am told he was hard-working, deeply intelligent, a
good colleague, and a treasured member of the White House
"family." To the people who knew him, his death was unexpected
and devastating. On the day he died, a curtain of sadness
descended upon the White House.
=
On June 30, 1994, Mr. Fiske published a thorough and
voluminous report of his findings concerning Mr. Foster's death.
I believe that report proves beyond reasonable doubt that Mr.
Foster's death was indeed a suicide that occurred in Fort Marcy
Park, as originally reported by the Park Police. According to Mr.
Fiske, "the evidence overwhelmingly supports this conclusion, and
there is no evidence to the contrary."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
=
Mr. Fiske's report also stated that his team "found no
evidence that issues involving Whitewater, Madison Guaranty, CMS
or other personal legal matters of the President or Mrs. Clinton
were a factor in Foster's suicide." Since these
Whitewater/Madison Guaranty matters are the main reason for this
Committee's hearings, and Mr. Foster's death has been found to be
unrelated to these matters, we hope that all members of the
Committee will accept Mr. Fiske's report without chasing down
every new question that conspiracy theorists will always raise
about the violent death of any prominent person.
=
Even The Wall Street Journal's editorial page -- one of Mr.
Foster's most persistent critics -- has accepted the findings of
the Fiske Report. After a year of lurid, personally invasive and
totally unsubstantiated speculations, surely it is time for decent
people to leave Mr. Foster's bereaved family in peace.
=
I had hoped this thorough report would put to rest the wild
rumors that Mr. Foster was murdered or committed suicide at
another location, and that his dead body was then moved to Fort
Marcy, as well as all the other innuendos and speculations that
have been
circulated by mere gossips, by irresponsible journalists, and by
persons who would harm the President and torment Mr. Foster's
family to advance their political goals. It, unfortunately, has
not.
=
So, I would ask those rumormongers to heed the words of Vince
Foster's family. In a statement they released seven days ago, the
Foster Family wrote: "We love Vince and miss him terribly. He
was an honorable man and deserves to be treated with respect. On
this anniversary of his death, our fervent hope is that this
matter now will recede from public view and that the family will
be left alone to deal with its loss in private." That is their
wish. Let it be ours, as well.
=
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee.
=
>In article <4m3f59$v...@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, p...@anegada.sps.mot.com says...
>>
>>In article <3182168b...@news.io.com> erot...@io.com writes:
>>>tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>>>In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>>>>And longtime business and political associate, financial backer, and
>>>>>close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
>>>>>Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
>>>>>Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
>>>>>friends.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tim Watson
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>>>
>>>Have you ever seen a defendant-turned-witness-for-the-prosecution who
>>>wasn't a scum bag? In a criminal conspiracy case, the testimony of
>>>Mother Teresa is not likely to be enlightening.
>>
>Typically when you offer a reduced sentence for testimony,
>you at least make a cursory investigation into the
>reliability of the witness. No prosecutor worth a crap
>would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
>because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
>Unless of course, you are only after a few headlines
>and political points. If you don't really give a shit
>about the outcome of the trial, and you are a partisan
>asshole (Starr) then you might rely on a pathetic
>witness like Hale. Starr is as bad a Hale.
>>
>>Very good point.
>>
>>It's as if a bag-man for a bank heist turns in his fellow
>>robbers, and was impeached on the stand by the defense attorneys:
>> "You can't trust this man; why, he's the bag man for
>> a bank heist."
>>
>>Unfortunately for the defense in the Whitewater case, there are
>>documents that corroborate that there was a diversion of funds.
>>If Hale is such a bad guy, why were they doing business together,
>>and what did that business consist of?
>>
>>Hale, is a "scum bag", he says. Well, maybe. He was also a Clinton appointee,
>>a campaign manager for Tucker, a business associate of McDougal,
>>... and the bag-man for the Arkansas "political family".
>>
>>Pat
>>
>>
>>--
>> Observe -> Understand -> Direct -> Act
>> ^_______________________________/
>--
\\/ayne //\ann
John Q. Public
Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>
> No prosecutor worth a crap
> would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
> because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
>
Is *that* why the POTUS and FLOTUS haven't been indicted yet?
I guess it's OK for the *defense* to put chronic and pathological
liars on the stand, since that's what Susan McDougal's
lawyer did this past Sunday.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Prediction of the decade: "The public will never believe the
innocence of the Clintons & their loyal staff." -- author unknown
Dan Thornsberry
In article <31860D...@globaldialog.com>, j...@globaldialog.com says...
>
>Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>>
>> No prosecutor worth a crap
>> would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
>> because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
>>
>
>Is *that* why the POTUS and FLOTUS haven't been indicted yet?
>
>I guess it's OK for the *defense* to put chronic and pathological
>liars on the stand, since that's what Susan McDougal's
>lawyer did this past Sunday.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Prediction of the decade: "The public will never believe the
>innocence of the Clintons & their loyal staff." -- author unknown
--
Mike Jones
In article <4lrjsg$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
mart...@aol.com (MartinMcP) wrote:
>Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>
>[SNIP]
>
>Find the REAL quotes:
>"I smoke Bill's flesh cigar, sure I do" Danny T.
>"I'm a sad little pussy" - Dan Thornsberry
>"I'm pretty lame sonny" - T'Berculosis
>"I hate!" - The Old Thornsberry
>"I hate with prejudice!" - The New Thornsberry
>"I am the Democrat of the Future" - D. Thornsberry
>"I am insane, I am violent, I am racist" - Dan Thornsberry
>"I might be only a senile fool with a credit card and an
> internet account but I can still hate" - D.T.
>"Mommie, did Mr. Begala come by with the fudge?" -Thornsberry
>"I might not be good enough for the Post Office, but I'm
> still good enough for Bill Clinton" - Dan T'Berry
>"The guvermint spent 8G's a year on my edjication" - T'Berry
>"Come here little girl, I have a little something for you" - Dan
"Come here little doggy, I have a little something for you" - Danny T-berry
"Come here grandma, I have a little something for you" - Dan T.
>"I am gay, too" - Danny Thornsberry
>"I am personally responsible for destroying my own reputation."
> - Dan Thornsberry
>"OK Mom, If you see anyone coming, lift me off the potty" - DT
>"Is the hash in the envelope?" - Dan T.
>"Yes sir, Mr. Howdy" - Danny
>"Are you looking for a date, Big Boy" - Danielle
"When you are an idiot, facts don't matter and I have never allowed facts to
effect my opinions" - Dan
"Show me any ol' fat-boy and I'll show you how to make him scream like a
little piggy" T-berry
David Wagner
In article <4lrgtu$a...@canton.charm.net>, tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) says:
>
[deleted to conserve bandwidth]
Below, quoted DIRECT from Dan's sig is PROOF that he is the single biggest waste
of Oxygen on the planet... point for point:
>
>"America, love it or leave it" - The Old Right
>"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
>"I am the GOP" - Timothy McVeigh
#1. "Dan T-berry IS the Democrats"
>"Send us your insane, your violent, your racist" - Statue of Montana
#2. Dan, there's an awful lot of people in Montana to be so simply categorized
by you.... over-simplification - hallmark of a racist, and an idiot
>"Give any senile old fool a credit card and he can
> give you the illusion of prosperity" - Ronald Reagan
#3. "give any welfare recipient to suck off the government tit AND vote for
those who GIVE them the milk - and they will vote for you forever" - Democratic
Party Manifest since FDR...
>"Mommie, did the astrologer OK the press conference?" R. Reagan
>"I might not be good enough for the US, but I'm
> still good enough for Texas" - Phil Gramm
#4. Ditto re: comment on Montana... Dan, have you forgotten there's a LOT
of your precious Democrats in Texas??? you're pissing off your "constituency here", dude!
>"The guvermint spens two much on edjication" - The GOP
#5 "and doesn't get anything for it EXCEPT for people who can't spell/read/write/think...
only be VICTIMS - to preserve their government "tit/milk" (see also #3 above).
>"Come here little girl, I have something for you" - D. Koresh
#6 "Hey Gennifer, your P***y tastes good - Bill Cli(n)ton
>"I am the NRA" - Timothy McVeigh
See #1 above
>"I am personally responsible for beginning 80% of
> all conversations in the US." - Rush limbaugh
#7. "Except for when Teddy K is screwing, drinking, or killing someone!"
>"OK son, If you see anyone coming, blast away" - R. Weaver
#8. "It's OK son, if you kill anyone while drunk, I'll buy out the family" - Teddy
K's father/family...
>"Is the cash in the envelope?" - Newt Gingrich
#9. All $1 of it... as opposed to Jim Wright...
>"Yes sir, Mr. Gambino" - Alfonse D'Amato
#10. Yes sir, Mr. Stevens, Mr. Tyson, Mr. Trial Lawyer..." - Bill Clinton
>"Yes sir, Mr. D'Amato" - Kenneth Starr
#11. Whazza matta there Dan, the fingerprints making your story harder
to hold to? Getting scared....? Crow doesn't taste good, does it!
>"When your fans are idiots, facts don't matter" - Rush Limbaugh
#12 "When you feed the idiots for their votes, it doesn't matter that
they ARE idiots, in fact it helps - 'cause then you OWN em! - Democratic Manifesto
>"Elect me because I'm too old to try later" - Bob Dole
#13 "Elect me because after I CAUSE you Pain, I FEEL it for you!" - Bill Clinton
>"Yassuh Boss" - Clarence Thomas
This one's over the top:
#14. A more clear statement of an individuals fundamental to the core racism
I have never seen. You "sir" are a RACIST. Forget your other idiocies and
demonstrations of ignorance... they pale in contrast to this one.
>============================================================
>| | The GOP wants more guns |
>| Dan Thornsberry | |
>|tbe...@computek.net | and less education!!! |
>| | |
>============================================================
>The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty;
>but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong,
>means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the
And what could be MORE exploitative of the weak than to ensure that
their public education doesn't educate them, the only way they can
get food/clothing/shelter is through YOUR power, and that you create
a value system where victimhood is rewarded and individual capabilities
are punished... ensuring your continued grasp on power...
The Typical Democrat.
Dan, I feel truly sorry for you... it's one thing to argue points with people,
it's quite another to be blind to facts, dogmatic in clinging to one's
position, and most especially to be a racist... I truly hope you get
educated before someone get's so pissed off they are violent with you.
As for me, pity cannot extend low enough...
Standard Disclaimer - my perspectives do not represent my employer, etc...
>
John Q. Public
Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>
> >
> Hale has been hired by Starr to perjure himself.
Not according to Democrats who work for Starr.
You must be listening to more of that pathetic White House
spin.
JadeGold
On Apr 29, 1996 23:02:28 in article <Re: !STARR WARS- HALE Admits
Perjury!!!>, 'Tim Watson <tim...@cei.net>' wrote:
>I think you missed the point. If Hale is a scumbag, he is just one of a
>great many scumbags with whom your man Slick has spent most of his
>lifetime sleeping. That's got to enter into a rational person's
>judgement of Slick Willie, probably negatively, unless you just happen to
>like scumbags. And how the hell am I to know? - you probably do.
>
>
>
>Does that help?
>
>
Timmy, need we mention Wayne Andreas of ADM who attempted to illegally
corner the sugar market? Or David Owens who served 2 years in prison? All
real good buddies of Bob Dole.
Daryl King
In article <4lrgtu$a...@canton.charm.net>,
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>
>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>
>
It doesn't. It just shows that niether party has a monopoly on scumbags...
Clinton: A man of Change. (He's changed positions on issues so often you don't
know or trust where he stands)
Daryl King
In article <4m447c$o...@canton.charm.net>,
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>I think you missed the point. If Hale is a scumbag, he is just one of a
>>great many scumbags with whom your man Slick has spent most of his
>>lifetime sleeping. That's got to enter into a rational person's
>>judgement of Slick Willie, probably negatively, unless you just happen to
>>like scumbags. And how the hell am I to know? - you probably do.
>>
>>
>>
>>Does that help?
>>
>>
>So, at least you are no longer denying that Starr has hired Hale
>to comit perjury.
Learn to read dan, there was nothing in the aboove statement that sugessted
that hale was hired with the intent to commit perjury.
That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests that
Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise taxes,
etc..
Wayne Mann
mdj...@metronet.com (Mike Jones) wrote:
D'Amato ups Whitewater ante
BY MICHAEL HEDGES Scripps Howard News Service
WASHINGTON -- The Senate Whitewater committee moved closer to open
confrontation with the White House Friday, as Sen. Alfonse D'Amato
issued
subpoenas for two Clinton insiders. D'Amato, R-N.Y., said he still had
no
plans to call Hillary Rodham Clinton to testify before the Committee,
but
said a ``pattern'' had developed which ``points down more roads at
Mrs.
Clinton.'' The committee voted 10-8 along party lines to subpoena the
notes
of former White House lawyer William Kennedy taken during a Nov. 5,
1993
meeting with newly hired Clinton private attorney David Kendall.
Kennedy has
asserted lawyer-client privilege in refusing to answer questions about
the
meeting. Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., alluded to the Nixon era in
which
``another administration ... tried this 20 years ago'' and said, ``If
the
administration has nothing to hide, they should open this up.''
Democrats
led by Sen. Chris Dodd, of Connecticut, counseled that forcing a
confrontation with the White House over the issue was heading down ``a
bad
track.'' Dodd conceded the White House position created the ``patina''
of
hiding something, but said the principle of a president having the
right to
private legal counsel was an important one. The meeting in question
occurred
as interest in Whitewater increased and President Clinton hired David
Kendall, a Washington attorney, to handle it for him. The White House
said
Kendall, four White House lawyers and two attorneys who had previously
represented Clinton met on Nov. 5, 1993 to ``bring Kendall up to
speed.''
Republicans challenge the White House claim that the four
administration
attorneys, none of whom reported directly to President Clinton before
or
after the meeting and none of whom was acting as the president's
private
attorney, all had ``lawyer-client privilege.'' ``There was no oral or
written communication (between the attorneys and Clinton) on which to
base a
privilege,'' said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah. Republicans say forcing
Kennedy
to release his notes of the meeting is crucial to understanding
whether the
White House planned to improperly gather information about, and then
thwart,
Whitewater investigations. ``It is becoming obvious what we are
dealing with
is a White house cover-up,'' said Sen. Lauch Faircloth, R-N.C. D'Amato
said
he would also subpoena Susan Thomases, a friend and adviser to Hillary
Clinton, to testify for a third time. That subpoena was prompted by
the
revelation the committee had received new information about calls made
by
Thomases to Mrs. Clinton and others in the days surrounding the death
of
White House deputy counsel Vincent Foster. The committee first sought
Thomases' phone records in July. But earlier this week it received
word that
her law firm had uncovered records which showed previously undisclosed
calls
to Mrs. Clinton in the days after Foster's death. Republicans are
seeking to
prove Mrs. Clinton, with the help of Thomases and her chief of staff
Margaret Williams, tried to impede investigators from finding out what
Foster was working on at the time of his death on July 20, 1993. It
has
since been revealed Foster was working on Whitewater and a White House
scandal involving the firing of seven workers in the travel office. On
another front, D'Amato called ``incredulous'' and ``not believable'' a
White
House response to inquiries about a mystery phone number Mrs. Clinton
called
the night Foster died. That night Mrs. Clinton called from her
parents' home
in Little Rock a number that the phone company had been unable to
trace. A
ten-minute conversation was recorded on her parents' telephone bill.
Last
week the committee sent Mrs. Clinton questions about the calls, to be
answered under oath. She has so far refused to do so, but the White
House
did issue a letter late Thursday night saying the number was ``an
unlisted
trunk line that rang on the White House switchboard.'' White House
aide
William Burton ``remembers receiving a call ... from Mrs. Clinton on
the
evening of July 20 and speaking with her about Vincent Foster's
death,''
said White House special counsel Jane Sherburne.
Wayne Mann
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
Senate Whitewater Panel Approves Subpoena of
White House Notes
By PETE YOST
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Senate Whitewater Committee approved a
subpoena Friday for
notes of a crucial Whitewater meeting, and Republicans complained
that newly
unearthed phone records of a longtime confidante of Hillary Rodham
Clinton had been
withheld for months.
Meanwhile, Mrs. Clinton in written responses to committee questions
said that she
does not remember calling a particular number at the White House on
the night of
Vincent Foster's death. The call was made from the home of Mrs.
Clinton's mother in
Little Rock just minutes after three aides left Foster's White House
office.
The committee, by a 10-8 party-line vote, approved a subpoena for
handwritten notes
of former associate White House counsel William Kennedy that must
be turned over by
Tuesday. If they aren't, the Senate panel could take steps leading to
a
court fight with
the Clinton administration.
President Clinton and his wife are invoking attorney-client privilege
to protect the
confidentiality of the Nov. 5, 1993, Whitewater meeting of four White
House advisers
and the Clintons' personal attorney, David Kendall.
"The meeting ... was plainly privileged," Kendall said in a statement.
"It was limited to
past and present lawyers for the President and Mrs. Clinton and
lawyers from the
White House counsel's office, and it was held after six days of heavy
Whitewater
publicity."
Separately, committee chairman Alfonse D'Amato disclosed that New
York attorney
Susan Thomases - who was subpoenaed for a third Senate
Whitewater appearance,
next week - produced new phone records this week in the inquiry of
White House
handling of Foster's files.
The records show that before Foster's files were removed by
Margaret Williams, Mrs.
Clinton's chief of staff, Thomases twice called the residence where
Mrs. Clinton was
staying in Little Rock, Ark., and also called Williams. Foster, the
deputy White House
counsel, was found dead of a gunshot wound in park on July 20, 1993.
His death has
twice been ruled a suicide.
D'Amato complained that the records, first requested in the summer,
had been
"withheld" for "months and months and months."
An attorney looking through files for another purpose at Thomases'
law firm came
across the phone records this week, Thomases' lawyer said in a letter
to the
committee.
"The new phone records are consistent with her earlier testimony,"
said Thomases'
attorney, Benito Romano.
Senate Republicans are trying to determine whether Mrs. Clinton,
Thomases and
Williams arranged to keep police away from Foster's records, which
included
Whitewater documents and other financial papers of the Clintons.
The emerging picture "is wholly consistent with the inference that the
first lady was
highly interested in how the records were being handled," said
Michael Chertoff, the
attorney for committee Republicans.
On a related matter, Mrs. Clinton said in her affidavit for the
committee that she did
"not remember" if she called a particular White House switchboard
number the night of
Foster's death, but she said "it would not surprise me" if she had
done
so. The call
came from the Little Rock residence of her mother where the first
lady was staying.
Just before the call, three presidential aides - Nussbaum, Williams
and Patsy
Thomasson - were in Foster's office. All three deny taking anything.
>In article <4m3hq4$j...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>
>>tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>>In article <4lr2st$n...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>>>
>>>>dog...@io.com (dogboy) wrote:
>>>>>Dan Thornsberry (tbe...@computek.net) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hale, the GOP hired perjurer, has admitted to lying to
>>>>>
>>>>>Hale the clinton appointed judge.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And longtime business and political associate, financial backer, and
>>>>close personal friend. Just like Jim and Susan McDougal, Herby Branscum,
>>>>Robert Hill, David Watkins, Webster Hubbell, William Kennedy, Roger
>>>>Altman, and all the rest of the Clintons' indicted/convicted/disgraced
>>>>friends.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Tim Watson
>>>>
>>>
>>>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>>>
>>
>>
>>I think you missed the point. If Hale is a scumbag, he is just one of a
>>great many scumbags with whom your man Slick has spent most of his
>>lifetime sleeping. That's got to enter into a rational person's
>>judgement of Slick Willie, probably negatively, unless you just happen to
>>like scumbags. And how the hell am I to know? - you probably do.
>>
>>
>>
>>Does that help?
>>
>>
>So, at least you are no longer denying that Starr has hired Hale
>to comit perjury. You are now trying to justify the use of a
>pathalogical liar as the starr witness.
>New definitions are now in order:
>star witness - a witness very likely to assist the side which
>produces said witness.
>starr witness - a witness which has been paid to lie on the
>stand.
>>
>>
>>Tim Watson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>--
>Find the REAL quotes:
>"America, love it or leave it" - The Old Right
>"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
>"I am the GOP" - Timothy McVeigh
>"Send us your insane, your violent, your racist" - Statue of Montana
>"Give any senile old fool a credit card and he can
> give you the illusion of prosperity" - Ronald Reagan
>"Mommie, did the astrologer OK the press conference?" R. Reagan
>"I might not be good enough for the US, but I'm
> still good enough for Texas" - Phil Gramm
>"The guvermint spens two much on edjication" - The GOP
>"Come here little girl, I have something for you" - D. Koresh
>"I am the NRA" - Timothy McVeigh
>"I am personally responsible for beginning 80% of
> all conversations in the US." - Rush limbaugh
>"OK son, If you see anyone coming, blast away" - R. Weaver
>"Is the cash in the envelope?" - Newt Gingrich
>"Yes sir, Mr. Gambino" - Alfonse D'Amato
>"Yes sir, Mr. D'Amato" - Kenneth Starr
>"When your fans are idiots, facts don't matter" - Rush Limbaugh
>"Elect me because I'm too old to try later" - Bob Dole
>"Yassuh Boss" - Clarence Thomas
>============================================================
>| | The GOP wants more guns |
>| Dan Thornsberry | |
>|tbe...@computek.net | and less education!!! |
>| | |
>============================================================
>The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty;
>but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong,
>means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the
>weak. -Will Durant
Wayne Mann
"John Q. Public" <j...@globaldialog.com> wrote:
Clinton wants courts to decide Whitewater showdown
(c) 1995 Copyright Nando.net
(c) 1995 Reuter Information Service
<!-- Reuter Dec 10, 1995 - 12:11 -->
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (Dec 10, 1995 - 12:11 EST) - President
Bill Clinton said in remarks published on Sunday that he wanted
the courts to deal with a constitutional showdown over
Whitewater-related information demanded by the U.S. Senate.
In an interview with the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, Clinton
stood by his refusal to turn over the full notes of a 1993 meeting at
which his senior lawyers and aides discussed the Whitewater
matter, which involves his finances as governor of Arkansas.
Clinton said he retained the right to a privileged lawyer-client
relationship as does every other U.S. citizen under the constitution.
"In all the history of these inquiries, no one has ever asserted
before that the president should have no personal lawyer-client
relationship," he said. "And so that is the issue.
"And it seems to me that if that's going to be the rule, then
perhaps a judge ought to decide that and ought to determine what
the limits of it are," Clinton added.
Whitewater was a failed Arkansas real estate development in
which Clinton and his wife Hillary were participants. At issue
among other things is the alleged tie-in to the failure of a federally
insured thrift institution owned and operated by their partners in
the deal.
The meeting in question occurred on November 5, 1993, just as
two politically sensitive probes were heading to the White House.
On Friday, the Senate Whitewater Committee voted along party
lines to subpoena notes of the meeting that it believes may show
whether the White House tried to impede a criminal probe of the
Whitewater affair.
>Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>>
>> No prosecutor worth a crap
>> would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
>> because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
>>
>Is *that* why the POTUS and FLOTUS haven't been indicted yet?
>I guess it's OK for the *defense* to put chronic and pathological
>liars on the stand, since that's what Susan McDougal's
>lawyer did this past Sunday.
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Prediction of the decade: "The public will never believe the
>innocence of the Clintons & their loyal staff." -- author unknown
Wayne Mann
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
========
The Washington Times - December 8, 1995
SOUND ASLEEP WITH THE PRESS WATCHDOGS
By Wesley Pruden
If you get it, you won't get it.
Most of the lazy reporters in town read The Washington Post, and
this is so intellectually fatiguing that many of them are too
exhausted to read anything else. They miss most of what's going on
in their world.
Lloyd Grove, one of the Style scribblers in The Post's toy
department, complained in print yesterday that the Whitewater
hearings are so tedious that senators, spectators and even
witnesses are losing the struggle to stay awake. Why couldn't he be
assigned to cover something really relevant, like the collapse of
Michael Jackson?
Sara Fritz, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times, spends most of
her time in the press seats knitting a nice green afghan. Who needs
to take notes when you're struggling to ignore the most important
story in town? (To give Miss Fritz the benefit of the doubt, which
journalists expect as their due, she may be knitting the afghan for
Hillary Clinton, the patron saint of most of the ladies of the
press, just in case. Webb Hubbell could tell her about drafty
places.)
The president and the first lady and their batteries of lawyers and
regiments of public relations flacks have so far managed the
messengers if not the news, successfully encouraging most of them
to treat Whitewater either as (a) a bore or (b) a hoot and (c) a
giggle.
Like The Post, the New York Times puts the Whitewater story - which
it concedes may soon become a story of a historic constitutional
clash between the White House and Congress - so far back among the
ads for nose jobs and golf bags that only an editorial writer with
a sharp eye could find it.
Fortunately, the front pages of the Washington Times are readily
available to sharp-eyed editorialists of The Post and the New York
Times, and this week these editorialists have produced editorials
that go straight to the point of what is at stake in the "dull"
Whitewater hearings. While the front pages of their newspapers are
emblazoned with the campaign to get Newt, who is under
investigation for an offense that could result in a fine of $1,000,
the editorial pages seem to understand that the Clinton White House
may be manipulating the evidence, the law and the public in just
the way that the Nixon White House did it a quarter of a century
ago. The penalties for this sort of statecraft run to impeachment
and a stretch at Allenwood.
If the hooting "Washington journalists" were cops and came upon a
woman racing down a deserted street bleeding, naked and screaming
"Rape!" their first instinct would be to tip their hats to the
rapist and arrest the woman for jaywalking.
But the water's rising, and even inside the thick marble walls of
the White House almost anyone should be able to hear the roar: "The
hearings have also reaffirmed that Hillary Rodham Clinton's
associates seem incapable of producing candid answers to questions
about the events following the Foster suicide and the handling of
the Whitewater documents in his office," observes the New York
Times. "They served the committee a stew of evasions and memory
lapses that can only further undermine public confidence in the
administration's integrity."
The Post editorial page, which usually squeaks, yesterday bubbled:
"Since Mr. Foster's suicide, congressional committees and reporters
looking into the White House's handling of his papers have had a
very difficult time learning what key Clinton associates did after
hearing of Mr. Foster's death, with whom they talked, what
documents were removed from his office and to whom they were
given....
"Has the White House, through these twists, managed to throw
suspicion over matters of little consequence, or is something
serious being covered up? The question is everywhere these days, in
large part because of all the improbable and implausible responses
that have been made to inquiries so far. If the White House can
clear them up, it surely should."
Indeed, if the White House could, the White House would. The naive
among us, so innocent of Arkansas folk ways, have repeated the
yearning, as if a mantra, that if only the Clintons would tell
everything they know we could all put Whitewater behind us. The
Clintons, with more to lose than the rest of us, know better.
The squirmy evasions of Bruce Lindsey and William Kennedy,
desperate to follow instructions not to tell anything they know of
the White House sessions to plot the modified limited hangout, are
a haunting reprise of the testimony of John Dean and H.R. "Bob"
Haldeman.
Well, welcome to the story, guys. Mr. Nixon survived for a while on
the distractions of the war in Vietnam. So may bill and Hillary
with the distractions of a murderous peace in Bosnia.
But only for a little while.
>In article <31860D...@globaldialog.com>, j...@globaldialog.com says...
>>
>>Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>>>
>>> No prosecutor worth a crap
>>> would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
>>> because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
>>>
>>
>>Is *that* why the POTUS and FLOTUS haven't been indicted yet?
>>
>>I guess it's OK for the *defense* to put chronic and pathological
>>liars on the stand, since that's what Susan McDougal's
>>lawyer did this past Sunday.
>>
>Hale has been hired by Starr to perjure himself.
>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Prediction of the decade: "The public will never believe the
>>innocence of the Clintons & their loyal staff." -- author unknown
>--
\\/ayne //\ann
Dan Thornsberry
In article <4m67pq$p...@news1.sunbelt.net>, dk...@sunbelt.net says...
>>>great many scumbags with whom your man Slick has spent most of his
>>>lifetime sleeping. That's got to enter into a rational person's
>>>judgement of Slick Willie, probably negatively, unless you just happen to
>>>like scumbags. And how the hell am I to know? - you probably do.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Does that help?
>>>
>>>
>>So, at least you are no longer denying that Starr has hired Hale
>>to comit perjury.
>
>that hale was hired with the intent to commit perjury.
>
>That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests that
>Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise taxes,
>etc..
>
>
>
Starr is paying Hale (reduced sentence). No prosecutor would
use a person of Hales reliability for a serious witness.
Starr then, must be using Hale as a tool to score political
points. Hale is a scumbag. Starr is a scumbag for calling him
and for buying him.
Wayne Mann
dk...@sunbelt.net (Daryl King) wrote:
December 21, 1995
White House Agrees to Turn Over Whitewater Notes
By JOHN SOLOMON
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - Threatened with a certain court challenge,
the White House on Thursday agreed to surrender disputed
Whitewater notes to investigators and halt a dramatic
confrontation between Congress and President Clinton.
After days of negotiation, presidential lawyers reached a
previously elusive agreement with House Republicans that
cleared the way for releasing the notes voluntarily to both
lawmakers and prosecutors investigating Whitewater.
"We have reached a very satisfactory conclusion ... that was
much to the liking of both sides," White House counsel Jack
Quinn said after emerging from a meeting with Republicans.
Quinn said he still needed to discuss logistics with senators
who sought the notes, but added that the documents would be
turned over "in the next day or so" to anyone who wanted them.
Under the agreement, the president preserves the right to
claim in the future he is entitled to attorney-client privilege
in Whitewater. But Congress would not have to decide now
whether to accept that claim.
"Whatever merits Whitewater might have in general, it is
thoroughly unwarranted to have a constitutional confrontation"
over the documents, said House Banking Committee Chairman Jim
Leach, who negotiated the deal.
The White House's lengthy resistance to releasing the notes
had propelled the Whitewater affair back to front-page news and
prompted an extraordinary Senate vote Wednesday to take Clinton
to court. Senate lawyers were working Thursday to get the court
challenge ready for next week when the deal was struck.
Clinton ignited the dispute earlier this month when he cited
attorney-client privilege and refused to comply with a Senate
subpoena demanding an aide's notes from a 1993 meeting on
Whitewater. Criminal prosecutors investigating Whitewater also
demanded the documents.
Presidential aides painfully backpedaled from the privilege
claim in the face of politically damaging comparisons to the
Watergate scandal two decades earlier and unyielding Republican
senators insisting they had a legal right to see the notes.
In the end, Clinton insisted on a single condition: that all
entities investigating Whitewater agree that he still retains a
right to claim that other conversations with his lawyers could
be kept confidential.
By early this week, the Senate panel and prosecutors had
agreed to those terms.
But Leach, R-Iowa, and Rep. William Clinger, R-Pa., chairman
of the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee, refused
to accept the terms. Leach and Clinger are conducting separate
House investigations on Whitewater.
They expressed fears that entering such an agreement might
establish a precedent that could hinder their investigations in
the future. They said only Congress, not the president, should
decide whether a legal claim of privilege existed.
But the two sides continued to negotiate, and on Thursday they
agreed on technical, legal language of an agreement that both
sides said satisfies their concerns.
"Nothing in this implies they cannot assert or argue a given
set of rights," Leach explained.
Added Quinn: "No one has backed down from any of their
asserted rights. The president will maintain his right to a
confidential relationship with his attorneys."
The final agreement came just 24 hours after the Senate voted,
for the first time since Watergate, to challenge a president in
court for refusing to turn over documents.
Even as negotiations continued, Sen. Alfonse D'Amato, chairman
of the Senate Whitewater Committee, continued to apply
pressure, announcing on the Senate floor Thursday that Senate
lawyers were prepared to file their challenge in federal court
next Wednesday.
"The Senate will ask the courts to rule in an expeditious
fashion," D'Amato said. "We're not going to wait and delay and
then have a situation where negotiations might break down."
But the New York Republican also said he would halt any court
action once the notes became available.
At issue are 12 pages of handwritten notes taken by former
presidential aide William Kennedy during a Whitewater legal
defense meeting in 1993 between Clinton's private lawyers and
White House aides.
D'Amato's committee wants the notes to determine whether White
House aides improperly passed along confidential information
they obtained in 1993 to Clinton's private lawyers, or used it
to interfere with two Whitewater-related criminal
investigations.
Republicans said if the notes show some confidential
investigatory information was imparted to Clinton's lawyers,
it might contradict the sworn testimony last year of former
White House counsel Bernard Nussbaum and might give lawmakers
grounds for new action against the administration.
>In article <4lrgtu$a...@canton.charm.net>,
> tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>
>>And just how does this make Hale any less of a scum bag?
>>
>>
>It doesn't. It just shows that niether party has a monopoly on scumbags...
>Clinton: A man of Change. (He's changed positions on issues so often you don't
>know or trust where he stands)
\\/ayne //\ann
Jim Kennemur
On 30 Apr 1996 15:30:45 GMT, dwa...@flotsam.us.dg.com (David Wagner)
wrote:
>In article <4lrgtu$a...@canton.charm.net>, tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) says:
>>
>[deleted to conserve bandwidth]
>
>Below, quoted DIRECT from Dan's sig is PROOF that he is the single biggest waste
>of Oxygen on the planet... point for point:
>
>>
>>"America, love it or leave it" - The Old Right
>>"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
>>"I am the GOP" - Timothy McVeigh
>#1. "Dan T-berry IS the Democrats"
No but he is ONE of us. You know us David. The liberals! We're the
folks ripping you a new orifice every time you trot out your
conservative B.S.
>>"Send us your insane, your violent, your racist" - Statue of Montana
>#2. Dan, there's an awful lot of people in Montana to be so simply categorized
>by you.... over-simplification - hallmark of a racist, and an idiot
Again with the charges of racism? Since when is Montanan a RACE of
people?
>>"Give any senile old fool a credit card and he can
>> give you the illusion of prosperity" - Ronald Reagan
>#3. "give any welfare recipient to suck off the government tit AND vote for
>those who GIVE them the milk - and they will vote for you forever" - Democratic
>Party Manifest since FDR...
"Give us a capital gains tax cut or we tell the country about how we
own your ass." - The Rich Folks to the GOP
>>"Mommie, did the astrologer OK the press conference?" R. Reagan
>>"I might not be good enough for the US, but I'm
>> still good enough for Texas" - Phil Gramm
>#4. Ditto re: comment on Montana... Dan, have you forgotten there's a LOT
>of your precious Democrats in Texas??? you're pissing off your "constituency here", dude!
Wagner you ignorant slut! First of all, Philistine Phil Gramm is from
Georgia. Second of all, Texan is not a race of people.
>>"The guvermint spens two much on edjication" - The GOP
>#5 "and doesn't get anything for it EXCEPT for people who can't spell/read/write/think...
>only be VICTIMS - to preserve their government "tit/milk" (see also #3 above).
Public education is only hated by religious zealots and elitist
assholes. And you would be???
>>"Come here little girl, I have something for you" - D. Koresh
>#6 "Hey Gennifer, your P***y tastes good - Bill Cli(n)ton
"Don't bump your head on the steering wheel darling" - Newt to any
woman he can get into his car.
"I want Out" - Bob Dole to his first wife.
>>"I am the NRA" - Timothy McVeigh
"I want to be the Timothy McVeigh of Tasmania" - Martin Bryant
>>"I am personally responsible for beginning 80% of
>> all conversations in the US." - Rush limbaugh
>#7. "Except for when Teddy K is screwing, drinking, or killing someone!"
"Nice tits babe" - Bob Packwood
>>"OK son, If you see anyone coming, blast away" - R. Weaver
>#8. "It's OK son, if you kill anyone while drunk, I'll buy out the family" - Teddy
>K's father/family...
"Watch the day care center when I set this sucker off" - Tim Mcveigh
>>"Is the cash in the envelope?" - Newt Gingrich
>#9. All $1 of it... as opposed to Jim Wright...
"All of you will take this cash and write Mr. Dole a check" - Simon
Fireman, Dole National vice-chairman of finance.
>>"Yes sir, Mr. Gambino" - Alfonse D'Amato
>#10. Yes sir, Mr. Stevens, Mr. Tyson, Mr. Trial Lawyer..." - Bill Clinton
"Yassa Massa! I gwine Be Sleepin In da Big House Now" - Chris Morton
>>"Yes sir, Mr. D'Amato" - Kenneth Starr
>#11. Whazza matta there Dan, the fingerprints making your story harder
>to hold to? Getting scared....? Crow doesn't taste good, does it!
What crow you moron? Ms. Clinton's fingerprints are on billing records
she filled out? Do you wear rubber gloves when you do billing?
Besides. Those records actually back up the Clinton's contentions.
>>"When your fans are idiots, facts don't matter" - Rush Limbaugh
>#12 "When you feed the idiots for their votes, it doesn't matter that
>they ARE idiots, in fact it helps - 'cause then you OWN em! - Democratic Manifesto
"Fuck em'. They don't vote for us anyway" - Famous GOP slogan on
welfare reform.
>>"Elect me because I'm too old to try later" - Bob Dole
>#13 "Elect me because after I CAUSE you Pain, I FEEL it for you!" - Bill Clinton
"Vote Bob Dole. He's better than Phil Gramm." - any moderate
Republican
>>"Yassuh Boss" - Clarence Thomas
>
>This one's over the top:
How about " Is that a nice enough shine Justice Scalia" - Clarence
Thomas?
>#14. A more clear statement of an individuals fundamental to the core racism
>I have never seen. You "sir" are a RACIST. Forget your other idiocies and
>demonstrations of ignorance... they pale in contrast to this one.
Wagner. Do us all a favor and write Disprickio about the two of you
posting together so we can ignore both of you at once?
Jim
=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
disc...@crl.com (William R. Discipio Jr) wrote:
Yeah, I'm obsessed...Your BS just doesn't cut it, Gail.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Wayne Mann
dk...@sunbelt.net (Daryl King) wrote:
The Trouble With Mrs. Clinton
Editorial- Washington Times Jan. 10, 1996
Though the three congressmen most directly involved in the
investigations now honing in on Hillary Clinton, Sen.
Alfonse D'Amato, Rep. William Clinger and Rep. Jim Leach,
are stepping in a very cautious, very gentlemanly and very
lawyerly way around it, the plain fact is getting clearer
by the day: There's been a whole lotta lyin' goin' on in
the Clinton White House.
The latest cause of eyebrows rising and jaws dropping is the
Clintons' straight-faced claim that two highly damaging
documents that independent counsels and congressional
investigators have been requesting literally for years were
suddenly "discovered" within a day of each other among
papers held by two longtime trusted aides.
The first, a very revealing memo written about the Travel
Office mess by David Watkins, was "found" in Patsy
Thomasson's office Jan. 3 and released to the press at the
same time it was sent to Rep. Clinger's Government Reform
and Oversight Committee -- which has been requesting all
Travel Office related documents for two years. Mr. Watkins,
White House administrator at the time seven longstanding
Travel Office staffers were summarily fired in May, 1993,
took a large share of the public blame meted out by then-
Chief of Staff Thomas "Mack" McLarty, after revelations
that presidential pal and money-man Harry Thomason
instigated the firings to get business for his own aviation
firm and that then-Associate White House Counsel William H.
Kennedy III had browbeat high FBI officials into mounting
an investigation.
The Watkins memo makes it very clear that the entire
incident was directed by Hillary Clinton at the suggestion
of Mr. Thomason. Mr. Watkins stated plainly that both he
and Mr. McLarty knew "there would be hell to pay" if Mrs.
Clinton's insistence the seven be kicked out pronto-to be
replaced by "our people" were not met with immnediate
compliance.
This stands in direct contradiction to the first lady's
frequently repeated clairn, including in written responses
to a General Accounting Office inquiry into the matter, that
she was not involved in the decision to fire the staffers,
had not directed any action, and had no idea how or where
the decision originated. Mr. Watkins' memo reveals that
Hillary Clinton was the key player in this drama.
Uncomfortable as it is in terms of highlighting the first
lady's indifference to the suffering of the Travel Office
employees, her willingness to abuse the power of her
position to steer financial benefits to her friends, and
her apparent willingness to lie about having done so, the
Watkins memo is less damaging than the other docurnent that
miraculously surfaced last week after being "missing" for
two years.
That would be 116 pages of billing records covering Hillary
Clinton's work as a Rose Law Firm lawyer for Madison
Guaranty Savings and Loan Association, which was owned by
her partner in the Whitewater land deal, James B. McDougal.
Mr. McDougal, currently under indictment for fraud in
special prosecutor Kenneth Starr's Whitewater investigation,
has told the story of how he came to employ the Rose firm,
despite being strapped for cash and already represented by
another law firm. It seems then-Gov. Bill Clinton (also a
Whitewater partner, as was Mr. McDougal's then-wife and now
co-indictee, Susan McDougal) stopped by Mr. McDougal's
office one day, in mid-jog, to request he throw some
business Hillary's way, as they were having financial
difficulties. Next thing anyone knew, Rose had a new client,
and a new $2,000 monthly fee.
Mrs. Clinton and her husband have long denied that version
of things-though their own is fuzzy, to say the least. Mrs.
Clinton has claimed that a young associate, Richard Massey,
brought Madison to Rose as a client and did most of the
Madison-related work; she, the White House line had it,
oversaw his work, and her own involvement was "minimal." In
fact, "minimal" was precisely how Mrs. Clinton described the
level of her representation of Madison in at least one sworn
statement to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.
During Senate Whitewater Comrnittee hearings last month,
Hillary-friend, confidante and adviser Susan Thomases ended
up producing a document of her own, her notes detailing a
phone call with former Rose managing partner, former
Associate Attorney General, now federal inmate Webster
Hubbell, that raised some questions about this story. For
one thing, it contained the interesting formulation that,
according to Hubbell, Mr. Massey "will say" (emphasis added)
he brought Madison to the firrn. When it came to it,
actually, Mr. Massey said no such thing; he merely said he
could not remember how Madison came to be represented by
Rose.
Ms. Thomases' notes also suggested a larger role for Mrs.
Clinton in representing Madison, indicating she had many
meetings and did all the biUing. Both Ms. Thomases and
Hubbell, when asked to provide detailed information about
the actual amount of Mrs. Clinton's Madison work, suggested
the Rose firm's billing records were the only possible
source of accurate information. But, shucks, those records
had just vanished into thin air.
And then, late Friday, it was announced that copies of those
missing records (copies with notes on them in the
handwriting of the late Vincent Foster) had magically
materialized in the office of presidential aide Carolyn
Huber. They were "found" among personal papers, taken from
the White House residence, that Ms. Huber was cataloguing.
No one at the White House admits having any idea how they
got there. The one thing they're sure of, however, is that
Hillary Clinton's chief of staff, Margaret Williams, did not
spirit them out of Mr. Foster's office the night he killed
himself.
Considering what they reveal, it's not hard to understand
why their existence slipped Clintonian minds for so long.
For one thing, the records reveal at least one hour-long
phone conversation Mrs. Clinton had with former Arkansas
securities commissioner (and Bill Clinton appointee) Beverly
Bassett Schaffer. During the presidential campaign, Mrs.
Clinton blithely insisted she represented no one before
state regulators appointed by her husband when he was
governor. A letter she wrote Ms. Schaffer pushing a plan to
help Madison stay afloat gave that the lie; the newly
revealed phone call indicates that Hillary Clinton may
indeed have represented the financial institute owned by her
friend and business partner before a state regulator
appointed by her husband.
Moreover, those records show that Mrs. Clinton did some 60
hours of work for the S&L. She had about 50 meetings and
phone calls about Madison, including more tharl two dozen
meetings with James McDougal and other Madison executives,
as well as more than two dozen other meetings involving Mrs.
Clinton and lawyers at her firm regarding Madison. For that,
Mrs. Clinton earned $6,000-almost a third of Rose's $21,000
total billing to Madison. Hardly minimal, by any
interpretation of the word.
Perhaps as troubling as the contradiction of the first
lady's sworn testimony, the records reveal that one of the
things she worked on for Madison was Castle Grande. Castle
Grande was a land deal James McDougal cooked up with Webster
Hubbell's father-in-law, Arkansas tycoon Seth Ward. Federal
regulators have determined that the deal was basically a
phony transaction designed to get around laws limiting the
real estate investment permitted S&Ls. The billing records
reveal that Mrs. Clinton had a dozen conversations with Mr.
Ward between November 1985 and May 1986, and that on May
1, 1986, she drew up a land option document for Castle
Grande. The first lady is now answering questions in writing
about her Castle Grande involvement -- as well as her other
Madison work -- for federal banking regulators.
So it becomes ever clearer that the pattern of improper,
unethical and possibly illegal conduct improperly,
unethically, and probably illegally covered up has at its
center Hillary Clinton. The question now remaining is
whether the president is as much a part of the pattern as
his wife.
>In article <4m447c$o...@canton.charm.net>,
> tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>>I think you missed the point. If Hale is a scumbag, he is just one of a
>>>great many scumbags with whom your man Slick has spent most of his
>>>lifetime sleeping. That's got to enter into a rational person's
>>>judgement of Slick Willie, probably negatively, unless you just happen to
>>>like scumbags. And how the hell am I to know? - you probably do.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Does that help?
>>>
>>>
>>So, at least you are no longer denying that Starr has hired Hale
>>to comit perjury.
>Learn to read dan, there was nothing in the aboove statement that sugessted
>that hale was hired with the intent to commit perjury.
>That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests that
>Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise taxes,
>etc..
\\/ayne //\ann
Wayne Mann
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
Upstairs at the White House
By Michael Isikoff
Newsweek
Whitewater: A discovery in the family quarters raises more questions
It’s a room that’s definitely not on the White House tour. High on
the third floor of the family quarters, the "Book Room" is a cozy
hideaway, open to the First Family, staffers and the president’s
houseguests. Next door is a small office where Mrs. Clinton worked
much of last year writing her new book. Last August, a personal aide,
Carolyn Huber, was going to pick up some magazine clippings in the
Book Room when she noticed a stack of computer printouts that hadn’t
been there a few days earlier. She stuck them in a box, took them to
her office in the East Wing and forgot all about them. Then, earlier
this month, she was unpacking the carton - and gave a start when she
realized what they were. She immediately called Mrs. Clinton’s lawyer.
Then she called her own lawyer.
The documents Huber discovered had been under subpoena by various
investigators, including Congress and the Whitewater independent
counsel, for about two years. They were Mrs. Clinton’s legal billing
records for Madison Guaranty, the failed savings and loan owned by
the Clintons’ Whitewater partner, James McDougal. They detail what
official work Mrs. Clinton did for Madison. They are documents that
someone apparently wanted to disappear, and their tortuous history is
now the subject of an inquiry by the independent counsel, Kenneth
Starr. Last week, two days before she publicly told her story to the
Senate Whitewater committee, Huber testified before a grand jury in
Little Rock. Starr, Newsweek has learned, has subpoenaed Mrs.
Clinton’s valet and all White House entry logs to try to find out who
might have visited the Book Room last August - and why.
The trail of the missing documents begins at the Rose Law Firm in
February 1992 - just as the press first began asking about Whitewater.
The files were pulled by Vince Foster, then a partner in the firm
and Mrs. Clinton’s personal lawyer. His red-ink handwriting is all
over the copies of the records Huber found. But by the time the first
subpoenas arrived in January 1994, the papers had vanished. Huber -
once Rose’s office manager - recalls seeing lawyers from Williams &
Connolly, a firm now representing the First Family, methodically
searching the file cabinets in the residence to sweep up everything
under subpoena.
Where were the billing records during all of this? Republican
investigators suspect that, at least for a time, they were kept in
Foster’s West Wing office. The night the deputy White House counsel
killed himself in July 1993, a Secret Service agent testified that he
saw the First Lady’s chief of staff, Maggie Williams, carrying files
out of Foster’s office. Williams denies this but acknowledges that
Mrs. Clinton’s personal files were removed from Foster’s office a few
days later and stuck in a closet in the residence - next door to the
Book Room. Supposedly, the whole stack was then sent over to Mrs.
Clinton’s lawyer at Williams & Connolly. Somehow, though, two years
later, Huber came across the billing records in the Book Room. At
about the same time, Williams and Mrs. Clinton’s closest friend, New
York lawyer Susan Thomases, were testifying on the Hill - and were
having trouble recalling exactly how the documents from Foster’s
office were handled.
White House lawyers scoff at the notion that Starr could bring an
obstruction-of-justice charge against anyone in the White House. "I
am absolutely confident that this is one of those dry holes that will
be dug," Mrs. Clinton told CBS, denying that either she or the
president had anything to do with the records’ disappearance or
rediscovery. Starr will be examining the documents for fingerprints,
including the First Lady’s. But he may not be able to get a good
print. When Huber gave the documents to David Kendall, Mrs. Clinton’s
personal lawyer, he did not drop them in a plastic bag, as a
detective would. He had them shown to White House lawyers and ordered
Huber to make copies. By the time they got to the special prosecutor,
they were thoroughly smudged. Like so much else in Whitewater.
>In article <4m67pq$p...@news1.sunbelt.net>, dk...@sunbelt.net says...
>>
>>In article <4m447c$o...@canton.charm.net>,
>> tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>
>>>>I think you missed the point. If Hale is a scumbag, he is just one of a
>>>>great many scumbags with whom your man Slick has spent most of his
>>>>lifetime sleeping. That's got to enter into a rational person's
>>>>judgement of Slick Willie, probably negatively, unless you just happen to
>>>>like scumbags. And how the hell am I to know? - you probably do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Does that help?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>So, at least you are no longer denying that Starr has hired Hale
>>>to comit perjury.
>>
>>Learn to read dan, there was nothing in the aboove statement that sugessted
>>that hale was hired with the intent to commit perjury.
>>
>>That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests that
>>Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise taxes,
>>etc..
>>
>>
>>
>Starr is paying Hale (reduced sentence). No prosecutor would
>use a person of Hales reliability for a serious witness.
>Starr then, must be using Hale as a tool to score political
>points. Hale is a scumbag. Starr is a scumbag for calling him
>and for buying him.
>"America, love it or leave it" - The Old Right
>"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
>"I am the GOP" - Timothy McVeigh
>"Send us your insane, your violent, your racist" - Statue of Montana
>"Give any senile old fool a credit card and he can
> give you the illusion of prosperity" - Ronald Reagan
>"Mommie, did the astrologer OK the press conference?" R. Reagan
>"I might not be good enough for the US, but I'm
> still good enough for Texas" - Phil Gramm
>"The guvermint spens two much on edjication" - The GOP
>"Come here little girl, I have something for you" - D. Koresh
>"I am the NRA" - Timothy McVeigh
>"I am personally responsible for beginning 80% of
> all conversations in the US." - Rush limbaugh
>"OK son, If you see anyone coming, blast away" - R. Weaver
>"Is the cash in the envelope?" - Newt Gingrich
>"Yes sir, Mr. Gambino" - Alfonse D'Amato
>"Yes sir, Mr. D'Amato" - Kenneth Starr
>"When your fans are idiots, facts don't matter" - Rush Limbaugh
>"Elect me because I'm too old to try later" - Bob Dole
>"Yassuh Boss" - Clarence Thomas
>============================================================
>| | The GOP wants more guns |
>| Dan Thornsberry | |
>|tbe...@computek.net | and less education!!! |
>| | |
>============================================================
>The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty;
>but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong,
>means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the
>weak. -Will Durant
\\/ayne //\ann
Tim Watson
Thornsberry expresses an opinion containing only two vulgarities, other
than his logic:
>>
>Typically when you offer a reduced sentence for testimony,
>you at least make a cursory investigation into the
>reliability of the witness. No prosecutor worth a crap
>would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
>because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
>
>Unless of course, you are only after a few headlines
>and political points. If you don't really give a shit
>about the outcome of the trial, and you are a partisan
>asshole (Starr) then you might rely on a pathetic
>witness like Hale. Starr is as bad a Hale.
>
It will be helpful to all of us, in evaluating that expression of
opinion, to know Mr. Thornsberry's legal education and experience. Will
you help us, Mr. tberry?
Most of what is posted above is the usual dogmatic vitriol, without any
substance. If you want credibility, tberry, please share your bonefides
with us. Thanks.
Tim Watson
Dan Thornsberry
In article <3185BB...@globaldialog.com>, j...@globaldialog.com says...
>
>Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>>
>
>> >
>> Hale has been hired by Starr to perjure himself.
>
>
>You must be listening to more of that pathetic White House
>spin.
Hale must be the worst witness of any trial. Starr either
knew what a piss poor witness Hale was and wanted to try
to milk some political miles from it, or Starr is too stupid
to find his own way home.
--
Dan Thornsberry
In article <4m93cr$4...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
Well, Mr. Apoligist For Starr, would you care to detail which
portion of my post is inaccurate. Your reply was the dogmatic
vitriol. You are running out of ways to defend the incredibly
poor performance of the hack Starr.
William R. Discipio Jr
Jim Kennemur (volt...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: No but he is ONE of us. You know us David. The liberals! We're the
: folks ripping you a new orifice every time you trot out your
: conservative B.S.
You aren't a liberal. Liberals don't call blacks they disagree with
'house niggers.' Stop lying, Jim.
: Again with the charges of racism? Since when is Montanan a RACE of
: people?
No Jim, you are a racist because you repeatedly call blacks you disagree
with 'house nigger.' And you lamely try to defend your use of epithets
by hiding behind Malcolm X. Where's the quote you promised us?
: How about " Is that a nice enough shine Justice Scalia" - Clarence
: Thomas?
See. You aren't liberal at all. You are just a radical leftist.
: Wagner. Do us all a favor and write Disprickio about the two of you
: posting together so we can ignore both of you at once?
Do you often 'ignore' people by quoting them in your .sig? Bwahahahaha!
You aren't called DoLTaire for nothing!
: Jim
: =-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
: disc...@crl.com (William R. Discipio Jr) wrote:
:
: Yeah, I'm obsessed...Your BS just doesn't cut it, Gail.
: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Plus Jim [Kennemur] does not call all blacks he disagrees with house
niggers Jim [Kennemur] calls house niggers that he disagrees with house
niggers. Big difference Dippy." -- Shawn Smith <ssh...@ccsi.com>
David Wagner
In article <4m3qed$j...@canton.charm.net>, tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) says:
>
[deleted to CONSERVE bandwidth]
>>
>Typically when you offer a reduced sentence for testimony,
>you at least make a cursory investigation into the
>reliability of the witness. No prosecutor worth a crap
>would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
>because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
Maybe that is EXACTLY why, Dan, Mr. Starr is NOT bringing Bill
Clinton to the stand, the DEFENSE is... After all, Bill Clinton is
the "cronic and pathalogical[sic] liar"...
Jeez, Dan, you're not only incapable of understanding, but illiterate as well.
... it's pathological...
BTW, Dan, you seem to have a fondness for the word "putz"... maybe 'cause that is
what you are always playing with????
>Find the REAL quotes:
>"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
...
>"Yassuh Boss" - Clarence Thomas
Dan Thornsberry - the biggest RACIST on the 'net
std disclaimer's apply
Dan Thornsberry
In article <4maerq$g...@wellspring.us.dg.com>, dwa...@flotsam.us.dg.com says...
>
>In article <4m3qed$j...@canton.charm.net>, tbe...@computek.net (Dan
Thornsberry)
>says:
>>
>[deleted to CONSERVE bandwidth]
>>>
>>Typically when you offer a reduced sentence for testimony,
>>you at least make a cursory investigation into the
>>reliability of the witness. No prosecutor worth a crap
> ^^^^^^^^^^
>>would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
>
>Maybe that is EXACTLY why, Dan, Mr. Starr is NOT bringing Bill
>Clinton to the stand, the DEFENSE is... After all, Bill Clinton is
>the "cronic and pathalogical[sic] liar"...
>
>Jeez, Dan, you're not only incapable of understanding, but illiterate as well.
>... it's pathological...
>
>BTW, Dan, you seem to have a fondness for the word "putz"... maybe 'cause that
i
>s
>what you are always playing with????
>
Starr has hired Mr. Hale to lie to the jury.
--
"America, love it or leave it" - The Old Right
"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
"I am the GOP" - Timothy McVeigh
"Send us your insane, your violent, your racist" - Statue of Montana
"Give any senile old fool a credit card and he can
give you the illusion of prosperity" - Ronald Reagan
"Mommie, did the astrologer OK the press conference?" R. Reagan
"I might not be good enough for the US, but I'm
still good enough for Texas" - Phil Gramm
"The guvermint spens two much on edjication" - The GOP
"Come here little girl, I have something for you" - D. Koresh
"I am the NRA" - Timothy McVeigh
"I am personally responsible for beginning 80% of
all conversations in the US." - Rush Limbaugh
"OK son, If you see anyone coming, blast away" - R. Weaver
"Is the cash in the envelope?" - Newt Gingrich
"Yes sir, Mr. Gambino" - Alfonse D'Amato
"Yes sir, Mr. D'Amato" - Kenneth Starr
"When your fans are idiots, facts don't matter" - Rush Limbaugh
"Elect me because I'm too old to try later" - Bob Dole
"Yassuh Boss" - Clarence Thomas
Star witness - A person who will enhance your position
when they testify.
Starr witness - A person you hire to perjure themselves.
Libruul - A person smarter than yourself.
Commie - A libruul who has traveled outside of Georgia.
NRA life member - A person whose father is also their
grandfather.
Dittohead - A person who decides thinking is just too
strenuous.
Libertarian - Member of an elite group of 14,000. Would
be much higher if ex-cons could vote.
John Birchers - Would be Libertarians if they could vote.
============================================================
| | The GOP wants more guns |
| Dan Thornsberry | |
|tbe...@computek.net | and less education!!! |
| | |
============================================================
The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty;
but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong,
means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the
weak. -Will Durant
Joke of the week:
Q. Why are there no altar girls?
A. Because 9 out of 10 priests prefer little boys.
Steve Davis
In article <4m67pq$p...@news1.sunbelt.net>, dk...@sunbelt.net (Daryl King) writes:
-> In article <4m447c$o...@canton.charm.net>,
-> tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
[snip]
-> That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests that
-> Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise taxes,
-> etc..
I think this is a valid presumption since those who elected him don't seem to be
bothered about the litany of broken campaign promises.
--
Steve Davis .................. telephone: (770) 345 2141 .........
Nikodyne Technologies .............. fax: (770) [dead] ...........
1524 Adobe Trail ................. email: s...@nikodyne.com .......
Canton, Georgia 30314 ............ http: [hosed] ................
pgp fingerprint: 21 55 8E 51 43 E5 6E 2F 57 CB 77 12 F2 E4 78 34.
ºººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººº
INVESTIGATE: MENA, FOSTER, R.BROWN
seneca
s...@nikodyne.com (Steve Davis) wrote:
>In article <4m67pq$p...@news1.sunbelt.net>, dk...@sunbelt.net (Daryl King) writes:
>-> In article <4m447c$o...@canton.charm.net>,
>-> tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>[snip]
>-> That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests that
>-> Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise taxes,
>-> etc..
>I think this is a valid presumption since those who elected him don't seem to be
>bothered about the litany of broken campaign promises.
I hope you don't mind my asking, but how many is a litany and which
campaign promise were you talking about? Just trying to get some
information. Thanks.
sensen
John Q. Public
Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>
> In article <3185BB...@globaldialog.com>, j...@globaldialog.com says...
> >
> >Dan Thornsberry wrote:
> >>
> >
> >> >
> >> Hale has been hired by Starr to perjure himself.
> >
> >Not according to Democrats who work for Starr.
> >
> >You must be listening to more of that pathetic White House
> >spin.
>
> Hale must be the worst witness of any trial.
Wait till HRC takes the stand.
Wayne Mann
s...@nikodyne.com (Steve Davis) wrote:
from Murder, Bank Fraud, Drugs, and Sex
How Whitewater Will Change Your Life Forever
Despite all you have read about the Clinton scandals, you
have never seen the whole story -- or anything close to it.
Here, for the first time, you will see the full horror
gathered together thread by thread.
By Nicholas A. Guarino
Editor, The Wall Street Underground
Former TV Host, Commodities Week
Former Arkansas Businessman
Drug Running, Massive Bank Fraud, Extortion, Rape, Attacks,
Threats, Beatings, Cover-ups, Break-Ins, Bribery, Thefts,
Conflicts of Interest, Arson, Money Laundering, Official
Lies, Insider Trading, Non-Stop Adultery, Election Fraud,
Obstruction of Justice, Campaign Fraud, Federal Witness
Tampering, Destruction of Subpoenaed Documents, and Accessory
to 21 or so Murders...
<snip>
Victim No. 4. Vincent Foster, who was Clinton's counsel
for Whitewater, was the highest government official to meet
an untimely death since the Kennedys.
He could have killed himself on July 20, 1993, as Robert
Fiske, Clinton's "independent" counsel claimed. But it's
rather doubtful. The story line concocted by Fiske has about
20 major holes in it_ which partly explains his replacement
by Kenneth Starr A few examples:
* Official photos show the alleged suicide gun in Vince's
right hand. Trouble is, he was left-handed. (Of course, a
hit man wouldn't have known that.) Fiske ignored this in his
report.
* Vince went out and hired two lawyers on July 19. As
Clinton's man in charge of covering up Whitewater, he had
failed badly and could see everything was about to unravel
(which it began to do in Arkansas the very next day).
Question: Why pay for a lawyer to launch a defense and then
shoot yourself a day later? Fiske ignored this.
* After a somewhat hurried lunch in his office July 20, Vince
grabbed his jacket and left the White House with the words,
"I'll be back." And then we are supposed to believe,
apparently, that he picked up a White House beeper, drove to
his Georgetown townhouse, got a gun, drove to a lonely park
in Arlington, walked 200 yards to a steep slope, went down
into some thick bushes, sat down, shot himself and then threw
his glasses 13 feet away through heavy brush, and wound up
lying down supine and perfectly straight, legs together, with
arms straight down at his side, the gun still in his hand,
and trickles of blood running from his mouth in several
directions, including uphill. What's wrong with this picture?
* Where's the bullet? None was ever found even after a
massive search and excavation. Could it be that the police
and FBI looked in the wrong place? Sgt. George Gonzalez (the
first paramedic on the scene) and his boss both insisted they
found Foster 200 feet from the official spot. If they're
right, then why was the body moved?
* Where are the fingerprints on the gun? There were none!
* Where are the skull fragments? None were ever found.
Normally, a .38 will blow out a 4" to 5" hole, with blood and
brains everywhere. Because of the mess and the noise, most
sophisticated hit men today repack their cartridges with a
half charge. This explains the tiny, one-inch hole in the
back of Vince's head. Fiske skipped this.
* Who is the mystery blonde whose hairs were found on Vince?
And why did Fiske not mention that carpet fibers and semen
were found on his shorts? In this age of detective movies,
how could anyone think such clues unworthy of mention in a
serious report?
Sadly, the real reason Fiske was sacked by that 3-judge panel
was not to preserve an "appearance of impartiality," as the
papers said. They were simply tipped off that Fiske was
rapidly burying everything he could. For instance, when David
Hale's trial judge refused to keep Bill Clinton's name
entirely out of Hale's testimony, Fiske immediately stopped
the trial and changed his charge from a huge felony to a
small misdemeanor_with a vastly reduced sentence!
* Where's the suicide note? Vince wrote an unsigned outline
of a resignation letter, which Clinton's counsel Bernard
Nussbaum kept for six days, tore into 27 pieces (without
leaving one single fingerprint_try that!), then changed his
mind and let the bright yellow pieces strangely appear in
Vince's briefcase, which the police and FBI had already
inspected and found to be empty. But this "suicide note" says
nothing about suicide, of course. And the final letter is
missing.
* Today, thanks to the drug trade, hit men have polished the
"staged suicide" to an exact science. If any sign of a
struggle remains, the killer has failed his task. The trick
is to persuade the victim he'll be OK if he cooperates_and
then shoot suddenly. In the vile jargon of the professional
assassins I've had the misfortune of meeting, "Ya gotta
butter up a turkey before ya roast 'im." To my utter
amazement, neither Fiske nor the Senate investigators knew
anything about how hit men work today.
* I could go on and on and on. Fiske quoted reports_even an
anonymous one_from visitors to the park that day. But some
witnesses also saw "a menacing-looking Hispanic man" by a
white van with its big door open near Vince's car just before
the body was found. Fiske left that out.
* Instead of allowing Vince's office to be sealed after his
death, top Clinton staffers Bernie Nussbaum, Patsy Thomasson,
and Maggie Williams frantically rifled it for "national
security matters" (read: incriminating Whitewater documents)
and carted them off to Hillary's closet upstairs. In a
stunning show of chutzpah, they even made the park police and
FBI agents sit in the hallway for two hours while they did
it. And Nussbaum later claimed it was only ten minutes! (An
FBI agent disclosed to me that a file was opened for
obstruction of justice, but Bill had it closed.)
Why would anybody want a nice, gentle fellow like Vince
Foster killed and his body dumped in a park? For some
excellent reasons, which I detail in my book, The Impeached
President. Believe me, it's a stunning story, and I'd like to
give you a complimentary copy. But the #1 reason is that
Vince knew far too much and he had to go because he was about
to crack_and that would have ended the Clinton presidency
right there and then.
Suppose, however, it was suicide. Suppose Whitewater was
becoming such a horror that suicide seemed better than facing
the music.
What then?
Then the only logical explanation is scenario #2, as follows:
* Vince's Whitewater coverup was coming apart. Facts were
popping up in the press and people were talking. For
instance, Clinton's partner in Whitewater, Jim McDougal, had
gone to Little Rock attorney and 1990 Republican
gubernatorial candidate Sheffield Nelson and made a taped
statement which I have heard, saying:
I could sink it [the coverup] quicker than they could lie
about it if I could get in a position so I wouldn't have my
head beaten off. And Bill knows that.
* So sensitive was Vince to criticism that he was still
bothered about the heat he was getting for his role in
Travelgate. In fact, Fiske stated that those close to Vince
thought that "the single greatest source of his distress was
the criticism he ... received following the firing of seven
employees from the White House Travel Office." Little did
they know the whole story. Vince had to keep Whitewater
details bottled up inside_even at home.
* On the day Vince shot himself, he received a shocking phone
call from an attorney at Arkansas' Rose Law Firm saying that
FBI Director William Sessions was about to subpoena the
documents of Judge David Hale. Hale was a Clinton appointee
who charged that Clinton forced him to give fraudulent SBA
loans of millions of dollars to Clinton's friends. In the
Senate hearings, Clinton's people denied such a call took
place, but I know for a definite fact it did. And I'm backed
up by the Rose phone billings and Vince's phone log. Also,
Sen. Christopher Bond (R.-Mo.) later confirmed that the call
was from "an old friend" at Rose.
* About this time, Clinton fired his FBI Director_a step so
desperate that no President had ever taken it.
* Vince realized that the genie was out of the bottle. He had
confided to his brother-in-law, former congressman Beryl
Anthony, that he was very worried that Congress itself was
about to launch a criminal probe into his affairs. (In this
scenario, the "suicide note" was actually the "opening
argument for his defense" before Congress_a defense which
Vince told his wife he wrote on July 11.)
* He was sure that in such a probe, the easy-going David Hale
would spill the beans and drag in Gov. Tucker, Steve Smith,
Madison Marketing, Castle Grande, Whitewater, Vince
himself_and, inevitably, Bill Clinton. He mentally added up
the fines and prison terms he would face for concealing
Bill's crimes_many of which he had taken a supporting role
in. The totals were horrendous. And the thought of being a
central figure in America's first presidential impeachment
was too much for his quiet mind to bear. He told his wife
and sister that he was thinking of resigning. (But he still
couldn't let on about the Whitewater crisis.)
* He was cracking up. Everyone around him agreed he looked
and sounded terrible. The Desyrel prescribed by his doctor
didn't help. So when the call came about Hale's subpoena, he
had to go home and think things over. But there, alas, he
could think of no way out. So he put two bullets in his
revolver, drove across the Potomac to the first quiet spot he
found, hid himself in some bushes where he could pray in
solitude, and pulled the trigger.
That's the most probable suicide scenario. Unfortunately for
Clinton, it's almost as damning as the murder scenario.
Today everyone - from Vince's family to the press to the White
House - professes to be baffled by Vince's death. "How on
earth," they wonder, "could such a typical Washington flap as
Travelgate cause Vince to be so depressed?"
Under either scenario, the plain answer is: It didn't.
>In article <4m67pq$p...@news1.sunbelt.net>, dk...@sunbelt.net (Daryl King) writes:
>-> In article <4m447c$o...@canton.charm.net>,
>-> tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>[snip]
>-> That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests that
>-> Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise taxes,
>-> etc..
>I think this is a valid presumption since those who elected him don't seem to be
>bothered about the litany of broken campaign promises.
>--
>Steve Davis .................. telephone: (770) 345 2141 .........
>Nikodyne Technologies .............. fax: (770) [dead] ...........
>1524 Adobe Trail ................. email: s...@nikodyne.com .......
>Canton, Georgia 30314 ............ http: [hosed] ................
>pgp fingerprint: 21 55 8E 51 43 E5 6E 2F 57 CB 77 12 F2 E4 78 34.
>ºººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººº
>INVESTIGATE: MENA, FOSTER, R.BROWN
Wayne Mann
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
Park Police Charge in Depositions:
White House Stonewalled Foster Investigation
By M. Stanton Evans......written some months ago
prior to the Current Hearings
Despite systematic efforts to downplay the issue,
doubts about the official version of Vincent Foster's
death and its possible bearing on the Whitewater-Madi-
son dispute, keep boiling to the surface.
As reported in previous numbers of this column (see
HUMAN EVENTS, August 6, page 5, and the cover story
of the August 12 issue), key conclusions on this topic
reached by former Independent Counsel Robert Fiske
have been subject to sensational challenge. Most
notably, Fiske's account of the Foster death scene at a
Virginia park has been rebutted by the "confidential
witness" Fiske tells us found the body. This witness,
called "C.W." in the Fiske report, says there was no gun
in Foster' s hand when the body was discovered-
directly counter to Fiske's assertions.
Equally curious, and explosive, is mounting evi-
dence that agents of the Clinton White House obstruct-
ed the investigation of Foster's death in numerous
ways. This interference mainly took the form of facing
down and intimidating members of the U.S. Park Police
called in to handle the inquiry, resulting in repeated
failure to come up with crucial data or assure the
integrity of what was gathered.
The most damaging charges to this effect come from
the Park Police themselves whose sworn statements
recite a tale of constant "stonewalling" by the White
House. These matters were partially aired in Senate
hearings in July, but the mysterious absence of the most
critical police official and efforts by Democratic senato
to muffle and explain away the charges consigned the
to the back pages of the papers. Yet since Fiske and oth-
ers hang so much on the Park Police inquiry, this is
issue of the first importance.
White House Officials'
Takeover of Foster Probe
The sworn depositions of the officers, reviewed by
HUMAN EVENTS, are full of allusions to "stonewalling"
tactlcs. From the outset, says one policeman, they ·'lost
control" of the investigation to agents of the White
House. "It was clear," he says, "that whatever would
happen would happen, and we would have little or no
control of this." The Park Police, he adds, "were frus-
trated at every turn." Another says, "I know that Capt.
Hume [the officer who failed to show up for the hearing]
was very upset, the White House was stonewalling us in
our investigation."
As the officers tell it, they were balked in
their investigation at three different leves: In
securing the physical evidence that was
obtained at the death scene, in questioning Foster's
friends and family, and in trying to get access
to Foster's office and the papers it con-
tained. (These problems were compounded by
others-such as failing to get fingerprints from
Foster's car-based on the assumption that the
death was a suicide to begin with.)
Among the items of evidence the Park Police failed to
securewere Foster's official White House pager, finger-
prints from the note belatedly discovered by White House
staffers, Foster's diary and personal effects, phone
records and papers from his home, and official papers
thet had been in his possession. (To this list may be
added the wine cooler or bottle C.W. says he saw near
Foster's body, which nowhere appears in the official
public record.)
Most relevant to the Whitewater issue, the police
were barred from Foster's office, while it was being
intensively searched by administration agents, led by
then-White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum. Accord-
ing to the police, this violated their understanding
With the Secret Service, who were supposed to seal
the office, "so, if there was any evidence there, it
would still be there when we got there." Instead, the
office was left unsealed until the following morning.
"Anyone who wanted to go into that office could go in,"
one officer says. 'They certainly had been in that
office, we leanered by their own admission. So whatever
they wanted to do at that point . . . had been done."
As part of the "stonewalling" tactic, this officer
alleges, the police were left to cool their heels,
"waiting permission to do our job," while White House
operative controlled the office. It was, he says, "a
simple task interview a few people, go in and see if
there was any thing in there that was relevant to the
investigation. . .We waited two days there, two days."
As a result, all the searching was done by adminis-
tration agents, who then decided what the police should
see. Another officer describes it:
'Park Police did not search that office, FBI did not
search that office, Secret Service did not search that
office. They were told to sit down, while eight, nine
attorneys searched that office, White House personnel
searched that office, and decided what would be okay
to give to Mr. Hamilton [the Fosters' personal
attorney] to look at befere he would give it to us to
look at."
As we now know-from the piecemeal disclosure
that has marked this case throughout-the Whitewater.
papers from Foster's office in fact were taken to the
Clinton residence in the White House by Mrs. Clinton's
chief of staff, Margaret Williams, and kept there for
a period of five days.(This handling of the Whitewater
documents was ruled out of bounds for questioning in
the Senate hearings-on the grounds that it was still
being reviewed by Fiske.)
Police Official Describes
White House Interference
The Park Police were equally buffaloed in their
attempts to question Foster's friends and family. When
they went to the Foster residence, they soon found it
full of Clinton officials-including the President him-
self-and were unable to ask questions or gather evid-
ence in systematic fashion. It was, says one policeman,
"a circus atmosphere." This officer's description of
the scene is indicative of the whole investigation:
"[We] were kind of standing there with our thumbs in
our pockets . . . and Mr. Clinton gave us a look again,
President Clinton. We both kind of felt at that point that
they don't want us here . . . we were being ignored, so,
at that point, we kind of felt, well, we are not going to
push this situation."
At the residence, a female officer was attempting to
question Sheila Anthony, Foster's sister. According to
the police, "Web Hubbell came and he just moved her
out of the way, didn't say 'excuse me,' or nothing, just
pushed her [the officer] out of the way, and that was
that." At the White House, the officers charge, Nuss-
baum and his subordinates variously disrupted and close-
ly monitored efforts to question members of Foster's
staff. This was the more egregious in that Nussbaum
himself, as Foster' s superior would have been a poten-
tially important witness (he was never officially
questioned by the Park Police).
Of a piece with these precautions, when the police at
last were allowed to question Mrs. Foster, they could do
so only with her attomey present. According to Hume, "that
was all part of the continuing thing that [another officer]
and I kind of joke about, permission to do our job we had
to clear that through James Hamilton." The officers' state-
ments are replete with coments to this effect.
As to the Whitewater aspect, the Park Police had no
background on this issue, and were totally unprepared to
pursue it. For example, two Clinton-connected out-of-
town attomeys who were in touch with Foster's of ice on
the day of his death were asked no questions on this sub
ject (and Senate Democrats also declined to have then
questioned in the hearings). One of these attomeys had
been deeply involved in Whitewater issues, and the other
was a partner in the Foster-Hubbell-Clinton law firm in
Little Rock.
All of which provides needed context for the bland
assertion in Fiske's report that "there is no evidence that
any issues related to Whitewater" were involved in Fos-
ter's death. This is a classic study in begging the ques-
tion, if there "is no evidence" now, was there any such
before the ransacking of Foster's office? The Fiske
report makes no mention of this conduct, or the removal
of Whitewater papers that resulted from it. lf there was
no Whitewater nexus, why the haste to get these papers?
And if this angle was still open to Fiske's inquiry, thus
neatly precluding Senate questions on the subject, why
the flat "no evidence" assertion?
Similar Catch 22's abound throughout this whole
"investigation." The FBI wasn't called in to investigate
Foster's death because it was a suicide; the police didn't
take fingerprints from Foster's car before they searched
it because it was a suicide; blonde hair and carpet fibers
found on Foster's clothing weren't investigated because
it was a suicide; and so on. From such reasoning in a cir-
cular method the inquiry proved " it was a suicide
and further questions (to quote the Senate Demo-
crats) are "obscene."
None of which, be it noted, means that Foster was
murdered. At this point, given the tactics that have been
used, there is no telling what it does mean. He may have
committed suicide in fact, but by methods different from
the official version; or the suicide verdict may be correct,
but the effort to distance it from the Whitewater scandal
isn't; or some combination of these may be the case. All
of this remains unclear, as it was obviously meant to be,
and is subject to further inquiry both by the new inde-
pendent counsel, and by congressional committees.
What seems clear enough is that the "investigation"
by the Park Police, based on their own official state-
ments, was in fact no investigation at all-thanks largely
to stonewalling actions by the White House. Whether such
actions are an obstruction of justice under federal laws
is an intriguing question that should also receive
some further study.
-------------------
This would be under the category as 'what we knew before'
So to answer the 'lamestream press' and Leon 'botom line'
Panetta, Did any of Hubbel's testimony bother you? Or did
any of the 'new' revelations by the Park Police duo cause
you problems? Ponder these.....
Hubbell..."Vince was afraid to use the White House phones"
"It was in hindsight, an indication of his
disease"
"I went over to the Foster house to help look
for a gun"
Park Police.."Stonewalling, there comes that word again,
I, ah mean, they were not as helpful as they
could have been."
"I searched the Foster body, the pants and
emptied all the pockets" "I went to the morgue
to get the Foster car keys, from his pocket"
>In article <4m93cr$4...@ren.cei.net>, tim...@cei.net says...
>>
>>Thornsberry expresses an opinion containing only two vulgarities, other
>>than his logic:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>Typically when you offer a reduced sentence for testimony,
>>>you at least make a cursory investigation into the
>>>reliability of the witness. No prosecutor worth a crap
>>>would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
>>>because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
>>>
>>>Unless of course, you are only after a few headlines
>>>and political points. If you don't really give a shit
>>>about the outcome of the trial, and you are a partisan
>>>asshole (Starr) then you might rely on a pathetic
>>>witness like Hale. Starr is as bad a Hale.
>>>
>>
>>It will be helpful to all of us, in evaluating that expression of
>>opinion, to know Mr. Thornsberry's legal education and experience. Will
>>you help us, Mr. tberry?
>>
>>Most of what is posted above is the usual dogmatic vitriol, without any
>>substance. If you want credibility, tberry, please share your bonefides
>>with us. Thanks.
>>
>>Tim Watson
>>
>Well, Mr. Apoligist For Starr, would you care to detail which
>portion of my post is inaccurate. Your reply was the dogmatic
>vitriol. You are running out of ways to defend the incredibly
>poor performance of the hack Starr.
>--
>"America, love it or leave it" - The Old Right
>"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
>"I am the GOP" - Timothy McVeigh
>"Send us your insane, your violent, your racist" - Statue of Montana
>"Give any senile old fool a credit card and he can
> give you the illusion of prosperity" - Ronald Reagan
>"Mommie, did the astrologer OK the press conference?" R. Reagan
>"I might not be good enough for the US, but I'm
> still good enough for Texas" - Phil Gramm
>"The guvermint spens two much on edjication" - The GOP
>"Come here little girl, I have something for you" - D. Koresh
>"I am the NRA" - Timothy McVeigh
>"I am personally responsible for beginning 80% of
> all conversations in the US." - Rush limbaugh
>"OK son, If you see anyone coming, blast away" - R. Weaver
>"Is the cash in the envelope?" - Newt Gingrich
>"Yes sir, Mr. Gambino" - Alfonse D'Amato
>"Yes sir, Mr. D'Amato" - Kenneth Starr
>"When your fans are idiots, facts don't matter" - Rush Limbaugh
>"Elect me because I'm too old to try later" - Bob Dole
>"Yassuh Boss" - Clarence Thomas
>============================================================
>| | The GOP wants more guns |
>| Dan Thornsberry | |
>|tbe...@computek.net | and less education!!! |
>| | |
>============================================================
>The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty;
>but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong,
>means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the
>weak. -Will Durant
\\/ayne //\ann
Wayne Mann
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
Sunday London Telegraph, 7/23/95
SLOPPY RIGHT LETS CLINTON OFF THE HOOK
Whitewater and Waco look like spelling out whitewash as
Republicans fail to fault the president says Ambrose Evans-
Pritchard.
It was one of those rare times when Bill Clinton could sit out on
the balcony of the White House, light a cigar, and smile.
The Waco and Whitewater hearings in Congress have failed to
inflict any serious damage on the Clinton presidency. Quite the
opposite. The Republicans are the ones in trouble, struggling to
counter criticism that they are engaged in a cheap attack on the
White House. If things carry on the same way next week they will
have a major fiasco on their hands. And it serves them right.
The Whitewater hearings, which began on Tuesday in the Senate,
are sickening to behold. Many of the Republican committe
staffers do not know what they are doing. They have called the
wrong witnesses to the stand, asked the wrong questions,
addressed the wrong issues. For years the Republicans have been
hankering after the full subpoena power of the majority party:
now they have it, they promptly squander the advantage through
incompetence.
These hearings are likely to do more harm than good. They give
the impression that the death of deputy White House counsel
Vincent Foster is being examined "exhaustively", for the
umpteenth time, making it harder to keep up public pressure for a
real inquiry. But the committee has refused to look into the
death itself, having concluded last year in a single day of
superficial testimony that Foster took his own life.
The Republicans are confining the inquiry at this stage to the
removal of documents from Foster's office by a White House
raiding party. But they are setting themselves up for failure by
going on a wild goose chase to link Foster's death and the
Clinton's Whitewater property investments. The idea that Foster
shot himself over Whitewater is infantile. *Whitewater is not
important* (repeat after me a thousand times). It is a decoy, a
distraction, a nonsense. The Republicans are willing to commit
themselves to this idiocy, while ignoring the mountain of
evidence suggesting that the crime scene was staged to make a
murder look like a suicide, and that elements of the US Park
Police and even the FBI were partners in the cover-up.
Good riddance to Whitewater. But the collapse of the Waco
hearings in the House of Representatives is another matter. The
assault on the Branch Davidian cult in 1993 was the worst abuse
by federal authorities since the killing of 200 American Indians
at Wounded Knee in 1890. And in many ways it was similar - two
cultures talking past each other.
However it is dawning on the American public that the Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms fabricated drug allegations against
the Branch Davidians to justify a request for assistance from the
military. It is also clear that the ATF never tried to deliver a
search warrant by peaceful means, insisting instead on a "dynamic
entry" from the beginning.
Witnesses disputed the official story that cult members started
the original firefight by preparing an "ambush" for the ATF.
Moreover, they alleged that Texas National Guard helicopters drew
the first blood that day by strafing the compound in an
unprovoked assault from the air. If this is true, it is an
outrage.
But precious little of this has reached the general public. The
first day was totally eclipsed by the testimony of Kiri Jewell, a
14-year old girl who said that she was sexually abused by cult
leader David Koresh when she was 10 years old. Her descriptions
of life in the compound - babies beaten until they bled, girls
molested at every turn, constant talk of suicide - was music to
the ears of the Democrats. Who can blame them for seizing on her
words?
But how could the Republicans fail to anticipate that this would
happen? Why did they let her testify in front of the TV cameras
knowing that it would be impossible to conduct a cross-
examination of the poor girl in such an atmosphere? And why
didn't they do their homework on the Jewell story?
A few telephone calls would have told them that Kiri had not been
a resident in the compound - despite press reports to the
contrary. She was living with her mother and grandmother in
California for most of the years in question. Her father, David
Jewell, has been promoting her allegations on the TV talk show
circuit.
He is a man of questionable character. He abandoned Kiri in
Jamaica when she was an infant, has had a series of unstable
marriages, and was arrested in 1988 for failure to pay child
support.
So, legitimate hearings probing alleged federal abuse of power
have turned into a kangaroo-court trial of David Koresh. The
Democrats, working with a liberal-leaning media, have won the
first round.
It will be interesting to see whether next week's testimony about
the use of deadly and flammable CS gas in a compound full of
children is also dismissed by America's opinion elite.
>In article <3185BB...@globaldialog.com>, j...@globaldialog.com says...
>>
>>Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> >
>>> Hale has been hired by Starr to perjure himself.
>>
>>Not according to Democrats who work for Starr.
>>
>>You must be listening to more of that pathetic White House
>>spin.
>Hale must be the worst witness of any trial. Starr either
>knew what a piss poor witness Hale was and wanted to try
>to milk some political miles from it, or Starr is too stupid
>to find his own way home.
Dan Thornsberry
In article <4mbuqu$d...@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
hud...@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>s...@nikodyne.com (Steve Davis) wrote:
>
>>In article <4m67pq$p...@news1.sunbelt.net>, dk...@sunbelt.net (Daryl King)
write
>s:
>>-> In article <4m447c$o...@canton.charm.net>,
>>-> tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>
>>[snip]
>
>>-> That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests
tha
>t
>>-> Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise
taxes
>,
>>-> etc..
>
>>I think this is a valid presumption since those who elected him don't seem to
b
>e
>>bothered about the litany of broken campaign promises.
>
>campaign promise were you talking about? Just trying to get some
>information. Thanks.
>
>sensen
>>Nikodyne Technologies .............. fax: (770) [dead] ...........
>>1524 Adobe Trail ................. email: s...@nikodyne.com .......
>>Canton, Georgia 30314 ............ http: [hosed] ................
>>pgp fingerprint: 21 55 8E 51 43 E5 6E 2F 57 CB 77 12 F2 E4 78 34.
>>ºººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººº
>>INVESTIGATE: MENA, FOSTER, R.BROWN
>
>
who are with the 58% side of the spectrum find thoses
promises not kept were blocked by conservatives and right
wing PACs.
--
-------------------------------------------------------
Wanted - Any person willing to lie to a jury. No
experience necessary. It would be beneficial if the
applicant had an intense hatred of the Clintons. All
interested parties should contact Mr. Kenneth Starr
through the Dole campaign office. If Mr. Starr is
unavailable, you can contact any New Jersey numbers
runner and the message will be passed on to Senator
D'Amato.
-------------------------------------------------------
Star witness - A person who will enhance your position
when they testify.
Starr witness - A person you hire to perjure themselves.
Libruul - A person smarter than yourself.
Commie - A libruul who has traveled outside of Georgia.
NRA life member - A person whose father is also their
grandfather.
Dittohead - A person who decides thinking is just too
strenuous.
Libertarian - Member of an elite group of 14,000. Would
be much higher if ex-cons could vote.
John Birchers - Would be Libertarians if they could vote.
--------------------------------------------------------
# 1 militiaman problem:
Government intrusion into their lives.
# 2 militiaman problem:
Cockroach infestation of their homes.
==========================================================
| | The GOP wants more guns |
| Dan Thornsberry | |
|tbe...@computek.net | and less education!!! |
| | |
|==========================================================|
| The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; |
| but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, |
| means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the |
| weak. -Will Durant |
==========================================================
Joke of the week:
-
Q. Why are there no altar girls?
A. Because 9 out of 10 priests prefer little boys.
------------------------------------------------------------
"America, love it or leave it" - The Old Right
"America, blow it up" - The Newt Reich
"I am the GOP" - Timothy McVeigh
"Send us your insane, your violent, your racist" - Statue of Montana
"Give any senile old fool a credit card and he can
give you the illusion of prosperity" - Ronald Reagan
"Mommie, did the astrologer OK the press conference?" R. Reagan
"I might not be good enough for the US, but I'm
still good enough for Texas" - Phil Gramm
"The guvermint spens two much on edjication" - The GOP
"Come here little girl, I have something for you" - D. Koresh
"I am the NRA" - Timothy McVeigh
Brian Thomas
"John Q. Public" <j...@globaldialog.com> wrote:
>Wait till HRC takes the stand.
It ain't over 'til the First Lady sings.
BT
see also: http://users.aol.com/beachbt/index.html
or http://www.en.com/users/bthomas/index.html
for the latest Clinton Scandal info.
Wayne Mann
hud...@worldnet.att.net (seneca) wrote:
>s...@nikodyne.com (Steve Davis) wrote:
>>In article <4m67pq$p...@news1.sunbelt.net>, dk...@sunbelt.net (Daryl King) writes:
>>-> In article <4m447c$o...@canton.charm.net>,
>>-> tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>>[snip]
>>-> That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests that
>>-> Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise taxes,
>>-> etc..
>>I think this is a valid presumption since those who elected him don't seem to be
>>bothered about the litany of broken campaign promises.
>I hope you don't mind my asking, but how many is a litany and which
>campaign promise were you talking about? Just trying to get some
>information. Thanks.
>sensen
>>Steve Davis .................. telephone: (770) 345 2141 .........
>>Nikodyne Technologies .............. fax: (770) [dead] ...........
>>1524 Adobe Trail ................. email: s...@nikodyne.com .......
>>Canton, Georgia 30314 ............ http: [hosed] ................
>>pgp fingerprint: 21 55 8E 51 43 E5 6E 2F 57 CB 77 12 F2 E4 78 34.
>>ºººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººº
>>INVESTIGATE: MENA, FOSTER, R.BROWN
This president says whatever is expedient and makes promises
that he never intends to keep, and keeps "twisting the truth" (once-
upon-a-time-known-as-lying).
July 1991: Question: "Have you ever used Marijuana or any
illegal drugs?"
Answer: "I've never broken any drug law."
- Arkansas Gazette, July 24th, 1991, p. 8B
Asked this 3 times, on 3 separate occasions, by 3 different
interviewers, your Great White Hope repeated this claim. Until
faced with irrefutable proof, that is.
Then he said:
March 29th, 1992: "I've never broken a state law. But when I
was in England I experimented with marijuana a time or two..."
Later, in that same interview, "No one has ever asked me that
question point-blank."
- The New York Times, March 30th, 1992, p.A15.
On Jan. 19, 1992 Bill Clinton said, "I want to make it very clear
that this middle-class tax cut, in my view, is central to any attempt
we're going to make to have a short-term economic strategy."
But on Jan. 14, 1993 at a press conference, Bill Clinton said,
"From New Hampshire forward, for reasons that absolutely
mystified me, the press thought the most important issue in the
race was the middle-class tax cut. "I never did meet any voter who
thought that."
On Sept. 8,1992, Bill Clinton said, "The only people who will
pay more income taxes are the wealthiest 2 percent, those living in
households making over $200,000 a year."
In response to a Bush-Quayle ad that people with incomes of as
little as $36,000 would pay more taxes under the Clinton plan, Bill
Clinton said on Oct. 1, 1992, "It's a disgrace to the American
people that the president (Bush) of the United States would make
a claim that is so baseless, that is so without foundation, so
shameless in its attempt to get votes under false pretenses."
Yet the NY TIMES in the analysis of Clinton's budget wrote,
"There are tax increases for every family making more than
$20,000 a year!"
"While Clinton continued to defend his middle-class tax cut
publicly, he privately expressed the view to his advisers that it was
intellectually dishonest." (The Agenda, by Bob Woodward, p. 31)
In Business Week, July 6, 1992, Bill Clinton was quoted as
saying, "When I began the campaign, the projected deficit was
$250 billion. Now it's up to $400 billion."
However in Time Magazine. 2 weeks later, Bill Clinton was
quoted as saying, "When I started in New Hampshire working with
those numbers, we felt the deficit was going to be around $250
billion a year, not $400 billion." Which is it, Bill?
But then he said on Feb. 10, 1993, "The deficit of this country
is about $50 billion a year bigger than I was told it was going to be
before the election." --our President said this after "discovering"
that the deficit was $290 billion, $110 Billion LESS than he had
claimed in July! Which story are we to believe from our
president??
President Clinton said on March 23, 1993 at a press
conference: "M economic package will cut $500 billion from the
deficit in five years." Yet the projected deficit in 1998 with
Clinton's budget is $234 billion, the projected deficit in 2001 with
Clinton budget is $401 billion.(These figures come from Bill
Clinton's budget document, "A Vision of Change for America."-
Feb. 1993.
The Wall Street Journal
Opinion-Editorial Page
2/21/95
NUMBERS GAME
It's the season to cut government, or at least to claim to, so we
perked up when we heard President Clinton declare in his State of
the Union address that he had cut (quote) more than 100,000
positions from the federal bureaucracy in the last two years alone
(unquote).
As they say in detective work, interesting - if true. So we
decided to pull out the new federal budget to check. What we
discovered is that Mr. Clinton isn't lying, but he isn't telling the
whole truth either. His speeches need an asterisk.
From 1993 to Fiscal Year 1996, the Clinton Administration will
in fact have cut the federal government by 157,000 full-time
positions. But there's a catch: 131,000 of those positions are
civilian Defense jobs. Those cuts reflect the inevitable post-cold
War decline in military spending, not some brave retrenchment in
the overall size of government.
There's another catch: Of the 26,000 positions to be cut from
the non-Defense side of Leviathan, 9,500 come from the
Resolution Trust Corp. and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.
Those two banking agencies grew like Topsy to manage the
savings and loan debacle, but are now cutting back as the bailout
ends. The RTC is even supposed to go out of business this year.
The bottom line is that over the course of the Clinton presidency,
the non-Defense, non-S&L part of the government will cut a
measly 16,500 full-time positions out of some 1.2 million. In
essence the domestic government is conducting business as usual.
Mr. Clinton also says he's making the federal establishment
(quote) the smallest it has been since John Kennedy was President
(unquote). But again, excluding Defense, total executive branch
employment will be 1,181,000 in 1996. Back in 1963, when JFK
was President, total non-Defense employment was a mere
861,000. Maybe that should be the 1996 goal for Republican
budget-cutters; they could say they got the idea from the President.
Are you referring to the guy who absolutely, positively
guaranteed that if he was elected governor of Arkansas in 1990 he
would serve 4 years? The one who said that a 4% income tax rate
on the wealthiest 2% of the population would raise 165 billion
dollars, reduce the deficit, and allow a middle class tax cut? The
one who claimed that the republicans had killed the Lani Guinier
nomination? The one who claimed that he had decided to make
himself available to the draft after 4 acquaintances were killed in
Viet Nam (rather than after his birthday had been drawn #311 in
the draft lottery)? The one who claimed that "affirmative action
"benefits white men?
Are you referring to that Clinton?
No, he said that the new gasoline tax (4 cent per gallon) would
go to a deficit reduction trust fund. No such fund has been
established to date... it is going to the general fund to fund their
increased social programs... check it out... call the government
accounting office and ask... they are stealing your money...
And I give you my word to do it without the blame game of the
last twelve years of Reagan and Bush.
Good, OOPS, that lasted almost a whole day!
The NY Times reported that people earning under $100,000
paid an additional $3 billion in '94.
But wait, Clinton and the media claimed that only the top 2%
were going to pay more taxes. Was that another lie from the
Clinton administration?
According to liberal Democrats, anyone who makes a dollar
more than you is the "rich". On the issue of "taxes on the rich",
consider the following:
Most of the "rich" are smart business men & women... they own
and run their own businesses. In addition, Clinton passed a 1%
increase in corporate income taxes...
If you owned your own business, or if you were the CFO of a
corporation, and your cost of doing business went up, what would
you do ? You'd pass this cost on...
Should they feel the heat, so to speak, they pass the new costs
on to the principle consumers of the goods and services they
offer...The middle-class and poor....So who really is paying
Clinton's new taxes ?
As the saying goes. "When the "rich" get a sniffle, the middle-
class catches pneumonia."
The real problem with this attack on the rich is the underlying
assumption that this is a static class of people. Not so.
A great many people start off "poor" and as they move up in the
business world become successful and eventually become what the
Democrats would currently characterize as "rich." Indeed most of
the wealth in this country is in the hands of senior citizens. Many
of these people at one time had no money at all.
So, the attack on the rich is not an attack on some evil group. Its
mostly an attack on people who after much sacrifice and hard
work have finally reached their peak earning years and are trying
to enjoy and pass on the fruits of their labor.
There were many other Clinton proposals that didn't fly (thank
you) which would have further parted people from their
capital....Here's a couple of winners he proposed in 1992....
Imputed rent...You would pay tax on "rent" that you would have
collected FROM YOURSELF...Tax real, only...NO RENTAL
INCOME !!!!!
Lower the inheritance threshold...From about $650,000 to
around $200,000. What has been an exclusive tax of the rich,
Clinton wanted to give as a gift to the middle-class...
Newsweek reports that Clinton and the Democrats will no
longer pursue the rich vs. middle class America class warfare
strategy. They realize that it won't help them politically and,
according to Newsweek, "President Clinton...doesn't really believe
in it."
Newsweek noted that they are abandoning it, so apparently,
they do not agree, nor do their sources. Clinton has been bashing
the rich since his campaign, claiming disingenuously that they are
not paying their "fair share" of taxes, i.e. falsely implying that
they
are paying less than they did in '80. Hillary went after the "greedy"
pharmaceutical companies, after selling their stock short. They
have made many self-serving moralistic statements about the
"greed" of the '80's. Clinton and the Democrats condemn
Republican. tax cut plans because they claim it will "help the rich."
If this is not class warfare, what is?
Clinton has pursued this strategy for about 3 years, and now he
claims he **doesn't really believe in it?** Hey, I'll buy that!
Newsweek reported it as "news." How strangely non-
judgmental that they would not question the sincerity of Clinton's
claim when his actions speak otherwise.
Clinton's economic policies ???
1) A massive tax increase
2) "Hope" that interest rates would remain low
3) A few R & D credits for Al Gore's pet high tech industries
Was there anything else ?
In reference to the Social Security trust fund --
"But it's important that we not panic; there is no immediate
danger to retirement. Our accumulated surpluses would be
sufficient to pay the liabilities to 2029 at current payroll tax
rates."
From an interview; published in the May '95 issue of Money
magazine.
Hasn't anyone told him that the Social Security trust fund has
no money -- Congress borrowed it all and left IOUs with no plans
yet on how to redeem those IOU's?
Given that Clinton seems so concerned about the hateful
rhetoric in: politics these days, I wonder if he intends to limits
such
violent: statements as "taking food from the mouths of children",
"war on the poor", "throwing the elderly out on the streets", and
"contract _on_ America, Evil, Extreme, Mean Spirited and on and
on and on.
We've given more power to states and localities and to private
citizens. Our proposals would further accelerate those trends.
Bill Clinton, White House press conference, 3/3/95
Fact: Clinton lobbied to defeat the Balance Budget Amendment in
the Senate, so states and localities are prevented from getting the
chance to even debate the amendment. His Administration
opposes giving block grants to the states. He is opposing all Block
Grants as well.
We support adding 100,000 new police officers.
Bill Clinton, same news conference.
Fact: There are no "100,000 police officers". Never has been,
never will be. Even liberal columnist DeWayne Wickam concluded
in USA Today: "Many of the 100,00 cops promised in the crime
bill will never materialize". On the day AFTER Clinton signed the
bill into law, The New York Times reported that "some law
enforcement analyst said the Administration has in effect misled
local officials by vastly overstating the number of police officers
who can be hired under the program".
It's called lying where I come from, how about where you came
from?
Everyone knows that I have tougher ethic rules than any other
President.
Bill Clinton, news conference 3/3/95 defending the ethical
standards of his administration.
Fact: In addition to his own Whitewater troubles and many high-
level resignations, several members of his cabinet are currently
facing probes in their conduct, including four "Special
Prosecutors..
The budget which came from the President said,, I've given up;
that as long I am President of the United States there will never be
a balanced budget. That is an astonishing statement.
Paul Tsongas, at a Capitol Hill press conference, 2/7/95.
Clinton said, "Who do these people think they are?" referring to
people who stockpile guns, "No other government in the world
would allow their citizens to do that."
How about this!
Sara Brady was quoted in several papers and magazines at an
Hand Gun Incorporated rally a couple of weeks before the Senate
vote saying..." Our main agenda is to have ALL guns banned. We
must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to
distort facts or even lie.
"Our task of creating a Socialist America can only succeed
when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
-- Sarah Brady (President of Handgun Control, Inc. and wife of
James Brady, whom the Brady Bill was named for and was
recently "honored" by Clinton)
Democratic Rep. David Obey said "I think most of us learned
some time ago that if you don't like the president's position on a
particular issue, you simply need to wait a few weeks."
Foreign Policy?
Well, let's see, start with Somalia. It's not the first, but it's
one of
the best known. In the winter of 1992 George Bush ordered US
troops to guard food shipments in and around the ports. The
deployment ended in March, a resounding success. A couple of
months later Clinton got suckered into sending the Marines back in
as 'nation builders'. In the course of which he deliberately violated
Executive Orders of the Presidency not to engage in deliberate or
willful assassination of foreign political or military leaders; you DO
remember the AC130 gunships firing wildly into civilian occupied
apartment buildings, in an effort to murder a Somali warlord and
his followers, don't you? I didn't think so. Long term memory is
not a strong
suite of the Clintonestae.
Want a small disaster? At the opening of the Holocaust
Memorial, 1993. A luncheon was served afterwards for the
distinguished Jewish guests and foreign dignitaries. The main
entree' was Honey baked Ham.
Bosnia. Bosnia is always good for a laugh. On the campaign
trail, Candidate Clinton said that he was qualified as Commander
In Chief of the Arkansas National Guard to make military
decisions. As an example, he bragged that if he were elected, he
would bomb the Serbs. In May of 1993, he sent Warren
Christopher to convince the Europeans to allow him to do just
that. Christopher went with the 'strongest message possible' to urge
England, France, and Germany that he was fully committed to this
course. Even as the Secretary of State was waiting to meet with
them in Geneva, Your Great White Hope appeared on the tube
and said that 'bombing the Serbs probably wouldn't be necessary'.
Warren Christopher is not noted for emotional displays: Some
have suggested that he has had the centers in his brain responsible
for emotion surgically removed. After Christopher heard what
Fearless Leader did, he ALMOST cracked a frown. The
Europeans went ballistic. This year Clinton pushed the bombing
schtick again to make himself look tougher than the average
weenie and we all know what happened: The Serbs have basically
gone on to conquer Bosnia. In that sad country you now have
Serbian held territory and UN funded and run Serbian
concentration camps disguised as 'safe havens'. The only reason
these haven't been overrun is the Serbs haven't got the vaguest idea
what to do with the refugees huddled in them.
"OH!" you shriek hysterically, "PREVIOUS
ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE HAD FAILURES, TOO! IT'S
NOT FAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIRRRRR THAT BILL CLINTON IS
BEING JUDGED SO HARSHLY!!!!" Previous administrations
had more successes than failures. George Bush built an
international coalition to defeat Iraq in the Gulf War - even got the
Arabs to talk to the Israelis afterwards. Ronald Reagan stopped the
advance of Marxism in this hemisphere and cracked the will of the
Soviets hard-liners to continue the Cold War. Carter, whatever else
he may have failed at, can always look back at the Camp David
Accords. Ford wasn't President long enough to do more than
handle domestic problems, but Nixon reopened the dialogue with
China. And so on back through American history. Yes, they had
failures, but never were so many failures in so short a time the
result of INCREDIBLE INCOMPETENCE by an Administration.
Dan Rather responding to congratulations to him and Connie
Chung during and interview shortly after they teamed up together,
"If we could be one-hundredth as gret as you and Hillary Rodham
Clinton have been together in the White House," the supposedly
objective newsman said, "we'd take it right now and walk away
winners."
"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of
ordinary Americans"
- President Clinton (USA TODAY, 11 March 1993, page 2A)
Dan Thornsberry
In article <3189FF...@globaldialog.com>, j...@globaldialog.com says...
>
>Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>>
>> In article <3185BB...@globaldialog.com>, j...@globaldialog.com says...
>> >
>> >Dan Thornsberry wrote:
>> >>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> Hale has been hired by Starr to perjure himself.
>> >
>> >Not according to Democrats who work for Starr.
>> >
>> >You must be listening to more of that pathetic White House
>> >spin.
>>
>> Hale must be the worst witness of any trial.
>
I could also wait until John Q. shows signs of minimal
neural activity.
Steve Davis
In article <4mbuqu$d...@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>, hud...@worldnet.att.net (seneca) writes:
-> s...@nikodyne.com (Steve Davis) wrote:
->
-> >In article <4m67pq$p...@news1.sunbelt.net>, dk...@sunbelt.net (Daryl King) writes:
-> >-> In article <4m447c$o...@canton.charm.net>,
-> >-> tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
->
-> >[snip]
->
-> >-> That Hale committed perjury is proof that he was hired to do so suggests that
-> >-> Clinton was elected to lie, decieve, change positions on issues, raise taxes,
-> >-> etc..
->
-> >I think this is a valid presumption since those who elected him don't seem to be
-> >bothered about the litany of broken campaign promises.
->
-> I hope you don't mind my asking, but how many is a litany and which
-> campaign promise were you talking about? Just trying to get some
-> information. Thanks.
->
-> sensen
The following were taken from a full page list in the Dec. 29 1992 issue of the
Atlanta Journal/Constitution of Clinton's promises. I selected my favorites from
the 207 item list of promises.
oppose federal gas tax increases
link continuation of trade breaks for China with political liberalization
and human rights improvement
insist on a full accounting of all POWs and MIAs befor normalizing relations
with Vietnam
strengthen border patrols
support completion of the space station Freedom
middle-class tax cut
50% capital gains exclusion for long term small business investment
tougher stance against unfair foreitn trading partners
require welfare recipients to get a job after two years on the rolls
--
Dan Thornsberry
In article <4mh2kh$s...@alterdial.UU.NET>, s...@nikodyne.com says...
>
>
>The following were taken from a full page list in the Dec. 29 1992 issue of
the
>Atlanta Journal/Constitution of Clinton's promises. I selected my favorites
fro
>m
>the 207 item list of promises.
>
>oppose federal gas tax increases
Until he uncovered the republican lies on the actual debt.
>
>link continuation of trade breaks for China with political liberalization
>and human rights improvement
>
>insist on a full accounting of all POWs and MIAs befor normalizing relations
>with Vietnam
>
>strengthen border patrols
done
>
>support completion of the space station Freedom
>
Can't afford it.
>middle-class tax cut
>
See republican lies above.
>50% capital gains exclusion for long term small business investment
see republican lies above,.
>
>tougher stance against unfair foreitn trading partners
>
done.
>require welfare recipients to get a job after two years on the rolls
>
Blocked by republicans who want kids to go hungry so they
can give massive tax breaks to the rich.
>
>
>--
>Steve Davis .................. telephone: (770) 345 2141 .........
>Nikodyne Technologies .............. fax: (770) [dead] ...........
>1524 Adobe Trail ................. email: s...@nikodyne.com .......
>Canton, Georgia 30314 ............ http: [hosed] ................
>pgp fingerprint: 21 55 8E 51 43 E5 6E 2F 57 CB 77 12 F2 E4 78 34.
>ºººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººººº
>INVESTIGATE: MENA, FOSTER, R.BROWN
--
Eleanor Rotthoff
tbe...@computek.net (Dan Thornsberry) wrote:
>In article <4mh2kh$s...@alterdial.UU.NET>, s...@nikodyne.com says...
>>The following were taken from a full page list in the Dec. 29 1992 issue of
>>the Atlanta Journal/Constitution of Clinton's promises. I selected my favorites
>>from he 207 item list of promises.
>>
>>oppose federal gas tax increases
>
>Until he uncovered the republican lies on the actual debt.
Let's see if I understand you correctly, Dan. Your argument is that
Clinton couldn't keep his campaign promises because he didn't know the
extent of the national debt until after he was inaugurated??? This
was a deep, dark secret that the Republicans kept from him???
Eleanor Rotthoff
RHA
In article <4m93cr$4...@ren.cei.net>, Tim Watson <tim...@cei.net> wrote:
>Thornsberry expresses an opinion containing only two vulgarities, other
>than his logic:
>
>
>>>
>>Typically when you offer a reduced sentence for testimony,
>>you at least make a cursory investigation into the
>>reliability of the witness. No prosecutor worth a crap
>>would bring a cronic and pathalogical liar onto the stand
>>because it is so easy to make them look like a putz.
>>
>>Unless of course, you are only after a few headlines
>>and political points. If you don't really give a shit
>>about the outcome of the trial, and you are a partisan
>>asshole (Starr) then you might rely on a pathetic
>>witness like Hale. Starr is as bad a Hale.
>>
>
>It will be helpful to all of us, in evaluating that expression of
>opinion, to know Mr. Thornsberry's legal education and experience. Will
>you help us, Mr. tberry?
>
>Most of what is posted above is the usual dogmatic vitriol, without any
>substance. If you want credibility, tberry, please share your bonefides
>with us. Thanks.
Lawyer Timmy invokes his favorite strategy of hypocrisy; having
repeatedly referred to Bill Clinton as "Slick" and other names,
declaring him guilty before any trial is held, having called
another person "slimeball" over a difference of opinion. Never once
exercising that "fine" legal mind of his to dazzle us with facts
and reasoning.
So, little man (or "little mind"), come, show us your *bona fides*
first. Or are you just gonna post your usual dogmatic vitriol?
You want credibility? Show some facts or (and I realize this would
be a stretch for you) reasoning when you post.
--
rha
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin
> A litany is the amount felt by the losing side. Those
> who are with the 58% side of the spectrum find thoses
> promises not kept were blocked by conservatives and right
> wing PACs.
Perhaps you could explain how the conservatives and the right wing PACs
stopped Clinton from exercising authority legitimately and
Constitutionally his, as commander in chief of the military, by issuing
an executive order superseding and reversing a previous executive order.
That is *all* it would have taken to permit homosexuals in the military,
which Clinton promised to do.
The "battle" Clinton "lost" with Congress was over an attempt to have
Congress pass a law overriding Reagan's executive order. It was a
completely unnecessary battle, as there was no Congressional action to
reverse -- so it was entirely within the authority of the Commander in
Chief to reverse the policy without the consent of Congress. He did not
lose the battle, as at the end of it there was (and is) *still* no
Congressional action on the subject, so it is *still* entirely within
the authority of the Commander in Chief to reverse the policy without
the consent of Congress.
So tell us, how do the conservatives stop Clinton from exercising his
authority in this matter?
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin
> A litany is the amount felt by the losing side. Those
> who are with the 58% side of the spectrum find thoses
> promises not kept were blocked by conservatives and right
> wing PACs.
Perhaps you could explain how the conservatives and the right wing PACs
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin
> A litany is the amount felt by the losing side. Those
> who are with the 58% side of the spectrum find thoses
> promises not kept were blocked by conservatives and right
> wing PACs.
Perhaps you could explain how the conservatives and the right wing PACs
Dan Thornsberry
In article <4mm803$m...@praline.no.NeoSoft.com>, ri...@praline.no.NeoSoft.com
says...
Timmys bonefides consist of his lips joined to Newts crank!
Tim Watson
Warrl kyree Tale'sedrin <wa...@blarg.net> wrote:
>> A litany is the amount felt by the losing side. Those
>> who are with the 58% side of the spectrum find thoses
>> promises not kept were blocked by conservatives and right
>> wing PACs.
>
>stopped Clinton from exercising authority legitimately and
>Constitutionally his, as commander in chief of the military, by issuing
>an executive order superseding and reversing a previous executive order.
>
>That is *all* it would have taken to permit homosexuals in the military,
>which Clinton promised to do.
>
>The "battle" Clinton "lost" with Congress was over an attempt to have
>Congress pass a law overriding Reagan's executive order. It was a
>completely unnecessary battle, as there was no Congressional action to
>reverse -- so it was entirely within the authority of the Commander in
>Chief to reverse the policy without the consent of Congress. He did not
>lose the battle, as at the end of it there was (and is) *still* no
>Congressional action on the subject, so it is *still* entirely within
>the authority of the Commander in Chief to reverse the policy without
>the consent of Congress.
>
>So tell us, how do the conservatives stop Clinton from exercising his
>authority in this matter?
>
>
I'm not sure what y'all are talking about, but whoever said the 58% for
Clinton in a recent poll believe that conservatives and right wing PACs
kept Clinton from keeping campaign promises surely didn't mean to say
that.
How did they stop Clinton from proposing a middle class tax cut?
How did they force Clinton to seek and pass, with no Republican votes,
the largest tax increase in American history?
And so on, ad nauseam. There is a web site somewhere with a list of
Clinton's 1992 campaign promises. If someone will post the URL, you must
go there and review the unkept promises. You will quickly recognize that
it was Bill Clinton who kept Bill Clinton from keeping those promises,
and you will then retract the above remark - won't you?
Tim Watson
John Q. Public
Dan Thornsberry wrote:
> his lips joined to Newts crank!
> 9 out of 10 priests prefer little boys.
> ------------------------------------------------------------