Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks
By Agence France-Presse
Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
The francophone province’s assembly passed a law after a marathon two-day session requiring groups of more than 10 people to inform police in advance when they plan to hold a demonstration, and provide the location, time and duration of the event.
On its heels, the city of Montreal also passed a bylaw prohibiting wearing masks after several cloaked protesters smashed storefronts and clashed with police during demonstrations continuing into a 14th week amid a deadlock in negotiations.
Fines for breaches of the two laws range from $500 to $250,000. An exception to the no-mask rule, however, is allowed for the Halloween holiday.
Students, unions and the opposition party criticized the government over the emergency law, with one former premier calling it “barbaric.”
Louis Masson, president of the Quebec Bar Association representing 24,000 lawyers, said it goes too far by restricting fundamental “freedoms of expression… to a point that begs the question, who would now dare protest.”
Before the emergency law was unveiled, a majority of Quebecers had backed the government on the need for a hike in school fees of more than $1,700 to help reduce a budget deficit.
But many also said Quebec Premier Jean Charest had mismanaged the crisis, according to polls.
The student demonstrations culminated Monday with the resignation of Quebec’s education minister and rising political star, Line Beauchamp, following a standoff when 165,000 students rejected a tentative deal last week to stretch tuition hike over seven years instead of five.
“When laws are unjust, sometimes you have to disregard them, and we’re seriously thinking about this now,” student leader Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois said about the emergency measure.
> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks
> By Agence France-Presse
> Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
> The francophone province’s assembly passed a law after a marathon two-day
> session requiring groups of more than 10 people to inform police in
> advance when they plan to hold a demonstration, and provide the location,
> time and duration of the event.
> On its heels, the city of Montreal also passed a bylaw prohibiting
> wearing masks after several cloaked protesters smashed storefronts and
> clashed with police during demonstrations continuing into a 14th week
> amid a deadlock in negotiations.
> Fines for breaches of the two laws range from $500 to $250,000. An
> exception to the no-mask rule, however, is allowed for the Halloween
> holiday.
> Students, unions and the opposition party criticized the government over
> the emergency law, with one former premier calling it “barbaric.”
> Louis Masson, president of the Quebec Bar Association representing 24,000
> lawyers, said it goes too far by restricting fundamental “freedoms of
> expression… to a point that begs the question, who would now dare
> protest.”
> Before the emergency law was unveiled, a majority of Quebecers had backed
> the government on the need for a hike in school fees of more than $1,700
> to help reduce a budget deficit.
> But many also said Quebec Premier Jean Charest had mismanaged the crisis,
> according to polls.
> The student demonstrations culminated Monday with the resignation of
> Quebec’s education minister and rising political star, Line Beauchamp,
> following a standoff when 165,000 students rejected a tentative deal last
> week to stretch tuition hike over seven years instead of five.
> “When laws are unjust, sometimes you have to disregard them, and we’re
> seriously thinking about this now,” student leader Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois
> said about the emergency measure.
The students only brought this upon themselves. They had a simple
grievance that could've easily been solved, which the government
managed to find a way to deal with when they originally arrived at
half-a-dozen very sensible proposals, but then students wanted none of
the reasonable offerings, they simply demanded more, and kept
demanding more, going beyond their original grievance. It's like they
became drunk by their own protesting ability and lost sight of what
they were complaining about in the first place. I sided with them at
the beginning with some of their issues but thought their griping over
tuition fees was idiotic - Quebec's fees are the lowest in North
America, almost insanely so. But the government agreed to spread out
the increases to seven years instead of five, to minimize the annual
increases, which would've been only a few hundred bucks extra per year
and all the students had to do was save an extra buck a day to afford
that increase. But noooooo, that would be toooo haaaarrrrddd for them
to do. Anyway, the government then came up with another set of
proposals that went beyond their original set and again they were all
very reasonable sounding. This time the student leadership accepted,
but the rank and file outrightly rejected it, with no explanation as
to why. So clearly, the students have gotten out of hand, verging on
anarchy, and the government had little choice but to try to control
the situation by passing the law, which most people favor since
they're already fed up with these rebels without a cause. This is a
clear-cut example of the difference between constructive protest and
destructive protest, with the former yielding results and solutions
and the latter resorting to restrictive laws. At this point, it's not
at all certain as to how this'll all be resolved, but one can only
hope the students end up at their parents' cottages for the summer or,
better yet, get a job in the real world so they could afford their
tiny tuition hikes and get off the streets already.
>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
>> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
>> The francophone province’s assembly passed a law after a marathon
>> two-day session requiring groups of more than 10 people to inform
>> police in advance when they plan to hold a demonstration, and provide
>> the location, time and duration of the event.
>> On its heels, the city of Montreal also passed a bylaw prohibiting
>> wearing masks after several cloaked protesters smashed storefronts and
>> clashed with police during demonstrations continuing into a 14th week
>> amid a deadlock in negotiations.
>> Fines for breaches of the two laws range from $500 to $250,000. An
>> exception to the no-mask rule, however, is allowed for the Halloween
>> holiday.
>> Students, unions and the opposition party criticized the government
>> over the emergency law, with one former premier calling it “barbaric.”
>> Louis Masson, president of the Quebec Bar Association representing
>> 24,000 lawyers, said it goes too far by restricting fundamental
>> “freedoms of expression… to a point that begs the question, who would
>> now dare protest.”
>> Before the emergency law was unveiled, a majority of Quebecers had
>> backed the government on the need for a hike in school fees of more
>> than $1,700 to help reduce a budget deficit.
>> But many also said Quebec Premier Jean Charest had mismanaged the
>> crisis, according to polls.
>> The student demonstrations culminated Monday with the resignation of
>> Quebec’s education minister and rising political star, Line Beauchamp,
>> following a standoff when 165,000 students rejected a tentative deal
>> last week to stretch tuition hike over seven years instead of five.
>> “When laws are unjust, sometimes you have to disregard them, and we’re
>> seriously thinking about this now,” student leader Gabriel
>> Nadeau-Dubois said about the emergency measure.
> The students only brought this upon themselves. They had a simple
> grievance that could've easily been solved, which the government managed
> to find a way to deal with when they originally arrived at half-a-dozen
> very sensible proposals, but then students wanted none of the reasonable
> offerings, they simply demanded more, and kept demanding more, going
> beyond their original grievance. It's like they became drunk by their
> own protesting ability and lost sight of what they were complaining
> about in the first place. I sided with them at the beginning with some
> of their issues but thought their griping over tuition fees was idiotic
> - Quebec's fees are the lowest in North America, almost insanely so. > But the government agreed to spread out the increases to seven years
> instead of five, to minimize the annual increases, which would've been
> only a few hundred bucks extra per year and all the students had to do
> was save an extra buck a day to afford that increase. But noooooo, that
> would be toooo haaaarrrrddd for them to do. Anyway, the government then
> came up with another set of proposals that went beyond their original
> set and again they were all very reasonable sounding. This time the
> student leadership accepted, but the rank and file outrightly rejected
> it, with no explanation as to why. So clearly, the students have gotten
> out of hand, verging on anarchy, and the government had little choice
> but to try to control the situation by passing the law, which most
> people favor since they're already fed up with these rebels without a
> cause. This is a clear-cut example of the difference between
> constructive protest and destructive protest, with the former yielding
> results and solutions and the latter resorting to restrictive laws. At
> this point, it's not at all certain as to how this'll all be resolved,
> but one can only hope the students end up at their parents' cottages for
> the summer or,
> better yet, get a job in the real world so they could afford their tiny
> tuition hikes and get off the streets already.
Right or wrong, I think the government response is a serious mistake and reflects poorly on Quebec. How would you feel if the folks in Toronto -- or Ottawa -- passed similar measures?
> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks
> By Agence France-Presse
> Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada? Perhaps these students should grow up.
> >> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
> >> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
> >> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
> >> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
> >> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
> >> The francophone province’s assembly passed a law after a marathon
> >> two-day session requiring groups of more than 10 people to inform
> >> police in advance when they plan to hold a demonstration, and provide
> >> the location, time and duration of the event.
> >> On its heels, the city of Montreal also passed a bylaw prohibiting
> >> wearing masks after several cloaked protesters smashed storefronts and
> >> clashed with police during demonstrations continuing into a 14th week
> >> amid a deadlock in negotiations.
> >> Fines for breaches of the two laws range from $500 to $250,000. An
> >> exception to the no-mask rule, however, is allowed for the Halloween
> >> holiday.
> >> Students, unions and the opposition party criticized the government
> >> over the emergency law, with one former premier calling it “barbaric.”
> >> Louis Masson, president of the Quebec Bar Association representing
> >> 24,000 lawyers, said it goes too far by restricting fundamental
> >> “freedoms of expression… to a point that begs the question, who would
> >> now dare protest.”
> >> Before the emergency law was unveiled, a majority of Quebecers had
> >> backed the government on the need for a hike in school fees of more
> >> than $1,700 to help reduce a budget deficit.
> >> But many also said Quebec Premier Jean Charest had mismanaged the
> >> crisis, according to polls.
> >> The student demonstrations culminated Monday with the resignation of
> >> Quebec’s education minister and rising political star, Line Beauchamp,
> >> following a standoff when 165,000 students rejected a tentative deal
> >> last week to stretch tuition hike over seven years instead of five.
> >> “When laws are unjust, sometimes you have to disregard them, and we’re
> >> seriously thinking about this now,” student leader Gabriel
> >> Nadeau-Dubois said about the emergency measure.
> > The students only brought this upon themselves. They had a simple
> > grievance that could've easily been solved, which the government managed
> > to find a way to deal with when they originally arrived at half-a-dozen
> > very sensible proposals, but then students wanted none of the reasonable
> > offerings, they simply demanded more, and kept demanding more, going
> > beyond their original grievance. It's like they became drunk by their
> > own protesting ability and lost sight of what they were complaining
> > about in the first place. I sided with them at the beginning with some
> > of their issues but thought their griping over tuition fees was idiotic
> > - Quebec's fees are the lowest in North America, almost insanely so.
> > But the government agreed to spread out the increases to seven years
> > instead of five, to minimize the annual increases, which would've been
> > only a few hundred bucks extra per year and all the students had to do
> > was save an extra buck a day to afford that increase. But noooooo, that
> > would be toooo haaaarrrrddd for them to do. Anyway, the government then
> > came up with another set of proposals that went beyond their original
> > set and again they were all very reasonable sounding. This time the
> > student leadership accepted, but the rank and file outrightly rejected
> > it, with no explanation as to why. So clearly, the students have gotten
> > out of hand, verging on anarchy, and the government had little choice
> > but to try to control the situation by passing the law, which most
> > people favor since they're already fed up with these rebels without a
> > cause. This is a clear-cut example of the difference between
> > constructive protest and destructive protest, with the former yielding
> > results and solutions and the latter resorting to restrictive laws. At
> > this point, it's not at all certain as to how this'll all be resolved,
> > but one can only hope the students end up at their parents' cottages for
> > the summer or,
> > better yet, get a job in the real world so they could afford their tiny
> > tuition hikes and get off the streets already.
> Right or wrong, I think the government response is a serious mistake and
> reflects poorly on Quebec. How would you feel if the folks in Toronto --
> or Ottawa -- passed similar measures?
You think they haven't in the past? What do you think the G20 Summit
was all about? It was a police state in Toronto at the time. What do
you think Prime Minister Trudeau's use of the military to quell a
Quebec rebellion by separatists was about in the 70s? Things had
gotten out of hand back then when a provincial minister was killed by
the separatists and bombings were going on, but the military making
their presence felt certainly had a pacifying effect on those
separatists.
Protesting is fine as long as it doesn't turn into anarchy to disrupt
a democratic society and the majority of people's lives who remain
unaffected by whatever is being protested against. This is just a
stupid student grievance in which the students simply lost site of
their original issues as they got more inebriated by their self-
instilled power to deal with the government and infatuated by their
own news media conferences. They just became too full of themselves
and now it's more about having fun protesting with their buddies every
night just for the sake of protesting (because social media on their
computers isn't as much fun) than fighting for any solution to their
problems - solutions that were already accepted by the leadership, but
rejected by the rabble. But Quebec has had a long history of stupid
protesting, mainly because the French are basically bored in their own
province, having trapped themselves in it the way they have, and
putting the screws to the protests when they get out of hand always
seems to work here.
On May 19, 12:09 pm, Tracey12 <tracey12em...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone think that Canadians are truly free?
Are all the store owners along the main street of downtown truly free
when they can't run their businesses safely for fear having their
windows smashed every night and being looted sometimes? Are car
owners truly free when they leave their cars parked on the streets and
they get vandalized by the protesters? Are taxpayers truly free in
not having to cough up the tens of millions of dollars it's already
cost the city in police crowd control and overtime costs? Is Montreal
truly free for foreign tourists who would like to visit an otherwise
generally safe city but get all these negative reports of what's going
on, so they pass and the city ends up losing tourist dollars? Being
truly free is a two-way street, simpleton, it's not only about what
one side wants. Boy, you're stupid.
> > Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks
> > By Agence France-Presse
> > Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
> > MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
> > measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
> > months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
No, just Quebec. It's Canada's spoiled province. Like I said, you
haven't got a clue as to what socialism really is until you've been in
Quebec, so the US has nothing to worry about with Obama. I don't mind
the province myself and its socialist ways and usually things work out
fine in those ways, if perhaps needlessly too generous in certain
areas from my p.o.v., but something like this is really ridiculous
when the students fail to see the big picture of how lucky they are
with the tuition fees they do pay and how minimal the increases really
are. Of course, the irony to all of this is that most of those
complaining about the increases will already be out of school in the
next year or two or three, so it really won't affect them that much -
unless they all plan on being life-long students.
> Perhaps these students should grow up.
I'll agree with that. But nobody really grows up until they hit their
late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow up.
On May 19, 12:59 pm, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
> On 05/19/2012 11:39 AM, wy wrote:
> >But nobody really grows up until they hit their
> > late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow up.
> Really?
> My generation of Americans had to grow up much earlier. By the time we
> were 20, most of us were out earning our own way in the world.
Yeah. Your generation. I see how much The Three Stooges and Jerry
Lewis grew up. But "earning your way in the world" doesn't solely
equate with "growing up". There's a thing called "intelligence," you
know. You can earn all the living you want, but if you're still
stupid, then you're stupid. Something people with low IQs would kind
of forget about.
> On May 19, 12:59 pm, David Hartung<da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
>> On 05/19/2012 11:39 AM, wy wrote:
>>> But nobody really grows up until they hit their
>>> late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow up.
>> Really?
>> My generation of Americans had to grow up much earlier. By the time we
>> were 20, most of us were out earning our own way in the world.
> Yeah. Your generation. I see how much The Three Stooges and Jerry
> Lewis grew up. But "earning your way in the world" doesn't solely
> equate with "growing up". There's a thing called "intelligence," you
> know. You can earn all the living you want, but if you're still
> stupid, then you're stupid. Something people with low IQs would kind
> of forget about.
And once again our discussion ends with you falling back on calling names.
> > On May 19, 12:59 pm, David Hartung<da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
> >> On 05/19/2012 11:39 AM, wy wrote:
> >>> But nobody really grows up until they hit their
> >>> late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow up.
> >> Really?
> >> My generation of Americans had to grow up much earlier. By the time we
> >> were 20, most of us were out earning our own way in the world.
> > Yeah. Your generation. I see how much The Three Stooges and Jerry
> > Lewis grew up. But "earning your way in the world" doesn't solely
> > equate with "growing up". There's a thing called "intelligence," you
> > know. You can earn all the living you want, but if you're still
> > stupid, then you're stupid. Something people with low IQs would kind
> > of forget about.
> And once again our discussion ends with you falling back on calling names.
On Sat, 19 May 2012 09:39:25 -0700, wy wrote:
> On May 19, 12:19 pm, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
>> On 05/19/2012 09:06 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>> > Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>> > France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>> > MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>> > measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>> > after months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition
>> > hikes.
>> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
> No, just Quebec. It's Canada's spoiled province. Like I said, you
> haven't got a clue as to what socialism really is until you've been in
> Quebec, so the US has nothing to worry about with Obama. I don't mind
> the province myself and its socialist ways and usually things work out
> fine in those ways, if perhaps needlessly too generous in certain areas
> from my p.o.v., but something like this is really ridiculous when the
> students fail to see the big picture of how lucky they are with the
> tuition fees they do pay and how minimal the increases really are. Of
> course, the irony to all of this is that most of those complaining about
> the increases will already be out of school in the next year or two or
> three, so it really won't affect them that much - unless they all plan
> on being life-long students.
>> Perhaps these students should grow up.
> I'll agree with that. But nobody really grows up until they hit their
> late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow up.
In fairness, here's the student side of the issue. I note that back in the 60s, California had the finest universities in the world--and they were tuition-free for state residents. Reagan came along, and they started the same course that Quebec is on now. And people were unsympathetic to students who protested then, too.
Now, the once-proud UC system is a shadow of itself, and the tuitions are five figure and up. The only way to get through college now is to either have very rich parents, be lucky enough to get one of the relatively few scholarships available, and/or cripple yourself for life with immense debt.
I don't approve of the violence, but I do think the students are essentially in the right.
>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
>> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
> Perhaps these students should grow up.
And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.
>>>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>>>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>>>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>>>> after months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition
>>>> hikes.
>>> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
>> No, just Quebec. It's Canada's spoiled province. Like I said, you
>> haven't got a clue as to what socialism really is until you've been in
>> Quebec, so the US has nothing to worry about with Obama. I don't mind
>> the province myself and its socialist ways and usually things work out
>> fine in those ways, if perhaps needlessly too generous in certain areas
>> from my p.o.v., but something like this is really ridiculous when the
>> students fail to see the big picture of how lucky they are with the
>> tuition fees they do pay and how minimal the increases really are. Of
>> course, the irony to all of this is that most of those complaining about
>> the increases will already be out of school in the next year or two or
>> three, so it really won't affect them that much - unless they all plan
>> on being life-long students.
>>> Perhaps these students should grow up.
>> I'll agree with that. But nobody really grows up until they hit their
>> late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow up.
> In fairness, here's the student side of the issue. I note that back in
> the 60s, California had the finest universities in the world--and they
> were tuition-free for state residents. Reagan came along, and they
> started the same course that Quebec is on now. And people were
> unsympathetic to students who protested then, too.
Interesting. Not being from California, this is new to me so I did some looking. Is thei what you refer to? http://tinyurl.com/3d27qbt
>>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
>>> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
>> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
>> Perhaps these students should grow up.
> And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.
Mississippi's commitment to quality affordable post secondary education is longstanding. IN addition we are home to at least three world class universities.
> On Sat, 19 May 2012 09:39:25 -0700, wy wrote:
> > On May 19, 12:19 pm, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
> >> On 05/19/2012 09:06 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
> >> > Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
> >> > France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
> >> > MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
> >> > measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
> >> > after months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition
> >> > hikes.
> >> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
> > No, just Quebec. It's Canada's spoiled province. Like I said, you
> > haven't got a clue as to what socialism really is until you've been in
> > Quebec, so the US has nothing to worry about with Obama. I don't mind
> > the province myself and its socialist ways and usually things work out
> > fine in those ways, if perhaps needlessly too generous in certain areas
> > from my p.o.v., but something like this is really ridiculous when the
> > students fail to see the big picture of how lucky they are with the
> > tuition fees they do pay and how minimal the increases really are. Of
> > course, the irony to all of this is that most of those complaining about
> > the increases will already be out of school in the next year or two or
> > three, so it really won't affect them that much - unless they all plan
> > on being life-long students.
> >> Perhaps these students should grow up.
> > I'll agree with that. But nobody really grows up until they hit their
> > late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow up.
> In fairness, here's the student side of the issue. I note that back in
> the 60s, California had the finest universities in the world--and they
> were tuition-free for state residents. Reagan came along, and they
> started the same course that Quebec is on now. And people were
> unsympathetic to students who protested then, too.
> Now, the once-proud UC system is a shadow of itself, and the tuitions are
> five figure and up. The only way to get through college now is to either
> have very rich parents, be lucky enough to get one of the relatively few
> scholarships available, and/or cripple yourself for life with immense
> debt.
> I don't approve of the violence, but I do think the students are
> essentially in the right.
The students got what they originally wanted, the government gave it
to them and more. But either the leadership didn't believe in what
they agreed to and couldn't sell it to the rank and file or they just
won't be able to sell any agreement at all because the students
themselves are now at a point where they're not only trying to extract
even more than what they began with, but seem to want to bring down
the government itself. Over tuition hikes of $300? Are they crazy?
But that's the mindset of the French here, and it's the French running
the show, not the English students. Every once in a while the French
here contract strike or protest fever because, like I said, they're
bored in Quebec, it's the way it is here. And as in the past, these
things run their course and it's done and everybody goes back into
hibernation mode until they get all antsy again. It's just a matter
of letting this run its course and with summer approaching and their
semester cancelled now till August, I think that more than anything
else will kill the protest in the coming weeks.
But it hasn't affected, nor will it affect, the quality of the
education they get here because a university like McGill has always
been one of the top ranked in the world through thick and thin - it's
the top ranked in Canada and the first university outside of the US to
appear on the top 20 list, at No. 17. No, what the students seem to
want now, without really explaining what more they really want,
appears to go way beyond their original complaints. A more effective
way to get more out of the government is if they had done it in
stages, first settle on the original complaints, then see how they
work out, and if there's anything else to complain about six months
later, bring those up. Instead, they came to the table with just a
few items on their list and then decided to expand them into a global
overview of how the entire university system should operate in Quebec,
how things should be run, who should do what, how much educators and
administrators should get paid, what the janitors' role should be (I
wouldn't be surprised if they included that in), and on and on and on
and on. If they want to run the universities, well, they should
finish their education first and then get a job in the administration
of a university. The population here sympathized with them up to a
point, and now it's well past that point and most people are looking
for an end to it. Only the students, with too much time on their
hands, are thinking otherwise.
> >>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
> >>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
> >>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
> >>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
> >>> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
> >> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
> >> Perhaps these students should grow up.
> > And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.
> Mississippi's commitment to quality affordable post secondary education
> is longstanding. IN addition we are home to at least three world class
> universities.
I don't know what world you're talking about, except Third World,
because you'd have to go far down the list to see any of them here (I
gave up after 200):
On Sat, 19 May 2012 12:33:34 -0700, wy wrote:
> On May 19, 2:39 pm, 2966 Dead <d...@gone.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 May 2012 09:39:25 -0700, wy wrote:
>> > On May 19, 12:19 pm, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
>> >> On 05/19/2012 09:06 AM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>> >> > Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By
>> >> > Agence France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>> >> > MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed
>> >> > emergency measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to
>> >> > restore order after months of sometimes violent student
>> >> > demonstrations over tuition hikes.
>> >> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in
>> >> Canada?
>> > No, just Quebec. It's Canada's spoiled province. Like I said, you
>> > haven't got a clue as to what socialism really is until you've been
>> > in Quebec, so the US has nothing to worry about with Obama. I don't
>> > mind the province myself and its socialist ways and usually things
>> > work out fine in those ways, if perhaps needlessly too generous in
>> > certain areas from my p.o.v., but something like this is really
>> > ridiculous when the students fail to see the big picture of how lucky
>> > they are with the tuition fees they do pay and how minimal the
>> > increases really are. Of course, the irony to all of this is that
>> > most of those complaining about the increases will already be out of
>> > school in the next year or two or three, so it really won't affect
>> > them that much - unless they all plan on being life-long students.
>> >> Perhaps these students should grow up.
>> > I'll agree with that. But nobody really grows up until they hit
>> > their late 20s, and even then, they're only just beginning to grow
>> > up.
>> In fairness, here's the student side of the issue. I note that back in
>> the 60s, California had the finest universities in the world--and they
>> were tuition-free for state residents. Reagan came along, and they
>> started the same course that Quebec is on now. And people were
>> unsympathetic to students who protested then, too.
>> Now, the once-proud UC system is a shadow of itself, and the tuitions
>> are five figure and up. The only way to get through college now is to
>> either have very rich parents, be lucky enough to get one of the
>> relatively few scholarships available, and/or cripple yourself for life
>> with immense debt.
>> I don't approve of the violence, but I do think the students are
>> essentially in the right.
> The students got what they originally wanted, the government gave it to
> them and more. But either the leadership didn't believe in what they
> agreed to and couldn't sell it to the rank and file or they just won't
> be able to sell any agreement at all because the students themselves are
> now at a point where they're not only trying to extract even more than
> what they began with, but seem to want to bring down the government
> itself. Over tuition hikes of $300? Are they crazy? But that's the
> mindset of the French here, and it's the French running the show, not
> the English students. Every once in a while the French here contract
> strike or protest fever because, like I said, they're bored in Quebec,
> it's the way it is here. And as in the past, these things run their
> course and it's done and everybody goes back into hibernation mode until
> they get all antsy again. It's just a matter of letting this run its
> course and with summer approaching and their semester cancelled now till
> August, I think that more than anything else will kill the protest in
> the coming weeks.
> But it hasn't affected, nor will it affect, the quality of the education
> they get here because a university like McGill has always been one of
> the top ranked in the world through thick and thin - it's the top ranked
> in Canada and the first university outside of the US to appear on the
> top 20 list, at No. 17. No, what the students seem to want now, without
> really explaining what more they really want, appears to go way beyond
> their original complaints. A more effective way to get more out of the
> government is if they had done it in stages, first settle on the
> original complaints, then see how they work out, and if there's anything
> else to complain about six months later, bring those up. Instead, they
> came to the table with just a few items on their list and then decided
> to expand them into a global overview of how the entire university
> system should operate in Quebec,
> how things should be run, who should do what, how much educators and
> administrators should get paid, what the janitors' role should be (I
> wouldn't be surprised if they included that in), and on and on and on
> and on. If they want to run the universities, well, they should finish
> their education first and then get a job in the administration of a
> university. The population here sympathized with them up to a point,
> and now it's well past that point and most people are looking for an end
> to it. Only the students, with too much time on their hands, are
> thinking otherwise.
Actually the hikes appear to be about $1625 which is a pretty significant hike.
As I said, I watched a university system superior to Quebec's collapse into near ruin, and this is precisely how it began.
I don't have an issue with the response of ending the semester early. I do have a problem with the notion of curfews and banning the wearing of masks. I expect that from Americans; not Canadians.
On Sat, 19 May 2012 14:09:56 -0500, David Hartung wrote:
> On 05/19/2012 01:42 PM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 May 2012 11:19:58 -0500, David Hartung wrote:
>>>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>>>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>>>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>>>> after months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition
>>>> hikes.
>>> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
>>> Perhaps these students should grow up.
>> And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.
> Mississippi's commitment to quality affordable post secondary education
> is longstanding. IN addition we are home to at least three world class
> universities.
You're joking, right? Academically, neither Ole Miss or MSU have even been in the top 500 since 2006, a ranking that in Quebec is known as "high school". http://www.shanghairanking.com/Search.jsp
>>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
>>> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
>>> The francophone province’s assembly passed a law after a marathon
>>> two-day session requiring groups of more than 10 people to inform
>>> police in advance when they plan to hold a demonstration, and provide
>>> the location, time and duration of the event.
>>> On its heels, the city of Montreal also passed a bylaw prohibiting
>>> wearing masks after several cloaked protesters smashed storefronts and
>>> clashed with police during demonstrations continuing into a 14th week
>>> amid a deadlock in negotiations.
>>> Fines for breaches of the two laws range from $500 to $250,000. An
>>> exception to the no-mask rule, however, is allowed for the Halloween
>>> holiday.
>>> Students, unions and the opposition party criticized the government
>>> over the emergency law, with one former premier calling it “barbaric.”
>>> Louis Masson, president of the Quebec Bar Association representing
>>> 24,000 lawyers, said it goes too far by restricting fundamental
>>> “freedoms of expression… to a point that begs the question, who would
>>> now dare protest.”
>>> Before the emergency law was unveiled, a majority of Quebecers had
>>> backed the government on the need for a hike in school fees of more
>>> than $1,700 to help reduce a budget deficit.
>>> But many also said Quebec Premier Jean Charest had mismanaged the
>>> crisis, according to polls.
>>> The student demonstrations culminated Monday with the resignation of
>>> Quebec’s education minister and rising political star, Line Beauchamp,
>>> following a standoff when 165,000 students rejected a tentative deal
>>> last week to stretch tuition hike over seven years instead of five.
>>> “When laws are unjust, sometimes you have to disregard them, and we’re
>>> seriously thinking about this now,” student leader Gabriel
>>> Nadeau-Dubois said about the emergency measure.
>> The students only brought this upon themselves. They had a simple
>> grievance that could've easily been solved, which the government managed
>> to find a way to deal with when they originally arrived at half-a-dozen
>> very sensible proposals, but then students wanted none of the reasonable
>> offerings, they simply demanded more, and kept demanding more, going
>> beyond their original grievance. It's like they became drunk by their
>> own protesting ability and lost sight of what they were complaining
>> about in the first place. I sided with them at the beginning with some
>> of their issues but thought their griping over tuition fees was idiotic
>> - Quebec's fees are the lowest in North America, almost insanely so. >> But the government agreed to spread out the increases to seven years
>> instead of five, to minimize the annual increases, which would've been
>> only a few hundred bucks extra per year and all the students had to do
>> was save an extra buck a day to afford that increase. But noooooo, that
>> would be toooo haaaarrrrddd for them to do. Anyway, the government then
>> came up with another set of proposals that went beyond their original
>> set and again they were all very reasonable sounding. This time the
>> student leadership accepted, but the rank and file outrightly rejected
>> it, with no explanation as to why. So clearly, the students have gotten
>> out of hand, verging on anarchy, and the government had little choice
>> but to try to control the situation by passing the law, which most
>> people favor since they're already fed up with these rebels without a
>> cause. This is a clear-cut example of the difference between
>> constructive protest and destructive protest, with the former yielding
>> results and solutions and the latter resorting to restrictive laws. At
>> this point, it's not at all certain as to how this'll all be resolved,
>> but one can only hope the students end up at their parents' cottages for
>> the summer or,
>> better yet, get a job in the real world so they could afford their tiny
>> tuition hikes and get off the streets already.
>Right or wrong, I think the government response is a serious mistake and >reflects poorly on Quebec. How would you feel if the folks in Toronto -- >or Ottawa -- passed similar measures?
After the last OWS riot in Seattle they need a similar law.
>>>>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>>>>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>>>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>>>>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order after
>>>>> months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition hikes.
>>>> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in Canada?
>>>> Perhaps these students should grow up.
>>> And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.
>> Mississippi's commitment to quality affordable post secondary education
>> is longstanding. IN addition we are home to at least three world class
>> universities.
> I don't know what world you're talking about, except Third World,
> because you'd have to go far down the list to see any of them here (I
> gave up after 200):
OK, I can accept that. Perhaps it might be better to state that we are home to 8 quality public universities and colleges. As an historic trivia, the first ever heart transplant was done at the University Medical Center in Jackson MS.
Mississippi also has, and has had for many years, 15 public community/Jr. colleges. All this in a state with a population of under three million people.
We may have our problems, but there are some things we do right. Our post secondary education man not be the absolute top, but they do a good job at what they do.
Now if we could just get our primary and secondary schools up to snuff.
On Sat, 19 May 2012 12:45:54 -0700, wy wrote:
> On May 19, 3:09 pm, David Hartung <da...@hotmaiil.com> wrote:
>> On 05/19/2012 01:42 PM, 2966 Dead wrote:
>> > On Sat, 19 May 2012 11:19:58 -0500, David Hartung wrote:
>> >>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>> >>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>> >>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>> >>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>> >>> after months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over
>> >>> tuition hikes.
>> >> Students riot over tuition increases? This is what happens in
>> >> Canada?
>> >> Perhaps these students should grow up.
>> > And maybe watch Quebec turn into another Mississippi.
>> Mississippi's commitment to quality affordable post secondary education
>> is longstanding. IN addition we are home to at least three world class
>> universities.
> I don't know what world you're talking about, except Third World,
> because you'd have to go far down the list to see any of them here (I
> gave up after 200):
>>>> Quebec passes law to restrict protests, ban wearing masks By Agence
>>>> France-Presse Friday, May 18, 2012 19:54 EDT
>>>> MONTREAL — Authorities in Canada’s Quebec province passed emergency
>>>> measures Friday to curb protest rights in a bid to restore order
>>>> after months of sometimes violent student demonstrations over tuition
>>>> hikes.
>>>> The francophone province’s assembly passed a law after a marathon
>>>> two-day session requiring groups of more than 10 people to inform
>>>> police in advance when they plan to hold a demonstration, and provide
>>>> the location, time and duration of the event.
>>>> On its heels, the city of Montreal also passed a bylaw prohibiting
>>>> wearing masks after several cloaked protesters smashed storefronts
>>>> and clashed with police during demonstrations continuing into a 14th
>>>> week amid a deadlock in negotiations.
>>>> Fines for breaches of the two laws range from $500 to $250,000. An
>>>> exception to the no-mask rule, however, is allowed for the Halloween
>>>> holiday.
>>>> Students, unions and the opposition party criticized the government
>>>> over the emergency law, with one former premier calling it
>>>> “barbaric.”
>>>> Louis Masson, president of the Quebec Bar Association representing
>>>> 24,000 lawyers, said it goes too far by restricting fundamental
>>>> “freedoms of expression… to a point that begs the question, who would
>>>> now dare protest.”
>>>> Before the emergency law was unveiled, a majority of Quebecers had
>>>> backed the government on the need for a hike in school fees of more
>>>> than $1,700 to help reduce a budget deficit.
>>>> But many also said Quebec Premier Jean Charest had mismanaged the
>>>> crisis, according to polls.
>>>> The student demonstrations culminated Monday with the resignation of
>>>> Quebec’s education minister and rising political star, Line
>>>> Beauchamp, following a standoff when 165,000 students rejected a
>>>> tentative deal last week to stretch tuition hike over seven years
>>>> instead of five.
>>>> “When laws are unjust, sometimes you have to disregard them, and
>>>> we’re seriously thinking about this now,” student leader Gabriel
>>>> Nadeau-Dubois said about the emergency measure.
>>> The students only brought this upon themselves. They had a simple
>>> grievance that could've easily been solved, which the government
>>> managed to find a way to deal with when they originally arrived at
>>> half-a-dozen very sensible proposals, but then students wanted none of
>>> the reasonable offerings, they simply demanded more, and kept
>>> demanding more, going beyond their original grievance. It's like they
>>> became drunk by their own protesting ability and lost sight of what
>>> they were complaining about in the first place. I sided with them at
>>> the beginning with some of their issues but thought their griping over
>>> tuition fees was idiotic - Quebec's fees are the lowest in North
>>> America, almost insanely so. But the government agreed to spread out
>>> the increases to seven years instead of five, to minimize the annual
>>> increases, which would've been only a few hundred bucks extra per year
>>> and all the students had to do was save an extra buck a day to afford
>>> that increase. But noooooo, that would be toooo haaaarrrrddd for them
>>> to do. Anyway, the government then came up with another set of
>>> proposals that went beyond their original set and again they were all
>>> very reasonable sounding. This time the student leadership accepted,
>>> but the rank and file outrightly rejected it, with no explanation as
>>> to why. So clearly, the students have gotten out of hand, verging on
>>> anarchy, and the government had little choice but to try to control
>>> the situation by passing the law, which most people favor since
>>> they're already fed up with these rebels without a cause. This is a
>>> clear-cut example of the difference between constructive protest and
>>> destructive protest, with the former yielding results and solutions
>>> and the latter resorting to restrictive laws. At this point, it's not
>>> at all certain as to how this'll all be resolved, but one can only
>>> hope the students end up at their parents' cottages for the summer or,
>>> better yet, get a job in the real world so they could afford their
>>> tiny tuition hikes and get off the streets already.
>>Right or wrong, I think the government response is a serious mistake and
>>reflects poorly on Quebec. How would you feel if the folks in Toronto
>>--
>>or Ottawa -- passed similar measures?
> After the last OWS riot in Seattle they need a similar law.
If any OWS were involved. It's pretty stupid to stage a stunt like that the day before a major demonstration is planned, and I strongly doubt anyone in OWS was involved with it. But it plays SO WELL into the hands of corporate interests, don't you think?
Let's see how many demonstrators get beaten to a pulp and slammed into prison over the weekend in Chicago. I wonder if they'll shut down the social media like they tried to do in Cairo.
