The Republicans have been holding a convention to nominate him for president! I am telling you this on the off chance that you haven't been paying attention. Perhaps you feel as if you've already met Mitt Romney and don't require another introduction. Perhaps you feel as if you've met him a lot. But this is entirely different because the party's mission this week is to construct an entirely new, improved, warmer, more lovable version.
They built this Romney!
"We built it" is one of the themes here, at the government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
Even before the speeches began, before Tim Pawlenty compared the president to a tattoo or the governor of Ohio, John Kasich, accused Joe Biden of being a bad golfer, the magnitude of the Romney renovation challenge was clear. This wasn't going to be one of those quickie home makeovers you see on TV, where a couple goes away for the weekend and comes back to discover that they have a large, new picture window and a totally open kitchen floor plan.
The folks who spoke during the first two days of the three-day convention were supposed to do foundation work, preparing the public to regard the presidential candidate who emerged on Thursday night as a kindly dad or a favored sibling who's always such great company when you're feeling down.
They failed completely. It was as if, instead of fixing up the targeted house, the renovators decided to do some engine work on a recreational vehicle parked three blocks down the road.
Some of the speakers tried to divert the crowd with fancy rhetoric. Who will ever forget the way Paul Ryan said America was getting the runaround and needs a turnaround?
Some tried being counterintuitive. Mike Huckabee, in an interview before his speech, compared Mitt to a nasty doctor. "If you've just been diagnosed with a brain tumor, you honestly don't care if your neurosurgeon is a jerk," he told Howard Kurtz of The Daily Beast.
The challenge of giving their presidential candidate a heartwarming back story was apparently too much for many of the speakers, who decided to describe their own humble roots instead. Gov. Chris Christie talked about his mother. Ryan brought up his father, mother and grandmother. Rick Santorum told the story about his coal miner grandfather's hands again. Huckabee dropped the names of his grandchildren.
We may never figure out the inner life of the Republican presidential candidate. But we are going into the fall campaign knowing a whole lot more about the relatives of major Republican office holders.
Ann Romney, poor woman, was left stuck with the entire burden of the convention's yearning for a candidate remake. It turns out that her grandfather was a coal miner, too! It is possible that the only person in the entire city of Tampa this week who does not have a coal miner in the family tree is Mitt.
"Tonight I want to talk to you about love," she said. The critical point was that Ann loves Mitt and Mitt loves America. What could be better than that? Then, half an hour later, Governor Christie decreed that respect trumps love. If these people can't even decide where love ranks on their to-do list, you can appreciate why they found it impossible to get together to build a new presidential candidate.
Although she was assigned to paint a picture of the Mitt Romney we have never seen and suspect does not exist, his wife's remarks were remarkably short on specifics. She did have a story about their humble early married life, which involved a brief period in college when they were forced to consume "a lot of pasta and tuna fish."
Ann assured the crowd that her husband had spent "countless hours helping others," and although that was pretty vague, we do have other accounts of his good deeds, mainly for fellow parishioners at church. She also seemed intent on telling us that he's a fun guy, full of Mittwit, but she failed to provide any examples of fun that were actually funny. The take-away image of Mitt Romney, Neighbor, was less George Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life" than Ned Flanders in "The Simpsons."
The best humanizing story about a robotic presidential candidate I can remember was the one John Kerry's daughters told about how Kerry had saved their hamster Licorice from a "watery doom" by diving off a dock, retrieving the animal and administering CPR. And, actually, that didn't work out so well.
They'll make do with what they've got. One thing's for sure: nobody in Tampa is all that interested in talking about Mitt Romney interacting with pets.
--
"We've given all you people need to know."
What is Romney hiding?
Anne Romney's arrogance?
> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire? Or perhaps George Soros? John Kerry? Al Gore? Sara Jessica Parker?
George Clooney?
Cher?
Barbara Streisand?
I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
-- I do not want a President who is really rich. The rich are out of touch...Unless their last name is Kennedy, Obama or Kerry, or they run as a Democrat.
>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
>> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
> Or perhaps George Soros?
> John Kerry?
> Al Gore?
> Sara Jessica Parker?
> George Clooney?
> Cher?
> Barbara Streisand?
> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
.
.
.
Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew Research Poll
Morgan Korn | Daily Ticker 3 hours ago
Income inequality has become a familiar theme in this presidential election and the majority of Americans believe the growing wealth divide is "a bad thing" for the country, according to a new report by the Pew Research Center.
Kim Parker, an associate director at the Center and lead author of the report, polled more than 2,500 Americans last month about tax rates, social class and partisan biases. She found that wealthy Americans may be vilified by their societal peers but they're also viewed as more intelligent and hardworking. Parker joined The Daily Ticker to discuss the findings and what they imply about the state of America today.
America's View of The Rich
The Pew report found that many Americans view the rich differently than other people. An overwhelming majority of Americans (those who describe themselves as either middle-or-lower income) say that they admire people who get rich by working hard but they also view the rich as greedier and less honest, according to the survey.
Most Americans defined "wealthy" as an annual income of at least $100,000 for a family of four. The median amount was $150,000 for all respondents and the higher number could be attributed to one's demographic region, current lifestyle and income, according to the report. Forty-nine percent of respondents described themselves as middle class; 32 percent labeled themselves as lower-middle to lower-income class and 17 percent characterized themselves as upper or upper-middle class.
America's View on Taxes
Fifty-eight percent of poll respondents say the rich pay too little in taxes. That number reflects the same attitude as 52 percent of upper or upper-middle class Americans polled. Thirty-seven percent of respondents say lower-income Americans pay too much in taxes and 34 percent believe lower-income Americans pay their fair share. Twenty percent of adults in the survey say lower-income individuals pay too little in taxes.
America's View on Democrats vs. Republicans
The U.S. tax system has been one of the most controversial and polarizing themes in the election cycle and both presidential candidates have offered their own solutions for reforming the byzantine tax code.
Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney's plan would cut taxes across all income classes and President Barack Obama's proposal aims to increase taxes on rich Americans. The Pew survey found that 63 percent of respondents say that the GOP favors the wealthy over the middle class and the poor and 71 percent believe Romney, if elected president, would "be good" for wealthy people. Sixty percent of respondents said Obama's policies would help the poor and 37 percent believe the wealthy would gain an advantage under Obama.
When the responses were tallied based on political affiliation, 55 percent of Republicans say the GOP favors the middle class compared to 26 percent who say their party caters to the rich. Fifty-nine percent of Democrats believe their party tilts toward the middle class and just six percent say it favors the rich.
===============================================
August 29, 2012
Renovating Mitt Romney
By GAIL COLLINS
TAMPA, Fla.
So, about Mitt Romney.
The Republicans have been holding a convention to nominate him for
president! I am telling you this on the off chance that you haven't been
paying attention. Perhaps you feel as if you've already met Mitt Romney and
don't require another introduction. Perhaps you feel as if you've met him a
lot. But this is entirely different because the party's mission this week is
to construct an entirely new, improved, warmer, more lovable version.
They built this Romney!
"We built it" is one of the themes here, at the government-underwritten
convention in a government-subsidized convention center in a city that rose
on the sturdy foundation of government-subsidized flood insurance. But no
taxpayer dollars were expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
Even before the speeches began, before Tim Pawlenty compared the president
to a tattoo or the governor of Ohio, John Kasich, accused Joe Biden of being
a bad golfer, the magnitude of the Romney renovation challenge was clear.
This wasn't going to be one of those quickie home makeovers you see on TV,
where a couple goes away for the weekend and comes back to discover that
they have a large, new picture window and a totally open kitchen floor plan.
The folks who spoke during the first two days of the three-day convention
were supposed to do foundation work, preparing the public to regard the
presidential candidate who emerged on Thursday night as a kindly dad or a
favored sibling who's always such great company when you're feeling down.
They failed completely. It was as if, instead of fixing up the targeted
house, the renovators decided to do some engine work on a recreational
vehicle parked three blocks down the road.
Some of the speakers tried to divert the crowd with fancy rhetoric. Who will
ever forget the way Paul Ryan said America was getting the runaround and
needs a turnaround?
Some tried being counterintuitive. Mike Huckabee, in an interview before his
speech, compared Mitt to a nasty doctor. "If you've just been diagnosed with
a brain tumor, you honestly don't care if your neurosurgeon is a jerk," he
told Howard Kurtz of The Daily Beast.
The challenge of giving their presidential candidate a heartwarming back
story was apparently too much for many of the speakers, who decided to
describe their own humble roots instead. Gov. Chris Christie talked about
his mother. Ryan brought up his father, mother and grandmother. Rick
Santorum told the story about his coal miner grandfather's hands again.
Huckabee dropped the names of his grandchildren.
We may never figure out the inner life of the Republican presidential
candidate. But we are going into the fall campaign knowing a whole lot more
about the relatives of major Republican office holders.
Ann Romney, poor woman, was left stuck with the entire burden of the
convention's yearning for a candidate remake. It turns out that her
grandfather was a coal miner, too! It is possible that the only person in
the entire city of Tampa this week who does not have a coal miner in the
family tree is Mitt.
"Tonight I want to talk to you about love," she said. The critical point was
that Ann loves Mitt and Mitt loves America. What could be better than that?
Then, half an hour later, Governor Christie decreed that respect trumps
love. If these people can't even decide where love ranks on their to-do
list, you can appreciate why they found it impossible to get together to
build a new presidential candidate.
Although she was assigned to paint a picture of the Mitt Romney we have
never seen and suspect does not exist, his wife's remarks were remarkably
short on specifics. She did have a story about their humble early married
life, which involved a brief period in college when they were forced to
consume "a lot of pasta and tuna fish."
Ann assured the crowd that her husband had spent "countless hours helping
others," and although that was pretty vague, we do have other accounts of
his good deeds, mainly for fellow parishioners at church. She also seemed
intent on telling us that he's a fun guy, full of Mittwit, but she failed to
provide any examples of fun that were actually funny. The take-away image of
Mitt Romney, Neighbor, was less George Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life"
than Ned Flanders in "The Simpsons."
The best humanizing story about a robotic presidential candidate I can
remember was the one John Kerry's daughters told about how Kerry had saved
their hamster Licorice from a "watery doom" by diving off a dock, retrieving
the animal and administering CPR. And, actually, that didn't work out so
well.
They'll make do with what they've got. One thing's for sure: nobody in Tampa
is all that interested in talking about Mitt Romney interacting with pets.
--
"We've given all you people need to know."
What is Romney hiding?
Anne Romney's arrogance?
>>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
>>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
>>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
>>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
>>> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
>>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
>> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
>> Or perhaps George Soros?
>> John Kerry?
>> Al Gore?
>> Sara Jessica Parker?
>> George Clooney?
>> Cher?
>> Barbara Streisand?
>> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
> .
> .
> .
> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
> Research Poll
All this does is to demonstrate that people very often have no idea what the facts are.
Sid, if you want to convince rational people that the wealthy are evil, greedy bastards, then provide credible evidence to support that claim. A poll of people's opinions proves nothing.
>>>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
>>>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
>>>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
>>>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
>>>> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
>>>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
>>> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
>>> Or perhaps George Soros?
>>> John Kerry?
>>> Al Gore?
>>> Sara Jessica Parker?
>>> George Clooney?
>>> Cher?
>>> Barbara Streisand?
>>> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
>> Research Poll
> All this does is to demonstrate that people very often have no idea what > the facts are.
> Sid, if you want to convince rational people that the wealthy are evil, > greedy bastards, then provide credible evidence to support that claim. A > poll of people's opinions proves nothing.
.
.
A revelation!
The world is wrong and Hartung is right!
Who would have believed!
>>>>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
>>>>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
>>>>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
>>>>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
>>>>> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
>>>>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
>>>> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
>>>> Or perhaps George Soros?
>>>> John Kerry?
>>>> Al Gore?
>>>> Sara Jessica Parker?
>>>> George Clooney?
>>>> Cher?
>>>> Barbara Streisand?
>>>> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
>>> Research Poll
>> All this does is to demonstrate that people very often have no idea
>> what the facts are.
>> Sid, if you want to convince rational people that the wealthy are
>> evil, greedy bastards, then provide credible evidence to support that
>> claim. A poll of people's opinions proves nothing.
> .
> .
> A revelation!
> The world is wrong and Hartung is right!
> Who would have believed!
And once again you fail to support your claim.
Tell me again how you are so much smarter than the average conservative.
> >>>>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
> >>>>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
> >>>>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
> >>>>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
> >>>>> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
> >>>>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
> >>>> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
> >>>> Or perhaps George Soros?
> >>>> John Kerry?
> >>>> Al Gore?
> >>>> Sara Jessica Parker?
> >>>> George Clooney?
> >>>> Cher?
> >>>> Barbara Streisand?
> >>>> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
> >>> .
> >>> .
> >>> .
> >>> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
> >>> Research Poll
> >> All this does is to demonstrate that people very often have no idea
> >> what the facts are.
> >> Sid, if you want to convince rational people that the wealthy are
> >> evil, greedy bastards, then provide credible evidence to support that
> >> claim. A poll of people's opinions proves nothing.
> > .
> > .
> > A revelation!
> > The world is wrong and Hartung is right!
> > Who would have believed!
> And once again you fail to support your claim.
> Tell me again how you are so much smarter than the average conservative.
How exactly does one prove something as subjective as greed, and dishonesty?
Jeesh David, have you been eating out of the stupidity garden all summer?
-- "[The] debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party's embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don't matter if they result from tax cuts."
-Reagan budget chief David Stockman
>>>>>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
>>>>>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
>>>>>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
>>>>>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
>>>>>> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
>>>>>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
>>>>> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
>>>>> Or perhaps George Soros?
>>>>> John Kerry?
>>>>> Al Gore?
>>>>> Sara Jessica Parker?
>>>>> George Clooney?
>>>>> Cher?
>>>>> Barbara Streisand?
>>>>> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
>>>> Research Poll
>>> All this does is to demonstrate that people very often have no idea
>>> what the facts are.
>>> Sid, if you want to convince rational people that the wealthy are
>>> evil, greedy bastards, then provide credible evidence to support that
>>> claim. A poll of people's opinions proves nothing.
>> .
>> .
>> A revelation!
>> The world is wrong and Hartung is right!
>> Who would have believed!
> And once again you fail to support your claim.
> Tell me again how you are so much smarter than the average conservative.
.
.
.
Dummy, I'm smarter the the average anybody.
Thank the Federal government for your survival today.
Mississippi could not have dome it alone
-- I do not want a President who is really rich. The rich are out of touch...Unless their last name is Kennedy, Obama or Kerry, or they run as a Democrat.
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:54:52 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@ bellsouth.net> wrote:
>"David Hartung" <david@hotma*l.com> wrote in message >news:YYudnfW_CNg2T6LNnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 08/30/2012 03:41 PM, Sid9 wrote:
>>>>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
>>>>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
>>>>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
>>>>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
>>>>> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
>>>>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
>>>> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
>>>> Or perhaps George Soros?
>>>> John Kerry?
>>>> Al Gore?
>>>> Sara Jessica Parker?
>>>> George Clooney?
>>>> Cher?
>>>> Barbara Streisand?
>>>> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
>>> Research Poll
>> All this does is to demonstrate that people very often have no idea what >> the facts are.
>> Sid, if you want to convince rational people that the wealthy are evil, >> greedy bastards, then provide credible evidence to support that claim. A >> poll of people's opinions proves nothing.
>.
>.
>A revelation!
>The world is wrong and Hartung is right!
>Who would have believed!
I would. I have known many rich people,
and I found them to be exceptionally kind and
considerate, and otherwise just fine human
beings.
Your problem is trying to lump everybody
you don't like in one group, and that is always
wrong, it is the way a deceitful politico does
things no matter their station in life.
>>>>>>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
>>>>>>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
>>>>>>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
>>>>>>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
>>>>>>> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
>>>>>>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
>>>>>> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
>>>>>> Or perhaps George Soros?
>>>>>> John Kerry?
>>>>>> Al Gore?
>>>>>> Sara Jessica Parker?
>>>>>> George Clooney?
>>>>>> Cher?
>>>>>> Barbara Streisand?
>>>>>> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
>>>>> .
>>>>> .
>>>>> .
>>>>> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
>>>>> Research Poll
>>>> All this does is to demonstrate that people very often have no idea
>>>> what the facts are.
>>>> Sid, if you want to convince rational people that the wealthy are
>>>> evil, greedy bastards, then provide credible evidence to support that
>>>> claim. A poll of people's opinions proves nothing.
>>> .
>>> .
>>> A revelation!
>>> The world is wrong and Hartung is right!
>>> Who would have believed!
>> And once again you fail to support your claim.
>> Tell me again how you are so much smarter than the average conservative.
> .
> .
> .
> Dummy, I'm smarter the the average anybody.
You're one of the dumbest creatures in the known and unknown universe.
>>> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
>>> Research Poll
>> So the majority of Americans say President Obama is greedy and
>> dishonest - thank God for that.
> So, you're a fucking deceptive idiot and therefore liar.
Ah! We are dealing with an intellectual progressive - who knew?
Let's review the bidding, shall we, Comrade Jo?
1. You made this statement: "Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew Research Poll"
2. Barack Obama is a multi-millionaire.
3. Therefore a majority of Americans Say President Obama is greedy and dishonest.
Thank you for granting me the opportunity to restate your point.
-- If you offer a progressive a penny for his thoughts, don't
forget to ask for change.
>>>>>>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
>>>>>>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
>>>>>>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
>>>>>>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars were
>>>>>>> expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
>>>>>>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
>>>>>> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
>>>>>> Or perhaps George Soros?
>>>>>> John Kerry?
>>>>>> Al Gore?
>>>>>> Sara Jessica Parker?
>>>>>> George Clooney?
>>>>>> Cher?
>>>>>> Barbara Streisand?
>>>>>> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
>>>>> .
>>>>> .
>>>>> .
>>>>> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
>>>>> Research Poll
>>>> All this does is to demonstrate that people very often have no idea
>>>> what the facts are.
>>>> Sid, if you want to convince rational people that the wealthy are
>>>> evil, greedy bastards, then provide credible evidence to support that
>>>> claim. A poll of people's opinions proves nothing.
>>> .
>>> .
>>> A revelation!
>>> The world is wrong and Hartung is right!
>>> Who would have believed!
>> And once again you fail to support your claim.
>> Tell me again how you are so much smarter than the average conservative.
> .
> .
> .
> Dummy, I'm smarter the the average anybody.
>>>>>> "We built it" is one of the themes here, at the
>>>>>> government-underwritten convention in a government-subsidized
>>>>>> convention center in a city that rose on the sturdy foundation of
>>>>>> government-subsidized flood insurance. But no taxpayer dollars
>>>>>> were expended in the attempt to put together a New Mitt.
>>>>>> None. Really, it was just private corporations and rich people.
>>>>> Like Barack Obama, multi-millionaire?
>>>>> Or perhaps George Soros?
>>>>> John Kerry?
>>>>> Al Gore?
>>>>> Sara Jessica Parker?
>>>>> George Clooney?
>>>>> Cher?
>>>>> Barbara Streisand?
>>>>> I love watching progressives bad-mouthing rich people...
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> Majority of Americans Say the Rich Are Greedy and Dishonest: Pew
>>>> Research Poll
>>> All this does is to demonstrate that people very often have no idea
>>> what the facts are.
>>> Sid, if you want to convince rational people that the wealthy are
>>> evil, greedy bastards, then provide credible evidence to support
>>> that claim. A poll of people's opinions proves nothing.
>> .
>> .
>> A revelation!
>> The world is wrong and Hartung is right!
>> Who would have believed!
> And once again you fail to support your claim.
And you failed to support yours.
"Kuwait had a treaty with the USA which required us to come to their defense." David Hartung, 12/30/06. No such treaty ever existed.
> Tell me again how you are so much smarter than the average
> conservative.
Tell us again what makes you smarter than the average liberal.
"I think it safe to say that I am not the only ignorant individual in this newsgroup."
David Hartung, 2/10/08.