Copenhagen
keatin...@gmail.com
couple of friends. No idea what to do when I get there.
Any reccomendations from anyone whos visited Copenhagen before.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Look at all the pretty streets.
Ilya the Recusant
-----------------
"Asshole" has a special place in my childhood, the point at which I
first learned that typical Americans were assholes.
- C&J
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>I'm off to Copenhagen on from Saturday to Tuesday, with my missus and a
>couple of friends. No idea what to do when I get there.
>
>Any reccomendations from anyone whos visited Copenhagen before.
[J] Didn't go to Copenhagen during any of our visit to Denmark, but my
immediate reaction would be to check out the Amalienborg, ie. the
royal castle. Denmark has a long and proud line of kings and queens
that should amount to an interesting tour of the castle.
Also, about 25 km north of Copenhagen lies Rungstedlund, Karen
Blixen's home which has now been turned into a museum. I've been
there, and loved it. Of course, Rungstedlund is only really
interesting if you know who Karen Blixen was and have any interest in
her.
Oh, and of course you can check out the statue of the little mermaid
in the harbour of Copenhagen. See if she has any extremities missing.
C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.
- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 6 Jan 2005 18:42:09 -0800 - there was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >I'm off to Copenhagen on from Saturday to Tuesday, with my missus
and a
> >couple of friends. No idea what to do when I get there.
> >
> >Any reccomendations from anyone whos visited Copenhagen before.
>
> [J] Didn't go to Copenhagen during any of our visit to Denmark, but
my
> immediate reaction would be to check out the Amalienborg, ie. the
> royal castle. Denmark has a long and proud line of kings and queens
> that should amount to an interesting tour of the castle.
Checked it out, not bad. Apparently Denmark is the oldest kingdom in
the world, hmmmmmmmm.
>
> Also, about 25 km north of Copenhagen lies Rungstedlund, Karen
> Blixen's home which has now been turned into a museum. I've been
> there, and loved it. Of course, Rungstedlund is only really
> interesting if you know who Karen Blixen was and have any interest in
> her.
Didn't really leave copenhagen, but as strangly there is a Café in the
Airport named after Karen Blixen. Was vaguely aware of who she was.
> Oh, and of course you can check out the statue of the little mermaid
> in the harbour of Copenhagen. See if she has any extremities missing.
>
>
She was actually intact for a change.
Over all impression of Copenhagen:
Really nice, ultra relaxed, hippy comune in Christiania(sp?)
interesting, everything cost about the same as Dublin( expensive), no
Euro( pain in the arse), windy, would go again but in summer.
1.5 thumbs up.
Brinner
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> [J] Didn't go to Copenhagen during any of our visit to Denmark, but
>> my immediate reaction would be to check out the Amalienborg, ie. the
>> royal castle. Denmark has a long and proud line of kings and queens
>> that should amount to an interesting tour of the castle.
>
>Checked it out, not bad. Apparently Denmark is the oldest kingdom in
>the world, hmmmmmmmm.
[J] So they say. I suppose they mean one that's still a kingdom.
>> Also, about 25 km north of Copenhagen lies Rungstedlund, Karen
>> Blixen's home which has now been turned into a museum. I've been
>> there, and loved it. Of course, Rungstedlund is only really
>> interesting if you know who Karen Blixen was and have any interest in
>> her.
>
>Didn't really leave copenhagen, but as strangly there is a Café in the
>Airport named after Karen Blixen. Was vaguely aware of who she was.
[J] Yeah, she's one of the best known Danish authors, although she
mainly published under a pseudonym. But she's mainly known for being
the woman who Meryl Streep plays in "Out of Africa". Good film. Based
on Blixen's autobiography. "I had a farm in Africa..."
>> Oh, and of course you can check out the statue of the little mermaid
>> in the harbour of Copenhagen. See if she has any extremities missing.
>
>She was actually intact for a change.
[J] Last I heard, they dressed her in a burkha. Danish people are
weird. We just give our famous statue in Helsinki a hat every May Day.
>Over all impression of Copenhagen:
>
>Really nice, ultra relaxed, hippy comune in Christiania(sp?)
>interesting, everything cost about the same as Dublin( expensive), no
>Euro( pain in the arse), windy, would go again but in summer.
>1.5 thumbs up.
[J] Strange thing, I've driven through Denmark six times (always in
summer), and it's *always* windy. Usually rainy too.
But it must get cold on occasion as well. A Swedish king back in the
17th century defeated the Danish in a war by marching his army across
the frozen sea and suddenly appearing at the gates of Copenhagen while
the Danish thought they were safe in the knowledge that they were
separated from the Swedish army by a whole sea.
Ah, their faces must have been a grand sight.
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 16 Jan 2005 02:54:23 -0800 - there
was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> [J] Didn't go to Copenhagen during any of our visit to Denmark,
but
> >> my immediate reaction would be to check out the Amalienborg, ie.
the
> >> royal castle. Denmark has a long and proud line of kings and
queens
> >> that should amount to an interesting tour of the castle.
> >
> >Checked it out, not bad. Apparently Denmark is the oldest kingdom in
> >the world, hmmmmmmmm.
>
> [J] So they say. I suppose they mean one that's still a kingdom.
Thats what i figured.
>
> >> Also, about 25 km north of Copenhagen lies Rungstedlund, Karen
> >> Blixen's home which has now been turned into a museum. I've been
> >> there, and loved it. Of course, Rungstedlund is only really
> >> interesting if you know who Karen Blixen was and have any interest
in
> >> her.
> >
> >Didn't really leave copenhagen, but as strangly there is a Café in
the
> >Airport named after Karen Blixen. Was vaguely aware of who she was.
>
> [J] Yeah, she's one of the best known Danish authors, although she
> mainly published under a pseudonym. But she's mainly known for being
> the woman who Meryl Streep plays in "Out of Africa". Good film. Based
> on Blixen's autobiography. "I had a farm in Africa..."
>
> >> Oh, and of course you can check out the statue of the little
mermaid
> >> in the harbour of Copenhagen. See if she has any extremities
missing.
> >
> >She was actually intact for a change.
>
> [J] Last I heard, they dressed her in a burkha. Danish people are
> weird. We just give our famous statue in Helsinki a hat every May
Day.
To keep the sun off for the summer months? Very civil of you.
> >Over all impression of Copenhagen:
> >
> >Really nice, ultra relaxed, hippy comune in Christiania(sp?)
> >interesting, everything cost about the same as Dublin( expensive),
no
> >Euro( pain in the arse), windy, would go again but in summer.
> >1.5 thumbs up.
>
> [J] Strange thing, I've driven through Denmark six times (always in
> summer), and it's *always* windy. Usually rainy too.
>
> But it must get cold on occasion as well. A Swedish king back in the
> 17th century defeated the Danish in a war by marching his army across
> the frozen sea and suddenly appearing at the gates of Copenhagen
while
> the Danish thought they were safe in the knowledge that they were
> separated from the Swedish army by a whole sea.
Feckin' swedes hah. Can't trust the feckers I say, although people tell
me they're nice when mashed with lots of butter and pepper.
Brinner
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> >Checked it out, not bad. Apparently Denmark is the oldest kingdom in
>> >the world, hmmmmmmmm.
>>
>> [J] So they say. I suppose they mean one that's still a kingdom.
>
>Thats what i figured.
[J] And what a kingdom. Earliest kings include two guys called Harald,
one with the additional name Bluetooth and the other with the extra
name Prettyhair, because he swore not to wash or comb his hair and
beard before he'd achieved something or other, I forget what. They
Vikings had a wicked sense of humour.
>> [J] Last I heard, they dressed her in a burkha. Danish people are
>> weird. We just give our famous statue in Helsinki a hat every May
>> Day.
>
>To keep the sun off for the summer months? Very civil of you.
[J] A student's hat. Then all the students gather around the statue
and get really, really drunk.
>Feckin' swedes hah. Can't trust the feckers I say, although people tell
>me they're nice when mashed with lots of butter and pepper.
[J] They're lying to you, they still taste awful. Bless the potato
that freed us from the yoke of swedes.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>Once upon a time - for example, 24 Jan 2005 08:11:44 -0800 - there was
>this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
>us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
>>> >Checked it out, not bad. Apparently Denmark is the oldest kingdom in
>>> >the world, hmmmmmmmm.
>>>
>>> [J] So they say. I suppose they mean one that's still a kingdom.
>>
>>Thats what i figured.
>
>[J] And what a kingdom. Earliest kings include two guys called Harald,
>one with the additional name Bluetooth and the other with the extra
>name Prettyhair, because he swore not to wash or comb his hair and
>beard before he'd achieved something or other, I forget what. They
>Vikings had a wicked sense of humour.
Hee hee.
Tell us more!
>>> [J] Last I heard, they dressed her in a burkha. Danish people are
>>> weird. We just give our famous statue in Helsinki a hat every May
>>> Day.
>>
>>To keep the sun off for the summer months? Very civil of you.
>
>[J] A student's hat. Then all the students gather around the statue
>and get really, really drunk.
Which statue?
To Mannerheim?
(And we didn't visit the Mannerheim museum. I just realized that.
Gah!)
>>Feckin' swedes hah. Can't trust the feckers I say, although people tell
>>me they're nice when mashed with lots of butter and pepper.
>
>[J] They're lying to you, they still taste awful. Bless the potato
>that freed us from the yoke of swedes.
Shh. Don't egg them on!
>C&J
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>>[J] And what a kingdom. Earliest kings include two guys called Harald,
>>one with the additional name Bluetooth and the other with the extra
>>name Prettyhair, because he swore not to wash or comb his hair and
>>beard before he'd achieved something or other, I forget what. They
>>Vikings had a wicked sense of humour.
>
>Hee hee.
>
>Tell us more!
[J] No.
>>[J] A student's hat. Then all the students gather around the statue
>>and get really, really drunk.
>
>Which statue?
>
>To Mannerheim?
[J] No, the naked chick in the fountain. The one with her ample
backside turned towards the cafeteria that banned the artist in
question from entering.
>(And we didn't visit the Mannerheim museum. I just realized that.
>Gah!)
[J] Yes, I know. Remember I told you it was only open on weekends?
We'll try it next time.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>[J] And what a kingdom. Earliest kings include two guys called Harald,
>>>one with the additional name Bluetooth and the other with the extra
>>>name Prettyhair, because he swore not to wash or comb his hair and
>>>beard before he'd achieved something or other, I forget what. They
>>>Vikings had a wicked sense of humour.
>>
>>Hee hee.
>>
>>Tell us more!
>
>[J] No.
C'mon!
>>>[J] A student's hat. Then all the students gather around the statue
>>>and get really, really drunk.
>>
>>Which statue?
>>
>>To Mannerheim?
>
>[J] No, the naked chick in the fountain. The one with her ample
>backside turned towards the cafeteria that banned the artist in
>question from entering.
I don't remember that statue in question, but I'll have a look at the
photos next time I go back to Boston.
>>(And we didn't visit the Mannerheim museum. I just realized that.
>>Gah!)
>
>[J] Yes, I know. Remember I told you it was only open on weekends?
*grin*
Not really, no.
>We'll try it next time.
Yay!
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 24 Jan 2005 08:11:44 -0800 - there
was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> >Checked it out, not bad. Apparently Denmark is the oldest kingdom
in
> >> >the world, hmmmmmmmm.
> >>
> >> [J] So they say. I suppose they mean one that's still a kingdom.
> >
> >Thats what i figured.
>
> [J] And what a kingdom. Earliest kings include two guys called
Harald,
> one with the additional name Bluetooth and the other with the extra
> name Prettyhair, because he swore not to wash or comb his hair and
> beard before he'd achieved something or other, I forget what. They
> Vikings had a wicked sense of humour.
Strange folk really. Pointy hats and now this.....hmmmm. Although I
don't know if you know but Dublin, Waterford and Limerick in
Ireland(plus a few other places) were originally Viking settlements
that were tolerated by Irish Kings for trade, as long as they didn't
get too uppity. See "Battle of Clontarf" 1014. Short account here
http://nmnm.essortment.com/battleofclonta_rrzi.htm
Ahh the good old days.
> >> [J] Last I heard, they dressed her in a burkha. Danish people are
> >> weird. We just give our famous statue in Helsinki a hat every May
> >> Day.
> >
> >To keep the sun off for the summer months? Very civil of you.
>
> [J] A student's hat. Then all the students gather around the statue
> and get really, really drunk.
God bless those brave students.
> >Feckin' swedes hah. Can't trust the feckers I say, although people
tell
> >me they're nice when mashed with lots of butter and pepper.
>
> [J] They're lying to you, they still taste awful. Bless the potato
> that freed us from the yoke of swedes.
>
Couldn't agree more.
Brinner
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> [J] And what a kingdom. Earliest kings include two guys called Harald,
>> one with the additional name Bluetooth and the other with the extra
>> name Prettyhair, because he swore not to wash or comb his hair and
>> beard before he'd achieved something or other, I forget what. They
>> Vikings had a wicked sense of humour.
>
>Strange folk really. Pointy hats and now this.....hmmmm.
[J] But no horns. That's the first thing I always taught every new
class. No horns.
>Although I
>don't know if you know but Dublin, Waterford and Limerick in
>Ireland(plus a few other places) were originally Viking settlements
>that were tolerated by Irish Kings for trade, as long as they didn't
>get too uppity. See "Battle of Clontarf" 1014. Short account here
>
>http://nmnm.essortment.com/battleofclonta_rrzi.htm
>
>Ahh the good old days.
[J] Clontarf sounds like a funky place to have a battle. In fact,
there's something about the name Clontarf that demands that a battle
take place there. Sort of like Badon Hill.
But I digress. Yes, I knew of Viking involvement in Ireland. I've had
an interest in Vikings ever since my parents took me to a museum in
Oslo when I was six. You can't help but admire a people who left the
harshness of Scandinavia, only to settle on Iceland, Greenland, Orkney
and Shetland.
In other news, we might be going to Copenhagen in a few months. Any
recommendations? *grin*
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 1 Feb 2005 00:36:48 -0800 - there was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> [J] And what a kingdom. Earliest kings include two guys called
Harald,
> >> one with the additional name Bluetooth and the other with the
extra
> >> name Prettyhair, because he swore not to wash or comb his hair and
> >> beard before he'd achieved something or other, I forget what. They
> >> Vikings had a wicked sense of humour.
> >
> >Strange folk really. Pointy hats and now this.....hmmmm.
>
> [J] But no horns. That's the first thing I always taught every new
> class. No horns.
Really? No horns? I'm very disapointed. There really seems to be a lot
of myth surrounding the Vikings though, in school I was taught that
they were always attacking and pillaging early christian monasterys,
turns out it was Irish people doing it........possibly wearing helmets
with horns on them.
>
> >Although I
> >don't know if you know but Dublin, Waterford and Limerick in
> >Ireland(plus a few other places) were originally Viking settlements
> >that were tolerated by Irish Kings for trade, as long as they didn't
> >get too uppity. See "Battle of Clontarf" 1014. Short account here
> >
> >http://nmnm.essortment.com/battleofclonta_rrzi.htm
> >
> >Ahh the good old days.
>
> [J] Clontarf sounds like a funky place to have a battle. In fact,
> there's something about the name Clontarf that demands that a battle
> take place there. Sort of like Badon Hill.
>
> But I digress. Yes, I knew of Viking involvement in Ireland. I've had
> an interest in Vikings ever since my parents took me to a museum in
> Oslo when I was six. You can't help but admire a people who left the
> harshness of Scandinavia, only to settle on Iceland, Greenland,
Orkney
> and Shetland.
Simple folk really.
> In other news, we might be going to Copenhagen in a few months. Any
> recommendations? *grin*
>
Don't drink Carlsberg(the normal one), its piss.
Brinner
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> [J] But no horns. That's the first thing I always taught every new
>> class. No horns.
>
>Really? No horns? I'm very disapointed. There really seems to be a lot
>of myth surrounding the Vikings though, in school I was taught that
>they were always attacking and pillaging early christian monasterys,
>turns out it was Irish people doing it........possibly wearing helmets
>with horns on them.
[J] There is so much crap floating around concerning history it's
incredible. You know the Danish authorities burned more people in the
century after their conversion to Protestantism than the Inquisition
did during its whole damn existence? And that no English lords ever
had the right of prima nocte in Scotland or anywhere else for that
matter?
The story about Vikings having horns comes from eager 18th century
archaeologists. They found some helmets with metallic horns-shaped
protusions in Denmark, and imagination immediately took flight. Later
on it was concluded that this headgear predated the Vikings by about
1500 years, but by that time it was too late.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
>us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
>>> [J] But no horns. That's the first thing I always taught every new
>>> class. No horns.
>>
>>Really? No horns? I'm very disapointed. There really seems to be a lot
>>of myth surrounding the Vikings though, in school I was taught that
>>they were always attacking and pillaging early christian monasterys,
>>turns out it was Irish people doing it........possibly wearing helmets
>>with horns on them.
>
>[J] There is so much crap floating around concerning history it's
>incredible. You know the Danish authorities burned more people in the
>century after their conversion to Protestantism than the Inquisition
>did during its whole damn existence? And that no English lords ever
>had the right of prima nocte in Scotland or anywhere else for that
>matter?
Oh. Throw some history books names at me that mention that, will ya?
>The story about Vikings having horns comes from eager 18th century
>archaeologists. They found some helmets with metallic horns-shaped
>protusions in Denmark, and imagination immediately took flight. Later
>on it was concluded that this headgear predated the Vikings by about
>1500 years, but by that time it was too late.
What book mentions this? Cause now I want to read about what else it
mentions.
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
following stuff:
>>[J] There is so much crap floating around concerning history it's
>>incredible. You know the Danish authorities burned more people in the
>>century after their conversion to Protestantism than the Inquisition
>>did during its whole damn existence? And that no English lords ever
>>had the right of prima nocte in Scotland or anywhere else for that
>>matter?
>
>Oh. Throw some history books names at me that mention that, will ya?
[J] I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you - this was all
something we discussed in class when we had a few lectures on the
myths surrounding the middle ages. Most books about the middle ages
wouldn't mention something like the lack of prima nocte, because most
history books don't have as their premise the debunking of Hollywood
movies.
Perhaps some recently published books on the general topic of the
middle ages could have a chapter or an introduction that lays these
sorts of myths to rest. I'll let you know if I run into any, although
right now I don't have any courses concerning the middle ages.
>>The story about Vikings having horns comes from eager 18th century
>>archaeologists. They found some helmets with metallic horns-shaped
>>protusions in Denmark, and imagination immediately took flight. Later
>>on it was concluded that this headgear predated the Vikings by about
>>1500 years, but by that time it was too late.
>
>What book mentions this? Cause now I want to read about what else it
>mentions.
[J] Any respectable book on Vikings will debunk the horn-myth. The
book where I read about the source of the story is one that I got by
mail-order years and years ago, I don't know if you'd be able to find
it. You can read it next summer when you get here, though, and in the
meantime, visit your uni library for some general book on the Vikings.
There'll be lots, it's a popular subject.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>[J] There is so much crap floating around concerning history it's
>>>incredible. You know the Danish authorities burned more people in the
>>>century after their conversion to Protestantism than the Inquisition
>>>did during its whole damn existence? And that no English lords ever
>>>had the right of prima nocte in Scotland or anywhere else for that
>>>matter?
>>
>>Oh. Throw some history books names at me that mention that, will ya?
>
>[J] I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you - this was all
>something we discussed in class when we had a few lectures on the
>myths surrounding the middle ages. Most books about the middle ages
>wouldn't mention something like the lack of prima nocte, because most
>history books don't have as their premise the debunking of Hollywood
>movies.
>
>Perhaps some recently published books on the general topic of the
>middle ages could have a chapter or an introduction that lays these
>sorts of myths to rest. I'll let you know if I run into any, although
>right now I don't have any courses concerning the middle ages.
Ooh. Thanks.
Because when we discuss the United Provinces, it's usually in the
context of "Oh, Spinoza lived there!" and a bit relating to Calvin
(the body count tends not to be included) and the finance wars between
France, England and the U.P. in the early 18th century.
>>>The story about Vikings having horns comes from eager 18th century
>>>archaeologists. They found some helmets with metallic horns-shaped
>>>protusions in Denmark, and imagination immediately took flight. Later
>>>on it was concluded that this headgear predated the Vikings by about
>>>1500 years, but by that time it was too late.
>>
>>What book mentions this? Cause now I want to read about what else it
>>mentions.
>
>[J] Any respectable book on Vikings will debunk the horn-myth. The
>book where I read about the source of the story is one that I got by
>mail-order years and years ago, I don't know if you'd be able to find
>it. You can read it next summer when you get here, though, and in the
>meantime, visit your uni library for some general book on the Vikings.
>There'll be lots, it's a popular subject.
*grin*
I'll have to look into that. So who actually did wear the horn-shaped
hats? What culture, rather. Geats?
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 2 Feb 2005 14:06:12 -0800 - there was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> [J] But no horns. That's the first thing I always taught every new
> >> class. No horns.
> >
> >Really? No horns? I'm very disapointed. There really seems to be a
lot
> >of myth surrounding the Vikings though, in school I was taught that
> >they were always attacking and pillaging early christian monasterys,
> >turns out it was Irish people doing it........possibly wearing
helmets
> >with horns on them.
>
> [J] There is so much crap floating around concerning history it's
> incredible. You know the Danish authorities burned more people in the
> century after their conversion to Protestantism than the Inquisition
> did during its whole damn existence? And that no English lords ever
> had the right of prima nocte in Scotland or anywhere else for that
> matter?
Good to know.
> The story about Vikings having horns comes from eager 18th century
> archaeologists. They found some helmets with metallic horns-shaped
> protusions in Denmark, and imagination immediately took flight. Later
> on it was concluded that this headgear predated the Vikings by about
> 1500 years, but by that time it was too late.
>
Did those 18th century archaeologists happen to be German?
Brinner
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>Ooh. Thanks.
>
>Because when we discuss the United Provinces, it's usually in the
>context of "Oh, Spinoza lived there!" and a bit relating to Calvin
>(the body count tends not to be included) and the finance wars between
>France, England and the U.P. in the early 18th century.
[J] Well, the problem with history is that there tends to be so very
very much of it. Even when you're actually studying history, you have
to read a lot on your own.
>>[J] Any respectable book on Vikings will debunk the horn-myth. The
>>book where I read about the source of the story is one that I got by
>>mail-order years and years ago, I don't know if you'd be able to find
>>it. You can read it next summer when you get here, though, and in the
>>meantime, visit your uni library for some general book on the Vikings.
>>There'll be lots, it's a popular subject.
>
>*grin*
>
>I'll have to look into that. So who actually did wear the horn-shaped
>hats? What culture, rather. Geats?
[J] *shrug* Bronze-age Danes. Don't know if there'd be a special name
for to culture, apart from bronze-age Scandinavians. The Geats were
just a tribe of Swedes. Götar. Specifically, living on the island of
Gotland.
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> [J] There is so much crap floating around concerning history it's
>> incredible. You know the Danish authorities burned more people in the
>> century after their conversion to Protestantism than the Inquisition
>> did during its whole damn existence? And that no English lords ever
>> had the right of prima nocte in Scotland or anywhere else for that
>> matter?
>
>Good to know.
[J] I'd think the Scots would feel so as well.
>> The story about Vikings having horns comes from eager 18th century
>> archaeologists. They found some helmets with metallic horns-shaped
>> protusions in Denmark, and imagination immediately took flight. Later
>> on it was concluded that this headgear predated the Vikings by about
>> 1500 years, but by that time it was too late.
>
>Did those 18th century archaeologists happen to be German?
[J] Probably not, but I'm sure that the German artists of the romantic
period borrowed those same images - the Germanic people were related
to the Vikings, after all - when Neuschwannstein needed to get its
interior decoration.
What I want to know is, why does Obelix have a helmet with horns?
Stijn Arnauts
"Chucky & Janica" <janica...@kolumbus.finland> schreef in bericht
news:m72f019qer20tb15v...@4ax.com...
To catch the romans Asterix throws in the air on? The real question is,
how does he keep it clean after use?
Stijn Arnauts
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 6 Feb 2005 15:25:35 -0800 - there was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> [J] There is so much crap floating around concerning history it's
> >> incredible. You know the Danish authorities burned more people in
the
> >> century after their conversion to Protestantism than the
Inquisition
> >> did during its whole damn existence? And that no English lords
ever
> >> had the right of prima nocte in Scotland or anywhere else for that
> >> matter?
> >
> >Good to know.
>
> [J] I'd think the Scots would feel so as well.
I gave up caring what the Scots thought years ago.
>
> >> The story about Vikings having horns comes from eager 18th century
> >> archaeologists. They found some helmets with metallic horns-shaped
> >> protusions in Denmark, and imagination immediately took flight.
Later
> >> on it was concluded that this headgear predated the Vikings by
about
> >> 1500 years, but by that time it was too late.
> >
> >Did those 18th century archaeologists happen to be German?
>
> [J] Probably not, but I'm sure that the German artists of the
romantic
> period borrowed those same images - the Germanic people were related
> to the Vikings, after all - when Neuschwannstein needed to get its
> interior decoration.
> What I want to know is, why does Obelix have a helmet with horns?
Cause the helmet maker ran out of wings.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>Ooh. Thanks.
>>
>>Because when we discuss the United Provinces, it's usually in the
>>context of "Oh, Spinoza lived there!" and a bit relating to Calvin
>>(the body count tends not to be included) and the finance wars between
>>France, England and the U.P. in the early 18th century.
>
>[J] Well, the problem with history is that there tends to be so very
>very much of it. Even when you're actually studying history, you have
>to read a lot on your own.
Which is why I tend to get very annoyed with survey course books for
history classes. I know they're supposed to give a general sense of
history, but the problem is that they tend to do so at the expense of
explaining the context of things, and how they happened.
So we read about 18th century Europe, and then suddenly, Peter the
Great is brought up. But how he came into power, and what he did? None
of that.
I think they're looking for some kind of...theme...or motif or
something, that they (some historians) can point to and say "See?
That's Western! Right there!"
>>>[J] Any respectable book on Vikings will debunk the horn-myth. The
>>>book where I read about the source of the story is one that I got by
>>>mail-order years and years ago, I don't know if you'd be able to find
>>>it. You can read it next summer when you get here, though, and in the
>>>meantime, visit your uni library for some general book on the Vikings.
>>>There'll be lots, it's a popular subject.
>>
>>*grin*
>>
>>I'll have to look into that. So who actually did wear the horn-shaped
>>hats? What culture, rather. Geats?
>
>[J] *shrug* Bronze-age Danes. Don't know if there'd be a special name
>for to culture, apart from bronze-age Scandinavians. The Geats were
>just a tribe of Swedes. G?tar. Specifically, living on the island of
>Gotland.
Hum. I'll look into that; I've A History of Denmark by Palle Lauring
that has a funny intro.
'A couple of years ago I told an English friend that I was thinking of
writing a history of Denmark for English readers, and his comment was:
"That's very nice of you - but why bother?"
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
>us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>What I want to know is, why does Obelix have a helmet with horns?
Because it looks good on him?
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>>[J] Well, the problem with history is that there tends to be so very
>>very much of it. Even when you're actually studying history, you have
>>to read a lot on your own.
>
>Which is why I tend to get very annoyed with survey course books for
>history classes. I know they're supposed to give a general sense of
>history, but the problem is that they tend to do so at the expense of
>explaining the context of things, and how they happened.
>
>So we read about 18th century Europe, and then suddenly, Peter the
>Great is brought up. But how he came into power, and what he did? None
>of that.
[J] Then either your professors are assigning you bad books, or
Peter's methods of coming to power are immaterial, or then they're
trusting you to know all that already.
>>[J] *shrug* Bronze-age Danes. Don't know if there'd be a special name
>>for to culture, apart from bronze-age Scandinavians. The Geats were
>>just a tribe of Swedes. G?tar. Specifically, living on the island of
>>Gotland.
>
>Hum. I'll look into that; I've A History of Denmark by Palle Lauring
>that has a funny intro.
>
>'A couple of years ago I told an English friend that I was thinking of
>writing a history of Denmark for English readers, and his comment was:
>"That's very nice of you - but why bother?"
[J] I bet his friend didn't know that Englad was ruled from Denmark at
one point.
Chucky & Janica
was this guy, or something, called "Stijn Arnauts"
<stijn....@pandora.be>, and they made us all feel better by saying
the following stuff:
>> [J] Probably not, but I'm sure that the German artists of the romantic
>> period borrowed those same images - the Germanic people were related
>> to the Vikings, after all - when Neuschwannstein needed to get its
>> interior decoration.
>>
>> What I want to know is, why does Obelix have a helmet with horns?
>
>To catch the romans Asterix throws in the air on? The real question is,
>how does he keep it clean after use?
[J] He has a special boarskin polishing cloth.
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> >Good to know.
>>
>> [J] I'd think the Scots would feel so as well.
>
>I gave up caring what the Scots thought years ago.
[J] Good good. Never trust a people that set up a statue to Mel
Gibson. Or William Wallace, or whoever that atrocity is supposed to
be.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>[J] Well, the problem with history is that there tends to be so very
>>>very much of it. Even when you're actually studying history, you have
>>>to read a lot on your own.
>>
>>Which is why I tend to get very annoyed with survey course books for
>>history classes. I know they're supposed to give a general sense of
>>history, but the problem is that they tend to do so at the expense of
>>explaining the context of things, and how they happened.
>>
>>So we read about 18th century Europe, and then suddenly, Peter the
>>Great is brought up. But how he came into power, and what he did? None
>>of that.
>
>[J] Then either your professors are assigning you bad books, or
>Peter's methods of coming to power are immaterial, or then they're
>trusting you to know all that already.
They're bad books.
Byzantine isn't part of the west. I told a friend about this who's a
history major, and I kept prodding at him, until the conversation came
to:
"So basically what you're saying is: Western Civilisation is based on
conquering others. So Byzantine not really setting out to conquer
others makes it Not Western, thus somehow Eastern."
"Essentially yes."
"That's retarded!"
"Hey, I'm just explaining it!"
>>>[J] *shrug* Bronze-age Danes. Don't know if there'd be a special name
>>>for to culture, apart from bronze-age Scandinavians. The Geats were
>>>just a tribe of Swedes. G?tar. Specifically, living on the island of
>>>Gotland.
>>
>>Hum. I'll look into that; I've A History of Denmark by Palle Lauring
>>that has a funny intro.
>>
>>'A couple of years ago I told an English friend that I was thinking of
>>writing a history of Denmark for English readers, and his comment was:
>>"That's very nice of you - but why bother?"
>
>[J] I bet his friend didn't know that Englad was ruled from Denmark at
>one point.
*grin*
It's so easy to forget. What with uhm. I don't know. It's easy to
forget. MTV.
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:34:06 +0100 -
there
> was this guy, or something, called "Stijn Arnauts"
> <stijn....@pandora.be>, and they made us all feel better by
saying
> the following stuff:
>
> >> [J] Probably not, but I'm sure that the German artists of the
romantic
> >> period borrowed those same images - the Germanic people were
related
> >> to the Vikings, after all - when Neuschwannstein needed to get its
> >> interior decoration.
> >>
> >> What I want to know is, why does Obelix have a helmet with horns?
> >
> >To catch the romans Asterix throws in the air on? The real question
is,
> >how does he keep it clean after use?
>
> [J] He has a special boarskin polishing cloth.
>
Bought from someone called Shinalotix.
Brinner
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> >> What I want to know is, why does Obelix have a helmet with horns?
>> >
>> >To catch the romans Asterix throws in the air on? The real question
>is,
>> >how does he keep it clean after use?
>>
>> [J] He has a special boarskin polishing cloth.
>
>Bought from someone called Shinalotix.
*snicker*
Nice.
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>>[J] Then either your professors are assigning you bad books, or
>>Peter's methods of coming to power are immaterial, or then they're
>>trusting you to know all that already.
>
>They're bad books.
>
>Byzantine isn't part of the west. I told a friend about this who's a
>history major, and I kept prodding at him, until the conversation came
>to:
>
>"So basically what you're saying is: Western Civilisation is based on
>conquering others. So Byzantine not really setting out to conquer
>others makes it Not Western, thus somehow Eastern."
>
>"Essentially yes."
>
>"That's retarded!"
>
>"Hey, I'm just explaining it!"
[J] Since Byzantine was essentially the Eastern half of Rome, and Rome
was very much built on conquering others, this smells like bullshit to
me.
But these are the same people who will claim in all sincerity that
Turkey has no cultural or political ties to Europe.
>>>'A couple of years ago I told an English friend that I was thinking of
>>>writing a history of Denmark for English readers, and his comment was:
>>>"That's very nice of you - but why bother?"
>>
>>[J] I bet his friend didn't know that Englad was ruled from Denmark at
>>one point.
>
>*grin*
>
>It's so easy to forget. What with uhm. I don't know. It's easy to
>forget. MTV.
[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>[J] Then either your professors are assigning you bad books, or
>>>Peter's methods of coming to power are immaterial, or then they're
>>>trusting you to know all that already.
>>
>>They're bad books.
>>
>>Byzantine isn't part of the west. I told a friend about this who's a
>>history major, and I kept prodding at him, until the conversation came
>>to:
>>
>>"So basically what you're saying is: Western Civilisation is based on
>>conquering others. So Byzantine not really setting out to conquer
>>others makes it Not Western, thus somehow Eastern."
>>
>>"Essentially yes."
>>
>>"That's retarded!"
>>
>>"Hey, I'm just explaining it!"
>
>[J] Since Byzantine was essentially the Eastern half of Rome, and Rome
>was very much built on conquering others, this smells like bullshit to
>me.
>
>But these are the same people who will claim in all sincerity that
>Turkey has no cultural or political ties to Europe.
I'll quote the survey text we use.
"Since the Western Heritage first appeared, we have sought to provide
our readers with a work that does justice to the richness and variety
of Western civilisation. We hope that such an understanding of the
West will foster lively debate about its character, values,
institutions, and global influence. INdeed, we believe that such a
critical outlook on their own culture has characterised the peoples of
the Wester since its earliest history. Through such debates we define
ourselvea and the values of our culture."
Then there's the goals of the text:
"Our primary goal has been to present a strong, clear, narrative
account of the central developments in western history. We have also
sought to call attention to certain critical themes:
1. The capacity of Western civilisation from the time of the Greeks to
the present to transform itself through self-criticism.
2. The development in the West of political freedom, constitutional
government, and concern for the rule of law and individual rights.
3. The shifting relations among religion, society and the state.
4. The development of science and technology and their expanding
impact on Western thought, social institutions and every day life.
5. The major religious and intellectual currents that have shaped
Western culture.
We believe these themes have been fundamental in Western civilisation,
shaping the past and exerting a continuing influence on the present.
- Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
Eight Edition
Donald Kagan, Steven Ozment, Frank M. Turner
You can tell exactly what the editors of this book happen to think
Western Civilisation means, I think, pretty clearly with this
paragraph.
"Western Society and the Developing Christian Church"
Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
decline during the fith and sixth centuries. As trade waned, cities
rapidly fell on hard times, depriving the West of centres for the
exchange of goods and ideas that would enabled it to look and live
beyond itself.
The preceeding paragraph is entitled "The Western Debt to Islamic
Culture."
(both from page 205)
>>>>'A couple of years ago I told an English friend that I was thinking of
>>>>writing a history of Denmark for English readers, and his comment was:
>>>>"That's very nice of you - but why bother?"
>>>
>>>[J] I bet his friend didn't know that Englad was ruled from Denmark at
>>>one point.
>>
>>*grin*
>>
>>It's so easy to forget. What with uhm. I don't know. It's easy to
>>forget. MTV.
>
>[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
And it only gets worse.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
education and health.
More money to war, and less to education.
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>>[J] Since Byzantine was essentially the Eastern half of Rome, and Rome
>>was very much built on conquering others, this smells like bullshit to
>>me.
>>
>>But these are the same people who will claim in all sincerity that
>>Turkey has no cultural or political ties to Europe.
>
>I'll quote the survey text we use.
> - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
[J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>"Western Society and the Developing Christian Church"
>
>Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
>Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
>decline during the fith and sixth centuries.
[J] Fucking *what*? There was no strong islamic presence in the
Mediterranean in the fifth and sixth centuries. Mohammed fled to
Medina in 622, for fuck's sake.
>>>It's so easy to forget. What with uhm. I don't know. It's easy to
>>>forget. MTV.
>>
>>[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
>
>And it only gets worse.
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
>
>The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
>affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
>education and health.
>
>More money to war, and less to education.
[J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
Sheesh.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>[J] Since Byzantine was essentially the Eastern half of Rome, and Rome
>>>was very much built on conquering others, this smells like bullshit to
>>>me.
>>>
>>>But these are the same people who will claim in all sincerity that
>>>Turkey has no cultural or political ties to Europe.
>>
>>I'll quote the survey text we use.
>
>> - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>
>[J] This sounds like a terrible book.
Oh, it is.
Take chapter 10 for example.
"By the late fifteenth century, Germany was hopeless divided into some
three hundred autonomous political entities." (pg.336)
or this
"It was in the cities and territories of still feudal, fractionalised,
backward Germany that the Protestant Reformation broke out in the
sixteenth century." (pg.337)
They take digs at Germany whenever possible.
>>"Western Society and the Developing Christian Church"
>>
>>Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
>>Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
>>decline during the fith and sixth centuries.
>
>[J] Fucking *what*? There was no strong islamic presence in the
>Mediterranean in the fifth and sixth centuries. Mohammed fled to
>Medina in 622, for fuck's sake.
See?
They're awful books. I didn't know this when I purchased them (for
uni), but then I sat down and started reading, and realised "Thank
FUCK I didn't make any markings or dog-tags in the 2nd volume. I can
still return that one and get some money back!"
>>>>It's so easy to forget. What with uhm. I don't know. It's easy to
>>>>forget. MTV.
>>>
>>>[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
>>
>>And it only gets worse.
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
>>
>>The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
>>affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
>>education and health.
>>
>>More money to war, and less to education.
>
>[J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
>to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
>
>Sheesh.
My conclusion of these books was: "The Judeo-Christian way of life is
what we call Western Civilisation. No Muslims allowed in our club."
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:52:47 -0500 -
> there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
> <q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
> following stuff:
>
> >>[J] Since Byzantine was essentially the Eastern half of Rome, and
Rome
> >>was very much built on conquering others, this smells like bullshit
to
> >>me.
> >>
> >>But these are the same people who will claim in all sincerity that
> >>Turkey has no cultural or political ties to Europe.
> >
> >I'll quote the survey text we use.
>
> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>
> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
It really does.
>
> >"Western Society and the Developing Christian Church"
> >
> >Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
> >Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
> >decline during the fith and sixth centuries.
>
> [J] Fucking *what*? There was no strong islamic presence in the
> Mediterranean in the fifth and sixth centuries. Mohammed fled to
> Medina in 622, for fuck's sake.
Language Janica. Although I have to agree here, that is some serious
inaccuracy.
>
> >>>It's so easy to forget. What with uhm. I don't know. It's easy to
> >>>forget. MTV.
> >>
> >>[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
> >
> >And it only gets worse.
> >
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
> >
> >The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
> >affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
> >education and health.
> >
> >More money to war, and less to education.
>
> [J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
> to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
>
Compressed air is best for Muslims, helium for Jews, Nitrogeon for
Orthodox christians, Hydrogeon for Buddhists(they're serene enough to
handle it, don't worry) and Argon for Catholics. So my latest research
tells me anyway.
Brinner
keatin...@gmail.com
What exactly constitutes Western?
>
> Then there's the goals of the text:
>
> "Our primary goal has been to present a strong, clear, narrative
> account of the central developments in western history. We have also
> sought to call attention to certain critical themes:
>
> 1. The capacity of Western civilisation from the time of the Greeks
to
> the present to transform itself through self-criticism.
>
> 2. The development in the West of political freedom, constitutional
> government, and concern for the rule of law and individual rights.
>
> 3. The shifting relations among religion, society and the state.
>
> 4. The development of science and technology and their expanding
> impact on Western thought, social institutions and every day life.
>
> 5. The major religious and intellectual currents that have shaped
> Western culture.
>
> We believe these themes have been fundamental in Western
civilisation,
> shaping the past and exerting a continuing influence on the present.
Noble sentiments, but I'll be fucked if I accept there is such a thing
as a "Western culture".
> - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>
> Eight Edition
>
> Donald Kagan, Steven Ozment, Frank M. Turner
>
> You can tell exactly what the editors of this book happen to think
> Western Civilisation means, I think, pretty clearly with this
> paragraph.
>
> "Western Society and the Developing Christian Church"
>
> Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
> Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
> decline during the fith and sixth centuries. As trade waned, cities
> rapidly fell on hard times, depriving the West of centres for the
> exchange of goods and ideas that would enabled it to look and live
> beyond itself.
What Janica said.
> The preceeding paragraph is entitled "The Western Debt to Islamic
> Culture."
>
> (both from page 205)
>
> >>>>'A couple of years ago I told an English friend that I was
thinking of
> >>>>writing a history of Denmark for English readers, and his comment
was:
> >>>>"That's very nice of you - but why bother?"
> >>>
> >>>[J] I bet his friend didn't know that Englad was ruled from
Denmark at
> >>>one point.
> >>
> >>*grin*
> >>
> >>It's so easy to forget. What with uhm. I don't know. It's easy to
> >>forget. MTV.
> >
> >[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
>
> And it only gets worse.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
>
> The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
> affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
> education and health.
>
> More money to war, and less to education.
I think George W. has been playing too much "Age of Empires" or
"Warcraft" or some other dodgy game.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
>
>Chucky & Janica wrote:
>> Once upon a time - for example, Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:52:47 -0500 -
>> there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
>> <q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>> following stuff:
>>
>> >>[J] Since Byzantine was essentially the Eastern half of Rome, and
>Rome
>> >>was very much built on conquering others, this smells like bullshit
>to
>> >>me.
>> >>
>> >>But these are the same people who will claim in all sincerity that
>> >>Turkey has no cultural or political ties to Europe.
>> >
>> >I'll quote the survey text we use.
>>
>> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>>
>> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>
>It really does.
It's ... decent for a simple historical survey. But not beyond that.
>>
>> >"Western Society and the Developing Christian Church"
>> >
>> >Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
>> >Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
>> >decline during the fith and sixth centuries.
>>
>> [J] Fucking *what*? There was no strong islamic presence in the
>> Mediterranean in the fifth and sixth centuries. Mohammed fled to
>> Medina in 622, for fuck's sake.
>
>Language Janica. Although I have to agree here, that is some serious
>inaccuracy.
*shrug*
It's a good litmus test of just the rest of the books are like.
>> >>>It's so easy to forget. What with uhm. I don't know. It's easy to
>> >>>forget. MTV.
>> >>
>> >>[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
>> >
>> >And it only gets worse.
>> >
>> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
>> >
>> >The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
>> >affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
>> >education and health.
>> >
>> >More money to war, and less to education.
>>
>> [J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
>> to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
>>
>
>Compressed air is best for Muslims, helium for Jews, Nitrogeon for
>Orthodox christians, Hydrogeon for Buddhists(they're serene enough to
>handle it, don't worry) and Argon for Catholics. So my latest research
>tells me anyway.
What do Athiests get? A beer?
>Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Fuck if I know. I'm not in a position to make any kind of wild
judgemental conclusions. I am, however, able to say that I feel
extremely awkward whenever I hear these things.
From what I've determined, Western means:
Notions of democracy and individuality, divisions of church and state,
bottom-up (grassroots) movements, and uh...whatever it said was
Western in that long previous post I typed up.
And I don't know if it means anything, but two of the three editors of
this book have Jewish family names, and one of them is related to
Robert Kagan, a well-known figure in the Neo-Con world.
>> Then there's the goals of the text:
>>
>> "Our primary goal has been to present a strong, clear, narrative
>> account of the central developments in western history. We have also
>> sought to call attention to certain critical themes:
>>
>> 1. The capacity of Western civilisation from the time of the Greeks
>to
>> the present to transform itself through self-criticism.
>>
>> 2. The development in the West of political freedom, constitutional
>> government, and concern for the rule of law and individual rights.
>>
>> 3. The shifting relations among religion, society and the state.
>>
>> 4. The development of science and technology and their expanding
>> impact on Western thought, social institutions and every day life.
>>
>> 5. The major religious and intellectual currents that have shaped
>> Western culture.
>>
>> We believe these themes have been fundamental in Western
>civilisation,
>> shaping the past and exerting a continuing influence on the present.
>
>Noble sentiments, but I'll be fucked if I accept there is such a thing
>as a "Western culture".
I wasn't even thinking in terms of accepting or not. My job, for the
moment, is to learn, and understand the how's and why's of the people
who take the opinion that there is a "western culture."
>> - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>>
>> Eight Edition
>>
>> Donald Kagan, Steven Ozment, Frank M. Turner
>>
>> You can tell exactly what the editors of this book happen to think
>> Western Civilisation means, I think, pretty clearly with this
>> paragraph.
>>
>> "Western Society and the Developing Christian Church"
>>
>> Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
>> Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
>> decline during the fith and sixth centuries. As trade waned, cities
>> rapidly fell on hard times, depriving the West of centres for the
>> exchange of goods and ideas that would enabled it to look and live
>> beyond itself.
>
>What Janica said.
*shrug*
Islam didn't even properly exist till the 7th century, so I'm not sure
what the hell the editors were thinking.
>> The preceeding paragraph is entitled "The Western Debt to Islamic
>> Culture."
>>
>> (both from page 205)
>>
>> >>>>'A couple of years ago I told an English friend that I was
>thinking of
>> >>>>writing a history of Denmark for English readers, and his comment
>was:
>> >>>>"That's very nice of you - but why bother?"
>> >>>
>> >>>[J] I bet his friend didn't know that Englad was ruled from
>Denmark at
>> >>>one point.
>> >>
>> >>*grin*
>> >>
>> >>It's so easy to forget. What with uhm. I don't know. It's easy to
>> >>forget. MTV.
>> >
>> >[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
>>
>> And it only gets worse.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
>>
>> The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
>> affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
>> education and health.
>>
>> More money to war, and less to education.
>
>I think George W. has been playing too much "Age of Empires" or
>"Warcraft" or some other dodgy game.
It's always a game, until America's shit gets blown up. Then it's a
tragedy.
>Brinner
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>>> - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>>
>>[J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>
>Oh, it is.
>
>Take chapter 10 for example.
>
>"By the late fifteenth century, Germany was hopeless divided into some
>three hundred autonomous political entities." (pg.336)
[J] I hope it says "hopelessly". Or there's some shoddy grammar going
on there.
>>>Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
>>>Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
>>>decline during the fith and sixth centuries.
>>
>>[J] Fucking *what*? There was no strong islamic presence in the
>>Mediterranean in the fifth and sixth centuries. Mohammed fled to
>>Medina in 622, for fuck's sake.
>
>See?
>
>They're awful books. I didn't know this when I purchased them (for
>uni), but then I sat down and started reading, and realised "Thank
>FUCK I didn't make any markings or dog-tags in the 2nd volume. I can
>still return that one and get some money back!"
[J] Underline that passage and take it to the professor who told you
to get those books, then tell him that the authors wouldn't even pass
for students over here.
>>[J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
>>to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
>>
>>Sheesh.
>
>My conclusion of these books was: "The Judeo-Christian way of life is
>what we call Western Civilisation. No Muslims allowed in our club."
[J] It's a stupid topic for a book - or a course - anyway.
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>>
>> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>
>It really does.
[J] It just sounds like that to us because we're commies.
>> >Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
>> >Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
>> >decline during the fith and sixth centuries.
>>
>> [J] Fucking *what*? There was no strong islamic presence in the
>> Mediterranean in the fifth and sixth centuries. Mohammed fled to
>> Medina in 622, for fuck's sake.
>
>Language Janica. Although I have to agree here, that is some serious
>inaccuracy.
[J] Sorry. Got a bit excited there.
>> >More money to war, and less to education.
>>
>> [J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
>> to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
>
>Compressed air is best for Muslims, helium for Jews, Nitrogeon for
>Orthodox christians, Hydrogeon for Buddhists(they're serene enough to
>handle it, don't worry) and Argon for Catholics. So my latest research
>tells me anyway.
[J] I get nitrogen? It should be helium for Orthodox Christians. Think
how funny Sunday service would sound like, with all the singing!
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> "Since the Western Heritage first appeared, we have sought to provide
>> our readers with a work that does justice to the richness and variety
>> of Western civilisation. We hope that such an understanding of the
>> West will foster lively debate about its character, values,
>> institutions, and global influence. INdeed, we believe that such a
>> critical outlook on their own culture has characterised the peoples
>> of the Wester since its earliest history. Through such debates we define
>> ourselvea and the values of our culture."
>
>What exactly constitutes Western?
[J] The first lot to move to America, I suspect. So you and I qualify.
>> We believe these themes have been fundamental in Western
>> civilisation, shaping the past and exerting a continuing influence
>> on the present.
>
>Noble sentiments, but I'll be fucked if I accept there is such a thing
>as a "Western culture".
[J] Damn right. It's similar to the way many North Americans talk
about "Europe". They saved "Europe" during WW2, but they can never
tell me who they saved it from.
>> >[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
>>
>> And it only gets worse.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
>>
>> The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
>> affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
>> education and health.
>>
>> More money to war, and less to education.
>
>I think George W. has been playing too much "Age of Empires" or
>"Warcraft" or some other dodgy game.
[J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only trouble
you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting you
choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large part of
your budget on education.
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>>What exactly constitutes Western?
>
>Fuck if I know. I'm not in a position to make any kind of wild
>judgemental conclusions. I am, however, able to say that I feel
>extremely awkward whenever I hear these things.
[J] Hey, you're the one reading these books.
>>Noble sentiments, but I'll be fucked if I accept there is such a thing
>>as a "Western culture".
>
>I wasn't even thinking in terms of accepting or not. My job, for the
>moment, is to learn, and understand the how's and why's of the people
>who take the opinion that there is a "western culture."
[J] Surely that involves questioning their conclusions?
>Islam didn't even properly exist till the 7th century, so I'm not sure
>what the hell the editors were thinking.
[J] They weren't. Which is disturbing in itself. Anybody remotely
knowledgeable in history would blink at that sentence, whether they
were specialised in the history of Islam or not. I mean, I'm not, and
I can spot the error a mile away.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>What exactly constitutes Western?
>>
>>Fuck if I know. I'm not in a position to make any kind of wild
>>judgemental conclusions. I am, however, able to say that I feel
>>extremely awkward whenever I hear these things.
>
>[J] Hey, you're the one reading these books.
Well, not so much. I've not really touched the second one. Because...I
just sort of realised we don't actually even *need* it for the course.
We were only tested on it in the first year, not the second.
There're better history books out there anyway that I'd rather read.
>>>Noble sentiments, but I'll be fucked if I accept there is such a thing
>>>as a "Western culture".
>>
>>I wasn't even thinking in terms of accepting or not. My job, for the
>>moment, is to learn, and understand the how's and why's of the people
>>who take the opinion that there is a "western culture."
>
>[J] Surely that involves questioning their conclusions?
Myself and another student did. So they brought in a specialist to
give a one-time lecture on Spanish Moorish culture & Byzantine. For an
hour and a half.
And I wouldn't be saying that they're full of shit at my faculty if I
didn't question them.
>>Islam didn't even properly exist till the 7th century, so I'm not sure
>>what the hell the editors were thinking.
>
>[J] They weren't. Which is disturbing in itself. Anybody remotely
>knowledgeable in history would blink at that sentence, whether they
>were specialised in the history of Islam or not. I mean, I'm not, and
>I can spot the error a mile away.
That's all very nice. But my programme has very particular ideas about
what constitutes Western Civilisation, and what happened in history.
The last time I pointed out a mistake in the text to the co-president
of my faculty, he smiled, said he appreciated my vigor, and said the
new edition should be a little bit better.
>C&J
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
>us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
>>> "Since the Western Heritage first appeared, we have sought to provide
>>> our readers with a work that does justice to the richness and variety
>>> of Western civilisation. We hope that such an understanding of the
>>> West will foster lively debate about its character, values,
>>> institutions, and global influence. INdeed, we believe that such a
>>> critical outlook on their own culture has characterised the peoples
>>> of the Wester since its earliest history. Through such debates we define
>>> ourselvea and the values of our culture."
>>
>>What exactly constitutes Western?
>
>[J] The first lot to move to America, I suspect. So you and I qualify.
And the rest is...uh...Old Europe.
>>> We believe these themes have been fundamental in Western
>>> civilisation, shaping the past and exerting a continuing influence
>>> on the present.
>>
>>Noble sentiments, but I'll be fucked if I accept there is such a thing
>>as a "Western culture".
>
>[J] Damn right. It's similar to the way many North Americans talk
>about "Europe". They saved "Europe" during WW2, but they can never
>tell me who they saved it from.
There's a girl in my faculty who said "Think about what life would be
like without the Americans! They might never have had a Revolutionary
War, England might never have declined, and they might never have been
there to help win the second world war!"
>>> >[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
>>>
>>> And it only gets worse.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
>>>
>>> The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
>>> affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
>>> education and health.
>>>
>>> More money to war, and less to education.
>>
>>I think George W. has been playing too much "Age of Empires" or
>>"Warcraft" or some other dodgy game.
>
>[J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only trouble
>you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting you
>choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large part of
>your budget on education.
Or he could play Warcraft II, and learn to make those funny troll
voices. "Yes sir, right away sir."
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>> - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>>>
>>>[J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>>
>>Oh, it is.
>>
>>Take chapter 10 for example.
>>
>>"By the late fifteenth century, Germany was hopeless divided into some
>>three hundred autonomous political entities." (pg.336)
>
>[J] I hope it says "hopelessly". Or there's some shoddy grammar going
>on there.
It does. That was my feck.
>>>>Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
>>>>Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
>>>>decline during the fith and sixth centuries.
>>>
>>>[J] Fucking *what*? There was no strong islamic presence in the
>>>Mediterranean in the fifth and sixth centuries. Mohammed fled to
>>>Medina in 622, for fuck's sake.
>>
>>See?
>>
>>They're awful books. I didn't know this when I purchased them (for
>>uni), but then I sat down and started reading, and realised "Thank
>>FUCK I didn't make any markings or dog-tags in the 2nd volume. I can
>>still return that one and get some money back!"
>
>[J] Underline that passage and take it to the professor who told you
>to get those books, then tell him that the authors wouldn't even pass
>for students over here.
Noted. The head is never around though. He's usually at his Research
of Anti-Semitism in Canada office.
>>>[J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
>>>to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
>>>
>>>Sheesh.
>>
>>My conclusion of these books was: "The Judeo-Christian way of life is
>>what we call Western Civilisation. No Muslims allowed in our club."
>
>[J] It's a stupid topic for a book - or a course - anyway.
That's why I stopped paying attention to this crap about Western
Civilisation. The next time I see the co-pres, I should ask him if
Western Civilisation is a civilisation of indoctrination and Muslim
hating.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
>us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
>>> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>>>
>>> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>>
>>It really does.
>
>[J] It just sounds like that to us because we're commies.
When we were reading the Communist Manifesto in Civ II last week, the
main detractor who laughed at Marx spent the time during which the
professor lectured playing hang-man. And refused to acknowledge the
argument of people who can barely make ends meet feel resentful
towards people - like one student in my faculty - who live in
mansions.
>>> >Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
>>> >Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
>>> >decline during the fith and sixth centuries.
>>>
>>> [J] Fucking *what*? There was no strong islamic presence in the
>>> Mediterranean in the fifth and sixth centuries. Mohammed fled to
>>> Medina in 622, for fuck's sake.
>>
>>Language Janica. Although I have to agree here, that is some serious
>>inaccuracy.
>
>[J] Sorry. Got a bit excited there.
>
>>> >More money to war, and less to education.
>>>
>>> [J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
>>> to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
>>
>>Compressed air is best for Muslims, helium for Jews, Nitrogeon for
>>Orthodox christians, Hydrogeon for Buddhists(they're serene enough to
>>handle it, don't worry) and Argon for Catholics. So my latest research
>>tells me anyway.
>
>[J] I get nitrogen? It should be helium for Orthodox Christians. Think
>how funny Sunday service would sound like, with all the singing!
It'd be like the Munchkins from the Wizard of Oz!Ilya the Recusant
-----------------
"Asshole" has a special place in my childhood, the point at which I
first learned that typical Americans were assholes.
- C&J
>C&J
keatin...@gmail.com
> What do Athiests get? A beer?
>
None of the Atheists I've ever met were truly Atheist, they all go
running back to their momma religion when in trouble. I'm not saying
thats true of all atheists now, so calm down.
Agnostics are best blown up with pressurised BCl3 though, its a very
dense toxic gas you see.
Brinner
keatin...@gmail.com
So you should.
> From what I've determined, Western means:
>
> Notions of democracy and individuality, divisions of church and
state,
> bottom-up (grassroots) movements, and uh...whatever it said was
> Western in that long previous post I typed up.
>
> And I don't know if it means anything, but two of the three editors
of
> this book have Jewish family names, and one of them is related to
> Robert Kagan, a well-known figure in the Neo-Con world.
Hmmmm.
That seems fair, I'd like a full report when you're finished.
>
> >> - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
> >>
> >> Eight Edition
> >>
> >> Donald Kagan, Steven Ozment, Frank M. Turner
> >>
> >> You can tell exactly what the editors of this book happen to think
> >> Western Civilisation means, I think, pretty clearly with this
> >> paragraph.
> >>
> >> "Western Society and the Developing Christian Church"
> >>
> >> Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
> >> Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
> >> decline during the fith and sixth centuries. As trade waned,
cities
> >> rapidly fell on hard times, depriving the West of centres for the
> >> exchange of goods and ideas that would enabled it to look and live
> >> beyond itself.
> >
>
> >What Janica said.
>
> *shrug*
>
> Islam didn't even properly exist till the 7th century, so I'm not
sure
> what the hell the editors were thinking.
Yup, a little slapdash on the old fact checking.
If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.
Brinner
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 12 Feb 2005 15:30:43 -0800 - there
was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> "Since the Western Heritage first appeared, we have sought to
provide
> >> our readers with a work that does justice to the richness and
variety
> >> of Western civilisation. We hope that such an understanding of the
> >> West will foster lively debate about its character, values,
> >> institutions, and global influence. INdeed, we believe that such a
> >> critical outlook on their own culture has characterised the
peoples
> >> of the Wester since its earliest history. Through such debates we
define
> >> ourselvea and the values of our culture."
> >
> >What exactly constitutes Western?
>
> [J] The first lot to move to America, I suspect. So you and I
qualify.
White in other words?
>
> >> We believe these themes have been fundamental in Western
> >> civilisation, shaping the past and exerting a continuing influence
> >> on the present.
> >
> >Noble sentiments, but I'll be fucked if I accept there is such a
thing
> >as a "Western culture".
>
> [J] Damn right. It's similar to the way many North Americans talk
> about "Europe". They saved "Europe" during WW2, but they can never
> tell me who they saved it from.
>
> >> >[J] It's embarrassing, is what it is.
> >>
> >> And it only gets worse.
> >>
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4243807.stm
> >>
> >> The $2.58 trillion (?1.38 trillion) budget submitted to Congress
> >> affects 150 domestic programmes from farming to the environment,
> >> education and health.
> >>
> >> More money to war, and less to education.
> >
> >I think George W. has been playing too much "Age of Empires" or
> >"Warcraft" or some other dodgy game.
>
> [J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only
trouble
> you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting you
> choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large part of
> your budget on education.
Do you spend a lot of time poking barbarian villages then? I would.
Brinner
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 12 Feb 2005 15:26:35 -0800 - there
was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
> >>
> >> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
> >
> >It really does.
>
> [J] It just sounds like that to us because we're commies.
I prefer to be known as a Pinko, thanks very much.
>
> >> >Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
> >> >Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
> >> >decline during the fith and sixth centuries.
> >>
> >> [J] Fucking *what*? There was no strong islamic presence in the
> >> Mediterranean in the fifth and sixth centuries. Mohammed fled to
> >> Medina in 622, for fuck's sake.
> >
> >Language Janica. Although I have to agree here, that is some serious
> >inaccuracy.
>
> [J] Sorry. Got a bit excited there.
No problem. Don't blame you.
> >> >More money to war, and less to education.
> >>
> >> [J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam
spread
> >> to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
> >
> >Compressed air is best for Muslims, helium for Jews, Nitrogeon for
> >Orthodox christians, Hydrogeon for Buddhists(they're serene enough
to
> >handle it, don't worry) and Argon for Catholics. So my latest
research
> >tells me anyway.
>
> [J] I get nitrogen? It should be helium for Orthodox Christians.
Think
> how funny Sunday service would sound like, with all the singing!
>
Sorry i don't make the rules. I'd reccomend listening to a Rabbi full
of Helium read fromt the Tora(sp?) though.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Well I wasn't speaking for myself. I was just sort...in general,
asking. Because I want to find a way to do something horrible to
people. If I need to.
Ilya the Recusant
*shifts and erm...uh...sorta feels uncomfortable.*
...Hmm...What are you saying...?
My beret and I...we do not understand you...
>> From what I've determined, Western means:
>>
>> Notions of democracy and individuality, divisions of church and
>state,
>> bottom-up (grassroots) movements, and uh...whatever it said was
>> Western in that long previous post I typed up.
>>
>> And I don't know if it means anything, but two of the three editors
>of
>> this book have Jewish family names, and one of them is related to
>> Robert Kagan, a well-known figure in the Neo-Con world.
>
>Hmmmm.
That's about the sound I make.
Oh I can tell you that right now. It's a very silly place, full of
holier-than-thou and would-be grand standers who say very silly things
that sound pronounced, underlined, italicised and otherwise important
things about the world that sound very silly.
But occasionally it can be very educational.
>> >> - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>> >>
>> >> Eight Edition
>> >>
>> >> Donald Kagan, Steven Ozment, Frank M. Turner
>> >>
>> >> You can tell exactly what the editors of this book happen to think
>> >> Western Civilisation means, I think, pretty clearly with this
>> >> paragraph.
>> >>
>> >> "Western Society and the Developing Christian Church"
>> >>
>> >> Facing barbarian invasions from the north and east and a strong
>> >> Islamic presence in teh Mediterranean, the West found itself in
>> >> decline during the fith and sixth centuries. As trade waned,
>cities
>> >> rapidly fell on hard times, depriving the West of centres for the
>> >> exchange of goods and ideas that would enabled it to look and live
>> >> beyond itself.
>> >
>>
>> >What Janica said.
>>
>> *shrug*
>>
>> Islam didn't even properly exist till the 7th century, so I'm not
>sure
>> what the hell the editors were thinking.
>
>Yup, a little slapdash on the old fact checking.
Nut-knuckle to the uh...
Yeah.
You've gotta cry first. Then you start laughing.
keatin...@gmail.com
Ilya the Recusant wrote:
> In a not so bright galaxy nowhere near intelligent space,
> keatin...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> What do Athiests get? A beer?
> >>
> >
> >None of the Atheists I've ever met were truly Atheist, they all go
> >running back to their momma religion when in trouble. I'm not saying
> >thats true of all atheists now, so calm down.
> >
> >Agnostics are best blown up with pressurised BCl3 though, its a very
> >dense toxic gas you see.
>
>
> Well I wasn't speaking for myself. I was just sort...in general,
> asking. Because I want to find a way to do something horrible to
> people. If I need to.
>
A noble aspiration when asking a question.
Brinner
keatin...@gmail.com
I just thought it was time you felt uncomfortable.
>
>
>
> >> From what I've determined, Western means:
> >>
> >> Notions of democracy and individuality, divisions of church and
> >state,
> >> bottom-up (grassroots) movements, and uh...whatever it said was
> >> Western in that long previous post I typed up.
> >>
> >> And I don't know if it means anything, but two of the three
editors
> >of
> >> this book have Jewish family names, and one of them is related to
> >> Robert Kagan, a well-known figure in the Neo-Con world.
> >
> >Hmmmm.
>
> That's about the sound I make.
Good.
At least thats something.
Yeah, I suppose so.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Nothing finer in this world than violent intentions. Especially is
maiming is involved. With lasers.
Ilya the Recusant
Even in an open place, with lots of air, you'd make me get
all...shifty.
*shifts*
>> >> From what I've determined, Western means:
>> >>
>> >> Notions of democracy and individuality, divisions of church and
>> >state,
>> >> bottom-up (grassroots) movements, and uh...whatever it said was
>> >> Western in that long previous post I typed up.
>> >>
>> >> And I don't know if it means anything, but two of the three
>editors
>> >of
>> >> this book have Jewish family names, and one of them is related to
>> >> Robert Kagan, a well-known figure in the Neo-Con world.
>> >
>> >Hmmmm.
>>
>> That's about the sound I make.
>
>Good.
Though usually I just sigh.
Well I can tell you about some early 20th century Russian writers who
tried to "turn impressionist paintings into narrative content." Though
I still want to know what the definition of wanky is.
I know I did. And after a while, you just think to yourself - "They
get so angry when I or some one else disagrees with them. And they get
all ranty and border-line Euro-centric-y. And it makes their forehead
veign pulse angrily. ...They're really angry about something."
keatin...@gmail.com
Whys that then.
Let me know whenu find out ehh.
They're like your little brother, they're angry at you for something
all of the time, but who really knows why? Not even them.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Well, I'm..already you know... uh...uncomfortable...most of the time,
with that western civilizy thingy at my back.
I keep asking Chucky, and I just can't figure it out. I can't tell if
his brain is just too smart to tell me what it formally means, or if
I'm just missing some great big nuance. But I am trying.
Oh, they don't know how to relax. They're angry that the world isn't
as they think it should be, I guess. Great Ayatollahs and Satans all
around them.
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>>>>[J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
>>>>to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
>>>>
>>>>Sheesh.
>>>
>>>My conclusion of these books was: "The Judeo-Christian way of life is
>>>what we call Western Civilisation. No Muslims allowed in our club."
>>
>>[J] It's a stupid topic for a book - or a course - anyway.
>
>That's why I stopped paying attention to this crap about Western
>Civilisation. The next time I see the co-pres, I should ask him if
>Western Civilisation is a civilisation of indoctrination and Muslim
>hating.
[J] Of course not. It's about logically coming to the same conclusion
out of your own free, if slightly guided, will.
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> >What exactly constitutes Western?
>>
>> [J] The first lot to move to America, I suspect. So you and I
>qualify.
>
>White in other words?
[J] I don't know. I'm pink, myself. And almost Russian, which I
suspect might disqualify me from being white. But I never understood
those racial divisions either.
>> [J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only trouble
>> you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting you
>> choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large part of
>> your budget on education.
>
>Do you spend a lot of time poking barbarian villages then? I would.
[J] Naturally, there's money there. It also pisses them off, so you do
it at your own risk. Which Bushie doesn't seem to get.
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
following stuff:
>>>I think George W. has been playing too much "Age of Empires" or
>>>"Warcraft" or some other dodgy game.
>>
>>[J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only trouble
>>you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting you
>>choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large part of
>>your budget on education.
>
>Or he could play Warcraft II, and learn to make those funny troll
>voices. "Yes sir, right away sir."
[J] He might, you know. I'm sure there's somebody sitting in the
shadows pulling the strings.
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>>>Islam didn't even properly exist till the 7th century, so I'm not sure
>>>what the hell the editors were thinking.
>>
>>[J] They weren't. Which is disturbing in itself. Anybody remotely
>>knowledgeable in history would blink at that sentence, whether they
>>were specialised in the history of Islam or not. I mean, I'm not, and
>>I can spot the error a mile away.
>
>That's all very nice. But my programme has very particular ideas about
>what constitutes Western Civilisation, and what happened in history.
>The last time I pointed out a mistake in the text to the co-president
>of my faculty, he smiled, said he appreciated my vigor, and said the
>new edition should be a little bit better.
[J] Sweet. Perhaps you could send a letter to the editors. "Dear Sirs,
I have included for your detailed perusal a chronology of the main
important events in world history. Please do not hesitate to pay close
attention to the division into centuries."
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> >> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>> >>
>> >> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>> >
>> >It really does.
>>
>> [J] It just sounds like that to us because we're commies.
>
>I prefer to be known as a Pinko, thanks very much.
[J] Sorry, sorry, I'm still working on this political lingo.
>> [J] I get nitrogen? It should be helium for Orthodox Christians.
>> Think how funny Sunday service would sound like, with all
>> the singing!
>
>Sorry i don't make the rules. I'd reccomend listening to a Rabbi full
>of Helium read fromt the Tora(sp?) though.
[J] Well okay, I concede that it might also be amusing.
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
following stuff:
>Well I wasn't speaking for myself. I was just sort...in general,
>asking. Because I want to find a way to do something horrible to
>people. If I need to.
Plenty of good material in horror movies.
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>None of the Atheists I've ever met were truly Atheist, they all go
>running back to their momma religion when in trouble. I'm not saying
>thats true of all atheists now, so calm down.
Atheists just want to be proven wrong. They're like Taimandreders.
It's very sad.
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 13 Feb 2005 11:54:24 -0800 - there
was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> >> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
> >> >>
> >> >> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
> >> >
> >> >It really does.
> >>
> >> [J] It just sounds like that to us because we're commies.
> >
> >I prefer to be known as a Pinko, thanks very much.
>
> [J] Sorry, sorry, I'm still working on this political lingo.
Thats ok, I'll let you have some lee way here since you're finnish.
>
> >> [J] I get nitrogen? It should be helium for Orthodox Christians.
> >> Think how funny Sunday service would sound like, with all
> >> the singing!
> >
> >Sorry i don't make the rules. I'd reccomend listening to a Rabbi
full
> >of Helium read fromt the Tora(sp?) though.
>
> [J] Well okay, I concede that it might also be amusing.
>
Uproarious more like.
Brinner
keatin...@gmail.com
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 13 Feb 2005 11:50:59 -0800 - there
was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> >What exactly constitutes Western?
> >>
> >> [J] The first lot to move to America, I suspect. So you and I
> >qualify.
> >
> >White in other words?
>
> [J] I don't know. I'm pink, myself. And almost Russian, which I
> suspect might disqualify me from being white. But I never understood
> those racial divisions either.
Me either, it might seem strange to some people but I'd never consider
myself a "white man". I'm Irish. There might be something else mixed in
there but it doesn't really matter to me. Another thing that always
tickled me was, if I'm white why are most Jews? Suppose I should ask
the KKK.
On a related note, have you noticed the "Nazi Gassings Never Happened
Thread" on soc.history.ancient. Now thats some serious revisionism
right there.
>
> >> [J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only
trouble
> >> you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting
you
> >> choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large part
of
> >> your budget on education.
> >
> >Do you spend a lot of time poking barbarian villages then? I would.
>
> [J] Naturally, there's money there. It also pisses them off, so you
do
> it at your own risk. Which Bushie doesn't seem to get.
He doesn't get a lot really, bless him.
Brinner
keatin...@gmail.com
Frankly I don't blame you.
I thought surely he'd be an expert myself.
They should legalise pot and hand it out at Republican conventions in
Brownie form. That might do it.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>Once upon a time - for example, Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:38:29 -0500 -
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>Well I wasn't speaking for myself. I was just sort...in general,
>>asking. Because I want to find a way to do something horrible to
>>people. If I need to.
>
>Plenty of good material in horror movies.
Uh.
No.
>C&J
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>>>[J] It's completely logical. You don't need to know when Islam spread
>>>>>to the Mediterranean to know how to blow up Muslims.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sheesh.
>>>>
>>>>My conclusion of these books was: "The Judeo-Christian way of life is
>>>>what we call Western Civilisation. No Muslims allowed in our club."
>>>
>>>[J] It's a stupid topic for a book - or a course - anyway.
>>
>>That's why I stopped paying attention to this crap about Western
>>Civilisation. The next time I see the co-pres, I should ask him if
>>Western Civilisation is a civilisation of indoctrination and Muslim
>>hating.
>
>[J] Of course not. It's about logically coming to the same conclusion
>out of your own free, if slightly guided, will.
*grin*
And here I thought it was all about Jew-killing.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
>us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
>>None of the Atheists I've ever met were truly Atheist, they all go
>>running back to their momma religion when in trouble. I'm not saying
>>thats true of all atheists now, so calm down.
>
>Atheists just want to be proven wrong. They're like Taimandreders.
>It's very sad.
Unless they believe they're right. In which case I wonder how they can
believe in ... well, not-believing.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
>us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
>>> >> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>>> >>
>>> >> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>>> >
>>> >It really does.
>>>
>>> [J] It just sounds like that to us because we're commies.
>>
>>I prefer to be known as a Pinko, thanks very much.
>
>[J] Sorry, sorry, I'm still working on this political lingo.
You forgot Nazi.
>>> [J] I get nitrogen? It should be helium for Orthodox Christians.
>>> Think how funny Sunday service would sound like, with all
>>> the singing!
>>
>>Sorry i don't make the rules. I'd reccomend listening to a Rabbi full
>>of Helium read fromt the Tora(sp?) though.
>
>[J] Well okay, I concede that it might also be amusing.
Especially the Orthodox Rabbis. Those guys *really* get into it when
they're given the time. I wish I could set up a "Sermon Challenge"
between a Catholic Priest and an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi. Measure
decibel levels.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
I could.
But do you really think they'd listen? It is the 8th Edition, after
all.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>>I think George W. has been playing too much "Age of Empires" or
>>>>"Warcraft" or some other dodgy game.
>>>
>>>[J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only trouble
>>>you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting you
>>>choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large part of
>>>your budget on education.
>>
>>Or he could play Warcraft II, and learn to make those funny troll
>>voices. "Yes sir, right away sir."
>
>[J] He might, you know. I'm sure there's somebody sitting in the
>shadows pulling the strings.
"Oh My God, That's Not the Wizard of Oz, It's Saddam Hussein!!"
Ilya the Recusant
All things possible, I'd rather have Janica as my teacher any day over
the people I've had here my first year in the Civilisation I class.
Maybe. But I still don't know what "wanky" means.
Amen brotha. Because we might say "they need a beer or two" until we
realise (as I did when I finally understood/"got" beer) that American
beer is awful. Give them weed brotha, give them the weed!
Ilya the Recusant
>> Once upon a time - for example, 13 Feb 2005 11:50:59 -0800 - there
>was
>> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
>> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>>
>> >> >What exactly constitutes Western?
>> >>
>> >> [J] The first lot to move to America, I suspect. So you and I
>> >qualify.
>> >
>> >White in other words?
>>
>> [J] I don't know. I'm pink, myself. And almost Russian, which I
>> suspect might disqualify me from being white. But I never understood
>> those racial divisions either.
>
>Me either, it might seem strange to some people but I'd never consider
>myself a "white man". I'm Irish. There might be something else mixed in
>there but it doesn't really matter to me. Another thing that always
>tickled me was, if I'm white why are most Jews? Suppose I should ask
>the KKK.
Irish people aren't white; they're drunks.
>On a related note, have you noticed the "Nazi Gassings Never Happened
>Thread" on soc.history.ancient. Now thats some serious revisionism
>right there.
David Irving scholars?
>> >> [J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only
>trouble
>> >> you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting
>you
>> >> choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large part
>of
>> >> your budget on education.
>> >
>> >Do you spend a lot of time poking barbarian villages then? I would.
>>
>> [J] Naturally, there's money there. It also pisses them off, so you
>do
>> it at your own risk. Which Bushie doesn't seem to get.
>
>He doesn't get a lot really, bless him.
*adds suffix*
"In bed."
keatin...@gmail.com
Thanks, thats awfully nice of you to say.
>
> >On a related note, have you noticed the "Nazi Gassings Never
Happened
> >Thread" on soc.history.ancient. Now thats some serious revisionism
> >right there.
>
> David Irving scholars?
David Irving?
> >> >> [J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only
> >trouble
> >> >> you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting
> >you
> >> >> choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large
part
> >of
> >> >> your budget on education.
> >> >
> >> >Do you spend a lot of time poking barbarian villages then? I
would.
> >>
> >> [J] Naturally, there's money there. It also pisses them off, so
you
> >do
> >> it at your own risk. Which Bushie doesn't seem to get.
> >
> >He doesn't get a lot really, bless him.
>
> *adds suffix*
>
> "In bed."
>
Lol, his God forbids him to enjoy sex anyway.
Brinner
Brinner
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 13 Feb 2005 11:46:01 -0800 - there
was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >None of the Atheists I've ever met were truly Atheist, they all go
> >running back to their momma religion when in trouble. I'm not saying
> >thats true of all atheists now, so calm down.
>
> Atheists just want to be proven wrong. They're like Taimandreders.
> It's very sad.
>
They're both very, very insistent as well.
Brinner
Brinner
Most Cathlotic priest nowadays are either soft spoken or in jail
unfortunatly, not like the good old days when the were out shoutin' and
abusin'.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Well they're true believers, y'know?
Ilya the Recusant
Not the few times I went to a Catholic church. Man, that guy loved
breaking decible laws.
>Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Anything for a fellow ethnic drunk.
>> >On a related note, have you noticed the "Nazi Gassings Never
>Happened
>> >Thread" on soc.history.ancient. Now thats some serious revisionism
>> >right there.
>>
>> David Irving scholars?
>
>David Irving?
WWII historian, wrote some books, and...then...pissed off just
about...everyone and anyone who spoke English, Hebrew or French by
making some claims regarding the Holocaust that were decried as being
Revisionist, Anti-Semitic and Holocaust Denying.
>> >> >> [J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians only
>> >trouble
>> >> >> you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what setting
>> >you
>> >> >> choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large
>part
>> >of
>> >> >> your budget on education.
>> >> >
>> >> >Do you spend a lot of time poking barbarian villages then? I
>would.
>> >>
>> >> [J] Naturally, there's money there. It also pisses them off, so
>you
>> >do
>> >> it at your own risk. Which Bushie doesn't seem to get.
>> >
>> >He doesn't get a lot really, bless him.
>>
>> *adds suffix*
>>
>> "In bed."
>>
>
>
>Lol, his God forbids him to enjoy sex anyway.
"What about your two daughters sir?"
"I had...a ... biological...responsibility. See, what I really wanted
were small Arab boys, but my wife insisted on having her own
children."
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called "Brinner" <keatin...@gmail.com>,
and they made us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> >None of the Atheists I've ever met were truly Atheist, they all go
>> >running back to their momma religion when in trouble. I'm not saying
>> >thats true of all atheists now, so calm down.
>>
>> Atheists just want to be proven wrong. They're like Taimandreders.
>> It's very sad.
>
>They're both very, very insistent as well.
I wonder if atheists, when proven wrong, will go around saying, "God
just turned up because we'd guessed the real answer! That's cheating!
He's ruined a perfectly good story!"
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> >> >> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>> >> >
>> >> >It really does.
>> >>
>> >> [J] It just sounds like that to us because we're commies.
>> >
>> >I prefer to be known as a Pinko, thanks very much.
>>
>> [J] Sorry, sorry, I'm still working on this political lingo.
>
>Thats ok, I'll let you have some lee way here since you're finnish.
[J] It's just all so confusing. Liberal, left, communist. None of
these seem to carry the meanings that any of my dictionaries assign to
them.
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
following stuff:
>>>I prefer to be known as a Pinko, thanks very much.
>>
>>[J] Sorry, sorry, I'm still working on this political lingo.
>
>You forgot Nazi.
[J] Apparently they were communists too.
Chucky & Janica
this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>> [J] I don't know. I'm pink, myself. And almost Russian, which I
>> suspect might disqualify me from being white. But I never understood
>> those racial divisions either.
>
>Me either, it might seem strange to some people but I'd never consider
>myself a "white man". I'm Irish. There might be something else mixed in
>there but it doesn't really matter to me. Another thing that always
>tickled me was, if I'm white why are most Jews? Suppose I should ask
>the KKK.
[J] You know what I've always wondered? If one of your grandparents is
black, you're also black. What sort of math is that?
>On a related note, have you noticed the "Nazi Gassings Never Happened
>Thread" on soc.history.ancient. Now thats some serious revisionism
>right there.
[J] Saw it, but I haven't been following it. Is it funny, or just
depressing?
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
<q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
following stuff:
>>>That's all very nice. But my programme has very particular ideas about
>>>what constitutes Western Civilisation, and what happened in history.
>>>The last time I pointed out a mistake in the text to the co-president
>>>of my faculty, he smiled, said he appreciated my vigor, and said the
>>>new edition should be a little bit better.
>>
>>[J] Sweet. Perhaps you could send a letter to the editors. "Dear Sirs,
>>I have included for your detailed perusal a chronology of the main
>>important events in world history. Please do not hesitate to pay close
>>attention to the division into centuries."
>
>I could.
>
>But do you really think they'd listen? It is the 8th Edition, after
>all.
[J] I'm slightly disturbed that nobody else has noticed it.
Brinner
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 14 Feb 2005 12:08:14 -0800 - there
was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> >> >> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >It really does.
> >> >>
> >> >> [J] It just sounds like that to us because we're commies.
> >> >
> >> >I prefer to be known as a Pinko, thanks very much.
> >>
> >> [J] Sorry, sorry, I'm still working on this political lingo.
> >
> >Thats ok, I'll let you have some lee way here since you're finnish.
>
> [J] It's just all so confusing. Liberal, left, communist. None of
> these seem to carry the meanings that any of my dictionaries assign
to
> them.
It really depends on what country you live in, in Ireland I'm a mere
pinko, in the U.S. I'd probably be a full blown commie, in china I'd be
an inordinatly tall white guy with leftist leanings. You follow?
Brinner
Brinner
Really? Where was that? I was at mass in St. Patricks in Montreal about
2 years ago and the priest was very soft spoken but gave a quality mass
nonetheless. I believe he was actually a monsineur, which is a step
above a normal priest too.
Brinner
Brinner
Anyhthing ehhhhh?
>
> >> >On a related note, have you noticed the "Nazi Gassings Never
> >Happened
> >> >Thread" on soc.history.ancient. Now thats some serious
revisionism
> >> >right there.
> >>
> >> David Irving scholars?
> >
> >David Irving?
>
> WWII historian, wrote some books, and...then...pissed off just
> about...everyone and anyone who spoke English, Hebrew or French by
> making some claims regarding the Holocaust that were decried as being
> Revisionist, Anti-Semitic and Holocaust Denying.
>
Ahhh that cunt.
> >> >> >> [J] He should have tried Civilization instead. Barbarians
only
> >> >trouble
> >> >> >> you if you poke their villages (well, depending on what
setting
> >> >you
> >> >> >> choose), and you can't get anywhere without spending a large
> >part
> >> >of
> >> >> >> your budget on education.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Do you spend a lot of time poking barbarian villages then? I
> >would.
> >> >>
> >> >> [J] Naturally, there's money there. It also pisses them off, so
> >you
> >> >do
> >> >> it at your own risk. Which Bushie doesn't seem to get.
> >> >
> >> >He doesn't get a lot really, bless him.
> >>
> >> *adds suffix*
> >>
> >> "In bed."
> >>
> >
> >
> >Lol, his God forbids him to enjoy sex anyway.
>
> "What about your two daughters sir?"
>
> "I had...a ... biological...responsibility. See, what I really wanted
> were small Arab boys, but my wife insisted on having her own
> children."
>
Are you accusing Bushie of liking young boys? I believe it.
Brinner
Brinner
Chucky & Janica wrote:
> Once upon a time - for example, 14 Feb 2005 12:12:39 -0800 - there
was
> this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
> us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
> >> [J] I don't know. I'm pink, myself. And almost Russian, which I
> >> suspect might disqualify me from being white. But I never
understood
> >> those racial divisions either.
> >
> >Me either, it might seem strange to some people but I'd never
consider
> >myself a "white man". I'm Irish. There might be something else mixed
in
> >there but it doesn't really matter to me. Another thing that always
> >tickled me was, if I'm white why are most Jews? Suppose I should ask
> >the KKK.
>
> [J] You know what I've always wondered? If one of your grandparents
is
> black, you're also black. What sort of math is that?
Racial maths.
>
> >On a related note, have you noticed the "Nazi Gassings Never
Happened
> >Thread" on soc.history.ancient. Now thats some serious revisionism
> >right there.
>
> [J] Saw it, but I haven't been following it. Is it funny, or just
> depressing?
Very depressing.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>this guy, or something, called "Brinner" <keatin...@gmail.com>,
>and they made us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
>>> >None of the Atheists I've ever met were truly Atheist, they all go
>>> >running back to their momma religion when in trouble. I'm not saying
>>> >thats true of all atheists now, so calm down.
>>>
>>> Atheists just want to be proven wrong. They're like Taimandreders.
>>> It's very sad.
>>
>>They're both very, very insistent as well.
>
>I wonder if atheists, when proven wrong, will go around saying, "God
>just turned up because we'd guessed the real answer! That's cheating!
>He's ruined a perfectly good story!"
...
I didn't know you could prove a religion - or lack thereof -
empirically.
NEAT! Tell me more.
>C&J
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>this guy, or something, called keatin...@gmail.com, and they made
>us all feel better by saying the following stuff:
>
>>> >> >> > - Preface to The Western Heritage Volume One: To 1740,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [J] This sounds like a terrible book.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >It really does.
>>> >>
>>> >> [J] It just sounds like that to us because we're commies.
>>> >
>>> >I prefer to be known as a Pinko, thanks very much.
>>>
>>> [J] Sorry, sorry, I'm still working on this political lingo.
>>
>>Thats ok, I'll let you have some lee way here since you're finnish.
>
>[J] It's just all so confusing. Liberal, left, communist. None of
>these seem to carry the meanings that any of my dictionaries assign to
>them.
What, they don't say Syn:[Anti-American] ?
Ilya the Recusant
Franklin, Massachusetts
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>>I prefer to be known as a Pinko, thanks very much.
>>>
>>>[J] Sorry, sorry, I'm still working on this political lingo.
>>
>>You forgot Nazi.
>
>[J] Apparently they were communists too.
Socialists. Communists. Bah, Americans can't be bothered with details.
Ilya the Recusant
Janica <janica...@kolumbus.finland> wrote:
>there was this guy, or something, called Ilya the Recusant
><q...@deadspam.net>, and they made us all feel better by saying the
>following stuff:
>
>>>>That's all very nice. But my programme has very particular ideas about
>>>>what constitutes Western Civilisation, and what happened in history.
>>>>The last time I pointed out a mistake in the text to the co-president
>>>>of my faculty, he smiled, said he appreciated my vigor, and said the
>>>>new edition should be a little bit better.
>>>
>>>[J] Sweet. Perhaps you could send a letter to the editors. "Dear Sirs,
>>>I have included for your detailed perusal a chronology of the main
>>>important events in world history. Please do not hesitate to pay close
>>>attention to the division into centuries."
>>
>>I could.
>>
>>But do you really think they'd listen? It is the 8th Edition, after
>>all.
>
>[J] I'm slightly disturbed that nobody else has noticed it.
Maybe they have and they just don't care.
Until 2 shiny towers went CRUMBLE.
Brinner
Ah well there you go, Amercians=the loudest fuckers in the world.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Almost.
Don't get any ideas though, okay?
>>
>> >> >On a related note, have you noticed the "Nazi Gassings Never
>> >Happened
>> >> >Thread" on soc.history.ancient. Now thats some serious
>revisionism
>> >> >right there.
>> >>
>> >> David Irving scholars?
>> >
>> >David Irving?
>>
>> WWII historian, wrote some books, and...then...pissed off just
>> about...everyone and anyone who spoke English, Hebrew or French by
>> making some claims regarding the Holocaust that were decried as being
>> Revisionist, Anti-Semitic and Holocaust Denying.
>>
>Ahhh that cunt.
How dare he question history.
Some of his earlier works were given considerable critical praise, for
examining some particulars of WWII that were out-of-the-way subjects.
Though he did claim things about gas-chambers, such as the ones at
Treblinka, that weren't true - about people not being gased, but dying
of disease and exhaustion, etc.
The kind of thing that gets you publicly rail-roaded, basically.
He'd be doing us a favour if he did. Less chance of him breeding.
Brinner
I have plenty already.
>
> >>
> >> >> >On a related note, have you noticed the "Nazi Gassings Never
> >> >Happened
> >> >> >Thread" on soc.history.ancient. Now thats some serious
> >revisionism
> >> >> >right there.
> >> >>
> >> >> David Irving scholars?
> >> >
> >> >David Irving?
> >>
> >> WWII historian, wrote some books, and...then...pissed off just
> >> about...everyone and anyone who spoke English, Hebrew or French by
> >> making some claims regarding the Holocaust that were decried as
being
> >> Revisionist, Anti-Semitic and Holocaust Denying.
> >>
> >Ahhh that cunt.
>
> How dare he question history.
I don't mind history being questioned, but its a bit much saying that
thousands of eye witenesses must have been wrong.
> Some of his earlier works were given considerable critical praise,
for
> examining some particulars of WWII that were out-of-the-way subjects.
>
> Though he did claim things about gas-chambers, such as the ones at
> Treblinka, that weren't true - about people not being gased, but
dying
> of disease and exhaustion, etc.
> The kind of thing that gets you publicly rail-roaded, basically.
I dunno, personally, I ignore anyone who tries to downplay the details
of the holocaust. I've read too many articles recently on the internet
by people saying that the holocaust either didn't happen or wasn't as
bad as it was made out to be, blaming some sort of Zionist conspiracy.
It really turns my stomach. Its probably a bit closed minded to not
welcome any analysis of the Holocaust, but too much of it that I've
come across reeks heavily of Anti-Semitism.
A plastic bag over his head mafia style might do that as well.
Brinner
Ilya the Recusant
Not the ones I know.
Well...okay. Do you mean sober, or drunk?