In the last two months of this calendar year I've been reading Peter
Dale Scott's 3-vol Seculum epic poem, starting with _Coming To
Jakarta: A Poem About Terror_ (started around 1980, pub in '88), then
_Listening To The Candle: A Poem On Impulse_, then finally _Minding
The Darkness: A Poem For the Millenium_, pub in 2000.

(Sombunall) RAW and EzP fans wd especially like the 3rd volume. A
Canadian academic who taught in the English dept at Berkeley for a
long time, he's an outsider academic/intellectual and he mentions
Pound and Chomsky and Zinn and Dante and others in the poems. He's
heavily infl by Pound, but nowheres near opaque.

What do you do when you're one of those people who know US and world
history like RAW/Chomsky/Zinn/Pound and you know how to access and
digest tons of information about the world situation of banks/"deep
politics" and the "deep state" (two terms PDS uses instead of
"conspiracy theory")/state-gangsters dealing drugs to finance fascist
coups...and finding out your institution - the academy - has its hand
in facilitating all this mind-boggling crime? You daily feel the
global human oppression but you don't what to do about it? Scott: "The
result is a kind of daily schizophrenia by which we desensitize
ourselves to our own responses to what we read in the newspapers. The
psychic self-alienation which ensues makes integrative poetry
difficult but necessary."

Many of you will be familiar with Peter Dale Scott the non-fiction
writer on State corruption; this version of PDS may be of interest to
some of you.

"there is something to be said
for being marginal
and even insular
at the vortices of culture."
-p.79, _Coming To Jakarta_

He got off the bus and
              strode quickly down the levee
      to an uninhabited area

thirty-five feet below
              called Trinity River bottom
        where he practiced

with his second-hand Mannlicher-Carcano
               wrote Priscilla Johnson
       not bothering to explain

that the man chasing the route
                  was not Lee Harvey Oswald
       but a baffled FBI agent

almost a year later
                   checking out the fourth version
           of Marina's story

as coached by the office-mate
                   of Jack Ruby's former attorney
          a senior FBI informant

whose meeting with Ruby
                  on November 20
          was suppressed by the Warren Commission

and whose partner had been the conduit
                 for payoffs from the mob
      do you understand what I'm saying?

but before I had finished
               the first third of this sentence
      the telephone had been disconnected

no less than four times
            just like six months before
     with the directors of The Fifth Estate

phone call after phone call
                as we hunted in vain
       for the words "army intelligence"

"Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Bureau"
                 or maybe just plain "rifle"
       and the time when Paul's voice

though just ten blocks away
                 was like a phone call from Minsk
       I said "give us our sound back please"

and the burst of volume
                sent my ear reeling
       Even the lawyer

for the House Select Committee
                said "I've never heard
      noises like that on a telephone before"

and he never phoned back
                 so I can't blame you Gore
          that after the fourth disconnection

I never got the chance
                  to proceed with my sentence
       It was Bob Silvers

who explained two days later
                 Gore asked me to try from New York
       and the operator said your extension

was not currently in service
                 And I can't blame the station
       which stopped phoning for my views

on drugs and the contras
                 after we were cut off
       in the middle of the broadcast

or the bleary-eyed hippie
                 who followed my up Telegraph
        into four or five bookstores

and then back again (until
                 I shook him through a second exit)
        saying over and over

we know who you are
                 I work for the FBI
        sooner or later we are going to get you

and I could do nothing about it
                the poor guy
        was so obviously spacy

I can't blame anyone
              except maybe the advice
        to Odysseus from the blind man

for if a sentence
is left dangling in the mind too long

-_Coming To Jakarta_, Peter Dale Scott, poem IV.xiv, pp.133-135

On Jan 1, 3:14 am, RMJon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:

The FBI Behavioral Science Unit
                   has investigated extensively
          and dug into dozens of alleged "mass graves"

without finding a single body,
                  or even a big toe.

_ CT III _ RAW, p.191

On Jan 1, 3:14 am, RMJon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:

                   except maybe the advice
             to Odysseus from the blind man<<

That night inspired the
                     "Islands of Micro-Amnesia"
              in Illuminatus!

Maybe a similar night inspired
                       the Lotus eaters
               in the Odyssey?

- CT III - RAW, p.39

On Jan 2, 12:24 am, ARW23 <AR...@aol.com> wrote:

From the Bay Bridge
              on the way home from the opera
     you could look down on the searchlights

of the Oakland Army Terminal
              where they loaded the containers
      of pellet-bombs and napalm

into black Japanese ships
                over which the cranes
      bent like anxious surgeons

in the calm and glassy night

_Coming To Jakarta_, 103

On Jan 2, 12:36 am, ARW23 <AR...@aol.com> wrote:

There are three desks in my office
              at one I read Virgil's
       descent into the underworld

at one I try to sort out
              clippings of failed Swiss banks
      or of slow killings on meat-hooks

in a well-guarded Chicago garage
             but the third desk this one
       is where the typewriter

stares at me with only
            a sheet of white paper

-CTJ, p.9

(acid in Big Sur
              Allen kneeling to pray
      for Johnson's health

[...]

Owsley by parachute
               at the Human Be-In
      Mika on Carole's shoulders

on mine so they could see
               the Brave New World
      worms in the rose

the party's hostess
               some new drug in the basement
      crying like a child

CIA personnel
                helping local chemists
       set up LSD labs

in the Bay Area
               to monitor events
[...]

women who shyly hinted
               at ineffable orgies
      of acid nakedness

Ed Sanders the Fugs
                 investigative poetics
      Out demons out

On Jan 2, 1:12 am, RMJon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:

The Planet drifts to random insect doom.....
Thermodynamics has won at a crawl.....Orgone balked at the post....
Christ bled....Time ran out.....

"Atrophied Preface" to Naked Lunch, WSB

On Jan 2, 1:12 am, RMJon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:

                  investigative poetics
          Out demons out<<

Eleutherarchy has taken to the airwaves
since the days of Dostoevsky, however, and
the freedom is there

Therefore, NEVER HESITATE TO OPEN
               UP A CASE FILE

               EVEN  UPON  THE  BLOODIEST  OF  BEASTS  OR  PLOTS

"Investigative Poetry", by Ed Sanders, p.23

On Jan 2, 1:12 am, RMJon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:

"The verse of the investigative poet of
genius will discharge data as if scaning
eye-brains were passing across a high-energy grid,
the vectors of verse-froth leaping up from
the verse-grids at every point. High Energy
Verse History Grids!"

        - ED SANDERS, "Investigative Poetry"

On Jan 2, 10:32 pm, ARW23 <AR...@aol.com> wrote:

Ed Sanders: proto-punk Fug with a degree in Greek from NYU, heavily
infl by EzP, if you read the entire _Investigative Poetry_ book, which
City Lights seriously needs to bring back into print.

RAW seemed tickled that, among other Things, Sanders published a book
of poetry called _Fuck God In The Ass_. I haven't read it. Any you
peeps read it?

On w/our poetry thread...

"Why That Abbott and Costello Vaudeville
Mess Never Worked with Black People," by Paul Beatty

who’s on first?
i don’t know, your mama

http://www.bombsite.com/issues/47/articles/1764

But there were sullen matters of revolt among the peasantry; "My
teenage daughters is cunt deep in shit. Is this the American way of
life?" I thought so and I didn't want it changed, sitting there in my
garden, smoking the sheriff's reefers, coal gas on the wind sweet in
my nostrils as the smell of oil to an oil man or the smell of bullshit
to a cattle baron.
-WSB, from "Roosevelt After Inauguration and Other Atrocities"

Haven't seen that, but I have his book on Manson, The Family (various
subtitles), in three different states. Now there's another one available--

--
Dan Clore

New book: _Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon_:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3bxkw
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
(Wait for the new edition: http://hplmythos.com/ )
Lord We rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://tinyurl.com/292yz9
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

On Jan 2, 11:48 pm, Dan Clore <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote:

Oregon and what other two?

No but all seriousness aside, I'm not by any means a "true crime"
buff. I've worked in libraries and have met the True Crime Buff many
times. But after _The Family_, I'm not sure if there could POSSIBLY be
anything that could top it. It took me a week to get up the nerve to
read Chapter 41 alone. A frickin' masterpiece!

All too many times: Manson topic arises. Bugliosi's name and book.
(And the Beatles, of course. Maybe: Dennis Wilson. Maybe.)

Me: Yea, but have you read Ed Sanders?

X, Y and Z: who?

Me: Oh, well, he's probably better...well, you might want to read his
book on the Manson thing if you liked Bugliosi...

Q: I've heard of that book!

 - - - - - - - - - - -

Yasseee...they don't let guys like Ed Sanders on TV. Might say
something "offensive." It would be "irresponsible." The sponsors might
object.

But Bugliosi! Hey he's a true American, weddah yas likes wots he gotsa
say or no.

On Jan 3, 12:08 am, RMJon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:

these wordless forests
                enveloping the city
        from which Northrop Frye

a megalomanic-depressive like myself
                wrote of the peaceable kingdom
        of reforging the broken links

between creation and knowledge

-_Listening To The Candle_, p.34, PDS

On Jan 2, 11:33 pm, RMJon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:

No, I did not. BUT I shall!

BTW, there is another book with the "FUCK" in title:

"Fuck America" by Edgar Hilsenrath

BUT, even wikipedia has no balls to name it/list it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Hilsenrath#Works

 I guess the 'spell check' can not check the word "fuck".
Is the word FUCK in any of dictionaries?
Can anyone tolerate it?

So much for the Eleutherarchy!
"Or the dance of freedom".

On Jan 3, 12:35 am, ARW23 <AR...@aol.com> wrote:

First one I could reach, dead tree variety: Webster's Collegiate (no
less!):

fuck \ vb [perhaps of Scand. origin; akin to Norw. dial. _fukka_ to
copulate BLAHBLAHBLAH usu. considered obscene, sometimes used in the
present participle as a meaningless intensive BLAH BLAH

"meaningless intensive"? Fuck You, Webster!

In Robert Anton Wilson's first published book, _Playboy's Book of
Forbidden Words_, there's a long entry (!) on "Fuck." I'd say look
there first.

It seems fairly innocuous to me; when the pack 13 yr old boys on their
razor scooters are using it as a "present participle as a meaningless
intensive" on the city streets and the blue-haired old lady well
within earshot doesn't react at all, it's pretty dead.

Except to the FCC and fundy xtian assholes, of course.

Pretty sure Sanders minted that word. Best I can trans: "rule by
secrecy," but from what I can remember of Investigative Poetry (I
don't own the book, dammit!), ES meant it in the sense that RAW did
when he said you shd consider that you and your friends are a powerful
conspiracy, etc...the world isn't "doing shit to you," you are about
immanentizing the eschaton NOW.

Anyone got a better read?

poetry:

for want of correspondence
                with the imagination
       the rich have become richer

the poor poorer
               from an unmitigated exercise
      of the calculating faculty

-p.196, _Minding The Darkness_, PDS, pretty much quoting lines from
Yeats, who was in turn quoting from Shelley

I have periods where I go through a "true crime" phase. Has to be really
extreme, though: Manson family, Ed Gein, Dahmer*, Zodiac, etc. The
Manson File put out by Amok Press is a good one.

*I have a book by Dahmer's father. It ends with an ad for I'm OK, You're OK.

--
Dan Clore

New book: _Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon_:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3bxkw
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
(Wait for the new edition: http://hplmythos.com/ )
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://tinyurl.com/292yz9
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

Rule by liberty.

Peter Dale Scott sounds interesting.  I enjoyed Sander's  _The
Family._  I think Sanders likes _The Confucian Odes_ best of Pounds'
poetry, as did Guy Davenport.

Cool thread.  I had a dream last week that got me reading Wallace
Stevens for the first time.  My Dante club starts tomorrow.  We will
see how many kids show up.

The Process took legal action to get the chapter about them taken out
of _The Family_, or so I've heard.

On Jan 3, 2:23 pm, Royal Academy of Reality 1132 <Ewagner...@aol.com>
wrote:

"_ The Cantos _ of Ezra Pound first gave us melodic blizzards of data-
fragments. History as slime-sift for morality; Charles Olson grew out
of that Poundian concern. I don't personally believe an Investigative
Poet has to research _ The Cantos _  for clues to the future. More of
the mode of futurity might be learned by studying Pound's _ Confucian
Odes _ , certainly some of the most beautiful and varied melodies
anyone has written." - ( Ed Sanders, "Investigative Poetry", p.9)

On Jan 3, 1:04 am, RMJon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:

Eleutheria, greek - freedom!

Here is ES's interpretation: "Lawyers have a term: "to make law."

Birds, in a similar way, "make reality" or, really, they "make
freedom"
or they create new modes of what we might term
Eleutherarchy, or the dance of freedom."

ES, "IP", p.9

On Jan 4, 12:31 am, ARW23 <AR...@aol.com> wrote:

Thanks to ARW (who apparently has a copy of Investigative Poetry) and
Royal Academy for the better trans of eleutherarchy.

A few of the ishs of RAW's Trajectories were on cassette. In one, RAW
read this poem, below, and said it was one of his favorites:

THEY ARE NOT LONG

THEY are not long, the weeping and the laughter,
Love and desire and hate:
I think they have no portion in us after
We pass the gate.

They are not long, the days of wine and roses:
Out of a misty dream
Our path emerges for awhile, then closes
Within a dream.

-Ernest Dowson (1867-1900)

Royal Academy of Reality 1132 wrote:

That is correct. I have a copy of the first edition including the
censored material, along with an insert explaining that it will be taken
out of all future printings due to the legal action.

Speaking of Manson again, I also have the album of demo tapes that he
recorded. Giving allowance for it being someone's first recordings in
demo form, not bad stuff. You have to wonder how history turned out in
the universe next door, where Manson got a recording contract and became
a megastar.

--
Dan Clore

New book: _Weird Words: A Lovecraftian Lexicon_:
http://tinyurl.com/yd3bxkw
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
(Wait for the new edition: http://hplmythos.com/ )
Lord We rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://tinyurl.com/292yz9
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

On Jan 4, 5:57 pm, Dan Clore <cl...@columbia-center.org> wrote:

The Beach Boys recorded one of Charlie's songs, "Cease To Exist,"
changing the title to "Never Leran Not To Love."

Reading Michael Walker's book _Laurel Canyon: The Inside Story of Rock
and Roll's Legendary Neighborhood_ there's a chapter about the effect
the Tate murders had on the hippie/rock and/or roll vibe in Laurel
Canyon. A lot of people, after they finally busted Manson, went, "Wow!
I passed a joint to him at Mama Cass's house one night," or other
things like that. And before the bust: megaparanoia, because there
were a lot of record execs and their drug dealers who thought they
were next on the list. So many people had passed on Charlie's demos,
or had had dealings w/him re: drugs.

Charlie learned guitar from Alvin "Creepy" Karpis, in stir. Karpis was
part of Ma Barker's gang.

(I know Clore is all over this stuff; I reiterate it for those
relatively healthy individuals who never became minor Manson
scholars.)

The house where the Tate murders occured was formerly owned by Doris
Day's son, Terry Melcher, who passed on Charlie's musical demos.
Melcher produced, among other bands, the Byrds.

I like the Doris Day----> Manson connexion.

Clore: I have not read the Manson File put out by Amok, but I did read
a book by John Gilmore that was on Amok that was about Manson,
complete with police file photos, incredibly gruesome. Gilmore seems
to me some sub-species of Gonzo True Crime writer, quite a bit
different from Sanders' poetic ironic/sensibilities, which always lurk
beneath.

Another one I've yet to get to along these lines _The Shadow Over
Santa Susana: Black Magic, Mind Control, and the Manson Mythos_, by
Adam Gorightly. Same guy who wrote _Prankster and Conspiracy_, about
Kerry Thornley.

On Jan 4, 3:07 pm, RMJon23 <rmjo...@aol.com> wrote:

"It is the black curtain of destiny which drops down before our
brightest dreams. How often the phantoms of joy regale us, and dance
before us --- golden-winged, angel-faced, heart-warming, and make an
Elysium in which the dreaming soul bathes, and feels translated to
another existence; and then --- sudden as night, or a cloud --- a
word, a step, a thought, a memory will chase them away, like scared
deer vanishing over a gray horizon of moor-land!

I know not justly, if it be a weakness or a sin to create these
phantoms that we love, and to group them into a paradise --- soul-
created. But if it is a sin, it is a sweet and enchanting sin; and if
it is a weakness, it is a strong and stirring weakness."

              - "Reveries of a Bachelor", by Ik Marvel, 1863