Quoting pTerry in academic papers, assignments, discussions etc.

[Marie]

Hi all,

You probably won't know me because I haven't been active/reading this group for several years but a recent pang of homesickness for the group led me back :)

Anyway, I'd love to know if any of you have ever quoted pTerry in academic writing or came across some good examples of this? I myself have quoted him a couple of times in some writing as part of an MSc in science communication. I believe I also used Granny Weatherwax's quotes while describing concepts of morality for a class on philosophical perspectives on science. The bits where she accepts a balance in the universe; a life cannot just be saved - Death insists on a cow's life in exchange for a baby's. I always though that was quite deep IMHO.

Marie.

[GaryN]

Marie <marie...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:bfba4b94-29f1-4000...@googlegroups.com:

IIRC there was a choice. The cow or the kid. Death didn't insist, he was
there for one. Granny forced it so that it was the cow rather than the
child.

gary

--
.Sig file abducted by aliens.
I was bored with changing it every week anyway but as a last gasp...

"And if California slides into the ocean,
like the mystics and statistics say it will,
I predict this motel will be standing,
until I pay my bill"

Warren Zevon, from "Desperados Under The Eaves"

[Marie]

Well, yes, there was a choice, what I meant by "insist" was the insistence of balance, that there must be tit for tat in the universe. The idea of balance of energy, matter, what have you.

[GaryN]

Marie <marie...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:32f6ee40-be10-41bb...@googlegroups.com:

> Well, yes, there was a choice, what I meant by "insist" was the
> insistence of balance, that there must be tit for tat in the universe.
> The idea of balance of energy, matter, what have you.
>
> On Monday, 9 July 2012 16:42:27 UTC+1, GaryN wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > You probably won't know me because I haven't been active/reading
>> > this group for several years but a recent pang of homesickness for
>> > the group led me back :)
>> >
>> > Anyway, I'd love to know if any of you have ever quoted pTerry in
>> > academic writing or came across some good examples of this? I
>> > myself have quoted him a couple of times in some writing as part of
>> > an MSc in science communication. I believe I also used Granny
>> > Weatherwax's quotes while describing concepts of morality for a
>> > class on philosophical perspectives on science. The bits where she
>> > accepts a balance in the universe; a life cannot just be saved -
>> > Death insists on a cow's life in exchange for a baby's. I always
>> > though that was quite deep IMHO.
>> >
>> > Marie.
>>
>> IIRC there was a choice. The cow or the kid. Death didn't insist,
>> he was there for one. Granny forced it so that it was the cow rather
>> than the child.

Would you please be so polite as to not top post.

As for your view there was no balance involved. Death had come for one.
Granny pushed the decision in a particular direction. No balance
involved, no tit for tat, just a choice on the edge.

Get out of your books now and then, go for a pint, talk crap about
irrelevancies with your friends (if you have any) and remember what real
life is like.

gary (afp's official "Complete Bastard")

[Grymma]

On 09/07/2012 18:12, GaryN wrote:
<snip>

>
> Get out of your books now and then, go for a pint, talk crap about
> irrelevancies with your friends (if you have any) and remember what real
> life is like.

..but...but... she just got back here, she's been doing real life (tm)
and came back for a break!!!

>
> gary (afp's official "Complete Bastard")
>

- well someone has to be! :-)

--
Grymma AFPOh Goddess Of Hangovers; DAcFD, BF (UU)
Please don’t ask me to keep in step –
It’s hard enough just to stay in line.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Monday, July 9, 2012 4:35:40 PM UTC+1, Marie wrote:
> Hi all,
>

> You probably won&#39;t know me because I haven&#39;t been active/reading this group for several years but a recent pang of homesickness for the group led me back :)
>
> Anyway, I&#39;d love to know if any of you have ever quoted pTerry in academic writing or came across some good examples of this? I myself have quoted him a couple of times in some writing as part of an MSc in science communication. I believe I also used Granny Weatherwax&#39;s quotes while describing concepts of morality for a class on philosophical perspectives on science. The bits where she accepts a balance in the universe; a life cannot just be saved - Death insists on a cow&#39;s life in exchange for a baby&#39;s. I always though that was quite deep IMHO.

Which book is that?

The case that I remember is where a pregnant
farmer's wife is injured by a cow: Granny
saves the woman,the baby dies - she could
(probably) have done it the other way around -
Granny gives an order that the cow isn't to
be punished. Not to Death, but to the husband.
They're poor and they will need the cow.

I'm not sure which book /that/ is, now.

But there isn't usually a spare cow...

[Walter Bushell]

In article <%MFKr.665587$BJ1.3...@fx25.am4>,

Grymma <ne...@grymma.co.invalid> wrote:

> On 09/07/2012 18:12, GaryN wrote:
> <snip>
> >
> > Get out of your books now and then, go for a pint, talk crap about
> > irrelevancies with your friends (if you have any) and remember what real
> > life is like.
>
> ..but...but... she just got back here, she's been doing real life (tm)
> and came back for a break!!!
>
> >
> > gary (afp's official "Complete Bastard")
> >
>
> - well someone has to be! :-)

Every froup needs one.

--
This space unintentionally left blank.

[Chris Zakes]

Maskerade? <sound of footprints ande pages being turned> No, there's a
similar scene there--a sick baby and a sick cow,one is going to die.
Granny plays a hand of poker with Death and wins the life of the baby.

The scene with the cow and the pregnant woman is in Carpe Jugulum.

-Chris Zakes
Texas
--

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they
will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

-Martin Luther King Jr.

[Chris Zakes]

On Mon, 09 Jul 2012 19:53:45 +0100, an orbital mind-control laser
caused Grymma <ne...@grymma.co.invalid> to write:

>On 09/07/2012 18:12, GaryN wrote:
><snip>
>>
>> Get out of your books now and then, go for a pint, talk crap about
>> irrelevancies with your friends (if you have any) and remember what real
>> life is like.
>
>..but...but... she just got back here, she's been doing real life (tm)
>and came back for a break!!!

I saw an amusing bumper sticker today:

I had a life, but my job ate it.

[Chris Zakes]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:10:22 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control
laser caused Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> to write:

>In message <vl4nv7l5mml2gaob9...@4ax.com>

> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Granny plays a hand of poker with Death and wins the life of the baby.
>

>FSVO of wins, as I recall..
>
>"AH. ALL I HAVE IS FOUR ONES."

Granny had four queens. I don't know much about poker, but I'm pretty
sure that four queens beats four ones.

[Larry Moore]

On 2012-07-10, Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:10:22 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control
> laser caused Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> to write:
>
>>In message <vl4nv7l5mml2gaob9...@4ax.com>
>> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Granny plays a hand of poker with Death and wins the life of the baby.
>>
>>FSVO of wins, as I recall..
>>
>>"AH. ALL I HAVE IS FOUR ONES."
>
> Granny had four queens. I don't know much about poker, but I'm pretty
> sure that four queens beats four ones.
>
> -Chris Zakes
> Texas

possibly on the DW - four aces beats four queens on a the
Mississippi Queen, though?

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On 2012-07-10 07:33:35 -0400, Chris Zakes said:

> On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:10:22 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control
> laser caused Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> to write:
>
>> In message <vl4nv7l5mml2gaob9...@4ax.com>
>> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Granny plays a hand of poker with Death and wins the life of the baby.
>>
>> FSVO of wins, as I recall..
>>
>> "AH. ALL I HAVE IS FOUR ONES."
>
> Granny had four queens. I don't know much about poker, but I'm pretty
> sure that four queens beats four ones.

And you're from Texas?

I'd love to teach you poker, son. First lesson: There's no such thing
as a "one." It's called an ace.




--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...

[Walter Bushell]

In article <36qdnQACaKYZtWHS...@wightman.ca>,

Not if you declare it as four ones.

[Daibhid Ceanaideach]

On 09 Jul 2012, GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> wrote:


> As for your view there was no balance involved. Death had come for
> one. Granny pushed the decision in a particular direction. No
> balance involved, no tit for tat, just a choice on the edge.

I'm not entirely sure what you think Marie means. I know what *I* think she
means and "a choice on the edge" puts it very nicely. Edge, balance,
there's a reason those words fit together.

(I've got the book in front of me now, and there's certainly no indication
that Death *might have* taken the cow if Granny hadn't intervened; his
initial reaction to the suggestion he could take the cow is NO. THAT WOULD
BE CHANGING HISTORY.)

--
Dave
The problems in this world are not caused by those who love.
They're caused by those who hate.
--Arthur, King of Time and Space.

[Jonathan Ellis]

"GaryN" <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> wrote in message
news:XnsA08BB93E3D212...@216.196.109.145...

Hm. There were two very similar incidents, in successive books.

One of them, where the cow and the child are both ill, and Granny plays a
game of cards with Death as to which one to take...

"I LOSE. ALL I HAVE IS FOUR ONES" - against Granny's four queens. (We may
assume that he actually knows, as we do, that aces are always high in
poker - and, presumably, in Cripple Mr Onion - but is pretending otherwise
because he's "on our side really". And that Granny has deliberately given
him the chance to do this... after fixing his arm. Because there's no way
that deal *wasn't* a cheat, but not the usual kind of cheat :-)

Then in a later book, almost the same scene again, but this time a fully fit
cow has kicked a pregnant woman very hard, and the choice is whether to save
the mother or the child, and again Death has come for one... and, this time,
no games, Granny has to *choose* which one. (And saves the mother. Death has
the decency to leave without saying a word.)

-- Jonathan.

[Jonathan Ellis]

"Chris Zakes" <dont...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tk4ov7ponaslf141m...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:10:22 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control
> laser caused Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> to write:
>
>>In message <vl4nv7l5mml2gaob9...@4ax.com>
>> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Granny plays a hand of poker with Death and wins the life of the baby.
>>
>>FSVO of wins, as I recall..
>>
>>"AH. ALL I HAVE IS FOUR ONES."
>
> Granny had four queens. I don't know much about poker, but I'm pretty
> sure that four queens beats four ones.

Everybody who knows anything about poker knows that aces are high except
when played at the low end of a A-2-3-4-5 straight. We may assume (a) that
both Granny and Death know this, (b) that he is pretending he doesn't
because he's "on our side really" and (c) they're both pretending, partly to
each other and partly to any watching Auditors, that the whole deal wasn't a
complete fake set up to give Death that exact chance to pretend *in a
situation where he just know owes Granny for fixing his arm*... no way are
two people going to both get four of a kind on a single deal of poker :-)

-- Jonathan.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:07:38 PM UTC+1, Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> &quot;Chris Zakes&quot; &lt;dont...@gmail.com&gt; wrote in message
> news:tk4ov7ponaslf141m...@4ax.com...
> &gt; On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:10:22 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control
> &gt; laser caused Lewis &lt;g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies&gt; to write:
> &gt;
> &gt;&gt;In message &lt;vl4nv7l5mml2gaob9...@4ax.com&gt;
> &gt;&gt; Chris Zakes &lt;dont...@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> &gt;
> &gt;&gt;&gt; Granny plays a hand of poker with Death and wins the life of the baby.
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt;FSVO of wins, as I recall..
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt;&quot;AH. ALL I HAVE IS FOUR ONES.&quot;
> &gt;
> &gt; Granny had four queens. I don&#39;t know much about poker, but I&#39;m pretty
> &gt; sure that four queens beats four ones.

>
> Everybody who knows anything about poker knows that aces are high except
> when played at the low end of a A-2-3-4-5 straight. We may assume (a) that

> both Granny and Death know this, (b) that he is pretending he doesn&#39;t
> because he&#39;s &quot;on our side really&quot; and (c) they&#39;re both pretending, partly to
> each other and partly to any watching Auditors, that the whole deal wasn&#39;t a

> complete fake set up to give Death that exact chance to pretend *in a
> situation where he just know owes Granny for fixing his arm*... no way are
> two people going to both get four of a kind on a single deal of poker :-)

It's a million to one chance, but it just
might work...

Evidently witches and wizards - at least if
they're good, maybe if they're not - are
allowed to bend What Must Be; arguably that's
what they're /for/.

[GaryN]

Daibhid Ceanaideach <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote in
news:XnsA08CBA896B39Eda...@130.133.4.11:

> On 09 Jul 2012, GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> As for your view there was no balance involved. Death had come for
>> one. Granny pushed the decision in a particular direction. No
>> balance involved, no tit for tat, just a choice on the edge.
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you think Marie means. I know what *I*
> think she means and "a choice on the edge" puts it very nicely. Edge,
> balance, there's a reason those words fit together.
>
> (I've got the book in front of me now, and there's certainly no
> indication that Death *might have* taken the cow if Granny hadn't
> intervened; his initial reaction to the suggestion he could take the
> cow is NO. THAT WOULD BE CHANGING HISTORY.)
>

Song for Granny W

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut5wS4vz8RU

Although she wouldn't approve.

Dogma is still my favourite film.

gary

[Bernard Peek]

On 10/07/12 17:23, Walter Bushell wrote:

>> possibly on the DW - four aces beats four queens on a the
>> Mississippi Queen, though?
>
> Not if you declare it as four ones.

Under normal poker rules the cards speak for themselves. Two pairs of
deuces beats a straight.



--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com

[Chris Zakes]

On 10 Jul 2012 17:20:09 GMT, an orbital mind-control laser caused

Daibhid Ceanaideach <daibhidc...@aol.com> to write:

>On 09 Jul 2012, GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> As for your view there was no balance involved. Death had come for
>> one. Granny pushed the decision in a particular direction. No
>> balance involved, no tit for tat, just a choice on the edge.
>
>I'm not entirely sure what you think Marie means. I know what *I* think she
>means and "a choice on the edge" puts it very nicely. Edge, balance,
>there's a reason those words fit together.
>
>(I've got the book in front of me now, and there's certainly no indication
>that Death *might have* taken the cow if Granny hadn't intervened; his
>initial reaction to the suggestion he could take the cow is NO. THAT WOULD
>BE CHANGING HISTORY.)

But *that* scene is in Maskerade (page 87 of my paperback
version--they've stopped for the night, during the coach trip to
Ankh-Morpork, and Greebo has just turned into a human again.)

The scene with the injured pregnant woman and the cow is in Carpe
Jugulum (page 27.)

[Chris Zakes]

Minor quibble: Granny fixes his arm *after* the cow dies, not before,
so he's not in any debt to her at that point.

[Chris Zakes]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:21:19 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
caused Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> to write:

>On 2012-07-10 07:33:35 -0400, Chris Zakes said:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:10:22 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control
>> laser caused Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> to write:
>>
>>> In message <vl4nv7l5mml2gaob9...@4ax.com>
>>> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Granny plays a hand of poker with Death and wins the life of the baby.
>>>
>>> FSVO of wins, as I recall..
>>>
>>> "AH. ALL I HAVE IS FOUR ONES."
>>
>> Granny had four queens. I don't know much about poker, but I'm pretty
>> sure that four queens beats four ones.
>
>And you're from Texas?

<shrug> Don't believe everything you see in the stereotypes. Games of
that sort (where random chance, not player skill is the major factor)
hold no interest for me, therefore I don't play them.

>I'd love to teach you poker, son. First lesson: There's no such thing
>as a "one." It's called an ace.

Yeah, now that you (and Larry, Walter and Lewis) remind me, I knew
that. Once. But I haven't played a card game--*any* card game--in
years, probably decades thus I didn't remember that detail. (Although
it's odd that Death, who, presumably, *does* know the rules calls them
ones and says Granny wins. Maybe the rules are different on the Disc.)

But if you'll excuse me for a monent, I need to wash this egg off my
face. <G>

[Marie]

On Tuesday, 10 July 2012 18:20:09 UTC+1, Daibhid Ceannaideach wrote:
> On 09 Jul 2012, GaryN wrote:
>
>
> &gt; As for your view there was no balance involved. Death had come for
> &gt; one. Granny pushed the decision in a particular direction. No
> &gt; balance involved, no tit for tat, just a choice on the edge.
>
> I&#39;m not entirely sure what you think Marie means. I know what *I* think she
> means and &quot;a choice on the edge&quot; puts it very nicely. Edge, balance,
> there&#39;s a reason those words fit together.
>
> (I&#39;ve got the book in front of me now, and there&#39;s certainly no indication
> that Death *might have* taken the cow if Granny hadn&#39;t intervened; his

> initial reaction to the suggestion he could take the cow is NO. THAT WOULD
> BE CHANGING HISTORY.)
>
> --
> Dave
> The problems in this world are not caused by those who love.

> They&#39;re caused by those who hate.

> --Arthur, King of Time and Space.

I cannot for the life of me find that essay but the point I was making at the time (I think!) was that Granny Weatherwax has a strong moral compass, a sense of right and wrong that seems to be linked with some universal balance. One of the subjects we debated in 'philosophical perspectives on science' was what moral is i.e. why do we in modern Western society consider it immoral to murder someone, generally not immoral to eat animals etc. And I included Granny in a paragraph because her morality appeals to me and I feel that whatever 'fair' or 'just' is, she embodies that for me.

[Larry Moore]

On 2012-07-10, Bernard Peek <b...@shrdlu.com> wrote:
> On 10/07/12 17:23, Walter Bushell wrote:
>
>>> possibly on the DW - four aces beats four queens on a the
>>> Mississippi Queen, though?
>>
>> Not if you declare it as four ones.
>
> Under normal poker rules the cards speak for themselves. Two pairs of
> deuces beats a straight.
>
>
>

I assume that this yet another incident on the Auditors' charge sheet
against Death.

[Chris Zakes]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 00:05:36 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control

laser caused Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> to write:

>In message <03epv7p6qevjgl3nc...@4ax.com>

> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <shrug> Don't believe everything you see in the stereotypes. Games of
>> that sort (where random chance, not player skill is the major factor)
>> hold no interest for me, therefore I don't play them.
>

>Poker has almost nothing to do with random chance.

Well... yes and no. Which cards end up in which players' hands *is*
random. How the players utilize those cards isn't.

It's not as random as dice-based games like Yahtzee, but certainly
more random than chess.

[Dom]

...and he's so very good at it!
--
Dom

[Kevin Wells]

In message <slrnjvoup6....@mbp55.local>
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <tk4ov7ponaslf141m...@4ax.com>

> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:10:22 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control
>> laser caused Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> to write:
>
>>>In message <vl4nv7l5mml2gaob9...@4ax.com>
>>> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Granny plays a hand of poker with Death and wins the life of the baby.
>>>
>>>FSVO of wins, as I recall..
>>>
>>>"AH. ALL I HAVE IS FOUR ONES."
>
>> Granny had four queens. I don't know much about poker, but I'm pretty
>> sure that four queens beats four ones.
>

>You *don't* know much about poker. :)
>
>"Ones" are Aces, and are the highest card in poker.
>


But where they playing poker or Cripple Mister Onion the popular
Discworld card game?


--
Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
Till we have built Jerusalem

[GaryN]

Dom <dom...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
news:VJgLr.781558$pD7.3...@fx21.am4:

<snip>

>>> > gary (afp's official "Complete Bastard")
>>> >
>>>
>>> - well someone has to be! :-)
>>
>> Every froup needs one.
>>
>
> ...and he's so very good at it!

Does this mean that you still love me Dom?

[GaryN]

Marie <marie...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:24b97718-99bd-4f2b...@googlegroups.com:

There is no "Fair and Just"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPRBmWJZQis&feature=related
Granny makes a decision which has no relevance regarding what you appear
to think is right and wrong.

When you can definitively define right and wrong to my, or anyone elses,
satisfaction come back.

Apologies to anyone except marie who thinks I went over the top there.

gary (afp contentious bastard with a UU rosette on the back of his hat)

[Chris Zakes]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 22:54:47 +0100, an orbital mind-control laser
caused Kevin Wells <k...@kevsoft.co.uk> to write:

>In message <slrnjvoup6....@mbp55.local>
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>>In message <tk4ov7ponaslf141m...@4ax.com>
>> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:10:22 +0000 (UTC), an orbital mind-control
>>> laser caused Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> to write:
>>
>>>>In message <vl4nv7l5mml2gaob9...@4ax.com>
>>>> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Granny plays a hand of poker with Death and wins the life of the baby.
>>>>
>>>>FSVO of wins, as I recall..
>>>>
>>>>"AH. ALL I HAVE IS FOUR ONES."
>>
>>> Granny had four queens. I don't know much about poker, but I'm pretty
>>> sure that four queens beats four ones.
>>
>>You *don't* know much about poker. :)
>>
>>"Ones" are Aces, and are the highest card in poker.
>>
>
>

>But were they playing poker or Cripple Mister Onion the popular
>Discworld card game?

Definitely poker.

CHALLENGING BY MEANS OF A GAME IS ALLOWABLE.
"Yes."
HOWEVER... YOU UNDERSTAND THAT TO WIN ALL YOU MUST GAMBLE ALL.
"Double or quits? Yes, I know."
BUT NOT CHESS.
"Can't abide chess."
OR CRIPPLE MR. ONION. I'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE RULES.
"Very well. How about one hand of poker? Five cards each, no draw?
Sudden death, as they say."

So maybe Discworld poker has different rules, or maybe Discworld card
decks are organized differently.

[Lesley Weston]

Marie, that's just Gary being Gary in his usual lovable way. Do stay.

I agree that Granny embodies fair and just. As she's matured through the
canon, she's changed from an eccentric old woman with her heart in the
right place to the exemplar of proper behaviour. TP has taken to
repeating her most important maxim: "Evil begins when people start
treating other people as things" in various ways in different books, and
lately he's shown how Tiffany is becoming the same kind of person as she
grows up. He goes to some trouble throughout the books to explain what a
witch really is: a wise woman, midwife, district nurse, psychologist,
social worker and general sorter-out.

Midwives did sometimes have to make the choice between the mother and
the baby back when medicine was still a joke. I guess it went either way
according to the individual midwife's beliefs. Since Granny is the
epitome of good sense, unencumbered by any religious nonsense, she
chooses the mother in that scene. The contest with Death in the other
scene is more about Death (the character) than about morality.

Lesley.

--
This address is real, but to reach me use leswes att shaw dott ca

[Dom]

GaryN wrote:
> Dom <dom...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
> news:VJgLr.781558$pD7.3...@fx21.am4:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> > gary (afp's official "Complete Bastard")
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> - well someone has to be! :-)
>>>
>>> Every froup needs one.
>>>
>>
>> ...and he's so very good at it!
>
> Does this mean that you still love me Dom?
>

Well, since you put it so nicely, yes.

(Just don't let my missus know) ;-)

--
Dom

[GaryN]

Dom <dom...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in news:pJBLr.600597$n02.7588
@fx02.am4:

As long as you don't tell the SO and the new cat wot we agree on. I'm
supposed to love her and at least have an acceptable attitude regarding
him.

[GaryN]

Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:jtmo65$nmm$1...@mud.stack.nl:

<snip>

> Marie, that's just Gary being Gary in his usual lovable way. Do stay.
>
> I agree that Granny embodies fair and just. As she's matured through
> the canon, she's changed from an eccentric old woman with her heart in
> the right place to the exemplar of proper behaviour.

Define.

Anyone regular here knows that I expend a lot of time raising money for
charity.

Did you not notice the valid address?

I used to act with the STC in Briggsys adaptations of Pterrys novels.

And if any of you fuckers want to dive into the RMC in November feel
sodding free. It's cold. If you do try there's a Buck Knife on the
bottom - I cut her free but had to dump it to get her out.

Anyone else want to stand up and admit they've saved a life?

I may be some sorts of shit but I'll risk my life to try and save yours.

Which variety of shit do you prefer?

gary

[GaryN]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote in
news:slrnjvv81d....@mbp55.local:

> In message <knetv79mg3db9ba7u...@4ax.com>

> Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So maybe Discworld poker has different rules, or maybe Discworld card
>> decks are organized differently.
>

> No. It is obvious to anyone reading the book that an *understanding*
> happened there. The whole point of the exchange between Death and
> Granny is that he won, and that she knew he won, and that he was
> willing to claim she won instead.

My understanding was that Death made *HIS* choice according with what
Granny wanted and also what he thought was right, for a given value of
right.

I tend towards the view, given the number of times that I haven't died
when it should have been pretty certain, that Death does things his own
way.

So do we. When my fiancee died it was the right time for her. It hurt,
still does every 23 October at exactly 03:23 and 23 seconds[1], but it
happened when it was right and I was holding her hand to see her off.

If I ever have to play a game against Death I'm going to choose snap. I
know the rules for that.

gary

[1]I couldn't make that up if I tried. That is the precise time she
flatlined in Intensive Care. And I wake up at that exact time and date.

Every bloody year.

The SO understands.

[Lesley Weston]

On 07-12-12 10:13 AM, GaryN wrote:
> Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> news:jtmo65$nmm$1...@mud.stack.nl:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Marie, that's just Gary being Gary in his usual lovable way. Do stay.
>>
>> I agree that Granny embodies fair and just. As she's matured through
>> the canon, she's changed from an eccentric old woman with her heart in
>> the right place to the exemplar of proper behaviour.
>
> Define.

Define proper behaviour? I guess it's NOT treating people as things.
Everything else falls into place once that bit is working.

>
> Anyone regular here knows that I expend a lot of time raising money for
> charity.
>
> Did you not notice the valid address?
>
> I used to act with the STC in Briggsys adaptations of Pterrys novels.
>
> And if any of you fuckers want to dive into the RMC in November feel
> sodding free. It's cold. If you do try there's a Buck Knife on the
> bottom - I cut her free but had to dump it to get her out.
>
> Anyone else want to stand up and admit they've saved a life?
>
> I may be some sorts of shit but I'll risk my life to try and save yours.
>
> Which variety of shit do you prefer?

It's pretty clear that you qualify as a practitioner of Proper
Behaviour. The car was a thing, the woman was not.

[GaryN]

Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in

news:jtp687$2skb$1...@mud.stack.nl:

She's still alive to the best of my knowledge. Must count for
something. Hot soup, roaring fire, and a heavily loaded spliff provided
by Menace may have helped.

Beats the shit out of drowning.

[Chris Zakes]

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:13:50 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser
caused GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> to write:

>Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>news:jtmo65$nmm$1...@mud.stack.nl:
>
><snip>
>
>> Marie, that's just Gary being Gary in his usual lovable way. Do stay.
>>
>> I agree that Granny embodies fair and just. As she's matured through
>> the canon, she's changed from an eccentric old woman with her heart in
>> the right place to the exemplar of proper behaviour.
>
>Define.
>
>Anyone regular here knows that I expend a lot of time raising money for
>charity.
>
>Did you not notice the valid address?
>
>I used to act with the STC in Briggsys adaptations of Pterrys novels.
>
>And if any of you fuckers want to dive into the RMC in November feel
>sodding free. It's cold. If you do try there's a Buck Knife on the
>bottom - I cut her free but had to dump it to get her out.
>
>Anyone else want to stand up and admit they've saved a life?

Not quite as spectacularly as your incident, but these folks tell me
I'm saving lives every time I donate:
http://www.biolifeplasma.com/html/plasma_derived_products/how_it_is_used.html

I donate twice a week, and have been doing so for about 18 years.
That's over 400 gallons of plasma donated.

[GaryN]

Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote in

news:okf108d8rcopmkajg...@4ax.com:

Every bit helps Chris. The more of us that throw a little bit to making
the world slightly better the better the likeliehood of it becoming
better.

I just re-read that sentence and I can't believe I wrote it but I can't
be arsed to change it.

Probably won't happen but if we can stand at the Pearly gates (If you
happen to believe in that stuff) and tell Pete "At least I fucking
tried" then it was worth living.

Probably get thrown out for swearing though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYtq1zoF5Lg&feature=related

The true story about ordnance clearance is, well...

[Lesley Weston]

On 07-13-12 5:43 PM, Chris Zakes wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:13:50 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser
> caused GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> to write:
>
>> Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:jtmo65$nmm$1...@mud.stack.nl:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Marie, that's just Gary being Gary in his usual lovable way. Do stay.
>>>
>>> I agree that Granny embodies fair and just. As she's matured through
>>> the canon, she's changed from an eccentric old woman with her heart in
>>> the right place to the exemplar of proper behaviour.
>>
>> Define.
>>
>> Anyone regular here knows that I expend a lot of time raising money for
>> charity.
>>
>> Did you not notice the valid address?
>>
>> I used to act with the STC in Briggsys adaptations of Pterrys novels.
>>
>> And if any of you fuckers want to dive into the RMC in November feel
>> sodding free. It's cold. If you do try there's a Buck Knife on the
>> bottom - I cut her free but had to dump it to get her out.
>>
>> Anyone else want to stand up and admit they've saved a life?
>
> Not quite as spectacularly as your incident, but these folks tell me
> I'm saving lives every time I donate:
> http://www.biolifeplasma.com/html/plasma_derived_products/how_it_is_used.html
>
> I donate twice a week, and have been doing so for about 18 years.
> That's over 400 gallons of plasma donated.

Twice a week? How much do they take each time?

[Robert Carnegie]

Evidently 0.22 of whichever gallons are used, but
since the next page on the left says "Your body
contains approximately 12 pints of whole blood",
it must mean the kindergarten gallons used in
the U.S. And they give you your blood back,
dried out. I'm assuming.

[Geoff Field]

In Australia, plasma donations can only occur every two weeks (per person).
It takes about an hour a time. They basically take out the whole blood,
separate
the plasma component and then pump the remaining liquids (red blood cells,
etc) back in through the same tube. I'm not sure of the exact volume taken.

Personally, I've only done whole blood donations. That's 470ml per
donation,
once every three months in Australia. My last donation was my 81st. At my
current rate, I'll be at 100 whole blood donations within about five more
years.
After that, I'll consider taking the extra time to do plasma.

Geoff


--
Geoff Field
Professional Geek,
Amateur Stage-Levelling Gauge

[Free Lunch]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:35:36 +1000, "Geoff Field"
<geoff...@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:

>Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:02:19 PM UTC+1, Lesley Weston wrote:
>>> On 07-13-12 5:43 PM, Chris Zakes wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:13:50 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser
>>>> caused GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> to write:
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone else want to stand up and admit they've saved a life?
>>>>
>>>> Not quite as spectacularly as your incident, but these folks tell me
>>>> I'm saving lives every time I donate:
>>>> http://www.biolifeplasma.com/html/plasma_derived_products/how_it_is_used.html
>>>>
>>>> I donate twice a week, and have been doing so for about 18 years.
>>>> That's over 400 gallons of plasma donated.
>>>
>>> Twice a week? How much do they take each time?
>>
>> Evidently 0.22 of whichever gallons are used, but
>> since the next page on the left says "Your body
>> contains approximately 12 pints of whole blood",
>> it must mean the kindergarten gallons used in
>> the U.S. And they give you your blood back,
>> dried out. I'm assuming.
>
>In Australia, plasma donations can only occur every two weeks (per person).
>It takes about an hour a time. They basically take out the whole blood,
>separate
>the plasma component and then pump the remaining liquids (red blood cells,
>etc) back in through the same tube. I'm not sure of the exact volume taken.

It's a similar amount to that of whole blood, but in the US they just
call it units. Some systems take it out of one arm and put it back in
the other.

>Personally, I've only done whole blood donations. That's 470ml per
>donation,

In the US we call it a pint, though I think for whole blood we only give
450, plus a bunch of 5 ml vials.

>once every three months in Australia.

Every eight weeks, US.

>My last donation was my 81st.

Congratulations. We call 80 of them 10 gallons.

[Chris Zakes]

880 ml. But note that this is just plasma--which is mostly water--not
whole blood.

They stick a needle in my arm, a machine extracts some blood, runs it
through a centrifuge to get the plasma out and then returns the red
cells to my body, rinse and repeat. At the end they insert 880 ml of
saline to replace the volume of plasma taken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmapheresis#As_a_manufacturing_process

For me it takes about eight or nine cycles of the machine, or about an
hour on the table.

[Chris Zakes]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:35:36 +1000, an orbital mind-control laser
caused "Geoff Field" <geoff...@hotmail.com> to write:

>Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:02:19 PM UTC+1, Lesley Weston wrote:
>>> On 07-13-12 5:43 PM, Chris Zakes wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:13:50 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser
>>>> caused GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> to write:
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone else want to stand up and admit they've saved a life?
>>>>
>>>> Not quite as spectacularly as your incident, but these folks tell me
>>>> I'm saving lives every time I donate:
>>>> http://www.biolifeplasma.com/html/plasma_derived_products/how_it_is_used.html
>>>>
>>>> I donate twice a week, and have been doing so for about 18 years.
>>>> That's over 400 gallons of plasma donated.
>>>
>>> Twice a week? How much do they take each time?
>>
>> Evidently 0.22 of whichever gallons are used, but
>> since the next page on the left says "Your body
>> contains approximately 12 pints of whole blood",
>> it must mean the kindergarten gallons used in
>> the U.S. And they give you your blood back,
>> dried out. I'm assuming.

Nope, stiill liquid. Putting dried red blood cells back into a body
would be pretty tricky.

>In Australia, plasma donations can only occur every two weeks (per person).
>It takes about an hour a time. They basically take out the whole blood,
>separate
>the plasma component and then pump the remaining liquids (red blood cells,
>etc) back in through the same tube. I'm not sure of the exact volume taken.
>
>Personally, I've only done whole blood donations. That's 470ml per
>donation,
>once every three months in Australia. My last donation was my 81st. At my
>current rate, I'll be at 100 whole blood donations within about five more
>years.
>After that, I'll consider taking the extra time to do plasma.
>
>Geoff

Dunno about the rules in Australia, but up here, you can donate blood
*or* plasma, but not both--at least not in the same timeframe. You'd
have to wait 8 weeks after donating blood before you could donate
plasma. I'm not sure how soon you could donate blood after donating
plasma.

[GaryN]

"Geoff Field" <geoff...@hotmail.com> wrote in

news:WumMr.14087$Kb4....@newsfe20.iad:

<snip>

> Personally, I've only done whole blood donations. That's 470ml per
> donation,
> once every three months in Australia. My last donation was my 81st.
> At my current rate, I'll be at 100 whole blood donations within about
> five more years.
> After that, I'll consider taking the extra time to do plasma.
>
> Geoff
>
>

I would sign up for an organ donor card and/or donate blood but I can't
think of anyone except Tony Blair that I hate enough to inflict my
irrevocably damaged organs on.

[Lesley Weston]

I used to donate whole blood every few months, whenever my haemaglobin
levels were acceptable to the blood people. I'm O-Negative, which makes
my blood useful. Nobody mentioned taking just the plasma and giving back
the cells, which would have meant I could have contributed more often.

Then AIDs happened to the world, with the panicky response. Getting
through the vastly-expanded questionnaires and the interviews before
actually giving the blood took at least two hours, by which time the
meal that I had eaten just before the half-hour drive to the Red Cross
place [1] had worn off and I was at risk of fainting (something I used
to go in for). So my last donation was years ago. They wouldn't want my
blood now anyway, since I've had cancer.

It would have been much safer and far less difficult if they had
continued to take the blood from anybody who was offering it, had enough
haemaglobin and wasn't ill or taking certain drugs, and then taken a
little to test while freezing the rest of it down. That way, they would
have had a lot more blood available from people like me and also from
gay people, and the Hep C thing wouldn't have happened.

[1] Later the Government place, after the huge scandals concerning
hepatitis C had made the Red Cross so unpopular. Same people doing the
same jobs, same volunteers, same biscuits and sugary juice, just an even
longer delay.

[Lesley Weston]

On 07-14-12 8:25 PM, Chris Zakes wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:35:36 +1000, an orbital mind-control laser
> caused "Geoff Field" <geoff...@hotmail.com> to write:
>
>> Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>> On Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:02:19 PM UTC+1, Lesley Weston wrote:
>>>> On 07-13-12 5:43 PM, Chris Zakes wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:13:50 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser
>>>>> caused GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> to write:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone else want to stand up and admit they've saved a life?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not quite as spectacularly as your incident, but these folks tell me
>>>>> I'm saving lives every time I donate:
>>>>> http://www.biolifeplasma.com/html/plasma_derived_products/how_it_is_used.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I donate twice a week, and have been doing so for about 18 years.
>>>>> That's over 400 gallons of plasma donated.
>>>>
>>>> Twice a week? How much do they take each time?
>>>
>>> Evidently 0.22 of whichever gallons are used, but
>>> since the next page on the left says "Your body
>>> contains approximately 12 pints of whole blood",
>>> it must mean the kindergarten gallons used in
>>> the U.S. And they give you your blood back,
>>> dried out. I'm assuming.
>
> Nope, stiill liquid. Putting dried red blood cells back into a body
> would be pretty tricky.

They re-suspend the cells in saline, presumably.

[Lesley Weston]

That's a brilliant idea! They weren't doing it in my blood-donating
days, at least not around here.

[larry]

About my twentieth (and final,) donation, I passed out on the sidewalk,
outside, after. The next time I went in to donate, I was refused.

This was twenty years ago - about the time that the tightened
regulations hit.

[Jonathan Ellis]

"larry" <sshirl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a6dndW02vLUnZ7N...@wightman.ca...

I've never donated blood. Considered it at one stage a few years ago. But
then I heard it said - I don't know whether it's an official policy or an
unfounded rumour - that they're unlikely to take it from insulin-dependent
diabetics because of the whole needle thing, even though we never share and
most of us are much more careful with our health than the average person
(not that it always helps).

-- Jonathan.

[Nigel Stapley]

They won't take it from us (at least not in the yUK), I think primarily
because of the presence of the 'manufactured' insulin in our systems.

--
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.thejudge.me.uk

<reply-to will bounce>

[larry]

Casual survey - you might be able to give, depending upon your
medical health, otherwise,
Seems to depend upon which service's rules you have to follow.

[Free Lunch]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 22:34:12 +0100, "Jonathan Ellis"
<jle3...@gmail.com> wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:

I just took the American Red Cross 40+ question test on whether I should
be allowed to donate, and there weren't any questions about that. The
only needle questions were about drugs that had not been prescribed.

Does anyone think that those who are willing to be drug addicts will be
honest on this self-assessment? Why does the FDA insist on such
time-wasting nonsense?

[Free Lunch]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 22:59:59 +0100, Nigel Stapley
<un...@judgemental.plus.com> wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:

The FDA-required questionnaire in the US that the American Red Cross
inflicts on donors seems to be particularly concerned about anyone who
has spent time in the UK. Presumably they think that everyone got Mad
Cow disease.

[Chris Zakes]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:16:36 -0700, an orbital mind-control laser

caused Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> to write:

>On 07-14-12 8:25 PM, Chris Zakes wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:35:36 +1000, an orbital mind-control laser
>> caused "Geoff Field" <geoff...@hotmail.com> to write:
>>
>>> Robert Carnegie wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:02:19 PM UTC+1, Lesley Weston wrote:
>>>>> On 07-13-12 5:43 PM, Chris Zakes wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:13:50 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser
>>>>>> caused GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> to write:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone else want to stand up and admit they've saved a life?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not quite as spectacularly as your incident, but these folks tell me
>>>>>> I'm saving lives every time I donate:
>>>>>> http://www.biolifeplasma.com/html/plasma_derived_products/how_it_is_used.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I donate twice a week, and have been doing so for about 18 years.
>>>>>> That's over 400 gallons of plasma donated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Twice a week? How much do they take each time?
>>>>
>>>> Evidently 0.22 of whichever gallons are used, but
>>>> since the next page on the left says "Your body
>>>> contains approximately 12 pints of whole blood",
>>>> it must mean the kindergarten gallons used in
>>>> the U.S. And they give you your blood back,
>>>> dried out. I'm assuming.
>>

>> Nope, still liquid. Putting dried red blood cells back into a body

>> would be pretty tricky.
>
>They re-suspend the cells in saline, presumably.
>
>Lesley.

I don't think so. There's a bit of some anticoagulent fluid mixed with
the blood to make sure it keeps flowing, but the saline isn't used
until the end of the process.

[Chris Zakes]

At the place I donate, they *used* to ask about time spent in Europe,
but they don't any more.

Most of the questions are about having sex with other guys, illegal
drug use, having spent more that 72 hours in jail or prison, using
specific medications, testing positive for AIDS or recent tattoos or
body piercings.

[Nigel Stapley]

Perhaps because she was re-elected twice.

[Bernard Peek]

On 15/07/12 23:31, Free Lunch wrote:


> The FDA-required questionnaire in the US that the American Red Cross
> inflicts on donors seems to be particularly concerned about anyone who
> has spent time in the UK. Presumably they think that everyone got Mad
> Cow disease.

Possibly. In the UK we aren't allowed to donate if we have visited the US.



--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com

[Robert Carnegie]

On Sunday, July 15, 2012 4:25:11 AM UTC+1, Chris Zakes wrote:
> >Robert Carnegie wrote:
> >> On Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:02:19 PM UTC+1, Lesley Weston wrote:
> >>> On 07-13-12 5:43 PM, Chris Zakes wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 12:13:50 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser
> >>>> caused GaryN <webm...@oxtoyrun.org.uk> to write:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Anyone else want to stand up and admit they've saved a life?
> >>>>
> >>>> Not quite as spectacularly as your incident, but these folks tell me
> >>>> I'm saving lives every time I donate:
> >>>> http://www.biolifeplasma.com/html/plasma_derived_products/how_it_is_used.html
> >>>>
> >>>> I donate twice a week, and have been doing so for about 18 years.
> >>>> That's over 400 gallons of plasma donated.
> >>>
> >>> Twice a week? How much do they take each time?
> >>
> >> Evidently 0.22 of whichever gallons are used, but
> >> since the next page on the left says "Your body
> >> contains approximately 12 pints of whole blood",
> >> it must mean the kindergarten gallons used in
> >> the U.S. And they give you your blood back,
> >> dried out. I'm assuming.
>

> Nope, still liquid. Putting dried red blood cells back into a body
> would be pretty tricky.

Well, thicker. Sort of ketchupy. Right? :-)

[Chris Zakes]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2012 17:30:06 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser

caused Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> to write:

You might be surprised. I've heard stories of people calling 911 to
complain about someone stealing their (illegal) drugs. At that level
of stupidity, I can easily see someone answering questions about drug
addiction honestly.

-Chris Zakes
Texas
--

We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we
stop playing.

-Origin unknown

[Chris Zakes]

Just visited? That's weird. Over here, Biolife Plasma Services had no
problem with me spending a month in the UK back in 2003. (Although
they *did* defer a friend who'd lived in Germany for several years
back in the '80s.)

[Lesley Weston]

I don't know if it's true or not. But it seems likely, given the general
hysteria about it all. If they would just stop insulting their would-be
benefactors and instead test the blood before using it...

[Lesley Weston]

They would have to replace the plasma with something before putting the
rbc and the various other components of blood back in. Saline seems the
most likely, perhaps with a little glucose to maintain blood-sugar levels.

[Free Lunch]

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 06:38:28 +0100, Nigel Stapley

Well noted.

[Free Lunch]

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 06:50:25 -0500, Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:

You win.

I know a DA who told me that there was an area that didn't have a lot of
problems with meth, though they had a great deal of problems with
oxycontin (which had been brought in from Florida). He speculated that
those druggies were too lazy to try to make meth.

[Free Lunch]

On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 07:21:07 -0700, Lesley Weston
<brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:

I'm a regular donor, but I will be thrilled when artificial blood
exists. The current system is sad, even if it is more-or-less the best
available.

[Jonathan Ellis]

"Free Lunch" <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote in message
news:q67908lfjfoua7avg...@4ax.com...

So was Blair, and considerably more recently.

[Free Lunch]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 00:36:27 +0100, "Jonathan Ellis"
<jle3...@gmail.com> wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:

I know how the US got two conservative parties. How did the UK get
three?

[Chris Zakes]

Quite possibly, but it's in a plastic tube, so it's a little hard to
tell. Besides, I'm usually busy reading, and with the plasmapherisis
machines they use now, you can't see what's going on
anyway--everything is above my eye level when I'm on the doantion
table.

[Nigel Stapley]

'Triangulation'. Or, as it used to be called, 'surrender'.

[daniel goldsmith]

On 2012-07-17, Nigel Stapley <un...@judgemental.plus.com> wrote:

> Free Lunch wrote:
>>
>> I know how the US got two conservative parties. How did the UK get
>> three?
>
> 'Triangulation'. Or, as it used to be called, 'surrender'.

More like "focus on the focus group". Labour had a glorious leader.
He was young, energetic, from good Labour Stock, charismatic and an
absolute dynamo on the Dispatch Box. He campaigned tirelessly against
restrictions on the NHS, against Tory Housing Policy, against UK
pandering to external forces. He eviscerated the Major government at
every turn, and was poised to win the 1997 election at a canter.

Then he died, and the rat Blair took over the party, bringing with
him his cabinet of slime and grease in the form of Alastair Campbell,
Peter Mandelson and the rest of it. He pandered to the Murdochian
right-wing press, abandoned the core value of the Labour Party and
adopted every gad-about trend as the new value of the Party.

Blair won that election, by a massive majority. He then proceeded to
destroy the entire legacy of the Labour Party in his decade in power.
From ordering the ending of the singing of The Red Flag to ordering
British Troops into Iraq, Blair gutted the Labour Party of ever iota
of the remnant of Socialism which it still had.

The LibDems and the Tories were always conservative parties, the
former once stood for a kind of Toryism Lite back in the day when
there were still Whigs. They advocated a basic level of Welfare State
as a method of keeping the unwashed happy, unlike the Tories who'd be
in favour of just shooting the lot.



--
Protected by their camouflage, the New International Militant Hedgehogs
__o __o __o __o (NIMH) Approach their Target
'/ '/ '/ '/ _____________________________________________________
*Daniel Goldsmith. Reply-to/Homepage in Headers*

[Lesley Weston]

Around here all cattle are called cows.

[Geoff Field]

Chris Zakes wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:11:29 +0100, an orbital mind-control laser
> caused Bernard Peek <b...@shrdlu.com> to write:
>
>> On 15/07/12 23:31, Free Lunch wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The FDA-required questionnaire in the US that the American Red Cross
>>> inflicts on donors seems to be particularly concerned about anyone
>>> who has spent time in the UK. Presumably they think that everyone
>>> got Mad Cow disease.
>>
>> Possibly. In the UK we aren't allowed to donate if we have visited
>> the US.
>
> Just visited? That's weird. Over here, Biolife Plasma Services had no
> problem with me spending a month in the UK back in 2003. (Although
> they *did* defer a friend who'd lived in Germany for several years
> back in the '80s.)

In Australia, they reject you as a donor if you've spent 6 months or more
in the UK. Any time in any sort of lockup also causes rejection.

As well as the questionaire, there's the 100% sampling for HIV/Hep/etc
testing - just in case.

Geoff

--
Geoff Field
Professional Geek,
Amateur Stage-Levelling Gauge