[I] Edinburgh bool festival
Lister
Book Festival?
--
"Much as it pains me to admit it, my brother and I
spent a good twenty minutes weeing on each
other in the loos in the basement..."
Tim Miller, ugvm ----- www.ugvm.org.uk
Brian Wakeling
Lister <fa...@blueyonder.co.uk> typed:
> Why not have a Discworld convention as part of Edinburgh
> International Book Festival?
These are not official reasons, but they are probably still
reasons:
1 The regular DWCon is usually scheduled right in the middle of
August anyway.
2 The regular DWCon is usually somewhere in the middle of
England, the theory being that it's much easier and cheaper for
everyone to get to Rugby (for example) than it is to get to
Edinburgh.
3 The population of Edinburgh *doubles* during the month of
August, because you have six, count them, *six* festivals on
there all at once: The International Festival, The Book Festival,
The Fringe Festival, The Film Festival, The Tattoo, and The Music
Festival. Finding anywhere with enough room to host a DWCon in
the middle of all that is going to be nigh-on impossible, and the
prices would be astronomical. I just happen to have a carrier bag
detailing performance venues with me, and of a listed total of 70
venues, only 11 are of a suitably large capacity, and of those,
*none* are hotels, 3 are misc. function rooms for hire, 2 are
converted churches, 1 is a tent in a field, 1 is a college
quadrangle, 2 are theatres, 1 is the grounds of a stately home,
and 1 is a nightclub. Rough hire rates for these venues would be
£500 per 2 hours.
Somehow, I don't think it'll ever happen.
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
"Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the
hell happened."
David Chapman
> The regular DWCon is usually somewhere in the middle of
> England, the theory being that it's much easier and cheaper for
> everyone to get to Rugby (for example) than it is to get to
> Edinburgh.
Speak for your own everyone, mate.
--
I believe in animal testing.
<thud>
<meow!>
That's a cat.
Brian Howlett
> Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
> > The regular DWCon is usually somewhere in the middle of
> > England, the theory being that it's much easier and cheaper for
> > everyone to get to Rugby (for example) than it is to get to
> > Edinburgh.
>
> Speak for your own everyone, mate.
>
What he said...
--
Brian Howlett
-------------------------------------------------------------
People who live in glass houses should undress in the dark...
grahamafforda...@hotmail.com
Re: [I] Edinburgh bool festival
Or Not!
Cheers,
Graham.
Sylvain Chambon
grahamafforda...@hotmail.com says...
> Re: [I] Edinburgh bool festival
>
> Or Not!
Ah; thank you. I was wondering if someone would be silly enough to make
that joke[1].
S.
[1] Because otherwise I'd have had to do it!
Brian Wakeling
Brian Howlett <Brian_...@btinternet.com> typed:
> On 5 Sep, "David Chapman" <nos...@nospam.gro> wrote:
>
>> Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
>>> The regular DWCon is usually somewhere in the middle of
>>> England, the theory being that it's much easier and cheaper
>>> for everyone to get to Rugby (for example) than it is to get
>>> to Edinburgh.
>>
>> Speak for your own everyone, mate.
>>
> What he said...
Note the words "in theory". I know where Rugby is, and know how
hard it is to get there.
Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
to, than is a location at one end of the country.
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
"A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory."
David Chapman
> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which are
neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
David Jensen
<3f59e5a4$0$246$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com>:
>Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
>
>> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
>> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
>> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
>
>Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
>
>On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which are
>neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
Washington, Berlin, Paris, London (unless you think the Thames estuary
is part of the coast), Ottawa, Moscow, off the top of my head.
Lister
wrote:
>Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
>
>> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
>> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
>> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
>
>Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
But london is NOT central, not when you're talking about Scotland too.
After all, Central to us is Edinburgh. Why not hold it somewhere
roughly equidistant? Like Yorkshire
Andrew Gray
> Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
>
>> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
>> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
>> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
>
> Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
No, that's because outside the M25 is either farmland or barren wastes
inhabited by polar bears. Duh.
> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which are
> neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
"Centre" is a bit vauge, because you can make a case that what is
clearly not geographically central (eg/ Canberra) is in fact central
from a population POV - if memory serves, most of the Australian
population is in the E/SE.
Vienna's very close to the border, ditto Sofia, and Ottowa's arguably
another case of Canberra. Same for Cairo, now I think about it, and a
lot of other African/S. American countries with large empty hinterlands.
I think the bulk of the French population is in the north, along with
Paris, and Berlin's pretty non-central... it may be worth noting that
for many European countries, the capital is historic, and came as much
from whichever minor nation had it originally and grew to swallow the
others, as anything else. Anyway, there's a quick selection :-)
--
-Andrew Gray
shim...@bigfoot.com
Andrew Gray
>
> Washington, Berlin, Paris, London (unless you think the Thames estuary
> is part of the coast)
To all intents and purposes, London is - it (used to be) a major
seaport, which is the general reasoning behind "coastal".
(And, when Washington was laid down, it was pretty central...)
--
-Andrew Gray
shim...@bigfoot.com
Eric Jarvis
>
> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which are
> neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
>
Paris, Praha, Budapest, Beograd, Wien, Brussels, Sofia, Bucharesti,
Moskva...off the top of my head and restricting myself to Europe...you
could count one or two of them as central or coastal I suppose, by doing
things like assuming Siberia doesn't exist, or that the Danube counts as a
sea not a river
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"Hey Lord don't ask me questions
There ain't no answer in me"
Sylvain Chambon
bpwak...@hotmail.com says...
> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
Well, sort of.
I think it all boils down to, "it's cheaper", full stop. I mean, big
cities tend to be well-connected to the transportation network; it's
much easier (and probably cheaper) for me to fly to Edinburgh than to
hop to East Midland then take a bus, one or two trains and a taxi to
Hinckley. I suspect it's easier for many other people too[1].
But suitable locations (hotels...) in big cities are damn expensive. The
only way to hold something the size of a DWCon[2] is to go out of the
way. And then, it's easier to go to an out-of-the-way place in the
middle of the country than an out-of-the-way place in the middle of
nowhere.
Personally, I prefer a Con in Hinckley to one in, say, (looks at map)
Ullapool.
(No offense meant to Ullapool inhabitants. I'm sure your city is very
pretty and welcoming).
Sylvain.
[1] I don't know the UK/Furrinia ratio of attendance to Cons, but I'd be
surprised if it is more than 2/1. I'd bet on 50% or something.
[2] Needs a big hotel with many function rooms, hasn't got the budget of
a WorldCon.
Sylvain Chambon
nos...@nospam.gro says...
> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which are
> neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
Paris. Washington DC. Moscow. Bucarest. Sarajevo. Berlin. Vilnius.
Sylvain.
David Chapman
> David Chapman wrote:
>>
>> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which
>> are neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
>>
>
> Paris, Praha, Budapest, Beograd, Wien, Brussels, Sofia, Bucharesti,
> Moskva...off the top of my head and restricting myself to Europe...you
> could count one or two of them as central or coastal I suppose, by
> doing things like assuming Siberia doesn't exist, or that the Danube
> counts as a sea not a river
My opinion on rivers: if you can't easily kill someone on the other side
with a rifle, it's wide enough to allow a port.
Peter Ellis
>Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
>
>> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
>> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
>> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
>
>Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
>
>On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which are
>neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
Depends what you count as coastal. It takes a significant amount of
travel to start from London and end up in the sea - but you want to
call London coastal? I certainly wouldn't. It may be on a tidal
river, but that's not the came as the coast. And how approximate is
that "roughly"?
Anyway, how's about Washington DC, Moscow, Paris, Berlin, New Delhi,
Beijing.
That covers almost all the world's population, money and political
power.
Then, there's Kabul, Islamabad, Tehran, Sanaa, Tashkent, Astana,
Bishkek, Damascus, Amman, Thimphu, Phnomh Penh, Viangchan, Hanoi, Kuala
Lumpur, Pyongyang, Seoul, Canberra, Vilnius, Kiev, Bucharest, Sofia,
Skopje, Sarajevo, Vienna, Ottawa, Guatemala, Managua, Quito, Brasilia,
Asuncion, Cairo, Niamey, N'Djamena, Bangui, Yaoundé, Brazzaville,
Kinshasa, Kampala, Bujumbura, Nairobi, Harare, Gaborone, Pretoria,
Maseru and Mbabane.
About three of the African ones are on the shores of lakes large enough
that you could consider them coastal, but then I left out quite a lot
of cases where you can't easily define the centre of a country - e.g.
Croatia.
Simply put, I'd say that the cases where the capital is coastal or near
the geographical centre of the country are in fact the exception rather
than the rule.
Peter
Lister
<sgpch...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <bjce73$ffeop$1...@ID-188625.news.uni-berlin.de>,
>bpwak...@hotmail.com says...
>
>> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
>> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
>> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
>
>Well, sort of.
>
>I think it all boils down to, "it's cheaper", full stop. I mean, big
>cities tend to be well-connected to the transportation network; it's
>much easier (and probably cheaper) for me to fly to Edinburgh than to
>hop to East Midland then take a bus, one or two trains and a taxi to
>Hinckley. I suspect it's easier for many other people too[1].
>
>But suitable locations (hotels...) in big cities are damn expensive. The
>only way to hold something the size of a DWCon[2] is to go out of the
>way. And then, it's easier to go to an out-of-the-way place in the
>middle of the country than an out-of-the-way place in the middle of
>nowhere.
>
I could do some costing for you, if you want, how many people on
average attend a DW con?
Mary Messall
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:15:18 +0100, "David Chapman" <nos...@nospam.gro>
> wrote:
> >Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
> >> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
> >> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
> >> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
> >Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
I'm pretty sure that was sarcastic.
> But london is NOT central, not when you're talking about Scotland too.
> After all, Central to us is Edinburgh. Why not hold it somewhere
> roughly equidistant? Like Yorkshire.
Population distribution?
-Mary
Jens Ayton
> David Chapman:
>>
>> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which
>> are neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
>
> Paris. Washington DC. Moscow. Bucarest. Sarajevo. Berlin. Vilnius.
Mbabane. Pretoria.
--
\\\\ Jens "not Jen" Ayton Fratello di Vetinari
\\\\\__, Bringing sarcastic one-liners to the common hedgehog since 1999
\\\\\`/ No, I'm not back. You're just imagining it. The very idea! Huh!
David Chapman
> nos...@nospam.gro wrote:
>> Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
>>
>>> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
>>> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
>>> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
>>
>> Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
>>
>> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which
>> are neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
>
> Depends what you count as coastal. It takes a significant amount of
> travel to start from London and end up in the sea - but you want to
> call London coastal? I certainly wouldn't. It may be on a tidal
> river, but that's not the came as the coast. And how approximate is
> that "roughly"?
It would be more accurate to say, "is not a port".
Peter Ellis
Righto. Port on a big lake, or does it have to be an international
port? You might have managed to exclude a couple of my list, notably a
couple round the lakes in Africa and the ones on the Danube.
That still leaves Washington, Moscow, Berlin, Paris, Berlin, Beijing,
New Delhi, Ottawa and a host of others.
The above few alone (well, their countries) cover something like 80% of
the world's population, all bar one of the permanent members of the UN
Security Council and four of the G7 nations.
Peter
Brian Howlett
[snip]
>
> Personally, I prefer a Con in Hinckley to one in, say, (looks at map)
> Ullapool.
>
> (No offense meant to Ullapool inhabitants. I'm sure your city is very
> pretty and welcoming).
>
[snip]
I'm sure the people of Ullapool would be surprised to hear they live in
a city - total population at the 2001 Census [1] was 1731...
...and probably ten times as many sheep...
[1] <URL:http://www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/iandr/cen/sz/ullapool.htm>
--
Brian Howlett
-------------------------------
Heart of gold, nerves of steel,
knob of butter...
Eric Jarvis
hmm?...maybe not what it was even fifty years ago...but unless the London
Borough of Newham has been secretly ceded to Essex London is still a port
there are damn good reasons for holding more events outside of
London...you are barking up the wrong tree though...they are that there is
already too much going on in London for the infrastructure to cope
comfortably with, and that it is fairer (and more interesting) to spread
stuff around a bit...above all, London is too expensive
the reason things will continue to happen in London in preference to
elsewhere in the country is that the first of those reasons apply to the
overall situation and when the decision is made it's only the third that
is considered...throw in the cost of travelling by train and the fact that
the main international airports are all in the London area and it's no
surprise that too many things end up happening here
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"I am a man of many parts,
unfortunately most are no longer in stock"
Daibhid Ceannaideach
>Date: 06/09/03 19:37 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <MPG.19c439afb...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>
>
>David Chapman wrote:
>> Peter Ellis did not say this. Peter Ellis was not here:
>> > nos...@nospam.gro wrote:
>> >> Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
>> >> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which
>> >> are neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
>> >
>> > Depends what you count as coastal. It takes a significant amount of
>> > travel to start from London and end up in the sea - but you want to
>> > call London coastal? I certainly wouldn't. It may be on a tidal
>> > river, but that's not the came as the coast. And how approximate is
>> > that "roughly"?
>>
>> It would be more accurate to say, "is not a port".
>>
>
>hmm?...maybe not what it was even fifty years ago...but unless the London
>Borough of Newham has been secretly ceded to Essex London is still a port
I think David means the original question should have been "...is not a port,
or roughly in the centre of the country?"
--
Dave
Now Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc for FOUR years
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"We have no listing for the Cult of Fish in Edinburgh."
The Number 118-118, asked for the number of the Court of Session.
Kevin Ballard
> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
That is, of course, assuming that the country has an equal population
density across the entirety of it. I personally believe the best location
would be the place where the average time taken for any given person in
the country, taking into account population density, is the lowest. For
example, if a country has 2/3rds of the population living on the
right-hand side of it, then the location would be much closer to that side
than to the other.
Given all that, a) I do not live in Europe, and b) I have no idea what the
population density of England, or any other european country is.
--
Kevin Ballard
http://www.tildesoft.com
Peter Ellis
>On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Brian Wakeling wrote:
>
>> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location is
>> easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to get
>> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
>
>That is, of course, assuming that the country has an equal population
>density across the entirety of it. I personally believe the best location
>would be the place where the average time taken for any given person in
>the country, taking into account population density, is the lowest.
More sensibly, average cost. However then bear also in mind that
asking 500 people to pay £5 extra each is reasonable, while making 50
person pay £50 more each may well effectively exclude them. You need
to look at minimum and maximum as well as the average.
The DWCon location's about as good a compromise as you get.
Peter
Brian Wakeling
Lister <fa...@blueyonder.co.uk> typed:
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:15:18 +0100, "David Chapman"
> <nos...@nospam.gro> wrote:
>
>> Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
>>
>>> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location
>>> is easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to
>>> get
>>> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
>>
>> Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
>
>
> But london is NOT central, not when you're talking about
> Scotland too. After all, Central to us is Edinburgh. Why not
> hold it somewhere roughly equidistant? Like Yorkshire
Leeds is roughly the middle of the country - 200 miles from
London, 200 miles from Edinburgh, 70 miles from the east coast
and 70 miles from the west coast. It is also the termination
point of one (maybe two) motorways, the point through which
virtually all trains in West Yorkshire pass, and has a minor
international airport. However, that does not necessarily make it
easier to get to - from Bath for example, it's a four hour train
journey via Birmingham and Manchester. Leeds is a hell of a lot
easier to get to from the east of the Pennines than the west of
them, as is most of the rest of the country.
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
"Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have."
- Steven Wright (apparently)
Brian Wakeling
David Chapman <nos...@nospam.gro> typed:
> Brian Wakeling did not say this. Brian Wakeling was not here:
>
>> Nevertheless, established thinking is that a central location
>> is easier and cheaper for people from all over the country to
>> get
>> to, than is a location at one end of the country.
>
> Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
Well, there's the Edinburgh Festivals for a start, then there's
the Snooker World Championships at the Crucible in Sheffield, the
annual National Car Show at the Birmingham National Exhibition
Centre, The Grand National at Aintree (I think), the National
Student Drama Festival in Scarborough, and these days, every
international football match and cup final is anywhere *but*
London.
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
"Change is inevitable, except from vending machines."
Brian Wakeling
Sylvain Chambon <sgpch...@yahoo.com> typed:
I thought Vilnius was a coastal city?
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
Cycling home 12 miles every night after theatre gives you a lot
of time for introspection.
I don't want introspection, I want a bloody car!
Brian Wakeling
Peter Ellis <pj...@cam.ac.uk> typed:
> nos...@nospam.gro wrote:
<snip>
<nit-pick>
To the best of my knowledge, there are somewhere in the region of
140 countries on the planet. You named just over 50 cities. So
two-thirds of the world's capital cities are the exception?
Hmm...
</nit-pick>
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
"Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?"
Brian Wakeling
Sylvain Chambon <sgpch...@yahoo.com> typed:
I used to live in Hinckley. It has got a railway station and a
gasometer. Any other information about the place will have to be
extracted by hypnotic regression, because I was six when we moved
away, and I've not been back in the 19 years since.
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
"How many of you believe in telekinesis? Raise my hand..."
Sanity
> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which are
> neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
important harbour, I wouldn't call it coastal. Nor Amsterdam right now,
but that used to be. Oh, and what constitutes 'central'? Paris isn't
centrally located within the French borders, but it is centrally located
in terms of (rail)roads.
I think most capitals are in the centre of the country, perhaps not like
the centre of a circle but more central in the way of government,
services, transport, and the mind of people. Most countries that have a
bit of sea usually have their capitals near there, because
trade=money=power=capital. Only countries that have artificical capitals
stray from that. Think of Brasilia in Brazil and Canberra in Australia.
TTFN,
Michel AKA Sanity
(not in front of his map right now, unfortunately)
--
"Sanity shall make ye -ing fret": | "A cat has 40 million hairs: 5
www.affordable-prawns.co.uk | million on its back, 10 million on
www.affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk | its belly, and 25 million on your
Check the AFPChess Tournament! | couch." --Midas Dekkers
Alec Cawley
<sanityDE...@affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk> writes
>In a galaxy far away from home, I saw this article by David Chapman
>(nos...@nospam.gro):
>> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which are
>> neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
>
>Depend on what you see as "coastal". Though London was (is?) an
>important harbour, I wouldn't call it coastal. Nor Amsterdam right now,
>but that used to be. Oh, and what constitutes 'central'? Paris isn't
>centrally located within the French borders, but it is centrally located
>in terms of (rail)roads.
>
>I think most capitals are in the centre of the country, perhaps not like
>the centre of a circle but more central in the way of government,
>services, transport, and the mind of people. Most countries that have a
>bit of sea usually have their capitals near there, because
>trade=money=power=capital. Only countries that have artificical capitals
>stray from that. Think of Brasilia in Brazil and Canberra in Australia.
You have reversed cause and effect here. Capitals are central in terms
of (rail)roads, government, services etc. because they are capitals.
When you first build inter-city links, where do you start? A provincial
city, or the one all the politicians and many businessmen have to visit?
I agree that the original request should have been "major ports" rather
than coast. At the time it grew up, London was effectively on the coast
- tidal river navigable to the largest ships of the time. In fact, the
main reason for London's existence there was that it was the lowest
feasible crossing point of the Thames, and also effectively a seaport.
I would agree that most capitals tend to be either major ports or
centre-ish within the country - the exceptions being synthetic
capitals.It depends, of course, how much deviation you allow from the
centre. I think of Paris as being only a little north of centre in
France.
OTOH, Brazilia is much more central, geographically, than its
predecessor Rio de Janeiro, But the Brazilians regard it as the back of
beyond because Brazil's population is overwhelmingly along a (deep)
coastal strip.
Moscow is central in European Russia; Asian Russia is a colonial empire
and should not be counted in calculating the centre of Russia any more
than Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands in calculating the centre of
Britain.
--
@lec ©awley
Graycat
<al...@cawley.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <10629349...@zandbak.klijmij.net>, Sanity
><sanityDE...@affordable-hedgehogs.co.uk> writes
>>I think most capitals are in the centre of the country, perhaps not like
>>the centre of a circle but more central in the way of government,
>>services, transport, and the mind of people.
>You have reversed cause and effect here. Capitals are central in terms
>of (rail)roads, government, services etc. because they are capitals.
>I agree that the original request should have been "major ports" rather
>than coast. At the time it grew up, London was effectively on the coast
>- tidal river navigable to the largest ships of the time. In fact, the
>main reason for London's existence there was that it was the lowest
>feasible crossing point of the Thames, and also effectively a seaport.
This is important, when you look at whether a capital city is central
or not you need to look at how the country looked when that city
became the capital. And also you need to define "central", do you mean
geographically, economically, tradewise, population wise?
Stockholm, while being a coastal city was also once upon a time very
centrally placed in Sweden (geographically). That was when Sweden
didn't have Skåne, Halland, Blekinge which belonged to Denmark (the
southernmost bits), no one lived in the far north (no one worth
counting as Swedish anyway) and Finland did belong to Sweden.
Modern day France, Germany, Austria, Italy and many others were once
shaped very differently than they are now. And then there is the case
of conquest - you start out with a city which grows stronger until it
can start ruling bits of land around it, other cities and then finally
an empire/country. That city will be the capital because it's the
dominant one, but it may in fact only be central to the original
region it belonged to.
--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/index.html
From adress valid, but rarely checked. Use Reply-To to contact me
Stevie D
David Chapman wrote:
> Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
London is a lot closer to the centre of the country if you measure by
population rather than by land area.
> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which are
> neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
Paris. Bern. Moskva. Lots of others.
--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________
Stevie D
Lister wrote:
> But london is NOT central, not when you're talking about Scotland too.
I think that was kind of David's point. What with him being Scottish
and terminally sarcastic too :-)
> After all, Central to us is Edinburgh. Why not hold it somewhere
> roughly equidistant? Like Yorkshire
Because most of Yorkshire (ie, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, Hull etc)
is an absolute dump, and the nice parts are completely devoid of
anyone living there.
David Chapman
> [Subject line spelling corrected]
>
> Lister wrote:
>
>> But london is NOT central, not when you're talking about Scotland
>> too.
>
> I think that was kind of David's point. What with him being Scottish
I'm not Scottish.
>> After all, Central to us is Edinburgh. Why not hold it somewhere
>> roughly equidistant? Like Yorkshire
>
> Because most of Yorkshire (ie, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, Hull etc)
> is an absolute dump, and the nice parts are completely devoid of
> anyone living there.
So, why not cast around for a venue in Manchester? It worked back in the
day.
David Chapman
>
> David Chapman wrote:
>
>> Which explains why so many major events take place in London.
>
> London is a lot closer to the centre of the country if you measure by
> population rather than by land area.
It's bang in the middle if you measure by self-importance, too.
X Kyle M Thompson
>> I think it all boils down to, "it's cheaper", full stop. I
>> mean, big cities tend to be well-connected to the
>> transportation network; it's much easier (and probably cheaper)
>> for me to fly to Edinburgh than to hop to East Midland then
>> take a bus, one or two trains and a taxi to Hinckley. I suspect
>> it's easier for many other people too[1].
Ł35 for a return for me, although I'm now going to have to leave my tickets
unused: I've not got enough holiday to come to Edinbugh! I really should
have checked before I booked.
Anyone else called Kyle Thompson who wants to go to Edinburgh next month? a
retun flight going spare.
I did ask my mother if she had any ID in the name of K(aren) Thompson left,
but she's got remarried.
heigh ho.
--
.sig is in the post
X Kyle M Thompson
> Because most of Yorkshire (ie, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, Hull etc)
> is an absolute dump, and the nice parts are completely devoid of
> anyone living there.
Hey, I'm going to Yorkshire (Ripon) for me hols next month, don't knock it
until you've tried it!
Of course when I went to visit the friend Katie in Leeds, her house mate's
scooter was stolen the night I arrived, and used the next day in a
scooter-by shooting in Bradford.
So maybe there's something in it.
kt.
David Chapman
> Stevie D wrote:
>> Because most of Yorkshire (ie, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, Hull etc)
>> is an absolute dump, and the nice parts are completely devoid of
>> anyone living there.
>
> Hey, I'm going to Yorkshire (Ripon) for me hols next month, don't
> knock it until you've tried it!
I've tried it. I'm knocking it.
Ripon is famous for having a supermarket which is the easiest in the world
to shoplift from; I can attest to this, as I know personally many people who
have. To curb the crime, they installed a life-size cardboard cutout of a
policeman.
It was stolen.
Stevie D
> Hey, I'm going to Yorkshire (Ripon) for me hols next month, don't knock it
> until you've tried it!
I *live* in Yorkshire, and have done for several years. Ripon is one
of the areas that I would count as pretty deserted. It's a small town,
with not very much nearby, and not easy to get to. That means it's
reasonably nice.
Stevie D
> I'm not Scottish.
Apologies. Do you live in Scotland, or am I getting you completely
confused with someone else?
> So, why not cast around for a venue in Manchester? It worked back in
> the day.
Any day in particular?
Good question. I don't know why not Manchester.
David Chapman
>
>> I'm not Scottish.
>
> Apologies. Do you live in Scotland, or am I getting you completely
> confused with someone else?
I live in Scotland. I'm not Scottish.
>> So, why not cast around for a venue in Manchester? It worked back in
>> the day.
>
> Any day in particular?
June 28th 1996, since you ask.
X Kyle M Thompson
> I live in Scotland. I'm not Scottish.
That's funny, I live in England, but I'm not English.
Wanna swop?
Of course then I'd be in Scotland, but I'm not Scottish, so we're back where
we started.
MEG
news:bjabh8$h3slb$1...@ID-188625.news.uni-berlin.de...
> These are not official reasons, but they are probably still
> reasons:
>
> 1 The regular DWCon is usually scheduled right in the middle of
> August anyway.
> 2 The regular DWCon is usually somewhere in the middle of
> England, the theory being that it's much easier and cheaper for
> everyone to get to Rugby (for example) than it is to get to
> Edinburgh.
> 3 The population of Edinburgh *doubles* during the month of
> August, because you have six, count them, *six* festivals on
> there all at once: The International Festival, The Book Festival,
> The Fringe Festival, The Film Festival, The Tattoo, and The Music
> Festival. Finding anywhere with enough room to host a DWCon in
> the middle of all that is going to be nigh-on impossible, and the
> prices would be astronomical. I just happen to have a carrier bag
> detailing performance venues with me, and of a listed total of 70
> venues, only 11 are of a suitably large capacity, and of those,
> *none* are hotels, 3 are misc. function rooms for hire, 2 are
> converted churches, 1 is a tent in a field, 1 is a college
> quadrangle, 2 are theatres, 1 is the grounds of a stately home,
> and 1 is a nightclub. Rough hire rates for these venues would be
> £500 per 2 hours.
>
> Somehow, I don't think it'll ever happen.
Hotel room cost was one of the biggest factors which aided the decision to
locate the 2002 convention in Hinckley. Then there was ease of getting to
the place (just off a central bit of motorway network - M1 north & south,
M6/M5 east and west) , the ability for the hotel to cope with a 800+ people
event, the friendliness of the staff and the facilities at the hotel (number
of function rooms etc.) The main problem with a London location is the cost
to the attendee. I think prices for rooms in Hinckley were about £40 per
night depending on number of people in the room. Try getting that sort of
deal in a hotel large enough in London.
- MEG
Brian Wakeling
Stevie D <stevieiny...@yahoo.co.uk> typed:
> X Kyle M Thompson wrote:
>
>> Hey, I'm going to Yorkshire (Ripon) for me hols next month,
>> don't knock it until you've tried it!
>
> I *live* in Yorkshire, and have done for several years. Ripon
> is one
> of the areas that I would count as pretty deserted. It's a
> small town,
> with not very much nearby, and not easy to get to. That means
> it's reasonably nice.
Is Ripon not technically a city, then? ISTR it having a
cathedral, which is one of the qualifying criteria for being a
city.
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
Brian Wakeling
X Kyle M Thompson <news.arghbug...@spamgourmet.com>
typed:
> Brian Wakeling wrote:
>>> I think it all boils down to, "it's cheaper", full stop. I
>>> mean, big cities tend to be well-connected to the
>>> transportation network; it's much easier (and probably
>>> cheaper)
>>> for me to fly to Edinburgh than to hop to East Midland then
>>> take a bus, one or two trains and a taxi to Hinckley. I
>>> suspect
>>> it's easier for many other people too[1].
Er - no I didn't. That was Sylvain.
> £35 for a return for me, although I'm now going to have to
> leave my tickets unused: I've not got enough holiday to come to
> Edinbugh! I really should have checked before I booked.
>
> Anyone else called Kyle Thompson who wants to go to Edinburgh
> next month? a retun flight going spare.
>
> I did ask my mother if she had any ID in the name of K(aren)
> Thompson left, but she's got remarried.
>
> heigh ho.
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
James Green
> Is Ripon not technically a city, then? ISTR it having a
> cathedral, which is one of the qualifying criteria for being a
> city.
http://www.lcd.gov.uk/constitution/city/citygj.htm#part6 suggests it is
indeed a city. There are no "qualifying criteria", as such, city status
is an honour[1] granted by the monarch of the time. I've yet to find a
source on whether or not the status can be revoked...
I suspect that, in reality, all settlements with cathedrals are cities
(in the UK, at least), but only because I can't think of a handy
counter-example. Not all cities have cathedrals, by quite some way.
[1] FCVO the word.
--
James Green | jkg at jimbo.org.uk
PGP key ID 81AE16FF, available from a key server near you
Daibhid Ceannaideach
>From: James Green j...@jimbo.org.uk
>Date: 08/09/03 20:44 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <slrnblpn0...@the.earth.li>
>
>In article <bjij4o$jm3jm$1...@ID-188625.news.uni-berlin.de>, Brian Wakeling
>wrote:
>
>> Is Ripon not technically a city, then? ISTR it having a
>> cathedral, which is one of the qualifying criteria for being a
>> city.
>
>http://www.lcd.gov.uk/constitution/city/citygj.htm#part6 suggests it is
>indeed a city. There are no "qualifying criteria", as such, city status
>is an honour[1] granted by the monarch of the time. I've yet to find a
>source on whether or not the status can be revoked...
>
>I suspect that, in reality, all settlements with cathedrals are cities
>(in the UK, at least), but only because I can't think of a handy
>counter-example.
Inverness, until 2000, when we given said honour[1]. Imagine our joy and
excitement.
>[1] FCVO the word.
--
Dave
Now Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc for FOUR years
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"We have no listing for the Cult of Fish in Edinburgh."
The Number 118-118, asked for the number of the Court of Session.
Andrew Gray
>
> http://www.lcd.gov.uk/constitution/city/citygj.htm#part6 suggests it is
> indeed a city. There are no "qualifying criteria", as such, city status
> is an honour[1] granted by the monarch of the time. I've yet to find a
> source on whether or not the status can be revoked...
>
> I suspect that, in reality, all settlements with cathedrals are cities
> (in the UK, at least), but only because I can't think of a handy
> counter-example. Not all cities have cathedrals, by quite some way.
There is one standard example of an uncitied cathedral in the UK, but I
forget where. Bishops tended to have the ability to pull strings to get
the city charter, y'see... :-)
--
-Andrew Gray
shim...@bigfoot.com
X Kyle M Thompson
> I suspect that, in reality, all settlements with cathedrals are
> cities (in the UK, at least), but only because I can't think of
> a handy counter-example.
Guildford, but we *are* a royal borough.
My grandmother owns a brick in the cathedral, y'know. From when
they were getting sponsorship to build the place, or summat.
kt, who actually lives in Woking now...
X Kyle M Thompson
> In news:bjhr7s$idbmg$1...@ID-142568.news.uni-berlin.de,
> X Kyle M Thompson <news.arghbug...@spamgourmet.com>
> typed:
>> Brian Wakeling wrote:
> Er - no I didn't. That was Sylvain.
Oh, yes, sorry.
kt.
Alec Cawley
Thompson <news.shri...@spamgourmet.com> writes
>Guildford, but we *are* a royal borough.
>
>My grandmother owns a brick in the cathedral, y'know. From when
>they were getting sponsorship to build the place, or summat.
I "own" several bricks in the cathedral. When I was of a "day at the
seaside" age, Guildford was on the way from home to where my aunt had a
seaside house. My mother, being a reasonably strong Christian, often
used to stop off at the under-construction cathedral and buy bricks all
round.
--
@lec Šawley
James Green
Daibhid Ceannaideach wrote:
> Inverness, until 2000, when we given said honour[1]. Imagine our joy and
> excitement.
I believe general feeling in Preston was much the same. :-)
>>[1] FCVO the word.
--
Stevie D
> Is Ripon not technically a city, then? ISTR it having a cathedral,
> which is one of the qualifying criteria for being a city.
Technically, it may well be a city. In fact, it probably is. But it's
tiny, and so doesn't really deserve the title. York is several times
bigger than Ripon, but is really only just big enough to be called a
city. Ripon is the same size as typical small market towns like Newark
or Bromsgrove or Braintree, or any number of other towns that very few
people will know anything at all about.
Sylvain Chambon
> In news:MPG.19c40f84c...@news.cis.dfn.de,
> Sylvain Chambon <sgpch...@yahoo.com> typed:
> > In article <3f59e5a4$0$246$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com>,
> > nos...@nospam.gro says...
> >
> >> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals
> >> which are neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the
> >> country?
> >
> > Vilnius.
>
> I thought Vilnius was a coastal city?
<http://www.nato.int/ccms/pilot/subg0/meeting/defense95/d24.html>
Ugly map, but it shows pretty well that Vilnius is not only landlocked
but also very close to the border with Belarus.
You may be thinking about either Tallinn or Riga.
Sylvain.
Michael Parry
leather.co.ukDELETETHIS" <grahamafforda...@hotmail.com> writes
>Re: [I] Edinburgh bool festival
Is that what a French cadet (caddy) plays during the closed season for
golf?
--
Michael Parry
600K Broadband, your Telephone line rental AND 12 months FREE off-peak
local and national calls GBP 34.49 per month http://www.ntlhome.com
Dom
>In article <bjij4o$jm3jm$1...@ID-188625.news.uni-berlin.de>, Brian Wakeling wrote:
>
>> Is Ripon not technically a city, then? ISTR it having a
>> cathedral, which is one of the qualifying criteria for being a
>> city.
>
>http://www.lcd.gov.uk/constitution/city/citygj.htm#part6 suggests it is
>indeed a city. There are no "qualifying criteria", as such, city status
>is an honour[1] granted by the monarch of the time. I've yet to find a
>source on whether or not the status can be revoked...
>
>I suspect that, in reality, all settlements with cathedrals are cities
>(in the UK, at least), but only because I can't think of a handy
>counter-example. Not all cities have cathedrals, by quite some way.
OTOH Chelmsford has a cathedral, but is not a city (despite the name
of it's football club).
--
Dom
afpSlave to CCA
Brian Wakeling
Sylvain Chambon <sgpch...@yahoo.com> typed:
Looking at the map, Tallinn, almost certainly.
They're all the same to me, these post USSR-independent Baltic
states. <g>
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
"Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the
hell happened."
PeterH
> Sylvain Chambon:
> > David Chapman:
> >>
> >> On the subject of geography, are there any national capitals which
> >> are neither coastal nor roughly in the centre of the country?
> >
> > Paris. Washington DC. Moscow. Bucarest. Sarajevo. Berlin. Vilnius.
>
Ah, but way back when in the bad old days, the "Judicial" capital of
SA was Bloemfontein, which is smack bang in the middle of the country
and the only civilised outpost for hundreds of miles... :)
Life was interesting back then. Apart from the judicial capital, there
was the "Administrative" capital (Pretoria) and the "Parliamentary"
capital (Cape Town), which nicely spread the load all around the
country (except of course for the province of Natal, which got left
out as punishment for being filled with nothing more than Zulus and
English-speakers[1]). It did mean that a lot of travelling back and
forth was required, so for reasons of efficency the three-captial
system was phased out in 1994.
But parliament still spends half the year down in Cape Town and the
other half in Pretoria.
Or possibly it's the other way round...
..PeterH
[1] Warning: Speculation!
--
From address valid but rarely checked. Use peterhjr at Yahoo!couk to
reply.
Axel Kielhorn
> That still leaves Washington, Moscow, Berlin, Paris, Berlin, Beijing,
> New Delhi, Ottawa and a host of others.
There is only one Berlin left in Germany:-)
Axel
--
I'm doing this for your own damn good
You'll make up for what I blew
What's the problem ... Why are you crying
"Perfect" by Alanis Morissette
Michael J. Schülke
> There is only one Berlin left in Germany:-)
Err, no... There's a village called Berlin near Bad Segeberg.
Regards,
Michael
Ben Hutchings
X Kyle M Thompson wrote:
>> I suspect that, in reality, all settlements with cathedrals are
>> cities (in the UK, at least), but only because I can't think of
>> a handy counter-example.
>
> Guildford, but we *are* a royal borough.
Also Ely, which has no such status.
Mark Datko
Of course there are the cities that have two cathedrals
(I can think of three at least)
hippo
--
http://www.3dhippo.org.uk
X Kyle M Thompson
> Of course there are the cities that have two cathedrals
Are they not cities²?
grahamafforda...@hotmail.com
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:45:38 +0100, Mark Datko
<mark....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Of course there are the cities that have two cathedrals
>(I can think of three at least)
I've can think of Bristol, London and Liverpool. Do I win a prize?
Cheers,
Graham.
icklegui
"gra...@affordable-leather.co.ukDELETETHIS"
... and Portsmouth....
julia
Andrew Gray
And Edinburgh...
Of course, are those two cathedrals of the same donomination?
--
-Andrew Gray
shim...@bigfoot.com
Mark Datko
Eric Jarvis
surely London only has St Paul's, or it also has Westminster and Southwark
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Brian Wakeling
gra...@affordable-leather.co.ukDELETETHIS
<grahamafforda...@hotmail.com> typed:
Salamanca (Northern Spain)
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
New website: http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
The problem with being in the rat-race is:
Even if you win, you're still a rat.
grahamafforda...@hotmail.com
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:47:48 +0100, "icklegui"
<julia_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Of course there are the cities that have two cathedrals
>> >(I can think of three at least)
>>
>> I've can think of Bristol, London and Liverpool. Do I win a prize?
>
>... and Portsmouth....
Eh??
There's one in Old Portsmouth. Where's the other?
Cheers,
Graham.
grahamafforda...@hotmail.com
On 12 Sep 2003 19:53:20 GMT, Andrew Gray <andre...@dunelm.org.uk>
wrote:
>>>Of course there are the cities that have two cathedrals
>>>(I can think of three at least)
>> I've can think of Bristol, London and Liverpool. Do I win a prize?
>And Edinburgh...
>
>Of course, are those two cathedrals of the same donomination?
Well not the Bristol ones. IIRC one is RC.
Cheers,
Graham.
Carol Hague
> >
> > ... and Portsmouth....
Would Norwich have been on your original list by any chance? :-)
It was the one I thought of first, as I've spent a fair bit of time
there (though not in the cathedrals :-)).
--
Carol Hague
"Unfortunately you can't see that from here anymore, as they've gone and
built Plymouth in the way."
- Adam Hart-Davies on "Local Heroes"
CTony
grahamafforda...@hotmail.com says...
(RC) - also known as "Paddy's Wigwam" for its funnel-like shape...
CounterTony
--
Never try to have a photo taken of yourself and a certain author while
carrying a toy monkey. Just don't.
icklegui
"gra...@affordable-leather.co.ukDELETETHIS"
<grahamafforda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f63874e...@news.cis.dfn.de...
'tis down the road that runs from the Hard to Commercial Road, near Victoria
Park. Think it's a different denomination to the Old Portsmouth one.
Definitely a cathedral though...
(sorry to anyone who's not really bothered about Portsmouth's multiple
cathedrals and the locations thereof...)
-julia
grahamafforda...@hotmail.com
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:37:12 +0100, "icklegui"
<julia_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> There's one in Old Portsmouth. Where's the other?
>
>'tis down the road that runs from the Hard to Commercial Road, near Victoria
>Park. Think it's a different denomination to the Old Portsmouth one.
>Definitely a cathedral though...
Ah! Found it! "The Cathedral of St John the Evangelist". It's RC,
rather than St Thomas', the Anglican/ C of E (whatever!) one in Old
Portsmouth that everyone thinks of as "Portsmouth Cathedaral".
I always thought it was just another big church!
http://www.portsmouth-dio.org.uk/Cathedral/
Cheers,
Graham.
Mole
<jo...@gelsalba.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>OK, are there any cities apart from Glasgow with three cathedrals?
>
Of course. London, for one.
Anglican: St. Paul's Cathedral, Southwark Cathedral
Catholic: Westminster Cathedral
Orthodox: The Orthodox Cathedral, Ennismore Gardens, South Ken.
--
MegaMole, the Official Enrico Basilica
\\\\\ laaa! mole at lspace dot org Liff, Filks, Stuff
\\\\\\\_o / "I'll sit in the U-bend and think about death."
__ \\\\\'c/__ Hitting the high notes with hedgehogs since 2001
Urs Steiner
> <nit-pick>
> To the best of my knowledge, there are somewhere in the region of
> 140 countries on the planet. You named just over 50 cities. So
As Switzerland last year became something like the 190th country to join
the UN I think you are a bit low ... e.g.
http://www.un.org/av/photo/unhq/switzerland.htm
In the mean time the second to last also joined, so the only one missing
is the Vatican (with a pretty central capital :) and it was a port, too
(some 2500 years ago or some such))
> two-thirds of the world's capital cities are the exception?
> Hmm...
> </nit-pick>
Well, you list up the other 2 thirds and whethere they are central
and/or coastal and we'll know
Urs
--
mail: urs [dot] steiner [at] switzerland [dot] org
phone: 078 / 790 32 16
Sigmund's wife wore Freudian slips.
Lister
<inv...@darkstone.ch> wrote:
>Urs
>
>--
>mail: urs [dot] steiner [at] switzerland [dot] org
>phone: 078 / 790 32 16
> Sigmund's wife wore Freudian slips.
Steiner as in Rudolf Steiner?
--
"Much as it pains me to admit it, my brother and I
spent a good twenty minutes weeing on each
other in the loos in the basement..."
Tim Miller, ugvm ----- www.ugvm.org.uk
Urs Steiner
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:33:21 +0200, "Urs Steiner"
>> mail: urs [dot] steiner [at] switzerland [dot] org
>> phone: 078 / 790 32 16
>> Sigmund's wife wore Freudian slips.
> Steiner as in Rudolf Steiner?
Well, obviously yes ...
although as much as I know we're not related, I didn't get taught his
ideas or anything ...
or was this just some comment on my randomly inserted signature?
Urs
--
mail: urs [dot] steiner [at] switzerland [dot] org
phone: 078 / 790 32 16
1/2: one half the value, i.e.: 1/2, X/2, PS/2, OS/2 ...
Lister
<inv...@darkstone.ch> wrote:
>
>or was this just some comment on my randomly inserted signature?
>
>Urs
Yes