-[I]- Or possibly [R]

[Lesley Weston]

I have recently made friends with a newly-retired Librarian. She's short
and round and has red hair, though her arms are not unusually long
(she's rather pretty) and she has a lot more to say than "Ook". She is
the type who might well save the day by doing something clever and
unexpected involving books or other information sources.

Lesley.

--
This address is real, but to reach me use leswes att shaw dott ca

[Larry Moore]

On 2013-05-03, Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I have recently made friends with a newly-retired Librarian. She's short
> and round and has red hair, though her arms are not unusually long
> (she's rather pretty) and she has a lot more to say than "Ook". She is
> the type who might well save the day by doing something clever and
> unexpected involving books or other information sources.
>
> Lesley.
>

What is her position on Pratchett?

--
"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the
U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant
man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
Editorial, Investor's Business Daily, 31 July 2009. Joke for the Day.

[RuneMaster]

On Fri, 03 May 2013 17:03:12 +0100, Larry Moore
<sshirley...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip all>

Your sig lines - That's seriously NOT funny.

I assume the quote is from some Merkian anti-Obamacare retard.

Do they not know that Prof Hawking lives, teaches, researches etc. in
Cambridge (oh wait, Cambridge *England* for left-pondians).

Like the intellectual level of debate over gun controls, does this
illustrate the inverse correlation between mental capacity and
right-wingness?

Sometimes I despair about letting such individuals having access to lethal
weapons. Just look at what a mess George W made of things! On the other
hand, KGB General Putin may have more smarts than the average Republican,
but he is just as dangerous. :-(

--
Veistu hve rísta skal? Veistu hve ráða skal?
Veistu hve fáa skal? Veistu hve freista skal?
Veistu hve biðja skal? Veistu hve blóta skal?
Veistu hve senda skal? Veistu hve sóa skal?

Hávamál, Stanza 144

[larry]

On Sat, 04 May 2013 11:18:10 +0100, RuneMaster wrote:

> On Fri, 03 May 2013 17:03:12 +0100, Larry Moore
> <sshirley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip all>
>
> Your sig lines - That's seriously NOT funny.
>
> I assume the quote is from some Merkian anti-Obamacare retard.
>

Some astroturf organization that I stumbled upon - 'pro market' and
followers of an interpretation of Friedrich August Hayek that probaly has
him rolling in his grave.

> Do they not know that Prof Hawking lives, teaches, researches etc. in
> Cambridge (oh wait, Cambridge *England* for left-pondians).
>

There was a retraction of the editorial shortly after - once they had who
Dr Hawking was, where he lived, and that the UK has a national medical
program explained to them (in short, simple words.)

> Like the intellectual level of debate over gun controls, does this
> illustrate the inverse correlation between mental capacity and
> right-wingness?

Certainly the hard of thinking find strong simple belief systems
attractive.

>
> Sometimes I despair about letting such individuals having access to
> lethal weapons. Just look at what a mess George W made of things! On
> the other hand, KGB General Putin may have more smarts than the average
> Republican, but he is just as dangerous. :-(

True. Less military capability but more subtle.

[GaryN]

RuneMaster <runem...@runes-online.com> wrote in
news:op.wwj1k...@compaq-sr1839uk.home:

> <snip>

> Like the intellectual level of debate over gun controls, does this
> illustrate the inverse correlation between mental capacity and
> right-wingness?

Ahhhh, yes. There was a lot of that sort of thing on the BBC News
comment board yesterday. Apparently everyone who voted for UKIP is an
ignorant, facist, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic, science-
denying cretin with a sub-moron comprehension of economics (I may have
missed out a few 'ists' and 'ics' there.)

Amazing really that so many of us actually managed to vote instead of
getting distracted stopping off for a bit of Paki/Gay-bashing on the way
to a pole dancing club. I'm surprised we could read the ballot papers!
[1]

> Sometimes I despair about letting such individuals having access to
> lethal weapons.

I despair of the idiots who let them.

gary

[1]OK actually I voted Green (best of 4 bad options) but I'd rather
claim to be a patriot than admit to being a treehugger..:-)
--
"I'm not twisted.
I'm a tortured soul in a flexible body"

The Contortionist in 'MicMacs'

[Robert Carnegie]

On Saturday, 4 May 2013 14:50:37 UTC+1, GaryN wrote:
> Ahhhh, yes. There was a lot of that sort of thing on the BBC News
> comment board yesterday. Apparently everyone who voted for UKIP is an
> ignorant, facist, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic, science-
> denying cretin with a sub-moron comprehension of economics (I may have
> missed out a few 'ists' and 'ics' there.)

Still, it was good of them to take the time to share their views online. :-)

Actually I think it is important to clearly recognise which
misanthropies and other failings each given organisation espouses
and which it doesn't, which are not necessarily the same as
what they admit to, nor those of any particular member or
spokesman.

But, for instance, given that their main goal is to leave the EU,
<http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/3038-ukip-immigration-policy> -
which claims to be a set of principles in the absence of a policy
anyway - is nonsense. Not nasty (except where it is), it's nonsense.

According to <http://www.ukip.org/page/ukip-manifesto> they have
seven manifestos for different audiences within Britain; it seems
to me that you'll learn more by reading the ones that you weren't
meant to see.

The Scottish one is another wonder-work of contradictions but seems
to promise that we can keep the English out. On the other hand,
the Scottish Parliament will be replaced by a committee of UK MPs
for Scottish constituencies, presumably sitting in London.

[Lesley Weston]

On 05-03-13 9:03 AM, Larry Moore wrote:
> On 2013-05-03, Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> I have recently made friends with a newly-retired Librarian. She's short
>> and round and has red hair, though her arms are not unusually long
>> (she's rather pretty) and she has a lot more to say than "Ook". She is
>> the type who might well save the day by doing something clever and
>> unexpected involving books or other information sources.
>>
>> Lesley.
>>
>
> What is her position on Pratchett?
>

We haven't got that far yet. She likes SF, but before we could get going
properly on a nice discussion of that, everybody else piled in wanting
to talk about the exercise class we had all just finished. If she's into
TP, I'll point her this way.

[GaryN]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
news:b943c1f3-d7d2-4b23...@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, 4 May 2013 14:50:37 UTC+1, GaryN wrote:
>> Ahhhh, yes. There was a lot of that sort of thing on the BBC News
>> comment board yesterday. Apparently everyone who voted for UKIP is
>> an ignorant, facist, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic,
>> science- denying cretin with a sub-moron comprehension of economics
>> (I may have missed out a few 'ists' and 'ics' there.)
>
> Still, it was good of them to take the time to share their views
> online. :-)
>
> Actually I think it is important to clearly recognise which
> misanthropies and other failings each given organisation espouses
> and which it doesn't, which are not necessarily the same as
> what they admit to, nor those of any particular member or
> spokesman.

Quite agree but it also behooves the viewer to recognise that any
organisation will count among its members some who are not quite with
it. I refer to the hopeless old duffer who thinks that exercise
prevents homosexuality and the cretin supposedly giving a Nazi salute
whilst pretending to eat a houseplant (although his irredeemable
stupidity was posting it).

I say supposedly because I just reached up for something on the top
shelf of my computer desk and my webcam saw something that looked a lot
like a nazi salute. Actually I, and I suspect others, make lots of arm
gestures every day which aren't nazi salutes but could be mistaken for
them by the rabidly PC, Ho Hum.

> But, for instance, given that their main goal is to leave the EU,
> <http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/3038-ukip-immigration-
policy
> - which claims to be a set of principles in the absence of a policy
> anyway - is nonsense. Not nasty (except where it is), it's nonsense.
>
> According to <http://www.ukip.org/page/ukip-manifesto> they have
> seven manifestos for different audiences within Britain; it seems
> to me that you'll learn more by reading the ones that you weren't
> meant to see.

I did have a look, fortunately I don't think they have a snowball in
hell chance of getting real power. At the same time I suspect that this
was somewhat more than just a standard mid-term protest vote. People
really are concerned about the EU and immigration, I hope Daveybloke has
the sense to take notice because next year could see more MEPs. In the
meantime maybe there is some hope for local councils getting things done
because the Kippers have to prove they were worth voting for.

> The Scottish one is another wonder-work of contradictions but seems
> to promise that we can keep the English out. On the other hand,
> the Scottish Parliament will be replaced by a committee of UK MPs
> for Scottish constituencies, presumably sitting in London.

I thought we already had that, called 'the government'. Oh no, sorry,
that's Scottish MPs running England isn't it - wrong way round.

I thought the Scots would be long gone by the time it becomes even
vaguely relevant; or do you think the divorce lawyers will still be
arguing over the alimony and custody of the Queen?

Actually that raises a question. Will the Scots still be wanting the
English monarch as titular head of state if Brenda pops her clogs and
leaves the family firm to 'Our Kid'?

gary

[Larry Moore]

It would be good to have another thoughtful lady here.

--
“Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and adventures are the shadow truths that will endure when
mere facts are dust and ashes and forgotten”
Neil Gaiman

[Jessica]

On Sat, 04 May 2013 08:39:54 -0700, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> The Scottish one is another wonder-work of contradictions but seems to
> promise that we can keep the English out. On the other hand, the
> Scottish Parliament will be replaced by a committee of UK MPs for
> Scottish constituencies, presumably sitting in London.

That's no stupider than the Quebec separatists who want(ed) an independant
Quebec while keeping Canadian passports, Canadian dollars and Canadian
pensions...

[Robert Carnegie]

On Saturday, 4 May 2013 18:13:14 UTC+1, GaryN wrote:
> I thought we already had that, called 'the government'. Oh no, sorry,
> that's Scottish MPs running England isn't it - wrong way round.

If David Cameron is too Scottish for you then you may want to
check your allergy medication.

[Free Lunch]

On Sat, 4 May 2013 14:14:21 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:

What does he need other than a Scottish name?

[larry]

Small footnote: Quebec has always had its own pension plan.

[Jessica]

On Sat, 04 May 2013 22:06:53 +0000, larry wrote:

> Small footnote: Quebec has always had its own pension plan.

But the Bloc-heads Quebecois are all raking in Federal pensions because
they were MPs, and they want to keep those while being independant.

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article,
<b943c1f3-d7d2-4b23...@googlegroups.com>,
rja.ca...@excite.com "Robert Carnegie" eukuipped:

> GaryN wrote:
>>Ahhhh, yes. There was a lot of that sort of thing on the BBC News
>>comment board yesterday. Apparently everyone who voted for UKIP is an
>>ignorant, facist, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic, science-
>>denying cretin with a sub-moron comprehension of economics (I may have
>>missed out a few 'ists' and 'ics' there.)
>
>Still, it was good of them to take the time to share their views online.
>:-)

- indeed; and not all of them are all of those things:
some of them are not very homophobic - so long as they
don't have to go public on the subject - and not all of
them are science-denying cretins; some just don't under-
stand the basis of scientific enquiry and method, and
tend to belittle what's beyond their comprehension; and
some of them are hardly misogynistic at all, so long as
the girls involved are all pretty, and smile at the men
and boys who ogle them and wolf whistle at them, and
yell at them to get their kit off, as they zoom past
them in their cars and on their motor-bikes...

- and then, lots of those who've voted for them, this
time around in england, are just ordinary, usually
tory-voting bods who've noticed their lives've got a
whole lot worse under diddy david cameron's govern-
ment, can't see any sign of things getting better any
time soon, and want some easy answers that fit in with
their inclinations and prejudices *right* *now*.

>Actually I think it is important to clearly recognise which misanthropies
>and other failings each given organisation espouses and which it doesn't,
>which are not necessarily the same as what they admit to, nor those of any
>particular member or spokesman.
>
>But, for instance, given that their main goal is to leave the EU,
><http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/3038-ukip-immigration-policy>
>- which claims to be a set of principles in the absence of a policy
>anyway - is nonsense. Not nasty (except where it is), it's nonsense.
>
>According to <http://www.ukip.org/page/ukip-manifesto> they have
>seven manifestos for different audiences within Britain;

- how.. ..unexpectedly flexible of them.

>it seems to me that you'll learn more by reading the ones that you
>weren't meant to see.

- it's a tactic i've come across employed by some of the
extreme right-wing english "parties" to try to disguise
or mislead as to their espousal of racial violence; mind
you, i'm not at all sure that the organisers *or* upper
hierarchy of ukip _are_ racist in the sense of being
specifically anti-black, anti-brown, and/or anti-any
other specific colour of skin; but they do seem to be
under the impression that there *is* such a thing as
the british or english race - which appears not to in-
clude the welsh, may or may not include some, all or
any of the irish, and to exclude all scots not members
of the house of lords (as was) by inheritance. probably.

- and they appear to be anti-immigration by anyone that
might intend to work in this country, on the grounds
that they'd be stealing jobs from real british or english
people (despite the lack of a firm definition thereof) -
*and* by anyone definitely intending to _not_ work here;
though any and all of these objections might magically
disappear if the people concerned are rich and inclined
to provide custom and employment for solicitors and bar-
risters, investment bankers and estate agencies, apply
to join the right clubs and not be blackballed, and get
invited to shoots and the hunt ball...

>The Scottish one is another wonder-work of contradictions
>but seems to promise that we can keep the English out.

- and i'm sure you're all jolly glad you'll have ukip's
permission to do this; doubtless you'll be celebrating
by holding bank holiday picnics with lashings of irn-bru.

>On the other hand, the Scottish Parliament will be replaced
>by a committee of UK MPs for Scottish constituencies,

- so that's alright, then.

>presumably sitting in London.

- oh, surely not during the huntin' season, old chap; not
when there's birds'n'furry beasts about to be shot!

- nigel farridge (how can he present himself as a true-
blue - well, true-purple - brit, pronouncing his surname
"feh-rahj" ?) has quite understandably said he couldn't
enter a coalition with the tories led by cameron: it'd be
a tad tricky forming a coalition without an m.p. in the
house of commons at westminster; but if ukip wins a batcyh
of english constituencies from the tories at the next gen-
eral election, might he be prepared to form a coalition
with boris?

- love, a ppint. as is fascinated by the ukip phenomenon
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"No creature without tentacles had ever developed true intelligence."
- "Hunting Problem" Robert Sheckley

[Nigel Stapley]

On 05/05/2013 07:34, ppint. at pplay wrote:

> - and they appear to be anti-immigration by anyone that
> might intend to work in this country, on the grounds
> that they'd be stealing jobs from real british or english
> people (despite the lack of a firm definition thereof)

Appearances are deceptive, and *politician*'s appearances doubly so:

http://www.thejudge.me.uk/Rants/Rants_20060508.htm
--
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.thejudge.me.uk

<reply-to will bounce>

[larry]

Sounds fair - they qualified by being re-elected, at least once, to
Parliament. That was the Deal. Quebecois who are eligible for civil
service superannuation after working for the federal civil service until
they have their 85 factor, similarly. Independence would be a flag day
but the 'status pro quo ante' stands.

[GaryN]

Nigel Stapley <un...@judgemental.plus.com> wrote in
news:9rqdnYatjMgsqhvM...@brightview.co.uk:

> On 05/05/2013 07:34, ppint. at pplay wrote:
>
>> - and they appear to be anti-immigration by anyone that
>> might intend to work in this country, on the grounds
>> that they'd be stealing jobs from real british or english
>> people (despite the lack of a firm definition thereof)
>
>
> Appearances are deceptive, and *politician*'s appearances doubly so:
>
> http://www.thejudge.me.uk/Rants/Rants_20060508.htm

I had no idea you wanted to promote the Kippers Nigel? Surely pointing
out that their leader acts just like a 'proper' politician by saying one
thing whilst doing something diametrically opposed will convince people
to take them seriously.

Just out of curiosity did all abolitionists refuse to be served by black
slaves whilst campaigning to the slave holders? I'm sure many did but
did some of them (all regarded as humanitarian heroes[1]) slip up?

gary

[1]A typo nearly had that as "humanitarian herpes", maybe I should have
left it so you could call me a racist..:-)

[Lesley Weston]

Luckily, there's not much danger of it happening. Every time Quebec
gathers itself together and holds a referendum, the answer always comes
back "Non". Most Quebecois are like most people everywhere: they just
want to get on with their lives and raise their families with as little
disruption as possible.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Sunday, 5 May 2013 07:34:55 UTC+1, "ppint. at pplay" wrote:
> - and they appear to be anti-immigration by anyone that
> might intend to work in this country, on the grounds
> that they'd be stealing jobs from real british or english
> people (despite the lack of a firm definition thereof) -
> *and* by anyone definitely intending to _not_ work here;
> though any and all of these objections might magically
> disappear if the people concerned are rich and inclined
> to provide custom and employment for solicitors and bar-
> risters, investment bankers and estate agencies, apply
> to join the right clubs and not be blackballed, and get
> invited to shoots and the hunt ball...

To be fair: firstly that's every other party's immigration
policy as well, and most voters', except for a party that
/intends/ to have immigrants fill domestic (national)
jobs cheaply. In the EU there's a difference of free
exchange of goods, services, /and labour/ in countries
of the union; that works both ways, but obviously better
when there isn't a language barrier.

And secondly, foreigners don't get into clubs.

I seem to have misread UKIP's not-a-policy on letting
EU citizens stay on after Britain leaves the EU;
that's to be only if they win work permits. I still
don't get it, but maybe it legally has to be like that.
And there's still a lot of confusion, but the theme
of "immigration: generally against it“" isn't
unpopular. Even, I'm sorry to say, the part about
terminating human rights and refugee treaty
obligations. I think someone somewhere else said that
that entails leaving the U.N., but, why not.
Maybe Interpol too.

> - nigel farridge (how can he present himself as a true-
> blue - well, true-purple - brit, pronouncing his surname
> "feh-rahj" ?) has quite understandably said he couldn't
> enter a coalition with the tories led by cameron:

Uh... because he's Scottish?

Or because it was such fun watching the Liberals make
Gordon Brown stand down as a condition of a deal that
they then didn't do?

[larry]

As the Bishop of Dublin said when asked if he was 'saved':
"It was such a near thing that I don't want to talk about it."

[daniel goldsmith]

On 2013-05-05, "ppint. at pplay" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> - nigel farridge (how can he present himself as a true-
> blue - well, true-purple - brit, pronouncing his surname
> "feh-rahj" ?) has quite understandably said he couldn't
> enter a coalition with the tories led by cameron: it'd be
> a tad tricky forming a coalition without an m.p. in the
> house of commons at westminster; but if ukip wins a batcyh
> of english constituencies from the tories at the next gen-
> eral election, might he be prepared to form a coalition
> with boris?

The mind, it doth boggle mightily. Is the cartoon blond ape actually
thought of in the same sentence as "Party Leader" by anyone who has
more than half a brain cell to pass around the cigar table?

I too am rather bewildered by the ukip phenomenon, less so by the
party qua party, but more by the reaction to them by the Britisher
media -- from memory, before the recent local elections, the Green
Party had 180 councillors, had minority control of (iirc) Brighton
Council and had (at least) one M.P. Yet there was no "Fourth Party"
headlines for their success, which was rather more impressive than
Nigel's odious troupe.

It seems that the media, particuarly the BBC, had an interest in
ensuring that the public at large gave no attention to a party on
the left of "mainstream" uk politics, but has no hesitation at all
in creating acres of coverage for a similar party of the other
stripe.

Makes one think.

--
Protected by their camouflage, the New International Militant Hedgehogs
__o __o __o __o (NIMH) Approach their Target
'/ '/ '/ '/ _____________________________________________________
*Daniel Goldsmith. Reply-to/Homepage in Headers*

[GaryN]

daniel goldsmith <dg...@ascraeus.bongley.net.invalid> wrote in
news:slrnkod4b5...@ascraeus.bongley.net:

> It seems that the media, particuarly the BBC, had an interest in
> ensuring that the public at large gave no attention to a party on
> the left of "mainstream" uk politics, but has no hesitation at all
> in creating acres of coverage for a similar party of the other
> stripe.
>
> Makes one think.

This one thinks that after the spectacular Newsnight cock-ups with
Saville and then Lord Wossname the BBC hasn't got a friggin clue what to
report about anything. To the extent that the old saying about no news
has now been amended to read "No news is BBC news"

But what can you expect from an organisation whose head was apparently
unaware of the state of the building it was abandoning? "the cost of
keeping this place going and getting it up to speed with high definition
would not be a good use of licence fee payers' money" quoth Michael
Grade (for it was he). Errr, six out of eight main studios were
converted and re-equipped for HD 2006-2011. Oooops.

gary

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article, <slrnkod4b5...@ascraeus.bongley.net>,
dg...@ascraeus.bongley.net. "daniel goldsmith" increduled:

> ppint. at pplay" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>> but if ukip wins a batch of english constituencies from the
>> tories at the next general election, might [nigel farage] be

>> prepared to form a coalition with boris?
>
>The mind, it doth boggle mightily. Is the cartoon blond ape actually
>thought of in the same sentence as "Party Leader" by anyone who has
>more than half a brain cell to pass around the cigar table?

- the tories were expected to do very poorly in the forth-
coming eu elections: if their candidates are _slaughtered_
by ukip's, which isn't now beyond belief, tory mps may be
sufficiently scared to dump cameron for a new leader, and
one with populist, as well as popular appeal.
who would now bet against the english tory parties and
voters choosing someone who shares many of their prejudices
and doesn't give the impression he thinks he's any better -
or any smarter - than they are?

- love, a ppint. as remembers the popularity of both
ronald reagan and shrubya with the great merkin unwashed

[Paul Jamison]

""ppint. at pplay"" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:20130506.024...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk...

[snip]

>
> - love, a ppint. as remembers the popularity of both
> ronald reagan and shrubya with the great merkin unwashed
>

I still get the cold sweats about that.

Paul

[GaryN]

v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk ("ppint. at pplay") wrote in
news:20130506.024...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk:

> - hi; in article, <slrnkod4b5...@ascraeus.bongley.net>,
> dg...@ascraeus.bongley.net. "daniel goldsmith" increduled:
>> ppint. at pplay" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> but if ukip wins a batch of english constituencies from the
>>> tories at the next general election, might [nigel farage] be
>>> prepared to form a coalition with boris?
>>
>>The mind, it doth boggle mightily. Is the cartoon blond ape actually
>>thought of in the same sentence as "Party Leader" by anyone who has
>>more than half a brain cell to pass around the cigar table?
>
> - the tories were expected to do very poorly in the forth-
> coming eu elections: if their candidates are _slaughtered_
> by ukip's, which isn't now beyond belief, tory mps may be
> sufficiently scared to dump cameron for a new leader, and
> one with populist, as well as popular appeal.

The problem being that the capering blonde ape is the only likely option
given the others. Hague again anyone?[1] How about Theresa May? Oh,no,
can't have her, she is a xenophobic, paedophobe ageist who slipped anit-
immigration policy in through the back door Georgie-Boy Osborne?

No, I think the Tories have only one real course of action to prevent
Boris taking over. They must immediately recruit Jeremy Clarkson and
make him Prime Minister!

It brings a huge smile to my face contemplating the prospect of the PC
and lefty facists having to say nice things about Clarkson in order to
keep out the hated UKIP nazis.

> who would now bet against the english tory parties and
> voters choosing someone who shares many of their prejudices
> and doesn't give the impression he thinks he's any better -
> or any smarter - than they are?

Told you - Clarkson for PM..:-)

gary

[1]Mandelson is still editing Wikipedia I see. Sorry, *The* Lord
Mandelson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hague

[Lesley Weston]

But the most recent one was still "Non", even with all the cheating on
the part of the "Oui" side. I think we can rely on what Parizeau called
the "ethnic vote" and everybody else calls the "rational vote".

[larry]

"C'est vrai, c'est vrai qu'on a été battus, au fond, par quoi ? Par
l'argent puis des votes ethniques, essentiellement. "

He was tired and emotional at the time and apologized (too late,) when he
sobered the next morning.

But his analysis was essentially correct - they weren't able to reassure
les autres that they would be cherished under the sovereignty project.

[Lesley Weston]

Not at all, that wasn't his problem. His problem was that a majority of
Quebecois don't want to separate from Canada. Such a large majority that
even all his chicanery about counting the votes and all the rest of it
couldn't produce enough perceived votes for the "Oui" side. There is a
threat that the poor things are going to be forced by successive
Governments to do it over and over again until they get it right, but
Beelzebub had better get some hockey gear ready for when they do get it
right.