[I]An*rchy! in A-M.
G.Higgins
I have neglected in the past few weeks. Those concerned will I hope
understand that work has got very *interesting* recently, quite
absorbing, but *mwah!* *mwah!* I know you know, and thank you for being
so patient.
And to the Clue Fairies: I hope I'm fully compliant now. One *grrreat*
fan of the Clue Fairies here.
So this is the noodle: I've been trying to find suitable soundtrack to
get the mood for bits of Guards!Guards!. Having the right music isn't
essential, but it really helps to sustain a mood.
Started out with Michael Nyman, and Ellington's 'jungle-sound' around
the East St. Louis Toodle-oo period. The former for 'period'-feel, the
latter for a particular mean-streets air.
But a chance encounter with a double cd of British electric folk music
entitled, hem-hem: 'THE BEST PuNk aNTheMs ...EVER!' has provided the
little galvanic spark.
I always liked The Undertones' 'Teenage Kicks', but the moment those
first steamshovel chords weigh in, it was like - blam! Vimes emerges
from the Watch House. Clear as video - focus on his face, glimpse the
street-scene over his shoulder as he strides through the crowd. *That's*
how Vimes would walk the walk.
Even the lyrics have a certain mordant irony.
And The Ruts' 'Babylon's Burning' was very good for getting the mood for
the streets of Ankh in the grip of Dragon Fever. If anyone fancies
PuNkfIlK, the Band With Rocks In version goes:-
The Shades are alight
The Ankh's ablaze
Something slithers in the air
Through the night these days
It's... just mythology!
Morpork's burnin', Morpork's BURnin'
Morpork's burnin' with mythology
Elucidated Brothers, can't you see?
Morpork's burnin' with mythology...
...So the first question is, do you have recommended tracks to evoke
bits of Discworld? I expect no less than Tarrantinoid precision in these
DW jukebox selections....
And the other music-related query is: How do you imagine the sound of
the Band With Rocks In?
At first I thought it would be a hyper-hey-nonny-nonny, but the more
Ramones I imagined it, the funnier it seemed. There were lots of
backstage 'Don't Look Back' overlaps - not literally, just that
rockumentary look.
I think there was a band called Morphine who had a BWRI-like drums/
bass/saxophone line-up, and they stuck in my mind because it was
ultra-fairground music. Take a turn in the dodgems with these guys on
the PA and you'd know about it.
What's that carrier-wave, that primitive hook that characterises The
Music? Iggy Pop's rockin' drawl,or rauc'n'droll, *has* it (I think he's
the Noel Coward of the genre); Howlin' Wolf's 'Wang-Dang-Doodle' *has*
it; 'The Girl Can't Help It'; 'Promised Land' (Johnny Allen for
preference)... and does anyone remember Hank C. Burnette's 'Spinning
Rock Boogie'? If anyone can tape me that I'd be *much* obliged.
You're right. I should get out more. I have it pencilled in for the
Spring.
Needless to say, James sends greetings.
Ta-ra for now, hapfpcats.
G.
--
'...the news today will be the movies for tomorrow...'
-Life is too short to emoticon-
Remove xx to reply by mail
David Chapman
news:1999082116...@pokkettz.demon.co.uk...
> ...So the first question is, do you have recommended tracks to evoke
> bits of Discworld? I expect no less than Tarrantinoid precision in these
> DW jukebox selections....
I feel a competition coming on...
Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of the
Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference, it makes a
better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just call 'em as you see
'em.
Here's my list...
TCOM + TLF: A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procul Harum
ER: The Kids Aren't Alright - The Offspring
Mort: (Don't Fear) The Reaper - Blue Oyster Cult
Sourcery: A Kind Of Magic - Queen
WS: A Question of Time - Depeche Mode
Pyramids: Powerslave - Iron Maiden
G!G!: Light My Fire - The Doors
Eric: Bat Out Of Hell - Meat Loaf
MP: Mad World - (forget who it's by)
RM: Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles
WA: Fairytale of New York - The Pogues & Kirsty McColl
SG: Theme from Shaft - Isaac Hayes (who's the god of our religion, who's
such a hit with the Quisition? OM! Damn right...)
L&L: Sex Dwarf - Soft Cell
MAA: Anything by Love and Rockets
SM: Born To Be Wild - Steppenwolf
IT: Revolution - The Beatles
Maskerade: A Night At The Opera - Queen (or possibly Bohemian Rhapsody)
FoC: Made of Stone - The Stone Roses
Hogfather: Santa Claus Is Coming To Town - (artist thankfully forgotten)
Jingo: War! - (original version, forgotten the artist)
TLC: Down Under - Men At Work
CJ: Bela Lugosi Is Dead - Bauhaus
<pants for breath>
OK, who's got any better ideas?
--
Considering your upbringing,
I'm surprised you don't just drool
all day and play the banjo...
Jan Mazurek
> ...So the first question is, do you have recommended tracks to evoke
> bits of Discworld? I expect no less than Tarrantinoid precision in these
> DW jukebox selections....
I recommend Enya's:
- "Book of Days" for "Mort" in general.
There are slower bits for moments like riding Blinky and more energetic and
powerful, good for Mort's duel with Death.
Even lyrics fit nicely.
-"Anywhere Is" would perfectly describe Rincewind's life in general,
-"Orinoco Flow" - ship chase in "Jingo",
-"Lothlorien" - in the ending of HF, when Susan is talking to the first
bogeyman
Matching Enya's songs with DW novels has been my obsession for about two
years
now. I have much more Enya matchings. I'm sure, however, that some of
Vangelis' or Oldfield's track would suit somewhere.
TBN-And-The-Greatest-Enyophile-In-This-Part-Of-Galaxy
Mazurek
--
******************
Seré una ola
Seré una luna
He sido todo, soy yo
Leo Breebaart
> Matching Enya's songs with DW novels has been my obsession for about two
> years now. I have much more Enya matchings. I'm sure, however, that some
> of Vangelis' or Oldfield's track would suit somewhere.
Oh sure. "On Horseback" from _Ommadawn_ -- can you say: "Death's theme
song"?
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
Who has severe conceptual difficulties with the idea of using an Enya song,
*any* Enya song, to visualise a chase scene, *any* chase scene, not
involving two children's book characters called Sluggy the Slug and Sammy
the Sloth.
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
G.Higgins
> I'm sure, however, that some of
> Vangelis' or Oldfield's track would suit somewhere.
Yep, in the movie it would be nice to fly in Jurassic Park fashion from
the rim to the Ramtops and up. up to that first track... what is it, on
'China'?
This is what I meant - the pastoral bits are everywhere. Elgar's
Introduction & AlIegro is good Ramtops reference. Cruise the Sto plains
to Pat Metheny's 'As Falls Wichita So Falls Wichita Falls.'
What I want is mean streets mood music. Tom Waits and his
Serpentstrumphorns would fit right in. 'Thirty-ought-eight' on Blue
Valentine is a Dwarf field-holler.
Try calling up a picture of any band or artist of choice in Photoshop
and applying the Discworld Filter in the Image menu. Thinking person's
Goo.
Rosemary Warner
<sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>G.Higgins <g...@pokkettz.xxcom> wrote in message
>news:1999082116...@pokkettz.demon.co.uk...
>
>> ...So the first question is, do you have recommended tracks to evoke
>> bits of Discworld? I expect no less than Tarrantinoid precision in these
>> DW jukebox selections....
>
>I feel a competition coming on...
>
>Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of the
>Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference, it makes a
>better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just call 'em as you see
>'em.
<searches through huge pile of CDs to produce......>
The Colour Of Magic- The Tourist (Radiohead)
The Light Fantastic- Strange News From Another Star (Blur)
Up In The Sky (Oasis)
Equal Rites- Born A Girl (Manic Street Preachers)
Female Of The Species (Space)
Just A Girl (No Doubt)
Mort- Bones (Radiohead)
Sourcery- Could It Be Magic (Take That)
Instant Death (Beastie Boys)
Wyrd Sisters- Losing A Whole Year (Third Eye Blind). Played 15 times.
Sentimental Fool (Lloyd Cole)
Pyramids- Climbing Up The Walls (Radiohead)
Guards! Guards!- Relight My Fire-(Take That) let me make it clear I
DO NOT own a copy of this song!)
Eric- Damned (Bon Jovi)
Moving Pictures- Exit Music For A Film (Radiohead)
No Business Like Show Business
Reaper Man- Dyin' Ain't Much Of A Livin' (Bon Jovi)
Witches Abroad- Pumpkin (Tricky)
The Riverboat Song (Ocean Colour Scene)
Small Gods- Hey God (Bon Jovi)
There Goes God (Crowded Hosue)
Lords And Ladies- Remember Me? (The Blueboy)
Men At Arms- Justice In The Barrel (Bon Jovi)
Sleep Together (Garbage) (sorry!)
The Way Of The Explosive (Finley Quaye)
Soul Music- Anyone Can Play Guitar (Radiohead)
Blame It On The Love Of Rock & Roll (Bon Jovi)
Condemned to Rock 'n' Roll (Manic Street Preachers)
A Little Biddy Help From Elvis (Space)
Interesting Times- Butterfly (Jamiroquai)
The Certainty Of Chance (Divine Comedy)
Maskerade- Don't Put Your Daughter On The Stage, Mrs Worthington (Noel
Coward)
Feet Of Clay- King For A Day (Jamiroquai)
Living Doll (Cliff Richard?)
Hogfather- If You Tolerate This Then Your Children Will Be Next
(Manics)
Jingo- Sail Away (Mental block- can't remember the artist)
Policemen And Pirates (Ocean Colour Scene)
The Last Continent- Marooned (Lightning Seeds)
Carpe Jugulum- This Power (Lightning Seeds)
I also found songs for places/people/groups of characters:
Gaspode: [woof woof] Biscuit (Portishead)
Angua: Bitch (Meredith Brooks)
The Dwarfs (or the Alchemists)- Fools Gold (Stone Roses)
The Ankh- Humming (Portishead)
Hole In The River (Crowded Hosue)
Ankh-Morpork- On A Plain (Nirvana)
Mended Drum Customers- Spectators Of Suicide (Manics)
Seamstresses' Guild - Eine Kleine Nachtmusik (A Little Night
Music)- W.A. Mozart
Thieves Guild- You've Got To Pick A Pocket Or Two (Lionel Bart, from
"Oliver")
Rincewind- Lucky Man (The Verve)
Firefighters' Guild- A Tendency To Sart Fires (Bush)
Detritus and Ruby- I'm Stone In Love With You (?)
Granny Weatherwax- My Way (Frank Sinatra)
Lettice Knibbs, Edward D'Eath, Bjorn Hammerhock etc- Bullet Proof...I
Wish I Was (Radiohead)
Alchemists' Guild- The Way Of The Explosive (Finley Quaye)
Rosemary
Member of WWACCDE99
Playing the viola with pride.
Suzi
(sent...@globalnet.co.uk) wibbled...
> Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of the
> Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference, it makes a
> better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just call 'em as you see
> 'em.
Right - I agree with a lot of your choices - except the following ones
where I've supplied my own:
Pyramids: "Walk like an Egyptian" - The Bangles
WA: For me it would be the music from the BBC radio adaptation of "The
Lord of the Rings" (for the obvious link)
> Jingo: War! - (original version, forgotten the artist)
Edwin Star... but actually I'd personally opt for the Frankie Goes to
Holywood version anyway <g>
TLC: This is where I'd put "Bohemian Rhapsody", if only for the "I see a
little sillohett-a of a man.."
Suzi
--
Need help with afp?... mail the clue fairies afp-...@lspace.org
New to afp? point your browser at http://www.lspace.org/
New to Usenet posting? browse http://psg.com/emily.html
The Irrelevant page: http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gidnsuzi/index.html
Kevin Hackett
David Chapman wrote in message <7pog85$3dk$2...@gxsn.com>...
>G.Higgins <g...@pokkettz.xxcom> wrote in message
>news:1999082116...@pokkettz.demon.co.uk...
>
>> ...So the first question is, do you have recommended tracks to
>>evoke bits of Discworld? I expect no less than Tarrantinoid
>>precision in these DW jukebox selections....
>
>I feel a competition coming on...
First prize is a 'Yes, you're right!'. Runners-up get vaguely agreeing
mumbles
>Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of the
>Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference, it makes a
>better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just call 'em as you see
>'em.
I'm useless at remembering song titles and stuff, so most of these will come
from just a few sources. In fact, a lot of them come from one album...
>TCOM + TLF: A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procul Harum
Oooh! BAD pun! :-)
TCOM: Wishing I was naive - Headswim
TLF: Star People - George Michael
>ER: The Kids Aren't Alright - The Offspring
This Woman's work - Kate Bush
>Mort: (Don't Fear) The Reaper - Blue Oyster Cult
Wrapped around your finger - The Police
>Sourcery: A Kind Of Magic - Queen
Making plans for Nigel - XTC
>WS: A Question of Time - Depeche Mode
The Time Warp - Rocky Horror Picture Show
>Pyramids: Powerslave - Iron Maiden
Golden Brown - The Stranglers
>G!G!: Light My Fire - The Doors
Great Fire or King for a Day - both XTC again (hey, I happen to have the CD
with me)
>MP: Mad World - (forget who it's by)
Hooray for Hollywood - erm... I'l get back to you on that one
>RM: Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles
Spot on.
>WA: Fairytale of New York - The Pogues & Kirsty McColl
I put a spell on you - Nina Simone
>SG: Theme from Shaft - Isaac Hayes (who's the god of our religion, who's
>such a hit with the Quisition? OM! Damn right...)
I don't know if it's just my taste in music, but I have a few for that, just
from two albums:
The Ballad of Peter Pumpinhead or Dear God - I only have one XTC album, you
know
One of the broken or Jordan: The Comeback - Prefab Sprout
>SM: Born To Be Wild - Steppenwolf
Any Buddy Holly song.
>IT: Revolution - The Beatles
Army of me - Bjork
>Maskerade: A Night At The Opera - Queen (or possibly Bohemian Rhapsody)
Quite a lot of Andrew Lloyd-Webber, if you can handle that sort of thing
>CJ: Bela Lugosi Is Dead - Bauhaus
Goin' out of my head - Wes Montgomery
The others I can't top.
Cheers,
Kevin
I wonder where my brain has gone?
I had it here before.
I must have sneezed that bit too hard
and dropped it on the floor.
Kyle
Im submitting these as they come to me, but each time i send a post ill put
the full list..so far a couple for the watch books
Guards!Guards! - Burn it up, by the Offspring (on one of the early albums)
Men at arms- Gun , by Soundgarden (title pun or what?)
feet of clay - Smasher/Devourer by fear factory (for the lyrics not for the
sadly lacking music)
Jingo -either "your in the army now" by Status quo or "Hammer to fall" by
Queen
Heinrich Moertel
[snip]
> Here's my list...
>
> TCOM + TLF: A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procul Harum
TCOM: On the Run - Lake
TLF: Wheel in the Sky - Journey
> ER: The Kids Aren't Alright - The Offspring
ER: When the Children cry - White Lion
> Mort: (Don't Fear) The Reaper - Blue Oyster Cult
I could quite agree with that ;-)
> Sourcery: A Kind Of Magic - Queen
S: Ghost of your Father - New Model Army
> WS: A Question of Time - Depeche Mode
WS: Witch queen of New Orleans - Redbone
> Pyramids: Powerslave - Iron Maiden
P: Walk like an Egyptian - Bangles
> G!G!: Light My Fire - The Doors
G!G!: Firestarter - Prodigy
> Eric: Bat Out Of Hell - Meat Loaf
E: Mephisto - ???
> MP: Mad World - (forget who it's by)
MP: Movie Star - ???
> RM: Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles
RM: Time - Pink Floyd
> WA: Fairytale of New York - The Pogues & Kirsty McColl
WA: Voodoo Child - Jimi Hendrix
> SG: Theme from Shaft - Isaac Hayes (who's the god of our religion, who's
> such a hit with the Quisition? OM! Damn right...)
SG: Loosing my Religion - REM
> L&L: Sex Dwarf - Soft Cell
L&L: Don't believe a Word - Thin Lizzy
> MAA: Anything by Love and Rockets
MAA: Crime in the City - Neil Young
> SM: Born To Be Wild - Steppenwolf
SM: My father was a Rolling Stone - various Artists (anyone know who did
it the first time?)
> IT: Revolution - The Beatles
IT: I Like Chinese - Monty Python
> Maskerade: A Night At The Opera - Queen (or possibly Bohemian Rhapsody)
M: can't think of a better one...
> FoC: Made of Stone - The Stone Roses
FoC: King for a Day - Faith No More
> Hogfather: Santa Claus Is Coming To Town - (artist thankfully forgotten)
HF: Jingle Bells - (artist thankfully forgotten as well... I hate P&O
Ferries who forced me to listen to it for 6 hours)
> Jingo: War! - (original version, forgotten the artist)
J: 1916 - Motörhead
> TLC: Down Under - Men At Work
TLC: The dead Heart - Midnight Oil
> CJ: Bela Lugosi Is Dead - Bauhaus
CJ: Haven't read it... yet.
> <pants for breath>
>
> OK, who's got any better ideas?
Having searched through my whole CD collection (hey, I didn't remember
owning some of them!) I found some better ones IMHO. Chocolates for
anyone who finds even more adequate ones ;-))
Heiner aka Fruusch
--
"Wars not make one great." - Yoda, Jedi Master
Kyle
>TLC: This is where I'd put "Bohemian Rhapsody", if only for the "I see a
>little sillohett-a of a man.."
completely irrelevant to the compo thing but i just wanted to contribute a
filk of that verse:
"i see a little homosexual of a man
scadamoo, scadamoo,
do you see his dick dangle?
thunder and lightning
very very frightening
galileo! (Galileo!)
Galileo(galileo)
He will not let it go(no he wont let it go)"
hope you enjoy....
Leo Breebaart
> "i see a little homosexual of a man
> scadamoo, scadamoo,
> do you see his dick dangle?
> thunder and lightning
> very very frightening
> galileo! (Galileo!)
> Galileo(galileo)
> He will not let it go(no he wont let it go)"
>
> hope you enjoy....
No. Filks I enjoy: (a) scan properly, (b) are funny.
Yours doesn't and isn't.
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
James Green
following nonsense with us....
<snip Kyle's filk>
>> hope you enjoy....
>
>No. Filks I enjoy: (a) scan properly, (b) are funny.
>
>Yours doesn't and isn't.
Erm, does "the wrong side of bed" come into this somewhere? Remember,
everyone who filks now presumable *started* filking at some point...
Anyway, I only mention this because, well, I'm new to this "filking"
deal, and so have some sympathy for people starting out at it... This
needn't mean I *liked* the filk much, but at least I can understand where
he was coming[1] from and such.... I mean, I've posted two filks,
recieved neither "*applause*" (which I don't expect, TBH) nor "try doing
<whatever>", nor any other feedback - so I don't know what I'm doing
right or wrong :(
Anyway, you just triggered a good old random wibble from me - sorry about
that folks!
James Green
[1] Pun *absolutely* intentional. No doubt about it.
--
"Here," "someone's had all the rum truffles." "/And/ from the bottom
layer, too. I hate that, (...)" -- Who said that, and in what book?
mailto:qu...@green7327.freeserve.co.uk with your answers,
Or to any other address you see fit. the quiz one's best tho'
Leo Barium
A woman (David Chapman <sent...@globalnet.co.uk>) came up to me and
said:
>I feel a competition coming on...
>
>Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of the
>Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference, it makes a
>better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just call 'em as you see
>'em.
Right... after a scan through my CD collection, here goes:
CoM - Yesterday (The Beatles)
tLF - Dyin' ain't much of a livin' (Jon Bon Jovi)
ER - It's a kind of Magic
M - Creep (Radiohead)
S - It's the end of the world as we know it (and I feel fine) (REM) /
Black star (Radiohead)
WS - King of the mountain (Bon Jovi)
P - I'll sleep when I'm dead (Bon Jovi)
G!G! - Last of the big time drinkers (Stereophonics)
E - Destination anywhere (Jon Bon Jovi)
MP - Movie Star (Cracker)
RM - Exquisite dead guy (TMBG) / Bones (Radiohead)
WA - Summer Holiday (Sir Cliff Richard)
SG - Keep the faith (Bon Jovi) / Livin' on prayer (Bon Jovi)
LL - Female of the species
MAA - Uzi lover (Fur-Q) / Barrel of a gun (The Levellers)
SM - Memory (Lloyd Webber) / Twist and shout (The Beatles) / You love us
(The Manic Street Preachers)
IT - Catching the butterfly (The Verve)
M! - Theme from The Phantom Menace [1]
FoC - Bad medicine (Bon Jovi)
H - Santa's beard (TMBG)
J - Your racist friend (TMBG)
tLC - Out of Jail (TMBG) / Dry county (Bon Jovi) / Australia (The
Manics)
CJ - Blood on Blood (Bon Jovi)
TTFN
Leo Barium
[1] Okay, it probably doesn't exist, but I just wanted to use the title
for a very cheap joke <g>
--
'I want to thank you for putting me back in my snail shell' - TMBG*
*Geecio Gymraeg(a balch o fe)*FFith thrid OTM*L...@barasi.demon.co.uk*
*'For the Welsh, life is a beer festival' - TXGTT Welsh*33% AFPure*
Kimberley Verburg
>Leo Breebaart was a kind-hearted soul and hence decided to share the
>following nonsense with us....
><snip Kyle's filk>
>>> hope you enjoy....
>>
>>No. Filks I enjoy: (a) scan properly, (b) are funny.
>>
>>Yours doesn't and isn't.
>
>Erm, does "the wrong side of bed" come into this somewhere?
No, just because someone doesn't like a filk doesn't mean they got out
on the wrong side of the bed. Posting a filk here doesn't automatically
mean applause, encouragement or even a neutral silence.
>Anyway, I only mention this because, well, I'm new to this "filking"
>deal, and so have some sympathy for people starting out at it... This
>needn't mean I *liked* the filk much, but at least I can understand where
>he was coming[1] from and such.... I mean, I've posted two filks,
>recieved neither "*applause*" (which I don't expect, TBH) nor "try doing
><whatever>", nor any other feedback - so I don't know what I'm doing
>right or wrong :(
Keep trying afp, it's possible that you received no comments because
people were too busy elsewhere, not because of the articles themselves
-- it does happen. You could also mail your filks to an honest friend
for review.
>[1] Pun *absolutely* intentional. No doubt about it.
--
Kimberley Verburg k...@lspace.org
New here? FAQs for AFP/ABP are at http://www.lspace.org/faqs/
Still need help? Mail the Clue Fairies at afp-...@lspace.org
"You're the closest thing we've got to a woman" - Leo Breebaart
in...@fdhoekstra.nl
>
> Sourcery: A Kind Of Magic - Queen
L'Apprenti Sorcier - Paul Dukas.
> WS: A Question of Time - Depeche Mode
The Hut on Chicken Legs from Mussorgsky's Picture Gallery.
> Pyramids: Powerslave - Iron Maiden
Anything from Aida.
> Eric: Bat Out Of Hell - Meat Loaf
Also L'Apprenti Sorcier. The title fits better with S, the
theme with E. You choose.
> MP: Mad World - (forget who it's by)
Theme from TG,TB&TU. _The_ ultimate film theme.
> L&L: Sex Dwarf - Soft Cell
A Midsummer Night's Dream. Mendelssohn, IIRC.
> IT: Revolution - The Beatles
The Mikado.
> Hogfather: Santa Claus Is Coming To Town - (artist thankfully
> forgotten)
Das Weihnachtsoratorium. Not very appropriate, maybe, but
I _had_ to get Bach in somehow.
> Jingo: War! - (original version, forgotten the artist)
Wellingtons Sieg. Or 1812. Either will do nicely.
Don't forget the guns <g>.
> CJ: Bela Lugosi Is Dead - Bauhaus
Night on the Bare Mountain. That spooky one from The Planets might
do very well, too. Neptune, IIRC.
Richard
Melusine
<in...@fdhoekstra.nl> wrote:
<chop>
> > CJ: Bela Lugosi Is Dead - Bauhaus
>
> Night on the Bare Mountain. That spooky one from The Planets might
> do very well, too. Neptune, IIRC.
Or a Bach fugue or tocatta would do nicely to.
Mel
Jan Mazurek
Metallica's "Of Wolf And Man"
TBN Mazurek
Jan Mazurek
karen
be "Just you wait Gra'am 'iggins"?<g>
In article <7pofco$3om$1...@falcon.pds.twi.tudelft.nl>, Leo Breebaart
<l...@lspace.org> writes
>"Jan Mazurek" <ya...@friko6.onet.pl> writes:
>
>> Matching Enya's songs with DW novels has been my obsession for about two
>> years now. I have much more Enya matchings. I'm sure, however, that some
>> of Vangelis' or Oldfield's track would suit somewhere.
>
You are not Robin's Polish cousin perchance?:)
>Oh sure. "On Horseback" from _Ommadawn_ -- can you say: "Death's theme
>song"?
>
You mean "The Horse Song " shurely?
"I like beer, I like cheese" etc etc. Nah you're confusing Death with
afp ;)
Personally I kinda like Haydn's string quartet G minor ("The Rider")
part 2 but more for the return journey after he has completed the task
in hand. Mozart's Lacrimosa would be pushing it really but it *is* from
a requiem after all.
Of course a little lateral thinking may suggest "Dying" or on a lighter
note "Scissor Man" for Death. (Both by the English band XTC - you may
have come across them:))
Or maybe even "The Eternal" or "Grimly Fiendish" <g>
>--
>Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
>
>Who has severe conceptual difficulties with the idea of using an Enya song,
>*any* Enya song, to visualise a chase scene, *any* chase scene, not
>involving two children's book characters called Sluggy the Slug and Sammy
>the Sloth.
<snigger>
>--
>Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
Oh dearie me, twin sig.s - are you having problems configuring your mail
client perchance?
If so the Clue Fairies <afp-...@lspace.org> can offer all the helpful
advice you may want... O:)
ttfn,
Karen "and she showed up all the errors and mistakes she said..."
--
New to afp/abp? check http://www.lspace.org
Still stuck? Mail the Clue Fairies at afp-...@lspace.org
Ka...@lspace.org (FAQ comments to afp...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk)
David Chapman
news:37C05BDF...@rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de...
> > WS: A Question of Time - Depeche Mode
>
> WS: Witch queen of New Orleans - Redbone
Surely more appropriate for WA, Heinrich?
David Chapman
news:MPG.122b131cf...@news.lspace.org...
> Leo Breebaart was a kind-hearted soul and hence decided to share the
> following nonsense with us....
> <snip Kyle's filk>
> >> hope you enjoy....
> >
> >No. Filks I enjoy: (a) scan properly, (b) are funny.
> >
> >Yours doesn't and isn't.
>
> everyone who filks now presumable *started* filking at some point...
Not the point, James; his filk was intensely homophobic and obscene. Not
that I'm totally innocent of those things, but still... there are limits.
Robin May
James Green shared with us in a way not dissimilar to a man sharing food with
one of his less fortunate fellows (that's the first time I've done one of those
altered "so and so wrote in message such and such" things)
> Leo Breebaart was a kind-hearted soul and hence decided to share the
> following nonsense with us....
> <snip Kyle's filk>
> >> hope you enjoy....
> >
> >No. Filks I enjoy: (a) scan properly, (b) are funny.
> >
> >Yours doesn't and isn't.
>
> Erm, does "the wrong side of bed" come into this somewhere? Remember,
> everyone who filks now presumable *started* filking at some point...
>
Making my return to AFP after a 13 day absence with a rather pathetic post I
will say:
Well you have to admit it was in slightly bad taste.
Heiner Moertel
>
> Heinrich Moertel <hmoe...@rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de> wrote in message
> news:37C05BDF...@rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de...
>
> > > WS: A Question of Time - Depeche Mode
> >
> > WS: Witch queen of New Orleans - Redbone
>
> Surely more appropriate for WA, Heinrich?
Ok, first chocolate bar for you... any preferences?
Heiner
James Green
following nonsense with us....
>ja...@green7327.freeserve.co.uk (James Green) wrote:
>
>>Leo Breebaart was a kind-hearted soul and hence decided to share the
>>following nonsense with us....
>>>
>>>Yours doesn't and isn't.
>>
>>Erm, does "the wrong side of bed" come into this somewhere?
>
>on the wrong side of the bed. Posting a filk here doesn't automatically
>mean applause, encouragement or even a neutral silence.
Nonono. I'm being misunderstood again.. (is it something to with the way
I express myself? must be, since it seems to happen an awful lot...)
The comments in question were perfectly valid, reasonable comments, *but*
they could have been phrased somewhat less, um, harshly, perhaps, I
dunno. And emailed rather than broadcast to the world?
/Or/ I could be being naive again, as so often happens.
<I keep filking to mute response>
>Keep trying afp, it's possible that you received no comments because
>people were too busy elsewhere, not because of the articles themselves
>-- it does happen. You could also mail your filks to an honest friend
>for review.
Hmmm I'll try that last suggestion out next time. Sounds good. Thanks.
James Green
Leo Breebaart
> >> hope you enjoy....
> >
> >No. Filks I enjoy: (a) scan properly, (b) are funny.
> >
> >Yours doesn't and isn't.
>
> Erm, does "the wrong side of bed" come into this somewhere?
Nope. I rarely let my mood of the moment influence the tone of my posts. In
this case I was indeed consciously and deliberately trying to be nasty.
Glad to see I've succeeded in getting that across. :-)
> Remember, everyone who filks now presumable *started* filking at some
> point...
Oh, come now. This was *not* me arbitrarily burning down some poor sap who
had just put his first careful steps on the filking path with an effort
that could perhaps not entirely meet my insanely high standards of quality.
Instead, this was me taking exception to the fact that the author had the
gall to reproduce (and badly, at that) eight lines of a popular song,
substitute the naughty words "homosexual" (Freddie Mercury was gay, doncha
know?) and "dick" (presumably Freddie had one) at near-random positions,
and call the result a "filk". Feh.
No attempt at properly parodying an entire song or at least a considerable
part thereof; no afp, Pratchett, or any other type of relevance; and worst
of all: not even *remotely* funny, except perhaps to those who think that
the word "homosexual" in itself is somehow hilarious. In short, this was
stoopid, juvenile, possibly homophobic toilet humour of the worst kind, not
worthy of posting *anywhere*, and if my slightly acidic comments in this
thread will manage to stop any more filks of *that* particular kind from
appearing on a.f.p. or elsewhere, I am going to consider it a personal
victory against the Forces of Darkness and claim ten Karma brownie points.
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
Leo Breebaart
> I'm new to this "filking" deal, and so have some sympathy for people
> starting out at it [...] I mean, I've posted two filks, recieved neither
> "*applause*" (which I don't expect, TBH) nor "try doing <whatever>", nor
> any other feedback - so I don't know what I'm doing right or wrong :(
This kind of thing happens occasionally to all of us, and it never stops
being utterly frustrating. You spend lots of time polishing a post (say a
meet report, or a filk) that you feel is *certain* to entertain (or annoy,
depending on your inclination) people and give you at least the
satisfaction of *some* feedback -- and then when you send it out in the
world, the response is zero, nada, zilch, desert winds whooshing
tumbleweeds softly across the prairie sands. Welcome to the wonderful world
of Usenet.
In your case it will not have helped that you posted your filk at a point
when afp had already been buried in filks for some time, so their novelty
and discussion value had worn off.
I've had a quick look, and for what it's worth, I thought your Crocodile
Rock filk (people reading this who want to look it up: search
<http://www.deja.com> for "(~a james) & (~a green) & taupin"), while a
decent try, was a bit too clunky to really qualify as a winner. On a scale
from 1 to 10 I'd rank it a low 6.
There were way too many artificial pronunciations and explanatory
footnotes needed to make everything work, although I do appreciate you made
the effort to get things to scan -- proper scansion is *essential* for a
parody or filk, but sadly often neglected. Even you only managed it
partially.
I also felt the filk's lyrical theme could have been stronger; for example,
as it is, the chorus isn't really connected to the verses at all, and
certainly not in a way evocative of the original lyrics. In that sense, the
filk might have worked better if you'd kept the tone melancholy, e.g. have
it be the memories of an old fart who bemoans the fact that the group --
for him -- *did* die. This as opposed to the positive twist you tried to
give it, and which feels a bit forced.
Awkwardest of all: you mess with the rhyming scheme somewhat terrible. The
first verse of the original song rhymes "young, fun, stones, own". It's a
bit of a crap rhyme to begin with, I'll grant you that, but it's clear that
the scheme's AABB. Then you turn it into "young, fun, stuff, dun" -- AABA!
And for the second verse you turn AAAA (or possibly BAAA) into ABAB. That
really won't do; it makes one (well, me) come to a screeching halt when
attempting to mentally sing the filk. Oh, and for rhyming "not dead" with
"drum mended" you deserve to, I don't know, have a rope put around your
neck and be bally well hanged until it really hurts.
On the positive side, I *really* liked the transformation of "Me and Susie"
into "Gid 'n' Suzi". In my opinion that's the kind of nugget that good
filks are built around. Oh, and "aubergines" for "old blue jeans" also
definitely made me smile. :-)
I was not able to find the second filk you mention anywhere, not on
Deja.com and not in my own archives. Can you tell us when you posted it and
what it was about?
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
Kyle
<snip non-filk and other stuff, then goes and cries in
corner for half an hour>
</crying>
well now that thats over with, an obviously overdue
apology to Mr breebart for not being a born filker ,
although i question the scanning bit. Is it the last line?
hm thoguht so, cos the rest fits fine...
guess that FAQ that went on about courtesy was trying for sarcasm..... well
done to whoever wrote it, you certainly
fooled me, but then im just a newbie so my miserable
little opinion doesnt count....dont worry i wont be fooled
again in the future!! once bitten twice shy (or possibly
very silly but there you are....)
anyway, good day to you all, im just going to hang up
my filking hat and then go for another cry
James Green
following nonsense with us....
>
>> >> hope you enjoy....
>> >
>> >No. Filks I enjoy: (a) scan properly, (b) are funny.
>> >
>> >Yours doesn't and isn't.
>>
>> Erm, does "the wrong side of bed" come into this somewhere?
>
>Nope. I rarely let my mood of the moment influence the tone of my posts. In
>this case I was indeed consciously and deliberately trying to be nasty.
>Glad to see I've succeeded in getting that across. :-)
Yup. Comment withdrawn (too late to cancelwith any good effect, really,
but there ya go). Obviously you, like certain other people, only get
nasty when nastiness is worthwhile... well done to ya.
James Green
Making a prat of himself again. *sigh*
SpareTurtle
<in...@fdhoekstra.nl> did cause random lightning to carve...
> David Chapman wrote:
>
> > WS: A Question of Time - Depeche Mode
>
>
I would submit that The Hut on Chicken Legs would be better for Witches
Abroad, as there is a hut on duck's feet[1] that features, and is based on the
same Russian fairy tale.
LHDAB
SpareTurtle
[1] Well it is in a swamp.
Jennie Lees
> Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of the
> Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference, it makes a
> better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just call 'em as you see
> 'em.
OK, a couple of mine are rather more general than the others mentioned
so far... and I'll think of more on the train, most likely...
MP: "Fame!" - artist forgotten
M!M: An incredibly well-written combination of modern stage shows, such
as Lloyd Webber's musicals, and opera that *works well*. Such a piece of
music has yet to exist IMO, but we can but hope...
Hf: The entire contents of my "Best Christmas Songs In The World - Ever"
double CD. Apart from, I think, Robson and Jerome, which fits into...
SG: "I Believe" - Robson and Jerome. Well, I had to put it in
*somewhere*...
P or WS: The Time Warp
J: Any World-Wars-period music hall song, really. "Who do you think you
are kidding, Johnny Klatchian, if you think Ankh-Morpork's done..."
Although the one I was thinking of begins, "Oh, we don't want to lose
you, but we think you ought to go..."
tLC: Anything by either Kylie, Jason or Rolf Harris. Although not "Two
Little Boys", or the Locomotion. Oh, and Waltzing Matilda (did someone
say that?), of course.
And characters -
Magrat in WA: "Beautiful Stranger" - Madonna
Nanny Ogg: The Hedgehog Song. It had to be.
Jennie
(who is trying to think of songs that don't just rely on title puns and
aren't by Radiohead or Queen [1], but is failing rapidly... <g> and
finding this fun nonetheless)
[1] OK, so I listened to OK Computer and a compilation Best of Queen
type tape - both twice - today. 'Snot my fault my other tapes got chewed
up, is it?
--
Allegedly written by Jennie Lees +++ afpiancée to Jonathan and Mary
and Gareth's afparamour +++ mail me at - mailto:le...@ukonline.co.uk
ICQ - 22707531 + IRC - AFPumpkin + http://web.ukonline.co.uk/jlees/
G.Higgins
> Remember,
> everyone who filks now presumable *started* filking at some point...
You tried it just the once, found it all right for kicks, but now you
find it's a habit that sticks... (there could be pedant-ticks for this)
> Anyway, I only mention this because, well, I'm new to this "filking"
> deal, and so have some sympathy for people starting out at it... This
> needn't mean I *liked* the filk much, but at least I can understand where
> he was coming[1] from and such....
> [1] Pun *absolutely* intentional. No doubt about it.
So you begin with crude, or pig-filk and refine it? I think this is
true. We most of us can turn out respectable filk, but we all rather
envy the crafted finish of a hammered Holyoake.
G.
--
'...the news today will be the movies for tomorrow...'
-Life is too short to emoticon-
Remove xx to reply by mail
James Green
following nonsense with us....
<snip>
>In your case it will not have helped that you posted your filk at a point
>when afp had already been buried in filks for some time, so their novelty
>and discussion value had worn off.
Good point, although the only reason I was inspired to filk was, well,
the flood of filks arriving on AFP! A vicious cycle, it seems. Oh well.
[regarding "AFPodile Rock"]
>There were way too many artificial pronunciations and explanatory
>footnotes needed to make everything work, although I do appreciate you made
>the effort to get things to scan -- proper scansion is *essential* for a
>parody or filk, but sadly often neglected. Even you only managed it
>partially.
I think the footnotes went a bit OTT - a simple note at the start would
have covered everything, tbh. 'Twas a first effort though, and I've
learnt since....
>I also felt the filk's lyrical theme could have been stronger;
<snip rest of paragraph>
At the time, I thought that too. I kind of mixed up too many themes, and
didn;t put it all together at the end. Still, I lived and learned.
<snip more helpful criticism>
> Oh, and for rhyming "not dead" with
>"drum mended" you deserve to, I don't know, have a rope put around your
>neck and be bally well hanged until it really hurts.
Ah, um, yes.... sorry folks! But these things happen, right?
>On the positive side, I *really* liked the transformation of "Me and Susie"
>into "Gid 'n' Suzi". In my opinion that's the kind of nugget that good
>filks are built around. Oh, and "aubergines" for "old blue jeans" also
>definitely made me smile. :-)
Oh, the Gid 'n' Suzi line was the first line that got written...
everything else got shoved into place from there, really. And aubergines?
Well, I have something of an obsession.... ;-)
>I was not able to find the second filk you mention anywhere, not on
>Deja.com and not in my own archives. Can you tell us when you posted it and
>what it was about?
Erm, I can't seem to find it either. Nor do I have a "sent items" folder
that it would be in. It was titled "Pretty Clueful", had a much tighter
theme, stuck to the tune and so on, and so *should* have been a vast
improvement on AFPodile Rock... but it's gone missing. :(
Maybe I'll rewrite it if it doesn't turn up, ok?
James Green
Searching, ever searching
Martin Julian DeMello
> Kimberley Verburg was a kind-hearted soul and hence decided to share the
> following nonsense with us....
>>No, just because someone doesn't like a filk doesn't mean they got out
>>on the wrong side of the bed. Posting a filk here doesn't automatically
>>mean applause, encouragement or even a neutral silence.
> Nonono. I'm being misunderstood again.. (is it something to with the way
> I express myself? must be, since it seems to happen an awful lot...)
> The comments in question were perfectly valid, reasonable comments, *but*
> they could have been phrased somewhat less, um, harshly, perhaps, I
> dunno. And emailed rather than broadcast to the world?
Not in this case - the filk in question was not just unfunny but offensive,
and in fact requires considerable benefit-of-doubt not to be labelled a
troll. I thought the comments in question were pretty mild considering.
--
Martin DeMello
Ben Hutchings
In article <7pog85$3dk$2...@gxsn.com>,
David Chapman <sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>TCOM + TLF: A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Procul Harum
Lucky You - Lightning Seeds
>ER: The Kids Aren't Alright - The Offspring
Just A Girl She Said - Dubstar
A Girl Like You - Edwyn Collins
<snip>
>Pyramids: Powerslave - Iron Maiden
History Repeating - Shirley Bassey
>G!G!: Light My Fire - The Doors
We Have Explosive - Future Sound of London
<snip>
>RM: Eleanor Rigby - The Beatles
Zombie - The Cranberries
For The Dead - Gene
<snip>
>MAA: Anything by Love and Rockets
Barrel Of A Gun - Depeche Mode
>SM: Born To Be Wild - Steppenwolf
This Is Music - The Verve
Rock'n'Roll Suicide - David Bowie
<snip>
>FoC: Made of Stone - The Stone Roses
Paranoid Android - Radiohead
<snip>
>Jingo: War! - (original version, forgotten the artist)
Out Of The Sinking - Paul Weller
Smoke On The Water - Deep Purple
>TLC: Down Under - Men At Work
Australia - Manic Street Preachers
Lifeforms - Future Sound of London
<snip>
--
Ben Hutchings - wom...@zzumbouk.demon.co.uk, http://www.zzumbouk.demon.co.uk
Team *AMIGA* | Jay Miner Society | Linux - the choice of a GNU generation
Creativity is no substitute for knowing what you are doing.
karen
writes
>
><snip non-filk and other stuff, then goes and cries in
>corner for half an hour>
></crying>
Surely you didn't post your filk just for undiluted praise but also for
feedback? If the former then possibly just mailing it to your friends
would be better. If the latter then feedback is what you should expect.
In which case looking at previous efforts should give you a reasonable
idea of the typical standard and typical response. It doesn't *have* to
be a Dog/Holyoake/Mole/Ellis standard to be enjoyed but they are the
yardsticks which will help you judge your own before posting.
>well now that thats over with, an obviously overdue
>apology to Mr breebart for not being a born filker ,
>although i question the scanning bit. Is it the last line?
> hm thoguht so, cos the rest fits fine...
Mileage will always vary, especially in creative matters. I have trouble
fitting it myself but maybe it is just my strange accent...
But looking at most of the filks posted here and on the filks page they
generally do show a degree of originality and humour which you may well
acknowledge was rather better. Fair enough - you are, of course, not
going to produce a perfect result first time but therefore it isn't
sensible to expect everyone to love your first efforts is it? And if you
combine limited quality with dubious taste then frankly what *do* you
expect?
>guess that FAQ that went on about courtesy was trying for sarcasm..... well
>done to whoever wrote it, you certainly
>fooled me, but then im just a newbie so my miserable
>little opinion doesnt count....dont worry i wont be fooled
>again in the future!! once bitten twice shy (or possibly
>very silly but there you are....)
>anyway, good day to you all, im just going to hang up
>my filking hat and then go for another cry
Oh come on - really. Where was the lack of courtesy - where were you
personally insulted? Do not confuse criticism of content with personal
insult. If you cannot distinguish between the too you will have quite a
problem on Usenet. Especially if you post articles which are badly
configured, of limited quality and humour which comes across ad juvenile
and homophobic.
Reread that FAQ - you will find it distinguishes very clearly between
personal flaming and criticism/argument. You will have a trying time
anywhere on usenet if you are not sure of the difference.
ttfn,
Karen
--
New to afp/abp? check http://www.lspace.org
Still stuck? Mail the Clue Fairies at afp-...@lspace.org
Ka...@lspace.org (FAQ comments to afp...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk)
"TOTClue Fairy" - from "sig.s for dummies" by jldomini
Kimberley Verburg
><snip non-filk and other stuff, then goes and cries in
>corner for half an hour>
></crying>
>well now that thats over with, an obviously overdue
>apology to Mr breebart for not being a born filker ,
>although i question the scanning bit. Is it the last line?
> hm thoguht so, cos the rest fits fine...
Not even remotely. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the original
lyrics -- that is a minimal requirement of a successful filk.
>guess that FAQ that went on about courtesy was trying for sarcasm.....
You seem to have a very selective definition of courtesy, which
obviously doesn't include the simple operations of locating the shift
key on your keyboard, checking your spelling and formatting, including
attributions or even quoting the salient parts of the followed-up
article in your post so people know what's going on in the thread.
Criticising a filk as Leo Breebaart did (and that's with two As, it's
also polite to spell someone's name correctly) is not by definition
rude. As I've pointed out elsewhere, the mere act of posting a filk
doesn't mean that people will automatically like it, that is the risk
you take when you post to a public forum.
>well
>done to whoever wrote it, you certainly
>fooled me, but then im just a newbie so my miserable
>little opinion doesnt count....
That has nothing to do with you being a newbie, you wrote a filk with a
level of humour a ten-year old would be embarrassed to own and you were
called on it -- quit sulking.
--
Kimberley Verburg k...@lspace.org
New here? Info about AFP/ABP is at http://www.lspace.org/faqs/
Richard Eney
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org> wrote:
<snip>
> if my slightly acidic comments in this
>thread will manage to stop any more filks of *that* particular kind from
>appearing on a.f.p. or elsewhere, I am going to consider it a personal
>victory against the Forces of Darkness and claim ten Karma brownie points.
<memo: Leo gets ten Karma brownie points>
AOL
=Tamar
David Chapman
news:7ps4as$9bj$1...@talia.mad.ttd.net...
>
> <snip non-filk and other stuff, then goes and cries in
> corner for half an hour>
> </crying>
> well now that thats over with, an obviously overdue
> apology to Mr breebart for not being a born filker ,
> although i question the scanning bit. Is it the last line?
> hm thoguht so, cos the rest fits fine...
No, they weren't - but the courtesy rules are suspended when it comes to
replying to people scribing homophobic comments and other trolls. Believe
me, I've been there, done that and worn the T-shirt on afp and got killfiled
for comments a lot less offensive than yours.
well
> done to whoever wrote it, you certainly
> fooled me, but then im just a newbie so my miserable
> little opinion doesnt count....dont worry i wont be fooled
> again in the future!! once bitten twice shy (or possibly
> very silly but there you are....)
> anyway, good day to you all, im just going to hang up
> my filking hat and then go for another cry
There's no point complaining about it; you just have to start writing lucid
posts that others reply to, so that the folk who've plonked you can see
examples of your reconstruction. Otherwise, you might as well just hang up
your *posting* hat and go home.
David Chapman
news:1999082322...@pokkettz.demon.co.uk...
> James Green <ja...@green7327.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Remember,
> > everyone who filks now presumable *started* filking at some point...
>
> You tried it just the once, found it all right for kicks, but now you
> find it's a habit that sticks... (there could be pedant-ticks for this)
"Teenage filks all through the night" in James's case, I think.
Shim
Page) expounded:
>I'm compiling a list of these suggestions, and will do so until the
>end of the week; I'll HTMLise them and put them up on my web page
>soon.
>
>And now for my suggestions:
Ooh, let's have a go... I'm working my way through Biograph, [2] so I'll
make these all Dylan suggestions [3] - yes, I'm obsesse(d|ive). Feel free to
substitute cover versions of any\all... some are better. <g>
[WARNING: Any of these may emerge as filks in the next few months...]
>Guards! Guards!
Clean-Cut Kid.
>Men At Arms
> Finland Red, Egypt White - The Sisterhood [1]
License To Kill.
Hurricane.
>Feet of Clay
I Shall Be Released.
Ballad Of A Thin Man.
>Small Gods
With God On Our Side.
>Interesting Times
The Times They Are A-Changin'
>Soul Music
Eternal Circle [4]
Like A Rolling Stone? On title alone, anyhow.
>Jingo
Masters Of War.
>Carpe Jugulum
Angelina, but probably only after listening to it for five days straight.
Not eating would probably help. [5]
>And for characters:
>
>Rincewind
Idiot Wind - again, only on title.
Only A Pawn In Their Game, or at least portions.
Rainy Day Women #s 12 & 35 [6]
John Wesley Harding... well, in fourecks, anyway...
>Angua
Ye Shall Be Changed
>[1] The lyrics being the spec. of the AK47 assault rifle
Ah, so *that's* what it's about. Someone on another NG's been using it as a
.sig and refusing to explain...
Oh - one last thing. Little comment that came to me as I racked my brains
here, this from Love Minus Zero:
"In the dime stores and bus stations,
People talk of situations,
Read books, repeat quotations,
Draw conclusions on the wall."
Heh... afp? <g>
[2] Find a copy. Listen. Marvel.
[3] Well, that's what? 4-500 possibilities? Not at all limiting...
[4] Arguably Dylan's best, though a little hard to find. Excellent song.
[5] Kinda relevant reference there. Chocolate &\or kudos to them what spot
it.
[6] Though nobody ever calls it [7] this, it seems.
[7] 'Everybody Must Get Stoned', since you ask. And not the alternative
meaning, either. Nyahh.
-Shim.
Alistair Davidse
David Chapman wrote:
>
> I feel a competition coming on...
>
> Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of the
> Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference, it
> makes a better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just call
> 'em as you see 'em.
>
<snip>
> MP: Mad World - (forget who it's by)
Tears For Fears
<more snipping>
> Maskerade: A Night At The Opera - Queen (or possibly Bohemian > Rhapsody)
Pedant: A Night At The Opera was the album that Bohemian Rhapsody came
from, and you did ask for tracks with links to the books...
Alistair
--
"The restless wind
Has seen all things, in every kind of light
Rising with the full moon, to go howling through the night"
-- Rush - Available Light
Arwen Lune
Once upon a time Leo Breebaart gave a rather interesting review of James
Greens' filk.
<snip review>
Would you mind to review my first [and only so far] filk as well?
I too, didn't got feedback and I'd like to know what was wrong with it, so I
can do better next time. :-)
[ I cut'npasted it into this message to save you the digging]
<on the tune of Bryan Adams' song 'The Summer of '69' >
___________________________________________
When I first heard 'bout it – 't was yet to late to get in line
Wanted to be right there at– the ClareCraft of '99
Me and the lot on AFP – had a club and we cried real hard
There was tea and there was chocolate - but it never really helped that much
Oh but when I look back now – that weekend seemed to last forever
And had I had the choice – damn sure I would have been there
Those were the worst days of my life
Ain't no use in complaining –but we did it anyway
Spent my weekend down at AFP – and that's where I met you - all
Sitting all behind our screens – we sweared that we'd be there next time
But when I read the lost chapter – I knew there that we had fun too
Those were the worst days of my life – in that weekend of '99
Man we were killin' time
bored and frustrated – we needed to unwind
Good thing that nothing can last forever….
And now the rest has come back
from ClareCraft ninetyninetynine
And when I reread that lost chapter
I wonder how we could have fun
Sitting all behind our screens – we sweared that we'd be there next time
But when I read the lost chapter – I knew there that we had fun too
Those were the worst days of my life – in that weekend of '99
___________________________________________________
Arwen Lune [ A-lune ]
'She who is to hasty to dig up her .sig'
r...@lspace.org
> [...] and if my slightly acidic comments in this
> thread will manage to stop any more filks of *that* particular kind from
> appearing on a.f.p. or elsewhere, I am going to consider it a personal
> victory against the Forces of Darkness and claim ten Karma brownie points.
Well said that Ent.
- Rob.
--
Robert Collier Smile, it makes people wonder
r...@ossifrage.net what you are thinking...
Kyle
would just like to add a sincere apology to all re the (now that i think
about it ) homophobic statement in the aforementioned filk-thing...
sorry..i dint mean to offend, it was one of those things that got made up
after rather a lot of drinking one night and i never really thought about
what it meant....
serious apologies to anyone i offended, i dint mean to.
Arwen Lune
for some reason didn't came through.
sorrysorrysorry
Here it is again: probably a lot better to read.
__________
"The ClareCraft of '99"
When I first heard 'bout it – 't was yet to late to get in line
Wanted to be right there at– the ClareCraft of '99
Me and the lot on AFP – had a club and we cried real hard
There was tea and there was chocolate - but it never really helped that much
Oh but when I look back now – that weekend seemed to last forever
And had I had the choice – damn sure I would have been there
Those were the worst days of my life
Ain't no use in complaining –but we did it anyway
Spent my weekend down at AFP – and that's where I met you - all
Sitting all behind our screens – we sweared that we'd be there next time
But when I read the lost chapter – I knew there that we had fun too
Those were the worst days of my life – in that weekend of '99
Man we were killin' time
bored and frustrated – we needed to unwind
Good thing that nothing can last forever….
And now the rest has come back
from ClareCraft ninetyninetynine
And when I reread that lost chapter
I wonder how we could have fun
Sitting all behind our screens – we sweared that we'd be there next time
But when I read the lost chapter – I knew there that we had fun too
Those were the worst days of my life – in that weekend of '99
__________________
sorrysorrysorry!
--
Arwen Lune: Lady in Blue, in-betweenie, clueful blonde, starter of the
infamous cat-thread, NGF-sister of M’lady Aeowyn, founder of the
WWACCDE99-club and part of a secret, evil masterplan with Finvarra, Sidhe,
Key-Bearer and the 2Faced Elf.
James Green
following nonsense with us....<snipped all>
>Well said that Ent.
>
> - Rob.
Erm, let me get this straight... Leo is a tree? No, that can't be
right... Ho hoom.
James Green
Confuzzled
Alex Page
end of the week; I'll HTMLise them and put them up on my web page
soon.
And now for my suggestions:
Equal Rites
This Girl - Birmingham Six
Lords & Ladies
The Beautiful Ones - Suede
The Beautiful People - Marilyn Manson
Men At Arms
Finland Red, Egypt White - The Sisterhood [1]
Big Man with a Gun - Nine Inch Nails
Feet of Clay
Master & Servant - Depeche Mode
Small Gods
Faith - George Michael
One Of Us - generic angsty SWF, prob. Meredrith Brookes
Heresy - Nine Inch Nails
Interesting Times
Revolution Action! - Atari Teenage Riot
Wyrd Sisters
Time - Supergrass
Sisters are doing it for themselves
Soul Music
Scum - Children On Stun
Jingo
Killing an Arab - The Cure
Carpe Jugulum
Anything by Nosferatu
And for characters:
Rincewind
Keep on Running - (forget who)
Paranoid - Black Sabbath / Ultraviolence /
Type O Negative / Megadeth
Angua
Wolf Moon - Type O Negative
Alex
[1] The lyrics being the spec. of the AK47 assault rifle
--
AFPexhousemate of Dooferlad, and still Naomi's AFPbit-on-the-side :)
Hug-monster, morris man and general purpose black clad wierdo.
47% AFPure (new test). MancGoff: http://www.gothicdreams.net/grimoire
Jan Mazurek
two
> >> years now. I have much more Enya matchings. I'm sure, however, that
some
> >> of Vangelis' or Oldfield's track would suit somewhere.
> >
>
> You are not Robin's Polish cousin perchance?:)
Let me quote Lupin Wonse:
"Wha?"
<reads all messages>
Oh, THIS Robin... Yep, I'm something like him, but more.
TBN Mazurek
--
******************
Seré una ola
Seré una luna
He sido todo, soy yo
G.Higgins
> There's no point complaining about it; you just have to start writing lucid
> posts that others reply to, so that the folk who've plonked you can see
> examples of your reconstruction. Otherwise, you might as well just hang up
> your *posting* hat and go home.
The Posting of the Filk is clearly a matter of more significance here
than we the uninitiated fully understand (I'm responding to Kyle here).
I hesitated to include that fillet o' filk in my original post because
it wasn't, you know *prime* - and then I left it in because it's
beholden on the fringe-subscriber to demonstrate goodwill, and when
better than when they round on you and snip your filk?
As Leo pointed out, how much more dispiriting to bung off the bon mots
and hear nothing but birdsong clear to the next county?
G.Higgins
> Get behind me Graham for sucking me into music threads...or should that
> be "Just you wait Gra'am 'iggins"?<g>
*Gasp*. Loosens collar...
The Flying Hamster
>r...@lspace.org was a kind-hearted soul and hence decided to share the
>following nonsense with us....
>>In article <7ps74a$h4o$1...@falcon.pds.twi.tudelft.nl>,
>>Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org> wrote:
><snipped all>
>>Well said that Ent.
>right... Ho hoom.
Nope, Leo is an Ent, a treeherd not a tree
We are treeherdsm we old Ents. Few enough of us are left now Sheep
get like shepherd, and shepherds like, it is said; but slowly, and
neither have long in this world. It is quicker and closer with trees
and Ents, and they walk down the ages together -- Master Fangorn, of
Fangorn forest, Middle Earth in the third age of the world
I'll stop tolkgeeking now... :)
Mark
--
This is a sig, it's not a smart sig or an AI sig, but it's a sig to
replace the sig that died during the death of data... the sig is dead,
long live the sig
Raphael Kirschke
Pyramids: Who wants to live forever (Queen)
Raphael
--
Archangel Raphael in the Heavenly Host
and official victim of The One And Only Seraph
"Fantasy is like alcohol - too much is bad for you, a little bit makes the
world a better place."
MegaMole
<ham...@wibble.org> writes
>Nope, Leo is an Ent, a treeherd not a tree
>
>We are treeherdsm we old Ents. Few enough of us are left now
This humble mole waits with bated breath for the Entwives and Entings...
I'll just get my Valquetta-i-Olvar...[1]
[1] 20 fake ppoints for the reference; this is HARD
--
Moley
Suzi
> On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:49:40 +0100, James Green <ja...@green7327.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >r...@lspace.org was a kind-hearted soul and hence decided to share the
> >following nonsense with us....
> >>In article <7ps74a$h4o$1...@falcon.pds.twi.tudelft.nl>,
> >>Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org> wrote:
> ><snipped all>
> >>Well said that Ent.
> >Erm, let me get this straight... Leo is a tree? No, that can't be
> >right... Ho hoom.
>
> Nope, Leo is an Ent, a treeherd not a tree
>
> We are treeherdsm we old Ents. Few enough of us are left now Sheep
> get like shepherd, and shepherds like, it is said; but slowly, and
and shepherds like sheep?
> neither have long in this world. It is quicker and closer with trees
> and Ents, and they walk down the ages together -- Master Fangorn, of
> Fangorn forest, Middle Earth in the third age of the world
"For Ents are more like Elves: less interested in themselves than Men
are, and better at getting inside other things."
Hmmm... wonder if this accounts for the preponderance of Entish geeky
types around here <g>
> I'll stop tolkgeeking now... :)
Ditto
Suzi
--
Need help with afp?... mail the clue fairies afp-...@lspace.org
New to afp? point your browser at http://www.lspace.org/
New to Usenet posting? browse http://psg.com/emily.html
The Irrelevant page: http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gidnsuzi/index.html
Jennie Lees
afp...
<snip>
> >FoC: Made of Stone - The Stone Roses
> Paranoid Android - Radiohead
I'd put this with tLC - for the "rain down, rain down" bit. Or possibly,
more specifically, Rincewind... I can just hear a filk of it now, perhaps
called 'Paranoid Wizzard' or something -
"Please could you let me be, I'm trying to run away, from all the
creatures that just might kill me today,
Good-bye, good-bye... (I'm paranoid. I'm a wizzard.)
When I am gone you will see nothing but dust, and you'll have wasted all
that useless effort and fuss
Good-bye, good-bye...
Other wizards think that I'm useless
Even a magician couldn't do less
Death still remembers, Death still remembers, why does Death remember my
name? Off with my head now! I think I'm dead now, why does Death remember
my name? I hope he doesn't...
Rain down, rain down, come on rain down on me, from a great height, from
a great hei-i-ght, hei-i-ght, rain down, rain down, come on rain down on
me, from a great height, from a great height...
(Oh shit now. I'm dying. But nobody's crying... the dust and the
screaming, I really think they've got it in- the panic, the chaos, the
panic, the chaos, I can escape again, I can escape again, Yeah!)"
Oh, gods. Spontaneous bad filking (mostly from memory, too). This is Not
Good...
Jennie
Andrew Nevill
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org> wrote in message
news:7ps74a$h4o$1...@falcon.pds.twi.tudelft.nl...
> ja...@green7327.freeserve.co.uk (James Green) writes:
>
> > >> hope you enjoy....
> > >
> > >No. Filks I enjoy: (a) scan properly, (b) are funny.
> > >
> > >Yours doesn't and isn't.
> >
> > Erm, does "the wrong side of bed" come into this somewhere?
>
> Nope. I rarely let my mood of the moment influence the tone of my posts.
In
> this case I was indeed consciously and deliberately trying to be nasty.
> Glad to see I've succeeded in getting that across. :-)
>
>
> > Remember, everyone who filks now presumable *started* filking at some
> > point...
>
> had just put his first careful steps on the filking path with an effort
> that could perhaps not entirely meet my insanely high standards of
quality.
>
> Instead, this was me taking exception to the fact that the author had the
> gall to reproduce (and badly, at that) eight lines of a popular song,
> substitute the naughty words "homosexual" (Freddie Mercury was gay, doncha
> know?) and "dick" (presumably Freddie had one) at near-random positions,
> and call the result a "filk". Feh.
>
> No attempt at properly parodying an entire song or at least a considerable
> part thereof; no afp, Pratchett, or any other type of relevance; and worst
> of all: not even *remotely* funny, except perhaps to those who think that
> the word "homosexual" in itself is somehow hilarious. In short, this was
> stoopid, juvenile, possibly homophobic toilet humour of the worst kind,
not
> worthy of posting *anywhere*, and if my slightly acidic comments in this
> thread will manage to stop any more filks of *that* particular kind from
> appearing on a.f.p. or elsewhere, I am going to consider it a personal
> victory against the Forces of Darkness and claim ten Karma brownie points.
>
> Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
Sorry to jump on the same bandwagon as every one else but I must agree with
Leo.
I have to say I only read that "filk" today (I haven't been keeping up with
this thread) and I found it offensive (as well as a plain awful effort).
If you'd sent that off to a magazine it would never get published. Surely
the rule has to be that if it's something a magazine would throw in the
waste bin then don't post it.
I know my opinion probably don't count for much as I'm still basicly a
clueless newbie but I've been reading AFP for two weeks and that's the first
time anything so terrible has appeared. Keep the standard up folks because
I'm very happy to say I enjoy reading the various post very much. Hope the
few I've posted (including this) haven't dragged the newsgroup down.
Andrew Nevill
-----------Begin AFP Codeblock-------
Comment: I Haven't Lost My Mind - It's Backed Up On Disk Somewhere
AFP Code 1.1a: AC$/OtD-UK d S:--- a- UP++ F? h(++) P-- OSD--:+
C+++ M? pp--- L+ c- B Cn-:+:+ PT+++ PU52- 5++>+++ X? MT eV+ r x?
------------End AFP Codeblock-----------
Adrian P. Morgan (8'FED)
^
| Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of the
| Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference, it
makes a
| better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just call 'em as
you see
| 'em.
Now that idea I *like*!
Can't think of any, though.
Except ...
L&L - "Circle Me" by ... yet again ... Coleman & Bartle [1].
Jingo - "Snowy River Men" by some Australian group I can't recall [2].
If we can extend this to what songs we associate with *afpers*, then
how about:
Gid - "The Shed" [3]
Miscellaneous Female Afpers - "Teresa" ... (Back to Coleman and Bartle)
[4]
Charis - "Across the waters" (I think) by Jimmy Gregory [5]
[1]
Circle me O God, Circle me O God
Keep hope within, despair without
Circle me O God, Circle me O God
Keep peace within, keep turmoil out
O my loving God, O my loving God, O my loving God, O my loving God
[continues with love/hatred, calm/storms, strength/weakness,
light/darkness]
[distinctly Irish-style instrumental]
When my heart is hard (keep your light in front of me)
When my tongue is sharp (keep your light in front of me)
When my eyes are far away from you, when I need someone
Circle in the dark, keep your light in front of me, I need someone.
And so on in basically that vein.
Wonderful song. It was the song I played at full volume on the night
of a certain personal tragedy a couple of years ago.
[2]
I'm really only referring to one line here - I think the words "that
way" in the chorus refer to jingoism:
"And the snowy river men just couldn't march the day
There's far too many of them dead for the rest to feel that way
The whole ground of Europe has been watered with their blood
There's a strange new crop of crosses rising in this foreign mud".
[3]
Both this and the above (Snowy River Men) come from the first of the
series of tapes connected with the radio show, "Australia All Over". I
therefore don't remember the actual composers/performers, (nor, for
that matter, all the words):
"Well my old shed she leaks a bit the roof is falling in
She creaks and sways on windy days and leans toward the south
The beams are all telegraph poles what ants have eaten in"
...
To think about the things his woman said -
Yeah all Australian boys need a shed."
[4] "There is a lady who'll give you her spirit like bread
There is a lady with a heart that conquers her head
There is a lady with peace in her pocket
and a tear for all who have bled
There is a lady who offers the weary a bed"
[5]
Basically because it amuses me to replace "Carry" with "Charis" in:
"Carry me across the dark old water
Lead me safe into the harbour
In your love I will find shelter
So that we can be together once again"
--
www. | Here and there I like to preserve a few islands of sanity
netyp.com/ | within the vast sea of absurdity which is my mind.
member/ | After all, you can't survive as an eight foot tall
dragon | flesh eating dragon if you've got no concept of reality.
The Flying Hamster
>In article <slrn7s5qtp....@weasel.vom.tm>, The Flying Hamster
>(ham...@wibble.org) wibbled...
>
>> On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:49:40 +0100, James Green
>> <ja...@green7327.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> Nope, Leo is an Ent, a treeherd not a tree
>>
>> We are treeherdsm we old Ents. Few enough of us are left now Sheep
>> get like shepherd, and shepherds like, it is said; but slowly, and
>and shepherds like sheep?
I just knew someone would pick me up on that typo ;)
[...]
>Hmmm... wonder if this accounts for the preponderance of Entish geeky
>types around here <g>
:)
in...@fdhoekstra.nl
>
> Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of
> the Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference,
> it makes a better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just
> call 'em as you see 'em.
I'm surprised no-one has come up with Purple Rain for TLC yet.
Richard
in...@fdhoekstra.nl
>
> I'll just get my Valquetta-i-Olvar...[1]
>
> [1] 20 fake ppoints for the reference; this is HARD
Powerful talk of plants?!?! Yblgh... I don't think that's canon,
is it?
Richard
Alex Page
Lees) wrote:
>Oh, gods. Spontaneous bad filking (mostly from memory, too). This is Not
>Good...
Actually, it put a smile on my face... nice one!
Alex
Arwen Lune
David Chapman wrote:
>Who can come up with the track with the strongest link to each of the
>Discworld books? Lyrics, style, artist, title (for preference, it makes a
>better pune) - it doesn't matter what the link is, just call 'em as you see
>'em.
I only had these 3 right now, I don't known if they are already brought up.
>Eric: Bat Out Of Hell - Meat Loaf
How about 'Sympathy for the Devil' by the Rolling Stones ?
>TLC: Down Under - Men At Work
I completely agree with the suggestion of Bon Jovi's 'Dry Country'
Rincewind
'Run to you' by Bryan Adams...only then in my version 'Run *from* You'
uh oh....I feel a filk coming up... take cover everyone!
Arwen Lune, a paradox, apparently…
--
Arwen Lune: Lady in Blue, in-betweenie, clueful blonde, starter of the
infamous cat-thread, NGF-sister of M’lady Aeowyn, founder of the
WWACCDE99-club and part of a secret, evil masterplan with Finvarra, Sidhe,
Key-Bearer and the 2Faced Elf. On #afp known [or not known] as A-lune.
James Green
following nonsense with us....
>I'm surprised no-one has come up with Purple Rain for TLC yet.
OK....
How about Purple Rain for TLC?
James Green
being a silly bugger, and wondering why there were two tags in the
subject field, even if they are identical.
[I've deactivated one]
Raphael Kirschke
>On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:27:47 GMT, grim...@twisted.gothicdreams.net (Alex
>Page) expounded:
>
>>I'm compiling a list of these suggestions, and will do so until the
>>end of the week; I'll HTMLise them and put them up on my web page
>>soon.
>>
>>And now for my suggestions:
>
>Ooh, let's have a go... I'm working my way through Biograph, [2] so I'll
>make these all Dylan suggestions [3] - yes, I'm obsesse(d|ive). Feel free to
>substitute cover versions of any\all... some are better. <g>
<snip>
>>Soul Music
>
>Eternal Circle [4]
Wouldn't that be more adequate for Pyramids?
Shim
expounded:
>On Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:40:24 GMT, 'twas was Shim who wrote:
>>Ooh, let's have a go... I'm working my way through Biograph, [2] so I'll
>>make these all Dylan suggestions [3] - yes, I'm obsesse(d|ive). Feel free to
>>substitute cover versions of any\all... some are better. <g>
>>>Soul Music
>>
>>Eternal Circle [4]
>
>Wouldn't that be more adequate for Pyramids?
Titularly, yeah. But lyrically:
[flicks through archives]
"I sang the song slowly, as she stood in the shadows
She stepped to the light as my silver strings spun
She called with her eyes to the tune I's a-playin'
(...)
As the tune finally folded I laid down the guitar
Then looked for the girl who'd stayed for so long
But her shadow was missin', for all of my searchin'
So I picked up my guitar and began the next song."
If that isn't Buddy & Susan at Scrote, I don't know what is. Performer sees
entranced girl, is watching her whilst ploughing through the song, looks up
at the end - and she's gone. What she was doing is is left hanging...
-Shim.
Meg Thornton
wrote:
>>TLC: Down Under - Men At Work
>I completely agree with the suggestion of Bon Jovi's 'Dry Country'
Actually, my suggestion for this one would be "Great Southern Land" by
Icehouse. Much more true to the nature of the book.
>
>Rincewind
>'Run to you' by Bryan Adams...only then in my version 'Run *from* You'
>uh oh....I feel a filk coming up... take cover everyone!
"Run" - Bill Oddie.
--
Meg Thornton (mag...@megabitch.tm)
Abusive email received *will* be forwarded to abuse@(yourISP).
Thomas Sarp
Meg Thornton <mag...@megabitch.tm> wrote:
> >Rincewind
> >'Run to you' by Bryan Adams...only then in my version 'Run *from* You'
> >uh oh....I feel a filk coming up... take cover everyone!
>
> "Run" - Bill Oddie.
>
How about "Run to the hills" - Gary Moore
--
Thomas Sarp
snab...@hotbot.com
"Doodles, your hair is getting thin."
"Well, who wants fat hair?"
Colin Rosenthal
Thomas Sarp <snab...@hotbot.com> wrote:
>
>Meg Thornton <mag...@megabitch.tm> wrote:
>
>> >Rincewind
>> >'Run to you' by Bryan Adams...only then in my version 'Run *from* You'
>> >uh oh....I feel a filk coming up... take cover everyone!
>>
>> "Run" - Bill Oddie.
>>
>
>How about "Run to the hills" - Gary Moore
Iron Maiden, maybe?
--
Colin Rosenthal
Astrophysics Institute
University of Oslo
David Chapman
news:7q39sl$mat$2...@readme.uio.no...
> >How about "Run to the hills" - Gary Moore
>
> Iron Maiden, maybe?
He's getting confused with "Out in the Fields", the Gary Moore (with Phil
Lynott) song that blatantly ripped the Irons off.
--
Considering your upbringing,
I'm surprised you don't just drool
all day and play the banjo...
G.Higgins
> The problem is not the Posting of the Filk - it is
(crumbs! ...etc...!)
Yep, I'd been taking all of this in, and the immediate and voluble
response is exactly what one expects of afp. I also know how it feels to
absent-mindedly open a cupboard instead of a door, and have a pile of
barbed posts fall on you. It's not a nice sensation, and it can take
ages to pick up the pieces again.
> The one good point is that Kyle, having sobered up, has recognised that
> offence was caused and has apologised.
And that was I guess what I was acknowledging, since there was no doubt
about the unanimity of the censure. There was a definite sense in my
response of 'There but for the [intervention] of [metaphor of
choice]/random workings of a chaotic universe] go I'.
The, erm, shortcomings of the original, uh, text, were so much plainer
than its virtues (was it Leo who rather unnervingly found two in his
autopsy?) that *my* eye slipped over it and the brain-mandibles picked
up no sense.
Your image is good; it was like driving past a mooning drunk on a
Saturday night - in *general* a bit of an insult, and clearly not
acceptable, but in a really not very admirable part of your own heart,
you drive on thinking: You may be grinning now... but you're going to
wake up to a Sunday hangover and *remember* this...
So I thought:People who give in to schadenfreude shouldn't post groans.
Jesper
<sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Colin Rosenthal <col...@toliman.uio.no> wrote in message
>news:7q39sl$mat$2...@readme.uio.no...
>
>> >How about "Run to the hills" - Gary Moore
>>
>> Iron Maiden, maybe?
>
>He's getting confused with "Out in the Fields", the Gary Moore (with Phil
>Lynott) song that blatantly ripped the Irons off.
That's one of Thin Lizzy's. :-)
Jesper
Thomas Sarp
David Chapman <sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Colin Rosenthal <col...@toliman.uio.no> wrote in message
> news:7q39sl$mat$2...@readme.uio.no...
>
> > >How about "Run to the hills" - Gary Moore
> >
> > Iron Maiden, maybe?
>
> He's getting confused with "Out in the Fields", the Gary Moore (with Phil
> Lynott) song that blatantly ripped the Irons off.
>
It's the memo-thingy.
Julia Jones
<g...@pokkettz.xxcom> writes
>
>The Posting of the Filk is clearly a matter of more significance here
>than we the uninitiated fully understand (I'm responding to Kyle here).
>I hesitated to include that fillet o' filk in my original post because
>it wasn't, you know *prime* - and then I left it in because it's
>beholden on the fringe-subscriber to demonstrate goodwill, and when
>better than when they round on you and snip your filk?
>As Leo pointed out, how much more dispiriting to bung off the bon mots
>and hear nothing but birdsong clear to the next county?
>
the original song with a couple of words changed in order to make an
unpleasant reference to the sexuality of the original singer. Kyle
spotted the bit on courtesy, but appears to have skipped the bit in one
of the FAQs about remembering that afp is a broad church, and that a
good many of the membership subscribe to a viewpoint which I would
phrase as "what freely consenting adults do in private is their own
problem". That little piece of nastiness
a) did not qualify as a filk on technical grounds (scansion, etc.)
b) was a rather unpleasant display of "Let's all snigger at the queer".
Courtesy extends both ways. To post something like that to a group which
contains a fair number of gays and bisexuals, at last count four TV/TS
people, and assorted other people who will mention if relevant to a
thread that their sexual practices extend beyond the missionary
position, and then complain about lack of courtesy in the replies,
smacks to me of hypocrisy. The thing doesn't even have the saving grace
of being either a decent filk or funny.
The one good point is that Kyle, having sobered up, has recognised that
offence was caused and has apologised.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
Richard Bryant
ja...@green7327.freeserve.co.uk says...
> in...@fdhoekstra.nl was a kind-hearted soul and hence decided to share the
> following nonsense with us....
>
> >I'm surprised no-one has come up with Purple Rain for TLC yet.
>
> OK....
> How about Purple Rain for TLC?
>
> James Green
> being a silly bugger, and wondering why there were two tags in the
> subject field, even if they are identical.
> [I've deactivated one]
>
[FLAME ON]
Those who wish to remember this short period of me being nice to people
or who would prefer to avoid insults and general flamage, stop reading
right now.
Okay, Mr Green. You're just about bearable on IRC, but i'm sick of
reading cack from you on alt.fan.pratchett. You make a habit of
defending the indefensible. You advocate the posting of single line
tests to discussion newsgroups. You post deliberately annoying OLFs
(such as the one i'm responding to) and this is not an isolated incident,
it happens *all*the*time*. Furthermore, you had the utter gall to post a
protest about Leo's minor flame on Kyle's frankly revolting excuse for a
filk on the grounds that we all have to start somewhere.
Bollocks. Maybe we *do* all have to start somewhere but when we do, we
should try to be a little more careful about the filks we post and the
subject matter thereof. Now personally, i'm not easy to offend. If
you'd defended a *funny* homophobic filk i might well have been up there
with you against anyone who criticized it on the grounds that funny is
funny and offensive material can also be classed as thought provoking.
That's as may be but dross can't, not that i for a second believe this is
why you actually chose to defend Kyle.
You post as if you were attempting to follow up to every thread on afp -
id est, without thought or restraint but with massive frequency.
You have pedanted at Leo, at me, at Womble, at Gillian, at Eelco,
at Kimberley, even at Gideon who has a million times more patience than
pretty much anyone else i know but you drove even him to the point of
giving up.
I believe this is a form of self-aggrandisement. You get off on trying
to be more knowledgeable, more understanding and more "right" than people
who have been here (off and on in some cases, true) for *years*.
In IRC, you're ok but on afp you come across as the worst kind of
annoying little shit. Not only that, but your posts are self-
contradictory, irritating to read and usually have all the content of an
empty shopping bag or J. Danforth Quayle's head.
Welcome to my killfile. You can come out when you're old enough to have
to struggle to remember what the first drink you legally bought at a
public bar was.
*plonk*
--
RB
mist
>Aargh: yes a reply on my own post, but I just noticed that the whitelines
>for some reason didn't came through.
>sorrysorrysorry
>
>Here it is again: probably a lot better to read.
>__________
>"The ClareCraft of '99"
>When I first heard 'bout it – 't was yet to late to get in line
*snip filk*
Well, you might want to try that one again, still didn't quite turn out
right on this box. I liked the filk, but I think it probably got lost
amongst this mammoth "quiz a la general flamage" type thread. (78 posts
as of now when I finally got around to reading it.)
--
Mist.
Miq
<snip uncalled-for flamage>
>*plonk*
Question: is it good netiquette to flame and plonk in the same post? It
seems to smack rather of having your parting shot and then claiming
immunity from retaliation, i.e. cowardice.
Not that I think James would retaliate in kind - I don't think he's got
that nasty streak in him. But he should have the option.
--
Miq
Cyclops
news:MPG.12327d90e...@news.ukonline.co.uk...
<Snip>
> [FLAME ON]
>
> Those who wish to remember this short period of me being nice
to people
> or who would prefer to avoid insults and general flamage, stop
reading
> right now.
>
The problem with your complaint about other people with differing
views to your own is that you end up looking to everybody else
the same as the person you are flaming does to you, "and this is
not an isolated incident, it happens *all*the*time*."
Yes James was wrong to defend using afp as a test group and yes
his defence of Kyle was either very wrong (if he thought Kyle's
filk was funny) or extremely badly worded if all he was trying to
do was suggest we should give the guy one chance. However, the
OLF you are complaining about here was set up by Richard and
James's reply was the usual one to that sort of lead line.
e.g. Goon Show (people trying to decide who should lead a
mountaineering expedition)
SM: Can I suggest Hillary?
PS: OK. Suggest him then.
SM: How about Hillary?
Personally, I think you were wrong to flame James here.
--
Cyclops
My e-mail address is NOT spam trapped (any more)
AFP Code v1.1a AGo-UK d s-: a U+ R F++ !h P++ OS--:C+++ M--
pp! L c- B(+) Cn-:- PT++++ Pu66 5-- X MT- eV r% y? end
Andy Fawcett
>
> On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Richard Bryant <d...@wibble.org> wrote
>
> <snip uncalled-for flamage>
Sorry, don't agree there. Much as I think James has improved, he still
has some things completely and utterly wrong. Richard merely pointed
that out.
> >*plonk*
> Question: is it good netiquette to flame and plonk in the same post?
> It seems to smack rather of having your parting shot and then claiming
> immunity from retaliation, i.e. cowardice.
Our Dog a coward? I think not...
FWIW, I don't see why anyone should have to listen to a response.
Richard has formed an opinion of James, and has decided he does not want
to read any more of his posts. This is his right. Out of courtesy, he
has told James the reasons why, and also provided 'clue' for others in
the process.
> Not that I think James would retaliate in kind - I don't think he's
> got that nasty streak in him. But he should have the option.
Why?
I'm all for freedom of speech, but I'm all for the right for people to
read what they want, and not stuff they don't want.
Besides, he can retaliate all he wants, surely it's Richard's choice
whether he reads it or not.
Just my two pfennigs worth...
--
Andy Fawcett
At Home...
David Chapman
news:MPG.12327d90e...@news.ukonline.co.uk...
> Okay, Mr Green. You're just about bearable on IRC, but i'm sick of
> reading cack from you on alt.fan.pratchett. You make a habit of
> defending the indefensible. You advocate the posting of single line
> tests to discussion newsgroups. You post deliberately annoying OLFs
> (such as the one i'm responding to) and this is not an isolated incident,
> it happens *all*the*time*. Furthermore, you had the utter gall to post a
> protest about Leo's minor flame on Kyle's frankly revolting excuse for a
> filk on the grounds that we all have to start somewhere.
>
> [...] If
> you'd defended a *funny* homophobic filk i might well have been up there
> with you against anyone who criticized it on the grounds that funny is
> funny and offensive material can also be classed as thought provoking.
> That's as may be but dross can't, not that i for a second believe this is
> why you actually chose to defend Kyle.
>
> You post as if you were attempting to follow up to every thread on afp -
> id est, without thought or restraint but with massive frequency.
>
> You have pedanted at Leo, at [pretty much everyone else worth pedanting].
> I believe this is a form of self-aggrandisement. You get off on trying
> to be more knowledgeable, more understanding and more "right" than people
> who have been here (off and on in some cases, true) for *years*.
>
> In IRC, you're ok but on afp you come across as the worst kind of
> annoying little shit. Not only that, but your posts are self-
> contradictory, irritating to read and usually have all the content of an
> empty shopping bag or J. Danforth Quayle's head.
>
> Welcome to my killfile. You can come out when you're old enough to have
> to struggle to remember what the first drink you legally bought at a
> public bar was.
Well done, Richard. You've just correctly identified the source of many of
James's problems - specifically, the fact that he's 16 years old. Do you
remember being 16, Richard?
I do. You start thinking things like "I'm old enough to have sex, doesn't
that mean I should be treated like an adult?" without considering that you
*aren't* really an adult yet. So you set out to earn respect from your
elders in order to bolster your sensitive ego.
How do you go about this on a purely intellectual medium like Usenet?
Answer: you try and demonstrate knowledge and intellectualism belying your
years - hence the "trying to be more knowledgeable, more understanding [...]
than people who have been here for years" bit.
This also applies to the Devil's Advocate role that James adopts from time
to time. Case in point - his defending of Kyle's homophobic filk. Or
rather, since you seem to have missed the point, his defending Kyle's right
as a beginner to f**k up *once* at least without being dropped on from a
great height by irate afpers. Since I don't see you flaming every newbie
who makes a slip, I assume you don't have a problem with giving people a
break on the basis of inexperience - so why are you flaming James for
pointing out that we *should* give newbies a break?
Now, James's problem is that he really doesn't have the necessary maturity
to behave in an exclusively adult fashion. Very few people do; it's nothing
to do with intellectual capacity, but the loss of the naivete that most of
us carry until we're 18 or so. He therefore irritates people (like
yourself) with a coating of mock intellectualism that can be seen right
through.
Which brings me nicely round to *you*, Richard, since we're talking about
mock intellectualism. IMHO, anyone who expands i.e. or e.g. in casual
conversation is a mock intellectual. This goes double for someone using it
almost in the same breath as "annoying little shit". And you have the
temerity to talk about someone else putting on airs.
You talk about the means by which James practices self-aggrandisement, but
your own post displays all those methods in greater abundance than he has
ever shown on this newsgroup. You talk about how his posts are deliberately
irritating, using as example what was obviously a joke (albeit a very poor
one), and in the process are far more irritating yourself. You've talked
about his irritating behaviour, too, and called him on things that you would
have let go had other people done it. Had Gid or Orin defended Kyle's filk
or posted that OLF which hassled you so, would you have flamed and killfiled
them? I think not.
You may want to indulge in a little self-examination before you killfile
someone, Richard. "Hypocrite" is such a *nasty* label to acquire, after
all.
co. & Ponder Stibbons
wrote:
>In article <MPG.122dac5c2...@news.lspace.org>,
>ja...@green7327.freeserve.co.uk says...
>> in...@fdhoekstra.nl was a kind-hearted soul and hence decided to share the
>> following nonsense with us....
>>
>> >I'm surprised no-one has come up with Purple Rain for TLC yet.
>>
>> OK....
>> How about Purple Rain for TLC?
>>
>> James Green
>> being a silly bugger, and wondering why there were two tags in the
>> subject field, even if they are identical.
>> [I've deactivated one]
>>
>Okay, that does it. And about bloody time too.
>
>[FLAME ON]
>
>Those who wish to remember this short period of me being nice to people
>or who would prefer to avoid insults and general flamage, stop reading
>right now.
I almost wish I had, but the line "this short period of me being nice
to people" made me give a wry laugh and I had to read on ...
>Okay, Mr Green. You're just about bearable on IRC, but i'm sick of
>reading cack from you on alt.fan.pratchett.
Personally, I know whose "cack" I prefer to read.
> You make a habit of
>defending the indefensible. You advocate the posting of single line
>tests to discussion newsgroups.
No. He didn't. This has been covered elsewhere.
> You post deliberately annoying OLFs
>(such as the one i'm responding to) and this is not an isolated incident,
>it happens *all*the*time*.
Yes. Lots of people do it. Sometimes it's witty and amusing.
>Furthermore, you had the utter gall to post a
>protest about Leo's minor flame on Kyle's frankly revolting excuse for a
>filk on the grounds that we all have to start somewhere.
Again, you choose to misunderstand what James was actaully saying.
This also has been covered elsewhere.
>Bollocks. Maybe we *do* all have to start somewhere but when we do, we
>should try to be a little more careful about the filks we post and the
>subject matter thereof.
This, at least I agree with.
> Now personally, i'm not easy to offend. If
>you'd defended a *funny* homophobic filk i might well have been up there
>with you against anyone who criticized it on the grounds that funny is
>funny and offensive material can also be classed as thought provoking.
I believe Bernard Manning also uses this excuse.
>That's as may be but dross can't, not that i for a second believe this is
>why you actually chose to defend Kyle.
Read the posts which discussed this.
>You post as if you were attempting to follow up to every thread on afp -
>id est, without thought or restraint but with massive frequency.
To quote you - "Bollocks". James does post frequently, and usually
with considerable thought, IMO. When he does *not* always think
carefully enough, I have always noted his ability to admit it and to
reconsider. Can you say the same?
>You have pedanted at Leo, at me, at Womble, at Gillian, at Eelco,
>at Kimberley, even at Gideon who has a million times more patience than
>pretty much anyone else i know but you drove even him to the point of
>giving up.
Oh my goodness! What crimes! To *dare* to pedant 'The Great and The
Good'!
>I believe this is a form of self-aggrandisement. You get off on trying
>to be more knowledgeable, more understanding and more "right" than people
>who have been here (off and on in some cases, true) for *years*.
Actually, sometimes new / young people really *are* more knowledgeable
etc. than Old Farts. Just hanging around afp "for years" (off and on)
doesn't automatically make you "more right". Who's *really* into
self-aggrandisement here?
>In IRC, you're ok but on afp you come across as the worst kind of
>annoying little shit.
Not in *my* opinion. I would give *you* that dubious honour. But of
course, we *are* just talking about personal opinions here, aren't we.
>Not only that, but your posts are self-
>contradictory, irritating to read and usually have all the content of an
>empty shopping bag or J. Danforth Quayle's head.
Again, not in *my* opinion. Why don't you start your remarks with, "I
think ..." or "In my opinion ..." rather than setting yourself up as
*the* judge of what's worthy on afp?
>Welcome to my killfile. You can come out when you're old enough to have
>to struggle to remember what the first drink you legally bought at a
>public bar was.
What a criterion for maturity! Why aren't I surprised?
>*plonk*
Personally, I don't *plonk*, but I do chose which people's posts to
read and which to skip. I shall therefore continue to read James'
posts and watch his development on afp with interest. Yours, however,
I shall skip in future. Unfortunately, you seem to me to be one of
those people who never *will* develop, because you think you are so
mature and clever that you have no developing to do! How sad!
Goodbye, Dog.
Elaine.
sig. snipped, because it seems to irritate Dog, and he will have
enough reason to snap at me now, anyway. I'm *so* scared!
But then, I won't be reading his post, will I?
David Chapman
news:37C90CB3...@lspace.org...
> Miq wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Richard Bryant <d...@wibble.org> wrote
> >
> > <snip uncalled-for flamage>
>
> Sorry, don't agree there. Much as I think James has improved, he still
> has some things completely and utterly wrong. Richard merely pointed
> that out.
> FWIW, I don't see why anyone should have to listen to a response.
> Richard has formed an opinion of James, and has decided he does not want
> to read any more of his posts. This is his right. Out of courtesy, he
> has told James the reasons why, and also provided 'clue' for others in
> the process.
Amen to that, Andy. James has posted some utter crap here in the past. But
I don't think he's ever done it unkindly, and I *certainly* don't think it
warranted the kind of treatment Richard has given him for it (especially
when you consider that Richard did it because James doesn't believe in
letting feed lines go hungry).
> I'm all for freedom of speech, but I'm all for the right for people to
> read what they want, and not stuff they don't want.
>
AOL again. However, does that give anybody the right to flame another
person in public because they didn't like a joke that person made? If
Richard wanted to killfile James he should have done it privately, or at
worst just replied with a *plonk* OLF. He didn't have to flame, nor did he
have to drag what James has done on IRC in as well. That's just *asking*
for a flame war.
> Besides, he can retaliate all he wants, surely it's Richard's choice
> whether he reads it or not.
The point here is not that James should have the opportunity to retaliate -
he shouldn't be retaliating, for one thing, because he *is* partially in the
wrong. The point is that Richard has denied James any chance to justify
himself to Richard, and is refusing to listen to any defence that James can
make.
I couldn't give a toss about whether flaming someone and *plonking* them in
the same post is good etiquette, but I'd certainly say that not warning
someone that they're risking a *plonk* before doing it is unreasonable
except in the very worst cases.
Of course, if Richard *has* warned James before and I just missed it I'll
retract the greater majority of the things I've said about him elsewhere on
this thread, but I don't think he has.
Peace!
Dave Chapman
Jennie Lees
minds^Wsouls^Wbodies, afp...
<snip - I just want to pick up on one point here>
> Well done, Richard. You've just correctly identified the source of many of
> James's problems - specifically, the fact that he's 16 years old. Do you
> remember being 16, Richard?
David has a point here, and it's a good one. Being a teenager
certainly isn't easy, let alone being an afpteen. But there *are* other
afpers of the same age range - some younger, too - who act very
differently, and whose ages come as a shock in RL...
Jennie
--
Allegedly written by Jennie Lees +++ afpiancée to Jonathan and Mary
and Gareth's afparamour +++ my e-mail address: jl...@ukonline.co.uk
ICQ - 22707531 + IRC - AFPumpkin + http://web.ukonline.co.uk/jlees/
C. Cooke
<Mi...@kew1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Richard Bryant <d...@wibble.org> wrote
>
>seems to smack rather of having your parting shot and then claiming
>immunity from retaliation, i.e. cowardice.
>
>that nasty streak in him. But he should have the option.
It is perfectly good as far as I'm concerned - should james wish to make a
reply, he can do so via e-mail... as he should anyway. Any sort of nasty
response to a flame should be kept off the group because it is of no
interest to the rest of us.
--
Charles Cooke, Official Giant
Say it with flowers, send a triffid
Victoria Martin
On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, David Chapman wrote:
> mock intellectualism. IMHO, anyone who expands i.e. or e.g. in casual
> conversation is a mock intellectual.
I use ie. and eg. a *lot* when I'm writing to ngs but I don't think this
makes me a mock intellectual. In fact, I'd stand up for the right of
anyone anywhere to use ie. and eg. and still to be able to claim genuine
intellectual status.
> This goes double for someone using it
> almost in the same breath as "annoying little shit".
No, no, that's an effective rhetorical device based on contrast.
> And you have the
> temerity to talk about someone else putting on airs.
>
[snip]
Y'know, I thought the defence-of-James half was really rather good and I
I'd just got all worked up into a spirit of tolerance towards 16 year
olds, when the second half came along and undid all the good work. It's
terribly hard to produce a post that claims to occupy the moral high
greound whilst simultaneously slagging someone else off, and I've noticed
that all our moral giants (mentioning no names, naturally) seem to have
figured this out and stop before they get to the slagging off half.
Victoria
David Chapman
news:37c99738...@milde.ndh.net...
> On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:40:58 +0100, David Chapman wrote:
> So on reading your post, it's basically that you say Richard's right,
> but he shouldn't tell anyone?
>
No, I said that Richard's right, but given the *reasons* for him being
right, there are much better ways for him to tell everyone.
> Come on, do you really mean what you're saying there?
>
I really mean what *I'm* saying there, but I don't really mean what *you're*
saying I'm saying there.
> And, *young age* is not an excuse for everything. It's ideal an
> explanation for lack of knowledge, but for everything else? No.
> If we were inclined to accept the argument of age making it (nearly)
> impossible for any young person to act sensible, mature, responsible,
> etc. we should ask first for the age of a person and killfile everyone
> who is not at least 18/21/25/32/whatever, since they are *bound to be*
> stupid gits.
> But no, that's bloody well not the case. That argument is an offense for
> every adolescent who acts decently - and they do exist.
>
I didn't imply that it was a universal problem, though. It's certainly a
very common problem among teenagers, especially teenage males, but it is by
no means a natural extension of being a teenager. And what I was saying was
not that it is impossible for an adolescent to be sensible or mature, but
that in their *trying* to appear mature they can often end up looking the
exact opposite.
Had you been oscillating on the same wavelength as me, you would have
understood that I wasn't stating that adolescents can only show adolescent
behaviour, but that it is their attempts *not* to show such behaviour that
can make them look foolish from time to time.
> Tsk
> Uwe
Tsk yourself
Dave C
David Chapman
news:Pine.OSF.3.95.99083...@ermine.ox.ac.uk...
>
>
> On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, David Chapman wrote:
>
> > mock intellectualism. IMHO, anyone who expands i.e. or e.g. in casual
> > conversation is a mock intellectual.
>
> I use ie. and eg. a *lot* when I'm writing to ngs but I don't think this
> makes me a mock intellectual. In fact, I'd stand up for the right of
> anyone anywhere to use ie. and eg. and still to be able to claim genuine
> intellectual status.
>
> > This goes double for someone using it
> > almost in the same breath as "annoying little shit".
>
> No, no, that's an effective rhetorical device based on contrast.
>
You misunderstand, Victoria; it isn't the use of e.g. and i.e. that I'm
objecting to, it's the expansion of the acronym (to "exemplia gratis" and
"id est" respectively) that I consider to be mock intellectualism,
especially when the rest of the content of the post includes a certain
amount of low-foreheaded crudity. It smacks of trying to impress people
with your wit in order to deflect the onus of the blatant trolling that
follows.
>It's
> terribly hard to produce a post that claims to occupy the moral high
> greound whilst simultaneously slagging someone else off, and I've noticed
> that all our moral giants (mentioning no names, naturally) seem to have
> figured this out and stop before they get to the slagging off half.
But I'm not claiming to be a bastion of morality, mostly because I'm not
one. I can be a vicious, thoughtlessly cruel SOB sometimes, and I know it.
And that's the *nice* way of describing me when I'm off the rails, too.
OTOH, you don't need to be a moral giant in order to be able to look down on
a moral dwarf, do you?
Warwick
David Chapman <sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7qeell$cft$1...@gxsn.com...
<snip victoria's nicely phrased stuff>
>OTOH, you don't need to be a moral giant in order to be able to look down
on
> a moral dwarf, do you?
You ain't been around here long have you?
Can you do me a favour and change your 'from' name to Margaret Tarbot just
for the sake of narrative consistency?
You f*cked up by slagging someone off when you should have been sticking to
defending... that's the same mistake politicians make and they usually end
up looking like gutter slime to me too. At least the dog is well known for
flaming
and doesn't gabble on about it.
At least be consistant, defend when you need to and flame where required.
Warwick
Miq
>
>David Chapman <sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:7qeell$cft$1...@gxsn.com...
><snip victoria's nicely phrased stuff>
>
>>OTOH, you don't need to be a moral giant in order to be able to look down
>on
>> a moral dwarf, do you?
>
>You ain't been around here long have you?
Long enough.
Meg, if you're reading: whatever happened to the Vampire Threads FAQ?
That's where this one is going, fast...
>Can you do me a favour and change your 'from' name to Margaret Tarbot just
>for the sake of narrative consistency?
>
>You f*cked up by slagging someone off when you should have been sticking to
>defending... that's the same mistake politicians make and they usually end
>up looking like gutter slime to me too.
He spoke his mind. If you think that makes him look like gutter slime,
that's your judgement to make, but don't go assuming that's how everyone
sees it.
>At least the dog is well known for
>flaming
>and doesn't gabble on about it.
He may be well known to you, mate. David is better known to *me* for
shooting his mouth off. Though I don't see how this is meant to be a
redeeming feature.
--
Miq
Ailbhe Leamy
<sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Andy Fawcett <t...@lspace.org> wrote in message
>news:37C90CB3...@lspace.org...
>> Miq wrote:
>> > On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Richard Bryant <d...@wibble.org> wrote
>> > <snip uncalled-for flamage>
[Tap]
>> Sorry, don't agree there. Much as I think James has improved, he still
>> has some things completely and utterly wrong. Richard merely pointed
>> that out.
>
>> FWIW, I don't see why anyone should have to listen to a response.
>> Richard has formed an opinion of James, and has decided he does not want
>> to read any more of his posts. This is his right. Out of courtesy, he
>> has told James the reasons why, and also provided 'clue' for others in
>> the process.
[David Chapman]
>Amen to that, Andy. James has posted some utter crap here in the past. But
>I don't think he's ever done it unkindly, and I *certainly* don't think it
>warranted the kind of treatment Richard has given him for it (especially
>when you consider that Richard did it because James doesn't believe in
>letting feed lines go hungry).
[Ailbhe]
OK, is everyone paying attention? I am about to agree with David
Chapman, a man whose posts I avoid like a very avoiding thing, whose
threads I decided long ago not to read, whose name maketh me to feel
very nervous and wonder where the next seriously upsetting argument is
going to come from.
I think that James is a teenage boy. Now, it's not a species I like,
but apparently there is very little that can be done - we are not
allowed to kill them, mince them, or keep them in a barrel until they
reach maturity (which is just as well or some of them would still be
in there - possibly including our very own Dog, and almost certainly
including many many male "adult" afpers of whom we are all very fond).
As a teenage boy, he has behaved himself quite well. He posts no more
drivel than many adult female afpers, less incendiary stuff than
either Mr Chapman or the Dog, and is never deliberately nasty to
people - or if he is, I've missed it.
>> I'm all for freedom of speech, but I'm all for the right for people to
>> read what they want, and not stuff they don't want.
>
>AOL again. However, does that give anybody the right to flame another
>person in public because they didn't like a joke that person made? If
>Richard wanted to killfile James he should have done it privately, or at
>worst just replied with a *plonk* OLF. He didn't have to flame, nor did he
>have to drag what James has done on IRC in as well. That's just *asking*
>for a flame war.
I don't think Richard was right in his public flamage...
>> Besides, he can retaliate all he wants, surely it's Richard's choice
>> whether he reads it or not.
>
>The point here is not that James should have the opportunity to retaliate -
>he shouldn't be retaliating, for one thing, because he *is* partially in the
>wrong. The point is that Richard has denied James any chance to justify
>himself to Richard, and is refusing to listen to any defence that James can
>make.
Uhuh.
>I couldn't give a toss about whether flaming someone and *plonking* them in
>the same post is good etiquette, but I'd certainly say that not warning
>someone that they're risking a *plonk* before doing it is unreasonable
>except in the very worst cases.
It is not for us to say whether James was adequately warned or not.
>Of course, if Richard *has* warned James before and I just missed it I'll
>retract the greater majority of the things I've said about him elsewhere on
>this thread, but I don't think he has.
I'm assuming he hasn't, going mainly on my personal acquaintance with
Richard. But I have no proof and couldn't really say.
>Peace!
That too.
I may start reading Mr Chapman's posts again, you never know...
Ailbhe
xxx
Meg Thornton
Lees) wrote:
>David Chapman appears to have posted to that gathering of
>minds^Wsouls^Wbodies, afp...
><snip - I just want to pick up on one point here>
>> Well done, Richard. You've just correctly identified the source of many of
>> James's problems - specifically, the fact that he's 16 years old. Do you
>> remember being 16, Richard?
>
>David has a point here, and it's a good one. Being a teenager
>certainly isn't easy, let alone being an afpteen. But there *are* other
>afpers of the same age range - some younger, too - who act very
>differently, and whose ages come as a shock in RL...
>
Quite frankly, I'd put it this way:
"If you choose to post to afp, you've chosen to partake in a gathering
in which your race, colour, religious creed, sex and age are
irrelevant. The only thing which *is* relevant is whether you can
post intelligently and intelligibly. Any of the above factors is an
explanation for not posting intelligently or intelligibly, but not an
excuse".
Note the last sentence there: It's an *explanation*, in that it
explains *why* you're doing it. It's not an *excuse*, so you can't
get away with doing it again.
Gideon Hallett
<7qbkt8$2p6$2...@gxsn.com>:
>Richard Bryant <d...@wibble.org> wrote in message
>news:MPG.12327d90e...@news.ukonline.co.uk...
>
>
>Well done, Richard. You've just correctly identified the source of
>many of James's problems - specifically, the fact that he's 16 years
>old. Do you remember being 16, Richard?
I do. I was nervous, insecure and childish. No surprises there. I was also
not equipped to deal with the "adult" world; and since I was dealing with
people IRL, everyone around me could see that I was still a kid.
>How do you go about this on a purely intellectual medium like Usenet?
>Answer: you try and demonstrate knowledge and intellectualism belying
>your years - hence the "trying to be more knowledgeable, more
>understanding [...] than people who have been here for years" bit.
Which is the wrong bloody way to go about it. Most of us here on afp have
a degree or a Master's in one or more subjects; at least, most of the Old
Farts do; I'm *not* saying that makes them Better People; but there are
some *very* informed heads here; in addition to which, some of the non
degree-wielding Old Farts possess scary amounts of knowledge.
I am *not* suggesting this makes them better people in any way; but it
does mean that some people here could geek for their country. As such, the
best behaviour for a young newbie is to watch and learn and only try
geeking if they're damn sure they can contribute some signal. It's what
differentiates posts worth reading from AOLs[1].
Appropriate grasshopper behaviour is to watch, be humble and learn; and in
many senses I am as much a grasshopper as anyone here. While it's
understandable that a young one will want to try out his wings, he should
learn that flying is not something achieved without the occasional light
crash.
You do not, on your first day of learning the martial arts, march up to
the sensei and challenge him; you will be flattened. Neither do you start
commentating knowledgeably on a subject without some study; you may
venture an opinion; but it is ...inappropriate to start correcting the
Emperor's spelling unless you are indestructible.
>
>This also applies to the Devil's Advocate role that James adopts from
>time to time. Case in point - his defending of Kyle's homophobic filk.
There's a difference; advocates are qualified.
Again, let me make it quite clear; I am *not* suggesting that the Old
Farts are necessarily any more "right" than anyone else; but respect is
earned on this froup; and I respect the opinions both of old farts like
the Dog and Leo as much as I respect the opinions of newer bugs like
Ailbhe and Melusine; for they have earned respect in my eyes.
All of us judge this way; and AFP is the collected result. It's a case of
clue generating respect; people who can be relied upon to provide a
signal, rather than reams of noise.
>Which brings me nicely round to *you*, Richard, since we're talking
>about mock intellectualism. IMHO, anyone who expands i.e. or e.g. in
>casual conversation is a mock intellectual. This goes double for
>someone using it almost in the same breath as "annoying little shit".
>And you have the temerity to talk about someone else putting on airs.
I will pass over the irony of anyone making a huge generalisation and
prefacing it with "IMHO"...
I know Mr. Bryant very well in person; I can think of very few people more
inclined to call a spade a fucking spade; in fact, his lack of airs and
graces is the a major cause of his blunt reputation. That doesn't mean
he's stupid. Feckless, tactless, devil-may-care, maybe - but not stupid.
<snip>
>(albeit a very poor one), and in the process are far more irritating
>yourself. You've talked about his irritating behaviour, too, and
>called him on things that you would have let go had other people done
>it.
No. I disagree here as well. Rich has famously called a great number of
Old Farts some very uncomplimentary things indeed.
Were I to defend Kyle, he'd have a go at me; albeit in slightly milder
terms, since he knows me personally and has actually enjoyed some of my
posts in the past.
I trust him as someone who would call me a bloody idiot if I deserved it.
> Had Gid or Orin defended Kyle's filk or posted that OLF which
>hassled you so, would you have flamed and killfiled them? I think not.
That's Gid-eon. Remember that, please. If he meant Mr. Holyoake, he'd say
so.
>You may want to indulge in a little self-examination before you
>killfile someone, Richard. "Hypocrite" is such a *nasty* label to
>acquire, after all.
Please don't pansy around in this way, it gets right up my nose. If you
want to call him a hypocrite, then damn well do so; I will ignore anything
further you have to say, but I will at least respect your directness; but
this petty prancing around and saying "the world thinks you're a
hypocrite, la la la" is a) not something you are in a position to say and
b) somewhat petty.
I *am* a patient sort; and I dislike speaking harshly to people, no matter
what. As such, I'm damn glad that we still have some dragons around the
place, as I do Mr. Nice far better than I do Mr. Nasty.
I stay in AFP largely because there are people who will take it upon
themselves to clue people at times; who weed out the worst excesses of
guff and dribble with cutting remarks; the editors.
And many of these people are among my closest friends; AFP's last, best
hope against eternal candyfloss.
Gideon.
--
|===diog...@freeuk.com.(XNFP)===================== \\\\ waaa! |
| Given a little bit of thrust, most hedgehogs ___\\\\\\____o |
| fly just fine. Landing, however... --===***>>X___\\\\\\^c/ |
Meg Thornton
>On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Warwick <g...@mcnicholl.demon.co.uk> wrote
>>
>>David Chapman <sent...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:7qeell$cft$1...@gxsn.com...
>><snip victoria's nicely phrased stuff>
>>
>>>OTOH, you don't need to be a moral giant in order to be able to look down
>>on
>>> a moral dwarf, do you?
>>
>>You ain't been around here long have you?
>
>Long enough.
>
>Meg, if you're reading: whatever happened to the Vampire Threads FAQ?
>That's where this one is going, fast...
Esmi's decided to pick it up as part of the timeline. Talk to her
about it.
Oh, FWIW, I agree with dog on this one.
I come to afp for clueful conversation - which is something of a
rarity on Usenet these days. I *don't* come here for huggy-feely
stuff, assorted wibble and replies to just about everything which
convey an impression that the poster was posting with Mr Brain stuffed
firmly into neutral. If that's offensive to anyone, well tough!
I'll put it bluntly: I've seen a growing trend among some of the
people on afp at the moment to try and turn this froup into something
like the sort of cliquey, huggy-feely, fluff and nonsense place that
is alt.callahans, alt.cuddle, or alt.fluffy-bunny-wubs. They are
welcome to try this... but note that they are only welcome to *try*.
They should *not* expect to be allowed to succeed without any
resistance.
I enjoyed afp originally because it was one of the few places where
someone like dog could be as bad tempered and grumpy as they wanted,
and not have the "fluffy-bunny-wub" types jumping all over them in
sweetness and light. I enjoy it now because it's one of the few
havens for clue left on Usenet. I will quite literally fight to the
death to preserve that reputation - and if that means hurting the
feelings of the bunny-wub types, then *tough*.
That said, it's a sad indictment on afp as a whole that a
comparatively *mild* rant from dog is being treated as some kind of
hideous offence. Could some people kindly *grow up*, or I may be
tempted to invite a few of the *less* friendly types on Usenet in
here.
(not a threat - a promise).
Gideon Hallett
<37c956e0...@news.lspace.org>:
>On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:22:54 +0100, d...@wibble.org (Richard Bryant)
>wrote:
>
>>> James Green
>>> being a silly bugger, and wondering why there were two tags in the
>>> subject field, even if they are identical.
>>> [I've deactivated one]
>>>
>>Okay, that does it. And about bloody time too.
>>
>>[FLAME ON]
>>
<snip>
>>Okay, Mr Green. You're just about bearable on IRC, but i'm sick of
>>reading cack from you on alt.fan.pratchett.
>
>Personally, I know whose "cack" I prefer to read.
As do I.
<snip>
>
>>You have pedanted at Leo, at me, at Womble, at Gillian, at Eelco,
>>at Kimberley, even at Gideon who has a million times more patience
>>than pretty much anyone else i know but you drove even him to the
>>point of giving up.
>
>Oh my goodness! What crimes! To *dare* to pedant 'The Great and The
>Good'!
*ahem*; I take some mild offense to this remark; I've never been Great or
Good in my life and will dismember with a green Bic biro anyone who has
the temerity to disagree with me on this.
What I have done is hung around here long enough to know where the dodgy
floor tiles are and how to fix the iffy light switch on the first floor
landing.
This doesn't make me a saint or a god; it makes me a veteran; not
superior, but experienced; and I consider myself a newbie compared to Wise
Old Birds like Womble or Leo.
>Actually, sometimes new / young people really *are* more knowledgeable
>etc. than Old Farts. Just hanging around afp "for years" (off and on)
>doesn't automatically make you "more right". Who's *really* into
>self-aggrandisement here?
It doesn't make anyone "more right"; but it sure as hell gives you a
feeling for the group mind; and "right" is a matter of public perception
here; I would weigh Leo's opinion more valuable than James' simply because
I know Leo better through years of correspondance. It doesn't make it
"more right"; but we are dealing with a newsgroup, not a court of law;
"right" and "wrong" are more matters of public support than natural
justice here.
No, it ain't fair. It's just the way it works. No-one here reads posts
without imposing their own filters on what they read. I know that Leo and
Dog have damn good heads on their shoulders; thus I value their opinions;
even though they differ on many things.
>Personally, I don't *plonk*, but I do chose which people's posts to
>read and which to skip. I shall therefore continue to read James'
>posts and watch his development on afp with interest. Yours, however,
>I shall skip in future. Unfortunately, you seem to me to be one of
>those people who never *will* develop, because you think you are so
>mature and clever that you have no developing to do! How sad!
>sig. snipped, because it seems to irritate Dog, and he will have
>enough reason to snap at me now, anyway. I'm *so* scared!
>But then, I won't be reading his post, will I?
No; so why did you feel the need to say it?
You think Dog is immature; fine. You don't want to read his posts; fine.
It's your choice - but why be pointlessly antagonistic and try to irritate
him? Does this solve anything? Is it the considered act of a mature human
being?
Gideon.
(ho hum; it's that time of year again, isn't it...?)
Andy Brown
Except this time September's come a week or so early
--
Andy Brown
At work. All opinions are my own.
David Ferguson
Er, Hello. Hope I don't make too many mistakes.
My suggestions[1] (some of which have probably been done already, sorry)
MAA - Shoot to Kill: Motorhead
Small Gods - Lossing my Religion: REM
Feet of Clay - Stone Cold Crazy: Queen
Jingo - Back to the Front: Metallica
Moving Pictures - That's Entertainment: The Jam (or the Morrisey cover?)
Soul Music - Anyone can Play Guitar : Radiohead
Last Continent - Somewhere in Time: Iron Maiden or Rain: The Cult
Sourcery - Its a Kind of Magic: Queen
Mort - (Don't fear) the reaper: Blue Oyster Cult (has to be!)
Interesting Times - We're not Gonna Take It : Twisted Sister
Pyramids - Sandstorm: Cast
People and places and stuff:
Susan Death - Grandad: Clive Dunn
Vetinari - Master of Puppets: Metallica or This Charming Man: Smiths
The Watch - in The City: the Jam
Dibbler - I've Got a Little Something For Ya: some boy band??
Biers - Oddfellows Local:REM
Twoflower - the Tourist : Radiohead
Luggage - the Box: Orbital
Old Mother Dismass - Vision Thing: Sisters of Mercy
"Him that was head of the Omnina faith before Brutha"? - Killing in the Name
of : Rage Against the Machine.
OK, Time to lurk off and finish memorising the FAQs
+++++++++
My Mind is a finely tuned instrument. Possibly maracas.
[1] NB, the inclusion of any of these tracks in my listind does NOT
automatically mean they are also in my CD collection[2]
[2] Although most of them probably are.
doc
> we should ask first for the age of a person and killfile everyone
> who is not at least 18/21/25/32/whatever, since they are *bound to be*
Well, a very good idea and very true indeed - but there's a flaw in
that... i'd end up reading not-a-lot-of-posts-at-all, given the age of
most afpers.
*sigh*
Nevermind my coat, but if you could help me in my whellchair, please...
--
doc.
Tim Ebbs
Gideon Hallett wrote:
Having just read the reams of writings of various authors i have to beg
indulgence from the group once more.
Please please chill out !
i do not claim to be a hardened AFPer myself, in fact i am just beginning
after having done the suggested lurking for a fair amount of time. I do not
count myself as being nearly as knowledgeable as half of the people here and
as such i dont intend on getting involved in this "argument". Many valid
points have been made, but i hope that this thread may now be laid to rest by
the masses.
I one day hope to walk the heralded halls of the AFP with the respect that is
due to such AFP'ers such as Dog and Leo, but i hope that my mistakes will be
forgiven by the souls herein.I mean after all we are all here because we are
fans of the mighty P and as such...... lets get back the to reading!
Tim "Not a Cat" Ebbs
=========================================================
"There was a young man...... well at least i think there was, now what was his
name....... oh you know........*fade to gibbering*" My nan 1998
Gideon Hallett
<37CBE4FB...@mindless.com>:
<snip - I know what I wrote>
>Having just read the reams of writings of various authors i have to beg
>indulgence from the group once more.
>
>Please please chill out !
(A brief word of advice, Tim; trim surplus-to-requirements text as
mentioned in the FAQs).
I have jumped up rather hard in the last couple of posts on the subject;
rather too hard, given a re-evaluation and some wise words from a friend.
I still stand by what I said on the whole, but am sorry if I've caused
unwarranted offense. The Dog is entirely capable of looking after himself,
after all.
I still maintain the following; that afp needs bitter as well as sweet; we
need people who can inject a dose of vitriol into the proceedings now and
then, lest AFP become an endless string of circular huggy shit and self-
congratulation over pisspoor filks.
>
>i do not claim to be a hardened AFPer myself, in fact i am just
>beginning after having done the suggested lurking for a fair amount of
>time. I do not count myself as being nearly as knowledgeable as half of
>the people here and as such i dont intend on getting involved in this
>"argument". Many valid points have been made, but i hope that this
>thread may now be laid to rest by the masses.
Some cooling-off would be a damn good idea. I suggest someone comes up
with an entertaining and interesting thread pronto.
(If only it were that easy).
>
>I one day hope to walk the heralded halls of the AFP with the respect
>that is due to such AFP'ers such as Dog and Leo, but i hope that my
>mistakes will be forgiven by the souls herein.I mean after all we are
>all here because we are fans of the mighty P and as such...... lets get
>back the to reading!
Hmm. Dunno; I have some decided bodings if even the esteemed ppint is
finding the S-to-N a little on the low side; I can think of few more
accurate human canaries.
I've seen events take this sort of turn before; around January 1998. I'm
not going to make any predictions; we will see how the 'froup goes. Yet
certain destinations become inevitable from time to time...
richard.br...@ukonline.co.uk
>You misunderstand, Victoria; it isn't the use of e.g. and i.e. that
>I'm objecting to, it's the expansion of the acronym (to "exemplia
>gratis" and "id est" respectively) that I consider to be mock
>intellectualism, especially when the rest of the content of the post
>includes a certain amount of low-foreheaded crudity. It smacks of
>trying to impress people with your wit in order to deflect the onus
>of the blatant trolling that follows.
That's "exempli gratia" actually. It's a plural, not a singular.
I actually "id est" because i couldn't decide whether or not to type
"ie" with full stops or without, and eventually decided "oh bugger,
why abbreviate when it's less compilcated to write the whole thing?"
>OTOH, you don't need to be a moral giant in order to be able to look
>down on a moral dwarf, do you?
Call me that to my face one of these days. I dare you.
--
RB
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