(OT-ish) Seven Sins of Writing
RuneOfIormangand
this is against rules, please tell me. I am posting this here because
I have lurked as a fan for years, and I see that many people here know
a lot about fiction and its writers. I have an idea for a uni
assignment of demonstrating the Seven Sins using authors as examples.
This doesn't mean I believe all their work is bad, only that they have
occasional moments of weakness like all of us. I would like
suggestions for candidates.
The Positions are:
Pride: Laurell K Hamilton (for her current Mary-Sue-ish grip on her
characters)
Sloth: Cassie Edwards? (for being caught plagarising like a uni
student)
Greed: J K Rowling (not just for her wealth, but for her denial of
anyone else using her work, as in encyclopaedias and black-haired boys
with glasses. Not that she's entirely wrong, but monopolising short
sighted dark boys ...)
Lust: EMPTY (It would be cruel to put down LKH twice. I'm a bit too
bashful to look elsewhere ...)
Gluttony: EMPTY (someone with too much research?)
Envy: EMPTY (someone who tries to hard to emulate someone else?)
Wrath: EMPTY (overexcessive use of overexcessive gore? Or public
ranting?)
If there is a suggestion for an empty spot, or even one that is
filled, I would appreciate it. If you think this is wrong and cruel, I
can't stop you from flaming me.
Thanks
Orjan
wrote:
> I have an idea for a uni
> assignment of demonstrating the Seven Sins using authors as examples.
> This doesn't mean I believe all their work is bad, only that they have
> occasional moments of weakness like all of us. I would like
> suggestions for candidates.
Lust: Jean M. Auel
Gluttony: Neal Stephenson
Wrath: Clive Barker
Will you do the seven virtues, too?
Orjan
GaryN
4daf-8ce2-e...@y18g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
Not sure it's entirely fair but I would suggest:
Pride: Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. After classics like "The Mote in
Gods Eye", "Footfall" and "Lucifers Hammer" they produced
http://www.baen.com/library/067172052x/067172052x.htm
presumably on the basis that people would buy anything with their names on
the cover.
Sloth: Clive Cussler for writing the same book forever.
Greed: Michael Crichton for "The Lost World".
Gluttony: Got to be Tom Clancy.
Envy: Ken MacLeod who apparently wants to be Iain M. Banks.
Wrath: Richard Morgan for excessive violence, sex and social commentary in
everything he's written. Or, possibly, Joe R. Lansdale [1]..;-)
gary
[1]I actually like these two authors but they are to thrillers as
"Nightmare on Elm Street" is to Hitchcock. You don't actually have to see
every drop of blood guys..!
Elliott Grasett
Lust: How 'bout the Gorean Tales of John Norman?
Or are they just perverse?
--
Cheers,
Elliott
Graycat
>Sloth: Clive Cussler for writing the same book forever.
Eddings would fit that too - he wrote the belgariad twice...or, you
know, 4 times, if you count the sparhawk books too.
>Wrath: Richard Morgan for excessive violence, sex and social commentary in
>everything he's written. Or, possibly, Joe R. Lansdale [1]..;-)
John Osborne?
--
Elin
The world makes perfect sense, as a black comedy
Graycat
>GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Sloth: Clive Cussler for writing the same book forever.
>
>Eddings would fit that too - he wrote the belgariad twice...or, you
>know, 4 times, if you count the sparhawk books too.
>
>>Wrath: Richard Morgan for excessive violence, sex and social commentary in
>>everything he's written. Or, possibly, Joe R. Lansdale [1]..;-)
>
>John Osborne?
Or, ooh,
http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/authors/authors_behaving_badly_82556.asp
rhiannon s
"Graycat" <grayca...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:831h14t3e2mftae9q...@4ax.com...
> Graycat <grayca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Sloth: Clive Cussler for writing the same book forever.
> >
> >Eddings would fit that too - he wrote the belgariad twice...or, you
> >know, 4 times, if you count the sparhawk books too.
> >
> >>Wrath: Richard Morgan for excessive violence, sex and social commentary
in
> >>everything he's written. Or, possibly, Joe R. Lansdale [1]..;-)
> >
> >John Osborne?
>
> Or, ooh,
>
http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/authors/authors_behaving_badly_82556.as
p
Anne Rice forWrath?
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp09212004.shtml
--
Rhiannon_s
I am me, this is now, we are here!
Stacie
> Anne Rice forWrath?
>
> http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp09212004.shtml
> --
> Rhiannon_s
> I am me, this is now, we are here!
Hmmm, it might be a tough duel between that and "Pride".
After all, she did declare that her work was such perfection that she
didn't need no stinking editors.
Daniel Orner
For Lust I'd nominate Piers Anthony. Even his kids' books seem to have
innuendo added in for no good reason, and his "adult" novels seem to
consist mainly of pointless sex.
For Gluttony, if the problem is too much research, Michael Crichton
probably goes up there. Most of his books have a ten-page bibliography.
For Wrath, possibly Tom Holt? I'm increasingly seeing his general anger
at the world as expressed both in his fiction and his other writing.
Brian Howlett
> Eddings would fit that too - he wrote the belgariad twice...or, you
> know, 4 times, if you count the sparhawk books too.
I commend Michael Moorcock's "Eternal Champion" books in this
category.
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
-----------------------------------------------------
"What's the matter Colonel Sanders? Chicken?"
Arthur Hagen
Sloth: David and Leigh Eddings. How many times can you re-use the same
story line, and how many threads can you forget to nest up in your 300 page
closing?
Greed: Piers Anthony Jacob. If releasing intimate letter conversations you
had with a dying young girl fan, selling it as a book, and keeping most of
the profits isn't greed, what is?
Lust: Nora Roberts -- #1 housewife porn author.
Gluttony: David Langford. He'll eat any famous author, and in the best
Roman tradition, puke up copious amounts of fanfic before eating more.
Envy: David Langford, who really wishes he was *all* the famous authors.
Plus, David Langford is /always/ nominated in at least two categories.
Wrath: Harlan Ellison. No explanation required.
Regards,
--
*Art
Eric Jarvis
e05831...@y18g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, RuneOfIo...@gmail.com
says...
>
> The Positions are:
>
> Pride: Martin "I'm important" Amis
>
> Sloth: The notoriously "prolific" Joseph Heller
>
> Greed: Dan Brown
>
> Lust: Peter Hamilton for Misspent Youth
>
> Gluttony: Will Self
>
> Envy: Me, and probably just about every unpublished writer
>
> Wrath: Mary Gentle, what have her characters done to deserve it?
I would like to point out that, with one exception, all of these are
excellent writers.
--
eric
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Gary
news:fva68h$1fi3$1...@mud.stack.nl:
<snip>
>For Lust I'd nominate Piers Anthony. Even his kids' books seem to
>have innuendo added in for no good reason, and his "adult" novels seem to
consist mainly of pointless sex.
Like about half of the internet then?
> For Gluttony, if the problem is too much research, Michael
> Crichton probably goes up there. Most of his books have a ten-page
bibliography.
Crichton would have been my first choice, but I'd already nominated "The Lost
World" for the Greed prize (there's no other exzcuse for it!) so I went for
Clancy as a second (thinking about the "Opcentre" books). Admittedly the two
could be interchanged.
gary
Graycat
>Gluttony: EMPTY (someone with too much research?)
Or Enid Blyton - her characters are _always_ eating.
Tiny Bulcher
> RuneOfIormangand <RuneOfIo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Gluttony: EMPTY (someone with too much research?)
>
> Or Enid Blyton - her characters are _always_ eating.
And getting lashed on ginger beer.
Kieran Sanders
Having just re-read Night Watch, I'm suddenly thinking that there may be
a bit of a dark side to the enthusiasm for ginger beer displayed in
Blyton's books.
Daniel Orner
> Daniel Orner <webm...@ffcompendium.com> wrote in
> news:fva68h$1fi3$1...@mud.stack.nl:
>
> <snip>
>> For Lust I'd nominate Piers Anthony. Even his kids' books seem to
>> have innuendo added in for no good reason, and his "adult" novels seem to
> consist mainly of pointless sex.
>
> Like about half of the internet then?
Yes, but half of the internet aren't bestselling authors, I'm afraid,
and don't pretend to actually write storylines.
CCA
> > Envy: Me, and probably just about every unpublished writer
And probably a number of published ones too. Well, one, anyway...
CCA
Chris Zakes
GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> to write:
(snip)
>Not sure it's entirely fair but I would suggest:
>
>
>
>Pride: Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. After classics like "The Mote in
>Gods Eye", "Footfall" and "Lucifers Hammer" they produced
>http://www.baen.com/library/067172052x/067172052x.htm
>presumably on the basis that people would buy anything with their names on
>the cover.
Tastes differ (obviously) but I rather enjoy that one. Lots of fun
in-jokes for SF fans.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor, and I'm happy to
state I finally won out over it."
-Elwood P. Dowd in "Harvey"
GaryN
> Gary wrote:
>> Daniel Orner <webm...@ffcompendium.com> wrote in
>> news:fva68h$1fi3$1...@mud.stack.nl:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> For Lust I'd nominate Piers Anthony. Even his kids' books seem to
>>> have innuendo added in for no good reason, and his "adult" novels
>>> seem to consist mainly of pointless sex.
>>
>> Like about half of the internet then?
>
> Yes, but half of the internet aren't bestselling authors, I'm afraid,
> and don't pretend to actually write storylines.
Don't be so certain - the one about the plumber with a big plunger
coming to help out the scantily-clad housewife must be raking in the
royalty fees..:-)
gary
RuneOfIormangand
I hadn't thought of that. It's 2000 words, so I include them if I run
short.
Bonzai Kitten
And managed to have critical posts, even well measured and on-topic
ones deleted from Amazon, never to be seen again... Including mine.
Not that I'm bitter or anything.
Bonzai Kitten
> Daniel Orner <webmas...@ffcompendium.com> wrote innews:fvak95$1tan$4...@mud.stack.nl:
>
> > Gary wrote:
> >> Daniel Orner <webmas...@ffcompendium.com> wrote in
> >>news:fva68h$1fi3$1...@mud.stack.nl:
>
> >> <snip>
> >>> For Lust I'd nominate Piers Anthony. Even his kids' books seem to
> >>> have innuendo added in for no good reason, and his "adult" novels
> >>> seem to consist mainly of pointless sex.
>
> >> Like about half of the internet then?
>
> > Yes, but half of the internet aren't bestselling authors, I'm afraid,
> > and don't pretend to actually write storylines.
>
> Don't be so certain - the one about the plumber with a big plunger
> coming to help out the scantily-clad housewife must be raking in the
> royalty fees..:-)
>
> gary
Ah, the one with the Big Boops?
John Wilkins
Well if you've seen her latest stinker, it's pretty damned obvious that
she needs a dozen editors.
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Philosophy
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."
peachy ashie passion
There ya go!
Put her in for Pride, move Hamilton into Lust. That's much more tidy.
Lesley Weston
> On 30 Apr 2008 13:03:41 GMT, an orbital mind-control laser caused
> GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> to write:
>
> (snip)
>
>> Not sure it's entirely fair but I would suggest:
>>
>>
>>
>> Pride: Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. After classics like "The Mote in
>> Gods Eye", "Footfall" and "Lucifers Hammer" they produced
>> http://www.baen.com/library/067172052x/067172052x.htm
>> presumably on the basis that people would buy anything with their names on
>> the cover.
>
> Tastes differ (obviously) but I rather enjoy that one. Lots of fun
> in-jokes for SF fans.
People seem to get upset about the book's basic premise, so the book
can't be good however well-written, well-plotted and well-charactered it
is. Though I suppose most of the characters had already invented
themselves, so the credit for such vivid imaginations can't really go to
LN and JP.
--
Lesley Weston
The addy above is real, but I won't see anything posted to it for a long
time. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca, adjusting as necessary.
RuneOfIormangand
wrote:
Hamilton said the same thing about her series with vampires (she
abuses commas and confuses 'lose' with 'loose'). Hmm ... then she
could go into Envy ... But I chose LKH for her canon Mary Sue. I
prefer that angle.
peachy ashie passion
If you must. It just seems to me that there are so many others
doing the same, that's hardly original with her.
SteveD
wrote:
>GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Sloth: Clive Cussler for writing the same book forever.
>
>Eddings would fit that too - he wrote the belgariad twice...or, you
>know, 4 times, if you count the sparhawk books too.
And, apparently, on purpose :)
GaryN
news:mOrSj.106909$rd2.91715@pd7urf3no:
> Chris Zakes wrote:
>> On 30 Apr 2008 13:03:41 GMT, an orbital mind-control laser caused
>> GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> to write:
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>>> Not sure it's entirely fair but I would suggest:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pride: Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. After classics like "The
>>> Mote in Gods Eye", "Footfall" and "Lucifers Hammer" they produced
>>> http://www.baen.com/library/067172052x/067172052x.htm
>>> presumably on the basis that people would buy anything with their
>>> names on the cover.
>>
>> Tastes differ (obviously) but I rather enjoy that one. Lots of fun
>> in-jokes for SF fans.
>
> People seem to get upset about the book's basic premise, so the book
> can't be good however well-written, well-plotted and well-charactered
> it is. Though I suppose most of the characters had already invented
> themselves, so the credit for such vivid imaginations can't really go
> to LN and JP.
I didn't dislike the book, it's entertaining enough, I just thought it
was a rather below-par effort for one of the best collaborative pairings
in Science Fiction writing. Personally I think that "The Legacy of
Heorot" with Julian Barnes got some extremely unfair reviews (but I just
found a pristine UK first edition hardback copy for £1.50 in a charity
shop so won't complain)
gary
Richard Bos
> e05831...@y18g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, RuneOfIo...@gmail.com
> >
> > The Positions are:
> >
> > Pride: Martin "I'm important" Amis
> > Greed: Dan Brown
> > Envy: Me, and probably just about every unpublished writer
> I would like to point out that, with one exception, all of these are
> excellent writers.
Doesn't that mean that you should be in Pride, as well?
Richard
Julian Hall
> GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Sloth: Clive Cussler for writing the same book forever.
>
> Eddings would fit that too - he wrote the belgariad twice...or, you
> know, 4 times, if you count the sparhawk books too.
So would Dan Brown. All four of his books fit the exact same template to
a frankly boring degree.
Kind regards,
Julian
Julian Hall
There are four ongoing series with the name 'Tom Clancy's...' etc.
OpCentre, Netforce, Power Plays and Splinter Cell. I happen to like
them, but I would agree that the Gluttony category probably is right.
Kidn regards,
Julian
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> There are four ongoing series with the name 'Tom Clancy's...' etc.
> OpCentre, Netforce, Power Plays and Splinter Cell. I happen to like
> them, but I would agree that the Gluttony category probably is right.
Or perhaps Sloth? At least the plagerists and self-plagerists do the actual
writing themselves...
--
Dave
"I thought Billie Piper was an oil rig."
-Sandi Toksvig, The News Quiz
Julian Hall
> On 03 May 2008, Julian Hall <ne...@kaotic.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> There are four ongoing series with the name 'Tom Clancy's...' etc.
>> OpCentre, Netforce, Power Plays and Splinter Cell. I happen to like
>> them, but I would agree that the Gluttony category probably is right.
>
> Or perhaps Sloth? At least the plagerists and self-plagerists do the actual
> writing themselves...
Fair point :)
RuneOfIormangand
wrote:
> Pratchett is a great writer. He is not the subject of this post. If
> this is against rules, please tell me. I am posting this here because
> I have lurked as a fan for years, and I see that many people here know
> assignment of demonstrating the Seven Sins using authors as examples.
> This doesn't mean I believe all their work is bad, only that they have
> occasional moments of weakness like all of us. I would like
> suggestions for candidates.
>
> Pride: Laurell K Hamilton (for her current Mary-Sue-ish grip on her
> characters)
> Sloth: Cassie Edwards? (for being caught plagarising like a uni
> student)
> Greed: J K Rowling (not just for her wealth, but for her denial of
> anyone else using her work, as in encyclopaedias and black-haired boys
> with glasses. Not that she's entirely wrong, but monopolising short
> sighted dark boys ...)
> Lust: EMPTY (It would be cruel to put down LKH twice. I'm a bit too
> bashful to look elsewhere ...)
> Wrath: EMPTY (overexcessive use of overexcessive gore? Or public
> ranting?)
>
> If there is a suggestion for an empty spot, or even one that is
> filled, I would appreciate it. If you think this is wrong and cruel, I
> can't stop you from flaming me.
>
Envy could also be someone impersonating someone else, or another
nationality. I've can get an example of that from the 'Demidenko' (sp)
case.
Lust can also be an author's desire to get attention or people to like
them. Narrowing that down may be different.
Wrath, for the purpose of reducing how much new stuff I have to read,
will be Darren Shan. I've noticed how his gore in the Demonata series
is more liberal and less effective in his vampire series. He reads
like a little kid's imagination, now.
RuneOfIormangand
> For Lust I'd nominate Piers Anthony. Even his kids' books seem to have
> innuendo added in for no good reason, and his "adult" novels seem to
> consist mainly of pointless sex.
Could these books be named? I've only read one Xanth. I wondered how
they would translate all the puns into other languages.
Catja Pafort
> The Positions are:
> Pride: Laurell K Hamilton (for her current Mary-Sue-ish grip on her
> characters)
> Sloth: Cassie Edwards? (for being caught plagarising like a uni
> student)
> Greed: J K Rowling (not just for her wealth, but for her denial of
> anyone else using her work, as in encyclopaedias and black-haired boys
> with glasses. Not that she's entirely wrong, but monopolising short
> sighted dark boys ...)
> Lust: EMPTY (It would be cruel to put down LKH twice. I'm a bit too
> bashful to look elsewhere ...)
> Gluttony: EMPTY (someone with too much research?)
> Envy: EMPTY (someone who tries to hard to emulate someone else?)
> Wrath: EMPTY (overexcessive use of overexcessive gore? Or public
> ranting?)
Wrath: any author who gets into arguments with Amazon reviewers.
Oh drat, there goes Laurell K. Hamilton again.
Catja
--
writing blog @ http://beyond-elechan.livejournal.com
Geoff Field
> RuneOfIormangand wrote:
>
>> The Positions are:
>> Pride: Laurell K Hamilton (for her current Mary-Sue-ish grip on her
>> characters)
>> Sloth: Cassie Edwards? (for being caught plagarising like a uni
>> student)
>> Greed: J K Rowling (not just for her wealth, but for her denial of
>> anyone else using her work, as in encyclopaedias and black-haired
>> boys with glasses. Not that she's entirely wrong, but monopolising
>> short sighted dark boys ...)
>> Lust: EMPTY (It would be cruel to put down LKH twice. I'm a bit too
>> bashful to look elsewhere ...)
>> Gluttony: EMPTY (someone with too much research?)
>> Envy: EMPTY (someone who tries to hard to emulate someone else?)
>> Wrath: EMPTY (overexcessive use of overexcessive gore? Or public
>> ranting?)
>
> Wrath: any author who gets into arguments with Amazon reviewers.
On my first quick glance at this particular post, the word "bashful" stuck
in my forebrain. It made me think it was something about dwarves and
traditional names.
I think the above set of dwarves would be one I would *not* want to
meet.
> Oh drat, there goes Laurell K. Hamilton again.
Well go an put him out, then...
Geoff
--
Geoff Field
Professional Geek,
Amateur Stage-Levelling Gauge
Len Oil
> Catja Pafort wrote:
[...]
>> Wrath: any author who gets into arguments with Amazon reviewers.
>
> On my first quick glance at this particular post, the word "bashful" stuck
> in my forebrain. It made me think it was something about dwarves and
> traditional names.
>
> I think the above set of dwarves would be one I would *not* want to
> meet.
You've just sparked the idea of the "Seven /Dwarfs/ of Writing".
Of course, as I felt under-qualified to contribute to the Sins version,
I'm not sure I'm the best person to start it off. It's traditionally
hard enough to remember (without looking it up) all seven of Happy,
Sleepy, Dopey, Sneezy, Grumpy, Bashful and Doc.
Also, for some reason, I imagine there'd be some people able to populate
the list of: Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub. (And
Captain Flack to make it seven.)
;)
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> Geoff Field wrote:
>> Catja Pafort wrote:
> [...]
>>> Wrath: any author who gets into arguments with Amazon reviewers.
>>
>> On my first quick glance at this particular post, the word "bashful"
>> stuck in my forebrain. It made me think it was something about
>> dwarves and traditional names.
>>
>> I think the above set of dwarves would be one I would *not* want to
>> meet.
>
> You've just sparked the idea of the "Seven /Dwarfs/ of Writing".
>
>
> Of course, as I felt under-qualified to contribute to the Sins
> version, I'm not sure I'm the best person to start it off. It's
> traditionally hard enough to remember (without looking it up) all
> seven of Happy, Sleepy, Dopey, Sneezy, Grumpy, Bashful and Doc.
Happy: Possibly Angus Deayton, author of "In Search of Happiness"? I
can't recall if he found it, though, and even if he did I suspect he's
lost it since...
Sleepy: Pterry (or any other author who does lots of signing tours) at
the end of one.
Dopey: Putting anyone here would be nasty and vicious. So I'll say
Jeffrey Archer 8-).
Sneezy: Um... John M. Barry, author of "The Great Influenza".
Grumpy: Anne Rice again?
Bashful: DNA always struck me as embarrassed by his own success. Or, for
a different definition, Thomas Bowlder.
Doc: E.E. Smith. Duh.
--
Dave
So I looked, and behold, a pale horse.
And the name of him who sat on it was Death.
And the name of the horse was Binky.