LONG ARM OF THE LAW - part two
Robert C. Miller
The Police Protective League has been on the periphery of the Simpson
case throughout its unfolding. When charges of racism surfaced against
Detective Fuhrman in the summer of 1994, the PPL rushed to his public
defense. At the end of the trial, when Fuhrman's character took hit
after hit, the union was put on the defensive. When, in the middle of
the trial, black Police Chief Willie Williams was caught in a scandal
involving free rooms at a Las Vegas casino, both the Organized Crime
Intelligence Division and the Police Protective League surfaced in
reports in the media:
Newsweek reported in its June 5 issue that police officers
followed Williams on trips to Las Vegas, then leaked details of their
surveillance to discredit him.
According to Newsweek, detectives in the department's Organized
Crime Intelligence Division compiled the Williams dossier, which
resulted in a Williams reprimand two weeks ago by the Police Commission.
"This was a rogue operation to get rid of Williams," an
unidentified police source told the magazine.
But there were doubts about the article.
"I don't think there's any retaliation by anybody in OCID,"
Williams said.
"I don't believe that anyone from our department was tailing the
chief or anything like that. They've got other things to do," said Gary
Fullerton, director of the Police Protective League...
Newsweek said the file on Williams was given to retired Deputy
Chief Stephen Downing, a close associate of Williams' ousted
predecessor, Daryl Gates. Downing's letter to the Police Commission
last December started the official investigation of Williams...
Chairing the Police Commission during Williams' censure (and
most of the Simpson trial) was Hank Hernandez' son, Enrique Hernandez
Jr. Curiously, on the same day that Sergeant Lerner was testifying
about the secret taping at the Gretna Green condo, the younger Hernandez
was involved in a breach of airport security. When
conflict-of-interest charges arose against Hernandez Jr. regarding
failure of his (and his father's) security company, Inter-Con Security
Systems, Inc., not performing its end of a $3 million contract with the
City of Los Angeles, he resigned from the Police Commission.
The Police Protective League was also used by Mark Fuhrman
during his testimony to explain his whereabouts on the night of the
murders, claiming that at 8 p.m. on June 12th he "was in East of Palm
Desert in La Quinta Resort at a Protective League seminar" at the
League's barbeque. He said that he left the barbeque "somewhere around
8:00 o'clock just as the barbeque was starting," got home "about
ten-thirty," and was in bed "about 11:00, maybe a little later."
Unfortunately, the PPL barbeque was on Saturday afternoon, June 11.
There had been a general session meeting held on Sunday morning, from 8
to 11 a.m. Was Fuhrman still there at eight in the evening on June
12th, nine hours later, and if so, what was he doing there? Was he
meeting with people like Hank Hernandez? Or was the PPL providing a
phony alibi for Fuhrman? Considering the lengths to which the
prosecution rehearsed Fuhrman's testimony, did Marcia Clark know her
witness may have been purgering himself? If Fuhrman did lie about his
whereabouts on the evening of the murders, why?
During the preliminary hearing, in justifying going to Simpson's
Rockingham residence, Fuhrman said: "I would be concerned with the
[younger Simpson] children and the ex-husband since they [Nicole and
O.J.] still had joint custory of the children." The average cop in the
West L.A. Police Station does not know the custody status of all the
separated and divorced couples in Brentwood. How could Fuhrman know
this information about the Simpson family? In fact, there had been
reports that Fuhrman had (at a police picnic several years prior to the
murders) bragged about Nicole Simpson’s "boob job" and had hinted that
he had an affair with her. One is reminded of the reports of
undercover cops having affairs with movie stars. Were undercover cops
having affairs with ex-wives of movie stars?
Whatever his relationship with Nicole Brown Simpson may have
been before June 12, 1994, Fuhrman would not have been the only cop to
be watching Nicole, her friend Faye Resnick, Ron Goldman and O.J. before
the murders. According to Freed and Briggs in Killing Time, "Members of
the Simpson circle were the subjects of narcotic squad surveillance on
an irregular basis." The Organized Crime Intelligence Division of the
LAPD would be a logical repository of any information collected by
narcotics agents on the Simpson crowd. This surveillance for possible
narcotics use or sales may have been based on hard evidence, but it
could also have been used as justification for police monitoring of
Simpson et al for other purposes.
After the murders, the LAPD surveilled O.J.'s son Jason and
others, allegedly, to find possible accomplices:
"Authorities admit constant observation of a number of potential
co-conspirators, including 'residence-monitoring,' which means having
undercover officers move into a domicile near the target. For that
assignment, our independent investigators learned, police officers who
had been active in the notorious covert operations against the Black
Panthers and other militant rights and peace groups in the sixties and
seventies were used in developing the LAPD strategy."
It should not be forgotten that Ron Shipp, who became part of
Simpson's circle, first as a domestic abuse specialist, and after he
officially left the LAPD, by entering the acting field (Simpson had
helped get him work), was friends with Simpson's personal secretary,
Kathy Reina. Did he ever use his friendship with the Simpsons to gather
information for people within the LAPD? Shipp also claimed that Simpson
used him and his connections in order to trace cars' license plates,
allegedly as a means of identifying and locating women who appealed to
him. Did Shipp report what he told Simpson to others within the LAPD?
It was Shipp who claimed that Simpson told him that he had dreamed of
killing Nicole the night after the murders and was afraid of taking a
lie detector test (Actually, early on in the proceedings, Simpson's
attorneys offered for Simpson to take a lie detector test if the
prosecution would allow it into evidence. Marcia Clark et al declined.
). Shipp was part of a milieu of off-duty policemen who used Simpson's
tennis courts. Did any of these police use those occasions to observe
the Rockingham residence for surveillance purposes?
The same milieu of police and intelligence that hovered around
O.J. Simpson and the murder victims in Brentwood had been found at the
edges of Robert Kennedy's assassination, the Tate-LaBianca murders, the
Symbionese Liberation Army, and the various COINTELPRO operations such
as the framing of Black Panther Geronimo Pratt.
Why didn't anyone in the press notice?
Footnotes:
"Police Interrogated in Blast at Argentine Jewish Center," by
Sebastian Rotella, Los Angeles Times, July 16, 1996. "Authorities
investigating the bombing of a Jewish community center in 1994 were
interrogating Monday more than a dozen police officers suspected of
links to the terrorist attack.
"The arrests of several high-ranking commanders and other
officers of the Buenos Aires provincial police came days before
Thursday's two-year anniversary of the bombing that killed 87 people,
the deadliest anti-Semitic attack outside Israel since World War II..."
Consider: "Party set for cop who beat King," San Jose Mercury
News, October 28, 1995. "Minority and civil rights groups are
criticizing a county supervisor who is planning a December homecoming
dinner for a former police officer convicted in the beating of Rodney
King...
"Supervisor Mike Antonovich says Powell was wrongly convicted in
the beating and arranged the dinner to help pay off his legal bills.
The event, to be held in a private banquet hall at the Los Angeles
Police Academy, also is sponsored by former and current local Republican
members of Congress..."
It should also be noted that while there were four cops who
participated in beating King, there were two dozen other law enforcement
officers who stood by and watched and did not come forward until the
videotape of the beating was broadcast.
From the McKinny tapes, as quoted in Killing Time, by Donald Freed
and Raymond P. Briggs.
From a National Public Radio story by Pat Ford, on July 8, 1995:
"By their own accounts the five rogue officers operated for years as,
essentially, vigilantes in uniform: searching houses without warrants,
assaulting and intimidating suspected drug dealers and stealing their
money, planting evidence, lying in court to get convictions."
From "Public Defender Challenges Convictions," San Francisco
Chronicle, March 2, 1995: "The tests were handled by police technician
Allison Lancaster, who was the target of an internal police sting
operation last summer. Investigators said Lancaster did not perform a
follow-up test on a chemical that was presented to her, falsely said
that she had conducted the test and inaccurately reported the substance
to be an illegal drug.
"Lancaster has been suspended but has not been charged with any
crimes."
Then consider the conclusion of the court challenges, buried in
a news story about another possible incident of evidence fraud within
the SFPD: "Last year, a police crime lab technician was accused of
faking or failing to perform all required tests on drugs sent for
analyses. But a judge refused to reopen more than 900 drug convictions
in which police testing was critical evidence." From, "S.F. police
probe case of missing fingerprint," by Dennis J. Opatrny, San Francisco
Examiner, September 24, 1996.
Also, from the SF Weekly, "Bay View: Cops vs. Cops," by Carlton
Smith, October 25-31, 1995: "...The cops-chasing-cops action culminated
in criminal indictments against ...[police officers] who were charged on
Sept. 28 with multiple counts of theft and grand theft [of alleged drug
dealers]."
Consider this, from Killing Time by Freed and Briggs: "March 1,
1996: The Los Angeles Times reported a new scandal in a story headlined
'LAPD Drug Officer Being Investigated.' The charge involved the Field
Enforcement Section of the LAPD Narcotics Group. This unit was under
the command of Captain Constance Dial -- who had been one of those in
charge of the Bundy crime scene on June 12, 1994. The story began:
"Authorities fear detectives may have lied on court documents...." On
the same day, another story in the same paper is headlined: Deputy
Accused of Planting Evidence Surrenders."
"Army feared King, secretly watched him; Spying on blacks started
75 years ago," by Stephen Tompkins, Commercial Appeal, March 21, 1993.
For a summary of the Commercial Appeal article and press reaction
to it, see "Army's History of Spying On African Americans," by Jack
Colhoun, Lies Of Our Times, July/August 1993.
From Kato Kaelin: The Whole Truth by Marc Eliot. Also, it should
be noted that Officer Richard Walley, one of the first officers at the
Bundy murder scene, had been one of the first police at the scene of the
Tate-LaBianca murders.
Because the vial of blood was originally listed as entered into
evidence after Vannater's partner, Tom Lange, turned in a pair of
Simpson's athletic shoes, and those shoes had been turned in on the
morning of the 14th, and considering the implausible story Dennis Fung
arrived at as to when he received the blood, it has been speculated that
Vannater may not have turned the blood over to Fung until the next day.
In either case, Vannater would have had more than enough time to
extract enough blood to be used to taint evidence.
From Curt Gentry's J.Edgar Hoover: The Man and The Secrets.
In Deep Politics, Peter Dale Scott cites Churchill and Vander
Wall's Agents of Repression, that Daniel Groth, head of the Chicago
police unit that killed Fred Hampton, "never had a normal police
assignment, buty was deployed all along in a counterintelligence
capacity, having earlier focused his attentions upon such entities as
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee . Groth's record also reveals several
lengthy "training leaves" to Washington, D.C., where it is believed he
underwent specialized counterintelligence training under the auspices of
both the FBI and CIA.
From To Protect And To Serve by Joe Domanick.
"Frenzy: The Press, Earth First! and the Unabomber," by Jeffrey
St. Clair and Alexander Cockburn, Anderson Valley Advertiser, April 17,
1996.
Whatever Hoover's problems with LAPD Police Chief Parker, by the
late 1960s Parker was out of office, and by 1972 Hoover was dead.
From The Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy, by William Turner and
John Christian.
From "The Anti-Defamation League: Civil Rights and Wrongs," by
Abdeen Jabara, Covert Action Quarterly, Summer 1993.
From the author's interview of Crew on San Francisco public access
television in 1994.
Western Goals is connected with the World Anti-Communist League
(WACL), an international conglomeration of ultra-right and fascist
groups. Western Goals was founded by the late Congressman Larry
McDonald, killed on KAL Flight 007 in 1983.
From To Protect And To Serve by Joe Domanick.
From L.A. Secret Police: Inside the LAPD Elite Spy Network, by
Mike Rothmiller and Ivan G. Goldman.
From The Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy, by William Turnder and
Jonn Christian.
From Blood Oath, by Steven Worth and Carl Jaspers.
"What Has Happened to the 'LAPD 44'? by Alan Abrahamson, Los
Angeles Times, October 15, 1996.
"L.A.'s Police Union Under Fire: Fuhrman tapes prompt calls for
change from inside and out," a Los Angeles Times article reprinted in
the San Francisco Chronicle, September 16, 1995.
"L.A. Police Chief Denies Newsweek Report; He says he did nothing
wrong on trips to Las Vegas," San Francisco Chronicle, May 31, 1995.
"L.A. Official May Be Fined For Using Clout," San Francisco
Chronicle, June 22, 1995. "Federal officials want the head of the
Police Commission penalized $1000 for improperly flashing his badge to
sidestep a metal detector at Los Angeles International Airport.
"Enrique Hernandez Jr. allegedly used his credential to get past
a detector on Feb. 3 because he was late for a personal flight to Las
Vegas on Southwest Airlines..."
"Possible Conflict For Ex-Police Official in L.A.," San Francisco
Chronicle, July 3, 1995.
Information and trial citations from Blood Oath, by Steven Worth
and Carl Jaspers.
From the testimony, as cited in Steven Singular's Legacy Of
Deception.
Killing Time.
Killing Time.
From Killing Time.
carrot
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Kathy wrote:
> =
> Snips throughout for space
> =
> On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:40:29 -0700, "Robert C. Miller"
> <robertcarlmi...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> =
> >The Police Protective League has been on the periphery of the Simpson
> >case throughout its unfolding. When charges of racism surfaced agains=
t
> >Detective Fuhrman in the summer of 1994, the PPL rushed to his public
> >defense. At the end of the trial, when Fuhrman's character took hit
> >after hit, the union was put on the defensive. When, in the middle o=
f
> >the trial, black Police Chief Willie Williams was caught in a scandal
> =
> Why are you bothering with all the Willie Williams stuff? I thought
> you were going to post your scenario of what you think happened that
> night.. You had a lot of things in this that are completely
> irrelevant, I've snipped most of them.
> =
> > The Police Protective League was also used by Mark Fuhrman
> >during his testimony to explain his whereabouts on the night of the
> >murders, claiming that at 8 p.m. on June 12th he "was in East of Palm
> >Desert in La Quinta Resort at a Protective League seminar" at the
> >League's barbeque. He said that he left the barbeque "somewhere aroun=
d
> >8:00 o'clock just as the barbeque was starting," got home "about
> >ten-thirty," and was in bed "about 11:00, maybe a little later."
> >Unfortunately, the PPL barbeque was on Saturday afternoon, June 11.
> >There had been a general session meeting held on Sunday morning, from =
8
> >to 11 a.m. Was Fuhrman still there at eight in the evening on June
> =
> I have asked you and I have seen others ask you where is your proof it
> was on Saturday and not Sunday? Mark did say he also had a receipt
> from when he got gas, that shows the date and time on it. You keep
> saying it was Saturday yet I haven't seen you say how you came to that
> conclusion yet. And I'm surprised the defense didn't also bring it up
> that Mark had the dates mixed up. (I have a feeling Mark was right
> with his dates).
> =
> >12th, nine hours later, and if so, what was he doing there? Was he
> >meeting with people like Hank Hernandez? Or was the PPL providing a
> >phony alibi for Fuhrman? Considering the lengths to which the
> >prosecution rehearsed Fuhrman's testimony, did Marcia Clark know her
> >witness may have been purgering himself? If Fuhrman did lie about his=
> >whereabouts on the evening of the murders, why?
> =
> If he was telling the truth, what significance does it have to you?
> =
> > During the preliminary hearing, in justifying going to Simpson'=
s
> >Rockingham residence, Fuhrman said: "I would be concerned with the
> >[younger Simpson] children and the ex-husband since they [Nicole and
> >O.J.] still had joint custory of the children." The average cop in t=
he
> >West L.A. Police Station does not know the custody status of all the
> >separated and divorced couples in Brentwood. How could Fuhrman know
> >this information about the Simpson family? In fact, there had been
> =
> Sometimes people will put two and two together, he's at Nicole's
> house, he sees mail from OJ, he sees pictures of OJ, there are kids in
> the house, some people may assume since this is OJ's ex-wife and that
> his picture is displayed for all to see, that they are on good terms.
> =
> >reports that Fuhrman had (at a police picnic several years prior to th=
e
> >murders) bragged about Nicole Simpson=92s "boob job" and had hinted th=
at
> >he had an affair with her. One is reminded of the reports of
> >undercover cops having affairs with movie stars. Were undercover cops=
> >having affairs with ex-wives of movie stars?
> =
> Your using rumors and gossip as part of your theory now? Instead of
> facts? Once you do that people stop taking you seriously.
> =
> > Whatever his relationship with Nicole Brown Simpson may have
> >been before June 12, 1994, Fuhrman would not have been the only cop to=
> >be watching Nicole, her friend Faye Resnick, Ron Goldman and O.J. befo=
re
> >the murders. According to Freed and Briggs in Killing Time, "Members =
of
> >the Simpson circle were the subjects of narcotic squad surveillance on=
> >an irregular basis." The Organized Crime Intelligence Division of the=
> >LAPD would be a logical repository of any information collected by
> >narcotics agents on the Simpson crowd. This surveillance for possible=
> >narcotics use or sales may have been based on hard evidence, but it
> >could also have been used as justification for police monitoring of
> >Simpson et al for other purposes.
> =
> That is what Freed says, now what evidence does he have to back this
> up? You aren't taking him at his word without being shown some type of
> evidence to back this up are you? And what other purposes are you
> trying to allude to that the LAPD would be watching Simpson for? I
> myself have a problem with Freed, since I know he lied in his book,
> and also from the interview I saw him do on Burden of Proof.
> =
> > After the murders, the LAPD surveilled O.J.'s son Jason and
> >others, allegedly, to find possible accomplices:
> =
> Allegedly? Your proof of this is?
> =
> >"Authorities admit constant observation of a number of potential
> >co-conspirators, including 'residence-monitoring,' which means having
> >undercover officers move into a domicile near the target. For that
> >assignment, our independent investigators learned, police officers who=
> >had been active in the notorious covert operations against the Black
> >Panthers and other militant rights and peace groups in the sixties and=
> >seventies were used in developing the LAPD strategy."
> =
> What is the name of this so called authority(s)? Wait are you saying
> they had residence monitoring on people associated with OJ after the
> murders or are you talking about back when the Black Panthers were
> monitored?
> =
> > It should not be forgotten that Ron Shipp, who became part of
> >Simpson's circle, first as a domestic abuse specialist, and after he
> =
> Shipp was a friend way before he agreed to talk to OJ for Nicole.
> =
> >officially left the LAPD, by entering the acting field (Simpson had
> >helped get him work), was friends with Simpson's personal secretary,
> >Kathy Reina. Did he ever use his friendship with the Simpsons to gath=
er
> =
> Why do you have Cathy Randa's name completely wrong? What type of
> information would the LAPD want from Simpson? Seems to me Shipp helped
> OJ out when it was needed concerning the LAPD.
> =
> >information for people within the LAPD? Shipp also claimed that Simps=
on
> >used him and his connections in order to trace cars' license plates,
> >allegedly as a means of identifying and locating women who appealed to=
> >him. Did Shipp report what he told Simpson to others within the LAPD?=
> =
> Why was there others at LAPD who wanted to try and go out with the
> same ladies OJ was attempting to?
> =
> >It was Shipp who claimed that Simpson told him that he had dreamed of
> >killing Nicole the night after the murders and was afraid of taking a
> >lie detector test (Actually, early on in the proceedings, Simpson's
> >attorneys offered for Simpson to take a lie detector test if the
> >prosecution would allow it into evidence. Marcia Clark et al declined=
=2E
> =
> Lucky for the Defense Marcia didn't take them up on that, it would
> have been quite embarrassing if the results were admitted and the jury
> saw how bad OJ did on the test.
> =
> >). Shipp was part of a milieu of off-duty policemen who used Simpson'=
s
> >tennis courts. Did any of these police use those occasions to observe=
> >the Rockingham residence for surveillance purposes?
> =
> No but Oj obviously considered Ron a friend and even had Ron take care
> of security at Nicole's funeral. BTW what were they supposed to be
> surveilling?
> =
> > The same milieu of police and intelligence that hovered around
> >O.J. Simpson and the murder victims in Brentwood had been found at the=
> >edges of Robert Kennedy's assassination, the Tate-LaBianca murders, th=
e
> >Symbionese Liberation Army, and the various COINTELPRO operations such=
> >as the framing of Black Panther Geronimo Pratt.
> > Why didn't anyone in the press notice?
> =
> Perhaps because what your trying to theorize has no bases in fact?
> What your basically saying here, is that some of these cops were on
> the force a long time, so if they dealt with a high profile case
> before then were in another high profile case, that means there was
> some type of conspiracy or relationship btwn the murders, when there
> wasn't. It kind of looks like your saying that each cop on the force
> should only be involved in one high profile case in their career,
> otherwise if they are on more than one, it makes it look like the
> murders are somehow inner weaved together, no matter that there is
> twenty year time span btwn the murders. BTW most of those cops that
> you allege were involved in the Simpson case also were involved in the
> other high profile cases, well a lot of them weren't even old enough
> to be on the police force when the other cases happened. So how can
> you say they are all tied in together?
Good post, Kathy. You have delineated nicely Bob's propensity to use
innuendo sans fact. Maybe one day Bob will get lucky like Mel Gibson's
character in the new movie "Conspiracy".
BM.
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alwalker
--
"The truth of this time will eventually make itself known.
"None of us is ever without flaws, but using the
death of your own son as a stepping stone to your
own personal betterment is the single most
despicable act attributable to modern man"
Kathy wrote in article <33de2eac...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>Snips throughout for space
>
>On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:40:29 -0700, "Robert C. Miller"
><robertcarlmi...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
+++
>> The Police Protective League was also used by Mark Fuhrman
>>during his testimony to explain his whereabouts on the night of the
>>murders, claiming that at 8 p.m. on June 12th he "was in East of Palm
>>Desert in La Quinta Resort at a Protective League seminar" at the
>>League's barbeque. He said that he left the barbeque "somewhere around
>>8:00 o'clock just as the barbeque was starting," got home "about
>>ten-thirty," and was in bed "about 11:00, maybe a little later."
>>Unfortunately, the PPL barbeque was on Saturday afternoon, June 11.
>>There had been a general session meeting held on Sunday morning, from 8
>>to 11 a.m. Was Fuhrman still there at eight in the evening on June
>
>I have asked you and I have seen others ask you where is your proof it
>was on Saturday and not Sunday? Mark did say he also had a receipt
>from when he got gas, that shows the date and time on it. You keep
>saying it was Saturday yet I haven't seen you say how you came to that
>conclusion yet. And I'm surprised the defense didn't also bring it up
>that Mark had the dates mixed up. (I have a feeling Mark was right
>with his dates).
>
> Soooo now its Mark is it ? and you dont wish to connect yourself to
the participants in this case ? OH and how is it he just happens to have
the
reciept for that day ? Some coincidence kathy,, can i put two and two
together
this time ? Or is it just the Marks that can do it ? Christ you are so
transparent!
+++
>>12th, nine hours later, and if so, what was he doing there? Was he
>>meeting with people like Hank Hernandez? Or was the PPL providing a
>>phony alibi for Fuhrman? Considering the lengths to which the
>>prosecution rehearsed Fuhrman's testimony, did Marcia Clark know her
>>witness may have been purgering himself? If Fuhrman did lie about his
>>whereabouts on the evening of the murders, why?
>
>If he was telling the truth, what significance does it have to you?
>
> Oh its okay for furman to put two and two together, but if anyone
on OJs side does it, its of no consequence, is that your position ?
What is it that has you so ready to make excuses for the prosecution ?
And in particular Mark ? You got a thing for this guy ?
+++
>> During the preliminary hearing, in justifying going to Simpson's
>>Rockingham residence, Fuhrman said: "I would be concerned with the
>>[younger Simpson] children and the ex-husband since they [Nicole and
>>O.J.] still had joint custory of the children." The average cop in the
>>West L.A. Police Station does not know the custody status of all the
>>separated and divorced couples in Brentwood. How could Fuhrman know
>>this information about the Simpson family? In fact, there had been
>
>Sometimes people will put two and two together, he's at Nicole's
>house, he sees mail from OJ, he sees pictures of OJ, there are kids in
>the house, some people may assume since this is OJ's ex-wife and that
>his picture is displayed for all to see, that they are on good terms.
>
> You will stretch a rumor till its downright goofy wont you?
Two and two together ? cops deal with facts, just the facts mam !
Furman was without question very well informed about the
simpsons. Better than 99, 9/10ths of other cops and people.
You are the single most prolific excuse maker for the police
and anyone who is on the other side of OJ. It is really pathetic
that you think you are even handed and unbiased.
+++
>>reports that Fuhrman had (at a police picnic several years prior to the
>>murders) bragged about Nicole Simpson’s "boob job" and had hinted that
>>he had an affair with her. One is reminded of the reports of
>>undercover cops having affairs with movie stars. Were undercover cops
>>having affairs with ex-wives of movie stars?
>
>Your using rumors and gossip as part of your theory now? Instead of
>facts? Once you do that people stop taking you seriously.
>
> Is that why you do it ?
> You take the word of shipp as gospel and fact,
and you arent using rumors and gossip ?
+++
>> After the murders, the LAPD surveilled O.J.'s son Jason and
>>others, allegedly, to find possible accomplices:
>
>Allegedly? Your proof of this is?
>
>>"Authorities admit constant observation of a number of potential
>>co-conspirators, including 'residence-monitoring,' which means having
>>undercover officers move into a domicile near the target. For that
>>assignment, our independent investigators learned, police officers who
>>had been active in the notorious covert operations against the Black
>>Panthers and other militant rights and peace groups in the sixties and
>>seventies were used in developing the LAPD strategy."
+++
>What is the name of this so called authority(s)? Wait are you saying
>they had residence monitoring on people associated with OJ after the
>murders or are you talking about back when the Black Panthers were
>monitored?
> Black panthers? He said Jason and other members of the house.
Is it impossible to think Cathy R or arnelle might try to dispose of
the knife or bloody clothes? The police have admitted they had their
suspicions of anyone connected to OJ. Classy bunch huh ?
+++
>> It should not be forgotten that Ron Shipp, who became part of
>>Simpson's circle, first as a domestic abuse specialist, and after he
>
>Shipp was a friend way before he agreed to talk to OJ for Nicole.
>
>only in shipps mind
+++
>>officially left the LAPD, by entering the acting field (Simpson had
>>helped get him work), was friends with Simpson's personal secretary,
>>Kathy Reina. Did he ever use his friendship with the Simpsons to gather
>
>Why do you have Cathy Randa's name completely wrong? What type of
>information would the LAPD want from Simpson? Seems to me Shipp helped
>OJ out when it was needed concerning the LAPD.
>
> The spelling does not change the issue does it kathy?
+++
>>information for people within the LAPD? Shipp also claimed that Simpson
>>used him and his connections in order to trace cars' license plates,
>>allegedly as a means of identifying and locating women who appealed to
>>him. Did Shipp report what he told Simpson to others within the LAPD?
>
> you still miss the point, shipp was a go-fer to OJ, but shipp thought
he
was a friend. Just because shipp thought he was friend, doesnt make it so!
+++
>>It was Shipp who claimed that Simpson told him that he had dreamed of
>>killing Nicole the night after the murders and was afraid of taking a
>>lie detector test (Actually, early on in the proceedings, Simpson's
>>attorneys offered for Simpson to take a lie detector test if the
>>prosecution would allow it into evidence. Marcia Clark et al declined.
>
>Lucky for the Defense Marcia didn't take them up on that, it would
>have been quite embarrassing if the results were admitted and the jury
>saw how bad OJ did on the test.
>
> Again you assume the test was given. How many must say it
never got started before you will believe it ? Even the guy who was
supposed to give it said it wasnt a test. But you will just repeat and
repeat
and claim its factual.
+++
>>). Shipp was part of a milieu of off-duty policemen who used Simpson's
>>tennis courts. Did any of these police use those occasions to observe
>>the Rockingham residence for surveillance purposes?
>
>No but Oj obviously considered Ron a friend and even had Ron take care
>of security at Nicole's funeral. BTW what were they supposed to be
>surveilling?
>
> Thats your spin kathy, OJ clearly said shipp was never even
invited to have a sandwich with OJ. Is that how you treat a friend?
NO, its how you treat a hanger on or go-fer, (go for this, go for that)
There were several that had the same standing as shipp. But shipp
was the only one who took it upon himself to talk to nicole about
the time OJ and nocole were involved in the fight..
Big Al Walker
Robert C. Miller
Kathy wrote:
>
> Snips throughout for space
>
> On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:40:29 -0700, "Robert C. Miller"
> <robertcarlmi...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >case throughout its unfolding. When charges of racism surfaced against
> >Detective Fuhrman in the summer of 1994, the PPL rushed to his public
> >defense. At the end of the trial, when Fuhrman's character took hit
> >after hit, the union was put on the defensive. When, in the middle of
> >the trial, black Police Chief Willie Williams was caught in a scandal
>
> you were going to post your scenario of what you think happened that
> night.. You had a lot of things in this that are completely
> irrelevant, I've snipped most of them.
[If you read earlier posts, you'd understand. Police Chief
Williams could have investigated how the police handled the
evidence. He was essentially blackmailed by the OCID.]
>
> > The Police Protective League was also used by Mark Fuhrman
> >during his testimony to explain his whereabouts on the night of the
> >murders, claiming that at 8 p.m. on June 12th he "was in East of Palm
> >Desert in La Quinta Resort at a Protective League seminar" at the
> >League's barbeque. He said that he left the barbeque "somewhere around
> >8:00 o'clock just as the barbeque was starting," got home "about
> >ten-thirty," and was in bed "about 11:00, maybe a little later."
> >Unfortunately, the PPL barbeque was on Saturday afternoon, June 11.
> >There had been a general session meeting held on Sunday morning, from 8
> >to 11 a.m. Was Fuhrman still there at eight in the evening on June
>
> I have asked you and I have seen others ask you where is your proof it
> was on Saturday and not Sunday? Mark did say he also had a receipt
> from when he got gas, that shows the date and time on it. You keep
> saying it was Saturday yet I haven't seen you say how you came to that
> conclusion yet. And I'm surprised the defense didn't also bring it up
> that Mark had the dates mixed up. (I have a feeling Mark was right
> with his dates).
[Besides the absurdity of the claim that a group of PPL folks
hung around without any rooms in La Quinta and had a barbeque
(don't you find that peculiar?) at 8PM starting on Sunday
night, Steven Worth investigated it. He got in touch with
La Quinta. Apparently, after his book came to press Bosco
did the same. As far as the receipt, it was not from La Quinta,
it was from somewhere in LA. As I've said before, in itself
a receipt proves nothing. If a friend uses the card, less
than nothing. As far as the defense bringing things up, you
still don't get it. This was a show trial. The defense wasn't
not working to prove Simpson innocent. They were playing roles.]
> >12th, nine hours later, and if so, what was he doing there? Was he
> >meeting with people like Hank Hernandez? Or was the PPL providing a
> >phony alibi for Fuhrman? Considering the lengths to which the
> >prosecution rehearsed Fuhrman's testimony, did Marcia Clark know her
> >witness may have been purgering himself? If Fuhrman did lie about his
> >whereabouts on the evening of the murders, why?
>
> If he was telling the truth, what significance does it have to you?
[If he was telling the truth and he was at a barbeque on Sunday
night, starting at 8pm, attended by a bunch of cops who'd checked
out of their rooms at 11am, then we've got a real story.]
>
> > During the preliminary hearing, in justifying going to Simpson's
> >Rockingham residence, Fuhrman said: "I would be concerned with the
> >[younger Simpson] children and the ex-husband since they [Nicole and
> >O.J.] still had joint custory of the children." The average cop in the
> >West L.A. Police Station does not know the custody status of all the
> >separated and divorced couples in Brentwood. How could Fuhrman know
> >this information about the Simpson family? In fact, there had been
>
> Sometimes people will put two and two together, he's at Nicole's
> house, he sees mail from OJ, he sees pictures of OJ, there are kids in
> the house, some people may assume since this is OJ's ex-wife and that
> his picture is displayed for all to see, that they are on good terms.
[Well, first off, you can have pictures of people in your house
and they don't have joint custody of your kids. Secondly, I
thought the No-js have been saying that they weren't on good terms,
and that's why he allegedly killed her. In point of fact, he
should have no fucking idea of whether or not there was joint
custody.]
>
> >reports that Fuhrman had (at a police picnic several years prior to the
> >murders) bragged about Nicole Simpson’s "boob job" and had hinted that
> >he had an affair with her. One is reminded of the reports of
> >undercover cops having affairs with movie stars. Were undercover cops
> >having affairs with ex-wives of movie stars?
>
> Your using rumors and gossip as part of your theory now? Instead of
> facts? Once you do that people stop taking you seriously.
[I point to the use of cops having affairs with movies stars
in order to get information for the LAPD. I believe that was
in Dominick's book. There was another report that Fuhrman had
answered a call from Nicole after her separation about threatening
phone calls. I have no proof of that either. You are absolutely
right that it proves nothing. It is only suggestive, part of the
big picture.]
>
> > Whatever his relationship with Nicole Brown Simpson may have
> >been before June 12, 1994, Fuhrman would not have been the only cop to
> >be watching Nicole, her friend Faye Resnick, Ron Goldman and O.J. before
> >the murders. According to Freed and Briggs in Killing Time, "Members of
> >the Simpson circle were the subjects of narcotic squad surveillance on
> >an irregular basis." The Organized Crime Intelligence Division of the
> >LAPD would be a logical repository of any information collected by
> >narcotics agents on the Simpson crowd. This surveillance for possible
> >narcotics use or sales may have been based on hard evidence, but it
> >could also have been used as justification for police monitoring of
> >Simpson et al for other purposes.
>
> That is what Freed says, now what evidence does he have to back this
> up? You aren't taking him at his word without being shown some type of
> evidence to back this up are you? And what other purposes are you
> trying to allude to that the LAPD would be watching Simpson for? I
> myself have a problem with Freed, since I know he lied in his book,
> and also from the interview I saw him do on Burden of Proof.
[Ah, I like how you demand such a high standard of proof from me.
I guess that Freed could have written nothing but lies in this book.
There are matters that I think he would have had a better handle
on with the one talk I had with him and from radio interviews I've
heard, considering some of his past work, and there are a few
points subsequent to reading his book that are matters of dispute.
But, Kathy, I never hear you absolutely condemn Marcia Clark and
anything that pours out of her mouth because the three knocks
that Kato heard turn into one knock in her final summation and
her book. My point being that one error does not in itself
mean someone's word is absolutely no good. However, it may
suggest a closer inspection.]
> > After the murders, the LAPD surveilled O.J.'s son Jason and
> >others, allegedly, to find possible accomplices:
>
> Allegedly? Your proof of this is?
>
> >"Authorities admit constant observation of a number of potential
> >co-conspirators, including 'residence-monitoring,' which means having
> >undercover officers move into a domicile near the target. For that
> >assignment, our independent investigators learned, police officers who
> >had been active in the notorious covert operations against the Black
> >Panthers and other militant rights and peace groups in the sixties and
> >seventies were used in developing the LAPD strategy."
[Again, from Freed's book. Freed was a co-author of THE GLASSHOUSE
TAPES which went into great detail about police provocateurs.]
>
> What is the name of this so called authority(s)? Wait are you saying
> they had residence monitoring on people associated with OJ after the
> murders or are you talking about back when the Black Panthers were
> monitored?
[Sorry you didn't understand. Cops who were involved in intelligence
units back in the sixties and seventies, who were pimping the
United Slaves In America in an internecine battle with the Panthers,
those people were spying on Simpson's son and associates. That
should not surprise you.]
>
> > It should not be forgotten that Ron Shipp, who became part of
> >Simpson's circle, first as a domestic abuse specialist, and after he
>
> Shipp was a friend way before he agreed to talk to OJ for Nicole.
[When? Date when Shipp became a friend of OJ and Nicole.]
>
> >officially left the LAPD, by entering the acting field (Simpson had
> >helped get him work), was friends with Simpson's personal secretary,
> >Kathy Reina. Did he ever use his friendship with the Simpsons to gather
>
> Why do you have Cathy Randa's name completely wrong? [Because I'm human.]
>What type of
> information would the LAPD want from Simpson? Seems to me Shipp helped
> OJ out when it was needed concerning the LAPD.
[Not information from Simpson. Information about Simpson. He
was being set up, probably in part by one of the LAPD's intelligence
units.]
>
> >information for people within the LAPD? Shipp also claimed that Simpson
> >used him and his connections in order to trace cars' license plates,
> >allegedly as a means of identifying and locating women who appealed to
> >him. Did Shipp report what he told Simpson to others within the LAPD?
>
> Why was there others at LAPD who wanted to try and go out with the
> same ladies OJ was attempting to?
[Maybe Fuhrman. That was a joke. I think you're being intentionally
dense here.]
>
> >It was Shipp who claimed that Simpson told him that he had dreamed of
> >killing Nicole the night after the murders and was afraid of taking a
> >lie detector test (Actually, early on in the proceedings, Simpson's
> >attorneys offered for Simpson to take a lie detector test if the
> >prosecution would allow it into evidence. Marcia Clark et al declined.
>
> Lucky for the Defense Marcia didn't take them up on that, it would
> have been quite embarrassing if the results were admitted and the jury
> saw how bad OJ did on the test.
[I wrote this draft late in the summer and wasn't aware of what
Schiller was going to testify about the lie detector test. If I
had, I'd have gone into it. By the way, has anyone ever actually
seen the results of the test? What was the background of the guy
who gave him his test? Schiller, as I've mentioned earlier, has
a very curious history involving national security interests
and put very little faith in anything he might have said. ]
anyone
>
> >). Shipp was part of a milieu of off-duty policemen who used Simpson's
> >tennis courts. Did any of these police use those occasions to observe
> >the Rockingham residence for surveillance purposes?
>
> No but Oj obviously considered Ron a friend and even had Ron take care
> of security at Nicole's funeral. BTW what were they supposed to be
> surveilling?
[How can you say they weren't looking around, checking the layout
of the place? You don't know, you only presume to know. Is that
hard evidence? No, that's why there's a question mark at the end
of the sentence.]
>
> > The same milieu of police and intelligence that hovered around
> >O.J. Simpson and the murder victims in Brentwood had been found at the
> >edges of Robert Kennedy's assassination, the Tate-LaBianca murders, the
> >Symbionese Liberation Army, and the various COINTELPRO operations such
> >as the framing of Black Panther Geronimo Pratt.
> > Why didn't anyone in the press notice?
>
> Perhaps because what your trying to theorize has no bases in fact?
> What your basically saying here, is that some of these cops were on
> the force a long time, so if they dealt with a high profile case
> before then were in another high profile case, that means there was
> some type of conspiracy or relationship btwn the murders, when there
> wasn't. It kind of looks like your saying that each cop on the force
> should only be involved in one high profile case in their career,
> otherwise if they are on more than one, it makes it look like the
> murders are somehow inner weaved together, no matter that there is
> twenty year time span btwn the murders. BTW most of those cops that
> you allege were involved in the Simpson case also were involved in the
> other high profile cases, well a lot of them weren't even old enough
> to be on the police force when the other cases happened. So how can
> you say they are all tied in together?
[No, I'm not saying that. Go back are read it again. Maybe this
time something will sink in.]
Robert C. Miller
Kathy wrote:
>
> Robert when I asked for verification of what you said, I thought at
> the very least you would have supplied a URL to the information you
> had, not just saying so and so checked it out, and nothing else for
> verification that I could check out. The only thing I personally have
> seen was MF's testimony where he says it was on June 12th, and he left
> when the BBQ was starting at 8p.m. You also assumed when I said he had
> a receipt, that it was a receipt from the hotel, it wasn't, it was a
> receipt from a gas station when he stopped to get gas.
>
> I guess you can believe what you want to, yet I think your really
> expecting people to stretch reality in this case, when you are
> alleging almost every Gvt. Org is involved in the murder of Nicole and
> Ron.
>
> (Major snips for space)
>
> On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:18:44 -0700, "Robert C. Miller"
> <robertcarlmi...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >[Besides the absurdity of the claim that a group of PPL folks
> >hung around without any rooms in La Quinta and had a barbeque
> >(don't you find that peculiar?) at 8PM starting on Sunday
> >night, Steven Worth investigated it. He got in touch with
> >La Quinta. Apparently, after his book came to press Bosco
> >did the same. As far as the receipt, it was not from La Quinta,
> >it was from somewhere in LA. As I've said before, in itself
> >a receipt proves nothing. If a friend uses the card, less
> >than nothing. As far as the defense bringing things up, you
> >still don't get it. This was a show trial. The defense wasn't
> >not working to prove Simpson innocent. They were playing roles.]
>
> in the summer. The receipt was from a gas station not from the hotel,
> you assumed. How many people do you loan out your credit cards to?
>
> >[If he was telling the truth and he was at a barbeque on Sunday
> >night, starting at 8pm, attended by a bunch of cops who'd checked
> >out of their rooms at 11am, then we've got a real story.]
>
> what you say.
>
> >[Well, first off, you can have pictures of people in your house
> >and they don't have joint custody of your kids. Secondly, I
> >thought the No-js have been saying that they weren't on good terms,
> >and that's why he allegedly killed her. In point of fact, he
> >should have no fucking idea of whether or not there was joint
> >custody.]
>
> had been to the Simpsons before he knew they were married in the past.
> I bet the biggest clue for him along with the picture was the mail
> that had OJ's return address and Sydney telling them OJ was her
> father. Do you think that because two people don't get along, that the
> parent who has custody of the children will not have any pictures of
> their parent in the house? Point and fact he knew Nicole and OJ were
> together before, so it would be common sense to think they shared
> custody.
>
> >[I point to the use of cops having affairs with movies stars
> >in order to get information for the LAPD. I believe that was
> >in Dominick's book. There was another report that Fuhrman had
> >answered a call from Nicole after her separation about threatening
> >phone calls. I have no proof of that either. You are absolutely
> >right that it proves nothing. It is only suggestive, part of the
> >big picture.]
>
> proves nothing and you have nothing to back up your theories, all your
> basically doing is suggesting other things that might have happened,
> yet when asked for solid proof of what you say, you haven't shown me
> anything.
>
> >[Ah, I like how you demand such a high standard of proof from me.
>
> should be able to do the same.
>
> >I guess that Freed could have written nothing but lies in this book.
> >There are matters that I think he would have had a better handle
> >on with the one talk I had with him and from radio interviews I've
> >heard, considering some of his past work, and there are a few
> >points subsequent to reading his book that are matters of dispute.
>
> I asked don't you?
>
> >But, Kathy, I never hear you absolutely condemn Marcia Clark and
> >anything that pours out of her mouth because the three knocks
> >that Kato heard turn into one knock in her final summation and
> >her book. My point being that one error does not in itself
> >mean someone's word is absolutely no good. However, it may
> >suggest a closer inspection.]
>
> when Kato testified he heard three thumps, I also find it interesting
> that you think if some ones body should fall against a building a
> person would only hear one noise. So how do you explain what Kato
> heard? Was he also trying to frame OJ?
>
> >> > After the murders, the LAPD surveilled O.J.'s son Jason and
> >> >others, allegedly, to find possible accomplices:
> >>
> >> Allegedly? Your proof of this is?
>
>
> >[Sorry you didn't understand. Cops who were involved in intelligence
> >units back in the sixties and seventies, who were pimping the
> >United Slaves In America in an internecine battle with the Panthers,
> >those people were spying on Simpson's son and associates. That
> >should not surprise you.]
>
> Maybe they were witnesses when Jason had his problems and was sued?
> Or wasn't he under observation then? Was he only under observation
> when nothing was happening in his life? What dates was he under this
> observation, and how do we verify this isn't a fairy tale?
>
> >> > It should not be forgotten that Ron Shipp, who became part of
> >> >Simpson's circle, first as a domestic abuse specialist, and after he
> >>
> >> Shipp was a friend way before he agreed to talk to OJ for Nicole.
> >
> >[When? Date when Shipp became a friend of OJ and Nicole.]
>
> in 1978. Ron first met Nicole in 79-80.
>
> >> Why do you have Cathy Randa's name completely wrong? [Because I'm human.]
> >>What type of
> >> information would the LAPD want from Simpson? Seems to me Shipp helped
> >> OJ out when it was needed concerning the LAPD.
> >
> >[Not information from Simpson. Information about Simpson. He
> >was being set up, probably in part by one of the LAPD's intelligence
> >units.]
>
> to me you think it takes a long time. And to think OJ was so gullible
> he even did a appearance at the Christmas party as a favor to Ron, not
> realizing they were really gathering information from OJ so they could
> kill his wife and set him up! Of course why they would want to do this
> isn't answered yet.
>
> >[Maybe Fuhrman. That was a joke. I think you're being intentionally
> >dense here.]
>
>
> >> Lucky for the Defense Marcia didn't take them up on that, it would
> >> have been quite embarrassing if the results were admitted and the jury
> >> saw how bad OJ did on the test.
> >
> >[I wrote this draft late in the summer and wasn't aware of what
> >Schiller was going to testify about the lie detector test. If I
> >had, I'd have gone into it. By the way, has anyone ever actually
> >seen the results of the test? What was the background of the guy
> >who gave him his test? Schiller, as I've mentioned earlier, has
> >a very curious history involving national security interests
> >and put very little faith in anything he might have said. ]
>
> with him, it's why Bailey says they kept Shapiro on the defense team,
> if they would have fired him he had the lie detector test results and
> could have leaked them. Bailey also claims Shapiro destroyed the test
> results, but I had the impression Bailey didn't believe that.
>
> Dennis Nellany gave Oj the Polygraph, he was Ed Gelb's right hand man.
> I don't know much about them.
>
> >[How can you say they weren't looking around, checking the layout
> >of the place? You don't know, you only presume to know. Is that
> >hard evidence? No, that's why there's a question mark at the end
> >of the sentence.]
>
> What you haven't answered is why would they have OJ under
> surveillance. What was so special about OJ that some covert group
> would decide to pick him?
>
> >[No, I'm not saying that. Go back are read it again. Maybe this
> >time something will sink in.]
>
> far out theory I have seen, you have so many people involved that it's
> completely unbelievable. You have not said Why OJ was picked, you
> haven't said the names of these people involved, and I really don't
> think you believe any one is going to believe this, you wrote a story
> that's science fiction IMHO.
> Kathy
> http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories
> http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/ - Crime scene photo's
[You know, I've tried to e-mail you three times in the last day
and it gets sent back.]