English humour
Rasmus Munch
Could anyone help me with a detailed description of what characterises
English humour???
I would be very gratefull...
Tytte
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Before you buy.
Chica
innuendo. See even a children's forum such as pantomime, which has many
sexual references and men playing the female parts, women playing the mens.
eg. traditionally women play the roles of Peter Pan and Dick Whittington.
As for Python-related humour, the English do also move towards the surreal
rather more than the Americans. Spike Milligan (although he is actually
Irish), Python, Eddie Izzard, Peter Cook and Dudley Moore, all tended to use
surrealist aspects to their scripts.
Then you have the alternative comedians from the 1980's who tried to
demolish not only the political arena they were living in, but also the
structural basics of comedy. The Young Ones tore apart the sitcom with
completely pointless extra scenes involving a talking matchbox which said,
"don't look at me. I'm irrelevant", or a Russian couple huddled in their
cupboard spending a good 5 minutes talking about the winter as if they were
in a Chekov play. Or recently Bottom using Beckettian lines and
characterization whilst still using the puns and double-entendres of the
original English comedy.
Hope that helps. If you need to know anything else, please do ask.
s.
Rasmus Munch wrote in message <83897n$1v5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Madeleine BAROUKHEL-MOUREAU
I have a few questions : why did you say (in another post) that today's English
comedy was no good ?
Do you think the surrealist thread in British comedy is an offspring of
anti-victorian Carroll-type literature ? Why did American comedy divorce
surrealism, since it could come up with the Marx Brothers and Hellzappopin, or,
more loosely, Frank Capra (whom I'd put in this category, yes) ? How would you
rate American pythonism like SNL ?
Chica a écrit:
David Hoare
started in force by the man-god Spike Milligan
although the first real comedy of that vein is by the canadian Stephen
Leacock, in his 'nonsense' books. Never read - years out of print!!!
Heres a rough timeline
Carrol
Lear (kiddies stuff)
Leacock
Marx Brothers
The Goons Show
The Fringe/ Beyond the Fringe
It's a square world (Mike Bentine)
Q (GREATEST COMEDY EVER!!!!)
Not only........but also
The 1948 show
The Marty Feldman Comedy Machine
Python
Alternate comedy (99% junk, only blackadder is 'really' funny)
Back to crappy 60's sitcoms (Friends, Suddenly Susan et cetura)
Madeleine BAROUKHEL-MOUREAU wrote in message
<3857D675...@baroukhel.claranet.fr>...
Chica
fresh air to a tired medium, and Bottom with its dark leanings towards
Beckett and 2 men trapped in an eternal hell (see also Steptoe and Son).
America just got frightened of surrealism, I guess. The Marx Brothers were
fantastic, and the Three Stooges inspirational in their pointlessness. It's
all gone wrong there. I haven't actually seen Saturday Night Live so I
cannot comment, although the movie offsprings such as Wayne's World are
interesting, they are still character-based and little more than extended
skits and exaggerated cartoons.
There are some fine sitcoms (Frasier and the Simpsons) which take characters
to new levels with each episode and weave the storylines around them.
Friends tries, but keeps going into soap opera (Rachel and Ross, Ross and
Rachel - Oh SHUT UP and be done with it!!!!!). The majority of American
comedy s now safe and dull (any crappy sitcom, including Suddenly Susan and
Veronica's Closet) or loud and offensive just for the sake of it (Denis
Leary and Andrew Dice Clay). I was very impressed with the South Park movie.
Offensive and satirical in exactly the right doses. Much like Python in a
way, though not nearly as inspired or inspirational.
I personally am not British, so I have never understood Pantomime. I just
don't find it funny, seeing some old bloke dressed up as Widow Twanky and
shouting "it's behind you!" has never appealed to me. The repression of the
British (English especially) is evident in many forms. The fact they believe
you can only ever have real fun if you are drunk and the use of
double-entendres so as not to actually say the words or their explicit
meaning. Carry On films developed the double-entendre to new heights because
it HAD to to avoid censorship. Now they do it by choice as it has become a
part of the culture.
Anything else, or do I have to go and get me old textbooks out?
s.
John 'Shaggy' Kolesar
>Hi'
>
>Could anyone help me with a detailed description of what characterises
>English humour???
The funny bits.
>I would be very gratefull...
You're welcome.
Shagg.
--
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*** Head Administrator, Monty Python's Flying Talker ***
*** Drumline Instructor, Baltimore Ravens' Marching Band ***
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RxRex65
>>English humour???
>
>The funny bits.
I just walked (sillily) across the hall to share this great laugh with my
girlfriend, and found to my dismay Jim Carrey on "Conan O'Brien." This started
me thinking, Carrey is considered hilarious by American standards because he
falls down, makes exaggerated facial expressions and voices, etc. and is
therefore labeled "outrageous."
Carrey, I would think, would be considered average in British humour because
what plays well as "outrageous" on this side of the pond is tame compared to
what I've seen from the BBC et al. British humour knows what "outrageous" is
and takes it to a level that only a select few, lupin-hoarding,
blancmange-eating, godlike Americans can even begin to appreciate.
~Rx
"...well... I hesitate to call it a pram..."
Chica
England by Channel 4 and it was truly inspired. I know many compare The Fast
Show to Python, but I think Father Ted had more surreal moments and funnier
jokes, but in a sit-com format.
Has anyone seen it?
s.
RxRex65 wrote in message <19991218041254...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
Chica
Gigantic in fact, can't be underestimated enough. If you want to write some
sort of an essay on fart jokes in English humour, look up Bakhtin, it'll be
perfect.
s.
I doubt whether Jim Carrey, an inspired rough & tumble comedian, would
really be considered just average, whether or not he's ranked on the
British totem pole or not. I don't find Carrey outrageous at all--I
like the fact that he has an extraordinarily quick mind, and functions
like a Robin Williams cured of all his sentimental preciousness.
In any case, I'm perfectly glad to be an American and enjoy American
humor, even if 90% of it is crap.(See Saturday Night Live)
As for the issue of surrealistic craziness in American humor, there was
a time when American comedians were the leaders of the pack. In the
early decades of the century we had some of the greatest comedians on
Earth. I'm talking about a mega-genius like Buster Keaton--see his
shorts or "Sherlock Jr." to get a dose of what Pauline Kael termed
"Native American surrealism." There's the Marx Brothers, with stuff
like "Horsefeathers" or "Duck Soup." There's the great W.C Fields
(Withstanding one regular's mindless dismissal of him as a sexist
"swine." Look lady, W.C.Fields hated everybody, women and men
included.) in films like "Million Dollar Legs" or "Never Give a Sucker
an Honest Break." Besides all these, there was a genuine literary
tradition of crazy humor with writers like Robert Benchley, Thurber,
and S.J. Perelman.
Americans didn't get scared of crazy humor, it just became
unprofitable. During the 1940's comedy was in a pathetic state, but
crazy comedy had by then merged into screwball comedy--great examples
of which include "Bringing Up Baby," "The Awful Truth" and the work of
the great Preston Sturges ("The Miracle of Morgan's Creek," "The Lady
Eve," etc.)
Nowadays most American comedy exists as either weak-kneed,
non-offensive sitcoms or boring stand-up comedy. Film comedies are
often in not much of a better state. Jim Carrey for example has never
been properly handled--the Ace Ventura movies were too crude, Liar Liar
was too sentimental, and The Truman Show too heavy-handed. His upcoming
biopic of Andy Kaufman(There won't be a British equal of him anytime
soon) looks promising.There are bright spots--such as genuinely
outrageous films like "There's Something about Mary." (Certainly more
outageous than "The Full Monty.")
There are a few bright spots on tv as well. Late night shows like David
Letterman's or Conan O'Brian's are often hit-and miss in quality, but
at their best hit a genuine high of demented fun. "South Park"--the
only tv show in history to feature a dancing penis--walks a thin line
between stupid vulgarity and filthy satirical brilliance, and an old
war-horse like "The Simpsons" seems to get more surreal with each
passing year--it's still the best comedy on network TV.(And I haven't
even discussed a brilliant cable sketch comedy like Mr.Show)
So while American comedy is not at the level it should be, we have no
need to apologize for it or its history. The British have the world's
best TV system and some of the best TV comedies ever created. America's
TV system is fed by advertisers and is mostly crap, but there are
nuggets in the wasteland just as well.
And our British friends should remind themselves that outside of their
classic Ealing comedies and the Python films, there's no question about
which country has produced a superior number of cinematic comedies both
in quantity and quality.
IA
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John Saleeby
proximity to Mexico and it's cuisine they are considerably less amusing.
www.theamericanjerk.com
Philippe Boite
I wish all the sitcoms were that funny.
Fifi the Belgiam
Chica <lit...@globalnet.co.uk> a écrit dans le message :
83g5jf$1q0$1...@gxsn.com...
> Do they show 'Father Ted' in America? It's an Irish programme shown in
> England by Channel 4 and it was truly inspired. I know many compare The
Chica
sitcoms (except Father Ted, which is strictly speaking irish so not British
at all). I adore The Simpsons, Frasier and the remarkable Larry Sanders Show
(sadly deceased). Jim Carrey is a lot more talented than people give him
credit for. So is Robin Williams (see the Fisher King or some of his earlier
stand-up before his career took a VERY bad turn into sentimental glook).
s.
QQ wrote in message <1415c574...@usw-ex0101-003.remarq.com>...
Laureatesmile
>I wish all the sitcoms were that funny.
>
Ever seen MST3K on show it yesterday on Sci-Fi, I can't stop laughing at the
movie
NightRunner 11
Actually, now I find myself unable to start laughing. I hope they can
do a movie by one of the post-Pythons (especially Eric Idle), then I'd
laugh hysterically no matter what those guys said about it. It used to
be different, back when I didn't care about the storyline in the show as
much as the jokes they made.
NR11, TBLHS, GoG, BSCmQ, TOS, SAL33, BI
Madeleine BAROUKHEL-MOUREAU
QQ a écrit:
> There's the great W.C Fields
> (Withstanding one regular's mindless dismissal of him as a sexist
> "swine." Look lady, W.C.Fields hated everybody, women and men
> included.) in films like "Million Dollar Legs" or "Never Give a Sucker
> an Honest Break."
Too easy, m'lud. I could send you a full list of so-called misanthropists whose
poor soft hearts were soooo hurt and soooo disappointed by human nature, and who
are really 60 year old arrogant baby misogynists who never had the time nor the
will to ask themselves one or two fundamental questions, and found nothing
better than misanthropy as an alibi.Real misanthropists are grounded on the
rejection of human nature, globally, absolutely, and universally. They reproch
men and women with the same things. Or they're just angry at life or God. See
Cioran. See Lardner. See Pessoa. See Bierce.
> And our British friends should remind themselves that outside of their
> classic Ealing comedies and the Python films, there's no question about
> which country has produced a superior number of cinematic comedies both
> in quantity and quality.
>
Yes there is. I can't see the point in such phallic discussions over which
country can piss comedy further or higher than the other one. America is mainly
England's prodigal heir anyway !
RxRex65
"Are You Being Served" is/was considered comedic pablum. This struck me as a
bit odd, since it's rather popular in re-runs here (though perhaps just
*because* it's British) and I enjoy it very much. On the other hand, it's not
hard to see that it's hardly humour in the MPFC vein. So I guess it's all quite
relative and subjective and inconsequential and flatulent and obsequious and
laterally differential and... :::GAAAAK:::
~Rx
"Even the police began to sit up and take notice."
Laureatesmile
heads off and I don't find them funny
NightRunner 11
Laureatesmile wrote:
>
> My parents watch crap like Coarl Burnnett and Mama's Family and laugh there
> heads off and I don't find them funny
Oh c'mon. How old are you, that you can't appreciate humor like Carol
Burnett? I'm still under my parents' wings and I am able to appreciate
even subtle British humor. Then again, I also use correct grammar in
typing emails and even IMs, so maybe I'm just different. (Wow, took me
17 years to figure that out with everyone telling it to me.)
And what exactly DO you laugh really hard at?
SMA showing signs of recovering
Andrea
What about *Canadian* comedy? the Kids in the Hall, Twitch City, etc. It also
seems to be an entirely different brand of humor.
"Wait a mintue!! It's me!! *That's* why you haven't called at home in 3 years!
You're trying to hide your *love* for me!! Wait a minute....you're *all* in
love with me!!" - Mark McKinney, KITH
*******
cance...@aol.com
YuhMinL
Laureatesmile
What about Tom Green, Second City, Red Green, etc.
Chica
hour of the evening. They made a film, 'Brain Candy' which looked
magnificent, but I couldn't find it here and it was never given a cinema
release.
Did anyone see that film? What was it like?
s.
YuhMinL wrote in message <19991227115207...@ng-ce1.aol.com>...
Brian Shields
kids dfinately was inspired, but they are distinctly different. The kids in
the hall have strange recurring characters in normal situations. Sometimes
just one odd character.... the guy with Cabbage for a head... Buddy, the
chicken lady, that kid with the green hat... (forgot his name)... whereas
Python mainly had strange situations with one strange person and another odd
person adding as a catylist. parrot sketch, cheese shop sketch, etc...
python did do alot of sketches with more than two characters... but the
basics remained ... serious guy, catylist, odd situation.. and the rest
played supporting roles. Then again, Python, in my mind, is the founder of
sketch comedy, so many things that they have done will be considered basic
ans standard.
Spamlge IV (Mr., trying to figure out this new newsreader)
"YuhMinL" <yuh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991227115207...@ng-ce1.aol.com...
Andrea
>I loved that show, but in England they used to put it on at a most ungodly
>hour of the evening. They made a film, 'Brain Candy' which looked
>magnificent, but I couldn't find it here and it was never given a cinema
>release.
>
>Did anyone see that film? What was it like?
>
Brain Candy....had its moments. But even though i am in love with the Kids in
the Hall, I really didn't care for it. The main plot (about developing a pill
for happiness) was good, and made you think, but wasn't particuarly *funny*.
The Kids stayed mostly in one role throughout the film. I think it might have
been better if while during the main storyline, went off to the side for small,
mostly unrelated sketches. But that's just my opinion. I don't know, maybe it
grows on you.
-Andrea
*******
Laureatesmile
Brian Shields
Spamlge IV (Mr.)
"Laureatesmile" <laurea...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991228161028...@ng-cu1.aol.com...
Anastasia
>
> i can see the urn being thrown across the ring now....
>