Was Robotech more successful than Macross?
martian dreams
I just read the article that claimed Carl Macek's Robotech took a relatively
successful cartoon series in Japan (Macross) and made it into a world wide
phenomena.
Is this true? I would tend to believe that claim. The most important thing
Macek probably did was to dub the cartoon in English --- thereby making it
more attractive to the English speaking world. Purists hate dubs... but the
original subtitled version would've driven Robotech's target demographic (ie
Children) away.
But then the article claims that Robotech was more popular than Macross even
in Japan. Was this true?
Chris George
to spawn tons of video games, 2 sequels, many great toy lines which are
still being made today, movies, countless music albums, and the list goes
on. Robotech made enough to spawn a crappy comic book series, the Perfect
Collection CD, Matchbox toys, and lame novels. The sequel to Robotech and
the movie were both scrapped, probably because it wasn't going to earn back
any investments. Of course there are new Robotech toys on the way, but I'll
bet that more Macross fans are going to be buying those than Robotech fans.
I would tend to think Macross made more money.
Chris George
"martian dreams" <martiandr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9gqura$nkc$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
Yoshi
>in Japan. Was this true?
>
Absolutely not.
It's just HG's propaganda to sell their DVDs :
http://www.macrossworld2.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//topic.cgi?forum=17&topic=1
27&start=0
http://www.macrossworld2.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//topic.cgi?forum=17&topic=1
27&start=30
---
Yoshi
Jared Hoberock
portions, which weren't popular in Japan.
J
martian dreams <martiandr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9gqura$nkc$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
Dosun1
>
Depends on how you define success. Macross has spawned other animation series
like Plus and 7 while Robotech couldn't get Sentinels off the ground.
>I just read the article that claimed Carl Macek's Robotech took a relatively
>successful cartoon series in Japan (Macross) and made it into a world wide
>phenomena.
This is where HG suceeded, they were better at thinking globally and marketing
their product to a worldwide audience. However, they have no real creative
ability. Left on their own they can't produce anything.
AidanK
"Jared Hoberock" did enscribe...
> I think those claims are referring to the Southern Cross and Mospeada
> portions, which weren't popular in Japan.
Uhm, Mospeada was rather popular in Japan...for good reasons, I might add
(Yoshitaka Amano...'nuf said).
SC, however, did do rather poorly....also for good reasons (the helicopter
mecha...'nuf said =P)
--AK
hhtp://www.genericanime.net
Keith
Let's weigh the success of both series.
-Macross: Had it's episode count extended due to the huge success of its
original 27 episodes.
-Robotech: Had it's intended sequel halted in early production because
investors pulled out.
-Macross: Had a huge budgeted movie based on it's story, which today remains
hugely popular, and some of the best animation ever.
-Robotech: Tried to turn Megazone 23 Episode 1 into a movie which bombed & only
got released on tape in Europe.
-Macross: Has spawned many follow ups (both continuity & non-continuity)
including DYRL, Flash Back 2012, Macross Plus, Macross Plus Movie Ediiton,
Macross 7, & Macross II.
-Robotech: Has had "2" attempts at a sequel now die in production. Both
Robotech II: The Sentinels, & Robotech 3000.
-Macross has had many video games (some misunderstood) based on it released
continually over the past 20 years
-Robotech: No games yet, keep dying in production.
-Macross: Has had several hugely internationaly popular toy lines released
again over the past 20 years. All highly collectable & saught after for much
money.
-Robotech: Its toyline was so bad that it played a major factor in funding
being pulled from Robotech II: The Sentinels. Toys not worth the microwaved
plastic they were melted from.
-Macross has had "many" soundtracks released from "all" its series, audio tape,
Vinyl, & CD. as well as many artbooks.
-Robotech: Soem vinyl & 1 2 disc CD set, as well as some laughable comics & bad
novelizations. All of which again not worth the material they're
printed/recorded on.
-Macross: To this very day remains a highly influential & popular force in
Japan, only truly topped by Gundam.
-Robotech: Has fan "nostalgia" that isn't really strong enough to cover up the
low quality.
And Finally
-Macross: Has been screwed internationally outside of Japan because of
Tatsunoko making a bad deal.
-Robotech: Apparently has a very good propganda machine.
So you tell me, which is more "popular" ?
~Keith
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kanashii dekigotoga blue-ni someta kokoromo
Tenshi no enogu de nurikaeruyo
Omoinomamani -Lynn Minmay
~~~
ORE NO UTA WO KIITE! -Basara Nekki
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mecha-Man
Well, from what I read, Macross was a huge success in Japan. It was considered
one of the greatest anime television series of all time. On top of that, DYRL
was a blockbuster smash that inspired countless animators including myself (I'm
attending an animation college in the state I live in).
-Fory, The Mysterious Lurker
"But who here hasn't wished that they could fix politics simply by jumping in a
giant mecha and going to Washington?"
Godmars
@aol.com says...
Keith, you SERIOUSLY need to post this on the Robotech message boards.
--
God
Yoshi
Yeah, that's a good an accurate comparison you did here.
You should post on RT.com, AND also on the MW board ^^
---
Yoshi
Apollo Leader
http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=142970&forumid=12
Keith is more then welcomed to post his version on the Warzone.;)
--
Apollo Leader
There are three definite things in life: death, taxes, and Harmony Gold
screwing over Macross fans.
"Godmars" <ple...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.159bed751...@news.rcn.com...
Fokker
I haven't posted here in about two years, but I always love when a Macross
fan gives well-reasoned (and obvious) evidences that Macross is FAAAR
superior to the utter shit we remember as Robotech, so I just had to give
the figurative "Amen" to that...
You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the nostalgia that
can't mask the poor quality. "Nostalgia" is the only single good point
remaining in Robotech, but like you said, not good enough. I like many
was first introduced to *all* anime through Robotech (and a short time
before by Voltron) when I was sixteen, but when I realized the massive
difference in overall quality between the original Japanese medium, and
VERY poor american attempts at "localization", (the term used to describe
artistic butchery), I kissed Robotech goodbye, cursed the day Carl Macek
was born, and resolved never to watch anything like it ever again. (Damn,
that was one hell of a run-on sentence. Sorry... >_<)
Anyway, keep it up, Keith! And no offense, but I liked this post a lot
better
than the ones with the profanity and personal attacks... (Just my opinion...
^_^)
--Fokker
"Keith" <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010621112534...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
Chris Fullbright
I saw it in Dallas, Texas. I think we were the only market to get it. From what I
remember, it sucked.
Keith
>
>--
>God
Are you kidding? The last time I did that it took us months to get rid of Cav.
>Actually, Keith the Robotech Movie was released in the THEATRE here in the
>states.
>I saw it in Dallas, Texas. I think we were the only market to get it. From
>what I
>remember, it sucked.
Nope, that wasn't a release, that was a test screening only held in Texas, and
the reason it didn't get released anywhere else were the bad reviews & parents
pulling their kids out.
Legioss
> >Keith, you SERIOUSLY need to post this on the Robotech message boards.
> >
> >--
> >God
>
> Are you kidding? The last time I did that it took us months to get rid of
Cav.
>
> >Actually, Keith the Robotech Movie was released in the THEATRE here in
the
> >states.
> >I saw it in Dallas, Texas. I think we were the only market to get it.
From
> >what I
> >remember, it sucked.
>
> Nope, that wasn't a release, that was a test screening only held in Texas,
and
> the reason it didn't get released anywhere else were the bad reviews &
parents
> pulling their kids out.
>
It was shown in other states and other countries, and got a release on PAL
tape in the UK. Robotech The Movie was in Cannon's catalog. Any theatre
could ask for it and show it.
Legioss
> Let's weigh the success of both series.
>
> -Macross: Had it's episode count extended due to the huge success of its
> original 27 episodes.
> -Robotech: Had it's intended sequel halted in early production because
> investors pulled out.
>
You're talking about a 36 episode series and an 85 episode series. Macross
got 9 more episodes added on to 27. Robotech had 85 episodes and 75 minutes
more added on. You could make any conclusion you want out of that, and
that's what you're doing, turning the ambiguity of these meaningless numbers
into some kind of proof against Robotech. This isn't "weighing" the series.
> -Macross: Had a huge budgeted movie based on it's story, which today
remains
> hugely popular, and some of the best animation ever.
> -Robotech: Tried to turn Megazone 23 Episode 1 into a movie which bombed &
only
> got released on tape in Europe.
>
So whichever series gets the best adjectives in its description from you,
wins.
> -Macross: Has spawned many follow ups (both continuity & non-continuity)
> including DYRL, Flash Back 2012, Macross Plus, Macross Plus Movie Ediiton,
> Macross 7, & Macross II.
> -Robotech: Has had "2" attempts at a sequel now die in production. Both
> Robotech II: The Sentinels, & Robotech 3000.
>
You already mentioned DYRL in your movie comparision. Flashback 2012 is
mostly old footage with music videos. Where are the recycled footage videos
from Robotech to compare here, like the two Matchbox episodes and Codename
Robotech? Macross Plus and Macross Plus Movie Edition are listed seperately
just to make your Macross section look bigger. Oh, now you proudly wave
around Macross II when you need it. Any other time it sucks.
You know the circumstances surrounding the failure of Robotech II: The
Sentinels. You imply here that these shows would have been completed if they
were "better". Robotech II wasn't completed because the money wasn't there
anymore. It wasn't just Matchbox, it was the dollar to yen rate in Japan.
Robotech 3000 was stopped by Harmony Gold because Netter Digital didn't do a
good enough job on it. At the San Diego Comic Con last year Harmony Gold
announced their plans to continue the project but with cel animation. That
decision isn't really a failure for Robotech 3000. Robotech will be better
because of it.
> -Macross has had many video games (some misunderstood) based on it
released
> continually over the past 20 years
> -Robotech: No games yet, keep dying in production.
>
So far, Macross games have been more successful. TDK was showing their first
Robotech game off at E3.
> -Macross: Has had several hugely internationaly popular toy lines released
> again over the past 20 years. All highly collectable & saught after for
much
> money.
> -Robotech: Its toyline was so bad that it played a major factor in funding
> being pulled from Robotech II: The Sentinels. Toys not worth the
microwaved
> plastic they were melted from.
>
Again you're just making Macross look better with vague words.
Macross was "internationally popular" (but you don't expect anyone to think
about why)
while the Robotech toy line was "bad". (You can say anything is "bad". It
doesn't prove anything.)
20 years (It's 2002 already? and they had toys out in October 1982 when The
Macross Special was aired?)
Highly collectible, saught after, much money (vague, opinions)
You say that the Robotech toyline quality (Matchbox's fault) was a "major
factor" in Matchbox pulling out their funding. You forgot to mention that
the Robotech toyline had Japanese Macross and Mospeada toys in it too.
"Toys not worth the microwaved plastic they were melted from" (your opinion
that you're trying to use as evidence of Robotech's lack of success)
> -Macross has had "many" soundtracks released from "all" its series, audio
tape,
> Vinyl, & CD. as well as many artbooks.
Robotech had soundtracks and artbooks too. I don't see how the Macross ones
are any more "successful" other than that you spelled this part correctly.
> -Robotech: Soem vinyl & 1 2 disc CD set, as well as some laughable comics
& bad
> novelizations. All of which again not worth the material they're
> printed/recorded on.
>
You put incorrect spelling in the Robotech section to make Robotech look
cheap and a mention of a "1 2 disc CD set".
"laughable", "bad" (this kind of "proof" again)
Keith decides how much the novels are worth. Don't think. Let Keith think
for you.
> -Macross: To this very day remains a highly influential & popular force in
> Japan, only truly topped by Gundam.
Why are we comparing what you think of Macross here? I thought you were
going to show how successful Macross is compared to how successful Robotech
is. We already know you like Macross better.
> -Robotech: Has fan "nostalgia" that isn't really strong enough to cover up
the
> low quality.
>
Robotech gets an opinion about why people watch it and we are told it isn't
"strong enough" (who cares). You say Robotech has "low quality" (vague).
> And Finally
>
> -Macross: Has been screwed internationally outside of Japan because of
> Tatsunoko making a bad deal.
You don't like Tatsunoko's decision to license Macross to Harmony Gold. This
makes Macross more successful? (We've lost the success comparison at this
point and gone off on a tangent.)
> -Robotech: Apparently has a very good propganda machine.
>
It's spelled "propaganda", even in the Robotech section of your comparison.
:)
You think Harmony Gold is lying (about?) and that they're good at it. This
makes Robotech less successful?
> So you tell me, which is more "popular" ?
>
I don't know. In Japan, Macross is more popular. Robotech seems to be more
popular on the world wide web, looking at the amount of people that post to
the message boards. More people post to the Macross newsgroups though than
the Robotech newsgroups. We may know by next year if Robotech or Macross
DVDs will sell more, and if Robotech or Macross toys will sell more. Also,
we're still waiting on new series for both.
Chris Fullbright
advertised in the Dallas Morning News, and I went and saw it. Bleh.
Chris
Chris Fullbright
the Macross toys were MUCH superior to the robotech toyline. The only part of
the robotech toyline that were actually japanese that I remember were some of
the die-cast Next Generation (repackaged Mospeada toys) and the little Die Cast
"Destroid" toys. All the rest of them were Produced for the American and World
Market under the "Robotech" license. They were cool to a 8-10 yr old, but if
you compare them now the Robotech toys suck ballz.
And its not about which ones get good adjectives from Keith, Fact is that
Macross had successful sequels, Robotech did not.
Chris George
(forgot the scale) were also Bandai toys repackaged into Matchbox toys.
They still have the Bandai stamp on the bottom of them too. :)
Chris George
"Chris Fullbright" <cful...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B337554...@bellsouth.net...
Mark Nguyen
Chris George wrote:
>
> Actually, the large plastic Destroids as well as the SDF-1 plastic/die cast
> (forgot the scale) were also Bandai toys repackaged into Matchbox toys.
> They still have the Bandai stamp on the bottom of them too. :)
>
> Chris George
As I recall, there were also some cute little transformable SD Valkyries
that were repackaged as Robotech...
Mark
Chris Fullbright
I remember the little ones, that came on a blister Card. The only "large"
Destroid I remember was the MAC II / Monster, but that one was big and in a
biiig box because the destroid line was all the same scale. I left out the
SDF-1 toy on accident.
FoRTiNbRas926
>From: "Legioss" astps...@gci.net
>Date: 2001.06.22 3:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <tj668l4...@corp.supernews.com>
>You're talking about a 36 episode series and an 85 episode series. Macross
>got 9 more episodes added on to 27. Robotech had 85 episodes and 75 minutes
>more added on. You could make any conclusion you want out of that, and
>that's what you're doing, turning the ambiguity of these meaningless numbers
>into some kind of proof against Robotech. This isn't "weighing" the series.
The difference is that Macross had episodes added on because of it's success
but Robotech added episodes not because of their popularity, but to fit the
series into American regulations for a tv show. The numbers Keith mentioned
show how Macross' episodes prove it's popularity while Robotech's number of
episodes don't.>
>> -Macross: Had a huge budgeted movie based on it's story, which today
>remains
>> hugely popular, and some of the best animation ever.
>> -Robotech: Tried to turn Megazone 23 Episode 1 int
>to a movie which bombed &
>only
>> got released on tape in Europe.
>>
>So whichever series gets the best adjectives in its description from you,
>wins.
You could use whatever adjectives you want, but the truth is, Macross' movie,
DYRL, did well and Robotech's didn't. That's it
.>Oh, now you proudly wave
>around Macross II when you need it. Any other time it sucks.
>
He's not waving Macross II around, he is just mentioning it because it is a
follow-up (non-continuity).
>That
>decision isn't really a failure for Robotech 3000. Robotech will be better
>because of it.
I really have a hard time believing that. But that's just me.
>> -Macross: Has had several hugely internationaly popular toy lines released
>> again over the past 20 years. All highly collectable & saught after for
>much
>> money.
>Highly collectible, saught after, much money (vague, opinions)
These aren't just vague opinions, Macross toys, such as the Takatoku valkyries
from the 80's are very expensive today. Just try to buy one yourself without
spending over 200-300 dollars. Sometimes even way more than that.
I think that what Keith said in his post is right. Don't get angry because you
may prefer Robotech to Macross, but you have to realize that Macross is more
popular-wise in money, fans, products and animation than Robotech.
-James AKA Fortinbras926
"loves to lurk"
Paul Santa Cruz
<cful...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Hm, I dont remember any "large" plastic Destroids...
>
>I remember the little ones, that came on a blister Card. The only "large"
>Destroid I remember was the MAC II / Monster, but that one was big and in a
>biiig box because the destroid line was all the same scale. I left out the
>SDF-1 toy on accident.
>
They did make some plastic ones that stood about 8 inches high. My
cousin had the Raidar X. Destoid.
-Paul
Chris Fullbright
high......okay, maybe not so little, but they werent huge....
Chris George
Chris George
"Mark Nguyen" <mng...@hot-ish-mail.com> wrote in message
news:3B33910D...@hot-ish-mail.com...
Chris George
tall) that has the Bandai stamp on the foot, but the box only says "Harmony
Gold." It doesn't say matchbox anywhere. Ooops.
Chris George
"Chris Fullbright" <cful...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B33A872...@bellsouth.net...
Paul Santa Cruz
>You know what....I'm sorta wrong. I have a destroid toy (about 9 inches
>tall) that has the Bandai stamp on the foot, but the box only says "Harmony
>Gold." It doesn't say matchbox anywhere. Ooops.
>
>Chris George
If I'm not mistaken, there were products put out that had a Matchbox
label, while other only said Harmony Gold. I'm not quite sure why this
happened. I do have to be honest- The Robotech action figures couldn't
hold the jocks of my GI Joes. That's why they didn't sell- they look
horrible and are poorly put together. Any objective Robotech fan could
tell you this.
The only cool Robotech action figure I can think of is the Scott
Bernard one (and olny with his helmet on). I've got one sitting on his
Cyclone in front of me right now.
-Paul, whose coolest action figure still has to be his Captain Harlock
up on his desk
Keith
>tape in the UK. Robotech The Movie was in Cannon's catalog. Any theatre
>could ask for it and show it.
Prove that it was shown in any state other than Texas. And I already said that
it was shleffed off to Europe & put out on video. It was never released on
video in the U.S.
>You're talking about a 36 episode series and an 85 episode series. Macross
>got 9 more episodes added on to 27. Robotech had 85 episodes and 75 minutes
>more added on. You could make any conclusion you want out of that, and
>that's what you're doing, turning the ambiguity of these meaningless numbers
>into some kind of proof against Robotech. This isn't "weighing" the series.
No, I'm talking about a 36 episode series VS a patchwork series comprised of
pre-produced already existing series. There were "no" original episodes
produced for Robotech other than the Sentinels which was seperate in itself and
handled as a sequel. And no, the patchwork Southern Cross episode doesn't count
as new either since it was pieced together from already existing episodes.
Robotech didn't have its episode run extended, or any original episodes period.
The weight is in Macross's favor, it was so successful that it has its episode
run extended, period.
>So whichever series gets the best adjectives in its description from you,
>wins.
Are you even remotely trying to deny the facts? Does your robotech fanaticism
run that deep? Are you fucking insane?
>You already mentioned DYRL in your movie comparision. Flashback 2012 is
>mostly old footage with music videos. Where are the recycled footage videos
>from Robotech to compare here, like the two Matchbox episodes and Codename
>Robotech? Macross Plus and Macross Plus Movie Edition are listed seperately
>just to make your Macross section look bigger. Oh, now you proudly wave
>around Macross II when you need it. Any other time it sucks.
DYRL fits here as well, FB 2012 is 5-6 minutes of new footage concluding the
story of Macross, and as such still ranks as a sequel, Macross Plus & Macross
Plus Movie Edition are two entirely seperate entities, and I actually left out
Macross Dynamite 7. No need to make Macross look bigger, it is bigger. And
while Macross II is a piece of non-continuity crap, it was still commissioned
as a sequel, no proud waving about it. Again, are you honestly trying to deny
the facts?
>You know the circumstances surrounding the failure of Robotech II: The
>Sentinels. You imply here that these shows would have been completed if they
>were "better". Robotech II wasn't completed because the money wasn't there
>anymore. It wasn't just Matchbox, it was the dollar to yen rate in Japan.
The Dollar/Yen rate didn't stop the Transformers from being animated, nor the
Transformes movie, or any other licensed project of the time. The Sentinels was
canned because there was no belief in it, the toyline bombed, and it sucked. It
was hurried off to video to scrounge up whatever cash could be grabbed from
fanatics such as yourself.
>Robotech 3000 was stopped by Harmony Gold because Netter Digital didn't do a
>good enough job on it. At the San Diego Comic Con last year Harmony Gold
>announced their plans to continue the project but with cel animation. That
>decision isn't really a failure for Robotech 3000. Robotech will be better
>because of it.
Pssst, Netter Digital was already dead at that point, they went under producing
the Sentinels, as many companeis tend to do while doing Robotech projects (I'm
still waiting for ADV to go under). They would have had to have started all
over again from scratch with another company, and Robotech 3000 had already
recieved bad reviews several months before the San Diego Comic con. Admitting
it was crap & saying they were moving on was just to cover their tales. Had
Netter not gone under, you'd probably be trying to sit through Robotech 3000
right now.
>So far, Macross games have been more successful. TDK was showing their first
>Robotech game off at E3.
Incorrect, the first Robotech game had been shown 2 years ago (3 years?) at E3,
just prior to being canned because Gametek went under (another one bites the
dust under the Robotech curse). Mattel INteractive has also fallen prey to
going under while supposedly working on a Robotech license game. TDK is a
company that produces VHS cassettes, if you want to trust game producing in
their hands, go right on ahead. Software however is vaporware untill it ships
to stores.
>Again you're just making Macross look better with vague words.
Vagiue words? Have you seen the Robotech toyline?
>Macross was "internationally popular" (but you don't expect anyone to think
>about why)
>while the Robotech toy line was "bad". (You can say anything is "bad". It
>doesn't prove anything.)
>20 years (It's 2002 already? and they had toys out in October 1982 when The
>Macross Special was aired?)
>Highly collectible, saught after, much money (vague, opinions)
>You say that the Robotech toyline quality (Matchbox's fault) was a "major
>factor" in Matchbox pulling out their funding. You forgot to mention that
>the Robotech toyline had Japanese Macross and Mospeada toys in it too.
>"Toys not worth the microwaved plastic they were melted from" (your opinion
>that you're trying to use as evidence of Robotech's lack of success)
Repackaged Bandai & Gakken toys do not count as being under the Robotech
toyline, they're just repackagies of pre-existing toys. The Robotech toyline
was those mutilated pieces of plastic crap that you could melt any G.I. Joe in
the oven or microwave to resemble. You can "vaguely" try to deny the facts all
you want, but as has been shown, no one is biting.
>Robotech had soundtracks and artbooks too. I don't see how the Macross ones
>are any more "successful" other than that you spelled this part correctly.
Then open your eyes. Sheer number & continued support & success of Macross
sountracks & artbooks vastly outshadows any released for Robotech. The DYRL
Goldbook alone is the pinacle of artbook collectors value. For a full listing
of Macross soundtracks released (soundtracks & drama albums), see the Macross
compendium & Macross World.
>You put incorrect spelling in the Robotech section to make Robotech look
>cheap and a mention of a "1 2 disc CD set".
>"laughable", "bad" (this kind of "proof" again)
>Keith decides how much the novels are worth. Don't think. Let Keith think
>for you.
You are fucking insane aren't you? Go right now up to ebay, or any comics shop,
& see how much you can find the novels sold for. Hell, even Robotech fans can't
decide on whether they like the novels or not. And you fail to mention any
soundtrack release other than that 2 disc CD set. I don't need to make Robotech
look cheap, it "IS" cheap.
>Why are we comparing what you think of Macross here? I thought you were
>going to show how successful Macross is compared to how successful Robotech
>is. We already know you like Macross better.
Why are you denying the "fact" that Macross is a powefully influencial force in
Japan, only truly topped by Gundam?
>Robotech gets an opinion about why people watch it and we are told it isn't
>"strong enough" (who cares). You say Robotech has "low quality" (vague).
An opinion? Go anywhere, and 90% of the time you'll find people saying the
reason they'd even think abuot purchasing the Robotech DVD's are because of
"nostalgic" value. Just because you choose to deny the low quaity of Robotech,
does not make it any less there, let alone "vague."
>You don't like Tatsunoko's decision to license Macross to Harmony Gold. This
>makes Macross more successful? (We've lost the success comparison at this
>point and gone off on a tangent.)
Correction, you're not just fucking insane, you're stupid too. The bad handling
of Tatsunoko's licensing Macross to HG has hindered its international success,
but not stopped it, being hte point.
>It's spelled "propaganda", even in the Robotech section of your comparison.
>:)
>You think Harmony Gold is lying (about?) and that they're good at it. This
>makes Robotech less successful?
Robotech isn't successful, that's the point, HG just tries to make mindless
drones such as yourself "think" it is.
>I don't know. In Japan, Macross is more popular. Robotech seems to be more
>popular on the world wide web, looking at the amount of people that post to
>the message boards. More people post to the Macross newsgroups though than
>the Robotech newsgroups. We may know by next year if Robotech or Macross
>DVDs will sell more, and if Robotech or Macross toys will sell more. Also,
>we're still waiting on new series for both.
The Robotech news group has 3 kinds of posters. Fanastics such as yourself,
idiots that ask the same questions over & over again & act as if they're in the
2nd grade, and spammers. Macross DVD's already have a comfirmed near 15,000
sales, Robotech DVD's have bad reviews out the wazoo, from bad frame jumping,
to actual full digital breakup of brand new disc's. And that's not counting the
dust, scratches, & low quality master used for them. The current Macross
toyline is again very successful, the Robotech toyline is currently comprised
of low quality trinkets, and it's very doubtful you'll have anyone importing
them or any future Robotech toys to anywhere.
If you want to live in your delusional Robotech dreamland, go right on ahead,
just don't try to spread the crap around here.
Chris Fullbright
animation history and what not, Macross, while popular, probably isn't as
influential as some other non-sci fi anime was. Every article ive read about
influentual anime and anime that inspired other anime creators, Macross had some
mention but other anime always seemed to be mentioned more. Not a flame or
anything, just an observation of mine. Gundam however, seems to be one of THE
basic driving forces of anime.
Deszaras
Legioss <astps...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:tj668l4...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> You know the circumstances surrounding the failure of Robotech II: The
> Sentinels. You imply here that these shows would have been completed if
they
> were "better". Robotech II wasn't completed because the money wasn't there
> anymore. It wasn't just Matchbox, it was the dollar to yen rate in Japan.
> Robotech 3000 was stopped by Harmony Gold because Netter Digital didn't do
a
> good enough job on it. At the San Diego Comic Con last year Harmony Gold
> announced their plans to continue the project but with cel animation. That
> decision isn't really a failure for Robotech 3000. Robotech will be better
> because of it.
>
The hell it wasnt just Matchbox! It was all about Matchbox.
Thats what I always found funny about Carl Macek. He goes out and openly
denies Robotech being a 25 minute toy commercial. That it was just a show
which had licensed out toys. Robotech was just as much a toy commercial as
the Transformers and GI Joe were(but without the long lasting appeal of
those two). Frankly I remember when I was a kid that most of my friends
ended up with Robotech toys because many of their parents thought they were
Transformers.
Chris George
I remember it well because I ripped off the demo packaging they had on
display for it. It was simply another game package with print-outs taped
over it to make it look like Robotech packaging. :)
Chris George
Keith
>money. He (Harmony Gold) acquired the rights legally, and he legally tried
>to
>make money.
That's bullshit, and you should know it. Wanting to make money and fucking up
someones art does "not" make it ok.
>It still sucked, though. Although I must admit, to an 8-9 year
>old
>kid it didn't suck. It rocked.
>
>Chris
Street Sharks probably "rocked" to a few 5 year olds in its time too, that
doesn't make it any less shit.
Chris Fullbright
I don't like Robotech now, and I don't like Macek. But I don't want to rip him
into small little bloody pieces like you do. I said *ahem*
He did everything he could legally to make some money. That is the whole point
of business. He didnt PIRATE anything, he just took an animated series, hacked
it up for American kiddies, and made some money off it. That is the whole point
of licensing; to take an existing name/product, and sell the rights to make money
off of it to someone else. I dont think its art, you do, but that's not the
point. The point is that it was sold to him, so he can do whatever the hell he
wants to with it. If I buy the Mona Lisa for 4 trillion Dollars, you bet your
sweet ass that if I want to destroy it, then by God, I have the right to. I own
it. Its mine. Macek paid for the license to Macross. Therefore he is within
his rights to do whatever the hell he wants to with it. Yeah, what he did to
it was make it suck hard, but hey, he bought the rights, he should be able to do
whatever the hell he wants to with it, within the terms of his purchase.
Not a flame or anything, just an observation from a business standpoint.
Comic-Kaze
you out defending other animes that suffered the same fate in the 80s huh?
GoLion, Dairugger IV, Sei Juishi Bismarck, Yamato, etc... These all suffered
the same, if worse fate than Robotech. Isn't beauty in the eye of the
beholder?
You say: "That's bullshit, and you should know it. Wanting to make money and
fucking up someones art does "not" make it ok.". Who are you to define what
is "art"? He has the legal right as did all those other companies that
fucked up anime in the 80s (some turned out fine however). Like Chris said,
if I want to pay 3 gazillion for the Venus Di Milo and then saw off her legs
to match her arms...It's fully in my right to do so.
Yes people would probably kill me after I did such a thing...but Keith,
Macross still exists, it isn't a piece of art that can be permanetly
destroyed. So who cares if Robotech is made...Ignore it, trample it under
your feet, and buy the Animeigo DVDs. If you get rich someday, buy Harmony
Gold, and liqudate it...Saw off Macek's arms and legs while you are at it.
-Jeremy
"Chris Fullbright" <cful...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B397828...@bellsouth.net...
Keith
It's not just bullshit, it's a flaming pile of bullshit.
>I don't like Robotech now, and I don't like Macek. But I don't want to rip
>him
>into small little bloody pieces like you do. I said *ahem*
I never said I wanted to rip him into anything, I just want the ignorant stupid
uncreative fuck to leave other peoples art alone, and admit what he did.
>He did everything he could legally to make some money. That is the whole
>point
>of business.
Correction, the point of business is supply & demand, not greed. The
"corruption" of business is greed. The nature of business is trade, not to fuck
everyone else over in search of the almighty dollar.
>He didnt PIRATE anything, he just took an animated series,
>hacked
>it up for American kiddies, and made some money off it. That is the whole
>point
>of licensing; to take an existing name/product, and sell the rights to make
>money
>off of it to someone else.
No, the point of licensing is to make a product available in a market that it
wasn't previously available. You need to refine your interrpetation of the
nature of business to excluse its corruption.
> I dont think its art, you do, but that's not the
>point.
No, that's not the point. It doesn't matter what you "think" it is, the bottom
line is that it is "art." Your ignorance in seeing it as such makes absolutely
no difference whatsoever. If someone puts pen to paper, thought to keyboard,
thought to sound, or in any way creates something regardless of the purpsoe of
its creation, it is art. Just a quick rundown:
-Books = Art
-Movies = Art
-Music = Art
-Pictures = Art
-Poetry = Art
-Stories = Art
-TV Shows = Art
-Architecture = Art
And so on & so forth.
>The point is that it was sold to him, so he can do whatever the hell
>he
>wants to with it. If I buy the Mona Lisa for 4 trillion Dollars, you bet
>your
>sweet ass that if I want to destroy it, then by God, I have the right to. I
>own
>it. Its mine.
Point is its someone elses art. Regardless of whether you or anyone else buys
anything, you have no right to alter it, nor claim it to be your creation. If
you spend 4 trillion dollars on the Mona Lisa, then light it up like a roman
candle, you can be damned sure that you're going to be lynched. Age does not
define art, noteriety does not define art, being created by someones hand &
mind defines art, period.
> Macek paid for the license to Macross. Therefore he is
>within
>his rights to do whatever the hell he wants to with it. Yeah, what he did
>to
>it was make it suck hard, but hey, he bought the rights, he should be able to
>do
>whatever the hell he wants to with it, within the terms of his purchase.
>Not a flame or anything, just an observation from a business standpoint.
And it's ignorant thinking like that which perpetuates such stupid actions.
Again, legal right, and actual "right" are far from the same, nor does legal
right equate rightness or rightiousness.
=======
>Yes, Chris said it right...And it was also the trend at the time. Why aren't
>you out defending other animes that suffered the same fate in the 80s huh?
>GoLion, Dairugger IV, Sei Juishi Bismarck, Yamato, etc... These all suffered
>the same, if worse fate than Robotech. Isn't beauty in the eye of the
>beholder?
Actually, the series used to make Robotech recevied the combined treatment and
then some of all of the above mentioned series. And considering we're in a
Macross newsgroup where the discussion itself is Macross, it only stands to
reason that the ground being covered here would naturally be "Macross." Besides
which, you don't exactly see me condining the treatment of any of the afore
mentioned series, nor any that have followed since. The wrong is wrong period,
the subject here is Macross.
But to answer your question more directly, should the subject turn up, you
would indeed see me defending against the treatment each series has recieved as
well. And while I haven't seen it, the same goes for "What's Up Tigerlily."
>You say: "That's bullshit, and you should know it. Wanting to make money and
>fucking up someones art does "not" make it ok.". Who are you to define what
>is "art"?
Who are you to deny what is art?
>He has the legal right as did all those other companies that
>fucked up anime in the 80s (some turned out fine however). Like Chris said,
>if I want to pay 3 gazillion for the Venus Di Milo and then saw off her legs
>to match her arms...It's fully in my right to do so.
If you're so boldly ignorant to think so, then all I can say is that I feel
sorry for you, you ignorant shit. Nothing gives you the right to fuck with
someoene elses art, nothing. Your own art yes, but anyone elses, no. I suppose
you also think that if it was within legal right to molest little children,
you'd be conding that as well. Hell, it was within legal right to own slaves,
but that was far from right as well.
You need to learn the difference between legal right, & actual "right."
>Yes people would probably kill me after I did such a thing...but Keith,
>Macross still exists, it isn't a piece of art that can be permanetly
>destroyed. So who cares if Robotech is made...Ignore it, trample it under
>your feet, and buy the Animeigo DVDs. If you get rich someday, buy Harmony
>Gold, and liqudate it...Saw off Macek's arms and legs while you are at it.
>
>-Jeremy
Or try & convince ignorant shits such as those who've presented themselves just
how idiotic they are. It's within my "right" to do so.
Chris Fullbright
want their art to be f*cked with, why didnt they NOT SELL, or why did the licensing
contract NOT state that the series should be presented as is to other audiences,
not cut up and twisted into something entirely different? They could have done
that, you know. But they didn't. If they really cared, they would have protected
it better, i think.
>
> Correction, the point of business is supply & demand, not greed. The
> "corruption" of business is greed. The nature of business is trade, not to fuck
> everyone else over in search of the almighty dollar.
>
>
No, the point of business is TRADE, one which maximizes one's return on a given
asset. Macek didn't F*ck anyone over, they TRADED the rights for $$$. Im sure
they were happy with what they got, or else they wouldn't have made the deal. I've
been through business school.
>
> No, the point of licensing is to make a product available in a market that it
> wasn't previously available. You need to refine your interrpetation of the
> nature of business to excluse its corruption.
Wrong, the point of licensing is to be able to USE something (a name, product,
idea, etc.) in order to MAKE $$$. I have several textbooks that say as such.
>
> No, that's not the point. It doesn't matter what you "think" it is, the bottom
> line is that it is "art." Your ignorance in seeing it as such makes absolutely
> no difference whatsoever.
Ah, so NOW I see. Whatever Keith says is true, and my opinions don't mean SHIT.
Whatever. So now KEITH from NOW ON gets to decide what is art, and what isn't.
>
> If
> you spend 4 trillion dollars on the Mona Lisa, then light it up like a roman
> candle, you can be damned sure that you're going to be lynched.
So? What does it matter what other people think? ITS MINE. Why should I care
about other people's opinions of what I do or think when YOU clearly don't?
> And it's ignorant thinking like that which perpetuates such stupid actions.
> Again, legal right, and actual "right" are far from the same, nor does legal
> right equate rightness or rightiousness.
How is it ignorant thinking, Keith? If we applied the above principle to
everything, much less commerce would be the result. If I came up with a product
idea, after many hours of hard thought and sweat off my back, and designed the
product, you mean I have no "actual" right to sell it to someone else because it is
my "ART", even if my intention was to sell it all along? What about product
names? Remember the "Coca Cola" shirt trend in the 80's? If Coca Cola wanted to
LICENSE their logo so Designers can put them on their clothes, the don't "Actually"
have the right to, because it came from someone's hard work and imagination so it
is "Art"? Come on. That is really stretching it.
Oyan
any better than you have. :)
Oyan - Macross II 0wnz!!!
"Legioss" <astps...@gci.net> wrote in message news:<tj668l4...@corp.supernews.com>...
Godmars
@hotmail.com says...
> Well said Legioss, very well said. I don't think I could have said it
> any better than you have. :)
>
> Oyan - Macross II 0wnz!!!
Only Oyan would agree with Legioss.
--
God
miyagami noriko
That is a choice that has haunted me for years, but then English is not my
native language either so I really do not care.
Again this has much that I feel a need to inject to different people. I am
not really going to pay attention to names here as again I do not care.
"Godmars" <ple...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15a58fb1f...@news.rcn.com...
> In article <93d4ed1.01062...@posting.google.com>, Oihan32
> @hotmail.com says...
> > Well said Legioss, very well said. I don't think I could have said it
> > any better than you have. :)
> >
> > Oyan - Macross II 0wnz!!!
>
> Only Oyan would agree with Legioss.
>
Still wondering what this Ownz thing is. Last time I ran into it was by AOL
users and people who thought they had some form of intelect because they
could hack an NT4 system.
> >
> > "Legioss" <astps...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:<tj668l4...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > > "Keith" <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:20010621112534...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> > > > Let's weigh the success of both series.
> > > >
> > > > -Macross: Had it's episode count extended due to the huge success of
its
> > > > original 27 episodes.
> > > > -Robotech: Had it's intended sequel halted in early production
because
> > > > investors pulled out.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You're talking about a 36 episode series and an 85 episode series.
Macross
> > > got 9 more episodes added on to 27. Robotech had 85 episodes and 75
minutes
> > > more added on. You could make any conclusion you want out of that, and
> > > that's what you're doing, turning the ambiguity of these meaningless
numbers
> > > into some kind of proof against Robotech. This isn't "weighing" the
series.
> > >
Ceteris Paribus ~ The lengths of series runs has no bearing on anything
except for pricing of production merchandise. Urusei Yatsura ran for much
longer than both yet I do not see anyone claiming how great it was here.
Perhaps you should take the time to address Dr. Slump: the longest running
anime show ever, due to popularity. Gundam, ZGundam, ZZGundam, etc... Or
what of Space Cruiser Yamato? Maison Ikkoku, Fight Iczer-One, Dream Hunter
Rem (The most influential series ever to me), Votoms, Vifam, SPT Layzner,
Space Runaway Ideon, Fairy Dust/Cream Lemon or any others? They all have
part here.
> > > > -Macross: Had a huge budgeted movie based on it's story, which today
> > > remains
> > > > hugely popular, and some of the best animation ever.
> > > > -Robotech: Tried to turn Megazone 23 Episode 1 into a movie which
bombed &
> > > only
> > > > got released on tape in Europe.
> > > >
> > >
> > > So whichever series gets the best adjectives in its description from
you,
> > > wins.
Just so you know, it is Megazone 23 Part 1. I am currently the holder of the
largest private collection of Megazone (all parts) Cel's in the United
States, perhaps in the world. And I am proud to hold that.
> > >
> > > > -Macross: Has spawned many follow ups (both continuity &
non-continuity)
> > > > including DYRL, Flash Back 2012, Macross Plus, Macross Plus Movie
Ediiton,
> > > > Macross 7, & Macross II.
> > > > -Robotech: Has had "2" attempts at a sequel now die in production.
Both
> > > > Robotech II: The Sentinels, & Robotech 3000.
> > > >
Hate to break this to you, but in my opinion the only follow ups worth
anything at all are "Mecha Graffiti" and "Flashback 2012". Other than those
the rest are just bad.
Well pointed out...
> > > > -Macross has had many video games (some misunderstood) based on it
> > > released
> > > > continually over the past 20 years
> > > > -Robotech: No games yet, keep dying in production.
> > > >
> > >
> > > So far, Macross games have been more successful. TDK was showing their
first
> > > Robotech game off at E3.
> > >
If video games are your opinion of a measure of sucess in a market, then you
are definately looking the wrong way. But since most people nowdays do not
remember the Sega -vs- Famicom wars, then they would never see how
merchandising can affect a market.
Now I know some people have no concept of value of items, so I will take
some time and look at that. Last year I sold two different cycle designs.
The Matchbox Scott Bernard Cyclone, NRFP and the original Mospeada Ride
Armour, also NRFP. Both were exactly the same except for one was packaged
with the american design box and the other had the origial Japanese design.
Just so happens that the Matchbox one sold for $220 more than the other.
Both in the same day to different people.
That is one isolated example of merchandise. I can cite thousands of
examples to you from every concievable show. But again in the end it is a
numbers game combined with presentation. The american audiences are not as
refined as the Japanese audiences are. They were much worse in the 80's when
Robotech was aired. Macross was aimed at a higher level of conciousness than
Robotech was. On top of that the things that HAD to be edited out by order
of the censors hurt more than Carl ever could. I still have a copy of the
original broadcast run of Robotech. I also have a copy of the later runs,
most sound tracks are different as are some of the dubs. Even worse there
are whole sections cut out of them. I remember them. I have them. Others
just speculate but the proof exists. Carl was not the villian there, neither
was Harmony Gold. The broadcast censors were.
> > > > -Macross has had "many" soundtracks released from "all" its series,
audio
> > > tape,
> > > > Vinyl, & CD. as well as many artbooks.
> > >
> > > Robotech had soundtracks and artbooks too. I don't see how the Macross
ones
> > > are any more "successful" other than that you spelled this part
correctly.
> > >
Robotech had the Vinyl, the single CD released in the late 80's and the
Robotech Perfect 2 CD set. Macross has been around for a lot longer, it has
a more large following, and frankly in Japan we see anime Music as real
music to be listened to. Any sucessful series will have many different CDs
released. Take for Example Sailor Moon, I have over 40 different CDs from
that series before we even start to count the SonMay releases. Tenchi has
has had almost as Many as Macross, has spawned numerous spin-offs, all in a
shorter period of time. If that is how you measure it then You would be
telling me that Tenchi is vastly superior to Macross.
> > > > -Robotech: Soem vinyl & 1 2 disc CD set, as well as some laughable
comics
> > > & bad
> > > > novelizations. All of which again not worth the material they're
> > > > printed/recorded on.
> > > >
For what he had to work with Jack McKinney did a not so bad job. Also you
are leaving out the entire Paladium line of RPGs made by Kevin Siembeida.
Those are all based on the Robotech line and are immensely popular.
> > >
> > > You put incorrect spelling in the Robotech section to make Robotech
look
> > > cheap and a mention of a "1 2 disc CD set".
> > > "laughable", "bad" (this kind of "proof" again)
> > > Keith decides how much the novels are worth. Don't think. Let Keith
think
> > > for you.
> > >
Unfortunatly I have to agree. People to often dictate value based on very
little experiance. My first question is if he has read the previous
mentioned books in their entirety. If he has not then his opinion would be
without merit as he would be making claims on something he knows nothing
about. Then again if he does state he read them in entirety, he then is a
hypocrite because he did such. Kind of a double edge sword there.
> > > > -Macross: To this very day remains a highly influential & popular
force in
> > > > Japan, only truly topped by Gundam.
> > >
I would like to know how he backs that up. There are many more influential
shows in the history of Japan. Unless he is refering to ONLY the
transformable Mecha series based on the planet earth when it is attacked by
aliens who are really big, leading to the narrow escape of the heroes of the
show with an accident that leads to them building their habitat inside the
vessel of escape where they then have a young girl who becomes famous and
leads to the eventual overthow of the oppressing force through the power of
her song, but still cant keep the guy she wants because he fell in love with
the girl he hated.
If that is the criteria, then he is absolutely correct. Otherwise he is not.
> > > Why are we comparing what you think of Macross here? I thought you
were
> > > going to show how successful Macross is compared to how successful
Robotech
> > > is. We already know you like Macross better.
> > >
I believe the term is Filibuster... (not sure of the spelling there)
> > > > -Robotech: Has fan "nostalgia" that isn't really strong enough to
cover up
> > > the
> > > > low quality.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Robotech gets an opinion about why people watch it and we are told it
isn't
> > > "strong enough" (who cares). You say Robotech has "low quality"
(vague).
> > >
I remeber when Unions used to claim that products made in Japan were of
inferior quality. He is selling his idea with no merit, much like all
ignorance.
> > > > And Finally
> > > >
> > > > -Macross: Has been screwed internationally outside of Japan because
of
> > > > Tatsunoko making a bad deal.
> > >
> > > You don't like Tatsunoko's decision to license Macross to Harmony
Gold. This
> > > makes Macross more successful? (We've lost the success comparison at
this
> > > point and gone off on a tangent.)
I have an idea... If you do not like Robotech, do not watch it...
> > >
> > > > -Robotech: Apparently has a very good propganda machine.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It's spelled "propaganda", even in the Robotech section of your
comparison.
> > > :)
> > > You think Harmony Gold is lying (about?) and that they're good at it.
This
> > > makes Robotech less successful?
> > >
> > > > So you tell me, which is more "popular" ?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't know. In Japan, Macross is more popular. Robotech seems to be
more
> > > popular on the world wide web, looking at the amount of people that
post to
> > > the message boards. More people post to the Macross newsgroups though
than
> > > the Robotech newsgroups. We may know by next year if Robotech or
Macross
> > > DVDs will sell more, and if Robotech or Macross toys will sell more.
Also,
> > > we're still waiting on new series for both.
> >
In Japan Macross is more popular. But in english speaking countries Robotech
is still the reigning champion. The voices who cry out the insanities this
post I am answering to are few but loud. Much like a two month old who wants
their diaper changed, they do not know what they are screaming about, only
that it hurts.
- Miyagami Noriko
- Reivens Nest Anime
PS: Like I said, I care not about the spelling here.
Chris Fullbright
have an anime snob to "tell us how it is."
Keith
>didnt
>want their art to be f*cked with, why didnt they NOT SELL, or why did the
>licensing
>contract NOT state that the series should be presented as is to other
>audiences,
>not cut up and twisted into something entirely different? They could have
>done
>that, you know. But they didn't. If they really cared, they would have
>protected
>it better, i think.
The producers didn't handle the licensing contracts, Tatsunoko did. Besides
which, they shouldn't have to stipulate any of it. It's someone elses art, HG
fucked with it, they should have known better & left it alone. You shouldn't
have to be told not to fuck with something in order to not fuck with it. People
aren't "that" stupid. The blame lies soley with HG & Macek, no one else.
>No, the point of business is TRADE, one which maximizes one's return on a
>given
>asset. Macek didn't F*ck anyone over, they TRADED the rights for $$$. Im
>sure
>they were happy with what they got, or else they wouldn't have made the deal.
>I've
>been through business school.
No, the point of business is to trade period, maximizing profits is not an
absolute necessesity in doing so requiring for business. The absolute minimum
requirements for business are trade. Again, trying to fuck everyone over in the
overzealous quest for profit is part of the "corruption of business.
>Wrong, the point of licensing is to be able to USE something (a name,
>product,
>idea, etc.) in order to MAKE $$$. I have several textbooks that say as
>such.
And many textbooks are retired for being out of date & wrong. A textbook
afterall is only as good as the idiot who wrote it.
>Ah, so NOW I see. Whatever Keith says is true, and my opinions don't mean
>SHIT.
>Whatever. So now KEITH from NOW ON gets to decide what is art, and what
>isn't.
When you're so blatantly wrong about art, then most definately yes, you are
going to be called on being wrong. Just because you're too ignorant to
understand art, does not make me any less write.
>So? What does it matter what other people think? ITS MINE. Why should I
>care
>about other people's opinions of what I do or think when YOU clearly don't?
It's not yours, its your purchase of someone elses art. Had you created it,
then you could hack it up to pieces to your delight, that however is not the
case. And who said I don't care about other peoples opinions? I just don't
bullshit around when you're wrong.
>How is it ignorant thinking, Keith? If we applied the above principle to
>everything, much less commerce would be the result. If I came up with a
>product
>idea, after many hours of hard thought and sweat off my back, and designed
>the
>product, you mean I have no "actual" right to sell it to someone else because
>it is
>my "ART", even if my intention was to sell it all along? What about product
>names? Remember the "Coca Cola" shirt trend in the 80's? If Coca Cola
>wanted to
>LICENSE their logo so Designers can put them on their clothes, the don't
>"Actually"
>have the right to, because it came from someone's hard work and imagination
>so it
>is "Art"? Come on. That is really stretching it.
No one said anything about not being able to sell art. Just not fuckng with it
once its bought. It's really not such a hard concept to grasp.
==============
>I don't think I could have said it
>any better than you have. :)
>
>Oyan - Macross II 0wnz!!!
You don't seem to be able to say anything yourself, except how much you think
Macross II "ownz"
=================
>Let me open by pointing out that I personally do not care about spelling.
>That is a choice that has haunted me for years, but then English is not my
>native language either so I really do not care.
>
>Again this has much that I feel a need to inject to different people. I am
>not really going to pay attention to names here as again I do not care.
Don't worry, I never do either.
>Still wondering what this Ownz thing is. Last time I ran into it was by AOL
>users and people who thought they had some form of intelect because they
>could hack an NT4 system.
It's akin to "rules" or "rocks." More specifically, it's a mispelling of
"owns."
>Ceteris Paribus ~ The lengths of series runs has no bearing on anything
>except for pricing of production merchandise. Urusei Yatsura ran for much
>longer than both yet I do not see anyone claiming how great it was here.
>Perhaps you should take the time to address Dr. Slump: the longest running
>anime show ever, due to popularity. Gundam, ZGundam, ZZGundam, etc... Or
>what of Space Cruiser Yamato? Maison Ikkoku, Fight Iczer-One, Dream Hunter
>Rem (The most influential series ever to me), Votoms, Vifam, SPT Layzner,
>Space Runaway Ideon, Fairy Dust/Cream Lemon or any others? They all have
>part here.
As I said, the length of a series holds no bearing.
>Just so you know, it is Megazone 23 Part 1. I am currently the holder of the
>largest private collection of Megazone (all parts) Cel's in the United
>States, perhaps in the world. And I am proud to hold that.
Thank you for sharring, but I fail to see the relivence this has to the topic.
>Hate to break this to you, but in my opinion the only follow ups worth
>anything at all are "Mecha Graffiti" and "Flashback 2012". Other than those
>the rest are just bad.
Mecha graffiti wasn't a follow up, it was a re-cap/showcase. And your inability
to recognize the quality in the rest of the Macross sequels holds little
bearing here either.
>If video games are your opinion of a measure of sucess in a market, then you
>are definately looking the wrong way. But since most people nowdays do not
>remember the Sega -vs- Famicom wars, then they would never see how
>merchandising can affect a market.
The comparison was brought between actually released video games, and video
games that died in production. As for the Sega vs Nintendo wars, they're still
very much alive today, though these days its more akin to Sony Vs Sega, soon to
change to Sony Vs Microsoft. Same old story, only the names have changed.
>Now I know some people have no concept of value of items, so I will take
>some time and look at that. Last year I sold two different cycle designs.
>The Matchbox Scott Bernard Cyclone, NRFP and the original Mospeada Ride
>Armour, also NRFP. Both were exactly the same except for one was packaged
>with the american design box and the other had the origial Japanese design.
>Just so happens that the Matchbox one sold for $220 more than the other.
>Both in the same day to different people.
This however would fall under the catagory of repackaged Japanese toy, not one
produced originally for the Robotech toyline. Besides which, there's no
question that Robotech was more popular than Mospeada in the U.S.
>That is one isolated example of merchandise. I can cite thousands of
>examples to you from every concievable show. But again in the end it is a
>numbers game combined with presentation. The american audiences are not as
>refined as the Japanese audiences are. They were much worse in the 80's when
>Robotech was aired. Macross was aimed at a higher level of conciousness than
>Robotech was. On top of that the things that HAD to be edited out by order
>of the censors hurt more than Carl ever could. I still have a copy of the
>original broadcast run of Robotech. I also have a copy of the later runs,
>most sound tracks are different as are some of the dubs. Even worse there
>are whole sections cut out of them. I remember them. I have them. Others
>just speculate but the proof exists. Carl was not the villian there, neither
>was Harmony Gold. The broadcast censors were.
Broadcast censors had absolutely nothing to do with meshing 3 series together,
dumbing down & melodramaticizing the dialogue, nor altering the stories. The
blame for all of the above rests with HG & Macek. As for later broadcast runs,
you forget about the all too common practice of re-syndication cuts to add more
commercials.
>Robotech had the Vinyl, the single CD released in the late 80's and the
>Robotech Perfect 2 CD set. Macross has been around for a lot longer, it has
>a more large following, and frankly in Japan we see anime Music as real
>music to be listened to. Any sucessful series will have many different CDs
>released. Take for Example Sailor Moon, I have over 40 different CDs from
>that series before we even start to count the SonMay releases. Tenchi has
>has had almost as Many as Macross, has spawned numerous spin-offs, all in a
>shorter period of time. If that is how you measure it then You would be
>telling me that Tenchi is vastly superior to Macross.
Macross has been around 3 years longer, the 3 year gap hardly accounts for the
vast difference in their audio library. Son May releases are bootlegs from
Singapore btw, don't actually fall under the catagory of an official soundtrack
release. And the direct comparision here was in the populatrity between Macross
& Robotech, the popularity between Macross & Tenchi is another subject
entirely. If by your odd choice of debate within this issue you're trying to
imply that despite all the facts Robotech was more popular than Macross, I
suggest you try something that actually substanciates your claims.
>For what he had to work with Jack McKinney did a not so bad job. Also you
>are leaving out the entire Paladium line of RPGs made by Kevin Siembeida.
>Those are all based on the Robotech line and are immensely popular.
The McKinney novelists effectively pulled a Robotech on Robotech. Did the exact
same thing that was done, took the story, & modified it to fit their own idea's
of what they though it should be. As for the RPG's, those get into the realm of
so non-continuity of anything that it's not even funny. Both the novels & RPG's
rank as licensed fan-fiction.
>Unfortunatly I have to agree. People to often dictate value based on very
>little experiance. My first question is if he has read the previous
>mentioned books in their entirety. If he has not then his opinion would be
>without merit as he would be making claims on something he knows nothing
>about. Then again if he does state he read them in entirety, he then is a
>hypocrite because he did such. Kind of a double edge sword there.
Double edged sword? No. I haven't read them, I've had no desire to. I have
however read much about them, and their lack of quality stands well for itself.
Had I drummed up the spare time or patience to bare through them, it would make
absolutely no difference.
>I would like to know how he backs that up. There are many more influential
>shows in the history of Japan. Unless he is refering to ONLY the
>transformable Mecha series based on the planet earth when it is attacked by
>aliens who are really big, leading to the narrow escape of the heroes of the
>show with an accident that leads to them building their habitat inside the
>vessel of escape where they then have a young girl who becomes famous and
>leads to the eventual overthow of the oppressing force through the power of
>her song, but still cant keep the guy she wants because he fell in love with
>the girl he hated.
Funny considering you claim much more based on much less when you attempt to
say Macek did "so much" for the anime community in the U.S.
>If that is the criteria, then he is absolutely correct. Otherwise he is not.
Aside from the many transofrmable mecha anime that have followed, as well as
the continued underlying themes of the power of music & love, Macross gave a
start to influencial people such as Hideaki Anno.
>I believe the term is Filibuster... (not sure of the spelling there)
No, the term is denial, as in you've deviated to this topic without actually
participating in it, chiming in to do nothing but deny the facts of Robotech's
lack of actual success.
>I remeber when Unions used to claim that products made in Japan were of
>inferior quality. He is selling his idea with no merit, much like all
>ignorance.
The term here being "hypocrite," being that you've yet to justify your claims
in the least, let alone deny the fact that Robotech's existing popularity as it
stands now rests with little more than childhood nostalgia, as many a Robotech
fan will tell you themselves.
>I have an idea... If you do not like Robotech, do not watch it...
And you've no business debating in a topic that you've both nothing to add to,
nor understand. The subject here is specifically a comparison between the
popularities of both Macross & Roibotech.
>In Japan Macross is more popular. But in english speaking countries Robotech
>is still the reigning champion. The voices who cry out the insanities this
>post I am answering to are few but loud. Much like a two month old who wants
>their diaper changed, they do not know what they are screaming about, only
>that it hurts.
>
> - Miyagami Noriko
> - Reivens Nest Anime
The question rises, if you know you're whining, why do you persist? The
Popularity of Robotech extends about as far as childhood nostalgia, while the
popularity of Macross exists even in "English speaking countries." You attempt
to talk a big game, but even fail on that front. If you want to play, I suggest
you at least try to understand the topics you're including yourself in.
>PS: Like I said, I care not about the spelling here.
Thank you for sharring.
miyagami noriko
was not aimed at you. It was aimed particularly at the previous mentiond
individuals. I never attempted to tell you how it is, merely interject some
other often forgotten things into their conversation in the attempt to show
them that Macross and Robotech are not the end all be all of life.
I would ask that you please do not attack me in the future like this as I
did nothing to deserve such an attack.
I myself am not a Macross Whacko, or a Robotech FanBoy. I am not even a fan
of Robotech, nor am I male. Finally I am not a snob. I just have a greater
grasp of anime than most due to being part of it for as long as I have been.
Thank you Chris.
"Chris Fullbright" <cful...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B3C7630...@bellsouth.net...
Oyan
Godmars <ple...@nomail.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.15a58fb1f...@news.rcn.com>...
Oyan
> Let me open by pointing out that I personally do not care about spelling.
> That is a choice that has haunted me for years, but then English is not my
> native language either so I really do not care.
>
> Again this has much that I feel a need to inject to different people. I am
> not really going to pay attention to names here as again I do not care.
>
> "Godmars" <ple...@nomail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.15a58fb1f...@news.rcn.com...
> > In article <93d4ed1.01062...@posting.google.com>, Oihan32
> > @hotmail.com says...
> > > Well said Legioss, very well said. I don't think I could have said it
> > > any better than you have. :)
> > >
> > > Oyan - Macross II 0wnz!!!
> >
> > Only Oyan would agree with Legioss.
> >
>
> Still wondering what this Ownz thing is. Last time I ran into it was by AOL
> users and people who thought they had some form of intelect because they
> could hack an NT4 system.
0wnz...it's like hacker talk (ebonics and whatnot).... If I were to
say "this car 0wnz", I'm pretty much saying that "this car is the best
of the best"...that "this car is the best car there is." ...I just
love Macross II to death...so I choose to use ebonics (or whatever
you'd like to call it) to show that I think it's best of them all....
Hope that helps you understand better of what "0wnz" is/means. How's
all of that for that "intelligent dialect" bs of yours?!
Oyan - Macross II 0wnz!
miyagami noriko
"Oyan" <Oih...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93d4ed1.01063...@posting.google.com...
It is actually "Wannabe Hacker" talk.
Or is it Hax0r still? Probably not. People these days seem to think the more
fancy they can make words from obscure yet relative geometric shapes, the
better it makes them. They should learn to stick to the basics and learn
true application of technique. "man man" is a good start. Most do not even
know what a hacker really is.
On the other hand, I assume your experiance with computers goes back a
while. Probably some Windows, little dos, maybe some Linux (probably apolo
kernal and later - Circa RH5).
I used to design for Sun. Unix is my prefered system, no GUI - pure command
line. I regularly hack Linux (Currently running two here), Alpha, an old
Microport, and of course my Sun.
The funny thing was that you answered the question, though. It was never
meant to be answered. It was meant to be rhetorical and to pull you into a
conversation if you were as egotistical as I assumed. Seems like you fell
for it better than I could have ever guessed.
Doesnt matter anyway. See you can change words and sentance structure to
sound cool. They tried that in my era, they tried that in the 70's, in the
60's, in the 90's. All it does is make fools of people. I remember when
Valley was just the same as all this other new talk. It all goes the same
way eventually.
As for intelegent dialect. I almost forgot we are speaking English. The
entire intelegence is lost right there.
Comic-Kaze
English as it is "intelligent" and "intelligence".
^_^
But I agree with you on everything else. I like, don't think like, Valley
exists as a like, language subgroup anymore...Its like diluted into like,
culture.
-Jeremy
FoRTiNbRas926
>Date: 2001.06.29 11:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <jh4%6.548$887....@news.pacbell.net>
>
>I appologise if you feel I have attacked you in any way Chris, but this post
>was not aimed at you. It was aimed particularly at the previous mentiond
>individuals. I never attempted to tell you how it is, merely interject some
>other often forgotten things into their conversation in the attempt to show
>them that Macross and Robotech are not the end all be all of life.
>
>I would ask that you please do not attack me in the future like this as I
>did nothing to deserve such an attack.
>
>I myself am not a Macross Whacko, or a Robotech FanBoy. I am not even a fan
>of Robotech, nor am I male. Finally I am not a snob. I just have a greater
>grasp of anime than most due to being part of it for as long as I have been.
>
>Thank you Chris.
>
I hope you don't talk in the same way you type. No offense or anything ^_^
but you DO sound like a snob.
Kids who talked like that back when I was in school got beaten up a lot.
Ahh, wasn't high school great?
-James AKA Fortinbras926
Keith
my presence. Language is many things, but it is not set in stone. It's a
continually growing & changing thing. And what you forget about the slang
terminology of the above decades mentioned is that they did have a perminent
effect on the evolution of language as it is today, as the language of today
will have on tomorrow. Be it right or wrong, liked or disliked, language lives
on growth & change, some stays, some doesn't, some replaceas old.
In all your arrogence you forget the most basic rules of language, if it's
used, it becomes a new part. I personally could give less of a shit if Oyan is
a poser or not, he's using language in a way which he choses, and has his right
just as everyone else does.
miyagami noriko
I do remember being beaten up alot in the beginning when I was younger. But
then bering 1/2 Okinawan and 1/2 Chinese and being raised in Okinawa in the
70's - 80's tends to produce that form of action. On the other hand it did
stop over time as I learned the arts, but it still remains.
As to after coming to the United States. It has been attempted by few, but
never with any sucess. Only met one American who was able to beat me, and he
is one of my closest friends now. We regularly practice, though he still has
many lessons to teach.
The snob thing is usually interpretation. As Usenet is a textual medium, the
intonations and body language that we have been accustomed to are lost. So
we are forced to look into the words. As people, humans, are generaly
graphical beings who rely to much on their sight, tey will often try to fom
an image subconciously of what they think the person on the other side is.
If all you have in experiance is people who are snobs who talk a certian
way, then you will (you being generalization not specificly yourself) most
likely apply that person to that group.
My english skills come from very different places. Before coming to the
United states I learned mostly from the Americans who were statioed in
Okinawa. Marines. I tend to hold no love of Marines still. After coming to
the United States in 1987 I found that my skills needed refinement if I was
to survive. I met a man after a few months in the US who would immediately
be labled by most people as a snob as well. Truth is he just did not care
about anything most cared about. He worked for the government and all that
mattered was his job, probably the most educated person I have ever known.
Anyway after him (no romantic involvement ever) a few years back, I met a
young girl. She is 19 now, she was 14, almost 15 when we met. She was one of
those snob types. Her father is my attorney now, though he had me in court
once before - the reason I hired him. He was good. Her family comes from a
long line of to much money and not enough things to do. She also helped
refine my english skills. Had Lunch with her father on Thursday and finally
asked him the reason for all that silverware on the table. Two forks, two
spoons, two knives? Why do people of European descent need so much? The
thing that still bothers me is that one of those spoons is supposed to be a
soup spoon. But when they sereve the soup, it includes a spoon with it. But
I did not wish to ask as we were discussing a new contract.
Anyway I have typed way to long, and probably told way to much to early.
- Miyagami Noriko
"FoRTiNbRas926" <fortin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010701035248...@ng-fs1.aol.com...
miyagami noriko
Language filters here. So if people continue to use the language, as I have
as of this morning restatrted them, then thier long hard typed messages will
not come through to me.
Also the Supreme Court has ruled that:
"A persons freedom ends when it imposes upon anothers"
I forget the exact case, but the most recent precedent was when a person was
fined and sentanced to 90 days for contempt of court for wearing a t-shirt
that had profanity upon it. That was about four years ago.
People often wish to scream their rights, but see with your freedom of
speech also comes my freedom to not have to hear it if I do not want to. The
first Legal necesity is that I must first ask you to refrain. That has been
done. Now though I can not at this time do anything to you legally, not that
I care enough about you to do such, I would again ask your restraint. Your
social need to impose your superiority over others will of course dictate
you are unable to comply with that request.
Finally... AOL Keith? Could you not at least do better than that?
- Miyagami Noriko
"Keith" <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010701101240...@ng-da1.aol.com...
Godmars
says...
> All things considered, I am not redoing the sources and recompiling the
> Language filters here. So if people continue to use the language, as I have
> as of this morning restatrted them, then thier long hard typed messages will
> not come through to me.
>
> Also the Supreme Court has ruled that:
>
> "A persons freedom ends when it imposes upon anothers"
>
> I forget the exact case, but the most recent precedent was when a person was
> fined and sentanced to 90 days for contempt of court for wearing a t-shirt
> that had profanity upon it. That was about four years ago.
>
> People often wish to scream their rights, but see with your freedom of
> speech also comes my freedom to not have to hear it if I do not want to. The
> first Legal necesity is that I must first ask you to refrain. That has been
> done. Now though I can not at this time do anything to you legally, not that
> I care enough about you to do such, I would again ask your restraint. Your
> social need to impose your superiority over others will of course dictate
> you are unable to comply with that request.
>
> Finally... AOL Keith? Could you not at least do better than that?
>
>
> - Miyagami Noriko
>
Keith is our resident Macross Nazi. He is what he is.
--
God
miyagami noriko
I do not like Nazi's much. Personal reasons.
But I feel he could do better if he went to the Land of Oz.
- M.N.
> --
> God
>
Comic-Kaze
amendment of Free Speech. Then again, I'm Canadian and none of those laws
apply to me.
I have to give Keith credit for standing up for however people want to speak
(or type) in this newsgroup.
-Jeremy
"miyagami noriko" <kyok...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:9rM%6.692$dH3....@news.pacbell.net...
Keith
>Language filters here. So if people continue to use the language, as I have
>as of this morning restatrted them, then thier long hard typed messages will
>not come through to me.
>
>Also the Supreme Court has ruled that:
>
>"A persons freedom ends when it imposes upon anothers"
>
>I forget the exact case, but the most recent precedent was when a person was
>fined and sentanced to 90 days for contempt of court for wearing a t-shirt
>that had profanity upon it. That was about four years ago.
>
>People often wish to scream their rights, but see with your freedom of
>speech also comes my freedom to not have to hear it if I do not want to. The
>first Legal necesity is that I must first ask you to refrain. That has been
>done. Now though I can not at this time do anything to you legally, not that
>I care enough about you to do such, I would again ask your restraint. Your
>social need to impose your superiority over others will of course dictate
>you are unable to comply with that request.
Fascism won't be tolerated here either. Bottom line, people have the rights to
use the language they please, including myself with profanity. What you choose
& choose not to read is entirely up to you, but filtering amounts to nothing
more than censorhip. If you're here promoting censorship as well, then you
again have no right taking debate in a subject of artistic integrity. Besides
which, you completely ignored my post, not actually addressing the issues of
language.
>Finally... AOL Keith? Could you not at least do better than that?
>
>
> - Miyagami Noriko
miyagami noriko
be of no value gets ignored. Standard legal practice there.
This is a business here Keith, I apply the filters because I have people
that work for me that I protect from certian things such as yourself. If one
of my employees is offended by it, I must use methods to protect them from
it. Its a legal obligation. I do not expect you to understand those
matters. In fact I do not expect you to understand anything beyond your own
inflated self belief in your own words.
I also am quite tired of you touting the words "Artistic Integrity" in the
manner you. Very much like Species Integrity as was touted by the Nazi's of
WWII. Another thing you are not capable of comprehending.
Many times you have attacked me in this thread because I defend Carl, yet
hold no love of him. I have seen the world before him. I have seen the world
after him. If you were not there, in the world of anime THEN, then you have
no right to be speaking in this forum about him or his work. And I do not
mean being alive and watching it on TV when you were 6 or 10 or however old
you were. I mean actively spreading the gospel of anime. Being an active
force in the world of Anime. After all, one can despise a creature yet still
respect it. Respect is the first form of hatred, as well as fear and love.
More things your are not capable of understanding.
Just so you know: You are beginning to bore me with your repeditive circular
phrasings that utilize nothing but your own words to back them up. Unlike
God, Keith is not capable of saying "Let there be light" and have light
appearing. All things of intelect understand the need for tangible evidence
and cited sources to back up any and all claims made. Unless, of course,
their usual social commentarys is comprised of "Would you like fries with
that order?"
On the other hand, if you can produce for me a statement, of traceable
origin, from Big West or Studio Nue that backs your claims of what Robotech
did to Macross. Then I will perhaps take the time to possibly re-examine my
stance morally. But as it stands, legally, HG was in full rights through
their deal with Tatsunoko.
AKA: Your homework asignment for this night is found in the paragraph above.
I fully expect you to do your usual and tell me off and try to hide behind
your bravado.
- Miyagami Noriko
Still AOL Keith... Im beginning to understand why yopu speak the way you do.
"Keith" <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010702013136...@ng-mj1.aol.com...
Oyan
mother fucker. Fell into your trap, my fucking ass! You insulting
mother fucking bitch. "Wannabe Hacker" talk?! If hackers talk like
that...then it's hacker talk, I myself am not a hacker. I just use it
cause I use it, stupid bitch...think you know so much about me when
you don't. Fuck you! You asked the fucking question...so I thought
I'd be nice enough and try to explain it to you, stupid bitch.
Well...you really must be one stupid bitch...cause there is no way
that I could have known that was a rhetorical question coming from
you! You bitch, are in the wrong! You are the biggest bitch I have
ever met...talk about being a snob and shit. SORRY for trying to help
someone!
"miyagami noriko" <kyok...@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<pFn%6.37$6f3....@news.pacbell.net>...
>
> It is actually "Wannabe Hacker" talk.
>
> Or is it Hax0r still? Probably not. People these days seem to think the more
> fancy they can make words from obscure yet relative geometric shapes, the
> better it makes them. They should learn to stick to the basics and learn
> true application of technique. "man man" is a good start. Most do not even
> know what a hacker really is.
You really are dumb aren't ya? "Oh yea...I really think I'm the shit
now! Talking l33t and all! I'm such a better person cause I am!"
You fucking dumb shit! "man man" What the fuck is that supposed to
be/mean? You obviously don't know what hacker is....
> On the other hand, I assume your experiance with computers goes back a
> while. Probably some Windows, little dos, maybe some Linux (probably apolo
> kernal and later - Circa RH5).
>
> I used to design for Sun. Unix is my prefered system, no GUI - pure command
> line. I regularly hack Linux (Currently running two here), Alpha, an old
> Microport, and of course my Sun.
Try and hack my computer you bitch. You aren't l33t or shit. Hackers
don't brag. That right there shows that you are a wannabe.
> The funny thing was that you answered the question, though. It was never
> meant to be answered. It was meant to be rhetorical and to pull you into a
> conversation if you were as egotistical as I assumed. Seems like you fell
> for it better than I could have ever guessed.
So sor-fucking-ry for trying to help! Second of all, I can't read the
stress in words...or your fucking body language over the fucking net!
So how the fuck was I supposed to know it was rhetorical? Stupid
fuck. ...So trying to help someone makes me egotistical?! That just
proves you know nothing about me and that you are one stupid assuming
bitch.
> Doesnt matter anyway. See you can change words and sentance structure to
> sound cool. They tried that in my era, they tried that in the 70's, in the
> 60's, in the 90's. All it does is make fools of people. I remember when
> Valley was just the same as all this other new talk. It all goes the same
> way eventually.
You're wrong there...changing words around shit does not make fools
out of ppl. You know...it's the language of today...it's how ppl
today talk and shit...you stupid bitch. Get with the fucking times!
> As for intelegent dialect. I almost forgot we are speaking English. The
> entire intelegence is lost right there.
That was a "rhetorical" question when I asked you about you and your
stupid "intelligent dialect"...you stupid bitch. You are the
biggest...not to mention most rude person (you are a fucking
snob...not to mention bitch too) I have ever come across. You think
you know everything...when you actually know jack shit. "Oh yea...two
posts and you already know my whole life!" Fucking bitch you are!!!!
Should go fucking mail bomb you're account or something, piss me off
so fucking much! So fucking rude! Thinking you me, and
everything...fuck you. YOU DON'T! All you do know is that you are
pissing me off with your rudeness and you stupid assumptions! THAT'S
ALL YOU KNOW ABOUT ME! Fucking insulting me! WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU
GET OFF INSULTING ME?! AND START SAYING SHIT THAT I'M NOT?! Why
don't you go back to where you came from?!?! Stupid bitch. You
insult me, I'm gonna be right back at you in your fucking face! "The
entire intelligence is lost right here." What the fuck is that
supposed to mean? SPEAK PROPER ENGLISH PLEASE! MAKE SOME FUCKING
SENSE, PLEASE! You're so smart and shit...my ass...that didn't make
sense one fucking bit. "All your base belong to us!" However the
fuck that goes...I don't give a crap. You have pissed me off like no
one has before! I am so sick of your shit already! You are the first
fucking person I fucking dislike on this NG! I want you to get this
through your fucking thick skull of yours: You know jack shit about
me...except for the fact that I am royaly PISSED OFF at you!
Oyan - MACROSS II 0WNZ!
Mad Dog
Oyan wrote:
> First of all you stupid bitch, I was trying to be helpful. Stupid
> mother fucker. Fell into your trap, my fucking ass! You insulting
> mother fucking bitch. "Wannabe Hacker" talk?! If hackers talk like
> that...then it's hacker talk, I myself am not a hacker. I just use it
> cause I use it, stupid bitch...think you know so much about me when
> you don't. Fuck you! You asked the fucking question...so I thought
> I'd be nice enough and try to explain it to you, stupid bitch.
> Well...you really must be one stupid bitch...cause there is no way
> that I could have known that was a rhetorical question coming from
> you! You bitch, are in the wrong! You are the biggest bitch I have
> ever met...talk about being a snob and shit. SORRY for trying to help
> someone!
>
> "miyagami noriko" <kyok...@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<pFn%6.37$6f3....@news.pacbell.net>...
> >
> > It is actually "Wannabe Hacker" talk.
> >
> > Or is it Hax0r still? Probably not. People these days seem to think the more
> > fancy they can make words from obscure yet relative geometric shapes, the
> > better it makes them. They should learn to stick to the basics and learn
> > true application of technique. "man man" is a good start. Most do not even
> > know what a hacker really is.
>
> You really are dumb aren't ya? "Oh yea...I really think I'm the shit
> now! Talking l33t and all! I'm such a better person cause I am!"
> You fucking dumb shit! "man man" What the fuck is that supposed to
"man" is Unix/Linux/SunOS command that is complicated and very difficult to learn (snickers). Some people
think that it displays reference manual pages on some topic. the syntax for use is:
man <sometopic>
However, this is not true. The real result of the man man command is to... TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!! (stupid
uppercase crap with copious exclamation marks. NOTE: each of which are a newbie trademark)
"man man" as you probably have figured out by now, displays manual pages describing how to display manual
pages for the previously mentioned Operating Systems 8-). "man man" is almost as funny as the error
message, "keyboard not detected, press F1" (now there's a paradox).
PS guy This good grammar got.
PS Exclamation marks guy This like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Godmars
@hotmail.com says...
> First of all you stupid bitch,
*PLONK*
This is what happens when you let children have access to computers
without parental supervision.
--
God
miyagami noriko
on it and pulled it out of hiding.
Just a note or two:
Real Hackers do not talk like that.
Oh and "man man" its a *nix thing. People who know *nix understand it. In
case you really wish to know I will fill you in. See in most *nix
(Unix/Linux) based machines the System Administrator knows the value of
making sure the Manual gets installed along with the OS. Some, like myself
restrict use of the Manual to SU and to root, just because we do not like
people having access to the documentation. People are basicly stupid and the
less they know about the machine the better as it allows them to make less
mistakes.
Anyway the command to access the Manual is :
man [-acdfFhkKtwW] [-m system] [-p string] [-C con
fig_file] [-M path] [-P pager] [-S section_list] [section]
name ...
but in order to understand that it is most helpul to know how to access the
Manual pages on how to access the Manual. Hence the command "man man", or in
english, "show me the manual on how to use the manual command". Simple but
effective.
To answer another point, a Hacker is:
A slang term for a computer enthusiast, i.e., a person who enjoys learning
programming languages and computer systems and can often be considered an
expert on the subject(s). Among professional programmers, depending on how
it used, the term can be either complimentary or derogatory, although it is
developing an increasingly derogatory connotation. The pejorative sense of
hacker is becoming more prominent largely because the popular press has
coopted the term to refer to individuals who gain unauthorized access to
computer systems for the purpose of stealing and corrupting data. Hackers,
themselves, maintain that the proper term for such individuals is cracker.
The rest of your long winded string of obscenities comes down to not much
more than saying you are angry at me for trying to maintain an objective
format of conversation while utilizing a non obscenity format that is aimed
at a level of people who have some form of education. If you wish to
translate that into thinking that means I am saying you have no education,
then you may translate it any way you wish.
Just keep in mind that the translation is done by you. I have no power over
you lest you give me that poower. And in your statement claiming I have made
you angry illustrates how you have surrendured that power to me. You could
easily not allow anything to anger you, but it is far more easy for you to
relinquish responsibility and surrender that power to another.
Thank you for reading this,
Oh and by the way:
"Unsolicited email sent to this account is subject to a processing and
storage fee of US$100 per item. Invoices and payment information will be
sent upon receipt."
And I can do that legally.
- Miyagami Noriko
"Oyan" <Oih...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93d4ed1.01070...@posting.google.com...
Mad Dog
8-)
miyagami noriko
"Mad Dog" <madd...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:3B410EF4...@rocketmail.com...
Keith
>be of no value gets ignored. Standard legal practice there.
i.e. censorship. Using a copout is too cliche, if you can't stand up, at least
be honest about it.
>This is a business here Keith, I apply the filters because I have people
>that work for me that I protect from certian things such as yourself. If one
>of my employees is offended by it, I must use methods to protect them from
>it. Its a legal obligation. I do not expect you to understand those
>matters.
Seems to me there are some major flaws in your argument. First being the
question of why you're playing around on the internet during work time to begin
with, self employed or no. Second, why are you employee's playing around on the
internet during work time. And most importantly, why would your employee's be
playing around on the internet on your ISP log-in, let alone playing around in
anything private of yours in the first place. Seems to me you've got some
serious security issues to be ironed out that span far beyond worrying about
your employee's seeing things that they shouldn't have access to seeing in the
first place. As such, your argument doesn't hold up.
>In fact I do not expect you to understand anything beyond your own
>inflated self belief in your own words.
Of course considering you judge Robotech to have a viable existence, not much
can be said for your expectations in the first place.
>I also am quite tired of you touting the words "Artistic Integrity" in the
>manner you. Very much like Species Integrity as was touted by the Nazi's of
>WWII. Another thing you are not capable of comprehending.
You've hit U.S. otaku cliche prime #1, comparing anything to Nazi's. No.2 being
doing so in such a blatantly wrong way. As a species the only way to stay
healthy is by vairety & integration. Art however is an entirely different
subject, being something born of the hearts & minds of people. It literally
belongs to those who create it, not some un-creative idiot whom thinks just
because he makes an underhanded deal he's a creative genious. Your condemnation
of my defining for you the meaning of art just goes to continually show your
blarring ignorance. It's the very practice that you're defending which rings of
nazi-ism, changing something & deleting aspects to suit the needs of the
supposed prejudice masses that can't accept what's familiar. If those are the
kinds of practices you wish to defend, then you've absolutely no business
calling anyone a Nazi, let alone me.
>Many times you have attacked me in this thread because I defend Carl, yet
>hold no love of him. I have seen the world before him. I have seen the world
>after him. If you were not there, in the world of anime THEN, then you have
>no right to be speaking in this forum about him or his work.
The world of anime was in flux period during the period which he arose. He had
nothing to do with anything except to perpetuate the same old actions that
those who came before him did, as did those who came after him. The TV anime
market has remained up through the 90's (though slowly to a lessor degree
beyond) the same as it's always been. Dub it, scrub it of any foreign content,
and change it to appear familiar to the idiot masses, not giving them the
chance to prove they're not. All Carl Macek did was not make the quality
already inherent in Macross not completely & totally un-recognizeable. And even
then, only because there was so much that could be changed. It was his lack of
originality & keeping what few aspects of the original story he did, the
original aspects created by others, not him, that led Robotech to any remote
popularity. The credit therin lies with the original creators of Macross, not
anyone involved with Robotech. Their changes were dramatically unnecessary &
extremely excessive. The audacity with which they claim credit is mind boggling
at best.
Bottom line is that mainstream anime did not pick up until a good 5-6 years
later, which mainstream inserts of pokemon, Sailor Moon, DBZ, & the un-edited
(though still badly dubbed) video market. Basic cable networks showing anime
movies (yes some of them badly dubbed by Macek) didn't hurt either. But the
popularity of anime during & after Robotech was miniscule in the face of the
much more popular of the time Transformers & G.I. Joe of the time. And it faded
back just as quickly.
>And I do not
>mean being alive and watching it on TV when you were 6 or 10 or however old
>you were. I mean actively spreading the gospel of anime. Being an active
>force in the world of Anime. After all, one can despise a creature yet still
>respect it. Respect is the first form of hatred, as well as fear and love.
>More things your are not capable of understanding.
You'll kindly leave the sly inclusion of abstract concepts to me, as you aren't
even remotely skilled in their use.
>Just so you know: You are beginning to bore me with your repeditive circular
>phrasings that utilize nothing but your own words to back them up. Unlike
>God, Keith is not capable of saying "Let there be light" and have light
>appearing.
Unlike god, I actually exist. And unlike yourself, I don't attempt to discredit
with hypocracy. You can accuse me of having no evidence, and yet you provide
none yourself. My argument lies in artistic integrity, morality, and common
sense fact. Yours lies with the same old tired propoganda machine fed to you by
Macek & HG for years.
>All things of intelect understand the need for tangible evidence
>and cited sources to back up any and all claims made. Unless, of course,
>their usual social commentarys is comprised of "Would you like fries with
>that order?"
And yet you still provide none, though your intentional choice to ignore mine
hardly falls under the catagory of lack of source.
>On the other hand, if you can produce for me a statement, of traceable
>origin, from Big West or Studio Nue that backs your claims of what Robotech
>did to Macross. Then I will perhaps take the time to possibly re-examine my
>stance morally. But as it stands, legally, HG was in full rights through
>their deal with Tatsunoko.
The tangibility lies in the very attempt at existence of Robotech, and it's
easily readily available for you to witness. Your continued support of it, and
misguided belief in it however clouds whatever reason you may posses, and puts
you to be a hypocrite for your supposed dispisal of such practices that you're
defending.
>AKA: Your homework asignment for this night is found in the paragraph above.
You're no teacher, as you've constent spewing of repetitious b.s. is hardly a
lesson.
>I fully expect you to do your usual and tell me off and try to hide behind
>your bravado.
>
> - Miyagami Noriko
Funny that, I was about to accuse you of the same.
>>Still AOL Keith... Im beginning to understand why yopu speak the way you do.
An ISP is an ISP, and you've a length to go before you can understand my words,
first you have to actually open your eyes to something other than your faulty
beliefs.
miyagami noriko
> >I address what holds any form of worthyness to address. Anything I deem
to
> >be of no value gets ignored. Standard legal practice there.
>
> i.e. censorship. Using a copout is too cliche, if you can't stand up, at
least
> be honest about it.
>
Accusations of Clichehood are more old than any other accusation in this
world. You have apparently no understanding of legalities. One of the most
common business practices is to address only the items of merit. To address
the others gives a false strength to the individual that they would normally
not have. That leads to a false security, and even worse - the potential for
high costs in court.
> >This is a business here Keith, I apply the filters because I have people
> >that work for me that I protect from certian things such as yourself. If
one
> >of my employees is offended by it, I must use methods to protect them
from
> >it. Its a legal obligation. I do not expect you to understand those
> >matters.
>
> Seems to me there are some major flaws in your argument. First being the
> question of why you're playing around on the internet during work time to
begin
> with, self employed or no. Second, why are you employee's playing around
on the
> internet during work time. And most importantly, why would your employee's
be
> playing around on the internet on your ISP log-in, let alone playing
around in
> anything private of yours in the first place. Seems to me you've got some
> serious security issues to be ironed out that span far beyond worrying
about
> your employee's seeing things that they shouldn't have access to seeing in
the
> first place. As such, your argument doesn't hold up.
>
I more than play on the internet during work time. I chat through multiple
systems, deal with email, and a great deal of file transferes through
different systems as well. At any given time, day or night, I am involved in
over 50 - 150 different conversations that are being carried out. 95% of it
is business related, either contact with my competition, my suppliers, or
just with my clients. I do not just take their money and it ends at that. My
business includes much more.
The other 5% is personal related. Now every single one of my employees has
access to the internet through my server. They have access to all the same
things I do. Unlike most places I know I have llearned that a happy employee
is a good one. They are therefore granted conscessions that my competition
would never allow. However I do maintain certian filters that are there to
protect them. To continue on that, I am also a fair person. I have never
asked anything of anyone that I am also not willing to do. Therfore if I
apply filters to them, I apply those same filters to my systems. Though it
is not a common business practice, it has increased my employees loyaalty
and belief in my company over a thousand fold. All people want is to be
treated as equals.
> >In fact I do not expect you to understand anything beyond your own
> >inflated self belief in your own words.
>
> Of course considering you judge Robotech to have a viable existence, not
much
> can be said for your expectations in the first place.
>
I do not give it a viable existance. I merely say it exists.
> >I also am quite tired of you touting the words "Artistic Integrity" in
the
> >manner you. Very much like Species Integrity as was touted by the Nazi's
of
> >WWII. Another thing you are not capable of comprehending.
>
> You've hit U.S. otaku cliche prime #1, comparing anything to Nazi's. No.2
being
> doing so in such a blatantly wrong way. As a species the only way to stay
> healthy is by vairety & integration. Art however is an entirely different
> subject, being something born of the hearts & minds of people. It
literally
> belongs to those who create it, not some un-creative idiot whom thinks
just
> because he makes an underhanded deal he's a creative genious. Your
condemnation
> of my defining for you the meaning of art just goes to continually show
your
> blarring ignorance. It's the very practice that you're defending which
rings of
> nazi-ism, changing something & deleting aspects to suit the needs of the
> supposed prejudice masses that can't accept what's familiar. If those are
the
> kinds of practices you wish to defend, then you've absolutely no business
> calling anyone a Nazi, let alone me.
>
I use the Nazi's system simply because in this isolated instance it applies.
If there was another major holocaust that was created based upon species
integrity, then I would have used it. I had considered using the Crusades,
more on religious integrity and profit. But You seemed like a non-believer
so its impact would have been surprisingly dwindled.
Was a bit more than 5 - 6 years there.
> >And I do not
> >mean being alive and watching it on TV when you were 6 or 10 or however
old
> >you were. I mean actively spreading the gospel of anime. Being an active
> >force in the world of Anime. After all, one can despise a creature yet
still
> >respect it. Respect is the first form of hatred, as well as fear and
love.
> >More things your are not capable of understanding.
>
> You'll kindly leave the sly inclusion of abstract concepts to me, as you
aren't
> even remotely skilled in their use.
>
Abstract you call it because you were not there. You are nothing more than a
revisionist historian who is taking the works of others and placing a spin
on it to make it sound real, and then trying to get people to accept it.
History is a field of study for those who were not there. To those that were
it is called Reality.
> >Just so you know: You are beginning to bore me with your repeditive
circular
> >phrasings that utilize nothing but your own words to back them up. Unlike
> >God, Keith is not capable of saying "Let there be light" and have light
> >appearing.
>
> Unlike god, I actually exist. And unlike yourself, I don't attempt to
discredit
> with hypocracy. You can accuse me of having no evidence, and yet you
provide
> none yourself. My argument lies in artistic integrity, morality, and
common
> sense fact. Yours lies with the same old tired propoganda machine fed to
you by
> Macek & HG for years.
>
I have produced many arguements that have factual information behind them.
You have attempted to diffuse them with a simple Cossac Dance.
> >All things of intelect understand the need for tangible evidence
> >and cited sources to back up any and all claims made. Unless, of course,
> >their usual social commentarys is comprised of "Would you like fries with
> >that order?"
>
> And yet you still provide none, though your intentional choice to ignore
mine
> hardly falls under the catagory of lack of source.
>
On the other hand, You are the one throwing accusations. I believe in the
world of a Democratic Republic, it is the duty of the prosecution to produce
evidence that is beyond a shadow of a doubt convincing enough to a panel of
individuals in order to proove guilt.
> >On the other hand, if you can produce for me a statement, of traceable
> >origin, from Big West or Studio Nue that backs your claims of what
Robotech
> >did to Macross. Then I will perhaps take the time to possibly re-examine
my
> >stance morally. But as it stands, legally, HG was in full rights through
> >their deal with Tatsunoko.
>
> The tangibility lies in the very attempt at existence of Robotech, and
it's
> easily readily available for you to witness. Your continued support of it,
and
> misguided belief in it however clouds whatever reason you may posses, and
puts
> you to be a hypocrite for your supposed dispisal of such practices that
you're
> defending.
>
AKA: You are incapable of producing such documentation.
> >AKA: Your homework asignment for this night is found in the paragraph
above.
>
> You're no teacher, as you've constent spewing of repetitious b.s. is
hardly a
> lesson.
>
That statement is something you can not back up. I do also still teach on
ocassion.
> >I fully expect you to do your usual and tell me off and try to hide
behind
> >your bravado.
> >
> > - Miyagami Noriko
>
> Funny that, I was about to accuse you of the same.
>
In sales they call that a "Boomerang". It is a nice solid technique, but it
usually needs to be followed through with s supporting statement or else you
will never sell your intended prey on the line you are selling.
> >>Still AOL Keith... Im beginning to understand why yopu speak the way you
do.
>
> An ISP is an ISP, and you've a length to go before you can understand my
words,
> first you have to actually open your eyes to something other than your
faulty
> beliefs.
>
An ISP is not an ISP. AOL is legendary for its inferiority of all processes
other than its AIM program and its lure to those who wish to Cyber in
chatrooms.
Mecha-Man
such a beatiful day. ^_^:;;;
-Fory, The Mysterious Lurker
"But who here hasn't wished that they could fix politics simply by jumping in a
giant mecha and going to Washington?"
Keith
>world. You have apparently no understanding of legalities. One of the most
>common business practices is to address only the items of merit. To address
>the others gives a false strength to the individual that they would normally
>not have. That leads to a false security, and even worse - the potential for
>high costs in court.
Apparently you have no understanding except for the B.S. of business, as double
talking & avoiding the points may be acceptable to whatever idiot crowed you're
used to, but those of use who actually pay attention to what's being debated
know better. Writing off points you can't counter and or can't understand
hardly takes away merit from them. It just makes you appear to be afraid of
answering or addressing.
>I more than play on the internet during work time. I chat through multiple
>systems, deal with email, and a great deal of file transferes through
>different systems as well. At any given time, day or night, I am involved in
>over 50 - 150 different conversations that are being carried out. 95% of it
>is business related, either contact with my competition, my suppliers, or
>just with my clients. I do not just take their money and it ends at that. My
>business includes much more.
i.e. You're playing around on the internet during work time.
>The other 5% is personal related. Now every single one of my employees has
>access to the internet through my server. They have access to all the same
>things I do. Unlike most places I know I have llearned that a happy employee
>is a good one. They are therefore granted conscessions that my competition
>would never allow. However I do maintain certian filters that are there to
>protect them. To continue on that, I am also a fair person. I have never
>asked anything of anyone that I am also not willing to do. Therfore if I
>apply filters to them, I apply those same filters to my systems. Though it
>is not a common business practice, it has increased my employees loyaalty
>and belief in my company over a thousand fold. All people want is to be
>treated as equals.
Being treated as equals, and snooping through someones activities is an
entirely different thing. If your employee's are browsing on your dime into
area's that require filters, then its their liability in doing so. Stands to
reason they shouldn't be there in the first place, censoring them from things
they shouldn't be doing in the first place hardly makes sense, let alone
claiming liability for them. Though the question of why they would be snooping
through your newsgroup posts, or you in the process of posting also begs some
security questions. The whole matter in itself could be solved quickly & easily
with a signed release form from each of them waving liability for any offense
taken while snooping through other peoples business.
>I do not give it a viable existance. I merely say it exists.
And in doing so, combined with trying to justify the actions of those who made
it, you attempt to validate its existence.
>I use the Nazi's system simply because in this isolated instance it applies.
>If there was another major holocaust that was created based upon species
>integrity, then I would have used it. I had considered using the Crusades,
>more on religious integrity and profit. But You seemed like a non-believer
>so its impact would have been surprisingly dwindled.
I don't believe in the actions of Nazi's either, who's leadership & beleif was
also based in religion, so your particular choice there is no more appropriate
than that of the crusades. Your faulty comparison isn't even thought out well
enough to begin to show any minute detail of similarity. In doing so you also
demean those who died at the hands of the Nazi's, as the supremely major flaw
in your argument is in forgetting I'm speaking of something which takes someone
elses art & mutilates it, whlie the Nazi's took an entire people and claimed
their existence to not be justified because of race. Robotech is not a race,
its not something that can exist on its own, it's something born of lack of
creativity. Do not demean the Jews, soldiers, or anyone with common sense that
died at the hands of the Nazi's with your feeble little attempt at name
calling. I share nothing in common with that belief system, and your use of it
shows your complete lack of understanding period.
>Was a bit more than 5 - 6 years there.
5-6 years is a good estimate of when things "actually" began moving. Your lack
of actual counter on this issue in general isn't doing much for your argument.
>Abstract you call it because you were not there. You are nothing more than a
>revisionist historian who is taking the works of others and placing a spin
>on it to make it sound real, and then trying to get people to accept it.
>History is a field of study for those who were not there. To those that were
>it is called Reality.
You're calling me a revisionist? You who attempt to place Macek at the godhood
of anime in the U.S. Your delusions of his actions, let alone his practices are
the true attempts to re-write history. I could give less of a crap where you
were at the time, as you've obviously a skewed view based on the same old
pompus propoganda put out by Macek and his like. What you call your "reality"
is nothing more than your own personal arrogence in trying to place yourself in
a position of noteriety. History is for everyone, as is the truth in history.
Whatever your own personal history is, seems to have gained some dust &
cobbwebs over time.
>I have produced many arguements that have factual information behind them.
>You have attempted to diffuse them with a simple Cossac Dance.
You have produced nothing but shallow claims of being neither here nor there.
You've countered solid arguments with nothing but windy personal attacks,
entire deletion of paragraphs, & transparent evasion tactics.
>On the other hand, You are the one throwing accusations. I believe in the
>world of a Democratic Republic, it is the duty of the prosecution to produce
>evidence that is beyond a shadow of a doubt convincing enough to a panel of
>individuals in order to proove guilt.
Your implication being that I'm of the side needing to provide evidence, when
the evidence of my argument is well known to anyone who's paid even a minute
bit of attention to anime within the last decade, let alone the last 2. Do you
even recall what it is you're arguing against? As it's your side, the defensive
side, to provide evidence beyond the shadow of a doubt of why Macek & HG are
"not" guilty. Your claims of being wherever it is you claim to be, true or
otherwise garner you no ground.
>AKA: You are incapable of producing such documentation.
The documentation is Robotech itself. Have you seen it?
>That statement is something you can not back up. I do also still teach on
>ocassion.
In the environement of this debate, the statement holds truth. If you want to
go somewhere else & play teacher, that's entirely up to you, it however doesn't
make you any more one than you aren't when you're here.
>In sales they call that a "Boomerang". It is a nice solid technique, but it
>usually needs to be followed through with s supporting statement or else you
>will never sell your intended prey on the line you are selling.
Why provide what you've so graciously done for me? Just about everyone here has
called you on your uppity brand of arrogence. And while I too can be called
arrogent, what I can't be called is someone who tries to use belittling of
other peoples status, or the same old "I was there, you were not" that's
familiar iwth anyone insecure enough to use it. You hold no special status, be
you 5 or 50, or had you been on an uncharted desert isle, or right on the back
of Macek himself.
>An ISP is not an ISP. AOL is legendary for its inferiority of all processes
>other than its AIM program and its lure to those who wish to Cyber in
>chatrooms.
An ISP is an ISP, even AOL. You've already shown your oldschool hacker-centric
attitude here with Oyan, and just as you've tried with your supposed anime
"history," it draws no more care here than anything else you've claimed. I
could care less if you wrote dos itself, or used a needle to make the very
first punch card, such insecure claims of status (again, be them true or
otherwise) hold no clout with this crowed. As for this particular issue, a tool
is only as good as the person using it, AOL is a tool like any other. Just
because it has more popularity & widespread novelty use than other ISP's hardly
unjustifies its existence.
It's not like it stole the code & servers of 3 pre-existing ISP's & tried to
mesh them into one afterall
Oyan
about a lot of things...a lot...and this I know he is right
about...it's not your intentions ppl look at, it's the outcome of your
actions, not the intentions of them.... Second of all...I don't need
a history of what a hacker is and all.... If I did...I would have
made a post about it...subject would have said "What is a hacker?!"!
Thirdly...I'm not the kind of person who would mail bomb somebody's
account or do anything malicious to anybody...I consider myself a
pacifist...not a complete pacifist...cause I will retaliate
verbally...and I will defend myself...but I haven't had the chance to
do so yet...anyway. I don't know why I'm telling you all of this.
Last of all...I've been taking so much shit in the past...and I did
nothing about it...and well...I'm tired of taking it...so I certainly
won't be taking any of your shit, Ms. Miyagami Noriko. And another
thing...to me it sounds like you thought I was gonna send you porn and
shit...psh...that would just be a waste of my time...also, I'm not
afraid of you...if that's what you were trying to do...intimidate
me...psh.
Oyan - Macross II 0wnz!
> Oh and by the way:
Oyan
Mad Dog <madd...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message news:<3B410EF4...@rocketmail.com>...
Oyan
"All people want is to be treated as equals."
Sure doesn't seem like you believe that.... Doesn't look like you are
treating others here as your equal...acting like a snob and shit....
And Keith, I'm no fucking poser, I myself dislike posers.
Oyan - Macros II 0wnz!
miyagami noriko
I am impressed, you are actually employing better techniques and making
points that leave little room but to address them. So here goes, but again
remember the standard spelling disclaimer.
"Keith" <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010704025511...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
> >Accusations of Clichehood are more old than any other accusation in this
> >world. You have apparently no understanding of legalities. One of the
most
> >common business practices is to address only the items of merit. To
address
> >the others gives a false strength to the individual that they would
normally
> >not have. That leads to a false security, and even worse - the potential
for
> >high costs in court.
>
> Apparently you have no understanding except for the B.S. of business, as
double
> talking & avoiding the points may be acceptable to whatever idiot crowed
you're
> used to, but those of use who actually pay attention to what's being
debated
> know better. Writing off points you can't counter and or can't understand
> hardly takes away merit from them. It just makes you appear to be afraid
of
> answering or addressing.
>
You are placing me in a bad position here. See I have a very low opinion of
people as they have proven to me time and again to not be capable of many
common sense actions. However Everything I say and do here that relates to
such a concept can come back to bite me again later.
In business we are constantly having to balance many issues. Every person in
the world wants to get the most they can with as little expendature as
possible. These expendatures may be in money, time, thought, or a multitude
of things. A matter of conveniance more than anything. Now the accusation of
sidestepping due to inability to answer or understand is as false as your
knowledge of the 70's through personal experiance, something you know as
well as I do.
My choice to not answwer things is based on much more than you know, and
until you have some experiance in reality, not just this forum, you probably
will not know. I persoanlly am used to dealing with people of a far higher
calibre than your level of thought. Most of them with multiple degrees in
multiple fields, and the rest professionals in their fields. The average
person is not a type that I deal with very often other than in forums like
this. Usually they are incapable of keeping up with me, and to be honest the
worship syndrome most of them exibit annoys me to no end.
The other issue, as I mentioned before, is a matter of time. To me time is
more than money. Every moment I spend in the day is irreplacable. This
message for example is being typed out at 12:20am Pacific. I could be in the
bedroom where I belong as I have spent almost no time with Kitty, but
instead I am here typing this out to you. Now you should be old enough to
understand that She has much more of a draw to me than you do. Therefore I
will freely take the liberty to truncate messages I would normally answer in
an Offline Conferance setting.
Probably makes no sense to you, but I am not being to specific.
> >I more than play on the internet during work time. I chat through
multiple
> >systems, deal with email, and a great deal of file transferes through
> >different systems as well. At any given time, day or night, I am involved
in
> >over 50 - 150 different conversations that are being carried out. 95% of
it
> >is business related, either contact with my competition, my suppliers, or
> >just with my clients. I do not just take their money and it ends at that.
My
> >business includes much more.
>
> i.e. You're playing around on the internet during work time.
>
You obviously have no concept of the business applications and overall
usefullness of the internet for communication. At your age you should.
Through the use of the internet for many of my communications I have in the
last year been able to shave off over $130k in expenses that I would have
normally incurred if I had used more traditional methods. That does not
include the time saved in that figure either. It used to take 6 -7 days for
paperwork to reach England (for example). Then they would review it, have a
spot of tea with their lawyers, sign it, then return it taking another 6 - 7
days, not counting weekends of course. Including the lawyers it could take
up to 30 days for me to get answers back.
Now I have a real time response system in place. I get the same answers back
often withing 12-24 hours. I have everything networked and in place where
answers, contracts, conferences, and much more can all be done at a moments
notice. Email is fast becoming obsolete for me other than dealings with the
public, and I am slowly working on having other people handle more and more
of them.
They do not snoop. I use the server to filter any and all messages that
enter the network through any means. That means if it enters on its way to
one of them, it is treated the same way as if it is on its way to me. On the
other hand my server spools it all into a nice file for me to review if I
ever want to.
On the other hand, a signed waiver has no meaning in this. It could possibly
jold up in court, but since I am responsible for them, and what they do
through the server I tend to take the responsibility instead of dumping it
off on some piece of paper.
> >I do not give it a viable existance. I merely say it exists.
>
> And in doing so, combined with trying to justify the actions of those who
made
> it, you attempt to validate its existence.
>
True or not, it does not change that it exists.
Odd thing, almost sounds like you call me racist there. It demeans them
none whatsoever. The simple fact is they died for a misguided cause. Death
is quite possibly the only fact of life that we are all guarenteed. Accept
it, or die in fear.
As a side note, Kitty is Jewish. I am quite close to members of her family
that were very young when they were in the concentration camps. Trying to
claim I demean them is about the lowest you have gone yet.
> >Was a bit more than 5 - 6 years there.
>
> 5-6 years is a good estimate of when things "actually" began moving. Your
lack
> of actual counter on this issue in general isn't doing much for your
argument.
>
Let me see. Anime started mainstream United States around 1995. Before that
it was generally seen as "those weird cartoons". Even then in 1995 it was
mostly just Akira, Sailor Moon and Robotech. It was more around 1997 that
the actual push by the Cartoon Network and Sci-Fi channel started making it
better known. Around then was Sailor Moon (Bad DiC Dub), Technoman, and
more... I seem to recall a bad dub of Vampire Hunter D in 1996 on Sci-Fi,
and the same year there were some bad dubs of Dominion Tank Police released
on HBO.
This is of course ignoring that the older classics like Star Blazers, Speed
Racer, Battle of the Planets, and Voltron were still playing in all their
badly dubbed glory in various places around the english speaking world.
Contrast this with the Release of Robotech, you will find alot more time
passed than you quoted.
> >Abstract you call it because you were not there. You are nothing more
than a
> >revisionist historian who is taking the works of others and placing a
spin
> >on it to make it sound real, and then trying to get people to accept it.
> >History is a field of study for those who were not there. To those that
were
> >it is called Reality.
>
> You're calling me a revisionist? You who attempt to place Macek at the
godhood
> of anime in the U.S. Your delusions of his actions, let alone his
practices are
> the true attempts to re-write history. I could give less of a crap where
you
> were at the time, as you've obviously a skewed view based on the same old
> pompus propoganda put out by Macek and his like. What you call your
"reality"
> is nothing more than your own personal arrogence in trying to place
yourself in
> a position of noteriety. History is for everyone, as is the truth in
history.
> Whatever your own personal history is, seems to have gained some dust &
> cobbwebs over time.
>
Again you illustrate your Revisionist techniques by your attempt to rewrite
my opinions of Carl. I really do not wish to go back and requote all of the
times I have stated my feelings about him.
> >I have produced many arguements that have factual information behind
them.
> >You have attempted to diffuse them with a simple Cossac Dance.
>
> You have produced nothing but shallow claims of being neither here nor
there.
> You've countered solid arguments with nothing but windy personal attacks,
> entire deletion of paragraphs, & transparent evasion tactics.
>
I love this deletion accusation. I never rarely delete anything unless it
has not been addressed for two or three messages. When doing so I always
place the common <snip> in place to mark that I have deleted there.
> >On the other hand, You are the one throwing accusations. I believe in the
> >world of a Democratic Republic, it is the duty of the prosecution to
produce
> >evidence that is beyond a shadow of a doubt convincing enough to a panel
of
> >individuals in order to proove guilt.
>
> Your implication being that I'm of the side needing to provide evidence,
when
> the evidence of my argument is well known to anyone who's paid even a
minute
> bit of attention to anime within the last decade, let alone the last 2. Do
you
> even recall what it is you're arguing against? As it's your side, the
defensive
> side, to provide evidence beyond the shadow of a doubt of why Macek & HG
are
> "not" guilty. Your claims of being wherever it is you claim to be, true or
> otherwise garner you no ground.
>
Not only are you ignorant of Anime, but apparently of law.
Let me enlighten you. The panel is commonly called Jurors. They are to be in
number of 12, and to be chosen from the peers of the defendant. They must be
impartial with no kowledge of the defendant or the accusations beforehand.
That means that the Prosecution, aka the people trying to proove guilt, also
known as District Attorneys, must convince these people not only that a
crime has occured, but also that the defendant has been the one who commited
it.
The defense needs only produce a doubt in the minds of the impartial panel
that leads them to believe the defendant is not guilty.
The standard process is the Prosecution produces its arguements first, then
the defense attempts to break those arguements down. Then when it is over,
closing statements are made, the panel retires to a private room (commonly
called deliberation) where they decide their opinion. This is called a
verdict and it must be unamous. There is no majority, they agree as one or
the do not agree at all.
In cases where there is no agreement of yes or no, then the judge usually
will force them to continue until they reach a verdict, sometimes not
allowing them to go home (sequestering), or will declare a "hung Jury" and
then the whole process starts over again.
I assume you know what a judge is...
> >AKA: You are incapable of producing such documentation.
>
> The documentation is Robotech itself. Have you seen it?
>
Again you throw up a puff of smoke to hide behind. You have no
documentation. You are incapable of getting said documentation. You have
nothing but your own pathetic string of words to hide behind now.
Funny thing is that a document such as that would end this discussion right
now and prove you right. But no document as such exists.
> >That statement is something you can not back up. I do also still teach on
> >ocassion.
>
> In the environement of this debate, the statement holds truth. If you want
to
> go somewhere else & play teacher, that's entirely up to you, it however
doesn't
> make you any more one than you aren't when you're here.
>
Spoken like a true westerner. At least you seem to hold some respect for
your father. That is a plus at least.
> >In sales they call that a "Boomerang". It is a nice solid technique, but
it
> >usually needs to be followed through with s supporting statement or else
you
> >will never sell your intended prey on the line you are selling.
>
> Why provide what you've so graciously done for me? Just about everyone
here has
> called you on your uppity brand of arrogence. And while I too can be
called
> arrogent, what I can't be called is someone who tries to use belittling of
> other peoples status, or the same old "I was there, you were not" that's
> familiar iwth anyone insecure enough to use it. You hold no special
status, be
> you 5 or 50, or had you been on an uncharted desert isle, or right on the
back
> of Macek himself.
>
Its called experiance child. You should learn to appriciate it. Some day you
will be able to use it as well.
Oh about the arrogance. Most will say I am. It is more my method of
communication. people do not seem to understand my ways. I am a very quiet
and to the point kind of girl. I do not pad things at all. I have found
westerners are taught to "cushion" things to protect the feelings of people
they deal with. I find that to be boring, and usually I consider that lying
to the individual at hand. Therfore I am blunt with them and speak exactly
what needs to be said in theinterests of being honest with them.
> >An ISP is not an ISP. AOL is legendary for its inferiority of all
processes
> >other than its AIM program and its lure to those who wish to Cyber in
> >chatrooms.
>
> An ISP is an ISP, even AOL. You've already shown your oldschool
hacker-centric
> attitude here with Oyan, and just as you've tried with your supposed anime
> "history," it draws no more care here than anything else you've claimed. I
> could care less if you wrote dos itself, or used a needle to make the very
> first punch card, such insecure claims of status (again, be them true or
> otherwise) hold no clout with this crowed. As for this particular issue, a
tool
> is only as good as the person using it, AOL is a tool like any other. Just
> because it has more popularity & widespread novelty use than other ISP's
hardly
> unjustifies its existence.
>
> It's not like it stole the code & servers of 3 pre-existing ISP's & tried
to
> mesh them into one afterall
>
You do not know the half of it. It has an unstable system that I could write
a 500 page essay on. It uses substandard systems and is built primarily off
of a gnu code. I have in the past used AOL. It is an excelent "Starter
Tool". When I was a guide for them I gquickly grew tired of the idiots I was
forced to deal with. It was not entirely bad, but I find other places to be
more worth my time now.
As to DOS. No I did not write it. I have written an OS, fairly primitive
really, that was designed to take advantage of the Alpha. But I do not have
time to keep up with it now.
Keypunch... Odd you should mention that. It was probably the first thing
that got me interested in machines. At the age of 4 I saw my first keypunch
system and went from there. They are surprisingly simplistic, but still
bring some fun. Sometimes I use one for secure communique with another
person who can still also read them. Great for business confrences to bring
your documentation in keypunch.
Anyway I am going to Kitty now...
She is probably mad at the time I took.
- Miyagami Noriko
miyagami noriko
or your father. I look at intent. In the real world intent is just as
important as final product. That is what makes the difference in degrees of
crime you know? That wonderful thing called intent.
Funny thing is that is what the world of business looks at as well as the
law. Unless your idea of business is Burger King and of the law is a 10 year
stretch, which I am sure would be a cakewalk and something you could do
standing on your head.
About the Hacker definition. I love how you claim I sidestep things, then
get upset at me being more descriptive. If I were looking at it from just
the point of results I would say you are... well I do not wish to insult you
here.
Mail bomb? I do not care. You threatened to, I responded. End of story.
Pacifist? I would choose a different word for that. I myself am a pacifist.
true pacifists allow their attitude to permeate their whole life, not
"everything but language". Where I am from we call that cowardice.
If you want an explanation, I will explain. But you are about to explode at
me again I assume since you want to misunderstand what I have just said.
About this stuff you have taken in the past. I do not care. Deal with it and
go on or die. It is your choice. Just do not cry to me about it.
Finally Porn or no Porn. I dont care. a file is a file, a byte is a byte, a
kilobyte is a kilobyte... and so on. Makes me no difference. Unsolicited
email is Unsolicited email. It all gets treated the same by me. Besides, I
make alot more money off of Hentai of all forms than most other products.
Yaoi is still exceptionally popular.
- Miyagami Noriko
"Oyan" <Oih...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93d4ed1.01070...@posting.google.com...
miyagami noriko
do that no matter how I type. You will see what you want to see, and you
will reespond to those things in the manner you wish to.
That is your choice as well.
- Miyagami Noriko
"Oyan" <Oih...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93d4ed1.01070...@posting.google.com...
Oyan
> I do not care. See I look at things through a different set of eyes than you
> or your father. I look at intent. In the real world intent is just as
> important as final product. That is what makes the difference in degrees of
> crime you know? That wonderful thing called intent.
Have you heard about the case where some kid shot his teacher? He was
saying that he didn't "mean" to kill him, his INTENT was to threaten
the teacher...well...his intentions mean jack shit...he killed
somebody. So what are you would you do? Say..."oh well...your
intentions weren't that bad...so we'll let you off scot free"? Don't
freakin think so...end result is what is looked at.... You are
obviously looking at the wrong thing.
> Funny thing is that is what the world of business looks at as well as the
> law. Unless your idea of business is Burger King and of the law is a 10 year
> stretch, which I am sure would be a cakewalk and something you could do
> standing on your head.
Again, please make some sense.
> About the Hacker definition. I love how you claim I sidestep things, then
> get upset at me being more descriptive. If I were looking at it from just
> the point of results I would say you are... well I do not wish to insult you
> here.
First of all...I said nothing about you "sidestepping" things...dumb
fuck, learn how to read! Second of all...if I want ask you to be more
descirptive...I'll ask...if I don't...don't fucking bother to! If I
need more clarification...I'll ask, okay?! ...And no, continue to
insult me...like you haven't already?
> Mail bomb? I do not care. You threatened to, I responded. End of story.
Therefore you do care, cause you responded. Derr.
> Pacifist? I would choose a different word for that. I myself am a pacifist.
> true pacifists allow their attitude to permeate their whole life, not
> "everything but language". Where I am from we call that cowardice.
> If you want an explanation, I will explain. But you are about to explode at
> me again I assume since you want to misunderstand what I have just said.
You are so not a pacifist. You insult me (in other words: attack
me)...and others...and yet you claim that you are a pacifist? And
Keith was right about a lot of things...one of them is you being the
coward and all...and being a pussy..."please refrain from using bad
language." If you can't handle...tough, deal with it! And wherever
the fuck you were from...I can care less what you call what.
> About this stuff you have taken in the past. I do not care. Deal with it and
> go on or die. It is your choice. Just do not cry to me about it.
You really are stupid aren't ya? I was using my past as an example of
how I'm not gonna be putting up with your crap and just sit here,
dipshit. I fucking did deal it, you stupid fuck.
> Finally Porn or no Porn. I dont care. a file is a file, a byte is a byte, a
> kilobyte is a kilobyte... and so on. Makes me no difference. Unsolicited
> email is Unsolicited email. It all gets treated the same by me. Besides, I
> make alot more money off of Hentai of all forms than most other products.
> Yaoi is still exceptionally popular.
That's nice...I can care less though.
O.D.
(Hey, it's either me or The Other Jeremy or Paul the English Teacher...)
"Oyan" <Oih...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93d4ed1.01070...@posting.google.com...
Oyan
Oyan - Macross II 0wnz
"miyagami noriko" <kyok...@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<zGA07.104$aO1.2...@news.pacbell.net>...
miyagami noriko
news:<9EA07.103$aO1.2...@news.pacbell.net>...
> > I do not care. See I look at things through a different set of eyes than
you
> > or your father. I look at intent. In the real world intent is just as
> > important as final product. That is what makes the difference in degrees
of
> > crime you know? That wonderful thing called intent.
>
> Have you heard about the case where some kid shot his teacher? He was
> saying that he didn't "mean" to kill him, his INTENT was to threaten
> the teacher...well...his intentions mean jack shit...he killed
> somebody. So what are you would you do? Say..."oh well...your
> intentions weren't that bad...so we'll let you off scot free"? Don't
> freakin think so...end result is what is looked at.... You are
> obviously looking at the wrong thing.
>
Simple. He lied. Precident in this country is that the use of a weapon
immediately moves tghe crime up the scale to a first degree crime. It is
universally recognized by the courts and the law that use of a weapon shows
INTENT to kill.
> > Funny thing is that is what the world of business looks at as well as
the
> > law. Unless your idea of business is Burger King and of the law is a 10
year
> > stretch, which I am sure would be a cakewalk and something you could do
> > standing on your head.
>
> Again, please make some sense.
Do not worry. You will understand with time.
>
> > About the Hacker definition. I love how you claim I sidestep things,
then
> > get upset at me being more descriptive. If I were looking at it from
just
> > the point of results I would say you are... well I do not wish to insult
you
> > here.
>
> First of all...I said nothing about you "sidestepping" things...dumb
> fuck, learn how to read! Second of all...if I want ask you to be more
> descirptive...I'll ask...if I don't...don't fucking bother to! If I
> need more clarification...I'll ask, okay?! ...And no, continue to
> insult me...like you haven't already?
>
Sideste is an action in combat one uses to merely dodge an attack. In this
case it is used as a metaphor for other accusations of yours.
> > Mail bomb? I do not care. You threatened to, I responded. End of story.
>
> Therefore you do care, cause you responded. Derr.
>
You seem to be incapable of holding mu;tiple concepts in a single thread. I
guess this means I will have to expand the length of my posts just to
accomodate your inability. Federal law and such when dealing with
disabilities.
> > Pacifist? I would choose a different word for that. I myself am a
pacifist.
> > true pacifists allow their attitude to permeate their whole life, not
> > "everything but language". Where I am from we call that cowardice.
> > If you want an explanation, I will explain. But you are about to explode
at
> > me again I assume since you want to misunderstand what I have just said.
>
> You are so not a pacifist. You insult me (in other words: attack
> me)...and others...and yet you claim that you are a pacifist? And
> Keith was right about a lot of things...one of them is you being the
> coward and all...and being a pussy..."please refrain from using bad
> language." If you can't handle...tough, deal with it! And wherever
> the fuck you were from...I can care less what you call what.
>
I only hold a mirror up to you. Believe it or not these discussions to me
are very little more than a form of recreation. I do use them for minor
training in dealing with different types of people. You would not believe
how helpful you are in my market sudies, let alone research on persoanlity
types.
> > About this stuff you have taken in the past. I do not care. Deal with it
and
> > go on or die. It is your choice. Just do not cry to me about it.
>
> You really are stupid aren't ya? I was using my past as an example of
> how I'm not gonna be putting up with your crap and just sit here,
> dipshit. I fucking did deal it, you stupid fuck.
>
You seem to be doing a very poor job. Might I suggest counseling? I am told
that sometimes after great expense you might actually find yourself.
> > Finally Porn or no Porn. I dont care. a file is a file, a byte is a
byte, a
> > kilobyte is a kilobyte... and so on. Makes me no difference. Unsolicited
> > email is Unsolicited email. It all gets treated the same by me. Besides,
I
> > make alot more money off of Hentai of all forms than most other
products.
> > Yaoi is still exceptionally popular.
>
> That's nice...I can care less though.
>
Good. You learn faster now.
miyagami noriko
different.
- Miyagami Noriko
<no comments follow>
"O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xJU07.125207$W02.2...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
miyagami noriko
Hmmmm... Do I have to hold certian conscessions due to the affirmative
action issues now? That would be a pain.
Paul Santa Cruz
>You *CAN'T* care less. @_@
>(Hey, it's either me or The Other Jeremy or Paul the English Teacher...)
>
Thhhhhhhhhpt!
O.D., you still selling online?
-Paul
Keith
>
>I am impressed, you are actually employing better techniques and making
>points that leave little room but to address them. So here goes, but again
>remember the standard spelling disclaimer.
It's called calling you on your shallow copouts, thought I already explained
that....
>You are placing me in a bad position here. See I have a very low opinion of
>people as they have proven to me time and again to not be capable of many
>common sense actions. However Everything I say and do here that relates to
>such a concept can come back to bite me again later.
What's paranoia have to do with the topic of debate at hand?
>In business we are constantly having to balance many issues. Every person in
>the world wants to get the most they can with as little expendature as
>possible. These expendatures may be in money, time, thought, or a multitude
>of things. A matter of conveniance more than anything. Now the accusation of
>sidestepping due to inability to answer or understand is as false as your
>knowledge of the 70's through personal experiance, something you know as
>well as I do.
Personal experience means about as much as trying to hunt a plastic duck in a
pond. Just because it's sitting there in the water doesn't make it any more a
real duck than it's not. I've never claimed extensive personal experience of
the 70's (as I only spent 2 years in them), nor does yours of the 70's (at
which you claim to not even have been in the U.S.) much of a matter since
"being there," and "experienced" are two entirely different things. You've got
the age, which gives you the potential for experience, but the experience
itself has yet to show. And even then, experience is hardly a requirement of
knowledge.
>My choice to not answwer things is based on much more than you know, and
>until you have some experiance in reality, not just this forum, you probably
>will not know. I persoanlly am used to dealing with people of a far higher
>calibre than your level of thought. Most of them with multiple degrees in
>multiple fields, and the rest professionals in their fields. The average
>person is not a type that I deal with very often other than in forums like
>this. Usually they are incapable of keeping up with me, and to be honest the
>worship syndrome most of them exibit annoys me to no end.
You exude a complete & total full of yourself attitude that exceeds the levels
of your arrogence. While you deserve koodles on your high self esteem, you
loose marks on your overblown ego. There's an old saying, don't let your mouth
write checks that your ass can't cash. It heartily replies to you. I fully
suggest you lower your tone of self indulgence in all things you, and actually
stick to the topics. If you wish to use copouts, at least use original excuses.
I've already explaned to you that no one here is going for your holier than
thou antics here. It's been done, now try something a bit less "uppity" at the
very least.
>The other issue, as I mentioned before, is a matter of time. To me time is
>more than money. Every moment I spend in the day is irreplacable. This
>message for example is being typed out at 12:20am Pacific. I could be in the
>bedroom where I belong as I have spent almost no time with Kitty, but
>instead I am here typing this out to you. Now you should be old enough to
>understand that She has much more of a draw to me than you do. Therefore I
>will freely take the liberty to truncate messages I would normally answer in
>an Offline Conferance setting.
Enticement of lesbian acts won't distract away from the issue. Though the
absolute proper response here would be "thank you for sharring." There's even
less interest if you're referring to bestiality.
>Probably makes no sense to you, but I am not being to specific.
Don't worry, I've more than adiquate means of sifting through your B.S. Though
in being a business woman, I'm amazed you haven't learned the one key rule of
never underestimating your opponsent, let alone so arrogently writing them off
& placing yourself as so superior. You'll wind up leaving yourself entirely too
open to a deal that can go horribly wrong one of these days if you keep it up.
>You obviously have no concept of the business applications and overall
>usefullness of the internet for communication. At your age you should.
If you want to start playing the "at your age" game, then I can just as easly
point out how your apparent arrival into menopause is clouding whatever logic
you may posses, and how your altzheimers is taking care of the rest. Agism will
not be accepted here any more than sexism. You have the choice of either
refraining, or dealing with it coming right back at you. From someone who so
egotistically places herself above others, at the very least should be expected
to use tactics far less crude than that.
>Through the use of the internet for many of my communications I have in the
>last year been able to shave off over $130k in expenses that I would have
>normally incurred if I had used more traditional methods. That does not
>include the time saved in that figure either. It used to take 6 -7 days for
>paperwork to reach England (for example). Then they would review it, have a
>spot of tea with their lawyers, sign it, then return it taking another 6 - 7
>days, not counting weekends of course. Including the lawyers it could take
>up to 30 days for me to get answers back.
>Now I have a real time response system in place. I get the same answers back
>often withing 12-24 hours. I have everything networked and in place where
>answers, contracts, conferences, and much more can all be done at a moments
>notice. Email is fast becoming obsolete for me other than dealings with the
>public, and I am slowly working on having other people handle more and more
>of them.
Yadda yadda yadda, none of this denies the fact that you're playing around on
the internet during work time.This debate for instance. Both your concern for
employee's reading something they shouldn't, and your self admission for doing
this and who knows what else during work time touch an entirely different issue
than the merits of conducting business on the internet.
>They do not snoop. I use the server to filter any and all messages that
>enter the network through any means. That means if it enters on its way to
>one of them, it is treated the same way as if it is on its way to me. On the
>other hand my server spools it all into a nice file for me to review if I
>ever want to.
So your server is so insecure that any piece of documentation may find its way
to any given employee at any time should the filter miss it? You're not doing
much here to defend any degree of security with your setup.
>On the other hand, a signed waiver has no meaning in this. It could possibly
>jold up in court, but since I am responsible for them, and what they do
>through the server I tend to take the responsibility instead of dumping it
>off on some piece of paper.
If you don't want to cover your ass, then thats your business. The choice
however exists, and the alternative you practice amounts to nothing more than
censorship.
>True or not, it does not change that it exists.
It is an amalgom of 3 pre-existing series, there is only one thing that exists
as "somewhat' original Robotech, being "Robotech II: The Sentinels," and even
that barely exists. If you take away Macross, Southern Cross, & MOSPEADA, you
are left with some bad dub tracks. Those dub tracks themselves contain dialogue
that is based largely on pre-existing portions of the original shows as well,
so if you remove those elements, you're left with an uncohesive amount of audio
that hardly constitutes a show. As such, Robotech does not exist.
>Odd thing, almost sounds like you call me racist there. It demeans them
>none whatsoever. The simple fact is they died for a misguided cause. Death
>is quite possibly the only fact of life that we are all guarenteed. Accept
>it, or die in fear.
And you completely miss the issue once again. Is it intentional, or just
outright ignorance? Though on the grounds that you defend racist actions, I
call you a racist. On the grounds that you compare me to Nazi's, I call you
ignorant. There is no simple fact about the death's that occurred. Your not
even remotely sly attempt to weezle out of this issue insults the matter even
further. They died not simply for a "misguided cause," as there were no
misgivings about what was going on. It was a very specific & cruel cause, with
a very specific belief system & intentions in mind. It was your oriignal
ignorant usage of a comparison that warrented my rebuttal. I suggest you drop
the issue as you do nothing but continually dig yourself deeper. I also suggest
you think a bit harder next time before drawing such comparisons with anyone
again.
>As a side note, Kitty is Jewish. I am quite close to members of her family
>that were very young when they were in the concentration camps. Trying to
>claim I demean them is about the lowest you have gone yet.
Demeaning them is the lowest you have gone, especially since you do it in the
name out name calling. To further the issue, all your statement here does is
draw a comparison with the ignorant racist anthem of "I have black friends, but
I don't believe in racial mixing." Again, don't play around in issues you
obviously don't understand.
>Let me see. Anime started mainstream United States around 1995. Before that
>it was generally seen as "those weird cartoons". Even then in 1995 it was
>mostly just Akira, Sailor Moon and Robotech. It was more around 1997 that
>the actual push by the Cartoon Network and Sci-Fi channel started making it
>better known. Around then was Sailor Moon (Bad DiC Dub), Technoman, and
>more... I seem to recall a bad dub of Vampire Hunter D in 1996 on Sci-Fi,
>and the same year there were some bad dubs of Dominion Tank Police released
>on HBO.
Drop your figures to around 93-94, and you'd be a bit closer. As well, you'd
have to drop Robotech out of the mix, as that has never been "mainstream," and
most certainly never as popular as the likes of Tenchi, DBZ, Sailor Moon, any
given recent Bandai release, Evangelion, Etc. As for the Sci-Fi Channel, they
showed quite a few more movies over the period of 5-6 years than the Streamline
dub of Vampire Hunter D. You're also entirely neglecting to mention the direct
ot video market of the late 80's, early 90's, and the widespread fansub base of
the late 70's through recent.
>This is of course ignoring that the older classics like Star Blazers, Speed
>Racer, Battle of the Planets, and Voltron were still playing in all their
>badly dubbed glory in various places around the english speaking world.
As well as Mazinger Z (as Tranzor Z), the Sci-Fi channels dub of one of the
later Tetsujin 28 series (under the title the "New Adventures of Gigantor"),
Jace & the Wheel Warriors, Mighty Orbots, the variou sereis anthologied as
Force 5, Ronin Warriors, Dragon Warrior, Kimba the White Lion, and at least a
few more series I'm forgetting. Of course there was also an edited theatrical
release of Galaxy Express 999 in the early 80's. Though you discount the
popularity of Star Blazers in comparison with Robotech, it too had an entire
video release, as well as comics based on it.
>Contrast this with the Release of Robotech, you will find alot more time
>passed than you quoted.
Contrast the time period of Robotech with that of the time period that came
after it. In doing so you'll attribute again much more of an inspiring anime
boom with the 90's bad dubs than you would anything that came before. Of course
you entirely neglect to mention the influence that Japanese gaming has had on
the popularity of anime.
>Again you illustrate your Revisionist techniques by your attempt to rewrite
>my opinions of Carl. I really do not wish to go back and requote all of the
>times I have stated my feelings about him.
There's absolutely nothing revisionist about it, other than your inability to
make up your mind with what you're either going to credit, or not credit Macek
with. Decide now, as it holds a major bearing on the continuation of this
debate.
>I love this deletion accusation. I never rarely delete anything unless it
>has not been addressed for two or three messages. When doing so I always
>place the common <snip> in place to mark that I have deleted there.
Aside from all the actual on topic issues you've neglected to qoute (which in
itself is a deletion), drawing the topic away to non-topic issues such as your
business, your love life, and your all encompassing self love.
>Not only are you ignorant of Anime, but apparently of law.
Your witless barb burns me like lukewarm water on a clear spring day.
>Let me enlighten you. The panel is commonly called Jurors. They are to be in
>number of 12, and to be chosen from the peers of the defendant. They must be
>impartial with no kowledge of the defendant or the accusations beforehand.
>That means that the Prosecution, aka the people trying to proove guilt, also
>known as District Attorneys, must convince these people not only that a
>crime has occured, but also that the defendant has been the one who commited
>it.
Aside from the fact that there are no jururs here, you should be inclined to
know in all your ficticious lawly wisdom, that a jury is not "literally" taken
of a defendents peers, but a group of entirely random people whom fall into the
catagories of not wanting to be there in the first place, to wanting to miss
work & hang out in a hotel as long as possible. And though the actual laws may
say otherwise, the fact of the matter is that a defendent is far more often
guilty until proven innocent.
>The defense needs only produce a doubt in the minds of the impartial panel
>that leads them to believe the defendant is not guilty.
If you think its that simple, then you've truly no business calling me or
anyone else ignorant.
>The standard process is the Prosecution produces its arguements first, then
>the defense attempts to break those arguements down. Then when it is over,
>closing statements are made, the panel retires to a private room (commonly
>called deliberation) where they decide their opinion. This is called a
>verdict and it must be unamous. There is no majority, they agree as one or
>the do not agree at all.
>In cases where there is no agreement of yes or no, then the judge usually
>will force them to continue until they reach a verdict, sometimes not
>allowing them to go home (sequestering), or will declare a "hung Jury" and
>then the whole process starts over again.
And I'm sure in whatever text book you learned that it, it works all hunky
dory, but in actual execution, its far from as cut & dry and simplisitc as
that.
>I assume you know what a judge is...
I assume you know what contempt is. ;P
>Again you throw up a puff of smoke to hide behind. You have no
>documentation. You are incapable of getting said documentation. You have
>nothing but your own pathetic string of words to hide behind now.
>Funny thing is that a document such as that would end this discussion right
>now and prove you right. But no document as such exists.
A puff of smoke? No, I provide the source of this very issue itself for
examination. Whether you choose to ignore it or not is your choice. However in
choosing to ignore it you lose any & all right to discount it. Something which
you yourself claim to not enjoy, as well as the actions taken to make something
which you claim not to support, you can hardly deny the implications of which
voilate the artistic integrity of the original shows used to make it. The
proverbial proof lies in the pudding. If you want to understand how it violates
artisitc integrity, go ahead and watch Robotech for yourself and see just what
happened.
BTW, you who constantly rants off into completely irrelivent issues such as the
mechanics of a courtroom, your sex life, etc, have absolutely no right (outside
of making yourself a hypocrite) to denote the words of others (let alone
myself) to be pathetically strung together to hide something. Sticking along
with the actual points of the issue would at the very least help your argument
minutely.
>Spoken like a true westerner. At least you seem to hold some respect for
>your father. That is a plus at least.
Ah, so now you're a nationalist as well. For someone who claims to be impartial
(or do you?) and not at all racist (except for your contempt for people), you
do seem to have a lot of sub-catagories of people you find "inferior." You were
making comparisons to Nazi's were you?
>Its called experiance child. You should learn to appriciate it. Some day you
>will be able to use it as well.
Excuse me hag, I'm unable to assertain just why you in all your menopausal
glory rant off into irrelivent directions. Is that experience too, or just your
altzheimers making you forget where you are and what you're replying too? If
you want to play the agist, nationalistic, caste system induced hollier than
though game, you will be officially recognized as a bigot. This being your
final warning here.
Besides which, you have a nasty habbit of confusing age with experience.
Experience is the act of attaining knowledge. while age is merely the act of
growing old. While age may give way to larger potential for experience, it in
itself does not equate it.
>Oh about the arrogance. Most will say I am. It is more my method of
>communication. people do not seem to understand my ways. I am a very quiet
>and to the point kind of girl. I do not pad things at all. I have found
>westerners are taught to "cushion" things to protect the feelings of people
>they deal with. I find that to be boring, and usually I consider that lying
>to the individual at hand. Therfore I am blunt with them and speak exactly
>what needs to be said in theinterests of being honest with them.
While th at lie may make you able to sleep at night after a session of hot
lesbian loving, it does absolutely nothing in the face of the truth. Your
problem is your words themselves, and the fact that there is no "right" way to
express them. The beliefs & opinions presented within them are unmistakable for
what they are. Whether you intend to coney that about yourself or not is not
the issue, the fact is that you do.
>You do not know the half of it. It has an unstable system that I could write
>a 500 page essay on. It uses substandard systems and is built primarily off
>of a gnu code. I have in the past used AOL. It is an excelent "Starter
>Tool". When I was a guide for them I gquickly grew tired of the idiots I was
>forced to deal with. It was not entirely bad, but I find other places to be
>more worth my time now.
Ah, not even remotely surprised that you were a guide. It's no wonder that the
arrogent "rent-a-cop" mentality of such group is now long since gone. This
however does not change the fact that an ISP is an ISP, and the catagorizing of
an entire people because of their chosen ISP is entirely prejudice.
>As to DOS. No I did not write it. I have written an OS, fairly primitive
>really, that was designed to take advantage of the Alpha. But I do not have
>time to keep up with it now.
>
>Keypunch... Odd you should mention that. It was probably the first thing
>that got me interested in machines. At the age of 4 I saw my first keypunch
>system and went from there. They are surprisingly simplistic, but still
>bring some fun. Sometimes I use one for secure communique with another
>person who can still also read them. Great for business confrences to bring
>your documentation in keypunch.
>
>Anyway I am going to Kitty now...
>She is probably mad at the time I took.
>
> - Miyagami Noriko
I could have sworn I expressed a complete lack of care in regards to such
issues, not requested your entire life story.
O.D.
No.
1) My suppliers sucked eggs.
2) My merchant account company changed their underwriting policy during the
goddamn *approval process*
SO now I'm looking for an elegant way to mesh Paypal with my shopping
cart... It can be done, I just don't want to...
To quote Shirow Masamune: "One thing after another, day after day,
troubled, harried days..."
Now before Jeremy asks "what's the special today, O.D.?":
$245.00CAN Rio Volt MP3 Player.
$70.00CAN 32MB CompactFlash memory.
$198.90CAN PG 1:60 Wing Zero Custom Kit.
NO CASH! NO YAOI!! SHIPPING EXTRA!
THESE ITEMS MUST GOOO!!! @_@
"Paul Santa Cruz" <pot...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3b446b44.62906903@news...
Chad Fraker
I've been lurking in this NG a while now and I just love to play devil's advocate, so
here goes ;-)
>
> > If
> > you spend 4 trillion dollars on the Mona Lisa, then light it up like a roman
> > candle, you can be damned sure that you're going to be lynched.
>
> So? What does it matter what other people think? ITS MINE.
If I were to set it on fire, I would call it "The Burning Death of a Masterpiece" That
would be performance art.
Now.......
What if I took a blank piece of paper and drew a moustache on it. ART. (granted not
very good art, but art none the less.)
Now, what if I spend 4 trillion dollars on the Mona Lisa and draw that same moustache
on it. It is still art, is it not? I will get lynched, I admit that, but it's still
art right? I mean, I had this great creative idea, to put a moustache on the Mona
Lisa.
If I were to have this great idea for a song, and it fit great with pre-existing music,
I then paid the rights to the musician / artist to "Use" their song, and then recorded
my own song and released it,(i.e. Wierd Al Yankovic) did I just create art? Granted it
was with help from other people, but I created a not so entirely new entity, but still
art.
So, if the antichrist CM bought the rights to those shows, and then wrote a "new" story
(granted, relying heavily on the old one) he created what?......art. Or perhaps, crap
art.
Like I said at the beginning, simply playing the devil's advocate......or am I
defending someone's artistic integrity? You be the judge.
O.D.
(That Mona Lisa with the moustache is going to go through a restoration
process to remove the moustache...)
Pay more attention please = P
"Chad Fraker" <jin...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:3b463e73$0$18889$272e...@news.execpc.com...
Keith
yourself drew is "your art." The Mona Lisa with you having drawn a mustache is
"defacing someone elses art."
Do you get it? The difference is between something that is originally yours,
and something that is originally someone elses.
miyagami noriko
Take the wide variety of music for example. Or just the wide variety of
anime. There are many differing tastes, leading to differing styles. So what
one calls art another calls an abomination.
There is no question of artistic integrity unless we recognize all forms of
art, no matter what they are, as art since art itself is in the eyes of the
creator.
- Miyagami Noriko
"Chad Fraker" <jin...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:3b463e73$0$18889$272e...@news.execpc.com...
> >
>
Keith
You're close, the problem is that you think art is subjective. You corrupt the
meaning of art by implying that it just applies to something that meets some
standard. If it is created of the heart & mind of someone, it is art, period.
It has nothing to do with like or dislike.
>Take the wide variety of music for example. Or just the wide variety of
>anime. There are many differing tastes, leading to differing styles. So what
>one calls art another calls an abomination.
All music is art, all animation is art, which you like & dislike is the only
thing that's open to opinion. Be it brilliant or crap, art is art.
>There is no question of artistic integrity unless we recognize all forms of
>art, no matter what they are, as art since art itself is in the eyes of the
>creator.
>
> - Miyagami Noriko
You are in error for implying that something being art is open to
interpretation, art is art. All books, all entertainment media, etc are art.
Whether you like them or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Godmars
@aol.com says...
> >I think the problem is that we all have differeing opinions of what Art is.
>
> You're close, the problem is that you think art is subjective. You corrupt the
> meaning of art by implying that it just applies to something that meets some
> standard. If it is created of the heart & mind of someone, it is art, period.
> It has nothing to do with like or dislike.
>
> >Take the wide variety of music for example. Or just the wide variety of
> >anime. There are many differing tastes, leading to differing styles. So what
> >one calls art another calls an abomination.
>
> All music is art, all animation is art, which you like & dislike is the only
> thing that's open to opinion. Be it brilliant or crap, art is art.
>
> >There is no question of artistic integrity unless we recognize all forms of
> >art, no matter what they are, as art since art itself is in the eyes of the
> >creator.
> >
> > - Miyagami Noriko
>
> You are in error for implying that something being art is open to
> interpretation, art is art. All books, all entertainment media, etc are art.
> Whether you like them or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.
>
> ~Keith
This has GOT to be the lamest fucking argument I have seen in this
newsgroup since I've been here. Its a goddamn cartoon! Harmony Gold
bought the rights that were foolishly sold to them, and now they are
abusing the hell out of those rights. But, guess what, shit happens.
Its a cartoon, get over it.
--
God
Chris George
heated debates when they are Macross related. I mean, most of us freak out
when we hear of a new Yamato toy being released, and that is just a toy.
Chris George
"Godmars" <ple...@nomail.com> wrote in message >
Comic-Kaze
There is my daily "Fucking Lame" AFM argument/post for the day.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in my eyes they are ugly.
In my eyes, Basara is a arrogant pacifist prick who is too wound up in his
own
music and visions of a peaceful universe that loves his song. Thereby his
reckless attitude is immature and shows little concern for what is real.
Only by pure fluke (and cheap escapsist writing) did his music turn out to
be the salvation for the Macross 7 crew from the Protodevlins. But then
again,
all of anime is pretty much like this anyway.
In my eyes, Harmony Gold is just another corporation who wanted to cash in
on
trend of dubbing/rewriting animes into American Saturday morning cartoons in
the
80s. There are several other animes that have fallen victim to the same fate
by different
companies. Why aren't you defending them? Why aren't I defending them?
Because
some of them are damned good both ways.
In my eyes, I saw Robotech for the first time in 1994. I had Takatoku Valks
from Macross
since 1989 but I never realized what they were until I saw Robotech. How
odd. I find it
ridiculous and infuriating what HG is doing nowadays to cash in on the
popularity
of anime, restricting your so-called art from true fans and only
proliferating their dreams for
$ but that is simply a fact of life. If you get rich or suicidal...Buy them
out or bomb them.
-Jeremy
"Chris George" <ch...@px.com> wrote in message
news:odM17.3405$KC1.6...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
Oyan
> Simple. He lied. Precident in this country is that the use of a weapon
> immediately moves tghe crime up the scale to a first degree crime. It is
> universally recognized by the courts and the law that use of a weapon shows
> INTENT to kill.
The thing is...his intent was "good"...but in the end look where it
got him? And ppl are going to be looking at the end result.
> Sideste is an action in combat one uses to merely dodge an attack. In this
> case it is used as a metaphor for other accusations of yours.
"Really?!" I didn't see anything you typed look like a metaphor....
Please explain more...that surely was one poor metaphor.
> You seem to be incapable of holding mu;tiple concepts in a single thread. I
> guess this means I will have to expand the length of my posts just to
> accomodate your inability. Federal law and such when dealing with
> disabilities.
?! Whatever. All I said is that you do care. And now I am
"incapable of holding mu;tiple concepts in a single thread"? All
cause I said that you do care? Lol! That's a new one!
> I only hold a mirror up to you. Believe it or not these discussions to me
> are very little more than a form of recreation. I do use them for minor
> training in dealing with different types of people. You would not believe
> how helpful you are in my market sudies, let alone research on persoanlity
> types.
...You're all talking about me being a statistic and shit, so the fuck
what?! I can care less that I'm a statistic in your stupid studies.
I serriously doubt the have any effect on me. So why the fuck would I
care? Second...you are trying to divert the subject here. The thing
is...you ma'am are not the pacifist you claim to be, insulting me and
all.
> You seem to be doing a very poor job. Might I suggest counseling? I am told
> that sometimes after great expense you might actually find yourself.
So using my past as an example automatically means that I'm doing a
poor job of dealing with it? Lol...okay...that's a new one too.
...Making false accusations on things...don't even know me. How dare
you make false accusations when you have no clue who I am, or my past?
...Right there just shows your stupidity...you certainly DON'T KNOW
me...so you are being stupid with your accusations.
You know something, you are just some stupid snob who thinks she knows
everything about everyone and anything, when you actually don't. You
just think you do. You are nothing but a small person to me, and
that's all you'll ever be. You're mouth will get you in trouble out
on the streets, I will guarantee that much. Telling ppl, bluntly,
your opinions...with no respect whatsoever for other ppls
opinions/feelings...you, my friend, are gonna get it in the end...
And no that is not a threat from me, I just know it's gonna happen to
someone like you.
Oyan
Keith
>Feel free to flame me but I think the Yamato Valks are pathetic and suck.
>
>There is my daily "Fucking Lame" AFM argument/post for the day.
>Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in my eyes they are ugly.
And the scale for a good Valkyrie being?
>In my eyes, Basara is a arrogant pacifist prick who is too wound up in his
>own
>music and visions of a peaceful universe that loves his song. Thereby his
>reckless attitude is immature and shows little concern for what is real.
>Only by pure fluke (and cheap escapsist writing) did his music turn out to
>be the salvation for the Macross 7 crew from the Protodevlins. But then
>again,
>all of anime is pretty much like this anyway.
Your eyes being clouded once again. We've been up this topic before, and what
it amounts to is your nonsensicle respect for someone who i ndescriminately
kills as opposed to someone who refuses to kill. Those are issues you need to
deal with yourself.
>In my eyes, Harmony Gold is just another corporation who wanted to cash in
>on
>trend of dubbing/rewriting animes into American Saturday morning cartoons in
>the
>80s. There are several other animes that have fallen victim to the same fate
>by different
>companies. Why aren't you defending them? Why aren't I defending them?
>Because
>some of them are damned good both ways.
I'm defending all badly dubbed hacked up anime that's gotten trashed by U.S.
companies. Just so happens this is a Macross news group where the topic is
Macross bright boy.
>In my eyes, I saw Robotech for the first time in 1994. I had Takatoku Valks
>from Macross
>since 1989 but I never realized what they were until I saw Robotech. How
>odd. I find it
>ridiculous and infuriating what HG is doing nowadays to cash in on the
>popularity
>of anime, restricting your so-called art from true fans and only
>proliferating their dreams for
>$ but that is simply a fact of life. If you get rich or suicidal...Buy them
>out or bomb them.
>-Jeremy
Or point out the wrongness of what they do. Bottom line, they're wrong, don't
need to buy them out or bomb them to know it or debate over it. No ones asking
you to do anything afterall.
miyagami noriko
"Oyan" <Oih...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93d4ed1.01070...@posting.google.com...
> "miyagami noriko" <kyok...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:<5ZW07.151455$qv3.42...@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>...
> > Simple. He lied. Precident in this country is that the use of a weapon
> > immediately moves tghe crime up the scale to a first degree crime. It is
> > universally recognized by the courts and the law that use of a weapon
shows
> > INTENT to kill.
>
> The thing is...his intent was "good"...but in the end look where it
> got him? And ppl are going to be looking at the end result.
>
There is no such thing as the intent to scare being good. Scareing a person
is preying upon negative and primal emotions. If you call that good then you
have definately evolved from a different species than humanity.
> > Sideste is an action in combat one uses to merely dodge an attack. In
this
> > case it is used as a metaphor for other accusations of yours.
>
> "Really?!" I didn't see anything you typed look like a metaphor....
> Please explain more...that surely was one poor metaphor.
>
Perhaps you are incapable of seeing metaphors. I have found that the level
of education, and/or experiance required to understand me fully is generally
quite high. Something I have tried to change, but seem to be not able to.
Part of the problem is that I give every person credit for knowing what I
know until they prove themselves to be unable to cope with such.
As my favorite quote from A Fish Called Wanda says:
"Apes do to read philosophy Otto, they just do not understand it."
- disclaimer: I am not calling you an ape.
> > You seem to be incapable of holding mu;tiple concepts in a single
thread. I
> > guess this means I will have to expand the length of my posts just to
> > accomodate your inability. Federal law and such when dealing with
> > disabilities.
>
> ?! Whatever. All I said is that you do care. And now I am
> "incapable of holding mu;tiple concepts in a single thread"? All
> cause I said that you do care? Lol! That's a new one!
>
It is your actions. As above. I tend to tie together all threads into a
converation. So what is said here may have some bearing on the other threads
we are discussing, or their content may also be influential on what I say
here. This mostly because I assume people around me can deal with mass
information and multiple data streams easily. Since you have shown yourself
incapable of that then I will have to find a way to accomodate you.
> > I only hold a mirror up to you. Believe it or not these discussions to
me
> > are very little more than a form of recreation. I do use them for minor
> > training in dealing with different types of people. You would not
believe
> > how helpful you are in my market sudies, let alone research on
persoanlity
> > types.
>
> ...You're all talking about me being a statistic and shit, so the fuck
> what?! I can care less that I'm a statistic in your stupid studies.
> I serriously doubt the have any effect on me. So why the fuck would I
> care? Second...you are trying to divert the subject here. The thing
> is...you ma'am are not the pacifist you claim to be, insulting me and
> all.
No... here you try ti interpret my words into a negative meaning. I actually
complemented you for your help, and pointed out how useful you are being
right now. If you translate that into the whole term "statistic", then
chance has it that you have translated many other things into a negative
meaning. Though this is classic for people who show other types of symptoms
and behavior that you illustrate, I think with time we can learn to work
around it.
>
> > You seem to be doing a very poor job. Might I suggest counseling? I am
told
> > that sometimes after great expense you might actually find yourself.
>
> So using my past as an example automatically means that I'm doing a
> poor job of dealing with it? Lol...okay...that's a new one too.
> ...Making false accusations on things...don't even know me. How dare
> you make false accusations when you have no clue who I am, or my past?
> ...Right there just shows your stupidity...you certainly DON'T KNOW
> me...so you are being stupid with your accusations.
>
To be honest, I predicted such an answer. But other than that I will
withdraw my commentary on your past. Of course you are requested to withdraw
your commentaries on mine as well. See this is not a stream where all things
flow the direction of Oyans desire... This is more like the wind.
> You know something, you are just some stupid snob who thinks she knows
> everything about everyone and anything, when you actually don't. You
> just think you do. You are nothing but a small person to me, and
> that's all you'll ever be. You're mouth will get you in trouble out
> on the streets, I will guarantee that much. Telling ppl, bluntly,
> your opinions...with no respect whatsoever for other ppls
> opinions/feelings...you, my friend, are gonna get it in the end...
> And no that is not a threat from me, I just know it's gonna happen to
> someone like you.
>
> Oyan
>
Oyan, your desire to utilize strongly worded content is quite amazing. I am
no snob, and I am fully aware of what I do not know. I am also aware of what
I know, and I am aware of how to use what I know to the fullest advantage. I
have been out there on the streets. I have had it all and I have lost it
all, only to rebuild again. You may claim all you wish about the way life
is, but until you see it through the eyes I have you will never understand
why I am the way I am. The same holds true for my looking upon your life.
I find you a fascinating person. Though if I wanted to I could make you an
easy puppet, pulling exactly the strings needed in order to make you do
exactly what I predict will be the response, I find it much more fulfilling
to instead try to see the world through your eyes and hopefully understand
why you are the way you are.
Honesty on the other hand. I love how you have perverted it to be a negative
thing. People learn that with me I will always be honest and bluntly to the
point. Though I may sometimes place it wrapped up in a fortune cookie (a
metaphor for a metaphor). They respect that. It is the way of where I am
from. We do not lie because to lie is to commit not only a grave injustice
to yourself, but to the person you have lied to.
An example is the artist's I deal with daily. I have new people every day
coming to me asking me for my opinion of their work. They all think they are
good. Why not, everyone around them has told them they are because they do
not want to hurt their feelings by telling them the truth. This puts me in a
very unique position as I must deal with these people professionaly. How
does one tell a person that their art is, quite plainly, garbage? From a
professional standpoint I am refering to here. The industry is fairly
establised in its standards.
Now had people from the beginning been honest with them, I would never be
placed in the position of having to tell them how bad they are. And after
seeing the looks on their faces, the pain in their eyes... It is the death
of a dream I have to witness when I give them an honest appraisal. All
because people out there were never honest. I think in terms of "Long
Term -vs- Short Term". Though you may think it is better to spare them their
feelings now, the truth eventually catches up with them and the pain they
suffer is much greater.
-
Around here, in the world I live in, my status is very different than you
might ever see. My world is filled with not only business, but people all
over who need help. People who are hungry, need shelter, need education...
the list goes on. Back when I first came to this country I was in their
place. When you are there and have risen out of the ashes of life to build
again, then lecture me on how I will "get it in the end". I have been to the
end and back again.
Perhaps with a little more time youe unique insight will help me understand
more about people like you and I may perhaps be able to assist them more
with coping with their world.
Chris George
here we are very passionate about them. That is why we hang out in a forum
that is dedicated to Macross.
Chris George
"Comic-Kaze" <comic...@home.com> wrote in message
news:juM17.40244$V12.6...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com...
Oyan
> I can say this, you have much to learn about the world, as well as people.
I do have a lot to learn...I don't know it all.......
> > The thing is...his intent was "good"...but in the end look where it
> > got him? And ppl are going to be looking at the end result.
> >
>
> There is no such thing as the intent to scare being good. Scareing a person
> is preying upon negative and primal emotions. If you call that good then you
> have definately evolved from a different species than humanity.
I was being sarcastic...you could say. ...I didn't mean it as it was
actually a good thing...it's not a good thing...I don't condone
threats or violence.... I was trying to say that he didn't mean to
kill anyone...that being the 'good'...but in the end he did...and that
ppl are looking at the fact that he killed somebody....
> > "Really?!" I didn't see anything you typed look like a metaphor....
> > Please explain more...that surely was one poor metaphor.
> >
>
> Perhaps you are incapable of seeing metaphors. I have found that the level
> of education, and/or experiance required to understand me fully is generally
> quite high. Something I have tried to change, but seem to be not able to.
> Part of the problem is that I give every person credit for knowing what I
> know until they prove themselves to be unable to cope with such.
...There you go again....
> As my favorite quote from A Fish Called Wanda says:
> "Apes do to read philosophy Otto, they just do not understand it."
>
> - disclaimer: I am not calling you an ape.
Now see...since you said that...I'm not taking it offensively...taking
it the wrong way...what you should have done in the first place....
> > ?! Whatever. All I said is that you do care. And now I am
> > "incapable of holding mu;tiple concepts in a single thread"? All
> > cause I said that you do care? Lol! That's a new one!
> >
>
> It is your actions. As above. I tend to tie together all threads into a
> converation. So what is said here may have some bearing on the other threads
> we are discussing, or their content may also be influential on what I say
> here. This mostly because I assume people around me can deal with mass
> information and multiple data streams easily. Since you have shown yourself
> incapable of that then I will have to find a way to accomodate you.
Again, how did you come about this?! Where is this that you see that
I am incapable of interlaced threads and whatnot? Cite me...where "I
have been incapable of holding multiple concepts." I want to see
this.... That is so f***ing bs.... ...And...how the fudge did me
saying that you do care bring this bs of where I am incapable of blah
blah blah? Where did all of that come from?!
> > ...You're all talking about me being a statistic and shit, so the fuck
> > what?! I can care less that I'm a statistic in your stupid studies.
> > I serriously doubt the have any effect on me. So why the fuck would I
> > care? Second...you are trying to divert the subject here. The thing
> > is...you ma'am are not the pacifist you claim to be, insulting me and
> > all.
>
> No... here you try ti interpret my words into a negative meaning. I actually
> complemented you for your help, and pointed out how useful you are being
> right now. If you translate that into the whole term "statistic", then
> chance has it that you have translated many other things into a negative
> meaning. Though this is classic for people who show other types of symptoms
> and behavior that you illustrate, I think with time we can learn to work
> around it.
Complementing me? I was trying to be a nice person and tell you what
"0wnz" meant cause I honestly thought you didn't know what it
meant...that's what I got from your posts...then you start insulting
me more after I tried to help ya...what gives? And there you go
again.... "Though this is classic for people who show other types of
symptoms and behavior that you illustrate...." That right there is
insulting...it's like you are telling me that I'm some stupid shmo or
whatever.
> > So using my past as an example automatically means that I'm doing a
> > poor job of dealing with it? Lol...okay...that's a new one too.
> > ...Making false accusations on things...don't even know me. How dare
> > you make false accusations when you have no clue who I am, or my past?
> > ...Right there just shows your stupidity...you certainly DON'T KNOW
> > me...so you are being stupid with your accusations.
> >
>
> To be honest, I predicted such an answer. But other than that I will
> withdraw my commentary on your past. Of course you are requested to withdraw
> your commentaries on mine as well. See this is not a stream where all things
> flow the direction of Oyans desire... This is more like the wind.
First of all, I'm not saying what I say goes, or what I say is the
law, okay?! Last of all...I don't know who you are...you just appear
to be a snob...that's why I call you one...cause you appear to be.
> > You know something, you are just some stupid snob who thinks she knows
> > everything about everyone and anything, when you actually don't. You
> > just think you do. You are nothing but a small person to me, and
> > that's all you'll ever be. You're mouth will get you in trouble out
> > on the streets, I will guarantee that much. Telling ppl, bluntly,
> > your opinions...with no respect whatsoever for other ppls
> > opinions/feelings...you, my friend, are gonna get it in the end...
> > And no that is not a threat from me, I just know it's gonna happen to
> > someone like you.
> >
> > Oyan
> >
>
> Oyan, your desire to utilize strongly worded content is quite amazing. I am
> no snob, and I am fully aware of what I do not know. I am also aware of what
> I know, and I am aware of how to use what I know to the fullest advantage. I
> have been out there on the streets. I have had it all and I have lost it
> all, only to rebuild again. You may claim all you wish about the way life
> is, but until you see it through the eyes I have you will never understand
> why I am the way I am. The same holds true for my looking upon your life.
> I find you a fascinating person. Though if I wanted to I could make you an
> easy puppet, pulling exactly the strings needed in order to make you do
> exactly what I predict will be the response, I find it much more fulfilling
> to instead try to see the world through your eyes and hopefully understand
> why you are the way you are.
I have claimed nothing...except for the fact that if you keep talking
the way you talk out on the streets...some mofo isn't gonna take
it...and they are gonna do something about your mouth. You should
learn when to open it and when not to. If you don't want to create
hostility, then watch what you say! And now you go around saying that
I am easy to manipulate?! WTF is that all about? THERE YOU GO
AGAIN...insulting me. And don't tell me that I'm "perverting"
everything you say...cause you are fucking insulting me...saying all
that shit.
> Honesty on the other hand. I love how you have perverted it to be a negative
> thing. People learn that with me I will always be honest and bluntly to the
> point. Though I may sometimes place it wrapped up in a fortune cookie (a
> metaphor for a metaphor). They respect that. It is the way of where I am
> from. We do not lie because to lie is to commit not only a grave injustice
> to yourself, but to the person you have lied to.
> An example is the artist's I deal with daily. I have new people every day
> coming to me asking me for my opinion of their work. They all think they are
> good. Why not, everyone around them has told them they are because they do
> not want to hurt their feelings by telling them the truth. This puts me in a
> very unique position as I must deal with these people professionaly. How
> does one tell a person that their art is, quite plainly, garbage? From a
> professional standpoint I am refering to here. The industry is fairly
> establised in its standards.
> Now had people from the beginning been honest with them, I would never be
> placed in the position of having to tell them how bad they are. And after
> seeing the looks on their faces, the pain in their eyes... It is the death
> of a dream I have to witness when I give them an honest appraisal. All
> because people out there were never honest. I think in terms of "Long
> Term -vs- Short Term". Though you may think it is better to spare them their
> feelings now, the truth eventually catches up with them and the pain they
> suffer is much greater.
I'll tell ya something, I hate being lied to too. I would rather much
be told the truth even if were to hurt me...than be lied to. But when
some person who doesn't even know me...and then claims all these
things about me...that just ticks me off to no end. You can't claim
the things you claim on me, and say that it's true! You don't know
me.
>
> -
>
> Around here, in the world I live in, my status is very different than you
> might ever see. My world is filled with not only business, but people all
> over who need help. People who are hungry, need shelter, need education...
> the list goes on. Back when I first came to this country I was in their
> place. When you are there and have risen out of the ashes of life to build
> again, then lecture me on how I will "get it in the end". I have been to the
> end and back again.
> Perhaps with a little more time youe unique insight will help me understand
> more about people like you and I may perhaps be able to assist them more
> with coping with their world.
All I was saying by how you are going to "get it in the end" is this:
if you don't be careful with what you say around people...you will say
something to the wrong person, who won't take it lightly, and will do
something about it. I mean...it's common sense to know that there is
somebody out there who won't think...and will just act...and if you
push that person's "buttons" the wrong way...you will get it...anybody
will get it in the end.
You know...I don't get you at all that much.... You "seem to try" to
complement me...and then you go around insulting me. Saying that I
"try" to pervert what you say and mean and all. It's the way it's
interpreted (sp?). I'm not perverting anything.... If you aren't
insulting me, make it clear then!
...Blah!
miyagami noriko
> "miyagami noriko" <kyok...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:<MC027.5444$Cs.2...@news.pacbell.net>...
> > I can say this, you have much to learn about the world, as well as
people.
>
> I do have a lot to learn...I don't know it all.......
>
> > > The thing is...his intent was "good"...but in the end look where it
> > > got him? And ppl are going to be looking at the end result.
> > >
> >
> > There is no such thing as the intent to scare being good. Scareing a
person
> > is preying upon negative and primal emotions. If you call that good then
you
> > have definately evolved from a different species than humanity.
>
> I was being sarcastic...you could say. ...I didn't mean it as it was
> actually a good thing...it's not a good thing...I don't condone
> threats or violence.... I was trying to say that he didn't mean to
> kill anyone...that being the 'good'...but in the end he did...and that
> ppl are looking at the fact that he killed somebody....
>
It is impossible for a person to utilize a weapon against another without
the intent to kill being there or just plain being stupid. A weapon is in
fact an item designed with the intent purpose of doing damage above and
beyond what is normally capable of being done by the person weilding it. A
gun of any kind is in and of itself a weapon designed for the express
purpose of killing. Any other interpretation of the said device is an
interpretation by an idiot.
Another way of putting it would be if I were to take my katana down off the
wall and use it on another human being. The Katana is a sword. A sword that
is designed to kill. It is not used for cutting carrots in order to make
salad, or for cutting wood to start a fire. It is to kill. Same as a gun. It
is an instrument used to invoke death.
> > > "Really?!" I didn't see anything you typed look like a metaphor....
> > > Please explain more...that surely was one poor metaphor.
> > >
> >
> > Perhaps you are incapable of seeing metaphors. I have found that the
level
> > of education, and/or experiance required to understand me fully is
generally
> > quite high. Something I have tried to change, but seem to be not able
to.
> > Part of the problem is that I give every person credit for knowing what
I
> > know until they prove themselves to be unable to cope with such.
>
> ...There you go again....
>
No, a simple response in turn to yours. You called it poor metaphoric
useage, I only ressponded by pointing out your ability to see metaphors was
poor. Most people here that I deal with as well as the many around the world
would concur.
> > As my favorite quote from A Fish Called Wanda says:
> > "Apes do to read philosophy Otto, they just do not understand it."
> >
> > - disclaimer: I am not calling you an ape.
>
> Now see...since you said that...I'm not taking it offensively...taking
> it the wrong way...what you should have done in the first place....
>
It is not my duty to follow up every statement I make with a disclaimer. If
your self esteem is so poor as to think everything is aimed at you, then do
something about it. I find it quite an insult that you would think that I
should cater ever single statement to fit to be unique for you.
> > > ?! Whatever. All I said is that you do care. And now I am
> > > "incapable of holding mu;tiple concepts in a single thread"? All
> > > cause I said that you do care? Lol! That's a new one!
> > >
> >
> > It is your actions. As above. I tend to tie together all threads into a
> > converation. So what is said here may have some bearing on the other
threads
> > we are discussing, or their content may also be influential on what I
say
> > here. This mostly because I assume people around me can deal with mass
> > information and multiple data streams easily. Since you have shown
yourself
> > incapable of that then I will have to find a way to accomodate you.
>
> Again, how did you come about this?! Where is this that you see that
> I am incapable of interlaced threads and whatnot? Cite me...where "I
> have been incapable of holding multiple concepts." I want to see
> this.... That is so f***ing bs.... ...And...how the fudge did me
> saying that you do care bring this bs of where I am incapable of blah
> blah blah? Where did all of that come from?!
>
If you were capable you would know.
> > > ...You're all talking about me being a statistic and shit, so the fuck
> > > what?! I can care less that I'm a statistic in your stupid studies.
> > > I serriously doubt the have any effect on me. So why the fuck would I
> > > care? Second...you are trying to divert the subject here. The thing
> > > is...you ma'am are not the pacifist you claim to be, insulting me and
> > > all.
> >
> > No... here you try ti interpret my words into a negative meaning. I
actually
> > complemented you for your help, and pointed out how useful you are being
> > right now. If you translate that into the whole term "statistic", then
> > chance has it that you have translated many other things into a negative
> > meaning. Though this is classic for people who show other types of
symptoms
> > and behavior that you illustrate, I think with time we can learn to work
> > around it.
>
> Complementing me? I was trying to be a nice person and tell you what
> "0wnz" meant cause I honestly thought you didn't know what it
> meant...that's what I got from your posts...then you start insulting
> me more after I tried to help ya...what gives? And there you go
> again.... "Though this is classic for people who show other types of
> symptoms and behavior that you illustrate...." That right there is
> insulting...it's like you are telling me that I'm some stupid shmo or
> whatever.
>
You do show certian symptoms that are classic for certian behavior patterns,
usually interlaced. But then so do I, so it is not that big of an insult
unless you consider being mostly predictable to be an insult. I did state we
could perhaps work around it, possibly poor phrasing on my part. The actual
meaning of that statement was that I believe we are more than capable of
placeing things in the past that have transpired, and work anew from an
understanding.
> > > So using my past as an example automatically means that I'm doing a
> > > poor job of dealing with it? Lol...okay...that's a new one too.
> > > ...Making false accusations on things...don't even know me. How dare
> > > you make false accusations when you have no clue who I am, or my past?
> > > ...Right there just shows your stupidity...you certainly DON'T KNOW
> > > me...so you are being stupid with your accusations.
> > >
> >
> > To be honest, I predicted such an answer. But other than that I will
> > withdraw my commentary on your past. Of course you are requested to
withdraw
> > your commentaries on mine as well. See this is not a stream where all
things
> > flow the direction of Oyans desire... This is more like the wind.
>
> First of all, I'm not saying what I say goes, or what I say is the
> law, okay?! Last of all...I don't know who you are...you just appear
> to be a snob...that's why I call you one...cause you appear to be.
>
Appearances are the most deceptive thing of all.
It has been attempted. People in this country are surprisingl bad at hitting
their target. Those that seem to be capable of such are unable to deal with
other forms of defense. I have met one though who does quite well. He is a
good friend now. Met him in the hospital after he took five bullets to the
chest area. Long story... might tell it someday.
Then we see eye to eye on that topic. Though you may call them insults, I
call them stating what I see. Much like you and your constant snob
references.
Common sense is that people should learn to cope or die. Death comes for all
any way.
Interpretation is the way of things. It is the duty of the interpretee to
make sure they understood the items correctly as the presenter has no idea
how the interpretee interpreted the presentation. Since you keep placing in
your statements that I do not know you, then perhaps you should understand
that though people around here and that I am used to dealing with understand
my methodology and I can predict how each and every one of them will respond
to anything, and I do not have to reiterate for each of them custom
statements designed for their particular psyche, let alone that they all
know if they interpreted something as a negative that it is generally thier
duty to ask clairification as they are the one interpreting.
Hope that makes sense.
My offer to drop the past still stands.
Oyan
I'm through talking to you. You turn things around, and switch words
and meanings around...well fuck you. Trying make yourself look better
and all...fuck you and your bs. I will no longer read, nor respond to
your posts, so you'll be wasting your time replying to my replies to
you Ms. Noriko. Goodbye.
Oyan
miyagami noriko
just seems that is the sort of thing people say to begin a statement. Sort
of like the "This hurts me more than it hurts you". Its like a
justification.
I see you truncated the thread. Thought you were against that kind of
action.
I personally do not mind. It is rare that a person likes to see an honest
analisys of their tactics. Its worse when I analize people at Gomoku or even
chess. They hate that. But then all forms of combat are about the psyche.
I did offer peace, and the agreement to drop everything back into the past.
You truncated that out as well. It was not a very kind thing to do. It is
almost like you want to be the one to end everything. A final burst of
masculine power. Like a star falling through the sky, burning hot but for
such a short period of time.
I will appologise though for the pointing out the overall insignificance we
all share in the grand scheme of things.I have found that is by far the
hardest concept for people to accept. Right now in another facet of
existance there is an individual who is slightly upset because I answered
his purpose of life question. The purpose in my opinion, of life, is to die.
Apparently he is baptist and is incapable of understanding the inevitable.
Anyway I guess that is it.
I do not expect an answer to this, after all it is nothing more than some
closing thoughts to wrap up this thread.
Give yourself a few years. You will get better.
ja ne...
"Oyan" <Oih...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:93d4ed1.01071...@posting.google.com...