re spray - too cheap?
Mike Taylor
soon to be metallic green / red / blue - when she and I agree).
The quotes range from 3500 down to 700.
all are for exactly the same scope of work, an exterior-only respray, incl.
patching up the bottoms of the doors.
Can anyone think of a reason NOT to go for the cheapest? He is an old guy,
ex bodywork main repairer for the local car dealer. One of the reasons hes
cheaper is probably that hes a one-man-band, in a backstreet garage, the
other 2 are much bigger with presumably higher overheads.
The only problem I can see is that he's never done a landrover before (but
how much harder can they be than something like a frontera, which he has
done?). Any diamond tips from those of you brave enough to try a respray
yourselves which I should make sure he knows about before he starts?
thanks in advance
Mike
(attempting a heater matrix flush this weekend cos I canna take it much
longer..)
Mark S
and the low price is because he has very low overhead (not skimping on paint
or time).
You could ask to see some of his prior work.
/Mark
"Mike Taylor" <mike....@rowing.org.uk> wrote in message
news:aveq30$ersk8$1...@ID-173294.news.dfncis.de...
john hirst
air dry
Fergus Kendall
acid etch traetment and primer for £700 at a professional bodyshop
(Technicolour Ltd Loughborough), cheapest quote i had was £250 but that was
for synthetic paint rather than 2 pac, I have since done my other Defender
in Red myself with very good results, cost me about 100quid that way and I
still have 3-4 litres of 2pac high build primer left.
Here is a picture of my black 90 after it's £700 paint job:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.alferey/My90.JPG
I had to strip all the trim off myself but all prepping and paintwork was
included.
Hope this helps,
Fergus
"Mike Taylor" <mike....@rowing.org.uk> wrote in message
news:aveq30$ersk8$1...@ID-173294.news.dfncis.de...
Keith J. Hutt
"Mike Taylor" <mike....@rowing.org.uk> wrote in message
news:aveq30$ersk8$1...@ID-173294.news.dfncis.de...
acid etch traetment and primer for £700 at a professional bodyshop
(Technicolour Ltd Loughborough), cheapest quote i had was £250 but that was
for synthetic paint rather than 2 pac, I have since done my other Defender
in Red myself with very good results, cost me about 100quid that way and I
still have 3-4 litres of 2pac high build primer left
2 PAC is Synthetic!!!!
All quotes seem bloody expensive to me but without seeing it hard to really
tell
for £700 it should be done clear over base!!
1994 RR cost £300 in clear over base last year.
Ref synthetic paints one of the main reasons they are used in body shops is
that the preparation
need not be a good as with cellulose.
Keith (ex painter)
Fergus Kendall
Fergus
"Keith J. Hutt" <g0...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:104197050...@demeter.uk.clara.net...
Phil Gardiner
Keith J. Hutt <g0...@clara.net> spouted forth:
> I had my Defender 90 resprayed in non metallic black inside and out
> with
> acid etch traetment and primer for £700 at a professional bodyshop
> (Technicolour Ltd Loughborough), cheapest quote i had was £250 but
> that was for synthetic paint rather than 2 pac, I have since done my
> other Defender in Red myself with very good results, cost me about
> 100quid that way and I still have 3-4 litres of 2pac high build
> primer left
>
> 2 PAC is Synthetic!!!!
>
> All quotes seem bloody expensive to me but without seeing it hard to
> really tell
> for £700 it should be done clear over base!!
> 1994 RR cost £300 in clear over base last year.
> Ref synthetic paints one of the main reasons they are used in body
> shops is that the preparation
> need not be a good as with cellulose.
> Keith (ex painter)
How much did all the fresh air mask equipment cost you though?
--
Phil Gardiner
(Self appointed FAQ compiler http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info)
richard
> 2 PAC is Synthetic!!!!
> Keith (ex painter)
it's not "synthetic".
richard[ex painter]
QrizB
wrote:
Well, it sure ain't "natural" either.
--
QrizB
I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but don't
be fooled.
vince
"Phil Gardiner" <news...@erinues.dyndns.org> wrote in message
news:avfl1i$eqjji$1@ID-
>
> How much did all the fresh air mask equipment cost you though?
>
> --
> Phil Gardiner
I use a British Army gas mask with new filters - if they can stop an NBC
attack they should be good enough.Never had a whiff of anything come
through!
I bought 2on the net for £20 each and they were like new. The trouble is
since sept 11th they are now £80 each!!!
Mike Taylor
news:3e1b13dd$0$225$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Does it gey treated in an oven when sprayed ? He may only spray and let it
> air dry
>
its air dried.
How much difference is there in the final finish between the two? I dont
think that any of the places I've got quotes from are oven dried...
mike
Stephen Hull
Qr...@dev.nul (QrizB) wrote:
>On 7 Jan 2003 19:09:08 -0800, ric...@integerspin.co.uk (richard)
>wrote:
>
>>"Keith J. Hutt" wrote in message news:
>>> 2 PAC is Synthetic!!!!
>>> Keith (ex painter)
>>
>>it's not "synthetic".
>>richard [ex painter]
>
>Well, it sure ain't "natural" either.
>
The term "two pack" can be applicable to more than just one substance,
for example Synthetic, Acrylic or Polyurethane finishes often contain
additives usually an activator or a thinner.
Modern two pack is more likely to be an Acrylic with an added resin and
isocyanate activator, Two pack dries by chemical reaction.
A single pack paint is an air drying substrate, You can add activators
to ordinary synthetic single pack paint but it then becomes a two pack
and will dry by chemical reaction.
Steve.
--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coachpainting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
StrongARM Powered Risc PC 600, 80Mb + 2MbVram, RISC OS 4
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
Stephen Hull
"Mike Taylor" <mike....@rowing.org.uk> wrote:
The main difference in oven dried finishes is toughness.
Baked on paint materials become stoved enamelled finishes which are
impervious to (there own) solvent reaction.
Cellulose "Flowline" in particular was designed to flow out hence being
called flowline, Flowline re-flows when baked in a spray oven which will
result in a near perfect finish requiring very little polishing.
Phil Gardiner
Stephen Hull <st...@painting-pointers.co.uk> spouted forth:
> The term "two pack" can be applicable to more than just one substance,
> for example Synthetic, Acrylic or Polyurethane finishes often contain
> additives usually an activator or a thinner.
>
> Modern two pack is more likely to be an Acrylic with an added resin
> and isocyanate activator, Two pack dries by chemical reaction.
>
> A single pack paint is an air drying substrate, You can add activators
> to ordinary synthetic single pack paint but it then becomes a two pack
> and will dry by chemical reaction.
>
> Steve.
Please note the following for all those who are considering using these
Acrylic (Isocyanate based) two pack paints:
1. They should not be inhaled.
2. If inhaled, even in relatively small quantities, they can cause long
term asthma and, potentially, severely reduced lung function.
Is it really worth a couple of hundred (pounds, dollars etc. etc.) in
comparison with your long term health? If you're only doing the one vehicle
then the safety equipment required is likely to far outweigh the saving made
by doing it yourself. I'm going to investigate Vince's use of an Army gas
mask for this purpose but initial indications are that they may NOT actually
filter out the harmful parts of the paint as the filtering properties are
dependent on the filter used (I believe the Armed Forces have a variety of
different filters to cope with the variation in perceived threat).
Steve
shine without an oven.
steve
"Stephen Hull" <st...@painting-pointers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4a4dc1b1...@btinternet.com...
Stephen Hull
"Steve" <spam<landr...@davies045.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>I thought 2 pack was the paint these day's, with this you can get a good
>shine without an oven.
>steve
Two pack is THE (professionally used) paint these days and it's still
used in vehicle manufacturing although some manufactures are now using
water based products. Two pack will continue to be extensively used in
the car repair sector because it has a naturally quick turn round
whether baked on or not IYSWIM.
You will always get a superior shine with two pack whether you use an
oven or not it's the resin in a paint that actually creates the shine.
A spray oven simply cures paint quicker being force dried creating a
harder finish.
"Air drying single pack" synthetic paint dries exceptionally shiny and
doesn't need polishing but you can't polish synthetic Linseed oil based
paint as it leaves behind a skin or film layers when dry as opposed to a
two pack paint which leaves a solid block of cured paint behind.
"Chemically cured two pack" also dries exceptionally shiny but it can be
re-flatted and polished many times.
Two pack even if it hasn't been baked in an oven is a very tough durable
paint finish but oven baking ensures longer durability and it therefore
becomes more resistant to solvent attacks etc.
Any paint can be oven baked, A baked substrate will naturally become a
tougher substance.
Stephen Hull
"Phil Gardiner" <news...@erinues.dyndns.org> wrote:
>In news:65cdc0b1...@btinternet.com,
>Stephen Hull <st...@painting-pointers.co.uk> spouted forth:
>>
>> Modern two pack is more likely to be an Acrylic with an added resin
>> and isocyanate activator, Two pack dries by chemical reaction.
>
>Please note the following for all those who are considering using these
>Acrylic (Isocyanate based) two pack paints:
>
>1. They should not be inhaled.
>2. If inhaled, even in relatively small quantities, they can cause long
>term asthma and, potentially, severely reduced lung function.
>
Indeed!
richard
OK 2 pack is a 2 part acrylic enamel, but it's nothing like the paints
I think of as a sythetic, like speedcoat or the ici transport. anyone
can squirt a near perfect coat of 2 pack on but trasports I have seen
some appaling coats of transport, even though it flows out so nice,
saying that I have seen the outline on the floor where people have
used transort and it's literally fallen off;-) stand well back, squirt
it on and
pull it tight at the corners.
one of the companies, speirhackers[?] was it, were using a system
that you chucked an activator in to make the system 2 pack or sold
"as was" as synthetic.
but it wasn't synthetic as in, like speedcoat and the ici transports,
they were polyurathanes.
Stephen Hull
ric...@integerspin.co.uk (richard) wrote:
>> >> and isocyanate activator,
>OK 2 pack is a 2 part acrylic enamel, but it's nothing like the paints
>I think of as a sythetic, like speedcoat or the ici transport.
Speedcoat and other types of transport synthetic finishes are single
pack they do not contain isocyanates and they generally can be applied
by either brush or spray. These transport type or fleet finishes are
much faster air drying synthetics that are mainly designed for spray
application, If brush applied the finish is usually very poor because
transport paint finishes dry far too quickly and don't fully flow out
when compared with a true coach enamel.
Transport paints are designed solely with speed in mind to achieve a
fast method of spraying fleet vehicles and are totally unsuitable for
quality brush painting. Transport paints contain faster thinners to
increase drying times and they are indeed faster Polyurethane based
paints rather than slower drying Linseed oil based.
Linseed oil based synthetics are far superior for hand application
and use a slow drying thinner allowing brush strokes and other minor
imperfections to flow out properly. Linseed oil based paint can also be
sprayed on but a faster thinner is required which defeats the object.
I've tried to hand paint Speedcoat and other variants before today and
found the paint totally unsuitable in spite of paint factors telling me
it's coachpaint, This particular type of so called coachpaint IMO was
unfit for quality brush work of any measure.
As far as Cellulose and other faster drying paints are compared, Single
pack synthetics are very slow drying and it's often very easy to make a
pigs ear by simply being too impatient by not allowing sufficient time
to "flash off" or by applying to much paint in one single application.
>anyone can squirt a near perfect coat of 2 pack on but trasports I have
>seen some appaling coats of transport, even though it flows out so
>nice, saying that I have seen the outline on the floor where people
>have used transort and it's literally fallen off;-) stand well back,
>squirt it on and pull it tight at the corners.
Two pack paints and synthetics use little solvent which leaves the paint
medium quite heavy to apply and because it takes ages to dry overspray
falls to the ground still wet, Cellulose consists of a very fast drying
thinner so overspray dries "airborne" and when this falls to the ground
it forms a layer of dry paint dust not a wet sticky layer of paint that
two packs and synthetics usually leave behind.
>one of the companies, speirhackers[?] was it, were using a system
>that you chucked an activator in to make the system 2 pack or sold
>"as was" as synthetic.
>but it wasn't synthetic as in, like speedcoat and the ici transports,
>they were polyurathanes.
IIRC this type of synthetic was Polyurathane and these particular
additives are not normally used in linseed oil based paint.
Synthetic resins can be in many guises including Alkyd and Acrylic.
Steve.