"New" gearbox needed
Daniel Collins
The gearbox in my 1970 series IIA is falling apart - first gear appears
to have some damaged/missing teeth and I think the layshaft bearings are
on their way out. I'm looking for a late suffix (non-syncro) IIA box to
replace it with, I'm not too fussed about condition beyond casing not
damaged and serviceable shafts/gears would be nice as well since I will
be rebuilding it. Does anyone have a spare box they could let go of?
Alternately, if I can't find a II/IIA box as they seem to be scarce on
eBay, I may fit a D suffix SIII box, however I have read conflicting
information on this. Some say that you can fit an SIII box using the SII
bellhousing and clutch parts, some say you must use the SIII bellhousing
and clutch parts. Does anyone have any insights/experience into this?
Thanks
EMB
AIUI the bellhousings are totally interchangeable between all IIA and
III gearboxes. I'm sure that an equal and opposite expert will be along
shortly to prove me wrong.
Oily
"EMB" wrote.......
> Daniel Collins wrote:
The bellhousings are all interchangeable to the main casing but it's not
quite so simple. 2A bellhousings are deeper to accomodate the early coil
spring clutch cover and release mechanism. When this was upgraded to
diaphragm spring operation and 9 1/2" plate, a spacing boss was fitted to
the spring tines on the cover plate but discarded on the shallower Series 3
which had a shorter bellhousing. The clutch slave cylinder on the Series 3
is also on the opposite side of the housing and if you want to keep the
original setup you can fit the 2A housing on the main box quite easily but
you will need to change the constant mesh gear pair. To fit the Series 3
gearbox you will also need a Series 3 clutch, the slave cylinder and
associated piping and need to cut the left hand side gusset plate at the
front on the gearbox crossmember under the bellhousing. Not that you would
want to do it but the Series 3 bellhousing will fit on the 2A main casing
but not with the original gear set
Oh, and I don't know where you are but I have plenty of new bearings
(genuine parts) and gears etc new and s/hand for your 2A, and gaskets. I
don't repair these any more (I'm too old) but have still got some stock.
andrew
> AIUI the bellhousings are totally interchangeable between all IIA and
> III gearboxes. I'm sure that an equal and opposite expert will be along
> shortly to prove me wrong.
That's what I thought. The only diffenrece between the 11a and 3 being the
syncro on first, which meant the 3 layshaft was one piece with narrower
gears as a result??
I may have one I was holding for someone here but it will be an effort to
unearth it.
Where is it needed?
AJH
Daniel Collins
I'm in Gosport (south england)
Daniel Collins
Gosport (on the south coast of england), do you know which suffix the
spare box is?
Thanks
andrew
>
> Gosport (on the south coast of england), do you know which suffix the
> spare box is?
No, tell me where to look and I'll root around for it. There's no knowing
what condition it's in, the owner emigrated and said it was good when I
picked it up.
I'm working Brockenhurst this weekend nights so will commute via M3-M27
AJH
Daniel Collins
I belive it should either be stamped on top of the transfer box, on the
raised end which bolts to the gearbox, or on the gearbox top cover.
Thanks
andrew
> I belive it should either be stamped on top of the transfer box, on the
> raised end which bolts to the gearbox, or on the gearbox top cover.
The bell housing is detached and there is some rust, the layshaft seems to
be one piece so series 3 sn90104992
AJH
Daniel Collins
I'm not sure I understand this, are you saying I only need to replace
the input pinion and layshaft input gear to use a S3 box in an S2 with
the existing bellhousing and clutch assembly?
Alex
I dont know about the later IIa/III boxes, but the bellhousings are
not interchangeable on early IIa boxes. Series IIA 2.25 Suffix A and B
boxes have different layshaft front bearings and the bellhousings are
not interchangeable. These bellhousings/gearboxes will certainly not
fit anything SIII.
Alex
Alex
Transfer boxes have thier own serial numbers with suffix letters
stamped on them, they differ as well. the gearbox number is on the top
plate that covers the selector linkages.
Alex
EMB
>
> I dont know about the later IIa/III boxes, but the bellhousings are
> not interchangeable on early IIa boxes. Series IIA 2.25 Suffix A and B
> boxes have different layshaft front bearings and the bellhousings are
> not interchangeable. These bellhousings/gearboxes will certainly not
> fit anything SIII.
I was under the impression that the layshaft front bearing changed when
the II became the IIa.
Oily
"Alex" <nospa...@cbmsys.co.uk> wrote in message
news:negtg5ltnkmokugcm...@4ax.com...
The series 3 layshaft will not fit the early small bearing bellhousing but
you could certainly change enough parts/ shafts to effect a repair and make
it fit, you could even turn the shaft down to fit the bearing. You have no
reason to go to this much trouble. If you have a spare, good series 3 box
and you want to keep it appearing original then you can fit the 2A
bellhousing on to any series 3 gearbox providing you also change the input
shaft with constant gear pair as I said before. Anything and every type can
be adapted to fit with not too much trouble, it just depends on your spares
availability and situation. Therefore I beg to differ.
Alex
The bellhousing casting for suffix A/B boxes has a smaller hole to
locate the early, smaller layshaft front bearing. Turning a layshaft
down to accept this bearing would not be a good idea, the layshaft
bearing was increased in size because the power/torque available from
the 2.25 engine was causing premature layshaft bearing failure. The
A/B boxes also have differing ratios for 1st/reverse to adjust for the
change in transfer box ratio that occoured between the two boxes due
to a change in size of the transfer box intermediate shaft. These
changes were implemented in early Series IIA production when the
introduction of the larger engines showed permature failures in these
components, as the gearbox otherwise largely the same as fitted to
the IOE engine.
Therefore fitting a IIA Suffix A/B bellhousing to a S3 gearbox is
impossible without major work to the gearbox.
Oily
"Alex" <nospa...@cbmsys.co.uk> wrote............
>
> The bellhousing casting for suffix A/B boxes has a smaller hole to
> locate the early, smaller layshaft front bearing. Turning a layshaft
> down to accept this bearing would not be a good idea, the layshaft
> bearing was increased in size because the power/torque available from
> the 2.25 engine was causing premature layshaft bearing failure.
FFS. I didn't say it was a good idea, I said it could be done. Someone asked
a question and got an answer. I see you don't argue with the rest of it as
you obviously do not know.
The
> A/B boxes also have differing ratios for 1st/reverse to adjust for the
> change in transfer box ratio that occoured between the two boxes due
> to a change in size of the transfer box intermediate shaft. These
> changes were implemented in early Series IIA production when the
> introduction of the larger engines showed permature failures in these
> components, as the gearbox otherwise largely the same as fitted to
> the IOE engine.
Tell me something I don't know
>
> Therefore fitting a IIA Suffix A/B bellhousing to a S3 gearbox is
> impossible without major work to the gearbox.
IIA Suffix A/B, with big bearing?? He did say it was 1970! Major?? As I
have said *twice* before, just put in the constant mesh gears as well.
Tosser, now FRO.
Alex
>>
>> Therefore fitting a IIA Suffix A/B bellhousing to a S3 gearbox is
>> impossible without major work to the gearbox.
>
>IIA Suffix A/B, with big bearing?? He did say it was 1970! Major?? As I
>have said *twice* before, just put in the constant mesh gears as well.
>Tosser, now FRO.
Once again, you completely miss the point. I shall explain it in words
of one syllable.
You can not fit a bell hous-ing from an ear-ly box with the small
lay-shaft bear-ing to a box with the big lay-shaft bear-ing. It does
not mat-ter how many times you swap the cons-tant mesh gears the
lay-shaft will not fit the bear-ing. And you can-not fit the com-plete
lay-shaft from the ear-ly box to the la-ter box be-cause the gear
rat-io-s are diff-er-ent
Now fuck off before i sling a suffix A bellhousing at you.
Oily
>
> I'm not sure I understand this, are you saying I only need to replace
> the input pinion and layshaft input gear to use a S3 box in an S2 with
> the existing bellhousing and clutch assembly?
Yes, exactly that, using the bellhousing, front cover, input shaft and
front layshaft gear from the 2A providing the front layshaft bearing is the
same size as the series 3, and of course, the front gear pair from the 2A
are not damaged.
As you say the car is a 1970 2A you should be ok but there is a
possibility that an earlier Series2 gearbox has been fitted which has the
smaller front bearing as Alex pointed out, quite likely as it is nearly 40
years old.
As EMB pointed out, they are all interchangeable as far as the fitment
of the bellhousing to the main casing but some replacements would need quite
a lot of work and sorting of parts.
Fitting the Series3 does give you all synchro forward gears and a
stronger box but a weaker reverse.
Oily
You don't know much do you? Can you do joined up writing or is that also
too much to understand?