Which paint?
Idris
As it main use will be off road what is the most durable paint that will be
suitable?
Gerald
icky
"Idris" <Id...@daviesrus.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:e0mc9n$f6d$1...@news.freedom2surf.net...
I used a synthetic coach type paint to spray my s2a with very very shinney
finish mud washed off very easily but limited colours available and it takes
ages to properly harden
Icky
Stephen Hull
"Idris" <Id...@daviesrus.f2s.com> wrote:
The most durable paint will be a twin-pack or two-pack which
unfortunately contain isocyanate and for this reason alone is not
recommended for home use. You need special spray equipment to spray
twin-pack paint, an air fed mask, air filter and a proper spray booth
are essential. Twin-pack (called urethane in the USA) is also the most
expensive method of applying paint.
Twin-pack paint dries or cures by chemical reaction, it is usually the
activator or hardener that contains isocyanate not necessarily the paint
itself.
Application is a bit like spraying synthetic, thick and heavy.
The second most durable paint will be an acrylic (single-pack) base that
dries by solvent evaporation, tough but can be quite brittle.
Acrylic is relatively cheap but spray application only.
The third is probably cellulose, also single-pack which is almost as
good as acrylic, similar to apply as acrylic and spray only but dries
faster, also dries by solvent evaporation and leaves a slightly softer
finish than acrylic does. Also cheap and easy to apply although some
paint outlets won't sell to Joe Public due to solvent emission
regulations etc.
A fourth method is to use a synthetic (turpentine) base paint that is
also single-pack which can be applied by spray, roller or brush, it
requires a certain level of skill to apply by brush but is very cheap,
so if you damage a panel off roading you can simply repaint again
without needing specialist equipment and doesn't need compounding to
achieve a shine, unlike all the others.
Most synthetics are alkyd resin which is pretty tough for a synthetic
oil base paint.
Steve.
--
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
AJG
<St...@127.0.0.1> writes
>In message <e0mc9n$f6d$1...@news.freedom2surf.net>
> "Idris" <Id...@daviesrus.f2s.com> wrote:
>
>
>A fourth method is to use a synthetic (turpentine) base paint that is
>also single-pack which can be applied by spray, roller or brush, it
>requires a certain level of skill to apply by brush but is very cheap,
>so if you damage a panel off roading you can simply repaint again
>without needing specialist equipment and doesn't need compounding to
>achieve a shine, unlike all the others.
>
brush or roller finish Steve?
Also is natural turpentine recommended as the thinner for spraying?
--
AndyG
Idris
"Stephen Hull" <St...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:a1314f11...@btinternet.com...
Thanks for that detailed reply, looks like its 1 as its tough or 4 as its
cheap.
I am told that autopiant international do a two pack that uses a
non-icocyanate hardener, would this be safe to spray at home?
Can you give me an example of a product from the 4th type?
Gerald
Stephen Hull
"Idris" <Id...@daviesrus.f2s.com> wrote:
>> Most synthetics are alkyd resin which is pretty tough for a synthetic
>> oil base paint.
>>
>> Steve.
>>
>Thanks for that detailed reply, looks like its 1 as its tough or 4 as
>its cheap.
>
>I am told that autopiant international do a two pack that uses a
>non-icocyanate hardener, would this be safe to spray at home?
I'm not familiar with their latest products, I would suggest you ask them
as modified alkyd resins typically use isocyanate which gives them added
strength, faster drying and chemical resistance.
I do not know how a non-isocyanate hardener would perform in paint.
There are isocyanate free products than can be equally unhealthy so
I'd check with your paint supplier and ask for their data sheets.
>Can you give me an example of a product from the 4th type?
Tekaloid synthetic enamel to name one, autopaint do their own version
as do many other paint outlets, the choice is down to you really but
spraying synthetic is prettey much the same as any other.
The true quality of a synthetic reveals itself when you try to apply it
by brush.
Stephen Hull
AJG <N...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
You can use natural turpentine for sprayiny and genuine for brushing,
Tekaloid recommend TN07 for gloss which is white spirit base.
White spirit is a clear colourless mineral thinner which is a petroleum
distillate with properties similar to turpentine.
Turpentine substitute is a yellowish or brownish oleoresin obtained from
arious coniferous trees, but is more suited to cleaning purposes or to
use with undercoats.
Genuine turpentine is the best quality and traditionally used for mixing
with and diluting oil paint.
I have some Tekaloid work to do soon on the tub of my 2a, I'm thinking
of doing a sample paint test with and without Owatrol and report my
findings here or on my site.
Austin Shackles
enlightened us thusly:
>Genuine turpentine is the best quality and traditionally used for mixing
>with and diluting oil paint.
but where does it *come* from?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.
Stephen Hull
Austin Shackles <austin...@ddol-las.net> wrote:
Turpentine comes from the *pine* tree where it is distilled.
The degree of distillation can vary from the same source, which is why
you can get genuine turpentine, turpentine or turpentine substitute from
the same tree.
Mineral thinners/white spirits are petroleum based and generally called
synthetic thinners cos they're man made.
beamendsltd
Stephen Hull <St...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> In message <ib52325u06hb99g2l...@4ax.com>
> Austin Shackles <austin...@ddol-las.net> wrote:
>
> >On or around Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:46:02 +0100, Stephen Hull <St...@127.0.0.1>
> >enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >>Genuine turpentine is the best quality and traditionally used for mixing
> >>with and diluting oil paint.
> >
> >but where does it *come* from?
> >--
> >Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> >"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
> >from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
> >horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
> >Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.
>
> Turpentine comes from the *pine* tree where it is distilled.
> The degree of distillation can vary from the same source, which is why
> you can get genuine turpentine, turpentine or turpentine substitute from
> the same tree.
>
> Mineral thinners/white spirits are petroleum based and generally called
> synthetic thinners cos they're man made.
Hence they don't taste as good ;-)
>
> Steve.
>
>
Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sa...@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
Stephen Hull
>>
>> Mineral thinners/white spirits are petroleum based and generally called
>> synthetic thinners cos they're man made.
>
>Hence they don't taste as good ;-)
>
>Richard
>
BTW Richard, I've not forgot the order, I'm still waiting for the powers
to be to release the funding and I was told it would take two weeks,
that was nearly a month ago.
Do you also supply boxes of nuts and bolts so I can assemble the seat
frames, half inch and 7 sixteenths for example?
Richard Brookman
> Turpentine comes from the *pine* tree where it is distilled.
> The degree of distillation can vary from the same source, which is why
> you can get genuine turpentine, turpentine or turpentine substitute
> from the same tree.
Ray Mears was on the TV last night reporting from a remote forest in
Belorussia, and showed how the Russian partisans used to distil birch bark
(heat for a long time in a tin) to give a black oily substance that they
used as a substitute for motor grease. Looks like a similar process.
--
Rich
==============================
There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.
Larry
Just can't get it nowadays, there used to be at least two places in Coventry
where you could, but the last of them only supplies Mason's now and they
couldn't figure out what was a proper Land Rover code, not that I would have
been that bothered given the state of the paint work, but there you go.
Painted my scooters with Tekaloid but that was back in the days when some
buses still had the engine at the front.
Ah linseed oil and builders putty, Ou sont les neiges d'antan?
--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes
"Stephen Hull" <St...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:87b7b611...@btinternet.com...
Stephen Hull
"Larry" <N...@larry-arnold.cwm> wrote:
>Tekaloid !!!!
>
>Just can't get it nowadays, there used to be at least two places in
>Coventry where you could, but the last of them only supplies Mason's
>now and they couldn't figure out what was a proper Land Rover code, not
>that I would have been that bothered given the state of the paint work,
>but there you go.
>
>Painted my scooters with Tekaloid but that was back in the days when
>some buses still had the engine at the front.
>
>Ah linseed oil and builders putty, Ou sont les neiges d'antan?
>
The paint manufacturer Thornley and Knight was founded in 1797 and
sometime thereafter (probably mid 1800's) formulated Tekaloid coach
enamel which has been used for over a hundred years as a carriage and
vehicle paint.
During the 1970's Thornley and Knight were taken over by Croda paints
who kept manufacturing Tekaloid paint in more or less the same formulae
and volume.
During the late 80's or early 90's Croda paints were taken over by
Ameron coatings, around this time the old linseed oil formulae was
changed to a more durable alkyd resin base (IIRC).
The bad news;
Ameron (an American company) had no interest in the small coach painting
market or paint manufacturer in the UK.
Ameron are big, they are more into marine and offshore structures, oil,
gas etc. So Ameron in their infinite wisdom decided to specify a minimum
order of 20 litres when ordering Tekaloid, then 40 and the last count
was 60 litres per order of Tekaloid.
This ordering method unfortunately had a huge impact on Tekaloid sales
and stockists, some of which are only small family run businesses who at
one time could order Tekaloid directly from the manufacturer in very
small quantities but this was not profitable enough for Ameron.
Ameron introduced their ordering method during the decline in coach
enamels and this eventually caused an even bigger slump in orders,
obviously because some (probably all) paint stockists could not afford
to carry 1200 ukp worth of paint in one go so started looking elsewhere
for coach enamels or coach paints. This is why Masons and other paint
manufactures have been more successful.
the good news;
However unbeknown to everyone Tekaloid although not stocked at paint
stockist anymore almost disappeared overnight which left only two
companies (to my knowledge) still manufacturing Tekaloid, the Avenue
group and Breakwells paints, these two companies who are big enough have
setup paint mixing in the original Tekaloid formulae.
So thats why Tekaloid is not widely available but nevertheless still
obtainable. Tekaloid can now be mixed to specification by the two outlets
mentioned above means that almost any straight colour can be mixed in
Tekaloid, which broadens the colour range dramatically as opposed to the
original Tekaloid colour rage having less than a hundred colous to
choose from, now has thousands.
Stephen Hull
"Richard Brookman" <new...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>...and Stephen Hull spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
>> Turpentine comes from the *pine* tree where it is distilled.
>> The degree of distillation can vary from the same source, which is why
>> you can get genuine turpentine, turpentine or turpentine substitute
>> from the same tree.
>
>Ray Mears was on the TV last night reporting from a remote forest in
>Belorussia, and showed how the Russian partisans used to distil birch bark
>(heat for a long time in a tin) to give a black oily substance that they
>used as a substitute for motor grease. Looks like a similar process.
I didn't see the program but would have been particularly interested in
the extraction process.
A low quality turpentine is also extracted from the tree stump, this
produces turpentine which has a strong unpleasant smell and is mainly
used as an industrial grade more suited to cleaning, lubricating etc, a
bit like cellulose gun-wash when cleaning out your spray gun.
GbH
> Tekaloid !!!!
>
> Just can't get it nowadays, there used to be at least two places in
> Coventry where you could, but the last of them only supplies Mason's
> now and they couldn't figure out what was a proper Land Rover code,
> not that I would have been that bothered given the state of the paint
> work, but there you go.
>
> Painted my scooters with Tekaloid but that was back in the days when
> some buses still had the engine at the front.
>
> Ah linseed oil and builders putty, Ou sont les neiges d'antan?
Gone to soldiers, every one!
>
>
>
> "Stephen Hull" <St...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> news:87b7b611...@btinternet.com...
>> In message <m0GgmaLKB$LEF...@shedcity.demon.co.uk>
>> AJG <N...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> You can use natural turpentine for sprayiny and genuine for brushing,
>> Tekaloid recommend TN07 for gloss which is white spirit base.
>>
>> White spirit is a clear colourless mineral thinner which is a
>> petroleum distillate with properties similar to turpentine.
>>
>> Turpentine substitute is a yellowish or brownish oleoresin obtained
>> from arious coniferous trees, but is more suited to cleaning
>> purposes or to use with undercoats.
>>
>> Genuine turpentine is the best quality and traditionally used for
>> mixing with and diluting oil paint.
>>
>> I have some Tekaloid work to do soon on the tub of my 2a, I'm
>> thinking of doing a sample paint test with and without Owatrol and
>> report my findings here or on my site.
>>
>>
>> Steve.
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
>> Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
>> Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows
>> virus. "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry
>> Royce
--
"He who says it cannot be done is advised not to interrupt her doing
it."
The fiend of my fiend is my enema!
wil...@macleod-group.com
> However unbeknown to everyone Tekaloid although not stocked at paint
> stockist anymore almost disappeared overnight which left only two
> companies (to my knowledge) still manufacturing Tekaloid, the Avenue
> group and Breakwells paints,
And the Avenue Group have been in my experiance very helpful in
supplying vehicle sized quantities, pleasant to deal with and capable
of supplying original LR colours!
Regards
William MacLeod
(thanks for putting us on to them Steve :-)
Richard Brookman
> Tekaloid !!!!
>
> Ah linseed oil and builders putty, Ou sont les neiges d'antan?
>
From coach-painting to 15C French poetry in one thread. I love this group.
Stephen Hull
"wil...@macleod-group.com" <wil...@macleod-group.com> wrote:
My pleasure,
AJG
"wil...@macleod-group.com" <wil...@macleod-group.com> writes
>Stephen Hull wrote:
>
>> However unbeknown to everyone Tekaloid although not stocked at paint
>> stockist anymore almost disappeared overnight which left only two
>> companies (to my knowledge) still manufacturing Tekaloid, the Avenue
>> group and Breakwells paints,
>
>And the Avenue Group have been in my experiance very helpful in
>supplying vehicle sized quantities, pleasant to deal with and capable
>of supplying original LR colours!
>
you're painting it a different colour it may as well be *very*
different! :-)
--
AndyG
Austin Shackles
enlightened us thusly:
I fancy a metallic deep wine red - the kind of red wine that's almost purple
- for the new project, if it ever gets done.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)
Tim Hobbs
>
>I fancy a metallic deep wine red - the kind of red wine that's almost purple
>- for the new project, if it ever gets done.
That's pretty much what I went for with Burtt - a sort of metallic
burgundy. Damned if I can remember the name, but it was a standard
Freelander colour at the time and look very nice in the metal. My
spraying wasn't quite up to the task, sadly.
--
Tim Hobbs
'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
'06 Nissan Navara aka "The Truck"
Simon Isaacs
the following nonsense:
>
>>
>>I fancy a metallic deep wine red - the kind of red wine that's almost purple
>>- for the new project, if it ever gets done.
>
>That's pretty much what I went for with Burtt - a sort of metallic
>burgundy. Damned if I can remember the name, but it was a standard
>Freelander colour at the time and look very nice in the metal. My
>spraying wasn't quite up to the task, sadly.
When the light catches it right though, it does look quite good on the
bits where the spraying was okay.
We're still debating the colour scheme. Had a quote for vinyl wrap,
as it meant I could get Burt, Ernie, Big Bird and the rest of the gang
onto bURRt, but it was £3k without doing the roof...... Might make
repainting bURRT a Year 10 GCSE product design project, as they're
doing Graphics after Easter ;-)
--
Simon Isaacs
Peterborough 4x4 Club Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body shell, being bobbed and modded.....
Tim Hobbs
wrote:
>On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:50:44 +0100, Tim Hobbs <t...@spam.com> scribbled
>the following nonsense:
>
>>
>>>
>>>I fancy a metallic deep wine red - the kind of red wine that's almost purple
>>>- for the new project, if it ever gets done.
>>
>>That's pretty much what I went for with Burtt - a sort of metallic
>>burgundy. Damned if I can remember the name, but it was a standard
>>Freelander colour at the time and look very nice in the metal. My
>>spraying wasn't quite up to the task, sadly.
>
>When the light catches it right though, it does look quite good on the
>bits where the spraying was okay.
>
>We're still debating the colour scheme. Had a quote for vinyl wrap,
>as it meant I could get Burt, Ernie, Big Bird and the rest of the gang
>onto bURRt, but it was £3k without doing the roof...... Might make
>repainting bURRT a Year 10 GCSE product design project, as they're
>doing Graphics after Easter ;-)
Well, if that doesn't stop me wanting it back, nothing will!
The spraying was crap, mostly because I did such a good job on the
prep that I was thoroughly pissed off by the time the metallic went
on! I take some comfort from the fact that it didn't peel or flake
off, apart from the rather dodgy bit above the drivers door.
wil...@macleod-group.com
> The spraying was crap, mostly because I did such a good job on the
> prep that I was thoroughly pissed off by the time the metallic went
> on! I take some comfort from the fact that it didn't peel or flake
> off, apart from the rather dodgy bit above the drivers door.
I haven't seen your vehicle, but IMO you are in no position to judge
the spraying because you KNOW the bits that are bad! :-) One of my
pals was showing me his 90 which is nearing completion and pointing out
the poor bits - I could hardly notice them even when pointed out, and
when I did they were ALL in places that would be hidden - behind spare
wheel and the such like (it was also a metallic).
So, while you automatically look at the slightly dodgy bits, everyone
else sees the rest and thinks "oh, that's nice!" My MILs Ford Ka has
HUGE runs on paint in the INSIDE when I inspected it.... the big guys
don't always get it spot on either.
Regards
William MacLeod
(front wings in my case!)