OT: Auto Gearboxes - general
Bill
Apologies to anyone who has seen earlier postings elsewhere.
I've had 3 Carlton/Omega automatics. The gearboxes were fine on the
first 2 - went to 200k with no gearbox problems. The 3rd is just under
100k, and the gearbox is fine - it's just the rest of the car that they
ruined by the "facelift".
I've been looking at big-inside cars to replace it and had almost
decided to revert to manual with a new Nissan Note (also have a
scrappage trade-in), but its wheel well won't take a full sized spare.
Other similar vehicles are all too small internally so heads front or
back hit the roof or sides of the car or knees have to be removed to get
in the back..
So we ended up looking at a s/h Skoda Octavia with DSG gearbox. The
Fabia is too small.
Does anyone have any fact-based opinions on these? Does having 2
clutches and 2 gearboxes in there make them twice or half as likely to
fail? These gearboxes seem to mainly come attached to dual-mass
flywheels.
I read that gearbox repair costs are �1000, �3500 or cheap because the
clutches can possibly be replaced separately, but everything I've read
seems to be based on guesswork or hearsay.
.
Anyone have any fact-based views? I seem to remember from my Ford
Prefect days that ordinary clutches had to be replaced several times in
the life of the car.
PS changed the Defender for an auto Disco (now up to 160k) because of
knee problems, hence the auto love-in, but maybe a car clutch would be
lighter and OK. Need this vehicle to outlast me, and there is very
little spare cash. The mature lady we transport every day can't easily
get into the Disco..
--
Bill
hugh
<Billa...@gmail.com> writes
had any experience of them.
I do have a V8 Defender auto 1998 which I am very reluctant to part with
but unfortunately LR no longer offer it as a Defender option. Wish they
would do a DSG
I drove an Astra estate today through a bit of traffic. Why does
everyone put up with manual gearboxes?
--
hugh
It may be more complicated but is it better?
Bob Hobden
"Bill" wrote
If you want a huge inside car then look no further than a Skoda Superb, even
comes in cavernous Estate now. I know it's a crap name but don't knock it
until you have seen/tried one.
--
Regards
Bob Hobden
1986 90 Utility 2.5 petrol
Bill
<hugh@[127.0.0.1]> writes
>I do have a V8 Defender auto 1998 which I am very reluctant to part
>with but unfortunately LR no longer offer it as a Defender option. Wish
>they would do a DSG
One thing I can't get my head round is how a DSG would work getting out
of my drive, which involves (Disco) full lock backwards up a slope. The
pavement is also screened to either side, so I have to be able to stop
instantly if a child or doddery person walks across at the wrong moment.
The torque converter deals with this fine, slipping for England, but if
I understand right, a DSG is either in or out of gear, and there is no
clutch pedal to slip. Does a computer slip the clutch? I suppose I'll
have to insist on a test drive backwards up a hill!
--
Bill
Bill
<Bo...@invalid.com> writes
>If you want a huge inside car then look no further than a Skoda Superb,
>even comes in cavernous Estate now. I know it's a crap name but don't
>knock it until you have seen/tried one.
The dealer has got 2 DSG ones, one of which is in my price range. I've
been holding off because they are both V6 diesels and are in a car tax
bracket that is on an upward slope. I was also worried that the mpg
would not be as good.
I simply don't trust the politicians and the tax grab they will have to
make to make us pay for their and the banks' incompetence.
The big/little Nissan is low tax and dropping, the Octavia is just about
car tax affordable and only on a small upward trajectory.
--
Bill
Dave Liquorice
> I've been holding off because they are both V6 diesels and are in a car
> tax bracket that is on an upward slope.
If car tax is a major part of the costs of you running a car then I
suggest that taxis might be a better option as you can't be doing
many miles. B-)
The last year ownership of a DII doing 17445 miles:
Service, MOT, Tax 605.82
Repairs 1172.52
Insurance 337.00
Fuel 2793.60
OK £560 of that £1172.52 Repairs bill is the winter tyres that I
don't need to stay legal. That little lot gives a running cost of
£5270.94. Car Tax at £215 is not worth worrying about.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Bill
Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> writes
>Car Tax at �215 is not worth worrying about.
I agree, but the �215 on the Omega only happened after an outcry about
older vehicles, and it's the direction of taxation that is worrying me.
Add the green brigade, a huge tax hole and who is the easy target?
FWIW, my annual mileage is all over the place. I'm retired, but get
called on a lot to be the main family taxi. This involves lots of tiny
local journeys, plus sudden (10 minute notice!) longer dashes which
often involve 200 or 400 mile round trips, and can often be needed 2 to
4 times a week..
I'm the only family driver, so one or other car sits in the path. I need
the Disco, it would have been nice to get the other car to be something
like a Nissan Note, which was the only small car I felt comfortable in
the front and back seats. Why do the bodies all slope in so much? And
why on earth design the Note with a wheel well smaller than the wheels?
A Disco plus a V6 saloon doesn't really feel like a good combination.
The Omega was used for business, and I've now retired, so it's hopeless
for short journeys on "full choke". About 17 to 20 mpg. The auto Disco
does 25 to 30 mpg (had a mild celebration when we got 31 on one
tankful), so I have become convinced that a diesel may be better for
lots of short journeys, as well as for the longer runs. This runs across
the general advice about low mileage users being better with petrol. It
also means the same fuel is used in both cars and the boat. Tax and
insurance are the fixed costs, and I need to minimise them. If I don't
do many miles for one reason or another (eg illness), I don't get fuel
and repair bills.
This has turned into a bit of a quagmire for me, and auto diesels from
dealers that I trust are somewhat rare. Hence the original question
about DSG gearboxes. I believe the "Superb" can't have a rear wiper
either. That's another thing, like the spare wheel, that's now pretty
essential.
I can drone on forever like this. Sorry.
--
Bill
Douglas Payne
> In message <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
> Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> writes
>> Car Tax at �215 is not worth worrying about.
>
> called on a lot to be the main family taxi. This involves lots of tiny
> local journeys, plus sudden (10 minute notice!) longer dashes which
> often involve 200 or 400 mile round trips, and can often be needed 2 to
> 4 times a week..
>
> I'm the only family driver, so one or other car sits in the path. I need
> the Disco, it would have been nice to get the other car to be something
> like a Nissan Note, which was the only small car I felt comfortable in
> the front and back seats. Why do the bodies all slope in so much? And
> why on earth design the Note with a wheel well smaller than the wheels?
> A Disco plus a V6 saloon doesn't really feel like a good combination.
>
> dealers that I trust are somewhat rare. Hence the original question
> about DSG gearboxes. I believe the "Superb" can't have a rear wiper
> either. That's another thing, like the spare wheel, that's now pretty
> essential.
>
> I can drone on forever like this. Sorry.
I've never tried a DSG but I would suggest that you do to see if its a
problem in your driveway or wherever.
Why is a non full-size spare a problem? It's nice to have but I've got
an MX-5 and the ordinary roadwheels won't fit in the boot at all. There
is a space saver spare, which limits you to about 50mph and it's no good
if you get a puncture and have a passenger but it's never been a problem
yet.
Does your Omega have rear wash wipe? Saloons generally don't. The
saloons I've had like a Carlton and a Passat didn't have it because the
aerodynamics meant that road crap didn't get deposited on the rear
windscreen. I am pretty certain that a Superb estate will have it, a
quick google for pictures of one suggests that it does.
--
Douglas
Dave Liquorice
> And why on earth design the Note with a wheel well smaller than the
> wheels?
Weight and space. Though F knows what you do with the real rim/tyre
if you get a flat.
> I believe the "Superb" can't have a rear wiper either.
Only a problem if the aerodynamics of the car dump road muck on the
rear window. Broadly speaking blunt backed things like hatches or
estates get mucky rear windows saloons with proper boots don't.
--
Cheers
Dave.
SpamTrapSeeSig
<hugh@[127.0.0.1]> writes
>>Does anyone have any fact-based opinions on these? Does having 2
>>clutches and 2 gearboxes in there make them twice or half as likely to
>>fail? These gearboxes seem to mainly come attached to dual-mass flywheels.
>>I read that gearbox repair costs are �1000, �3500 or cheap because the
>>clutches can possibly be replaced separately, but everything I've read
>>seems to be based on guesswork or hearsay.
>>.
>>Anyone have any fact-based views? I seem to remember from my Ford
>>Prefect days that ordinary clutches had to be replaced several times
>>in the life of the car.
[caution: rant follows!]
I have a VAG dual-mass flywheel gearbox on our 02 people-carrier
(Alhambra), bought "s/h" from a main dealer with <3k miles on it (it was
their demonstrator vehicle). It has the 'standard' 1900TDI engine of the
period, which itself is nice, however the flywheel seems to be its
Achilles' heel.
The flywheel failed one month out of warranty. The dealer told me VAG
would not contribute a penny, and, having been verbally quoted around
�1200 by them, I ended up at a clutch specialist, having it done for
what IIRC was still �800+ (and an awkward two days off the road).
The specialist had to cut it off, because the failure mode jams the two
parts together so that you can't get a spanner to the relevant bolts,
however the replacement was so much in demand it was a standard OEM part
and in ready supply. When I went to get it, he commented, "They all do
that, and the taxis round here book them in before the warranty
expires!" They knew the system as they sometimes did in-warranty
repairs, farmed out when the dealerships were full.
Technically it failed in-warranty, as the trip to the dealer was made
when my wife finally had too much difficulty driving it and complained
to me - I'd have realised much earlier that something was wrong, but she
has no 'feel' for mechanics. Also, not having encountered dual-mass
flywheels before (I've never owned a Porsche!), I had no idea the
problem was that, nor how expensive it could be, nor how dodgy the
history of the things was (there are urban myths of bits of the earliest
ones exiting Porsche bodywork sideways under load, etc.). If someone had
mentioned the flywheel design at any point in the sales process, I'd
have looked it up and then walked away from the deal.
I still find it incredible that VAG didn't know it was a class problem.
It's not the only issue on the vehicle that's purely down to quality
issues - we've never had a consistently functioning aircon either, as
VAG can't produce reliable aluminium welds (but after trying once out of
warranty, that's simply too expensive to be worth trying to repair
again). And the electric wing mirror 'design' is an expensive joke. I
could do better with Meccano. They are stupidly expensive, and
irreparable by normal means. Likewise the rear lamp clusters.
I will never, ever, touch VAG products again, unless someone convinces
me that their designs, build quality and service have improved. And that
will take some doing.
No doubt everyone else's mileage varies.
Incidentally, assuming the scrappage scheme's secondary objective was to
'green' the vehicles on the road, why are we being encouraged to buy
designed-for-obsolescence products that fail/wear out after a short
while, rather than vehicles like Defenders, which last indefinitely?
Isn't the use of manufacturing resources taken into account? And, if
it's only economic stimulus, why is it principally benefiting Korean
manufacturers and importers rather than British car plants? Surely
that's hurting our national debt, rather than helping it?
Oh, I forgot: it's been set up by politicians...
Regards,
S.
[I like to think of myself as not yet old enough to be 'Grumpy', but I
may be wrong.]
--
SimonM
----- TubeWiz.com -----
Video making/uploading that's easy to use & fun to share
Try it today! (now with DFace blurring)
Bill
<dou...@cheerful.com> writes
>Why is a non full-size spare a problem? It's nice to have but I've got
>an MX-5 and the ordinary roadwheels won't fit in the boot at all.
>There is a space saver spare, which limits you to about 50mph and it's
>no good if you get a puncture and have a passenger but it's never been
>a problem yet.
I regularly visit a boat storage and repair area down a long unmade
road, huge potholes and metal fastenings aplenty. I also have to bump up
and down onto various kerbs so that the person who is too infirm to
climb into the Disco can get in. I've had 3 occasions with the Omega in
the last 6 years where I've had to change a wheel, and no matter what
they say, I really don't feel safe driving a car any distance with 3
wheels one size and one smaller diameter. And as Dave L says, where do
you put the wheel you take off?
>
>Does your Omega have rear wash wipe? Saloons generally don't. The
>saloons I've had like a Carlton and a Passat didn't have it because the
>aerodynamics meant that road crap didn't get deposited on the rear
>windscreen. I am pretty certain that a Superb estate will have it, a
>quick google for pictures of one suggests that it does.
The Superb Estate is too new for me to be able to afford. My Omegas have
all been estates. Maybe it's not a problem with a hatchback. Obviously
my test drive will have to be full lock, backwards, uphill, in the rain.
:-)
--
Bill
Bill
<no-...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>I will never, ever, touch VAG products again, unless someone convinces
>me that their designs, build quality and service have improved. And
>that will take some doing.
That is my attitude to Vauxhall. In my case, it's the complexity of the
thing and the amount of cabling and number of possibly dodgy connectors,
but especially the cost of parts.
The Carlton was straightforward, part galvanised and, when I did it
myself, simple to understand and maintain. It also took an 8x4 sheet of
ply in the back, which is why I stuck to Omegas. But now I have an
unreliable car from a company that's for sale one day then not the next
with electronics that the main agent's diagnostics can't seem to
diagnose.
My personal diagnoser points to a component that should cost a few
pounds, but is only sold in a larger component costing hundreds. Main
agent seemed to be just changing bits at random and high cost. It may be
greener than the older versions, but when the agent says they won't go
on unless I spend �1700 on the next repair, any green concepts and I
disappear over the horizon.
I don't worry about aircon although that's a separate complaint with the
Omega and its facelifted aerodynamics that hit you with sub audible
pressure waves when you open any window at reasonable speed, but I
really appreciate the rant..
--
Bill
Bob Hobden
"Bill" wrote ...
Bob Hobden
writes
>>If you want a huge inside car then look no further than a Skoda Superb,
>>even comes in cavernous Estate now. I know it's a crap name but don't
>>knock it until you have seen/tried one.
>
> The dealer has got 2 DSG ones, one of which is in my price range. I've
> been holding off because they are both V6 diesels and are in a car tax
> bracket that is on an upward slope. I was also worried that the mpg
> would not be as good.
> I simply don't trust the politicians and the tax grab they will have to
> make to make us pay for their and the banks' incompetence.
> The big/little Nissan is low tax and dropping, the Octavia is just about
> car tax affordable and only on a small upward trajectory.
I've read that the normal 2 litre TDi 170 SE "Superb" is excellent.
hugh
supplier of liability. The warranty is a voluntary offering by the
supplier and does not affect your legal rights under the sale of goods
act. You could go to the small claims court which costs next to nothing
even if you lose and argue that a flywheel, which is not a serviceable
item should last the life time of the car and if it fails in 12 months t
is obviously not of suitable quality. If you have evidence that this is
a class failure then that would only strengthen your argument. Frpm what
I've read on other groups dual mass flywheels are not just a problem on
VAG cars (and TD5s) they fail on several other makes, which is not
surprising given the number of joint ventures around in the field of
engines.
<snip>
>
>Regards,
>
>S.
>
>[I like to think of myself as not yet old enough to be 'Grumpy', but I
>may be wrong.]
--
SpamTrapSeeSig
<hugh@[127.0.0.1]> writes
>The fact that it's out of warranty doesn't automatically relieve the
>supplier of liability. The warranty is a voluntary offering by the
>supplier and does not affect your legal rights under the sale of goods
>act. You could go to the small claims court which costs next to nothing
>even if you lose and argue that a flywheel, which is not a serviceable
>item should last the life time of the car and if it fails in 12 months
>t is obviously not of suitable quality.
Indeed so.
Perhaps I should have. But, in the absence of time and resources to do
this I elected to pass on it. I've simply made a mental note to be very
cautious about VAG products in future.
>If you have evidence that this is a class failure then that would only
>strengthen your argument.
I don't: the repairers do/did, and that's the problem.
They have a far stronger vested interest in staying sweet with their
major manufacturers, even if they're not agents. So it's reasonable for
an indy repairer to express sympathy, but not offer help in that
situation, because of the risk of being blackballed by the agents from
whom he gets referrals (probably) and some specialist parts. They have
the power to make life very difficult for anyone in the trade prepared
to stand up in court against sharp practice.
It ought to be an area where Trading Standards can do the investigation,
but they're completely overworked nowadays.
> Frpm what I've read on other groups dual mass flywheels are not just a
>problem on VAG cars (and TD5s) they fail on several other makes, which
>is not surprising given the number of joint ventures around in the
>field of engines.
So it seems. The other issue is that, whilst customer expectation is
that a flywheel is of indefinite life, the trade know it isn't (as do I,
now!), and operate the spares/repair channel accordingly. That's also
where the bulk of their profit comes from. So I'd stand up in court and
say, "When I was buying the car, nobody mentioned these flywheels
break/wear out!", and they'd put up a motoring expert of some sort, to
say, "But _everyone_ knows they need to be replaced from time to time."
As a general point, what would stuff the manufacturers concerned (and
that's not necessarily VAG, as you point out) would be getting MTBF
numbers out of them under a court order or something. It's a good guess
that the worst offenders have a very good idea of how reliable these
things are, and data to prove it.
But now I'm straying into fantasyland...
Regards,
S.
hugh
<no-...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
The judge would most likely be a car owner, which would help you. Also
depends whether the judge likes the look of your face or not - and in my
case - not.
gordon
to fail expensively and often. My Toyota Surf had one that failed, and
was replaced by a much cheaper solid flywheel. I've never been able to
notice any difference in noise, vibration or anything else.
I'm sticking to the simple stuff in future, at least when the clutch
arm went on the 90 it was only about £15 for a new one, and 30 seconds
to replace it. We won't talk about the hours spent actually getting at
it, but at least I could do it myself, unlike the replacement flywheel
on the Surf. The man said he had to remove the front diff in order to
tilt the engine to get the gearboxes out!
Gordon
80,86,90
Dave Baxter
@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, gb...@drytecltd.com says...
>
> FWIW I've heard nothing good about dual mass flywheels, they all seem
> to fail expensively and often. My Toyota Surf had one that failed, and
> was replaced by a much cheaper solid flywheel. I've never been able to
> notice any difference in noise, vibration or anything else.
>
> I'm sticking to the simple stuff in future, at least when the clutch
> to replace it. We won't talk about the hours spent actually getting at
> it, but at least I could do it myself, unlike the replacement flywheel
> on the Surf. The man said he had to remove the front diff in order to
> tilt the engine to get the gearboxes out!
>
> Gordon
> 80,86,90
They are known problems on Transit's and heavies too.
Dave B.
hugh
Baxter <sp...@goes.nowhere.com> writes
>In article <f9c0756b-8aaa-4e57-8f33-d0c8cee916d4
>@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, gb...@drytecltd.com says...
>>
>> FWIW I've heard nothing good about dual mass flywheels, they all seem
>> to fail expensively and often. My Toyota Surf had one that failed, and
>> was replaced by a much cheaper solid flywheel. I've never been able to
>> notice any difference in noise, vibration or anything else.
>>
>> I'm sticking to the simple stuff in future, at least when the clutch
>> to replace it. We won't talk about the hours spent actually getting at
>> it, but at least I could do it myself, unlike the replacement flywheel
>> on the Surf. The man said he had to remove the front diff in order to
>> tilt the engine to get the gearboxes out!
>>
>> Gordon
>> 80,86,90
>
>They are known problems on Transit's and heavies too.
>
>Dave B.
>
Jon
hand.
I'd hate to own a car with a DMFW, I've seen em melt the nylon parts, crack,
break up, seize up, I've seen an internal spring on a VW DMFW wear its way
through the side of the flywheel and destroy the gearbox bellhousing by
machining a groove round the inside.
I suspect they aren't up to the punishment a modern driver gives them, to me
they seem too lazy allways riding the clutch instead of using the handbrake.
DMFWs can't dissipate the heat of abuse like a solid flywheel.
--
Jon
Dave Liquorice
> I suspect they aren't up to the punishment a modern driver gives them,
> to me they seem too lazy allways riding the clutch instead of using the
> handbrake.
Or unable to do low speed maneuvering without the engine doing 3,000
rpm.
--
Cheers
Dave.
SpamTrapSeeSig
Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> writes
It's a good point. When I switch from the Landy to the Alhambra (DMFW),
I usually stall it at least once. Even though it's nominally got far
higher power output, it's got nothing at low revs, and the gentle
manoeuvres I do in the Landy, for parking etc, just aren't possible
without a lot of revving in the other thing.
If you rev it, it's fun to drive, but that's the only driving style that
works. You can't be laid back, and my usual thing of crawling up to the
end of the queue on red lights (so I never actually stop moving), is
really hard to achieve as the Alhambra doesn't like the revs set really
low and just won't pull, despite being much lighter weight.
It's 1.9 litre versus 2.5, both having turbos, standard factory
intercoolers and four cylinders.
Jon
"Dave Liquorice" <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote in message
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk...
Oh yea, I forgot, that one always makes me cringe.
--
Jon
Jon
"SpamTrapSeeSig" <no-...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:OeJyY7MO...@bristolitcompany.com...
> In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
> Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> writes
>>On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:25:29 -0000, Jon wrote:
>>
>>> I suspect they aren't up to the punishment a modern driver gives them,
>>> to me they seem too lazy allways riding the clutch instead of using the
>>> handbrake.
>>
>>Or unable to do low speed maneuvering without the engine doing 3,000
>>rpm.
>
> It's a good point. When I switch from the Landy to the Alhambra (DMFW), I
> usually stall it at least once. Even though it's nominally got far higher
> power output, it's got nothing at low revs, and the gentle manoeuvres I do
> in the Landy, for parking etc, just aren't possible without a lot of
> revving in the other thing.
>
> If you rev it, it's fun to drive, but that's the only driving style that
> works. You can't be laid back, and my usual thing of crawling up to the
> end of the queue on red lights (so I never actually stop moving), is
> really hard to achieve as the Alhambra doesn't like the revs set really
> low and just won't pull, despite being much lighter weight.
>
> It's 1.9 litre versus 2.5, both having turbos, standard factory
> intercoolers and four cylinders.
Bloody mondeo tdci I always seem to stall them.
--
Jon
Nige
Shite engines.
--
Nige,
BMW K1200S
Honda Transalp XL600V
Yamaha R1
Range Rover Vogue
Bill
<de...@btinternet.com> writes
So, here I am the OP. Tomorrow I almost certainly have to make the final
decision after going round and round in circles and asking question
after question. Another major factor was the count of available pennies.
My auto Disco 300tdi is fine but I want to spread the load by getting
something reliable in car shape. We seem to have descended into a
straight choice between an 07 Focus estate 1.8tdci, or, with a real
stretch of the budget, an 06 Octavia 1.9 estate. Both manual. Both have
DMF's and whatever we get will have to survive getting in and out of our
path, which involves a 90deg standing start turn backwards uphill and
almost blindly across the pavement.
Both from main agents, with 1 year warranty.
I've driven the Skoda and like it, drove a Focus hatch which felt OK.
Can't yet drive the Focus estate because the dealer is having to replace
the flywheel. It's up in the air and I've only been able to inspect the
underneath
The parameters are.......
1. Have to replace the auto Omega before it collapses completely, so
within the next day or two.
2. Want diesel
3. SWMBO wants a reasonably new car.
4. Must have a proper spare wheel.
5. Must have space for long legged driver plus non-nimble person in back
seat behind driver (this rules out most small cars).
6 Must be low car tax. I'm paranoid about the potential combination of
incompetent political parasites and fanatical, utterly misguided greens.
Has anyone any views about which would be the least bad of the above 2
to go for to get something that will be reliable and maintainable for
about a 10 year life? Is the 1.9 TDI PD VAG diesel simpler than the 1.8
tdci Ford? Are both drive trains as bad?
It's so, so, so depressing.
--
Bill
G8KBV
says...
Interesting.
I have a Mazda6 TS2 estate as a works car, same engine 2.2 Eurosomething
160bhp turbo etc as the current Mondao's. Low speed manouvering etc at
idle, wonderfuly easy, even up slopes and kerbs etc. In some ways
easier than the LR109/110 hybrid (200TDi), there again, the car is a
fraction the weight of the LR...
Dave B.
gordon
particular situation re. the drive are these blooming electric
handbrakes. Talk about making things complicated just for the sake of
it.
Gordon, again.
Bill
<17cc8f05-ed90-4bde...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
gordon <gb...@drytecltd.com> writes
Well, after asking everywhere I could find on the 'net, I've gone for a
manual Skoda 1.9tdi to complement the auto Disco. I don't think there's
any electric in the handbrake. Part of the decision was based on reading
that there is an official manufacturer's single mass flywheel available,
and a clear statement from the dealer that the DMF is covered by the
warranty.
I couldn't find a suitable DSG auto version at a price I could afford
and with sufficient warranty to make it a justifiable gamble.
It judders when reversing out of the 90 degree uphill path with 2
passengers aboard unless I rev more than I think good and slip the
clutch. I have this mad horror that one day I'll accelerate to get a
smooth clutch action in reverse and the turbo will kick in.......
Still, it looks like a substantial hedge across the road.
Also on the motorway in top I trundle along at 60 fine, slow down to
40mph/1500rpm then accelerate in top and it judders frighteningly.
Change down and it's OK.
But I'm getting better with it and even the family members, frightened
by the concept of me in a manual car after all these years, seem to
think I'm causing less whiplash.
--
Bill
Richard Savage
> In article <Wl08zfLmSXGLF...@raefell.demon.co.uk>, hugh
> <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> writes
>
> >>Does anyone have any fact-based opinions on these? Does having 2
> >>clutches and 2 gearboxes in there make them twice or half as likely to
> >>fail? These gearboxes seem to mainly come attached to dual-mass flywheels.
> >>I read that gearbox repair costs are £1000, £3500 or cheap because the
> >>clutches can possibly be replaced separately, but everything I've read
> >>seems to be based on guesswork or hearsay.
> >>.
> >>Anyone have any fact-based views? I seem to remember from my Ford
> >>Prefect days that ordinary clutches had to be replaced several times
> >>in the life of the car.
>
> [caution: rant follows!]
>
>
> I will never, ever, touch VAG products again, unless someone convinces
> me that their designs, build quality and service have improved. And that
> will take some doing.
>
>
> SimonM
> ----- TubeWiz.com -----
> Video making/uploading that's easy to use & fun to share
> Try it today! (now with DFace blurring)
FWIW my father in law is about to sue VAG over the miss-selling of a
new Golf. He is unable to use his left arm effectively and has been
driving automatics for many years. He was unable to test the Golf
when choosing it as (a) he was recovering from a stroke and (b) the
dealer did not have one with an auto box. Anyway, he bought one
without discovering or being told about 'hill assist'. This, IMHO, is
the most inappropriate name I have ever encountered. As far as we can
discover, once 'D' is engaged you can accelerate for approx. 2 seconds
before all power is cut and the car freewheels even though it is in
drive. His drive slopes up to the road at about 40deg. Since August
he has managed about 60 miles in the Golf! Driving it in traffic on
a hill or parking on a slope are an absolute nightmare. Has anyone
else driven one of these dreadful gearboxes?
Richard
Tim..
FWIW my father in law is about to sue VAG over the miss-selling of a
new Golf. He is unable to use his left arm effectively and has been
driving automatics for many years. He was unable to test the Golf
when choosing it as (a) he was recovering from a stroke and (b) the
dealer did not have one with an auto box. Anyway, he bought one
without discovering or being told about 'hill assist'. This, IMHO, is
the most inappropriate name I have ever encountered. As far as we can
discover, once 'D' is engaged you can accelerate for approx. 2 seconds
before all power is cut and the car freewheels even though it is in
drive. His drive slopes up to the road at about 40deg. Since August
he has managed about 60 miles in the Golf! Driving it in traffic on
a hill or parking on a slope are an absolute nightmare. Has anyone
else driven one of these dreadful gearboxes?
Umm either there is a fault, or your F_I_L is not driving it correctly?
The Hill assist systems work really well, and easily- I have one in my BMW
(albeit with manual box).
Normal method of use is you hold the brake down for 2 seconds whist in Drive
(or in gear, clutch depressed), then move to the gas pedal giving it afew
revs taking up the 'slack', and after about 1.5 seconds the brakes
automatically release gradually allowing you to move off without rolling in
the other direction. You can use it in forwards or reverse.
Simples.
Tim.
Richard Savage
>
> Umm either there is a fault, or your F_I_L is not driving it correctly?
>
> The Hill assist systems work really well, and easily- I have one in my BMW
> (albeit with manual box).
>
> Normal method of use is you hold the brake down for 2 seconds whist in Drive
> (or in gear, clutch depressed), then move to the gas pedal giving it afew
> revs taking up the 'slack', and after about 1.5 seconds the brakes
> automatically release gradually allowing you to move off without rolling in
> the other direction. You can use it in forwards or reverse.
>
> Simples.
>
> Tim.
Tim, does the BM engine die if you accelerate against the footbrake in
D? How do you move slowly, i.e at creeping speed, uphill?
We suspect a design fault with the Golf. The sequence of selecting D
(with footbrake depressed) follow by releasing the parking brake,
followed by moving foot from footbrake to throttle allows the car to
freewheel backwards down his drive (when parked tail down). It's
difficult to describe properly but here goes: If I try to to get if
off the drive by using both feet - something I do with my RR with a
'tired' torque converter - I find that the engine revs are cut if they
are raised above about 1100 when the footbrake is held and no further
pressure on the throttle has any effect and the car rolls. It's
almost as though the revs are being cut to protect the torque
converter from overheating.
Richard
Badger
"Richard Savage" <r...@nildram.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8229f94c-7372-4dad...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Peugeot diesels (well, most of the newer electronically-controlled ones
anyway) do this as well. Brake whilst on the throttle and they cut engine
power. Pain in the ass for getting heat into a diesel to get it through a
pathetically useless emissions test....!
Badger.
Richard Savage
>
> Peugeot diesels (well, most of the newer electronically-controlled ones
> anyway) do this as well. Brake whilst on the throttle and they cut engine
> power. Pain in the ass for getting heat into a diesel to get it through a
> pathetically useless emissions test....!
> Badger.
So, how do you move them on a slope or on a slope in traffic?
Richard
Badger
By driving normally, the way you were taught, ustilising clutch, parking
brake, footbrake and throttle in one seamless movement, lol.
Seriously, I think you can feather in a certain ammount of throttle with the
brake applied before the computer starts reducing engine power, certainly
enough to make an auto pull away on a hill either backwards or forwards. As
soon as you have the load on the throttle, you shouldn't be using the brake
anyway, you should use throttle control (and clutch control on a manual).
Badger.
Richard Savage
>
> > So, how do you move them on a slope or on a slope in traffic?
>
> By driving normally, the way you were taught, ustilising clutch, parking
> brake, footbrake and throttle in one seamless movement, lol.
> Seriously, I think you can feather in a certain ammount of throttle with the
> brake applied before the computer starts reducing engine power, certainly
> enough to make an auto pull away on a hill either backwards or forwards. As
> soon as you have the load on the throttle, you shouldn't be using the brake
> anyway, you should use throttle control (and clutch control on a manual).
> Badger.
Heh heh.
I can _just about_ balance the throttle/brake combo to enable the Golf
to crawl up the drive. Neither parent's in law have sufficient
delicacy of movement to enable them to move it. AND I thought that
two-foot operation was frowned upon by them as are supposed to know
what they are talking about. Something to do with confusion when
swapping twixt manual and auto IIRC.
Seriously (also!) see my contribution on 23 Dec 20:26 as to how the
Golf behaves. There is _no_ 'grip' (drive without actual vehicle
movement) from the torque converter with the engine at idle, there is
only drive between slightly above idle and about 1,100 rpm. If the
vehicle isn't moving by the time the revs reach 1,100 the revs are cut
and the vehicle rolls backwards. Scary!
Richard
hugh
<61784bf5-365c-4dc7...@22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com>,
Richard Savage <r...@nildram.co.uk> writes
>AND I thought that
>two-foot operation was frowned upon by them as are supposed to know
>what they are talking about.
With "normal" autos yes.
Hill start is much as a manual but easier. Combination of pressing
accelerator sufficient to produce forward pressure as you release the
handbrake.
--
hugh
Defender V8 auto
Richard Savage
Hi Hugh
Agree with the above - and I have no trouble with 'normal' i.e. without
stupid and necessary technical interference auto boxes. I can just
about move the *******ing Golf off the drive despite the aggravation of
'hill assist' - a misnomer if ever there was one. Unfortunately, my
parent's in law do not have the finesse (due to age not stupidity) to
balance the revs against the brakes. Neither can use a handbrake with
any subtlety - it's either on or off - due to shoulder and elbow
injuries. By comparison with the Golf they have a SAAB 95 Auto which
they drive with great gusto.
No one seems to be picking up on the way that the Golf cuts the revs
when they rise above about 1,100 when the vehicle is stationary.
Richard
hugh
<no...@nowhere.net> writes
myself. It's mentioned in the handbook of my Boxer based motorcaravan
but I haven't got it fitted. AIUI it holds on the brakes to prevent the
vehicle rolling backwards for a specified number of seconds after the
handbrake is released. As soon as you press the accelerator presumably
it should disengage. I'm not sure if or how it works trying to reverse
up a hill.
I tried a little experiment on my normal auto this morning. If you apply
the brakes when stationary and press the accelerator then the revs will
only rise to about 1200 - there's a V8 on the front end so I didn't
press too far. If you go above that then something's got to give so it
doesn't seem unreasonable for your Golf not to go above 1100. But with
hill start assist at that point the brakes should come off and the revs
should rise as required. I can only suggest you go back to VW and ask
them to demonstrate how it is supposed to be used. Maybe they haven't
thought it through on an auto.
Sorry not to be of much help.
Richard Savage
>
> Probably because no one has any experience of this facility, including
> myself. It's mentioned in the handbook of my Boxer based motorcaravan
> but I haven't got it fitted. AIUI it holds on the brakes to prevent the
> vehicle rolling backwards for a specified number of seconds after the
> handbrake is released. As soon as you press the accelerator presumably
> it should disengage. I'm not sure if or how it works trying to reverse
> up a hill.
>
> I tried a little experiment on my normal auto this morning. If you apply
> the brakes when stationary and press the accelerator then the revs will
> only rise to about 1200 - there's a V8 on the front end so I didn't
> press too far. If you go above that then something's got to give so it
> doesn't seem unreasonable for your Golf not to go above 1100. But with
> hill start assist at that point the brakes should come off and the revs
> should rise as required. I can only suggest you go back to VW and ask
> them to demonstrate how it is supposed to be used. Maybe they haven't
> thought it through on an auto.
>
> Sorry not to be of much help.
>
> --
> hugh
> It may be more complicated but is it better?
Hi Hugh
Regarding your auto experiment; there is, I presume, nothing to stop
you flooring the throttle (when in Drive) and depressing the
footbrake for all you are worth until the torque converter or UJ
fails, is there? This is what I think the hill assist on the Golf is
trying to prevent. However, it just doesn't seem to deliver.
Regarding going back to VW; the dealer sent one of the workshop staff
to visit the P-I-L to replace the number plates because the wrong pair
had been fitted. He couldn't get the car off the drive either without
major faffing. And this was driving up it (they park the cars tail-
down on their drive)
Moral: don't buy a VW Golf with hill assist without testing it to make
sure that it does what you expect.
<sigh>
Richard
hugh
<763af176-87ed-406f...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Richard Savage <alt...@excite.com> writes
Only my wallet !!
In low ratio it the torque converter would win.
>This is what I think the hill assist on the Golf is
>trying to prevent. However, it just doesn't seem to deliver.
>Regarding going back to VW; the dealer sent one of the workshop staff
>to visit the P-I-L to replace the number plates because the wrong pair
>had been fitted. He couldn't get the car off the drive either without
>major faffing. And this was driving up it (they park the cars tail-
>down on their drive)
>
>Moral: don't buy a VW Golf with hill assist without testing it to make
>sure that it does what you expect.
>
><sigh>
>
>Richard
I've always thought hill start assist would be a waste of time on an
auto.
Given the low proportion of people who buy autos I suspect there are not
many people out there with your experience. So we can't really say
whether it is a fault specific to your vehicle or whether it is an
inherent design fault
I can only suggest you are now in the area of fitness for purpose or
whatever the correct term is and approach it from that angle - say to VW
(in writing) fix it or have it back.
Richard Savage
> I can only suggest you are now in the area of fitness for purpose or
> whatever the correct term is and approach it from that angle - say to VW
> (in writing) fix it or have it back.
> --
> hugh
> It may be more complicated but is it better?
Evening Hugh
My father-in-law has started down the rejection route. VW offered him
£17K for the vehicle. Not bad I suppose when you consider that he
bought it in September for £23 or £24K and it now has 60 - yes Six
Zero - miles on the clock. His next step is to sue them.
Fortunately both he and my wife are solicitors ;-). Having said
that, things are on hold while he has his fractured arm and hip dealt
with followed by his coronary bypass. Cars seem very unimportant with
all that on his plate.
Will post something to the group if/when it's resolved.
Richard
hugh
<ead41357-fa9b-48c6...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Richard Savage <alt...@excite.com> writes
Good luck
Richard Savage
>
> >Richard
>
> Ask them to do it for the rest of us.
>
> Good luck
> --
> hugh
> It may be more complicated but is it better?
Thanks Hugh
Miraculously, the fractured parts of his femur have been screwed
together today under local (!) anaesthetic. SWMBO stated tonight -
when she surfaced from her post-relief-of-stress-migraine - that it is
the first time since before Christmas that she has stopped worrying
constantly.
Cheers
Richard