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"MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT"
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Caligari
Sep 3, 2012, 12:50:28 AM9/3/12
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From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>>>>>>>>>>
MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
So. Is it a cult? Technically, no. But, if it walks like cult, talks
like a cult, and preys on people like a cult, it just might be
Landmark.
Everyone told me not to go.
"It's a cult, Sarah. Don't get sucked in!"
“The Landmark Forum? It’s like 'Scientology Light.' Run the opposite
direction!”
I'd just begun a trial separation from my husband. I was heartbroken,
confused and vulnerable. That’s when my good friend, Ed, a
fantastically positive, well-put-together human being, told me
emphatically that The Landmark Forum had changed his life and invited
me to a free seminar.
Eager, I went online to check it out, and began to worry.
On the net, opinions and experiences ran the gamut. There were
warnings against Landmark, video testimonials about how-Landmark-saved-
my-life, letters of both support and condemnation from psychologists,
priests and university scholars.
I had other friends who all but begged me not to go, citing it as
destructive and dangerous. Now, I was intrigued. Such a range of
reactions and emotions! I had to find out for myself.
Still, something didn’t feel right. On the day of the free seminar, I
had a sinking feeling deep in my gut. Don’t go. But I'd told Ed I
would see him there and felt bad bowing out. I explained my conflicted
feelings to another friend who advised me to “Go, just don’t part with
any money.”
Huh. Why would I part with any money?
I left late (subconsciously on purpose? Hoping it would be half over
when I arrived?) and drove with trepidation to the location, a crappy
hotel by the airport.
There, I was greeted by what seemed like an endless supply of grinning
volunteers. Each name-tagged little helper gushed how happy they were
to see me. After tacking a nametag across my chest, they ushered me
into a dank, depressing ballroom. Heavy draperies kept out the light
of a gorgeous California day.
On stage, people stood in line to give witness to how Landmark changed
their lives. I thought it would be over -- I was almost an hour late
-- but it was nowhere near over, and would go on another two hours.
Somehow, despite my skepticism, halfway through I ended up sobbing my
marital sadness to the two Landmark women with whom I was put into a
small group. And by the end of the afternoon, I had written a check
for $300 (merely a deposit) and registered for the course.
I know.
By the time I got back on the highway, I regretted it. What the hell
was that? I asked myself aloud. I called to get a refund.
At first, the Landmark rep on the phone acted as if a refund was no
problem. Great, I thought. That was easy. But when she smoothly
launched into a series of circular questions, I didn’t have a chance.
“Mmm, this refund, let’s talk about this. Why do you feel this way?
What could you be resisting in your life? What if 'I want my money
back' is just a story you are telling yourself?”
Hm. Gosh. Never thought if it that way.
And she seemed so nice. So caring. I said I’d think about it and hung
up.
Every single day for the next month, I was barraged with phone calls
and messages from Landmark. It was like having a collection agent who
also needed to buy crack from you. I had been willing to consider
doing the course, but now I was pissed.
The phone rang yet again. I saw the Landmark name (I had labeled it on
my phone as a warning to screen the call) and picked up. This time I
would give them a piece of my mind!
Of course, the Landmark rep, “Paul,” wasn’t having any of it.
“Sarah, can you honestly say you are where you want to be in your
life?"
Uh, well.
“What is really going on here? What are you resisting?”
Apparently, “resisting,” as they labeled my decision to get my money
back, was proof of how much I needed their help. You know, the help I
needed to stop resisting THEM. Get it?
“I just want a refund,” I stumbled, somehow getting roped back into
another big ass, circular conversation. They’re really good at that.
After almost 20 minutes on the phone it was clear I wasn't getting my
deposit back. Paul “reframed” it for me: essentially I could lose the
$300 or pony up the additional $200 and just see what the fuss was all
about.
Even then, as I was agreeing to pay the balance, I could feel my heart
pounding, stuffing down a little voice that said, This isn’t right.
Don’t go.
“All righty!” Paul interrupted my inner monologue. "So the total on
your Visa will be…” he slowed down. “Oooh, Sarah,” I could hear him
inhale through his teeth, “It looks like since you registered last
summer, but didn’t complete the forum, we can’t honor your deposit.”
What?
“And, it looks like the price of the course has gone up since you
registered.”
"Seriously?" I balked.
“I hear you, Sarah, but I want you to be open to the possibilities
that lay ahead for you.”
I didn’t feel open to new possibilities. I felt taken advantage of,
swindled, even a little bullied. But bullied in a really nice way.
As the seminar weekend approached, the feeling in the pit of my
stomach returned. But I had spent the money. I was going. The schedule
was as follows: Friday 10am-Midnight, Saturday 10am-Midnight, Sunday
10am-Midnight.
The leader, a stern, non-nonsense woman I’ll call Chris, explained the
contract we must all agree to: no use of alcohol, drugs. No problem.
I agree.
They went on to reject the use of coffee, caffeine, painkillers like
Advil, and snacks. Coffee? Snacks? Tylenol?
Also, there would be very limited breaks. As in one meal break for the
13-hour day. I didn’t think this was a big deal until I’d been sitting
for four hours in a hot room in a stiff row of people in a very
uncomfortable chair. One person got up after about an hour, presumably
for the bathroom, and Chris made quick work of explaining all the
reasons this was not okay. The tone was set: You followed the
schedule; you did not veer from the group.
Later, after spotting a few travel mugs of coffee in the audience and
more unofficial bathroom breaks, Chris exploded.
“You can’t control yourselves? Geez, you’re like babies here whining
about going to the bathroom and having your snacks.” She mocked us in
a high-pitched voice. Then, she got very serious.
“You get up and take a break? Don’t blame me if come Sunday everyone
else 'gets it' and you don’t. I can’t guarantee the transformation
that will happen Sunday at 5pm unless you are here and present every
second.”
Within the first hour of the seminar we were pressured to take the
$800 “advanced course.” To push us along, the drones in the back of
the room came up and gave testimonials like “I was like you once!
Skeptical, unsure.”
I look around the room. Does anyone else see what’s going on here? A
few do -- we make eye contact and quickly look away before the drones
can see us connecting and possibly staging a rebellion.
Nametags: They were very strict about them. I mean hardcore. You had
to have your nametag on and in view at all times. They were collected
anytime you left the room. Presumably to keep tabs on who had returned
(or were late returning) and who had not. It was weird.
Also within the first few hours, we were “challenged” to “powerfully
enroll our friends and family in the possibilities Landmark is giving
you!” This would mean using the few and far between breaks we did have
to call our friends and “get complete” with them. Then we were
supposed to bring them Sunday night to our own “completion” where they
could hear about our transformative weekend (and pay their own $300
deposit).
One woman raised her hand.
She was handed a microphone, and was thus allowed to speak. “I’m
sorry,” she started, her voice wobbling in preliminary apology, “but
do we have to tell them about Landmark? All of this feels like a big
commercial for Landmark.”
By the time Chris was done with her, this young woman had shrunk about
two inches and said, “I guess I wasn’t seeing the possibilities,” she
smiled hopefully, “Thank you.”
Cheers and applause broke out. “Yes! Look at that, people! She just
grew tenfold!”
But, not everyone was buying it. A man raised his hand. I'd noticed
this man before because it seemed whenever I was sighing or looking
askance he was doing the same thing.
In a very reasonable, professional manner, he raised his hand and
said, “Excuse me. I’ve been here for a little over three hours now.
And the only thing I’ve heard is how I should sign up and pay for more
Landmark classes.”
A small wave of nods rippled across the room.
In a roller coaster two minutes, Chris lauded the man for his honesty,
encouraging others who felt this way to show themselves. Then she went
in for the kill, spinning it around so anyone who questioned the
program or its tactics was “resisting.”
The second day, the man expressed the same feeling. This time, the mic
was ripped out of his hand, campaign manager style, “We are not
discussing that right now!” Chris snapped
On the third day he was “asked” to leave.
All of those things were freaky, but none truly scared me until we go
to this rule:
NO WRITING.
This was when the little hairs on the back of my neck came to
attention. Writing, whether it’s journaling, taking notes, even just
having a pen in my hand, is how I process the world.
When I expressed my concern over this, I was used as an example of
someone who is clearly resisting the work by choosing not to follow
the rules. Others around me, who only moments before had echoed my
feelings, now clammed up. They wouldn’t even meet my gaze.
So, after we’d all been given our East German Stasi cards -- oops, I
mean our nametags -- we were reminded that if someone is doing
something they’re not supposed to (taking notes, taking unofficial
breaks), you say something. Hold them accountable.
Yes, we were asked to police our neighbors.
About15 minutes after this “reminder,” the woman next to me tapped me
hard on my arm. “Yes?” I looked up, assuming she wanted to borrow
something or ask for a piece of gum.
“No writing!” she said, and waved her finger back and forth in my
face.
I almost stabbed her with my Bic Roller Gel.
I nearly walked out so many times, usually during the abusive
interactions between the leader and whatever emotionally wracked
person onstage. These were serious emotional breakdowns being handled
in five-minute increments by this Landmark leader. Not a well-trained,
experienced therapist in a safe environment but an arrogant, would-be
dictator who egged on these breakdowns, gave them a quickie “tool” to
get over their childhood trauma, and moved right along to the next
person.
There were first-time revelations of childhood molestations, my-father-
murdered-my-mother divulgements, I-think-I’m-gay moments. The words
that best sum up Landmark’s catch-and-release handling of these
fragile situations are dangerous and irresponsible.
I’ve done self-help work. I’m an actor, for Christ’s sake!
Introspection and being alone on stage is what we do! So I asked
questions in response to “the work” and was struck down, humiliated
and branded “uncoachable.”
Chris mocked me, "Oh, you have questions? You’re questioning me? How
long have you been leading the Forum? Do you think I know a thing or
two more than you about it?” I could literally hear cackles from
various part of the audience. It was fucking Animal Farm in there.
It went on like this as I watched others get worked over. It was
abusive, demeaning. Yet, people kept coming back for more!
The only reasonable explanation is Stockholm Syndrome. You are trapped
like sardines in rows with random people, after hours without food or
daylight, put into a high-pressure emotional situation, and told the
only way out of the emotional basket-case-ness that they have
instigated, is for you to pay for and take more of their seminars.
(And to “powerfully enroll others to do the same.”)
Looking back, I can’t believe I stayed as long as I did. I suspect
some people stay out of curiosity, a wanting-to-get-your-moneys worth
feeling.
I might have stayed even longer but then I heard this: Everything in
your life is your fault, including your rape.
They were SUCH assholes to me onstage after I'd bared my soul, and
talked about everything from being raped to my husband never wanting
to have sex with me. The upshot was essentially, Guess what, bitch?
It's all your fault!
Streams of people came up to me after I got up to do "the
work" (translation: get emotionally eviscerated/abused in public).
"The way she talked to you up there made me sick."
"After witnessing that, I don't think I can come back for another
day."
"That was unconscionable."
Yet, they all stayed. Why? Like a crowd around a wagon back medicine
show, they were desperate to see this "transformation" they had been
promised (over and over again) all weekend. ("Don't leave! You are
this close to "getting" it.)
That was Saturday night. I could have just gone home and not returned
for the third day, but something in me woke up. That pit in my
stomach? It was on fire. And it wasn’t going to go quietly. I had to
make a statement.
As homework the night of Day 2, we were supposed to write a letter to
someone we’ve “been inauthentic with.”
I went home and wrote out three pages on a legal pad. I returned
bright and early Sunday morning, on time and sitting in my seat (lest
I be scolded) like all the other good little sheep.
When it was my turn, I went up to the microphone and began to read:
“Dear, Sarah -- I realize now I have been inauthentic with you." I
could feel sympathetic nods up and down from the crowd. I continued.
“When I first heard about Landmark Forum, I had this terrible feeling
in the pit of my stomach. An instinct. A sense of dread. I ignored my
inner voice. I let myself look past all the unethical business
practices, the high-pressure sales tactics, the abusive, emotional
manipulation --"
“-- Turn off her mic! Turn off her mic!” Chris shouted, her arms
raised arms up and down like a stiff Henny Penny, and the drones
scurried do her bidding.
A Mack truck couldn’t stop me. I didn’t need a microphone, just my own
authentic voice. The drones went berserk, buzzing around in the back,
bumping into each other over the sound equipment. Someone finally just
ripped the cord out of the wall.
Chris raced toward me. She tried to shuffle me offstage -- physically.
I calmly (maybe too calmly) told her not to touch me. The audience
gasped. Gasped! As if I had done something to HER! Wow, they were
goners.
I went on with my letter.
She interrupted, shouting, “What do you want? Do you want a refund?”
I said, "Hell, yes!" and then got the hell off stage.
Three people booed me. Yes, BOOED ME. Another three came to the back
of the room to shake my hand, clap me on the back, and tell me that I
had just articulated everything they were thinking. Soon enough,
though, the drones broke up the conversation.
“I have to ask you to stop this conversation because you are just
creating another 'racket,'" which is Landmark-speak for “a persistent
complaint with someone or something that leads you into a habitual way
of being, thinking, feeling, or acting.”
“See?” I said to the three would-be-defectors. You take issue with
something Landmarkian? You are labeled as having a “racket,”
“resisting,” or -- my personal favorite -- being “uncoachable.”
So. Is it a cult? Technically, no. But, if it walks like cult, talks
like a cult, and preys on people like a cult, it just might be
Landmark. If this is what people call “Scientology light,” I’d hate
the get anywhere near the real thing.
I have since discovered that a couple of my friends have actually done
the basic Landmark Forum. I still don’t understand quite how they
couldn’t see through all the mindfucking-disguised-as-enlightenment,
deceptive business practices, Stockholm Syndrome-y seminars or the
constant, hard-sells to get more involved.
That said, if they got something positive out of it, I am truly glad
for them. (And a little in awe.)
One of them asked me, hopefully, “But, Sarah, you must have learned
something from it?”
I thought for a moment. “Yes,” I said. “I learned that I should trust
my instincts.” Like the time my gut told me, "Sarah, run fast. It’s
totally a cult.”
<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>
MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
So. Is it a cult? Technically, no. But, if it walks like cult, talks
like a cult, and preys on people like a cult, it just might be
Landmark.
Everyone told me not to go.
"It's a cult, Sarah. Don't get sucked in!"
“The Landmark Forum? It’s like 'Scientology Light.' Run the opposite
direction!”
I'd just begun a trial separation from my husband. I was heartbroken,
confused and vulnerable. That’s when my good friend, Ed, a
fantastically positive, well-put-together human being, told me
emphatically that The Landmark Forum had changed his life and invited
me to a free seminar.
Eager, I went online to check it out, and began to worry.
On the net, opinions and experiences ran the gamut. There were
warnings against Landmark, video testimonials about how-Landmark-saved-
my-life, letters of both support and condemnation from psychologists,
priests and university scholars.
I had other friends who all but begged me not to go, citing it as
destructive and dangerous. Now, I was intrigued. Such a range of
reactions and emotions! I had to find out for myself.
Still, something didn’t feel right. On the day of the free seminar, I
had a sinking feeling deep in my gut. Don’t go. But I'd told Ed I
would see him there and felt bad bowing out. I explained my conflicted
feelings to another friend who advised me to “Go, just don’t part with
any money.”
Huh. Why would I part with any money?
I left late (subconsciously on purpose? Hoping it would be half over
when I arrived?) and drove with trepidation to the location, a crappy
hotel by the airport.
There, I was greeted by what seemed like an endless supply of grinning
volunteers. Each name-tagged little helper gushed how happy they were
to see me. After tacking a nametag across my chest, they ushered me
into a dank, depressing ballroom. Heavy draperies kept out the light
of a gorgeous California day.
On stage, people stood in line to give witness to how Landmark changed
their lives. I thought it would be over -- I was almost an hour late
-- but it was nowhere near over, and would go on another two hours.
Somehow, despite my skepticism, halfway through I ended up sobbing my
marital sadness to the two Landmark women with whom I was put into a
small group. And by the end of the afternoon, I had written a check
for $300 (merely a deposit) and registered for the course.
I know.
By the time I got back on the highway, I regretted it. What the hell
was that? I asked myself aloud. I called to get a refund.
At first, the Landmark rep on the phone acted as if a refund was no
problem. Great, I thought. That was easy. But when she smoothly
launched into a series of circular questions, I didn’t have a chance.
“Mmm, this refund, let’s talk about this. Why do you feel this way?
What could you be resisting in your life? What if 'I want my money
back' is just a story you are telling yourself?”
Hm. Gosh. Never thought if it that way.
And she seemed so nice. So caring. I said I’d think about it and hung
up.
Every single day for the next month, I was barraged with phone calls
and messages from Landmark. It was like having a collection agent who
also needed to buy crack from you. I had been willing to consider
doing the course, but now I was pissed.
The phone rang yet again. I saw the Landmark name (I had labeled it on
my phone as a warning to screen the call) and picked up. This time I
would give them a piece of my mind!
Of course, the Landmark rep, “Paul,” wasn’t having any of it.
“Sarah, can you honestly say you are where you want to be in your
life?"
Uh, well.
“What is really going on here? What are you resisting?”
Apparently, “resisting,” as they labeled my decision to get my money
back, was proof of how much I needed their help. You know, the help I
needed to stop resisting THEM. Get it?
“I just want a refund,” I stumbled, somehow getting roped back into
another big ass, circular conversation. They’re really good at that.
After almost 20 minutes on the phone it was clear I wasn't getting my
deposit back. Paul “reframed” it for me: essentially I could lose the
$300 or pony up the additional $200 and just see what the fuss was all
about.
Even then, as I was agreeing to pay the balance, I could feel my heart
pounding, stuffing down a little voice that said, This isn’t right.
Don’t go.
“All righty!” Paul interrupted my inner monologue. "So the total on
your Visa will be…” he slowed down. “Oooh, Sarah,” I could hear him
inhale through his teeth, “It looks like since you registered last
summer, but didn’t complete the forum, we can’t honor your deposit.”
What?
“And, it looks like the price of the course has gone up since you
registered.”
"Seriously?" I balked.
“I hear you, Sarah, but I want you to be open to the possibilities
that lay ahead for you.”
I didn’t feel open to new possibilities. I felt taken advantage of,
swindled, even a little bullied. But bullied in a really nice way.
As the seminar weekend approached, the feeling in the pit of my
stomach returned. But I had spent the money. I was going. The schedule
was as follows: Friday 10am-Midnight, Saturday 10am-Midnight, Sunday
10am-Midnight.
The leader, a stern, non-nonsense woman I’ll call Chris, explained the
contract we must all agree to: no use of alcohol, drugs. No problem.
I agree.
They went on to reject the use of coffee, caffeine, painkillers like
Advil, and snacks. Coffee? Snacks? Tylenol?
Also, there would be very limited breaks. As in one meal break for the
13-hour day. I didn’t think this was a big deal until I’d been sitting
for four hours in a hot room in a stiff row of people in a very
uncomfortable chair. One person got up after about an hour, presumably
for the bathroom, and Chris made quick work of explaining all the
reasons this was not okay. The tone was set: You followed the
schedule; you did not veer from the group.
Later, after spotting a few travel mugs of coffee in the audience and
more unofficial bathroom breaks, Chris exploded.
“You can’t control yourselves? Geez, you’re like babies here whining
about going to the bathroom and having your snacks.” She mocked us in
a high-pitched voice. Then, she got very serious.
“You get up and take a break? Don’t blame me if come Sunday everyone
else 'gets it' and you don’t. I can’t guarantee the transformation
that will happen Sunday at 5pm unless you are here and present every
second.”
Within the first hour of the seminar we were pressured to take the
$800 “advanced course.” To push us along, the drones in the back of
the room came up and gave testimonials like “I was like you once!
Skeptical, unsure.”
I look around the room. Does anyone else see what’s going on here? A
few do -- we make eye contact and quickly look away before the drones
can see us connecting and possibly staging a rebellion.
Nametags: They were very strict about them. I mean hardcore. You had
to have your nametag on and in view at all times. They were collected
anytime you left the room. Presumably to keep tabs on who had returned
(or were late returning) and who had not. It was weird.
Also within the first few hours, we were “challenged” to “powerfully
enroll our friends and family in the possibilities Landmark is giving
you!” This would mean using the few and far between breaks we did have
to call our friends and “get complete” with them. Then we were
supposed to bring them Sunday night to our own “completion” where they
could hear about our transformative weekend (and pay their own $300
deposit).
One woman raised her hand.
She was handed a microphone, and was thus allowed to speak. “I’m
sorry,” she started, her voice wobbling in preliminary apology, “but
do we have to tell them about Landmark? All of this feels like a big
commercial for Landmark.”
By the time Chris was done with her, this young woman had shrunk about
two inches and said, “I guess I wasn’t seeing the possibilities,” she
smiled hopefully, “Thank you.”
Cheers and applause broke out. “Yes! Look at that, people! She just
grew tenfold!”
But, not everyone was buying it. A man raised his hand. I'd noticed
this man before because it seemed whenever I was sighing or looking
askance he was doing the same thing.
In a very reasonable, professional manner, he raised his hand and
said, “Excuse me. I’ve been here for a little over three hours now.
And the only thing I’ve heard is how I should sign up and pay for more
Landmark classes.”
A small wave of nods rippled across the room.
In a roller coaster two minutes, Chris lauded the man for his honesty,
encouraging others who felt this way to show themselves. Then she went
in for the kill, spinning it around so anyone who questioned the
program or its tactics was “resisting.”
The second day, the man expressed the same feeling. This time, the mic
was ripped out of his hand, campaign manager style, “We are not
discussing that right now!” Chris snapped
On the third day he was “asked” to leave.
All of those things were freaky, but none truly scared me until we go
to this rule:
NO WRITING.
This was when the little hairs on the back of my neck came to
attention. Writing, whether it’s journaling, taking notes, even just
having a pen in my hand, is how I process the world.
When I expressed my concern over this, I was used as an example of
someone who is clearly resisting the work by choosing not to follow
the rules. Others around me, who only moments before had echoed my
feelings, now clammed up. They wouldn’t even meet my gaze.
So, after we’d all been given our East German Stasi cards -- oops, I
mean our nametags -- we were reminded that if someone is doing
something they’re not supposed to (taking notes, taking unofficial
breaks), you say something. Hold them accountable.
Yes, we were asked to police our neighbors.
About15 minutes after this “reminder,” the woman next to me tapped me
hard on my arm. “Yes?” I looked up, assuming she wanted to borrow
something or ask for a piece of gum.
“No writing!” she said, and waved her finger back and forth in my
face.
I almost stabbed her with my Bic Roller Gel.
I nearly walked out so many times, usually during the abusive
interactions between the leader and whatever emotionally wracked
person onstage. These were serious emotional breakdowns being handled
in five-minute increments by this Landmark leader. Not a well-trained,
experienced therapist in a safe environment but an arrogant, would-be
dictator who egged on these breakdowns, gave them a quickie “tool” to
get over their childhood trauma, and moved right along to the next
person.
There were first-time revelations of childhood molestations, my-father-
murdered-my-mother divulgements, I-think-I’m-gay moments. The words
that best sum up Landmark’s catch-and-release handling of these
fragile situations are dangerous and irresponsible.
I’ve done self-help work. I’m an actor, for Christ’s sake!
Introspection and being alone on stage is what we do! So I asked
questions in response to “the work” and was struck down, humiliated
and branded “uncoachable.”
Chris mocked me, "Oh, you have questions? You’re questioning me? How
long have you been leading the Forum? Do you think I know a thing or
two more than you about it?” I could literally hear cackles from
various part of the audience. It was fucking Animal Farm in there.
It went on like this as I watched others get worked over. It was
abusive, demeaning. Yet, people kept coming back for more!
The only reasonable explanation is Stockholm Syndrome. You are trapped
like sardines in rows with random people, after hours without food or
daylight, put into a high-pressure emotional situation, and told the
only way out of the emotional basket-case-ness that they have
instigated, is for you to pay for and take more of their seminars.
(And to “powerfully enroll others to do the same.”)
Looking back, I can’t believe I stayed as long as I did. I suspect
some people stay out of curiosity, a wanting-to-get-your-moneys worth
feeling.
I might have stayed even longer but then I heard this: Everything in
your life is your fault, including your rape.
They were SUCH assholes to me onstage after I'd bared my soul, and
talked about everything from being raped to my husband never wanting
to have sex with me. The upshot was essentially, Guess what, bitch?
It's all your fault!
Streams of people came up to me after I got up to do "the
work" (translation: get emotionally eviscerated/abused in public).
"The way she talked to you up there made me sick."
"After witnessing that, I don't think I can come back for another
day."
"That was unconscionable."
Yet, they all stayed. Why? Like a crowd around a wagon back medicine
show, they were desperate to see this "transformation" they had been
promised (over and over again) all weekend. ("Don't leave! You are
this close to "getting" it.)
That was Saturday night. I could have just gone home and not returned
for the third day, but something in me woke up. That pit in my
stomach? It was on fire. And it wasn’t going to go quietly. I had to
make a statement.
As homework the night of Day 2, we were supposed to write a letter to
someone we’ve “been inauthentic with.”
I went home and wrote out three pages on a legal pad. I returned
bright and early Sunday morning, on time and sitting in my seat (lest
I be scolded) like all the other good little sheep.
When it was my turn, I went up to the microphone and began to read:
“Dear, Sarah -- I realize now I have been inauthentic with you." I
could feel sympathetic nods up and down from the crowd. I continued.
“When I first heard about Landmark Forum, I had this terrible feeling
in the pit of my stomach. An instinct. A sense of dread. I ignored my
inner voice. I let myself look past all the unethical business
practices, the high-pressure sales tactics, the abusive, emotional
manipulation --"
“-- Turn off her mic! Turn off her mic!” Chris shouted, her arms
raised arms up and down like a stiff Henny Penny, and the drones
scurried do her bidding.
A Mack truck couldn’t stop me. I didn’t need a microphone, just my own
authentic voice. The drones went berserk, buzzing around in the back,
bumping into each other over the sound equipment. Someone finally just
ripped the cord out of the wall.
Chris raced toward me. She tried to shuffle me offstage -- physically.
I calmly (maybe too calmly) told her not to touch me. The audience
gasped. Gasped! As if I had done something to HER! Wow, they were
goners.
I went on with my letter.
She interrupted, shouting, “What do you want? Do you want a refund?”
I said, "Hell, yes!" and then got the hell off stage.
Three people booed me. Yes, BOOED ME. Another three came to the back
of the room to shake my hand, clap me on the back, and tell me that I
had just articulated everything they were thinking. Soon enough,
though, the drones broke up the conversation.
“I have to ask you to stop this conversation because you are just
creating another 'racket,'" which is Landmark-speak for “a persistent
complaint with someone or something that leads you into a habitual way
of being, thinking, feeling, or acting.”
“See?” I said to the three would-be-defectors. You take issue with
something Landmarkian? You are labeled as having a “racket,”
“resisting,” or -- my personal favorite -- being “uncoachable.”
So. Is it a cult? Technically, no. But, if it walks like cult, talks
like a cult, and preys on people like a cult, it just might be
Landmark. If this is what people call “Scientology light,” I’d hate
the get anywhere near the real thing.
I have since discovered that a couple of my friends have actually done
the basic Landmark Forum. I still don’t understand quite how they
couldn’t see through all the mindfucking-disguised-as-enlightenment,
deceptive business practices, Stockholm Syndrome-y seminars or the
constant, hard-sells to get more involved.
That said, if they got something positive out of it, I am truly glad
for them. (And a little in awe.)
One of them asked me, hopefully, “But, Sarah, you must have learned
something from it?”
I thought for a moment. “Yes,” I said. “I learned that I should trust
my instincts.” Like the time my gut told me, "Sarah, run fast. It’s
totally a cult.”
<<<<<<<<<<
tubby
Sep 3, 2012, 6:58:31 AM9/3/12
to
I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
says
is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,in that it
seems to me to
be melodramatic .
What I don't get though that she claims to have gotten
" “I learned that I should trust
> my instincts.” Like the time my gut told me, "Sarah, run fast. It’s
> totally a cult.”
close to
the "Nectar" Werner that is and his cronies, did not spot what she
got in a week end.
I ask you this because you have brought us to the attention of what I
call a true but melodramatic
account of what may have happened which you must see as important
otherwise you would have not brought it
to our attention.
I also don't see the Scientology tie up in the heading. To my
knowledge Scientology has a total different approach
and presentation of its material. There is no E meter in Forum as per
my experience.
If you know different then tell us about it.
Cheers
Serena Nordstrup
Sep 9, 2012, 8:15:25 AM9/9/12
to
On Sep 3, 10:58 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
<snip>
> On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
> I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
> says
> is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,
Can one disagree with a tone?
> in that it seems to me to be melodramatic .
might have a good old laugh.
> What I don't get though that she claims to have gotten
>
> " “I learned that I should trust
>
> > my instincts.” Like the time my gut told me, "Sarah, run fast. It’s
> > totally a cult.”
> Which is fine by me. However if this is true how come you in being so
> close to
> the "Nectar" Werner that is and his cronies, did not spot what she
> got in a week end.
>
> I ask you this because you have brought us to the attention of what I
> call a true but melodramatic
> account of what may have happened which you must see as important
> otherwise you would have not brought it
> to our attention.
> I also don't see the Scientology tie up in the heading. To my
> knowledge Scientology has a total different approach
> and presentation of its material.
> There is no E meter in Forum as per
> my experience.
tubby
Sep 12, 2012, 9:07:10 AM9/12/12
to
On Sep 9, 10:15 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 10:58 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
>
> <snip>
>
> > I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
> > says
> > is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,
>
> Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account?
>
> Can one disagree with a tone?
When it is exaggerated and it appeals to the emotions
> On Sep 3, 10:58 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
>
> <snip>
>
> > I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
> > says
> > is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,
>
> Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account?
>
> Can one disagree with a tone?
>
> > in that it seems to me to be melodramatic .
>
> If you ever get an opportunity to see a melodrama, Bruno, go. You
> might have a good old laugh.
exaggeration IMO.
>
> > What I don't get though that she claims to have gotten
>
> > " “I learned that I should trust
>
> > > my instincts.” Like the time my gut told me, "Sarah, run fast. It’s
> > > totally a cult.”
>
> We ~get~ that you don't ~get~ some things, Bruno.
not run
as fast as Sarah?????
>
> > Which is fine by me. However if this is true how come you in being so
> > close to
> > the "Nectar" Werner that is and his cronies, did not spot what she
> > got in a week end.
>
> > I ask you this because you have brought us to the attention of what I
> > call a true but melodramatic
> > account of what may have happened which you must see as important
> > otherwise you would have not brought it
> > to our attention.
>
> Caligari always posts seriously?
yours!!!!!
>
> > I also don't see the Scientology tie up in the heading. To my
> > knowledge Scientology has a total different approach
> > and presentation of its material.
>
> ... but remarkably similar material?
>
> > There is no E meter in Forum as per
> > my experience.
>
> Therefore ...
Therefore your comments as usual are wee bit flaky??????????
> > There is no E meter in Forum as per
> > my experience.
>
> Therefore ...
cheers
patrick
Sep 12, 2012, 10:08:53 AM9/12/12
to
member him. are u gonna see it cali ?
i am.
Caligari
Sep 12, 2012, 5:11:28 PM9/12/12
to
the release,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/sep/11/scientology-campaign-master
patrick
Sep 12, 2012, 6:51:25 PM9/12/12
to
On Sunday, September 2, 2012 11:50:29 PM UTC-5, Caligari wrote:
it would seem the more attention they give it , the more curiousity it
will develop.
wonder if werner will be jealous :)
patrick
Sep 12, 2012, 10:14:11 PM9/12/12
to
tubby
Sep 12, 2012, 10:30:07 PM9/12/12
to
movie till
you mentioned it. In fact I had not interest in it but then I
followed the
Web address supplied by Caligari, read a few of the comments there
and
it piqued my interest.
You are working as a shill to promote this film are you Pattie???
bentot
Sep 12, 2012, 11:56:30 PM9/12/12
to
Caligari
Sep 13, 2012, 3:34:00 AM9/13/12
to
On Sep 12, 7:30 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 13, 12:08 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> On Sep 13, 12:08 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
>
> > theres a movie coming up and it all about your cultie daddy elrod.
> > member him. are u gonna see it cali ?
>
> > i am.
>
> Funny you mention that Pattie, but I never even knew about this
> movie till
> you mentioned it. In fact I had not interest in it but then I
> followed the
> Web address supplied by Caligari, read a few of the comments there
> and
> it piqued my interest.
> You are working as a shill to promote this film are you Pattie???
Here's are a couple preview clips,
> > theres a movie coming up and it all about your cultie daddy elrod.
> > member him. are u gonna see it cali ?
>
> > i am.
>
> Funny you mention that Pattie, but I never even knew about this
> movie till
> you mentioned it. In fact I had not interest in it but then I
> followed the
> Web address supplied by Caligari, read a few of the comments there
> and
> it piqued my interest.
> You are working as a shill to promote this film are you Pattie???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGyj4pbfWfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFkFEzFp-Ac
Serena Nordstrup
Sep 13, 2012, 5:34:34 AM9/13/12
to
On Sep 13, 1:07 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 9, 10:15 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 3, 10:58 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > > > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
> > > says
> > > is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,
>
> > Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account?
Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account, Bruno?
> On Sep 9, 10:15 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 3, 10:58 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > > > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
> > > says
> > > is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,
>
> > Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account?
> > Can one disagree with a tone?
>
> When it is exaggerated and it appeals to the emotions
disagree with a ~story~ that (allegedly) appeals to emotions...
Can you give an example of what you might regard as exaggeration in
Sarah Fazeli's ~story~ ?
> > > in that it seems to me to be melodramatic .
>
> > If you ever get an opportunity to see a melodrama, Bruno, go. You
> > might have a good old laugh.
>
> The description of what may have happened was sensational
> exaggeration IMO.
> > > What I don't get though that she claims to have gotten
>
> > > " “I learned that I should trust
>
> > > > my instincts.” Like the time my gut told me, "Sarah, run fast. It’s
> > > > totally a cult.”
>
> > We ~get~ that you don't ~get~ some things, Bruno.
>
> So are you going to give us another explanation of why Caligari did
> not run as fast as Sarah?????
> > > Which is fine by me. However if this is true how come you in being so
> > > close to
> > > the "Nectar" Werner that is and his cronies, did not spot what she
> > > got in a week end.
>
> > > I ask you this because you have brought us to the attention of what I
> > > call a true but melodramatic
> > > account of what may have happened which you must see as important
> > > otherwise you would have not brought it
> > > to our attention.
>
> > Caligari always posts seriously?
>
> Most of the time. His viewpoints certainly have more meat on them then
> yours!!!!!
> > > I also don't see the Scientology tie up in the heading. To my
> > > knowledge Scientology has a total different approach
> > > and presentation of its material.
>
> > ... but remarkably similar material?
>
> How would you know.
> Are you also an expert in Scientology now?????????
> > > There is no E meter in Forum as per
> > > my experience.
>
> > Therefore ...
>
> Therefore your comments as usual are wee bit flaky??????????
~forum~ have to do with my comments, Bruno?
patrick
Sep 13, 2012, 9:54:41 AM9/13/12
to
mother church of landmark.
now what could be more interesting than that ?
patrick
Sep 13, 2012, 9:55:48 AM9/13/12
to
On Sunday, September 2, 2012 11:50:29 PM UTC-5, Caligari wrote:
see the connection between scientology and landmark.
patrick
Sep 13, 2012, 9:57:54 AM9/13/12
to
i know they tell u that he wasnt a scientology person but just took some
courses. u dont take courses from scientology without being a scientologist.
Caligari
Sep 13, 2012, 12:14:36 PM9/13/12
to
17 could get caught up in something like est against the better
judgement of someone older and more experienced. Now you don't
understand?
-- Caligari
Serena Nordstrup
Sep 14, 2012, 8:17:52 AM9/14/12
to
things like "understanding" from time to time...
And sometimes one overlooks Jack Rosenberg's promulgated doctrine of
"understanding" as "the booby -prize".
tubby
Sep 16, 2012, 5:48:03 AM9/16/12
to
I couldn't help having a dig at you because you brought this article
to our attention
and IMO it is a wee sensationalised about what may have happened.
Cheers
tubby
Sep 16, 2012, 6:07:09 AM9/16/12
to
On Sep 13, 7:34 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Sep 13, 1:07 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 9, 10:15 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 3, 10:58 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > > > > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > > I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
> > > > says
> > > > is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,
>
> > > Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account?
>
> Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account, Bruno?
>
> > > Can one disagree with a tone?
>
> > When it is exaggerated and it appeals to the emotions
>
> You complain when I (allegedly) do not show emotion, Bruno, and you
> disagree with a ~story~ that (allegedly) appeals to emotions...
Fair point Serena. Just shows you that I have feet of clay. I retract
> On Sep 13, 1:07 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 9, 10:15 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 3, 10:58 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > > > > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > > I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
> > > > says
> > > > is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,
>
> > > Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account?
>
> Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account, Bruno?
>
> > > Can one disagree with a tone?
>
> > When it is exaggerated and it appeals to the emotions
>
> You complain when I (allegedly) do not show emotion, Bruno, and you
> disagree with a ~story~ that (allegedly) appeals to emotions...
the word emotional.
>
> Can you give an example of what you might regard as exaggeration in
> Sarah Fazeli's ~story~ ?
>
> > > > in that it seems to me to be melodramatic .
>
> > > If you ever get an opportunity to see a melodrama, Bruno, go. You
> > > might have a good old laugh.
>
> > The description of what may have happened was sensational
> > exaggeration IMO.
>
> Why, did you learn something atypical of what you've heard before?
>
> > > > What I don't get though that she claims to have gotten
>
> > > > " “I learned that I should trust
>
> > > > > my instincts.” Like the time my gut told me, "Sarah, run fast. It’s
> > > > > totally a cult.”
>
> > > We ~get~ that you don't ~get~ some things, Bruno.
>
> > So are you going to give us another explanation of why Caligari did
> > not run as fast as Sarah?????
>
> I don't see the connection.
>
> > > > Which is fine by me. However if this is true how come you in being so
> > > > close to
> > > > the "Nectar" Werner that is and his cronies, did not spot what she
> > > > got in a week end.
>
> > > > I ask you this because you have brought us to the attention of what I
> > > > call a true but melodramatic
> > > > account of what may have happened which you must see as important
> > > > otherwise you would have not brought it
> > > > to our attention.
>
> > > Caligari always posts seriously?
>
> > Most of the time. His viewpoints certainly have more meat on them then
> > yours!!!!!
>
> You regard vegetarians as flippant?
No but I regard many of your questions are scummy,shabby and shoddy.
> > > > Which is fine by me. However if this is true how come you in being so
> > > > close to
> > > > the "Nectar" Werner that is and his cronies, did not spot what she
> > > > got in a week end.
>
> > > > I ask you this because you have brought us to the attention of what I
> > > > call a true but melodramatic
> > > > account of what may have happened which you must see as important
> > > > otherwise you would have not brought it
> > > > to our attention.
>
> > > Caligari always posts seriously?
>
> > Most of the time. His viewpoints certainly have more meat on them then
> > yours!!!!!
>
> You regard vegetarians as flippant?
>
> > > > I also don't see the Scientology tie up in the heading. To my
> > > > knowledge Scientology has a total different approach
> > > > and presentation of its material.
>
> > > ... but remarkably similar material?
>
> > How would you know.
>
> I asked. I put a question mark on the end of the phrase.
>
> > Are you also an expert in Scientology now?????????
>
> As well as in vexillology ?
Who knows and who cares???? of the many so
> > Are you also an expert in Scientology now?????????
>
> As well as in vexillology ?
called quirky areas of interest you may have??
>
> > > > There is no E meter in Forum as per
> > > > my experience.
>
> > > Therefore ...
>
> > Therefore your comments as usual are wee bit flaky??????????
>
> What does the lack of an overt e-meter in the ~landmark~ so-called
> ~forum~ have to do with my comments, Bruno?
Just as I have said that your comments are as usual a wee bit flaky.
> > > > There is no E meter in Forum as per
> > > > my experience.
>
> > > Therefore ...
>
> > Therefore your comments as usual are wee bit flaky??????????
>
> What does the lack of an overt e-meter in the ~landmark~ so-called
> ~forum~ have to do with my comments, Bruno?
Now where were we.
Are you going to answer Ben' s question namely
"Who are you????
cheers have to run.
My wife has rung the Cow bell
which calls for my presence at the family meal.
Adieu
patrick
Sep 16, 2012, 2:50:30 PM9/16/12
to
On Sunday, September 2, 2012 11:50:29 PM UTC-5, Caligari wrote:
Caligari
Sep 16, 2012, 3:47:17 PM9/16/12
to
Serena Nordstrup
Sep 17, 2012, 8:09:05 AM9/17/12
to
On Sep 16, 10:07 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 13, 7:34 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 13, 1:07 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 9, 10:15 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 3, 10:58 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > > > > > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
>
> > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
> > > > > says
> > > > > is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,
>
> > > > Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account?
>
> > Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account, Bruno?
>
> > > > Can one disagree with a tone?
>
> > > When it is exaggerated and it appeals to the emotions
>
> > You complain when I (allegedly) do not show emotion, Bruno, and you
> > disagree with a ~story~ that (allegedly) appeals to emotions...
>
> Fair point Serena. Just shows you that I have feet of clay. I retract
> the word emotional.
Ok.
> On Sep 13, 7:34 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 13, 1:07 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 9, 10:15 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 3, 10:58 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Sep 3, 2:50 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > From: http://www.xojane.com/newagey/landmark-forum-cult
>
> > > > > > MY (SCARY, DESTRUCTIVE) BRUSH WITH SCIENTOLOGY LIGHT
>
> > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > I can relate to what this participant is stating and most of what she
> > > > > says
> > > > > is true. However I disagree with the tone of the story,
>
> > > > Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account?
>
> > Do you mean that you don't like the tone of the account, Bruno?
>
> > > > Can one disagree with a tone?
>
> > > When it is exaggerated and it appeals to the emotions
>
> > You complain when I (allegedly) do not show emotion, Bruno, and you
> > disagree with a ~story~ that (allegedly) appeals to emotions...
>
> Fair point Serena. Just shows you that I have feet of clay. I retract
> the word emotional.
> > Can you give an example of what you might regard as exaggeration in
> > Sarah Fazeli's ~story~ ?
>
> No . You just have to take my word for it.
when making accusations, the force of your ~word~ weakens and decays
until your audience finds it increasingly difficult to accept your
~word~ just when you want them to ...
> > > > > in that it seems to me to be melodramatic .
>
> > > > If you ever get an opportunity to see a melodrama, Bruno, go. You
> > > > might have a good old laugh.
>
> > > The description of what may have happened was sensational
> > > exaggeration IMO.
>
> > Why, did you learn something atypical of what you've heard before?
> > > > > What I don't get though that she claims to have gotten
>
> > > > > " “I learned that I should trust
>
> > > > > > my instincts.” Like the time my gut told me, "Sarah, run fast. It’s
> > > > > > totally a cult.”
>
> > > > We ~get~ that you don't ~get~ some things, Bruno.
>
> > > So are you going to give us another explanation of why Caligari did
> > > not run as fast as Sarah?????
>
> > I don't see the connection.
>
> You never do . Pity
> > > > > Which is fine by me. However if this is true how come you in being so
> > > > > close to
> > > > > the "Nectar" Werner that is and his cronies, did not spot what she
> > > > > got in a week end.
>
> > > > > I ask you this because you have brought us to the attention of what I
> > > > > call a true but melodramatic
> > > > > account of what may have happened which you must see as important
> > > > > otherwise you would have not brought it
> > > > > to our attention.
>
> > > > Caligari always posts seriously?
>
> > > Most of the time. His viewpoints certainly have more meat on them then
> > > yours!!!!!
>
> > You regard vegetarians as flippant?
>
> No but I regard many of your questions are scummy,shabby and shoddy.
> > > > > I also don't see the Scientology tie up in the heading. To my
> > > > > knowledge Scientology has a total different approach
> > > > > and presentation of its material.
>
> > > > ... but remarkably similar material?
>
> > > How would you know.
>
> > I asked. I put a question mark on the end of the phrase.
>
> So you did.
>
>
>
> > > Are you also an expert in Scientology now?????????
>
> > As well as in vexillology ?
>
> Who knows and who cares???? of the many so
> called quirky areas of interest you may have??
> > > > > There is no E meter in Forum as per
> > > > > my experience.
>
> > > > Therefore ...
>
> > > Therefore your comments as usual are wee bit flaky??????????
>
> > What does the lack of an overt e-meter in the ~landmark~ so-called
> > ~forum~ have to do with my comments, Bruno?
>
> Just as I have said that your comments are as usual a wee bit flaky.
>
> Now where were we.
called ~forum~ have to do with my comments, Bruno?
> Are you going to answer Ben' s question namely
>
> "Who are you????
Not until someone demonstrates its relevance.
>
> "Who are you????
> cheers have to run.
>
> My wife has rung the Cow bell
> which calls for my presence at the family meal.
> Adieu
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