the jinn

[patrick]

check it out tub.

http://alyaseen.tumblr.com/

[tubby]

On May 15, 11:39 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> check it out tub.
>
> http://alyaseen.tumblr.com/

I did however your Jinn was an Indian one and not an Arabian .
Can you see the difference???

Cheers bruno

[patrick]

what is the difference ? i believe jinnendra was from india if im not
mistaken.

[tubby]

I recall Tex bringing it to your attention that the Jinn belonged to a
sect called Jainism? or something similar.
They are even more disciplined than the "Quakers" when it comes to
non Violence.

See below taken from WIKIPEDIA.
I wonder whether your life is as disciplined as the Jinn's ( In
theory)

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism


A scrupulous and thorough application of non-violence to everyday
activities, and especially to food, is the most significant hallmark
of Jain identity.[29] The Jain diet, observed by the followers of Jain
culture and philosophy, is one of the most rigorous forms of
spiritually motivated diet found either on the Indian subcontinent or
elsewhere. It is completely vegetarian, excludes onions and garlic,
and may additionally exclude potatoes and other root vegetables. The
strictest forms of Jain diet are practised by the ascetics.[30] For
Jains, lacto-vegetarianism is mandatory: food which contains even
small particles of the bodies of dead animals or eggs is absolutely
unacceptable. Jain scholars and activists support veganism, as the
production of dairy products is perceived to involve violence against
cows. Strict Jains do not eat root vegetables, such as potatoes and
onions, because tiny organisms are injured when the plant is pulled
up, and also because a bulb or tuber's ability to sprout is seen as
characteristic of a living being.[31]

Jains make considerable efforts in everyday life not to injure plants
any more than necessary. Although they admit that plants must be
destroyed for the sake of food, they accept such violence only
inasmuch as it is indispensable for human survival, and there are
special instructions for minimizing violence against plants. Jains
also go out of their way not to hurt even small insects and other
minuscule animals. They rarely go out at night, when it is more likely
that they might trample insects. In their view, injury caused by
carelessness is like injury caused by deliberate action.[32] Eating
honey is strictly outlawed, as it would amount to violence against the
bees. Jains avoid farming because it inevitably entails unintentional
killing or injuring of small animals, such as worms and insects, but
agriculture is not forbidden in general and Jain farmers exist.[33]
Additionally, because they consider harsh words to be a form of
violence, they often keep a cloth for a ritual mouth-covering, serving
as a reminder not to allow violence in their speech.[34]

[patrick]

On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:39:54 PM UTC-5, patrick wrote:
> check it out tub.
>
>
>
> http://alyaseen.tumblr.com/

tub, my post button is gone again but i post by
posting back to my original one.

jinn mentioned his name was the name of an old religion, he did
not mention jainish and his name tag never reflected that.
his name tag did have the name jinn on it.

this is interesting to compare the landmark forum to the jinn religion.

in times past the jinn would take their (victims) as they called them
to a place in the desert at night. they had previously dug a pit filled
with excrement and this is where they would dip or drop their victims into
it. but before they would do this they would lite up a fire of some sort,
i call it a bon fire. they would put something into the fire to take
their victims (to a place between awake and asleep). their victims would
breathe this stuff and would become sedated in a sense.

they would be given three wishes and would be baptized in the pit.

landmark asks their victims for the three things in life they want the
most. as compared to the jinn giving out their three wishes.

i understand u will not agree with this but jinn seemed to give out a baptism
in a psychological way. landmark would be have huge problems if they actually
used excrement . they would probably be shut down for this.

the jinn used excrement and landmark uses psycological excrement, at least
on occasion.

this is done in the danger process, while all the people are wailing and
screaming anc crying. while they are terrified of the people around them.

its interesting how in landamrk after the people are wailing and screaming
and crying how they are then the ones that give out the terror and make
all the other people terrified of them and they laugh.

believe it or not many people dont remember this part of the forum, some will
have a recollection of it after it is brought up to them and some dont remember it at all.

and the jinn have no truth. neither does landamrk.

its quoet fascinating to see the resemblences.

[patrick]

also here is more info on the jinn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

[Serena Nordstrup]

On 17 May, 12:20, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 17, 1:14 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:04:53 AM UTC-5, tubby wrote:
> > > On May 15, 11:39 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:

<snip>

> I wonder whether your life is as disciplined as the Jinn's   ( In
> theory)

Where might wonder fit in ~commitment~ to ~transformation~, Bruno?

[tubby]

Wouldn't have a clue and I don't care.

But I do care that Patrick's Jinn gets reported as and agreed upon in
the past posts.

You been smoking lately too???

The Jinn was of Indian extraction and belonged to a sect called
Jainism.

Whats wrong with you Patrick , is your memory a bit shaky??????

Cheers

[bentot]

LOL

[patrick]

no


do u know of any jains that give psycological baptisms ? is that part
of the jain religion too ?

have people are or have been associated with landmark telling u that
jinn was a jain ?

remember, they have no truth.


>
>
>
> Cheers

[tubby]

Patty apart from Tex bringing to your attention your Jinn's Jainism
here is one from Larry
from the archives.

You been running this story for too long Patty.

Put out your hands and show the love you claim to have
and ask for forgiveness for spreading malicious rumors
about the Jinn.


" Patrick, Jinn are noncorporeal beings in the Islamic tradition.
They're part of the islamic holy scripture. If anyone cares, do a
google search on "jinn" and you'll find the Koran references.
There is no religion centered around the Jinn. They are part of
Islam. Period. Read your Koran.
The newsgroup you're referring to is alt.mythology.jinn.
All the rest of it -- you made it up. Maybe you misinterpretted
something you heard or read. Maybe you were under the influence.
Who
knows. But that's it. You're spreading bullshit, intentionally or
not. I don't think anyone falls for it.
If you don't like Jinnendra because he has a filthy mouth, say that.
But don't make him into something he isn't.
You may not know many Indians down there in Florida, but believe me.
If you get a guy from india and ask him to say "Jain" it's gonna
sound
like "Jinn" and vise versa. Maybe you shouldn't have done bong hits
before your forum, eh? <g>
You should check out the Jain religion, by the way. It's really
cool.
They're loving, kind, peaceful people.

[patrick]

the jain people may be loving, kind peaceful people.

from what i have read it seems eve some of the jinn are like that.
unfortunatly some are not.

do u agree ?

from reading about them of course.

and heres a hypotetical questio for u.

if jinn is in fact a jinn and a bad jinn would u have any problem with
him leading the forums ?

[Serena Nordstrup]

On May 19, 3:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 18, 6:40 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > On 17 May, 12:20, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 17, 1:14 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > > On Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:04:53 AM UTC-5, tubby wrote:
> > > > > On May 15, 11:39 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> >  <snip>
>
> > > I wonder whether your life is as disciplined as the Jinn's   ( In
> > > theory)
>
> > Where might wonder fit in ~commitment~ to ~transformation~, Bruno?
>
> Wouldn't have a clue and I don't care.
>
> But I do care that Patrick's Jinn gets reported as and agreed upon  in
> the past posts.
>
> You been smoking lately too???

No. Why do you ask? Do you find it easier to ask personal questions
than to care about the discussion of ~commitment~ to ~transformation~
in alt.fan.landmark?

[tubby]

On May 19, 4:14 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On May 19, 3:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 18, 6:40 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 17 May, 12:20, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 17, 1:14 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:04:53 AM UTC-5, tubby wrote:
> > > > > > On May 15, 11:39 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > >  <snip>
>
> > > > I wonder whether your life is as disciplined as the Jinn's   ( In
> > > > theory)
>
> > > Where might wonder fit in ~commitment~ to ~transformation~, Bruno?
>
> > Wouldn't have a clue and I don't care.
>
> > But I do care that Patrick's Jinn gets reported as and agreed upon  in
> > the past posts.
>
> > You been smoking lately too???
>
> No. Why do you ask?

Just read your previous post.

It had Ben LOL.

That's a good enough reason to ask you agaain.
" Have you been smoking"

 Do you find it easier to ask personal questions
> than to care about the discussion of ~commitment~ to ~transformation~
> in alt.fan.landmark?

Not at all, however it helps to know who you are talking to.
In your case a woooonderful, sooooooophisticated, all knowing Muse
who lives in the heavens.

With any one having commitment to transformation, I don't know anyone
and don't care to know anyone presently.

Since it is a concern for you be my guest and go find someone.

Cheers

[tubby]

Don;t know.

>
> from reading about them of course.
>
> and heres a hypotetical questio for u.
>
> if jinn is in fact a jinn and a bad jinn would u have any problem with
> him leading the forums ?

How about rephrasing the question that you took an offense at
your Forum leaders actions and dialogue.

Larry says it succinctly

" You're spreading bullshit, intentionally or
not. I don't think anyone falls for it.
If you don't like Jinnendra because he has a filthy mouth, say that.
But don't make him into something he isn't. "

Now wouldn't that be more appropriate.

Cheers

[patrick]

now tubby i am not asking u have been smoking, but ill bet u have been
taking medication ?

[patrick]

according to my browser it seems that tubby just answered the question
of whether he as been smoking as "i dont know "

hello hello, calling on tubby.

[patrick]

please answer the question please.

and when did u decide to follow tex down the rabbit hole "

[tubby]

Patty I grew up in an era where drugs were feared so I never
partook. I also had a job with Qantas airlines as Cabin Crew when I
had hair, where I traveled
internationally consistently and at that time it was alcohol that
reigned supreme
rather than drugs.

One had to behave whilst overseas otherwise your job was at risk
and because the working conditions were so good 99.9% of the crews
followed the rules.

Medication was never on the radar because if you are fortunate enough
to marry well and have
a reasonable job one need not go down that line.

On your last question I have no problems supporting Tex a reasonable
and fair person who
says whats on his mind..


Now back to you Pattie

I thought you told me you had forgiven the Jinn.

'Judge them not on what they say but by their actions' ??????

Now where did you hear that Pattie???

I hope you are well

Cheers

[patrick]

i forgave jinnendra. i still think hes quite creepy though.

>
>
>
> 'Judge them not on what they say but by their actions' ??????
>
>
>
> Now where did you hear that Pattie???

isnt that what u are doing to me ?

>
>
>
> I hope you are well

i hope u well too, but u still havent answered the question i give u.

ill wail patiently.


>
>
>
> Cheers

[Serena Nordstrup]

Turning a hypothetical question into a concrete statement and
switching the focus from one person's opinion to different person's
opinion -- that doesn't sound like legitimate "rephrasing" to me.

> Larry says it succinctly
>
> " You're spreading bullshit, intentionally or
> not.  I don't think anyone falls for it.
> If you don't like Jinnendra because he has a filthy mouth, say that.
> But don't make him into something he isn't. "

No hypotheticals?

> Now wouldn't that be more appropriate.

No. That would subvert and evade the question. We could call it
"circle-jerkery"...

[Serena Nordstrup]

On May 19, 9:48 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 19, 4:14 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 3:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 18, 6:40 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 17 May, 12:20, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 17, 1:14 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:04:53 AM UTC-5, tubby wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 15, 11:39 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > >  <snip>
>
> > > > > I wonder whether your life is as disciplined as the Jinn's   ( In
> > > > > theory)
>
> > > > Where might wonder fit in ~commitment~ to ~transformation~, Bruno?
>
> > > Wouldn't have a clue and I don't care.
>
> > > But I do care that Patrick's Jinn gets reported as and agreed upon  in
> > > the past posts.
>
> > > You been smoking lately too???
>
> > No. Why do you ask?
>
> Just read your previous post.

Good on you.

> It had  Ben LOL.

Do we know why? Did he LOL at my stupidity? at my wit? at my tactics
or alleged agenda?

> That's a good enough reason to ask you agaain.

Even though I'd already answered clearly and unambiguously?

> " Have you been smoking"
>
>   Do you find it easier to ask personal questions
>
> > than to care about the discussion of ~commitment~ to ~transformation~
> > in alt.fan.landmark?
>
> Not at all, however it helps to know who you are talking to.
> In your case a woooonderful, sooooooophisticated, all knowing Muse
> who lives in the heavens.

Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
little works of (unacknowledged) fiction?

> With any one having commitment  to transformation, I don't know anyone
> and don't care to know anyone presently.

Good -- then we can discuss matters of ~commitment~ to
~transformation~ without the distractions of personal emotional
~opinions~ about third parties.

> Since it is a concern for you be my guest and go find someone.

I found a whole org! I quote: "The Landmark Forum [...] is designed to
bring about a fundamental shift or transformation in what is possible
in people's lives. [...] A fundamental principle of Landmark
Education's work is that people [...] have the possibility of not only
success, but also fulfillment and greatness. It is to this possibility
that Landmark Worldwide and its work are committed."

Sound familiar? See:

http://www.landmarkeducation.com/

(if you can stand the self-righteous "fundamentalist" preachiness and
blatant jargon-ridden commercialism)

[tubby]

What are you now shilling for Landmark!!!!!
Boy that"s a change
Good Luck

[Serena Nordstrup]

On May 21, 3:11 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 20, 9:46 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 19, 9:48 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 19, 4:14 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 19, 3:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 18, 6:40 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 17 May, 12:20, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On May 17, 1:14 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:04:53 AM UTC-5, tubby wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On May 15, 11:39 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > >  <snip>
>
> > > > > > > I wonder whether your life is as disciplined as the Jinn's   ( In
> > > > > > > theory)
>
> > > > > > Where might wonder fit in ~commitment~ to ~transformation~, Bruno?
>
> > > > > Wouldn't have a clue and I don't care.
>
> > > > > But I do care that Patrick's Jinn gets reported as and agreed upon  in
> > > > > the past posts.
>
> > > > > You been smoking lately too???
>
> > > > No. Why do you ask?
>
> > > Just read your previous post.
>
> > Good on you.
>
> > > It had  Ben LOL.
>
> > Do we know why? Did he LOL at my stupidity? at my wit? at my tactics
> > or alleged agenda?

Do we know why?

> > > That's a good enough reason to ask you agaain.
>
> > Even though I'd already answered clearly and unambiguously?
>
> > > " Have you been smoking"
>
> > >   Do you find it easier to ask personal questions
>
> > > > than to care about the discussion of ~commitment~ to ~transformation~
> > > > in alt.fan.landmark?
>
> > > Not at all, however it helps to know who you are talking to.
> > > In your case a woooonderful, sooooooophisticated, all knowing Muse
> > > who lives in the heavens.
>
> > Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
> > little works of (unacknowledged) fiction?

Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up

little works of (unacknowledged) fiction, Bruno?

> > > With any one having commitment  to transformation, I don't know anyone
> > > and don't care to know anyone presently.
>
> > Good -- then we can discuss matters of ~commitment~ to
> > ~transformation~ without the distractions of personal emotional
> > ~opinions~ about third parties.
>
> > > Since it is a concern for you be my guest and go find someone.
>
> > I found a whole org! I quote: "The Landmark Forum [...] is designed to
> > bring about a fundamental shift or transformation in what is possible
> > in people's lives. [...] A fundamental principle of Landmark
> > Education's work is that people [...] have the possibility of not only
> > success, but also fulfillment and greatness. It is to this possibility
> > that Landmark Worldwide and its work are committed."
>
> > Sound familiar?

Sound familar, Bruno? -- Or does it just sound silly now?

> > See:
>
> >  http://www.landmarkeducation.com/
>
> > (if you can stand the self-righteous "fundamentalist" preachiness and
> > blatant jargon-ridden commercialism)
>
> What are you now shilling for Landmark!!!!!

... as you might detect from my commentary.

That web-page provides some discussion points for jargon and "hooking"
people into becoming proselytes. Or have you lost interest in the
hooking process?

[patrick]

come on tubby, im waiting for an answer from the great tub.

[tubby]

I think it was your circle jerking fair Muse. But why ask me.
Why not ask " your good friend " Ben yourself???

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > That's a good enough reason to ask you agaain.
>
> > > Even though I'd already answered clearly and unambiguously?

Where I missed it.

>
> > > > " Have you been smoking"
>
> > > >   Do you find it easier to ask personal questions
>
> > > > > than to care about the discussion of ~commitment~ to ~transformation~
> > > > > in alt.fan.landmark?
>
> > > > Not at all, however it helps to know who you are talking to.
> > > > In your case a woooonderful, sooooooophisticated, all knowing Muse
> > > > who lives in the heavens.
>
> > > Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
> > > little works of (unacknowledged) fiction?
>
> Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
> little works of (unacknowledged) fiction, Bruno?

You do Muse.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > With any one having commitment  to transformation, I don't know anyone
> > > > and don't care to know anyone presently.
>
> > > Good -- then we can discuss matters of ~commitment~ to
> > > ~transformation~ without the distractions of personal emotional
> > > ~opinions~ about third parties.
>
> > > > Since it is a concern for you be my guest and go find someone.
>
> > > I found a whole org! I quote: "The Landmark Forum [...] is designed to
> > > bring about a fundamental shift or transformation in what is possible
> > > in people's lives. [...] A fundamental principle of Landmark
> > > Education's work is that people [...] have the possibility of not only
> > > success, but also fulfillment and greatness. It is to this possibility
> > > that Landmark Worldwide and its work are committed."
>
> > > Sound familiar?
>
> Sound familar, Bruno? -- Or does it just sound silly now?

You have a point but I no one here has claimed their flyers
were impeccable.
IMO all that has been claimed that participating in the EST?Forum
workshops was useful.

>
> > > See:
>
> > >  http://www.landmarkeducation.com/
>
> > > (if you can stand the self-righteous "fundamentalist" preachiness and
> > > blatant jargon-ridden commercialism)
>
> > What are you now shilling for Landmark!!!!!
>
> ... as you might detect from my commentary.
>
> That web-page provides some discussion points for jargon and "hooking"
> people into becoming proselytes. Or have you lost interest in the
> hooking process?

I can't see it myself fair Muse.

Maybe you could enlighten me by showing me which jargon and hooking
points you are referring to???
Please explain the hooking points and how it works.
I'm sure Ben would also be interested unless he is again LOL
at our conversation.

Cheers

[tubby]

If its the Hypothetical forget it
The Jinn was a Jain.
Lets stick to reality.

cheers

[Serena Nordstrup]

I didn't ask what you think, Bruno. I asked whether we know.

> But why ask me.
> Why not ask  " your good friend "  Ben yourself???

Because you made the opaque conclusion that Ben's "LOL" constituted
some sort of evidence for something or other.

> > > > > That's a good enough reason to ask you agaain.
>
> > > > Even though I'd already answered clearly and unambiguously?
>
> Where I missed it.

Hidden in plain sight...

> > > > > " Have you been smoking"
>
> > > > >   Do you find it easier to ask personal questions
>
> > > > > > than to care about the discussion of ~commitment~ to ~transformation~
> > > > > > in alt.fan.landmark?
>
> > > > > Not at all, however it helps to know who you are talking to.
> > > > > In your case a woooonderful, sooooooophisticated, all knowing Muse
> > > > > who lives in the heavens.
>
> > > > Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
> > > > little works of (unacknowledged) fiction?
>
> > Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
> > little works of (unacknowledged) fiction, Bruno?
>
> You do Muse.

An "all knowing Muse" needs to know things? - Non sequitur.

Anyone else need to know things when one can much more readily dream

up little works of (unacknowledged) fiction, Bruno?

> > > > > With any one having commitment  to transformation, I don't know anyone
> > > > > and don't care to know anyone presently.
>
> > > > Good -- then we can discuss matters of ~commitment~ to
> > > > ~transformation~ without the distractions of personal emotional
> > > > ~opinions~ about third parties.
>
> > > > > Since it is a concern for you be my guest and go find someone.
>
> > > > I found a whole org! I quote: "The Landmark Forum [...] is designed to
> > > > bring about a fundamental shift or transformation in what is possible
> > > > in people's lives. [...] A fundamental principle of Landmark
> > > > Education's work is that people [...] have the possibility of not only
> > > > success, but also fulfillment and greatness. It is to this possibility
> > > > that Landmark Worldwide and its work are committed."
>
> > > > Sound familiar?
>
> > Sound familar, Bruno? -- Or does it just sound silly now?

Does the rosenbergist spiel sound familiar, Bruno? -- Or does it just

sound silly now?

> You have a point but I no one here has claimed their flyers
> were impeccable.

You may have once had a point but Ian Smith served as Prime Minister
of Rhodesia. And?

> IMO all that has been claimed that participating in the EST?Forum
> workshops was useful.

In July 2006 someone called "Bruno Tonon" wrote in alt.fan.landmark:
"I am not suggesting the courses are for everyone, but just stating
that I think they are worthwhile and valuable". You would not agree
with this claim then, Bruno, since it suggests more than the claim of
participation as useful?

> > > > See:
>
> > > >  http://www.landmarkeducation.com/
>
> > > > (if you can stand the self-righteous "fundamentalist" preachiness and
> > > > blatant jargon-ridden commercialism)
>
> > > What are you now shilling for Landmark!!!!!
>
> > ... as you might detect from my commentary.
>
> > That web-page provides some discussion points for jargon and "hooking"
> > people into becoming proselytes. Or have you lost interest in the
> > hooking process?
>
> I can't see it myself fair Muse.

Start with (for example) "not only success, but also fulfillment and
greatness". Run that phrase past an "advertising-creative" and ask
her to identify the hooks. Then point out the deflating jargon of "the
~possibility~ of ".

> Maybe you could enlighten me by showing me which  jargon and hooking
> points you are referring to???

Maybe you would learn more by doing the exercise yourself, rather than
leaning on the overworked droids in advertising as suggested. Even
though I've already done about 90 percent of the work for you.

> Please explain the hooking points and how it works.

One thing at a time, Bruno. Let's identify the hooks to our mutual
satisfaction first.

> I'm sure Ben would also be interested unless he is again LOL
> at our conversation.

Sure .... but not sure... Make up your mind, Bruno. You might sound
more forceful and convincing.

[patrick]

unable to answer the hypothetical. just like all the other landmark grads.

come on , u can do it. and after we will discuss the same subject
from the perspective that i am crazy and stupid )


>
>
>
> cheers

[fatladysingshere]

> what is the difference ? i believe jinnendra was from india if im not
>
> mistaken.

You as one person have an opinion about another person "Jinendra". Should anyone listen to you or believe you, anymore then anyone should listen to or believe anyone who has ever visited this newsgroup about their opinion of you? More then once I have read individuals on here calling you some version of a neurotic medicated bible thumping lunatic, so should people buy into such limited lopsided albeit heart felt comments from strangers about who and what you are?

[patrick]

of course they wouldnt be doing that unless they were somehow afraid of the truth.

anyway. welcome to the newsgroup and welcome back to the newsgroup , in case
u have come using a different alias.

tell us a little somethin about yourself.

i believe u are a female )

[fatladysingshere]

> of course they wouldnt be doing that unless they were somehow afraid of the truth.

Should anyone listen to you or believe you regarding "Jinendra", anymore then anyone should listen to or believe anyone who has ever visited this newsgroup about their opinion of you Patrick?

> tell us a little somethin about yourself.

I like carrots.

> i believe u are a female )

Correct me if I am mistaken but you also believe in a certain "holy ghost".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit

[patrick]

i like carrots too.

[patrick]

On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:19:15 PM UTC-5, fatladysingshere wrote:

i do believe in the Holy Spirit. it is also true that many people
believe this is nonsense. i accept that.

[fatladysingshere]

> i do believe in the Holy Spirit. it is also true that many people
>
> believe this is nonsense. i accept that.

Why should anyone reading alt.fan.landmark for the first time go along with you regarding "Jinendra", anymore then they should go along with others extreme and unflattering opinions and views about you Patrick?

[patrick]

well nobody has to. i present that jinn is a jinn or least he played the part
of jinn.

u can believe it or u can not believe it.

im not here to make u do anything.

by the way do u have any kind of belief system ?

[fatladysingshere]

> well nobody has to. i present that jinn is a jinn or least he played the part of jinn.

I did not ask you if anyone had to did I? I asked if you, more or less, if visitors should consider the untold number unflattering comments others have made about you or just outright ignore them?

> u can believe it or u can not believe it.

Yes, that is a given.

> im not here to make u do anything.

Who said you were here to make anyone do or not do anything? I certainly did not.

> by the way do u have any kind of belief system ?

Are we all not born into a belief system or systems whether we like it or not.? Your question presupposes that a human being can be on earth without a "belief system". As far as I can tell, it comes with the body and emerges almost immediately as one learns to walk and goes from a infant to an adult. And all that is just one of the belief sets that have emerged somewhere somehow where I am located, I suppose.

[patrick]

On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:05:12 PM UTC-5, fatladysingshere wrote:
> > well nobody has to. i present that jinn is a jinn or least he played the part of jinn.
>
>
>
> I did not ask you if anyone had to did I? I asked if you, more or less, if visitors should consider the untold number unflattering comments others have made about you or just outright ignore them?

if u was them i would consider the unflattering along with the flattering
and judge for themselves.

>
>
>
> > u can believe it or u can not believe it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, that is a given.
>
>
>
>
>
> > im not here to make u do anything.
>
>
>
>
>
> Who said you were here to make anyone do or not do anything? I certainly did not.

i didnt say u did.

>
>
>
> > by the way do u have any kind of belief system ?
>
>
>
> Are we all not born into a belief system or systems whether we like it or not.? Your question presupposes that a human being can be on earth without a "belief system". As far as I can tell, it comes with the body and emerges almost immediately as one learns to walk and goes from a infant to an adult. And all that is just one of the belief sets that have emerged somewhere somehow where I am located, I suppose.

no religious affiliation then, u are not a jinn or a christitan for that matter.


hope u stick around the group for a while. welcome to the newsgroup.

[fatladysingshere]

> no religious affiliation then, u are not a jinn or a christitan for that matter.

By "belief system" were you asking me if I subscribed to some articular religious doctrine or followed some religious group tradition or religious belief? If you were, I did not understand that that is what you were asking. I do have certain religious leanings, but not ones that I discuss on the internet.

> hope u stick around the group for a while. welcome to the newsgroup.

Thank-you

Any chance you would speak to what I asked about your unflattering opinion/comments about Jinendra vs. posters here unflattering opinions/comments about you?

[tubby]

Who is we?????
I am giving you my opinion rightly or wrongly.

>
> > But why ask me.
> > Why not ask  " your good friend "  Ben yourself???
>
> Because you made the opaque conclusion that Ben's "LOL" constituted
> some sort of evidence for something or other.

Well it was in my eyes and of the members in the group. No one here
said otherwise

.
>
> > > > > > That's a good enough reason to ask you agaain.
>
> > > > > Even though I'd already answered clearly and unambiguously?
>
> > Where I missed it.
>
> Hidden in plain sight...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > " Have you been smoking"
>
> > > > > >   Do you find it easier to ask personal questions
>
> > > > > > > than to care about the discussion of ~commitment~ to ~transformation~
> > > > > > > in alt.fan.landmark?
>
> > > > > > Not at all, however it helps to know who you are talking to.
> > > > > > In your case a woooonderful, sooooooophisticated, all knowing Muse
> > > > > > who lives in the heavens.
>
> > > > > Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
> > > > > little works of (unacknowledged) fiction?
>
> > > Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
> > > little works of (unacknowledged) fiction, Bruno?

Correct.
Just playing your game.

>
> > You do Muse.
>
> An "all knowing Muse" needs to know things? - Non sequitur.
>
> Anyone else need to know things when one can much more readily dream
> up  little works of (unacknowledged) fiction, Bruno?

What about Pau. Has he been fully informed????

Correct but you most probably took the quote out of context and what
we were talking about.
I still hold that participating in Est/Forum workshops were useful to
most people.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > See:
>
> > > > >  http://www.landmarkeducation.com/
>
> > > > > (if you can stand the self-righteous "fundamentalist" preachiness and
> > > > > blatant jargon-ridden commercialism)
>
> > > > What are you now shilling for Landmark!!!!!
>
> > > ... as you might detect from my commentary.
>
> > > That web-page provides some discussion points for jargon and "hooking"
> > > people into becoming proselytes. Or have you lost interest in the
> > > hooking process?
>
> > I can't see it myself fair Muse.
>
> Start with (for example) "not only success, but also fulfillment and
> greatness".  Run that phrase past an "advertising-creative" and ask
> her to identify the hooks. Then point out the deflating jargon of "the
> ~possibility~ of ".
>
> > Maybe you could enlighten me by showing me which  jargon and hooking
> > points you are referring to???
>
> Maybe you would learn more by doing the exercise yourself, rather than
> leaning on the overworked droids in advertising as suggested. Even
> though I've already done about 90 percent of the work for you.

Okay so what you are pointing out is Advertising at work in modern
society.
Most business, Brand name companies act in that manner.
SO whats new???

>
> > Please explain the hooking points and how it works.
>
> One thing at a time, Bruno. Let's identify the hooks to our mutual
> satisfaction first.
>
> > I'm sure Ben would also be interested unless he is again LOL
> > at our conversation.
>
> Sure .... but not sure... Make up your mind, Bruno. You might sound
> more forceful and convincing.

Hang on Muse why do I have to be forceful or convincing???

I'm not here to persuade anyone.

I try to play your game and answer some of your questions to the best
of my ability.

Tha'ts it.

You can't handle the truth that most people got some benefit in
attending EST? Forum workshops.

[Serena Nordstrup]

Oh now you ask!

Start with we = you + me. That should do for starters. So back to the
question: do we know why Ben issued a LOL ?

> I am giving you my opinion rightly or wrongly.

I didn't ask for you ~opinion~, Bruno -- I asked whether we know.

> > > But why ask me.
> > > Why not ask  " your good friend "  Ben yourself???
>
> > Because you made the opaque conclusion that Ben's "LOL" constituted
> > some sort of evidence for something or other.
>
> Well it was in my eyes and of  the  members in the group. No one  here
> said otherwise

Rule 81a: silence denotes agreement with Bruno, even if (and
especially if): 1. Bruno hasn't made his views clear. 2. Serena has
called Bruno's claims into question.

> > > > > > > That's a good enough reason to ask you agaain.
>
> > > > > > Even though I'd already answered clearly and unambiguously?
>
> > > Where I missed it.
>
> > Hidden in plain sight...
>
> > > > > > > " Have you been smoking"
>
> > > > > > >   Do you find it easier to ask personal questions
>
> > > > > > > > than to care about the discussion of ~commitment~ to ~transformation~
> > > > > > > > in alt.fan.landmark?
>
> > > > > > > Not at all, however it helps to know who you are talking to.
> > > > > > > In your case a woooonderful, sooooooophisticated, all knowing Muse
> > > > > > > who lives in the heavens.
>
> > > > > > Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
> > > > > > little works of (unacknowledged) fiction?
>
> > > > Who needs to know things when one can much more readily dream up
> > > > little works of (unacknowledged) fiction, Bruno?
>
> Correct.

What do you find correct? Did someone carelessly make a statement?

> Just playing your game.

By whose rules?

> > > You do Muse.
>
> > An "all knowing Muse" needs to know things? - Non sequitur.
>
> > Anyone else need to know things when one can much more readily dream
> > up  little works of (unacknowledged) fiction, Bruno?
>
> What about Pau. Has he been fully informed????

What about Pau?

I'll ask again: Anyone else need to know things when one can much more

readily dream up  little works of (unacknowledged) fiction, Bruno?

I quoted from the context of discussion in alt.fan.landmark of July
2006. The quote gives evidence which calls into question your claim
that "all that has been claimed that participating in the EST?Forum
workshops was useful".

> I still hold that participating in Est/Forum workshops were useful to
> most people.

No doubt you do indeed hold that. But on what grounds?

> > > > > > See:
>
> > > > > >  http://www.landmarkeducation.com/
>
> > > > > > (if you can stand the self-righteous "fundamentalist" preachiness and
> > > > > > blatant jargon-ridden commercialism)
>
> > > > > What are you now shilling for Landmark!!!!!
>
> > > > ... as you might detect from my commentary.
>
> > > > That web-page provides some discussion points for jargon and "hooking"
> > > > people into becoming proselytes. Or have you lost interest in the
> > > > hooking process?
>
> > > I can't see it myself fair Muse.
>
> > Start with (for example) "not only success, but also fulfillment and
> > greatness".  Run that phrase past an "advertising-creative" and ask
> > her to identify the hooks. Then point out the deflating jargon of "the
> > ~possibility~ of ".
>
> > > Maybe you could enlighten me by showing me which  jargon and hooking
> > > points you are referring to???
>
> > Maybe you would learn more by doing the exercise yourself, rather than
> > leaning on the overworked droids in advertising as suggested. Even
> > though I've already done about 90 percent of the work for you.
>
> Okay so what you are pointing out is Advertising at work in modern
> society.
> Most business, Brand name companies act in that manner.
> SO whats new???

We have caught out ~landmark~ so-called ~education~ using hooking and
jargon, and you, Bruno, have become more "enlightened" by recognizing
that. Noteworthy newness indeed!

> > > Please explain the hooking points and how it works.
>
> > One thing at a time, Bruno. Let's identify the hooks to our mutual
> > satisfaction first.
>
> > > I'm sure Ben would also be interested unless he is again LOL
> > > at our conversation.
>
> > Sure .... but not sure... Make up your mind, Bruno. You might sound
> > more forceful and convincing.
>
> Hang on Muse why do I have  to be forceful or convincing???

You don't have to "be forceful or convincing". But as I said, you

"might sound more forceful and convincing".

> I'm not here to persuade anyone.

Fortunately so, given the toils of illogic you have (for some reason)
perpetrated.

> I try to play your game and answer some of your questions to the best
> of my ability.

How can you expect to gain the full ~value~ of ~ transformation ~ if
you answer only some of the questions, leaving your ~education~
~incomplete~?

> Tha'ts it.
>
> You can't handle the truth that most people got some benefit in
> attending EST? Forum workshops.

I just haven't seen the evidence for this alleged "truth".
Testimonials -- yes. Vague emotive claims -- yes. Dodgy ~ statistics~
based on questionable methodology-- sure. Evidence -- not a skerrick.

[Serena Nordstrup]

http://xkcd.com/1176/

[patrick]

i believe i did. i said that if i was a newcomer to the newsgroup i would
read the archives, at least some of it and then u would find the posts
that have been made against me and u would find my posts about many subjects
and then a person could decide for themselves what they think about me.

some would agree with me that landmark is a cult and is nasty.
others would laugh it off and mention how it has helped them
in their lives. others would be offended that landmark wants and expects
many people to take more and more programs for the rest of their lives.

others would hate me for my belief system, "christianity" and say mean
things.

there would be many differening interpretations of who i am.

even though there are many different interprettions there is only one me.

[bentot]

My LOL is amusement at ???serena???'s ridiculous tactics of broadening
the scope of dialog to include more ~orts~ for her/him to gnaw upon
and ridicule...setting up opportunities for more CJ-ing. It's her/his
~game~.

Ridiculous:

absurd, antic, bizarre, comic, comical, contemptible, daffy,
derisory, droll, fantastic, farcical, fool headed, foolish, goofy,
grotesque, harebrained, hilarious, impossible, incredible, jerky,
laughable, ludicrous, nonsensical, nutty, outrageous, preposterous,
risible, sappy, silly, slaphappy, unbelievable, wacky

Just pick one for yourself. I liked "hilarious" (LOL), or "jerky"
(CJ).

And, no, I will not offer evidence or references for my opinion. Don't
like it........lump it.

bentot

[fatladysingshere]

> i believe i did. i said that if i was a newcomer to the newsgroup i would
>
> read the archives, at least some of it and then u would find the posts
>
> that have been made against me and u would find my posts about many subjects
>
> and then a person could decide for themselves what they think about me.

You assign more value in strangers opinions than I ever would.

> some would agree with me that landmark is a cult and is nasty.

Yes, in a group of 6 billion+ people finding agreement for anything, whether it is baseless and irrational or not, is easy to do. Getting agreement that 9/11 and the Holocaust never happened is easy as pie to get on the internet.

> others would laugh it off and mention how it has helped them

Or laugh it off and say you are just making up things and that you are a strange little internet character

> in their lives. others would be offended that landmark wants and expects
> many people to take more and more programs for the rest of their lives.

Yes, kinda like how anyone who sells any product wants the world to buy their product for the rest of their lives. I can't think of one company that does not operate and think that way, can you? Not one.

> others would hate me for my belief system, "christianity" and say mean things.
there would be many differening interpretations of who i am.

> even though there are many different interprettions there is only one me.

As far as i am concerned, your interpretations and opinions, of/about Jinendra Jain the retired Landmark Forum Leader and est trainer, are 100% valid as your personal interpretations and opinions, but only as nterpretations and opinions. I would assign no other value or importance to them.

[patrick]

On Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:26:47 AM UTC-5, fatladysingshere wrote:
> > i believe i did. i said that if i was a newcomer to the newsgroup i would
>
> >
>
> > read the archives, at least some of it and then u would find the posts
>
> >
>
> > that have been made against me and u would find my posts about many subjects
>
> >
>
> > and then a person could decide for themselves what they think about me.
>
>
>
> You assign more value in strangers opinions than I ever would.

its not that i assign more value to them. i do believe right or wrong
they are entitled to their opinion. i may not agree with it but so what.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > some would agree with me that landmark is a cult and is nasty.
>
>
>
> Yes, in a group of 6 billion+ people finding agreement for anything, whether it is baseless and irrational or not, is easy to do. Getting agreement that 9/11 and the Holocaust never happened is easy as pie to get on the internet.

that is true and its easy to find agreement on the landmark cult also.
agreement is easy to find. disagreement is also easy to find.


>
>
>
> > others would laugh it off and others mention how it has helped them

>
>
>
> Or laugh it off and say you are just making up things and that you are a strange little internet character

thats true too. again people can have the interpretation they want.
or...............do people that have become involved in landamrk actually
have free will ? is a for profit first company that works mind control
techniiques on their victims while preaching they dont want, have or not
victims in their vicinity really helping with free thought ?

>
>
>
>
>
> > in their lives. others would be offended that landmark wants and expects
>
> > many people to take more and more programs for the rest of their lives.
>
>
>
> Yes, kinda like how anyone who sells any product wants the world to buy their product for the rest of their lives. I can't think of one company that does not operate and think that way, can you? Not one.

but we are talking about the forum. before u take the forum, they say that
this will empower u for good living or that your life wont be the same after that or they will strip u of your belief system and then give u a new one,
"more of less" ..

did the forum make u feel better about yourself ?

were u 1. unloved or 2. unlovable ?

did u give up your already thinking to join into the family of jinn or shall
we say landamrk.

>
>
>
>
>
> > others would hate me for my belief system, "christianity" and say mean things.
>
> there would be many differening interpretations of who i am.
>
>
>
> > even though there are many different interprettions there is only one me.
>
>
>
> As far as i am concerned, your interpretations and opinions, of/about Jinendra Jain the retired Landmark Forum Leader and est trainer, are 100% valid as your personal interpretations and opinions, but only as nterpretations and opinions. I would assign no other value or importance to them.

heres a hypothetical for u.

if jinn was in fact a bad jinn and was giving out psycological baptisms
in excrement in the danger process would u have a problem with that ?

would u assign it as somones interpretation and nothing more ?

[fatladysingshere]

> that is true and its easy to find agreement on the landmark cult also.
>
> agreement is easy to find. disagreement is also easy to find.

As far as I can tell, people find whatever they are looking for on the internet and in life.

> thats true too. again people can have the interpretation they want. or...............do people that have become involved in landamrk actually have free will ?

Please define what "free will " is Patrick and how you personally measure it in others. Do babies have what you call "free will"? Do teenagers have what you call "free will"? Do mentally handicapped people have what you call "free will"? Do men and woman in prison have what you call "free will"? Do people who have consumed alcohol have what you call "free will"?


> is a for profit first company that works mind control techniques

Bullshit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit


> on their victims

Bullshit

>while preaching they dont want, have or not victims in their vicinity

More Bullshit

> really helping with free thought ?

Is "free will" the same as "free thought"? Please define what you mean by "free thought if you would.

> but we are talking about the forum. before u take the forum, they say that this will empower u for good living or that your life wont be the same after that

Yes something like that is promoted and said

> or they will strip u of your belief system and then give u a new one,

More Bullshit

> did the forum make u feel better about yourself ?

No. TLF does not make anyone feel or do anything. In TLF people come up with new ways of being and thinking for themselves - if they want that. It is designed to provide a place for people to come up with their own solutions, ideas and breakthroughs.

> were u 1. unloved or 2. unlovable ?

Neither

> did u give up your already thinking to join into the family of jinn or shall we say landamrk.

More Bullshit

> heres a hypothetical for u.

No thank-you.

> if jinn was in fact a bad jinn and was giving out psycological baptisms in excrement in the danger process would u have a problem with that ?

More of your trademark crazy Bullshit

[patrick]

On Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:56:19 PM UTC-5, fatladysingshere wrote:
> > that is true and its easy to find agreement on the landmark cult also.
>
> >
>
> > agreement is easy to find. disagreement is also easy to find.
>
>
>
> As far as I can tell, people find whatever they are looking for on the internet and in life.
>
>
>
>
>
> > thats true too. again people can have the interpretation they want. or...............do people that have become involved in landamrk actually have free will ?
>
>
>
> Please define what "free will " is Patrick and how you personally measure it in others. Do babies have what you call "free will"? Do teenagers have what you call "free will"? Do mentally handicapped people have what you call "free will"? Do men and woman in prison have what you call "free will"? Do people who have consumed alcohol have what you call "free will"?

wouldnt it be better to stick to on topic stuff and discuss landmark grads ?

>
>
>
>
>
> > is a for profit first company that works mind control techniques
>
>
>
> Bullshit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit
>
>
>
>
>
> > on their victims
>
>
>
> Bullshit

now now, be nice. if u have been brainwashed and u didnt know it would u want
someone to save u ?

>
>
>
> >while preaching they dont want, have or not victims in their vicinity
>
>
>
> More Bullshit
>
>
>
>
>
> > really helping with free thought ?
>
>
>
> Is "free will" the same as "free thought"? Please define what you mean by "free thought if you would.

in the landmark sense, before u attend a forum some are told and many i assume
that the forum will change your life.


on the other hand right after some of the little parts of the forum people are
told they will lose what they have gained in the forum if they dont take more
programs.

it is a for profit after all.

>
>
>
> > but we are talking about the forum. before u take the forum, they say that this will empower u for good living or that your life wont be the same after that
>
>
>
> Yes something like that is promoted and said
>
>
>
>
>
> > or they will strip u of your belief system and then give u a new one,
>
>
>
> More Bullshit

hey hey, be nice again. they do in fact tell u it will be a roller coaster
ride and in the archive u can find where some of us talk about landmark
ridding u of your already thinking. well if they did that and didnt replace
it landmark already thinking , u wouldnt have any thinking at all.

>
>
>
>
>
> > did the forum make u feel better about yourself ?
>
>
>
> No. TLF does not make anyone feel or do anything. In TLF people come up with new ways of being and thinking for themselves - if they want that. It is designed to provide a place for people to come up with their own solutions, ideas and breakthroughs.
>

can u explain how landmark accomplishes that. i believe its through group
hypnosis, other disagree but i have yet to find a landmark grad that can
explain how its done. i do understand that landmark is a for profit organization
, i understand this.

please explain how it works. or do u take new ways of being on faith, without
knowing how it actually works.

>
>
> > were u 1. unloved or 2. unlovable ?
>
>
>
> Neither

if u recall the forum, u are given two choices, surely u were one or the other ?

>
>
>
>
>
> > did u give up your already thinking to join into the family of jinn or shall we say landamrk.
>
>
>
> More Bullshit
>
>
>
> > heres a hypothetical for u.

u along with countless other grads cant answer this hypothetical question.
tubby flunks hypothericals too.


>
>
>
> No thank-you.
>


try harder. i bet u cant answer.

>
>
>
>
> > if jinn was in fact a bad jinn and was giving out psycological baptisms in excrement in the danger process would u have a problem with that ?

it s a simple question, just answer.

>
>
>
> More of your trademark crazy Bullshit

there is nothing crazy about this unless the landmark grads are just unable
to answer a simple question.

>
>
>
> > would u assign it as somones interpretation and nothing more ?

and heres a part two.

i understand u will not be able to answer. this has meeaning, whether u believe
it or not.




love is all u need.

[fatladysingshere]

> wouldnt it be better to stick to on topic stuff and discuss landmark grads ?

Discussing your definition of "free will" and "free thought" which you mentioned is on topic.

> there is nothing crazy about this unless the landmark grads are just unable to answer a simple question.

Might you define "simple" question? Do you mean play along with your loaded bullshit questions?

> would u assign it as somones interpretation and nothing more ?

Are you referring to your imaginary fantasyland make believe fairy tales?

and heres a part two.

> i understand u will not be able to answer. this has meeaning, whether u believe it or not.

> love is all u need.

It would help me if you would define some of the terms you use over and over, what do you mean by "love"? What is your definition of "love" A "simple question" and easy for you to answer I assume.

[patrick]

love is caring about other people. if u love someone or other people u can love

them.

do u believe this ?

[Serena Nordstrup]

On May 24, 3:26 am, fatladysingshere <toolo...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

> > others would be offended that landmark wants and expects
> > many people to take more and more programs for the rest of their lives.
>
>  Yes, kinda like how anyone who sells any product wants the world to buy their product for the rest of their lives. I can't think of one company that does not operate and think that way, can you? Not one.

Tontines don't operate like that. And many companies segment their
market to maximize profit, rather than wasting time and energy selling
to "the world". The ultimate market research exercise identifies one
single ideal purchaser and unleashes its sales-force only in that
specific direction.

Organisations which aim to sell the idea of ridding the world of
disease X may succeed -- and then wind up with nothing left to sell.
Organisations which aim to preserve and foster species Y may fail if
species Y dies out leaving them nothing to sell.

I once worked with an outfit mandated to wind down over the course of
several decades. I found it refreshing in its defiance of many
standard commercial platitudes. But we can't have people thinking for
themselves and ~creating~ their own rules, can we?

[Serena Nordstrup]

On May 24, 2:45 am, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 May 2013 05:36:07 -0700 (PDT), Serena Nordstrup
>

The ridiculous tactic of quoting someone's own words back at them. The
ridiculous tactic of steering discussion back to rosenbergist idiocies
in alt.fan.landmark

How utterly reprehensible -- and ridiculous.

> to include more ~orts~ for her/him to gnaw upon
> and ridicule...setting up opportunities for more CJ-ing.  It's her/his
> ~game~.
>
> Ridiculous:
>
>  absurd, antic, bizarre, comic, comical, contemptible, daffy,
> derisory, droll, fantastic, farcical, fool headed, foolish, goofy,
> grotesque, harebrained, hilarious, impossible, incredible, jerky,
> laughable, ludicrous, nonsensical, nutty, outrageous, preposterous,
> risible, sappy, silly, slaphappy, unbelievable, wacky
>
> Just pick one for yourself.  I liked "hilarious" (LOL), or "jerky"
> (CJ).

Please may i pick more than one? Please!

> And, no, I will not offer evidence or references for my opinion. Don't
> like it........lump it.

An ~opinion~ with no basis... shoddy foundations ... how long can it
~stand~ ?

[fatladysingshere]

> Tontines don't operate like that. And many companies segment their
>
> market to maximize profit, rather than wasting time and energy selling
>
> to "the world". The ultimate market research exercise identifies one
>
> single ideal purchaser and unleashes its sales-force only in that
>
> specific direction.
>
>
>
> Organisations which aim to sell the idea of ridding the world of
>
> disease X may succeed -- and then wind up with nothing left to sell.
>
> Organisations which aim to preserve and foster species Y may fail if
>
> species Y dies out leaving them nothing to sell.
>
>
>
> I once worked with an outfit mandated to wind down over the course of
>
> several decades. I found it refreshing in its defiance of many
>
> standard commercial platitudes. But we can't have people thinking for
>
> themselves and ~creating~ their own rules, can we?

That these are unheard of and aberrations and exceptions only goes to prove the rule. again, landmark remains in the company of every other large north american business and is practising what is considered the status quo.

customers say that landmark education promotes people thinking for themselves and ~creating~ their own rules, so I assume you admire them for that. unless you are into only cherry picking reviews from dissatisfied customers whee you can find them. lets talk about your research methods

[bentot]

:)

>
>> And, no, I will not offer evidence or references for my opinion. Don't
>> like it........lump it.
>
>An ~opinion~ with no basis... shoddy foundations ... how long can it
>~stand~ ?

Shall I assume you lumped it?

[patrick]

i would bet that that the branch dividians would have said that they were
thinking for themselves. i would say that isnt the truth.

and then theres this.

people put their minds in the hands of a for profit organization.
do u believe a company with no truth would put your mind above their
bottom line.

sad state.

[fatladysingshere]

> i would bet that that the branch dividians would have said that they were thinking for themselves. i would say that isnt the truth.

So I can understand your POV on "free will" better, can you reply to these questions asked earlier? Do you perceive that babies have what you call "free will"? Do teenagers have what you call "free will"? Do mentally handicapped people have what you call "free will"? Do men and woman in prison have what you call "free will"? Do people who have consumed alcohol have what you call "free will"?

> and then theres this.
people put their minds in the hands of a for profit organization.

How exactly does one put one's mind in another's hands? Have you ever done this? I have not and am not sure I could if I wanted to. The metaphor is a popular one but what does it mean? Are all our minds in some other person's hands? Are our children's minds in the school's hands? Are our minds in our employers hands?

> do u believe a company with no truth would put your mind above their bottom line.

What company has no "truth"? Or for that mater, what company has "truth"? What does that even mean? You talk weird man. Landmark Education has a point of view that is presented as a point of view and not as a fact, that at times, it can be found to be useful , for an individual to look through a made up frame or lens that life has no inherent fixed meaning that everyone agrees on all of the time. It is only useful when it is . It is not something to believe, it is just an idea and is and has always been presented as such.


> sad state.

Are you "sad"? Like crying and mournful? Seriously?

[patrick]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 10:38:11 AM UTC-5, fatladysingshere wrote:
> > i would bet that that the branch dividians would have said that they were thinking for themselves. i would say that isnt the truth.
>
>
>
>
>
> So I can understand your POV on "free will" better, can you reply to these questions asked earlier? Do you perceive that babies have what you call "free will"? Do teenagers have what you call "free will"? Do mentally handicapped people have what you call "free will"? Do men and woman in prison have what you call "free will"? Do people who have consumed alcohol have what you call "free will"?

i would say that all of the above have some form of free will.

after people become grads, they are expected to take more courses.

before u take the forum landmark people tell u that it will rock your
world. that it will strip u of your belief system and then give u a
new one.

then during the forum they tell u that u will lose all that u have
"learned" and need to take another program that is 700 dollars, or it
used to be 700 and if u sign up immediately u get a 100 dollars off.

what a joke.

this is having i both ways, of course most people that take the forum
dont see it because they have been mind controlled or manipulated if u
prefer.

>
>
>
>
>
> > and then theres this.
>
> people put their minds in the hands of a for profit organization.
>
>
>
> How exactly does one put one's mind in another's hands? Have you ever done this? I have not and am not sure I could if I wanted to. The metaphor is a popular one but what does it mean? Are all our minds in some other person's hands? Are our children's minds in the school's hands? Are our minds in our employers hands?

we need to be careful who we pay for enlightenment, wouldnt u agree ?

the way one puts their mind in anothers hands is to take the forum.

that was easy.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > do u believe a company with no truth would put your mind above their bottom line.
>
>
>
> What company has no "truth"? Or for that mater, what company has "truth"? What does that even mean? You talk weird man. Landmark Education has a point of view that is presented as a point of view and not as a fact, that at times, it can be found to be useful , for an individual to look through a made up frame or lens that life has no inherent fixed meaning that everyone agrees on all of the time. It is only useful when it is . It is not something to believe, it is just an idea and is and has always been presented as such.

most religion strives for truth. landamrk has none.

>
>
>
>
>
> > sad state.
>
>
>
> Are you "sad"? Like crying and mournful? Seriously?

when u look around and find that in one small way that the landamrk cult
grads cannot answer a simple question . and i am talking i have asked many
people on this newsgroup and many many more in person that are grads, not
a single one can answer the hypothetical question.

its quite fasincating when u stop and think about it, not a sing le one.

its a sad state for the people that are connected to the cult. i am not
sad as in weeping and mournful.

[Serena Nordstrup]

On May 25, 2:41 am, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 04:31:38 -0700 (PDT), Serena Nordstrup
>

Assume whatever you like. Now to return to the question: how long can
an ~opinion~ with shoddy foundations ~stand~?

[Serena Nordstrup]

On May 25, 12:49 am, fatladysingshere <toolo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Tontines don't operate like that. And many companies segment their
>
> > market to maximize profit, rather than wasting time and energy selling
>
> > to "the world". The ultimate market research exercise identifies one
>
> > single ideal purchaser and unleashes its sales-force only in that
>
> > specific direction.
>
> > Organisations which aim to sell the idea of ridding the world of
>
> > disease X  may succeed -- and then wind up with nothing left to sell.
>
> > Organisations which aim to preserve and foster species Y may fail if
>
> > species Y dies out leaving them nothing to sell.
>
> > I once worked with an outfit mandated to wind down over the course of
>
> > several decades. I found it refreshing in its defiance of many
>
> > standard commercial platitudes. But we can't have people thinking for
>
> > themselves and ~creating~ their own rules, can we?
>
> That these are unheard of and aberrations and exceptions only goes to prove the rule.

I don't know what "rule" you've allegedly proven here. My several
examples - however aberrant and exceptional - do call into question
your suggestion that "anyone who sells any product wants the world to

buy their product for the rest of their lives".

> again, landmark remains  in the company of every other large north american business

If "every [...] large north american" ~business~ marches in lock-step,
what became of innovation and ~creativity~? This may help explain the
rise of Asian tigers.

> and is practising what is considered the status quo.

"Considered the status quo" by whom? Have we put our collective
finger on the cause of the anti-globalization movement: unthinking
North American arrogance?

> customers say that landmark education promotes  people thinking for themselves and ~creating~ their own rules, so I assume you admire them for that.

The brainwashees of so-called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~ do
indeed make the claim that the org promotes independent thinking and
acting. I don't admire them for saying what some ~leader~ has taught
them to say. I simply wonder why so many of them talk and behave like
unthinking clones of each other. And I await some evidence of their
alleged independent and ~creative~ thought. A few Pulitzers and a
couple of Nobel prizes might encourage me to re-assess what I
otherwise see as mere assiduous propaganda.

> unless you are into only cherry picking reviews from dissatisfied customers whee you can find them. lets talk about your research methods

My "research methods" consist principally of asking for evidence. Do
you detect some methodological flaw?

[fatladysingshere]

>I don't know what

There is much you do not know = the life you have and the things you say.

> "rule" you've allegedly proven here. My several examples - however aberrant and exceptional - do call into question

There are those that caLl the Holocaust into question, so what?

> your suggestion that "anyone who sells any product wants the world to buy their product for the rest of their lives".

You can argue this if you want. I am sure there is nothing you would not argue like you do in this group to display what an intellectual giant you are, I am not impressed, but keep at it hun

>If "every [...] large north american" ~business~ marches in lock-step,

Do they do this? what is this marching "in lock-step, " all about?

>what became of innovation and ~creativity~?

That is a great question. For once you have asked something worthy of discussion.

>This may help explain the rise of Asian tigers.

Displaying that great intellect again?

> "Considered the status quo" by whom?

From your point of view, is there such a thing as "status quo" and who are ever the enforcers of it? After we clarify that, we can continue on with this discussion in the direction you want to take it.

>Have we put our collective finger on the cause of the anti-globalization movement: unthinking North American arrogance?

Who is the "we" you refer to?


>The brainwashees

You think you are not "brainwashed" but others are? Aren't you special.

> of so-called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~

so called "so called"

> do indeed make the claim that the org

> scientology jargon?

> promotes independent thinking and acting.

Yes they do.

>I don't admire them for saying what some ~leader~ has taught them to say.

So you do not admire people who say what others have taught them to say? That is interesting and a big topic. Can we talk about that?

>I simply wonder why so many of them talk and behave like unthinking clones of each other.

You talking about the human race here or what? You must be.

>And I await some evidence of their alleged independent and ~creative~ thought.

You and I both know that no amount of "evidence" would satisfy an internet troll like yourself on on a crusade to undermine a target.

>A few Pulitzers and a couple of Nobel prizes might encourage me to re-assess what I otherwise see as mere assiduous propaganda.

Nah, you would just invalidate and cast doubt on those prizes and institutions if they in any way were in any way linked to Landmark Education.

>My "research methods" consist principally of asking for evidence. Do you detect some methodological flaw?

Yes, you exclude the lopsided biases and distortions of the researcher, yourself.

[patrick]

hey fatlady, dont forget to answer this post,

[fatladysingshere]

> hey fatlady, dont forget to answer this post,

You are the manager of my life now?

[patrick]

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 7:38:40 PM UTC-5, fatladysingshere wrote:
> > hey fatlady, dont forget to answer this post,
>
>
>
> You are the manager of my life now?

geesh, i think u need an attitude adjustment. just chill.

and reply. i assume u came here to engage people, if u did , do it.

[fatladysingshere]

> geesh, i think u need an attitude adjustment. just chill.

> and reply. i assume u came here to engage people, if u did , do it.

you are very controlling. you some kind of guru mind controller? I do not appreciate the pressure tactics.

[bentot]

Thank you. Done.

> Now to return to the question: how long can
>an ~opinion~ with shoddy foundations ~stand~?

As long as this newsgroup keeps it in the archives. After which it's
just insignificant vapor.

[Serena Nordstrup]

On 26 May, 16:27, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 21:51:24 -0700 (PDT), Serena Nordstrup
>

Different rules may apply outside alt.fan.landmark

[Serena Nordstrup]

On 26 May, 05:37, fatladysingshere <toolo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I don't know what
>
> There is much you do not know

Indeed -- hence the value of discussion as a knowledge-broadener.

> = the life you have and  the things you say.

Someone else once suggested that I had one of those "life" thingies.
never managed to convince me, though. And it never had any relevance
to discussing so-called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~.

> > "rule" you've allegedly proven here. My several examples - however aberrant and exceptional - do call into question
>
> There are those that caLl the Holocaust into question, so what?

Calling into question can help establish or disestablish facts.
Thinking of your contention that "anyone who sells any product wants
the world to buy their product for the rest of their lives", I tried
to think of examples. Does Ralph's Pretty Good Grocery in Lake
Wobegon, Minnesota, have plans for a chain of franchises the length
and breadth of Alaska? I don't think so. The Morgan Stanley private
wealth management division doesn't market to me -- perhaps because
they suspect my net worth does not exceed $10 million. Walmart hasn't
taken over retail in the Falkland Islands last time I looked, either.
The closest I could think of (in North America) to an org which sells
a product and which "wants the world to buy their product for the rest
of their lives" -- Mexican drug cartels -- may not want to hook those
incapable of generating payment. (Just as so-called ~landmark~ so-
called ~education~ claims not to want potential customers to do the so-
called ~landmark~ so-called ~forum~ unless they consider themselves
successful...)

> > your suggestion that "anyone who sells any product wants the world to buy their product for the rest of their lives".
>
> You can argue this if you want. I am sure there is nothing you would not argue like you do in this group to display what an  intellectual giant you are, I am not impressed, but keep at it hun

You made the claim that "anyone who sells any product wants the world
to buy their product for the rest of their lives". I merely express
doubts about the accuracy of your claim.

> >If "every [...] large north american" ~business~ marches in lock-step,
>
> Do they do this? what is this marching "in lock-step, " all about?

For your next claim, you wrote: "landmark remains in the company of
every other large north american business". Recall "company" as a
military term?

> >what became of innovation and ~creativity~?
>
> That is a great question. For once you have asked something worthy of discussion.
>
> >This may help explain the rise of Asian tigers.
>
> Displaying that great intellect again?

Just drawing analogies and corollaries to sharpen my "booby-prize"
understanding.

> > "Considered the status quo" by whom?
>
> From your point of view,  is there such a thing as "status quo" and who are ever the enforcers of it?

Irrelevant and irrelevant. You introduced the notion of someone
(undefined) considering (not enforcing) some status quo when you
wrote: "landmark remains in the company of every other large north
american business and is practising what is considered the status
quo". So I want to check who you had in mind as a status-quo-
considerer. My point of view doesn't come into it.

> After we clarify that, we can continue on with this discussion in the direction you want to take it.
>
> >Have we put our collective finger on the cause of the anti-globalization movement: unthinking North American arrogance?
>
> Who is the "we" you refer to?

You and I in discussion. ~Creative~, huh?

> >The brainwashees
>
> You think you are not "brainwashed" but others are? Aren't you special.

Here I address the matter of the brainwashees of so-called ~landmark
so-called ~education~. Whether I fall into that category or into some
other category of brainwashees or into no category of brainwashees has
no relevance. Dismiss it as a mere distraction from the subject in
hand, which I summarise as the" brainwashees of so-called ~landmark so-
called ~education~" where you summarised them somewaht less precisely
as "customers".

> > of so-called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~
>
> so called "so called"

Precisely.

> > do indeed make the claim that the org
> > scientology jargon?

Among other uses. Think UN.org for example.

> > promotes independent thinking and acting.
>
> Yes they do.
>
> >I don't admire them for saying what some ~leader~ has taught them to say.
>
> So you do not admire people who say what others have taught them to say?

Non sequitur. I wrote: "I don't admire them for saying what some
~leader~ has taught them to say". I did not even write "I don't admire
those who say what others have taught them to say".

> That is interesting and a big topic. Can we talk about that?

It has no immediate relevance to this thread. By all means start
another thread somewhere.

> >I simply wonder why so many of them talk and behave like unthinking clones of each other.
>
> You talking about the human race here or what? You must be.

If you regard proselytes of so-called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~
as a subset of the human race...

> >And I await some evidence of their alleged independent and ~creative~ thought.
>
> You and I both know that no amount of "evidence" would satisfy an internet troll like  yourself on on a crusade to undermine a target.

Good evidence could quash any alleged "crusade" in short order. Where
do I find such evidence?

> >A few Pulitzers and a couple of Nobel prizes might encourage me to re-assess what I otherwise see as mere assiduous propaganda.
>
> Nah, you would just invalidate and cast doubt on those prizes and institutions if they in any way were in any way  linked to Landmark Education.

But since the situation does not even arise....

> >My "research methods" consist  principally of asking for evidence. Do you detect some methodological flaw?
>
> Yes, you exclude the lopsided biases and distortions of the researcher, yourself.

Straight answers to the questions should sort that out by providing
evidence. If available.

[bentot]

Or not......

[patrick]

hey fatlady, how fat are u .

[bentot]

fatlady may have moved on after dropping the lardass bomb.

bentot