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Caligari
Jan 20, 2013, 3:02:01 PM1/20/13
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http://losangeles.broadwayworld.com/article/Andrea-Kuchlewskas-COMPLETE-Opens-223-at-the-Matrix-Theatre-20130117
===========
Andrea Kuchlewska's COMPLETE Opens 2/23 at the Matrix Theatre
FeedbackPrintE-mail
Two obsessive linguists and a nine-year-old zealot meet head-on with
the magnetic leader of an est-like group training seminar in Complete,
a new, fast-paced comedy by Andrea Kuchlewska opening February 23 at
the Matrix Theatre in West Hollywood.
Jennifer Chambers (Play Dates at the Asylum, The Muscles in Our Toesat
the El Portal) directs the West Coast premiere, which stars
MeredithBishop (L.A. Drama Critics Circle Award for Eleemosynary, four
seasons on Nickelodeon's The Secret World of Alex Mack); Scott Kruse
(South Street at the Pasadena Playhouse, When Garbo Talks at
International City Theater), Scott Victor Nelson (Build at the Geffen
Playhouse, narrator on TLC's documentary series My Crazy Obsession)
and nine-year-oldHannah Victoria Stock (soon-to-be-released feature
The Ganzfeld Experiment, L.A. Opera's The Two Foscari).
Complete is a comic, time-splitting wrangle over the power and
perversion of language. When Eve (Bishop) finds out that Micah (Kruse)
is doing "The Training," she risks their careers, their relationship
and their safety to prove just how destructive the notion of self-
creation can be.
"Complete is inspired by both the language of est and the scientific
study of syntax and semantics," explained Kuchlewska in an interview.
"I did theest training at age nine. The use of language in that
subculture was specific and differed in important ways from the
English I had been speaking up until then. This was a potent
combination for me as a child-using language to empower myself, but
also being confused at times by what I and others were saying. It
forever changed the way I think and how I speak."
Developed by Werner Erhard, est is a system of experiential philosophy
that was popular in the 1970s and '80s and was accused by some of
being a cult. Inspired by her childhood experience and aided by the
deeper understanding of language she gained as a linguistics major,
Kuchlewska constructs a fictional "Training," a world in which phrases
like "I intend to create a parking space" and "You can create yourself
being any way you want to be" are normal statements, even in the mouth
of a child.
As a graduate of and former coach at the Ford Institute for
Transformational Training, Jennifer Chambers brings an insider's
understanding to the project.
"There is a very specific language that the self-help industry uses,
and it can be viewed as either very helpful or very manipulative," she
says. "I want to go back and explore that world now that I have some
distance from it."
A finalist for the Princess Grace Award, Complete was developed in the
Z Magic Monday reading series at Magic Theatre in San Francisco, in
the Bay Area Playwrights Festival and at The Z Space Studio, where
Andrea Kuchlewska is an artist in residence. It was read at The Barrow
Group Theatre Company in New York prior to a production at FringeNYC
2009, where it was labeled a "Critic's Pick" byBackstage and
subsequently selected for the FringeNYC Encore Series.
Set design for Complete is by Joel Daavid; lighting design is by
Michael Gend; costume design is by Sharell Martin; sound design is by
John Zalewski; production stage manager is Laura Rin; casting is by
Michael Donovan Casting; and Racquel Lehrman, Theatre Planners
produces.
Andrea Kuchlewska is currently under commission at Women's Project
where she is also an alumna of the 2010-2012 Playwrights Lab. Her
other plays include Human Fruit Bowl (soloNOVA Arts Festival, NYC;
Prague Fringe Festival, winner Creative Award for best production;
Amsterdam Fringe Festival; Hong Kong Microfest) and the
collaboratively created We Play for the Gods (Women's Project, NYC).
Andrea's work has also been developed or produced by The Barrow Group
and Safe Mode Productions (NYC) and in San Francisco at Z Space, The
Marsh, Venue 9 and Climate Theatre, among others. Andrea has received
a Theatre Bay Area CA$H Grant, the Tournesol Residency for Emerging
Playwrights, and was a finalist for the Princess Grace Award. She has
a BA in Linguistics from U.C. Santa Cruz and an MFA in Playwriting
from San Francisco State University.
Jennifer Chambers directing credits include Play Dates at the Asylum
Theatre (L.A. Times "Critic's Choice"); the world premiere of Stephen
Belber's The Muscles in Our Toes at the El Portal; Yog Sothoth, The
Third Best Debater and Here to Serve You at San Pedro's Little Fish
Theatre; and Suzan Lori Park's 365 Play/365 Days at Berkeley Repertory
Theatre. She has assisted Jonathan Moscone on Cal Shakespeare's
production of Man and Superman and Liz Diamond on Catherine
Treischman's Crooked at the Women's Project Theatre. She was the
assistant director of the Piedmont Children's Theatre and has directed
autobiographical theater pieces at the Living Arts Center in Berkeley,
California. She is a professional actress who has performed on
Broadway, has numerous regional credits, and has written and performed
two autobiographical solo pieces, Choices at the Marsh Theatre and
Mine at the California Institute of Integral Studies. She has an
undergraduate degree in theater arts from Northwestern University and
a master's degree in counseling psychology with a concentration in
drama therapy from The California Institute of Integral Studies.
Complete opens on February 23 and continues through March 30, Fridays
and Saturdays @ 8 pm and Sundays @ 7 pm, exceptSunday, February 24
which is @ 2 pm. Two low-priced preview performances take place on
Thursday, February 21 and Friday, February 22 @ 8 pm. General
admission is $25.00; full-time students with ID are $15; previews are
$12.50. The Matrix Theatre is located at 7657 Melrose Avenue, Los
Angeles, CA 90046 (west of Stanley Ave., between Fairfax and La Brea).
For reservations and information, call323-960-7822 or go to
www.plays411.com/complete.
===========
===========
Andrea Kuchlewska's COMPLETE Opens 2/23 at the Matrix Theatre
FeedbackPrintE-mail
Two obsessive linguists and a nine-year-old zealot meet head-on with
the magnetic leader of an est-like group training seminar in Complete,
a new, fast-paced comedy by Andrea Kuchlewska opening February 23 at
the Matrix Theatre in West Hollywood.
Jennifer Chambers (Play Dates at the Asylum, The Muscles in Our Toesat
the El Portal) directs the West Coast premiere, which stars
MeredithBishop (L.A. Drama Critics Circle Award for Eleemosynary, four
seasons on Nickelodeon's The Secret World of Alex Mack); Scott Kruse
(South Street at the Pasadena Playhouse, When Garbo Talks at
International City Theater), Scott Victor Nelson (Build at the Geffen
Playhouse, narrator on TLC's documentary series My Crazy Obsession)
and nine-year-oldHannah Victoria Stock (soon-to-be-released feature
The Ganzfeld Experiment, L.A. Opera's The Two Foscari).
Complete is a comic, time-splitting wrangle over the power and
perversion of language. When Eve (Bishop) finds out that Micah (Kruse)
is doing "The Training," she risks their careers, their relationship
and their safety to prove just how destructive the notion of self-
creation can be.
"Complete is inspired by both the language of est and the scientific
study of syntax and semantics," explained Kuchlewska in an interview.
"I did theest training at age nine. The use of language in that
subculture was specific and differed in important ways from the
English I had been speaking up until then. This was a potent
combination for me as a child-using language to empower myself, but
also being confused at times by what I and others were saying. It
forever changed the way I think and how I speak."
Developed by Werner Erhard, est is a system of experiential philosophy
that was popular in the 1970s and '80s and was accused by some of
being a cult. Inspired by her childhood experience and aided by the
deeper understanding of language she gained as a linguistics major,
Kuchlewska constructs a fictional "Training," a world in which phrases
like "I intend to create a parking space" and "You can create yourself
being any way you want to be" are normal statements, even in the mouth
of a child.
As a graduate of and former coach at the Ford Institute for
Transformational Training, Jennifer Chambers brings an insider's
understanding to the project.
"There is a very specific language that the self-help industry uses,
and it can be viewed as either very helpful or very manipulative," she
says. "I want to go back and explore that world now that I have some
distance from it."
A finalist for the Princess Grace Award, Complete was developed in the
Z Magic Monday reading series at Magic Theatre in San Francisco, in
the Bay Area Playwrights Festival and at The Z Space Studio, where
Andrea Kuchlewska is an artist in residence. It was read at The Barrow
Group Theatre Company in New York prior to a production at FringeNYC
2009, where it was labeled a "Critic's Pick" byBackstage and
subsequently selected for the FringeNYC Encore Series.
Set design for Complete is by Joel Daavid; lighting design is by
Michael Gend; costume design is by Sharell Martin; sound design is by
John Zalewski; production stage manager is Laura Rin; casting is by
Michael Donovan Casting; and Racquel Lehrman, Theatre Planners
produces.
Andrea Kuchlewska is currently under commission at Women's Project
where she is also an alumna of the 2010-2012 Playwrights Lab. Her
other plays include Human Fruit Bowl (soloNOVA Arts Festival, NYC;
Prague Fringe Festival, winner Creative Award for best production;
Amsterdam Fringe Festival; Hong Kong Microfest) and the
collaboratively created We Play for the Gods (Women's Project, NYC).
Andrea's work has also been developed or produced by The Barrow Group
and Safe Mode Productions (NYC) and in San Francisco at Z Space, The
Marsh, Venue 9 and Climate Theatre, among others. Andrea has received
a Theatre Bay Area CA$H Grant, the Tournesol Residency for Emerging
Playwrights, and was a finalist for the Princess Grace Award. She has
a BA in Linguistics from U.C. Santa Cruz and an MFA in Playwriting
from San Francisco State University.
Jennifer Chambers directing credits include Play Dates at the Asylum
Theatre (L.A. Times "Critic's Choice"); the world premiere of Stephen
Belber's The Muscles in Our Toes at the El Portal; Yog Sothoth, The
Third Best Debater and Here to Serve You at San Pedro's Little Fish
Theatre; and Suzan Lori Park's 365 Play/365 Days at Berkeley Repertory
Theatre. She has assisted Jonathan Moscone on Cal Shakespeare's
production of Man and Superman and Liz Diamond on Catherine
Treischman's Crooked at the Women's Project Theatre. She was the
assistant director of the Piedmont Children's Theatre and has directed
autobiographical theater pieces at the Living Arts Center in Berkeley,
California. She is a professional actress who has performed on
Broadway, has numerous regional credits, and has written and performed
two autobiographical solo pieces, Choices at the Marsh Theatre and
Mine at the California Institute of Integral Studies. She has an
undergraduate degree in theater arts from Northwestern University and
a master's degree in counseling psychology with a concentration in
drama therapy from The California Institute of Integral Studies.
Complete opens on February 23 and continues through March 30, Fridays
and Saturdays @ 8 pm and Sundays @ 7 pm, exceptSunday, February 24
which is @ 2 pm. Two low-priced preview performances take place on
Thursday, February 21 and Friday, February 22 @ 8 pm. General
admission is $25.00; full-time students with ID are $15; previews are
$12.50. The Matrix Theatre is located at 7657 Melrose Avenue, Los
Angeles, CA 90046 (west of Stanley Ave., between Fairfax and La Brea).
For reservations and information, call323-960-7822 or go to
www.plays411.com/complete.
===========
tubby
Jan 21, 2013, 7:44:52 AM1/21/13
to
On Jan 21, 7:02 am, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://losangeles.broadwayworld.com/article/Andrea-Kuchlewskas-COMPLE...
Sounds interesting.
Cheers
> http://losangeles.broadwayworld.com/article/Andrea-Kuchlewskas-COMPLE...
Cheers
Caligari
Jan 21, 2013, 10:32:10 AM1/21/13
to
-- C
Ellen
Feb 9, 2013, 7:26:28 PM2/9/13
to
On Jan 20, 12:02 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://losangeles.broadwayworld.com/article/Andrea-Kuchlewskas-COMPLE...
>
> http://losangeles.broadwayworld.com/article/Andrea-Kuchlewskas-COMPLE...
>
"program" and attempt to deconstruct the "perversion." (One might
hope a reasonablly intelligent person might start a few minutes after
they exited the ballroom but, at age nine, I suspect they got their
hooks in deep.) I imagine her pursuit of understanding
(deprogramming) is what led her to linguistics, though probably there
are just as many who are so intoxicated by the dream of power to
~create their own realities~ that they study linguistics just to
propel themselves and their prospects over and above the amateur,
laughable level of Werner Erhard's trippy ~transformation.~
"Complete is inspired by both the language of est and the scientific
study of syntax and semantics," explained Kuchlewska in an interview.
subculture was specific and differed in important ways from the
English I had been speaking up until then. This was a potent
combination for me as a child-using language to empower myself, but
also being confused at times by what I and others were saying. It
forever changed the way I think and how I speak."
Developed by Werner Erhard, est is a system of experiential philosophy
that was popular in the 1970s and '80s and was accused by some of
being a cult. Inspired by her childhood experience and aided by the
deeper understanding of language she gained as a linguistics major,
Kuchlewska constructs a fictional "Training," a world in which phrases
like "I intend to create a parking space" and "You can create yourself
being any way you want to be" are normal statements, even in the mouth
of a child...."
English I had been speaking up until then. This was a potent
combination for me as a child-using language to empower myself, but
also being confused at times by what I and others were saying. It
forever changed the way I think and how I speak."
Developed by Werner Erhard, est is a system of experiential philosophy
that was popular in the 1970s and '80s and was accused by some of
being a cult. Inspired by her childhood experience and aided by the
deeper understanding of language she gained as a linguistics major,
Kuchlewska constructs a fictional "Training," a world in which phrases
like "I intend to create a parking space" and "You can create yourself
being any way you want to be" are normal statements, even in the mouth
I wonder if her curiosity was piqued enough to pursue the
scientological roots of these silly notions. Do you think anyone
pointed out to her that ~creating parking spaces~ is right out of
ElRon's playbook?
Ellen
Caligari
Feb 10, 2013, 3:02:43 PM2/10/13
to
Werner is a proud thief.
Ellen
Feb 10, 2013, 5:52:54 PM2/10/13
to
But proud of ElRon as his ~Source?~ That takes some real chutzpah.
Even the "notion" of ~complete,~ ~completion,~ or ~completeness~ is
part of ElRon's schtick. Do you suppose Landmarkers still run around
asking people, "Are you complete with that?"
Ellen
Caligari
Feb 10, 2013, 8:23:43 PM2/10/13
to
==========
I have a lot of feeling for Ron Hubbard. His genius has not been
sufficiently acknowledged.
* Interview with William Warren Bartley, cited in — Bartley, William
Warren (1978). Werner Erhard: the Transformation of a Man: the
Founding of est. New York: Clarkson N. Potter, Inc.. p. 156. ISBN
0-517-53502-5.
==========
Ellen
Feb 11, 2013, 1:24:00 PM2/11/13
to
>
> read more »
~Experiential Philosophy!~
ElRon called his nonsense "Applied Religious Philosophy."
Gee...
So many philosophers; so little philosophy. Or such pathetic
philosophy.
The apparent importance of the "notion" they call ~complete,~ which
has had enough impact on the author that she titled her play with it.
I guess it's something akin to what is currently referred to as
"closure," another vague and misguided notion that one can bring about
an end to bad feelings or bad memories with some sort of action,
technique, or ~technology.~ Some con-artist or another has been
selling potions 'n' notions to do this since men walked upright. And
made big bucks, to boot. I'll just betcha Werner is tipping his hat
to ElRon as we speak, now that he's managed to spit-shine his "legacy"
with some tired-out tricks that only work on his devoted followers,
whom he's managed to scam for a lifetime, in some cases. How sad is
that.
Ellen
Ellen
Tom Jones
Feb 11, 2013, 3:22:17 PM2/11/13
to
> Gee...
>
> So many philosophers; so little philosophy. Or such pathetic philosophy.
to be so much smarter than those you intellectually tower above?
> The apparent importance of the "notion" they call ~complete,~ which
> has had enough impact on the author that she titled her play with it.
do you just make stuff up that sounds good to your ear?
> I guess
Anyone lining up to hear or paying you for your "guesses" these days?
Which university do you present your brilliant "guesses" at?
> it's something akin to what is currently referred to as
> "closure," another vague and misguided notion that one can bring about
> an end to bad feelings or bad memories with some sort of action,
> technique, or ~technology.~
and others lives are more valid proven or superior to the terms other
choose to lean on and use to describe their lives and other's lives.
Again how did yo get to be so superior to all those people?
> Some con-artist or another has been
> selling potions 'n' notions to do this since men walked upright.
spouting your own and supporting none of it with facts.
> And made big bucks, to boot.
resent others make $ from their efforts to make $?
> "I'll just betcha"
Are your "betchas" of the same high quality as your "guesses"?
> Werner is tipping his hat to ElRon as we speak,
confuse with reality.
> "now that he's managed to spit-shine his "legacy"
confuse with reality.
> with some tired-out tricks that only work on his devoted followers,
> whom he's managed to scam for a lifetime, in some cases. How sad is
> that.
companies and a long list of intelligent hard working professionals
and people that most people respect and aspire to be, and the
thousands, maybe millions of new people around the world being exposed
to the ideas associated with Werner Erhard?
> Ellen
patrick
Feb 11, 2013, 7:49:36 PM2/11/13
to
but not if u keep running brain interference to stop u from doing so.
i will learn something from u im sure.
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 12, 2013, 4:12:10 AM2/12/13
to
On Feb 12, 9:22 am, Tom Jones <tomtomstroubl...@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>
> You talking about Harvard and other esteemed universities, fortune 500
> companies and a long list of intelligent hard working professionals
> and people that most people respect and aspire to be, and the
> thousands, maybe millions of new people around the world being exposed
> to the ideas associated with Werner Erhard?
If someone associates ideas with Jack Rosenberg, that represents a
triumph of the marketing of stolen and re-hashed gobbledegook amongst
left-over nostalgia-buffs out of the last century. If thousands (or
even millions) of folk encounter this Good News, we have to explain
why growth in the numbers of rosenbergists stutters and falls so much,
why ~landmark~ offices close and why other memes eclipse rosenbergism
so readily...
<Snip>
> You talking about Harvard and other esteemed universities, fortune 500
> companies and a long list of intelligent hard working professionals
> and people that most people respect and aspire to be, and the
> thousands, maybe millions of new people around the world being exposed
> to the ideas associated with Werner Erhard?
triumph of the marketing of stolen and re-hashed gobbledegook amongst
left-over nostalgia-buffs out of the last century. If thousands (or
even millions) of folk encounter this Good News, we have to explain
why growth in the numbers of rosenbergists stutters and falls so much,
why ~landmark~ offices close and why other memes eclipse rosenbergism
so readily...
Tom Jones
Feb 12, 2013, 11:02:36 AM2/12/13
to
> If someone associates ideas with Jack Rosenberg,
that people associate with Werner Erhard. It is why you are trolling
this fan page, because you associate this topic and all it includes
with Werner Erhard.
> that represents a triumph of the marketing
has any success at all, could be said to be a "triumph of marketing"
or a failure of marketing.
> of stolen and re-hashed gobbledegook
think you have uttered a single original thought or jab or clever
remark, you are kidding yourself. It can be found elsewhere, You want
to know where? Go look for yourself or go piss up a rope which ever
you wish.
> amongst left-over nostalgia-buffs out of the last century.
> If thousands (or even millions) of folk encounter
> this Good News,
What is this"Good News" gobbledegook you are marketing here? You
talking about King James Bible or some other version of the Bible?
> we have to explain
"we have to" says who? Who is the "we" you are talking about?
> why growth in the numbers of rosenbergists stutters and falls
All business ebb and flow, do you live in a monastery away from cities
and thee world? You do own a computer yes? Google Walmart or any
large business and the word closure and then come back and we can
talk. Or not.
>so much,
what do you mean by "so much"? Do you have any statistics?
> why ~landmark~ offices close
Successful business close for a variety of reasons, Starbucks have
closed stores that were not making $ or it was determined by owners
that they were being mismanaged or something was not up to the
standard, apple closed stores in new orleans because of the hurricane,
do you live under a rock bro? Adapting and expanding and contracting
are all part of a large business making it's way. What is permanent in
our world?
> and why other memes eclipse rosenbergism so readily...
Ellen
Feb 12, 2013, 4:21:26 PM2/12/13
to
On Feb 11, 12:22 pm, Tom Jones <tomtomstroubl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Gee...
>
> > So many philosophers; so little philosophy. Or such pathetic philosophy.
>
> Do you look down on all so called "philosophy" Ellen? How did you get
> to be so much smarter than those you intellectually tower above?
Do you like philosophy? Are you curious about philosophy? Why not
> > Gee...
>
> > So many philosophers; so little philosophy. Or such pathetic philosophy.
>
> Do you look down on all so called "philosophy" Ellen? How did you get
> to be so much smarter than those you intellectually tower above?
take a beginning college course, or community college course, for that
matter. (Where they might also help you with your choice of pronouns
so that you sound, at least slightly, educated.) You'd do better than
the back-of-the-cereal-box ~philosophy~ served up at Landmark. And
you'd probably be immune from the con-artists who pass themselves off
as "philosophers." Pay attention and take notes.
> > The apparent importance of the "notion" they call ~complete,~ which
> > has had enough impact on the author that she titled her play with it.
>
> Where did you get this from? Did you speak with Andrea Kuchlewska" Or
> do you just make stuff up that sounds good to your ear?
That's what she titled her play.
> > I guess
>
> Anyone lining up to hear or paying you for your "guesses" these days?
> Which university do you present your brilliant "guesses" at?
>
> > it's something akin to what is currently referred to as
> > "closure," another vague and misguided notion that one can bring about
> > an end to bad feelings or bad memories with some sort of action,
> > technique, or ~technology.~
>
> Do you perceive that the terms you lean on and use to describe yours
> and others lives are more valid proven or superior to the terms other
> choose to lean on and use to describe their lives and other's lives.
> Again how did yo get to be so superior to all those people?
teaching this for millenia. You'll likely bump into "Zen And The Art
Of Motorcycle Maintenance." That'll give you a start.
> > Some con-artist or another has been
> > selling potions 'n' notions to do this since men walked upright.
>
> Prove this. You accuse others of spouting nonsense but have no problem
> spouting your own and supporting none of it with facts.
Why wouldn't they -- there are so many gullible fools with money.
> > And made big bucks, to boot.
>
> Is that the issue Ellen, that you are a poor church mouse and you
> resent others make $ from their efforts to make $?
Landmark to do it.
> > "I'll just betcha"
>
> Are your "betchas" of the same high quality as your "guesses"?
>
> > Werner is tipping his hat to ElRon as we speak,
>
> You are delusional and watching fantasies you dream up that you
> confuse with reality.
and you don't?
Oh no, wait...
You're a Landmarker or Werner-slavering-follower and you ~create your
own reality.~ Think anyone else
feels even remotely interested in ~your~ reality?
> > "now that he's managed to spit-shine his "legacy"
>
> You are delusional and watching fantasies you dream up that you
> confuse with reality.
>
> > with some tired-out tricks that only work on his devoted followers,
> > whom he's managed to scam for a lifetime, in some cases. How sad is
> > that.
>
> You talking about Harvard and other esteemed universities, fortune 500
> companies and a long list of intelligent hard working professionals
> and people that most people respect and aspire to be, and the
> thousands, maybe millions of new people around the world being exposed
> to the ideas associated with Werner Erhard?
Like being ~exposed~ to herpes, aids, or MRSA. Millions have, you
betcha.
Do you respect and aspire to be one of the above examples? Which?
Think you won't be a laughing-stock? Think again
Ellen
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 13, 2013, 6:28:07 AM2/13/13
to
On Feb 13, 5:02 am, Tom Jones <tomtomztroub...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If someone associates ideas with Jack Rosenberg,
>
> it is not an "if", there are ideas and ways of presenting those ideas
> that people associate with Werner Erhard.
Some people recognize some thought-patterns as "ideas" and associate
> > If someone associates ideas with Jack Rosenberg,
>
> it is not an "if", there are ideas and ways of presenting those ideas
> that people associate with Werner Erhard.
those thought-patterns with Jack Rosenberg. Some people recognize
some very similar or identical thought-patterns as "ideas" and
associate those thought-patterns with (say) the late L. Ron Hubbard.
And some people recognize some very similar or identical thought-
patterns as non-ideas.
Si I thought the "if" appropriate...
> It is why you are trolling
> this fan page, because you associate this topic and all it includes
> with Werner Erhard.
important: the chicken or the eggs?
> > that represents a triumph of the marketing
>
> All of human activity where there is a large business involved that
> has any success at all, could be said to be a "triumph of marketing"
> or a failure of marketing.
alleged ideas.Look at the Gautama Buddha of legend.
> > of stolen and re-hashed gobbledegook
>
> Bro, you are the king of stolen and re-hashed gobbledegook.
highlight its goofiness, I find.
> If you
> think you have uttered a single original thought or jab or clever
> remark, you are kidding yourself. It can be found elsewhere, You want
> to know where? Go look for yourself or go piss up a rope which ever
> you wish.
rope, when will I start finding the unoriginality of my utterances?
How many days should I set aside for this exercise?
> > amongst left-over nostalgia-buffs out of the last century.
>
> More Nordstrop gobbledegook.
> > If thousands (or even millions) of folk encounter
>
> It is not an "if"
(for example) may have other interests. Hence the "if'.
> > this Good News,
>
> What is this"Good News" gobbledegook you are marketing here? You
> talking about King James Bible or some other version of the Bible?
possibility~. Ever heard of analogy?
> > we have to explain
>
> "we have to" says who? Who is the "we" you are talking about?
called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~ so-called ~statistics~.
> > why growth in the numbers of rosenbergists stutters and falls
>
> All business ebb and flow, do you live in a monastery away from cities
> and thee world?
monastery than a "business" -- and as a waning and decaying monastery.
> You do own a computer yes?
other peoples' hardware.
> Google Walmart or any
> large business and the word closure and then come back and we can
> talk. Or not.
items. googling the words "walmart" and "closure' told me when
certain Walmart outlets shut their doors at the end of each day. Does
this prove anything?
> >so much,
>
> what do you mean by "so much"? Do you have any statistics?
suckered into courses. Billions of inhabitant of Earth still to see
the light... and not much "progress" so far...
> > why ~landmark~ offices close
>
> Successful business close for a variety of reasons,
successful one.
> Starbucks have
> closed stores that were not making $ or it was determined by owners
> that they were being mismanaged or something was not up to the
> standard, apple closed stores in new orleans because of the hurricane,
> do you live under a rock bro?
> Adapting and expanding and contracting
> are all part of a large business making it's way.
as a small business.
> What is permanent in
> our world?
> > and why other memes eclipse rosenbergism so readily...
>
> More Nordstrop gobbledegook.
Tom Jones
Feb 13, 2013, 2:39:38 PM2/13/13
to
> Pissing up a rope sounds the more definite option. If I go piss up a
> rope, when will I start finding the unoriginality of my utterances?
> How many days should I set aside for this exercise?
brilliant questions.
> Proselytes spread the gospel. Landies stage ~conversations for
> possibility~. Ever heard of analogy?
> I see so-called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~ as more like a
> monastery
elephants in the sky. You are a creative dude, I will give you that.
>than a "business" -- and as a waning and decaying monastery.
the world around you as "waning and decaying". All kinds of people in
this world.
> Googling the words "monastery" and "closure" returned about 81,000
> items. googling the words "walmart" and "closure' told me when
> certain Walmart outlets shut their doors at the end of each day. Does
> this prove anything?
> But rosenbergism doesnt count as a business in my book - let alone a
> successful one.
or not successful. I googled the shit out out that name bro, nada.
Strange.
> Even if you regard rosenbergism as a "business', it would only count as a small business.
"small" "businesses" by that name. Strange.
Tex
Feb 14, 2013, 1:11:18 AM2/14/13
to
Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
You sound like a broken mp3. :)
bentot
Feb 14, 2013, 2:06:42 AM2/14/13
to
On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritte...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
>You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>
>You sound like a broken mp3. :)
Or a cracked 78. :)
wrote:
>
>Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
>You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>
>You sound like a broken mp3. :)
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 14, 2013, 7:43:45 AM2/14/13
to
On Feb 14, 8:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
style!
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
> >You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>
> >You sound like a broken mp3. :)
>
> Or a cracked 78. :)
Hey, lets all just ignore the message[s] by carping about the delivery-
>
>
>
> >Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
> >You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>
> >You sound like a broken mp3. :)
>
> Or a cracked 78. :)
style!
bentot
Feb 14, 2013, 7:53:14 PM2/14/13
to
On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:43:45 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
<s_nor...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Feb 14, 8:06�pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
>> >You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>>
>> >You sound like a broken mp3. :)
>>
>> Or a cracked 78. �:)
>
>Hey, lets all just ignore the message[s] by carping about the delivery-
>style!
Like...., don't get blind-sided by wrong pronouns?
<s_nor...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Feb 14, 8:06�pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
>> >You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>>
>> >You sound like a broken mp3. :)
>>
>> Or a cracked 78. �:)
>
>Hey, lets all just ignore the message[s] by carping about the delivery-
>style!
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 15, 2013, 3:33:22 AM2/15/13
to
On Feb 14, 8:39 am, Tom Jones <tomtomstroubl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Pissing up a rope sounds the more definite option. If I go piss up a
> > rope, when will I start finding the unoriginality of my utterances?
> > How many days should I set aside for this exercise?
>
> You are a creative guy, you will figure the answer to both your
> brilliant questions.
Faced with a cost-benefit analysis problem as to how long I should
> > Pissing up a rope sounds the more definite option. If I go piss up a
> > rope, when will I start finding the unoriginality of my utterances?
> > How many days should I set aside for this exercise?
>
> You are a creative guy, you will figure the answer to both your
> brilliant questions.
devote to finding out the unoriginality of my utterances, I find I
have insufficient data to make the exercise worthwhile. But you can
help. Just find me the time-ratio between rope-pissing and
enlightenment on the unoriginality of my utterances, and I'll work out
whether rope-pissing has sufficient trade-offs for me.
> > Proselytes spread the gospel. Landies stage ~conversations for
> > possibility~. Ever heard of analogy?
>
> What is a "Landie"? Never heard of it. Strange.
for possibility~?
> > I see so-called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~ as more like a
> > monastery
>
> You might be seeing the easter bunny, the tooth fairy and pink
> elephants in the sky. You are a creative dude, I will give you that.
alt.fan.landmark, so-called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~ seems at
first blush less mythical than the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.
Unlike the vision of blandsharkers in ~communication~ and oozing
~leadership~...
> >than a "business" -- and as a waning and decaying monastery.
>
> See what you want to see bro. Perhaps you see yourself, your life and
> the world around you as "waning and decaying". All kinds of people in
> this world.
to so-called ~landmark~ so-called ~education~ gets us back to
withering monasteries...
> > Googling the words "monastery" and "closure" returned about 81,000
> > items. googling the words "walmart" and "closure' told me when
> > certain Walmart outlets shut their doors at the end of each day. Does
> > this prove anything?
>
> Proves without a doubt that you need to go piss up a rope bro.
> > But rosenbergism doesnt count as a business in my book - let alone a
> > successful one.
>
> I do not know of any business called "rosenbergism" that is successful
> or not successful. I googled the shit out out that name bro, nada.
> Strange.
> > Even if you regard rosenbergism as a "business', it would only count as a small business.
>
> Looked up "rosenbergism" again, couldn't find nada. No large or
> "small" "businesses" by that name. Strange.
discussing monasteries?
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 15, 2013, 3:38:11 AM2/15/13
to
On Feb 15, 1:53 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:43:45 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
>
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:43:45 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
>
> <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 14, 8:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
> >> >You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>
> >> >You sound like a broken mp3. :)
>
> >> Or a cracked 78. :)
> >
> >Hey, lets all just ignore the message[s] by carping about the delivery-
> >style!
>
> Like...., don't get blind-sided by wrong pronouns?
I consulted all my 78s - cracked and uncracked. None of them showed
> >On Feb 14, 8:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
> >> >You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>
> >> >You sound like a broken mp3. :)
>
> >> Or a cracked 78. :)
> >
> >Hey, lets all just ignore the message[s] by carping about the delivery-
> >style!
>
> Like...., don't get blind-sided by wrong pronouns?
any aptitude for pronouns...
tubby
Feb 15, 2013, 7:29:33 AM2/15/13
to
You have to keep up with the times and update your mode of delivery.
cheers.
patrick
Feb 15, 2013, 6:49:20 PM2/15/13
to
start fighting with everybody and no matter who new comes to the group,
its always the same, like real droids :)
bentot
Feb 15, 2013, 9:22:28 PM2/15/13
to
I recall entering this group many months ago, only to immediately draw
condescending and hostile attacks from some lady called Ellen! She
threw down the initial gauntlet. Two other joined her. The rest is
history. I will apologize when she does. Fat chance of that
happening.
patrick
Feb 15, 2013, 10:17:18 PM2/15/13
to
all the grads are showing the exact same behavior. i dont have a blind
spot. maybe i do and dont see it.
its that you and tubby and tex and tom have the same behavior here.
in some instances it would be possible to remove your names from your posts
and it would interesting to see if some could tell who was posting.
one thing landmark has stated in the past is that they will rock u to your
foundatations, in some instances remove your way of thinking and install
new thinking.
its as if they are preparing the grads for battle without any of u knowing it.
Tex
Feb 15, 2013, 10:48:47 PM2/15/13
to
Now we're getting somewhere.
>
>
>
>
>
> its that you and tubby and tex and tom have the same behavior here.
You mean people that have a different opinion than you and possibly even agree with each other?
>
>
>
>
> its that you and tubby and tex and tom have the same behavior here.
What a concept.
Alert the media.
Is this a new phenomenon for you, Pat?
It's actually quite common, you know.
Look at how long Ellen, Enric, Pau/Serena and you have been weaving your sad tales of woe regarding Landmark.
Years now, correct? (Double digit years)
Some of us have had a different experience.
Harvard professors, CEOs of corporations, clergy etc.
It's a big, diverse world, Pat.
Welcome to it.
How's the music scene in Austin these days?
tubby
Feb 16, 2013, 12:43:53 AM2/16/13
to
On Feb 16, 2:17 pm, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> On Friday, February 15, 2013 8:22:28 PM UTC-6, bentot wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:49:20 -0800 (PST), patrick
>
> On Friday, February 15, 2013 8:22:28 PM UTC-6, bentot wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:49:20 -0800 (PST), patrick
>
who participated in Est Forum speak up.
Just trying to keep you honest Pattie.
Cheers
bentot
Feb 16, 2013, 1:06:35 AM2/16/13
to
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 16, 2013, 2:44:32 AM2/16/13
to
linguistics call this "evolution".
> You have to keep up with the times and update your mode of delivery.
harking back to previous long-lost golden eras becomes permissible...
> cheers.
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 16, 2013, 2:49:51 AM2/16/13
to
> Just trying to keep you honest Pattie.
> Cheers
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 16, 2013, 2:56:24 AM2/16/13
to
On Feb 16, 7:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:43:53 -0800 (PST), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
Do ~grads~ have some sort of monopoly on making up ~stories~?
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:43:53 -0800 (PST), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
patrick
Feb 16, 2013, 10:30:34 AM2/16/13
to
ben may not have any answer but i ask it of everyone.
were u unloved or unlovable. from the landmark forum perspective ?
bentot
Feb 16, 2013, 1:00:19 PM2/16/13
to
"Don't regret getting old. It's a privilege denied many!"
>
>> cheers.
tubby
Feb 16, 2013, 5:30:14 PM2/16/13
to
We don't want to circle jerk you like our friend,
the amorous wonderful Muse Nordstrop but give you
a straight up answer to a very personal question.
Cheers
patrick
Feb 16, 2013, 9:17:47 PM2/16/13
to
into the unloved or unlovable type they discuss tubby.
bentot
Feb 16, 2013, 10:07:56 PM2/16/13
to
a landmark thing.
bentot
tubby
Feb 17, 2013, 5:01:07 AM2/17/13
to
On Feb 17, 2:07 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:17:47 -0800 (PST), patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:17:47 -0800 (PST), patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
However something similar may have been discussed about growing up
and your childhood.
It may have been presented by the Forum leader, a few examples given
and then discussed with who ever
you were partnering up with.
What are you trying to say Pattie??????
Give us more details about what you are seeking??????
Cheers
tubby
Feb 17, 2013, 5:09:34 AM2/17/13
to
You are the only one in the group that is granted that privilege with
your insightful tormenting questions'
I hope you are well
Cheers Bro
I think Tom Jones got it wrong
It should be " Sis"
tubby
Feb 17, 2013, 7:40:51 AM2/17/13
to
having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
jerker"
which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
you the benefit of the doubt) , and his off hand comment to " Go piss
up a rope"
Just curious???
Cheers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > cheers.
patrick
Feb 17, 2013, 10:03:03 AM2/17/13
to
as being crude and rude. u are projecting landmark grads and crude
nasty beings. no surprises there but u could do better.
patrick
Feb 17, 2013, 11:18:34 AM2/17/13
to
tubby
Feb 17, 2013, 5:12:19 PM2/17/13
to
this group,
but I take your point.
By the way this has nothing to do with being a Landmark grad but
everything to do with
my own personal behavior which I am responsible for.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Cheers
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 18, 2013, 5:13:46 AM2/18/13
to
the illusion of dealing with multiple personalities...
> you just can't help yourself
> having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
(And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
> What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
up~ ! ...
> And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
> jerker"
> which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> you the benefit of the doubt) ,
labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
> and his off hand comment to " Go piss up a rope"
> Just curious???
Intensely. How about you this week?
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 18, 2013, 5:17:27 AM2/18/13
to
On Feb 18, 11:12 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:03 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
<snip>
> On Feb 18, 2:03 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> > tubby, u might want to get over the circle jerk stuff. it comes over
> > as being crude and rude. u are projecting landmark grads and crude
> > nasty beings. no surprises there but u could do better.
>
> I would have thought calling " a spade a spade" would be welcome in
> this group,
> but I take your point.
>
> By the way this has nothing to do with being a Landmark grad but
> everything to do with
> my own personal behavior which I am responsible for.
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 18, 2013, 5:22:01 AM2/18/13
to
> I hope you are well
> Cheers Bro
>
> I think Tom Jones got it wrong
>
> It should be " Sis"
tubby
Feb 18, 2013, 11:20:15 PM2/18/13
to
strep, strap or strup,
all minor personalities living in the heavens with you.
Get over it>
>
> > you just can't help yourself
> > having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
>
> ~Try~ making the ~distinction~, Bruno, between "having a go at Ben"
> and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
> (And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
> Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
>
> > What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> > saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
>
> You think that because Ben (and your idolization thereof) causes so
> much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
> up~ ! ...
Just look at all your covert negative postings.
Its all there Muse for everyone to see.
>
> > And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
> > jerker"
>
> Huh?
You were caught and identified by Ben correctly of what you are.
Namely a CJ. period.
>
> > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > and his off hand comment to " Go piss up a rope"
>
> Comment? Or piece of advice? Or command?
Sleep well Muse
Cheers
tubby
Feb 18, 2013, 11:21:23 PM2/18/13
to
cheers
tubby
Feb 18, 2013, 11:25:27 PM2/18/13
to
>
> > I hope you are well
>
> Thriving in the wake of your hopes.
>
> > Cheers Bro
>
> > I think Tom Jones got it wrong
>
> > It should be " Sis"
>
> Note the utter irrelevance of perceived gender in online debate..
.
Good to know who you are talking to.
By the way, what debate are you talking about??????
cheers
bentot
Feb 19, 2013, 12:32:43 AM2/19/13
to
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 19, 2013, 5:17:29 AM2/19/13
to
> > > I hope you are well
>
> > Thriving in the wake of your hopes.
>
> Wonderful to hear Muse, just wonderful!!!
>
>
>
> > > Cheers Bro
>
> > > I think Tom Jones got it wrong
>
> > > It should be " Sis"
>
> > Note the utter irrelevance of perceived gender in online debate..
>
> Not at all "SIS" .
>
> Good to know who you are talking to.
Really? Does that influence one's responses so much?
>
> Good to know who you are talking to.
> By the way, what debate are you talking about??????
years of participation and frenzied posting, and you hadn't noticed?
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 19, 2013, 5:34:36 AM2/19/13
to
And for how many years have you greeted the arrival of each exemplar
of my posting header with joy and acclaim?
> but who cares whether its strip ,
> strep, strap or strup,
unfamiliar with Strine, who may ~try~ in the cause of identity to
disentangle the various people involved - Bruno/Tubby, Nordstrop/
Nordstrup, Erhard/Rosenberg/VonSavage/Frost/Spits ...
> all minor personalities living in the heavens with you.
If you can give me their addresses I could visit.
> Get over it>
>
> > > you just can't help yourself
> > > having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
>
> > ~Try~ making the ~distinction~, Bruno, between "having a go at Ben"
> > and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
> > (And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
> > Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
>
> No need to Muse, you just like making up excuses and rationalizing
> your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
But you know better than to use such logical tools, no doubt...
> > > What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> > > saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
>
> > You think that because Ben (and your idolization thereof) causes so
> > much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
> > up~ ! ...
>
> No I didn't.
> Just look at all your covert negative postings.
> Its all there Muse for everyone to see.
good friend and colleague Ben. Put up or shut up, Bruno.
> > > And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
> > > jerker"
>
> > Huh?
>
> Don't feign ignorance Muse.
> You were caught and identified by Ben correctly of what you are.
> Namely a CJ. period.
> > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> What debate???????????????????
> > > and his off hand comment to " Go piss up a rope"
>
> > Comment? Or piece of advice? Or command?
>
> All of them Muse, because " you are worth it" !!!!!!!!
> Sleep well Muse
>
> Cheers
>
> > > Just curious???
>
> > Intensely. How about you this week?
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 19, 2013, 5:37:20 AM2/19/13
to
On Feb 19, 6:32 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:20:15 -0800 (PST), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
The more interrogative "?" symbols, the more like interrogation...
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:20:15 -0800 (PST), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 19, 2013, 5:41:30 AM2/19/13
to
How would you prove whether responsibility for personal bebavior comes
with maturity, Bruno?
Anyway: back to the question: who taught you that idea, Bruno?
tubby
Feb 20, 2013, 7:02:28 AM2/20/13
to
On Feb 19, 9:41 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 5:21 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 18, 9:17 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 18, 11:12 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 18, 2:03 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > > > tubby, u might want to get over the circle jerk stuff. it comes over
> > > > > as being crude and rude. u are projecting landmark grads and crude
> > > > > nasty beings. no surprises there but u could do better.
>
> > > > I would have thought calling " a spade a spade" would be welcome in
> > > > this group,
> > > > but I take your point.
>
> > > > By the way this has nothing to do with being a Landmark grad but
> > > > everything to do with
> > > > my own personal behavior which I am responsible for.
>
> > > And who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > Does not that also come sometimes with Maturity?????????
>
> I wouldn't have thought so -- it seems rather abstract.
Abstract what do you mean????
> On Feb 19, 5:21 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 18, 9:17 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 18, 11:12 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 18, 2:03 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > > > tubby, u might want to get over the circle jerk stuff. it comes over
> > > > > as being crude and rude. u are projecting landmark grads and crude
> > > > > nasty beings. no surprises there but u could do better.
>
> > > > I would have thought calling " a spade a spade" would be welcome in
> > > > this group,
> > > > but I take your point.
>
> > > > By the way this has nothing to do with being a Landmark grad but
> > > > everything to do with
> > > > my own personal behavior which I am responsible for.
>
> > > And who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > Does not that also come sometimes with Maturity?????????
>
> I wouldn't have thought so -- it seems rather abstract.
>
> How would you prove whether responsibility for personal bebavior comes
> with maturity, Bruno?
Just use your common sense.
>
> Anyway: back to the question: who taught you that idea, Bruno?
I have a sense of guilt whenever I reply to your insightful questions
that I feel
I have to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness.
It's a feeling Muse I don't know whether you would understand or feel
anything for that matter.?????
Goodnight dear Muse.
tubby
Feb 20, 2013, 7:19:39 AM2/20/13
to
haven't been to the Forest lately
to find peace and quiet but it seems I hear you barking and wailing
into the still night even there!!!!!
>
> And for how many years have you greeted the arrival of each exemplar
> of my posting header with joy and acclaim?
but I still get
excited.
>
> > but who cares whether its strip ,
> > strep, strap or strup,
>
> Dunno who cares. But spare a thought for future archaeologists,
> unfamiliar with Strine, who may ~try~ in the cause of identity to
> disentangle the various people involved - Bruno/Tubby, Nordstrop/
> Nordstrup, Erhard/Rosenberg/VonSavage/Frost/Spits ...
The here and Now!!!
>
> > all minor personalities living in the heavens with you.
>
> Oh.
>
> If you can give me their addresses I could visit.
>
> > Get over it>
>
> > > > you just can't help yourself
> > > > having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
>
> > > ~Try~ making the ~distinction~, Bruno, between "having a go at Ben"
> > > and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
> > > (And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
> > > Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
>
> > No need to Muse, you just like making up excuses and rationalizing
> > your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
>
> Rosenbergism promotes ~distinctions~, Bruno.
>
> But you know better than to use such logical tools, no doubt...
>
> > > > What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> > > > saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
>
> > > You think that because Ben (and your idolization thereof) causes so
> > > much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
> > > up~ ! ...
>
> > No I didn't.
>
> Yes you did.
>
> > Just look at all your covert negative postings.
> > Its all there Muse for everyone to see.
>
> Show me an example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of my
> good friend and colleague Ben. Put up or shut up, Bruno.
>
> > > > And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
> > > > jerker"
>
> > > Huh?
>
> > Don't feign ignorance Muse.
> > You were caught and identified by Ben correctly of what you are.
> > Namely a CJ. period.
>
> Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where did he "catch me out"?
Lets agree that Ben expressed an opinion that caught you out as a CJ
period.
>
> > > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> > > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > What debate???????????????????
>
> On the nature of rosenbergism.
Never would have thought so.
>
> > > > and his off hand comment to " Go piss up a rope"
>
> > > Comment? Or piece of advice? Or command?
>
> > All of them Muse, because " you are worth it" !!!!!!!!
>
> All of them, excluding the comment.
>
> > Sleep well Muse
>
> > Cheers
>
> > > > Just curious???
>
> > > Intensely. How about you this week?
>
> How about you this week, Bruno?
No I'm not available for that drink I promised you.
> > > > and his off hand comment to " Go piss up a rope"
>
> > > Comment? Or piece of advice? Or command?
>
> > All of them Muse, because " you are worth it" !!!!!!!!
>
> All of them, excluding the comment.
>
> > Sleep well Muse
>
> > Cheers
>
> > > > Just curious???
>
> > > Intensely. How about you this week?
>
> How about you this week, Bruno?
I have to Baby sit my grand child and then go to the Forest
to meditate and relax a little.
I'm thinking of purchasing a Chinese tractor.
Would you be interested in one because then I can negotiate a better
price
by requesting 2 tractors. All you need is $3987.00 AUS for a 60/80 HP
tractor
FOB some port in China.
Sleep tight Muse.
Cheers
tubby
Feb 20, 2013, 7:25:34 AM2/20/13
to
Something to do with your enlightened questions
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > I hope you are well
>
> > > Thriving in the wake of your hopes.
>
> > Wonderful to hear Muse, just wonderful!!!
>
> > > > Cheers Bro
>
> > > > I think Tom Jones got it wrong
>
> > > > It should be " Sis"
>
> > > Note the utter irrelevance of perceived gender in online debate..
>
> > Not at all "SIS" .
>
> > Good to know who you are talking to.
>
> Really? Does that influence one's responses so much?
>
> > By the way, what debate are you talking about??????
>
> On the nature of rosenbergism in its various guises, Bruno. All these
> years of participation and frenzied posting, and you hadn't noticed?
Well I'll be darned.
You learn something new every day.
Sleep tight my wonderful Muse.
cheers
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 21, 2013, 4:54:19 AM2/21/13
to
> > And for how many years have you greeted the arrival of each exemplar
> > of my posting header with joy and acclaim?
>
> I always get excited when I read your postings. Can't understand them
> but I still get
> excited.
> > > but who cares whether its strip ,
> > > strep, strap or strup,
>
> > Dunno who cares. But spare a thought for future archaeologists,
> > unfamiliar with Strine, who may ~try~ in the cause of identity to
> > disentangle the various people involved - Bruno/Tubby, Nordstrop/
> > Nordstrup, Erhard/Rosenberg/VonSavage/Frost/Spits ...
>
> No thought on my part Muse ,
> I try live in the moment.
> The here and Now!!!
Consider how much you may miss out on by restricting yourself to the
merely Now !
> > > all minor personalities living in the heavens with you.
>
> > Oh.
>
> > If you can give me their addresses I could visit.
>
> Can I come with you?????
> > > Get over it>
>
> > > > > you just can't help yourself
> > > > > having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
>
> > > > ~Try~ making the ~distinction~, Bruno, between "having a go at Ben"
> > > > and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
> > > > (And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
> > > > Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
>
> > > No need to Muse, you just like making up excuses and rationalizing
> > > your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
>
> > Rosenbergism promotes ~distinctions~, Bruno.
>
> Bully for your boyfriend.
of ~distinguishing~...
> > But you know better than to use such logical tools, no doubt...
>
> > > > > What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> > > > > saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
>
> > > > You think that because Ben (and your idolization thereof) causes so
> > > > much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
> > > > up~ ! ...
>
> > > No I didn't.
>
> > Yes you did.
>
> > > Just look at all your covert negative postings.
> > > Its all there Muse for everyone to see.
>
> > Show me an example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of my
> > good friend and colleague Ben. Put up or shut up, Bruno.
>
> Just read the tone of all your posting Muse.
Give a specific example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of
my good friend and colleague Ben. Do it quick or no-one will believe
you.
> > > > > And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
> > > > > jerker"
>
> > > > Huh?
>
> > > Don't feign ignorance Muse.
> > > You were caught and identified by Ben correctly of what you are.
> > > Namely a CJ. period.
>
> > Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where did he "catch me out"?
>
> Okay if that' s how you see it fine.
> Lets agree that Ben expressed an opinion that caught you out as a CJ
> period.
"catch me out"?
> > > > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> > > > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > > > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > > What debate???????????????????
>
> > On the nature of rosenbergism.
>
> Is that what it is?????
> Never would have thought so.
https://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.landmark/about
which says of alt.fan.landmark: "Description What is The Forum ?"
> > > > > and his off hand comment to " Go piss up a rope"
>
> > > > Comment? Or piece of advice? Or command?
>
> > > All of them Muse, because " you are worth it" !!!!!!!!
>
> > All of them, excluding the comment.
>
> > > Sleep well Muse
>
> > > Cheers
>
> > > > > Just curious???
>
> > > > Intensely. How about you this week?
>
> > How about you this week, Bruno?
>
> No I'm not available for that drink I promised you.
> I have to Baby sit my grand child and then go to the Forest
> to meditate and relax a little.
>
> I'm thinking of purchasing a Chinese tractor.
> Would you be interested in one because then I can negotiate a better
> price
> by requesting 2 tractors.
> All you need is $3987.00 AUS for a 60/80 HP
> tractor
>
> FOB some port in China.
> Sleep tight Muse.
>
> Cheers
Serena Nordstrup
Feb 21, 2013, 4:59:25 AM2/21/13
to
On Feb 21, 1:02 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 9:41 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 19, 5:21 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 18, 9:17 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 18, 11:12 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 18, 2:03 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > tubby, u might want to get over the circle jerk stuff. it comes over
> > > > > > as being crude and rude. u are projecting landmark grads and crude
> > > > > > nasty beings. no surprises there but u could do better.
>
> > > > > I would have thought calling " a spade a spade" would be welcome in
> > > > > this group,
> > > > > but I take your point.
>
> > > > > By the way this has nothing to do with being a Landmark grad but
> > > > > everything to do with
> > > > > my own personal behavior which I am responsible for.
>
> > > > And who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > > Does not that also come sometimes with Maturity?????????
>
> > I wouldn't have thought so -- it seems rather abstract.
>
> Abstract what do you mean????
Not something definite or demonstrable that the average human works
> On Feb 19, 9:41 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 19, 5:21 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 18, 9:17 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 18, 11:12 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 18, 2:03 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > tubby, u might want to get over the circle jerk stuff. it comes over
> > > > > > as being crude and rude. u are projecting landmark grads and crude
> > > > > > nasty beings. no surprises there but u could do better.
>
> > > > > I would have thought calling " a spade a spade" would be welcome in
> > > > > this group,
> > > > > but I take your point.
>
> > > > > By the way this has nothing to do with being a Landmark grad but
> > > > > everything to do with
> > > > > my own personal behavior which I am responsible for.
>
> > > > And who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > > Does not that also come sometimes with Maturity?????????
>
> > I wouldn't have thought so -- it seems rather abstract.
>
> Abstract what do you mean????
out for herself.
> > How would you prove whether responsibility for personal bebavior comes
> > with maturity, Bruno?
>
> Don't need to prove anything my dear Muse.
> Just use your common sense.
>
>
>
> > Anyway: back to the question: who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> You did my amorous Muse.
> I have a sense of guilt whenever I reply to your insightful questions
> that I feel
> I have to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness.
> It's a feeling Muse I don't know whether you would understand or feel
> anything for that matter.?????
tubby
Feb 21, 2013, 6:57:19 AM2/21/13
to
>
> > > And for how many years have you greeted the arrival of each exemplar
> > > of my posting header with joy and acclaim?
>
> > I always get excited when I read your postings. Can't understand them
> > but I still get
> > excited.
>
> So how many years?
I've been married to my lovely wife for 40+
I'm just as passionate as I was when I first met her.
Correction half as passionate but still passionate.
It seems like yesterday to me!!!!!
>
> > > > but who cares whether its strip ,
> > > > strep, strap or strup,
>
> > > Dunno who cares. But spare a thought for future archaeologists,
> > > unfamiliar with Strine, who may ~try~ in the cause of identity to
> > > disentangle the various people involved - Bruno/Tubby, Nordstrop/
> > > Nordstrup, Erhard/Rosenberg/VonSavage/Frost/Spits ...
>
> > No thought on my part Muse ,
>
> First you think, and then you don't... How very human!
Is it any different in the heavens??????
>
> > I try live in the moment.
> > The here and Now!!!
>
> Every now has intense links with the future as well as with the past.
> Consider how much you may miss out on by restricting yourself to the
> merely Now !
I thought you disliked him intensely!!!!!!!!!!!
You are not supposed to have your cake and eat it!!!!!!!
>
> > > > all minor personalities living in the heavens with you.
>
> > > Oh.
>
> > > If you can give me their addresses I could visit.
>
> > Can I come with you?????
>
> You know the way to the heavens?
then you could be my spiritual guide.
A Dantesque daemon perhaps????
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > Get over it>
>
> > > > > > you just can't help yourself
> > > > > > having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
>
> > > > > ~Try~ making the ~distinction~, Bruno, between "having a go at Ben"
> > > > > and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
> > > > > (And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
> > > > > Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
>
> > > > No need to Muse, you just like making up excuses and rationalizing
> > > > your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
>
> > > Rosenbergism promotes ~distinctions~, Bruno.
>
> > Bully for your boyfriend.
>
> Not that rosenbergism discovered or invented or pioneeered the idea
> of ~distinguishing~...
Did he plagiarize it from someone???????
Wonder who it was??
Bet you Ellen knows it was her mentor El Ron maybe ????
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > But you know better than to use such logical tools, no doubt...
>
> > > > > > What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> > > > > > saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
>
> > > > > You think that because Ben (and your idolization thereof) causes so
> > > > > much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
> > > > > up~ ! ...
>
> > > > No I didn't.
>
> > > Yes you did.
>
> > > > Just look at all your covert negative postings.
> > > > Its all there Muse for everyone to see.
>
> > > Show me an example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of my
> > > good friend and colleague Ben. Put up or shut up, Bruno.
>
> > Just read the tone of all your posting Muse.
>
> Some of my postings don't even mention Ben. Others have varied tone.
> Give a specific example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of
> my good friend and colleague Ben. Do it quick or no-one will believe
> you.
Is it because he lived his life with no regrets, repaired some of his
faults and moved on?????
That' s what I like about Ben , he is humble, is having a great time
and living life to the fullest.
I have a respect for Ben,
1. Because he is older than I am ( I was taught to respect my Elders)
2.Because he seems to have bigger " Coyones " than me through his
adventurous sailing and water rafting exploits, and other exciting
events
he has not told us about.
3 , From his postings he is a down to earth guy, comfortable in his
own skin, in a wonderful relationship, with good family ties.
Is there anything else that could be missing?????
I think that' s what you are envious about???
Stand to be corrected!!!!
>
> > > > > > And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
> > > > > > jerker"
>
> > > > > Huh?
>
> > > > Don't feign ignorance Muse.
> > > > You were caught and identified by Ben correctly of what you are.
> > > > Namely a CJ. period.
>
> > > Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where did he "catch me out"?
>
> > Okay if that' s how you see it fine.
> > Lets agree that Ben expressed an opinion that caught you out as a CJ
> > period.
>
> Let's agree that Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where specifically did he
> "catch me out"?
Good enough for me!!!!!!!!!!!
Can I prove it.
No Don't need to it fits in with my prejudices and beliefs .
>
> > > > > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > > > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> > > > > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > > > > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > > > What debate???????????????????
>
> > > On the nature of rosenbergism.
>
> > Is that what it is?????
> > Never would have thought so.
>
> See:
>
> https://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.landmark/about
>
> which says of alt.fan.landmark: "Description What is The Forum ?"
saw.
That' s why some of us speak up when tall tales are being spoken
about.!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > and his off hand comment to " Go piss up a rope"
>
> > > > > Comment? Or piece of advice? Or command?
>
> > > > All of them Muse, because " you are worth it" !!!!!!!!
>
> > > All of them, excluding the comment.
>
> > > > Sleep well Muse
>
> > > > Cheers
>
> > > > > > Just curious???
>
> > > > > Intensely. How about you this week?
>
> > > How about you this week, Bruno?
>
> > No I'm not available for that drink I promised you.
> > I have to Baby sit my grand child and then go to the Forest
> > to meditate and relax a little.
>
> > I'm thinking of purchasing a Chinese tractor.
> > Would you be interested in one because then I can negotiate a better
> > price
> > by requesting 2 tractors.
>
> No.
>
> > All you need is $3987.00 AUS for a 60/80 HP
> > tractor
>
> > FOB some port in China.
>
> Why not just buy a team of camels from Australia?
Feed, Grooming, saddling, spitting and controlling.
Chinese Tractor place some fuel in tank, turn the key and then pray
to God it starts.
Better odds I think.
Down at the beach in Mt. Martha today with my grandson.
Met 2 nice ladies in the water and had a warm chat.
As I was coming out of the water saw this attractive lass in bikini
walking towards me
so I pulled my stomach in, lifted my shoulders and smiled.
No reaction
God I wonder if that was my good friend Ms. Norsrup
Sleep tight my Muse.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sleep tight Muse.
>
> > Cheers
tubby
Feb 21, 2013, 7:13:10 AM2/21/13
to
On Feb 21, 8:59 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 1:02 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 19, 9:41 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 19, 5:21 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 18, 9:17 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 18, 11:12 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 18, 2:03 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > > tubby, u might want to get over the circle jerk stuff. it comes over
> > > > > > > as being crude and rude. u are projecting landmark grads and crude
> > > > > > > nasty beings. no surprises there but u could do better.
>
> > > > > > I would have thought calling " a spade a spade" would be welcome in
> > > > > > this group,
> > > > > > but I take your point.
>
> > > > > > By the way this has nothing to do with being a Landmark grad but
> > > > > > everything to do with
> > > > > > my own personal behavior which I am responsible for.
>
> > > > > And who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > > > Does not that also come sometimes with Maturity?????????
>
> > > I wouldn't have thought so -- it seems rather abstract.
>
> > Abstract what do you mean????
>
> Not something definite or demonstrable that the average human works
> out for herself.
How would you know????
> On Feb 21, 1:02 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 19, 9:41 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 19, 5:21 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 18, 9:17 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 18, 11:12 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 18, 2:03 am, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> > > > > <snip>
>
> > > > > > > tubby, u might want to get over the circle jerk stuff. it comes over
> > > > > > > as being crude and rude. u are projecting landmark grads and crude
> > > > > > > nasty beings. no surprises there but u could do better.
>
> > > > > > I would have thought calling " a spade a spade" would be welcome in
> > > > > > this group,
> > > > > > but I take your point.
>
> > > > > > By the way this has nothing to do with being a Landmark grad but
> > > > > > everything to do with
> > > > > > my own personal behavior which I am responsible for.
>
> > > > > And who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > > > Does not that also come sometimes with Maturity?????????
>
> > > I wouldn't have thought so -- it seems rather abstract.
>
> > Abstract what do you mean????
>
> Not something definite or demonstrable that the average human works
> out for herself.
What evidence can you present to bolster your point of view???
>
> > > How would you prove whether responsibility for personal bebavior comes
> > > with maturity, Bruno?
>
> > Don't need to prove anything my dear Muse.
> > Just use your common sense.
>
> > > Anyway: back to the question: who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > You did my amorous Muse.
>
> Where did I ever preach ~responsibility~? Quote me!
instructions???
Who knows??????
>
> > I have a sense of guilt whenever I reply to your insightful questions
> > that I feel
> > I have to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness.
> > It's a feeling Muse I don't know whether you would understand or feel
> > anything for that matter.?????
>
> How many shamans have you discussed this with, Bruno?
the attention
of the Shaman when he is blowing smoke up my nose and wailing and
waxing in the Music.
I will mention the name Nordstruuup to see what Daimons he brings up.
Good night dear Muse.
bentot
Feb 21, 2013, 11:45:29 AM2/21/13
to
spraying martini on the monitor!!! Damn, that's a good one!
bentot
Serena Nordstrup
Mar 1, 2013, 3:56:36 AM3/1/13
to
headers of my postings in the archives.
> > > > And for how many years have you greeted the arrival of each exemplar
> > > > of my posting header with joy and acclaim?
>
> > > I always get excited when I read your postings. Can't understand them
> > > but I still get
> > > excited.
>
> > So how many years?
>
> Dunno it seems like yesterday to me.
> I've been married to my lovely wife for 40+
> I'm just as passionate as I was when I first met her.
> Correction half as passionate but still passionate.
> It seems like yesterday to me!!!!!
>
>
>
> > > > > but who cares whether its strip ,
> > > > > strep, strap or strup,
>
> > > > Dunno who cares. But spare a thought for future archaeologists,
> > > > unfamiliar with Strine, who may ~try~ in the cause of identity to
> > > > disentangle the various people involved - Bruno/Tubby, Nordstrop/
> > > > Nordstrup, Erhard/Rosenberg/VonSavage/Frost/Spits ...
>
> > > No thought on my part Muse ,
>
> > First you think, and then you don't... How very human!
>
> Glad you approve of humanity.
> Is it any different in the heavens??????
lack conventional humanity. But since you made up the heavens bit,
tell the ~story~ your way...
> > > I try live in the moment.
> > > The here and Now!!!
>
> > Every now has intense links with the future as well as with the past.
> > Consider how much you may miss out on by restricting yourself to the
> > merely Now !
>
> Hang on Muse you are now quoting your boyfriend Werner!!!!!!!!
> I thought you disliked him intensely!!!!!!!!!!!
that you once studied logick ...
> You are not supposed to have your cake and eat it!!!!!!!
> > > > > all minor personalities living in the heavens with you.
>
> > > > Oh.
>
> > > > If you can give me their addresses I could visit.
>
> > > Can I come with you?????
>
> > You know the way to the heavens?
>
> No I don't but since it seems to me you live in the Heavens
> then you could be my spiritual guide.
> A Dantesque daemon perhaps????
Or not...
> > > > > Get over it>
>
> > > > > > > you just can't help yourself
> > > > > > > having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
>
> > > > > > ~Try~ making the ~distinction~, Bruno, between "having a go at Ben"
> > > > > > and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
> > > > > > (And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
> > > > > > Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
>
> > > > > No need to Muse, you just like making up excuses and rationalizing
> > > > > your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
>
> > > > Rosenbergism promotes ~distinctions~, Bruno.
>
> > > Bully for your boyfriend.
>
> > Not that rosenbergism discovered or invented or pioneeered the idea
> > of ~distinguishing~...
>
> AAHHAaa
>
> Did he plagiarize it from someone???????
> Wonder who it was??
Why not find out? -- The classical Romans had a verb "distinguere" --
to distinguish.
> Bet you Ellen knows it was her mentor El Ron maybe ????
round the Roman Republic.
> > > > But you know better than to use such logical tools, no doubt...
>
> > > > > > > What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> > > > > > > saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
>
> > > > > > You think that because Ben (and your idolization thereof) causes so
> > > > > > much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
> > > > > > up~ ! ...
>
> > > > > No I didn't.
>
> > > > Yes you did.
>
> > > > > Just look at all your covert negative postings.
> > > > > Its all there Muse for everyone to see.
>
> > > > Show me an example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of my
> > > > good friend and colleague Ben. Put up or shut up, Bruno.
>
> > > Just read the tone of all your posting Muse.
>
> > Some of my postings don't even mention Ben. Others have varied tone.
> > Give a specific example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of
> > my good friend and colleague Ben. Do it quick or no-one will believe
> > you.
>
> Nuh everyone knows you hate Ben with a passion.
> Is it because he lived his life with no regrets, repaired some of his
> faults and moved on?????
> That' s what I like about Ben , he is humble, is having a great time
> and living life to the fullest.
> I have a respect for Ben,
>
> 1. Because he is older than I am ( I was taught to respect my Elders)
> 2.Because he seems to have bigger " Coyones " than me
> through his
> adventurous sailing and water rafting exploits, and other exciting
> events
> he has not told us about.
> 3 , From his postings he is a down to earth guy, comfortable in his
> own skin, in a wonderful relationship, with good family ties.
one and ~story~-two.
> Is there anything else that could be missing?????
> I think that' s what you are envious about???
> Stand to be corrected!!!!
>
>
>
> > > > > > > And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
> > > > > > > jerker"
>
> > > > > > Huh?
>
> > > > > Don't feign ignorance Muse.
> > > > > You were caught and identified by Ben correctly of what you are.
> > > > > Namely a CJ. period.
>
> > > > Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where did he "catch me out"?
>
> > > Okay if that' s how you see it fine.
> > > Lets agree that Ben expressed an opinion that caught you out as a CJ
> > > period.
>
> > Let's agree that Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where specifically did he
> > "catch me out"?
>
> Good. He expressed an opinion that you were a CJ. period.
> Good enough for me!!!!!!!!!!!
> Can I prove it.
> No Don't need to it fits in with my prejudices and beliefs .
such trivia so far...)
> > > > > > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > > > > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> > > > > > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > > > > > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > > > > What debate???????????????????
>
> > > > On the nature of rosenbergism.
>
> > > Is that what it is?????
> > > Never would have thought so.
>
> > See:
>
> >https://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.landmark/about
>
> > which says of alt.fan.landmark: "Description What is The Forum ?"
>
> Well whatever you may have presented
presented? Or do you have something quotable and specific in mind?)
> wasn't what I experienced and
> saw.
> That' s why some of us speak up when tall tales are being spoken
> about.!!!!!!
> Down at the beach in Mt. Martha today with my grandson.
> Met 2 nice ladies in the water and had a warm chat.
>
> As I was coming out of the water saw this attractive lass in bikini
> walking towards me
> so I pulled my stomach in, lifted my shoulders and smiled.
>
> No reaction
>
> God I wonder if that was my good friend Ms. Norsrup
Serena Nordstrup
Mar 1, 2013, 3:59:26 AM3/1/13
to
On Feb 22, 5:45 am, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 01:54:19 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
> <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 21, 1:19 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 19, 9:34 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Feb 19, 5:20 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > On Feb 18, 9:13 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > On Feb 18, 1:40 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > On Feb 16, 6:44 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > On Feb 16, 1:29 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > > On Feb 15, 7:38 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 1:53 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:43:45 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
>
> >> > > > > > > > > <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >On Feb 14, 8:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
<snip>
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 01:54:19 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
> <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 21, 1:19 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 19, 9:34 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Feb 19, 5:20 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > On Feb 18, 9:13 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > On Feb 18, 1:40 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > On Feb 16, 6:44 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > On Feb 16, 1:29 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > > On Feb 15, 7:38 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 1:53 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:43:45 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
>
> >> > > > > > > > > <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >On Feb 14, 8:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> >> > Show me an example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of my
> >> > good friend and colleague Ben. Put up or shut up, Bruno.
>
> >> Just read the tone of all your posting Muse.
>
> >Some of my postings don't even mention Ben. Others have varied tone.
> >Give a specific example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of
> >my good friend and colleague Ben. Do it quick or no-one will believe
> >you.
>
> "........my good friend and colleague Ben" Choke, cough, cough,
> spraying martini on the monitor!!! Damn, that's a good one!
> bentot
Serena Nordstrup
Mar 1, 2013, 4:15:07 AM3/1/13
to
speculation.
> What evidence can you present to bolster your point of view???
As opposed to taught morality.
And thus back to the former question: who taught you the idea of
personal ~responsibility~ for one's own behavior?
> > > > How would you prove whether responsibility for personal bebavior comes
> > > > with maturity, Bruno?
>
> > > Don't need to prove anything my dear Muse.
> > > Just use your common sense.
responsibility for personal behavior comes with maturity, Bruno?
> > > > Anyway: back to the question: who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > > You did my amorous Muse.
>
> > Where did I ever preach ~responsibility~? Quote me!
>
> Was it your boyfriend Werner maybe, or was it my religious
> instructions???
> Who knows??????
preached ~responsibility~.
> > > I have a sense of guilt whenever I reply to your insightful questions
> > > that I feel
> > > I have to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness.
> > > It's a feeling Muse I don't know whether you would understand or feel
> > > anything for that matter.?????
>
> > How many shamans have you discussed this with, Bruno?
>
> No one presently however on my next Ayawaska trip I will bring it to
> the attention
> of the Shaman when he is blowing smoke up my nose and wailing and
> waxing in the Music.
>
> I will mention the name Nordstruuup to see what Daimons he brings up.
> Good night dear Muse.
tubby
Mar 8, 2013, 7:36:40 AM3/8/13
to
>
> > > > > And for how many years have you greeted the arrival of each exemplar
> > > > > of my posting header with joy and acclaim?
>
> > > > I always get excited when I read your postings. Can't understand them
> > > > but I still get
> > > > excited.
>
> > > So how many years?
>
> > Dunno it seems like yesterday to me.
>
> Count.
>
> > I've been married to my lovely wife for 40+
>
> See, you can count.
>
> > I'm just as passionate as I was when I first met her.
> > Correction half as passionate but still passionate.
> > It seems like yesterday to me!!!!!
>
> > > > > > but who cares whether its strip ,
> > > > > > strep, strap or strup,
>
> > > > > Dunno who cares. But spare a thought for future archaeologists,
> > > > > unfamiliar with Strine, who may ~try~ in the cause of identity to
> > > > > disentangle the various people involved - Bruno/Tubby, Nordstrop/
> > > > > Nordstrup, Erhard/Rosenberg/VonSavage/Frost/Spits ...
>
> > > > No thought on my part Muse ,
>
> > > First you think, and then you don't... How very human!
>
> > Glad you approve of humanity.
>
> or glad if I despise it?
>
> > Is it any different in the heavens??????
>
> I gather (not from first-hand ~experience~) that most of the heavens
> lack conventional humanity. But since you made up the heavens bit,
> tell the ~story~ your way...
>
> > > > I try live in the moment.
> > > > The here and Now!!!
>
> > >
> > > Consider how much you may miss out on by restricting yourself to the
> > > merely Now !
>
> > Hang on Muse you are now quoting your boyfriend Werner!!!!!!!!
>
> Chapter? Verse?
What you have said namely
> > > merely Now !
>
> > Hang on Muse you are now quoting your boyfriend Werner!!!!!!!!
>
> Chapter? Verse?
" Every now has intense links with the future as well as with the
past."
you
and not acknowledge it.
Your boyfriend Werner I assume is the forgiving kind , however I just
could not help
myself in bringing it to your attention.
>
> > I thought you disliked him intensely!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> You made that up, then built a ramshackle conclusion or two. Remember
> that you once studied logick ...
>
> > You are not supposed to have your cake and eat it!!!!!!!
>
> You made that up.
>
> > > > > > all minor personalities living in the heavens with you.
>
> > > > > Oh.
>
> > > > > If you can give me their addresses I could visit.
>
> > > > Can I come with you?????
>
> > > You know the way to the heavens?
>
> > No I don't but since it seems to me you live in the Heavens
> > then you could be my spiritual guide.
>
> I don't know the addresses.
>
> > A Dantesque daemon perhaps????
>
> Or not...
>
> > > > > > Get over it>
>
> > > > > > > > you just can't help yourself
> > > > > > > > having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
>
> > > > > > > ~Try~ making the ~distinction~, Bruno, between "having a go at Ben"
> > > > > > > and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
> > > > > > > (And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
> > > > > > > Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
Chapter , Verse!!!!
>
> > > > > > No need to Muse, you just like making up excuses and rationalizing
> > > > > > your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
>
> > > > > Rosenbergism promotes ~distinctions~, Bruno.
>
> > > > Bully for your boyfriend.
>
> > > Not that rosenbergism discovered or invented or pioneeered the idea
> > > of ~distinguishing~...
>
> > AAHHAaa
>
> > Did he plagiarize it from someone???????
>
> Inevitably.
>
> > Wonder who it was??
>
> Why not find out? -- The classical Romans had a verb "distinguere" --
> to distinguish.
education??????
>
> > Bet you Ellen knows it was her mentor El Ron maybe ????
>
> For homework: find out whether a former incarnation of ElRon hung
> round the Roman Republic.
>
> > > > > But you know better than to use such logical tools, no doubt...
>
> > > > > > > > What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> > > > > > > > saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
>
> > > > > > > You think that because Ben (and your idolization thereof) causes so
> > > > > > > much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
> > > > > > > up~ ! ...
>
> > > > > > No I didn't.
>
> > > > > Yes you did.
>
> > > > > > Just look at all your covert negative postings.
> > > > > > Its all there Muse for everyone to see.
>
> > > > > Show me an example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of my
> > > > > good friend and colleague Ben. Put up or shut up, Bruno.
>
> > > > Just read the tone of all your posting Muse.
>
> > > Some of my postings don't even mention Ben. Others have varied tone.
> > > Give a specific example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of
> > > my good friend and colleague Ben. Do it quick or no-one will believe
> > > you.
>
> > Nuh everyone knows you hate Ben with a passion.
>
> Yiou made that up too.
Why don't you call a spade a spade and tell Ben directly how you feel
about him so
everyone in the group including myself may hear it directly from your
seductive incantive lips.
If I have erred once again I will take it back.
>
> > Is it because he lived his life with no regrets, repaired some of his
> > faults and moved on?????
>
> The question does not arise.
>
> > That' s what I like about Ben , he is humble, is having a great time
> > and living life to the fullest.
>
> Evidence?
Its in the heavens Muse, in your abode.
> > Is it because he lived his life with no regrets, repaired some of his
> > faults and moved on?????
>
> The question does not arise.
>
> > That' s what I like about Ben , he is humble, is having a great time
> > and living life to the fullest.
>
> Evidence?
>
> > I have a respect for Ben,
>
> > 1. Because he is older than I am ( I was taught to respect my Elders)
> > 2.Because he seems to have bigger " Coyones " than me
>
> "seems"...
>
> > through his
> > adventurous sailing and water rafting exploits, and other exciting
> > events
> > he has not told us about.
>
> ... but which conveniently assume. Without a shred of evidence...
Don't know what kind of evidence you are seeking Muse.
> > I have a respect for Ben,
>
> > 1. Because he is older than I am ( I was taught to respect my Elders)
> > 2.Because he seems to have bigger " Coyones " than me
>
> "seems"...
>
> > through his
> > adventurous sailing and water rafting exploits, and other exciting
> > events
> > he has not told us about.
>
> ... but which conveniently assume. Without a shred of evidence...
Do you have any evidence to doubt any of Ben's posts???
>
> > 3 , From his postings he is a down to earth guy, comfortable in his
> > own skin, in a wonderful relationship, with good family ties.
>
> From his postings, we cannot tell the ~distinguish~ between ~story~-
> one and ~story~-two.
>
> > Is there anything else that could be missing?????
>
> Independent evidence of your artificial fantasies.
fact that
he enjoyed Est and sailing with Werner.
His main critics were the passionate Ellen and the seductive Muse
Nordslop and to this day
I can't figure out what Ben said that may have been anathema to those
ladies?????
>
> > I think that' s what you are envious about???
>
> You detect envy? Where?
Everywhere Muse in the tone of your posts
> > I think that' s what you are envious about???
>
> You detect envy? Where?
>
> > Stand to be corrected!!!!
>
> > > > > > > > And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
> > > > > > > > jerker"
>
> > > > > > > Huh?
>
> > > > > > Don't feign ignorance Muse.
> > > > > > You were caught and identified by Ben correctly of what you are.
> > > > > > Namely a CJ. period.
>
> > > > > Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where did he "catch me out"?
>
> > > > Okay if that' s how you see it fine.
> > > > Lets agree that Ben expressed an opinion that caught you out as a CJ
> > > > period.
>
> > > Let's agree that Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where specifically did he
> > > "catch me out"?
>
> > Good. He expressed an opinion that you were a CJ. period.
> > Good enough for me!!!!!!!!!!!
> > Can I prove it.
> > No Don't need to it fits in with my prejudices and beliefs .
>
> Can he prove the validity of his opinion? (He hasn't bothered with
> such trivia so far...)
And its not trivia but a balanced evaluation of many of your
postings!!!!
>
> > > > > > > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > > > > > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> > > > > > > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > > > > > > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > > > > > What debate???????????????????
>
> > > > > On the nature of rosenbergism.
>
> > > > Is that what it is?????
> > > > Never would have thought so.
>
> > > See:
>
> > >https://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.landmark/about
>
> > > which says of alt.fan.landmark: "Description What is The Forum ?"
>
> > Well whatever you may have presented
>
> ... or may not have presented... (Did you make up what you thought I
> presented? Or do you have something quotable and specific in mind?)
>
> > wasn't what I experienced and
> > saw.
> > That' s why some of us speak up when tall tales are being spoken
> > about.!!!!!!
>
> Such as which?
Have you met that deadly daemon in the heavens???????
The Monty Python crew got rather friendly with him and a few have
already joined
the selected group.
Cheers
Having a heatwave here in Melbourne so going to try my luck at water
skiing tomorrow in a friends boat
Have pulled out some water skis from under the house that may be at
least 40 years old.
The guys in the Ski shop were not even born when these water skis were
manufactured
and they were all amazed to see them.
I just want to be able to get out of the water and float on top of
the water just like you do in the heavens.
cheers till next time.
tubby
Mar 8, 2013, 7:47:24 AM3/8/13
to
>
> > What evidence can you present to bolster your point of view???
>
> Circumstantial wolf-children.
>
> As opposed to taught morality.
>
> And thus back to the former question: who taught you the idea of
> personal ~responsibility~ for one's own behavior?
>
> > > > > How would you prove whether responsibility for personal bebavior comes
> > > > > with maturity, Bruno?
>
> > > > Don't need to prove anything my dear Muse.
> > > > Just use your common sense.
>
> You don't need to prove anything, but HOW would you prove whether
> responsibility for personal behavior comes with maturity, Bruno?
I don't know Muse.
> And thus back to the former question: who taught you the idea of
> personal ~responsibility~ for one's own behavior?
>
> > > > > How would you prove whether responsibility for personal bebavior comes
> > > > > with maturity, Bruno?
>
> > > > Don't need to prove anything my dear Muse.
> > > > Just use your common sense.
>
> You don't need to prove anything, but HOW would you prove whether
> responsibility for personal behavior comes with maturity, Bruno?
Maybe you could help here.
>
> > > > > Anyway: back to the question: who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > > > You did my amorous Muse.
>
> > > Where did I ever preach ~responsibility~? Quote me!
>
> > Was it your boyfriend Werner maybe, or was it my religious
> > instructions???
> > Who knows??????
>
> If you can't or won't quote me, I reject the suggestion that I
> preached ~responsibility~.
heavens~~~~~~~~~~
>
> > > > I have a sense of guilt whenever I reply to your insightful questions
> > > > that I feel
> > > > I have to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness.
> > > > It's a feeling Muse I don't know whether you would understand or feel
> > > > anything for that matter.?????
>
> > > How many shamans have you discussed this with, Bruno?
>
> > No one presently however on my next Ayawaska trip I will bring it to
> > the attention
> > of the Shaman when he is blowing smoke up my nose and wailing and
> > waxing in the Music.
>
> > I will mention the name Nordstruuup to see what Daimons he brings up.
>
> ~Try~ some numerology ~transformations~ while at it...
I will also try speaking to God.
I said a few Our Fathers the other night when I was walking the dog.
It was a clear starry night as I tried to reframe my mind and open my
Psyche
to the Universe.
No such luck.
The number seemed engaged all the time
Cheers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Good night dear Muse.
bentot
Mar 8, 2013, 10:26:02 AM3/8/13
to
On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 04:36:40 -0800 (PST), tubby <bton...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Bruno,
I made one comical attempt to water in ski while in the Philippines.
There I was, tearing along under water in a cloud of bubbles, trying
to collect enough sense to tell my hands to let go of the damn rope!
One ski went North, the other South. Never saw them again.
Ten years later, I learned to downhill snow ski. I was much more
successful. Still had an occasion or two when the ski(s) made
independent trips to other parts! I hated the laughs and snickers
from the chair lift and the yell to the folks up-slope, "Bring his
gear down!"!
During the same period, I was learning the whitwater rafting/kayaking
sport. I would ski in the snowy Sierras one weeked and raft the
foothill rivers the next.
Those were good times!
When we made our down-sizing move last year, I gave away all my
whitewater and skiing gear. Sigh.. sniff..sniff :-(
Enjoy your summer!
bentot
wrote:
I made one comical attempt to water in ski while in the Philippines.
There I was, tearing along under water in a cloud of bubbles, trying
to collect enough sense to tell my hands to let go of the damn rope!
One ski went North, the other South. Never saw them again.
Ten years later, I learned to downhill snow ski. I was much more
successful. Still had an occasion or two when the ski(s) made
independent trips to other parts! I hated the laughs and snickers
from the chair lift and the yell to the folks up-slope, "Bring his
gear down!"!
During the same period, I was learning the whitwater rafting/kayaking
sport. I would ski in the snowy Sierras one weeked and raft the
foothill rivers the next.
Those were good times!
When we made our down-sizing move last year, I gave away all my
whitewater and skiing gear. Sigh.. sniff..sniff :-(
Enjoy your summer!
bentot
Serena Nordstrup
Mar 9, 2013, 6:59:44 AM3/9/13
to
the headers of my postings in the archives. Without obligation, free,
gratis and for nothing. Please send any expressions of appreciation
alt.fan.landmark.
> > > > > > And for how many years have you greeted the arrival of each exemplar
> > > > > > of my posting header with joy and acclaim?
>
> > > > > I always get excited when I read your postings. Can't understand them
> > > > > but I still get
> > > > > excited.
>
> > > > So how many years?
>
> > > Dunno it seems like yesterday to me.
>
> > Count.
>
> > > I've been married to my lovely wife for 40+
>
> > See, you can count.
>
> > > I'm just as passionate as I was when I first met her.
> > > Correction half as passionate but still passionate.
> > > It seems like yesterday to me!!!!!
>
> > > > > > > but who cares whether its strip ,
> > > > > > > strep, strap or strup,
>
> > > > > > Dunno who cares. But spare a thought for future archaeologists,
> > > > > > unfamiliar with Strine, who may ~try~ in the cause of identity to
> > > > > > disentangle the various people involved - Bruno/Tubby, Nordstrop/
> > > > > > Nordstrup, Erhard/Rosenberg/VonSavage/Frost/Spits ...
>
> > > > > No thought on my part Muse ,
>
> > > > First you think, and then you don't... How very human!
>
> > > Glad you approve of humanity.
>
> > or glad if I despise it?
>
> What do you mean???
(but perhaps more likely) counter-inference, OK?
> > > Is it any different in the heavens??????
>
> > I gather (not from first-hand ~experience~) that most of the heavens
> > lack conventional humanity. But since you made up the heavens bit,
> > tell the ~story~ your way...
>
> > > > > I try live in the moment.
> > > > > The here and Now!!!
>
> > > > Consider how much you may miss out on by restricting yourself to the
> > > > merely Now !
>
> > > Hang on Muse you are now quoting your boyfriend Werner!!!!!!!!
>
> > Chapter? Verse?
>
> What you have said namely
>
> " Every now has intense links with the future as well as with the
> past."
words?
> Funny that how you plagiarize from your boyfriend Werner when it suits
> you
> and not acknowledge it.
> Your boyfriend Werner I assume is the forgiving kind , however I just
> could not help
> myself in bringing it to your attention.
assertion...
> > > I thought you disliked him intensely!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > You made that up, then built a ramshackle conclusion or two. Remember
> > that you once studied logick ...
>
> > > You are not supposed to have your cake and eat it!!!!!!!
>
> > You made that up.
>
> > > > > > > all minor personalities living in the heavens with you.
>
> > > > > > Oh.
>
> > > > > > If you can give me their addresses I could visit.
>
> > > > > Can I come with you?????
>
> > > > You know the way to the heavens?
>
> > > No I don't but since it seems to me you live in the Heavens
> > > then you could be my spiritual guide.
>
> > I don't know the addresses.
>
> > > A Dantesque daemon perhaps????
>
> > Or not...
>
> > > > > > > Get over it>
>
> > > > > > > > > you just can't help yourself
> > > > > > > > > having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
>
> > > > > > > > ~Try~ making the ~distinction~, Bruno, between "having a go at Ben"
> > > > > > > > and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
> > > > > > > > (And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
> > > > > > > > Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
>
> Where is your evidence Muse????
and relevant? Does an ~invitation~ profit from evidence.
> Chapter , Verse!!!!
Just suppose some nameless person were to tell me to piss up a rope.
What role might evidence play in that ~invitation~?
> > > > > > > No need to Muse, you just like making up excuses and rationalizing
> > > > > > > your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
>
> > > > > > Rosenbergism promotes ~distinctions~, Bruno.
>
> > > > > Bully for your boyfriend.
>
> > > > Not that rosenbergism discovered or invented or pioneeered the idea
> > > > of ~distinguishing~...
>
> > > AAHHAaa
>
> > > Did he plagiarize it from someone???????
>
> > Inevitably.
>
> > > Wonder who it was??
>
> > Why not find out? -- The classical Romans had a verb "distinguere" --
> > to distinguish.
>
> Fine however how many people have had the opportunity for a Classical
> education??????
etymology of the word ~distinguish~ and ferret out the Latin word
"distinguere".
(Though some rosenbergists might ~choose~ to use dictionaries for
other ~possibilities~...)
> > > Bet you Ellen knows it was her mentor El Ron maybe ????
>
> > For homework: find out whether a former incarnation of ElRon hung
> > round the Roman Republic.
>
> Not interested Muse but Ellen may be????? or Patrick.
in the history of ~distinguishing~...
> > > > > > But you know better than to use such logical tools, no doubt...
>
> > > > > > > > > What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> > > > > > > > > saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
>
> > > > > > > > You think that because Ben (and your idolization thereof) causes so
> > > > > > > > much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
> > > > > > > > up~ ! ...
>
> > > > > > > No I didn't.
>
> > > > > > Yes you did.
>
> > > > > > > Just look at all your covert negative postings.
> > > > > > > Its all there Muse for everyone to see.
>
> > > > > > Show me an example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of my
> > > > > > good friend and colleague Ben. Put up or shut up, Bruno.
>
> > > > > Just read the tone of all your posting Muse.
>
> > > > Some of my postings don't even mention Ben. Others have varied tone.
> > > > Give a specific example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of
> > > > my good friend and colleague Ben. Do it quick or no-one will believe
> > > > you.
>
> > > Nuh everyone knows you hate Ben with a passion.
>
> > Yiou made that up too.
>
> No not at all.
admit you made up the ~story~ that I allegedly hate Ben with a
passion.
> Why don't you call a spade a spade and tell Ben directly how you feel
> about him so
> everyone in the group including myself may hear it directly from your
> seductive incantive lips.
rosenbergism.
> If I have erred once again I will take it back.
> > > Is it because he lived his life with no regrets, repaired some of his
> > > faults and moved on?????
>
> > The question does not arise.
>
> > > That' s what I like about Ben , he is humble, is having a great time
> > > and living life to the fullest.
>
> > Evidence?
>
> Its in the heavens Muse, in your abode.
> > > I have a respect for Ben,
>
> > > 1. Because he is older than I am ( I was taught to respect my Elders)
> > > 2.Because he seems to have bigger " Coyones " than me
>
> > "seems"...
>
> > > through his
> > > adventurous sailing and water rafting exploits, and other exciting
> > > events
> > > he has not told us about.
>
> > ... but which conveniently assume. Without a shred of evidence...
>
> Don't know what kind of evidence you are seeking Muse.
> Do you have any evidence to doubt any of Ben's posts???
believe everything people wrote in cyberspace.
> > > 3 , From his postings he is a down to earth guy, comfortable in his
> > > own skin, in a wonderful relationship, with good family ties.
>
> > From his postings, we cannot tell the ~distinguish~ between ~story~-
> > one and ~story~-two.
>
> > > Is there anything else that could be missing?????
>
> > Independent evidence of your artificial fantasies.
>
> No one here has objected to anything Ben has posted apart from the
> fact that
> he enjoyed Est and sailing with Werner.
objection.
Did you make up the ~story~ of the alleged objection as a straw-man
argument?
> His main critics were the passionate Ellen and the seductive Muse
> Nordslop and to this day
> I can't figure out what Ben said that may have been anathema to those
> ladies?????
> > > I think that' s what you are envious about???
>
> > You detect envy? Where?
>
> Everywhere Muse in the tone of your posts
> > > Stand to be corrected!!!!
>
> > > > > > > > > And Ben catching you out clearly identifying you you as a " Circle
> > > > > > > > > jerker"
>
> > > > > > > > Huh?
>
> > > > > > > Don't feign ignorance Muse.
> > > > > > > You were caught and identified by Ben correctly of what you are.
> > > > > > > Namely a CJ. period.
>
> > > > > > Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where did he "catch me out"?
>
> > > > > Okay if that' s how you see it fine.
> > > > > Lets agree that Ben expressed an opinion that caught you out as a CJ
> > > > > period.
>
> > > > Let's agree that Ben expressed an ~opinion~. Where specifically did he
> > > > "catch me out"?
>
> > > Good. He expressed an opinion that you were a CJ. period.
> > > Good enough for me!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > Can I prove it.
> > > No Don't need to it fits in with my prejudices and beliefs .
>
> > Can he prove the validity of his opinion? (He hasn't bothered with
> > such trivia so far...)
>
> He is too much of a gentleman Muse.
> And its not trivia but a balanced evaluation of many of your
> postings!!!!
omission of proof...
> > > > > > > > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > > > > > > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> > > > > > > > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > > > > > > > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > > > > > > What debate???????????????????
>
> > > > > > On the nature of rosenbergism.
>
> > > > > Is that what it is?????
> > > > > Never would have thought so.
>
> > > > See:
>
> > > >https://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.landmark/about
>
> > > > which says of alt.fan.landmark: "Description What is The Forum ?"
>
> > > Well whatever you may have presented
>
> > ... or may not have presented... (Did you make up what you thought I
> > presented? Or do you have something quotable and specific in mind?)
>
> > > wasn't what I experienced and
> > > saw.
> > > That' s why some of us speak up when tall tales are being spoken
> > > about.!!!!!!
>
> > Such as which?
>
> Too many to list my fair Muse, but its all in the postings!!!
heavens, Bruno.
Serena Nordstrup
Mar 9, 2013, 7:11:47 AM3/9/13
to
If we can't work out how to prove whether responsibility for personal
behavior comes with maturity, what use speculating that responsibility
for personal behavior comes with maturity?
> > > > > > Anyway: back to the question: who taught you that idea, Bruno?
>
> > > > > You did my amorous Muse.
>
> > > > Where did I ever preach ~responsibility~? Quote me!
>
> > > Was it your boyfriend Werner maybe, or was it my religious
> > > instructions???
> > > Who knows??????
>
> > If you can't or won't quote me, I reject the suggestion that I
> > preached ~responsibility~.
>
> Okay calm down Muse , you are upsetting the other Muses in the
> heavens~~~~~~~~~~
suggestion that I preached ~responsibility~.
> > > > > I have a sense of guilt whenever I reply to your insightful questions
> > > > > that I feel
> > > > > I have to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness.
> > > > > It's a feeling Muse I don't know whether you would understand or feel
> > > > > anything for that matter.?????
>
> > > > How many shamans have you discussed this with, Bruno?
>
> > > No one presently however on my next Ayawaska trip I will bring it to
> > > the attention
> > > of the Shaman when he is blowing smoke up my nose and wailing and
> > > waxing in the Music.
>
> > > I will mention the name Nordstruuup to see what Daimons he brings up.
>
> > ~Try~ some numerology ~transformations~ while at it...
>
> Oh I hadn't thought of that, Good point Muse thank You.
>
> I will also try speaking to God.
> I said a few Our Fathers the other night when I was walking the dog.
> It was a clear starry night as I tried to reframe my mind and open my
> Psyche
> to the Universe.
> No such luck.
> The number seemed engaged all the time
Doesn't seem like a fruitful approach, then...
> > > > > that I feel
> > > > > I have to get on my knees and beg for forgiveness.
> > > > > It's a feeling Muse I don't know whether you would understand or feel
> > > > > anything for that matter.?????
>
> > > > How many shamans have you discussed this with, Bruno?
>
> > > No one presently however on my next Ayawaska trip I will bring it to
> > > the attention
> > > of the Shaman when he is blowing smoke up my nose and wailing and
> > > waxing in the Music.
>
> > > I will mention the name Nordstruuup to see what Daimons he brings up.
>
> > ~Try~ some numerology ~transformations~ while at it...
>
> Oh I hadn't thought of that, Good point Muse thank You.
>
> I will also try speaking to God.
> I said a few Our Fathers the other night when I was walking the dog.
> It was a clear starry night as I tried to reframe my mind and open my
> Psyche
> to the Universe.
> No such luck.
> The number seemed engaged all the time
tubby
Mar 10, 2013, 7:21:40 PM3/10/13
to
On Mar 9, 2:26 am, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 04:36:40 -0800 (PST), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
Hey Ben,
I went into the water with some confidence but unfortunately for me
I was wearing a Gucci life vest that was useless in keeping my head
above water,
and I nearly half drowned just trying to keep myself afloat apart from
trying to align my skis
and prepare myself to get pulled out of the water.
I had forgotten how easy it is to exhaust your energies in trying to
gain some control in setting
yourself up, and when the rope came past me I grabbed it like an idiot
and of course that dragged me along head first
and that was the end of me.
I place my hand up and said get me out of the water I'm done for!!!!!
But I'm looking forward to borrow a better vest from my son who
does kite surfing so I am happy to have another go when the
opportunity arises again.
It was disappointing but still exciting to have another go. Not that I
was a great water skier in the past ,
but I could get up out of the water and it was great fun to ski
behind the boat.
Oh well there is dancing this Tuesday and that also gets tough at
times trying to remember all those new rock steps as you twirl
your partner around with great care that you don't disjoint or break
her arm.
That 's also a humbling experience especially when you don't get it,
and your mind just goes blank as you lose the rhythm,the move
and the partner , whilst the people around you look so cool and
relaxed as they elegantly dance in unison. .
It's unfortunate our resident Muse Nordstruuup is so cool and
sooooopphisticated that she does not understand how it feels to be
green and learning. She is just so perfect and all knowing.
Forum was like that in many places where you entered an unfamiliar
world and where you often ate humble pie and tried to figure out
what was going on to bring you back on an even keel once again.
What's that saying " When you are green you look forward to becoming
ripe, however when you are ripe after some excitement the only thing
starring you straight in the face is becoming rotten!!!!!!
Well it us mere mortals that have to confront this n our daily lives,
whilst the Muses in the heavens must have other challenges.
Good luck to you Ben, always enjoy reading your posts.
The Muse claims she does also, as she hails you as a good friend and
learned companion??????
I don't believe her.
Don't have any evidence apart from my reading of her posts and my
gut feel.
Regards bruno
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 04:36:40 -0800 (PST), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
I went into the water with some confidence but unfortunately for me
I was wearing a Gucci life vest that was useless in keeping my head
above water,
and I nearly half drowned just trying to keep myself afloat apart from
trying to align my skis
and prepare myself to get pulled out of the water.
I had forgotten how easy it is to exhaust your energies in trying to
gain some control in setting
yourself up, and when the rope came past me I grabbed it like an idiot
and of course that dragged me along head first
and that was the end of me.
I place my hand up and said get me out of the water I'm done for!!!!!
But I'm looking forward to borrow a better vest from my son who
does kite surfing so I am happy to have another go when the
opportunity arises again.
It was disappointing but still exciting to have another go. Not that I
was a great water skier in the past ,
but I could get up out of the water and it was great fun to ski
behind the boat.
Oh well there is dancing this Tuesday and that also gets tough at
times trying to remember all those new rock steps as you twirl
your partner around with great care that you don't disjoint or break
her arm.
That 's also a humbling experience especially when you don't get it,
and your mind just goes blank as you lose the rhythm,the move
and the partner , whilst the people around you look so cool and
relaxed as they elegantly dance in unison. .
It's unfortunate our resident Muse Nordstruuup is so cool and
sooooopphisticated that she does not understand how it feels to be
green and learning. She is just so perfect and all knowing.
Forum was like that in many places where you entered an unfamiliar
world and where you often ate humble pie and tried to figure out
what was going on to bring you back on an even keel once again.
What's that saying " When you are green you look forward to becoming
ripe, however when you are ripe after some excitement the only thing
starring you straight in the face is becoming rotten!!!!!!
Well it us mere mortals that have to confront this n our daily lives,
whilst the Muses in the heavens must have other challenges.
Good luck to you Ben, always enjoy reading your posts.
The Muse claims she does also, as she hails you as a good friend and
learned companion??????
I don't believe her.
Don't have any evidence apart from my reading of her posts and my
gut feel.
Regards bruno
tubby
Mar 10, 2013, 7:25:09 PM3/10/13
to
On Mar 9, 2:26 am, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 04:36:40 -0800 (PST), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
Don't get it?????
bentot
Mar 12, 2013, 10:38:56 PM3/12/13
to
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:21:40 -0700 (PDT), tubby <bton...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Bruno
Speaking of eating humble pie.... here is one of the several
"desserts" I've had to eat.........
After having become an experience whitewater rafter, another middle
aged friend and I noted that we never saw any kayakers our age 9mid
forties) on the rivers. So, we took that as challenge and
participated in a series of classes to learn the sport. After being
newly minted, we joined a group of kayakers and canoers (all
strangers) to run a little class-two river as baptism into the sport.
While preparing to head down the first rapid, I noted that one of the
canoe guys was playing his canoe in a little eddyl. I nervously asked
him if he felt he could run the rapid OK. He said he could. So, I
uttered these famous last word, "Good, I can run any rapid a canoeist
can!" At the time, I had no appreciation for how skilled some
canoeist are in whitewater! Shortly, my partner and I confidently
headed down river. I immediately capsized in the first rapid,
couldn't get rolled up on a couple tries, so had to exit the kayak. In
the melee, my helmet parted company and went down river. I swam the
kayak to the bank and, since I lost my helmet, aborted the rest of my
run. My partner had the same luck and met me on the bank. Still
having all his gear, he prepared to continue. Told him I would bring
his van to the takeout. I loaded my gear on the van was starting the
drive out when I faintly herd in the distance his yell to wait. He
was dragging his kayak with one hand and the other was by his side
with the little finger pointing 90 degrees the wrong way. He had
dislocated it trying to fit his spray skirt over the seal ring of the
kayak. Obviously, he had to abort, also.
So, very embarrassed, we humbly drove home. I bet the rest of the
kayakers/canoers on that run had a raucous laugh over my famous last
words and the two novice 'yakers"!
So, we took some more lessons. I was never became really good at it.
My partner became very accomplished. Enough so that he has kayaked
the Grand Canyon (240 miles) twice that I know of. My sweetheart was
very relieved when I finally got rid of my two kayaks and associated
gear. It was another 15 years before I unloaded the two rafts and
gear. All I have left is now a tattered swim suit, a lot of neat
photos, a pile memento T-shirts and some neat stories to tell my grand
kids.!! ;-))
There's an appropriate saying for those famous last words. "Don't let
your alligator mouth overload your humming bird ass!"
Humble pie...ptooie...ptooie!!
Cheers, bentot
wrote:
Speaking of eating humble pie.... here is one of the several
"desserts" I've had to eat.........
After having become an experience whitewater rafter, another middle
aged friend and I noted that we never saw any kayakers our age 9mid
forties) on the rivers. So, we took that as challenge and
participated in a series of classes to learn the sport. After being
newly minted, we joined a group of kayakers and canoers (all
strangers) to run a little class-two river as baptism into the sport.
While preparing to head down the first rapid, I noted that one of the
canoe guys was playing his canoe in a little eddyl. I nervously asked
him if he felt he could run the rapid OK. He said he could. So, I
uttered these famous last word, "Good, I can run any rapid a canoeist
can!" At the time, I had no appreciation for how skilled some
canoeist are in whitewater! Shortly, my partner and I confidently
headed down river. I immediately capsized in the first rapid,
couldn't get rolled up on a couple tries, so had to exit the kayak. In
the melee, my helmet parted company and went down river. I swam the
kayak to the bank and, since I lost my helmet, aborted the rest of my
run. My partner had the same luck and met me on the bank. Still
having all his gear, he prepared to continue. Told him I would bring
his van to the takeout. I loaded my gear on the van was starting the
drive out when I faintly herd in the distance his yell to wait. He
was dragging his kayak with one hand and the other was by his side
with the little finger pointing 90 degrees the wrong way. He had
dislocated it trying to fit his spray skirt over the seal ring of the
kayak. Obviously, he had to abort, also.
So, very embarrassed, we humbly drove home. I bet the rest of the
kayakers/canoers on that run had a raucous laugh over my famous last
words and the two novice 'yakers"!
So, we took some more lessons. I was never became really good at it.
My partner became very accomplished. Enough so that he has kayaked
the Grand Canyon (240 miles) twice that I know of. My sweetheart was
very relieved when I finally got rid of my two kayaks and associated
gear. It was another 15 years before I unloaded the two rafts and
gear. All I have left is now a tattered swim suit, a lot of neat
photos, a pile memento T-shirts and some neat stories to tell my grand
kids.!! ;-))
There's an appropriate saying for those famous last words. "Don't let
your alligator mouth overload your humming bird ass!"
Humble pie...ptooie...ptooie!!
Cheers, bentot
Serena Nordstrup
Mar 13, 2013, 4:37:16 AM3/13/13
to
"everyone knows" fails at the first hurdle.
them to arise...
> It was disappointing but still exciting to have another go. Not that I
> was a great water skier in the past ,
> but I could get up out of the water and it was great fun to ski
> behind the boat.
>
> Oh well there is dancing this Tuesday and that also gets tough at
> times trying to remember all those new rock steps as you twirl
> your partner around with great care that you don't disjoint or break
> her arm.
>
> That 's also a humbling experience especially when you don't get it,
> and your mind just goes blank as you lose the rhythm,the move
> and the partner , whilst the people around you look so cool and
> relaxed as they elegantly dance in unison. .
>
> It's unfortunate our resident Muse Nordstruuup is so cool and
> sooooopphisticated that she does not understand how it feels to be
> green and learning.
> She is just so perfect and all knowing.
> Forum was like that in many places where you entered an unfamiliar
> world and where you often ate humble pie and tried to figure out
> what was going on to bring you back on an even keel once again.
>
> What's that saying " When you are green you look forward to becoming
> ripe, however when you are ripe after some excitement the only thing
> starring you straight in the face is becoming rotten!!!!!!
>
> Well it us mere mortals that have to confront this n our daily lives,
> whilst the Muses in the heavens must have other challenges.
>
> Good luck to you Ben, always enjoy reading your posts.
>
> The Muse claims she does also, as she hails you as a good friend and
> learned companion??????
> I don't believe her.
>
> Don't have any evidence apart from my reading of her posts and my
> gut feel.
reading of posts from some fictional "Muse" ?
> Regards bruno
Serena Nordstrup
Mar 13, 2013, 5:36:41 AM3/13/13
to
you ask?
> Don't get it?????
Pavlovism?
Back to the question: would you, Bruno, ~experience~ gladness if I
were to despise humanity ?
thetroubl...@gmail.com
Mar 13, 2013, 12:15:48 PM3/13/13
to
> what i am saying that even though u may have been attacked in some way
There is no inconsiderate irrational behaviour someone slagging Landmark could exhibit on the internet that you would not forgive and overlook Patrick. The enemy of your enemy is always your friend in alt.fan.landmark
>but all the grads are showing the exact same behavior.
> i dont have a blind spot. maybe i do and dont see it.
> its that you and tubby and tex and tom have the same behavior here.
> in some instances it would be possible to remove your names from your posts
> and it would interesting to see if some could tell who was posting.
> one thing landmark has stated in the past is that they will rock u to your
> foundatations, in some instances remove your way of thinking and install
> new thinking.
> its as if they are preparing the grads for battle without any of u knowing it.
patrick
Mar 13, 2013, 10:54:44 PM3/13/13
to
On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:15:48 AM UTC-5, thetroubl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > what i am saying that even though u may have been attacked in some way
>
>
>
>
>
> "may have"? is your head buried in the sand?
>
>
>
> There is no inconsiderate irrational behaviour someone slagging Landmark could exhibit on the internet that you would not forgive and overlook Patrick. The enemy of your enemy is always your friend in alt.fan.landmark
>
>
>
> >but all the grads are showing the exact same behavior.
>
>
>
> if one is going to post at all, what self respecting person would react any other way to attacks and insults one finds in alt.fan.landmark?
>
>
>
> > i dont have a blind spot. maybe i do and dont see it.
>
>
>
> That is the nature of the idea called "blind spots", if one buys into that idea, one accepts that one cannot see them
>
>
>
>
>
> > its that you and tubby and tex and tom have the same behavior here.
>
>
>
>
>
> Appropriate behaviour to irrational baseless criticisms attacks and insults.
>
>
>
>
>
> > in some instances it would be possible to remove your names from your posts
>
>
>
> > and it would interesting to see if some could tell who was posting.
>
>
>
> Same could be said for any discussion where there are two sides to a discussion. What you are saying is in general a truth about all internet groups. So what? It is also and maybe even more true of critics, you all spout the same shit. Considerate rational people are baptized in critic's shit actually.
>
>
>
> > one thing landmark has stated in the past is that they will rock u to your
>
> > foundatations, in some instances remove your way of thinking and install
>
> > new thinking.
>
>
>
> BS.
no, this is the truth, though i understand if it didnt happen ro u or u didnt
> > what i am saying that even though u may have been attacked in some way
>
>
>
>
>
> "may have"? is your head buried in the sand?
>
>
>
> There is no inconsiderate irrational behaviour someone slagging Landmark could exhibit on the internet that you would not forgive and overlook Patrick. The enemy of your enemy is always your friend in alt.fan.landmark
>
>
>
> >but all the grads are showing the exact same behavior.
>
>
>
> if one is going to post at all, what self respecting person would react any other way to attacks and insults one finds in alt.fan.landmark?
>
>
>
> > i dont have a blind spot. maybe i do and dont see it.
>
>
>
> That is the nature of the idea called "blind spots", if one buys into that idea, one accepts that one cannot see them
>
>
>
>
>
> > its that you and tubby and tex and tom have the same behavior here.
>
>
>
>
>
> Appropriate behaviour to irrational baseless criticisms attacks and insults.
>
>
>
>
>
> > in some instances it would be possible to remove your names from your posts
>
>
>
> > and it would interesting to see if some could tell who was posting.
>
>
>
> Same could be said for any discussion where there are two sides to a discussion. What you are saying is in general a truth about all internet groups. So what? It is also and maybe even more true of critics, you all spout the same shit. Considerate rational people are baptized in critic's shit actually.
>
>
>
> > one thing landmark has stated in the past is that they will rock u to your
>
> > foundatations, in some instances remove your way of thinking and install
>
> > new thinking.
>
>
>
> BS.
hear it then its not the truth. it is the truth.
u ever hear of empowering u for good living ?
>
>
>
> > its as if they are preparing the grads for battle without any of u knowing it.
>
>
>
> Only in your imagination Patrick. It has no reality in the real world away from this newsgroup.
heres a hypothetical. what if it were truth. would u think ?
tubby
Mar 14, 2013, 7:32:47 AM3/14/13
to
On Mar 14, 1:54 pm, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:15:48 AM UTC-5, thetroubl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > what i am saying that even though u may have been attacked in some way
>
> > "may have"? is your head buried in the sand?
>
> > There is no inconsiderate irrational behaviour someone slagging Landmark could exhibit on the internet that you would not forgive and overlook Patrick. The enemy of your enemy is always your friend in alt.fan.landmark
>
> > >but all the grads are showing the exact same behavior.
>
> > if one is going to post at all, what self respecting person would react any other way to attacks and insults one finds in alt.fan.landmark?
>
> > > i dont have a blind spot. maybe i do and dont see it.
>
> > That is the nature of the idea called "blind spots", if one buys into that idea, one accepts that one cannot see them
>
> > > its that you and tubby and tex and tom have the same behavior here.
>
> > Appropriate behaviour to irrational baseless criticisms attacks and insults.
>
> > > in some instances it would be possible to remove your names from your posts
>
> > > and it would interesting to see if some could tell who was posting.
>
> > Same could be said for any discussion where there are two sides to a discussion. What you are saying is in general a truth about all internet groups. So what? It is also and maybe even more true of critics, you all spout the same shit. Considerate rational people are baptized in critic's shit actually.
>
> > > one thing landmark has stated in the past is that they will rock u to your
>
> > > foundatations, in some instances remove your way of thinking and install
>
> > > new thinking.
>
> > BS.
>
> no, this is the truth, though i understand if it didnt happen ro u or u didnt
> hear it then its not the truth. it is the truth.
>
> u ever hear of empowering u for good livin> *
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:15:48 AM UTC-5, thetroubl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > what i am saying that even though u may have been attacked in some way
>
> > "may have"? is your head buried in the sand?
>
> > There is no inconsiderate irrational behaviour someone slagging Landmark could exhibit on the internet that you would not forgive and overlook Patrick. The enemy of your enemy is always your friend in alt.fan.landmark
>
> > >but all the grads are showing the exact same behavior.
>
> > if one is going to post at all, what self respecting person would react any other way to attacks and insults one finds in alt.fan.landmark?
>
> > > i dont have a blind spot. maybe i do and dont see it.
>
> > That is the nature of the idea called "blind spots", if one buys into that idea, one accepts that one cannot see them
>
> > > its that you and tubby and tex and tom have the same behavior here.
>
> > Appropriate behaviour to irrational baseless criticisms attacks and insults.
>
> > > in some instances it would be possible to remove your names from your posts
>
> > > and it would interesting to see if some could tell who was posting.
>
> > Same could be said for any discussion where there are two sides to a discussion. What you are saying is in general a truth about all internet groups. So what? It is also and maybe even more true of critics, you all spout the same shit. Considerate rational people are baptized in critic's shit actually.
>
> > > one thing landmark has stated in the past is that they will rock u to your
>
> > > foundatations, in some instances remove your way of thinking and install
>
> > > new thinking.
>
> > BS.
>
> no, this is the truth, though i understand if it didnt happen ro u or u didnt
> hear it then its not the truth. it is the truth.
>
>
>
> > > its as if they are preparing the grads for battle without any of u knowing it.
>
> > Only in your imagination Patrick. It has no reality in the real world away from this newsgroup.
>
> in a sense, u are defending the landmark cult. its a beginning.
>
> heres a hypothetical. what if it were truth. would u think ?
Stop making things up Patrick.
>
> > > its as if they are preparing the grads for battle without any of u knowing it.
>
> > Only in your imagination Patrick. It has no reality in the real world away from this newsgroup.
>
> in a sense, u are defending the landmark cult. its a beginning.
>
> heres a hypothetical. what if it were truth. would u think ?
I do not doubt that you had a difficult time whilst in Forum, however
you could also take some responsibility
for your lifestyle and that as far as I can remember you had been
smoking before or after the course????
That does not help matters and I recall the words of my son who said
" Dad when you are high you can't think staright."
I hope you are well
Saw a beautiful deer a few hours ago and thought I wonder whether
that' s Serena prancing through the forest.
The Greek Gods had a habit of changing their being to seduce mere
mortals.
I looked at the deer and I thought wow nice bit of meat and lots of
steaks if I ever get hungry ,
I'll know where to hang out for a good meal.
thetroubl...@gmail.com
Mar 14, 2013, 8:07:00 AM3/14/13
to
> no, this is the truth, though i understand if it didnt happen ro u or u didnt
>
> hear it then its not the truth. it is the truth.
> u ever hear of empowering u for good living ?
> in a sense, u are defending the landmark cult. its a beginning.
> heres a hypothetical. what if it were truth. would u think ?
tubby
Mar 14, 2013, 8:33:09 AM3/14/13
to
out in the open
for the rest of the group to see how you made that judgement.
I know you are a Muse however you are not God.!!!!!!
>
> > > > Is it any different in the heavens??????
>
> > > I gather (not from first-hand ~experience~) that most of the heavens
> > > lack conventional humanity. But since you made up the heavens bit,
> > > tell the ~story~ your way...
>
> > > > > > I try live in the moment.
> > > > > > The here and Now!!!
>
> > > > > Consider how much you may miss out on by restricting yourself to the
> > > > > merely Now !
>
> > > > Hang on Muse you are now quoting your boyfriend Werner!!!!!!!!
>
> > > Chapter? Verse?
>
> > What you have said namely
>
> > " Every now has intense links with the future as well as with the
> > past."
>
> And where (chapter and verse) dis Jack Rosenberg quote me in my own
> words?
>
> > Funny that how you plagiarize from your boyfriend Werner when it suits
> > you
> > and not acknowledge it.
>
> Ever heard of the ~possibility~ of irony, Bruno?
You just want your cake and eat it also.
BS!!!!!!!
>
> > Your boyfriend Werner I assume is the forgiving kind , however I just
> > could not help
> > myself in bringing it to your attention.
>
> Except you haven't brought anything to my attention beyond an unproven
> assertion...
If you know anything about Forum Est its all about the past, present
and future.
Don't feign ignorance Muse as Ben correctly observed and evaluated you
are C. once again.>!!!!!!!!
>
> > > > I thought you disliked him intensely!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > > You made that up, then built a ramshackle conclusion or two. Remember
> > > that you once studied logick ...
Academic logic is pure bullshit created for the heaven's and Muses
> > > > I thought you disliked him intensely!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > > You made that up, then built a ramshackle conclusion or two. Remember
> > > that you once studied logick ...
such as yourself.
>
> > > > You are not supposed to have your cake and eat it!!!!!!!
>
> > > You made that up.
>
> > > > > > > > all minor personalities living in the heavens with you.
>
> > > > > > > Oh.
>
> > > > > > > If you can give me their addresses I could visit.
>
> > > > > > Can I come with you?????
>
> > > > > You know the way to the heavens?
>
> > > > No I don't but since it seems to me you live in the Heavens
> > > > then you could be my spiritual guide.
>
> > > I don't know the addresses.
>
> > > > A Dantesque daemon perhaps????
>
> > > Or not...
>
> > > > > > > > Get over it>
>
> > > > > > > > > > you just can't help yourself
> > > > > > > > > > having a go at Ben and his accomplishments.
>
> > > > > > > > > ~Try~ making the ~distinction~, Bruno, between "having a go at Ben"
> > > > > > > > > and using Ben as an example of someone else's inconsistent behavior...
> > > > > > > > > (And for that matter, making the ~distinction~ between "having a go at
> > > > > > > > > Ben" and pouring scorn on some of Ben's less accomplished ideas...)
>
> > Where is your evidence Muse????
>
> Evidence for what, Bruno? An ~invitation~ that you do something useful
> and relevant? Does an ~invitation~ profit from evidence.
accomplished ideas.
What are they, Let us all know why you behave in such a manner?????
So at least we also can appreciate your perception in these
matters.!!!!!!
>
> > Chapter , Verse!!!!
>
> Just suppose some nameless person were to tell me to piss up a rope.
> What role might evidence play in that ~invitation~?
they happened.
>
> > > > > > > > No need to Muse, you just like making up excuses and rationalizing
> > > > > > > > your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
>
> > > > > > > Rosenbergism promotes ~distinctions~, Bruno.
>
> > > > > > Bully for your boyfriend.
>
> > > > > Not that rosenbergism discovered or invented or pioneeered the idea
> > > > > of ~distinguishing~...
>
> > > > AAHHAaa
>
> > > > Did he plagiarize it from someone???????
>
> > > Inevitably.
>
> > > > Wonder who it was??
>
> > > Why not find out? -- The classical Romans had a verb "distinguere" --
> > > to distinguish.
>
> > Fine however how many people have had the opportunity for a Classical
> > education??????
>
> Many. But so what? Anyone who can read English can look up the
> etymology of the word ~distinguish~ and ferret out the Latin word
> "distinguere".
Ben is the forgiving type.
He did Est remember???
>
> > Why don't you call a spade a spade and tell Ben directly how you feel
> > about him so
> > everyone in the group including myself may hear it directly from your
> > seductive incantive lips.
>
> Because my ~opinion~ of Ben has no relevance to the discussion of
> rosenbergism.
You have been caught with your pants down so own up.
We won't hold it against you.
>
> > If I have erred once again I will take it back.
>
> Provide clear documented proof or take it back. Your ~choice~.
>
> > > > Is it because he lived his life with no regrets, repaired some of his
> > > > faults and moved on?????
>
> > > The question does not arise.
>
> > > > That' s what I like about Ben , he is humble, is having a great time
> > > > and living life to the fullest.
>
> > > Evidence?
>
> > Its in the heavens Muse, in your abode.
>
> For lack of evidence, your view of what Ben ~is~ counts for nothing.
consider.
You are just a Muse not God.
>
> > > > I have a respect for Ben,
>
> > > > 1. Because he is older than I am ( I was taught to respect my Elders)
> > > > 2.Because he seems to have bigger " Coyones " than me
>
> > > "seems"...
>
> > > > through his
> > > > adventurous sailing and water rafting exploits, and other exciting
> > > > events
> > > > he has not told us about.
>
> > > ... but which conveniently assume. Without a shred of evidence...
>
> > Don't know what kind of evidence you are seeking Muse.
>
> Any shred.
>
> > Do you have any evidence to doubt any of Ben's posts???
>
> No evidence at all. But I heard a rumor once that one shouldn't
> believe everything people wrote in cyberspace.
Tell us your doubts otherwise shut up.
>
> > > > 3 , From his postings he is a down to earth guy, comfortable in his
> > > > own skin, in a wonderful relationship, with good family ties.
>
> > > From his postings, we cannot tell the ~distinguish~ between ~story~-
> > > one and ~story~-two.
>
> > > > Is there anything else that could be missing?????
>
> > > Independent evidence of your artificial fantasies.
>
> > No one here has objected to anything Ben has posted apart from the
> > fact that
> > he enjoyed Est and sailing with Werner.
>
> Who objected to this so-called fact. When did anyone post such an
> objection.
>
> > > > > > > > > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > > > > > > > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> > > > > > > > > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > > > > > > > > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > > > > > > > What debate???????????????????
>
> > > > > > > On the nature of rosenbergism.
>
> > > > > > Is that what it is?????
> > > > > > Never would have thought so.
>
> > > > > See:
>
> > > > >https://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.landmark/about
>
> > > > > which says of alt.fan.landmark: "Description What is The Forum ?"
>
> > > > Well whatever you may have presented
>
> > > ... or may not have presented... (Did you make up what you thought I
> > > presented? Or do you have something quotable and specific in mind?)
>
> > > > wasn't what I experienced and
> > > > saw.
> > > > That' s why some of us speak up when tall tales are being spoken
> > > > about.!!!!!!
>
> > > Such as which?
>
> > Too many to list my fair Muse, but its all in the postings!!!
>
> List 15 only then.
Nuh ther most probably is 115 and too many to handle. Don't have the
> > > > > > > > > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > > > > > > > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
>
> > > > > > > > > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > > > > > > > > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > > > > > > > What debate???????????????????
>
> > > > > > > On the nature of rosenbergism.
>
> > > > > > Is that what it is?????
> > > > > > Never would have thought so.
>
> > > > > See:
>
> > > > >https://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.landmark/about
>
> > > > > which says of alt.fan.landmark: "Description What is The Forum ?"
>
> > > > Well whatever you may have presented
>
> > > ... or may not have presented... (Did you make up what you thought I
> > > presented? Or do you have something quotable and specific in mind?)
>
> > > > wasn't what I experienced and
> > > > saw.
> > > > That' s why some of us speak up when tall tales are being spoken
> > > > about.!!!!!!
>
> > > Such as which?
>
> > Too many to list my fair Muse, but its all in the postings!!!
>
> List 15 only then.
time . I" ll leave it to P[atrick or Ellen to figure it out.
days
when life was wonderful and simple and we thought it would never end.
How about your good old days Ms Nordstop.
Can you tell us about them and how you came to despise humanity?????
I have got it right now or have I erred once again???
Did Patrick tell you I nearly bowled over a beautiful meaty deer
tonight.
It was there directly if front of me as I was dashing home for dinner
just a few moments after calling my wife to tell her where I was .
Coming around a wee bend on a dirt track just before I hit the
bitumen road I saw the wonderful healthy meaty doe.,. It looked at me
directly and then sauntered into the Forest elegantly.
The Greek Gods were known to take many forms and for a moment I
pondered.
Who was that???
If I am ever hungry I will know where to hunt for food. Boy that was a
great piece of meat if I ever saw one.
Pity I am not the hunting type.
Anyhow honesty goes a long way Muse.
Think about that
Cheers
Message has been deleted
thetroubl...@gmail.com
Mar 16, 2013, 8:40:14 AM3/16/13
to
Ellen Snortland: Theater Review: Complete – A Hot Mess With Good Intentions
Watching Complete, a new play written by Andrea Kuchlewska, directed by Jennifer Chambers and having its West Coast premiere at the Matrix Theatre in Los Angeles, left me — ironically enough — with the experience of being “ambivalent and incomplete” which may be a more apt title for this play. Billed as a “fast-paced comedy,” the play explores linguistics, blind faith and a controversial enlightenment program developed early in the 1970s called “est”. While the playwright doesn’t name “est” specifically in the play itself, the program and supporting materials makes no bones that she’s really talking about it.
Let me lay a few biases on the table up front: I appreciate rigor in language, as I have earned my Juris Doctorate and passed the California Bar Exam. I’m also a theater person, having run my own theater company for several years. And I’m a humorist, committed to getting more women’s stories onto stage and screen. Both Gloria Steinem and Werner Erhard, the creator of “est” have been major influences in my life. (I was an “early adopter” to both radical feminism and est.) Steinem and Erhard both became punching bags in the mainstream media, I believe for reasons beyond the scope of this review. In my own memoir solo play, Now That She’s Gone, I say, “I must face my cowardice daily to stand up for both of them. But if I can’t stand up for two leaders I love just in case people won’t like me, how would I have been in Anne Frank’s time when the consequences were life and death, not just bad opinions?”
Complete is written beautifully, with lots of fascinating threads weaving in and out, as well as masterfully directed with a deft hand, but the pattern that emerges from the tapestry is wonky, confusing and not comedic. In fact there’s little sense of humor in it all, taking itself WAY too seriously.
The protagonist, Eve, played by Meredith Bishop, comes off as someone who has severe issues that are possibly related to either undiagnosed Asperger’s Syndrome, PTSD from childhood sexual abuse and/or merely someone with a truly wretched personality. Who knows? Whatever the cause, she’s not funny. No one in the audience was laughing at or with this hot mess of a human being.
I really wanted to care about Eve but just couldn’t, even though I admired Bishop for her portrayal of a deeply flawed character. I ended up rooting for Micah, played by Scott Kruse. Micah is Eve’s colleague and companion in their shared graduate program in linguistics. Kruse’s Micah is believable as a geeky guy, overwhelmed by stage fright, who wants to grow and happens to be smitten by Eve. If I were friends with Micah in real life, I’d be tempted to take him aside and say, “Run! This woman is NUTS! She needs serious therapy.” In classic storytelling parlance, Eve’s character has virtually no arc, where Micah’s character does. Eve only goes from bad to worse.
There’s a Zen saying: “You become that which you resist.” Eve rants about her terrible experience with The Program, which she took as a child, then again when she was 16, and finally as an undergraduate while researching a paper for her degree in linguistics. She comes away from the 3rd experience with a severe case of “backlash.” She’s disgusted with the jargon of the program and its damaging misuse of the word “create,” which she at core blames for her life being screwed up — all the while using most of the language and syntax of the program. I felt badly for her, but at the same time put off. She admits she thinks people need to do the program because they are so screwed up. She is insufferable, and gloms onto her personal view of virtually everything as “the answer,” all the while deriding graduates of The Program for the very same rigidity which she has in spades.
Then, since Micah’s sister “witnesses” that The Program transformed her life, Micah sneaks off to participate in it, unbeknownst to Eve. He then becomes the more sympathetic character and more of a mensch after the program. He’s far more relatable. It’s hard for me to imagine someone buying Eve’s point-of-view unless they already have a negative experience of est, in which case, she’d buoy up their pre-existing opinion.
The other cast members are more or less “stock” characters; Evie, played by Tess Oswalt, is the young version of Eve and plays a one-girl Greek Chorus commenting and furthering the story of Eve. Ostensibly, an important part of “Complete” is the damage that can be done to children when they grow up within a linguistically rigid, jargon fraught “fringe” sub-culture. While a fascinating topic, that wasn’t an obvious through-line in the production. Maybe another play at another time? Jack, played by Scott Victor Nelson, is the all-purpose, somewhat compassionate, somewhat smarmy “program leader.” Nelson hit some good notes but was fulfilling a more or less cartoonish role.
It’s tempting as a reviewer to rue the play that “could have been,” especially when there’s so much talent, passion and energy in the production. I am afraid that the focus on the misuse of the word “create” missed a few larger issues. Let me back up for a second.
In real life, there were definitely jerks who did the training who went out proclaiming, “I can create parking spaces!” to which I remember Werner Erhard saying, “Really? Let’s see you create one right here. Go ahead. No parking space? Try creating ‘no gravity’ then. Doesn’t work, does it?” Another set of socially inept people used their two weekend est experience to enhance the already obnoxious character they entered the training with. I also remember people getting upset — and well they should have — when these same yahoos would say, “The Jews created the Holocaust.” I was deeply offended by that myself.
And I’m an old “est-hole,” meaning that I was one of those enthusiastic “You gotta do this! It transformed my life!” people.
The deeper, and I think more profound, question lies with the difference between blame and responsibility. What so many people came away from the est experience with: the choice between blaming very real circumstances or people for the way one’s life has turned out vs. accepting responsibility for determining the course of one’s life from that moment forward.
What is it that causes one person to be in a concentration camp and come out as one of the most important philosphers of our time — like Viktor Frankl, author of Man’s Search for Meaning? — while another comes out (understandably so) with a life completely enmeshed in bitterness and hatred? What is that altruistic element that has Eve’s mother, a survivor of a homicidal, violent husband, decide to do whatever she can to have her daughter NOT have to experience what she did, as opposed to giving up and living a life of self-medicating with food, booze or drugs? Dare I say it? Frankl and Eve’s mother had an existential “choice” to be responsible for how they would go forward, even with unspeakable horror in their pasts.
I have witnessed innumerable people within est coming to similar epiphanies and living fulfilling, powerful lives: “I can live my life at the effect of (fill in the blank), or this particular (name tragic event here)” or “I can live a life that I create that’s useful and of service.” Is it a panacea for EVERYTHING in the world? No. But it does require a certain facility with paradox, and that facility with paradox is what I see as a huge missing piece in “Complete,” which makes me hope that it’s a work in progress and not literally complete.
Watching Complete, a new play written by Andrea Kuchlewska, directed by Jennifer Chambers and having its West Coast premiere at the Matrix Theatre in Los Angeles, left me — ironically enough — with the experience of being “ambivalent and incomplete” which may be a more apt title for this play. Billed as a “fast-paced comedy,” the play explores linguistics, blind faith and a controversial enlightenment program developed early in the 1970s called “est”. While the playwright doesn’t name “est” specifically in the play itself, the program and supporting materials makes no bones that she’s really talking about it.
Let me lay a few biases on the table up front: I appreciate rigor in language, as I have earned my Juris Doctorate and passed the California Bar Exam. I’m also a theater person, having run my own theater company for several years. And I’m a humorist, committed to getting more women’s stories onto stage and screen. Both Gloria Steinem and Werner Erhard, the creator of “est” have been major influences in my life. (I was an “early adopter” to both radical feminism and est.) Steinem and Erhard both became punching bags in the mainstream media, I believe for reasons beyond the scope of this review. In my own memoir solo play, Now That She’s Gone, I say, “I must face my cowardice daily to stand up for both of them. But if I can’t stand up for two leaders I love just in case people won’t like me, how would I have been in Anne Frank’s time when the consequences were life and death, not just bad opinions?”
Complete is written beautifully, with lots of fascinating threads weaving in and out, as well as masterfully directed with a deft hand, but the pattern that emerges from the tapestry is wonky, confusing and not comedic. In fact there’s little sense of humor in it all, taking itself WAY too seriously.
The protagonist, Eve, played by Meredith Bishop, comes off as someone who has severe issues that are possibly related to either undiagnosed Asperger’s Syndrome, PTSD from childhood sexual abuse and/or merely someone with a truly wretched personality. Who knows? Whatever the cause, she’s not funny. No one in the audience was laughing at or with this hot mess of a human being.
I really wanted to care about Eve but just couldn’t, even though I admired Bishop for her portrayal of a deeply flawed character. I ended up rooting for Micah, played by Scott Kruse. Micah is Eve’s colleague and companion in their shared graduate program in linguistics. Kruse’s Micah is believable as a geeky guy, overwhelmed by stage fright, who wants to grow and happens to be smitten by Eve. If I were friends with Micah in real life, I’d be tempted to take him aside and say, “Run! This woman is NUTS! She needs serious therapy.” In classic storytelling parlance, Eve’s character has virtually no arc, where Micah’s character does. Eve only goes from bad to worse.
There’s a Zen saying: “You become that which you resist.” Eve rants about her terrible experience with The Program, which she took as a child, then again when she was 16, and finally as an undergraduate while researching a paper for her degree in linguistics. She comes away from the 3rd experience with a severe case of “backlash.” She’s disgusted with the jargon of the program and its damaging misuse of the word “create,” which she at core blames for her life being screwed up — all the while using most of the language and syntax of the program. I felt badly for her, but at the same time put off. She admits she thinks people need to do the program because they are so screwed up. She is insufferable, and gloms onto her personal view of virtually everything as “the answer,” all the while deriding graduates of The Program for the very same rigidity which she has in spades.
Then, since Micah’s sister “witnesses” that The Program transformed her life, Micah sneaks off to participate in it, unbeknownst to Eve. He then becomes the more sympathetic character and more of a mensch after the program. He’s far more relatable. It’s hard for me to imagine someone buying Eve’s point-of-view unless they already have a negative experience of est, in which case, she’d buoy up their pre-existing opinion.
The other cast members are more or less “stock” characters; Evie, played by Tess Oswalt, is the young version of Eve and plays a one-girl Greek Chorus commenting and furthering the story of Eve. Ostensibly, an important part of “Complete” is the damage that can be done to children when they grow up within a linguistically rigid, jargon fraught “fringe” sub-culture. While a fascinating topic, that wasn’t an obvious through-line in the production. Maybe another play at another time? Jack, played by Scott Victor Nelson, is the all-purpose, somewhat compassionate, somewhat smarmy “program leader.” Nelson hit some good notes but was fulfilling a more or less cartoonish role.
It’s tempting as a reviewer to rue the play that “could have been,” especially when there’s so much talent, passion and energy in the production. I am afraid that the focus on the misuse of the word “create” missed a few larger issues. Let me back up for a second.
In real life, there were definitely jerks who did the training who went out proclaiming, “I can create parking spaces!” to which I remember Werner Erhard saying, “Really? Let’s see you create one right here. Go ahead. No parking space? Try creating ‘no gravity’ then. Doesn’t work, does it?” Another set of socially inept people used their two weekend est experience to enhance the already obnoxious character they entered the training with. I also remember people getting upset — and well they should have — when these same yahoos would say, “The Jews created the Holocaust.” I was deeply offended by that myself.
And I’m an old “est-hole,” meaning that I was one of those enthusiastic “You gotta do this! It transformed my life!” people.
The deeper, and I think more profound, question lies with the difference between blame and responsibility. What so many people came away from the est experience with: the choice between blaming very real circumstances or people for the way one’s life has turned out vs. accepting responsibility for determining the course of one’s life from that moment forward.
What is it that causes one person to be in a concentration camp and come out as one of the most important philosphers of our time — like Viktor Frankl, author of Man’s Search for Meaning? — while another comes out (understandably so) with a life completely enmeshed in bitterness and hatred? What is that altruistic element that has Eve’s mother, a survivor of a homicidal, violent husband, decide to do whatever she can to have her daughter NOT have to experience what she did, as opposed to giving up and living a life of self-medicating with food, booze or drugs? Dare I say it? Frankl and Eve’s mother had an existential “choice” to be responsible for how they would go forward, even with unspeakable horror in their pasts.
I have witnessed innumerable people within est coming to similar epiphanies and living fulfilling, powerful lives: “I can live my life at the effect of (fill in the blank), or this particular (name tragic event here)” or “I can live a life that I create that’s useful and of service.” Is it a panacea for EVERYTHING in the world? No. But it does require a certain facility with paradox, and that facility with paradox is what I see as a huge missing piece in “Complete,” which makes me hope that it’s a work in progress and not literally complete.
Caligari
Mar 16, 2013, 1:25:16 PM3/16/13
to
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/complete-theater-review-426118
==========
Hollywood Reporter
Complete: Theater Review
by Myron Meisel
Grad-student linguists in love are at the center of Andrea
Kuchlewska's unromantic comedy.
Grad-student linguists in love -- but can they express it amid all
their analytic articulation? Not so easily when the twisted rhetoric
of an est-like movement intrudes on the plain meanings of vocabulary
and the obscure significance of personal identity and responsibility.
In Complete, playing through March 30 at the Matrix Theatre in Los
Angeles, pathologically shy Micah (Scott Kruse) undertakes a weekend
of isolated “training” to motivate himself to tell his fellow scholar,
the dynamically driven Eve (Meredith Bishop), that he loves her just
before they are about to deliver their joint research paper to a
national academic convention, something he has never had the
wherewithal to do. Eve, however, had a checkered past experience with
the same self-actualization cult from age 9 and has dedicated herself
to linguistics in part to rescue the value of words and syntax from
the abuse of the movement guru Jack (Scott Victor Nelson), who so
helped her traumatized mother yet blighted her own growth.
Playwright Andrea Kuchlewska lived a similar childhood to Eve’s, and
her uncanny ear for the arguments advanced by the preachers of self-
help pointedly conveys the hectoring bullying that is inextricable
from the motivational benefits of challenging people’s inhibitions to
take charge of their lives. She exhibits both lacerating wit and tough
insight in her criticism of both the charismatic manipulation and the
desperate need of the believers to make egocentrism the central
arbiter of their reality. We are not exclusively the authors of our
past, nor our present, nor our future, and not every emotional state
is a product of our choices for which we are solely responsible. We
can choose, or be forced, to deny it, but the earth nevertheless still
revolves around the sun.
In this context, technical banter about linguistics between Micah and
Eve feels refreshingly precise and probing, and the contrast with the
exposing twisting of the plain meaning of words (especially the verbs)
can be surprisingly funny and bracingly bright. They make a likable
couple even if they are constitutionally incapable of moving their
obviously intimate connection into any interchange that is remotely
personal.
Bishop has to navigate an obstacle course of hairpin turns as she
plays not only Eve but also her mother and herself as a teenager. But
what is most impressive is how she stays so rigorously in touch with
Eve’s fierce intellectual integrity, a quality still not often enough
dramatized in female characters, and yet she also has the ability to
show how this most appealing drive for truth and understanding also
keeps any contrary assertion by anyone else at bay. Eve is smart yet
unstintingly demanding, and while she overcompensates for her stunted
development, she is in part effective because of, as well as in spite
of, those lessons drilled into her in the “room.”
Jennifer Chambers directs with great intensity while maintaining
unflagging forward momentum despite a complicated flashback structure,
and all the actors, including Tess Oswalt as the precocious 9-year old
Evie, register powerful impressions with considerable precision and
verve. As ever, the subtle master hand of sound designer John Zalewski
again demonstrates that his presence on a production is a reliable
indicator of a worthwhile play.
Venue: Matrix Theatre (through March 30)
Cast: Meredith Bishop, Scott Victor Nelson, Scott Kruse, Tess Oswalt
Director: Jennifer Chambers
Playwright: Andrea Kuchlewska
Set designer: Joel Daavid
Lighting designer: Michael Gend
Sound designer: John Zalewsk
Costume designer: Sharell Martin
Producers: Racquel Lehman, Theatre Planners, presented by Wilder
Theatrics
==========
==========
Hollywood Reporter
Complete: Theater Review
by Myron Meisel
Grad-student linguists in love are at the center of Andrea
Kuchlewska's unromantic comedy.
Grad-student linguists in love -- but can they express it amid all
their analytic articulation? Not so easily when the twisted rhetoric
of an est-like movement intrudes on the plain meanings of vocabulary
and the obscure significance of personal identity and responsibility.
In Complete, playing through March 30 at the Matrix Theatre in Los
Angeles, pathologically shy Micah (Scott Kruse) undertakes a weekend
of isolated “training” to motivate himself to tell his fellow scholar,
the dynamically driven Eve (Meredith Bishop), that he loves her just
before they are about to deliver their joint research paper to a
national academic convention, something he has never had the
wherewithal to do. Eve, however, had a checkered past experience with
the same self-actualization cult from age 9 and has dedicated herself
to linguistics in part to rescue the value of words and syntax from
the abuse of the movement guru Jack (Scott Victor Nelson), who so
helped her traumatized mother yet blighted her own growth.
Playwright Andrea Kuchlewska lived a similar childhood to Eve’s, and
her uncanny ear for the arguments advanced by the preachers of self-
help pointedly conveys the hectoring bullying that is inextricable
from the motivational benefits of challenging people’s inhibitions to
take charge of their lives. She exhibits both lacerating wit and tough
insight in her criticism of both the charismatic manipulation and the
desperate need of the believers to make egocentrism the central
arbiter of their reality. We are not exclusively the authors of our
past, nor our present, nor our future, and not every emotional state
is a product of our choices for which we are solely responsible. We
can choose, or be forced, to deny it, but the earth nevertheless still
revolves around the sun.
In this context, technical banter about linguistics between Micah and
Eve feels refreshingly precise and probing, and the contrast with the
exposing twisting of the plain meaning of words (especially the verbs)
can be surprisingly funny and bracingly bright. They make a likable
couple even if they are constitutionally incapable of moving their
obviously intimate connection into any interchange that is remotely
personal.
Bishop has to navigate an obstacle course of hairpin turns as she
plays not only Eve but also her mother and herself as a teenager. But
what is most impressive is how she stays so rigorously in touch with
Eve’s fierce intellectual integrity, a quality still not often enough
dramatized in female characters, and yet she also has the ability to
show how this most appealing drive for truth and understanding also
keeps any contrary assertion by anyone else at bay. Eve is smart yet
unstintingly demanding, and while she overcompensates for her stunted
development, she is in part effective because of, as well as in spite
of, those lessons drilled into her in the “room.”
Jennifer Chambers directs with great intensity while maintaining
unflagging forward momentum despite a complicated flashback structure,
and all the actors, including Tess Oswalt as the precocious 9-year old
Evie, register powerful impressions with considerable precision and
verve. As ever, the subtle master hand of sound designer John Zalewski
again demonstrates that his presence on a production is a reliable
indicator of a worthwhile play.
Venue: Matrix Theatre (through March 30)
Cast: Meredith Bishop, Scott Victor Nelson, Scott Kruse, Tess Oswalt
Director: Jennifer Chambers
Playwright: Andrea Kuchlewska
Set designer: Joel Daavid
Lighting designer: Michael Gend
Sound designer: John Zalewsk
Costume designer: Sharell Martin
Producers: Racquel Lehman, Theatre Planners, presented by Wilder
Theatrics
==========
tubby
Mar 16, 2013, 8:21:30 PM3/16/13
to
What a challenge for Andrea to bring this story to live theater.
Wonderful!!!!!!!
cheers Bruno
thetroubl...@gmail.com
Mar 16, 2013, 8:39:50 PM3/16/13
to
> Anyone able to find the Andrea' s plays script on the internet?????
>
>
>
> What a challenge for Andrea to bring this story to live theater.
>
>
>
> Wonderful!!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> cheers Bruno
Kuchlewska brought it into the world. Whatever it is or isn't there is still a great accomplishment in the world of art here. All the praise to her.
Caligari
Mar 17, 2013, 2:16:36 AM3/17/13
to
Andrea's statement on her motivation to write the play,
http://andreakuchlewska.com/why-i-wrote-complete
===========
Why I wrote “Complete”
Tags: est, language, linguistics
Complete: “A fast-paced comedy in which two obsessive linguists, a
nine-year-old zealot, and a magnetic seminar leader meet head-on in a
time-splitting wrangle over the power and perversion of language.”
Complete was born from an impulse to examine the philosophy, rituals,
and language patterns of a fictional American “large group awareness
training.”
The Training in the play maintains that all individuals create every
experience they have. While popular discourse of the late 20th and
early 21st century – reflected in best-sellers such as The Secret and
widely viewed television programs such as Dr. Phil and The Oprah
Winfrey Show – demonstrates that it can be useful to consider to what
extent our intentions “create” outcomes, the philosophy of the
Training, as well as its use of language, invite inquiry.
I wanted to bring the perspective of language science to this inquiry,
as well, and have syntactic and semantic analyses of the Training’s
unique expressions performed on stage. I wanted to see these two
worlds — linguistics and the Training — on stage together.
And all throughout, I wanted to look at the “grayness” of human
experience. A character who feels herself to be repulsed by the
Training is simultaneously attached to and obsessed with it. I wanted
to create a play that lives in the world of “both… and…” as distinct
from “either… or…”
And of course I wanted farcical elements, fainting, and public
outbursts. I wanted instantaneous scene changes, humiliation, and
wrestling. Characters whose needs and fixations precipitate comically
shameful behavior. And a nine-year-old hounding the whole theater with
her steadfast certainty that we can each create ourselves being any
way we want to be.
===========
-- Caligari
Serena Nordstrup
Mar 17, 2013, 5:07:02 AM3/17/13
to
"always get excited when [you] read [my] postings.
But perhaps the excitement does not extend to the headers...
identified one. Up to you to provide a basis for your inference --
otherwise it remains baseless.
> I know you are a Muse however you are not God.!!!!!!
> > > > > Is it any different in the heavens??????
>
> > > > I gather (not from first-hand ~experience~) that most of the heavens
> > > > lack conventional humanity. But since you made up the heavens bit,
> > > > tell the ~story~ your way...
>
> > > > > > > I try live in the moment.
> > > > > > > The here and Now!!!
>
> > > > > > Consider how much you may miss out on by restricting yourself to the
> > > > > > merely Now !
>
> > > > > Hang on Muse you are now quoting your boyfriend Werner!!!!!!!!
>
> > > > Chapter? Verse?
>
> > > What you have said namely
>
> > > " Every now has intense links with the future as well as with the
> > > past."
>
> > And where (chapter and verse) dis Jack Rosenberg quote me in my own
> > words?
>
> > > Funny that how you plagiarize from your boyfriend Werner when it suits
> > > you
> > > and not acknowledge it.
>
> > Ever heard of the ~possibility~ of irony, Bruno?
>
> That" s not irony Muse
> You just want your cake and eat it also.
> BS!!!!!!!
the ~possibility~ of irony, Bruno?
> > > Your boyfriend Werner I assume is the forgiving kind , however I just
> > > could not help
> > > myself in bringing it to your attention.
>
> > Except you haven't brought anything to my attention beyond an unproven
> > assertion...
>
> Not unproven at all Muse.
> If you know anything about Forum Est its all about the past, present
> and future.
My ignorance of "Forum Est" grows in proportion to your failure to
> > > could not help
> > > myself in bringing it to your attention.
>
> > Except you haven't brought anything to my attention beyond an unproven
> > assertion...
>
> Not unproven at all Muse.
> If you know anything about Forum Est its all about the past, present
> and future.
answer questions on the topic of rosenbergism. Which did not invent
the combination of past/present/future.
> Don't feign ignorance Muse as Ben correctly observed and evaluated you
> are C. once again.>!!!!!!!!
> > > > > I thought you disliked him intensely!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> > > > You made that up, then built a ramshackle conclusion or two. Remember
> > > > that you once studied logick ...
>
> Academic logic is pure bullshit created for the heaven's and Muses
> such as yourself.
rank any less or more purely?
> > > > > You are not supposed to have your cake and eat it!!!!!!!
>
> > > > You made that up.
>
> Yes I did just like you make things up.
ideas". He has done little in the way of such justification. This has
the side-effect of devaluing said ideas. Sorry.
> > > Chapter , Verse!!!!
>
> > Just suppose some nameless person were to tell me to piss up a rope.
> > What role might evidence play in that ~invitation~?
>
> It wasn't a nameless person in your instance so keep to the facts as
> they happened.
someone to piss up a rope. What role might evidence play in that
~invitation~?
> > > > > > > > > No need to Muse, you just like making up excuses and rationalizing
> > > > > > > > > your behavior and insightful, meaningful dissertations.
>
> > > > > > > > Rosenbergism promotes ~distinctions~, Bruno.
>
> > > > > > > Bully for your boyfriend.
>
> > > > > > Not that rosenbergism discovered or invented or pioneeered the idea
> > > > > > of ~distinguishing~...
>
> > > > > AAHHAaa
>
> > > > > Did he plagiarize it from someone???????
>
> > > > Inevitably.
>
> > > > > Wonder who it was??
>
> > > > Why not find out? -- The classical Romans had a verb "distinguere" --
> > > > to distinguish.
>
> > > Fine however how many people have had the opportunity for a Classical
> > > education??????
>
> > Many. But so what? Anyone who can read English can look up the
> > etymology of the word ~distinguish~ and ferret out the Latin word
> > "distinguere".
>
> So they can, but reality tells us many just don't care.
Rosenberg plagiarized the idea of ~distinguishing~] ?"
> > (Though some rosenbergists might ~choose~ to use dictionaries for
> > other ~possibilities~...)
>
> > > > > Bet you Ellen knows it was her mentor El Ron maybe ????
>
> > > > For homework: find out whether a former incarnation of ElRon hung
> > > > round the Roman Republic.
>
> > > Not interested Muse but Ellen may be????? or Patrick.
>
> > You failed to hand in your homework. Perhaps you have little interest
> > in the history of ~distinguishing~...
>
> > > > > > > > But you know better than to use such logical tools, no doubt...
>
> > > > > > > > > > > What is it about Ben that you so intensely dislike apart from him
> > > > > > > > > > > saying he enjoyed EST.!!!!!!!
>
> > > > > > > > > > You think that because Ben (and your idolization thereof) causes so
> > > > > > > > > > much merriment that I "intensely dislike" him? -- You ~made that
> > > > > > > > > > up~ ! ...
>
> > > > > > > > > No I didn't.
>
> > > > > > > > Yes you did.
>
> > > > > > > > > Just look at all your covert negative postings.
> > > > > > > > > Its all there Muse for everyone to see.
>
> > > > > > > > Show me an example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of my
> > > > > > > > good friend and colleague Ben. Put up or shut up, Bruno.
of Ben for want of evidence.
> > > > > > > Just read the tone of all your posting Muse.
>
> > > > > > Some of my postings don't even mention Ben. Others have varied tone.
> > > > > > Give a specific example which clearly expresses my alleged dislike of
> > > > > > my good friend and colleague Ben. Do it quick or no-one will believe
> > > > > > you.
>
> > > > > Nuh everyone knows you hate Ben with a passion.
>
> > > > Yiou made that up too.
>
> > > No not at all.
>
> > Either demonstrate from my postings that I hate Ben with a passion, or
> > admit you made up the ~story~ that I allegedly hate Ben with a
> > passion.
>
> You hate Ben with a passion Muse.
> Own up and all will be forgiven.
> Ben is the forgiving type.
>
> He did Est remember???
> > > Why don't you call a spade a spade and tell Ben directly how you feel
> > > about him so
> > > everyone in the group including myself may hear it directly from your
> > > seductive incantive lips.
>
> > Because my ~opinion~ of Ben has no relevance to the discussion of
> > rosenbergism.
>
> Oh yes it does.
> Stop trying to crawl out of that one Muse.
> You have been caught with your pants down so own up.
> We won't hold it against you.
>
>
>
> > > If I have erred once again I will take it back.
>
> > Provide clear documented proof or take it back. Your ~choice~.
> > > > > Is it because he lived his life with no regrets, repaired some of his
> > > > > faults and moved on?????
>
> > > > The question does not arise.
>
> > > > > That' s what I like about Ben , he is humble, is having a great time
> > > > > and living life to the fullest.
>
> > > > Evidence?
>
> > > Its in the heavens Muse, in your abode.
>
> > For lack of evidence, your view of what Ben ~is~ counts for nothing.
>
> Nothing for you Muse but then their is the rest of the group to
> consider.
any.
> You are just a Muse not God.
> > > > > I have a respect for Ben,
>
> > > > > 1. Because he is older than I am ( I was taught to respect my Elders)
> > > > > 2.Because he seems to have bigger " Coyones " than me
>
> > > > "seems"...
>
> > > > > through his
> > > > > adventurous sailing and water rafting exploits, and other exciting
> > > > > events
> > > > > he has not told us about.
>
> > > > ... but which conveniently assume. Without a shred of evidence...
>
> > > Don't know what kind of evidence you are seeking Muse.
>
> > Any shred.
>
> > > Do you have any evidence to doubt any of Ben's posts???
>
> > No evidence at all. But I heard a rumor once that one shouldn't
> > believe everything people wrote in cyberspace.
>
> BS, Muse
about untrustworthiness in cyberspace. Thus for example:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779132.html
Which claims (in part):
"When you receive an alarmist chain letter in the mail or see an
outrageous article on the cover of a supermarket tabloid, you may
easily recognize these as false. Some readers do not automatically
question similar information on the Web or in an email forwarded by a
friend. The Internet is still relatively new as a widespread method of
communication, and many people are not yet savvy about identifying
electronic hoaxes. [...] The Internet contains a wealth of valuable
information, but it is often difficult to tell the good from the bad.
With easy accessibility, low cost, and wide distribution, the Internet
is a great medium for disseminating falsehoods and inaccuracies. Keep
in mind that your 13-year-old neighbor can publish on the Web as
easily as the New York Times can!"
> Tell us your doubts otherwise shut up.
to believe everything written in cyberspace.
I know that you yourself, Bruno, instinctively believe every word that
I write in alt.fan.landmark. But consider the ~possibility~ that
others may not necessarily trust me quite as much as you do...
> > > > > 3 , From his postings he is a down to earth guy, comfortable in his
> > > > > own skin, in a wonderful relationship, with good family ties.
>
> > > > From his postings, we cannot tell the ~distinguish~ between ~story~-
> > > > one and ~story~-two.
>
> What about your stories how do they have any relevance???
telling them to a potentially unappreciative audience?
> > > > > Is there anything else that could be missing?????
>
> > > > Independent evidence of your artificial fantasies.
>
> Well you could start with " double blind trials maybe" ???????
> > > No one here has objected to anything Ben has posted apart from the
> > > fact that
> > > he enjoyed Est and sailing with Werner.
>
> > Who objected to this so-called fact. When did anyone post such an
> > objection.
>
> Look at your Postings Muse, Its all there!!!!
> > Did you make up the ~story~ of the alleged objection as a straw-man
> > argument?
Did you make up the ~story~ of the alleged objection as a straw-man
> > > > > Can I prove it.
> > > > > No Don't need to it fits in with my prejudices and beliefs .
>
> > > > Can he prove the validity of his opinion? (He hasn't bothered with
> > > > such trivia so far...)
>
> > > He is too much of a gentleman Muse.
> > > And its not trivia but a balanced evaluation of many of your
> > > postings!!!!
>
> > True, the provision of proof doies not count as trivia. Whereas the
> > omission of proof...
>
> More bullshit dear Muse??????
> > > > > > > > > > > which I totally agree with( especially after many years having given
> > > > > > > > > > > you the benefit of the doubt) ,
> > > > > > > > > > You may see my posts (all of a sudden) as circle-jerkery -- I see the
> > > > > > > > > > labeling in those terms as yet another lazy abdication from debate.
>
> > > > > > > > > What debate???????????????????
>
> > > > > > > > On the nature of rosenbergism.
>
> > > > > > > Is that what it is?????
> > > > > > > Never would have thought so.
>
> > > > > > See:
>
> > > > > >https://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.landmark/about
>
> > > > > > which says of alt.fan.landmark: "Description What is The Forum ?"
>
> > > > > Well whatever you may have presented
>
> > > > ... or may not have presented... (Did you make up what you thought I
> > > > presented? Or do you have something quotable and specific in mind?)
>
> > > > > wasn't what I experienced and
> > > > > saw.
> > > > > That' s why some of us speak up when tall tales are being spoken
> > > > > about.!!!!!!
>
> > > > Such as which?
>
> > > Too many to list my fair Muse, but its all in the postings!!!
>
> > List 15 only then.
>
> Nuh ther most probably is 115 and too many to handle.
> Don't have the
> time .
in alt.fan.landmark. You'll find that easier.
relevance to the discussion of rosenbergism in alt.fan.landmark
> I have got it right now or have I erred once again???
> Did Patrick tell you I nearly bowled over a beautiful meaty deer
> tonight.
>
> It was there directly if front of me as I was dashing home for dinner
> just a few moments after calling my wife to tell her where I was .
> Coming around a wee bend on a dirt track just before I hit the
> bitumen road I saw the wonderful healthy meaty doe.,. It looked at me
> directly and then sauntered into the Forest elegantly.
> The Greek Gods were known to take many forms and for a moment I
> pondered.
> Who was that???
>
> If I am ever hungry I will know where to hunt for food. Boy that was a
> great piece of meat if I ever saw one.
> Pity I am not the hunting type.
>
> Anyhow honesty goes a long way Muse.
which demonstrate how far honesty goes ?
> Think about that
tubby
Mar 17, 2013, 10:19:23 AM3/17/13
to
On Mar 17, 8:07 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Mar 15, 1:33 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 9, 10:59 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 9, 1:36 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Mar 1, 7:56 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 22, 12:57 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 21, 8:54 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 21, 1:19 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 9:34 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 5:20 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 9:13 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 1:40 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 6:44 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 1:29 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 7:38 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 1:53 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:43:45 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Feb 14, 8:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
My Dear Muse,
> On Mar 15, 1:33 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 9, 10:59 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 9, 1:36 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Mar 1, 7:56 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 22, 12:57 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 21, 8:54 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 21, 1:19 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 9:34 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 5:20 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 9:13 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 1:40 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 6:44 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 1:29 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 7:38 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 1:53 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:43:45 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Feb 14, 8:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
You have once again exhausted and placed me against the ropes so I am
happy to toss the towel in
as I am preparing to go to the Canton Fair to look at tractors and
motor scooters and hopefully to make
passionate love to my wife on the way.
Since no one is interested in the stupid games we play may I
recommend that you turn your attention
to Andrea Kuchlewska's COMPLETE theater play in LA to discuss its pros
and Cons.>
Now here is a topic with plenty of meat to digest if you dare.
I leave it entirely in your hands as I bow out of our Complete games
that we have been playing.
I bow to take leave for now you have the stage all to yourself.
Arrivederci for now my fair Muse.
See you at the Canton Fair .
Cheers
bentot
Mar 17, 2013, 2:01:44 PM3/17/13
to
On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 07:19:23 -0700 (PDT), tubby <bton...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Enjoy the trip to the fair, Bruno! Maybe you could drive one of these
babys home...from the safety of your street leagal car! ;-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lzaoDPRZ2Q
cheers
bentot
a still dry rope, ....perhaps?
wrote:
babys home...from the safety of your street leagal car! ;-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lzaoDPRZ2Q
cheers
bentot
tubby
Mar 18, 2013, 10:23:55 AM3/18/13
to
On Mar 18, 5:01 am, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 07:19:23 -0700 (PDT), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
That's a mean Caterpillar Machine Ben, sure like to have one
and move a bit of dirt around . Forget about the radio control , I
want to drive one
I' m old fashioned and like to feel the power of the tractor. My
brother has a small Case
Bulldozer about 40 years old and I love to play around and push a few
trees over now and then
when clearing some bush.
Just looking for a Farm tractor. Have been told not to touch the
Chinese Tractors with
a 40 ft pole however since I am on a budget and its more a play toy
for the moment
I think I will take a chance and see for myself what they have to
offer.
Hope you are well
Regards Bruno
> ...
>
> read more »
> On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 07:19:23 -0700 (PDT), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
and move a bit of dirt around . Forget about the radio control , I
want to drive one
I' m old fashioned and like to feel the power of the tractor. My
brother has a small Case
Bulldozer about 40 years old and I love to play around and push a few
trees over now and then
when clearing some bush.
Just looking for a Farm tractor. Have been told not to touch the
Chinese Tractors with
a 40 ft pole however since I am on a budget and its more a play toy
for the moment
I think I will take a chance and see for myself what they have to
offer.
Hope you are well
Regards Bruno
>
> read more »
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
bentot
Mar 19, 2013, 11:30:39 PM3/19/13
to
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 07:23:55 -0700 (PDT), tubby <bton...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Here is a little jewel of a toy tractor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRyH9GvoUdU
It has a hit-and-miss (one lunger) engine. Always enjoyed the sound
of one-lungers when they are working. When I was a kid I would hear
the neighbors cutting wood with a one lunger driven buzz saw. When I
was in Japan in the fifties, there were lots of work boats powered by
one lunger. They would be put-putting along popping little smoke
doghnuts out the exhaust. Your rarely see one lunger these days.
cheers bentot
>> read more �
wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRyH9GvoUdU
It has a hit-and-miss (one lunger) engine. Always enjoyed the sound
of one-lungers when they are working. When I was a kid I would hear
the neighbors cutting wood with a one lunger driven buzz saw. When I
was in Japan in the fifties, there were lots of work boats powered by
one lunger. They would be put-putting along popping little smoke
doghnuts out the exhaust. Your rarely see one lunger these days.
cheers bentot
Tex
Apr 2, 2013, 1:51:47 AM4/2/13
to
Pat,
Bruno is WAAAY nicer than me.
You see us as the same???
Analyze, analyze, analyze.... :)
Please tell me you didn't vote for Ted Cruz!!!!
On Friday, February 15, 2013 10:17:18 PM UTC-5, patrick wrote:
> On Friday, February 15, 2013 8:22:28 PM UTC-6, bentot wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:49:20 -0800 (PST), patrick
>
> >
>
> > <patric...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >isnt it interesting how the droids, once they come here almost immediately
>
> >
>
> > >start fighting with everybody and no matter who new comes to the group,
>
> >
>
> > >its always the same, like real droids :)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Check your perspective, Patrick. You have a blind spot.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I recall entering this group many months ago, only to immediately draw
>
> >
>
> > condescending and hostile attacks from some lady called Ellen! She
>
> >
>
> > threw down the initial gauntlet. Two other joined her. The rest is
>
> >
>
> > history. I will apologize when she does. Fat chance of that
>
> >
>
> > happening.
>
>
>
> what i am saying that even though u may have been attacked in some way but
>
> all the grads are showing the exact same behavior. i dont have a blind
Bruno is WAAAY nicer than me.
You see us as the same???
Analyze, analyze, analyze.... :)
Please tell me you didn't vote for Ted Cruz!!!!
On Friday, February 15, 2013 10:17:18 PM UTC-5, patrick wrote:
> On Friday, February 15, 2013 8:22:28 PM UTC-6, bentot wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 15:49:20 -0800 (PST), patrick
>
> >
>
> > <patric...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >On Friday, February 15, 2013 6:29:33 AM UTC-6, tubby wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >> On Feb 15, 7:38 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > On Feb 15, 1:53 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:43:45 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >On Feb 14, 8:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >On Friday, February 15, 2013 6:29:33 AM UTC-6, tubby wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >> On Feb 15, 7:38 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > On Feb 15, 1:53 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:43:45 -0800 (PST), Serena Nordstrup
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >On Feb 14, 8:06 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:11:18 -0800 (PST), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> >Ellen, still running the same tired, old insults and attacks, I see.
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> >You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> >You sound like a broken mp3. :)
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> Or a cracked 78. :)
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >Hey, lets all just ignore the message[s] by carping about the delivery-
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >style!
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > Like...., don't get blind-sided by wrong pronouns?
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > I consulted all my 78s - cracked and uncracked. None of them showed
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > any aptitude for pronouns...
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> Old technology fair Muse.
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> >You should change the voices in your head occasionally.
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> >You sound like a broken mp3. :)
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >> Or a cracked 78. :)
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >Hey, lets all just ignore the message[s] by carping about the delivery-
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > >style!
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > > Like...., don't get blind-sided by wrong pronouns?
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > I consulted all my 78s - cracked and uncracked. None of them showed
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> > any aptitude for pronouns...
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> Old technology fair Muse.
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> You have to keep up with the times and update your mode of delivery.
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> cheers.
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >isnt it interesting how the droids, once they come here almost immediately
>
> >
>
> > >start fighting with everybody and no matter who new comes to the group,
>
> >
>
> > >its always the same, like real droids :)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Check your perspective, Patrick. You have a blind spot.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I recall entering this group many months ago, only to immediately draw
>
> >
>
> > condescending and hostile attacks from some lady called Ellen! She
>
> >
>
> > threw down the initial gauntlet. Two other joined her. The rest is
>
> >
>
> > history. I will apologize when she does. Fat chance of that
>
> >
>
> > happening.
>
>
>
> what i am saying that even though u may have been attacked in some way but
>
> all the grads are showing the exact same behavior. i dont have a blind
>
> spot. maybe i do and dont see it.
>
>
>
>
>
> spot. maybe i do and dont see it.
>
>
>
>
>
> its that you and tubby and tex and tom have the same behavior here.
>
>
> in some instances it would be possible to remove your names from your posts
>
> and it would interesting to see if some could tell who was posting.
>
>
>
>
> and it would interesting to see if some could tell who was posting.
>
>
>
> one thing landmark has stated in the past is that they will rock u to your
>
> foundatations, in some instances remove your way of thinking and install
>
> new thinking.
>
>
>
>
> foundatations, in some instances remove your way of thinking and install
>
> new thinking.
>
>
>
Serena Nordstrup
Apr 5, 2013, 7:13:07 AM4/5/13
to
On Mar 18, 3:19 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 17, 8:07 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
<snip>
> On Mar 17, 8:07 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> My Dear Muse,
>
> You have once again exhausted and placed me against the ropes so I am
> happy to toss the towel in
> as I am preparing to go to the Canton Fair to look at tractors and
> motor scooters and hopefully to make
> passionate love to my wife on the way.
>
> Since no one is interested in the stupid games we play may I
> recommend that you turn your attention
> to Andrea Kuchlewska's COMPLETE theater play in LA to discuss its pros
> and Cons.>
>
> Now here is a topic with plenty of meat to digest if you dare.
> I leave it entirely in your hands as I bow out of our Complete games
> that we have been playing.
>
> I bow to take leave for now you have the stage all to yourself.
>
> Arrivederci for now my fair Muse.
>
> See you at the Canton Fair .
tubby
Apr 6, 2013, 4:14:54 AM4/6/13
to
On Apr 5, 10:13 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Mar 18, 3:19 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 17, 8:07 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > My Dear Muse,
>
> > You have once again exhausted and placed me against the ropes so I am
> > happy to toss the towel in
> > as I am preparing to go to the Canton Fair to look at tractors and
> > motor scooters and hopefully to make
> > passionate love to my wife on the way.
>
> > Since no one is interested in the stupid games we play may I
> > recommend that you turn your attention
> > to Andrea Kuchlewska's COMPLETE theater play in LA to discuss its pros
> > and Cons.>
>
> > Now here is a topic with plenty of meat to digest if you dare.
>
> I've not seen the play yet. Have you?
No I haven't but I did see Ruby Wax.
> On Mar 18, 3:19 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 17, 8:07 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > My Dear Muse,
>
> > You have once again exhausted and placed me against the ropes so I am
> > happy to toss the towel in
> > as I am preparing to go to the Canton Fair to look at tractors and
> > motor scooters and hopefully to make
> > passionate love to my wife on the way.
>
> > Since no one is interested in the stupid games we play may I
> > recommend that you turn your attention
> > to Andrea Kuchlewska's COMPLETE theater play in LA to discuss its pros
> > and Cons.>
>
> > Now here is a topic with plenty of meat to digest if you dare.
>
> I've not seen the play yet. Have you?
>
> > I leave it entirely in your hands as I bow out of our Complete games
> > that we have been playing.
>
> > I bow to take leave for now you have the stage all to yourself.
>
> > Arrivederci for now my fair Muse.
>
> > See you at the Canton Fair .
>
> Didn't see you in Canton, Bruno...
Leaving this Thursday for Singapore and then Guanzhou where the Fair
is.
Have yu changed yur mind my fair Muse.
Will you bring Werner with you????????
Cheers
Serena Nordstrup
Apr 7, 2013, 6:59:17 AM4/7/13
to
On Apr 6, 8:14 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 5, 10:13 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > On Mar 18, 3:19 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Mar 17, 8:07 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > My Dear Muse,
>
> > > You have once again exhausted and placed me against the ropes so I am
> > > happy to toss the towel in
> > > as I am preparing to go to the Canton Fair to look at tractors and
> > > motor scooters and hopefully to make
> > > passionate love to my wife on the way.
>
> > > Since no one is interested in the stupid games we play may I
> > > recommend that you turn your attention
> > > to Andrea Kuchlewska's COMPLETE theater play in LA to discuss its pros
> > > and Cons.>
>
> > > Now here is a topic with plenty of meat to digest if you dare.
>
> > I've not seen the play yet. Have you?
>
> No I haven't but I did see Ruby Wax.
You qualify accordingly as a fully-fledged commentator on the
> On Apr 5, 10:13 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > On Mar 18, 3:19 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Mar 17, 8:07 pm, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > My Dear Muse,
>
> > > You have once again exhausted and placed me against the ropes so I am
> > > happy to toss the towel in
> > > as I am preparing to go to the Canton Fair to look at tractors and
> > > motor scooters and hopefully to make
> > > passionate love to my wife on the way.
>
> > > Since no one is interested in the stupid games we play may I
> > > recommend that you turn your attention
> > > to Andrea Kuchlewska's COMPLETE theater play in LA to discuss its pros
> > > and Cons.>
>
> > > Now here is a topic with plenty of meat to digest if you dare.
>
> > I've not seen the play yet. Have you?
>
> No I haven't but I did see Ruby Wax.
performance of Andrea Kuchlewska's play "Complete", Bruno.
> > > I leave it entirely in your hands as I bow out of our Complete games
> > > that we have been playing.
>
> > > I bow to take leave for now you have the stage all to yourself.
>
> > > Arrivederci for now my fair Muse.
>
> > > See you at the Canton Fair .
>
> > Didn't see you in Canton, Bruno...
>
> Haven't gone yet Serena.
> Leaving this Thursday for Singapore and then Guanzhou where the Fair
> is.
> Have yu changed yur mind
for dinner.
> my fair Muse.
> Will you bring Werner with you????????
name?
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