Werner Erhard In Good Company

[Ellen]

.....Or correctly placed in the pantheon of whacky California cults.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/movies/paul-thomas-anderson-film-may-be-about-scientology.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all



"...As “The Master” took shape, Mr. Anderson, its writer and director,
delved into the personalities behind cults and religious and pop
psychology movements with roots in California. Those have included
Aimee Semple McPherson, who used radio to evangelize in the 1920s;
Werner Erhard, whose est movement swept California in the 1970s; and
Jim Jones of San Francisco, whose followers drank the cyanide-laced
Flavor Aid (not Kool-Aid) in 1978."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[altfan landmark]

On Apr 19, 12:38 pm, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .....Or correctly placed in the pantheon of whacky California cults.
>

> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/movies/paul-thomas-anderson-film-ma...

>
> "...As “The Master” took shape, Mr. Anderson, its writer and director,
> delved into the personalities behind cults and religious and pop
> psychology movements with roots in California. Those have included
> Aimee Semple McPherson, who used radio to evangelize in the 1920s;
> Werner Erhard, whose est movement swept California in the 1970s; and
> Jim Jones of San Francisco, whose followers drank the cyanide-laced
> Flavor Aid (not Kool-Aid) in 1978."
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------

Patrick, Ellen, Rick Ross, Serena .......in good company or correctly
placed in the pantheon of resentful, unhappy, bizarre internet
trolls.

[Caligari]

On Apr 19, 9:38 am, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .....Or correctly placed in the pantheon of whacky California cults.
>

> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/movies/paul-thomas-anderson-film-ma...

>
> "...As “The Master” took shape, Mr. Anderson, its writer and director,
> delved into the personalities behind cults and religious and pop
> psychology movements with roots in California. Those have included
> Aimee Semple McPherson, who used radio to evangelize in the 1920s;
> Werner Erhard, whose est movement swept California in the 1970s; and
> Jim Jones of San Francisco, whose followers drank the cyanide-laced
> Flavor Aid (not Kool-Aid) in 1978."
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------

Should be another interesting Paul Thomas Anderson film. Look forward
to seeing it.

-- Caligari

[Tex]

LOL!!!!
Setting aside Ellen's usually logical fallacies, in this case the association fallacy again, it sounds like an interesting movie and it was a very well written review.

SO.........
Thanks Ellen.
This move sounds like a "must see" for me.

[tubby]

Correct Caligari and we may all learn something from it.

More than the wild ravings of the passionate
Cult affacinado Ellen or our resident androgynous Muse"s insipid
queries .
Patty's relationship with the nasty Jinn would also be included here.
Cheers

[Serena Nordstrup]

On Apr 20, 5:18 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 20, 2:53 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 19, 9:38 am, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > .....Or correctly placed in the pantheon of whacky California cults.
>
> > >http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/movies/paul-thomas-anderson-film-ma...
>
> > > "...As “The Master” took shape, Mr. Anderson, its writer and director,
> > > delved into the personalities behind cults and religious and pop
> > > psychology movements with roots in California. Those have included
> > > Aimee Semple McPherson, who used radio to evangelize in the 1920s;
> > > Werner Erhard, whose est movement swept California in the 1970s; and
> > > Jim Jones of San Francisco, whose followers drank the cyanide-laced
> > > Flavor Aid (not Kool-Aid) in 1978."
>
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
>
> > Should be another interesting Paul Thomas Anderson film.  Look forward
> > to seeing it.
>
> >   -- Caligari
>
> Correct Caligari  and we may all learn something from it.

What might you expect to learn from a mere fictional ~story~, Bruno?

[Ellen]

Geeeesh...


What you don't understand or don't see or refuse to accept is that by
defending Werner Erhard's est you are in the same pathetic position as
someone defending Aimee Semple McPherson for providing people with a
spiritual connection or Jim Jones for ~creating~ a close community.
Whatever "beneficial" part of the "program" that may have existed is
swamped by the idiocy. Yet you desperately cling to some shred of
whatever you thought was "beneficial" that you could have found easily
somewhere else and not contaminated with the taint of Werner's putrid
mind. (You almost sound like some battered spouse who stays with the
perp for years and years because she ~loooves~ him.) How much
evidence does there have to be for you to admit the whole thing was a
sick psycho-scam?


Ellen

[Ellen]

Yes.

One wonders how Anderson will manage to portray Hubbard in any way
sympathetic to an audience when, in reality, he was a caricature, a
buffoon, an over-inflated and silly carnival barker with an evil idea
that he was entitled to use and take advantage of people. He's more
of a cartoon character than a person with any intellectual depth or
intrigue. The only thing that humanizes the story is from the
victims' perspective, and I imagine that's what he will take. It's
too great a tale to be left to the scrap-heap of American cults -- a
real home-made monster from the heartland, with the back-drop of early
pulp fiction, rocket-science, and a perverse American yearning for
some kind of edge over a flat landscape, dismal existence, and
predictably grim relationships. One has heard the old saw about war
being "the ordinary man's escape from the ordinary." I think Hubbard
tapped into this vein of longing in a most singularly American way and
I hope Anderson makes the most of it in some way that captures the
dark underbelly of the happy-face USA of the fifties.


Ellen

[Troll afansite]

Oh? You met and knew L. Ron Hubbard ? Or are you just very comfortable
talking shit about others that you really know nothing about?

[Troll afansite]

Do you know a good therapist? You sound neurotic as F*ck. I can't
imagine anyone talking more fanatical or bent on having others
conform to their warped personal beliefs than your on-line persona
Ellen.

[tubby]

All about your androgynous past.
Now fess up
Who are you really?

Pau or Serena???

cheers

[Tex]

Absurd logical fallacy of association.
Ellen, are you really this dumb?
Perhaps you are really a closet Republican operative. ;)

> Whatever "beneficial" part of the "program" that may have existed is
> swamped by the idiocy. Yet you desperately cling to some shred of
> whatever you thought was "beneficial" that you could have found easily
> somewhere else and not contaminated with the taint of Werner's putrid
> mind. (You almost sound like some battered spouse who stays with the
> perp for years and years because she ~loooves~ him.) How much
> evidence does there have to be for you to admit the whole thing was a
> sick psycho-scam?

Forgot you meds again today, I see. ;)
>
>
> Ellen

[Serena Nordstrup]

I wouldn't want to say anything which might spoil your ~experience~ of
suspense and drama when you watch the film....

Do you expect Anderson to save the revelation until the grand finale ?

Slimily
Serena

[Serena Nordstrup]

And the happy median involves summary, analysis and opinion ...

[tubby]

If He/She is an androgynous being such as yourself who knows?

Now fess up
Who are you really?

Pau or Serena???

Cheers

[Serena Nordstrup]

Do fictional ~stories~ in general reveal information about my
allegedly androgynous past, Bruno?

> > > Now fess up
> > > Who are you really?
>
> > > Pau or Serena???
>
> > I wouldn't want to say anything which might spoil your ~experience~ of
> > suspense and drama when you watch the film....
>
> > Do you expect Anderson to save the revelation until the grand finale ?
>
> > Slimily
> > Serena
>
> If He/She is an androgynous being such as yourself who knows?

If ... then ...

Would you expect distinctive film-making from an allegedly androgynous
film-maker, Bruno?

>  Now fess up
>  Who are you really?
>
>  Pau or Serena???

I wouldn't want to say anything which might spoil your ~experience~ of

suspense and drama when you watch the film, Bruno ....

[tubby]

> Would you expect distinctive film-making from an allegedly a androgynous

> film-maker, Bruno?
>
> >  Now fess up
> >  Who are you really?
>
> >  Pau or Serena???
>
> I wouldn't want to say anything which might spoil your ~experience~ of
> suspense and drama when you watch the film, Bruno ....
>
> Do you expect Anderson to save the revelation until the grand
> finale ?

Don't bother about spoiling my " experience " fair Muse.

Just fess up !!!!

Who are you really?

 Pau or Serena???

Or maybe an androgynous Muse called Pau and Serena Nordstrup ?????

We could write a book or a film script about your mysterious life
maybe??????

Cheers

[Serena Nordstrup]

Would you expect distinctive film-making from an allegedly androgynous

film-maker, Bruno?

> > >  Now fess up
> > >  Who are you really?
>
> > >  Pau or Serena???
>
> > I wouldn't want to say anything which might spoil your ~experience~ of
> > suspense and drama when you watch the film, Bruno ....
>
> > Do you expect Anderson to save the revelation until the grand
> > finale ?
>
> Don't bother about spoiling my " experience " fair Muse.

But I do, Bruno, I do!

> Just  fess up !!!!
> Who are you really?
>
>   Pau or Serena???

Just watch the film with great attention, Bruno. After all, you too
might learn something...

> Or maybe  an androgynous Muse called Pau and Serena Nordstrup ?????
>
> We could write a book or a film script about your mysterious life
> maybe??????

Go right ahead. Use alt.fan.serena-nordstrup

> Cheers

[tubby]

That's the problem Pau its all projection. You could start thinking
about yourself and your androgynous path.

That may help you more than worrying about the experiences I may have.

For after all I am content in my skin just like Tex and Ben.

You on the other hand seem to have some difficulties????

>
> > Just  fess up !!!!
> > Who are you really?
>
> >   Pau or Serena???
>
> Just watch the film with great attention, Bruno. After all, you too
> might learn something...

About your androgynous path???

>
> > Or maybe  an androgynous Muse called Pau and Serena Nordstrup ?????
>
> > We could write a book or a film script about your mysterious life
> > maybe??????
>
> Go right ahead. Use alt.fan.serena-nordstrup

Great, Now tell me the raw details about who you really are!!!!
I'm glad you are willing to co operate.
Thank You.

Cheers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Cheers

[Serena Nordstrup]

All?

> You could start thinking about yourself

I could. Meantime we'll discuss Anderson's "The Master" -- in relation
to Californian cults.

> and your androgynous path.

I have one of those? How fascinatingly off-topic!

> That may help you more than worrying about the experiences I may have.

Last I heard, alt.fan.landmark had no brief to help me.

> For after all I am content in my skin just like Tex  and Ben.
>
> You on the other hand seem to have some difficulties????

Really? How does this manifest itself?

> > > Just  fess up !!!!
> > > Who are you really?
>
> > >   Pau or Serena???
>
> > Just watch the film with great attention, Bruno. After all, you too
> > might learn something...
>
> About your androgynous path???

Indeed. For when I asked (during the discussion on Anderson 's film
"The Master): "What might you expect to learn from a mere fictional
~story~, Bruno?" -- you answered: "All about your androgynous past."
Accordingly, we look forward to the release of Anderson's film.

> > > Or maybe  an androgynous Muse called Pau and Serena Nordstrup ?????
>
> > > We could write a book or a film script about your mysterious life
> > > maybe??????
>
> > Go right ahead. Use alt.fan.serena-nordstrup
>
> Great, Now tell me the raw details about who you really are!!!!

I refer you to alt.fan.serena-nordstrup

[fan fan]

And what does your post have to do with the subject-matter of
alt.fan.landmark Serena?

[Ellen]

"Tex,"

You have a phenomenal tolerance for the repetitive. Most people would
have sickened of it by now. How is this? Maybe they self-select for
this tolerance at est/Landmark. Oh wait....it's right out of the book
of brainwashing, chapter one: repeat, repeat, repeat. And keep
repeating until you've bored everyone to death and they just give up.
Or: "If you keep saying it the way it really is, eventually your word
is law in the universe," (with the emphasis on "keep") and right out
of the book of scientology.


Ellen

[tubby]

Funny you say that Ellen, but it seems to me that's the very behaviour
you adopt within this group.

Are you certain that youré not a Scientology shill? .

Cheers

[bentot]

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 19:45:28 -0700 (PDT), tubby <bton...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I notice that too! :)) The authority on opinions of ".....most
people....whatever, whatever."

cheers

[Serena Nordstrup]

The connection goes through Anderson's film as a reported result of
California cults (such as rosenbergist cults) -- despite Bruno's
clumsy diversions into personal matters.

[Serena Nordstrup]

All ?

> > > > > You could start thinking about yourself
>
> > > > I could. Meantime we'll discuss Anderson's "The Master" -- in relation
> > > > to Californian cults.
>
> > > > > and your androgynous path.
>
> > > > I have one of those? How fascinatingly off-topic!
>
> > > > > That may help you more than worrying about the experiences I may have.
>
> > > > Last I heard, alt.fan.landmark had no brief to help me.
>
> > > > > For after all I am content in my skin just like Tex  and Ben.
>
> > > > > You on the other hand seem to have some difficulties????
>
> > > > Really? How does this manifest itself?

Really? How does this manifest itself, Bruno?

Show us the statistics, Bruno. Who repeats themselves more
consistently word-for-word: Ellen or Tex or fanfanfire ?

[Caligari]

On Apr 19, 9:38 am, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .....Or correctly placed in the pantheon of whacky California cults.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/movies/paul-thomas-anderson-film-ma...
>

> "...As “TheMaster” took shape, Mr. Anderson, its writer and director,

> delved into the personalities behind cults and religious and pop
> psychology movements with roots in California. Those have included
> Aimee Semple McPherson, who used radio to evangelize in the 1920s;
> Werner Erhard, whose est movement swept California in the 1970s; and
> Jim Jones of San Francisco, whose followers drank the cyanide-laced
> Flavor Aid (not Kool-Aid) in 1978."
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------

More news and teaser clip from The Master.

Joaquin Phoenix plays "Freddie Sutton, a young drifter who becomes the
right-hand man of Lancaster Dodd, a charismatic intellectual (played
by Philip Seymour Hoffman) whose spiritual organization begins to
catch on in America in the 1950s."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies/2012/05/joaquin-phoenix-the-master-scientology-paul-thomas-anderson-cannes.html

"Filmmaker Paul Thomas Anderson has screened his new film about a
Scientology-like sect leader for Tom Cruise, Scientology’s most famous
follower, in the hopes of heading off a conflict with the group,
TheWrap has learned."

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/master-paul-thomas-anderson-reaches-out-scientologist-tom-cruise-exclusive-41111

[Caligari]

On May 22, 9:37 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 19, 9:38 am, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > .....Or correctly placed in the pantheon of whacky California cults.
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/movies/paul-thomas-anderson-film-ma...
>
> > "...As “TheMaster” took shape, Mr. Anderson, its writer and director,
> > delved into the personalities behind cults and religious and pop
> > psychology movements with roots in California. Those have included
> > Aimee Semple McPherson, who used radio to evangelize in the 1920s;
> > Werner Erhard, whose est movement swept California in the 1970s; and
> > Jim Jones of San Francisco, whose followers drank the cyanide-laced
> > Flavor Aid (not Kool-Aid) in 1978."
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
>
> More news and teaser clip from TheMaster.
>
> Joaquin Phoenix plays "Freddie Sutton, a young drifter who becomes the
> right-hand man of Lancaster Dodd, a charismatic intellectual (played
> by Philip Seymour Hoffman) whose spiritual organization begins to
> catch on in America in the 1950s."
>

> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies/2012/05/joaquin-phoenix-the-ma...

>
> "Filmmaker Paul Thomas Anderson has screened his new film about a
> Scientology-like sect leader for Tom Cruise, Scientology’s most famous
> follower, in the hopes of heading off a conflict with the group,
> TheWrap has learned."
>

> http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/master-paul-thomas-anderson...

The Village Voice article that it's confirmed The Master is about
Hubbard. The trailer is remarkable.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/07/scientology_the_master_marc_headley.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pALMMIoxTzY

===============
Case Closed: Paul Thomas Anderson's Script for The Master is Nothing
But Scientology UPDATE: The New Trailer!

Former Scientologist Marc Headley, who first revealed to the Voice in
2009 that Tom Cruise talked to ashtrays and beverage bottles as part
of his Scientology training, has a stunning article in the Daily Beast
today that settles, once and for all, what Paul Thomas Anderson's film
The Master is all about.

As Headley proves conclusively, it's about Scientology, from beginning
to end.

Headley grew up in Scientology, and in 2005 escaped from its secretive
International Base east of Los Angeles. His 2009 book, Blown For Good,
was one of the first to blow the lid off the culture of violence at
the base and the culture of intimidation and interrogation perpetuated
by church leader David Miscavige...

Who better to investigate this whole Master debate than a former
Scientologist? I received Scientology counseling from Tom Cruise
himself. I've already had private investigators follow me and dig
through my garbage--what else could they do?
The Daily Beast acquired for Headley a copy of Anderson's script for
the movie due to be released in October (we've already had a couple of
sneak peeks at the film), and Headley was able to compare its entire
screenplay against what he knows of Scientology's history.

(He admits, of course, that the film could be substantially different
from the script he was given. But one of the scenes in the script, he
says, was preserved in the second teaser trailer that we've seen.)

Headley goes down 22 major comparison points between the script and
actual Scientology history. You should go to the Daily Beast to read
that comparison, but we'll pull out just a few to show you how close
the comparison is.

Hubbard, Headley writes, "Claimed to have written the book The Dark
Sword, Excalibur before Dianetics -- after suffering crippling
injuries during World War II. Excalibur was said to contain
revolutionary and explosive information on the mind so powerful that
Hubbard chose not to publish it. The manuscript is reportedly lost and
never found."

Headley finds in the script, "Lancaster Dodd" (the Hubbard character
played by Philip Seymour Hoffman), "writes the book The Dark Shadow,
Split Saber before writing The Cause -- after suffering serious
injuries during World War II. Split Saber contains revolutionary and
explosive information on the mind and is so powerful, out of the eight
men who read it, four die and the other four disappear. Dodd never
publishes it, but a single copy is said to be hidden in a secret
location only Dodd is aware of."

(This is particularly delicious for those of us who study Hubbard's
history -- in fact, Hubbard told anyone who would listen in the late
'40s that his "Excalibur" manuscript was so potent it would either
drive readers insane or kill them. Of course, it's never surfaced, and
you would be forgiven if you suspected he never wrote a word of it.)

Headley says that Hubbard "owned and operated a former cattle trawler
named the Apollo, where the Scientology group, the Sea Org, operates
and manages Scientology operations." While the script has Dodd sail "a
former cattle trawler called the Aletheia, which he operates his
spiritual group The Cause from."

And we'll choose just one more. In real life, Headley reminds us,
"According to Hubbard, the solar system has been occupied repeatedly
-- and sometimes concurrently -- by multiple invader forces. They were
discussed in detail in a 1952 lecture, "The Role of Earth," in which
Hubbard described the conflict between the Fourth Invader Force
(already occupying the solar system) and the Fifth Invader Force."

And in the script: "While Dodd continues to interrogate the stowaway,
he asks him if he 'is a member of the Ninth Battle Battalion or any
other invader force, space stations or communication depots on this
planet or anywhere else'."

Isn't that precious?

Wow, I can't believe how badly I want to see this film!
===============

[Caligari]

> http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/07/scientology_the_ma...

Oh, and here's the comparison of the script to Hubbard by a former
Scientologist. And an amazing video of Tom Cruise in Scientology.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/19/is-the-master-based-on-scientology-and-l-ron-hubbard.html

[B. Terry]

>> Are you certain �that your� not a Scientology shill? .
>>
>> Cheers

b.t...@gmx.com

--
B. Terry

[Caligari]

> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/19/is-the-master-based-...

The poster is interesting, more than half filled with liquid

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/the-master-poster-paul-thomas-anderson_n_1684776.html

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/692608/original.jpg

[Caligari]

> > > The Village Voice article that it's confirmed TheMasteris about

> > > Hubbard.  The trailer is remarkable.
>
> > >http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/07/scientology_the_ma...
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pALMMIoxTzY
>
> > > ===============

> > > Case Closed: Paul Thomas Anderson's Script for TheMasteris Nothing

> > > But Scientology UPDATE: The New Trailer!
>
> > > Former Scientologist Marc Headley, who first revealed to the Voice in
> > > 2009 that Tom Cruise talked to ashtrays and beverage bottles as part
> > > of his Scientology training, has a stunning article in the Daily Beast
> > > today that settles, once and for all, what Paul Thomas Anderson's film

> > > TheMasteris all about.

>
> > > As Headley proves conclusively, it's about Scientology, from beginning
> > > to end.
>
> > > Headley grew up in Scientology, and in 2005 escaped from its secretive
> > > International Base east of Los Angeles. His 2009 book, Blown For Good,
> > > was one of the first to blow the lid off the culture of violence at
> > > the base and the culture of intimidation and interrogation perpetuated
> > > by church leader David Miscavige...
>

> > > Who better to investigate this wholeMasterdebate than a former

> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/the-master-poster-paul-thoma...
>
> http://i.huffpost.com/gen/692608/original.jpg

Scientology, as expected, is campaigning against the release,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/sep/11/scientology-campaign-master

>>>>
Scientologists step up campaign against The Master
Church of Scientology reportedly planning publicity drive to undermine
Paul Thomas Anderson film based on L Ron Hubbard

Scientologists have stepped up their campaign against Paul Thomas
Anderson's controversial new film The Master in the wake of the film's
critically acclaimed debuts at the Venice and Toronto film festivals,
a US newspaper is alleging. The New York Post says the Oscar-winning
producer Harvey Weinstein, who runs the film's distributor The
Weinstein Company with his brother Bob, has increased his personal
security.

The Master, which has long been billed as Paul Thomas Anderson's "new
film about Scientology" has been the talking point of the autumn
festival season so far. The film-maker himself has admitted Phillip
Seymour Hoffman's snake-like charmer, the nascent cult leader
Lancaster Dodd, is partly based on Scientology founder L Ron Hubbard,
but has also argued that his film does not deal with the organisation
at a wider level. The film, which also stars Joaquin Phoenix as a
drifter sailor who becomes one of Dodd's first followers, won the
Silver Lion award for best direction and the Volpi Cup prize for best
acting (split between Hoffman and Phoenix) at Venice on Saturday. It
would reportedly have also taken the top Golden Lion prize for best
film but for a technicality.

The Post's Page Six column also says that Scientologist leaders are
planning a publicity drive to undermine the film when it is released
in the US on Friday. It reports the words of "behind-the-scenes
sources" but does not name or quote them directly. Other members of
The Master's crew have also added extra security, the newspaper says.

During a press conference at Venice prior to The Master's screening,
Anderson said: "This is a character that I created based on L Ron
Hubbard, there's a lot of similarities to the early days of Dianetics
… I don't know a hell of a lot about Scientology today but I know
about the beginnings of that movement and it inspired me to use it as
a backdrop for these characters. I can't be any more unambiguous than
that.

"I think we were just trying to tell a love story between these two
guys. We had a lot of scenes that weren't about that and we took them
out."

The Guardian's Peter Bradshaw handed Anderson's film a five-star
review at Venice, calling it "an arresting and utterly absorbing
psychological drama of marginal lives, an emotional history of
charlatanism and gimcrack philosophy, a world of snakeoil truth
salesmen offering self-medication of the spirit, all set in a postwar
America realised with superb flair and confidence, utterly without
cliche".

Xan Brooks, writing for the Observer, also gave the film five stars
and described it as a "ravishing, unashamedly old-school American
classic".

The Master opens in UK cinemas on 9 November.
<<<<