Last night i was having a conversation with my mom where we were arguing about cleaning up our house. In the midst of it my mom was telling me really what she wanted was to be listened to, i started to tell her i -was- listening, but... i really got, in that moment, that the way people are in conversation is wanting to be expressed (know, acknowledged, understood, or what have you). I was at a special evening last night where the forum leader was talking about ~self expression~ is not getting something that's inside of you out of yourself. It's making a statement of what you're to be, and then being your word... doing things to express yourself in what you stand for. In arguing with my mom... i got it --to my innermost being-- that we as people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;). We weren't being expressed in the commitment to improve our house, in that; so i got up, told my mom to write me the info on what she needed help with at what times, etc. and told her i'd do certian things around the house (dishes, and talk my brothers and sister, etc). We talked about it a little more and the conversation ended up being cool.
What's funny tho is... that day, when i got home from work (i work a 3am-8am shift) i declared to myself that that day i'd be effective in fulfilling what i said i'd do.
Today i'm declaring that there's gonna be some excitement ;) So everyone, have fun today
perhaps your mother would be interested in attending the guest evening ;-0
Still, its good to know that the landmark teachings are keeping yet another American household clean and tidy...... three cheers for the forum.. hip hip
Alan
Jim Foster <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> Last night i was having a conversation with my mom where we were arguing > about cleaning up our house. In the midst of it my mom was telling me really > what she wanted was to be listened to, i started to tell her i -was- > listening, but... i really got, in that moment, that the way people are in > conversation is wanting to be expressed (know, acknowledged, understood, or > what have you). I was at a special evening last night where the forum leader > was talking about ~self expression~ is not getting something that's inside > of you out of yourself. It's making a statement of what you're to be, and > then being your word... doing things to express yourself in what you stand > for. In arguing with my mom... i got it --to my innermost being-- that we as > people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;). We > weren't being expressed in the commitment to improve our house, in that; so > i got up, told my mom to write me the info on what she needed help with at > what times, etc. and told her i'd do certian things around the house > (dishes, and talk my brothers and sister, etc). We talked about it a little > more and the conversation ended up being cool.
> What's funny tho is... that day, when i got home from work (i work a > 3am-8am shift) i declared to myself that that day i'd be effective in > fulfilling what i said i'd do.
> Today i'm declaring that there's gonna be some excitement ;) So everyone, > have fun today
Jim Foster wrote in message <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>... > i got it --to my innermost being-- that we as >people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;).
Jim, I don't see that arguing and being our word are mutually exclusive.
In article <7BQu3.3171$9K.3...@news.rdc1.nj.home.com>, "Larry Person"
<La...@LarryPerson.com> writes: >Jim Foster wrote in message <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>... >> i got it --to my innermost being-- that we as >>people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;).
>Jim, I don't see that arguing and being our word are mutually exclusive.
I gotta agreed with Larry on this one. It greatly depends on what is driving the arguing, what's underneath it. But that'd get you into that grey area you don't like. Easier to just think all arguing/disagreement is bad, rather than discern what any particular arguement is about, and decide out of that.
K.
********************************************************* Access to power must be confined to those who are not in love with it. -Plato
Yup. Also we're all still human, we're not transformed 100 percent of the time, we still argue and carry on and we ENJOY arguing and carrying on and sometimes we don't get off it, and sometimes it has NOTHING TO DO WITH COMMITMENTS AND OUR WORD!
KMottus wrote in message <19990819071449.05615.00001...@ngol03.aol.com>... >In article <7BQu3.3171$9K.3...@news.rdc1.nj.home.com>, "Larry Person" ><La...@LarryPerson.com> writes:
>>Jim Foster wrote in message <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>... >>> i got it --to my innermost being-- that we as >>>people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;).
>>Jim, I don't see that arguing and being our word are mutually exclusive.
>I gotta agreed with Larry on this one. It greatly depends on >what is driving the arguing, what's underneath it. But that'd >get you into that grey area you don't like. Easier to just think >all arguing/disagreement is bad, rather than discern what any >particular arguement is about, and decide out of that.
>K.
>********************************************************* >Access to power must be confined to those who are >not in love with it. >-Plato
> Last night i was having a conversation with my mom where we were arguing > about cleaning up our house. In the midst of it my mom was telling me really > what she wanted was to be listened to, i started to tell her i -was- > listening, but... i really got, in that moment, that the way people are in > conversation is wanting to be expressed (know, acknowledged, understood, or > what have you). I was at a special evening last night where the forum leader > was talking about ~self expression~ is not getting something that's inside > of you out of yourself. It's making a statement of what you're to be, and > then being your word... doing things to express yourself in what you stand > for. In arguing with my mom... i got it --to my innermost being-- that we as > people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;). We > weren't being expressed in the commitment to improve our house, in that; so > i got up, told my mom to write me the info on what she needed help with at > what times, etc. and told her i'd do certian things around the house > (dishes, and talk my brothers and sister, etc). We talked about it a little > more and the conversation ended up being cool.
> What's funny tho is... that day, when i got home from work (i work a > 3am-8am shift) i declared to myself that that day i'd be effective in > fulfilling what i said i'd do.
> Today i'm declaring that there's gonna be some excitement ;) So everyone, > have fun today
> there's no better day to do it (=
> j2
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Larry Person wrote in message ... >Yup. Also we're all still human, we're not transformed 100 percent of the >time, we still argue and carry on and we ENJOY arguing and carrying on and >sometimes we don't get off it, and sometimes it has NOTHING TO DO WITH >COMMITMENTS AND OUR WORD!
I hear that, Larry. It doesn't necissarily have to do with my word or my commitments; that was a little bland communicaton on my part.
What i got was more... argument isn't a genuine communication. While, it would depend on whatever my word is as far as "keeping" it, or fulfilling it in argument... i was going on -being true to myself, and in my word to myself-. Like argument does nothing to facilitate the function i'm pursuing in a conversation.
Arguments can be enjoyable, but i still would rather not do it. Like eating ice cream... it's good, but it's not something i want in my body. I still eat it sometimes, it's not bad, and i don't even regret it; but it's still an action that i'm not being true to myself while i'm doing.
Some people it may not apply to, but i've never met one (Besides a lawyer) who's goal is to do that. Like that commercial, have you seen that one? with the little kids saying stuff like "when i grow up i wanna be a brown noser," "when i grow up i wanna be stuck in a dead end job?"
That's all i'm saying. People aren't crazy about arguing and in arguing (which i found i had been spending about 90% of my time in conversation doing) we're not being who we as people "really are."
>KMottus wrote in message <19990819071449.05615.00001...@ngol03.aol.com>... >>In article <7BQu3.3171$9K.3...@news.rdc1.nj.home.com>, "Larry Person" >><La...@LarryPerson.com> writes:
>>>Jim Foster wrote in message <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>... >>>> i got it --to my innermost being-- that we as >>>>people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;).
>>>Jim, I don't see that arguing and being our word are mutually exclusive.
>>I gotta agreed with Larry on this one. It greatly depends on >>what is driving the arguing, what's underneath it. But that'd >>get you into that grey area you don't like. Easier to just think >>all arguing/disagreement is bad, rather than discern what any >>particular arguement is about, and decide out of that.
>>K.
>>********************************************************* >>Access to power must be confined to those who are >>not in love with it. >>-Plato
je...@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, > "Jim Foster" <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote: > So Jim,
> Did you end up doing any stuff around the house? Or what?
> Jen.
LOL. I think the house is still dirty, but at least he got his mom to write up a list of things she wanted done. (Hard of hearing, Jim?) And don't forget about that great conversation they had.
In my experience, Landmarkians are big on talking about stuff they're going to do but not so good at actually doing it.
Mamie
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
mizma...@my-deja.com wrote: > In article <7ph3uk$ti...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > je...@my-deja.com wrote: > > In article <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, > > "Jim Foster" <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote: > > So Jim,
> > Did you end up doing any stuff around the house? Or what?
> > Jen.
> LOL. I think the house is still dirty, but at least he got his mom to > write up a list of things she wanted done. (Hard of hearing, Jim?) > And don't forget about that great conversation they had.
> In my experience, Landmarkians are big on talking about stuff they're > going to do but not so good at actually doing it.
> Mamie
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
i think it would be interesting to do a follow up on this in the near future and see if he really helps or not :)
-- Dont let anyone tell u, what u must do INXS
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
: LOL. I think the house is still dirty, but at least he got his mom to : write up a list of things she wanted done. (Hard of hearing, Jim?) : And don't forget about that great conversation they had.
Yes. That's the Housecleaning Information Form (HIF).
: In my experience, Landmarkians are big on talking about stuff they're : going to do but not so good at actually doing it.
> mizma...@my-deja.com wrote: > : LOL. I think the house is still dirty, but at least he got his mom to > : write up a list of things she wanted done. (Hard of hearing, Jim?) > : And don't forget about that great conversation they had.
> Yes. That's the Housecleaning Information Form (HIF).
> : In my experience, Landmarkians are big on talking about stuff they're > : going to do but not so good at actually doing it.
mizma...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7ph63r$v3...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >In article <7ph3uk$ti...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > je...@my-deja.com wrote: >> In article <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, >> "Jim Foster" <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote: >> So Jim,
>> Did you end up doing any stuff around the house? Or what?
>> Jen.
>LOL. I think the house is still dirty, but at least he got his mom to >write up a list of things she wanted done. (Hard of hearing, Jim?) >And don't forget about that great conversation they had.
>In my experience, Landmarkians are big on talking about stuff they're >going to do but not so good at actually doing it.
>Mamie
That takes me out of the classification "landmarkian" then.
patrick wrote in message <7phi7c$97...@nnrp1.deja.com>... > i think it would be interesting to do a follow up on this in the >near future and see if he really helps or not :)
je...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7ph3uk$ti...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >In article <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, > "Jim Foster" <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote: >So Jim,
>Did you end up doing any stuff around the house? Or what?
>Jen.
>> Hey everybody,
>> Last night i was having a conversation with my mom where we were >arguing >> about cleaning up our house. In the midst of it my mom was telling me >really >> what she wanted was to be listened to, i started to tell her i -was- >> listening, but... i really got, in that moment, that the way people >are in >> conversation is wanting to be expressed (know, acknowledged, >understood, or >> what have you). I was at a special evening last night where the forum >leader >> was talking about ~self expression~ is not getting something that's >inside >> of you out of yourself. It's making a statement of what you're to be, >and >> then being your word... doing things to express yourself in what you >stand >> for. In arguing with my mom... i got it --to my innermost being-- >that we as >> people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;). >We >> weren't being expressed in the commitment to improve our house, in >that; so >> i got up, told my mom to write me the info on what she needed help >with at >> what times, etc. and told her i'd do certian things around the house >> (dishes, and talk my brothers and sister, etc). We talked about it a >little >> more and the conversation ended up being cool.
>> What's funny tho is... that day, when i got home from work (i >work a >> 3am-8am shift) i declared to myself that that day i'd be effective in >> fulfilling what i said i'd do.
>> Today i'm declaring that there's gonna be some excitement ;) So >everyone, >> have fun today
>> there's no better day to do it (=
>> j2
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Larry Person wrote in message <7phjan$do...@its.hooked.net>...
>mizma...@my-deja.com wrote: >: LOL. I think the house is still dirty, but at least he got his mom to >: write up a list of things she wanted done. (Hard of hearing, Jim?) >: And don't forget about that great conversation they had.
>Yes. That's the Housecleaning Information Form (HIF).
>: In my experience, Landmarkians are big on talking about stuff they're >: going to do but not so good at actually doing it.
it's funny tho how i sit around and criticize people for not doing what they say they'll do... and then not step out and take any risk saying i'll do something alot of the time.
It's unfortunate most of the people who know how to do "things" or how people should do the things they say they will aren't out there doing "things".
Mark Cooper wrote in message <37BC82F2.6...@neotek.net>... >Larry Person wrote:
>> mizma...@my-deja.com wrote: >> : LOL. I think the house is still dirty, but at least he got his mom to >> : write up a list of things she wanted done. (Hard of hearing, Jim?) >> : And don't forget about that great conversation they had.
>> Yes. That's the Housecleaning Information Form (HIF).
>> : In my experience, Landmarkians are big on talking about stuff they're >> : going to do but not so good at actually doing it.
>Jim Foster wrote in message <7ph1vo$v...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net>... >>What i got was more... argument isn't a genuine communication.
>Oh no?
no. Feelings and other personal issues get in the way.
>>While, it >>would depend on whatever my word is as far as "keeping" it, or fulfilling >it >>in argument... i was going on -being true to myself, and in my word to >>myself-. Like argument does nothing to facilitate the function i'm pursuing >>in a conversation.
>You should lighten up.
(=
i'm not heavy.
>>Some people it may not apply to, >>but i've never met one (Besides a lawyer) who's goal is to do that.
>You don't know many new yorkers, do you?
Okay, lawyers and new yorkers.
What the insight is, is -i am not on this earth to argue and in argument i get stuck-
>>That's all i'm saying. People aren't crazy about arguing and in arguing >>(which i found i had been spending about 90% of my time in conversation >>doing) we're not being who we as people "really are."
>What? Whoever I'm being is who I really am.
But not always effectively who you want to be. (self image or self actualization)
mizma...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7pica1$rc...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >In article <7ph1vo$v...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net>, > "Jim Foster" <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> I hear that, Larry. It doesn't necissarily have to do with my word or >> my commitments; that was a little bland communicaton on my part.
>Have you considered taking CAP and CPP to remedy this?
not once
>> Arguments can be enjoyable, but i still would rather not do it. Like >> eating ice cream... it's good, but it's not something i want in my >> body. I still eat it sometimes, it's not bad, and i don't even regret >> it; but it's still an action that i'm not being true to myself while >> i'm doing.
>It sounds like ice cream is very upsetting to you. Did someone pelt >you with a spoonful in your childhood?
There's more there than ice cream. It could have been doing drugs, or telling my brother he's an idiot.
>> Like that commercial, have you seen that one? with the little kids >> saying stuff like "when i grow up i wanna be a brown noser," "when i >> grow up i wanna be stuck in a dead end job?"
>Yeah, and the "When I grow up, I wanna be an Intro. to the Forum Leader >and enroll people in the powerful possibilities they can create in >their lives" one. That one always makes me laugh.
>Mamie
Well, considering that i, as i kid always wanted to be excellent in everything i do (like, seen as the most awesome person, and help people), a "good" genuine person, and in profession, a writer.... And i wasn't geting there who i was being at the time, the commercial struck me as significant to the way people live their lives (and i had been living mine). I didn't go change everything after the commercial; i just thought people were all even more of idiots.
So once again i'll say, i'm not talking about or defending LEC. In my life... there are places i'm going, and i don't get there by arguing. It's an abiding point. I'm not on the path to being an ILFL and transforming your life. I'm on the path to being what i've wanted to since i was a small, and standing for what i want to generate in the world.
Jim Foster wrote in message <7pig41$59...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>... >dishes every night.
>I get to coordinate the laundry >and starting next week the house gets "transformed"
>j2
>je...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7ph3uk$ti...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >>In article <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, >> "Jim Foster" <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote: >>So Jim,
>>Did you end up doing any stuff around the house? Or what?
>>Jen.
>>> Hey everybody,
>>> Last night i was having a conversation with my mom where we were >>arguing >>> about cleaning up our house. In the midst of it my mom was telling me >>really >>> what she wanted was to be listened to, i started to tell her i -was- >>> listening, but... i really got, in that moment, that the way people >>are in >>> conversation is wanting to be expressed (know, acknowledged, >>understood, or >>> what have you). I was at a special evening last night where the forum >>leader >>> was talking about ~self expression~ is not getting something that's >>inside >>> of you out of yourself. It's making a statement of what you're to be, >>and >>> then being your word... doing things to express yourself in what you >>stand >>> for. In arguing with my mom... i got it --to my innermost being-- >>that we as >>> people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;). >>We >>> weren't being expressed in the commitment to improve our house, in >>that; so >>> i got up, told my mom to write me the info on what she needed help >>with at >>> what times, etc. and told her i'd do certian things around the house >>> (dishes, and talk my brothers and sister, etc). We talked about it a >>little >>> more and the conversation ended up being cool.
>>> What's funny tho is... that day, when i got home from work (i >>work a >>> 3am-8am shift) i declared to myself that that day i'd be effective in >>> fulfilling what i said i'd do.
>>> Today i'm declaring that there's gonna be some excitement ;) So >>everyone, >>> have fun today
>>> there's no better day to do it (=
>>> j2
>>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Jim Foster wrote in message <7ph1vo$v...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net>... >What i got was more... argument isn't a genuine communication.
Oh no?
>While, it >would depend on whatever my word is as far as "keeping" it, or fulfilling it >in argument... i was going on -being true to myself, and in my word to >myself-. Like argument does nothing to facilitate the function i'm pursuing >in a conversation.
You should lighten up.
>Some people it may not apply to, >but i've never met one (Besides a lawyer) who's goal is to do that.
You don't know many new yorkers, do you?
>That's all i'm saying. People aren't crazy about arguing and in arguing >(which i found i had been spending about 90% of my time in conversation >doing) we're not being who we as people "really are."
In article <7ph1vo$v...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jim Foster" <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I hear that, Larry. It doesn't necissarily have to do with my word or > my commitments; that was a little bland communicaton on my part.
Have you considered taking CAP and CPP to remedy this?
> Arguments can be enjoyable, but i still would rather not do it. Like > eating ice cream... it's good, but it's not something i want in my > body. I still eat it sometimes, it's not bad, and i don't even regret > it; but it's still an action that i'm not being true to myself while > i'm doing.
It sounds like ice cream is very upsetting to you. Did someone pelt you with a spoonful in your childhood?
> Like that commercial, have you seen that one? with the little kids > saying stuff like "when i grow up i wanna be a brown noser," "when i > grow up i wanna be stuck in a dead end job?"
Yeah, and the "When I grow up, I wanna be an Intro. to the Forum Leader and enroll people in the powerful possibilities they can create in their lives" one. That one always makes me laugh.
Mamie
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
In article <7pihm2$8g...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jim Foster" <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I'm going to be in a practice forum this weekend,
> so next week...
Oh Jim, Jim, Jim, :-) and you can't see the irony in this I guess - uh??:-)
Had a bit of a "row" with my 16 year old the other day too - about doing stuff round the house. He did the rubbish that night and has been just great round the place for the last week:-) Cool uh?
'Course we had the advantage of not having to put it off for a week while we went to forum:-)))) Double cool uh?
Sounds like you and your Mum are doing pretty normal everyday sort of parent/teenage stuff with pretty normal everyday sort of outcomes to me. Good on ya both!!
And my guess is both our families have a way to go yet - a few more 'rows', a few more understandings, a few more realizations - I think its called growing up:-)
Jen.
And my whole family is involved and even excited about what
> Jim Foster wrote in message <7pig41$59...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>... > >dishes every night.
> >I get to coordinate the laundry > >and starting next week the house gets "transformed"
> >j2
> >je...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7ph3uk$ti...@nnrp1.deja.com>... > >>In article <7pgasj$vd...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, > >> "Jim Foster" <illum...@mindspring.com> wrote: > >>So Jim,
> >>Did you end up doing any stuff around the house? Or what?
> >>Jen.
> >>> Hey everybody,
> >>> Last night i was having a conversation with my mom where we were > >>arguing > >>> about cleaning up our house. In the midst of it my mom was telling me > >>really > >>> what she wanted was to be listened to, i started to tell her i - was- > >>> listening, but... i really got, in that moment, that the way people > >>are in > >>> conversation is wanting to be expressed (know, acknowledged, > >>understood, or > >>> what have you). I was at a special evening last night where the forum > >>leader > >>> was talking about ~self expression~ is not getting something that's > >>inside > >>> of you out of yourself. It's making a statement of what you're to be, > >>and > >>> then being your word... doing things to express yourself in what you > >>stand > >>> for. In arguing with my mom... i got it --to my innermost being-- > >>that we as > >>> people aren't being our word when we argue (just look at lawyers ;). > >>We > >>> weren't being expressed in the commitment to improve our house, in > >>that; so > >>> i got up, told my mom to write me the info on what she needed help > >>with at > >>> what times, etc. and told her i'd do certian things around the house > >>> (dishes, and talk my brothers and sister, etc). We talked about it a > >>little > >>> more and the conversation ended up being cool.
> >>> What's funny tho is... that day, when i got home from work (i > >>work a > >>> 3am-8am shift) i declared to myself that that day i'd be effective in > >>> fulfilling what i said i'd do.
> >>> Today i'm declaring that there's gonna be some excitement ;) So > >>everyone, > >>> have fun today
> >>> there's no better day to do it (=
> >>> j2
> >>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > >>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
In article <7ph1vo$v...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jim Foster"
<illum...@mindspring.com> writes: >What i got was more... argument isn't a genuine communication. While, it >would depend on whatever my word is as far as "keeping" it, or fulfilling it >in argument... i was going on -being true to myself, and in my word to >myself-. Like argument does nothing to facilitate the function i'm pursuing >in a conversation.
Seems like your still trying to justify the position that arguing is ~bad and wrong~.
Argueing is argueing, sometimes its a cover to hide the real issue, but it can be genuine, authentic, useful, intimate, and just about any other ~way of being~ that exists.
K.
********************************************************* Access to power must be confined to those who are not in love with it. -Plato
