Help
aerie
all of you in a matter that has caused us much upset and concern. A box
sent to the Mountain Chalet containing a panel of the Peace Cloth
disappeared. We are seeking your help in the return of this panel. We are
offering a $100 reward for the return of this panel, no questions asked.
This panel is more than just a quilt....it is the heart and soul of those
who made those contributions to the Peace Cloth and it belongs with all the
other panels.
We also lost a piece of John's jeans at Windstar. They were ripped from the
Cloth. What everyone wants to keep in mind is that if individuals continue
to take from the Cloth, soon there will be no Cloth left to display. This
belongs to all of us...not to any one person....it is our tribute to John
and to Peace and no one person has the right to remove any section of the
Peace Cloth for their own personal use. This is not the first time that we
have lost a piece of John's jeans in displaying the Cloth....I pray and hope
it is the last, or soon there will be nothing of John's left in this
Cloth...
I'm sorry that we have to send this message out...we have been in shock
since the discovery and it is with great sadness that we are sending this
out to all of you. We know that 99% of you know the meaning and value of
this for each of us and for John's legacy...and to you we are thankful.
Debra Chilton
David Ladewig
"aerie" <aer...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:9ra8b4$j2t$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> We, the Board of the Peace Cloth, have decided to ask for the assistance
of
> all of you in a matter that has caused us much upset and concern. A box
> sent to the Mountain Chalet containing a panel of the Peace Cloth
> disappeared. We are seeking your help in the return of this panel. We
are
> offering a $100 reward for the return of this panel, no questions asked.
> This panel is more than just a quilt....it is the heart and soul of those
> who made those contributions to the Peace Cloth and it belongs with all
the
> other panels.
>
> We also lost a piece of John's jeans at Windstar. They were ripped from
the
> Cloth. What everyone wants to keep in mind is that if individuals
continue
> to take from the Cloth, soon there will be no Cloth left to display.
The Peace Cloth is such a noble idea to have some scum sucking dirt bags
steal "their" portion. I wish you well in your efforts at recovery. Theft
of creative works is one of the most vile crimes. I'll put $50 in the pot
too if it will help. Just tell me where to send it when you get the cloth
back.
Kindest Regards,
--
David Ladewig
www.cometravelwithme.com
aerie
My heart to yours,
Ann
Luvanotter
fingers that were at the auction last year? Such shameful behavior has NO
place in a celebration and memorial of *anyone's* life, much less John
Denver's.
Best, Gloria
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What a child doesn't receive he can seldom later give. P. D. James
R Stevens
wore, but come-on--who could live with themselves knowing they had stolen it
from the Peace Cloth?! I had heard that people tacked the patches on with
thread because this had been a problem before, so they must have had to work
at it. Hope whoever it was can't sleep at night due to a guilt y
conscience!
Barb
"Luvanotter" <luvan...@aol.comspamless> wrote in message
news:20011026203952...@mb-da.aol.com...
EAA139014
>Cloth. What everyone wants to keep in mind is that if individuals continue
>to take from the Cloth, soon there will be no Cloth left to display. This
>belongs to all of us...not to any one person....it is our tribute to John
The selfishness and fanaticism alone has angered me enough to offer a $5,000
reward for the identity and full, legal prosecution of the person who stole the
piece of jeans from the Cloth. I'm told that John's mother donated clothing
that belonged to her son for the purpose of what this Cloth would represent,
not only to fans of John's, but to people around the world who would have the
opportunity to see the Cloth displayed at any function that would promote
peace. For any one person to think that they are personally entitled to any
"piece of John" that they can find and take it by whatever manner they can is
about to have a reality check, and let this be a wake up call for anyone else
who might have the same thoughts in the future.
If the people who are in charge of maintaining the Cloth are willing to file
charges with the Pitkin County Sheriff's Dept. in Aspen against the person who
stole the piece of jeans at Windstar, I am willing to offer $5,000 to the
person who provides information leading to the arrest and prosecution of that
fan.
Please do not respond to me publicly here as I have had my own personal
disappointments with some of John's fans from this and other groups. I no
longer read this or any other message board that relates to John. I have only
posted this message as I was told by someone who cares about this particular
situation and I am offering whatever help I can to see that the act does not go
unnoticed or unpunished.
Jim
OooooBigMan
>reward
Ooooooooooo
Big man in Aspen is still angry with us fans. Why would you even offer $5000
if you hate us all so much? Trying to make points with people who don't buy
into your stories about being a friend of John's? Go back to your big house on
the hill where the fans can't get to you and leave this to us. We're the ones
who really care about John's legacy and not about you going flying or fishing
with him. We don't need your snobby big bucks, big man.
james.mullen1
people, whoever has it will be gloating about having the piece of cloth, but
why! they won't return it I bet, there are some sick people about.
peace
Cathie
Pamela Beasley
Hey, OBM
Why don't you crawl back into your cave.....
Pam
Stephen Russell
ESS
"OooooBigMan" <ooooo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011027104917...@mb-fl.aol.com...
SewPatti
Your are such a neat person. It sure is nice to see your post and I applaud
you for what you are doing. I hope you find the culprit....
Patti
SewPatti
Have you ever seen a fanatical "fan" in action??? It can be quite mind
boggling for those who don't think the same way....and scary!
Just my thoughts
Patti
SAJALOUISE
That is exactly why we chose to post our concern to as many groups as possible.
If someone starts gloating about having the lost panel...or even a piece of
John's jeans from the cloth, it is our hope that they will come forward and let
us know so we can take steps necessary to recover it. Peer pressure can work
in our favor......
Sarah
Diamondsnstones
mailbox. I have to believe that you either did not understand the purpose of
the offer or that you really hate John Denver and all who knew him. The 5000
dollars was offered in good faith not to trump anyone else's efforts but to
help them find the sick individual who would ruin the work of so many but most
especially for Erma. It was Erma who gave what little she has left of her
Johnny besides her memories that thank the Lord no one can take from her. She
gave it out of joy in knowing that the peace cloth would be seen by hundreds of
thousands and was a lasting legacy to John. How this must hurt her. Jim
wanted the culprit caught for this lovely lady and he wants whoever did these
things prosecuted. Who better to help than someone who lives in Aspen and can
push for prosecution? I do not know why you would respond in this manner. Did
you take the cloth? Are you afraid this might shed light on you?
It is so confusing here and that is why I left. Do you want to trash Jim or
do you want the jean pieces recovered? Do you think for one minute that Jim
has changed his mind about the *fanatics? He hasn't and is quite sure that
either a fanatic or someone who wants to profit from this theft and cares not a
wit for John did this. I personally vote for the later. I guess we guarded
the wrong things this year. The auction went without a hitch while the peace
cloth was pilfered.
I really wish that we could tell who the real players are on this ng and
which team they are on. Sue
CKenney194
>too if it will help
I will pledge $50.00 also. Let me know.
Peace,
Carole
Joe Keenan
bother to respond to Oooobigman. Big and a man this person isn't. What saddens
me is that this behavior (the stealing of the cloth and the anon post in
response to it) are the very reasons that JD was afraid of some of his "fans".
This can be a sick f'n world at times.
Joe Keenan
My question regarding the offer of reward money from various concern
individuals is simple: will that money really capture anyone? We are not
talking a whole lot (but if anyone cares to send me $5k I'd have no prob with
that). The offers are very very sincere, but it won't be money that captures
the idiot who stole the cloth. It will be ego. They'll talk to someone who will
care enough to tell someone else. We can only hope.
Claudia Levesque
Diamondsnstones wrote:
> I had to come here to reply to this post of oooooooBigMan which I found in my
> mailbox. I have to believe that you either did not understand the purpose of
> the offer or that you really hate John Denver and all who knew him. The 5000
> dollars was offered in good faith not to trump anyone else's efforts but to
> help them find the sick individual who would ruin the work of so many but most
> especially for Erma.
So very glad that you mentioned this, Sue.
This reward has been offered *specifically* because of Erma... and, as you
explained so well, he has made it very clear that his opinion of "fanatics" has not
changed; as a matter of fact, incidents such as this just help to solidify his
convictions. How could they not.
We should add that if anyone has even the slightest doubts about this reward
offer... it is *very* much for real. Some sane individual out there may know
something concrete about this theft. If so, Jim is very much looking forward to
hearing from you.
Claudia 'Hiway'
jdssquirrel
"Joe Keenan" <jkeen...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20011028001123...@mb-bk.aol.com...
Joe how is what your saying any different then how the police catch
folks.....usually the nimrod who did the misdeed ends up flapping his/her
jaws and someone else squeals. Hmmm ... seems to me that is why the police
(which I have relatives and friends who are officers) have informants...you
know informants inform ....rewards are still offered....oh and btw most
informants are paid a little a $20 here...a $50 there for their services....
I agree I could use $$ too $5K would be awesome...I'm in grad school. But
if I got that amount...hmmm pay the 1 months rent that I right now don't
know how I'm gonna pay...pay campus what I owe them so that I can enroll for
next semester...and then the remaining $3K+ would go to Windstar....for JD.
Joe Keenan
>folks.....usually the nimrod who did the misdeed ends up flapping his/her
>jaws and someone else squeals. Hmmm ... seems to me that is why the police
>(which I have relatives and friends who are officers) have informants...you
>know informants inform ....rewards are still offered....oh and btw most
>informants are paid a little a $20 here...a $50 there for their services....
Most people are turned in by friends and family...for no rewards. Usually
someone with an axe to grind or who knows right from wrong drops the dime so to
speak. I know a lot of police officers. Paid informants are TV fare. Yes, there
are some, but most tips to the police are anonymous and free.
And someone out there will soon know or already knows who took the pieces of
cloth.
Claudia Levesque
Hi Joe,
I'm not Sue <g>, but I think you might be quite right. Money can be quite an
incentive, though! It matters little which way works, as long as the end result is
the same.
By the way, the $5,000 is for information that leads to the arrest and conviction
of this turkey... not for anything less.
Best to you,
Claudia
>
>
Diamondsnstones
>We should add that if anyone has even the slightest doubts about this reward
>offer... it is *very* much for real. Some sane individual out there may know
>
I feel that I did not make something clear as Joe you are usually so clear in
your posts. I am out of practice I guess. The money is not offered for hints
or such things as I think so and so did this but it is specifically offered to
apprehend and COMVICT this cretin thus hoping that others out there who feel
the need to keep this up will understand that people turn people like them in
and they get convicted. At the rate stuff written by, sung by or owned by JD
is going for on internet auctions and elsewhere, this is grand theft. It is
certainly a pleasant idea to contemplate that this person or persons would be
turned in for free as a public duty but then one would have hoped that these
events would never have occurred in the first place. Since we know this is not
so and since we know that this is an extremely hurtful theft, the reward is
there to push the envelope and jail the culprit. And while we are at it can
anyone tell me who has my T-shirt. I was attached to that as well. Guess they
thought the eagle flying across the front was JD come to visit. It may not
work but it is the best we can do. Any other suggestions are heartily welcomed
I am sure. Sue
CAPNTEDY
guess I will never see the true Peace cloth as it was meant to be, due to some
very selfish nasty people in this world. I feel like a lot of people have been
violated. Not just a cloth.
Explorerdb
disgusting!!!! In this day and age, when we need to stick together as moral
"civil"ization, I find such conduct to be so offensive!! Although I know the
chances are slim, I hope the person comes to his/her senses and returns clotht
on his/her own!!! While the original offense cannot be erased, it may help to
restore some sense of "human decency" that we are all craving these days...
Peace to all,
Diane/NY
Cheri057
>From: diamond...@aol.com (Diamondsnstones)
>Date: Sat, Oct 27, 2001 18:33 EDT
> It was Erma who gave what little she has left of her
>Johnny besides her memories that thank the Lord no one can take from her.
Hi Sue~
I hope whoever did this is suffering a tremendous amount of guilt ..... but
if they're capable of doing it in the first place,
they may not have any conscience whatsoever, unfortunately.
I feel very badly for John's mother.
Cheri
Joe Keenan
the cloth did something out of character. And perhaps back in character so to
speak they will see what a foolish thing they did and do the right thing by
returning the material.
All fans of JD can do is talk openly about it and hope that the truth and
humility will root out the wrong.
That or send in the F-15s.
Lite_Of_Vega
> It's just cloth.
Try this again... tried to post and got bumped so please excuse if
this appears twice.
Yes, Joe, it is 'just cloth'. But for those of us who donated and/or
worked on this project, it is much more. It makes me feel sick to
know that some so-called John Denver fan(s) has stolen something(s)
that mean so much to so many people. It makes me feel violated to
know that some person or people may have the section that a group of
friends and I worked on. It makes me feel very angry to know that
there is a possibility the piece I donated is in the possession of
such a scumbag. Yes, Joe, the piece I donated was 'just cloth' but it
wsa much more - it was one of the few remaining receiving blankets I
have left from my daughter's infancy. That blanket was used to
swaddle a newborn girl while I rocked her and sang to her some of
John's songs. She would snuggle against that blanket in her crib,
while a John Denver record would play softly in the other room. She
would carry that blanket and would wave it while 'dancing' to such
songs as Calypso when she was a toddler.
So no, Joe, that blanket that may be stolen is NOT 'just cloth'. Just
as the other pieces of cloth that have been stolen are not 'just
cloth' to those who donated them to the Peace Cloth or to those who
worked so hard to sew those pieces of cloth together. The piece(s) of
John's jeans are NOT 'just cloth' to John's mother either. They are
cherished memories.
Mary
Joe Keenan
you put your disgust in the right place. The pieces of cloth sewn together
represent an idea, a hope, a history, a story. That piece of cloth by itself
had great meaning to Erma. And to JD's fans. But the cloth is not lessened by
its loss. The only thing lessened is the person low enough to steal it. But the
idea, the hope, the history of the cloth lives on. Just like JD's music. He's
gone but his music is not. The pieces of cloth is less, but it lives on.
There are far more disgusting things in the world going right now than some
twit stealing some cloth that belonged at one time to JD. We should show
contempt for the individual who stole the cloth and hope that their sense of
right and wrong will tilt back to right and they will return the cloth no
questions asked. Possible? Yes and no. But screaming at the tops of our lungs
and offering rewards may make us feel righteous, but it will be something as
simple and complex as human guilt that will return that cloth to its rightful
place, not dollar bills.
What would JD have done had be been living and someone had committed the same
act? How worked up would he have been? Would he be looking for conviction and
jailtime for the culprit? Or would he have been too busy with other things for
it to distract him?
KJ
KJ
"Lite_Of_Vega" <Lite_O...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8496f953.01102...@posting.google.com...
Joe Keenan
comment.
Let me tell you a story, a true story that happened here in Iowa just a few
weeks ago.
A woman ran to her porch to find her American flag on fire. Someone had twisted
up and end and lit it. She was able to put out the fire before the entire flag
was burned, but it was damaged terribly. The flag is a piece of cloth that
represents our nation. For many it represents the memories of those who have
sacrificed their lives for freedom. It represents to us the ideals stated in
our Constitution. To some it represents the opposite, but that is another
discussion entirely.
But to her, that flag was not about freedom or rights. It was about her father.
It was the flag that had draped his coffin. He had been a vet. That flag was
about the memories of her father. His hopes and desires, his successes and
failures. A life's worth of memories wrapped in cloth of red, white and blue.
Red, white and blue blowing in the Iowa wind to let everyone know that she
cares about America. That she remembers her father and his love for America.
And while she was heartbroken that someone (believed to be a teenager seen
running from the area) would be so crass as to light her flag on fire, it was
the memory of her father that she felt was being assaulted. But she publicly
stated that her anger towards the person who burned her flag could not lessen
her memory of her father. The flag represents him, but is not him. The flag
represents America, but is not America.
So while I can definitely understand your concerns and the concerns of others
who feel "violated" by this act, I can only suggest that you strive a little
harder to make an impact upon the JD community, your own personal lives, the
lives of Americans and World citizens and redirect this anger for a crass act
and make the world a better place to be. Otherwise, this anger and "violation"
will be redirected at others and that single wrong act of desecretion will have
"sewn" a wrong more terrible than the missing pieces of cloth.
Just as you have great memories about sewing the cloth together and how the
pieces of cloth held great memories for you, I ask that you remember that the
cloth that swaddled your daughter was just that, cloth. It is your daughter
that you remember and love. The cloth represented that memory. The cloth was
not that memory. And while pieces of cloth from JD's jeans may hold memories
for his mother, the jeans are not cherished "memories". John is. While Erma
should be revulsed by another JD fanatic's actions, I would hope that her
cherished memories of her son remain.
And for those who cannot understand my belief, understand this. I have lived
through a housefire. I have lost many "pieces" of memories. Photographs,
blankets, clothing, furniture, and so on. But my memories or feelings for
people in my life were not lessened by the loss of material possessions. While
I was angry and hurt at the loss of baby photos and my own clothing, I got over
it and moved on.
I ask that you let the hurt you feel now be lessened by the thought that the
person who committed this act is not worth the energy being spent. Take that
energy today and go for a walk. Call a friend you haven't talked to in a long
time. Lean over the fence and talk to that neighbor you just wave at. Smile at
the clerk at the store today and ask them how they are. Do something positive.
Pray for Theresa's husband. She could use the support. Walk for diabetes next
year. My son could use the support. Walk a mile for cancer. Donate your time.
Hug your son or daughter a little harder.
But get over the loss of pieces of cloth.
The Goddess in Tennis Shoes
>as the other pieces of cloth that have been stolen are not 'just
>cloth' to those who donated them to the Peace Cloth or to those who
>worked so hard to sew those pieces of cloth together. The piece(s) of
>John's jeans are NOT 'just cloth' to John's mother either. They are
>cherished memories.
wow...well, I'm speechless. I understand Joe's point. but I think I agree
with what you said more, Mary. yeah...memories...stolen by someone who won't
be able to appreciate them or what they mean.
thank you for making an eloquent speech.
jesse
"There is no agony like bearing an untold story inside of you"
-- Maya Angelou
http://www.forever-john-denver.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/My_Brothers_Keeper
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FanFiction
Lite_Of_Vega
>While
>I was angry and hurt at the loss of baby photos and my own clothing,
I got
>over
>it and moved on.
Just as we will, Joe, regarding the Peace Cloth. This comes on the
heels of a very tough emotional month and a half and this theft is
just perhaps hitting many of us harder than it normally would. It
took time for you to get over the loss of your possessions from your
house fire, Joe. Give us time too please.
As far as doing something more productive, those who know me know that
my life is always filled with lots of activities - family, friends,
work, volunteering for several causes. I've been very hard at work
for the past week on helping a very special American Flag Run that is
now entering Oklahoma today. It's a nationwide event, starting in
Boston and going to Los Angeles. It was started by United and
American Airlines employees as a part of their healing from the events
of September 11. You can read more about it at
http://www.flagrun.org.
I won't lose any sleep over the loss of the pieces of the Peace Cloth
for I believe what goes around does come around. The person or people
who stole the items will pay for their act, either by the American
justice system or God's justice system.
Mary
Joe Keenan
>be able to appreciate them or what they mean.
>
>jesse
I guess it's a guy/gal thing? :)
I just don't see jeans worn by one's son as being memories. The person who wore
them is now memory. Perhaps the jeans are tactile reminders of them, but the
jeans were stolen not the memories of the person who wore them. Maybe it's just
semantics. I do understand your feelings about the jeans.
If found, I'll be first in line to castigate the thief. Just don't wear
ourselves out looking for this person. They aren't worth the energy. Let the
police take care of it.
Claudia Levesque
> A woman ran to her porch to find her American flag on fire. Someone had twisted
> up and end and lit it. She was able to put out the fire before the entire flag
> was burned, but it was damaged terribly. The flag is a piece of cloth that
> represents our nation. For many it represents the memories of those who have
> sacrificed their lives for freedom. It represents to us the ideals stated in
> our Constitution. To some it represents the opposite, but that is another
> discussion entirely.
>
> But to her, that flag was not about freedom or rights. It was about her father.
> It was the flag that had draped his coffin. He had been a vet.
Oh God. That is horrid.
> So while I can definitely understand your concerns and the concerns of others
> who feel "violated" by this act, I can only suggest that you strive a little
> harder to make an impact upon the JD community, your own personal lives, the
> lives of Americans and World citizens and redirect this anger for a crass act
> and make the world a better place to be. Otherwise, this anger and "violation"
> will be redirected at others and that single wrong act of desecretion will have
> "sewn" a wrong more terrible than the missing pieces of cloth.
But there is another way to look at it Joe.... this crass type of pilfering will
continue unless there is an attempt to bring it to a halt. It has happened before
and as long as they are allowed to get away with it... it will happen again, and
again.
Unfortunately, hoping for a twinge of conscious on the part of the perpetrator(s)
to correct this situation is not terribly realistic, as they obviously lack any
kind of moral consciousness to begin with. You are dealing with a fanatic who will
stoop to any depth to get hold of a 'piece of John.' Does that sound absurd? It
*is*!!
> And for those who cannot understand my belief, understand this. I have lived
> through a housefire. I have lost many "pieces" of memories. Photographs,
> blankets, clothing, furniture, and so on. But my memories or feelings for
> people in my life were not lessened by the loss of material possessions. While
> I was angry and hurt at the loss of baby photos and my own clothing, I got over
> it and moved on.
That must have been an awful experience, but at least there is the small comfort of
knowing that the fire was not a deliberate act by some crazed fanatic. I hope!
There is a difference between loss from a tragic accident, and a premeditated act
of destruction.
> I ask that you let the hurt you feel now be lessened by the thought that the
> person who committed this act is not worth the energy being spent.
There may be hurt, but I feel that there is also some justifiable anger as well.
Perhaps the fact that we are all going through stressful times and uncertainty at
present makes this ridiculous act of vandalism all that more aggravating.
I believe the reward offers are from people who are just plain fed up - and want
this sort of thing to stop - or, at the very least, give the more baser elements
pause before considering doing this sort of act again. That alone would make these
efforts worth while!
Best to you,
Claudia - in sunny but chilly Ontario
C Reck
that scrap on Ebay. Just a thought.
Colleen
"SewPatti" <sewp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011027154503...@mb-cg.aol.com...
MontclrGrl
you're right, that person could try and sell that piece of material on
ebay....i think we should all keep an eye out and see what happens...
just a thought...
Linda
..."every minute that you spend on the internet is a minute lost from life
istelf...log off" ~~unknown~~
jdssquirrel
"Joe Keenan" <jkeen...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
> >yeah...memories...stolen by someone who won't
> >be able to appreciate them or what they mean.
> >
>
> >jesse
>
> I guess it's a guy/gal thing? :)
>
hard to hang on to what I have in a storage unit...I could sell the items,
make a fair sum considering we are talking antique furniture....but this is
the furniture that I have from the Aunt and Uncle that raised me....this is
the furniture I sat at to do homework while growing up...according to my
sister I'm to stuck on material things...very materialistic. No its the
fact I can't hug my Aunt and Uncle anymore...I can't call them and say I got
an A on my midterm...its what I have left to touch that they too touched.
Erma has proven extremely generous to share these jeans...she could have
them to hold and cry on....she has chosen to share. I am appalled to know
someone does not respect HER enough to not mess with the cloth.
I have spent many hours hurt by my sister's comments...she doesn't
understand...she points out like you did how much she has lost...she lost
things because her husband's an idiot that doesn't care and in such doesn't
make sure bills are paid or food is bought. Sometimes that not caring is a
facade....sometimes it means the person didn't really care...and sometimes
it means the person doesn't know how to express the caring, the hurt and
the frustration.
All I know is that I fight to hold on to some material things that hold
special meaning. Partially because I don't have the people to hold
anymore....and partially to spur me on when I feel down, to encourage me to
keep plodding along...because I know that's what would have been vocalized
to me.
Cheri057
><jdssq...@john-denver.org>
>Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001 14:22 EST
>...I could sell the items,
>make a fair sum considering we are talking antique furniture....but this is
>the furniture that I have from the Aunt and Uncle that raised me....this is
>the furniture I sat at to do homework while growing up...according to my
>sister I'm to stuck on material things...very materialistic.
Good grief....I'm in tears.
I just watched the memorial service for WTC victims on TV.....in total, my
county and the county just north of us lost over 120 people, so my nerves are a
bit raw.
You're sister is WRONG...hanging on to material things because of
sentiment..has nothing to do with being materialistic ::major rolling eyes::.
I dunno, I lost my Mom last Spring...and I often wear her diamond ring not to
"impress" people....but because Mom wore it EVERY DAY.... it helps me feel
"connected" to her.
Lovely, heart felt post..and so very true.
Cheri
Luvanotter
the furniture that I have from the Aunt and Uncle that raised me....this is
the furniture I sat at to do homework while growing up... >>
>snip<
<<
All I know is that I fight to hold on to some material things that hold
special meaning. Partially because I don't have the people to hold
anymore.... >>
I can relate. My parents divorced when I was young and I never inherited the
china and silver, etc. and always felt there was no "continuity" or
"connection" to my family that I saw in other friends' homes.
My Grandmother took me in when I was 14 and she had made a quilt for each of
her children and grandchildren as well as having purchased a set of china for
each of her children. When she died, I never got anything as it had all been
grabbed and carted away before half the family knew she was dead!
Recently, an aunt of mine passed away and I have been in contact with so many
relatives I haven't seen in 40 years and lo and behold, they are all sharing
items with me from the family. My bedroom has turned into a trip down
nostalgia lane! I have my Great-Grandmother's lamp, her very first bedspread
given her in 1859 by her Father, a quilt my Grandmother made, a painting my
Uncle did, a rocking chair another Uncle owned, a table my Father gave my Aunt
when she married and a chest that my Granddaddy kept his shirts in!
During the recent fires in Jackson, everyone was taking about "what would you
save" if the fire threatened your home. My immediate response was "Everything
in my bedroom!" I can buy more furniture, appliances and clothes, etc. but I
cannot replace these old things that hold so many memories and it would be sad
indeed to lose them now that I finally have them and the feeling of
"connection" they provide.
Yes, they are just "things" but they belonged to people who were important to
me and I want them to continue to exist and be passed on to someone else in the
family who will also enjoy them and wish, as I do, that they could talk and
tell us soooo many stories from 150 years ago!
Best, Gloria
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What a child doesn't receive he can seldom later give. P. D. James
Christine Moon
John" that they would steal to get such item.
--
Peace,
Christine
*********************************
moon...@netcomuk.co.uk
www.fojd.org.uk
*********************************
"Claudia Levesque" <c...@reach.net> wrote in message
news:3BDC44A0...@reach.net...
Laura
>ebay...
Well.. I doubt they could get away with it.
How many people would then turn them in for stealing it?
Ebay would have major complaints and have to pull it anyway...
If that's the plan, lets hope they realize that's not gonna work now..
or hope they are THAT stupid and get caught!
Laura
The Goddess in Tennis Shoes
you know, I think it is. not meaning to get sexist, but there are some
fundamental differences in men and women. let's face it, women do get a little
more emotionally wrapped in the memories of items and the symbolism.
I understood your point, Joe. they are just, after all, things...intangible
things. if push came to shove, which would I die protecting--my son? or my
son's clothes? if something must be stolen, I would rather a pair of jeans
were stolen than a life.
I survived a fire, too, Joe...1978. I lost my best friend, my dog, Fuji. I
lost tangible things that could be replaced and I was ok. it was losing the
things that couldn't be replace...like things my late Grandfather made of wood.
things my late Grandmother made of cloth. I moved on, but if I had the chance
to have those things again, I'd take it. they were things given to me by those
who are gone and can't replace them so easily.
a simple pair of jeans can be replaced and the wearer can't, that's for
certain. but...the jeans were worn by him. they carry his scent and they'll
never be worn again.
sorry, I"m gettin' a bit maudlin. giggle, a very female thing! thanks for the
discussion, Joe.
Explorerdb
How sad, Jesse. Sorry to hear that....
Diane/NY
The Goddess in Tennis Shoes
>John" that they would steal to get such item.
the sort of soul that would have stolen FROM him, Christine. and that's even
sadder.
The Goddess in Tennis Shoes
>
>How sad, Jesse. Sorry to hear that....
>
>Diane/NY
thank you, m'darlin'. too many nightmares at the time. not something I would
ever want to wish one another soul. and that dog helped me survive an abusive
parent and my parents' divorce...and helped me move on. that was a friend.
fortunately, it was smoke that took his life. he simply went to sleep and
didn't suffer. thank the Gods.
Explorerdb
helped me move on. that was a friend. >
Fuji sounds like he was a real hero, Jesse.
There is nothing like the bond between a canine companion and its human partner
- it brings me so much happiness to hear when others experience that. "Mocha",
my white german shepherd, is my best friend...and probably knows more about me
than Joe, LOL!!!
You know, "therapy dogs" have been assigned to some of l the counseling centers
around NYC to help those who are grieving the recent loss of their loved one.
They say it has been particularly successful with children and adolescents.
Animals bring us so much comfort...
Fuji's loyal spirit is alive in your heart, I am sure!
Peace,
Diane/NY
SewPatti
You are right.....I lost my Grandmother 3 months before my wedding. A woman
who was the coolest person on the planet in my eyes. She was so excited for
this wedding, she missed my shower by 3 days and the wedding.....there was a
very large void that day. This same woman would have loved to have met my
children and they her...but it can't happen that way and it makes me sad. How
they would have loved each other....she was a Grandmother. Her love was
unconditional. To this day (20 years later) I have in my posession two of her
handkies (she always had one when you needed it) in a plastic bag in the back
of my drawer. Every so often, I pause in my busy life.. .take out that handky
and smell it. It brings me back to the days when I would snuggle in her lap
and play with her rings. The times that I used to spend with her that were so
special to me. YES, a piece of cloth can have meaning.....to this day it still
does for me. I have thought about framing them but decided against it....they
would lose their smell. Maybe I'm just nuts....but that is the way it is for
me. It's been about a year and a half since I last visited them....maybe I'll
go do that now! I will ALWAYS miss her.
Just my thoughts.....
Patti
Sewp...@aol.com
SewPatti
Nice to hear from you....hope all is well.
If that piece comes up on ebay...it is my understanding that the person needs
to be reported right away and I believe that ebay will remove the item from
auction. Ebay seems like a pretty upfront organization....so we need to keep
our eyes open....if anyone sees it...we need to email Ebay.
Just my thoughts,
Sewp...@aol.com
MontclrGrl
it's good to hear from you as well..
i hardly ever check out Ebay, but i think i will check it out every now and
then and see if anything turns up...
next year it looks like we'll have to have 'security' at Windstar when the
Peace Cloth is presented again...it's a terrible shame. i believe an "Alfie"
book was 'lifted' last year at the auction too...
take care...
Jdmountainwander
group to give her money for John's plane parts under the plan of burying them
or something and then kept them and put them on an alter? And she is saying
that other people are crazy and can't understand why they would steal John's
jeans and a peace cloth piece. Did she not steal from the entire group who
gave her money and now hoards some of John's plane. Pretty sick if you ask me.
Who really wants to hear what she has to say on this or any subject.
JDwanderer
Joe Keenan
>sorry, I"m gettin' a bit maudlin. giggle, a very female thing! thanks for
>the
>discussion, Joe.
>
It always nice to share ideas and stories here.
SewPatti
>Who really wants to hear what she has to say on this or any subject. <<
Obviously you never stuck around to hear the FULL explanation about why that
happened the way Jesse had it happen. And it appears that you don't like what
she did. I came away fron that whole thing with a completely different
understanding of what would happen in the end. I for one enjoy hearing from
Jesse. Maybe you should email her privately and she could explain it in a
clearer way for you??
Just my thoughts......
Patti
.boB
> Again, Mary, I have responded to those who didn't care for my "just cloth"
> comment.
>
> Let me tell you a story, a true story that happened here in Iowa just a few
> weeks ago.
>
> (snip)
> Hug your son or daughter a little harder.
>
> But get over the loss of pieces of cloth.
>
Wow. I usually just sit back a read these posts. But I have to comment here,
Joe. That's some powerful writing, and a powerful message.
--
.boB
The Goddess in Tennis Shoes
>here,
>Joe. That's some powerful writing, and a powerful message.
yeah, he's good at that!
Joe Keenan
>will
>continue unless there is an attempt to bring it to a halt. It has happened
>before
>and as long as they are allowed to get away with it... it will happen again,
>and
>again.
The pilfering that we saw will never end. That is a sad part of human nature. I
agree that talking about the incident and trying to find out who done it is
important; I'm just worried that in the context of crime annals, it is a very
minor act by a very sad individual. And I have this nagging feeling that the
police and justice system will not give it the highest level of attention. The
act was very symbolic of what is wrong with fandom in general, but the police
should have more trying crimes to worry about.
>Unfortunately, hoping for a twinge of conscious on the part of the
>perpetrator(s)
>to correct this situation is not terribly realistic, as they obviously lack
>any
>kind of moral consciousness to begin with. You are dealing with a fanatic
>who will
>stoop to any depth to get hold of a 'piece of John.' Does that sound absurd?
>It
>*is*!!
It is absurd to steal pieces of cloth. And it is hopeful thinking that the
fanatic who stole them may have a conscience. But what else is there? Unless
they tell another person about the pieces or someone sees them in that person's
possession, what chance does a reward have of catching them? Unless the
investigative agency in charge of the case has an idea of who had access to
these pieces at the time of the theft, there is little hope otherwise.
>There is a difference between loss from a tragic accident, and a premeditated
>act
>of destruction.
Hmmm. I see your point, but the loss of a whole house of goods versus a view
snippets of cloth...I hope you can see the difference there. I was able to get
over the loss of a lifetime of material possessions. I would hope that JD's
fans can get over the loss of a pieces of his jeans. What we should be mad at
is RCA for not releasing new material that has to be locked up somewhere!
>There may be hurt, but I feel that there is also some justifiable anger as
>well.
>Perhaps the fact that we are all going through stressful times and
>uncertainty at
>present makes this ridiculous act of vandalism all that more aggravating.
I think the anger at 9-11 has a lot to do with blowing things out of proportion
in a lot of incidents around the country. Hopefully this new found sensitivity
will also lead to new insights into dealing with our fellow people be it in
one's own neighborhood or in another country.
>I believe the reward offers are from people who are just plain fed up - and
>want
>this sort of thing to stop - or, at the very least, give the more baser
>elements
>pause before considering doing this sort of act again. That alone would make
>these
>efforts worth while!
And I have no problem with the reward offers. IMHO I don't they they will bring
this thief to justice. I hope I am proved wrong! But perhaps the offers of
rewards should be sent to charity instead where it will do more good than to be
given to someone who helps lead the thief to conviction.
Joe Keenan
thief. If the thief reads AFJD, then they will know not to post their pilferage
on eBay.
David Ladewig
> I believe the reward offers are from people who are just plain fed up -
and want
> this sort of thing to stop - or, at the very least, give the more baser
elements
> pause before considering doing this sort of act again. That alone would
make these
> efforts worth while!
>
> Best to you,
>
> Claudia - in sunny but chilly Ontario
>
Hi Claudia,
I agree with this. It is difficult to "clean up the world" when our own are
acting like fools.
David
EAA139014
offered, and that some people may have misconstrued the purpose of it,
particularly Joe. So I would like to clarify a few things about this.
The reward is offered to the person who provides information that leads to the
arrest and the conviction of the person who stole the piece of jeans, even if
that conviction consists only of one week's community service of walking
homeless dogs in Aspen, ten days of probation of remaining at least 50 feet
from any denim material whatsoever, and the restriction that the thief is never
to set foot on Windstar land for a minimum of 75 years. I don't care what the
courts determine as punishment for petty theft in this case. The punishment
for this particular person would be the fact that their name would be known to
all John Denver fans around the world and they wouldn't be allowed to set foot
in the Rocky Mountains again without harsh criticism and the possibility of
John himself sending down a lightning bolt upon their empty skull for stealing
something that belonged to his mother. Their punishment would be a lifetime of
being banned from "the family" of John Denver. I care about fanaticism to
this sick degree, which is why I have such low respect for fanatics of John's
and offered a high reward to try to show that I despise this kind of
idolization of anyone. I have offered the reward because I know that Erma
trusted John's fans enough to allow some of his clothing to be sewn into this
cloth. I also know that she is wise enough to know that the odds of someone
stealing her son's clothing from it was a very strong probability, unfortunate
as it is. It was only a matter of time. That's the reality of fanaticism.
The offer of the reward isn't included with other offers for a box with another
panel that is missing. My offer only stands for the piece of jeans that
someone felt entitled to in hopes that holding a worn out, faded, small piece
of denim will somehow bring them closer to John's "spirit and being".
It would be a waste of time for people to keep an eye on online auctions
because that piece of cloth won't ever be sold. It wasn't stolen for profit.
That piece of cloth was taken by someone who at this very minute is either
holding it in her hand, or carrying it in her pocket. She sleeps with it. She
showers with it. She takes it everywhere she goes. She cries over it and wipes
her tears with it. That is the kind of fanaticism that I detest because that
piece of denim is no more an essence of John than the last kleenex you blew
your nose with.
My final thoughts on this is that I believe the members of the board of people
in charge of the cloth are not particularly interested in pressing legal
charges against the thief. I believe they're main interest is in having the
items taken returned to them without any questions asked or answered, without
anyone having to go through the humility of admitting they had a momentary
lapse of human intelligence, and without anyone on the board having to come
down as the heavy and filing charges or identifying this person.
Lastly,
>From: jkeen...@aol.comnospam (Joe Keenan)
>But perhaps the offers of
>rewards should be sent to charity instead where it will do more good than to
>be
>given to someone who helps lead the thief to conviction.
This statement pisses me off almost as much as the fanatic who took the jeans.
Joe, you have no idea how much money I donate to charity over the years or over
the recent weeks. How I choose to spend my money isn't your choice to decide or
even up for your suggestion or debate. I lost two friends at the WTC, so don't
ever suggest openly to someone you don't know how or where they should spend
their money.
Jim
Luvanotter
<< the possibility of
John himself sending down a lightning bolt upon their empty skull for stealing
something that belonged to his mother. >>
Not trying to belabor the issue or nitpick, but once a gift is given, it
belongs to the recipient. So, the material that Erma donated didn't belong to
her anymore. And I'd be willing to bet that after lo these many years of
*knowing* the strangeness of some fans of the famous, that she understands why
the person took it and is not standing in judgement of him/her. But I'd also
be willing to bet that she, like us, is sad and has a hard time understanding
the desperation with which some attach themselves to the famous and anything
remotely pertaining to them.
Just MHO, Gloria
Claudia Levesque
Hi Gloria,
> <snip>
>
> << the possibility of
> John himself sending down a lightning bolt upon their empty skull for stealing
> something that belonged to his mother. >>
>
> Not trying to belabor the issue or nitpick, but once a gift is given, it
> belongs to the recipient. So, the material that Erma donated didn't belong to
> her anymore. And I'd be willing to bet that after lo these many years of
> *knowing* the strangeness of some fans of the famous, that she understands why
> the person took it and is not standing in judgement of him/her. But I'd also
> be willing to bet that she, like us, is sad and has a hard time understanding
> the desperation with which some attach themselves to the famous and anything
> remotely pertaining to them.
It should have read "HAD belonged to his mother".... a minor typo of the omission
sort.
Best to you,
Claudia 'Hiway'
Joe Keenan
>I'm told that there have been a few posts on the matter of the reward that
>was
>offered, and that some people may have misconstrued the purpose of it,
>particularly Joe. So I would like to clarify a few things about this.
I do hope you read the context of the posts regarding rewards, Jimmy, and did
not garner your information second hand. Posts taken out of context or snipped
can have a far different meaning than may have been intended.
>The offer of the reward isn't included with other offers for a box with
>another
>panel that is missing. My offer only stands for the piece of jeans that
>someone felt entitled to in hopes that holding a worn out, faded, small piece
>of denim will somehow bring them closer to John's "spirit and being".
>
Why not equal anger for someone else's "memories"? Is that because you were a
friend of JD's and consider the loss of his mother's donated cloth more
important? Understandable, I guess, but if the cloth has "no more an essence of
John than the last kleenex you blew your nose with", then why offer so much
money for it? To out the thief? Do you think a large reward will bring someone
forward? The only way that would happen would be if the culprit talked, and if
they are as fanatical as you paint them, I doubt they are telling anyone what
they did. Just my honest opinion.
Joe Keenan
>>From: jkeen...@aol.comnospam (Joe Keenan)
>
>>But perhaps the offers of
>>rewards should be sent to charity instead where it will do more good than to
>>be
>>given to someone who helps lead the thief to conviction.
>
>This statement pisses me off almost as much as the fanatic who took the
>jeans.
>Joe, you have no idea how much money I donate to charity over the years or
>over
>the recent weeks. How I choose to spend my money isn't your choice to decide
>or
>even up for your suggestion or debate. I lost two friends at the WTC, so
>don't
>ever suggest openly to someone you don't know how or where they should spend
>their money.
>
>Jim
Dude, Jimmy. Try anger management courses. This is exactly what I was talking
about. Misplace anger and negativity towards other "sewn" by a thief who is
nameless and faceless.
I dared to say publicly that I thought the call for rewards (not just your own,
in fact I have never singled out anyone) was well meant but the money could go
to better use somewhere else. Why give thousands of dollars to someone who may
not be worthy of the money just because they "outed" or "ratted" or "brought to
justice" a thief who stole cloth that is meaningless (paraphrasing your words).
So in publicly stating that I thought the reward money would go better to
charity (again, not naming names in any posts), you have the audacity to
compare my statement to the actions of a cowardly thief. I for one think your
statement ("this statement pisses me off almost as much as the fanatic who took
the jeans") is way off-base and says more about you than me, but I'm sure that
you probably don't give a rat's ass. And we will get the usual Jim is going
through a lot in his life explanation from people who know you to explain your
incredible stretch between a criminal act of a coward and my suggesting that
reward money could be better spent elsewhere. Jimmy, I don't care if you wipe
your ass with 20's and 50's. It's your money. Do what you want.
As as for the WTC tragedy, what the hell does that have to do with my talk
about charity? You write that you lost two friends there. Lots of people did.
What the heck does that have to do with your giving money to charity? Or my
suggesting that reward money and the negative energy being expended is
misplaced? And if you publicly post here, Jimmy, here's the "nitty-gritty"
deal: it's an open forum, debate is allowed, it's unmoderated. If you don't
care for unmoderated dialogue, then perhaps you should go back to emailing
your select list of JD fans where it is safer for you and you can control
everything and where I'm sure no one dares to bring up any subject that Jimmy
doesn't like.
I
Luvanotter
own,
in fact I have never singled out anyone) was well meant but the money could go
to better use somewhere else. >>
Since I am one of those who offered to throw in $50, I guess that gives me the
right to comment, eh? LOL
Seriously, my husband and I have a charitable foundation through which we
donate monies each December. This does not preclude me from kicking in $50 out
of my own pocket. It's not the $50 so much as trying to show support for those
who are hurt and bewildered by these thefts. And, yes, that $50 can (and
probably will) be spent elsewhere since it's highly unlikely, IMHO, that the
person responsible will ever be caught and/or prosecuted.
As for the rest of your post, I couldn't agree more.
Best, Gloria
Luvanotter
It should have read "HAD belonged to his mother".... a minor typo of the
omission
sort. >>
Well, I suppose if a sin is going to be commited, the sin of omission is one of
the better ones---but not nearly so much fun! ;O)
EAA139014
>Why not equal anger for someone else's "memories"?
It's my perogative to spend my energies as well as my money where I choose.
>Is that because you were a
>friend of JD's and consider the loss of his mother's donated cloth more
>important?
No, it's because I loate fanaticism of this type. I thought I made that
perfectly clear in my post, but apparently not, or else you overlooked that
part.
>I guess, but if the cloth has "no more an essence of
>John than the last kleenex you blew your nose with", then why offer so much
>money for it? To out the thief?
Yep. Maybe you did understand afterall.
EAA139014
>Do you think a large reward will bring someone
>forward?
It's a possibility.
Joe Keenan
profession that has had contacts with police in several cities. Rewards of this
amount for so minor a crime usually have little effect. Hey, we might get lucky
and someone turns in the thief who took some cloth that belonged to Erma's son.
But would we want that kind of person to get some money? How would they have
had the knowledge of who participated in this incident? And what does Erma
think? Does she know? How does she want this handled?
The thief should be pilloried. I'll be there to heap my scorn upon them as well
(Jimmy believes the thief to be a woman apparently). Someone who is offering an
opinion about rewards does not. Jimmy needs to take a chill pill and spend less
time overreacting to some guy on the internet who thought the money being spent
on conviction and ridicule of a sad individual who has no life was misspent.
Just my opinion and not necessarily the right one.
EAA139014
>Dude, Jimmy. Try anger management courses
> go back to emailing
your select list of JD fans where it is safer for you and you can control
everything and where I'm sure no one dares to bring up any subject that Jimmy
doesn't like.
Thanks, pal. You just answered a question that many people have wondered about
when they read those exact same words and sentiments on another message board.
It's obvious that you have no idea what the email list was about or what was
discussed by a number of people. I think you also have a huge problem with the
fact that there were people interested enough in being on a private email list
to know more about John. What's really at the core of this, Joe? Does it come
down to jealousy, as some people have suggested to me? Have you tried jealousy
management counseling?
>Why give thousands of dollars to someone who may
>not be worthy of the money just because they "outed" or "ratted"
Because it's my money. Who are you to judge who may or may not be worthy of
receiving $5,000? It's simple. Anyone with knowledge of the thief who can
provide the proof that will stand up in court is worthy enough by my standards
to get a check from me.
>So in publicly stating that I thought the reward money would go better to
>charity (again, not naming names in any posts), you have the audacity to
>compare my statement to the actions of a cowardly thief.
You have the audacity to tell someone you don't know where their money would be
better spent? According to whose standards and values?
>And we will get the usual Jim is going
>through a lot in his life explanation from people who know you
From who? My life is incredibly wonderful. I spent the last two and a half
weeks having a great time. I visited a friend in Arizona, played a few rounds
of golf; spent several days in Mesquite, Nevada with a woman I love dearly.
What "lot" are you under the impression that I'm stressed with that would cause
me to offer a reward to filter out a sick fanatic?
> I don't care if you wipe
>your ass with 20's and 50's. It's your money. Do what you want.
You care very much or you wouldn't keep trying to impress your point of putting
the money to better use by having it go to a charity. I have too much respect
for the past presidents who have their faces on the currency than to wipe my
ass with them. 'll save my ass wiping for the printed out email you sent me.
>As as for the WTC tragedy, what the hell does that have to do with my talk
>about charity?
You must be joking. Please tell me you're not really this stupid or that you
have your head so far up your ass that you aren't aware of the numerous
charitable functions that have taken place over the past month to raise money
for victim's families, the NYFD and NYPD, the Red Cross, etc.
> here's the "nitty-gritty"
>deal: it's an open forum, debate is allowed, it's unmoderated.
Then, pal, debate all you want with whoever you want about how I spend my
money. Don't hold any high hopes for me to change my habits just because you
don't like where my money goes or for what reasons I choose to spend it.
Jim
Joe Keenan
>
>It's my perogative to spend my energies as well as my money where I choose.
>
Yes, you can. And hopefully, your $5000 reward for the conviction of the thief
will lead to their capture and ridicule. And perhaps those who also lost some
cloth of memories will also have justice inadvertantly thanks to your need to
capture the fanatic.
>>Is that because you were a
>>friend of JD's and consider the loss of his mother's donated cloth more
>>important?
>
>No, it's because I loate fanaticism of this type. I thought I made that
>perfectly clear in my post, but apparently not, or else you overlooked that
>part.
No, I read what you wrote carefully. I didn't want to overreact to your
statement that you were pissed so I tried to read between the lines as well. I
still find your statement that I almost pissed you off as much as the fanatical
thief rather silly, but I'm told that is just you. I still wonder why you want
to spend so much energy trying to catch a loser like the cloth thief and spend
negative time here as well. So often people pop in here and complain that there
is too much negativity here and pop back out. Know what I mean?
>>I guess, but if the cloth has "no more an essence of
>>John than the last kleenex you blew your nose with", then why offer so much
>>money for it? To out the thief?
>
>Yep. Maybe you did understand afterall.
See, Jimmy. I can get to the nitty-gritty when I need to. I guess I just have
better things to do than spend that kind of money on a cloth thief. Perhaps if
I had the resources you apparently do, I also could offer a sizable amount of
cash for the reward. But I still stand my belief that the money is spent better
elsewhere. It's your cash and it's your party, but you don't have to cry if you
want to.
Luvanotter
discussed by a number of people. I think you also have a huge problem with the
fact that there were people interested enough in being on a private email list
to know more about John. What's really at the core of this, Joe? Does it come
down to jealousy, as some people have suggested to me? Have you tried jealousy
management counseling?
>>
Gee, Jim. This is sounding all too familiar. Way back when, when *I* said I
thought you were coming across as "a bit arrogant", I was lambasted by many and
accused of being one of the fanatical fans you speak of and of being jealous
because you knew JD and I didn't. Guess what? There ARE those of us out here
who admired JD and his music who don't need or want to be on anyone's special
"list" and wonder why WE are accused of being "jealous". I know people who
knew John but their knowledge of the man is only a small part of our
friendships and if they want to share a story, that's fine. I certainly am not
"jealous" of them for who they knew and they are not "jealous" of me for the
famous I know. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
<< My life is incredibly wonderful. I spent the last two and a half
weeks having a great time. I visited a friend in Arizona, played a few rounds
of golf; spent several days in Mesquite, Nevada with a woman I love dearly.
What "lot" are you under the impression that I'm stressed with that would cause
me to offer a reward to filter out a sick fanatic?
>>
I'm curious about your fixation on fanatical fans. You sometimes appeard tell
you that "it comes with the territory". I, personally, find these people hard
to understand but try to sympathize with them. Perhaps they don't have much of
a life and clinging to JD and his memory gives them some sort of comfort. Who
am I to judge their behavior although I find it strange.
Anyway, I'm happy for you that you have JD fans that you can enjoy with your
private e-mailing. But please lay off of the rest of us who have chosen not to
be on it.
Thanks, Gloria
Luvanotter
you that "it comes with the territory". >>
Gee, I don't know what happened here. What I said was: You sometimes appear
to wish that fanatical fans were dead or behind bars. Even JD would tell you
that "it comes with the territory".
Joe Keenan
>Thanks, pal. You just answered a question that many people have wondered
>about
>when they read those exact same words and sentiments on another message
>board.
>It's obvious that you have no idea what the email list was about or what was
>discussed by a number of people.
I am very familar with the email list. Very familar.
>I think you also have a huge problem with the
>fact that there were people interested enough in being on a private email
>list
>to know more about John. What's really at the core of this, Joe? Does it
>come
>down to jealousy, as some people have suggested to me? Have you tried
>jealousy
>management counseling?
>
Jealousy of what? Your stories about JD? If I wanted to join the email list, I
would have asked. But your tales are all over the internet. Did you really
think you could pass along some stories about JD to total strangers and expect
them to keep quiet? Did you even know who you were emailing? Of course not. You
show a certain naivete about the internet. You've stated as much here and
elsewhere before. I'm glad you have a caring relationship with JD. And I think
it's neat that you want to talk about it. Perhaps your methods are a little out
of synch and I think you are wasting your time going after me...again. Yes,
again. You thought the first time you popped in here that I had a problem with
you. I didn't then and I don't now. But if it is what you believe, oh well. I
won't lose any sleep about it. And I'll remember those posts complaining about
negative posts and just look back at this thread. Where has the negativity come
from and from whom?
As for your tales about JD, you never did pass on the R and X rated versions of
the fishing story about the college girls and JD. Kinda disappointing. I like a
good naughy tale! And your photos of the hills around Aspen were pretty, but
it's hard to not take a decent pix of that part of the world, agreed?
>Because it's my money. Who are you to judge who may or may not be worthy of
>receiving $5,000? It's simple. Anyone with knowledge of the thief who can
>provide the proof that will stand up in court is worthy enough by my
>standards
>to get a check from me.
I didn't judge anyone, Jimmy. You did. You were the one who got pissed off
because I wondered aloud if the money was spent better elsewhere. You could
have continued the dialogue far more civally. I have never tried to make this
personal, Jim, you have. You have the problem, not I. Again, it's your money.
If you want to give $5K to someone who turns in their family member, friend or
acquaitance, so be it. If it was my cash and I had the ability to donate those
kind of funds, I would give that money to a better cause than revenge/justice
in the name of Erma or JD. But that's just me. I never judged or condemned
anyone for wanting to put their money into a reward fund. And no one else but
you seems upset about this.
Again, have you asked Erma what she wants done? What would JD have done? I
think those are interesting questions.
>You have the audacity to tell someone you don't know where their money would
>be
>better spent? According to whose standards and values?
I said it was my opinion. If you disagree, you are certainly welcome to say so.
But to compare you anger at my honest statement versus a dishonest action such
as a theft is beyond comparison. Again, it says more about your values and
standards than mine. I think I'll stick with mine. Your's are a little out of
synch.
>From who? My life is incredibly wonderful. I spent the last two and a half
>weeks having a great time. I visited a friend in Arizona, played a few
>rounds
>of golf; spent several days in Mesquite, Nevada with a woman I love dearly.
>What "lot" are you under the impression that I'm stressed with that would
>cause
>me to offer a reward to filter out a sick fanatic?
I won't mention names recieved via email. But we have had posts here as well
that you were going through a bad time concerning JD. Heck, you even stated so.
>> I don't care if you wipe
>>your ass with 20's and 50's. It's your money. Do what you want.
>
>You care very much or you wouldn't keep trying to impress your point of
>putting
>the money to better use by having it go to a charity. I have too much
>respect
>for the past presidents who have their faces on the currency than to wipe my
>ass with them. 'll save my ass wiping for the printed out email you sent me.
The printed out email I sent you was a post I made here. Again, it is you is
very angry. Again, it is you who is upset that I thought the money was better
spent elsewhere. Hey, Jimmy, it's your cash. Do what you want with it. I'm only
responding to your posts here! I've started no campaign against you or anyone
else who wants to donate cash to a reward fund. I have no desire to
joust/fight/mudfight with you. I haven't started one, nor do I intend to lower
myself to your apparent standards and values. I have better things to get
"pissed off".
>>As as for the WTC tragedy, what the hell does that have to do with my talk
>>about charity?
>
>You must be joking. Please tell me you're not really this stupid or that you
>have your head so far up your ass that you aren't aware of the numerous
>charitable functions that have taken place over the past month to raise money
>for victim's families, the NYFD and NYPD, the Red Cross, etc.
Tsk, tsk. The language, Jimmy. As for my joking, no, I suggest you reread your
post. The language was fuzzy and didn't make sense. Perhaps between your
thoughts and your fingers it came out kind of funny. As for the charities and
functions that have taken place, yes, I am aware of them. I've participated in
several of them. I just didn't have a desire to tell the world of my charitable
givings. It's no one else's business, right?
>> here's the "nitty-gritty"
>>deal: it's an open forum, debate is allowed, it's unmoderated.
>
>Then, pal, debate all you want with whoever you want about how I spend my
>money. Don't hold any high hopes for me to change my habits just because you
>don't like where my money goes or for what reasons I choose to spend it.
You really should reread my posts, Jimmy. I've debated with no one about your
charitable givings. You brought that up, not me. I mentioned NO ONE by name
when I suggested that the reward fund was an idea in the right place, but money
spent better elsewhere. I stated it was my opinion. Obviously, you are way too
sensitive to other people's opinions. You fled from here the last time because
of it. You couldn't have been that much fun to have along on fishing trips
waiting for JD to get that one bite after you and your pals had had several.
Gawd help them if they had opinions contrary to yours.
And again, read carefully before pasting and posting, Jimmy. You can do
whatever you want with your money. Give it to criminal elements, give it to
widows and orphans. Heck, you can roll it and smoke it in memory of JD for all
I care. I just suggest you get over yourself real soon. Cause you must really
think I care. I don't.
Have a spiffy day.
Joe Keenan
>Gee, Jim. This is sounding all too familiar. Way back when, when *I* said I
>thought you were coming across as "a bit arrogant", I was lambasted by many
>and
>accused of being one of the fanatical fans you speak of and of being jealous
>because you knew JD and I didn't. Guess what? There ARE those of us out
>here
>who admired JD and his music who don't need or want to be on anyone's special
>"list" and wonder why WE are accused of being "jealous".
Gloria, I see you remember the last time Jimmy tried to impose his view of JD
fanaticism here. His view is almost fanatical as well. Why would I be jealous
of not bothering to ask him to join an email list of JD stories. If I had care
or wanted to, I would have asked. Besides, he ended that email list because he
became paranoid that people were passing on his emails. Welcome to the wacky
world of the internet!
>I'm curious about your fixation on fanatical fans. You sometimes appeard
>tell
>you that "it comes with the territory". I, personally, find these people
>hard
>to understand but try to sympathize with them. Perhaps they don't have much
>of
>a life and clinging to JD and his memory gives them some sort of comfort. Who
>am I to judge their behavior although I find it strange.
Jimmy felt I was "judging" him because of how he wants to spend his money.
Sheesh, far from it. But he has no problem immediately judging those he feels
are out to get him or disagree with him or may pass on his valued emails and
pictures. I think whoever stole the cloth is a loser. I guess I'm judging. But
I'm sure not going to get all worked up about it and throw money to the wind
and then pillory anyone who disagees with my opinion. Especially when the other
posts and opinions are well-meaning and positive. I feel Jimmy's posts of the
last few days say far more about him than it does about the fans of JD. The
same fans he has lambasted here and elsewhere.
How big do they make hats in Aspen anyway? Cause there must be some really
large heads there.
EAA139014
>Gloria, I see you remember the last time Jimmy tried to impose his view of JD
>fanaticism here.
I'll remind anyone who doesn't remember. It was about the guy who never met
JD, but wanted the chance to meet anyone in his family so he could ask them
questions about him. You bet I got upset with that. No one has the right to
impose themselves in the face of the family to ask about what JD was like.
>Why would I be jealous
>of not bothering to ask him to join an email list of JD stories.
You misread my words. I didn't say you were jealous of not asking to join the
list. I'm saying you're jealous - period. You have a long history in this
group of being jealous of any male who posts his opinion here, especially if
it's not the same as yours.
EAA139014
cut off.
>From: jkeen...@aol.comnospam (Joe Keenan)
>he ended that email list because he
>became paranoid that people were passing on his emails
It wasn't paranoia. It was fact that my emails were passed on.
Jim
KJ
I think this offer is great and honorable.
I think it's a shame (and yes sad) that someone would feel the need to steal
something that means so much to others. A selfish act for personal
gratification. I have no doubt in my mind that there are "fans" who would
feel the need to have something that touched John's body, just as there are
those fans who feel the need to step on the same ground in Starwood and
Wood's Lake that John walked on. I really do think it's a form of sickness,
but still whatever the cause of the action, the actions themselves should
not be condoned.
As for Joe and his ceaseless, argumentive posts, he's the type of fanatic
that will try for hours to convince a fish it's a goat and will not give up.
He will continue to belittle the fish and tell it it's stupid because it
won't see his point of view that it's really a goat.
KJ
"EAA139014" <eaa1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011029110519...@mb-fy.aol.com...
EAA139014
>I am very familar with the email list. Very familar.
I realize that now, since I also know that you managed to get on the list under
another name. Why? Too ashamed to ask yourself to hear the stories? A lot of
people already know that you like to post as other people under different
names, just as you did on Rory's website when you wrote the exact same words to
me there a month or more ago. You've got a real problem with other men, Joe.
Especially ones that gain a little bit of attention.
>Jealousy of what? Your stories about JD?
I answered that. Jealousy of any other male counterpart who happens to post
here. That's your history here as many have already advised me. Do you need a
list of the names to be reminded of the men you've been jealous of over the
last few years?
>You
>show a certain naivete about the internet.
Yes, I do. That's because I wasn't familiar with fan groups and how they
operate and think when it comes to the star they idolize. It didn't take me
long to learn. I don't spend days, weeks, months or years here, like some of
you do. The internet and fan groups of certain stars isn't a way of life for
me.
>Where has the negativity come
>from and from whom?
I'd say it came from you by criticizing the people who offered rewards to help
with the situation with the peace cloth in the first place. No one else seemed
to have a problem with it.
>As for your tales about JD, you never did pass on the R and X rated versions
>of
>the fishing story about the college girls and JD.
Nope. I never did. 99% of the list wanted the X version, and it had nothing
to do with fishing. It had to do with the Condundrum Hot Springs. But by then
I was finally understanding that fans don't want to know the truth as it was.
They only want to know the truth about a star as the way they've imagined that
star to be.
>Again, have you asked Erma what she wants done? What would JD have done? I
>think those are interesting questions.
The peace cloth board members don't even want Erma made aware of the theft, and
I'd tell you what JD would have done, but you'd question my answer on that one,
too, so why bother?
>we have had posts here as well
>that you were going through a bad time concerning JD. Heck, you even stated
>so.
Going through a bad time because I miss a friend of mine who died? Are you
going to try to rag me on that one and tell me I'm not allowed that emotion?
Go for it. While you're at it, tell everyone else who misses JD that they're
"going through a bad time" as if it's something they should be ashamed of.
>You couldn't have been that much fun to have along on fishing trips
>waiting for JD to get that one bite after you and your pals had had several.
>Gawd help them if they had opinions contrary to yours.
Another one of your assinine assumptions that you know what JD was like off the
stage and when he was with friends. I've said it before and I'll say it again
- if you don't like my opinions or attitude, you wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes
in a debate with JD.
>Cause you must really
>think I care. I don't.
Of course you do. It's evident to everyone just exactly how much you care
about trying to be the top dog here with this group. The problem is, no one
else cares, Joe, and that's what has you upset to the point that you have to go
at this like a dog with a bone that won't let go. Nobody here cares if you're
on top or not. From the emails I've received, they don't even read your posts
since they have you blocked and only see the clips I've highlighted.
You can try to insult me all you like to make you appear the bigger man here.
This is your domain and not mine, so it doesn't matter to me how big you puff
up your chest. But what does matter to you, like it or not, is that there's
still a $5,000 reward for the information leading to the arrest of the fanatic
who took a piece of cloth that didn't belong to them.
Jim
EAA139014
>I think this offer is great and honorable.
Thanks, KJ. I know that many admirers of John's understand the reason behind
this. I also know that many of you don't like it when I use the term "fan",
which is why I've clarified the difference between an admirer and a fanatic.
I've had the opportunity to get to know quite a few very nice people through
this group who I categorize as John's admirers. I've also seen the levels of
fanaticism here, not only about John himself, but about other matters as well.
>As for Joe and his ceaseless, argumentive posts, he's the type of fanatic
>that will try for hours to convince a fish it's a goat and will not give up.
>He will continue to belittle the fish and tell it it's stupid because it
>won't see his point of view that it's really a goat.
I know, and I've been filled in by many on his history here, his habits and
annoyances, and how much need he has to belittle and have the last word.
There's truth to the words that the more you let someone speak, the deeper they
sink themselves, and unfortunately, Joe will be the last one to realize what he
does to himself by saying so much. He thinks he's rattling me, but what he
doesn't know is that he's making my day because he's bringing back some great
memories for me in how John would have dealt with him, and that makes me smile
a very huge grin.
Jimmy
KJ
KJ
"EAA139014" <eaa1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011029230335...@mb-fs.aol.com...
Luvanotter
ng" and ruining it for everyone else because he wouldn't come here anymore to
share his stories of JD. From reading his posts, I'd venture a guess that he's
got a mind of his own and is strong in his convictions. I don't think *any*
person here can be held responsible for his leaving. Besides, he's obviously
brave enough to come back. We're pretty harmless for the most part. But then,
there are those fanatics....present company excluded. :O)
Just MHO, Gloria
EAA139014
>I, and many others, was accused of "running EAA off the
>ng" and ruining it for everyone else because he wouldn't come here anymore to
>share his stories of JD.
Okay, Gloria, I'll give in and respond to you, since you so blatantly want to
make yourself a part of this discussion about me.
I never posted a story here about JD. In fact, you were the one who made the
suggestion that I tossed out crumbs to you and others and that people had to
beg me to get on the list to read a story. You weren't interested, remember?
No one ran me off, so you were wrongfully accused of having that power over me.
I left because I didn't like the majority of the element that posted their
opinions here. I preferred the ones who emailed me privately who told me they
don't post here because of the opinions of the element that predominantly
resides here everyday.
>From reading his posts, I'd venture a guess that he's
>got a mind of his own and is strong in his convictions.
A very accurate observation on your part.
>We're pretty harmless for the most part. But then,
>there are those fanatics....present company excluded. :O)
Don't be too quick to exclude yourself. You have your own brand of fanaticism
and it has nothing to do with JD. You like to twist words written to others as
being directed at you, but that's your choice. You like to jump into a
discussion where you think you have the support of a couple of people and you
feel safe enough that not many people will post to tell you what they really
think of you. I won't apologize for how you interpret anything I write, but
since you want to invoke me into a discussion and try your best to get to me,
let's start with two questions from me to you. What's your stand on wearing
fur coats and what do you think of the song, "You Say That The Battle Is Over".
In case you aren't familiar with that particular song, it was recorded by John
Denver. He's the man whose newsgroup you belong to, even though you aren't
interested in knowing anything about him personally. So let's talk about his
music.
Jim
Claudia Levesque
>
> I answered that. Jealousy of any other male counterpart who happens to post
> here. That's your history here as many have already advised me. Do you need a
> list of the names to be reminded of the men you've been jealous of over the
> last few years?
I'm getting kind of lost here... but I don't remember Joe ever being jealous of
anyone, male or female... there would be no need for that.
Claudia 'Hiway'
Laura
>of
>anyone, male or female... there would be no need for that.
>
Me too, I'm lost. My guess would be that
someone is telling stories that are extremely one sided.....extremely.
That being said.. LIGHTEN UP FOLKS..
and here's a way to do just that.
Visit
WWW.ENGRISH.COM
My sides hurt, I've been laughing so hard.
These are all REAL Japanese attempts at
English advertising..
Start with "From You" for some good laughs, then browse thru the pics on other
pages.
Chip and I have been laughing so hard this evening!!
Laura
KJ
Just think of anyone Joe has had one of his "spirited" discussions with. 10
to 1 it is a man who Joe felt threatened by. The #1 reason I have Joe's
posts blocked.
I used to think he was an alright kind of guy, but the past year or so has
shown his true colors.
KJ
"Laura" <chipan...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20011030022558...@mb-bg.aol.com...
David Ladewig
> Thanks, KJ. I know that many admirers of John's understand the reason
behind
> this. I also know that many of you don't like it when I use the term
"fan",
> which is why I've clarified the difference between an admirer and a
fanatic.
> I've had the opportunity to get to know quite a few very nice people
through
> this group who I categorize as John's admirers. I've also seen the levels
of
> fanaticism here, not only about John himself, but about other matters as
well.
>
> Jimmy
Jimmy, are you a singer who's last name starts with the letter I? If you
are, I like #1.5
EAA139014
>Charles, Greg and David spring immediately to mind......
Those names were told to me along with Sam (who had money and Joe doesn't like
people with too much money) and George (who had fans and Joe didn't like that
fact).
>Just think of anyone Joe has had one of his "spirited" discussions with. 10
>to 1 it is a man who Joe felt threatened by.
Which is the same thing people have written to me privately regarding Joe's
history with this group, and if it's anyone who doesn't side with Joe's
opinion, then the battle is on and that's all Joe is looking for - a battle,
because he believes he can put anyone to shame with words, even when it comes
down to using foul language and resorting to calling them names once he see's
he's not as superior as he'd like to think. I'm told this by his friends, who
all say he'sbeen very loyal to them, which is admirable. I'm told to let this
die because no matter how much Joe posts, I'm the one who comes off as being
hostile because this isn't my group. I'm also told that although Joe is their
friend, he's way off base on this one, but you won't see that written here by
his friends. They want me to stop posting because, as you said earlier, even
though it's a fish, in Joe's eyes it's a goat and if you don't agree with that,
you become the troll with the anger issues.
>The #1 reason I have Joe's
>posts blocked.
As do many of the people who have written to me, KJ. But it's Joe's domain and
that's the way things are. So I hereby declare Joe is still top dog, will
always be top dog, will never be threatened of that position being taken away
from him because anyone who disagrees with him will be told privately to give
it up because he's a dog with a bone and won't let go (even if they do know
he's wrong).
For the people who emailed me welcoming me back and were glad to see me
posting, even if it is under these circumstances, I have nothing to share about
JD publicly here, or privately since I was naive enough to trust a few people
with my emails and got burned more than once. But thanks for the thoughts you
sent. If you want your newsgroup back to whatever it once was, then you'll
have to make it that way yourself, talk about what you want to talk about and
block the people who you feel have no reason for being here other than looking
for a fight.
Jim
Joe Keenan
>Don't be too quick to exclude yourself. You have your own brand of fanaticism
>and it has nothing to do with JD. You like to twist words written to others
>as
>being directed at you, but that's your choice. You like to jump into a
>discussion where you think you have the support of a couple of people and you
>feel safe enough that not many people will post to tell you what they really
>think of you. I won't apologize for how you interpret anything I write, but
>since you want to invoke me into a discussion and try your best to get to me,
>let's start with two questions from me to you. What's your stand on wearing
>fur coats and what do you think of the song, "You Say That The Battle Is
>Over".
> In case you aren't familiar with that particular song, it was recorded by
>John
>Denver. He's the man whose newsgroup you belong to, even though you aren't
>interested in knowing anything about him personally. So let's talk about his
>music.
Uh, Mr. Jimmy. Mr. Negativity. This newsgroup does not belong to John Denver
nor does anyone "belong" to it. Again, for the newbie to the internet. This is
alt.FAN.john-denver. This is a Usenet site for JD's fans. And it is an open
forum. No one belongs here, but everyone is welcome here.
Joe Keenan
>
>>he ended that email list because he
>>became paranoid that people were passing on his emails
>
>It wasn't paranoia. It was fact that my emails were passed on.
And zingers they were. You never did pass on that X-rated story about JD and
the college girls. Come on, Jimmy. What's holding you back? You had a group of
about 30 women waiting breathlessly for every post. Wha' happened?
EAA139014
>And zingers they were. You never did pass on that X-rated story about JD and
>the college girls. Come on, Jimmy. What's holding you back? You had a group
>of
>about 30 women waiting breathlessly for every post. Wha' happened?
Take your own advice, Joe, and re-read my posts. I already answered that. And
it was 28 women and one disguised and embarrassed male, not 30 women.
EAA139014
>This is
>alt.FAN.john-denver. This is a Usenet site for JD's fans.
Be careful there, Joe. Most people here don't like that term and they don't
like being called a "fan". You might lose your small amount of open support if
you refer to them as that or as this group being FAN oriented.
Joe Keenan
>You bet I got upset with that. No one has the right to
>impose themselves in the face of the family to ask about what JD was like.
Why not? If someone politely walks up to Erma or Ron and says I loved JD's
music/message/goals/dreams/visions/butt, and politely asks a question about JD,
who are you to judge? Erma or Ron or Mr. Jimmy shouldn't attend public
functions honoring JD if they don't want fans asking silly questions. Should
someone pound on their door at night? No. Should someone bother them while they
are eating in a diner? No. At a public function? They better get used to that.
And I do remember the post that asked the question here. It was very innocuous.
You overreacted. You were too sensitive. Just as you were when I posted that I
thought reward money for so minor a crime (is anyone really going to bother
investigating it with any vigor?) was misspent. Chill, baby, chill.
>>Why would I be jealous
>>of not bothering to ask him to join an email list of JD stories.
>
>You misread my words. I didn't say you were jealous of not asking to join
>the
>list. I'm saying you're jealous - period. You have a long history in this
>group of being jealous of any male who posts his opinion here, especially if
>it's not the same as yours.
Wow! You do like to twist words. Well, hombre, for someone who claims to have
never read this group, you sure are full of background generalizations. And you
are trying to make this even more personal. Again, I'll say it right here. You
have problems far more serious than "JD fanatics". You have personal problems
that you are trying to exorcize here. Why you feel I'm that method of
exorcization I've no idea. I do not remember ever picking a fight with you, nor
have I tried to make this discussion nasty. You have. And anyone who reads from
post one will see that. As for jealousy of other males, what the hell? Dude.
Jimmy, ol'boy. This newsgroup I dare say is 95% women. Maybe even more. And the
only men who I've had a problem with here are David and Greg. And they with me.
I don't see jealousy being a part of that. But what I do see in you is a man
who is looking for a fight for reasons unknown who is coming to the battle
unarmed. And full of gross misgeneralizations. About myself. About JD fans. If
you are truly an example of JD's friends, I'd hate to see how his enemies
behave.
Joe Keenan
>I realize that now, since I also know that you managed to get on the list
>under
>another name. Why? Too ashamed to ask yourself to hear the stories? A lot
>of
>people already know that you like to post as other people under different
>names, just as you did on Rory's website when you wrote the exact same words
>to
>me there a month or more ago. You've got a real problem with other men, Joe.
>
>Especially ones that gain a little bit of attention.
I've never posted to Rory's website. Ever. Your statement is a bold and
outright lie. Now you are really starting to twist things.
And again, what is this problem with other men that you allude to? Because I've
jousted with two here? Puh-leeze. Grow up and get real, Jimmy.
>>Jealousy of what? Your stories about JD?
>
>I answered that. Jealousy of any other male counterpart who happens to post
>here. That's your history here as many have already advised me. Do you need
>a
>list of the names to be reminded of the men you've been jealous of over the
>last few years?
I think I've got it. I'm not jealous of other males here. There are hardly any
here anyway. Capt. Ted, David, Greg (and his many names), Dave "this old
guitar" who left because of the silliness (we miss him).
It's you who are jealous. It's you who doesn't care for opinions from other
males. I never had a problem with you here, Jimmy. Go back and read the posts
when you first came here and this posts as well. You are the one it has made it
personal. You are the one who doesn't like anyone suggesting anything contrary
to your grandeous posts. YOU are the one who is jealous. Your posts smack of
it. You could have been civil and said that how you spend your money is your
business and then given a civil response to continue the dialogue. Instead, you
said that I had almost had pissed you off as much as the thief had. This smacks
of sickness, Jimmy.
>>You
>>show a certain naivete about the internet.
>
>Yes, I do. That's because I wasn't familiar with fan groups and how they
>operate and think when it comes to the star they idolize. It didn't take me
>long to learn. I don't spend days, weeks, months or years here, like some of
>you do. The internet and fan groups of certain stars isn't a way of life for
>me.
>
Uh. You seem to be ready to make general statements about me. Must be that
second hand info you are getting if you haven't been here long enough. As for
idolization of JD, there is only a small handful who are like that. The rest of
us are here because JD was a common thread, but he is rarely the issue here
anymore. He is dead. It's hard to keep regurgitating the same threads so we've
moved on.
>>Where has the negativity come
>>from and from whom?
>
>I'd say it came from you by criticizing the people who offered rewards to
>help
>with the situation with the peace cloth in the first place. No one else
>seemed
>to have a problem with it.
I didn't criticize anyone, Jimmy. I posted that I thought the money could be
spent better elsewhere. Hardly personal at that. As for no one else having a
problem with it, I was the first to post and daresay you were ready to cut
throats after that. You think anyone else will jump in at this point and "piss
off" a personal friend of JD who might toss them tidbits in the future? You
could have been far more civil as my post was very civil and in no way was I
personally criticizing anyone. Instead, you blew your cork like you have
before. ANGER MANAGEMENT. Give it a try.
>Nope. I never did. 99% of the list wanted the X version, and it had nothing
>to do with fishing. It had to do with the Condundrum Hot Springs. But by
>then
>I was finally understanding that fans don't want to know the truth as it was.
>
>They only want to know the truth about a star as the way they've imagined
>that
>star to be.
That's funny. You sent them emails detailing your private moments with JD and
they were getting too personal (x-rated). Speaks volumes about your ego, not
the fans. As for your understanding, I dare say I wouldn't want to try to
figure out your mind, but if you email stories to people who YOU DON'T KNOW, it
says more about you than them.
>The peace cloth board members don't even want Erma made aware of the theft,
>and
>I'd tell you what JD would have done, but you'd question my answer on that
>one,
>too, so why bother?
Oh, I guess she doesn't read the paper or have contact with any of the outside
world? Recluse? And what do you think JD would have done? Oh, I'd "question my
answer on that one too"? Again, this speaks volumes about you, not me, Jimmy.
Volumes.
>Going through a bad time because I miss a friend of mine who died? Are you
>going to try to rag me on that one and tell me I'm not allowed that emotion?
>Go for it. While you're at it, tell everyone else who misses JD that they're
>"going through a bad time" as if it's something they should be ashamed of.
If they come in here and make gross generalizations, you bet. We all have bad
times in our lives, Jimmy. We've lost loved ones and friends. It's no excuse to
go off on a group of people you don't know and still don't know. And you never
did offer anything near an explanation let alone apology. It was offered by an
acquaitance of yours. Your manners are boorish. Your posts speak volumes about
your hyper-sensitivity and ego. Keep it up.
>Another one of your assinine assumptions that you know what JD was like off
>the
>stage and when he was with friends. I've said it before and I'll say it
>again
>- if you don't like my opinions or attitude, you wouldn't have lasted 5
>minutes
>in a debate with JD.
That's funny. Maybe you haven't been here long enough. I love a good arguement.
Unfortunately, with you it could have been a good discussion about rewards.
Instead you have dragged this down to a level that I am always accused of . I
tried to keep this above ground, but you have dragged it down into the mud,
Jimmy. But go ahead. What little credibility you had you are slowly destroying.
People will now be afraid to join in today or later when it comes to you for
fear of being labeled fanatic or being told by them you were "pissed off".
As for debate with JD, I'd hold my own. It's a shame it will never happen now
that he has passed away. Although it was never a goal or dream of mine to meet
him. I saw him in concert twice. That was enough.
>>Cause you must really
>>think I care. I don't.
>
>Of course you do. It's evident to everyone just exactly how much you care
>about trying to be the top dog here with this group. The problem is, no one
>else cares, Joe, and that's what has you upset to the point that you have to
>go
>at this like a dog with a bone that won't let go. Nobody here cares if
>you're
>on top or not. From the emails I've received, they don't even read your
>posts
>since they have you blocked and only see the clips I've highlighted.
That's funny! So you are keeping the discussion by cutting and pasting! Way to
go, dude. As for top dog. Arf. You started this and you continue this. You are
trying to make this personal, not I. You make general statements about myself
and others in the past without even knowing us. And it sounds like these
"emails" you are receiving is second hand info being fed to you. I love it.
You've been setup by others to try to "take me down". And you've become their
attack dog. Savior complex, Jimmy? Let me know when reality hits you and you
realize that you've made an ass of yourself without my help.
>You can try to insult me all you like to make you appear the bigger man here.
>
>This is your domain and not mine, so it doesn't matter to me how big you puff
>up your chest. But what does matter to you, like it or not, is that there's
>still a $5,000 reward for the information leading to the arrest of the
>fanatic
>who took a piece of cloth that didn't belong to them.
I never tried to insult you, Jimmy. And the puffing of chests and the talk
about men in the ng has all come from you. You've huffed and you've puffed but
you can't blow the house in. I don't know what your problem is. You accuse me
of not being able to handle other men's opinions, but it would seem that the
man who blew his cork about another man's opinions and who then made an ass of
himself trying to prove it was YOU, Jimmy. You have been used and setup. You
are your own worst enemy. Not I. I'm not even your enemy, but apparently you
think so. Sad really. I don't know what your problem with other men is, but
again, maybe you should just take time to think, reread the posts from post one
of this thread, and maybe you will come to the realization that you need to go
back to sending emails of erotic JD stories to your group of breathlessly
awaiting JD fanatics.
Joe.
Joe Keenan
Joe Keenan
>>that will try for hours to convince a fish it's a goat and will not give up.
>>He will continue to belittle the fish and tell it it's stupid because it
>>won't see his point of view that it's really a goat.
Stupid analogy. Let's try this again. I posted very nicely. In fact, I've tried
to post very nice since last month. I made a public statement here and included
Greg in it in case anyone has short-term memory loss. I felt that the 9-11
tragedy was a wake-up call to me and the rest of us. But it seems Jimmy wants
to go pre 9-11 and be the attack dog of a few people who don't care for me. I
wonder how much Jimmy loves being used.
So as I was saying, let's try this again. I thought the money would be better
spent elsewhere. That was all I said. But Jimmy blew up and said I pissed him
off almost as much as the thief who took the cloth. Of the three of us, Jimmy,
the thief and I, who comes out smelling like roses? Of course, the thief! The
thief is nameless and faceless. I had no axe to grind with anyone. Jimmy, you
did. And your post, highlighted below, proves it. This is all about you trying
to one-up me. How funny and how sad. You have denigrated this to that level
already. What a shame. We could have talked about charity, money, rewards with
some insight and possibly valueable advice, but instead you came in here guns
ablazin'. Silly. Really is.
Diamondsnstones
Joe I must go to two doctors and have not got the time to answer this as i
would wish but I am disturbed by your generalizations and attacks on a person
you know so little aboutl, This is wrong. You cannot sit on you rear in front
of a computer and tell people that if they are an example of a friend of Jd's
then you would hate to see his enemies. Jimmy has not given you enough
personal knowledge to give you the righ to say these things. This is an unfair
battle. I did not know that the peace cloth box was found but I am glad that
it was. "At least Jim pushed people to hunt for these things. Somehow I feel
that the amount of money is what is disturbing you and I am sorry about that.
But to go to war over an offer made in good faith is repugnant to me. More
later. Sue
Joe Keenan
>>From: "KJ"
>
>>Charles, Greg and David spring immediately to mind......
>
How many guys even post here? What's next, I'm against certain religions or
hair color and you'll post three names to prove it. Good God.
>Those names were told to me along with Sam (who had money and Joe doesn't
>like
>people with too much money) and George (who had fans and Joe didn't like that
>fact).
That's funny. I don't like people with money. Hey, Gloria, do I have a problem
with your cash flow? As for George, who is no longer here because of a woman
not a man, perhaps you, Jimmy, need to get your info from George and not a few
JD regulars with an ax to grind.The only toes being chopped off here are yours.
>Which is the same thing people have written to me privately regarding Joe's
>history with this group, and if it's anyone who doesn't side with Joe's
>opinion, then the battle is on and that's all Joe is looking for - a battle,
>because he believes he can put anyone to shame with words, even when it comes
>down to using foul language and resorting to calling them names once he see's
>he's not as superior as he'd like to think. I'm told this by his friends,
>who
>all say he'sbeen very loyal to them, which is admirable. I'm told to let
>this
>die because no matter how much Joe posts, I'm the one who comes off as being
>hostile because this isn't my group. I'm also told that although Joe is
>their
>friend, he's way off base on this one, but you won't see that written here by
>his friends. They want me to stop posting because, as you said earlier, even
>though it's a fish, in Joe's eyes it's a goat and if you don't agree with
>that,
>you become the troll with the anger issues.
Gotta love it. Claim "my friends" are emailing you telling you to let it go.
Why not name names, Jimmy. They are right. You are coming across as very
hostile. Maybe you ought to listen. If you wanted to pick a fight with me, you
could have found something more sounder than this.
>>The #1 reason I have Joe's
>>posts blocked.
>
>As do many of the people who have written to me, KJ. But it's Joe's domain
>and
>that's the way things are. So I hereby declare Joe is still top dog, will
>always be top dog, will never be threatened of that position being taken away
>from him because anyone who disagrees with him will be told privately to give
>it up because he's a dog with a bone and won't let go (even if they do know
>he's wrong).
Anyone who feels I am wrong is free to email me and to talk about it. I don't
pick fights for the sake of hurting people, Jimmy. You did. Think about it. As
for KJ, I don't know what her problem with me is because it was nothing between
us that I know of. But if she feels I am not worthy to read or to respond to
but only through you, it speaks about her more than it does about me.
>For the people who emailed me welcoming me back and were glad to see me
>posting, even if it is under these circumstances, I have nothing to share
>about
>JD publicly here, or privately since I was naive enough to trust a few people
>with my emails and got burned more than once. But thanks for the thoughts
>you
>sent. If you want your newsgroup back to whatever it once was, then you'll
>have to make it that way yourself, talk about what you want to talk about and
>block the people who you feel have no reason for being here other than
>looking
>for a fight.
Then they would have to block you. That's the truth. In the last few months,
I've talked about many things here. Nothing was a fight or an argrument. Look
and read for yourself. For those too lazy to read or who have already made up
their minds or won't read this because they claim I'm blocked, then I'm sorry
that the dialogue never got back to the civil one it was before someone got
"pissed off".
Joe Keenan
>like being called a "fan". You might lose your small amount of open support
>if
>you refer to them as that or as this group being FAN oriented.
>
It's the title of the group, Jimmy. Are you now going to change that as well??
Joe Keenan
>
>Take your own advice, Joe, and re-read my posts. I already answered that.
>And
>it was 28 women and one disguised and embarrassed male, not 30 women.
>
Wow, good guess on my part. Care to post what name I was apparently using,
Jimmy? Or are you afraid to make a mistake and "piss off" that person?
Joe Keenan
>Joe I must go to two doctors and have not got the time to answer this as i
>would wish but I am disturbed by your generalizations and attacks on a person
>you know so little aboutl,
Sue, perhaps you need to read the posts from the beginning. Jimmy made this
personal, not I. I tried to explain my original post. It was very sincere and
honest. I won't say it again because I sound like a record. Jimmy equated his
anger towards me for that post as being on par with his anger with the thief.
Think about that one before you claim I'm making general statements about him.
He knows as much about me as I know about him. It's that simple.
>This is wrong. You cannot sit on you rear in front
>of a computer and tell people that if they are an example of a friend of Jd's
>then you would hate to see his enemies. Jimmy has not given you enough
>personal knowledge to give you the righ to say these things.
True. He can claim to be a friend of JD til he his blue in the face. I'm told
he is. He should have acted like it here.
>Somehow I feel
>that the amount of money is what is disturbing you and I am sorry about that.
>
>But to go to war over an offer made in good faith is repugnant to me.
No, what is repugnant is to make a general statement like you just did. You are
now judging. No war was started over this money. I just said it could be spent
better elsewhere. I NEVER SAID IT WAS JIMMY'S MONEY! Read, read, read. There
were offers of $50 as well. The amount had nothing to do with it. What is this,
generalization school?
David Ladewig
"Joe Keenan" <jkeen...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20011030101035...@mb-de.aol.com...
> Oh, David gets the nitty-gritty of it all.
>
I think you lost me on that one. Please explain.
David