MAJORITY WANTS CLINTON TO RESIGN - ABC/WASHINGTON POST POLL
Dr. Jai Maharaj
By Andrea Shalal-Esa
Reuters
December 15, 1998
Washington (Reuters) - Most Americans oppose the impeachment of
President Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky affair, but 58 percent
feel he should resign anyway if the House of Representatives votes
for a trial in the Senate.
A new ABC News/Washington Post poll released late Monday showed
that 61 percent of the 1,004 adults surveyed did not want their
representative in Congress to vote for impeachment, compared to 38
percent who did.
But if the White House loses the impeachment vote -- only the
second one in history on presidential articles of impeachment -- a
sizeable majority thinks Clinton should quit rather than face a
months-long trial in the Senate.
A separate CBS News/New York Times poll, also released late Monday,
showed that 64 percent of Americans oppose impeachment, and 50
percent believe a last-minute compromise to censure or fine Clinton
will be worked out to avert a Senate trial.
A nervous White House Monday tried to turn up public pressure on
House leaders to allow a vote on censure as more Republicans said
they would vote to impeach him.
Clinton, in the Gaza Strip to meet with Palestinian President
Yasser Arafat, told reporters Monday his impeachment was not in the
public interest and he would make any ''reasonable compromise'' to
end the crisis before Thursday's historic vote in the House of
Representatives.
Vice President Al Gore said Republican leaders who have blocked a
vote on censuring Clinton as an alternative to impeachment were
defying the will of the public, which he said does not want Clinton
impeached.
The Washington Post also called for censure in an editorial
Tuesday, saying that far from a meaningless act, censure would
''leave an indelible mark'' on Clinton's presidency.
``Censure minimizes the damage while expressing the necessary
condemnation,'' it wrote. ``The House leadership does a huge
disservice in blindly refusing to let it come up.''
But House Budget Committee Chairman and Republican presidential
hopeful John Kasich of Ohio told CNN's ''Crossfire'' that censure
would amount to an ``easy escape route'' for Clinton and he did not
view it as an option.
Gore underscored Clinton's pledge at the start of his Middle East
visit that he had no intention of resigning. ``That's not going to
happen,'' he said.
The ABC/Washington Post poll showed that 59 percent of those polled
favored censure, and 54 percent said they backed some sort of fine
against the president.
The ABC/Post poll had a three-percentage point error margin, while
the CBS/New York Times poll had a margin of error of plus or minus
four percentage points.
The House plans to vote Thursday on four articles of impeachment
leveled against Clinton on party-line votes by the House Judiciary
Committee, including two charges of perjury.
Leaders of several women's groups, including the National
Organization for Women and the Feminist Majority, planned a news
conference for Tuesday to explain their position on the pending
impeachment vote.
The Rev. Jesse Jackson said he will hold a ``prayer vigil'' outside
the U.S. Capitol Thursday as lawmakers inside debate the
impeachment articles.
The phones rang off the hook at the Capitol Monday as Americans
registered their opinions about the pending vote -- and the White
House's hopes of swaying moderate Republicans to oppose impeachment
began to dim.
Rep. Chris Shays, Republican of Connecticut who had rejected
impeachment, sought a meeting with Clinton to discuss the issue and
indicated he could be rethinking his position.
``If I had to vote today, I would vote against impeachment, but I
am troubled by the president's statements and his continued
inability to tell the American people the truth,'' said Shays, who
will hold a town meeting on impeachment in Connecticut Tuesday.
The White House set up a meeting for Shays Wednesday after
Clinton's return from the Middle East.
Some previously undecided Republicans said they would vote for
impeachment, including Reps. Zach Wamp of Tennessee, Frank LoBiondo
of New Jersey and Charles Bass of New Hampshire.
Bass and LoBiondo had been on White House lists as possible votes
against impeachment. Clinton still needs about a dozen more
Republican votes to avoid impeachment.
House Democrats, meanwhile, planned a procedural move to force a
floor vote on censure Thursday after House Speaker Bob Livingston
rejected a direct vote. The Republican-led House Judiciary
Committee rejected a motion for censure Saturday.
Democrats hope a censure vote could siphon support from the
impeachment drive.
Clinton has admitted giving misleading statements about his
extramarital affair with Lewinsky, but denies his evasive answers
amounted to perjury.
Some undecided moderate Republicans have said an admission by
Clinton that he lied might help him win support, but Clinton has
steadfastly refused to do so.
If any of the four articles is approved, Clinton would face a
formal trial in the Senate that would be presided over by Chief
Justice William Rehnquist.
Conviction and removal in the Senate would require a two-thirds
majority, which would be unlikely. But the White House has warned
that months of a Senate trial could cripple Clinton's presidency
and paralyze government.
``We think that will be very disruptive, time-consuming,'' White
House spokesman Joe Lockhart said in Jerusalem Monday. ''It will
lead to further partisanship rather than less partisanship, and we
don't think this is the thing we should put the country through.''
Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
educational purposes of research and open discussion.
- - - - -
Posted by: commomsense 12/15/98 00:53:43 PST
- - - - -
> To: commomsense
"Leaders of several women's groups, including the National
Organization for Women and the Feminist Majority, planned a news
conference for Tuesday to explain their position on the pending
impeachment vote. "
I am sure we are all on the edge of our seats with suspense trying
to figure out where the National Organization of Gals will come
down on this issue...not.
> From: Keith 12/15/98 00:57:44 PST
- - - - -
> To: Keith
I suggest that each NOW member prove they are women before they are
allowed to say one word. Then if allowed to speak have a panel of
real women speak.
I resent these "feminist" with all my being. They do not speak for
the majority of us. If they excuse Bill's behavoir or belittle
Paula Jones or say it was just sex. I am liable to get physical.
This woman has heard all she wants to out of these perverts.
> From: DSK (emailname) 12/15/98 01:03:18 PST
- - - - -
> To: commomsense
``We think that will be very disruptive, time-consuming,'' White
House spokesman Joe Lockhart said in Jerusalem Monday. ''It will
lead to further partisanship rather than less partisanship, and we
don't think this is the thing we should put the country through.''
Did the Constitution say anything about "time-consuming"?
Did the Constitution say anything about "further partisanship"?
> From: commomsense 12/15/98 01:06:21 PST
- - - - -
> To: commomsense
I am sorry, but I am still unclear as to which section of the constitution
provides the House of Representives with the power of censure, does someone
know which of the Representitives can point that section out to me?
> From: DaiHuy (CalcW...@yahoo.com) 12/15/98 01:19:29 PST
- - - - -
> To: commomsense
Shays says he will hold a town meeting in Connecticut today. Any
Freepers planning to attend?
> From: gerry (emailname) 12/15/98 04:18:01 PST
- - - - -
> To: commomsense
View graphic at ABC News here:
http://abcnews.go.com/media/US/images/clintonpoll_t.gif
> From: L.N. Smithee (LNS...@aol.com) 12/15/98 05:08:13 PST
- - - - -
Source of the above and more news and discussion:
http://www.freerepublic.com/
Click on the "Latest on Clinton" link at
http://www.flex.com/~jai
rem
VOTE, the MAJORITY WILL.... How DARE YOU, YOU FASCIST PIG... REFORM MY
ASS!! You FUCKING PRICK!!
The President will not resign, he will have to be impeached which
would be a travesty of this statute and undermining of the balance of
power and the Constitution... He did NOT commit a high crime against
the STATE (i.e., Treason). WAKE UP PEOPLE... the MAJORITY's will is
being trampled upon. These people are driving a stake at the heart of
our Democratic system.
The people who are behind this first peaceful COUP D'ETAT in US
history are lunatic zealots who are anti-equality, anti-democracy and
are backed by the tabacco lobby, insurance companies, and like special
interests representing minority opinion, but are willing to bend the
rules of our Democracy as it has functioned with a high degree of
stability for the past 200 years to meet their minority backed,
personal agenda against the majority's will. People should be out
protesting to preserve their rights!
Author and supporters: Why don't you move to a Fascist Dictatorship
where you belong instead of bringing this type of system to America?
Stop trying to destabilize what has been the most stable government in
history. Our role as world leader is being tarnished by creeps like
you.
The world is watching in SHOCK and DISBELIEF by how far this has gone
so far!! This insane movement has not legitimacy!
People of the US... Take action, contact Congress, contact your
friends. Moderate Republicans and Democrats alike, our opinion is
backed by the Majority opinion, the basis of Democracy! STOP this
INSANE CAMPAIGN!! Don't let this happen, don't let these far-right
wing zealots drag the most stable Democracy in the history of the
world through the mud any longer!
Rob.
Pradip Parekh
disinformation campaign. Democrats live by poll, so they will die by the
poll. Majority finally is catching up with the law of the land.
Pradip Parekh
rem wrote in message <367eeee2...@news.slip.net>...
Mr. Horrible
>
> Your mail sounds like part of AFL-CIU (whatever those initials are)
> disinformation campaign.
Anybody who doesn't even know the name - ney, the _initials_, of a group
is wholly unqualified to criticize it.
Fool.
> Democrats live by poll, so they will die by the
> poll. Majority finally is catching up with the law of the land.
You mean the current majority is about to be overturned?
Mr. H
>
> Pradip Parekh
>
> rem wrote in message +ADw-367eeee2.4789934+AEA-news.slip.net+AD4-...
> +AD4-Screw you anti-democratic BASTARDS+ACE- Overturning MY vote, the MAJORITY
> +AD4-VOTE, the MAJORITY WILL.... How DARE YOU, YOU FASCIST PIG... REFORM MY
> +AD4-ASS+ACEAIQ- You FUCKING PRICK+ACEAIQ-
> +AD4-
> +AD4-The President will not resign, he will have to be impeached which
> +AD4-would be a travesty of this statute and undermining of the balance of
> +AD4-power and the Constitution... He did NOT commit a high crime against
> +AD4-the STATE (i.e., Treason). WAKE UP PEOPLE... the MAJORITY's will is
> +AD4-being trampled upon. These people are driving a stake at the heart of
> +AD4-our Democratic system.
> +AD4-
> +AD4-The people who are behind this first peaceful COUP D'ETAT in US
> +AD4-history are lunatic zealots who are anti-equality, anti-democracy and
> +AD4-are backed by the tabacco lobby, insurance companies, and like special
> +AD4-interests representing minority opinion, but are willing to bend the
> +AD4-rules of our Democracy as it has functioned with a high degree of
> +AD4-stability for the past 200 years to meet their minority backed,
> +AD4-personal agenda against the majority's will. People should be out
> +AD4-protesting to preserve their rights+ACE-
> +AD4-
> +AD4-Author and supporters: Why don't you move to a Fascist Dictatorship
> +AD4-where you belong instead of bringing this type of system to America?
> +AD4-Stop trying to destabilize what has been the most stable government in
> +AD4-history. Our role as world leader is being tarnished by creeps like
> +AD4-you.
> +AD4-
> +AD4-The world is watching in SHOCK and DISBELIEF by how far this has gone
> +AD4-so far+ACEAIQ- This insane movement has not legitimacy+ACE-
> +AD4-
> +AD4-People of the US... Take action, contact Congress, contact your
> +AD4-friends. Moderate Republicans and Democrats alike, our opinion is
> +AD4-backed by the Majority opinion, the basis of Democracy+ACE- STOP this
> +AD4-INSANE CAMPAIGN+ACEAIQ- Don't let this happen, don't let these far-right
> +AD4-wing zealots drag the most stable Democracy in the history of the
> +AD4-world through the mud any longer+ACE-
> +AD4-
> +AD4-Rob.
> +AD4-
> +AD4-
> +AD4-
> +AD4-On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:39:02 GMT, address.below.or+AEA-web.site (Dr. Jai
> +AD4-Maharaj) wrote:
> +AD4-
> +AD4APg-MAJORITY WANTS CLINTON TO RESIGN IF IMPEACHED - POLL
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-By Andrea Shalal-Esa
> +AD4APg-Reuters
> +AD4APg-December 15, 1998
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Washington (Reuters) - Most Americans oppose the impeachment of
> +AD4APg-President Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky affair, but 58 percent
> +AD4APg-feel he should resign anyway if the House of Representatives votes
> +AD4APg-for a trial in the Senate.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-A new ABC News/Washington Post poll released late Monday showed
> +AD4APg-that 61 percent of the 1,004 adults surveyed did not want their
> +AD4APg-representative in Congress to vote for impeachment, compared to 38
> +AD4APg-percent who did.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-But if the White House loses the impeachment vote -- only the
> +AD4APg-second one in history on presidential articles of impeachment -- a
> +AD4APg-sizeable majority thinks Clinton should quit rather than face a
> +AD4APg-months-long trial in the Senate.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-A separate CBS News/New York Times poll, also released late Monday,
> +AD4APg-showed that 64 percent of Americans oppose impeachment, and 50
> +AD4APg-percent believe a last-minute compromise to censure or fine Clinton
> +AD4APg-will be worked out to avert a Senate trial.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-A nervous White House Monday tried to turn up public pressure on
> +AD4APg-House leaders to allow a vote on censure as more Republicans said
> +AD4APg-they would vote to impeach him.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Clinton, in the Gaza Strip to meet with Palestinian President
> +AD4APg-Yasser Arafat, told reporters Monday his impeachment was not in the
> +AD4APg-public interest and he would make any ''reasonable compromise'' to
> +AD4APg-end the crisis before Thursday's historic vote in the House of
> +AD4APg-Representatives.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Vice President Al Gore said Republican leaders who have blocked a
> +AD4APg-vote on censuring Clinton as an alternative to impeachment were
> +AD4APg-defying the will of the public, which he said does not want Clinton
> +AD4APg-impeached.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-The Washington Post also called for censure in an editorial
> +AD4APg-Tuesday, saying that far from a meaningless act, censure would
> +AD4APg-''leave an indelible mark'' on Clinton's presidency.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgBgAGA-Censure minimizes the damage while expressing the necessary
> +AD4APg-condemnation,'' it wrote. +AGAAYA-The House leadership does a huge
> +AD4APg-disservice in blindly refusing to let it come up.''
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-But House Budget Committee Chairman and Republican presidential
> +AD4APg-hopeful John Kasich of Ohio told CNN's ''Crossfire'' that censure
> +AD4APg-would amount to an +AGAAYA-easy escape route'' for Clinton and he did not
> +AD4APg-view it as an option.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Gore underscored Clinton's pledge at the start of his Middle East
> +AD4APg-visit that he had no intention of resigning. +AGAAYA-That's not going to
> +AD4APg-happen,'' he said.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-The ABC/Washington Post poll showed that 59 percent of those polled
> +AD4APg-favored censure, and 54 percent said they backed some sort of fine
> +AD4APg-against the president.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-The ABC/Post poll had a three-percentage point error margin, while
> +AD4APg-the CBS/New York Times poll had a margin of error of plus or minus
> +AD4APg-four percentage points.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-The House plans to vote Thursday on four articles of impeachment
> +AD4APg-leveled against Clinton on party-line votes by the House Judiciary
> +AD4APg-Committee, including two charges of perjury.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Leaders of several women's groups, including the National
> +AD4APg-Organization for Women and the Feminist Majority, planned a news
> +AD4APg-conference for Tuesday to explain their position on the pending
> +AD4APg-impeachment vote.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-The Rev. Jesse Jackson said he will hold a +AGAAYA-prayer vigil'' outside
> +AD4APg-the U.S. Capitol Thursday as lawmakers inside debate the
> +AD4APg-impeachment articles.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-The phones rang off the hook at the Capitol Monday as Americans
> +AD4APg-registered their opinions about the pending vote -- and the White
> +AD4APg-House's hopes of swaying moderate Republicans to oppose impeachment
> +AD4APg-began to dim.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Rep. Chris Shays, Republican of Connecticut who had rejected
> +AD4APg-impeachment, sought a meeting with Clinton to discuss the issue and
> +AD4APg-indicated he could be rethinking his position.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgBgAGA-If I had to vote today, I would vote against impeachment, but I
> +AD4APg-am troubled by the president's statements and his continued
> +AD4APg-inability to tell the American people the truth,'' said Shays, who
> +AD4APg-will hold a town meeting on impeachment in Connecticut Tuesday.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-The White House set up a meeting for Shays Wednesday after
> +AD4APg-Clinton's return from the Middle East.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Some previously undecided Republicans said they would vote for
> +AD4APg-impeachment, including Reps. Zach Wamp of Tennessee, Frank LoBiondo
> +AD4APg-of New Jersey and Charles Bass of New Hampshire.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Bass and LoBiondo had been on White House lists as possible votes
> +AD4APg-against impeachment. Clinton still needs about a dozen more
> +AD4APg-Republican votes to avoid impeachment.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-House Democrats, meanwhile, planned a procedural move to force a
> +AD4APg-floor vote on censure Thursday after House Speaker Bob Livingston
> +AD4APg-rejected a direct vote. The Republican-led House Judiciary
> +AD4APg-Committee rejected a motion for censure Saturday.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Democrats hope a censure vote could siphon support from the
> +AD4APg-impeachment drive.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Clinton has admitted giving misleading statements about his
> +AD4APg-extramarital affair with Lewinsky, but denies his evasive answers
> +AD4APg-amounted to perjury.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Some undecided moderate Republicans have said an admission by
> +AD4APg-Clinton that he lied might help him win support, but Clinton has
> +AD4APg-steadfastly refused to do so.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-If any of the four articles is approved, Clinton would face a
> +AD4APg-formal trial in the Senate that would be presided over by Chief
> +AD4APg-Justice William Rehnquist.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Conviction and removal in the Senate would require a two-thirds
> +AD4APg-majority, which would be unlikely. But the White House has warned
> +AD4APg-that months of a Senate trial could cripple Clinton's presidency
> +AD4APg-and paralyze government.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgBgAGA-We think that will be very disruptive, time-consuming,'' White
> +AD4APg-House spokesman Joe Lockhart said in Jerusalem Monday. ''It will
> +AD4APg-lead to further partisanship rather than less partisanship, and we
> +AD4APg-don't think this is the thing we should put the country through.''
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
> +AD4APg-educational purposes of research and open discussion.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg- - - - - -
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Posted by: commomsense 12/15/98 00:53:43 PST
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg- - - - - -
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- To: commomsense
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgAi-Leaders of several women's groups, including the National
> +AD4APg-Organization for Women and the Feminist Majority, planned a news
> +AD4APg-conference for Tuesday to explain their position on the pending
> +AD4APg-impeachment vote. +ACI-
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-I am sure we are all on the edge of our seats with suspense trying
> +AD4APg-to figure out where the National Organization of Gals will come
> +AD4APg-down on this issue...not.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- From: Keith 12/15/98 00:57:44 PST
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg- - - - - -
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- To: Keith
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-I suggest that each NOW member prove they are women before they are
> +AD4APg-allowed to say one word. Then if allowed to speak have a panel of
> +AD4APg-real women speak.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-I resent these +ACI-feminist+ACI- with all my being. They do not speak for
> +AD4APg-the majority of us. If they excuse Bill's behavoir or belittle
> +AD4APg-Paula Jones or say it was just sex. I am liable to get physical.
> +AD4APg-This woman has heard all she wants to out of these perverts.
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- From: DSK (emailname) 12/15/98 01:03:18 PST
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg- - - - - -
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- To: commomsense
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgBgAGA-We think that will be very disruptive, time-consuming,'' White
> +AD4APg-House spokesman Joe Lockhart said in Jerusalem Monday. ''It will
> +AD4APg-lead to further partisanship rather than less partisanship, and we
> +AD4APg-don't think this is the thing we should put the country through.''
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Did the Constitution say anything about +ACI-time-consuming+ACI-?
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Did the Constitution say anything about +ACI-further partisanship+ACI-?
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- From: commomsense 12/15/98 01:06:21 PST
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg- - - - - -
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- To: commomsense
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-I am sorry, but I am still unclear as to which section of the constitution
> +AD4APg-provides the House of Representives with the power of censure, does
> someone
> +AD4APg-know which of the Representitives can point that section out to me?
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- From: DaiHuy (CalcWizard+AEA-yahoo.com) 12/15/98 01:19:29 PST
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg- - - - - -
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- To: commomsense
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Shays says he will hold a town meeting in Connecticut today. Any
> +AD4APg-Freepers planning to attend?
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- From: gerry (emailname) 12/15/98 04:18:01 PST
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg- - - - - -
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- To: commomsense
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-View graphic at ABC News here:
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-http://abcnews.go.com/media/US/images/clintonpoll+AF8-t.gif
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APgA+- From: L.N. Smithee (LNSimho+AEA-aol.com) 12/15/98 05:08:13 PST
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg- - - - - -
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Source of the above and more news and discussion:
> +AD4APg-http://www.freerepublic.com/
> +AD4APg-
> +AD4APg-Click on the +ACI-Latest on Clinton+ACI- link at
> +AD4APg-http://www.flex.com/+AH4-jai
> +AD4-
Pradip Parekh
Mr. Horrible wrote in message <36781B...@nospam.org>...
>Pradip Parekh wrote:
>>
>> Your mail sounds like part of AFL-CIU (whatever those initials are)
>> disinformation campaign.
>
>Anybody who doesn't even know the name - ney, the _initials_, of a group
>is wholly unqualified to criticize it.
>
>Fool.
>
If you know who I am talking about, we need not quarrel. Well, garbage by
any other name will stink just as bad, as a famous man had once said.
>> Democrats live by poll, so they will die by the
>> poll. Majority finally is catching up with the law of the land.
>
>You mean the current majority is about to be overturned?
No, the current majority is turning over. He, he.
Look at the bright side. If Clinton resigns, he will make a mark for himself
in history like no one else has, as he so desperately wants. Who knows, when
the economy might slow down on the watch of the next chief, people might
fondly remember Clinton eventhough it is the republican Congress that
deserves the real credit for the current good economy.
Pradip Parekh
>
>Mr. H
>>
>> Pradip Parekh
>>
>> rem wrote in message <367eeee2...@news.slip.net>...
>> >Screw you anti-democratic BASTARDS! Overturning MY vote, the MAJORITY
>> >VOTE, the MAJORITY WILL.... How DARE YOU, YOU FASCIST PIG... REFORM MY
>> >ASS!! You FUCKING PRICK!!
>> >
>> >The President will not resign, he will have to be impeached which
>> >would be a travesty of this statute and undermining of the balance of
>> >power and the Constitution... He did NOT commit a high crime against
>> >the STATE (i.e., Treason). WAKE UP PEOPLE... the MAJORITY's will is
>> >being trampled upon. These people are driving a stake at the heart of
>> >our Democratic system.
>> >
>> >The people who are behind this first peaceful COUP D'ETAT in US
>> >history are lunatic zealots who are anti-equality, anti-democracy and
>> >are backed by the tabacco lobby, insurance companies, and like special
>> >interests representing minority opinion, but are willing to bend the
>> >rules of our Democracy as it has functioned with a high degree of
>> >stability for the past 200 years to meet their minority backed,
>> >personal agenda against the majority's will. People should be out
>> >protesting to preserve their rights!
>> >
>> >Author and supporters: Why don't you move to a Fascist Dictatorship
>> >where you belong instead of bringing this type of system to America?
>> >Stop trying to destabilize what has been the most stable government in
>> >history. Our role as world leader is being tarnished by creeps like
>> >you.
>> >
>> >The world is watching in SHOCK and DISBELIEF by how far this has gone
>> >so far!! This insane movement has not legitimacy!
>> >
>> >People of the US... Take action, contact Congress, contact your
>> >friends. Moderate Republicans and Democrats alike, our opinion is
>> >backed by the Majority opinion, the basis of Democracy! STOP this
>> >INSANE CAMPAIGN!! Don't let this happen, don't let these far-right
>> >wing zealots drag the most stable Democracy in the history of the
>> >world through the mud any longer!
>> >
>> >Rob.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:39:02 GMT, address....@web.site (Dr. Jai
>> >Maharaj) wrote:
>> >
>> >>MAJORITY WANTS CLINTON TO RESIGN IF IMPEACHED - POLL
>> >>
>> >>By Andrea Shalal-Esa
>> >>Reuters
>> >>December 15, 1998
>> >>
>> >>Washington (Reuters) - Most Americans oppose the impeachment of
>> >>President Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky affair, but 58 percent
>> >>feel he should resign anyway if the House of Representatives votes
>> >>for a trial in the Senate.
>> >>
>> >>A new ABC News/Washington Post poll released late Monday showed
>> >>that 61 percent of the 1,004 adults surveyed did not want their
>> >>representative in Congress to vote for impeachment, compared to 38
>> >>percent who did.
>> >>
>> >>But if the White House loses the impeachment vote -- only the
>> >>second one in history on presidential articles of impeachment -- a
>> >>sizeable majority thinks Clinton should quit rather than face a
>> >>months-long trial in the Senate.
>> >>
>> >>A separate CBS News/New York Times poll, also released late Monday,
>> >>showed that 64 percent of Americans oppose impeachment, and 50
>> >>percent believe a last-minute compromise to censure or fine Clinton
>> >>will be worked out to avert a Senate trial.
>> >>
>> >>A nervous White House Monday tried to turn up public pressure on
>> >>House leaders to allow a vote on censure as more Republicans said
>> >>they would vote to impeach him.
>> >>
>> >>Clinton, in the Gaza Strip to meet with Palestinian President
>> >>Yasser Arafat, told reporters Monday his impeachment was not in the
>> >>public interest and he would make any ''reasonable compromise'' to
>> >>end the crisis before Thursday's historic vote in the House of
>> >>Representatives.
>> >>
>> >>Vice President Al Gore said Republican leaders who have blocked a
>> >>vote on censuring Clinton as an alternative to impeachment were
>> >>defying the will of the public, which he said does not want Clinton
>> >>impeached.
>> >>
>> >>The Washington Post also called for censure in an editorial
>> >>Tuesday, saying that far from a meaningless act, censure would
>> >>''leave an indelible mark'' on Clinton's presidency.
>> >>
>> >>``Censure minimizes the damage while expressing the necessary
>> >>condemnation,'' it wrote. ``The House leadership does a huge
>> >>disservice in blindly refusing to let it come up.''
>> >>
>> >>But House Budget Committee Chairman and Republican presidential
>> >>hopeful John Kasich of Ohio told CNN's ''Crossfire'' that censure
>> >>would amount to an ``easy escape route'' for Clinton and he did not
>> >>view it as an option.
>> >>
>> >>Gore underscored Clinton's pledge at the start of his Middle East
>> >>visit that he had no intention of resigning. ``That's not going to
>> >>happen,'' he said.
>> >>
>> >>The ABC/Washington Post poll showed that 59 percent of those polled
>> >>favored censure, and 54 percent said they backed some sort of fine
>> >>against the president.
>> >>
>> >>The ABC/Post poll had a three-percentage point error margin, while
>> >>the CBS/New York Times poll had a margin of error of plus or minus
>> >>four percentage points.
>> >>
>> >>The House plans to vote Thursday on four articles of impeachment
>> >>leveled against Clinton on party-line votes by the House Judiciary
>> >>Committee, including two charges of perjury.
>> >>
>> >>Leaders of several women's groups, including the National
>> >>Organization for Women and the Feminist Majority, planned a news
>> >>conference for Tuesday to explain their position on the pending
>> >>impeachment vote.
>> >>
>> >>The Rev. Jesse Jackson said he will hold a ``prayer vigil'' outside
>> >>the U.S. Capitol Thursday as lawmakers inside debate the
>> >>impeachment articles.
>> >>
>> >>The phones rang off the hook at the Capitol Monday as Americans
>> >>registered their opinions about the pending vote -- and the White
>> >>House's hopes of swaying moderate Republicans to oppose impeachment
>> >>began to dim.
>> >>
>> >>Rep. Chris Shays, Republican of Connecticut who had rejected
>> >>impeachment, sought a meeting with Clinton to discuss the issue and
>> >>indicated he could be rethinking his position.
>> >>
>> >>``If I had to vote today, I would vote against impeachment, but I
>> >>am troubled by the president's statements and his continued
>> >>inability to tell the American people the truth,'' said Shays, who
>> >>will hold a town meeting on impeachment in Connecticut Tuesday.
>> >>
>> >>The White House set up a meeting for Shays Wednesday after
>> >>Clinton's return from the Middle East.
>> >>
>> >>Some previously undecided Republicans said they would vote for
>> >>impeachment, including Reps. Zach Wamp of Tennessee, Frank LoBiondo
>> >>of New Jersey and Charles Bass of New Hampshire.
>> >>
>> >>Bass and LoBiondo had been on White House lists as possible votes
>> >>against impeachment. Clinton still needs about a dozen more
>> >>Republican votes to avoid impeachment.
>> >>
>> >>House Democrats, meanwhile, planned a procedural move to force a
>> >>floor vote on censure Thursday after House Speaker Bob Livingston
>> >>rejected a direct vote. The Republican-led House Judiciary
>> >>Committee rejected a motion for censure Saturday.
>> >>
>> >>Democrats hope a censure vote could siphon support from the
>> >>impeachment drive.
>> >>
>> >>Clinton has admitted giving misleading statements about his
>> >>extramarital affair with Lewinsky, but denies his evasive answers
>> >>amounted to perjury.
>> >>
>> >>Some undecided moderate Republicans have said an admission by
>> >>Clinton that he lied might help him win support, but Clinton has
>> >>steadfastly refused to do so.
>> >>
>> >>If any of the four articles is approved, Clinton would face a
>> >>formal trial in the Senate that would be presided over by Chief
>> >>Justice William Rehnquist.
>> >>
>> >>Conviction and removal in the Senate would require a two-thirds
>> >>majority, which would be unlikely. But the White House has warned
>> >>that months of a Senate trial could cripple Clinton's presidency
>> >>and paralyze government.
>> >>
>> >>``We think that will be very disruptive, time-consuming,'' White
>> >>House spokesman Joe Lockhart said in Jerusalem Monday. ''It will
>> >>lead to further partisanship rather than less partisanship, and we
>> >>don't think this is the thing we should put the country through.''
>> >>
>> >>Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the
>> >>educational purposes of research and open discussion.
>> >>
>> >> - - - - -
>> >>
>> >>Posted by: commomsense 12/15/98 00:53:43 PST
>> >>
>> >> - - - - -
>> >>
>> >>> To: commomsense
>> >>
>> >>"Leaders of several women's groups, including the National
>> >>Organization for Women and the Feminist Majority, planned a news
>> >>conference for Tuesday to explain their position on the pending
>> >>impeachment vote. "
>> >>
>> >>I am sure we are all on the edge of our seats with suspense trying
>> >>to figure out where the National Organization of Gals will come
>> >>down on this issue...not.
>> >>
>> >>> From: Keith 12/15/98 00:57:44 PST
>> >>
>> >> - - - - -
>> >>
>> >>> To: Keith
>> >>
>> >>I suggest that each NOW member prove they are women before they are
>> >>allowed to say one word. Then if allowed to speak have a panel of
>> >>real women speak.
>> >>
>> >>I resent these "feminist" with all my being. They do not speak for
>> >>the majority of us. If they excuse Bill's behavoir or belittle
>> >>Paula Jones or say it was just sex. I am liable to get physical.
>> >>This woman has heard all she wants to out of these perverts.
>> >>
>> >>> From: DSK (emailname) 12/15/98 01:03:18 PST
>> >>
>> >> - - - - -
>> >>
>> >>> To: commomsense
>> >>
>> >>``We think that will be very disruptive, time-consuming,'' White
>> >>House spokesman Joe Lockhart said in Jerusalem Monday. ''It will
>> >>lead to further partisanship rather than less partisanship, and we
>> >>don't think this is the thing we should put the country through.''
>> >>
>> >>Did the Constitution say anything about "time-consuming"?
>> >>
>> >>Did the Constitution say anything about "further partisanship"?
>> >>
>> >>> From: commomsense 12/15/98 01:06:21 PST
>> >>
>> >> - - - - -
>> >>
>> >>> To: commomsense
>> >>
>> >>I am sorry, but I am still unclear as to which section of the
constitution
>> >>provides the House of Representives with the power of censure, does
>> someone
>> >>know which of the Representitives can point that section out to me?
>> >>
>> >>> From: DaiHuy (CalcW...@yahoo.com) 12/15/98 01:19:29 PST
>> >>
>> >> - - - - -
>> >>
>> >>> To: commomsense
>> >>
>> >>Shays says he will hold a town meeting in Connecticut today. Any
>> >>Freepers planning to attend?
>> >>
>> >>> From: gerry (emailname) 12/15/98 04:18:01 PST
>> >>
>> >> - - - - -
>> >>
>> >>> To: commomsense
>> >>
>> >>View graphic at ABC News here:
>> >>
>> >>http://abcnews.go.com/media/US/images/clintonpoll_t.gif
>> >>
>> >>> From: L.N. Smithee (LNS...@aol.com) 12/15/98 05:08:13 PST
>> >>
>> >> - - - - -
>> >>
>> >>Source of the above and more news and discussion:
David L. Jaroslav
>
> Screw you anti-democratic BASTARDS!
Anti-democratic, perhaps. But we do not live in a democracy. We
live in a constitutional republic, which means there are some things
the majority is not allowed to do to the minority. I, for one, am
glad I do not live in a country run by absolute majority rule.
Feel free to move to Switzerland if you feel otherwise.
> Overturning MY vote, the MAJORITY
> VOTE, the MAJORITY WILL...
The Constitution was created primarily to protect individuals
against the excesses the Framers knew democracy was capable of.
Absolute democracy is nothing more than mob rule -- that's why
we have a representative system of government, in which
representatives owe their constituents their judgment, not just
their undying loyalty, and in which those representatives owe a
higher loyalty to the Constitution. If you want to change that,
write your Congressman and suggest an amendment to the Constitution.
Otherwise, recognize that the President owes his position and
authority not just to election but also to the oath he swore, and
when that oath was violated he surrendered the legitimacy of his
office.
> How DARE YOU, YOU FASCIST PIG... REFORM MY
> ASS!! You FUCKING PRICK!!
Ad hominem attacks are the clearest demonstration of an
absence of any credible argument on your part.
> The President will not resign, he will have to be impeached which
> would be a travesty of this statute
What statute are you referring to?
> and undermining of the balance of
> power and the Constitution...
It is the President who has attempted to undermine the separation
of powers. When he decided he was not subject to the law of
perjury like the rest of us, he assumed the powers of a judge and
a legislator unto himself, something he has no right to do.
> He did NOT commit a high crime against
> the STATE (i.e., Treason).
This argument, which I've heard before, is a bizarre non sequitur
if I've ever heard one. A crime is BY DEFINITION an act against
the state., rather than a private wrong like a tort or a breach of
contract. That's why the state prosecutes crimes. The crime here
is perjury, which cuts to the very heart and integrity of the judicial
system. Moreover, the fact pattern behind the obstruction of justice
charge is highly analogous to bribery, the other crime expressly
specified by the Constitution for impeachment.
> WAKE UP PEOPLE... the MAJORITY's will is
> being trampled upon.
The popular will speaks loudest in the Constitution, which required
immense supermajorities to be ratified and amended, not in public
opinion polls.
> These people are driving a stake at the heart of
> our Democratic system.
Again, we do not live in a democracy. God help us all if we ever do.
> The people who are behind this first peaceful COUP D'ETAT in US
> history...
This is not a coup. Impeachment is just as much a legal part of our
system of government as are elections. If one could only impeach
unpopular leaders, then provision for it in the Constitution would have
been extraneous. No one should be allowed to trample on the law just
because he is popular -- that erodes everyone's right to know the law
will be applied equally. (Oh yes, that pesky Constitution again,
something in the 14th Amendment about Due Process and Equal Protection).
> Author and supporters: Why don't you move to a Fascist Dictatorship
> where you belong instead of bringing this type of system to America?
Why don't you move to a place run by referendum? YOU are the one
speaking in favor of dictatorship, for allowing the President to
determine what laws he chooses to hold himslef subject to.
> Stop trying to destabilize what has been the most stable government in
> history.
Just because impeachment might upset things for a few months is no
excuse for the President to exercise extra-constitutional powers. The
President is not a king -- he must be held accountable or your precious
stability is worth nothing.
> Our role as world leader is being tarnished by creeps like
> you.
No it isn't. This will all be over relatively soon and the
US will still be the world's only superpower.
> The world is watching in SHOCK and DISBELIEF by how far this has gone
> so far!!
That's because the rest of the world is decadent and corrupt, not
because America has problems. And I say that as someone who's travelled
widely and has immense respect for other countries and systtems of
government. Nevertheless, they're wrong.
> This insane movement has not legitimacy!
It has the one source of supreme legitimacy that exists in
this country: the Constitution of the United States.
> People of the US... Take action, contact Congress, contact your
> friends. Moderate Republicans and Democrats alike...
Funny, I consider MYSELF a moderate Republican. I guess I must
really be a fire-eating right-wing lunatic. ;-)
--
Dave J.
Mike
Dr. Jai Maharaj
[ Path: . . . rcn!master.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail
"Mr. Horrible" <m...@nospam.org> posted:
>
> Pradip Parekh wrote:
>> Your mail sounds like part of AFL-CIU (whatever those initials are)
>> disinformation campaign.
>
> Anybody who doesn't even know the name - ney, the _initials_,
> of a group is wholly unqualified to criticize it.
>
> Fool.
"Fool"? Does it not stand for "Fool in Oval Office is a Liar"?
Panhead
>
> "Fool"? Does it not stand for "Fool in Oval Office is a Liar"?
Not at all. (Otherwise, why would you be living in a country run
by the President you constantly try to ridicule, when you have
the (supposed) availability to live in places with people that
agree with you?)
Fool stands for "Fake Overly Obese Losers" Like you.(eat a
Cheese burger and die)
Where's your "Doctorate" by the way? What school did you get it
at?