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MikeC
Feb 27, 2013, 9:23:47 AM2/27/13
to
Ideas, anyone?
-------- Original Message --------
On 2/26/2013 7:34 PM, timpowers1952 wrote:
>
> Hello, people --
>
> I'm writing an introduction to a re-issue of Heinlein's pair of short
> novels, Waldo and Magic Inc., and it seems to me that Magic Inc. was
> the first story to use magic as a commonplace element in an otherwise
> realistic urban setting -- not just magic going on, that is, but magic
> used routinely by everybody, similar to electricity, and in the midst
> of ordinary modern stuff like city buses and newspapers and muggers
> and television. So there's warnings about werewolves on the news
> channel, and in the Yellow Pages you could look up private detectives
> who specialize in lifting curses, and the electric razor you buy at
> Walmart works because there's an imp in a tiny Faraday cage inside it.
> That sort of thing. A lot of writers use this situation now, but did
> anybody do it before Heinlein did in 1940?
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
__________
Mike C says in reply to Tim's statement:
Tim,
If I remember correctly he was the first to plow that field just as he
was for several other SF&F themes. If it was not the first, it was the
first since any adventurer novels of the mid-1800 which may have used
magic as an every day labor saving and marketing ploy. I think some
French Forward writer/thinkers had something different about use of
magic (devil type) and trapping, (or attempting that effort) the devil
or his minions. But it was not anywhere close to the everyday common
place setting and thematic tropes Heinlein featured as the background to
which his artistic skills leads us.
His treatment of 'one season clothes' was rather unique though since he
posited any clothing designs as being 'owned' when they are not now, nor
ever have been. Any designer will tell you the only thing owned by a
design house or person is the logo and maybe some catch phrase might be
service-marked but even there the copyright does not extend to the
arrangement of words but rather the creative turn of phrase, and then
only if guarded with the same fervor as any other trade name/logo.
There was a TED or TEDx conference back in 2010 or maybe slightly before
that year related to a different take on the worth of intellectual
property by --- well, I am drawing a blank... time to search for it.
Ah, Johanna Blakley... lessons from fashion's free culture.
http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html
She relates well to the audience throughout the 15-16 minute talk.
Mike C
__________
Cliff Price says in reply to Tim's statement:
Telepathy is not exactly magic. But, it is similar, and was certainly
part of the day-to-day on Barsoom. It may have been an analog that fed
into Heinlein's treatment of magic.
In Stranger in a Strange Land, there is also a
possibly-Barsoomian-inspired disregard for the niceties of remaining
fully garbed.
In any case, Burroughs is under-appreciated as a real sci-fi innovator.
I cannot imagine Heinlein did not read him.
-gramps
__________
john barrick says in reply to Cliff Price's statement:
As it appears to have been written for Unknown (Sept. 1940), I'd say
that John W. Campbell was a bigger influence and "inspiration" than
Burroughs.
Sorry, Tim, I can't remember whether or not another writer beat Heinlein
to the punch with this type of thing, but if so, it could very well have
been one of Heinlein's Unknown stable mates (Lieber, DeCamp, Boucher,
etc.), or someone along the lines of Thorne Smith.
Let us know if you turn anything up on this.
--
john barrick
*Leo got it right the first time*
*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*
__________
Nancy Lebovitz says in reply to john barric's statement:
I can't remember earlier versions, either. At some point, I put together
a list of other stories in the same sub-genre, like Turtledove's much
later _The Toxic Spell Dump_. Maybe we should try to think of more of
this sort of story, and then see if any of them are earlier.
A remarkable thing about "Magic, Inc." is how much it focuses on running
a small business, without getting boring.
I think I've found a theme in the story-- Alex's world getting larger.
He learns about magic (without becoming a magician himself, which I
think is unusual in fantasy), Africans, women in politics, politics in
general.
Nancy
__________
Mike Smith says in reply to Tim's statement:
I think there might have been others, but their concepts of what 'modern
stuff' was, was dictated by the eras they lived in. So a victorian era
writer doing the same thing as Heinlein, would be writing in that era.
Who's doing the publishing?
Meski
http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
-------- Original Message --------
On 2/26/2013 7:34 PM, timpowers1952 wrote:
>
> Hello, people --
>
> I'm writing an introduction to a re-issue of Heinlein's pair of short
> novels, Waldo and Magic Inc., and it seems to me that Magic Inc. was
> the first story to use magic as a commonplace element in an otherwise
> realistic urban setting -- not just magic going on, that is, but magic
> used routinely by everybody, similar to electricity, and in the midst
> of ordinary modern stuff like city buses and newspapers and muggers
> and television. So there's warnings about werewolves on the news
> channel, and in the Yellow Pages you could look up private detectives
> who specialize in lifting curses, and the electric razor you buy at
> Walmart works because there's an imp in a tiny Faraday cage inside it.
> That sort of thing. A lot of writers use this situation now, but did
> anybody do it before Heinlein did in 1940?
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
__________
Mike C says in reply to Tim's statement:
Tim,
If I remember correctly he was the first to plow that field just as he
was for several other SF&F themes. If it was not the first, it was the
first since any adventurer novels of the mid-1800 which may have used
magic as an every day labor saving and marketing ploy. I think some
French Forward writer/thinkers had something different about use of
magic (devil type) and trapping, (or attempting that effort) the devil
or his minions. But it was not anywhere close to the everyday common
place setting and thematic tropes Heinlein featured as the background to
which his artistic skills leads us.
His treatment of 'one season clothes' was rather unique though since he
posited any clothing designs as being 'owned' when they are not now, nor
ever have been. Any designer will tell you the only thing owned by a
design house or person is the logo and maybe some catch phrase might be
service-marked but even there the copyright does not extend to the
arrangement of words but rather the creative turn of phrase, and then
only if guarded with the same fervor as any other trade name/logo.
There was a TED or TEDx conference back in 2010 or maybe slightly before
that year related to a different take on the worth of intellectual
property by --- well, I am drawing a blank... time to search for it.
Ah, Johanna Blakley... lessons from fashion's free culture.
http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html
She relates well to the audience throughout the 15-16 minute talk.
Mike C
__________
Cliff Price says in reply to Tim's statement:
Telepathy is not exactly magic. But, it is similar, and was certainly
part of the day-to-day on Barsoom. It may have been an analog that fed
into Heinlein's treatment of magic.
In Stranger in a Strange Land, there is also a
possibly-Barsoomian-inspired disregard for the niceties of remaining
fully garbed.
In any case, Burroughs is under-appreciated as a real sci-fi innovator.
I cannot imagine Heinlein did not read him.
-gramps
__________
john barrick says in reply to Cliff Price's statement:
As it appears to have been written for Unknown (Sept. 1940), I'd say
that John W. Campbell was a bigger influence and "inspiration" than
Burroughs.
Sorry, Tim, I can't remember whether or not another writer beat Heinlein
to the punch with this type of thing, but if so, it could very well have
been one of Heinlein's Unknown stable mates (Lieber, DeCamp, Boucher,
etc.), or someone along the lines of Thorne Smith.
Let us know if you turn anything up on this.
--
john barrick
*Leo got it right the first time*
*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*
__________
Nancy Lebovitz says in reply to john barric's statement:
I can't remember earlier versions, either. At some point, I put together
a list of other stories in the same sub-genre, like Turtledove's much
later _The Toxic Spell Dump_. Maybe we should try to think of more of
this sort of story, and then see if any of them are earlier.
A remarkable thing about "Magic, Inc." is how much it focuses on running
a small business, without getting boring.
I think I've found a theme in the story-- Alex's world getting larger.
He learns about magic (without becoming a magician himself, which I
think is unusual in fantasy), Africans, women in politics, politics in
general.
Nancy
__________
Mike Smith says in reply to Tim's statement:
I think there might have been others, but their concepts of what 'modern
stuff' was, was dictated by the eras they lived in. So a victorian era
writer doing the same thing as Heinlein, would be writing in that era.
Who's doing the publishing?
Meski
http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
a425couple
Mar 12, 2013, 12:59:47 PM3/12/13
to
"MikeC" <Mi...@nowhere.non> wrote in message...
> Ideas, anyone?
I've been on a road trip, so late to this thread.
But I'll throw out two on on thing mentioned.
SNIPS
in Heinlein's
1) short story about them nasty Ruskies sneaking
A bombs into the USA. Hee Hee! Soon to be Kaboom,
Kaboom, Kaboom all over them!
Sorry about,, was it Cincinatti?
2) the book about telepathy between twins to instantly
keep up communications between far off space ships,
and guy getting sucked into marriage with almost
great grand daughter, or some such.
I'll try to come up with names of story or book if any interest.
> Ideas, anyone?
I've been on a road trip, so late to this thread.
But I'll throw out two on on thing mentioned.
SNIPS
> -------- Original Message --------
> On 2/26/2013 7:34 PM, timpowers1952 wrote:
> > Hello, people --
> > I'm writing an introduction to a re-issue of Heinlein's pair of short
> > novels, Waldo and Magic Inc.,
> Mike C says in reply to Tim's statement: -----------
> On 2/26/2013 7:34 PM, timpowers1952 wrote:
> > Hello, people --
> > I'm writing an introduction to a re-issue of Heinlein's pair of short
> > novels, Waldo and Magic Inc.,
> Cliff Price says in reply to Tim's statement:
> Telepathy is not exactly magic. But, it is similar, and was certainly
> part of the day-to-day on Barsoom. It may have been an analog that fed
> into Heinlein's treatment of magic.
I enjoyed the general area of "telepathy"
> Telepathy is not exactly magic. But, it is similar, and was certainly
> part of the day-to-day on Barsoom. It may have been an analog that fed
> into Heinlein's treatment of magic.
in Heinlein's
1) short story about them nasty Ruskies sneaking
A bombs into the USA. Hee Hee! Soon to be Kaboom,
Kaboom, Kaboom all over them!
Sorry about,, was it Cincinatti?
2) the book about telepathy between twins to instantly
keep up communications between far off space ships,
and guy getting sucked into marriage with almost
great grand daughter, or some such.
I'll try to come up with names of story or book if any interest.
Phil Brown
May 7, 2013, 1:15:06 PM5/7/13
to
Message has been deleted
Kevin D. Marsh
May 19, 2013, 10:48:39 PM5/19/13
to
wrote in message
news:6a05be3c-29a5-4109...@googlegroups.com...
On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 11:15:06 AM UTC-6, Phil Brown wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:23:47 AM UTC-8, MikeC wrote:
>
> > Ideas, anyone?
Ward, the ever-delectable Julianne Moore and Alexandra Powers, Clancy Brown
and David Warner in 1991. It had just that world-set of the supernatural
being the next big thing, but it was set just after WW2 - so it's not the
answer to your question. The screenwriter was Joseph Dougherty, directed by
Martin Campbell.
Oddly, you can't buy this one - HBO released the tapes directly to video
rental stores and recalled every copy, so if you didn't "tape it for later
viewing" and forget to dub over it, you can't see it.
Thw closest thing time-wise to an answer to your question would be the short
stories of Anthony Boucher. His anthology "The Compleat Werewolf"
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Compleat_Werewolf.html?id=C8fyGwAACAAJ
is full of short stories in which the occult is played as a here-and-now
alternative technology, all set in the early to mid-World War Two period.
The story "The Compleat Werewolf" itself was printed in 1941, the first of
the "Fergus O'Breen" mysteries.
And, of course, AFTER the way, C.S. Lewis wrote "The Space Trilogy,"
consisting of "Out of the Silent Planet," "Perelandra," and "That Hideous
Strength," in which the philologist Elwin Ransom is kidnapped and Shanghaied
to Mars by evil scientists working in the employ of the fallen Classical
Gods, who are trying to re-establish themselves as the Masters of Earth;
Ransom is recruited by the true Gods of the Planets - who are actually
angels in the employ of You Know Who (or you would if you read much C.S.
Lewis). This series counts as fiction in which the supernatural is just as
effective as the "natural" or scientific.
Hope thie helps.
Vance Frickey
"The "precautionary principle," properly applied, forbids the precautionary
principle. It is self-contradictory. The precautionary principle therefore
cannot be spoken of in terms that are too harsh" Michael Crichton, "State of
Fear," HarperCollins New York, 2004, p.571
They didn't get all the copies back, apparently. Amazon lists a couple of
used VHS tapes.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Cast+a+Deadly+Spell
loupgarous
May 25, 2013, 7:48:12 PM5/25/13
to
On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 10:59:47 AM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
> "MikeC" <Mi...@nowhere.non> wrote in message...
>
> > Ideas, anyone?
>
>
>
> I've been on a road trip, so late to this thread.
>
> But I'll throw out two on on thing mentioned.
>
>
>
> SNIPS
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
>
> > On 2/26/2013 7:34 PM, timpowers1952 wrote:
>
> > > Hello, people --
>
> > > I'm writing an introduction to a re-issue of Heinlein's pair of short
>
> > > novels, Waldo and Magic Inc.,
>
> > Mike C says in reply to Tim's statement: -----------
>
> > Cliff Price says in reply to Tim's statement:
>
> > Telepathy is not exactly magic. But, it is similar, and was certainly
>
> > part of the day-to-day on Barsoom. It may have been an analog that fed
>
> > into Heinlein's treatment of magic.
>
>
>
> I enjoyed the general area of "telepathy"
>
> in Heinlein's
>
> 1) short story about them nasty Ruskies sneaking
>
> A bombs into the USA. Hee Hee! Soon to be Kaboom,
>
> Kaboom, Kaboom all over them!
>
> Sorry about,, was it Cincinatti?
That story is "Project Nightmare"
> "MikeC" <Mi...@nowhere.non> wrote in message...
>
> > Ideas, anyone?
>
>
>
> I've been on a road trip, so late to this thread.
>
> But I'll throw out two on on thing mentioned.
>
>
>
> SNIPS
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
>
> > On 2/26/2013 7:34 PM, timpowers1952 wrote:
>
> > > Hello, people --
>
> > > I'm writing an introduction to a re-issue of Heinlein's pair of short
>
> > > novels, Waldo and Magic Inc.,
>
> > Mike C says in reply to Tim's statement: -----------
>
> > Cliff Price says in reply to Tim's statement:
>
> > Telepathy is not exactly magic. But, it is similar, and was certainly
>
> > part of the day-to-day on Barsoom. It may have been an analog that fed
>
> > into Heinlein's treatment of magic.
>
>
>
> I enjoyed the general area of "telepathy"
>
> in Heinlein's
>
> 1) short story about them nasty Ruskies sneaking
>
> A bombs into the USA. Hee Hee! Soon to be Kaboom,
>
> Kaboom, Kaboom all over them!
>
> Sorry about,, was it Cincinatti?
>
> 2) the book about telepathy between twins to instantly
>
> keep up communications between far off space ships,
>
> and guy getting sucked into marriage with almost
>
> great grand daughter, or some such.
>
>
>
> I'll try to come up with names of story or book if any interest.
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