I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for one thing. -- Tian http://tian.greens.org Latest change: Marijuana regulation story from San Jose's City Council.
"Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised > the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for > one thing. > Tian
Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses.
Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
> "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... >> I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised >> the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for >> one thing. >> Tian
> Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses. > Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of "Avatar" seems almost > anti-Heinlein. > I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and Heinlein's views on > fights between human & indigenous people?
Heinlein was born among people who would remember the Indian Wars on the plains. I suspect his views changes over a lifetime, but his observation (at most extreme in SST) that you expand or die may have origins in old-timers' tales.
Although by Glory Road Heinlein had no problem observing that the Alaskan Inuit were more highly evolved than Los Angeles suburbanites.
"a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote: > "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised > > the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for > > one thing. > > Tian
> Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses.
> Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
> I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
Doesn't it mostly depend on the attitude and how big a club the indigenous swing? And on which, specifically, humans are carrying on a dispute and for what reason?
The Hroshii swing an awfully big club yet are willing to let bygones be bygones so long as they get their Princess back. The slugs of Titan, conversely, didn't seem to leave anyone any other choice than submission and slavery or war to extinction. On the third hand, Burke's activities on behalf of System Enterprises (kidnapping for ransom and murder to obtain mineral exploitation rights) doesn't seem to draw very much sympathy from the Patrol (although Burke is out on bound at the end of the story and who knows whether his daddy will be able to grease the wheels of justice).
-- David M. Silver http://www.heinleinsociety.org "The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!" Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29 Lt.(jg), USN, R'td
: "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message...
: >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised : > the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for : > one thing. : > Tian : : Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses. : : Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of : "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein. : : I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and : Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
Actually, indigenous people *are* human (but I know what you are trying to say).
> "a425couple"<a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:hpic9306il@news1.newsguy.com... > : "Tian"<tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > :>I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised > :> the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for > :> one thing. > :> Tian > : > : Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses. > : > : Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > : "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein. > : > : I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > : Heinlein's views on fights between human& indigenous people?
> Actually, indigenous people *are* human (but I know what you are trying to > say).
The point of AvatarTheMovie is the locals ARE human also, in the expanded definition.
lal_truckee <lal_truc...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On 4/7/10 2:48 PM, Gaeltach wrote: > > "a425couple"<a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:hpic9306il@news1.newsguy.com... > > : "Tian"<tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > > :>I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised > > :> the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for > > :> one thing. > > :> Tian > > : > > : Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses. > > : > > : Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > > : "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein. > > : > > : I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > > : Heinlein's views on fights between human& indigenous people?
> > Actually, indigenous people *are* human (but I know what you are trying to > > say).
> The point of AvatarTheMovie is the locals ARE human also, in the > expanded definition.
And what if it is stipulated that they are not human? All that stuff about the "Customs of Civilization" in _The Star Beast_ means what? Isn't the issue simply one of civilization, e.g., language, intelligence and under the "orthodox theories of xenological biology" whether the thing can use "patty-paws" to pick things up? Until the day we run into one that doesn't need its patty-paws? Or grows them only when needed?
-- David M. Silver http://www.heinleinsociety.org "The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!" Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29 Lt.(jg), USN, R'td
>On 4/7/10 2:48 PM, Gaeltach wrote: >> "a425couple"<a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:hpic9306il@news1.newsguy.com... >> : "Tian"<tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... >> :>I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised >> :> the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for >> :> one thing. >> :> Tian >> : >> : Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses. >> : >> : Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of >> : "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein. >> : >> : I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and >> : Heinlein's views on fights between human& indigenous people?
>> Actually, indigenous people *are* human (but I know what you are trying to >> say).
>The point of AvatarTheMovie is the locals ARE human also, in the >expanded definition.
Which is a point the Martian genetic engineer makes in "Jerry Was a Man."
-Chris Zakes Texas
You can find complaints as far back as Socrates about how things aren't like they were in "the good old days" and how the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Either hell is a lot farther away than we thought, or that handbasket is moving *really* slowly.
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:35:40 -0700, an orbital mind-control laser caused "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> to write:
>"Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... >>I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised >> the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for >> one thing. >> Tian
>Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses.
>Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of >"Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
>I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and >Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
Well... Heinlein shows many sides of that question:
Aggressively hostile aliens like the bugs in "Starship Troopers" or the centaurs in "Starman Jones." Aliens that appear to be primitive but are really just "differently sophisticated" like in "Space Cadet." Aliens that are far more powerful than humans, like the Hroshii in "The Star Beast" or the Martians in "Stranger,""Red Planet" and possibly "The Rolling Stones." Friendly, somewhat human-like aliens like the dragons in "Between Planets" or the Rargyllians in "The Star Beast."
As with many other subjects, that darn Heinlein fellow just won't stay in his pigeonhole.
-Chris Zakes Texas
You can find complaints as far back as Socrates about how things aren't like they were in "the good old days" and how the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Either hell is a lot farther away than we thought, or that handbasket is moving *really* slowly.
On Apr 7, 12:35 pm, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised > > the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for > > one thing. > > Tian
> Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses.
> Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
> I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
If you are talking SsT, the Arachnids weren't "indigenous people" in the sense I think you mean. They were another expanding imperial force, competing for generally uninhabited real-estate. The "if you are there first it's yours; if we are there first, it's ours" policy that the humans seemed to operate by didn't satisfy them. So they attacked. This is much more like Elizabethan England versus Spain, either side being the humans or the bugs, than it is like Avatar or Wounded Knee.
The Martians and Venusians in several of his works seem willing to allow humans on their worlds, under restrictions that the humans don't always like. In at least one, it is clear that the Martians could very much do something dire about it if the humans don't watch it. The Venusian Dragons were also formidable and technelogically, or at least scientifically, advanced. But they stayed out of the war in _Between Planets_
Avatar has a strong anti-western theme, much like "Dances with Wolves" but less literate, and Heinlein was certainly pro-western. Oddly enough, the idea that one shouldn't mistreat indigenous peoples is also very western. Conquest and enslavement was always accepted everywhere until the educated people in the nations that had done so much of it realized that it was wrong.
"lal_truckee" <lal_truc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message... > Gaeltach wrote: >> "a425couple"<a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote in... >> : "Tian"<tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... >> :>I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised >> :> the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for >> :> one thing. >> :> Tian >> : >> : Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses. >> : >> : Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of >> : "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein. >> : >> : I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and >> : Heinlein's views on fights between human& indigenous people?
>> Actually, indigenous people *are* human >> (but I know what you are trying to say).
> The point of AvatarTheMovie is the locals ARE human also, in the > expanded definition.
(As I said before, "I do not know.") Perhaps I was all wrong in my words. Wiki, "human" = "Humans commonly refers to the species Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man"),[3][4] the only extant member of the Homo genus of bipedal primates in Hominidae, the great ape family. However, in some cases the term is used to refer to any member of the genus Homo." Hmmm, (Well frump!! that is not crystal clear!)
Are the "natives" in Avitar of the Species, Homo sapiens? Are the "natives" in Avitar of the Genus, Homo?
OK from a "Avatar" plot summary: "When his brother is killed in a robbery, paraplegic Marine Jake Sully decides to take his place in a mission on the distant world of Pandora. There he learns of greedy corporate figurehead Parker Selfridge's intentions of driving off the native humanoid "Na'vi" in order to mine for the precious material scattered throughout their rich woodland. In exchange for the spinal surgery that will fix his legs, Jake gathers intel for the cooperating military unit spearheaded by gung-ho Colonel Quaritch, while simultaneously attempting to infiltrate the Na'vi people with the use of an "avatar" identity. While Jake begins to bond with the native tribe and quickly falls in love with the beautiful alien Neytiri, the restless Colonel moves forward with his ruthless extermination tactics, forcing the soldier to take a stand - and fight back in an epic battle for the fate of Pandora. Written by The Massie Twins"
Is "Neytiri" one of the "Na'vi"? If so: How can they call Neytiri an "alien", and at same time call the "Na'vi" "humanoid" ?
Euuch, still nothing very clear. "Frump again." I am going to hit send, maybe somebody wishes to figure this out.
"Will in New Haven" <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote...
- "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote: > "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening.
> Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
> I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
-If you are talking SsT, the Arachnids weren't "indigenous people" in -the sense I think you mean. They were another expanding imperial -force, competing for generally uninhabited real-estate. The "if you -are there first it's yours; if we are there first, it's ours" policy -that the humans seemed to operate by didn't satisfy them. So they -attacked. This is much more like Elizabethan England versus Spain, -either side being the humans or the bugs, than it is like Avatar or -Wounded Knee. -The Martians and Venusians in several of his works seem willing to -allow humans on their worlds, under restrictions that the humans don't -always like. In at least one, it is clear that the Martians could very -much do something dire about it if the humans don't watch it. The -Venusian Dragons were also formidable and technelogically, or at least -scientifically, advanced. But they stayed out of the war in _Between -Planets_
-Avatar has a strong anti-western theme, much like "Dances with -Wolves" but less literate, and Heinlein was certainly pro-western.
Thank you Will. Thank you so much. For properly saying, what I seemed unable to express.
-Oddly enough, the idea that one shouldn't mistreat indigenous peoples is -also very western. Conquest and enslavement was always accepted -everywhere until the educated people in the nations that had done so -much of it realized that it was wrong. -Will in New Haven
OK, I'll try a fresh start. What label can we all agree on, for a 'group' that includes: Robert Heinlein, Rod Walker (TITS), Oscar (Glory Road), and Carmen = Carmencita Ibanez (SST), But does not include ones such as "bouncers and Old Ones" (Red Planet page 194) and Syndonians (CitizenOTG page 7) ?
> "Will in New Haven" <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote...
> - "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > > >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening.
> > Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > > "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
> > I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > > Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
> -If you are talking SsT, the Arachnids weren't "indigenous people" in > -the sense I think you mean. They were another expanding imperial > -force, competing for generally uninhabited real-estate. The "if you > -are there first it's yours; if we are there first, it's ours" policy > -that the humans seemed to operate by didn't satisfy them. So they > -attacked. This is much more like Elizabethan England versus Spain, > -either side being the humans or the bugs, than it is like Avatar or > -Wounded Knee. > -The Martians and Venusians in several of his works seem willing to > -allow humans on their worlds, under restrictions that the humans don't > -always like. In at least one, it is clear that the Martians could very > -much do something dire about it if the humans don't watch it. The > -Venusian Dragons were also formidable and technelogically, or at least > -scientifically, advanced. But they stayed out of the war in _Between > -Planets_
> -Avatar has a strong anti-western theme, much like "Dances with > -Wolves" but less literate, and Heinlein was certainly pro-western.
> Thank you Will. Thank you so much. > For properly saying, what I seemed unable to express.
> -Oddly enough, the idea that one shouldn't mistreat indigenous peoples is > -also very western. Conquest and enslavement was always accepted > -everywhere until the educated people in the nations that had done so > -much of it realized that it was wrong. > -Will in New Haven
> OK, I'll try a fresh start. > What label can we all agree on, for a 'group' that includes: > Robert Heinlein, Rod Walker (TITS), Oscar (Glory Road), > and Carmen = Carmencita Ibanez (SST), > But does not include ones such as "bouncers and Old Ones" > (Red Planet page 194) and Syndonians (CitizenOTG page 7) ?
I just say humans for the biologically human and "people" for everyone else who is a person. This would include the aliens you mention, although the Syndonians ae human-descended, and also the Venusian Dragons and a few other alien beings in Heinlein. He really wasn't one who postulated a lot of alien types. But he was clear that they were people.
For instance, there is no doubt that the Mother Thing is a person, although she is clearly not a human. Some of the Cetatians on this planet and possibly some of the Cephalapods are also clearly people, in my opinion, as are the great apes and elephants. Some AIs and certainly the AIs in Heinlein are people.
My cat WooToo would not accept the demotion to human but person is ok if it is said respectfully.
> I just say humans for the biologically human and "people" for everyone > else who is a person. This would include the aliens you mention, > although the Syndonians ae human-descended, and also the Venusian > Dragons and a few other alien beings in Heinlein. He really wasn't one > who postulated a lot of alien types. But he was clear that they were > people.
> For instance, there is no doubt that the Mother Thing is a person, > although she is clearly not a human. Some of the Cetatians on this > planet and possibly some of the Cephalapods are also clearly people, > in my opinion, as are the great apes and elephants. Some AIs and > certainly the AIs in Heinlein are people.
> My cat WooToo would not accept the demotion to human but person is ok > if it is said respectfully.
In pondering the role of subsidies in politics, I've realized that Karo syrup is MUCH more subsidized than maple syrup. I've since put a bottle of Karo syrup next to the pink piggy bank. Soon enough dropping a coin in that bank will purtabate that corn syrup, salt, & vanilla in plastic. I'm MUCH more likely to consume the syrup than I am the SPAM behind it. -- Tian http://tian.greens.org I showed new deception dollars to the teller at California Bank & Trust. I offered to leave the bills but they said "No funny money in the Bank!"
> > I just say humans for the biologically human and "people" for everyone > > else who is a person. This would include the aliens you mention, > > although the Syndonians ae human-descended, and also the Venusian > > Dragons and a few other alien beings in Heinlein. He really wasn't one > > who postulated a lot of alien types. But he was clear that they were > > people.
> > For instance, there is no doubt that the Mother Thing is a person, > > although she is clearly not a human. Some of the Cetatians on this > > planet and possibly some of the Cephalapods are also clearly people, > > in my opinion, as are the great apes and elephants. Some AIs and > > certainly the AIs in Heinlein are people.
> > My cat WooToo would not accept the demotion to human but person is ok > > if it is said respectfully.
> In pondering the role of subsidies in politics, I've realized that Karo > syrup is MUCH more subsidized than maple syrup. I've since put a bottle > of Karo syrup next to the pink piggy bank. Soon enough dropping a coin > in that bank will purtabate that corn syrup, salt, & vanilla in plastic. > I'm MUCH more likely to consume the syrup than I am the SPAM behind it.
Why would that be a reply to anything in my post? What does it have to do with this thread? Why didn't you just shout it out your window.
> > I just say humans for the biologically human and "people" for everyone > > else who is a person. This would include the aliens you mention, > > although the Syndonians ae human-descended, and also the Venusian > > Dragons and a few other alien beings in Heinlein. He really wasn't one > > who postulated a lot of alien types. But he was clear that they were > > people.
> > For instance, there is no doubt that the Mother Thing is a person, > > although she is clearly not a human. Some of the Cetatians on this > > planet and possibly some of the Cephalapods are also clearly people, > > in my opinion, as are the great apes and elephants. Some AIs and > > certainly the AIs in Heinlein are people.
> > My cat WooToo would not accept the demotion to human but person is ok > > if it is said respectfully.
> In pondering the role of subsidies in politics, I've realized that Karo > syrup is MUCH more subsidized than maple syrup. I've since put a bottle > of Karo syrup next to the pink piggy bank. Soon enough dropping a coin > in that bank will purtabate that corn syrup, salt, & vanilla in plastic. > I'm MUCH more likely to consume the syrup than I am the SPAM behind it. > -- > Tianhttp://tian.greens.org > I showed new deception dollars to the teller at California Bank & Trust. > I offered to leave the bills but they said "No funny money in the Bank!"
> "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > > >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised > > > the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for > > > one thing. > > > Tian
> > Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses.
> > Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > > "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
> > I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > > Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
> Doesn't it mostly depend on the attitude and how big a club the > indigenous swing? And on which, specifically, humans are carrying on a > dispute and for what reason?
> The Hroshii swing an awfully big club yet are willing to let bygones be > bygones so long as they get their Princess back.
The Hroshii's decision cycle was pretty much driven by whim of the Princess, IIRC. She'd been raising John Thomas Stuarts for so many years, and those Terrans are so cute... who KNOWS how vindictive they might have been when HRH's pet race wasn't concerned....
> > "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > > > >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised > > > > the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for > > > > one thing. > > > > Tian
> > > Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses.
> > > Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > > > "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
> > > I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > > > Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
> > Doesn't it mostly depend on the attitude and how big a club the > > indigenous swing? And on which, specifically, humans are carrying on a > > dispute and for what reason?
> > The Hroshii swing an awfully big club yet are willing to let bygones be > > bygones so long as they get their Princess back.
> The Hroshii's decision cycle was pretty much driven by whim of the > Princess, IIRC. She'd been raising John Thomas Stuarts for so many > years, and those Terrans are so cute... who KNOWS how vindictive they > might have been when HRH's pet race wasn't concerned....
It is good that he didn't write that for John Campbell. Humans survive by being good PETS. YOIKS.
>"lal_truckee" <lal_truc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message... >> Gaeltach wrote: >>> "a425couple"<a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote in... >>> : "Tian"<tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... >>> :>I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised >>> :> the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for >>> :> one thing. >>> :> Tian >>> : >>> : Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses. >>> : >>> : Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of >>> : "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein. >>> : >>> : I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and >>> : Heinlein's views on fights between human& indigenous people?
>>> Actually, indigenous people *are* human >>> (but I know what you are trying to say).
>> The point of AvatarTheMovie is the locals ARE human also, in the >> expanded definition.
>(As I said before, "I do not know.") >Perhaps I was all wrong in my words. >Wiki, "human" = >"Humans commonly refers to the species Homo sapiens >(Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man"),[3][4] the only extant >member of the Homo genus of bipedal primates in Hominidae, >the great ape family. >However, in some cases the term is used to refer to any member >of the genus Homo." >Hmmm, (Well frump!! that is not crystal clear!)
>Are the "natives" in Avitar of the Species, Homo sapiens? >Are the "natives" in Avitar of the Genus, Homo?
>OK from a "Avatar" plot summary: >"When his brother is killed in a robbery, paraplegic Marine Jake Sully >decides to take his place in a mission on the distant world of Pandora. >There he learns of greedy corporate figurehead Parker Selfridge's >intentions of driving off the native humanoid "Na'vi" in order to mine >for the precious material scattered throughout their rich woodland. >In exchange for the spinal surgery that will fix his legs, Jake gathers >intel for the cooperating military unit spearheaded by gung-ho >Colonel Quaritch, while simultaneously attempting to infiltrate the >Na'vi people with the use of an "avatar" identity. While Jake begins >to bond with the native tribe and quickly falls in love with the beautiful >alien Neytiri, the restless Colonel moves forward with his ruthless >extermination tactics, forcing the soldier to take a stand - and fight >back in an epic battle for the fate of Pandora. >Written by The Massie Twins"
>Is "Neytiri" one of the "Na'vi"? >If so: >How can they call Neytiri an "alien", >and at same time call the "Na'vi" "humanoid" ?
Simple enough. "Alien" basically means "not from around here." In modern political parlance, it usually means someone from another country; in science fiction it usually means someone from another planet.
"Humanoid" means "human-shaped"--two arms, two legs, head at the top. In "Between Planets" the move-overs are humanoid, the dragons aren't. But they're both aliens.
-Chris Zakes Texas
You can find complaints as far back as Socrates about how things aren't like they were in "the good old days" and how the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Either hell is a lot farther away than we thought, or that handbasket is moving *really* slowly.
On Apr 8, 10:22 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Is "Neytiri" one of the "Na'vi"? > If so: > How can they call Neytiri an "alien", > and at same time call the "Na'vi" "humanoid" ?
It is simply a means to an end -- the end being that "we" are evil. So definitions and meanings have no......uh.....meaning other than to serve the cause.
I haven't seen it yet, but feel I have, based on so many reviews from so many viewpoints.
And......the more I read, the more I understand the nickname: "Dances With Smurfs"
> On Apr 8, 6:34 pm, loupgarous<vfric...@forethought.net> wrote:
>> The Hroshii's decision cycle was pretty much driven by whim of the >> Princess, IIRC. She'd been raising John Thomas Stuarts for so many >> years, and those Terrans are so cute... who KNOWS how vindictive they >> might have been when HRH's pet race wasn't concerned....
> It is good that he didn't write that for John Campbell. Humans survive > by being good PETS. > YOIKS.
You know, this is another good example of how hard it is to pin down Heinlein. Here Heinlein seems at ease with Lummox raising John Thomases as pets, yet in Methuselah's Children he is vehement that humans aren't meant to be pets...
> > On Apr 8, 6:34 pm, loupgarous<vfric...@forethought.net> wrote:
> >> The Hroshii's decision cycle was pretty much driven by whim of the > >> Princess, IIRC. She'd been raising John Thomas Stuarts for so many > >> years, and those Terrans are so cute... who KNOWS how vindictive they > >> might have been when HRH's pet race wasn't concerned....
> > It is good that he didn't write that for John Campbell. Humans survive > > by being good PETS. > > YOIKS.
> You know, this is another good example of how hard it is to pin down > Heinlein. > Here Heinlein seems at ease with Lummox raising John Thomases as pets, > yet in Methuselah's Children he is vehement that humans aren't meant to > be pets...
Isn't it more one Lazarus Long who is vehement? I have always thought there was less of RAH in LL than people think.
loupgarous <vfric...@forethought.net> wrote: > On Apr 7, 11:38 am, "David M. Silver" <ag.plus...@verizon.net> wrote: > > In article <hpic930...@news1.newsguy.com>,
> > "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > > > >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised > > > > the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for > > > > one thing. > > > > Tian
> > > Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses.
> > > Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > > > "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
> > > I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > > > Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
> > Doesn't it mostly depend on the attitude and how big a club the > > indigenous swing? And on which, specifically, humans are carrying on a > > dispute and for what reason?
> > The Hroshii swing an awfully big club yet are willing to let bygones be > > bygones so long as they get their Princess back.
> The Hroshii's decision cycle was pretty much driven by whim of the > Princess, IIRC. She'd been raising John Thomas Stuarts for so many > years, and those Terrans are so cute... who KNOWS how vindictive they > might have been when HRH's pet race wasn't concerned....
You've been missing a bit, Vance. Hope you're doing reasonably well. Don't disagree with you about the Hroshii.
-- David M. Silver http://www.heinleinsociety.org "The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!" Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29 Lt.(jg), USN, R'td
> > On Apr 8, 6:34 pm, loupgarous<vfric...@forethought.net> wrote:
> >> The Hroshii's decision cycle was pretty much driven by whim of the > >> Princess, IIRC. She'd been raising John Thomas Stuarts for so many > >> years, and those Terrans are so cute... who KNOWS how vindictive they > >> might have been when HRH's pet race wasn't concerned....
> > It is good that he didn't write that for John Campbell. Humans survive > > by being good PETS. > > YOIKS.
> You know, this is another good example of how hard it is to pin down > Heinlein. > Here Heinlein seems at ease with Lummox raising John Thomases as pets, > yet in Methuselah's Children he is vehement that humans aren't meant to > be pets...
Well, Her Highness/"Lummox" didn't insist on making HER pets lobomized members of a group mind, which IIRC was Lazarus Long's problem with the Jockaira.
> In article > <7a970964-d554-41ae-ad55-44ef6dc24...@b23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> loupgarous <vfric...@forethought.net> wrote: > > On Apr 7, 11:38 am, "David M. Silver" <ag.plus...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > In article <hpic930...@news1.newsguy.com>,
> > > "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > "Tian" <tnhar...@aceweb.com> wrote in message... > > > > >I just saw that movie for the first time last evening. I'm surprised > > > > > the similarity hasn't been discussed here. He had the body armor for > > > > > one thing. > > > > > Tian
> > > > Jeanette posted on it January 16th, fair number of responses.
> > > > Nobody mentioned (IIRC) that a strong theme of > > > > "Avatar" seems almost anti-Heinlein.
> > > > I do not know. How do others view both Avitar's and > > > > Heinlein's views on fights between human & indigenous people?
> > > Doesn't it mostly depend on the attitude and how big a club the > > > indigenous swing? And on which, specifically, humans are carrying on a > > > dispute and for what reason?
> > > The Hroshii swing an awfully big club yet are willing to let bygones be > > > bygones so long as they get their Princess back.
> > The Hroshii's decision cycle was pretty much driven by whim of the > > Princess, IIRC. She'd been raising John Thomas Stuarts for so many > > years, and those Terrans are so cute... who KNOWS how vindictive they > > might have been when HRH's pet race wasn't concerned....
> You've been missing a bit, Vance. Hope you're doing reasonably well. > Don't disagree with you about the Hroshii.
I'm pretty well, thanks, David. It's nice to be back.
