Sarah Palin mentioned TANSTAAFL on O'Reilly last night

Lynn McGuire

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Sep 12, 2012, 1:14:01 PM9/12/12

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Sarah Palin mentioned TANSTAAFL on the O'Reilly
show last night, Sept 11, 2012. It was cool!

Lynn

tian

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Sep 12, 2012, 2:13:10 PM9/12/12

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On 09/12/2012 10:14 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> Sarah Palin mentioned TANSTAAFL on the O'Reilly
> show last night, Sept 11, 2012. It was cool!
>

That's cool! Did she spell it out or say "tan-staffel"?
--
Tian
http://tian.greens.org
Latest change: Added an update on the current state of my garden.
The Green pin I got from a Kiwi in Baltimore's on a Mississippi quarter.

Michael Black

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Sep 12, 2012, 2:56:26 PM9/12/12

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On Wed, 12 Sep 2012, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> Sarah Palin mentioned TANSTAAFL on the O'Reilly
> show last night, Sept 11, 2012. It was cool!
>

I'm not so sure it's a Heinlein reference nowadays. I think it's spread
out so much, so she's just using some slogan she read somewhere, rather
than quoting Heinlein. I can't remember exactly where I got it, but in
the summer of 1980 somewhere in San Francisco or the pacific northwest I
bought a TANSTAAFL button, and it wasn't a science fiction place, I have a
vague memory that it was actually a Liberterian type store.

Michael

ma...@thehickmans.us

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Sep 12, 2012, 3:45:29 PM9/12/12

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On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:56:21 PM UTC-5, Michael Black wrote:
> I'm not so sure it's a Heinlein reference nowadays. I think it's spread
> out so much, so she's just using some slogan she read somewhere, rather
> than quoting Heinlein. I can't remember exactly where I got it, but in
> the summer of 1980 somewhere in San Francisco or the pacific northwest I
> bought a TANSTAAFL button, and it wasn't a science fiction place, I have a
> vague memory that it was actually a Liberterian type store.

> Michael

"Grok" is no longer a Heinlein reference either. But he still coined the word.

--
Matt Hickman
If you're out in field and a cobber needs air, you lend him your bottle
and don't ask cash. But when you're both back in pressure again, if he won't
pay up, nobody would criticize if you eliminated him without a judge. But
he would pay; air is almost as sacred as women.
Robert A. Heinlein (1907 - 1988)
_The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress_ c 1966

Michael Black

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Sep 12, 2012, 7:06:04 PM9/12/12

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On Wed, 12 Sep 2012, ma...@thehickmans.us wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:56:21 PM UTC-5, Michael Black wrote:
>> I'm not so sure it's a Heinlein reference nowadays. I think it's spread
>> out so much, so she's just using some slogan she read somewhere, rather
>> than quoting Heinlein. I can't remember exactly where I got it, but in
>> the summer of 1980 somewhere in San Francisco or the pacific northwest I
>> bought a TANSTAAFL button, and it wasn't a science fiction place, I have a
>> vague memory that it was actually a Liberterian type store.
>
>> Michael
>
> "Grok" is no longer a Heinlein reference either. But he still coined the word.
>

Yes, but there's a difference between saying "There's no such thing as a
free lunch" and saying "This reminds me of the time Heinlein said 'There's
no such thing as a free lunch'". Once something is out there, the less
likely someone actually knows where it comes from, and it's not being used
to invoke Heinlein.

Michael

Lynn McGuire

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Sep 12, 2012, 7:47:52 PM9/12/12

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On 9/12/2012 1:13 PM, tian wrote:
> On 09/12/2012 10:14 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> Sarah Palin mentioned TANSTAAFL on the O'Reilly
>> show last night, Sept 11, 2012. It was cool!
>>
> That's cool! Did she spell it out or say "tan-staffel"?

She spelled it out in response to an O'Reilly
question about federal spending. She did not
mention Heinlein.

Lynn

lal_truckee

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Sep 12, 2012, 8:16:17 PM9/12/12

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On 9/12/12 4:06 PM, Michael Black wrote:
> the less likely someone actually knows where it comes from, and it's not
> being used to invoke Heinlein

Heinlein's use of TANSTAAFL is at least a generation after coinage.

<http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tanstaafl.html>
quote:
The earliest citation I can find for tanstaafl is from October 1949,
when it appeared in a book review published in several US newspapers,
including The Independent Record:

Now, our secret: Tanstaafl is mnemonic for "there ain't no such
thing as a free lunch."
unquote

Grok I believe is original...

Michael Black

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Sep 12, 2012, 10:14:19 PM9/12/12

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I wondered about that, it's something that sounds like it existed before.
I can almost picture it in a book, maybe Steinbeck, simplified to "there
ain't no free lunch".

So it's even less a Heinlein reference than some would like it to be.

Michael

tian

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Sep 13, 2012, 7:57:39 PM9/13/12

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I guess if we have that to thank for your company here and now,
Heinleinia got something out of it. It's a pleasure to meet you!

--
Tian
http://tian.greens.org
Latest change: Added an update on the current state of my garden.

The Green pin I got from a Kiwi in Baltimore's on an Illinois quarter.

loupgarous

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Sep 27, 2012, 4:25:45 PM9/27/12

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Rudyard Kipling may actually be the first "man of letters" to mention the convention of the "free lunch," in his very good series of essays published as "American Notes." (which is available, gratis, in Project Gutenberg - http://www.gutenberg.org/files/977/977-h/977-h.htm )

"By instinct I sought refreshment, and came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts."

This is possibly the first mention of the convention in a major literary work. TANSTAAFL is identified in Morris's "Word and Phrase Origins" (from my dim memories of it in junior high school) as the text of a sign informing those who sat down to dine at such a counter that they were expected to drink in exchange for the "free" buffet. Given the profit margins restaurants make on anything served in a glass, alcoholic or not, these days, it might even be possible to offer a "buffet" of salty dishes "free" as long as you charged by the glass for cola, water, or whatever was served as liquid refreshment.

Michael Stemper

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Sep 28, 2012, 9:30:56 AM9/28/12

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In article <1793df62-9307-4ff3...@googlegroups.com>, loupgarous <vfri...@forethought.net> writes:
>> On Wed, 12 Sep 2012, lal_truckee wrote:

>> > Heinlein's use of TANSTAAFL is at least a generation after coinage.

>> > <http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tanstaafl.html>

>Rudyard Kipling may actually be the first "man of letters" to mention the c=
>onvention of the "free lunch," in his very good series of essays published =
>as "American Notes."

>This is possibly the first mention of the convention in a major literary wo=
>rk. TANSTAAFL is identified in Morris's "Word and Phrase Origins" (from my=
> dim memories of it in junior high school) as the text of a sign informing =
>those who sat down to dine at such a counter that they were expected to dri=
>nk in exchange for the "free" buffet. Given the profit margins restaurants=
> make on anything served in a glass, alcoholic or not, these days, it might=
> even be possible to offer a "buffet" of salty dishes "free" as long as you=
> charged by the glass for cola, water, or whatever was served as liquid ref=
>reshment.

It's pretty common practice to put out bowls of popcorn, or salted peanuts,
or Gardetto-like stuff. Many places will also put out steam trays containing
things like chicken wings.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Life's too important to take seriously.