Number of the Beast
The Sarcastic Geek
I am inquiring about the book "The Number of the Beast", for I am
looking for a light read. At this time, I am about to finish off the
third book in the Dune series, I am reading "The Sandman" collection,
and I am about to start on existentialism. I am trying to find a book
to read before bed that will replace "The Children of the Dune". I am
having a hard time choosing between "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress",
which I have already read once, and "The Number of the Beast", which I
came across in the book store yesterday.
If someone could please inform me about the book and whether they liked
it, I would be greatful, for my other half read the book when he was in
high school and only remembers that he did not like it (I think old age
is taking its toll). If no one has read the book, maybe you can suggest
another Heinlein book.
Thank You,
The Sarcastic Geek
--
I have been searching high and low for the Puppet Master, for I cannot
find her.
David Wright
"The Sarcastic Geek" <sarcas...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vk47c9m...@corp.supernews.com...
readers into various competing camps, those that hate it, those that love it
and those, of various stripes, in between.
I originally had problems with _TNOTB_, finding the shifting viewpoint style
of reading somewhat distracting. In addition, like some others here, I had
the feeling that RAH intended this book to be his final work. Fortunately, I
was wrong. Others didn't get that same feeling.
I actually don't recommend reading this particular book until you are well
versed in all of RAH's works, because there is such a tie-in to most of them
that it makes it difficult to get a lot of the references. OTOH, I have
found that re-reading RAH *always* makes me aware of things that I didn't
previously get so that might be a moot point for you.
I have been reading and re-reading RAH since 1953 and there are still a lot
of things that I haven't gotten yet :-)
You might be interested in reading some more about _TNOTB_ in an essay found
at http://heinleinsociety.org/numberbeast.html
--
David Wright
http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/index.html
http://heinleinsociety.org
Help us prepare for the upcoming Centennial of the birthday of Robert A.
Heinlein
http://heinlein100.org
Anytime is a good time to join us in The Heinlein Society
http://heinleinsociety.org/membership.html
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
Ogden Johnson III
>Hello to all,
> I am inquiring about the book "The Number of the Beast", for I am
>looking for a light read. At this time, I am about to finish off the
>third book in the Dune series, I am reading "The Sandman" collection,
>and I am about to start on existentialism. I am trying to find a book
>to read before bed that will replace "The Children of the Dune". I am
>having a hard time choosing between "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress",
>which I have already read once, and "The Number of the Beast", which I
>came across in the book store yesterday.
Given your criteria as "a book to read before bed", I would recommend
any of the - misnamed but that's how they're commonly known -
"juveniles", like Citizen of the Galaxy, Have Spaceship Will Travel,
The Rolling Stones, etc., that you haven't read. [Did I forget Star
Beast. How could I forget The Star Beast?] The Number of the Beast
has a lot of levels, as many as Dune if not more, that are guaranteed
to give you insomnia more than once if you try it as bedtime reading.
;->
>If someone could please inform me about the book and whether they liked
>it, I would be greatful, for my other half read the book when he was in
>high school and only remembers that he did not like it (I think old age
>is taking its toll).
Not an uncommon experience, even among those of us who came to enjoy
the novel thoroughly.
>If no one has read the book,
ROTFLMAOWTIME. I can almost guarantee you that *everyone* here, save,
perhaps, those who have just discovered Heinlein, have at least tried
TNotB at least once.
>maybe you can suggest another Heinlein book.
Ibid for one thought. Or, if you haven't essayed all of them, pretty
much any of his short story collections that you haven't read and can
lay your hands on.
OJ III
Chuck Walker
news:4fk4kvkvcjo6a03nd...@4ax.com...
> ROTFLMAOWTIME.
ROTFLMAO I get. but what the zark does WTIME stand for. Maybe I'd been off
usenet too long before I came back last week.
--
Chuck Walker Jr.---Former bible thumper, sometime booze hound, current
college student, and occasional nut.
"The ships hung in the sky much in the way that bricks don't"-Douglas Adams
Christopher A. Bohn
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, Chuck Walker wrote:
> "Ogden Johnson III" <o...@cpcug.org> wrote:
> > ROTFLMAOWTIME.
> ROTFLMAO I get. but what the zark does WTIME stand for. Maybe I'd been off
> usenet too long before I came back last week.
Wild guess: "... with toes in my ear"?
Take care,
cb
--
Christopher A. Bohn ____________|____________
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~bohn/ ' ** ** " (o) " ** ** '
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing."
- Wernher von Braun
Akantha
news:Pine.GSO.4.40.030819...@mu.cis.ohio-state.edu...
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, Chuck Walker wrote:
> > "Ogden Johnson III" <o...@cpcug.org> wrote:
> > > ROTFLMAOWTIME.
> > ROTFLMAO I get. but what the zark does WTIME stand for. Maybe I'd been
off
> > usenet too long before I came back last week.
>
> Wild guess: "... with toes in my ear"?
Hand him a hanky, he's got tears in his eyes. :)
--
Akantha
-----------
Tony
As has already been mentioned, you might want to check out some of RAH's
other books, especially those in the Future History series, and books
like "Glory Road", "Time Enough For Love", and "Methusalah's Children".
Be prepared to check into certain other books after you read NotB.
I have read NotB quite a few times and thoroughly enjoyed it every time!
The Sarcastic Geek
Through Walls", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "Job...", the one about
the bugs, several of his short stories, and the one about the martin who
made films. I have read a few more than that, but I just cannot
remember the titles at the moment. I was hoping someone might mention a
book that they fell in love with, like me with "Stranger in a Strange
Land", and what let me know. I also wanted to know if I should start
"The Number of the Beast" now or wait until next summer when I am taking
a break from class. Thank You everyone who wrote back.
The Sarcastic Geek
--
The Sarcastic Geek
I have many of his books on my shelve, but I do not have the time to
read them all, plus the other books. I was hoping someone might be able
to tip the balance for me by suggesting a book and why, i.e. a paticular
point/philosophy of his was brought out in the book.
Christopher A. Bohn
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, The Sarcastic Geek wrote:
> I have read all of the books you have mention plus "The Cat Who Walked
> Through Walls", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "Job...", the one about
> the bugs, several of his short stories, and the one about the martin who
> made films. I have read a few more than that, but I just cannot
> remember the titles at the moment. I was hoping someone might mention a
> book that they fell in love with, like me with "Stranger in a Strange
> Land", and what let me know. I also wanted to know if I should start
> "The Number of the Beast" now or wait until next summer when I am taking
> a break from class. Thank You everyone who wrote back.
Like you, I read TCWWTW before TNOTB. Some of the material later in
TCWWTW I considered to be "interesting concepts", and when I read TNOTB, I
saw their origin and enjoyed seeing them develop. But I must admit that
the description of the Ford with restrooms and a grand piano I considered
to be hyperbole to convey how roomy it was, despite appearances. In
TNOTB, I learned that the description was literal.
I read TNOTB while taking classes as "brain candy" -- took a couple weeks
since I wouldn't allow myself to sit down and read it straight through. I
have no problem with recommending that you pick up TNOTB and start reading
it now -- but be prepared for some lengthy dialog.
Oscagne
"The Sarcastic Geek" <sarcas...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vk5nn9q...@corp.supernews.com...
> I am also wondering about "Puppet Master", for I have it on my shelve.
> I have many of his books on my shelve, but I do not have the time to
> read them all, plus the other books. I was hoping someone might be able
> to tip the balance for me by suggesting a book and why, i.e. a paticular
> point/philosophy of his was brought out in the book.
If you're looking for "brain candy" more than an intellectual read, go ahead
with Puppet Masters. It's more a horror than a philisophical treatise.
I'm am still waiting breathlessly for Operation Bareback. %^) (Although
this may not affect the SoCal flicka-watching very much.)
--
Oscagne, High Priest of Skeptics and Cynics
wanna read a story? http://users.ev1.net/~mcgrew/mss
or see my goofy website? http://users.ev1.net/~mcgrew/webpage/home.htm
Denny Wheeler
<acvickers1...@juno.com> wrote:
>As has already been mentioned, you might want to check out some of RAH's
>other books, especially those in the Future History series, and books
>like "Glory Road", "Time Enough For Love", and "Methusalah's Children".
>Be prepared to check into certain other books after you read NotB.
>
>I have read NotB quite a few times and thoroughly enjoyed it every time!
Aside from a hearty 'aol' to the above, all I can add is that 'Number'
is my favorite Heinlein.
But. I doubt I'd have liked it nearly as much had I not already been
familiar with all of RAH's previous work.
--And it also helps to have read a lot of 'classic' SF and fantasy.
There are moments...
<sort of spoiler warning>
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I *always* semi-break up when D and Z learn each others' names.
Which I wouldn't, had I not read the relevant non-RAH work.
--
-denny (curmudgeon)
"I'm full of good answers--sometimes it's the question that's wrong."
Miss Behavin'
Simon Jester US
"Denny Wheeler" <den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote in message
news:j646kvgi1necoe9d4...@4ax.com...
>
> But. I doubt I'd have liked it nearly as much had I not already been
> familiar with all of RAH's previous work.
> --And it also helps to have read a lot of 'classic' SF and fantasy.
> There are moments...
>
> <sort of spoiler warning>
>
> .
>
> Which I wouldn't, had I not read the relevant non-RAH work.
>
Then again, there are people like me who wouldn't have read the John Carter
stories or Grey Lensman WITHOUT the influence of Heinlein. I've been on a
mission to read the stuff he read. To give myself an education in the
Classics, as it were.
Howard Berkowitz
<simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> wrote:
Muses on possible resemblance between Deety and Clarissa
David Dyer-Bennet
I don't consider Burroughs or Oz to be classics of SF. Burroughs is
nasty hack work, and Oz isn't SF. I can't read Burroughs, not
interested in reading Oz. He did have an interesting take on the
Lensman Universe, though; particularly interesting coming from him.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <dd...@dd-b.net>, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera mailing lists: <dragaera.info/>
BFD
> I have read all of the books you have mention plus "The Cat Who Walked
> Through Walls", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "Job...", the one about
> the bugs, several of his short stories, and the one about the martin who
> made films. I have read a few more than that, but I just cannot
> remember the titles at the moment. I was hoping someone might mention a
> book that they fell in love with, like me with "Stranger in a Strange
> Land", and what let me know. I also wanted to know if I should start
> "The Number of the Beast" now or wait until next summer when I am taking
> a break from class. Thank You everyone who wrote back.
> The Sarcastic Geek
>
I completely and utterly fell in love with TMiaHM when I read it first. I
would go with that, as it is lighter fare than NotB. Don't get me wrong,
they're both awesome books, but if you're looking for something a little
lighter, Manny's your man.
BFD!
BFD
">
> I don't consider Burroughs or Oz to be classics of SF. Burroughs is
> nasty hack work, and Oz isn't SF. I can't read Burroughs, not
> interested in reading Oz. He did have an interesting take on the
> Lensman Universe, though; particularly interesting coming from him.
> --
I think he meant it sort of tongue-in-cheek. As in, these were the novels
that at least had a superficial influence on RAH, and as such they should be
studied with the enthusiasm and frenzy that Homer et al enjoy. Can't say
I've ever read any of Burroughs or Oz, so I can't comment on their value,
but if they were good enough for RAH, they're good enough pour moi.
BFD!
Simon Jester US
"Howard Berkowitz" <h...@gettcomm.com> wrote in message
news:hcb-B58DF5.1...@text.giganews.com...
>
>
> Muses on possible resemblance between Deety and Clarissa
Mmm...
Redheads with really big... eyes...
Mmm...
Michael Black
a number of starts before I could get into it. I was fifteen or sixteen,
and I found the slang offputting at first. The book itself is easy
to read, but somehow the first few times I set out to read it, the
slang was too jarring and I put it aside. But like other books that
I have problems getting started, there was a time when I kept at it enough,
until it all smoothed out. I'm not even talking many pages, but just enough.
Maybe it was age, or maybe some element, and I wouldn't have found that
if I'd read it at some other point, this never would have occurred. But
with books that I have the same problem, I find starting to read them
at bedtime is not a good idea. I want to be in a book just before
turning off the light, not just starting it.
Michael
Richard Bensam
(in message <vk5n1bb...@corp.supernews.com>):
> I have read all of the books you have mention plus "The Cat Who Walked
> Through Walls", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "Job...", the one about
> the bugs, several of his short stories, and the one about the martin who
> made films.
Um...Martin Sheen? Martin Scorcese? Martin Short? Steve Martin? Dean
Martin?
(Please forgive me for not resisting the temptation to make that joke. It
was intended in friendly jest and I am very weak. But I honestly wonder what
story you mean; could it be the novel "Double Star" which is about an actor
who travels to Mars?)
> I have read a few more than that, but I just cannot
> remember the titles at the moment. I was hoping someone might mention a
> book that they fell in love with, like me with "Stranger in a Strange
> Land", and what let me know.
If you've read Stranger In A Strange Land and Time Enough For Love and The
Moon Is A Harsh Mistress you're in good shape to approach Number of the Beast
as far as knowing the characters. You might want to supplement your reading
with The Rolling Stones, a lighthearted fun read which will give you still
more background on a character who appears in both Number and The Cat Who
Walks Through Walls. (In other words, you've already met her.)
As has already been noted, Number provides the fundamental basis for the
premise of The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, and will explain how a lot of
those characters came together and what they're up to in the latter book.
You may even want to reread Cat after finishing Number and see how much
clearer the background references become.
(Actually, a complaint I have with Number and Cat and the subsequent To Sail
Beyond the Sunset is that each is best read after the previous books in the
sequence...with references and in-jokes made that simply can't be understood
if you're not reading them in order of publication. I would have been much
happier had Heinlein designed them to be more free-standing. Either that or,
alternately, if they had been published as a discreet series with the volumes
numbered appropriately: "World As Myth Volume 1" et al.
> I also wanted to know if I should start
> "The Number of the Beast" now or wait until next summer when I am taking
> a break from class. Thank You everyone who wrote back.
Wait to read Heinlein? You're a stronger chap than I! If I'd had that kind
of self-restraint, I would have done a *lot* better in school...
Richard Bensam
Simon Jester US
"Michael Black" <et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:bi0jhr$bt1$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
> "
> >
> The book itself is easy
> to read, but somehow the first few times I set out to read it, the
> slang was too jarring and I put it aside.
The slang in TMiaHM and from Clockwork Orange was one reason why I started
studying Russian...
Michael Black
enough to delve into Russian?
Michael
Howard Berkowitz
<simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> wrote:
Y'know, I put down Clockwork Orange, but maybe I should try again.
Finnegan's Wake, however, is probably not a try-again. I even have the
first paragraph memorized.
David Wright
After a short memory check and quick perusal of the book, the number of
Russian words was fairly limited.
Spasibo - Thanks
Bolshoj - big
Bog - God
Bozhe Moi - My God!
Tovarisch - comrade
Lunaya Pravda - _Luna Truth_ (name of newspaper)
Gospodin - Mister or Sir
Nyet - no
Da - yes
Novy Leningrad - New Leningrad (name of warren)
Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya - Means October Revolution, but was referring to a
place.
Stilyagi (not sure about this one. Looks Russian, but never could find
meaning for it)
Gostaneetsa Ukraina - Ukraine Hotel
Pawlnoi Zhizhni - Full Life
s' pokoijninochij nochi - [have] a peaceful night
chai - tea
Anyone recall any others?
RAH's always either translated directly or made the meanings clear through
context as I recall.
David Dyer-Bennet
It probably had something to do with my doing so, too. I dunno, I
didn't *need* another language, but it seemed an interesting thing to
do.
Michael Black
Yes, I'm not sure I could give definitions to all those words,
but I don't think I puzzled over them.
I'm reading the biography of Laura Nyro right now, and discover that
she made up words, including "tendaberry" on her "New York Tendaberry"
album. I laughed, because I never gave the words any thought,
though they were not familiar to me. Somehow in context they made
sense.
I guess good science fiction should be like that. They have to
introduce new terms, but you don't want that cliche of the early
days, when the story stops while someone explains the term or details.
Written properly, you grasp the meaning without having to be lectured.
But, it wasn't the specific words that put me off Harsh Mistress
the first two or three times. There was a different way of speaking.
I can't think of a specific example right now, because having read
it once, and then reread it a bunch of times since, whatever was "nagging"
at me on the first attempts disappeared, so the language has become
familiar. If I had the book handy, it would be different, but I don't.
Michael
jeanette
specialist had never been able to get through Finnigan's Wake.
Jeanette--whose college's English department did not have a reputation.
bookman
> But, it wasn't the specific words that put me off Harsh Mistress
> the first two or three times. There was a different way of speaking.
> I can't think of a specific example right now, because having read
> it once, and then reread it a bunch of times since, whatever was "nagging"
> at me on the first attempts disappeared, so the language has become
> familiar. If I had the book handy, it would be different, but I don't.
Was it the grammar structure, such as it was?
Unless I miss my guess, RAH was casting a "common laguage"
for Luna, using a sort of Super-pidgin in that role. Similar
to Tex-Mex, but more so, because more languages/cultures
were involved at the interface. It bears consideration, anyway.
Regards,
Rusty the bookman
Denny Wheeler
wrote:
>I don't consider Burroughs or Oz to be classics of SF. Burroughs is
>nasty hack work, and Oz isn't SF.
Your opinion. And IMO, your loss. And no, Oz isn't SF--if 'SF' means
'science fiction' rather than 'speculative fiction.' (I prefer the
latter, as you might guess)
Burroughs' Barsoom books clearly are classics of SF (either
definition) in the eyes of most who look at when they were written and
the influence they had.
Simon Jester US
>
> So you could understand the books? Or the slang got you interested
> enough to delve into Russian?
>
The later. I now see "horrorshow" and think "khorosho". I see "spacebaw"
and think "spasee ba". That and the fact that I can swear like a Murmansk
sailer...
*G*
Simon Jester US
"David Wright" <dwri...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:bi1cum$48m62$1...@ID-53646.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> > Anyone recall any others?
>
> RAH's always either translated directly or made the meanings clear through
> context as I recall.
>
It helped that his wife spoke Russian. Some of the transliterations though,
can be confusing when you study the real thing.
Simon Jester US
pronouns and 'little words' are often dropped and assumed to be there.
Reread your post and I'll show you what I mean.
"Michael Black" <et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:bi1gnv$rj5$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
>
> Am reading biography of Laura Nyro right now, and discovered that
> she made up words, including "tendaberry" on "New York Tendaberry"
> album. I laughed, because never gave words any thought,
> though were not familiar to me. Somehow in context, made
> sense.
>
> Am guessing good science fiction should be like that. Have to
> introduce new terms, but don't want that cliche of early
> days, when story stops while someone explains term or details.
> Written properly, one grasps meaning without having to be lectured.
>
> But, it wasn't specific words that put me off Harsh Mistress
> first two or three times. There was a different way of speaking.
> Can't think of a specific example right now, because having read
> once, then reread a bunch of times since, whatever was "nagging"
> on the first attempts disappeared, so language has become
> familiar. If had book handy, would be different, but don't.
Notice a certain stiltedness? We're not used to that in English.
Simon Jester US
> Y'know, I put down Clockwork Orange, but maybe I should try again.
>
> Finnegan's Wake, however, is probably not a try-again. I even have the
> first paragraph memorized.
Trainspotting is in the 'never read again' catagory for me. Horrible,
horrible book. Not badly written, just ery depressing story.
Simon Jester US
"Denny Wheeler" <den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote in message
>
> Burroughs' Barsoom books clearly are classics of SF (either
> definition) in the eyes of most who look at when they were written and
> the influence they had.
Nah, no science in Barsoom stories. Still good stories though. Could have
taken place on Earth, like the Earths Core stories.
David Wright
"Simon Jester US" <simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:toqcnfaFq_h...@wideopenwest.com...
Da. Ya vas ponimayu. Mne fsegda bylo ochen' trudno pisat' s romanskimi
bukvami i ya ochen' chasto oshibayus'.
Fsyo khoroshovo.
David
David Wright
>
>
> Fsyo khoroshovo.
>
I might add that the above points out one of the problems that I have with
transliteration. Does one attempt to transliterate the letters exactly as
possible or use the pronunciation? 'Fsyo khoroshovo' is the pronunciation,
but it is spelled 'fsyo khoroshogo' (more or less). (BTW, Church Slavonic
retains the original 'g' sound)
A couple of years ago, I came across one criticism of TMIAHM on the
internet, where the author blasted RAH for using 'Bog' rather than the
pronounced 'Bok' and so forth.
Howard Berkowitz
et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:
> I guess good science fiction should be like that. They have to
> introduce new terms, but you don't want that cliche of the early
> days, when the story stops while someone explains the term or details.
> Written properly, you grasp the meaning without having to be lectured.
When starting on Tunnel, I went merrily down a blind alley when I
observed that "stobor" was "robots" spelled backwards. Does anyone know
if RAH did this deliberately, or it was a coincidence?
Howard Berkowitz
wo...@webtv.net (jeanette) wrote:
Although other Joyce is challenging but enjoyable. SF note -- James
Blish used a theological analysis of Finnegans Wake in _A Case of
Conscience_. ACoC is right up there with the all-time ethics-oriented SF
novels -- I give #1 to Frank Herbert's _Under Pressure_ (also titled
_The Devil in the Sea_).
Howard Berkowitz
<simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> wrote:
I have a variant, the movie _The Highest Honor_. Classic, classic
tragedy in a WWII context. So gut-wrenching I only watch it every 5-10
years.
Nohbody
<dwri...@alltel.net> wrote:
> "Simon Jester US" <simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:toqcnfaFq_h...@wideopenwest.com...
> > It helped that his wife spoke Russian. Some of the transliterations
> > though, can be confusing when you study the real thing.
>
> Da. Ya vas ponimayu. Mne fsegda bylo ochen' trudno pisat' s romanskimi
> bukvami i ya ochen' chasto oshibayus'.
>
> Fsyo khoroshovo.
Am I the only one whose initial, "snapshot" reaction to reading Mr.
Wright's reply was "that looks ROT-13ed"?
I suppose that variety of geekery beats the other kind often found in
carnival side-shows, though.
--
Dan "Maybe." Poore
ICQ UIN: 3908950 <http://wwp.mirabilis.com/3908950>
A Meeting of Minds <http://nohbody.com/schtuff/meeting.html> - a
(mostly) cliche-free first contact story (updated periodically)
Brett Weiss
(which are still in my bookcase--well worth the read).
--
Brett
"Simon Jester US" <simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:4c6cnfVcNuy...@wideopenwest.com...
> Then again, there are people like me who wouldn't have read the
John Carter
> stories or Grey Lensman WITHOUT the influence of Heinlein.
I've been on a
> mission to read the stuff he read. To give myself an education
in the
> Classics, as it were.
Simon Jester US
> >
> Da. Ya vas ponimayu. Mne fsegda bylo ochen' trudno pisat' s romanskimi
> bukvami i ya ochen' chasto oshibayus'.
>
> Fsyo khoroshovo.
Umm...
"Yes. I understand. I always too much difficult work and romanticised
and I .... Something, something..." Sorry, got too much to do. Am
redoing my office.
Izvehneetsi pazhaloosta. Ya iz baldah Amerikanski. Pamoch.
Simon Jester US
>
> > Fsyo khoroshovo.
> >
>
> I might add that the above points out one of the problems that I have with
> transliteration. Does one attempt to transliterate the letters exactly as
> possible or use the pronunciation? 'Fsyo khoroshovo' is the pronunciation,
> but it is spelled 'fsyo khoroshogo' (more or less). (BTW, Church Slavonic
> retains the original 'g' sound)
>
> A couple of years ago, I came across one criticism of TMIAHM on the
> internet, where the author blasted RAH for using 'Bog' rather than the
> pronounced 'Bok' and so forth.
Yeah, like "How's it going" is transliterated as 'kag dela' instead of
closer to the spelling of 'kak dela'. And wouldn't Fsyo be spelled with the
Russian 'B' but pronounced half way between Vee and Efh?
Denny Wheeler
No *good* science. But as valid as a lot of other 'what if *this*
were the case' type stuff, especially given what ERB may have been
taught when young.
David Wright
>
> "David Wright" <dwri...@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:bi2kov$4gd1u$1...@ID-53646.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > Da. Ya vas ponimayu. Mne fsegda bylo ochen' trudno pisat' s romanskimi
> > bukvami i ya ochen' chasto oshibayus'.
letters and I very often make mistakes. (Probably made a bunch of
grammatical ones here.)
> >
> > Fsyo khoroshovo.
All the best [to you]
(snip)
> Izvehneetsi pazhaloosta. Ya iz baldah Amerikanski. Pamoch.
Scuse Please. I'm from ? American. Help!
Howard Berkowitz
<dwri...@alltel.net> wrote:
> "David Wright" <dwri...@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:bi2kov$4gd1u$1...@ID-53646.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >
> > Fsyo khoroshovo.
> >
>
> I might add that the above points out one of the problems that I have with
> transliteration. Does one attempt to transliterate the letters exactly as
> possible or use the pronunciation? 'Fsyo khoroshovo' is the pronunciation,
> but it is spelled 'fsyo khoroshogo' (more or less). (BTW, Church Slavonic
> retains the original 'g' sound)
I'm certainly not an expert on it, but when I worked at the Library of
Congress, the cataloging librarians had extensive rules for this
(Anglo-American Cataloging Rules) and a 171-character alphabet with
extra diacritical marks. At the level they did it, cataloging is quite a
discipline.
Simon Jester UK
>
> "David Wright" <dwri...@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:bi2l9k$4khrg$1...@ID-53646.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > A couple of years ago, I came across one criticism of TMIAHM on the
> > internet, where the author blasted RAH for using 'Bog' rather than the
> > pronounced 'Bok' and so forth.
>
> Yeah, like "How's it going" is transliterated as 'kag dela' instead of
> closer to the spelling of 'kak dela'. And wouldn't Fsyo be spelled with
the
> Russian 'B' but pronounced half way between Vee and Efh?
This could turn into a Grimm conversation.
David Wright
probably dialects which indeed do voice the final 'k' in 'kak' because of
the voicing of the following 'd' in 'dela'.
For the benefit of non-russian speakers, 'fsyo' is the transliteration of
Cyrillic 'Bce'(all) with the two dots over the 'e', (not to be confused
with 'Bce'(everyone) without the two dots ;-). The 's' sound following the
'V' sound of Cyrillic 'B' turns it into the unvoiced 'f' in pronunciation.
A true transliteration would have written it as 'Vsyo', but I tend to be
sloppy, as I said, in transliteration. (Actually, to be further pedantic,
the 'dela' should be transliterated as 'dyela' because of the palatization
of 'd').
Sorry, If am boring anyone. Don't get a chance to talk linguistics much.
David Dyer-Bennet
No idea, but I remember having noticed it back in the 60s. I suspect
that's where *he* got the word, but that he didn't want it to be where
the word came from *in the book*. (It's never actually explained in
the book). (I happen to be rereading the book right now)
Dr. Rufo
David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> Howard Berkowitz <h...@gettcomm.com> writes:
>
>
>>In article <bi1gnv$rj5$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca>,
>>et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I guess good science fiction should be like that. They have to
>>>introduce new terms, but you don't want that cliche of the early
>>>days, when the story stops while someone explains the term or details.
>>>Written properly, you grasp the meaning without having to be lectured.
>>
>>When starting on Tunnel, I went merrily down a blind alley when I
>>observed that "stobor" was "robots" spelled backwards. Does anyone know
>>if RAH did this deliberately, or it was a coincidence?
>
>
> No idea, but I remember having noticed it back in the 60s. I suspect
> that's where *he* got the word, but that he didn't want it to be where
> the word came from *in the book*. (It's never actually explained in
> the book). (I happen to be rereading the book right now)
Item: When Rod is blissfully "explaining" their situation to the
"fellow" from Florida named Jack, Rod says " 'Stobor' is the bogeyman. "
I always figured RAH was being ironic by allowing Rod be So Wrong About
Everything except that one point.
Item: I also recall the name Tobor from a cheaply-done SF movie of the
early 50s called "Tobor the Great" -- the "robot" from that film was
polished up, (had his serial numbers buffed off), got a new voice
supplied to him and joined the cast of the "Lost In Space" TV series.
Item: I'm reading Will Durant's volume named after J.J. Rouseau and
I've just finished the section on Catherine the Great. There is mention
of a cathedral in St. Petersburg whose first name is "Stobor" I can't
recall the full name of the cathedral and I'd have to drunker'n Cooty
Brown to go after it now 'cause it's about two blocks away in my van. --
BUT perhaps it's famous enough that "someone" who reads Russian --like
David Wright, hint, hint -- could find it referenced on one of the
Russian-language websites that are only a google away ("Cathedrals in
St. Petersburg" -- hint, hint). The name is obviously in Russian so
*I'd* never be able to find it in English translation -- I just tried.
And so to bed,
By the way, d'y'all remember how RAH refers to the "British
establishment" on Mars where the Gay Deceiver's crew visit in NOTB? He
calls it a "Potemkin village" meaning, of course, something put up for a
temporary purpose -- to give an impression of reality. It seems that
Will Durant was of the opinion that the cher Potemkin REALLY HAD made
appreciable advances in the section of territory he'd been governing for
the Tsarina Ekaterina. Durant says the villages were real, occupied and
impressive. He attributes the story of their being mere façades as the
contrivance of a German/Saxon diplomatist who was trying to undermine
Potemkin in the Tsarina's eyes. (The only other places I've seen the
word "diplomatist" are in John Buchan novels and the movie script of
"Casablanca.")
THAT has got to be 30 for now.
Ciao,
Rufe
David Dyer-Bennet
> David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> > Howard Berkowitz <h...@gettcomm.com> writes:
> >
> >> In article <bi1gnv$rj5$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca>,
> >> et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I guess good science fiction should be like that. They have to
> >>>introduce new terms, but you don't want that cliche of the early
> >>>days, when the story stops while someone explains the term or details.
> >>>Written properly, you grasp the meaning without having to be lectured.
> >>
> >> When starting on Tunnel, I went merrily down a blind alley when I
> >> observed that "stobor" was "robots" spelled backwards. Does anyone
> >> know if RAH did this deliberately, or it was a coincidence?
> > No idea, but I remember having noticed it back in the 60s. I suspect
> > that's where *he* got the word, but that he didn't want it to be where
> > the word came from *in the book*. (It's never actually explained in
> > the book). (I happen to be rereading the book right now)
>
> Item: When Rod is blissfully "explaining" their situation to
> the "fellow" from Florida named Jack, Rod says " 'Stobor' is the
> bogeyman. "
> I always figured RAH was being ironic by allowing Rod be So Wrong
> About Everything except that one point.
That's certainly a possibility, and an amusing one.
> Item: I also recall the name Tobor from a cheaply-done SF
> movie of the early 50s called "Tobor the Great" -- the "robot" from
> that film was polished up, (had his serial numbers buffed off), got a
> new voice supplied to him and joined the cast of the "Lost In Space"
> TV series.
>
> Item: I'm reading Will Durant's volume named after J.J. Rouseau and I've just finished the section on Catherine the Great. There is mention of a cathedral in St. Petersburg whose first name is "Stobor" I can't recall the full name of the cathedral and I'd have to drunker'n Cooty Brown to go after it now 'cause it's about two blocks away in my van. --
> BUT perhaps it's famous enough that "someone" who reads Russian --like
> David Wright, hint, hint -- could find it referenced on one of the
> Russian-language websites that are only a google away ("Cathedrals in
> St. Petersburg" -- hint, hint). The name is obviously in Russian so
> *I'd* never be able to find it in English translation -- I just tried.
Interesting. That book would have been before their *trip* to Russia,
but certainly not before they took some interest in it I'd think. So
it could have been borrowed from there, possibly without noticing that
it was also "robots" backwards.
Of course, the man who did the name playing in NOTB probably *would*
have noticed that it was robots backwards anyway.
> And so to bed,
>
>
> By the way, d'y'all remember how RAH refers to the "British
> establishment" on Mars where the Gay Deceiver's crew visit in NOTB? He
> calls it a "Potemkin village" meaning, of course, something put up for
> a temporary purpose -- to give an impression of reality. It seems that
> Will Durant was of the opinion that the cher Potemkin REALLY HAD made
> appreciable advances in the section of territory he'd been governing
> for the Tsarina Ekaterina. Durant says the villages were real,
> occupied and impressive. He attributes the story of their being mere
> façades as the contrivance of a German/Saxon diplomatist who was
> trying to undermine Potemkin in the Tsarina's eyes. (The only other
> places I've seen the word "diplomatist" are in John Buchan novels and
> the movie script of "Casablanca.")
I don't remember, I think I've heard it elsewhere. At least it
doesn't sound completely strange.
Interesting possibility on the "Potemkin villages".
Sean Kennedy
From a post of mine here a couple of years ago:
"Heinlein may have meant it as a deliberate cryptic message or joke,
but the actual text doesn't support it. Rod thought the Dopey Joes
were the stobor, but Matson says "I suppose these must be stobor....
but I didn't know what they looked like". He goes on about
personifying the unknown unique dangers of any planet, and how they do
it differently each year to "plant it deep in your guts instead of
your head." What may have been called stobor one year could easily be
called swollip the next, and Matson wouldn't care which. There were no
robots on Tangaroa, so no cryptic warning to the students (or the
reader) about them was necessary. Also, none of the characters ever
said "Hey! Stobor spelt backwards is "robots"! We better watch out for
them." But I equally find it difficult to believe that Heinlein could
have overlooked the obvious connection, which so many readers seem to
have spotted after just one or two readings. Who knows? Maybe he just
liked sound of the name?"
To further answer your question, apparently VH advised that RAH was
not aware of the backward spelling of Stobor at his time of writing,
and was only made aware of this at a later date.
HTH
Sean
(Stobor V. Robots)
Chris Zakes
<dwri...@alltel.net> wrote:
(major snippery)
>Stilyagi (not sure about this one. Looks Russian, but never could find
>meaning for it)
IIRC from previous discussions, it means (more-or-less) "teenagers"
with a suggestion of "hooligans" or "hoodlums".
My eldest daughter was the only female in her high school games club
(mostly fantasy role-playing and computer games.) In her senior year
she ended up as the president of the club, and I tend to refer to the
boys in the club as her stilyagi.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
Have you ever noticed how much "political correctness" resembles
a complete lack of a sense of humor?
David Wright
"Dr. Rufo" <bay...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3F45ADCA...@mindspring.com...
>
>
(snip)
> Item: I'm reading Will Durant's volume named after J.J. Rouseau and
> I've just finished the section on Catherine the Great. There is mention
> of a cathedral in St. Petersburg whose first name is "Stobor" I can't
> recall the full name of the cathedral and I'd have to drunker'n Cooty
> Brown to go after it now 'cause it's about two blocks away in my van. --
> BUT perhaps it's famous enough that "someone" who reads Russian --like
> David Wright, hint, hint -- could find it referenced on one of the
> Russian-language websites that are only a google away ("Cathedrals in
> St. Petersburg" -- hint, hint). The name is obviously in Russian so
> *I'd* never be able to find it in English translation -- I just tried.
>
(snip)
I have looked over all of the prominent cathedrals in Saint Petersburg and
cannot find anything matching what you said.
The cathedrals are:
The Smolny Cathedral,
The Kazan Cathedral
Saint Isaac's Cathedral
The Nikolskij Cathedral
Non cathedral churches are:
The Church of Christ's Resurrection
The Cesme Church
and the monastery assemblage:
The Alexander Nevskij Lavra. Part of this includes a Holy Trinity Cathedral
I couldn't find any Russian word 'stobor' or 'tobor'. The phrase 's toboj'
(with thee) exists and could conceivably be part of a cathedral (xhram)
name, but I am not familiar with any. The phrase 's vami' (with you [all])
is more commonly used in liturgy and prayers unless one is refering to God,
who, like other languages, is referred to in the familiar singular form.
The only thing that I saw that might be what you are referring to was that
Holy Trinity Cathedral was build by an architect named 'Starov'.
Simon Jester US
> > Non cathedral churches are:
> The Cesme Church
Is that the one on Cesme Street?
> I couldn't find any Russian word 'stobor' or 'tobor'. The phrase 's toboj'
> (with thee) exists and could conceivably be part of a cathedral (xhram)
> name, but I am not familiar with any. The phrase 's vami' (with you [all])
> is more commonly used in liturgy and prayers unless one is refering to
God,
> who, like other languages, is referred to in the familiar singular form.
It could mean 'The Hundred Wood' like a small forest. Then again, the
dictionary I have sucks. They don't even have Oktaybr in there...
Simon Jester US
>
> For the benefit of non-russian speakers, 'fsyo' is the transliteration of
> Cyrillic 'Bce'(all) with the two dots over the 'e', (not to be confused
> with 'Bce'(everyone) without the two dots ;-). The 's' sound following the
> 'V' sound of Cyrillic 'B' turns it into the unvoiced 'f' in pronunciation.
> A true transliteration would have written it as 'Vsyo', but I tend to be
> sloppy, as I said, in transliteration. (Actually, to be further pedantic,
> the 'dela' should be transliterated as 'dyela' because of the palatization
> of 'd').
I've always had trouble with the 'ts' letter. Tzar is a hard word to say in
the Russian way. But that okay, we get revenge with our 'th' words...
Simon Jester US
"Simon Jester UK" <simon...@byespam.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:106150665...@demeter.uk.clara.net...
Oh, knock it off you fairy...
Simon Jester US
>
> > Izvehneetsi pazhaloosta. Ya iz baldah Amerikanski. Pamoch.
> Scuse Please. I'm from ? American. Help!
Baldah = crazy/stupid...
*G*
David Wright
Just ask all those people who are saying 'thats amore' on another thread.
the 'ts' in that phrase is exactly it. just leave off the 'tha' and start
with 't samore' ;-)
David Wright
Tha 'ts' a new one on me. I would use sumashedshij (crazy) or 'glupij'
(stuipid). (I love 'glupij'!) "Hang on Glupij, Hango on" ;-)
Howard Berkowitz
<simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> wrote:
Leading to the observation that the children of the Royal Family were
Tsardines.
William Hughes
<bay...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Item: I also recall the name Tobor from a cheaply-done SF movie of the
> early 50s called "Tobor the Great" -- the "robot" from that film was
> polished up, (had his serial numbers buffed off), got a new voice
> supplied to him and joined the cast of the "Lost In Space" TV series.
ISTR an animated (cartoon) series about that time with a shape-changing robot
called "Tobor".
RB
Simon Jester US
> >
> Leading to the observation that the children of the Royal Family were
> Tsardines.
You deserve a swift kick in the can for that one...
Simon Jester US
>
> Baldah = crazy/stupid...
> >
>
> Tha 'ts' a new one on me. I would use sumashedshij (crazy) or 'glupij'
> (stuipid). (I love 'glupij'!) "Hang on Glupij, Hango on" ;-)
Well, it doesn't help that I learned it froma Bulgarian who taught
Russian... *S*
She turned red when she said 'bad words' like Darn!
And what about bozemoi?
David Wright
>
> "David Wright" <dwri...@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:bi5a6m$5d890$1...@ID-53646.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > Baldah = crazy/stupid...
> > >
> >
> > Tha 'ts' a new one on me. I would use sumashedshij (crazy) or 'glupij'
> > (stuipid). (I love 'glupij'!) "Hang on Glupij, Hango on" ;-)
>
> Well, it doesn't help that I learned it froma Bulgarian who taught
> Russian... *S*
Baldah might be a Bulgarian usage. As I said I found nothing like it in my
dictionary.
> She turned red when she said 'bad words' like Darn!
One of my Russian teachers told us that Russian didn't have profanity. Boy
was he wrong. One of the first things that we had to study when we got to
our duty station was a 'Dictionary of Russian Profanity'. It was about 30
pages of some of the roughtest language I had ever seen or heard. There were
a number of really dirty limericks, only one of which I still remember. A
favorite phrase which I remember translated roughly as 'Things are in a mess
here, much like being in a whore house during an earthquake and a fire'.
>
> And what about bozemoi?
What about it? (Bozhe moi) My God. I suspect, but don't know, that it is
roughly equivalent in connotative content to the English 'Oh, my God' or 'O
Lord' used as expression of surprise or maybe disgust about something. Would
depend on how it is said. Did you have something else in mind? 'Slava
Bogu'(Glory to God) is another common phrase used, even during Communistic
days as I understand it, much like we use 'Thank Goodness', which
etymologically is identical, IIRC.
David Wright
>
By the way. If you are interested in practicing Russian by listening to the
radio, you can download transmissions from: ftp://realaudio.rferl.org/ch4/
This requires quite a bit of bandwidth since each program is about 7.5 mb.
It requires Real Radio to work and you can also listen live to them, without
downloading the whole file, using Real Radio by searching for Russian and
selecting Radio Liberty (Radio Svoboda).
Tony
when the show was cancelled, B-9 did go on to appear in bit parts and
cameos for a few years. And he NEVER was the same robot as "Robbie the
Robot" from "Forbidden Planet.
Dr. Rufo
I thank you for your effort, sir. Since last evening I have retrieved
the volume from my van and looked up the church cited. I find that my
memory was faulty/partial. I remembered the wrong word. The name is/was
the "Ouspenski Sobor." It is referred to by Durant as "the cathedral in
which Catherine officially became a member of the Russian Orthodox Church."
Once again, I thank you for your help and I apologize for the wasting
of your time.
Pax,
Rufe
pixelmeow
<thebo...@kc.rr.comNULL> scribbled:
>
>"Michael Black" <et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
>news:bi1gnv$rj5$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
>
>> But, it wasn't the specific words that put me off Harsh Mistress
>> the first two or three times. There was a different way of speaking.
>> I can't think of a specific example right now, because having read
>> it once, and then reread it a bunch of times since, whatever was "nagging"
>> at me on the first attempts disappeared, so the language has become
>> familiar. If I had the book handy, it would be different, but I don't.
>
>Was it the grammar structure, such as it was?
>
>Unless I miss my guess, RAH was casting a "common laguage"
>for Luna, using a sort of Super-pidgin in that role. Similar
>to Tex-Mex, but more so, because more languages/cultures
>were involved at the interface. It bears consideration, anyway.
What I remember is missing words: was not having "the" or similar sort
of words, and remember thinking "is sort of difficult reading for
first time" but also remember liking much. Man who thought he could
touch woman figured it out with help of (may be misremembering)
stilyagi, that he may NOT just do some things, and while reading I
figured out some words mean some things, and lack of some words made
sense. Don't know why, just felt right. Like much about that book,
felt right.
Okay, sorry if the above is a bunch of mess, but that's how I remember
Moon. ;-)
--
~teresa~
AFH Barwench
^..^ "Never try to outstubborn a cat." Robert A. Heinlein ^..^
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/ http://pixelmeow.com/
http://pixelmeow.com/Book_Exchange/index.htm
http://pixelmeow.com/forum/
aim: pixelmeow msn:pixe...@passport.com
pixelmeow
US" <simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> scribbled:
>It was probably that Manny spoke in more of a Russian fashion. In Russian,
>pronouns and 'little words' are often dropped and assumed to be there.
>Reread your post and I'll show you what I mean.
>
>"Michael Black" <et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
>news:bi1gnv$rj5$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
>>
>> Am reading biography of Laura Nyro right now, and discovered that
>> she made up words, including "tendaberry" on "New York Tendaberry"
>> album. I laughed, because never gave words any thought,
>> though were not familiar to me. Somehow in context, made
>> sense.
>>
>> Am guessing good science fiction should be like that. Have to
>> introduce new terms, but don't want that cliche of early
>> days, when story stops while someone explains term or details.
>> Written properly, one grasps meaning without having to be lectured.
>>
>> But, it wasn't specific words that put me off Harsh Mistress
>> first two or three times. There was a different way of speaking.
>> Can't think of a specific example right now, because having read
>> once, then reread a bunch of times since, whatever was "nagging"
>> on the first attempts disappeared, so language has become
>> familiar. If had book handy, would be different, but don't.
>
>Notice a certain stiltedness? We're not used to that in English.
Should have read your post first. Am reminded of how many times I
have said that other spoke (or wrote) better than I.
pixelmeow
US" <simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> scribbled:
>
*winds up right leg for a swift one*...
I don't believe I've had the honor, O USian Simon, but what'll ya
have? I'm having Merlot, Southeastern AU, forget the label; as if you
couldn't tell I'm tanked right now...
Simon Jester UK
> In article <2u6cnQJq1tJ...@wideopenwest.com>, "Simon Jester US"
> <simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I've always had trouble with the 'ts' letter. Tzar is a hard word to
say
> > in
> > the Russian way. But that okay, we get revenge with our 'th' words...
> >
> >
>
> Leading to the observation that the children of the Royal Family were
> Tsardines.
Pardon? I'm a little hard of herring...
Christopher A. Bohn
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Simon Jester UK wrote:
> Howard Berkowitz wrote:
> >
> > Leading to the observation that the children of the Royal Family were
> > Tsardines.
>
> Pardon? I'm a little hard of herring...
Barry, couldya tuna his earpiece? My tools are around here somewhere --
I'll just follow minnows.
Take care,
cb
--
Christopher A. Bohn ____________|____________
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~bohn/ ' ** ** " (o) " ** ** '
"Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"
- Appius Claudius (the Blind), Roman Senate
David Wright
>
(snip)
>
> I thank you for your effort, sir. Since last evening I have retrieved
> the volume from my van and looked up the church cited. I find that my
> memory was faulty/partial. I remembered the wrong word. The name is/was
> the "Ouspenski Sobor." It is referred to by Durant as "the cathedral in
> which Catherine officially became a member of the Russian Orthodox
Church."
> Once again, I thank you for your help and I apologize for the wasting
> of your time.
>
Not at all, because I learn something every time. Not only did I get a
chance to see some beautiful Orthodox churches, but I also found that I
mistranslated the word 'khram'. That means 'temple'. 'Sobor' is the correct
word for 'cathedral'. (In America, at least, it is also used to designate a
grand council meeting).
However, I still couldn't find any Uspenski Sobor in Saint Petersburg. There
are many Uspenski Sobors, (also called Church of the Dormition or Church of
the Assumption.), and probably the most famous one is the one which is part
of the Kremlin complex in Moscow itself.
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~powellm/cathedrals.html
Simon Jester US
"pixelmeow" <NJZLIR...@spammotel.com> wrote in message
news:aeeb7fd94fad1816...@news.teranews.com...
> > >> Leading to the observation that the children of the Royal Family were
> >> Tsardines.
> >
> >You deserve a swift kick in the can for that one...
> >
>
> *winds up right leg for a swift one*...
Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you are 'tanked' but that
was a fairly good pun you just mishandled. Or a fairly bad one. I can
never tell...
> I don't believe I've had the honor, O USian Simon, but what'll ya
> have? I'm having Merlot, Southeastern AU, forget the label; as if you
> couldn't tell I'm tanked right now...
Well, on the rare occasion that I do drink, it might be some Parrot Bay Rum
in a tall glass of orange and pinapple juice, or Woodchuck AHard Cider, or
warm McEwans Ale. or some of that cheap bubbly wine that my wife likes.
Can't remember the name of it, but you can get it in a two liter plastic jug
with a twist top. Real classy....
Simon Jester US
"Christopher A. Bohn" <bo...@lambda.cis.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.40.030823...@lambda.cis.ohio-state.edu...
> > Pardon? I'm a little hard of herring...
>
> Barry, couldya tuna his earpiece? My tools are around here somewhere --
> I'll just follow minnows.
While I was changing, my ear piece fell into my shorts. Guess that makes it
my codpiece. It's not doing any harm there, so I'll just leave it there for
the halibut. But if it gets bad, I can always go to the Hospital and have
the sturgeon remove it...
Christopher A. Bohn
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Simon Jester US wrote:
> "Christopher A. Bohn" <bo...@lambda.cis.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> > > Pardon? I'm a little hard of herring...
> >
> > Barry, couldya tuna his earpiece? My tools are around here somewhere --
> > I'll just follow minnows.
>
> While I was changing, my ear piece fell into my shorts. Guess that makes it
> my codpiece. It's not doing any harm there, so I'll just leave it there for
> the halibut. But if it gets bad, I can always go to the Hospital and have
> the sturgeon remove it...
I'm sure the nurse (shark) would help. You're such a clown (fish). I'm
glad we're friends and not anemones.
I guess a couple of those puns were clumsy, but I houldn't kelp it.
Simon Jester US
>
> Baldah might be a Bulgarian usage. As I said I found nothing like it in my
> dictionary.
I've got a book on 'real' Russian. It's titled Dermo! The Russian Tolstoy
Never Used. Great reference book Has an entire chapter on The F Word and a
chapter on how to fire a seven layered insult. Swearing in Russian is
fun...
> One of my Russian teachers told us that Russian didn't have profanity. Boy
> was he wrong. One of the first things that we had to study when we got to
> our duty station was a 'Dictionary of Russian Profanity'. It was about 30
> pages of some of the roughtest language I had ever seen or heard. There
were
> a number of really dirty limericks, only one of which I still remember. A
> favorite phrase which I remember translated roughly as 'Things are in a
mess
> here, much like being in a whore house during an earthquake and a fire'.
Man, I won't even attempt to write my favorite Russian curse. But I'll tell
you it at TorCon if we see each other.. *G*
> > And what about bozemoi?
>
> What about it? (Bozhe moi) My God. I suspect, but don't know, that it is
> roughly equivalent in connotative content to the English 'Oh, my God' or
'O
> Lord' used as expression of surprise or maybe disgust about something.
Would
> depend on how it is said. Did you have something else in mind? 'Slava
> Bogu'(Glory to God) is another common phrase used, even during Communistic
> days as I understand it, much like we use 'Thank Goodness', which
> etymologically is identical, IIRC.
It might be more like bezoomii. Again with the problems of
transliterations. I'll look it up in my swear words dictionary and see how
they spell it. It basically means crazy.
Howard Berkowitz
pixelmeow <NJZLIR...@spammotel.com> wrote:
OTOH, it was good preparation for being the technical/development editor
for a technically knowledgeable author born in Russia.
Walter Bushell
> Good morning,
>
> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Simon Jester UK wrote:
>
> > Howard Berkowitz wrote:
> > >
> > > Leading to the observation that the children of the Royal Family were
> > > Tsardines.
> >
> > Pardon? I'm a little hard of herring...
>
> Barry, couldya tuna his earpiece? My tools are around here somewhere --
> I'll just follow minnows.
>
> Take care,
> cb
Hey, its not everyone who can tune a fish.
--
The last temptation is the highest treason:
To do the right thing for the wrong reason. --T..S. Eliot
Walter
Walter Bushell
> One of my college English professors said that the James Joyce
> specialist had never been able to get through Finnigan's Wake.
>
> Jeanette--whose college's English department did not have a reputation.
With that kind of scholarship it should have a reputation.
Walter Bushell
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:25:06 -0400, The Sarcastic Geek wrote
> (in message <vk5n1bb...@corp.supernews.com>):
>
> > I have read all of the books you have mention plus "The Cat Who Walked
> > Through Walls", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "Job...", the one about
> > the bugs, several of his short stories, and the one about the martin who
> > made films.
>
> Um...Martin Sheen? Martin Scorcese? Martin Short? Steve Martin? Dean
> Martin?
>
> (Please forgive me for not resisting the temptation to make that joke. It
> was intended in friendly jest and I am very weak. But I honestly wonder what
> story you mean; could it be the novel "Double Star" which is about an actor
> who travels to Mars?)
>
Well he was a martian
David Wright
David Wright
>
(snip)
Oops. Sorry. Sent one without actually replying.
> It might be more like bezoomii. Again with the problems of
> transliterations. I'll look it up in my swear words dictionary and see
how
> they spell it. It basically means crazy.
>
Yes. 'bez umnij' (literally without mind)
bookman
"Christopher A. Bohn" <bo...@lambda.cis.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.40.030823...@lambda.cis.ohio-state.edu...
> Good morning,
>
> On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Simon Jester US wrote:
>
> > "Christopher A. Bohn" <bo...@lambda.cis.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> > > > Pardon? I'm a little hard of herring...
> > >
> > > Barry, couldya tuna his earpiece? My tools are around here
somewhere --
> > > I'll just follow minnows.
> >
> > While I was changing, my ear piece fell into my shorts. Guess that
makes it
> > my codpiece. It's not doing any harm there, so I'll just leave it there
for
> > the halibut. But if it gets bad, I can always go to the Hospital and
have
> > the sturgeon remove it...
>
> I'm sure the nurse (shark) would help. You're such a clown (fish). I'm
> glad we're friends and not anemones.
>
> I guess a couple of those puns were clumsy, but I houldn't kelp it.
Yeah, that was kinda clumsy - are you one of
Jerry's squids? I shouldn't talk like that, you're
probably fit to be tide, now Don't be a crab, Okay?
I'll clam up for the nonce...
<G>
Rtb
Dr. Rufo
David Wright wrote:
<snip>
>
> However, I still couldn't find any Uspenski Sobor in Saint Petersburg. There
> are many Uspenski Sobors, (also called Church of the Dormition or Church of
> the Assumption.), and probably the most famous one is the one which is part
> of the Kremlin complex in Moscow itself.
> http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~powellm/cathedrals.html
If you don't mind, I'd like to solicit some more information from you.
I firmly believe that you, as a qualified "living source," will be far
superior to any sort of text-book reference I can find to improve my
comprehension:
As I understand it, the Feast of the Dormition (the "Falling Asleep")
of the Blessed Virgin is celebrated in the Eastern Church's kalendar on
August 15. The same day is marked on the Western calendar as the Feast
of the Assumption (being taken "bodily" into Heaven) of the Blessed Virgin.
Both Feast days celebrate basically the same concept: The Mother of
God/Theotokos was miraculously preserved from bodily decay through a
direct intervention of the Deity. The individual emphases vary. The
doctrine of the Assumption has the Blessed Mother in Heaven *now* while
that of the Dormition has Our Lady Asleep until the Parousia.
1. When you say
>There are many Uspenski Sobors, (also called Church of the Dormition
or >Church of the Assumption.)
do you mean
a. the names -- in Russian -- are the same?
b. the churches are "generically" dedicated to the Blessed Virgin? As in
"Notre Dame" = "Our Lady" versus "Our Lady of Walsingham" or "Our Lady
of Lourdes" or
c. something else?
2. Have I got the right of this Dormition feast day?
3. Is there a location specified in Eastern tradition/dogma for the
sleeping body of the Blessed Virgin?
Thanks for your help.
Rufe
David Wright
>
>
> David Wright wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > However, I still couldn't find any Uspenski Sobor in Saint Petersburg.
There
> > are many Uspenski Sobors, (also called Church of the Dormition or Church
of
> > the Assumption.), and probably the most famous one is the one which is
part
> > of the Kremlin complex in Moscow itself.
> > http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~powellm/cathedrals.html
>
> If you don't mind, I'd like to solicit some more information from you.
> I firmly believe that you, as a qualified "living source," will be far
> superior to any sort of text-book reference I can find to improve my
> comprehension:
> As I understand it, the Feast of the Dormition (the "Falling Asleep")
> of the Blessed Virgin is celebrated in the Eastern Church's kalendar on
> August 15. The same day is marked on the Western calendar as the Feast
> of the Assumption (being taken "bodily" into Heaven) of the Blessed
Virgin.
> Both Feast days celebrate basically the same concept: The Mother of
> God/Theotokos was miraculously preserved from bodily decay through a
> direct intervention of the Deity. The individual emphases vary. The
> doctrine of the Assumption has the Blessed Mother in Heaven *now* while
> that of the Dormition has Our Lady Asleep until the Parousia.
Not quite: (quoted from
http://www.goarch.org/en/special/listen_learn_share/dormition/learn/)
"The Feast of the Dormition of Our Most Holy Lady, the Theotokos and
Ever-Virgin Mary is celebrated on August 15 each year. The Feast
commemorates the repose (dormition and in the Greek kimisis) or
"falling-asleep" of the Mother of Jesus Christ, our Lord. The Feast also
commemorates the translation or assumption into heaven of the body of the
Theotokos."
..... (and further on)
"This great Feast of the Church and the icon celebrates a fundamental
teaching of our faith-the Resurrection of the body."
> 1. When you say
> >There are many Uspenski Sobors, (also called Church of the Dormition
> or >Church of the Assumption.)
> do you mean
> a. the names -- in Russian -- are the same?
I'm not quite sure about this one. These are all called 'Uspenskij Sobor'.
Now, Uspenskij is a common Russian name, but I don't know what the word
itself means. I'll check with my priest. The Cathedrals of the
Dormition/Assumption that I came across in Russian all say 'Uspenskij
Sobor'. (of course, that was what I was searching for).
> b. the churches are "generically" dedicated to the Blessed Virgin? As in
> "Notre Dame" = "Our Lady" versus "Our Lady of Walsingham" or "Our Lady
> of Lourdes" or
> c. something else?
Most Orthodox churches dedicated in this way actually say something like
that. For example, my own church is named after the Theotokos as the 'Joy of
all Who Sorrow'.
>
> 2. Have I got the right of this Dormition feast day?
Correct, except that the actual day of the year is different depending on
whether one goes by the old (Julian) calendar or the new (Gregorian)
calendar. About 80% of Orthodoxy remain on the old calendar as a liturgical
calendar for church purposes.
>
> 3. Is there a location specified in Eastern tradition/dogma for the
> sleeping body of the Blessed Virgin?
No, because it was resurrected.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
You are welcome.
David W.
Sarcastic Prophet
my mail server for that account is not responding well at the moment.
Richard Bensam wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:25:06 -0400, The Sarcastic Geek wrote
> (in message <vk5n1bb...@corp.supernews.com>):
>
>
>>I have read all of the books you have mention plus "The Cat Who Walked
>>Through Walls", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "Job...", the one about
>>the bugs, several of his short stories, and the one about the martin who
>>made films.
>
>
> Um...Martin Sheen? Martin Scorcese? Martin Short? Steve Martin? Dean
> Martin?
>
> (Please forgive me for not resisting the temptation to make that joke. It
> was intended in friendly jest and I am very weak. But I honestly wonder what
> story you mean; could it be the novel "Double Star" which is about an actor
> who travels to Mars?)
>
The book is was refering to is "The Heaven Makers" by Frank Herbert. My
husband has been handing books left and right to read, so I sort of get
confused at who wrote what. It seems, though, I have desire to read
everything I can from Hienlein and Herbert (for the time being). My
husband is now trying me with Steven Burst too.
(Lucky guy ended up falling in love with a woman who enjoys book and D&D
as much as he does.)
>>I also wanted to know if I should start
>>"The Number of the Beast" now or wait until next summer when I am taking
>>a break from class. Thank You everyone who wrote back.
>
>
> Wait to read Heinlein? You're a stronger chap than I! If I'd had that kind
> of self-restraint, I would have done a *lot* better in school...
Self-restraint I do not have; however, I need something to read before I
go to bed, so I can sleep.
>
> Richard Bensam
>
I am still The Sarcastic Geek
pixelmeow
US" <simonje...@spambait.hotmail.com> scribbled:
>
>"pixelmeow" <NJZLIR...@spammotel.com> wrote in message
>news:aeeb7fd94fad1816...@news.teranews.com...
>> > >> Leading to the observation that the children of the Royal Family were
>> >> Tsardines.
>> >
>> >You deserve a swift kick in the can for that one...
>> >
>>
>> *winds up right leg for a swift one*...
>
>Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you are 'tanked' but that
>was a fairly good pun you just mishandled. Or a fairly bad one. I can
>never tell...
Maybe you don't know that I'm blonde... but at any rate, I was just
taking it my own direction, which can confuse others just as much as
me. ;-)
>> I don't believe I've had the honor, O USian Simon, but what'll ya
>> have? I'm having Merlot, Southeastern AU, forget the label; as if you
>> couldn't tell I'm tanked right now...
>
>Well, on the rare occasion that I do drink, it might be some Parrot Bay Rum
>in a tall glass of orange and pinapple juice, or Woodchuck AHard Cider, or
>warm McEwans Ale. or some of that cheap bubbly wine that my wife likes.
>Can't remember the name of it, but you can get it in a two liter plastic jug
>with a twist top. Real classy....
--->>>slide--->>> there you go. (not having anything myself,
tonight, last night was quite enough thankyouvermuch...)
Dr. Rufo
Once again, Thank you for your assistance.
Rufe
Kullervo Nurmi
>
>However, I still couldn't find any Uspenski Sobor in Saint Petersburg. There
>are many Uspenski Sobors, (also called Church of the Dormition or Church of
>the Assumption.), and probably the most famous one is the one which is part
>of the Kremlin complex in Moscow itself.
>http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~powellm/cathedrals.html
We have one in Helsinki, too; this URL
http://www.muuka.com/finnishpumpkin/churches/helsinki/chush/church_chush.html
has fact & pics about it.
Kultsi
---
The space below is reserved for the .sig of
kullervo dot nurmi at pp dot inet dot fi
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/kultsi/
No parking allowed. Spammers will promptly end up in bit bucket.
---
David Wright
Kullervo Nurmi <kultsi....@pp.inet.fi> wrote in message
news:75Y1b.11$yu...@read3.inet.fi...
> "David Wright" <dwri...@alltel.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >However, I still couldn't find any Uspenski Sobor in Saint Petersburg.
There
> >are many Uspenski Sobors, (also called Church of the Dormition or Church
of
> >the Assumption.), and probably the most famous one is the one which is
part
> >of the Kremlin complex in Moscow itself.
> >http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~powellm/cathedrals.html
>
> We have one in Helsinki, too; this URL
>
http://www.muuka.com/finnishpumpkin/churches/helsinki/chush/church_chush.htm
l
> has fact & pics about it.
>
> Kultsi
Thanks Kultsi. That has an absolutely beautiful iconostas, but I am sure
that I wouldn't want the job of having to light all those candles on top of
it, if that is what they are. Looks like they might be electric now.
David W.
David Wright
>
>
> David Wright wrote:
> > Dr. Rufo <bay...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F47E94...@mindspring.com...
(snip)
> >
> >
> > I'm not quite sure about this one. These are all called 'Uspenskij
Sobor'.
> > Now, Uspenskij is a common Russian name, but I don't know what the word
> > itself means. I'll check with my priest. The Cathedrals of the
> > Dormition/Assumption that I came across in Russian all say 'Uspenskij
> > Sobor'. (of course, that was what I was searching for).
Finally found my good Russian Dictionary. The base word is 'Uspeniye'
(decease) and 'uspenski' means (of the decease). Apparently, that is a
general word, but it may have come to be closely associated with the
Theotokos, as in 'Uspeniye Presvyatiya Bogoroditsi',[Russian for the Greek
word Theotokos], (decease of the Holy God-Bearer) and 'uspenski' then became
a specific term for the Dormition/Assumption.
--
David Wright
Dr. Rufo
David Wright wrote:
> "Dr. Rufo" <bay...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3F483978...@mindspring.com...
>
>>
>>David Wright wrote:
>>
>>>Dr. Rufo <bay...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>news:3F47E94...@mindspring.com...
>>
>
> (snip)
>
>
>>>
>>>I'm not quite sure about this one. These are all called 'Uspenskij
>>
> Sobor'.
>
>>>Now, Uspenskij is a common Russian name, but I don't know what the word
>>>itself means. I'll check with my priest. The Cathedrals of the
>>>Dormition/Assumption that I came across in Russian all say 'Uspenskij
>>>Sobor'. (of course, that was what I was searching for).
>>
>
> Finally found my good Russian Dictionary. The base word is 'Uspeniye'
> (decease) and 'uspenski' means (of the decease). Apparently, that is a
> general word, but it may have come to be closely associated with the
> Theotokos, as in 'Uspeniye Presvyatiya Bogoroditsi',[Russian for the Greek
> word Theotokos], (decease of the Holy God-Bearer) and 'uspenski' then became
> a specific term for the Dormition/Assumption.
Persistence, as they say, pays off. Thank you for your efforts.
Rufe
(Watch out for the stobor!)
David Wright
>
(snip)
> > Finally found my good Russian Dictionary. The base word is 'Uspeniye'
> > (decease) and 'uspenski' means (of the decease). Apparently, that is a
> > general word, but it may have come to be closely associated with the
> > Theotokos, as in 'Uspeniye Presvyatiya Bogoroditsi',[Russian for the
Greek
> > word Theotokos], (decease of the Holy God-Bearer) and 'uspenski' then
became
> > a specific term for the Dormition/Assumption.
>
> Persistence, as they say, pays off. Thank you for your efforts.
>
You are quite welcome. As I said, I always learn something.
Tokay Pino Gris
The Sarcastic Geek schrieb:
<snip>
> and I am about to start on existentialism. I am trying to find a book
> to read before bed that will replace "The Children of the Dune".
<snip>
Just returned from my holidays, otherwise I would have written something
to that earlier.
At least for my, no Heinlein book whatsoever is anything I can read
before bed. Not one. (Ah well, maybe the the only one I did not like)
Problem is, once I start, I cannot finish. No way. I have to read it
through. And once I am finished, I am so hooked, that I pick up another
one from the shelf. Till my eyes get blurry and I fall asleep with my
nose pressed to the pages (This is usually about one hour after
sunrise), so I can read that page again next day in the mirror.....
So, while it's great reading, I cannot recommend them for bedtime reading.
But that might be just me.
Tokay
BPRAL22169
light bedtime reading, you can try BEING AND NOTHINGNESS by J.P. Sartre.
Bill
Tokay Pino Gris
BPRAL22169 schrieb:
> Okay, Sarcastic Geek: if you want a book to replace "Chidlren of Dune" for
> light bedtime reading, you can try BEING AND NOTHINGNESS by J.P. Sartre.
> Bill
>
Sorry. I forgot the smilie after my post.
Here it is
:-)
And apart from that, while I could put away "Children of Dune" a little
easier than "The Number of the Beast" (not much, that is to say. Took me
three days), the second book ("Der Herr des Wüstenplaneten" in german,
might be "Lord of Dune" or some such. Still trying to scrape the money
together to get them all in english and read them again) was of almost
the same sleep depriving quality to read as the Heinlein books.
Luckily it is a little thinner than the others, so I finished it just in
time to get to work.
Never tried Sartre. But tried Hobbes and Machiavelli. Perfect bedtime
reading. Puts me to sleep in no time. (For all of me, they could leave
the second half of "Il Principe" blank, because I never got that far.
Have to try again sometime, once I finish all the other books piling up
on my still-to-read list. And those are even more boring. But can't be
helped.)
"Sarcastic geek". Mhm. Sarcastic, ok. Geek, well. Come to think of it, I
am. Not a good geek, mind you, just your usual computer freak. Learning
the how-to while trying to get some games to work on a computer not
build for them.
So it hits the spot pretty well.
:-)
Tokay
BPRAL22169
Being and Nothingness has a real soporific quality; the language is difficult
and, unlike Hegel or Kierkegaard, there isn't all that much there once you
untangle the sentences. I read it thirty years ago, and I can only remember
one sentence from it: "Being is a worm at the heart of Nothingness."
Bill
Simon Jester UK
>
>
> BPRAL22169 schrieb:
> > Okay, Sarcastic Geek:
> "Sarcastic geek". Mhm. Sarcastic, ok. Geek, well. Come to think of it, I
> am. Not a good geek, mind you, just your usual computer freak. Learning
> the how-to while trying to get some games to work on a computer not
> build for them.
> So it hits the spot pretty well.
>
> :-)
Although Bill's post appeared under yours, Tokay, I think he was actually
replying to the original post on this thread - which was posted by someone
using the name "The Sarcastic Geek".