my history teacher doesn't like harry potter
CiNnaMoN BoMb 3
gave us a lecture on "the evils of harry potter"... i couldn't resist but to
share it with this NG.
Heres pretty much the jist of it: she just kept blabbing about how he is
anti-christian and is going to corrupt our youth. she was talking about some
book burning in another state and how she wanted to have one here. how she's
trying to get our school library to get rid of the harry potter books. and she
was citing examples from the text ...all of course TOTALLY out of context. she
was like encouraging us to accept god and ** "becoming a witch won't make you
cool" ** and yea, it was just stupid, imo! it's really starting to make me mad
because she has always made it clear to us her despisal of harry potter but
this is the first time she basically devoted an ENTIRE class to lecturing us
about how we shouldn't go see this movie because tha'ts only giving money to
the devil. one of the most unbelievable quotes was something like this: "i will
be very dissapointed if i EVER see one of you kids reading the harry potter
books again"
so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a christian, isn't
he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan... he
didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
Doug
>
> so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a christian, isn't
> he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan... he
> didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
I do not think you have to believe in anything to become a
wizard/witch.
thompson
On 15 Nov 2002 21:47:42 GMT, cinnam...@aol.com (CiNnaMoN BoMb 3)
wrote:
Chuck Simmons
>
> i'm a lurker in this NG and today when my history teacher (at a PUBLIC school)
> gave us a lecture on "the evils of harry potter"... i couldn't resist but to
> share it with this NG.
> Heres pretty much the jist of it: she just kept blabbing about how he is
> anti-christian and is going to corrupt our youth.
There is an association of witchcraft and wizardry with devil worship.
There is also a possible mistranslation in the bible that causes
trouble.
However, in fiction, one can suspend the laws of the universe and do
most anything and all it is is entertainment.
Personally, I would burn newspapers before I would burn books. I
consider a harmless unblushing fantasy much "healthier" than fiction
sold as truth.
Chuck
--
... The times have been,
That, when the brains were out,
the man would die. ... Macbeth
Chuck Simmons chr...@webaccess.net
Jeff Thomas
news:20021115164742...@mb-bh.aol.com:
Well, if she really did all that and it could be confirmed, I'd report her
to the school board if it was me. Bringing religion into a public school
class room is a no-no. I'd call the ACLU to see if I had a case. Five to
one she'd get her butt fired.
Chotii
"CiNnaMoN BoMb 3" <cinnam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021115164742...@mb-bh.aol.com...
<snip>
> she just kept blabbing about how he is
> anti-christian and is going to corrupt our youth. she was talking about
some
> book burning in another state and how she wanted to have one here. how
she's
> trying to get our school library to get rid of the harry potter books. and
she
> was citing examples from the text ...all of course TOTALLY out of context.
she
> was like encouraging us to accept god ....
Uh...
*Where* was this public school, where your teacher went on what amounted to
a religious rant? Can't have been in the USA...that'd get somebody canned
so fast they wouldn't have time to clear out their desk before they were
being escorted to the edge of town.
--angela
I am Dustin Furnature
>> anti-christian and is going to corrupt our youth
>> was like encouraging us to accept god ....
>
what if someone in your class IS anti christian, or a wiccan or something? they
could like sue the teacher lol
Vicky
http://www.ujournal.org/users/hitz/
The.people.with.the
most.talent
are.always.the
least.recognized,
it's.all.about.a
pretty.face
Kevin Karpenske
news:20021115182358...@mb-bg.aol.com:
>>> she just kept blabbing about how he is anti-christian and is going
>>> to corrupt our youth
>>>
>>> was like encouraging us to accept god ....
>
> what if someone in your class IS anti christian, or a wiccan or
> something? they could like sue the teacher lol
I'd have become Wiccan on the spot for that sole purpose. ;-)
--
Kevin Karpenske
krk at firefox dot com
"Question your answers;
the truth has no anger." --Collective Soul
Jack Conrad
>Uhm .. Christmas and Easter are originally pagan festivals
>
I didn't know pagans celebrated the birth of the Christ and His
Resurrection!
Or do you mean that Christianity chose to celebrate those things on
the same days that pagans were already celebrating something?
The difference is important: no, neither Christmas nor Easter were
pagan holidays. Christians just chose days on whcih there were
existing pagan holidays to more or less taken them over.
Ryan
>be very dissapointed if i EVER see one of you kids reading the harry potter
>books again"
I think i'd have to start bringing the books to class just to spite her ;o)
Pluto (M)
"thompson" <thomps...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fesatus2di12t84l4...@4ax.com...
Christmas - Yule
Easter - ... Hell, I dunno
And don't forget Halloween - Samhain/All Hallows Eve
CiNnaMoN BoMb 3
>a religious rant? Can't have been in the USA...that'd get somebody canned
>so fast they wouldn't have time to clear out their desk before they were
>being escorted to the edge of town.
>
>--angela
>
>
>
Illinois... :(
Jed Wright
do enough research if they did they would know Harry's wizardry is nothing like
Wicca/witchcraft.
I'm Wiccan and it wasn't because of Harry Potter it was because I feel/felt
that being a Wiccan would allow me to express myself religously the best way
possible.
P.S. Wicca is America's 8th leading religon
The Lazy Genius
remove eatspam to email
Jed Wright
Christian Winter
"CiNnaMoN BoMb 3" <cinnam...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:20021115164742...@mb-bh.aol.com...
> i'm a lurker in this NG and today when my history teacher (at a PUBLIC
school)
> gave us a lecture on "the evils of harry potter"... i couldn't resist but
to
> share it with this NG.
> Heres pretty much the jist of it: she just kept blabbing about how he is
> anti-christian and is going to corrupt our youth. she was talking about
some
> book burning in another state and how she wanted to have one here.
I'm really getting worried about this book-burning thing getting
more and more popular over in the states (or at least that is my
impression). I'm from Germany, where this thing has a very sad
history, as i think all of you will know. There's a proverb (is that
the right word? looked it up with babelfish) here, that says
"Those who burn books will also burn people". Not that I assume
everyone participating in those book-burnings of that, but it might
give your teacher something to think about.
> how she's
> trying to get our school library to get rid of the harry potter books. and
she
> was citing examples from the text ...all of course TOTALLY out of context.
she
> was like encouraging us to accept god and ** "becoming a witch won't make
you
> cool" ** and yea, it was just stupid, imo! it's really starting to make me
mad
> because she has always made it clear to us her despisal of harry potter
but
> this is the first time she basically devoted an ENTIRE class to lecturing
us
> about how we shouldn't go see this movie because tha'ts only giving money
to
> the devil.
Well, it seems like your teacher is one of those poor people who
aren't able to cope with the question of what's real and what's imagined.
It's a (severe) personal problem, but it most likely won't be one
anyone except herself may solve (just what I'd guess from my
experiences with teachers).
> one of the most unbelievable quotes was something like this: "i will
> be very dissapointed if i EVER see one of you kids reading the harry
potter
> books again"
I would think of this one as rather cute. Teachers have been disappointed
all the time when I was in school ;-)
> so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a christian,
isn't
> he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan...
he
> didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
Does it really matter if Harry Potter was christian or not?
I'd say, there are quite a lot of important ethical values the
Potter-books (or films) show. You might call those values
christian, or buddhistic, or muslimic, or how ever you want.
They are what keeps our societies together and they definetly
aren't evil.
Best Regards
Chris, just another lurker here ;)
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Madame Flutterby
I am a teacher and I LOVE the Harry Potter books.
I love the books because so many kids have experienced that a great book can
be more rewarding than any move or TV show.
It took me until last summer to pick up the first book. I soon had all of
them read in a few weeks. I was very impressed with JK's imagination. I
never once finished a chapter and thought, "oh, this is boring." What an
action packed set of books!
You are always going to find people who want to fight a church war about
literature, music, government- but you don't ever have to change your mind
of get upset about how a person believes. Just take it as a grain of salt
and (when you're older - school might not be the best place for this) don't
be afraid to speak your mind and do what you think is pleasing to you.
Just from an informal poll at our school... Harry is liked by all teachers
who have read the books! :)
Happy Friday
mfb
--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Life is whatever you choose to make it, and that home IS where the heart is.
So if I can find the touch of Grace within the embers of my own heart,
then I can find it anywhere... Fred LaBlanc
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Doug <dnpho...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3DD56C23...@netscape.net...
Sharann
> tor...@aol.com (I am Dustin Furnature) wrote in
> news:20021115182358...@mb-bg.aol.com:
>
> >>> she just kept blabbing about how he is anti-christian and is going
> >>> to corrupt our youth
> >>>
> >>> was like encouraging us to accept god ....
> >
> > what if someone in your class IS anti christian, or a wiccan or
> > something? they could like sue the teacher lol
>
> I'd have become Wiccan on the spot for that sole purpose. ;-)
You know what? Tell her that ever since the Christians got a hold of
the Holidays, they became even more pagan-y, with our materalistic
attitudes instead of worshipping something.
Michelle Smith
>> >>> to corrupt our youth
>> >>>
Report her to the ACLU, People for the American Way, and the school board.
Michelle Smith
http://www.truemajority.com
"You want to tempt the wrath of whatever from high atop the thingy?"
Beauty and the Beastly Commercial: http://www.JimHillMedia.com
Discuss: http://pub138.ezboard.com/bjimhillmedia
david e.g. meijer
>so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a christian, isn't
>he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan... he
>didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
christmas and easter seemed more to be holidays, nothing christian
anymore.
the point would be, wether your magic comes from God. every magic that
does not regard Him as the source would at least put him in a big
trouble, christianwise.
what harry did before his 11th is nothing anyone could criticize.
the only thing that matters, though, is: IT`S FICTION!
its not real, christianity is not a point. if you do not like THAT,
ok, but you will have a lot more books and movies not to read.
--
fpoe - die ratten verlassen den stinkenden fisch
James J. Dominguez
On 16 Nov 2002, CiNnaMoN BoMb 3 shared this:
> she has always made it clear to us her despisal of harry potter but
> this is the first time she basically devoted an ENTIRE class to
> lecturing us about how we shouldn't go see this movie because tha'ts
> only giving money to the devil.
Uh... if your public school history teacher really devoted an entire
class to a religious rant, rather than, say... TEACHING HISTORY, then you
and your classmates should report her to the principal for wasting school
resources and setting herself up as some kind of unofficial religion
teacher. Her job is to teach history, not to preach fundamentalist
Christian lunacy and ignorant literary criticism.
--
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| James J. Dominguez (aka DexX) | mcd...@optushome.com.au |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| "If you set aside Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, the safety |
| record of nuclear power is really is good." |
| - US Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Tennant Stuart
"Pluto \(M\)" <plu...@nospam.flash.net> wrote:
> Christmas - Yule
Yep, with Yule logs, decorated trees (the baubles were originally
small sacrifices), mistletoe, wreaths, the holly & the ivy - it's
all pagan forest worship.
> Easter - ... Hell, I dunno
Named after the fertility goddess Oestra, hence the eggs & rabbits.
Tennant
--
____ ____ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ ____
(_ _)( ___)( \( )( \( ) /__\ ( \( )(_ _) Greetings to family
)( )__) ) ( ) ( /(__)\ ) ( )( friends & neighbours
(__) (____)(_)\_)(_)\_)(__)(__)(_)\_) (__) @argonet.co.uk & MCR
HRH NB II
>From: "James J. Dominguez" mcd...@optushome.NOcom.SPAMau
>Date: 11/16/02 10:33 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <Xns92C91A26EDE84mc...@210.49.20.254>
>On 16 Nov 2002, CiNnaMoN BoMb 3 shared this:
>> she has always made it clear to us her despisal of harry potter but
>> this is the first time she basically devoted an ENTIRE class to
>> lecturing us about how we shouldn't go see this movie because tha'ts
>> only giving money to the devil.
>
> Uh... if your public school history teacher really devoted an entire
>class to a religious rant, rather than, say... TEACHING HISTORY, then you
>and your classmates should report her to the principal for wasting school
>resources and setting herself up as some kind of unofficial religion
>teacher. Her job is to teach history, not to preach fundamentalist
>Christian lunacy and ignorant literary criticism.
>
>
>--
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>| James J. Dominguez (aka DexX) | mcd...@optushome.com.au |
If this person's history teacher is so determined to making her students' taste
in literature conform with her personal religious beliefs, I'm frightened to
think about what kind of history she teaches them (when she does teach, that
is). And for a history teacher to promote book-burning is sickening.
Sort of ironic, but I went to Catholic school for twelve years, and our
teachers never did stuff like that. They taught evolution, for christ's sake.
HRH
Jerry bryson
e.g. meijer) wrote:
>
> the point would be, wether your magic comes from God. every magic that
> does not regard Him as the source would at least put him in a big
> trouble, christianwise.
What is magic, anyway? I like the definition that magic is technology you
don't understand. Banning use of magic would prevent most people using
telephones (cell or land line) or driving late model cars with computers
in them.
Sirius Kase
<dnpho...@netscape.net> wrote:
The witchcraft in Harry Potter is not a religion, it is a talent for a
particular skill that can be improved with a proper education, similar
to other talents such as music, performing arts, or technology. No
deity is invoked in performing the spells, it is about as religious as
a TV remote. Any connection with wicca is based purely on the fact
that they use similar vocabulary with different meanings.
Harry comes from a Christian culture (he even has a godfather), but
there is no evidence that he has any particular religous believes.
sirius kase
--
Emma Watson: We get along very, very well.
Tom Felton: We're not really enemies. We love each other really.
Sirius Kase
<ten...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <MtgB9.1081$4g5...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
> "Pluto \(M\)" <plu...@nospam.flash.net> wrote:
>
> > Christmas - Yule
>
> Yep, with Yule logs, decorated trees (the baubles were originally
> small sacrifices), mistletoe, wreaths, the holly & the ivy - it's
> all pagan forest worship.
Yeah, remember all those Yule logs and mistletoe in Bethlehem? I'm a
Christian, but I have a real problem with that holiday. I don't
consider it a religious event. Easter, however, is a different thing.
It was not selected to coincide with a pagan holiday, it is connected
to Passover because Jesus was a Jew and just happened to be celebrating
Passover at the time. A very religous holiday, not to be confused with
a pagan fertility festival that happens about the same time.
>
>
> > Easter - ... Hell, I dunno
>
> Named after the fertility goddess Oestra, hence the eggs & rabbits.
The term "Easter" is used in the New Testament. Was it orinally
written that day, or did an editor from the Levine school of thought
get ahold of it when it was translated to English? What religion is
Oestra associated with? IIRC, several religions were prevalent in the
Roman Empire at the time of Christ.
>
>
> Tennant
Sirius Kase
<jth...@fyi.net> wrote:
> Well, if she really did all that and it could be confirmed, I'd report her
> to the school board if it was me. Bringing religion into a public school
> class room is a no-no. I'd call the ACLU to see if I had a case. Five to
> one she'd get her butt fired.
I'm not sure how old you are, but unless you are already in High
School, I recommend you go to your parents first, the the ACLU. If you
are going ofter a teacher, you are going to need all the help you can
get even if you are a very competent child. I think you should get
legal help even if you are in High School. The school administration's
first response will be to try to get you to shut up and go away, they
will back the teacher until they can't. When it is your word against
the teacher, you are at a disadvantage.
If what you related is accurate, you have a case that I'd be interested
in following. I encourage any legal action that better defines the
role of religous discussion in our schools and I am also interested in
anythng that gets the word out that HP is a good context for discussion
of moral issues, especially since Rowling has done so while avoiding
religous issues.
Sirius Kase
<onestran...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I wouldn't recommend arguing with the teacher about this, you won't
change her mind, all you would do is tip her off. You may want to
contact parents of other kids in class, you will need witnesses who are
credible.
Sirius Kase
Wright <lzyg...@cs.comeatspam> wrote:
> Wicca is America's 8th leading religon
What are the top seven?
Dark Tyger
>On 15 Nov 2002 21:47:42 GMT, (CiNnaMoN BoMb 3) wrote:
>
>>so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a christian, isn't
>>he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan... he
>>didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
>
>christmas and easter seemed more to be holidays, nothing christian
>anymore.
Also, I'd point out that Christmas and Easter both, if memory serves,
fall on holidays original celebrated by the Celtic earth-based
religions... (and possibly others)
--
Dark Tyger, the slightly eccentric, railgun-toting kitty kat
Email me at comcast.net
=^..^=
"There are no happy endings because nothing ever ends" -Schmendric, The Last Unicorn
Kahir Rhom, 48 Vah Shir Beastlord
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=347423
Madame Flutterby
not just tell her in private?
duh! let the crime fit the punishment. Be an adult.
--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Life is whatever you choose to make it, and that home IS where the heart is.
So if I can find the touch of Grace within the embers of my own heart,
then I can find it anywhere... Fred LaBlanc
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Michelle Smith <dscve...@aol.complex> wrote in message
news:20021116010803...@mb-ba.aol.com...
Richard Eney
Sirius Kase <Siriu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Doug <dnpho...@netscape.net> wrote:
>> [name lost wrote:]
>> > so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a
>> > christian, isn't he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no
>> > way he is a wiccan... he didn't even know that he was a wizard until
>> > he was 11!
>>
>> I do not think you have to believe in anything to become a
>> wizard/witch.
Quite true. In the Potter universe, belief in a religion is not involved
in magic. As Sirius Kase says:
>The witchcraft in Harry Potter is not a religion, it is a talent for a
>particular skill that can be improved with a proper education, similar
>to other talents such as music, performing arts, or technology. No
>deity is invoked in performing the spells, it is about as religious as
>a TV remote. Any connection with wicca is based purely on the fact
>that they use similar vocabulary with different meanings.
As near as I can tell, the only similar vocabulary they use is the word
"witch", which they define differently.
=Tamar
Chotii
> Illinois... :(
Mmm. I smell a lawsuit.
--angela
david e.g. meijer
>> the point would be, wether your magic comes from God. every magic that
>> does not regard Him as the source would at least put him in a big
>> trouble, christianwise.
>What is magic, anyway? I like the definition that magic is technology you
>don't understand. Banning use of magic would prevent most people using
>telephones (cell or land line) or driving late model cars with computers
>in them.
magic is a power that contradicts the laws of nature.
it can either come from God, or not.
if it is not from God, it is bad.
no, I do not like the technology-definition. why should muggles not be
able to use it, then?
david e.g. meijer
>>>so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a christian, isn't
>>>he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan... he
>>>didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
>>
>>christmas and easter seemed more to be holidays, nothing christian
>>anymore.
>
>Also, I'd point out that Christmas and Easter both, if memory serves,
>fall on holidays original celebrated by the Celtic earth-based
>religions... (and possibly others)
that would only be a point if they celbrated yule etc. they don´t. we
had thata lready.
Shannon
> i'm a lurker in this NG and today when my history teacher (at a PUBLIC school)
> gave us a lecture on "the evils of harry potter"... i couldn't resist but to
> share it with this NG.
> Heres pretty much the jist of it: she just kept blabbing about how he is
> anti-christian and is going to corrupt our youth. she was talking about some
> trying to get our school library to get rid of the harry potter books. and she
> was citing examples from the text ...all of course TOTALLY out of context. she
> was like encouraging us to accept god and ** "becoming a witch won't make you
> cool" ** and yea, it was just stupid, imo! it's really starting to make me mad
> this is the first time she basically devoted an ENTIRE class to lecturing us
> about how we shouldn't go see this movie because tha'ts only giving money to
> be very dissapointed if i EVER see one of you kids reading the harry potter
> books again"
>
> he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan... he
> didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
Spoiler Space for the easily offended religious types...
.
.
.
.
.
Ok, that's enough space. Please ask your teacher if becoming a nun
will "make you cool."
And here's something I've wondered about for a long time... how absurd
is the concept of a religion called Potterism? Hear me out... I'm not
talking about starting it or having it right now but maybe, say, 2000
years from now. Very different civilization then, somebody finds these
ancient books about a young man who does miraculous things and saves
the world from evil. Researching the books they find that history
shows that there really were places called Surrey and Kings Cross
Station. There were castles. People used brooms. Maybe this WAS a real
person and we owe our existence and the goodness of the world to him
and everything that he taught. WOW!
Sorry, I just don't see how the ultra-religious groups/individuals can
put down this series of stories called Harry Potter and yet put all
their faith in another series of stories called The Bible. All in all
I'd like to know how sure we are that these religious writings weren't
just a collection of fictional stories meant to entertain people 2000
years ago.
Shannon
(bound for hell, right?)
A.G.Lindsay
> it's really starting to make me mad
> because she has always made it clear to us her despisal of harry potter but
> this is the first time she basically devoted an ENTIRE class to lecturing us
> about how we shouldn't go see this movie because tha'ts only giving money to
> the devil. one of the most unbelievable quotes was something like this: "i will
> be very dissapointed if i EVER see one of you kids reading the harry potter
> books again"
Well, if you haven't taken this up with your parents, I would definitely
discuss this with them. She shouldn't be expounding her religious viewpoints
in a secular school instead of teaching what she was hired to teach. Maybe
you can get your classmates to do the same and have as many of the parents
as possible contact the principal or the school board. Is there another
class you can transfer to?
I'd be worried that someone teaching as basic a subject as History should
have shown such an inability to distinguish reality from fiction. She might
say, however, that she was discussing "current events", but it doesn't
sound much like a discussion if no one else was allowed to voice a
differing viewpoint without fear of reprisal.
Personally, I would recommend you NOT confront her by yourself. I can see
this sort of thing causing her to resent you and mark you down in her
class. (This happened to my brother, and my dad ended up having to go
to the school board to get his marks changed...It was physics class
in High School so it was easy to show she was marking him down. Grading
History projects and tests is much more subjective.)
> so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a christian, isn't
> he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan... he
> didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
There's no evidence as to what religion Harry is. It's assumed, since he's
an ordinary British kid, that he's some flavor of Christian. Magic, in the
books, seems to be like Art or singing although a bit more obscure: some
people have a natural gift for it, some have enough talent to be able
to be taught to do it, and some people just can't do it at all.
Good luck. Let us know how things turn out.
--lin
doug
I say that the writers of the bible were all drug users.. warped
their minds as well.
Jeff C
teachers ignored teaching to flog her personal religion at the
students for an entire class.
This kind of question gets attention, especially if you get several of
yoru classmates to ask their parents as well. School boards don't like
this kind of thing.
Jerry bryson
e.g. meijer) wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:01:29 -0500, (Jerry bryson) wrote:
>
> >> the point would be, wether your magic comes from God. every magic that
> >> does not regard Him as the source would at least put him in a big
> >> trouble, christianwise.
> >What is magic, anyway? I like the definition that magic is technology you
> >don't understand. Banning use of magic would prevent most people using
> >telephones (cell or land line) or driving late model cars with computers
> >in them.
>
> magic is a power that contradicts the laws of nature.
So, where is it? Any examples? Also please list all the laws of nature.
We need to test any example of magic against them all. It would be
interesting to watch somebody contradict a law of nature.
>
> it can either come from God, or not.
>
> if it is not from God, it is bad.
Does electricity come from God? Is it good or bad? If have an example of
magic, how do you know if it comes from God or not?
>
> no, I do not like the technology-definition. why should muggles not be
> able to use it, then?
They don't know how. Like most muggles can't use calculus. At any rate,
Harry Potter magic is fiction, and is thus not magic at all. It isn't
even real. And we are still left with no magic at all, just charlatans.
Jerry bryson
lif...@aol.com (Shannon) wrote:
>
> And here's something I've wondered about for a long time... how absurd
> is the concept of a religion called Potterism?
No, it would be Potteranity.
>Hear me out... I'm not
> talking about starting it or having it right now but maybe, say, 2000
> years from now. Very different civilization then, somebody finds these
> ancient books about a young man who does miraculous things and saves
> the world from evil. Researching the books they find that history
> shows that there really were places called Surrey and Kings Cross
> Station. There were castles. People used brooms. Maybe this WAS a real
> person and we owe our existence and the goodness of the world to him
> and everything that he taught. WOW!
>
> Sorry, I just don't see how the ultra-religious groups/individuals can
> put down this series of stories called Harry Potter and yet put all
> their faith in another series of stories called The Bible. All in all
> I'd like to know how sure we are that these religious writings weren't
> just a collection of fictional stories meant to entertain people 2000
> years ago.
Much of it was just that. More so in the Old Testament than the new. To
date, we have no hard evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't mean
that he *didn't* historically exist. Pick up the Bible and skip around
in it, determining to find "entertainment." You may notice Jesus had a
sense of humor that is seldom mentioned in modern preaching.
Kevin Karpenske
news:jbryson-1811...@dialup-166.90.109.182.dial1.richmond1.level
3.net:
>> And here's something I've wondered about for a long time... how
>> absurd is the concept of a religion called Potterism?
>
> No, it would be Potteranity.
Ehh, did you just say Pottersanity? I believe that's an oxymoron!
--
Kevin Karpenske, krk at firefox dot com
* Hogwarts School Interactive - http://www.firefox.com/hsi/
* 5 areas and counting! ;-)
david e.g. meijer
>> >> the point would be, wether your magic comes from God. every magic that
>> >> does not regard Him as the source would at least put him in a big
>> >> trouble, christianwise.
>> >What is magic, anyway? I like the definition that magic is technology you
>> >don't understand. Banning use of magic would prevent most people using
>> >telephones (cell or land line) or driving late model cars with computers
>> >in them.
>> magic is a power that contradicts the laws of nature.
>So, where is it? Any examples? Also please list all the laws of nature.
>We need to test any example of magic against them all. It would be
>interesting to watch somebody contradict a law of nature.
all saints that were canonized needed some wonders. there you find
your magic.
I will not list all the laws of nature, it is just plain obvious what
phisically can be achieved and what not.
>> it can either come from God, or not.
>> if it is not from God, it is bad.
>Does electricity come from God? Is it good or bad? If have an example of
>magic, how do you know if it comes from God or not?
it is no magic, and nothing that you invoke some higher entity for.
electricity is neutral. it can be used in good ways or in bad ways.
you are seriously missing a point.
but, ok, take electricity as an example. you electrocute someone, it
is bad. you turn on FOX-television. it is bad. you bring light into
the dark. that is good.
a big part of good/bad is the idea with which you do something.
I know by looking at the kind of magic and the idea behind the action.
>> no, I do not like the technology-definition. why should muggles not be
>> able to use it, then?
>They don't know how. Like most muggles can't use calculus. At any rate,
>Harry Potter magic is fiction, and is thus not magic at all. It isn't
>even real. And we are still left with no magic at all, just charlatans.
no, it is not "they do not know how". you could tell them, they still
couldn´t (and that is something differen than learning to control a
VCR).
muggles are not capable of magic.
and I pitty you and youre world without any magic.
david e.g. meijer
>date, we have no hard evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't mean
>that he *didn't* historically exist. Pick up the Bible and skip around
>in it, determining to find "entertainment." You may notice Jesus had a
>sense of humor that is seldom mentioned in modern preaching.
how hard would this evidence have to be, for you to accept it?
Kal Alexander
news:3dd95df...@News.CIS.DFN.de...
> On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:44:05 -0500,Jerry bryson) wrote:
>
> >date, we have no hard evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't mean
> >that he *didn't* historically exist. Pick up the Bible and skip around
> >in it, determining to find "entertainment." You may notice Jesus had a
> >sense of humor that is seldom mentioned in modern preaching.
>
> how hard would this evidence have to be, for you to accept it?
Maybe he wants to see the body? <8^)
Later
Kal
--
Book 5 will be out prior to book 6, and
book 7 can't come out until after book 6.
So it all revolves around book 6.
When is book 6 going to be out?
david e.g. meijer
>> >date, we have no hard evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't mean
>> >that he *didn't* historically exist. Pick up the Bible and skip around
>> >in it, determining to find "entertainment." You may notice Jesus had a
>> >sense of humor that is seldom mentioned in modern preaching.
>> how hard would this evidence have to be, for you to accept it?
>Maybe he wants to see the body? <8^)
I see the body every sunday. do people not go to mass anymore?
Milagros Daly
Not if they're not catholic. And not everyone believes that the bread
becomes the body. We're getting into complicated territory.
david e.g. meijer
>> >> >date, we have no hard evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't
>mean
>> >> >that he *didn't* historically exist. Pick up the Bible and skip
>around
>> >> >in it, determining to find "entertainment." You may notice Jesus had
>a
>> >> >sense of humor that is seldom mentioned in modern preaching.
>> >> how hard would this evidence have to be, for you to accept it?
>> >Maybe he wants to see the body? <8^)
>> I see the body every sunday. do people not go to mass anymore?
> Not if they're not catholic.
poor them!
>And not everyone believes that the bread
>becomes the body. We're getting into complicated territory.
the question was, where he could see it. I told you. to believe does
not change the nature of our world.
doug
I have not been to mass for close to five years, and do not tell
me that I have to, since I KNOW that I do *not* have to do
anything I do not want to do.
Troels Forchhammer
>
> thompson <thomps...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Uhm .. Christmas and Easter are originally pagan festivals
> >
>
> I didn't know pagans celebrated the birth of the Christ and His
> Resurrection!
>
> Or do you mean that Christianity chose to celebrate those things on
> the same days that pagans were already celebrating something?
>
> The difference is important: no, neither Christmas nor Easter were
> pagan holidays. Christians just chose days on whcih there were
> existing pagan holidays to more or less taken them over.
In Denmark Christmas is still called yule ('jul').
The traditions surrounding the celebration are to a large extent
unchanged from pre-christian times (except we can't brew the beer
ourselves anymore - we have to buy it ;-)
The Christmas tree is definitely a use of pagan symbolism.
It is still common in Denmark to feed the house-gnome at Christmas.
etc.
- so don't give me that about our (Danish) christmas not being
pagan - it is still more pagan than Christian (most people don't
even bother to go to church).
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid mail is t.forch(a)mail.dk
The trouble with being a god is that you've got no one to pray to.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
Troels Forchhammer
>
> In article <na.1844bc4b96...@argonet.co.uk>, Tennant Stuart
> <ten...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <MtgB9.1081$4g5...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
> > "Pluto \(M\)" <plu...@nospam.flash.net> wrote:
> >
>>> Christmas - Yule
>>
>> Yep, with Yule logs, decorated trees (the baubles were originally
>> small sacrifices), mistletoe, wreaths, the holly & the ivy - it's
>> all pagan forest worship.
>
> Yeah, remember all those Yule logs and mistletoe in Bethlehem?
Heh - we even call it yule ('jul') still in Scandinavia ;-)
And it was originally a very popular holiday for one of the Roman
Gods - the Christians needed some kind of celebration at that point
to increase their marketing potential and thought 'heck - let's
celebrate the birth of Jesus there, we haven't got that one yet,
anyway!'
> A very religous holiday, not to be confused with a pagan
> fertility festival that happens about the same time.
But the eggs and rabbits etc. are all very pagan and directly
related with the fertility festival.
I'm not sure if the original Jewish holiday is old enough to be
pagan in origin - that'll be a question for those with knowledge
in those things ;-)
I remember in school we had some old texts setting down the
obligations for the farms during the holidays in early christian
times (in Scandinavia - about the year 1000).
The majority of the test dealt with how much beer of various sorts
the farm should brew - how much the workers were entitled to and
how much should be given to the church, how good the food should be
etc. - and oh, yes. You had to go to church too ;-)
david e.g. meijer
>>>>>date, we have no hard evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't mean
>>>>>that he *didn't* historically exist. Pick up the Bible and skip around
>>>>>in it, determining to find "entertainment." You may notice Jesus had a
>>>>>sense of humor that is seldom mentioned in modern preaching.
>>>>how hard would this evidence have to be, for you to accept it?
>>>Maybe he wants to see the body? <8^)
>> I see the body every sunday. do people not go to mass anymore?
>I have not been to mass for close to five years, and do not tell
>me that I have to, since I KNOW that I do *not* have to do
>anything I do not want to do.
"I have to" only makes sense when there is no way avoiding it. the way
I would like to mean "you have to" is as "you should and will face the
consequences". I am gonna pray for you, anyway.
doug
The prayers are *NOT* welcome.. I do not need nor do I want
salvation...since it is a refusable gift.
david e.g. meijer
>> "I have to" only makes sense when there is no way avoiding it. the way
>> I would like to mean "you have to" is as "you should and will face the
>> consequences". I am gonna pray for you, anyway.
>The prayers are *NOT* welcome.. I do not need nor do I want
>salvation...since it is a refusable gift.
you can argue about that with God in the end. till then, I will do
right as I think it is right.
I downright doubt the likability of seeing God and saying "no".
doug
Well, you can.. but I do not need to be saved.. since I do not
believe in the (lying)-->Christian God. I also do not believe in
the concept of Heaven nor do I believe in the concept of Hell..
I am an ATHEIST..so, please.. do not pray for me.. or I will get
very annoyed.
Tennant Stuart
Sirius Kase <Siriu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In article <na.1844bc4b96...@argonet.co.uk>,
> Tennant Stuart <ten...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <MtgB9.1081$4g5...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
>> "Pluto \(M\)" <plu...@nospam.flash.net> wrote:
>>> Christmas - Yule
>> Yep, with Yule logs, decorated trees (the baubles were originally
>> small sacrifices), mistletoe, wreaths, the holly & the ivy - it's
>> all pagan forest worship.
> Yeah, remember all those Yule logs and mistletoe in Bethlehem? I'm a
> Christian, but I have a real problem with that holiday. I don't
> consider it a religious event. Easter, however, is a different thing.
> It was not selected to coincide with a pagan holiday, it is connected
> to Passover because Jesus was a Jew and just happened to be celebrating
> Passover at the time. A very religous holiday, not to be confused with
> a pagan fertility festival that happens about the same time.
Well, if you believe the biblical account about the tax gathering,
and what King Herod did, then historical accounts place the birth
of Jesus in May 6BC. The month was moved to December by the Romans,
to coincide with Saturnalia; while the error in the year happened
from how the AD calender was first calculated in the 4th century.
>>> Easter - ... Hell, I dunno
>> Named after the fertility goddess Oestra, hence the eggs & rabbits.
> The term "Easter" is used in the New Testament. Was it orinally
> written that day, or did an editor from the Levine school of thought
> get a hold of it when it was translated to English? What religion is
> Oestra associated with? IIRC, several religions were prevalent in the
> Roman Empire at the time of Christ.
I seem to recall that Oestra was a Norse goddess.
Tennant
--
____ ____ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ ____
(_ _)( ___)( \( )( \( ) /__\ ( \( )(_ _) Greetings to family
)( )__) ) ( ) ( /(__)\ ) ( )( friends & neighbours
(__) (____)(_)\_)(_)\_)(__)(__)(_)\_) (__) @argonet.co.uk & MCR
david e.g. meijer
>I am an ATHEIST..so, please.. do not pray for me.. or I will get
>very annoyed.
getting annoyed and missing our heaven-party will be two things of
very different quality.
da"fucked up beyond all OTism, so can we stop it?"vid
Michelle Smith
>very different quality.
It doesn't involve wearing Nikes and getting snipped, does it?
Michelle Smith
"Look at your TAIL!" ~Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Kal Alexander
news:20021119190458...@mb-mu.aol.com...
Apparently, there is a spell for that.
--
I'll be in my room, making no noise and
pretending I'm not there.
Jerry bryson
e.g. meijer) wrote:
> >> magic is a power that contradicts the laws of nature.
> >So, where is it? Any examples? Also please list all the laws of nature.
> >We need to test any example of magic against them all. It would be
> >interesting to watch somebody contradict a law of nature.
>
> all saints that were canonized needed some wonders. there you find
> your magic.
>
There you find church politics.
> I will not list all the laws of nature, it is just plain obvious what
> phisically can be achieved and what not.
>
it wasn't obvious a hundred years ago, nor is it obvious what will be
achieved in the next hundred years.
> >Does electricity come from God? Is it good or bad? If have an example of
> >magic, how do you know if it comes from God or not?
>
> it is no magic, and nothing that you invoke some higher entity for.
Right, it isn't magic, although we don't understand all about it.
>
> electricity is neutral. it can be used in good ways or in bad ways.
> you are seriously missing a point.
If there were magic, it would also likely be neutral, depending on one's
motives in using it.
>
> but, ok, take electricity as an example. you electrocute someone, it
> is bad. you turn on FOX-television. it is bad. you bring light into
> the dark. that is good.
>
> a big part of good/bad is the idea with which you do something.
>
> I know by looking at the kind of magic and the idea behind the action.
First, we need some magic to look at.
>
> >> no, I do not like the technology-definition. why should muggles not be
> >> able to use it, then?
> >They don't know how. Like most muggles can't use calculus. At any rate,
> >Harry Potter magic is fiction, and is thus not magic at all. It isn't
> >even real. And we are still left with no magic at all, just charlatans.
>
> no, it is not "they do not know how". you could tell them, they still
> couldn´t (and that is something differen than learning to control a
> VCR).
>
> muggles are not capable of magic.
>
> and I pitty you and youre world without any magic.
God's laws are entertaining enough with no need to override them. the
world is full of wonders.
Jerry bryson
e.g. meijer) wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:44:05 -0500,Jerry bryson) wrote:
>
> >date, we have no hard evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't mean
> >that he *didn't* historically exist. Pick up the Bible and skip around
> >in it, determining to find "entertainment." You may notice Jesus had a
> >sense of humor that is seldom mentioned in modern preaching.
>
> how hard would this evidence have to be, for you to accept it?
First, understand that I *do* think the historical Jesus existed,so you
need to direct your question to someone who doesn't. We see a lot of
Christian thought originating with Paul, but there seems to be someone
else involved in the creative beginnings of Christianity, before Paul got
involved. Tradition has it that his name was Jusus, so...
Also, opponents of Christianity started early. Had there been no such
person as Jesus, they would have known, and would have made hay with it.
However, they don't suggest that Jesus didn't exist. They must have been
pretty sure he existed.
Jerry bryson
Alexander" <kevm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "david e.g. meijer" <monkey...@gmx.at> wrote in message
> news:3dd95df...@News.CIS.DFN.de...
> > On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:44:05 -0500,Jerry bryson) wrote:
> >
> > >date, we have no hard evidence of a historical Jesus. Which doesn't mean
> > >that he *didn't* historically exist. Pick up the Bible and skip around
> > >in it, determining to find "entertainment." You may notice Jesus had a
> > >sense of humor that is seldom mentioned in modern preaching.
> >
> > how hard would this evidence have to be, for you to accept it?
>
>
> Maybe he wants to see the body? <8^)
Actually, there was an osuary (sp) found in the tombsites around
Bethlehem, back in the 1960's, with the name Jesus ben Joseph, but Jesus
and Joseph were fairly common names at the time and nobody realy thinks
they found the body. Not seriously, anyway. Good for a few chuckles,
though.
Jerry bryson
Daly" <milagr...@ameritech.net> wrote:
...now, THAT's magic.
Michelle Smith
Most fiction is.
>. the
>world is full of wonders.
>
Yep.
Jeff Thomas
.net:
>
> Also, opponents of Christianity started early. Had there been no
> such person as Jesus, they would have known, and would have made hay
> with it. However, they don't suggest that Jesus didn't exist. They
> must have been pretty sure he existed.
>
Not necessarily as the church had strict control of writing, records, and
most learning for the best part of a thousand years or more. It would have
been very easy to erase any and all traces of known writings that
dissented.
The church proved that with all the changes that were made to known
written works, including which books were excepted into the "bible".
Several that were included at one time were later dropped and a number of
changes to the wording were accomplished.
The only thing that prevents the church from pulling the same kind of scam
today are the very large print runs possible with the printing press. When
the only copies were in the churches or their own institutions they could
control what was in the Bible and revise it as needed to meet an ever
changing society. When control was lost because of the printing press and
it's ability to gives copies to everyone, those kinds of changes had to
stop.
Regards,
Ashen-shugar
Troels Forchhammer <Tro...@ThisIsFake.dk> wrote:
> The Christmas tree is definitely a use of pagan symbolism.
Actually, unlike the yule log and mistletoe, which are pagan symbols,
the Christmas tree is Christian in derivation (although it did come from
a culture - the German - which honored trees when the culture was
pagan). In Eastern (Orthodox) Churches, December 24th was celebrated as
the feast of Adam and Eve. The Germans took to this feast by decorating
trees with apples, symbolizing the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and
Evil that was in the center of the Garden of Eden. Since that was the
day before Christmas, the tree became known as the Christmas tree, and
came to represent the other tree in the Garden - the Tree of Life, which
is identified in Christianity with the Cross of Christ.
Kevin
--
Germs attack people where they are weakest.
This explains the number of head colds.
Dark Tyger
>In article <3DDA09C8...@ThisIsFake.dk>,
> Troels Forchhammer <Tro...@ThisIsFake.dk> wrote:
>
>> The Christmas tree is definitely a use of pagan symbolism.
>
>Actually, unlike the yule log and mistletoe, which are pagan symbols,
>the Christmas tree is Christian in derivation (although it did come from
>a culture - the German - which honored trees when the culture was
>pagan). In Eastern (Orthodox) Churches, December 24th was celebrated as
>the feast of Adam and Eve. The Germans took to this feast by decorating
>trees with apples, symbolizing the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and
>Evil that was in the center of the Garden of Eden. Since that was the
>day before Christmas, the tree became known as the Christmas tree, and
>came to represent the other tree in the Garden - the Tree of Life, which
>is identified in Christianity with the Cross of Christ.
Actually, as I recall the lights on trees come from lighting candles
in the branches to warm the tree spirits... Druidic, I think.
Definately pagan. The roots of the tradition are DEFINATELY older than
Christianity. The Germans may have had a version of it, but it didn't
originate from them.
--
Dark Tyger, the slightly eccentric, railgun-toting kitty kat
Email me at comcast.net
=^..^=
"There are no happy endings because nothing ever ends" -Schmendric, The Last Unicorn
Kahir Rhom, 48 Vah Shir Beastlord
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=347423
david e.g. meijer
>> >> magic is a power that contradicts the laws of nature.
>> >So, where is it? Any examples? Also please list all the laws of nature.
>> >We need to test any example of magic against them all. It would be
>> >interesting to watch somebody contradict a law of nature.
>> all saints that were canonized needed some wonders. there you find
>> your magic.
>There you find church politics.
explain, please.
>> I will not list all the laws of nature, it is just plain obvious what
>> phisically can be achieved and what not.
>it wasn't obvious a hundred years ago, nor is it obvious what will be
>achieved in the next hundred years.
that sounds rather not so scientific.
>> electricity is neutral. it can be used in good ways or in bad ways.
>> you are seriously missing a point.
>If there were magic, it would also likely be neutral, depending on one's
>motives in using it.
yeah. exactly. and the motives that matter in this context are:
God-invoked or not.
>> but, ok, take electricity as an example. you electrocute someone, it
>> is bad. you turn on FOX-television. it is bad. you bring light into
>> the dark. that is good.
>> a big part of good/bad is the idea with which you do something.
>> I know by looking at the kind of magic and the idea behind the action.
>First, we need some magic to look at.
when saints for example heal people for whom medicine has no cure or
bring the dead back, they need magic.
>> muggles are not capable of magic.
>> and I pitty you and youre world without any magic.
>God's laws are entertaining enough with no need to override them. the
>world is full of wonders.
there is no "need", does not mean it does not happen.
david e.g. meijer
>>getting annoyed and missing our heaven-party will be two things of
>>very different quality.
>It doesn't involve wearing Nikes and getting snipped, does it?
no, no pagan deities will be satisfied by product-placement.
Jerry bryson
e.g. meijer) wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:47:37 -0500, (Jerry bryson) wrote:
>
> >> >> magic is a power that contradicts the laws of nature.
> >> >So, where is it? Any examples? Also please list all the laws of nature.
> >> >We need to test any example of magic against them all. It would be
> >> >interesting to watch somebody contradict a law of nature.
> >> all saints that were canonized needed some wonders. there you find
> >> your magic.
> >There you find church politics.
>
> explain, please.
Saints get chosen for political reasons.
>
> >> I will not list all the laws of nature, it is just plain obvious what
> >> phisically can be achieved and what not.
> >it wasn't obvious a hundred years ago, nor is it obvious what will be
> >achieved in the next hundred years.
>
> that sounds rather not so scientific.
"Course not. We're talking about magic, after all. Supersonic flight was
considered impossible. Now, it happens. It's no longer magic.
>
> >> electricity is neutral. it can be used in good ways or in bad ways.
> >> you are seriously missing a point.
> >If there were magic, it would also likely be neutral, depending on one's
> >motives in using it.
>
> yeah. exactly. and the motives that matter in this context are:
> God-invoked or not.
>
It's scarcely for us to say whether something is God-invoked or not. If
it happens, it must be.
> >> but, ok, take electricity as an example. you electrocute someone, it
> >> is bad. you turn on FOX-television. it is bad. you bring light into
> >> the dark. that is good.
> >> a big part of good/bad is the idea with which you do something.
> >> I know by looking at the kind of magic and the idea behind the action.
> >First, we need some magic to look at.
>
> when saints for example heal people for whom medicine has no cure or
> bring the dead back, they need magic.
>
Spontaneous cures happen in secular contexts, too. It's not that the
cures happen for which medicine has no cure, as there may be one
tommorow.
What they need is a good press agent, and repressive political context to
keep the other side quiet.
Ursula Pfeiffer
> I am an ATHEIST..so, please.. do not pray for me.. or I will get
> very annoyed.
>
opinion?
Ursula
Ashen-shugar
<jbryson-1911...@dialup-65.56.18.159.dial1.richmond1.level3.net
>,
jbr...@infi.net (Jerry bryson) wrote:
As a Catholic, I call it a miracle. But you're not the first to call it
magic. The phrase "hocus pocus," long associated with being a magical
incantation has its origin in "Hoc est enim corpus meum," meaning, "For
this is my body," which is the Latin sentence which was said by the
priest that was identified (in the middle ages) as being the moment for
the transubstatiation of the bread into the body of Christ.
Dark Tyger
The implications behind it are offensive. I'm a pagan, and hell yeah I
get annoyed when Christians tell me "I'll pray for you"...
Dark Tyger
>> ...now, THAT's magic.
>
>As a Catholic, I call it a miracle.
Which is, when you get down to it, the exact same thing.
Michelle Smith
>get annoyed when Christians tell me "I'll pray for you"...
I'm speaking only for myself here:
I believe that trying to manipulate others against their will is evil - which
is why "love spells" are dark magic.
Prayers/spells/meditation serve the same person.
Therefore, when someone focuses their spiritual energy to attempt to force me
into a belief system I find abhorrent, they are practicing evil against me.
Again, just my take on it.
Michelle Smith
(Runs to get her latest issue of Genii and a bottle of Miracle Whip)
Michelle Smith
(Smacks self with fish) PURPOSE.
Kate LAL
Can anyone tell me where i can download the COS movie or buy it?
thanks
OnsenMark
writes:
>Can anyone tell me where i can download the COS movie or buy it?
>thanks
Wait until next year. You can buy it on VHS or DVD then.
If you want to download it, you should expect to get flamed for even asking.
It's better if you wait for the home video...
Mark. 8)
- proud member of the WGPS and the SDA!
-UtenaCode(1.1) U:6 F:Wa+++Ju++ D:Ak->Sh- X:*** a:39++ M:f ZUM(w/Banyuu
Inryoku)
"BE HAPPY FOR ME AND MY SHOE. O_O" - Verthandi
Frank Wustner
> Can anyone tell me where i can download the COS movie or buy it?
> thanks
Go to your local movie theatre and "buy" it there.
--
Frank Wustner
http://frankwustner.myrmid.com/
|-----------------------------------|
|"I, too, believe in fate... |
|the fate a man makes for himself." |
|Lord Soth ("Time of the Twins") |
|-----------------------------------|
| Want to email me? Go to the URL |
| above and email me from there. |
|-----------------------------------|
Michelle Smith
>
>> Can anyone tell me where i can download the COS movie or buy it?
>> thanks
All of WB's hoopla aside, you won't be able to buy and download the film until
sometime next year.
If you want a bootleg, prepare yourself for crap. Do a Yahoo! search on pirate
videos.
david e.g. meijer
>> >> >So, where is it? Any examples? Also please list all the laws of nature.
>> >> >We need to test any example of magic against them all. It would be
>> >> >interesting to watch somebody contradict a law of nature.
>> >> all saints that were canonized needed some wonders. there you find
>> >> your magic.
>> >There you find church politics.
>> explain, please.
>Saints get chosen for political reasons.
that still does not clear them of needing a wonder.
>> >> I will not list all the laws of nature, it is just plain obvious what
>> >> phisically can be achieved and what not.
>> >it wasn't obvious a hundred years ago, nor is it obvious what will be
>> >achieved in the next hundred years.
>> that sounds rather not so scientific.
>"Course not. We're talking about magic, after all. Supersonic flight was
>considered impossible. Now, it happens. It's no longer magic.
course not? then our discussion makes no sense.
>> >> electricity is neutral. it can be used in good ways or in bad ways.
>> >> you are seriously missing a point.
>> >If there were magic, it would also likely be neutral, depending on one's
>> >motives in using it.
>> yeah. exactly. and the motives that matter in this context are:
>> God-invoked or not.
>It's scarcely for us to say whether something is God-invoked or not. If
>it happens, it must be.
it is our decision, wether we do something with or without God.
>> >> but, ok, take electricity as an example. you electrocute someone, it
>> >> is bad. you turn on FOX-television. it is bad. you bring light into
>> >> the dark. that is good.
>> >> a big part of good/bad is the idea with which you do something.
>> >> I know by looking at the kind of magic and the idea behind the action.
>> >First, we need some magic to look at.
>> when saints for example heal people for whom medicine has no cure or
>> bring the dead back, they need magic.
>Spontaneous cures happen in secular contexts, too. It's not that the
>cures happen for which medicine has no cure, as there may be one
>tommorow.
and yout hink that is something they have not thought about? there is
a pretty tough test for all the saints that want to be canonized.
>What they need is a good press agent, and repressive political context to
>keep the other side quiet.
they need the press, most of the time, but I do not see why your other
comments would be more than allegations.
david e.g. meijer
>>The implications behind it are offensive. I'm a pagan, and hell yeah I
>>get annoyed when Christians tell me "I'll pray for you"...
>I'm speaking only for myself here:
I am not.
>I believe that trying to manipulate others against their will is evil - which
>is why "love spells" are dark magic.
I am not trying to manipulate you, I am trying to get a good word for
you at the higher instances.
>Prayers/spells/meditation serve the same person.
that can be a job-description to serve man. (this is in the sense of
human beings, no discrimination involved)
>Therefore, when someone focuses their spiritual energy to attempt to force me
>into a belief system I find abhorrent, they are practicing evil against me.
I did not pray for THAT, I pray for your soul to be saved.
and EVIL is NOT defined, by what you "find abhorrent", but why what IS
ABHORRENT!
and that is not MY take on it, but THE take on it.
Michelle Smith
>me
>>into a belief system I find abhorrent, they are practicing evil against me.
>
>I did not pray for THAT, I pray for your soul to be saved.
By your twisted definition of what you think is the truth, forcing me into a
belief system I find abhorrent is "saving my soul". No thanks.
>and EVIL is NOT defined, by what you "find abhorrent", but why what IS
>ABHORRENT!
Forcing someone into a religion they find abhorrent is evil, and abhorrent.
>and that is not MY take on it, but THE take on it.
Maybe on your planet, but not in reality.
Dark Tyger
>and EVIL is NOT defined, by what you "find abhorrent", but why what IS
>ABHORRENT!
...and what "IS ABHORRENT" is a matter of opinion. Sure, that opinion
can be shaped by a society/religious system, but it is still an
opinion.
david e.g. meijer
>>>Therefore, when someone focuses their spiritual energy to attempt to force
>>me
>>>into a belief system I find abhorrent, they are practicing evil against me.
>>I did not pray for THAT, I pray for your soul to be saved.
>By your twisted definition of what you think is the truth, forcing me into a
>belief system I find abhorrent is "saving my soul". No thanks.
that sentence strikes me as rather uninspired. you definitely did not
refer to my post.
>>and EVIL is NOT defined, by what you "find abhorrent", but why what IS
>>ABHORRENT!
>Forcing someone into a religion they find abhorrent is evil, and abhorrent.
i did not force you into any system.
>>and that is not MY take on it, but THE take on it.
>Maybe on your planet, but not in reality.
this reality IS my planet.
david e.g. meijer
>>and EVIL is NOT defined, by what you "find abhorrent", but why what IS
>>ABHORRENT!
>...and what "IS ABHORRENT" is a matter of opinion. Sure, that opinion
>can be shaped by a society/religious system, but it is still an
>opinion.
no, what is abhorrent is a matter of God.
what you REGARD as abhorrent, that is your personal cup of tea.
Michelle Smith
>
>what you REGARD as abhorrent, that is your personal cup of tea.
>--
Isn't "do not seek to know the mind of G-d" one of your religion's tenants?
Ooooh, you're gonna wear red pajamas and carry around a pitchfork!!!
david e.g. meijer
>>no, what is abhorrent is a matter of God.
>>what you REGARD as abhorrent, that is your personal cup of tea.
>>--
>Isn't "do not seek to know the mind of G-d" one of your religion's tenants?
God has visited us in the flesh of his son and told us a good deal of
his mind. we never can get the whole picture, but I never said
anything else. all I said is that God is the judge, not me, you or
anybody.
>Ooooh, you're gonna wear red pajamas and carry around a pitchfork!!!
I am at the moment, but I would like to kindly ask you to state the
name of the person you refer to on the top of your post. it makes
things easier for me and the other readers.
Barry Gray
jbr...@infi.net (Jerry bryson) wrote:
> In article <3ddb6321...@News.CIS.DFN.de>, monkey...@gmx.at (david
> e.g. meijer) wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:47:37 -0500, (Jerry bryson) wrote:
> >
> >
> > >> I will not list all the laws of nature, it is just plain obvious what
> > >> phisically can be achieved and what not.
> > >it wasn't obvious a hundred years ago, nor is it obvious what will be
> > >achieved in the next hundred years.
> >
> > that sounds rather not so scientific.
Came in half way through this thread, sorry if I have snipped in a way which
loses the correct attributions.
I dislike the word obvious as totally unscientific. If for example you had
lived seven hundred years ago it would have obvious that ships had to be
made out of wood: wood floats, iron sinks. You could not make ships out of
iron. That was obvious. If you had been found trying to make an iron ship
you would have been locked up as mad; if you had actually succeeded in
making an iron ship you would have been burnt as a witch - it was obvious
that you must have used witchcraft.
Today it is obvious to most people that the only way to relieve road
congestion is to build more roads.
--
Barry Gray
http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
david e.g. meijer
>> > >> I will not list all the laws of nature, it is just plain obvious what
>> > >> phisically can be achieved and what not.
>> > >it wasn't obvious a hundred years ago, nor is it obvious what will be
>> > >achieved in the next hundred years.
>> > that sounds rather not so scientific.
>I dislike the word obvious as totally unscientific. If for example you had
>lived seven hundred years ago it would have obvious that ships had to be
>made out of wood: wood floats, iron sinks. You could not make ships out of
>iron. That was obvious. If you had been found trying to make an iron ship
>you would have been locked up as mad; if you had actually succeeded in
>making an iron ship you would have been burnt as a witch - it was obvious
>that you must have used witchcraft.
>
>Today it is obvious to most people that the only way to relieve road
>congestion is to build more roads.
the use of the word "obvious" was not meant to indicate that something
is obviously a law of nature, but that something is clearly seen as
such.
in other words
do not ask, what the laws of nature are, as it is clear, what I am
talking about.
the other point is a question of what to call science. of course you
know better in hindsight, but the actual science as a
post-enlightenment one should qualify as solid. what is still unknown
for science can not be a point for calling it magic.
Jerry bryson
e.g. meijer) wrote:
> >Saints get chosen for political reasons.
>
> that still does not clear them of needing a wonder.
No problem. Thr church wants a saint, it will find wonders.
>
> >> >> I will not list all the laws of nature, it is just plain obvious what
> >> >> phisically can be achieved and what not.
> >> >it wasn't obvious a hundred years ago, nor is it obvious what will be
> >> >achieved in the next hundred years.
> >> that sounds rather not so scientific.
> >"Course not. We're talking about magic, after all. Supersonic flight was
> >considered impossible. Now, it happens. It's no longer magic.
>
> course not? then our discussion makes no sense.
'Course not. Magic isn't about making sense.
>
> it is our decision, wether we do something with or without God.
We end up doing God's will. Our decision is whether to enjoy doing it.
>
> >Spontaneous cures happen in secular contexts, too. It's not that the
> >cures happen for which medicine has no cure, as there may be one
> >tommorow.
>
> and yout hink that is something they have not thought about? there is
> a pretty tough test for all the saints that want to be canonized.
It all comes down to the science known at the time canonization is being
considered. The judge knows of no natural way the wonder could have
happened; therefore it is a miracle.
>
> >What they need is a good press agent, and repressive political context to
> >keep the other side quiet.
>
> they need the press, most of the time, but I do not see why your other
> comments would be more than allegations.
Ve vill see...
Tim Bruening
CiNnaMoN BoMb 3 wrote:
> i'm a lurker in this NG and today when my history teacher (at a PUBLIC school)
> gave us a lecture on "the evils of harry potter"... i couldn't resist but to
> share it with this NG.
> Heres pretty much the jist of it: she just kept blabbing about how he is
> anti-christian and is going to corrupt our youth. she was talking about some
> book burning in another state and how she wanted to have one here. how she's
> trying to get our school library to get rid of the harry potter books. and she
> was citing examples from the text ...all of course TOTALLY out of context. she
> was like encouraging us to accept god and ** "becoming a witch won't make you
> cool" ** and yea, it was just stupid, imo! it's really starting to make me mad
> because she has always made it clear to us her despisal of harry potter but
> this is the first time she basically devoted an ENTIRE class to lecturing us
> about how we shouldn't go see this movie because tha'ts only giving money to
> the devil. one of the most unbelievable quotes was something like this: "i will
> be very dissapointed if i EVER see one of you kids reading the harry potter
> books again"
>
> so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a christian, isn't
> he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan... he
> didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
I've never seen Harry Potter or any other wizard in church.
Ron D
On 13-Dec-2002, Tim Bruening <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> Path:
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> From: Tim Bruening <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U)
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> Subject: Re: my history teacher doesn't like harry potter
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Two Points
#1--The only religous references with the exception of the WORD witch are all Christian.
#2--What would she consider the Fat Friar?
Ron D.
Kish
>
> #1--The only religous references with the exception of the WORD witch are all Christian.
And where are they? I've run across very few (none, unless you count
exclamations). No one seems to go to church or pray. There are no
references to God (except exclaimations, again).
>
> #2--What would she consider the Fat Friar?
Probably a Christian, yes.
Brian Henderson
<tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>I've never seen Harry Potter or any other wizard in church.
And that's a bad thing?
John VanSickle
>
> #2--What would she consider the Fat Friar?
The Chip Monk?
Ron D
On 13-Dec-2002, Kish <Kis...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Ron D wrote:
>
> >
> > #1--The only religous references with the exception of the WORD witch are all Christian.
>
> And where are they? I've run across very few (none, unless you count
> exclamations). No one seems to go to church or pray. There are no
> references to God (except exclaimations, again).
Exactly my point...There are 3 main ones. They celebrate Christmas. They celebrate Easter. One of
the ghosts is a friar. Basicly that's it for ALL religeous references. Being a Witch or Wizard in
the HP Universe is a condition of birth, not choice.
>
> >
> > #2--What would she consider the Fat Friar?
>
> Probably a Christian, yes.
And a Wizard. And a ghost.
End of Discussion.
Ron D.
Andrew
> i'm a lurker in this NG and today when my history teacher (at a PUBLIC school)
> gave us a lecture on "the evils of harry potter"... i couldn't resist but to
> share it with this NG.
> Heres pretty much the jist of it: she just kept blabbing about how he is
> anti-christian and is going to corrupt our youth. she was talking about some
> book burning in another state and how she wanted to have one here. how she's
> trying to get our school library to get rid of the harry potter books. and she
> was citing examples from the text ...all of course TOTALLY out of context. she
> was like encouraging us to accept god and ** "becoming a witch won't make you
> cool" ** and yea, it was just stupid, imo! it's really starting to make me mad
> because she has always made it clear to us her despisal of harry potter but
> this is the first time she basically devoted an ENTIRE class to lecturing us
> about how we shouldn't go see this movie because tha'ts only giving money to
> the devil. one of the most unbelievable quotes was something like this: "i will
> be very dissapointed if i EVER see one of you kids reading the harry potter
> books again"
>
> so this concludes my random thought. ......harry potter is a christian, isn't
> he?? he celebrates christmas and easter. there's no way he is a wiccan... he
> didn't even know that he was a wizard until he was 11!
What is seriously disturbing about this email is the fact that your
teacher is openly preaching religion at public school in the United
States. This is flagrant violation of your constitutional rights;
something about disestablishment clause of the second amendment of
your constitution.
If you are a brave young person, you should bring this to the
attention of your local school board. If your teacher wants to shove
her religious beliefs down her student's throats, she should get out
of the public system and start teaching in a parochial school.
Cheers
Andrew
Thomas Madura
ASk the teacher what she thinks about Hitler, or Herod, or Ghengis Khan
- aren't they even worse than Harry Potter - so why doesn't she
recommend no one read about them either?
(Who could be more devilish than Hitler was?)
Tom Holt
from bo...@lao.on.ca (Andrew) contains these words:
> What is seriously disturbing about this email is the fact that your
> teacher is openly preaching religion at public school in the United
> States. This is flagrant violation of your constitutional rights;
> something about disestablishment clause of the second amendment of
> your constitution.
The Second Amendment is certainly an essential part of the Constitution
and a basic freedom against which teachers in school have no place to
preach. However, it's not the amendment you had in mind.
Try the First;
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Tennant Stuart
"Ron D" <rwd...@internetcds.com> wrote:
> On 13-Dec-2002, Kish <Kis...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> Ron D wrote:
>>> #1--The only religous references with the exception of the WORD witch
>>> are all Christian.
>> And where are they? I've run across very few (none, unless you count
>> exclamations). No one seems to go to church or pray. There are no
>> references to God (except exclaimations, again).
> Exactly my point...There are 3 main ones. They celebrate Christmas. They
> celebrate Easter. One of the ghosts is a friar. Basicly that's it for
> ALL religeous references. Beinga Witch or Wizard in the HP Universe is a
> condition of birth, not choice.
Britain just isn't a religious country, unlike the USA.
Tennant Stuart
--
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