Hogwarts in Scotland?
nimue
Trond wrote:
<Since Hogwarts is in Scotland, probably even in the north of Scotland,
the sky should be blueish even at midnight>
Why do you think it's in Scotland?
Just curious.
Cheers
Nimue.
--
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InsaneScouter
been to the United Kingdom, but from reading the first book and going by the
train station Harry leaves from and how long the trip takes, I am guessing
it may be Scotland? Thank you.
A: You are absolutely right. If you travel north from King's Cross, you do
indeed arrive in Scotland.
taken from:
Online Chat with J.K. Rowling, Barnes & Noble, 8 September 1999
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.net/bnchat3.shtml
InsaneScouter
http://insanescouter.com Webmaster
webm...@insanescouter.org
"nimue" <ni...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:4E4Z8.36456$Hj3.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Rain Forests
> Trond wrote:
> <Since Hogwarts is in Scotland, probably even in the north of
> Scotland, the sky should be blueish even at midnight>
>
> Why do you think it's in Scotland?
> Just curious.
> Cheers
> Nimue.
- The direction full north taken by the train
- The remark in the little book on magical animals and where to find them (I
don't know the exact title in English) about the acromantula (very big
spiders Harry met in CoS) : something like "it is said that there is a
colony of acromantula in Scotland, but it has never been confirmed" (it is
not the exact words of the book - but it is the idea) and Ron or Harry hand
writing adds "this fact is confirmed by Ron Weasley and Harry Potter"
Richard Sliwa
the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
> nimue wrote:
>> Trond wrote:
>> <Since Hogwarts is in Scotland, probably even in the north of
>> Scotland, the sky should be blueish even at midnight>
>>
>> Why do you think it's in Scotland?
>> Just curious.
>> Cheers
>> Nimue.
> - The time taken from London
> - The direction full north taken by the train
> - The remark in the little book on magical animals and where to find
> them (I don't know the exact title in English) about the acromantula
> (very big spiders Harry met in CoS) : something like "it is said that
> there is a colony of acromantula in Scotland, but it has never been
> confirmed" (it is not the exact words of the book - but it is the
> idea) and Ron or Harry hand writing adds "this fact is confirmed by
> Ron Weasley and Harry Potter"
Also, Ron & Harry's flying car in CoS was sighted over Peebles en route to
Hogwarts. There are two places of that name in the UK, and both are in
Scotland.
Peter Lobley
"nimue" <ni...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:4E4Z8.36456$Hj3.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
>
Richard Sliwa
following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
> Logic aside - I am willing to bet that it's not in scotland.
What a bizarre statement!
So just *why* do you refuse to accept the "logical" approach?
Peter Lobley
"Richard Sliwa" <ju...@plum.cream.org> wrote in message
news:Xns924F14B...@195.8.68.206...
Because JKR probably wasn't thinking as logicaly (or more accurately -
analy) as the members of this newsgroup when she wrote the books.
simple.
why would she make hogwarts be in scotland? unless she has scotish
connections herself.
Richard Sliwa
the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
>
> "Richard Sliwa" <ju...@plum.cream.org> wrote in message
> news:Xns924F14B...@195.8.68.206...
>> On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:50:35 GMT, Peter Lobley borrowed Hedwig to
>> send the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
>>
>> > Logic aside - I am willing to bet that it's not in scotland.
>>
>> What a bizarre statement!
>>
>> So just *why* do you refuse to accept the "logical" approach?
>>
>
> Because JKR probably wasn't thinking as logicaly (or more accurately -
> analy) as the members of this newsgroup when she wrote the books.
>
> simple.
She might not be as anal as some people around here, but she is (largely)
*consistent*. A train journey from Kings Cross which leaves at 11am and
arrives at its destination after nightfall is a bit of a giveway.
> why would she make hogwarts be in scotland? unless she has scotish
> connections herself.
Well, she does. Her sister lives there. So does she, and perhaps more
importantly, she did at the time the first HP book was written. Perhaps
more importantly still, journeys from Kings Cross to Scotland are something
she knows well...
Peter Lobley
heck, it probably is in scotland. I don't know, I am drunk (I was trying to
be 'clever' which is not a good idea when drunk)
But.. refusing to accept the logical approach is valid IMO because IME the
'logic' that most newsgroup inhabitants use is similair (in most
cases/newsgroups) to the kind of logic that conspiracy theorists use.
therefore - invalid/silly.
maybe this newsgroup is an exception. I don't know because I have been
incapacitated throughout this thread conversation.
Peter Lobley
well that explains it.
Thomas Madura
Peter Lobley wrote:
>
> Logic aside - I am willing to bet that it's not in scotland.
>
Of course you know best. After all - Hogwarts doesn't really exist - so
to be in Scotland - then Scotland would have to be a fictional place
also. However - I am pretty sure that there will always be a Scotland -
for real.
Steven DeMonnin
Richard Sliwa wrote:
To answer the orignal question, The sky would be still bluish because
of the high northern lattitude. Total dark at that lattitude in late
summer would not come until way late at night.
And Edinborough, where Rowling did most of the righting for the first
four books is at 56* north. You are getting close to midnight sun
territory at that lattitude
I remember when I visited Glasgow in December, it seemed that full
dayllight only lasted from about 8:30 till 2:30.
Given the fact that the Hogwarts Express is a steam engine, and and
Express route, they could be as far north as Sunderland county in nine
hours. the suprising thing is the car in CoS could keep up Even in
the modern trains the trip to Inverness takes just slightly more than
eight hours according to British Rail (Depart King Cross at 12:00 arrive
Inverness 8:08)
rnrdawgy
news:bA7Z8.3524$L02.1...@news1.west.cox.net...
> Q: Is Hogwarts possibly located in Scotland? I am an American and have
never
> been to the United Kingdom, but from reading the first book and going by
the
> train station Harry leaves from and how long the trip takes, I am guessing
> it may be Scotland? Thank you.
>
> A: You are absolutely right. If you travel north from King's Cross, you do
> indeed arrive in Scotland.
>
> taken from:
> Online Chat with J.K. Rowling, Barnes & Noble, 8 September 1999
> http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.net/bnchat3.shtml
Well, that explains the accent of the (rather devastatingly attractive)
Oliver Wood in the Philosopher's Stone movie. I mean, aside from the fact
that Sean Biggerstaff is from Glasgow.
--
Sarah
..::and maybe some faith would do me good::..
Chris Share
(rey...@aracnet.com) said...
>Given the fact that the Hogwarts Express is a steam engine, and and
>Express route, they could be as far north as Sunderland county in nine
>hours. the suprising thing is the car in CoS could keep up
I don't see why... The Hogwarts Express could quite possibly go at over
100mph, even 120 is possible. Now that would almost certainly be beyond
a muggle ford angular.... but this is a magic one, remember? :)
Probably somewhat faster than the standard version.
chris
Manda
wrote:
Sean Biggerstaff *sigh* :-)
But it does make you wonder if the Hogwarts Express is the only way
for students to get to Hogwarts (other than stealing a flying car).
For Scottish students it would seem rather silly to travel all the way
down to London just to wind up back in Scotland.
Manda
Rain Forests
Maybe as proposed by another one here, London King's Cross is not the only
place from which it is possible to get into the wizzard station, and nothing
says that some students don't arrive differently
Scott Peterson
>A: You are absolutely right. If you travel north from King's Cross, you do
>indeed arrive in Scotland.
Well, if you travel north from anywhere in England there are only two
alternatives. Salt water or Scotland.
Scott Peterson
--
All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
Jonathan Buzzard
Scott Peterson <scottp4.remo...@mindspring.com> writes:
> "InsaneScouter" <webm...@insanescouter.org> wrote:
>
>>A: You are absolutely right. If you travel north from King's Cross, you do
>>indeed arrive in Scotland.
>
> Well, if you travel north from anywhere in England there are only two
> alternatives. Salt water or Scotland.
>
A whole range of starting places would leave you in Wales.
JAB.
--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jona...@buzzard.org.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44(0)1661-832195
Mike Bristow
Jonathan Buzzard <jona...@buzzard.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <ujjd5bm...@news.supernews.com>,
> Scott Peterson <scottp4.remo...@mindspring.com> writes:
>> Well, if you travel north from anywhere in England there are only two
>> alternatives. Salt water or Scotland.
>
> A whole range of starting places would leave you in Wales.
Salt water would be prefereble.
--
You can't do maths without e
-- David Walters
Scott Peterson
>A whole range of starting places would leave you in Wales.
and then......?
Scott Peterson
--
The world is full of willing people:
some willing to work and some willing
to let them.
BSL
> In article <ujjd5bm...@news.supernews.com>,
> Scott Peterson <scottp4.remo...@mindspring.com> writes:
> > "InsaneScouter" <webm...@insanescouter.org> wrote:
> >
> >>A: You are absolutely right. If you travel north from King's Cross, you do
> >>indeed arrive in Scotland.
> >
> > Well, if you travel north from anywhere in England there are only two
> > alternatives. Salt water or Scotland.
> >
>
> A whole range of starting places would leave you in Wales.
>
> JAB.
How long would it take to get to Scotland from kings cross...I mean it
took the Hogwarts Express a better part of 10 or 12 hours in guessing
I mean 10 or 12 hours...just wondering thats all.
BSL
But then i would take Hagrid a couple of trips wouldn't to get across
the lake if students arived by different means right...and in the
books once he's there he stays there and thats normally with all the
students. The first years need to be sorted and tavel by boat across
the lake so if not all the students arrive differently or at differnt
times that could imply waves of first years to be sorted not just the
ones from kings cross...who know im sure JK never though about us
picking apart her books so throghly that maybe she didn't pick up loop
holes in the story line...
Thomas Madura
1 - I don't know about Scotland - but here in the States there are more
than one set of rails at a station - so more than one train could arrive
at the same time. It is conceivable that trains could arrive from the
north and south at the same or close to the same time and meet Hagrid -
and then go to Hogwarts.
2 - Clearly - going by boat is the slower method of arriving since the
other students are in the great hall by the time the first years arrive.
3- Based on JKR saying that there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts -
in seven years that is about 140-150 per year (Assuming more at the
beginning but some don't make it - drop out or removed)
150 Freshmen - even at 30 seconds per sort - would take over an hour to
sort and probably more like two hours - more than enough time for
several waves of first years to arrive IF that was needed.
Steven DeMonnin
BSL wrote:
British rail's current service takes 8 hours and two minuts from Kings
Cross to Inverness, one of the most distant large cities in Scotland
from London. I guess from the text that the trip takes about nine
hours, which would result in a trip into Sunderland county, beyond
Inverness. A much longer trip would result in the train traveling into
the North Sea. Continental Trains have smaller grades than US trains
and so they travel faster. Amtrack, by contrast with British rail takes
21 hours to get to San Francisco from Portland, OR. Los Angeles is an
additional nine hours.
Harry Egerton
"BSL" <Dragon...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:8e20e0f.02072...@posting.google.com...
One thing I never understood was if hogwarts is in the muggle world then why
do they all need to travel on a magical train. It says in one if not more of
the books that Hogwarts is protected by some magical powers which mean that
if any muggle is nearing it then they are instantly reminded that they have
something to do. So if Hogwarts exists in the muggle world then why travel
on a magical train. Furthermore, when harry is travelling to Hogwarts a
landscape is described that is distinctly non English and muggle like
instead more magical. Which provides even more confusion. Oh well, let's
hope JKR can hurry up with that 5th book and give us something new to talk
about instead attempting to anaylse the old books.
Richard Sliwa
the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
<snip>
> One thing I never understood was if hogwarts is in the muggle world
> then why do they all need to travel on a magical train.
Err... the wizarding world and the Muggle world aren't two parallel
universes with an independent existence. They both share the same physical
space and geography, only that for the protection of the magical community,
they choose to hide bits of it from the eyes of Muggles by various means.
Whilst it's true that the Hogwarts Express is a bit out of place in the way
we know the magical community maintains itself (as there are several other
means of transport available to them). As far as we know, the train itself
isn't magical, and neither is platform 9 3/4. It is *getting* onto platform
9 3/4 that's available only to wizarding folk. Furthermore, from comments
at the beginning of CoS, it's clear that the entrance to Platform 9 3/4
isn't permanent
> It says in one
> if not more of the books that Hogwarts is protected by some magical
> powers which mean that if any muggle is nearing it then they are
> instantly reminded that they have something to do. So if Hogwarts
> exists in the muggle world then why travel on a magical train.
Well, it's a way for magical kids to travel together unaccompanied but in
safety to get to Hogwarts. It's no different from a school bus in that
respect. Except it has a bit further to travel and picks all the kids up
from the same place rather than at various stopping points en route.
> Furthermore, when harry is travelling to Hogwarts a landscape is
> described that is distinctly non English and muggle like instead more
> magical.
Sorry, which landscape? Nothing in the (scant) descriptions of what we can
see through the windows is out of place for a journey from London to the
Scottish hinterland.
> Which provides even more confusion. Oh well, let's hope JKR
> can hurry up with that 5th book and give us something new to talk
> about instead attempting to anaylse the old books.
I'll second that - the number of scenarios for connecting bits of the plot
together is growing exponentially, and some people find it difficult to
forget that it's just a story and spend too much time poking holes in the
fabric of the first four books.
However, there are lots of other good books to read. There are libraries
full of them. Those impatient for Book Five should perhaps take their minds
off th wait by reading something else.
Tennant Stuart
<Thom-...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Based on JKR saying that there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts -
> in seven years that is about 140-150 per year (Assuming more at the
> beginning but some don't make it - drop out or removed)
Can this be so? Granted there must be more students in Harry's first
year than are named, but can't we at least be certain that only eight
of them (Brown, Finnigan, Granger, Longbottom, Patil, Potter, Thomas,
and Weasley) ended up in Gryffindor? And if so, why so few?
If there were as many as 150 per year, why do houses have to be
combined to make up the numbers for a class? In PS, twenty brooms
were provided for Gryffindor & Slytherin; in CoS, the same figure
was mentioned at the Herbology class for Gryffindor & Hufflepuff.
This suggests 12 students each for Slytherin & Hufflepuff, about 40
for Harry's year, and something like 250 students for all Hogwarts.
Tennant Stuart
--
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Moxie
"Tennant Stuart" <ten...@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:na.06dd834b5c...@argonet.co.uk...
One idea:
http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/hogwarts_howmany.html
He mentions this reference:
Don't know if there are 1000. Below is a reference from PoA.
There were 200 Slytherin supporters. Does this include many
teachers? Likely that all the students were there. So, with
this reference there are ~800+ students at Hogwart's.
His other ideas (length of sorting, number of teachers, more
Gryffindors) make me a little skeptical.
"Behind the Slytherin goal posts, however, two hundred people were
wearing green; the silver serpent of Slytherin glittered on their flags, and
Professor Snape sat in the very front row, wearing green like everyone else,
and a very grim smile." PoA: Chapter 15.
Only JKR said in:
Scholastic Online Chat Transcript
© Scholastic, October 6, 2000
How many students attend Hogwarts, and how many students per year per house?
There are about a thousand students at Hogwarts.
robot prom
>
> http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/hogwarts_howmany.html
>
> He mentions this reference:
> Don't know if there are 1000. Below is a reference from PoA.
> There were 200 Slytherin supporters. Does this include many
> teachers? Likely that all the students were there. So, with
> this reference there are ~800+ students at Hogwart's.
> His other ideas (length of sorting, number of teachers, more
> Gryffindors) make me a little skeptical.
> "Behind the Slytherin goal posts, however, two hundred people were
>
> wearing green; the silver serpent of Slytherin glittered on their flags, and
>
> Professor Snape sat in the very front row, wearing green like everyone else,
>
> and a very grim smile." PoA: Chapter 15.
>
>
>
> Only JKR said in:
> Scholastic Online Chat Transcript
> © Scholastic, October 6, 2000
>
> How many students attend Hogwarts, and how many students per year per house?
> There are about a thousand students at Hogwarts.
I've always wondered how many of those 200 are students, and how many of them
are alumni? I would imagine that at the Quidditch Cup game some Slytherin
alumni might show up. Could there be two (or more) seating sections for
Slytherin?
Another thing I noticed: In the movie, when they show the Slytherin crowd,
someone who looks like Filch in the crowd. Filch's attitude toward students
(and poltergeists) would be explained by being from a Slytherin family.
Thomas Madura
Tennant Stuart wrote:
>
> In article <3D42D617...@worldnet.att.net>, Thomas Madura
> <Thom-...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > Based on JKR saying that there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts -
> > in seven years that is about 140-150 per year (Assuming more at the
> > beginning but some don't make it - drop out or removed)
>
> Can this be so? Granted there must be more students in Harry's first
> year than are named, but can't we at least be certain that only eight
> of them (Brown, Finnigan, Granger, Longbottom, Patil, Potter, Thomas,
> and Weasley) ended up in Gryffindor? And if so, why so few?
>
> If there were as many as 150 per year, why do houses have to be
> combined to make up the numbers for a class? In PS, twenty brooms
> were provided for Gryffindor & Slytherin; in CoS, the same figure
> was mentioned at the Herbology class for Gryffindor & Hufflepuff.
>
> This suggests 12 students each for Slytherin & Hufflepuff, about 40
> for Harry's year, and something like 250 students for all Hogwarts.
JKR herself said there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts - so divide
by 7 years and allow a small amount for failure and drop-out and that
comes to 140-150 per year.
As far s combining classes between houses - there is no mention that
this is "required" = just that it is done. Clearly - there are a number
of path's of study a Wizard could follow - like a "major" in our world.
There are a number of "electives" that a wizard could use to guide his
study - but are not required - such as divination. These classes would
logically require students from other houses to combine. Maybe the rest
are simply a social thing - to prevent the houses from being cut off
completely from each other.
Please note - if there were only 40 students per year at Hogwarts - and
IF Hogwars were the only wizarding school in Great Britain - then you
are looking at a wizarding population of only 2-3000 - definitely not
enough to support diagon alley alone.
Lauren
house?
> There are about a thousand students at Hogwarts.
Maybe a few hundred have stayed on to do research ??
Lauren
Simon.
I would say that is too slow since Draco gets sorted even before the
hat touches his head !
About 2-3 seconds
And Harry took about 1 minute at the other extreme so by using a hand
in the air argument it could mean that most pupils only take 15-20
seconds or less with an exponential distribution.
Simon.
Please remove Brackets to mail me.
Simon.
Well since Hogwarts is "unplottable" and any place in the North Sea
would be Sea and not land so any land out there would be "virutal" or
"complex" which would also be "unplottable" on a number line.
Therefore Hogwarts is "on" the North sea !
Conjectures - Ain't they fun :-)
TeeJa
> British rail's current service takes 8 hours and two minuts from Kings
> Cross to Inverness, one of the most distant large cities in Scotland
> from London.
There has been no such thing as British Rail for years. The railways were
privatised long ago.
Also time depends on the the service you take. GNER (Great North Eastern
Railways) will take you up the east coast via York and Newcastle (and of
course Durham where a lot the scenes from the film were shot and where I
went to university!)
... and get you into Scotland in only a few short hours (speed delays
aside).
Also the main destinations for people on the way to Scotland are Edinburgh
or Glasgow - Inverness is a bit remote unless you are on the way to
Balmoral castle. Its very nice up there though!
http://www.balmoralcastle.com/
http://www.onlinescotland.com/html/regions/inverness/act.html
A better bet for the location of Hogwarts may be somewhere in Northumberland
which is actually in north East England, but close to the Scottish borders,
which is all about rugged coast and old castles and home to the Holy isle
Lindisfarne
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/scripts/nthandbook.dll?ACTION=PROPERTY&PROPE
RTYID=183
http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/vg/rcastle.html#f
>I guess from the text that the trip takes about nine
> hours, which would result in a trip into Sunderland county, beyond
> Inverness.
Doné forget the the Hogwarts express is a steam train - its not as fast as
the high-speed trains that use the east coast line. Also the GNER service
tends to run from platform platform 2-5. Not sure where the trains from 9+
went to..
Best way to find out - if you are in the US or elsewhere get on a plane and
come and have a look - there are more 'Hogwarts-type' places than you can
shake a stick at!
PS I'm not a train spotter and doné work for the English tourist board!
TJR,
London
Steven DeMonnin
TeeJa wrote:
> Thatšs the trouble with getting information off the net!
>
>
>
>>British rail's current service takes 8 hours and two minuts from Kings
>>Cross to Inverness, one of the most distant large cities in Scotland
>>from London.
>>
>
> There has been no such thing as British Rail for years. The railways were
> privatised long ago.
There is some information agency on the net that is selling tickets, I
would imagine it is some sort of tourist agency doing it. Tickets were
pretty reasonable too.
>
> Also time depends on the the service you take. GNER (Great North Eastern
> Railways) will take you up the east coast via York and Newcastle (and of
> course Durham where a lot the scenes from the film were shot and where I
> went to university!)
>
> http://www.durham.ac.uk
>
> ... and get you into Scotland in only a few short hours (speed delays
> aside).
>
> http://www.GNER.co.uk/
>
>
> Also the main destinations for people on the way to Scotland are Edinburgh
> or Glasgow - Inverness is a bit remote unless you are on the way to
> Balmoral castle. Its very nice up there though!
>
> http://www.balmoralcastle.com/
>
> http://www.onlinescotland.com/html/regions/inverness/act.html
>
> A better bet for the location of Hogwarts may be somewhere in Northumberland
> which is actually in north East England, but close to the Scottish borders,
> which is all about rugged coast and old castles and home to the Holy isle
> Lindisfarne
>
> http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/scripts/nthandbook.dll?ACTION=PROPERTY&PROPE
> RTYID=183
>
> http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/vg/rcastle.html#f
>
>
>
>>I guess from the text that the trip takes about nine
>>hours, which would result in a trip into Sunderland county, beyond
>>Inverness.
>>
>
> Donšt forget the the Hogwarts express is a steam train - its not as fast as
> the high-speed trains that use the east coast line. Also the GNER service
> tends to run from platform platform 2-5. Not sure where the trains from 9+
> went to..
>
> Best way to find out - if you are in the US or elsewhere get on a plane and
> come and have a look - there are more 'Hogwarts-type' places than you can
> shake a stick at!
>
>
> PS I'm not a train spotter and donšt work for the English tourist board!
>
> TJR,
>
> London
>
>
Well, I got my information from the Scottish Tourist board, and you are
a lot better then they are.
Steam trains are actually faster than diesels, but the diesals run with
a smaller crew and don't require regular refills of water. The real
fast trains these days are electrics, but the fastest in UK train was
the Flying Scottsman, when it was steam.
Been to the UK once, back in the mid eightees. Couldn't go very far
because I was denpendent on public transportation. What I remember most
abouit the trains was that Edinburgh had two train stations less than a
mile apart, and that there was some big difference in taking a trains
from Glasgow to either of those stations. Also there was the weirdness
of a couple of locations where if you wanted to get there, you had to
change trains to a short five minute commuter from the main line, even
thought trains ran often to both places. Windsor-London was like this,
as you had to change in Slough, for some bizzare reason I never understood.
Saw York, and York Minster just after they repaired it. Very nice trip.
TeeJa
> Steam trains are actually faster than diesels, but the diesals run with
> a smaller crew and don't require regular refills of water. The real
> fast trains these days are electrics, but the fastest in UK train was
> the Flying Scottsman, when it was steam.
Fair point! The east coast line is mostly electrified and I think the
fastest in Britain (and I think uses the same route as the flying Scotsman!)
I can get up to York on GNER in about 2 hours, another 35 mins or so to
Durham (same line) and into Edinburgh in under 4 if I catch the fast train.
It a lovely journey though. However, The shot of the Hogwarts express going
over the bridge nearly flattening the invisible car in the COS trailer is
the Settle to Carlisle line, which is in the Northwest of England, Carlisle
being a town on the Scottish boarder.
http://www.visitcumbria.com/carlset/carlset2.htm
Coincidently, Hogwarts station (as used in the film) is actually Goathland
Station in North Yorkshire and part of the North Yorkshire Moors railway
where my wife worked to earn pocket money while she was at school! Its a
tourist attraction rather than a working railway - and they still use steam
trains.
http://www.whitby-uk.com/goathlandhotel/
>
> Been to the UK once, back in the mid eightees. Couldn't go very far
> because I was denpendent on public transportation. What I remember most
> abouit the trains was that Edinburgh had two train stations less than a
> mile apart, and that there was some big difference in taking a trains
> from Glasgow to either of those stations. Also there was the weirdness
> of a couple of locations where if you wanted to get there, you had to
> change trains to a short five minute commuter from the main line, even
> thought trains ran often to both places. Windsor-London was like this,
> as you had to change in Slough, for some bizzare reason I never understood.
Its a process of the organic growth or of the railways over the past 100 or
so years in this country, the closure of may line in the 60's under the
Beeching report, (meaning that to get from 'A' to 'C' after 'B' was closed
became a little tricky) and the shifting of the industrial base. (industrial
areas that were serviced by major railways stations ceased to be but the
stations remain)
Pre 60's see:
http://www.joyce.whitchurch.btinternet.co.uk/maps/BR1961c.jpg (this is a big
image and takes time to load)
Present service:
http://www.trainweb.org/girr/england/rail_map.html
TJR
... Honestly not a train-spotter but Live in London, went to School in
Durham parents live near York and sister lived near Glasgow - so use the
train a lot!
Jonathan Buzzard
Simon. <(simonj)@(sjbwool)(.freeserve.co.uk)> writes:
[SNIP]
>
> I would say that is too slow since Draco gets sorted even before the
> hat touches his head !
>
> About 2-3 seconds
>
> And Harry took about 1 minute at the other extreme so by using a hand
> in the air argument it could mean that most pupils only take 15-20
> seconds or less with an exponential distribution.
That is for the actual time with the hat on the head. You need to
add in time for the name to be called out and for them to walk to
the stool. Even at 30 seconds a sort in total it would take over
two hours. However we know from book three that it does not take
anywhere near this amount of time. Conclusion there are less pupils
than JKR said at interview.
Jonathan Buzzard
Thomas Madura <Thom-...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
>
> Tennant Stuart wrote:
>>
>> In article <3D42D617...@worldnet.att.net>, Thomas Madura
>> <Thom-...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Based on JKR saying that there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts -
>> > in seven years that is about 140-150 per year (Assuming more at the
>> > beginning but some don't make it - drop out or removed)
>>
>> Can this be so? Granted there must be more students in Harry's first
>> year than are named, but can't we at least be certain that only eight
>> of them (Brown, Finnigan, Granger, Longbottom, Patil, Potter, Thomas,
>> and Weasley) ended up in Gryffindor? And if so, why so few?
>>
>> If there were as many as 150 per year, why do houses have to be
>> combined to make up the numbers for a class? In PS, twenty brooms
>> were provided for Gryffindor & Slytherin; in CoS, the same figure
>> was mentioned at the Herbology class for Gryffindor & Hufflepuff.
>>
>> This suggests 12 students each for Slytherin & Hufflepuff, about 40
>> for Harry's year, and something like 250 students for all Hogwarts.
>
> JKR herself said there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts - so divide
> by 7 years and allow a small amount for failure and drop-out and that
> comes to 140-150 per year.
But that does not fit in with what is written in the books. Which
has much lower totals full stop. For example only 100 horseless
carriages that seat four maximum and are all fully occupied are
used to move years 2-7 from the station to the school.
There is also a combined maximum of 20 students in Gryffindor and
Slytherin in Harrys year. So the other two houses must have a
disproporionate number of students.
Also that note book that JKR showed on the television at Christmas
has no where near 140 names in it.
So what we have is a set of books written around a much lower total,
and an off the cuff remark in an interview that does not tarry with
the evidence in the books.
>
> Please note - if there were only 40 students per year at Hogwarts - and
> IF Hogwars were the only wizarding school in Great Britain - then you
> are looking at a wizarding population of only 2-3000 - definitely not
> enough to support diagon alley alone.
How do you figure that? Given the much longer life span of wizards
that does not figure. I went to a school of about 800, which was
supported from a population of about 20,000 in the villages that
sent children to the school. Given witches and wizards live twice
as long I would say that we could double that population size.
Jonathan Buzzard
TeeJa <t...@electra.prestel.co.uk> writes:
> Thatıs the trouble with getting information off the net!
>
>
>> British rail's current service takes 8 hours and two minuts from Kings
>> Cross to Inverness, one of the most distant large cities in Scotland
>> from London.
>
> There has been no such thing as British Rail for years. The railways were
> privatised long ago.
I will take a large bet that British Rail still exist. Well I won't
because I am nice and I would be robbing you blind but they do still exist.
However Hogwarts is in Scotland period. See the URL below for the
conclusive evidence from the books for this,
http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/hptheories.html
>
> A better bet for the location of Hogwarts may be somewhere in Northumberland
> which is actually in north East England, but close to the Scottish borders,
> which is all about rugged coast and old castles and home to the Holy isle
> Lindisfarne
Except see above, no can do. Anyway there are no large runined castles
in Northumberland by lakes:)
>
> Donıt forget the the Hogwarts express is a steam train - its not as fast as
> the high-speed trains that use the east coast line. Also the GNER service
> tends to run from platform platform 2-5. Not sure where the trains from 9+
> went to..
Yeah, right but it did not take the Flying Scotsman eight hours to go from
Kings Cross to Edinburgh though did it, and that is not even the fastest
steam train. Actually the timetabled times for the east coast main line
are bearly shorter than they where 50 years ago when it was all steam.
Tennant Stuart
<Thom-...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Tennant Stuart wrote:
>> In article <3D42D617...@worldnet.att.net>, Thomas Madura
>> <Thom-...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>> Based on JKR saying that there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts -
>>> in seven years that is about 140-150 per year (Assuming more at the
>>> beginning but some don't make it - drop out or removed)
>> Can this be so? Granted there must be more students in Harry's first
>> year than are named, but can't we at least be certain that only eight
>> of them (Brown, Finnigan, Granger, Longbottom, Patil, Potter, Thomas,
>> and Weasley) ended up in Gryffindor? And if so, why so few?
>> If there were as many as 150 per year, why do houses have to be
>> combined to make up the numbers for a class? In PS, twenty brooms
>> were provided for Gryffindor & Slytherin; in CoS, the same figure
>> was mentioned at the Herbology class for Gryffindor & Hufflepuff.
>> This suggests 12 students each for Slytherin & Hufflepuff, about 40
>> for Harry's year, and something like 250 students for all Hogwarts.
> JKR herself said there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts - so divide
> by 7 years and allow a small amount for failure and drop-out and that
> comes to 140-150 per year.
Yes Thomas, I quoted you saying that at the top of my post.
My proposition is that JKR's remark does not square with her books.
> As far s combining classes between houses - there is no mention that
> this is "required" = just that it is done. Clearly - there are a number
> of path's of study a Wizard could follow - like a "major" in our world.
> There are a number of "electives" that a wizard could use to guide his
> study - but are not required - such as divination. These classes would
> logically require students from other houses to combine. Maybe the rest
> are simply a social thing - to prevent the houses from being cut off
> completely from each other.
So how come when two houses come together for Flying or Herbology lessons,
only 20 students are provided for, and not 70-75?
> Please note - if there were only 40 students per year at Hogwarts - and
> IF Hogwars were the only wizarding school in Great Britain - then you
> are looking at a wizarding population of only 2-3000 - definitely not
> enough to support diagon alley alone.
Well, apart from the fact that wizards from other countries can easily
pop in; that's rather less direct evidence than JKR saying in *two*
separate books that two houses per year is 20 students, and specifying
only *eight* students for Harry's year in Gryffindor.
Tennant
TeeJa
>
> I will take a large bet that British Rail still exist. Well I won't
> because I am nice and I would be robbing you blind but they do still exist.
Scuse me?! British Rail, ceased to exist during the early 1990s. It was
replaced by rail track and a number or independent operators! Any reference
to British and rail in the same sentence refers to a 'rail' in 'Britain' by
the same token, doorknobs in Bristol could be called British Doorknobs.
http://ndad.ulcc.ac.uk/datasets/AH/britrail.htm
http://home.ca.inter.net/~brmna/proinf.htm
>
>
> However Hogwarts is in Scotland period. See the URL below for the
> conclusive evidence from the books for this,
>
> http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/hptheories.htmle
>
> Except see above, no can do. Anyway there are no large runined castles
> in Northumberland by lakes:)
'Conclusive' isn't the same as 'cuz I said so'! As we are taking about the
ÅtheoreticalÄ
location of a ÅmythicalÄ
place that cant be seen by humans -
sorry, muggles, not seeing a ruined castle down the end of your street is no
evidence at all my lad!
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html
("Period"?! thatÄ
s a fine Northumberland phrase!)
>
>>
>> DonÄ
t forget the the Hogwarts express is a steam train - its not as fast as
>> the high-speed trains that use the east coast line. Also the GNER service
>> tends to run from platform platform 2-5. Not sure where the trains from 9+
>> went to..
>
> Yeah, right but it did not take the Flying Scotsman eight hours to go from
> Kings Cross to Edinburgh though did it.
Apparently 7 hours 40 minutes was its fastest time.
http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r003.html
> and that is not even the fastest
> steam train. Actually the timetabled times for the east coast main line
> are bearly shorter than they where 50 years ago when it was all steam.
The A4 class Pacific, Mallard, set an unbroken record for steam hauled
trains of 126 mph on that line in 1938. However, the train was modified for
the record, and it only reached that speed for a few minutes on a downhill
section of the track. It also had to be taken back to the shop to be fixed
afterwards because travelling so fast completely knackered it.
http://www.lexcie.zetnet.co.uk/mallard.htm
The trains on that rout these days travel at up to 150 mph on the fastest
sections but that is limited by heavy traffic and track condition.
http://www.stvincent.ac.uk/Resources/Physics/Speed/rail/ttable.html
You bio-engineers donÄ
t know nuffink.
(and you have turned me into a train-spotter you bastard)
TJR
London
Toon
<Thom-...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>Tennant Stuart wrote:
>> If there were as many as 150 per year, why do houses have to be
>> combined to make up the numbers for a class? In PS, twenty brooms
>> were provided for Gryffindor & Slytherin; in CoS, the same figure
>> was mentioned at the Herbology class for Gryffindor & Hufflepuff.
Rotation. Say 20 for 8AM flying. 20 for 9AM flying, etc. As for
combining, as suggested, might be a socialization thing. Or might
make it easier to award house points if there's competition.
Steven DeMonnin
>>
>
> But that does not fit in with what is written in the books. Which
> has much lower totals full stop. For example only 100 horseless
> carriages that seat four maximum and are all fully occupied are
> used to move years 2-7 from the station to the school.
You have lots of good theories. I think Ms. Rowlling just went for
elegance.
Now the reality of carriages, if you want to push it to extreme logic,
does not fit your theory. the coaches here in the states, the standard
coach, would fit nine inside plus two more on top. Of course, back in
the 19th century american bottoms were a great deal narrower. There was
in addition an american version of the french Dillagence (pardon the
spelling) which could do 18-20 19th century posteriors. I think she was
talking about standard size coaches, and not going for comfort she could
easily put about 850 into 100 coaches.
If Hogwarts has 1000+- students, then that is 143 students per year and
35 or students per house. that is about 17 of each sex. That seems
about reasonable for a class in almost any school
Ron and Harry only have to go through the sorting process twice by book
four, and Ron is very upset about how long it takes, as he is very
hungry by the end of it.
There are lots of places where if you work out the logistics of the
thing, the whole concept can't work. I mean 1000 students, plus staff,
plus around 100 kitchen elves, plus the elves that mow the lawns and
keep the gardens, the elves that dust the portraits, etc etc. There is
either one really amazing septic system to handle all that waste, or
that lake is major league polluted.
Then there is the food for this mob. If Ms Rowling had much interest in
military history, and from the evidence of how she treats Prof. Binns
she has less than no interest in history in general, then she would
realize just how hard a job she has set the logistical staff of that
castle. I have read a bit of military history, and the main pain of
generals at all times and all places has been providing food for the
troops. When general Grant was at City Point, he lived in a shack, and
let his commissary chief have the big house. It is amazing what
Ingalls did in the way of supply between June 64 and april 65. General
Sherman, who lived off the land for most of the last year of the war
still spent most of his time dealing with commissary matters.
So anyway, whenever it comes to logistics in these books, it is time to
leave your analytical skills at the door, and just enjoy the view
Richard Sliwa
following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
<snip>
> Please note - if there were only 40 students per year at Hogwarts - and
> IF Hogwars were the only wizarding school in Great Britain - then you
> are looking at a wizarding population of only 2-3000 - definitely not
> enough to support diagon alley alone.
Just out of curiosity, Thomas, how do you reach that figure (10,000 or
2,000-3,000 UK wizarding community, depending on assumptions of the size
of Hogwarts' student body)?
Sky Rider
<(simonj)@(sjbwool)(.freeserve.co.uk)> write:
>On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:10:49 -0700, Steven DeMonnin
><rey...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>>BSL wrote:
>>> jona...@buzzard.org.uk (Jonathan Buzzard) wrote in message news:<hkecha...@192.168.42.254>...
>>>>In article <ujjd5bm...@news.supernews.com>,
>>>> Scott Peterson <scottp4.remo...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>>>>"InsaneScouter" <webm...@insanescouter.org> wrote:
<snip>
>Well since Hogwarts is "unplottable" and any place in the North Sea
>would be Sea and not land so any land out there would be "virutal" or
>"complex" which would also be "unplottable" on a number line.
>Therefore Hogwarts is "on" the North sea !
>Conjectures - Ain't they fun :-)
there is also the question why a muggle (or an wicked wizard <g>)
couldn't just follow the rail tracks north! The place would be a bit
obvious from the rail station wouldn't it?
--
SkyRider
**********
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang
and leave your favourites-: http://www.odps.cyberscriber.com
**********
Tennant Stuart
<rey...@aracnet.com> wrote:
> If Hogwarts has 1000+- students, then that is 143 students per year and
> 35 or students per house. that is about 17 of each sex.
So how come that in Harry's year, Gryffindor has 5 boys and 3 girls?
What happened to the other 12 boys and 14 girls? Lost on the 3rd floor?
> That seems about reasonable for a class in almost any school
35 is a bit large for a class, but never mind. So how come two houses
are then combined for several lessons, giving a total class size of 70,
and where sufficient equipment is provided for a mere 20 students?
Tennant Stuart
Toon <to...@toon.com> wrote:
> Tennant Stuart wrote:
>> If there were as many as 150 per year, why do houses have to be
>> combined to make up the numbers for a class? In PS, twenty brooms
>> were provided for Gryffindor & Slytherin; in CoS, the same figure
>> was mentioned at the Herbology class for Gryffindor & Hufflepuff.
> Rotation. Say 20 for 8AM flying. 20 for 9AM flying, etc. As for
> combining, as suggested, might be a socialization thing. Or might
> make it easier to award house points if there's competition.
Okay, so let's say there are 160 per year, to make the numbers easier.
Then in Harry's year, there are 40 Gryffindors, of whom 10 (the 8 we
know about and 2 shadowy extras) attend the 8AM flying lesson with 10
Slytherins, and when that's over, they all go off elsewhere while the
next 10 Gryffindors & 10 Slytherins attend the 9AM flying lesson, and
then the next 10 Gryffindors & 10 Slytherins attend the 10AM flying
lesson, and then the last 10 Gryffindors & 10 Slytherins attend the
11AM flying lesson. After an hour off for lunch, 10 Ravenclaws & 10
Hufflepuffs attend the 1PM flying lesson, then the next 10 Ravenclaws
& 10 Hufflepuffs attend the 2PM flying lesson, and then the next 10
Ravenclaws & 10 Hufflepuffs attend the 3PM flying lesson, and then the
last 10 Ravenclaws & 10 Hufflepuffs attend the 4PM flying lesson.
Phew! That's a busy day for Madame Hooch, isn't it? Does she teach only
the first five years, or does she work at the weekends as well? And why
doesn't some benefactor think to provide more than 20 school brooms?
Tennant
Chris Share
(ten...@argonet.co.uk) said...
>In article <3D44C9BC...@aracnet.com>, Steven DeMonnin
><rey...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>
>> If Hogwarts has 1000+- students, then that is 143 students per year and
>> 35 or students per house. that is about 17 of each sex.
>
>So how come that in Harry's year, Gryffindor has 5 boys and 3 girls?
We don't actually know that.... we know all the boys in Harry's room,
and the implication is that it's the only gryffindor one for their
year. However we don't know anything for the girls... I'm inclined to
think that it's more even - 5 per sex per house per year. Would fit
nicely with the 20 brooms in the flying lesson.
chris
Simon.
wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:20:28 +0100, someone let Simon.
><(simonj)@(sjbwool)(.freeserve.co.uk)> write:
>>On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:10:49 -0700, Steven DeMonnin
>><rey...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>>>BSL wrote:
>>>> jona...@buzzard.org.uk (Jonathan Buzzard) wrote in message news:<hkecha...@192.168.42.254>...
>>>>>In article <ujjd5bm...@news.supernews.com>,
>>>>> Scott Peterson <scottp4.remo...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>>>>>"InsaneScouter" <webm...@insanescouter.org> wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>Well since Hogwarts is "unplottable" and any place in the North Sea
>>would be Sea and not land so any land out there would be "virutal" or
>>"complex" which would also be "unplottable" on a number line.
>
>>Therefore Hogwarts is "on" the North sea !
>
>>Conjectures - Ain't they fun :-)
>
>there is also the question why a muggle (or an wicked wizard <g>)
>couldn't just follow the rail tracks north! The place would be a bit
>obvious from the rail station wouldn't it?
True but the train might go straight through an apparantly solid
mountain first thereby losing the muggles.
After all the muggles do not notice hundreds of pupils going through
the "solid" barrier at Kings X now do they?
Simon.
Please put out the fire to e-mail me.
Denise
"Chris Share" wrote:
>We don't actually know that.... we know all the boys in Harry's room, and
the implication is that it's the only gryffindor one for their year. However
we don't know anything for the girls... I'm inclined to think that it's more
even - 5 per sex per house per year. Would fit nicely with the 20 brooms in
the flying lesson.
I just reread CoS; during one of the quidditch matches (the final one, I
believe), it says that there are 200 Slytherins cheering in the stands.
D.
Denise
Chris Share
said...
Yep, this is the same problem as trying to work out what year the books
are - it's impossible to tell. There's several pieces of evidence for
each, most of which are mutually contradictory.
chris
Thomas Madura
> > JKR herself said there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts - so divide
> > by 7 years and allow a small amount for failure and drop-out and that
> > comes to 140-150 per year.
>
> Yes Thomas, I quoted you saying that at the top of my post.
>
> My proposition is that JKR's remark does not square with her books.
Well - one thing is for sure - the movie shows 19 new Gryffindor's
around the fireplace in the great room - when they are first taken there
by percy - so 20 seems right - at least for the movie.
Still - with 13 pro Quidditch teams in the UK - it would take a lot more
than 2500-3000 in the wizarding world in the UK to support the home
teams - more like that much per team or more. And, in the movie - the
quidditch field was packed for the game - more than this number would
add to as well.
>
> > As far s combining classes between houses - there is no mention that
> > this is "required" = just that it is done. Clearly - there are a number
> > of path's of study a Wizard could follow - like a "major" in our world.
> > There are a number of "electives" that a wizard could use to guide his
> > study - but are not required - such as divination. These classes would
> > logically require students from other houses to combine. Maybe the rest
> > are simply a social thing - to prevent the houses from being cut off
> > completely from each other.
>
> So how come when two houses come together for Flying or Herbology lessons,
> only 20 students are provided for, and not 70-75?
Again - there is no methodology mentioned as to how students are
assigned to classes. Simply assuming that the 20 in the class are all
the Gryffindor's and Slytherin's of that age group is also not
supported in the books.
Mary
> Well - one thing is for sure - the movie shows 19 new Gryffindor's
> around the fireplace in the great room - when they are first taken
> there by percy - so 20 seems right - at least for the movie. Still -
> with 13 pro Quidditch teams in the UK - it would take a lot more than
> 2500-3000 in the wizarding world in the UK to support the home teams
> - more like that much per team or more. And, in the movie - the
> quidditch field was packed for the game - more than this number would
> add to as well.
One suggestion that has been made for example at:
http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/generations.html
is that Harry's generation is a lot smaller than the one before it. On
the other hand - smaller by a factor of 10 is a little hard to buy.
There would be panic in the Ministry (and among the Quidditch recruiters
and team owners) if that kind of population loss was impending.
-Mary
Caycilia
> In article <8sn7kuc40c9esq5pn...@4ax.com>,
> Simon. <(simonj)@(sjbwool)(.freeserve.co.uk)> writes:
Even at 30 seconds a sort in total it would take over
> two hours. However we know from book three that it does not take
> anywhere near this amount of time. Conclusion there are less pupils
> than JKR said at interview.
>
each house and about the same number of boys and girls, there would be
around 280 students at hogwarts. 70 per house. This is also if all
students stay through all seven years and none come late. This number
was found by using the amount of students in harry's room, 5, and
multiplying by 2 (5 boys, 5 girls) Thats the estimated amount of
grifindor students in his year. Then multiply that by seven (total
gryfindors at one time,) and you get 70. If there are the same number
(approx) in each house, then you have 280 students all together and
only 40 per year.
Using this number, and the 30 seconds per person sortting time, you
get 1200 seconds, which is only twenty minutes. Much more reasonable.
As for wizards arriving from around the country, i was thinking it
would be easy because they could just go to kings cross by floo powder
(still wasted travel time on the train if they live up north...but
anyway), but i was thinking that there probably wouldn't be a
fireplace in a train station, they couldn't apparate because the
children would be too young, and they couldn't use a portkey because
they wouldn't be set up at individual houses, although they could be
set up one in a village like a bus stop...or they could take the
knight bus. Ok, now my propositions are becoming unlikely. I wonder
as much as the rest how wizards get to hogwarts if they don't live
near kings cross, especially if they are already closer to Hogwarts,
such as in scotland.
Ta Ta,
Caycilia
Chris Share
said...
>are because they're mentioned specifically. There's no information
>one way or the other on how many other 1st year Gryffindors are at
>Hogwarts in the book.
Harry, Ron, Neville, Dean, Seamus.
5 per room.
And I'm sure that it's often referred to as "the" first year dorm,
which implies there aren't any others.
chris
Denise
"Chris Share" wrote:
>Yep, this is the same problem as trying to work out what year the books
are - it's impossible to tell. There's several pieces of evidence for each,
most of which are mutually contradictory.
Well, actually, I can point out a part in the books that could specify what
years everything takes place. In CoS, in the chapter called 'The Deathday
Party', after having told us that this is the 500th anniversary of his
death, Nick's cake has his date of death as '31st October, 1492'. So,
that's Harry's second year at Hogwarts, so he was 11 in 1991, born in 1980,
etc, etc. :)
Denise
Tennant Stuart
<ch...@caesium.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
Well, just as in 4 books there's never been any mention of a 6th boy,
so there's never been any mention of a 4th girl, just the best friends
Parvati & Lavender, and Hermione who's 'one of the guys'. Incidentally,
how well do the other boys Dean/Seamus/Neville get along together?
Tennant
Tennant Stuart
<ch...@caesium.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> D.
That "200 Slytherins" would include friends & relatives.
Tennant
Chris Share
said...
Yes, that's the most definite evidence. But there are other things that
contradict it... a playstation in GoF before it was released in this
country, the day of the week for certain known dates doesn't match the
years according to that - hell, they don't even match between the
different books.
Like I said, you can't tell.
chris
Denise
"Chris Share" wrote:
>Yes, that's the most definite evidence. But there are other things that
contradict it... a playstation in GoF before it was released in this
country, the day of the week for certain known dates doesn't match the years
according to that - hell, they don't even match between the different books.
>Like I said, you can't tell.
Excellent point, I'd forgotten the days of the week, etc. But I guess it
doesn't really matter--or at least it doesn't to me. I think it's one of
the best things about the books. They're applicable to almost any era,
generally speaking. :)
D.
Philip Lewis
>only see one in the movie. JKR indicated as background material that
>there are ~1000 students at Hogwarts, which probably means about 200 -
>300 first years.
And this should be enough....
It's her book, and she said so...
It's supported by the 200 slytherens at the match, assuming not all
Slythes are fans.... and assuming roughly even distribution. (250/house)
We don't hear about other classes, or teachers (there is an argument
that the "20 broomsticks for a two house first year class" implies
only 10 kids per house per year. What if the teachers use time
turners to teach several classes at once? (well actually they teach
them serially, but they happen at once...))
In america, the term "dorm" refers to a collection of dorm rooms. When
I attended college, i was in a dorm room suite (2 rooms, common bath)
with 3 others... but there were other suits, in which i didn't know
anything about the goings on. But when i said i was going back to
"*the* dorm"... there was an implication that i was going back to my
room in the dorm. (although i might have been going back to the common
room, or to visit a friend.)
Practically noone here has heard about my wife and cats, but i assure
you that they exist.... ;)
In short, She (JKR) said so, and it's her world... so we have to
believe that there is some explanation with which we haven't been
presented, no matter what "proof" we fine to the contrairy.
--
^___^
\^.^/ be safe,
==u== flip
Peter Murray
Mary <usenet...@puzzling.org> wrote:
>One suggestion that has been made for example at:
>http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/generations.html
>is that Harry's generation is a lot smaller than the one before it. On
>the other hand - smaller by a factor of 10 is a little hard to buy.
>There would be panic in the Ministry (and among the Quidditch recruiters
>and team owners) if that kind of population loss was impending.
It's not that hard to buy - how many wizards did Voldemort and his
Death Eaters kill? Harry himself _should_ be dead, and it's not
too surprising that there are fewer children around who were born in
the last year of Voldemort's reign of terror.
There _was_ panic in the Ministry. We've seen the draconian measures
they adopted to cope in GoF, and Fudge's complete denial at the end
of the book that there could possibly be a return to those days.
--
..Peter Murray http://www.table76.demon.co.uk/Hogwarts/index.html
Richard: Lisa doesn't have any enemies! Just a lot of friends who don't
like her. -- [Second Thoughts "Sleeping Partner"]
Peter Murray
Tennant Stuart <ten...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>Well, just as in 4 books there's never been any mention of a 6th boy,
>so there's never been any mention of a 4th girl, just the best friends
>Parvati & Lavender, and Hermione who's 'one of the guys'. Incidentally,
>how well do the other boys Dean/Seamus/Neville get along together?
Seamus invited Dean along to the Quidditch World Cup, just as Ron
invited Harry and Hermione. That's the only time I recall much of
a mention of them outside school.
Richard Sliwa
the following to alt.fan.harry-potter:
<snip>
> Harry, Ron, Neville, Dean, Seamus.
> 5 per room.
>
> And I'm sure that it's often referred to as "the" first year dorm,
> which implies there aren't any others.
What I always found strange, as a boarding school alumnus myself, is that
the fivesome have the *same* dorm throughout their four years to date. My
small school changed us around at every opportunity.
My only explanation, and this is relevant to to the topic, is that Harry's
Gryffindor class is particularly small, so they're given the only five-bed
dorm available. I'd expect lots of people from Harry (and Neville's, and
Dean's!) parents' generation to have been targetted by ol' Voldie and thus
there weren't many wizarding kids born that year.
Tennant Stuart
Philip Lewis <fl...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> OrionCA <ori...@earthlink.net> writes:
>> JKR indicated as background material that there are ~1000 students at
>> Hogwarts, which probably means about 200 - 300 first years.
> In short, She (JKR) said so, and it's her world... so we have to
> believe that there is some explanation with which we haven't been
> presented, no matter what "proof" we fine to the contrairy.
JKR has *not* said so in any of her *books*, which indicate otherwise. It
is the books which are canon, not some casually made off-the-cuff remark.
Tennant Stuart
(Peter Murray) wrote:
> In article <na.3dead24b5d...@argonet.co.uk>,
> Tennant Stuart <ten...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Well, just as in 4 books there's never been any mention of a 6th boy,
>> so there's never been any mention of a 4th girl, just the best friends
>> Parvati & Lavender, and Hermione who's 'one of the guys'. Incidentally,
>> how well do the other boys Dean/Seamus/Neville get along together?
> Seamus invited Dean along to the Quidditch World Cup, just as Ron
> invited Harry and Hermione. That's the only time I recall much of
> a mention of them outside school.
Thanks. So that leaves poor Neville then, as a bit of a loner?
Sky Rider
<ten...@argonet.co.uk> write:
>In article <B96C70AB...@0.0.0.0>, pe...@table76.demon.co.uk
>(Peter Murray) wrote:
>> In article <na.3dead24b5d...@argonet.co.uk>,
>> Tennant Stuart <ten...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Well, just as in 4 books there's never been any mention of a 6th boy,
>>> so there's never been any mention of a 4th girl, just the best friends
>>> Parvati & Lavender, and Hermione who's 'one of the guys'. Incidentally,
>>> how well do the other boys Dean/Seamus/Neville get along together?
>> Seamus invited Dean along to the Quidditch World Cup, just as Ron
>> invited Harry and Hermione. That's the only time I recall much of
>> a mention of them outside school.
>Thanks. So that leaves poor Neville then, as a bit of a loner?
In the books Neville was 'well in' with the big three... he was with
them when they discovered Flyffu (Welsh spelling <g>) for example...
so hardly a 'loner'
A.G.Lindsay
> Phew! That's a busy day for Madame Hooch, isn't it? Does she teach only
> the first five years, or does she work at the weekends as well? And why
> doesn't some benefactor think to provide more than 20 school brooms?
Does it say they take flying after the first year? There's no mention
of them taking flying classes after the first LESSON. I could see an
entire term for flying, but 5 years?
Maybe flying lessons are like Driver's Ed in the States. You take it
for one semester and then you're good to go for your license.
--lin
Jonathan Buzzard
Steven DeMonnin <rey...@aracnet.com> writes:
[SNIP]
> Now the reality of carriages, if you want to push it to extreme logic,
> does not fit your theory. the coaches here in the states, the standard
> coach, would fit nine inside plus two more on top. Of course, back in
> the 19th century american bottoms were a great deal narrower. There was
> in addition an american version of the french Dillagence (pardon the
> spelling) which could do 18-20 19th century posteriors. I think she was
> talking about standard size coaches, and not going for comfort she could
> easily put about 850 into 100 coaches.
Irrelevant the Hogwarts headless coaches seat a maxium of four.
> If Hogwarts has 1000+- students, then that is 143 students per year and
> 35 or students per house. that is about 17 of each sex. That seems
> about reasonable for a class in almost any school
It does that is about the size of most high schools. Thing is Hogwarts
does not square up with this.
>
> Ron and Harry only have to go through the sorting process twice by book
> four, and Ron is very upset about how long it takes, as he is very
> hungry by the end of it.
Read PoA, note how long Harry and Herminoe are away, and note the fact
that sorting has finished by the time they get back.
JAB.
--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jona...@buzzard.org.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44(0)1661-832195
Jonathan Buzzard
There is the possibility that say Gryffindor and Sytherin are much smaller
houses than the other two. But oh no that does not match up with that
notebook JKR flashed at the camera at Christmas time. Given this is
what the books are written from it is the ultimate source, and puts
Harrys year at approximately 40 pupils. It contains all the names
she said so herself, so unless other years are *much* bigger the
1000, is a complete lie.
Jonathan Buzzard
TeeJa <t...@electra.prestel.co.uk> writes:
>
>>
>> I will take a large bet that British Rail still exist. Well I won't
>> because I am nice and I would be robbing you blind but they do still exist.
>
>
> Scuse me?! British Rail, ceased to exist during the early 1990s. It was
> replaced by rail track and a number or independent operators! Any reference
> to British and rail in the same sentence refers to a 'rail' in 'Britain' by
> the same token, doorknobs in Bristol could be called British Doorknobs.
>
> http://ndad.ulcc.ac.uk/datasets/AH/britrail.htm
>
> http://home.ca.inter.net/~brmna/proinf.htm
>
How much do you want to bet then? You would be super foolish to place a
bet, but if you really do want to be robbed blind then I don't mind
taking your money. The fact remains British Rail still exists as a
seperate legal entitiy. If you where paying attention closely enough
last year the fact that British Rail still exists was covered in
Newsnight, and John Prescott at one time used to like to remind people
of this little nugget of information.
>>
>> Yeah, right but it did not take the Flying Scotsman eight hours to go from
>> Kings Cross to Edinburgh though did it.
>
>
> Apparently 7 hours 40 minutes was its fastest time.
Which is not eight hours.
> http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r003.html
Actually it says 7 hours 30 minutes and that includes stops, and ends up
in Scotland. Need I say anymore.
Philip Lewis
>> In short, She (JKR) said so, and it's her world... so we have to
>> believe that there is some explanation with which we haven't been
>> presented, no matter what "proof" we fine to the contrairy.
Tennant Stuart <ten...@argonet.co.uk> writes:
>JKR has *not* said so in any of her *books*, which indicate otherwise. It
>is the books which are canon, not some casually made off-the-cuff remark.
Off the cuff, in the books or not... it doesn't negate the fact that
*IT IS HER WORLD*. If in her mind there are ~1000 students... then
there are ~1000 students.... no matter what we think we know. It's a
magical world... described mostly from a young teenager's view. You
can't blindly use the normal logic, nor can you assume that harry's
Point of View is exactly the way things are. In my middle school (5th -
8th year) we had multiple "homerooms" per grade with differing
schedules, and when i was talking to someone in my class about "going
to math class" i didn't need to say "Going to the math class which we
participate in, not the one that the other class attends."
TJR
> How much do you want to bet then? You would be super foolish to place a
> bet, but if you really do want to be robbed blind then I don't mind
> taking your money. The fact remains British Rail still exists as a
> seperate legal entitiy. If you where paying attention closely enough
> last year the fact that British Rail still exists was covered in
> Newsnight, and John Prescott at one time used to like to remind people
> of this little nugget of information.
Look, British Rail NO LONGER EXISTS. Want conformation? Call the secretariat
at the Strategic Rail Authority - then call the Office of the Rail Regulator
for conformation - I did! You know what they said? BRITISH RAIL NO LONGER
EXIST.... IN ANY RESPECT WHAT-SO-EVER... IN NAME, AS A LEGAL ENTITY, OR IN
OTHER SENSE. Following the sell off of track, stock, property and subsidiary
organisations, what was left (pensions, archives and oversight of the
transport police) was turned over to the BRITISH RAILWAYS BOARD until these
remaining responsibilities were turned over to the BRITISH RAILWAYS BOARD
RESIDUAL COMPANY, which is part of the Strategic Rail Authority, in January
2001. The British Railways board now has one roll - to oversee the
finalisation of the Channel Tunnel Usage Contract in conjunction with SNCF
and when that has been done... *poof* jut like Dobby it will disappear.
Office of the Rail Regulator - 020 7282 2000
Strategic Rail Authority - ask for the office of the secretariat - 0207 654
6000
Then if you really REALLY still think British Rail still exists call my old
Mate Peter Trewin former secretary of the British Railway board, now board
secretary of the SRA and ask him to put you straight. You can reach his PA's
on is 0207 654 6105.
Let us know haw you get on.
>
>>>
>>> Yeah, right but it did not take the Flying Scotsman eight hours to go from
>>> Kings Cross to Edinburgh though did it.
>>
>>
>> Apparently 7 hours 40 minutes was its fastest time.
>
> Which is not eight hours.
... Wow! you really go me there!
TJR
Tennant Stuart
Philip Lewis <fl...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> Tennant Stuart <ten...@argonet.co.uk> writes:
>> JKR has *not* said so in any of her *books*, which indicate otherwise. It
>> is the books which are canon, not some casually made off-the-cuff remark.
> Off the cuff, in the books or not... it doesn't negate the fact that
> *IT IS HER WORLD*. If in her mind there are ~1000 students... then
> there are ~1000 students.... no matter what we think we know. It's a
> magical world... described mostly from a young teenager's view. You
> can't blindly use the normal logic, nor can you assume that harry's
> Point of View is exactly the way things are. In my middle school (5th -
> 8th year) we had multiple "homerooms" per grade with differing
> schedules, and when i was talking to someone in my class about "going
> to math class" i didn't need to say "Going to the math class which we
> participate in, not the one that the other class attends."
Well Philip, you can go by some (possibly misquoted) remark, and I
shall go by what JKR has carefully written in her books. Okay? :)
Philip Lewis
>Well Philip, you can go by some (possibly misquoted) remark, and I
now... so i'll leave the possible misquoted line out of it.
>shall go by what JKR has carefully written in her books. Okay? :)
or not so carefully... as the case may be...
http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/hpwriters/pippin_10.html
;)
toodols
Steven DeMonnin
Jonathan Buzzard wrote:
Since the books are written from the perspective of the children, it may
just be that all we see are that Harry notices. The kids in his dorm
room, the jerk who likes to make trouble from another house plus his
satellites, and a couple of other close friends.
I remember just how few of the people there were in my high school
(about 1200) that I actually had any daily contact with. The pottervers
is probably very similar.
To go the other direction, then you would have 10 per house per year,
which results in 280 students in the whole school. That is even more
out of line han 1000-/+
Jonathan Buzzard
Really so then the Newsnight team are just a bunch of liers then.
Jonathan Buzzard
Philip Lewis <fl...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Tennant Stuart <ten...@argonet.co.uk> writes:
>>Well Philip, you can go by some (possibly misquoted) remark, and I
> unfortunatly, i can't find the transscription of the interview right
> now... so i'll leave the possible misquoted line out of it.
There was a biography of JKR shown by the BBC at Christmas last year,
in which JKR showed one of the notebooks from which much important
information is drawn. She explicitly said that the pages contained
the names of all the pupils in Harrys year, the house they where in,
how magical they are and some other stuff.
I would suggest that the two pages in this notebook are more canon than
even the four published books. While not every name was visible,
there would appear to have been exactly fourty names on this list,
with 10 people in each house, which ties in with the 20 brooms for
that flying lesson, the DADA class in PoA, and a whole host of other
information.
So unless other years are much bigger this 1000 stuff is off the cuff.
TJR
Perhaps you misheard. Maybe they were talking about British Nails, British
Whales or British snails. Perhaps they were talking about sections of BR
that were handed over to the British Railways Board which was around in the
days of BR but not part of it. Ill tell you what, next time I'm working over
at Television Central Ill have a word with Jeremy and get back to you.
Jonathan Buzzard
TJR <t...@herenow.com> writes:
[SNIP]
>
> Perhaps you misheard. Maybe they were talking about British Nails, British
> Whales or British snails. Perhaps they were talking about sections of BR
> that were handed over to the British Railways Board which was around in the
> days of BR but not part of it. Ill tell you what, next time I'm working over
> at Television Central Ill have a word with Jeremy and get back to you.
>
I didn't mishear, which is why
BRITISH RAIL LIMITED
55 VICTORIA STREET
LONDON
SW1H 0EU
is still registered as an active company at Companies House as of
14:00 on the 1/8/2002. I wonder why this is the exact same address
as the British Railways Board:)
Can I collect my winnings please? Like I said the legal entity that was
British Rail still exists to this very day. I would argue very strongly
that Companies House records are the definative arbitrator on this matter.
You can hardly claim they don't exist if Compaines House say they do
can you now:) Well you can but you would be just plain wrong.
Philip Lewis
>information is drawn. She explicitly said that the pages contained
>the names of all the pupils in Harrys year, the house they where in,
did she say "these two pages"? if not... who knows how many more pages
beyond the two we saw contained names...
Then there is the "there were dard times and people wern't having as
many kids" argument, in which cast the 1000 figure would represent the
"usual" number of hogwarts students, vrs how many there happen to be
in harry's grade.
perhaps there are combining classes because of the fewer students...
Philip Lewis
>Then there is the "there were dard times and people wern't having as
Mike Bristow
Jonathan Buzzard <jona...@buzzard.org.uk> wrote:
> There was a biography of JKR shown by the BBC at Christmas last year,
> in which JKR showed one of the notebooks from which much important
> information is drawn. She explicitly said that the pages contained
> the names of all the pupils in Harrys year, the house they where in,
> how magical they are and some other stuff.
>
> I would suggest that the two pages in this notebook are more canon than
> even the four published books. While not every name was visible,
> there would appear to have been exactly fourty names on this list,
> with 10 people in each house, which ties in with the 20 brooms for
> that flying lesson, the DADA class in PoA, and a whole host of other
> information.
Did she rule out the possibility of there being more in Harry's year
on the other side of the paper, or on other pages in the notebook?
--
You can't do maths without e
-- David Walters
Jonathan Buzzard
From memory she said something like "this is a list of all those in
Harrys year it shows their house...." What ever it was it did not leave
much scope for interpretation.
Philip Lewis
>From memory she said something like "this is a list of all those in
>Harrys year it shows their house...." What ever it was it did not leave
>much scope for interpretation.
(holds up open book:)
"this is a story of harry potter and the philosopher's stone.
Now, who thinks the entire story is on the two pages which are
showing?
Peter Murray
Mike Bristow <mi...@urgle.com> wrote:
The names are listed alphabetically. They start with "Abbott, Hannah"
and end with "Zabin" - presumably, Blaise Zabini. Hermione and Neville
have been moved from their original positions to the positions of their
changed surnames*. It seems reasonable that the list is complete.
* Oh look, something new to speculate about :-) .
Jonathan Buzzard
Except these two pages where captured on a computer and have since been
analysied extensively. The list is clearly complete and accurate.
Klaus Winkler
wrote:
>
>there is also the question why a muggle (or an wicked wizard <g>)
>couldn't just follow the rail tracks north! The place would be a bit
>obvious from the rail station wouldn't it?
The answer is in GoF, Muggle Repelling Charms...
Regards
Klaus Winkler
--
Looking for a FAQ? http://klauwin.bei.t-online.de/FAQafhp.txt
Ash nazg durbatulūk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulūk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
stark
I rather think that TJR has proved you wrong, I trust his/her (?)
information a bit more than yours. You just refuse to admit that you are
incorrect, dont you?
Jonathan Buzzard
I don't think so. The point is that British Rail limited is still
a registered active company at Companies House. Companies House is the
U.K. goverment organization that *all* ltd. and plc. companies
must register with. They are the ultimate arbitrator of what is
a company and what is not. They have an online search facility
that you can access via the web. As of 14:00, on the 1/8/2002
British Rail Limited was still registered as an active company
at Companies House.
This is utterly unrefutable evidence, that anyone is able to go and
check on. If you do not believe me then go and check it yourself,
you don't have to take my word for it. Their URL is below and the
index is searchable 7:00 to 24:00 GMT/BST Monday to Saturday (don't ask
me why it is not 24x7).
http://www.companies-house.gov.uk/
Now I will freely admit that it basically defunct and does not actually
do anything. However that is not what I claimed. All I said is the legal
entity that was British Rail still exists today. I am utterly right in this
statment as evidenced by the registration of companies at Companies House.
I would hazard the reason that TJR has not said anything is that
being resident in the U.K. he/she knows the that Companies House is
the ultimate arbitrator in this. As you are resident in the U.S.A.
I can understand that you have not the faintest clue what Companies
House is or the relevance of the organization to the question at
hand.
I am unlikely to admit to being wrong when I have Companies House
to back me up, because I am absolutely right. Leason for the day,
Jonathan never offers to bet any sum of money ever unless he is 110%
sure he is correct.
stark
> Now I will freely admit that it basically defunct and does not actually
> do anything. However that is not what I claimed. All I said is the legal
> entity that was British Rail still exists today. I am utterly right in this
> statment as evidenced by the registration of companies at Companies House.
The last company I worked for still exists. Technically the corporation
still exists with a small amount of assets. However, it has no employees,
no offices, a token PO Box for an address, and no investors. By law it
exits, in fact it does not.
You have split that hair. The original statement was about the existance of
British Rail as a rail company. You claimed it still existed. If you knew
that it had only a powerless fringe existance why did you imply that it was
more?
You have done an end run around the question and claimed your correctness by
a loophole. Congratulations on finding the most incorrect correct answer.
> I would hazard the reason that TJR has not said anything is that
> being resident in the U.K. he/she knows the that Companies House is
> the ultimate arbitrator in this. As you are resident in the U.S.A.
> I can understand that you have not the faintest clue what Companies
> House is or the relevance of the organization to the question at
> hand.
Of course not. I'm just an appallingly moronic American. I spend entire
days trying to make sure I know nothing about the world, especially the UK.
Its not even possible that I am familiar with the UK, since we have a law
preventing children from being exposed to UK culture and history here.
> I am unlikely to admit to being wrong when I have Companies House
> to back me up, because I am absolutely right. Leason for the day,
> Jonathan never offers to bet any sum of money ever unless he is 110%
> sure he is correct.
I'm sure I could find many technicalities that would make you completely
wrong. But I'm bored with you. I'm slowly figuring out what kind of person
you are.
Tennant Stuart
pe...@table76.demon.co.uk (Peter Murray) wrote:
> The names are listed alphabetically. They start with "Abbott, Hannah"
> and end with "Zabin" - presumably, Blaise Zabini. Hermione and Neville
> have been moved from their original positions to the positions of their
> changed surnames*. It seems reasonable that the list is complete.
>> Oh look, something new to speculate about :-) .
How exactly do you mean?
Tennant Stuart
Tennant Stuart
Buzzard) wrote:
> Except these two pages where captured on a computer and have since been
> analysied extensively. The list is clearly complete and accurate.
Oh, do you have URLs for the picture & the analysis?
Jonathan Buzzard
stark <at_n...@hotmail.com> writes:
> In article <lnleia...@192.168.42.254>, Jonathan Buzzard wrote:
>> Now I will freely admit that it basically defunct and does not actually
>> do anything. However that is not what I claimed. All I said is the legal
>> entity that was British Rail still exists today. I am utterly right in this
>> statment as evidenced by the registration of companies at Companies House.
>
> The last company I worked for still exists. Technically the corporation
> still exists with a small amount of assets. However, it has no employees,
> no offices, a token PO Box for an address, and no investors. By law it
> exits, in fact it does not.
>
> You have split that hair. The original statement was about the existance of
> British Rail as a rail company. You claimed it still existed. If you knew
> that it had only a powerless fringe existance why did you imply that it was
> more?
I didn't, and it is still a rail company. However the claim of TJR is
that it does not exist any more period. Clearly wrong.
> You have done an end run around the question and claimed your correctness by
> a loophole. Congratulations on finding the most incorrect correct answer.
Absolutely no loophole whatsoever. British Rail still exists, and indeed
as Railtrack was on the brink of bankrupcy last year, there was talk of
breathing life back into it, and abandoning the whole privatization
of the railways disaster. This is why it was covered in Newsnight (a serious
new program), and this is why John Prescott (deputy Prime Minister)
where reminding people that British Rail still existed this time
last year.
Exactly where TJR was at the time I don't know, but if he/she was on
the ball they would know this.
>> I would hazard the reason that TJR has not said anything is that
>> being resident in the U.K. he/she knows the that Companies House is
>> the ultimate arbitrator in this. As you are resident in the U.S.A.
>> I can understand that you have not the faintest clue what Companies
>> House is or the relevance of the organization to the question at
>> hand.
>
> Of course not. I'm just an appallingly moronic American. I spend entire
> days trying to make sure I know nothing about the world, especially the UK.
> Its not even possible that I am familiar with the UK, since we have a law
> preventing children from being exposed to UK culture and history here.
That is your predjudice, I would not and do not expect a random American
to know what Companies House is. My repsonse was directed at TJR
who is resident in the U.K., is most probably British and should
know what Companies House is. To take offence at being told what
compaines house is, is just silly. I am sure that the USA has a similar
register, what it is I have not the faintest idea.
>> I am unlikely to admit to being wrong when I have Companies House
>> to back me up, because I am absolutely right. Leason for the day,
>> Jonathan never offers to bet any sum of money ever unless he is 110%
>> sure he is correct.
>
> I'm sure I could find many technicalities that would make you completely
> wrong. But I'm bored with you. I'm slowly figuring out what kind of person
> you are.
Somebody, I forget who claimed that British Rail no longer exists. A
factualy incorrect statement. I in passing said that it did, something
that is in fact correct. An interesting gem of information that most
people are not aware of, and might be interested to hear. I hinted strongly
that I was extremely confident that I was right, as indeed I am. This was
a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
A number of people, TJR mostly then decided they knew better and tried
to show it did not exist and I was wrong. I refrained from pointing
them at Companies House until they became nasty and personal. I do not
take pleasure from pointing out people are wrong, but if they get nasty
I have no hesitation in rubbing their noises in the truth. However it
is not my fault they choose to persue something when they where wrong,
and I should not admit I am wrong when I am right either.
The truth is British Rail still exist today, and the truth is the truth.
It does not matter how you slice it, it remains the truth. It is always
better to tell the truth.
Kenneth T. Lambo, Sr.
"Jonathan Buzzard" <jona...@buzzard.org.uk> wrote in message
news:lnleia...@192.168.42.254...
Even thoug I am an American, I know that it is still a legal entity in UK
for several reasons, least of all that there are a few people who collect
pentions from them. They still maintain auctual properties throughout the
UK. Ahh the wonderfull world of the Discovery channel... I am a railway
nut....
BSL
> "BSL" <Dragon...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:8e20e0f.02072...@posting.google.com...
> > jona...@buzzard.org.uk (Jonathan Buzzard) wrote in message
> news:<hkecha...@192.168.42.254>...
> > > In article <ujjd5bm...@news.supernews.com>,
> > > Scott Peterson <scottp4.remo...@mindspring.com> writes:
> > > > "InsaneScouter" <webm...@insanescouter.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>A: You are absolutely right. If you travel north from King's Cross,
> you do
> > > >>indeed arrive in Scotland.
> > > >
> > > > Well, if you travel north from anywhere in England there are only two
> > > > alternatives. Salt water or Scotland.
> > > >
> > >
> > > A whole range of starting places would leave you in Wales.
> > >
> > > JAB.
> >
> > How long would it take to get to Scotland from kings cross...I mean it
> > took the Hogwarts Express a better part of 10 or 12 hours in guessing
> > I mean 10 or 12 hours...just wondering thats all.
>
>
> One thing I never understood was if hogwarts is in the muggle world then why
> do they all need to travel on a magical train. It says in one if not more of
> the books that Hogwarts is protected by some magical powers which mean that
> if any muggle is nearing it then they are instantly reminded that they have
> something to do. So if Hogwarts exists in the muggle world then why travel
> on a magical train. Furthermore, when harry is travelling to Hogwarts a
> landscape is described that is distinctly non English and muggle like
> instead more magical. Which provides even more confusion. Oh well, let's
> hope JKR can hurry up with that 5th book and give us something new to talk
> about instead attempting to anaylse the old books.
But it never said that the Hogwarts Express was magical it just said
that it was a scarlet steam engine...i mean sure it could have magical
powers but JKR never told us about the train in that extent she
normally just concentrated on what was happening inside with Harry and
the rest of the characters.....
BSL
> BSL wrote:
> >
> > "Rain Forests" <within_th...@NOSPAM123india.com> wrote in message news:<ah7b34$ic9$2...@news.brutele.be>...
> > > Manda wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:19:16 GMT, "rnrdawgy" <rnrd...@attbi.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> "InsaneScouter" <webm...@insanescouter.org> wrote in message
> > > >> news:bA7Z8.3524$L02.1...@news1.west.cox.net...
> > > >>> Q: Is Hogwarts possibly located in Scotland? I am an American and
> > > >>> have never been to the United Kingdom, but from reading the first
> > > >>> book and going by the train station Harry leaves from and how long
> > > >>> the trip takes, I am guessing it may be Scotland? Thank you.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> A: You are absolutely right. If you travel north from King's Cross,
> > > >>> you do indeed arrive in Scotland.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Online Chat with J.K. Rowling, Barnes & Noble, 8 September 1999
> > > >>> http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.net/bnchat3.shtml
> > > >>
> > > >> Well, that explains the accent of the (rather devastatingly
> > > >> attractive) Oliver Wood in the Philosopher's Stone movie. I mean,
> > > >> aside from the fact that Sean Biggerstaff is from Glasgow.
> > > >
> > > > Sean Biggerstaff *sigh* :-)
> > > >
> > > > But it does make you wonder if the Hogwarts Express is the only way
> > > > for students to get to Hogwarts (other than stealing a flying car).
> > > > For Scottish students it would seem rather silly to travel all the way
> > > > down to London just to wind up back in Scotland.
> > > >
> > > > Manda
> > >
> > > Maybe as proposed by another one here, London King's Cross is not the only
> > > place from which it is possible to get into the wizzard station, and nothing
> > > says that some students don't arrive differently
> >
> > But then i would take Hagrid a couple of trips wouldn't to get across
> > the lake if students arived by different means right...and in the
> > books once he's there he stays there and thats normally with all the
> > students. The first years need to be sorted and tavel by boat across
> > the lake so if not all the students arrive differently or at differnt
> > times that could imply waves of first years to be sorted not just the
> > ones from kings cross...who know im sure JK never though about us
> > picking apart her books so throghly that maybe she didn't pick up loop
> > holes in the story line...
>
> 1 - I don't know about Scotland - but here in the States there are more
> than one set of rails at a station - so more than one train could arrive
> at the same time. It is conceivable that trains could arrive from the
> north and south at the same or close to the same time and meet Hagrid -
> and then go to Hogwarts.
> 2 - Clearly - going by boat is the slower method of arriving since the
> other students are in the great hall by the time the first years arrive.
>
> 3- Based on JKR saying that there were about 1000 students at Hogwarts -
> in seven years that is about 140-150 per year (Assuming more at the
> beginning but some don't make it - drop out or removed)
> 150 Freshmen - even at 30 seconds per sort - would take over an hour to
> sort and probably more like two hours - more than enough time for
> several waves of first years to arrive IF that was needed.
Good point, about the several railways i never thought of that and as
for the the several waves of first years Hagrid was always there near
the middle of the sorting. Oh well, im not good at debate anyway...
Thomas Madura
I believe you missed the point - THe Express is clearly a Wizard World
train simply because only they can enter platform 93/4.
Tennant Stuart
Dragon...@msn.com (BSL) wrote:
> "Harry Egerton" <ha...@egerton.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:<ahv9d1$dr1$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>> "BSL" <Dragon...@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:8e20e0f.02072...@posting.google.com...
>>> jona...@buzzard.org.uk (Jonathan Buzzard) wrote in message
>> news:<hkecha...@192.168.42.254>...
>>>> In article <ujjd5bm...@news.supernews.com>,
>>>> Scott Peterson <scottp4.remo...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>>>> "InsaneScouter" <webm...@insanescouter.org> wrote:
>>>>>> You are absolutely right. If you travel north from King's Cross,
>>>>>> you do indeed arrive in Scotland.
>>>>> Well, if you travel north from anywhere in England there are only
>>>>> two alternatives. Salt water or Scotland.
>>>> A whole range of starting places would leave you in Wales.
>>> How long would it take to get to Scotland from kings cross...I mean it
>>> took the Hogwarts Express a better part of 10 or 12 hours in guessing
>>> I mean 10 or 12 hours...just wondering thats all.
>> One thing I never understood was if hogwarts is in the muggle world
>> then why do they all need to travel on a magical train. It says in one
>> if not more of the books that Hogwarts is protected by some magical
>> powers which mean that if any muggle is nearing it then they are
>> instantly reminded that they have something to do. So if Hogwarts
>> exists in the muggle world then why travel on a magical train.
>> Furthermore, when harry is travelling to Hogwarts a landscape is
>> described that is distinctly non English and muggle like instead more
>> magical. Which provides even more confusion. Oh well, let's hope JKR
>> can hurry up with that 5th book and give us something new to talk about
>> instead attempting to anaylse the old books.
> But it never said that the Hogwarts Express was magical it just said
> that it was a scarlet steam engine...i mean sure it could have magical
> powers but JKR never told us about the train in that extent she
> normally just concentrated on what was happening inside with Harry and
> the rest of the characters.....
On at least two occasions JKR writes about characters on the train going
to talk with the driver. I believe that the Flying Scotsman had a special
corridor tender so that the driver & fireman could be relieved by another
crew, but I don't think that's so with the Hogwarts Express as depicted,
so *maybe* there's a magical communication system.