Proof Harry Is Rowling's "Jesus"
QJ
final book – her Christianity. She has told us that it’s so easy a
10-year -old could figure it out. The secret to Harry Potter is tied
to Rowling’s Christianity. The master of the red herring has done it.
She has tricked the entire world. What appears to be a book about
witchcraft is a story about Jesus Christ.
<http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-beauseigneura01.shtml>
Draco Malfoy
I read this article several times, it is fascinating in many ways.
I disagree with the interpretation of the word Christian; that JKR is
a "Christ follower" as opposed to a one who believes in the birth,
death, resurrection and return of Christ.
If you take the latter and apply it to HP, then we must see
Harry/Jesus as returning. Yet, in the series, he never dies. Methinks
the author of the article chose "Christ follower" because it does not
unglue the concept of Harry/Jesus.
--
The fans rightly adore me !
https://twitter.com/TomFelton
Canned Unicorn
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 00:47:39 -0500, QJ wrote:
>
>> Rowling has told us where to look to find out what is coming in the
>> final book – her Christianity. She has told us that it’s so easy a
>> 10-year -old could figure it out. The secret to Harry Potter is tied
>> to Rowling’s Christianity. The master of the red herring has done it.
>> She has tricked the entire world. What appears to be a book about
>> witchcraft is a story about Jesus Christ.
>>
>> <http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-beauseigneura01.shtml>
>
> I read this article several times, it is fascinating in many ways.
>
> I disagree with the interpretation of the word Christian; that JKR is
> a "Christ follower" as opposed to a one who believes in the birth,
> death, resurrection and return of Christ.
More Potter books?
> If you take the latter and apply it to HP, then we must see
> Harry/Jesus as returning. Yet, in the series, he never dies. Methinks
> the author of the article chose "Christ follower" because it does not
> unglue the concept of Harry/Jesus.
More Potter books.
--
“Pâté is passé. Unicorn, the new white meat. An excellent source of
sparkles!”
Draco Malfoy
Harry/Jesus is allegorical.
VD
From the moment Dumbledore carried Baby Potter to the Dursleys in what
amounted to swaddling clothes, the Christ tie-in was apparent. The
darkness of DHI is not unlike the last days of Christ. Whether HP was
created by Rowling is "a fictionalized modern day adaptation of the
life of Christ, intended to introduce his character to a new
generation"...exactly which generation is this?
Draco Malfoy
Since JKR wrote starting in '97, the gen that was borne between '80+?
No idea. lol
I guess she feels that there has been a significant drop off in
Christian teachings since '80. I think this "introduction" stuff is
bullshit. My bet is that she wanted to introduce Jesus thru HP for
those who both had Christian upbringings and to sneak it in to those
who don't.
How many came to Christ in part or whole due to Rowling? I don't see
that statistic as a large one. First, you would have to be fairly
astute to make the allegorical matchup and second be somehow inspired
by the retelling allegorically.
VD
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:15:09 -0500, VD wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 00:47:39 -0500, QJ wrote:
>>
>>> Rowling has told us where to look to find out what is coming in the
>>> final book – her Christianity. She has told us that it’s so easy a
>>> 10-year -old could figure it out. The secret to Harry Potter is tied
>>> to Rowling’s Christianity. The master of the red herring has done it.
>>> She has tricked the entire world. What appears to be a book about
>>> witchcraft is a story about Jesus Christ.
>>>
>>> <http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-beauseigneura01.shtml>
>>
>> From the moment Dumbledore carried Baby Potter to the Dursleys in what
>> amounted to swaddling clothes, the Christ tie-in was apparent. The
>> darkness of DHI is not unlike the last days of Christ. Whether HP was
>> created by Rowling is "a fictionalized modern day adaptation of the
>> life of Christ, intended to introduce his character to a new
>> generation"...exactly which generation is this?
>
> Since JKR wrote starting in '97, the gen that was borne between '80+?
> No idea. lol
OK I can go with that.
> I guess she feels that there has been a significant drop off in
> Christian teachings since '80. I think this "introduction" stuff is
> bullshit. My bet is that she wanted to introduce Jesus thru HP for
> those who both had Christian upbringings and to sneak it in to those
> who don't.
Your assumption - unless I am wrong - is that Rowling was trying to
fill a void.
> How many came to Christ in part or whole due to Rowling? I don't see
> that statistic as a large one. First, you would have to be fairly
> astute to make the allegorical matchup and second be somehow inspired
> by the retelling allegorically.
If she is as bright as she seems, it would be entirely possible that
she understood that there would be no bulldozer effect. That HP books
and films would be traces of Christian teachings floating about inside
the minds of everyone.
Draco Malfoy
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 23:05:11 -0500, Draco Malfoy wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:15:09 -0500, VD wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 00:47:39 -0500, QJ wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rowling has told us where to look to find out what is coming in the
>>>> final book 嚙碾 her Christianity. She has told us that it嚙踝蕭s so easy a
>>>> 10-year -old could figure it out. The secret to Harry Potter is tied
>>>> to Rowling嚙踝蕭s Christianity. The master of the red herring has done it.
That idea makes sense. It makes little sense that she thru Potter
would expect that a gen of people ages 0-20 who had little religious
training in Christianity would be intrigued with the life of Christ
thru the Bible by reading Potter. They would simply not "get it".
VD
>>> How many came to Christ in part or whole due to Rowling? I don't see
>>> that statistic as a large one. First, you would have to be fairly
>>> astute to make the allegorical matchup and second be somehow inspired
>>> by the retelling allegorically.
>>
>> If she is as bright as she seems, it would be entirely possible that
>> she understood that there would be no bulldozer effect. That HP books
>> and films would be traces of Christian teachings floating about inside
>> the minds of everyone.
>
> That idea makes sense. It makes little sense that she thru Potter
> would expect that a gen of people ages 0-20 who had little religious
> training in Christianity would be intrigued with the life of Christ
> thru the Bible by reading Potter. They would simply not "get it".
Rowling never contemplated the immense success of Harry Potter. No
way, no how. To discuss the potential outcome of HP for the major
advancement of Christianity is silly, silly, silly.
HP was launched in 1997, she had been writing since 1995. That's three
years without any clue that Harry Potter was to be the international
success that it is. Don't count the movies. She had no way of knowing
that they were a possibility until 2000.
Which means that she had written Philosopher's Stone, Prisoner of
Azkaban, Chamber of Secrets and the Goblet of Fire before the movie
contract.
She had to be writing for a smaller audience in mind. Hence, it was
more a matter to her of representing Christianity for her satisfaction
than worrying about the masses and the masses reactions.
Draco Malfoy
>>> If she is as bright as she seems, it would be entirely possible that
>>> she understood that there would be no bulldozer effect. That HP books
>>> and films would be traces of Christian teachings floating about inside
>>> the minds of everyone.
>>
>> That idea makes sense. It makes little sense that she thru Potter
>> would expect that a gen of people ages 0-20 who had little religious
>> training in Christianity would be intrigued with the life of Christ
>> thru the Bible by reading Potter. They would simply not "get it".
>
> Rowling never contemplated the immense success of Harry Potter. No
> way, no how. To discuss the potential outcome of HP for the major
> advancement of Christianity is silly, silly, silly.
>
> HP was launched in 1997, she had been writing since 1995. That's three
> years without any clue that Harry Potter was to be the international
> success that it is. Don't count the movies. She had no way of knowing
> that they were a possibility until 2000.
>
> Which means that she had written Philosopher's Stone, Prisoner of
> Azkaban, Chamber of Secrets and the Goblet of Fire before the movie
> contract.
>
> She had to be writing for a smaller audience in mind. Hence, it was
> more a matter to her of representing Christianity for her satisfaction
> than worrying about the masses and the masses reactions.
Damn, Venereal Disease, we're not too far off from one another. Let's
see where this puts us in light of the article from the OP.
<http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-beauseigneura01.shtml>
1) Rowling wrote Harry Potter specifically around the life of Christ
allegorically.
2) She claims to have done so to bring Christianity to a "new
generation".
3) The first three books were written for a smaller, literary
audience.
VD
Given.
> 2) She claims to have done so to bring Christianity to a "new
> generation".
Is that her claim or the claims of others?
> 3) The first three books were written for a smaller, literary
> audience.
Which means that the remainder were influenced by the success, wider
audience and the movies?
Draco Malfoy
>>> Rowling never contemplated the immense success of Harry Potter. No
>>> way, no how. To discuss the potential outcome of HP for the major
>>> advancement of Christianity is silly, silly, silly.
>>>
>>> HP was launched in 1997, she had been writing since 1995. That's three
>>> years without any clue that Harry Potter was to be the international
>>> success that it is. Don't count the movies. She had no way of knowing
>>> that they were a possibility until 2000.
>>>
>>> Which means that she had written Philosopher's Stone, Prisoner of
>>> Azkaban, Chamber of Secrets and the Goblet of Fire before the movie
>>> contract.
>>>
>>> She had to be writing for a smaller audience in mind. Hence, it was
>>> more a matter to her of representing Christianity for her satisfaction
>>> than worrying about the masses and the masses reactions.
>>
>> Damn, Venereal Disease, we're not too far off from one another. Let's
>> see where this puts us in light of the article from the OP.
>>
>> <http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-beauseigneura01.shtml>
>>
>> 1) Rowling wrote Harry Potter specifically around the life of Christ
>> allegorically.
>
> Given.
>
>> 2) She claims to have done so to bring Christianity to a "new
>> generation".
>
> Is that her claim or the claims of others?
Others.
>> 3) The first three books were written for a smaller, literary
>> audience.
>
> Which means that the remainder were influenced by the success, wider
> audience and the movies?
Inevitably. Either by contract demand by Warner Brothers or by her
realization of her huge audience or subtly, psychologically.
Here is where I wonder if Rowling gave up on the death and
resurrection of Harry/Jesus. To this point, Harry's life was very much
inline with Jesus. Jesus died. Harry did not and could not.
Maybe she never anticipated writing that kind of death/bodily
resurrection kind of thing. Imagine trying to seell that to readers
and movie-goers.
It's too Christlike. The death, resurrection and promised 2nd Coming
are the extreme of the surreal.
VD
>>> Damn, Venereal Disease, we're not too far off from one another. Let's
>>> see where this puts us in light of the article from the OP.
>>>
>>> <http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-beauseigneura01.shtml>
>>>
>>> 1) Rowling wrote Harry Potter specifically around the life of Christ
>>> allegorically.
>>
>> Given.
>>
>>> 2) She claims to have done so to bring Christianity to a "new
>>> generation".
>>
>> Is that her claim or the claims of others?
>
> Others.
>
>>> 3) The first three books were written for a smaller, literary
>>> audience.
>>
>> Which means that the remainder were influenced by the success, wider
>> audience and the movies?
>
> Inevitably. Either by contract demand by Warner Brothers or by her
> realization of her huge audience or subtly, psychologically.
>
> Here is where I wonder if Rowling gave up on the death and
> resurrection of Harry/Jesus. To this point, Harry's life was very much
> inline with Jesus. Jesus died. Harry did not and could not.
Think about that. The life of Christ is the acceptance of the history
of death and resurrection and return of Christ. Rowling won't go there
with Harry. Why not?
> Maybe she never anticipated writing that kind of death/bodily
> resurrection kind of thing. Imagine trying to seell that to readers
> and movie-goers.
Hm.
> It's too Christlike. The death, resurrection and promised 2nd Coming
> are the extreme of the surreal.
Yet millions believe it so.
Draco Malfoy
>>>> 3) The first three books were written for a smaller, literary
>>>> audience.
>>>
>>> Which means that the remainder were influenced by the success, wider
>>> audience and the movies?
>>
>> Inevitably. Either by contract demand by Warner Brothers or by her
>> realization of her huge audience or subtly, psychologically.
>>
>> Here is where I wonder if Rowling gave up on the death and
>> resurrection of Harry/Jesus. To this point, Harry's life was very much
>> inline with Jesus. Jesus died. Harry did not and could not.
>
> Think about that. The life of Christ is the acceptance of the history
> of death and resurrection and return of Christ. Rowling won't go there
> with Harry. Why not?
>
>> Maybe she never anticipated writing that kind of death/bodily
>> resurrection kind of thing. Imagine trying to seell that to readers
>> and movie-goers.
>
> Hm.
>
>> It's too Christlike. The death, resurrection and promised 2nd Coming
>> are the extreme of the surreal.
>
> Yet millions believe it so.
Which empowers the Bible. Powerful, enchanting and believable although
ancient, hotly debated as to its authenticity and relevance.
Rowling and Harry Potter - powerful, enchanting but always wrapped in
fiction and...allegory.
Millions believe in Christ as the Redeemer, as an historical and
spiritual fact/person/Deity.
Rowling may have seen Harry Potter as a true parallel to Christ, death
and resurrection et al. If that was ever the case, that concept had to
die when the series went from a nice idea to the Potter series we
know.
VD
>>> Here is where I wonder if Rowling gave up on the death and
>>> resurrection of Harry/Jesus. To this point, Harry's life was very much
>>> inline with Jesus. Jesus died. Harry did not and could not.
>>
>> Think about that. The life of Christ is the acceptance of the history
>> of death and resurrection and return of Christ. Rowling won't go there
>> with Harry. Why not?
>>
>>> Maybe she never anticipated writing that kind of death/bodily
>>> resurrection kind of thing. Imagine trying to seell that to readers
>>> and movie-goers.
>>
>> Hm.
>>
>>> It's too Christlike. The death, resurrection and promised 2nd Coming
>>> are the extreme of the surreal.
>>
>> Yet millions believe it so.
>
> Which empowers the Bible. Powerful, enchanting and believable although
> ancient, hotly debated as to its authenticity and relevance.
>
> Rowling and Harry Potter - powerful, enchanting but always wrapped in
> fiction and...allegory.
Here enters Rowlings Christianity at play. She understands that the
life of Christ is so remarkable that allegory is fine but to follow
the path of Christ to its remarkable conclusions is infertile
territory.
One may believe in Christ but to append the resurrection and 2nd
coming to a mortal (wizards are still mortal) requires more than
imagination, an acute interest in Potter, fandom...
Belief in Christ requires faith. Faith is not for allegorical
characters, it is reserved for Christ.
> Millions believe in Christ as the Redeemer, as an historical and
> spiritual fact/person/Deity.
>
> Rowling may have seen Harry Potter as a true parallel to Christ, death
> and resurrection et al. If that was ever the case, that concept had to
> die when the series went from a nice idea to the Potter series we
> know.
Funny this. Warner Brothers aligned with Christian faith.
Draco Malfoy
Well said.
>> Millions believe in Christ as the Redeemer, as an historical and
>> spiritual fact/person/Deity.
>>
>> Rowling may have seen Harry Potter as a true parallel to Christ, death
>> and resurrection et al. If that was ever the case, that concept had to
>> die when the series went from a nice idea to the Potter series we
>> know.
>
> Funny this. Warner Brothers aligned with Christian faith.
I will guarantee you that WB never considered that in their decisions,
influences and production of the Harry Potter series.
VD
No more than J. K. Rowling ever imagined that her reinvention and
plagiarisation of a glass spectacled cartoon character would
sensationalize her subtle but undeniable Christian message.
Luck? Timing?
Or the hand of Christ inside an Invisibility Cloak? :)
Draco Malfoy
The author of the article in debate
http://www.selectivehouse.com/harrypotter.htm
is Abigail BeauSeigneur, daughter of Warner Books science fiction
author James BeauSeigneur. Nowhere could I find this interesting bit
in any of Ms. BeauSeigneur' s publishings.
This casts an entirely different light on her agenda. WB has heard
loud and clear the anti-HP Klan which espouses Potter novels/movies a
acts of the Demon.
What better way to introduce the purity of Potter by writing articles
that align it with Christianity.
VD
James BeauSeigneur? heh. ex-NSA, The Christ Clone Trilogy.
Another viewpoint, backfire...of Hell and Damnation?
<http://prophezine.blogspot.com/2010/05/deceived-deluded-and-lukewarm.html>
Draco Malfoy
wow Fundies can be fucked dudes.
NTL, the BeauSeigneurs connection Christianity and with Warner Bros.
does bring with it serious questions of the use of disinformation
which James BeauSeigneur would be well versed as a defense analyst of
an intelligence arm of the USA.
So what do you do with this information?
VD
Compile it.
She comes from a Christian family that walks on the side of what many
would call darkness. Reading Tolkein, Potter, and other fictionalized
Christian allegories. Or that is what the BeauSeigneurs would call
them.
It's in her blood to write the article "Is Harry Potter the Son of
God?" I imagine Daddy was proud. :)
Cannot deny that the tie-ins with Warner are quite troubling and
MuggleNet has often been designed as Rowling's most favoured fan
website.
Methinks that the article serves many purposes.
Draco Malfoy
Rowling pretty much wrote the movie script in her novels, so much of
the dialogue comes verbatim. I can imagine her sitting with Warner
Bros. and discussing the potential anti-backlash from the Religious
Right. She knew the day would have to come where she fessed up to
the allegorical content of Potter. When she did, it was generalized
"I am a Christian and that's all I will say about that" kinda thing.
Now the quote which begins Ms. BeauSeigneurs' article
http://www.selectivehouse.com/harrypotter.htm
came from Rowling after the first four books were published. It is
the first time she is on record admitting her Christianity. What was
the interviewing world thinking?
NTL, that places the quote in Oct 2000
http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2000/1000-vancouversun-wyman.htm
it wasn't until 2007 Ms. BeauSeigneurs' article was published. Was
there something that drove this publishing that many years after the
backlash which had already begun in 1997ish?
VD
July 11, 2007 was the year of Warner Brothers released the movie based
upon Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, and 10 days later on
July 21, the last book in the series, entitled Harry Potter and the
Deathly Hallows was published.
This, along with the 10th anniversary of the publication of Book 1 on
June 27th, created the "perfect storm" for summations of the Potter
phenomenon, goodbyes to Harry, and tell-all interviews with author
J.K. Rowling.
In October, Rowling made her *first tour of North America* in seven
years, stopping in Los Angeles, New Orleans, New York and Toronto.
The article was published 7/13/07
<http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-beauseigneura01.shtml>
I was once told by an ex-CIA operative that there "are no
coincidences".
Draco Malfoy
continued from:
or
http://preview.tinyurl.com/36dgvjn
Well, I'll be damned.
That's enough conditional and circumstantial evidence that a
speechless prosecutor could get a conviction with sign language. lol
Let's see what we have here.
-James BeauSeigneur (JB) Christ Clone Trilogy rights were sold and
reclaimed from Warner Brothers (WB).
<- http://www.facebook.com/ChristCloneTrilogy/posts/110104832373052>
- JB's daughter Abigail BeauSeigneur (AB) writes an *extremely* and
*extraordinarily* timely pro-Harry Potter piece for Mugglenet
<http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-beauseigneura01.shtml>
and
http://www.selectivehouse.com/harrypotter.htm
- The piece was written in July 13, 2007 when
http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/list2007.html
*7* years after Ms. Rowling (JKR) admits the Christian intentions in
writing Potter.
<http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2000/1000-vancouversun-wyman.htm>
- AB has been given the rare privilege of interviewing JKR
"Ms. BeauSeigneur builds her argument on interviews with Harry Potter
author J.K. Rowling..."
http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/715373653.html
and the Christian tabloids run with it.
- The inside cover of the U.S. edition of "Deathly Hallows" has "the
end of the piece, which is on the US edition's cover and viewable on
Amazon"...<not corroborated)
http://hsc.homestead.com/archive/2007/07_16_adler.html
Did I miss anything?
VD
Several :)
The ties between Mugglenet JKRs favourite HP site and its owner
Emerson Spartz. The release of Spranz' book Mugglenet.Com's What Will
Happen in Harry Potter 7: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love and
How Will the Adventure Finally End in late 2006. Perfectly timed
between Book 6 and Book 7 (Hallows), it would be hard not to
conjecture a open ended communication between ES and JKR.
ES book is much ado about nothing rather a collection of plagiarized
theories muggled from Mugglenetters.
"Slick git" comes to mind. If Daddy BeauSeigneur didn't make the
connection for his duaghters article to be published in Mugglenet,
Warner Brothers directly or via JKR certainly could. Good, covert
marketing takes open commo. :)
Draco Malfoy
Looks like we are getting press.
or
http://preview.tinyurl.com/236qzh7
We're the Number one hit on 29Dec2010.
VD
Everyone loves and exposition. :)
Draco Malfoy
lol
I have forwarded a copy of the links to this discussion to everyone
who has been mentioned in case they would like to come forward and be
reamed, er, represent their case.
Including the Church Of England who in July 2007 released a pamphlet
advising youth workers on how to use Harry Potter to spread the
Christian message. ‘Mixing it up with Harry Potter: 12 sessions on
faith’ outlines how to use the books and films as ‘a launch pad’ for
exploring Christian themes.
<http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/religion_theseeker/2007/07/is-potter-pagan.html>
was pushing Abbey BeauSeigneur's article as were many, many others in
the American press. Press? A full court press? A full court,
orchestrates press.
VD
> orchestrated press.
Basketball allegory?
What we see unfolding is a dramatic effort by Warner, the
BeauSeigneurs, JKR the pressing press and the Christian community
non-fundie. Everyone has something to gain it appears.
It is insincere to think that this effort was not conspiratorial.
Draco Malfoy
What bothers me is that the communities, especially the BeauSeigneurs,
did not openly reveal their intertwining connections. They hid them
until excellent investigators came along and put the pieces together.
No disclaimers, nothing.
Why?
For WBros it's all about the money, they were after a market of
non-fundie Christians who were being eliminated at the pulpits.
For the BeauSeigneurs, James got his rights for the Christ Clone
Trilogy returned...from Warner...Abbey BeauSeigneur gets free press to
launch whatever and the MuggleNetters get a scoop. Scoops draw readers
and subscribers.
The question is what did the Christian community get from this
unnecessary intrigue?
VD
Impossible to statistically tell. Studies were showing that interest
in witchcraft and wicca was rising, many claim dramatically.
If Rowling is a Christian, this would have been intolerable. The non
fundamentalist Christian Church had not embraced a Christian writer.
Not only a Christian writer but one that had from 1990 the primary
intention to influence Christian and non Christian readers to Christ.
In a way, that was a colossal, Hagridian failure.
Draco Malfoy
I need to take a break and look harder at this. It's the most
important piece to consider.
JKR either in cahoots with Warner et al put off for 17 years the
Harry/Jesus theme. To cash out first? To Big Bang the underlying
Christian focus and effect? Both?
We may have a fraud or a genius or some combination of each. We *know*
we have a conspiracy.
I'm going to do some research and get back.
VD
Ok, same here, later, to compare notes.