CHOW ADWD Tyrion I
John Vreeland
Martin's, _A Dance With Dragons_
We do not currently have a sign-up list so perhaps somebody ought to
start one.
This is the first Tyrion Chapter.
This chapter was originally posted online at GRRM's site shortly
before he decided to remove it from the last book, so it's been around
a while.
We last saw Tyrion being escorted to safety by Varys from the black
cells and his father's and Shae's cooling corpses. He had begun to
wonder what had happened to Tysha now that he knew she had truly loved
him. He had killed his father for disaraging her memory again and
when they reached the edge of the Blackwater he remarked on it to
Varys.
"Where do whores go? I killed Shae, too." he confessed.
"You knew what she was."
"I did. but I never knew what he was."
Varys tittered. "And now you do."
"He drank himself across the Narrow Sea." That pretty much sums up
the rest of the beginning. Eventually he is removed from the barrel
in which he has been stuffed by Illyrio Mopatis, who invites him to
partake of the pleasures of his palace while he is busy fulfilling his
role as a Pentoshi Magister.
Tyrion bides his time by making contingency plans and asking everyone
he meets, "where do whores go?"
After wandering a bit he stumbles upon seven poisonous mushrooms
growing in a crack and conceals them in his pocket.
He is awakened in his bed by a whore from Lys who was acquired to
service Aerys. Her apparent revulsion annoys him and he teases her
viciously.
When he meets Illyrio over one of the most sumptuous meals imaginable
the Magister mentions some of the troubles brewing in the East. The
fall of Astapor and Mereen. The slave revolts. Then he presents to
Tyrion a secially prepared dish of mushrooms and asks him to taste
them. Something in his voice makes Tyrion suspicious and it turns out
that the mushrooms are harmless but Illyrio is playing a game with him
in order to find out what Tyrion has to live for. The answer is
apparently nothing, but Illyrio offers to change that.
Tyrion learns that Stannis is at the Wall for some reason and realizes
that raising up Myrcella would succeed only in getting her killed. So
what to do? Illyrio offers to send him to a better hear to the Iron
Throne: Danaerys.
=========
So a short chapter overall.
No gore unless you count Tyrion covered in his own vomit. Few laughs,
a bit of Tyrion wondering what it would be like to have a girl who
openly despised him, "refreshing." not what I would call true
titillation.
So this begins the "Tyrion in Essos" story. And what an epic it is.
How many of you thought it was just going to be a quick chapter and
"Hello Dany, Illyrio Mopatis sent me to help you." In case you did
harbor such foolish hopes, remember that Cersei's hunters are
everywhere looking for dwarves.
--
My years on the mudpit that is Usnenet have taught me one important thing: three Creation Scientists can have a serious conversation, if two of them are sock puppets.
Will in New Haven
> This is a gods-be-damned Chapter of the Week (or so) for George R. R.
> Martin's, _A Dance With Dragons_
>
> We do not currently have a sign-up list so perhaps somebody ought to
> start one.
If I start one it won't have my name on it.
>
> This is the first Tyrion Chapter.
>
> This chapter was originally posted online at GRRM's site shortly
> before he decided to remove it from the last book, so it's been around
> a while.
I didn't read it there. I took some peeks at some of the preview stuff
but never read any whole chapters.
>
> We last saw Tyrion being escorted to safety by Varys from the black
> cells and his father's and Shae's cooling corpses. He had begun to
> wonder what had happened to Tysha now that he knew she had truly loved
> him. He had killed his father for disaraging her memory again and
> when they reached the edge of the Blackwater he remarked on it to
> Varys.
>
> "Where do whores go? I killed Shae, too." he confessed.
> "You knew what she was."
> "I did. but I never knew what he was."
> Varys tittered. "And now you do."
>
> "He drank himself across the Narrow Sea." That pretty much sums up
> the rest of the beginning. Eventually he is removed from the barrel
> in which he has been stuffed by Illyrio Mopatis, who invites him to
> partake of the pleasures of his palace while he is busy fulfilling his
> role as a Pentoshi Magister.
>
> Tyrion bides his time by making contingency plans and asking everyone
> he meets, "where do whores go?"
>
> After wandering a bit he stumbles upon seven poisonous mushrooms
> growing in a crack and conceals them in his pocket.
>
> He is awakened in his bed by a whore from Lys who was acquired to
> service Aerys. Her apparent revulsion annoys him and he teases her
> viciously.
>
> When he meets Illyrio over one of the most sumptuous meals imaginable
One of Martin's minor failures is that he tells you that it is a
sumptuous meal but it never comes across as one. An early lunch at
Valabar's in Brust's Dragaera setting is more food porn than Martin
could do in a year.
> the Magister mentions some of the troubles brewing in the East. The
> fall of Astapor and Mereen. The slave revolts. Then he presents to
> Tyrion a secially prepared dish of mushrooms and asks him to taste
> them. Something in his voice makes Tyrion suspicious and it turns out
> that the mushrooms are harmless but Illyrio is playing a game with him
> in order to find out what Tyrion has to live for. The answer is
> apparently nothing, but Illyrio offers to change that.
>
> Tyrion learns that Stannis is at the Wall for some reason and realizes
> that raising up Myrcella would succeed only in getting her killed. So
> what to do? Illyrio offers to send him to a better hear to the Iron
> Throne: Danaerys.
He seems to have already _known_ that raising her up would get her
killed, at least according to his thoughts in this scene. However,
that isn't really like him. He likes her and isn't a monster.
>
> =========
>
> So a short chapter overall.
>
> No gore unless you count Tyrion covered in his own vomit. Few laughs,
> a bit of Tyrion wondering what it would be like to have a girl who
> openly despised him, "refreshing." not what I would call true
> titillation.
>
> So this begins the "Tyrion in Essos" story. And what an epic it is.
> How many of you thought it was just going to be a quick chapter and
> "Hello Dany, Illyrio Mopatis sent me to help you." In case you did
> harbor such foolish hopes, remember that Cersei's hunters are
> everywhere looking for dwarves.
And remember that Martin never wants to _finish_ anything. And, if you
are smart, which I wasn't, stop reading this crap now.
--
Will in New Haven
Ben
> This is a gods-be-damned Chapter of the Week (or so) for George R. R.
> Martin's, _A Dance With Dragons_
>
>
> This chapter was originally posted online at GRRM's site shortly
> before he decided to remove it from the last book, so it's been around
> a while.
>
at all. This was just an appetizer...
> We last saw Tyrion being escorted to safety by Varys from the black
> cells and his father's and Shae's cooling corpses. He had begun to
> wonder what had happened to Tysha now that he knew she had truly loved
> him. He had killed his father for disaraging her memory again and
> when they reached the edge of the Blackwater he remarked on it to
> Varys.
>
> "Where do whores go? I killed Shae, too." he confessed.
> "You knew what she was."
> "I did. but I never knew what he was."
> Varys tittered. "And now you do."
>
Could this possible be true? Tyrion certainly seemed to know who Tywin
Lannister was. He did far worse things that his son certainly knew
about. It didn't seem out of character at all to me (though bedding
Shae was strange) all the fucked up shit he did to boy-Tyrion and even
now. It was all about demasculating the only child he had with half a
brain and Tyrion seemed to be quite aware of that previously.
> "He drank himself across the Narrow Sea." That pretty much sums up
> the rest of the beginning. Eventually he is removed from the barrel
> in which he has been stuffed by Illyrio Mopatis, who invites him to
> partake of the pleasures of his palace while he is busy fulfilling his
> role as a Pentoshi Magister.
>
> Tyrion bides his time by making contingency plans and asking everyone
> he meets, "where do whores go?"
>
The "where do whores go?" mantra that Tyrion kept spouting seemed a
little deranged to me. I know he was facing the reality of what he
did, but to be honest, Tywin deserved it, Tyrion did the right thing.
I get that he is so guilty that he feels he needs to drink himself to
death (as he nearly does), but is this sort of strange chant meant to
mean something? I thought it curious at first, then downright bizarre,
particularly as he kept asking people, as if they might have an answer
for him. But maybe this is just plotting over my head.
> After wandering a bit he stumbles upon seven poisonous mushrooms
> growing in a crack and conceals them in his pocket.
>
> He is awakened in his bed by a whore from Lys who was acquired to
> service Aerys. Her apparent revulsion annoys him and he teases her
> viciously.
>
But tries to be nice to her first. Then her idiocy and inability to
mask her distaste for him sets him off. He also utilizes her services
just because she is so repulsed, otherwise he was going to let her
off.
> When he meets Illyrio over one of the most sumptuous meals imaginable
> the Magister mentions some of the troubles brewing in the East. The
> fall of Astapor and Mereen. The slave revolts. Then he presents to
> Tyrion a secially prepared dish of mushrooms and asks him to taste
> them. Something in his voice makes Tyrion suspicious and it turns out
> that the mushrooms are harmless but Illyrio is playing a game with him
> in order to find out what Tyrion has to live for. The answer is
> apparently nothing, but Illyrio offers to change that.
>
This is also to call out that he knows what Tyrion was planning with
the mushrooms and Illyrio I think would have been okay with Tyrion
suiciding. If he was going down that path, better to do it now than to
waste a bunch of the Pentoshi's time and money first.
> Tyrion learns that Stannis is at the Wall for some reason and realizes
> that raising up Myrcella would succeed only in getting her killed. So
> what to do? Illyrio offers to send him to a better hear to the Iron
> Throne: Danaerys.
>
Raising up Myrcella was always a fool's strategy. I think even Martell
believed that, though he seems to be up for just about anything that
will allow him to rebel and have some chance of winning. Of course the
Myrcella thing just seems to be a holding tactic right now, a hostage
more than anything else.
> =========
>
> So a short chapter overall.
>
> No gore unless you count Tyrion covered in his own vomit. Few laughs,
> a bit of Tyrion wondering what it would be like to have a girl who
> openly despised him, "refreshing." not what I would call true
> titillation.
>
Or really any kind of stimulation at all, particularly for a Tyrion
chapter. He usually gets some nice wicked laughs. He is grim and
depressing in this chapter, which also otherwise tells us nothing we
don't already know.
> So this begins the "Tyrion in Essos" story. And what an epic it is.
> How many of you thought it was just going to be a quick chapter and
> "Hello Dany, Illyrio Mopatis sent me to help you." In case you did
> harbor such foolish hopes, remember that Cersei's hunters are
> everywhere looking for dwarves.
>
I did assume that Tyrion would actually meet up with Daenerys at some
point. He seems more to be a touch point between the various other new
characters (and a few old ones). I think it is actually fascinating
that Tyrion never does run into any mercenaries that are willing to
take him back to King's Landing. The reward is immense, clearly those
across the sea have heard of it, and most of them seem ready to rape
their mother for a plug nickel.
Good short CHOW Vree. Probably not going to be much in the way of
comments since this chapter has been around for years and years...
Ben
John Vreeland
I'll take your word for it. Suffice to say it is one of the most
sumptuous meals _Tyrion_ has ever eaten.
>> the Magister mentions some of the troubles brewing in the East. �The
>> fall of Astapor and Mereen. �The slave revolts. �Then he presents to
>> Tyrion a secially prepared dish of mushrooms and asks him to taste
>> them. �Something in his voice makes Tyrion suspicious and it turns out
>> that the mushrooms are harmless but Illyrio is playing a game with him
>> in order to find out what Tyrion has to live for. �The answer is
>> apparently nothing, but Illyrio offers to �change that.
>>
>> Tyrion learns that Stannis is at the Wall for some reason and realizes
>> that raising up Myrcella would succeed only in getting her killed. So
>> what to do? Illyrio offers to send him to a better hear to the Iron
>> Throne: Danaerys.
>
>He seems to have already _known_ that raising her up would get her
>killed, at least according to his thoughts in this scene. However,
>that isn't really like him. He likes her and isn't a monster.
I suppose he was just toying with the idea because of how much it
would vex his sister. Did't he go through this thought process
already with the Viper? But then he was serious about it, partly
because Oberyn Martel was going to save his ass in the bargain. Here
he was just thinking out loud to some washerwomen he thought could not
understand him.
>>
>> =========
>>
>> So a short chapter overall.
>>
>> No gore unless you count Tyrion covered in his own vomit. �Few laughs,
>> a bit of Tyrion wondering what it would be like to have a girl who
>> openly despised him, "refreshing." �not what I would call true
>> titillation. �
>>
>> So this begins the "Tyrion in Essos" story. �And what an epic it is.
>> How many of you thought it was just going to be a quick chapter and
>> "Hello Dany, Illyrio Mopatis sent me to help you." �In case you did
>> harbor such foolish hopes, remember that Cersei's hunters are
>> everywhere looking for dwarves.
>
>And remember that Martin never wants to _finish_ anything. And, if you
>are smart, which I wasn't, stop reading this crap now.
Too late.
But Martin finished his other stuff. I assume he has an ending or
else HBO would not have ... wait a sec, that's not an argument. To
HBO the lack of an ending might have been a selling point.
John Vreeland
No, separating him from his first wife is one thing, and punishing her
for being an uppity whore is also something, but taking your son's
wife and turning her into a whore in order give the boy "a sharp
lesson" was probably unexpected. Heck, the whole thing was over the
top even if she _had_ been a whore, and it had been one of Tyrion's
frequent recollections, but that Tywin could have done this to an
innocent girl who Tyrion obviously loved showed just how little Tywin
cared for either of those two things.
Bedding Shae was not strange at all when you consider that it was
Tywin Lannister who had ordered the construction of the secret tunnel
to Chataya's. Varys never says it directly, but he alludes to a
previous Hand who was jealous of his dignity. Also, Shae was highly
skilled and Tywin may have believed her cover story.
>> "He drank himself across the Narrow Sea." �That pretty much sums up
>> the rest of the beginning. �Eventually he is removed from the barrel
>> in which he has been stuffed by Illyrio Mopatis, who invites him to
>> partake of the pleasures of his palace while he is busy fulfilling his
>> role as a Pentoshi Magister.
>>
>> Tyrion bides his time by making contingency plans and asking everyone
>> he meets, "where do whores go?"
>>
>The "where do whores go?" mantra that Tyrion kept spouting seemed a
>little deranged to me. I know he was facing the reality of what he
>did, but to be honest, Tywin deserved it, Tyrion did the right thing.
>I get that he is so guilty that he feels he needs to drink himself to
>death (as he nearly does), but is this sort of strange chant meant to
>mean something? I thought it curious at first, then downright bizarre,
>particularly as he kept asking people, as if they might have an answer
>for him. But maybe this is just plotting over my head.
I don't think he feels guilty about Tywin at all. I think he
understands now that Tywin was a monster and was needing a good
death, though the taboo against kinslaying might upset his stomach a
bit. I think he is drinking himself to death because he has just
discovered that it wasn't some greedy trickster whore he gave to a
barracks full of soldiers but was actually his wife, a woman he loved
and swore to protect. How do you deal with that? At least he killed
the bastard who did it to him, but that won't bring Tysha back...and
yet she might be out there, alive, the only woman who would ever love
him.
>> After wandering a bit he stumbles upon seven poisonous mushrooms
>> growing in a crack and conceals them in his pocket.
>>
>> He is awakened in his bed by a whore from Lys who was acquired to
>> service Aerys. �Her apparent revulsion annoys him and he teases her
>> viciously.
>But tries to be nice to her first. Then her idiocy and inability to
>mask her distaste for him sets him off. He also utilizes her services
>just because she is so repulsed, otherwise he was going to let her
>off.
She was obviously not trained properly. Or had grown accustomed to
servicing her single client.
>> When he meets Illyrio over one of the most sumptuous meals imaginable
>> the Magister mentions some of the troubles brewing in the East. �The
>> fall of Astapor and Mereen. �The slave revolts. �Then he presents to
>> Tyrion a secially prepared dish of mushrooms and asks him to taste
>> them. �Something in his voice makes Tyrion suspicious and it turns out
>> that the mushrooms are harmless but Illyrio is playing a game with him
>> in order to find out what Tyrion has to live for. �The answer is
>> apparently nothing, but Illyrio offers to �change that.
>>
>This is also to call out that he knows what Tyrion was planning with
>the mushrooms and Illyrio I think would have been okay with Tyrion
>suiciding. If he was going down that path, better to do it now than to
>waste a bunch of the Pentoshi's time and money first.
I think this is unlikely for two reasons. First I just don't think
anyone saw Tyrion take the mushrooms. No hints were suggested in the
text to anything other than than it was completely secret. Second is
that Illyrio would have mentioned them, I think. Why do you want to
join Stannis? Why do you want to kill your niece? Why were you
collecting mushrooms? It means that Illyrio's dish is a coincidence
but the fat Pentoshi wanted to make a dramatic point over supper and
there simply isn't any food item he could use outside of maybe
pufferfish that would scare anyone.
>> Tyrion learns that Stannis is at the Wall for some reason and realizes
>> that raising up Myrcella would succeed only in getting her killed. So
>> what to do? Illyrio offers to send him to a better hear to the Iron
>> Throne: Danaerys.
>>
>Raising up Myrcella was always a fool's strategy. I think even Martell
>believed that, though he seems to be up for just about anything that
>will allow him to rebel and have some chance of winning. Of course the
>Myrcella thing just seems to be a holding tactic right now, a hostage
>more than anything else.
Oberyn Martell had put it out there, and Tyrion loved toying with the
idea, but yes, that did not mean it was going to happen. I am pretty
sure that Oberyn understood as well as his brother how outmanned Dorne
was against the strength of King's Landing.
>> =========
>>
>> So a short chapter overall.
>>
>> No gore unless you count Tyrion covered in his own vomit. �Few laughs,
>> a bit of Tyrion wondering what it would be like to have a girl who
>> openly despised him, "refreshing." �not what I would call true
>> titillation. �
>>
>Or really any kind of stimulation at all, particularly for a Tyrion
>chapter. He usually gets some nice wicked laughs. He is grim and
>depressing in this chapter, which also otherwise tells us nothing we
>don't already know.
Necessarily appropriate, though. He has only just dicovered how truly
tragic his life with father has been. And now he has probably lost
Jaime, the only other person on earth he ever loved. If Chucky starts
whining about his "where do whores go" mantra I will smake him with a
lutefisk or whatever those things are called.
>> So this begins the "Tyrion in Essos" story. �And what an epic it is.
>> How many of you thought it was just going to be a quick chapter and
>> "Hello Dany, Illyrio Mopatis sent me to help you." �In case you did
>> harbor such foolish hopes, remember that Cersei's hunters are
>> everywhere looking for dwarves.
>>
>I did assume that Tyrion would actually meet up with Daenerys at some
>point. He seems more to be a touch point between the various other new
>characters (and a few old ones). I think it is actually fascinating
>that Tyrion never does run into any mercenaries that are willing to
>take him back to King's Landing. The reward is immense, clearly those
>across the sea have heard of it, and most of them seem ready to rape
>their mother for a plug nickel.
Or kill random dwarves. But all the Westerosi that Tyrion meets (save
two, and one of them is another dwarf) are approved by Illyrio. Brown
Ben might be another exception, but he, like many others, had been
fighting on Slaver's Bay and might not even have heard about Cersei's
offer. Perhaps by the time they do hear about it it will come with
news that Queen Cersei had been arrested and charged.
>Good short CHOW Vree. Probably not going to be much in the way of
>comments since this chapter has been around for years and years...
We shall see. Not everyone reads the sample chapters. And there is
the fact that we now have this chapter in context.
Chucky & Janica
<john.v...@ieee.org> wrote:
>No gore unless you count Tyrion covered in his own vomit. Few laughs,
>a bit of Tyrion wondering what it would be like to have a girl who
>openly despised him, "refreshing." not what I would call true
>titillation.
He does get darker and less lovable in this story, but I still find it
quite a believable character development. He's been smacked around,
and to stay the way he was would leave him no better than Jaime.
>So this begins the "Tyrion in Essos" story. And what an epic it is.
>How many of you thought it was just going to be a quick chapter and
>"Hello Dany, Illyrio Mopatis sent me to help you."
Heh, no.
>In case you did
>harbor such foolish hopes, remember that Cersei's hunters are
>everywhere looking for dwarves.
And dwarves looking for dwarves, and so on.
C&J
Chucky & Janica
<frodoli...@aol.com> wrote:
>The "where do whores go?" mantra that Tyrion kept spouting seemed a
>little deranged to me. I know he was facing the reality of what he
>did, but to be honest, Tywin deserved it, Tyrion did the right thing.
>I get that he is so guilty that he feels he needs to drink himself to
>death (as he nearly does), but is this sort of strange chant meant to
>mean something?
Well, looking for Tysha, sort of.
C&J
Chucky & Janica
<john.v...@ieee.org> wrote:
>I don't think he feels guilty about Tywin at all. I think he
>understands now that Tywin was a monster and was needing a good
>death, though the taboo against kinslaying might upset his stomach a
>bit.
I just adore the way you say "the taboo against kinslaying", like it's
some sort of social faux pas like serving red wine with fish.
>Necessarily appropriate, though. He has only just dicovered how truly
>tragic his life with father has been. And now he has probably lost
>Jaime, the only other person on earth he ever loved. If Chucky starts
>whining about his "where do whores go" mantra I will smake him with a
>lutefisk or whatever those things are called.
Why would I whine? It seemed to make perfect sense to me. Not only was
it more or less his father's last words, it is about Tysha, who Tyrion
really seems to be hoping to find somewhere.
My guess is, he's not going to.
>>Good short CHOW Vree. Probably not going to be much in the way of
>>comments since this chapter has been around for years and years...
>
>We shall see. Not everyone reads the sample chapters. And there is
>the fact that we now have this chapter in context.
Yep, I didn't read any (either?) of them.
C&J
John Vreeland
<janica...@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
>On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 00:07:58 -0400, John Vreeland
><john.v...@ieee.org> wrote:
>
>>I don't think he feels guilty about Tywin at all. I think he
>>understands now that Tywin was a monster and was needing a good
>>death, though the taboo against kinslaying might upset his stomach a
>>bit.
>
>I just adore the way you say "the taboo against kinslaying", like it's
>some sort of social faux pas like serving red wine with fish.
>
>>Necessarily appropriate, though. He has only just dicovered how truly
>>tragic his life with father has been. And now he has probably lost
>>Jaime, the only other person on earth he ever loved. If Chucky starts
>>whining about his "where do whores go" mantra I will smake him with a
>>lutefisk or whatever those things are called.
>
>Why would I whine? It seemed to make perfect sense to me. Not only was
>it more or less his father's last words, it is about Tysha, who Tyrion
>really seems to be hoping to find somewhere.
>
>My guess is, he's not going to.
No, it is too improbable given the information he has. He knows this
and so he is in a sense praying for help with that mantra.
>>>Good short CHOW Vree. Probably not going to be much in the way of
>>>comments since this chapter has been around for years and years...
>>
>>We shall see. Not everyone reads the sample chapters. And there is
>>the fact that we now have this chapter in context.
>
>Yep, I didn't read any (either?) of them.
I think there was only one important change in the story: the
inclusion of the mushrooms--both sets--which I do not remember from
the website. Clearly Martin realized a need for them in some future
chapter.
--
Some aspects of life would be a lot easier if Creationists were required to carry warning signs. Fortunately, many of them already do.
Chucky & Janica
<john.v...@ieee.org> wrote:
>I think there was only one important change in the story: the
>inclusion of the mushrooms--both sets--which I do not remember from
>the website. Clearly Martin realized a need for them in some future
>chapter.
Could Martin be planning ahead? Improbable!
Still, you never know when you're going to need one of your characters
to suddenly remember he has a sock-full of poison mushrooms. And the
added potency of having been across half the Free Cities in a dwarf's
sock is just going to be the icing on the cake.
C&J
Although to be honest, Tyrion always struck me as more of a halfling
(in the vein of Belkar Bitterleaf) than a dwarf.