Acts of Faith Are Everywhere in Life
PhilosopherGuy
her recent airflight on a commercial
airliner, her first since 9-11. She
was surprised with the now routine
security checks and airplane noise,
noting those who fly often are making
"acts of faith."
How true it is, along with driving
the freeways, entrusting children to
day care and schools, and other acts
of faith we all do every day.
Her statements seem to depart from
Doc's insistence that faith acts were
only tithing, coming to the cathedral,
serving as a VoF, only giving to him,
Gene Scott. I have had this very
argument with scotties, that faith
acts abound in every town, church,
school, store, airport and household
around the world.
PhilosopherGuy
wants to do and have the viewers do is
an act of faith (including condoning
smoking and banning smoking, depending
on what the pastor wants at the time)>
Everything else that the Pastor Scott
doesn't want to do or have the viewers
do is NOT an act of faith, and often
demonstrates lack of being plugged
into faith.
That must be how it works.
Emmett
PhilosopherGuy wrote:
Emmett writes:
I'm confused??????
Papillon
If the focus of that faith isn't God then it's not the kind of faith
that God is looking for.
And flying is extremely safe. Far safer than driving a car on a
crowded freeway or even standing up in a bathtub full of water.
Stephanie
back and forth to Mexico.
Roth
Swim ? Ride her broom ??
Roth
Papillon
Was that before or after 9/11? Has she been busted in a fib?
Roth
>Swim ? Ride her broom ??
>
> Roth
>
Was that before or after 9/11? Has she been busted in a fib?
========================================
I don't keep any of her 'sermons' but I'm almost sure she said
she went to Italy about 2 months ago(?) on a Sunday broadcast.
I'm sure that SIO or some of the other insiders would know, if
they would be willing to tell it.
Roth
gondar
Why this completely wrong caricature:
********
Her statements seem to depart from
Doc's insistence that faith acts were
only tithing, coming to the cathedral,
serving as a VoF, only giving to him,
Gene Scott. I have had this very
argument with scotties, that faith
acts abound in every town, church,
school, store, airport and household
around the world.
*************
Doc never said this or anything even approaching this.
There is a huge difference between the faith of daily life (Doc often
talked about how getting out of bed was an act of faith that gravity was
going to work. (There is no proof of that other than experience).
The difference between "daily faith" which everyone has, including
everyone on the planet, and faith that makes a connection with God through
hanging your body on a promise from God's word. It is action, based upon
believe, sustained by action on those promises, that differentates
Christian faith from daily faith. Doc often spoke about how the Apostle
Paul lifted the word Pistis, which is a generic word of faith, and turned
it into a word that made connection with God.
In this context Doc's faith for healing makes sense. God promised to heal
and Doc hung his life on that. In the end, that he died is irrelevant as
God's will determines whether or not that faith will be actualized here or
over there.
Being a VOF, or coming to the cathedral was not equated with faith, other
than overcoming obstacles to getting down there due to Caltrans! Giving
was equated with faith as God is your or my supply and in giving you are
faithing that God would bless what remains to make it grow.
-g
Elmer Fudd
lying?....her lips are moving"
"Papillon" <papi...@emailprotected.zap> wrote in message
news:k48fn1l1h4vjm8gnk...@4ax.com...
PhilosopherGuy
Perhaps it is another example of being able to
quote Doc to further either side of an argument.
One needs to evaluate how he behaved, which policies he enforced and how
he ran his operations to see where his majority position lay.
What I was referring to regarding acts of faith
that directly or indirectly benefitted Gene Scott
were examples I observed, such as being with a
scottie at a special occasion when the scottie
gets a phone call that Doc needs them ASAP to
go somewhere or do something. The scottie departed, leaving dependents
with no vehicle and no food, not knowing when they would be back, and
knowing they couldn't take personal phone calls. The scottie explained
that dropping responsibilities and going was an act of faith. Another
time, the same scottie left a seriously ill bedridden relative overnight
to be at their post for Dr. Scott, claiming that was a faith act, begging
the question why wasn't seeing an ill relative through an illness and
faithing that the post would be taken care of, a faith act. Each time the
scottie was the only one to take care of their family, whereas there was a
list of people that could be called upon to further Doc's political and
business interests.
Another example would be scotties I have
known, who give up even half time employment
to volunteer nearly full time for Doc, claiming
God will provide, when the bills pile up and
others are burdened with the scottie's tasks.
Again, an act of faith is invoked. Taking
gainful employment to support oneself, and
faithing that church commitments could be
met, perhaps with some adjusting, was not
deemed an act of faith, but rather, selfish.
I have observed scotties criticize people who must work on Sundays (to
keep airports, hospitals, gas stations and stores open for everyone
including the Scotts) as shirking faith because they are not at the
cathedral or answering phones, in the prayer chain or
giving to a Pastor Scott. Praying for other cancer victims, giving to any
others in need
is dismissed or degraded as "the poor will always be with us" and
"another cause to
raise money for to say look at me."
Gospel_fan
conflicting things about being away on business, then back
early. Later she said she had gone to a workshop and
another church's services with live music, which made her
appreciate her congregation and musicians more.
If she hasn't flown in four years, she has been very sheltered.
She might discover more empathy and respect for others
if she got out in the real world more.
I thought that during his cancer, Doc said he had developed
a fear of flying. Not sure if that was private or commercial
or both. Mrs. Doc flew to Anguilla with him before. They
told about the storm on the way and claiming promises
that saved them.
gondar
We have been through this before. The fact that some stupid people did
stupid things (the examples that you illustrate above) does not detract
from the facts as presented.
I was as involved as anyone who posts here and yet when I got a call like
that and I was in a situation where I could not gracefully answer that
call, I simply told them so and that was the end of it. People like the
one that abandoned their family were stupid and Doc would have blasted
them for doing something like that. That was not faith but foolishness.
I know, as well as many here, that the staff sometimes did things like
that in calling people and exerting pressure that would cause an otherwise
sane person to do something stupid like that. However, that does not mean
in any way shape form or fashion that this was something that Dr. Scott
would condone or even allow if he had known about it. That was the whole
purpose of the pastor's reserve guard, to create a group of people that
would be able to do things without having to rely on any one person.
Stupid is as stupid does and that includes the examples above.
-g
andersons27
Can you explain to me, what exactly from their standpoint gets a person to
heaven? What must one do including all the particulars? Thank you.
andersons27
Emmett
gondar wrote:
> PG
>
> Why this completely wrong caricature:
>
> ********
>
> Her statements seem to depart from
> Doc's insistence that faith acts were
> only tithing, coming to the cathedral,
> serving as a VoF, only giving to him,
> Gene Scott. I have had this very
> argument with scotties, that faith
> acts abound in every town, church,
> school, store, airport and household
> around the world.
>
> *************
>
> Doc never said this or anything even approaching this.
Emmett writes:
Dr. jean would sit in his chair and contradict himself
constantly. Especially when he needed money or more workers.
You were going to hell if you didn't keep your commitments.
If he excommunicated you from his church you were going to hell.
That wasn't true according to some of his faith teachings.
He said so much BS at different times that he couldn't keep
track of it.
>
> There is a huge difference between the faith of daily life (Doc often
> talked about how getting out of bed was an act of faith that gravity was
> going to work. (There is no proof of that other than experience).
>
> The difference between "daily faith" which everyone has, including
> everyone on the planet, and faith that makes a connection with God through
> hanging your body on a promise from God's word. It is action, based upon
> believe, sustained by action on those promises, that differentates
> Christian faith from daily faith. Doc often spoke about how the Apostle
> Paul lifted the word Pistis, which is a generic word of faith, and turned
> it into a word that made connection with God.
>
> In this context Doc's faith for healing makes sense. God promised to heal
> and Doc hung his life on that. In the end, that he died is irrelevant as
> God's will determines whether or not that faith will be actualized here or
> over there.
Emmett writes:
You are making no sense here gondor. God promised to heal him and he
died. That would make God a liar just as Dr. jean said. Your not making
any more sense than Dr. jean did.
>
> Being a VOF, or coming to the cathedral was not equated with faith, other
> than overcoming obstacles to getting down there due to Caltrans! Giving
> was equated with faith as God is your or my supply and in giving you are
> faithing that God would bless what remains to make it grow.
>
Emmett writes:
Why did so many people go broke????
Not making sense again gondor.
gondar
I would suggest listening to the broadcasts for about a month and then ask
a question.
-g
Gospel_fan
That witch VOF coordinator would not take no from many, for an
answer. You must have been special or there a long time ago.
The caller often pressures "Can't somebody else watch your daughter,
or cover for you at work? C'mon do it for Dr. Scott or I'll have to
tell him you were too busy. C'mon where's your faith? Dr. Scott
needs you, I don't want to have to tell him you aren't coming."
Get real gondar.
damnthetorpedos
hasn't visited her relatives in Massachusettes,
Canada or Italy for a very long time. What an
obedient loving daughter and family member.
prettykitty
lines.....just keep watching.
rpbc
prettykitty
gondar
Cheryl never did that to anyone that I know of.
I think that her successor may be the one that you are talking about. Is
that so?
-g
Papillon
How'd your presentation at JUSTSAP go?
Jon Volkoff
> I would suggest listening to the broadcasts for about a month and
> then ask a question.
I can just see this scene in the Philippian jail:
Jailer: "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Paul and Silas: "Come and listen to our messages in the local
synagogue for about a month, and then ask a question."
You know something is wrong when that is the stock answer given.
JV
gondar
Really good. Got into a good tussle with a good Russian scientist friend
of mine.
This presentation will be published as part of the overall proceedings but
there was not any press here so it won't go live yet. I have a radio
interview with the spaceshow (www.thespaceshow.com). I will talk about it
some in that interview.
Do a Google on Reiner Gamma and you can see some of the things that I have
been talking about showing up in the blogosphere.
I have not had anyone say that it is absolutely not true and I have met
with at least three of the top tier of planetary scientists in the last
couple of weeks.
I will probably do a paper for AIAA on the subject next year that I can
widely distribute. I don't want to just toss the data out as it needs to
go through the peer review process or a lot of folks will reject it out of
hand.
Thanks for asking!!
-g
Papillon
I'm very intrigued. I'll try to catch the interview.
gondar
Jon
I guess my reply did not get posted. If Paul and Silas were preaching on
the other side of the cell and some person came to me and asked what were
they preaching about I would tell them to listen to them preach and figure
it out for yourself.
That is just simple common sense.
-g
gypsi...@gmail.com
(not doc)?
highwire
Gondar, Cheryl was probably the best vof coordinator, It was usually
can you help ? if no, ok. The others it was a constant guilt trip. I
can remember getting called 3-4 times a day for extra help. I was like
you, my no meant no. Like doc said shit falls down. The change over the
years to constant "acts of faith" for him broke down to a works
salvation. It carried over to all aspects of the church. Money,
tithing, thithing time, giving cars, etc were equated with proof of
salvation. The golden years of alabaster boxes were thrown into a trash
heap as jim mc posted before.
gypsi...@gmail.com
BTW, how is Cheryl doing re her cancer?
Papillon
wrote:
The alabaster boxes were literally tossed in the trash? Were they
composed entirely of objects of purely sentimental value or did a bit
of selective sorting take place first?
gondar
VOF coordinators, geez louise all it would take is a set of cajonies and
this would have been settled. I would not allow the successor to Cheryl
to treat me that way and She just quit calling. I had a history with her
and so she knew not to push it. What would have happened if EVERYONE that
she or any other VOF coordinator pushed a line of guilt to had said stuff
it? Doc would have heard, because no one would have been showing up and
then the problem would have been fixed.
Every single time that I was ever able to get to Doc with a problem it got
solved. The times that I was not able to get to him personally is when
things went wrong.
-g
gypsi...@gmail.com
not nearly as cocky or insensitive as this gondar. You and I both know
that things got alot worse as things went forward. And, people's
sensitive nature were definitely exploited by many. This was mostly
driven by the fear that doc would be displeased and they would have the
shit land on them, so they gave the shit on downhill to the lower in
the foodchain. Utimately it came down to "are you in or out". All or
nothing (this came from doc's mouth and now Mrs. doc's).
And, as far as Jim Mc. posting, I don't really think it is fair of you
to bring your personal attitude with him here as a test for his
honesty. Your personal stuff should be acknowledge as such and impune
to this NG. He is alright with me.
gondar
I don't like Jim Mc because he was in a position to raise his hand and rat
out a lot of the bad crap that was going on but did not. He stood beside
the worst offender of them all on many occasions and aided and abetted the
problem. This was long before you were around on staff g. He also broke
several of Doc's rules for core staffers and wormed his way into Pop
Scott's life and then attributed to Pop Scott things that there are
absolutely unverifiable and which worked to give him self justification
for his lack of courage and the way that he walked away. Furthermore he
spent a lot of time in this NG in a further stint of self justification.
No I don't like him.
As for the problems that happened post Cheryl, while I am sympathetic, we
as Christians, within any church, not just Doc's, have a responsibility to
speak up when things are wrong. I know Doc blowtorched people, including
me, for doing this but he always later made sure to say to keep doing it.
How is the chief shepard going to know if the subshepards are idiots
unless the sheep bleet about it! I really think that a lot of the
problems in the ministry could have been corrected had ALL of us, and I
put myself at the very top of that list, had been better at that.
Gypsie you remember a specific incident with the occupancy license on KH1
where we had to get to Doc and get him to fix that before we lost the
license and would have had to go through a lot of crap to get it back.
You and I had to push MW to make that happen but it did, only because we
pushed.
Dennis
rpbc
his hand and rat
out a lot of the bad crap that was going on but did not. He stood beside
the worst offender of them all on many occasions and aided and abetted
the
problem. This was long before you were around on staff g. He also broke
several of Doc's rules for core staffers and wormed his way into Pop
Scott's life and then attributed to Pop Scott things that there are
absolutely unverifiable and which worked to give him self justification
for his lack of courage and the way that he walked away. Furthermore he
spent a lot of time in this NG in a further stint of self
rpbc wrote: Dennis.... What things did Jim Mc attribute to Pop Scott that
are absolutely unverifiable? I want to know because the things Jim Mc had
to say concerning Pop Scott seemed credible to me, and in some cases,
verified through unsolicited conversations with others... sometimes a
different incident, but of the same type... and a few things I know first
hand. Plus, the public dressing down Gene Scott gave to his parents on a
number of occasions. My opinion of Jim Mc, direct as he has been on
occasion, is that he has been reserved in his discussions of behind the
scenes with Gene Scott.
gypsi...@gmail.com
scott post Cheryl were you? Sheep by definition are FOLLOWERS of a
shepherd. It is up to the shepherd to protect and care for them. doc
kept his focus on the things that mattered to him and the flock was not
one of them. He did not really care about them/us and this is the truth
and you know it.
So, explain to me how one of the sheep or even the flock would be able
to bleat loud enough to be heard. I know, I know doc always said tell
me, raise your hand, etc. to get his attention. doc had a very small
circle of people who could have any type of access to him, you know
this as well do I. Your firing is proof that you could not penetrate
it as often as you wanted to.
So for you to put the weight of responsibility on one or two people or
the flock is ludicrous. Any one of us could say, yes I could have done
more etc. but no one did.
Jon Volkoff
> I don't like Jim Mc because he was in a position to raise his hand
> and rat out a lot of the bad crap that was going on but did not. He
> stood beside the worst offender of them all on many occasions and
> aided and abetted the problem.
If you ask me, the worst offender of them all was Gene Scott himself.
-------
From: JMcCla...@Yahoo.com (Jim McClarty)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.gene-scott
Subject: Memories of Doc Pt. One - Shooting dead birds
Date: 1 Feb 2003 10:10:32 -0800
Message-ID: <9a2735b2.03020...@posting.google.com>
From: JMcCla...@Yahoo.com (Jim McClarty)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.gene-scott
Subject: Memories of Doc Pt. Two - Fake Bible Throwing
Date: 2 Feb 2003 19:04:12 -0800
Message-ID: <9a2735b2.03020...@posting.google.com>
gypsi...@gmail.com
himself.
gypsie: Absolutely, it cannot be any other way.
gypsi...@gmail.com
deliberately. Then he could say "no one told me" or "he did not know".
doc CHOSE not to know. There was no excuse for any of it and no one
else was ultimately responsible..... except the man in charge, doc!
gondar
was there, that only one or two people could have made the difference. I
specifically said in a previous post that if all of us who felt the guilt
trip had spoken up then the problem could have been addressed. Yes, and
you are right, I was not that clued in post Cheryl because the one and
only time that first post Cheryl person called me and I turned her down,
she never called again. I should have done something about that and did
not. Gypsie I always put myself at the very top of the list, and I mean
that, in terms of I should have done more to rat out the problems. When
Doc brought me back in 97 he specifically asked me to do that very thing
and I did not do the job that I should have or maybe things would have
been a little different there.
-g
gypsi...@gmail.com
ludicrous......... even on you!
I remember how is was then and you did do your job as best you could,
just as all of us did in an impossible situation. I carried this weight
on my shoulders for quite a while too and finally came to realize that
there was nothing I could do as long as nothing changed from the top.
Happy Thanksgiving and Peace,
g
rpbc
again with Gene Scott? How would you have gone about ratting out those
problems? What would you have done that would have altered the situation?
I'm sincerely curious.