Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

[Loruhamah]

I ran across this lecture about hell and found it to be interesting.
Basically, this guy says hell is not eternal punishment, and that if
one is sent there, they just do not exist any longer. Does anyone
know any scripture that is contrary to those presented here? He makes
a lot of sense but it isn't the concept of hell that I've been taught
all my life. However, I am open minded and willing to learn something
new if it fits with the Bible.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RestoredCOG?v=ah6eu01q8Ng&feature=pyv

[geraldkrug]

Always wars and rumors of wars also means you can't speak the truth
while fighting a war so that means no truth ever is spoken.

GOT IT?

[geraldkrug]

If you have no creativity then you go to hell for sure cause God ain't
amused by you...

coo coo bords - robomusic2

http://www.zshare.net/audio/9897662273e0caa1/

[Weatherman]

WM-Packman said the supposed proof texts would be covered in the book
you had to order. Red Flag there (plus then they will have your
address and can send your already weakend heart pics of third world
children starving and yet never giving an explanation of why the same
god that wouldnt torment you in hell will torment some on earth.) The
truth is his presentation would not sound so pat if he had to expose
it to these "proof texts" in the open.

[matt2442]

On Feb 1, 6:35 pm, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Matt2442:
I'll listen when I have time but I believe the doctrine is called
nihilism. As far as I can tell it is not scriptural.

[geraldkrug]

But speaking for references sake burn could mean learn
burn could mean telecommunicate burn is a song...

[matt2442]

> Matt2442:
> I'll listen when I have time but I believe the doctrine is called
> nihilism. As far as I can tell it is not scriptural.

Matt2442:
I just looked up "nihilism" and that is not the correct term for the
doctrine. I'll have to try and find it.

[Weatherman]

On Feb 2, 10:11 pm, geraldkrug <gd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> But speaking for references sake burn could mean learn
> burn could mean telecommunicate burn is a song...

WM-Christ talks about torment and tormentors several times......cant
be tormented by torments and tormentors if your out cold. This jackass
talks about the word "dead" as if its lights out but Christ and Paul
talked about the living dead. Besides this guy jerks around and moves
like he has ants in his paints or something....moves, talks and acts
like a nut. The saying "full of bullshit" comes to mind when I watch
him.

There is a passage of scripture, one of the prophets says of lucy when
he is brought down into the pit the great dead will rise up to greet
him. Sounds like living dead dead people if you ask me.

[babyshoes]

yes, sounds like the seventh day Adventists..believing in the sleep
till judgment..
or (the rest of God..) that he won't let certain souls enter..

The information that they base all this on is scripture found in old
scrolls..like Enoch..
but theses same scrolls speak of hell fire of sorts..

I believe in extremes, as far as heaven and hell goes..like extreme
hot and cold weather..exists..

a part of heaven is judged to in the end , probably the first three
levels of it ..scrolled up..
and there is a new one after that..
in the mean time..what happens to all the immortal souls after
death..when their born again into this immortality..
do most find the same horror..that a new born rooster finds when their
born on a chicken farm..a few moments to behold life and then their
thrown into a bucket to die...

there is a fight for souls..does Jesus want to see souls tormented in
eternal life, not as much as Satan and his legion want God to see how
many Souls are lost to him..by freewill and ignorant/innocence..
Jesus emptied hell once and took souls out..he is coming again..until
then..some will live.. rest.. and fry..

Some think heaven and hell are vain imaginings..from hells fire , to
heavens gold thrones and precious stones..

and then there is paradise..a reflection of the natural earth..a
reflection of life..
not as appealing to some..

I think Heaven and Hell are gas..evil vapor..locked up in pockets
beneath the earth..a form of c02 created by magma and the fire that
magma produces..run by the race of nephilim that was rejected by god,
seething hateful rejected souls..



and your own invisible vapor (c02) puts you in these places.. heaven..
hell and rest..
your own words..your own breath..your song.. every bit of c02 you
exhale..moves..goes..flows..

and is pushed forth from your heart (if you even feel that anymore)
2 chambers of the heart, one is for oxygen, the other for c02
(carbon dioxide) don't worry about breathing in, worry about breathing
out and what you do with this breath...
what you speak..say..sing..curse..bless..and watch the hate..and the
temptation to hate..

Like Jesus said (who taught us how to escape the fires..) with his
sermons..bless, don't curse..

(I'm not talking about righteous indignation) even Mikael when
fighting over the body of Satan..didn't engage with him but said (the
lord rebuke thee)



ah..yes c02 mixed with inferred..a whole invisible world..in the
dimension of gas..
**********
I read recently that they found c02 alone..coming out from under the
sea floor..
they had always thought that.. c02 was limited to the sky and ocean
surface.

[Weatherman]

> surface.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

WM-I wonder if what Amos said was a curse when he told the high priest
at Bethel that his wife would be a whore, his kids all dead and he
would be carted off to some god forsaken place? Anyway Jesus did say
some would get a greater damnation and so great a damnation. There
cant be levels of damnation if its lights out for everyone that goes
south in the end. Then theres the line about weeping and nashing of
teeth when they see Abraham, Issac and Jacob enter into the kingdom of
God and they are pushed out.


Thats whats going to happen to many that took roots in the vineyard
and got to thinking it was theirs.

[matt2442]

> WM-Christ talks about torment and tormentors several times......cant
> be tormented by torments and tormentors if your out cold.

Matt2442:
Exactly.

[Loruhamah]

I appreciate the feedback! I know someone that's a JW, and the
subject of hell came up once. Their explanation to me was, "after you
die, you are a spirit, so how can a spirit feel pain?" For lack of
anything to say, I said, "the same as those that go to paradise
experience pleasure?". lol

[geraldkrug]

God has more options and you'll never be there so flatter yourselves
why don't you, SICK !

[babyshoes]

On Feb 1, 6:35 pm, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:

This guy blames the poets for elaborating on hell...lol..
they do..and they don't..

excerpt from poem


Lo, the poor Indian! whose untutor'd mind
Sees God in clouds, or hears him in the wind;
His soul, proud science never taught to stray
Far as the solar walk, or milky way;
Yet simple nature to his hope has giv'n,
Behind the cloud-topt hill, an humbler heav'n;
Some safer world in depth of woods embrac'd,
Some happier island in the wat'ry waste,
Where slaves once more their native land behold,
No fiends torment, no Christians thirst for gold.
To Be, contents his natural desire,
He asks no angel's wing, no seraph's fire;
But thinks admitted to that equal sky,
His faithful dog shall bear him company.

[rpbc]

rbpc:
No hell.... heaven either... an atheist dream/hope, especially the
hell part. Evil ones pray there is no hell.... ironically that is
what they do whether recognized or not. For heaven it's somewhat
passive like statements about good weather for saturday night baseball
but hell.... no hell invokes prayer among the godless. Not talking
about JW's..... they, as religious thinking will do, have reasoned out
a religious position.

[Emmett]

On Feb 1, 6:35 pm, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Emmett writes:

HELL

The place of eternal punishment for the unrighteous. The NKJV and KJV
use this word to translate Sheol and Hades, the Old and New Testament
words, respectively, for the abode of the dead.
Hell as a place of punishment translates Gehenna, the Greek form of
the Hebrew word that means "the vale of Hinnom"-- a valley just south
of Jerusalem. In this valley the Canaanites worshiped Baal and the
fire-god Molech by sacrificing their children in a fire that burned
continuously. Even Ahaz and Manasseh, kings of Judah, were guilty of
this terrible, idolatrous practice <2 Chr. 28:3; 33:6>.
The prophet Jeremiah predicted that God would visit such destruction
upon Jerusalem that this valley would be known as the "Valley of
Slaughter" <Jer. 7:31-34; 19:2,6>. In his religious reforms, King
Josiah put an end to this worship. He defiled the valley in order to
make it unfit even for pagan worship <2 Kin. 23:10>.
In the time of Jesus the Valley of Hinnom was used as the garbage
dump of Jerusalem. Into it were thrown all the filth and garbage of
the city, including the dead bodies of animals and executed criminals.
To consume all this, fires burned constantly. Maggots worked in the
filth. When the wind blew from that direction over the city, its
awfulness was quite evident. At night wild dogs howled and gnashed
their teeth as they fought over the garbage.
Jesus used this awful scene as a symbol of hell. In effect he said,
"Do you want to know what hell is like? Look at the valley of
Gehenna." So hell may be described as God's "cosmic garbage dump." All
that is unfit for heaven will be thrown into hell.
The word Gehenna occurs 12 times in the New Testament. Each time it
is translated as "hell." With the exception of <James 3:6>, it is used
only by Jesus <Matt. 5:22,29-30; 10:28; 23:15,33; Mark 9:43, 45,47;
Luke 12:5>. In <Matthew 5:22; 18:9>; and <Mark 9:47>, it is used with
"fire" as "hell fire." So the word hell (Gehenna) as a place of
punishment is used in the New Testament by Him who is the essence of
infinite love.
In <Mark 9:46> and <48>, hell is described as a place where "their
worm does not die and the fire is not quenched." Repeatedly Jesus
spoke of outer darkness and a furnace of fire, where there will be
wailing, weeping, and gnashing of teeth <Matt. 8:12; 13:42,50; 22:13;
24:51; 25:30; Luke 13:28>. Obviously this picture is drawn from the
valley of Gehenna
The Book of Revelation describes hell as "a lake of fire burning with
brimstone" <Rev. 19:20; 20:10, 14-15; 21:8>. Into hell will be thrown
the beast and the false prophet <Rev. 19:20>. At the end of the age
the devil himself will be thrown into it, along with death and hades
and all whose names are not in the Book of Life. "And they will be
tormented day and night forever and ever" <Rev. 20:10b>.
Because of the symbolic nature of the language, some people question
whether hell consists of actual fire. Such reasoning should bring no
comfort to the lost. The reality is greater than the symbol. The Bible
exhausts human language in describing heaven and hell. The former is
more glorious, and the latter more terrible, than language can
express.
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary)
(Copyright (C) 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

[geraldkrug]

Why you all ain't got balls...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwwGp9BDLds&feature=related

Superwoman

[geraldkrug]

I love it, she says 2:50 now share this video so we can all be in
McDonalds play place and have more balls.

[babyshoes]

On Feb 3, 10:01 am, babyshoes <mthrb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> surface.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Jonah 2:6 To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath
barred me in forever. But you brought my life up from the pit, O LORD
my God.

Job 33:28 He redeemed my soul from going down to the pit, and I will
live to enjoy the light.'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ezekiel 26:20 then I will bring you down with those who go down to the
pit, to the people of long ago. I will make you dwell in the earth
below, as in ancient ruins, with those who go down to the pit, and you
will not return or take your place in the land of the living.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isaiah 38:17 Surely it was for my benefit that I suffered such
anguish. In your love you kept me from the pit of destruction; you
have put all my sins behind your back

Jesus Saves

[Weatherman]

WM-oh great find there. And consider the great preperations made by
cultures big and small when makig ready the tombs. Food, weapons ect
for the trip into the after life. Servants and slaves for attending,
dogs and cats, pets and lucky charms.

[Ronny TX]

Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 1, 2012, 6:35pm (CST-2) From:
hurric...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)

Loruhamah:
Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?


Ronny to Loruhamah:
No,there isn't. There is no such thing or place,as a hell of
fiery,eternal torment.


Loruhamah:

Ronny to Loruhamah:
I wish I could see that;but can't. As I'm online presently,through a
WebTV unit and not a computer. But what you describe,certainly sounds
like the doctrine of annihilation,as taught by some churchs/
denominations. They say,that at the last, God will simply burn up some
people,to smoke and ashes and they will be no more. Well,I no more agree
with those people on this,than I agree with the people who believe and
teach,in a hell of fiery,eternal torment.

But then,I was brought up in a church/ denomination,where I was taught
to believe in a hell of fiery,eternal torment. I was taught to believe
this,by some people,some church elders;but not by God. As to how I more
believe,on these things now? You can find that,on the following
webpages. But the basics are, that before all is said and done,God/Jesus
Christ,will save everyone,that by way of Jesus Christ and the cross and
there is no hell,of fiery,eternal torment.


http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/
http://tentmaker.org/
http://lovewins.us/


"The next day,John saw Jesus coming unto him and said,Behold the Lamb of
God,who takes away the sin of the world." John 1:29


"And I,if I (Jesus Christ) be lifted up from the earth,will draw (drag)
all men unto me. This he said,signifying what death he should die." John
12:32,33


"And we have seen and do testify,that the Father sent the Son,to be the
Saviour of the world." 1 John 4:14

[studio]

On Feb 5, 1:47 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 1, 2012, 6:35pm (CST-2) From:

> hurricane...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)

> http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/http://tentmaker.org/http://lovewins.us/

>
> "The next day,John saw Jesus coming unto him and said,Behold the Lamb of
> God,who takes away the sin of the world." John 1:29
>
> "And I,if I (Jesus Christ) be lifted up from the earth,will draw (drag)
> all men unto me. This he said,signifying what death he should die." John
> 12:32,33
>
> "And we have seen and do testify,that the Father sent the Son,to be the
> Saviour of the world." 1 John 4:14

.
studio:
Oh brother......I hope this ain't gypsie's first convert to afgs!
lol.

[babyshoes]

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----

> Ezekiel 26:20 then I will bring you down with those who go down to the
> pit, to the people of long ago. I will make you dwell in the earth
> below, as in ancient ruins, with those who go down to the pit, and you
> will not return or take your place in the land of the living.
>

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----

> Isaiah 38:17 Surely it was for my benefit that I suffered such
> anguish. In your love you kept me from the pit of destruction; you
> have put all my sins behind your back
>

> Jesus Saves- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

your head is north
your feet are south
your right side is ______
and your left side is ____

shut up Obama..don't let the left hand no what the right hand is
doing...

[Daniel]

On Feb 1, 6:35 pm, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:

That is from Herbert W Armstrongs Church

[Ronny TX]

Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 1, 2012, 6:35pm (CST-2) From:

hurric...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)

Ronny to Loruhamah:
Here's another good webpage,concerning what I posted about to
you,earlier.

http://www.savior-of-all.com/

[studio]

On Feb 5, 1:47 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:

> Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 1, 2012, 6:35pm (CST-2) From:

> hurricane...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)

> http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/http://tentmaker.org/http://lovewins.us/

>
> "The next day,John saw Jesus coming unto him and said,Behold the Lamb of
> God,who takes away the sin of the world." John 1:29
>
> "And I,if I (Jesus Christ) be lifted up from the earth,will draw (drag)
> all men unto me. This he said,signifying what death he should die." John
> 12:32,33
>
> "And we have seen and do testify,that the Father sent the Son,to be the
> Saviour of the world." 1 John 4:14

Wow, three irrelevant scriptures.....got any more of those up yer
sleeve?

Hey Ronny, how the heck did you arrive here? Cuz man, this is surely
the place for a guy (girl) like you! Crazy doctrines not
withstanding,
You're in!

[Loruhamah]

On Feb 5, 8:06 pm, Daniel <dano2...@netzero.net> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 6:35 pm, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> That is from Herbert W Armstrongs Church

You are right. I ran across that in a series of lectures about hell
during my reasearch on the subject. This link is to a broadcast by (a
very young) John Ankerberg, and the subject concerns the everlasting
torment of hell. His guest is Walter Martin (http://
www.waltermartin.com/radio.html), who takes the approach that there is
no Hebrew or Greek word that translates for "annihillate". This idea
is also in line with the first law of thermodynamics which states that
energy can change from one form to another, but it cannot be
destroyed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT4AqFaUDnY&feature=related

John Ankerberg is currently running a series of shows about the
Mormons. His guests include Sandra Tanner, the great-great
granddaughter of Brigham Young, second prophet of the Mormon Church,
who left the Mormon faith and became a follower of Christ. Talk about
a warped cult religion there! All cults have one thing in common.
They enslave their followers by enforcing burdens of servitude, and
they never know for certain that they will go to heaven, even if they
completely submerse themselves into its doctrines. I can't see why a
JW would even follow a religion where "first prize" has already be
awarded. Like Muslims, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses were founded
by someone who supposedly met an angel who told them that Christianity
was false, and was given insight to a "more-better" religion. The
following scripture sums it up.

(Galatians 1:8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let
him be accursed.

[rpbc]

On Feb 6, 11:32 am, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 8:06 pm, Daniel <dano2...@netzero.net> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 1, 6:35 pm, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > That is from Herbert W Armstrongs Church
>
> You are right.  I ran across that in a series of lectures about hell
> during my reasearch on the subject.  This link is to a broadcast by (a
> very young) John Ankerberg, and the subject concerns the everlasting

> torment of hell.  His guest is Walter Martin (http://www.waltermartin.com/radio.html), who takes the approach that there is

> no Hebrew or Greek word that translates for "annihillate".  This idea
> is also in line with the first law of thermodynamics which states that
> energy can change from one form to another, but it cannot be
> destroyed.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT4AqFaUDnY&feature=related
>
> John Ankerberg is currently running a series of shows about the
> Mormons.  His guests include Sandra Tanner, the great-great
> granddaughter of Brigham Young, second prophet of the Mormon Church,
> who left the Mormon faith and became a follower of Christ.  Talk about
> a warped cult religion there!  All cults have one thing in common.
> They enslave their followers by enforcing burdens of servitude, and
> they never know for certain that they will go to heaven, even if they
> completely submerse themselves into its doctrines.  I can't see why a
> JW would even follow a religion where "first prize" has already be
> awarded.  Like Muslims, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses were founded
> by someone who supposedly met an angel who told them that Christianity
> was false, and was given insight to a "more-better" religion.  The
> following scripture sums it up.
>
> (Galatians 1:8)  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
> other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let
> him be accursed.

rpbc:
Personally I find all this 'stuff' a diversion from real events one
might consider among the dots that make up the matrix displaying the
picture of the world to come in the not too distant future. Here's
one that is in a sense very mainstream according to it's relevance but
is given no connective attention. Read it carefully and consider the
players involved... especially ones like Hillary, half the women and
many of the men in this country would have her as alternative to
Obama... and I'm not talking politics... I'm speaking of, as I was
describing the process Scott used, of hypnosis. Friends, Romans,
Countrymen.... we've been hypnotized.... how else this..... and more,
for where there was a stream of activity there is now a current. Any
of you have children... grandchildren... what kind of change do you
see for them in the land of their birth against this treachery,
sedition. If Jesus doesn't come, if these are not the end times...
expect for them war, real war, for this time within the short history
of America the enemy is stratified thoughtout within the gates.
Islam... and so called left ideology, secular religionists, calling
themselves progressives announcing enough is enough.... and those half
informed in the middle feeling comfortable with parts of each... are
enabling, abetting this horror that is sure to follow.


------------------------------------------

Brooke Goldstein Speaking at the Philadelphia Chapter of the Freedom
Center, Thursday, Feb. 2
Posted By Frontpagemag.com On February 1, 2012
Editor’s note: Brooke Goldstein is coming to speak at the Philadelphia
Chapter of the Freedom Center tomorrow, Thursday, Feb. 2. To mark this
occasion, Frontpage is rerunning below Jacob Laksin’s interview with
Ms. Goldstein that ran in our Jan 26th issue.
*
FrontPage Interview’s guest today is Brooke Goldstein, a New York City-
based human rights attorney, author and award-winning filmmaker. She
serves as director of The Lawfare Project, a nonprofit organization
dedicated to raising awareness about and facilitating a response to
the abuse of Western legal systems and human rights law. Her award-
winning documentary film, The Making of a Martyr, uncovers the
illegal, state-sponsored indoctrination and recruitment of Palestinian
children for suicide-homicide attacks. To view the trailer, click
here. Goldstein is the co-author, with Aaron Eitan Meyer, of the
recently published Lawfare: The War Against Free Speech: A First
Amendment Guide for Reporting in an Age of Islamist Lawfare.

FP: You run an organization that focuses on it and you’ve recently
written a book about it, but for the benefit of the uninitiated
reader, what is “lawfare” and what is it designed to accomplish?
BG: Lawfare is the use of the law as a weapon of war. More
specifically, it is the manipulation of international human-rights
law, the laws of armed conflict and legal terminology leading to their
misapplication. Lawfare has basically three strategic goals. First, to
frustrate and hinder the ability of democracies to fight terrorism.
Second, to undermine the rights of sovereign nations, including the
rights to defend their citizens against imminent threats and exert
sovereign control over their territory. And third, to punish and
silence free speech about real national-security threats such as
militant Islam, Islamist terrorism and terror financing.
FP: How does lawfare help to stifle free speech about the threats we
face? And how did you become engaged in this subject?
BG: I’m a Canadian by birth but I moved to this country because I
wanted to practice law and have a tremendous respect for the American
Constitution. In the United States people enjoy more rights then ever
recognized by a governing authority in the history of civilization.
Yet there are many Americans who do not know what their rights are
under the First Amendment and who don’t understand the implications of
its guarantor of free speech. For instance, I get calls and emails
from people who don’t know that blasphemy is not a crime in this
country, or that free speech encompasses the right to speak and write
truthfully about religion. I’ve gotten into discussions with bloggers
who thought that hate speech was a crime in this country, which it’s
not. American citizens have a right to speak freely and critically
about their government and about religion. That principle is the
cornerstone of liberal democracy and what the founding fathers based
the First Amendment on.
You don’t have to be a lawyer to understand these rights and people
who did not receive a legal education still want to be active
citizens. They want to write a blog or an article about, say, their
local Muslim Brotherhood-connected chapter or about the Council of
American Islamic Relations (CAIR) or about the National Iranian
American Council (NIAC). But they’re afraid they’re going to be
targeted with a lawsuit strategically designed to silence their
speech. And lawsuits, as we know, are expensive.
I co-wrote Lawfare to encourage journalists, bloggers, members of the
media and American citizens at large to exercise their rights and
speak freely about the most important issues of our time. The goal of
the book is to arm American citizens should they fall victim to such
“libel lawfare.” To counter the “chilling effect” on free speech about
militant Islam. The book serves as a very accessible primer on the
First Amendment and as an overview of U.S. libel law versus foreign
libel law. It provides case examples of the brave men and women who
have been targeted with malicious lawsuits for publishing works
exposing the financiers of terrorism and even for parodying religion
(like the Danish cartoons of Mohammad.) There is no place in a free
society for such stifling of public dialogue, especially when the
speech is related to national security issues. I was not prepared to
stand by while groups like the Organization of the Islamic Cooperation
(OIC) lobby the U.N. and the U.S. for the resurgence of blasphemy
laws. I recommend the book to anyone who may be remotely in lawfare’s
harms way or who wants to maintain our precious standards of freedom.
FP: Let’s say I am an independent writer who wants to publish
something about Islamic radicalism. What I should I do to protect
myself from these lawsuits?
BG: Number one, get yourself media liability insurance. Everyone who
publishes should have media liability insurance, regardless of the
fact that what you may write about is true. The whole point of lawfare
is to file a frivolous lawsuit, so that even if you win, in the end
you still lose time and money spent defending your rights. Media
insurance can cost you around $1,500 a year, depending on your risk-
liability, but it’s super-important and an expense well-spent. Number
two, always have a second pair of eyes, preferably an attorney, read
over your article with the goal of spotting any potentially libelous
statements. And always cache websites. Often people put up information
that can be used against them on the web and when they realize that
they take it down. If you rely on internet articles you need to cache
the articles in case those pages are taken down. If you have any
concerns, you should call us at The Lawfare Project. We operate as a
non-profit and one of our activities is to hook people up with legal
counsel if they need it. We also perform libel review, though we
always recommend that people get an attorney to represent them, as we
are not a law firm, nor do we take on clients. And finally, you should
read our book. It provides really simple examples of people who have
been sued in the past, how they won, and what you need to do to
protect your rights.
FP: What is the state of free speech in this country as it concerns
discussion of Islam and Islamism?
BG: I think this country affords the greatest free speech protections
that have ever been afforded in organized civilization. But there have
been a couple developments that are very troubling and that point to
the stifling of healthy dialogue and debate. The first thing is the
chilling effect created by the libel lawfare suits. We have witnessed
situations where Yale University Press publishes a book called
Cartoons That Shook the World about the Mohammed cartoons, and yet
doesn’t publish the cartoons at issue. I think it’s a problem when
Comedy Central allows the creators of South Park to defame every
religion except for Islam. It’s a problem when you have Random House
refusing to publish a fiction novel – The Jewell of Medina by author
Sherry Jones – because it is afraid that publishing any fiction about
Mohammed’s child bride Aisha will be denounced as “Islamophobic.”
The other major challenge to free speech comes from the Obama
administration. The administration has co-sponsored UN Resolution
16/18, which follows a series of resolutions spearheaded by the OIC,
the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, aiming to outlaw the
blasphemy of religion in international law. The OIC is 57-member
voting block at the UN that has hijacked the General Assembly and the
Human Rights Council. That resolution is now being implemented by
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. They are wiping out all references
to Islam and Islamic terrorism in counterterrorism training manuals.
They’ve created a blacklist of seasoned FBI officials, some of whom
have been there for over ten years, who are no longer allowed to brief
on Islamist terrorism the very men and women tasked with protecting us
from Islamist terrorism. The Department of Defense’s report on the
Fort Hood shootings omitted the word Islam and made no mention of the
killer, Nidal Malik Hasan’s, well documented jihadist sympathies such
as his speech on suicide bombing and an essay arguing for the painful
punishment and liquidation of non-Muslims. So now we are not just
stifling public debate but we’re stifling the ability of people in our
national security apparatuses to protect us. It’s a serious problem.
That said, I’m much more worried about the status of free speech in
Europe and in Canada. In the Netherlands they put Geert Wilders, a
democratically elected official, on trial for hate speech against
Muslims because he spoke to his constituents about the threat of
Islamist terrorism. Just recently, an Austrian citizen, Elisabeth
Sabaditsch-Wolff, was fined for the crime of blasphemy against Islam,
in Austria! The Canadian Human Rights Commission (CHRC) has gone after
the author Mark Steyn and the television personality Ezra Levant for
writing a book on Muslim demographics and republishing cartoons of
Mohammad, respectively. Even though neither of the CHRC’s quasi-legal
proceedings have been successful, they send a message that there are
legal loopholes that can be taken advantage of by people who don’t
want us to talk about Islam. And if we can’t talk about and understand
Islamist terrorism, how can we defeat it?
FP: While the proponents of lawfare don’t want to talk about Islam and
Islamic terrorism, they do want to talk about Israel. For instance,
American college campuses now routinely host so-called BDS conferences
that target “boycotts, divestment and sanctions” against Israel and
that seek to demonize Israel as an “apartheid” state. You yourself
will be speaking out in opposition to these movements at the David
Horowitz Freedom Center in Philadelphia. What will you be talking
about?
BG: First I want to express my thanks to the David Horowitz Center for
inviting me and for giving people a platform to speak the truth on
campuses. I’ll be talking about the true gender and sexual apartheid
that is happening in the Islamist world and about the massive human
rights violations occurring against innocent Muslim women and children
that are being ignored by the hypocritical BDS movement and by the
human rights, political and legal community.
FP: What do you think these movements are trying to accomplish?
BG: What they’re trying to accomplish is to take legal terms like
apartheid, genocide, terrorism – each of which have very specific
meanings and applications (which can be looked up in a dictionary)–
and misinterpret and misapply them to sow confusion in the general
public. In that way, they want to make it harder for us to distinguish
between the real human-rights violators and those who, like Israel,
are working to protect the human rights of their citizens. They want
to blur the distinction between terrorists that target and hide behind
civilians, and those that fight to protect civilians. They want to
reinvent the laws of armed conflict so as to deny democracies the
rights to defend themselves and exert sovereign control over their
territory. In short, they want to compliment terrorism and asymetric
warfare with flawed, politicized and quasi-legal arguments under the
guise of “human rights” rhetoric.
If they were really interested in human rights, they would highlight
the real perpetrators of injustice in the Middle East. They would work
to expose the real obstacle to peace: the illegal, state-sponsored
indoctrination and recruitment of innocent Muslim children to hate and
violence.
The only way for there to be peace in the Middle East, and peace in
the world, is if the Islamists stop teaching their children to aspire
to violent jihad while killing themselves. No peace agreements or
handshakes or territory swaps or boycotts or books by former
presidents on Apartheid are going to bring tranquility when millions
of Muslim children are being taught through their schools, textbooks,
by their radio, television and print media, by their religious clerics
and political leaders to commit violent homicide-suicide in the name
of religion. By turning a blind eye to these crimes, the BDS and anti-
Israel “Apartheid” movements send the green light to terrorists that
they can continue killing Muslim children with impunity, because they
don’t care. That, they say, is not their focus. They are too
preoccupied with their own rewriting of human rights law and the laws
of armed conflict, and how they can apply it to Israel to give legal
patina to their claims.
FP: Many of these groups claim that schools should host their anti-
Israel conferences and “Israel apartheid” events in the interest of
academic freedom. What do you make of that argument?
BG: It doesn’t make any sense. That’s like saying, “Lets call the sky
purple in the interest of academic freedom.” Just because you say
academic freedom doesn’t mean you should say something that is
illogical and irrational. It puts a stain on academia when our
professors are propagating notions that make no sense. As I said
earlier, you can look up the term apartheid in the dictionary and its
simple and clear that no apartheid is going on in Israel.
Palestinians, Christians and Arabs enjoy equal rights, equal
protection, they serve in the government, one could go on and on.
Black Student organizations in this country recently ran a powerful ad
in campus newspapers demanding that these groups stop referring to
Israel as an apartheid state because it denigrates the actual history
of apartheid in South Africa. Even President Jimmy Carter, who
published a book referring to Israel as an “apartheid” state, has
recanted that accusation.
FP: What do you think of the self-styled pro-Palestinian groups who
stage these conferences?
BG: They call themselves pro-Palestinian but they’re really anti-
Palestinian groups. That’s because they’re not focusing on who the
real human-rights violators are against the Palestinian people.
They’re diverting attention away from the fact that the Palestinian
Authority airs cartoons and music videos that teach children to kill
themselves as suicide-homicide bombers. They’re diverting attention
from the fact that UNWRA, the United Nations Relief and Work Agency,
is aiding and abetting the murder of Palestinian children by teaching
from hate-filled textbooks and by hiring off the Hamas payroll.
They’re diverting attention away from the fact that Hamas is engaged
in the systematic murder of anyone they deem un-Islamic, that it
violates women’s and children’s rights, and that it targets civilians,
including Palestinians, for assassinations and executions. If you
describe your movement as pro-Palestinian yet you use it to
purposefully divert attention away from these obvious human-rights
abuses, and refuse to address them in context, then you are exposing
your movement for what it is, anti-human rights, and anti-Palestinian.
FP: You’ve noted that these assaults on Israel, whether they come from
Palestinian campus groups or from international organizations like the
UN or from terrorist groups like Hamas, have important implications
for American security as well. How so?
BG: Any attack on the legitimacy of Israel’s right to self defense,
whether it be violent or non-violent, has shared implications for all
other democracies. For example, when the International Court of
Justice declares Israel’s border fence a “crime against humanity”
while pointedly ignoring the fact that the fence contributed to a
sharp decline in the loss of human lives, and refusing to hear
testimony from the victims of terror, what kind of precedent is that
going to set for the United States when it wants to build a border
fence with Mexico? If Israeli officials are being charged with war
crimes for fighting terrorists – the same terrorists our soldiers are
fighting against in Iraq and Afghanistan and who use the same tactics
– what are the legal implications for coalition forces? People are
going after Israel because it’s the easy target. Its the legal testing
ground for lawfare actions aimed at rewriting the laws of armed
conflict to benefit terrorists. They are setting precedents in
national and international law so that they can be used against
American and against coalition forces. It would be a shame to dismiss
something like the Goldstone Report, which is a highly politicized and
flawed legal document that attempts to take away the right of a nation
to defend itself against its citizens, as only a threat to Israel.
Those same legal principles can be used against any other nation
fighting terrorism. That’s the point of lawfare and that’s how legal
precedents work.
FP: How can those who share your goals and your opposition to lawfare
get involved with your work?
BG: We have a wonderful internship and student fellowship program. It
gives students an opportunity to get out of the rubric of a law
school’s ruminations on what human-rights law is and should be, and to
work on real-life case examples. We’re currently accepting
applications for our summer internship program. We also have an
academic fellowship program and a professional fellowship program, in
which you can engage in research, writing and advocacy related to
human rights law and counter-lawfare. Those interested can contact me
at Bro...@thelawfareproject.org.

[philedelphia]

On Feb 5, 11:47 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 1, 2012, 6:35pm (CST-2) From:

> hurricane...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)

> http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/http://tentmaker.org/http://lovewins.us/

>
> "The next day,John saw Jesus coming unto him and said,Behold the Lamb of
> God,who takes away the sin of the world." John 1:29
>
> "And I,if I (Jesus Christ) be lifted up from the earth,will draw (drag)
> all men unto me. This he said,signifying what death he should die." John
> 12:32,33
>
> "And we have seen and do testify,that the Father sent the Son,to be the
> Saviour of the world." 1 John 4:14

kro
hello ronny,
hell is reserved for blasphemy

no interpretation of scripture is a private interpretation.

all of these scriptures you reference are part of a larger scope of
prophecy related to the testimomy of jesus (johns gospel) into the
revelation of jesus "Christ"

in the last days the complete revelation of jesus christ will be made
manifest and occurances will validate the consumation of the
ages....at this time when the truth is completely realised will be
those that are cowards and wont sacrifice themeselves for the truth
and frauds those that sell out for here and now and bow down to false
gods literaly... the watchers behind the scenes of the illuminati
politics religion and nation/world/reality building thats taking place
at the hands of the elites in all facets of our society...

in our lives befor the end of days to commit the sin of the spirit is
to be aware of a hidden agenda by bad guys and still go along with
it..

we will all know the truth of god his righteousness and his divine
retribution and punishing judgements when its time and face a cross
road that may lead to hell if the hearer wont understand...

in the mean time we take away from the truth in ignorence and god
forgives it though the opccassion for a permanent fix draws nigh..
be happy love one another i made you all clean,,,at least to this
degree...

[philedelphia]

> >http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/http://tentmaker.org/http://lovewins...

> degree...- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

kro
what i suggest is that is that you watch for a babtism of revelation
to take place befor and during the trib tribgreat.. a puring out of
discover in gods word..actualy a whole hidden book we have only
glimpsed and mistakenly used as a tool for grander (vain) theological
endeavors over the ages.. the paralleling of gods word i.e. the
"concordance" has been held back and givin latent function in
eschatology rather than its inherent primary function..

john the babtist revelator that has tarried aka the "testimony of
jesus" was givin a little book to eat "digest" to internalize and
understand and communicate with his very "being" to a last days
generation. a babtism of words for a last days generation....

church proper or pockets of it or the serfs beleivers that have gone
ronin having been quikined by the truth and realising we have been
betrayed by a disgraced church proper in the hands of illuminati..
always has been in their monster hands...thats why jesus had problems
two thousand years ago with these types...these elitest religous
leaders thaT SERVE A BASTARD AND A BASTARDS EXISTANCE... ole slewfooty
aka legion...aka goodguy aliens...aka watchers...aka demons...aka war
if ya stand for the namesake of Jesus the Christ

jn 1:7
the same came as a witness to bear witness of the light that all men
through him might believe.

do you have any thoughts on this passage of scripture ronnytx? it
speaks to what i told you and you've come to the right place..

[philedelphia]

> speaks to what i told you and you've come to the right place..- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

kro to ronnytx
can you explain why a one eyed extraterrestrial would communicate a
warning to us all against those bearing false presence (watchers) and
deception???

why would ole one eye ugly ruin a perfectly fine and outstanding crop
feild to warn the world of impending "pain" "much pain" to be more
specific... said there was time left and that ole one eye
"desired" (observes) some good in us somewhere..wasnt specific...hmmm
said "there was still SOME good out there"...hmmm

hey ronnytx did ya see star bright hoverin over the temple mound in
jerusalm last year? got any comment on it???? see im tired of just one
liner opinions whats really happenin tex? who are you if ya got it all
figured out??? no hell no worries all aussie like... good aye...go for
a walk about will ya tex? think about all this while your at
it...souls are weighed in the balance of your words friend..be sure to
keep it real... tell people not to worry about the fate of their souls
and whistle in the dark as all hellbreaks loose areound them...will
you still hold the same opinion when your treated like a common thing
debris to be discarded for the greater good of their utopia.. when
your in a foxhole fighting for a childs life your own against the most
horrid of nightmares come true the beast that rises from the pit and
turns locust into demon men...when your child suffers the injustice
and vilolation of their very existance will you be there to say
everybody will get along later when the dusty fragments settle into
eternal clarity meaninful purpose? war is hell for a reason...its a
reflection of ther eternal option...

[philedelphia]

> reflection of ther eternal option...- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

kro

"suffers the injustice
> and vilolation of their very existance will you be there to say
> everybody will get along later when the dusty fragments settle into
> eternal clarity meaninful purpose? war is hell for a reason...its a

> reflection of the eternal option"


only rvelation left at this stage is the one that includes jesus and a
room for you to join him in...and a question....were you jedi? or
sithian? the real deal or not? its a room full of suprises....one that
is found familiar upon entry i would suppose..suprisingly familiar

the heart is a decietfull thing in that we know not what we ought nor
desire a meanifull thing nay...it is the Lord almighty himself that
attones inspires and empowers the command of my loves inclination to
his glory ...his glory the lord jesus christ and his father the most
high living god. the only true glory..

salvation belongs to the lord and with man salvation is impossible but
with god all things are possible.

do i disdain the idea of salvation to all?
does scripture elude to all givin the occassion to salvation?
do all receive salvation within themeselves?

gods desire for his creation is as a husband for his wife and a father
for his children...

would a husband and father suffer diabolical rape of his wife and
perverted molestation of his children.

those that add to the words of the prophecy of this book so shall the
plagues be added unto them..the watchers and unrepentent illuminati
and elitists...those that take away from the words of the prophecy oif
this book shall have their names removed from the lambs book of life.
those that sin against the spirit and refuse the gospel revelation in
the day of the lord. "those that dwell upon the earth" the serfs and
onlookers be warned as well now...the power to stand for the living
god will be givin to the laity as well...do the right thing with it
common man...

some answers are infered or balanced therewith. not just formula but
real human affinty for love of creation gods breath that still remains
with ther spirit of man and hate for the violation of it...and make no
mistake its a violation not some grand misunderstanding.

[geraldkrug]

It's not wrong to subject things to the justice measures,
we know we be eternal just by the negotiations so,
if Christ fails then nature would build in another answer.

[philedelphia]

kro
and one thing to be rembered about war, its reality and its truthfull
reflection of hell and its existant eternal reality...

war, all wars, the war...is gods warning to us all and its a
merciful one, against his own eternal terms of peace which are much
more severe and permeanent..

in hell they shall long for war. isnt it ironic.....a poetic
existance for such a desire would be hell...its window of repentence
forever fleeting into the assimilasted moment that was and now forever
remains...

this is why a jedi prefers to be struck down rather than deliver a
fatal blow..but all things in their own time. for now god has taught
my fingers to fight and my hands to war ambassadors of christ.

[Gypsie]

On Feb 6, 11:32 am, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Feb 5, 8:06 pm, Daniel <dano2...@netzero.net> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 1, 6:35 pm, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > That is from Herbert W Armstrongs Church
>
> You are right.  I ran across that in a series of lectures about hell
> during my reasearch on the subject.  This link is to a broadcast by (a
> very young) John Ankerberg, and the subject concerns the everlasting

> torment of hell.  His guest is Walter Martin (http://www.waltermartin.com/radio.html), who takes the approach that there is

> no Hebrew or Greek word that translates for "annihillate".  This idea
> is also in line with the first law of thermodynamics which states that
> energy can change from one form to another, but it cannot be
> destroyed.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT4AqFaUDnY&feature=related
>
> John Ankerberg is currently running a series of shows about the
> Mormons.  His guests include Sandra Tanner, the great-great
> granddaughter of Brigham Young, second prophet of the Mormon Church,
> who left the Mormon faith and became a follower of Christ.  Talk about
> a warped cult religion there!  All cults have one thing in common.
> They enslave their followers by enforcing burdens of servitude, and
> they never know for certain that they will go to heaven, even if they
> completely submerse themselves into its doctrines.  I can't see why a
> JW would even follow a religion where "first prize" has already be
> awarded.  Like Muslims, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses were founded
> by someone who supposedly met an angel who told them that Christianity
> was false, and was given insight to a "more-better" religion.  The
> following scripture sums it up.
>
> (Galatians 1:8)  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
> other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let
> him be accursed.

gypsie: to Loru, did you come to any conclusions re this study?

[Loruhamah]

On Feb 8, 8:37 am, Gypsie <gypsiel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> gypsie: to Loru, did you come to any conclusions re this study?

oh yes...I've always believed in everlasting torment, and like others
have said on here, the guy in that video seems a bit too full of
himself. I just wanted to see what others had to say. It all sounds
good at first. Yippie! "no hell below us...above us, only
sky"....IMAGINE! Then, why bother with all this religious stuff when
we can live like animals? It makes no sense for us to carry that yoke
of guilt on our necks if that were true, but I'm not willing to bet my
soul on it. I think most everyone would choose to yield to the flesh
and not worry about the consequences, because we would not exist after
this life to even know what we were missing. God could probably count
the number of people going to heaven on 10 fingers.

Armstrong's church basically uses the same scriptures as the JW's to
rationalize hell away, and that's a warning flag to me. I consider
Walter Martin to be more in tune with the scriptures and agree with
his teachings. Walter is gone, but his audio teachings can be found
at http://www.waltermartin.com/realaudio.html. There are quite a few
audio files about Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons on there right now.
I've learned a lot running the references about the deity of Christ.
I had to laugh when on one of the tapes he said, "Gerald Ford is now
the President of the United States". So that dates it to the mid
70's, but it is still very good teaching.

I never thought about Revelation Chapt. 1 confirming that Jesus is
Jehovah God. The voice John heard said "I am Alpha and Omega, the
first and the last" (Vs. 11). Any JW will agree that is Jehovah God
speaking. Then in Verse 17, He says the same thing, and continues
with in Verse 18 by adding, "I am He that liveth, and was dead; and,
behold, I am alive forevermore". Next time I have a discussion with
my JW friend, I'm going to ask her when did Jehovah God ever die?

[studio]

On Feb 8, 10:59 am, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 8:37 am, Gypsie <gypsiel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > gypsie: to Loru, did you come to any conclusions re this study?
>
> oh yes...I've always believed in everlasting torment, and like others
> have said on here, the guy in that video seems a bit too full of
> himself.  I just wanted to see what others had to say.  It all sounds
> good at first.  Yippie!  "no hell below us...above us, only
> sky"....IMAGINE!   Then, why bother with all this religious stuff when
> we can live like animals?  It makes no sense for us to carry that yoke
> of guilt on our necks if that were true, but I'm not willing to bet my
> soul on it.  I think most everyone would choose to yield to the flesh
> and not worry about the consequences, because we would not exist after
> this life to even know what we were missing.  God could probably count
> the number of people going to heaven on 10 fingers.
>
> Armstrong's church basically uses the same scriptures as the JW's to
> rationalize hell away, and that's a warning flag to me.  I consider
> Walter Martin to be more in tune with the scriptures and agree with
> his teachings.  Walter is gone, but his audio teachings can be found

> athttp://www.waltermartin.com/realaudio.html.  There are quite a few

> audio files about Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons on there right now.
> I've learned a lot running the references about the deity of Christ.
> I had to laugh when on one of the tapes he said, "Gerald Ford is now
> the President of the United States".  So that dates it to the mid
> 70's, but it is still very good teaching.
>
> I never thought about Revelation Chapt. 1 confirming that Jesus is
> Jehovah God.  The voice John heard said "I am Alpha and Omega, the
> first and the last" (Vs. 11).  Any JW will agree that is Jehovah God
> speaking.  Then in Verse 17, He says the same thing, and continues
> with in Verse 18 by adding, "I am He that liveth, and was dead; and,
> behold, I am alive forevermore".  Next time I have a discussion with
> my JW friend, I'm going to ask her when did Jehovah God ever die?

.
studio:

Walter Martin has a great recording about "witnessing" to The
Witnesses.
In that study he totally declares to not let them get a word in
edgewise! lol.
He says to immediately start off with a prayer before they have a
chance
to open their briefcase! Of course, in his style you don't know if
he's
tongue in cheek or downright serious, but his love for the witnesses
is evident when he reminds us that Jesus died on that cross for
all of us, including those JW's and all other cult members.

As I have stated here before, there were a handful of us that would
attend Walter Martin's Bible study at Melodyland in the morning,
and then rush down the 5 fwy to Glendale to catch Gene Scott's
11:00 am Sunday service. Some of the names you might recognize from
that would be Eli and Susan. Also I know there was some guy named
Alex that used to do that too.

What a flashback.......that was from the 80's..........wow.

[Daniel]

On Feb 8, 10:59 am, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Feb 8, 8:37 am, Gypsie <gypsiel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > gypsie: to Loru, did you come to any conclusions re this study?
>
> oh yes...I've always believed in everlasting torment, and like others
> have said on here, the guy in that video seems a bit too full of
> himself.  I just wanted to see what others had to say.  It all sounds
> good at first.  Yippie!  "no hell below us...above us, only
> sky"....IMAGINE!   Then, why bother with all this religious stuff when
> we can live like animals?  It makes no sense for us to carry that yoke
> of guilt on our necks if that were true, but I'm not willing to bet my
> soul on it.  I think most everyone would choose to yield to the flesh
> and not worry about the consequences, because we would not exist after
> this life to even know what we were missing.  God could probably count
> the number of people going to heaven on 10 fingers.
>
> Armstrong's church basically uses the same scriptures as the JW's to
> rationalize hell away, and that's a warning flag to me.  I consider
> Walter Martin to be more in tune with the scriptures and agree with
> his teachings.  Walter is gone, but his audio teachings can be found

> athttp://www.waltermartin.com/realaudio.html.  There are quite a few

> audio files about Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons on there right now.
> I've learned a lot running the references about the deity of Christ.
> I had to laugh when on one of the tapes he said, "Gerald Ford is now
> the President of the United States".  So that dates it to the mid
> 70's, but it is still very good teaching.
>
> I never thought about Revelation Chapt. 1 confirming that Jesus is
> Jehovah God.  The voice John heard said "I am Alpha and Omega, the
> first and the last" (Vs. 11).  Any JW will agree that is Jehovah God
> speaking.  Then in Verse 17, He says the same thing, and continues
> with in Verse 18 by adding, "I am He that liveth, and was dead; and,
> behold, I am alive forevermore".  Next time I have a discussion with
> my JW friend, I'm going to ask her when did Jehovah God ever die?

Biblically I believe in a everlasting hell because God breathed into
us well into Adam first the breath of life, can Gods breath of life be
anything but eternal? Man physical body can die but his soul does
not. That being said my mind recoils with the whole idea of a eternal
hell someone not existing seems much better... I am not the only one I
am sure that has somone that is close to them that has not received
Chirst as there saviour the idea that if I spend eternity in heaven
but also knowing that somone I care about is in eternal torment, God
will have to do something to my mind where I will be ok with it where
I see things differently. In my own mind I would be much more content
with somone not existing anymore than eternal torment.

[babyshoes]

> with somone  not existing anymore than eternal torment.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

> but also knowing that somone I care about is in eternal torment, God
> will have to do something to my mind where I will be ok with it where
> I see things differently.>

<'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus over here to dip
the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue>

I wonder if Lazarus asked to help this guy out while in Abrahams
bosom...

watching torment..something about that....


seems our justice system..seeing the condemned get their punishment..

but your not talking about a hundred life sentences like on earth..

eternity....or till the judgemet..the second death...or when hell
itself is thrown into hell..forever


and what did Jesus say basically...that they had the prophets, and
didn't listen, and now we have Jesus and were not listening
still..were leaving it up to the commercial church to teach and
preach, we are far from our sisters and brothers..

the time to care about your brother and sisters salvation is now...

and yet..when I hear a near death experience, heaven or hell, it does
give me great pause...

Jesus knew we would be thinking about our friends and loved ones in
this way...

and they do come back from the dead and warn us...as Jesus warned us,
again,and again.

[geraldkrug]

If you need hell you got it.

[babyshoes]

On Feb 9, 1:14 pm, geraldkrug <gd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If you need hell you got it.

http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/sunmir2.htm

12/9/2012
http://spaceweather.com/

[philedelphia]

> again,and again.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

ty for this read bbyshs

the lord says he blots out our sin for his own sake...reading your
post made me wonder about a redeemed existance where the lord blots
out hell for our ownsake....

now i wonder what being born again will really be like cast in this
light...to truely have a newborn existance into a memory bank made up
of the redeemed moments of ones life and an eternity to add to it in
reconciliation basking in the lords glory ...

wow blessed and wonderfull lord

[geraldkrug]

This sunset is amazing showing something unnatural I think..

http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/smir12.htm

[geraldkrug]

If your into catching green flashes in sunset pictures and videos...

http://mintaka.sdsu.edu/GF/index.html

The inversion layers are the big tool nature uses for these things
they say...

[geraldkrug]

Heres another good one...

http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/gfim13.htm

It makes ME think of the darkness people.

You know those people who have sun blocking type lighting, well to
them it's lighting,
so all your seeing is the cities in the sky turn off their sun blocker
lighting systems
late because a reflection to sensors goes on too long and keeps the
blockers on too long
thus revealing their presence to us.

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Sun, Feb 5, 2012, 4:15pm (CST-2) From:
studi...@gmail.com (studio)

studio:
Oh brother......I hope this ain't gypsie's first convert to afgs!
lol.

Ronny to Studio:
Can't be,since I have no idea,who this Gypsy is?! :-)

And BTW,just how does one get converted to AFGS? And would that be
considered a good thing or a bad thing?! :-)

P.S.
And sorry,for taking so long,to get back to this thread! It's just that
I've been sick lately and it took me some time,to have the good sense,to
go to my doctor! (ha) Did last Thursday and now on 3 meds,for my
present problem. Which is better and which I hope clears up
completely,in a week or so!

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Mon, Feb 6, 2012, 8:44am (CST-2) From:
studi...@gmail.com (studio)

Studio to Ronny:

Wow, three irrelevant scriptures.....got any more of those up yer
sleeve?

Hey Ronny, how the heck did you arrive here? Cuz man, this is surely the
place for a guy (girl) like you! Crazy doctrines not withstanding,
You're in!

Ronny to Studio:
I disagree and simply say,those scriptures are very relevant,to the
subject of whether there is a hell,of fiery,eternal torment or not and
whether all will be saved,before all is said and done.

And I got here,the other night,by way of my cleaning out some of my
Favorites folders,on my WebTV box! (ha) I had forgot,that I had this
link in there,to this group! Maybe I've posted here,a long time back?
Can't remember for sure? But I do know for certain,that a good many
years ago,I did watch Gene Scott now and then,on a local TV station. And
Melissa,a little bit too. Not sure,if Gene was dead at that time or not?
I liked some things about him and agreed with him on somethings; but for
the life of me,it's been so long back now,I can't remember what I did
agree with him about! (ha) But,I did like, his plainspokenness.

BTW,I'm a guy. Wait now. Oh yeah, checked again and I still am! :-)

Now there are several questions,that I'm sure I would like to ask in
here;but for now,I won't.

Oh and tonight,I did manage to get back in here and read more posts. So
some things,are a little clearer. But other things, are still completely
confusing to me,in here! Which is to be expected,since I'm guessing that
this group,has been going for a long while now and most everyone knows
everyone here,etc?

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Mon, Feb 6, 2012, 3:22pm (CST-2) From:
johns...@gmail.com (philedelphia)

Kro to Ronny:

kro
hello ronny,
hell is reserved for blasphemy
no interpretation of scripture is a private interpretation.
all of these scriptures you reference are part of a larger scope of
prophecy related to the testimomy of jesus (johns gospel) into the
revelation of jesus "Christ"
in the last days the complete revelation of jesus christ will be made
manifest and occurances will validate the consumation of the ages....at
this time when the truth is completely realised will be those that are
cowards and wont sacrifice themeselves for the truth and frauds those
that sell out for here and now and bow down to false gods literaly...
the watchers behind the scenes of the illuminati politics religion and
nation/world/reality building thats taking place at the hands of the
elites in all facets of our society...
in our lives befor the end of days to commit the sin of the spirit is to
be aware of a hidden agenda by bad guys and still go along with it..
we will all know the truth of god his righteousness and his divine
retribution and punishing judgements when its time and face a cross road
that may lead to hell if the hearer wont understand...
in the mean time we take away from the truth in ignorence and god
forgives it though the opccassion for a permanent fix draws nigh.. be
happy love one another i made you all clean,,,at least to this degree...

Ronny to Kro:
Hey there and thank you for the welcome. :-)

Now I wonder,where to go from here?! :-)

First I would say,that I no longer believe, in a hell of fiery,eternal
punishment,for anyone. I simply don't believe anymore, that Jesus
Christ,created such a place. But what I do know and believe,is simply,
that God/Jesus Christ is love. I know that, because God proved such to
me,when God saved me-when I was born from above by God. And everyone
born of God, knows that God is love;but sadly,so many of us get a lot of
false junk added on too,to our thinking and believing,as we grow up,in
denominational type churches. I know I did and I know it was God,who
freed me from such and is freeing me from such. God teaching me,is an
ongoing thing,just as it is for all,born of God. And since that is so,in
no way do I claim,that I know and understand everything. For in fact,I
simply don't.

And I take it,that some or all who post in here,were once followers of
Gene Scott. I was never that;but I was a believer in and follower of,the
particular branch of the
Baptist denomination,that I grew up in. There I was taught to listen
to,believe with out question and repeat back,word for word. No thinking
needed,on my part. That was done for me. And in that particular church,I
was taught/
brainwashed to fully believe that,that was God's way. And it was a long
time,before God taught me better;but that,God did. :-)

[Weatherman]

On Feb 15, 12:11 am, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Mon, Feb 6, 2012, 3:22pm (CST-2) From:

> johnstar...@gmail.com (philedelphia)

> On Feb 5, 11:47 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 1, 2012, 6:35pm (CST-2) From:
> hurricane...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)
>
> Loruhamah:
> Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
>
> Ronny to Loruhamah:
> No,there isn't. There is no such thing or place,as a hell of
> fiery,eternal torment.
>
> Loruhamah:
> I ran across this lecture about hell and found it to be interesting.
> Basically, this guy says hell is not eternal punishment, and that if one
> is sent there, they just do not exist any longer. Does anyone know any
> scripture that is contrary to those presented here? He makes a lot of
> sense but it isn't the concept of hell that I've been taught all my
> life. However, I am open minded and willing to learn something new if it

> fits with the Bible.http://www.youtube.com/user/RestoredCOG?v=ah6eu01q8Ng&feature=pyv

WM-Do you understand the amount of scripture one has to overlook or
disregard to believe there is no hell?

[Loruhamah]

To Ronny:

> Loruhamah:
> Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
>
> Ronny to Loruhamah:
> No,there isn't. There is no such thing or place,as a hell of
> fiery,eternal torment.

>"The next day,John saw Jesus coming unto him and said,Behold the Lamb of
>God,who takes away the sin of the world." John 1:29

>"And I,if I (Jesus Christ) be lifted up from the earth,will draw (drag)
>all men unto me. This he said,signifying what death he should die." John
>12:32,33

>"And we have seen and do testify,that the Father sent the Son,to be the
>Saviour of the world." 1 John 4:14

Here's my take on the above scriptures. Forgive me for over
simplifying, because I don't mean to be contemptuous. This is how I
break it down.

Jesus Christ purchased every human soul by giving his life for us.
Think of it like the TV series, "Storage Wars" where storage units
are auctioned off to the highest bidder. Many items are inside the
unit, some good, some not so good but can be restored, and some not
worth keeping. In order to get the things you do want, you have to
purchase the entire lot.

The whole world has been redeemed, but WE decide whether Christ sees
us as worthy to keep. He is not going to "drag" every soul to heaven
against their will. The word "draw", as used in John 12:32 is
"helko". It can mean "drag", but in this sense it means draw by
inward power, or to impel. The word "sha'ab" is used more in the
sense of drawing water, like "dragging" a bucket of water up a well
(Gen 24:11).

Another comparison would be the law of gravity. If you decide to jump
off the Sears tower, it isn't going to have mercy on you and "drag"
you back up. Your fate will be sealed, and you will be judged
according for your action when you hit the ground. It was your
decision to jump. The law has always been there. If your boss says
he has free tickets to the game this weekend for anyone that wants to
go, it is your decision to go or not. Either way, the ticket was a
free gift for everyone.

A few years ago, a deer had fallen through thin ice while trying to
cross a river, and it was struggling to get out. A TV crew filmed a
rescue team working their way to the deer across the top of the ice to
try and save it. The deer gave itself over to them, and it was
saved. Had it resisted the rescue workers, it would have drowned.

Okay, so Bambi was saved.....I know.....you're thinking....BIG WOOP!
It was saved only to be shot the next hunting season.....LOL However,
when you think about what Christ did for us on the cross, it is very
similar. It's our choice to give ourselves over to Him. We can argue
all day whether hell is eternal punishment or not, but I don't see how
the above scriptures answer to that specifically.

[geraldkrug]

Yeah it's funny to say "If it's in agreement with the bible" only PMS
knows that STUPID SCOTTY.

[babyshoes]

here is one who thinks it's a BIG WOOP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D2YR-ma8nY

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Mon, Feb 6, 2012, 3:52pm (CST-2) From:
johns...@gmail.com (philedelphia)

Kro to Ronny:

Kro to Ronny:

Ronny to Kro:
The way I see it,John chapter one and various other scriptures,they are
telling us,that Jesus Christ,is the light of the world. For all the
world and not just a part of it.

Let's go on down now,to some more of those verses,in John 1.


"John 1
1:1   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.
1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing
made that was made.
1:4   In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
1:5   And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness
comprehended it not.
1:6  There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
1:7  The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that

all men through him might believe.

1:8  He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that
Light.
1:9  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh
into the world.
1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the
world knew him not.
1:11  He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
1:12   But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become
the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
1:13   Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.


Ronny to Kro:
We see here,that the lost person,is born of God's will. Not of their own
or of anyone elses;but of God's.


1:14   And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, * (and we
beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full
of grace and truth.
1:15   John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of
whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was
before me.
1:16   And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
1:17   For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by
Jesus Christ.
1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which
is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1:19   And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests
and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
1:20   And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed *, I am not
the Christ.
1:21   And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith,
I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
1:22   Then said they unto him, Who art thou ? that we may give an
answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
1:23  He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make
straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
1:24   And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
1:25   And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou
then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
1:26   John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there
standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
1:27   He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose
*  shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
1:28  These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John
was baptizing.


Ronny to Kro:
Below,is one of my favorite verses. :-) Where John simply says;behold
the Lamb of God,who takes away the sin of the world. I don't doubt,that
most Christians don't believe that. I know I didn't,for I was taught to
believe differently from that,in the local church,that I grew up in. My
particular church was Calvinist in belief and teaching,so I was simply
taught to believe,that God would only save some people and the
rest,would go to hell. Now on the other side,in the Arminian/free will
churchs,they were taught to believe,that God/Jesus Christ,wanted
everyone to be saved;but in fact,God could save no one. What I see and
say now,is that not only can God save everyone;but that before all is
said and done,God/Jesus Christ,will do that very thing! :-)


John 1:
1:29  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,
Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1:30   This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is
preferred before me: for he was before me.
1:31  And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to
Israel, therefore *  am I come baptizing with water.
1:32   And John bare record, saying *, I saw the Spirit descending
from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
1:33  And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water,
the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending,
and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy
Ghost.
1:34  And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
1:35   Again the next day after John stood, and two of his
disciples;
1:36   And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the
Lamb of God!
1:37   And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed
Jesus.
1:38   Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto
them, What seek ye * ? They said unto him, Rabbi, * (which is to say,
being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou ?
1:39  He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he
dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.
1:40   One of the two which heard * John speak, and followed him,
was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
1:41   He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him,
We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
1:42   And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he
said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which
is by interpretation, A stone.
1:43  The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and
findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
1:44   Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
1:45   Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found
him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of
Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
1:46   And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come
out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
1:47   Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold
an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
1:48   Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus
answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou
wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
1:49   Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the
Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
1:50   Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I
saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou ? thou shalt see greater
things than these.
1:51   And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and
descending upon the Son of man." John 1:1,51

 

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Mon, Feb 6, 2012, 4:24pm (CST-2) From:
johns...@gmail.com (philedelphia)

Kro to Ronny:

Kro to Ronny:

Ronny to Kro:
Oh,I far from have it all figured out! (ha) :-) But this I know,we are
all,everyone of us,in God's hands and there is no better place to be!
:-)

But you did ask me,who am I? Why,I'm simply a born from above,child of
God. One,whom God has saved. And God did that for me,when I was 16 years
old. So, that's been 40 years ago now. And you see,I know Who saved me
and how God did that.

Now,let's back up a bit,to when I was 12 years old. I was in church,felt
guilty about something,went up after the service and believed everything
the preacher said to me,about God,Jesus Christ,the Bible,etc, etc. And
in that way,I thought I had been saved. I thought and completely
believed, that I'd become a Christian. And obviously,others there felt
the same,for later I was baptized and made a member, of that local
church.

And as I've said,in other places,my local church was Calvinistic in
belief. And there I was taught to believe without question,everything
that came from the pulpit. There I was taught,we didn't know
everything;but we knew more than anyone else :-) and what we knew,was
all exactly right,as it was straight from God. Another interesting
thing,about this local church;I was taught to believe there,that I was
worthless and less than worthless;but at one and the same time,I was
taught to look down on others,who didn't believe as we did. I was taught
to believe,that we and those just like us in belief,we made up the one
true church,of Jesus Christ. As a side note,Billy Graham and the
Southern Baptists,were liberals! :-)

So that was pretty much the way of it with me,from 12 years old to 16
years old. And I'm going to leave out somethings here;but at 16 years
old,God simply and directly entered my life and let me know, that I was
lost. God let me know,that I was not in a right relationship with God.
Boy,did that ever shock me! And in this way,God forced me to seek help.
And that help came in the form of a person,who simply read some
scriptures to me. And as they did,God openened my heart/
understanding,so that I could understand, how they applied to me. God
let me see my sinful selfrighteousness and God let me see,my need of
God. God led me,to repentance towards God. And just as soon as I had
repented/agreed with God, the love of God,began pouring out upon me and
God showed me,Jesus Christ on the cross. God let me see and
understand,that Jesus Christ was there for me,there in my place,there
taking my sins,upon himself. I believed God. My faith and trust,was then
in God and in Jesus Christ and in what I then knew he had done for me,on
the cross. So in this way,I was saved/born of God. This is how,God saved
me. This is how,God put me back in,a right relationship with God.

The man,who had simply read some scriptures to me,he then asked me,if I
wanted to pray? I did and my first prayer to God,was simply a prayer of
thanksgiving,with me thanking God,for what God,had just done for me! :-)
Then I went on,to tell others,what God had done for me. And in that,I
wanted/desired for everyone of them,to then have,the same type
relationship with God,as I then had.

Now,how God saved me,can well be summed up,in a verse from the
song,Amazing Grace. :-) "Twas grace that taught my heart to fear and
grace my fears relieved. How precious did that grace appear,the hour I
first believed!" :-)

So,in all of this,I tell and stress,what God did for me,in God saving
me. And I do not say,that I saved myself,for I didn't. But it was God
and God's grace,by way of Jesus Christ and the cross,that saved me. And
in that way,God brought me back into,a right relationship with God.

But then,I went back home,to my particular home church,where I had
already been taught to believe,that God only and truly loved some people
and that Jesus Christ,had only gone to the cross,for those and for no
others. And there,I had also been taught to previously believe,that all
of my church's teachings were straight from God and true beyond
question.

Over many years of time,God began to bring me out of,the above. That
is,out of idol worship of denomination, denominational teachings and
denominational leaders and what they said.

And it was not quite 2 years ago now,that I still thought,that there
were only two basic ways,that various Christians believed. The Calvinist
and the Arminian/ free will way. And I was still,a Calvinist in
belief,just as I'd been brought up in church and taught to believe that
way. But about 2 years ago now,I first found out about Christians,who
were neither of those ways,in belief;but who instead,were called by
various names,such as Christian universalists. Before this,I had no
idea, that there were Christians,who believed that before all was said
and done,God/ Jesus Christ,would save everyone and that there was no
hell,of fiery,eternal torment. Of course,that sound good-well,it sounded
great! (ha) :-) But were they right or not? It was very hard for me to
even think,that they might be? But then,I read their words for myself,to
see why they believed,the way they did? I read their words for myself,to
see what if any scriptures they had,to back up what they believed? I saw
for myself and yes,I came to see and believe,that Jesus Christ really
is,the Saviour of the whole world. :-) And that before all is said and
done,each person will know that,as such is shown to and proven to
them,by God.

And no,I expect no one to believe me, because I say the above;but I
simply ask people,to check for themselves and see for themselves. Ask
God to guide you and show you. And don't depend on some people,to do
that for you. Don't follow people;but instead,ask and follow God/ Jesus
Christ.

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Mon, Feb 6, 2012, 5:14pm (CST-2) From:
johns...@gmail.com (philedelphia)

Kro to Ronny:

Ronny to Kro:
And I completely agree,that salvation is of the Lord and with God,all
things are possible. For it is by God's grace and not ourself,that we
are saved/born of God. So,what is God's desire and will,in this area?
Let's see.


"I exhort therefore,that,first of all,
supplications,prayers,intercessions and giving of thanks,be made for all
men. For kings and for all that are in authority;that we may lead a
quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good
and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;Who will have all men to
be saved,and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one
God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus. Who gave
himself a ransom for all,to be testified in due time."
1 Timothy 2:1,6

"And I,if I (Jesus Christ) be lifted up from the earth,will draw (drag)

all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die."
John 12:32,33


"Herein is love,not that we loved God,but that He loved us,and sent His
Son to be the propitiation (covering) for our sins; and not for ours
only,but for the sins of the whole world" (I John. 4:10; 2:2).


"For he (God) hath made him (Jesus Christ) to be sin for us,who knew no
sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 1
Corinthians 5:21


"For who makes you to differ from another? And what have you that you
did not receive? Now if you did receive it,why do you glory (boast),as
if you had not received it?" 1 Corinthians 4:7


"Or do you despise the riches of his goodness and forbearance and
longsuffering;not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to
repentance?" Romans 2:4


"He (Jesus Christ) was in the world and the world was made by him and
the world knew him not. He came unto his own and his own received him
not. But as many as received him,to them gave he power to become the
sons of God,even to them that believe on his name. Which were born,not
of blood,nor of the will of the flesh,nor of the will of man,but of
God." John 1:10,13


"So then it is not of him that wills,nor of him that runs,but of God
that shows mercy." Romans 9:16

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2012, 10:59am (CST-2) From:
hurric...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)

On Feb 8, 8:37 am, Gypsie <gypsiel...@gmail.com> wrote:
gypsie:

Gypsie to Loru:

to Loru, did you come to any conclusions re this study?

Loruhamah to Gypsie:

oh yes...I've always believed in everlasting torment, and like others
have said on here, the guy in that video seems a bit too full of
himself. I just wanted to see what others had to say. It all sounds good
at first. Yippie! "no hell below us...above us, only sky"....IMAGINE!
 

Ronny to Loruhamah:
You say,you've always believed in, everlasting torment;but then,how
could you? For surely,someone had to tell and teach you,about that way
of believing, before you could believe,in such. With me,it was simply
me,being taught to believe in a hell,of everlasting torment,in the
particular church,that I grew up in.


Loruhamah to Gypsie:

oh yes...I've always believed in everlasting torment, and like others
have said on here, the guy in that video seems a bit too full of
himself. I just wanted to see what others had to say. It all sounds good
at first. Yippie! "no hell below us...above us, only sky"....IMAGINE!
Then, why bother with all this religious stuff when we can live like
animals? It makes no sense for us to carry that yoke of guilt on our
necks if that were true, but I'm not willing to bet my soul on it. I
think most everyone would choose to yield to the flesh and not worry
about the consequences, because we would not exist after this life to
even know what we were missing. God could probably count the number of
people going to heaven on 10 fingers.

Ronny to Lorahamah:
As you know,I don't believe anymore,in a hell of fiery,eteranal torment
or the other way,that some believe,that at the end of time,God will just
wipe out some people;
but instead,I know believe that God/Jesus Christ,will save all. So,why
should I live a certain way,since I know believe that way? Why shouldn't
I just go hog wild and do as I please? Because of love,God/
Jesus Christ's love. You see,that is the reason,that we obey God and
not,out of fear. Fear,for the Christian,does not come from God. We are
rightly,in reverence/awe of God;but not fearful of God. For what better
place is there to be;but in the hands of God?! :-)


Loruhamah to Gypsie:

Armstrong's church basically uses the same scriptures as the JW's to
rationalize hell away, and that's a warning flag to me. I consider
Walter Martin to be more in tune with the scriptures and agree with his
teachings. Walter is gone, but his audio teachings can be found at
http://www.waltermartin.com/realaudio.html. There are quite a few audio
files about Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons on there right now. I've
learned a lot running the references about the deity of Christ. I had to
laugh when on one of the tapes he said, "Gerald Ford is now the
President of the United States". So that dates it to the mid 70's, but
it is still very good teaching.
I never thought about Revelation Chapt. 1 confirming that Jesus is
Jehovah God. The voice John heard said "I am Alpha and Omega, the first
and the last" (Vs. 11). Any JW will agree that is Jehovah God speaking.
Then in Verse 17, He says the same thing, and continues with in Verse 18
by adding, "I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive
forevermore". Next time I have a discussion with my JW friend, I'm going
to ask her when did Jehovah God ever die?

Ronny to Loruhamah:
There's no reason,to get bogged down in what Herbert W. Armstong/Church
of God or the Jehovah Witnesses,say and teach about hell. But having
said that,I will add, just because a group of people are wrong about
onething,that doesn't mean,they're wrong about everything. They may or
they may not be? Or more likely,they're simply right on somethings and
not on others. But what is true of Armstrong,the COG and Jehovah
Witnesses,is just as true, when applied to Baptists,Methodists,
Catholics and say,the teachings of Gene and Melissa Scott,etc,etc.

What to do,to see if a matter is true or not? Ask God. Ask God to guide
you and show you and search the scriptures. Hear what others have to say
and see what proof if any,they can show,for their particular way of
believing? Starting,about 16 years ago now,this is what God began to
free me,to do.

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2012, 11:52am (CST-2) From:
studi...@gmail.com (studio)

On Feb 8, 10:59 am, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Feb 8, 8:37 am, Gypsie <gypsiel...@gmail.com> wrote:


gypsie: to Loru, did you come to any conclusions re this study?

Loruhamah to Gypsie:

Studio to Loruhamah:

studio:
Walter Martin has a great recording about "witnessing" to The Witnesses.
In that study he totally declares to not let them get a word in
edgewise! lol.
He says to immediately start off with a prayer before they have a chance
to open their briefcase! Of course, in his style you don't know if he's
tongue in cheek or downright serious, but his love for the witnesses is
evident when he reminds us that Jesus died on that cross for all of us,
including those JW's and all other cult members.

As I have stated here before, there were a handful of us that would
attend Walter Martin's Bible study at Melodyland in the morning, and
then rush down the 5 fwy to Glendale to catch Gene Scott's 11:00 am
Sunday service. Some of the names you might recognize from that would be
Eli and Susan. Also I know there was some guy named Alex that used to do
that too.
What a flashback.......that was from the 80's..........wow.

Ronny to Studio:
I was once in a cult. It was called Baptist. Or at least,it was one
branch,of the Baptist denomination. So really,what denominations,are not
cult like,to some degree?

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2012, 5:35pm (CST-2) From:
dano...@netzero.net (Daniel)

On Feb 8, 10:59 am, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Feb 8, 8:37 am, Gypsie <gypsiel...@gmail.com> wrote:


gypsie: to Loru, did you come to any conclusions re this study?

Loruhamah to Gypsie:

Daniel to Loruhamah:

Biblically I believe in a everlasting hell because God breathed into us
well into Adam first the breath of life, can Gods breath of life be
anything but eternal? Man physical body can die but his soul does not.
That being said my mind recoils with the whole idea of a eternal hell
someone not existing seems much better... I am not the only one I am
sure that has somone that is close to them that has not received Chirst
as there saviour the idea that if I spend eternity in heaven but also
knowing that somone I care about is in eternal torment, God will have to
do something to my mind where I will be ok with it where I see things
differently. In my own mind I would be much more content with somone not
existing anymore than eternal torment.

Ronny to Daniel:
Why not,at least consider,that before all is said and done,God will save
everyone and that by way,of Jesus Christ and the cross?

And consider this. God/Jesus Christ created all things. So are we to
believe, that he also,created a hell,of fiery,eternal torment,for even
one person,to go to? And the more traditional teaching,that I know of,it
simply says,that most people,will end up in this hell. And when I was
really young,that didn't bother me,because I simply didn't,think of
such. And after all, there I was in church and all my loved ones
too,either in that church or some church. So,me and mine,we were just
fine,since we were Christians. Then I got on up in my teens and some
loved family members began to die,who I knew were not Christian. What to
do then? Why,I did my best,not to think about such. Or when I did,I
tried to quickly get my mind,on something else. Yet,think about it,if a
hell of fiery,eternal torment is true,then hell is of God/Jesus Christ
and it's good. For all that God made,is good. Now the question. What
good is this hell for? What makes it good? What good of a place,that God
is said to of created,where many people,will be tormented eternally?
Well,that's what most of us,were brought up in church, taught to
believe. So is that,we were taught to believe of God/Jesus Christ,on
this matter,true or not? Does a hell,of fiery,eternal torment show,the
love of God/Jesus Christ and that,God is love? Of course,it doesn't.
So,where did this hell,come from. It came from paganism. And from
there,passed on down to Roman Catholicism and from there,to
Protestantism. Hard to believe,isn't it,that we've all been so
taught,to believe such lies? But in fact,we have. So,I would simply
asked you to check out some of the links,that I've previously posted
here. A good one to start with,is that tentmaker.org,webpage link. A lot
of good articles there,about what I'm talking about here.

[studio]

On Feb 16, 1:37 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:

>
> Ronny to Studio:
> I was once in a cult. It was called Baptist. Or at least,it was one
> branch,of the Baptist denomination. So really,what denominations,are not
> cult like,to some degree?

.
studio:
Ronny, I read you posts above about your time in that denomination
and how you had the doctrines, like formulations to rely on instead
of searching the scriptures for yourself. Well, like you said that's
the way "cults" operate.

But not all denominations unlike cults have a hidden agenda to
abuse the dumb sheep into emptying their bank accounts and
cutting them off from those who love them like friends and family
members. some cults if not all, need a total control of the
person/ cult member to be effective in getting their money
without outside influence questioning the allocation of
the monies.

Funny how denominations nowa days are driven by the
government to morph into corporations one way or another.
You might say yeah but they are non profit organizations...........
even non profit orgs by design, are a money making entity.

This was the hardest thing about The Scott Cult. We had our
freedom, at least we thought it was freedom. We could
drink and cuss and smoke and fuck around and all the
indulgences we once thought were taboo became
our battle cry of Freedom in Christ, saved by grace etc.

Everyone else was anathema and we were labeled
uncommon soldiers and chosen before the world's were formed
to follow "God's man", the domata for this end time, Gene Scott.

[rpbc]

On Feb 16, 1:01 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Mon, Feb 6, 2012, 5:14pm (CST-2) From:

> johnstar...@gmail.com (philedelphia)

> On Feb 7, 2:24 am, philedelphia <johnstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 1:52 am, philedelphia <johnstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 1:22 am, philedelphia <johnstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 11:47 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 1, 2012, 6:35pm (CST-2) From:
> hurricane...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)
>
> Loruhamah:
> Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
>
> Ronny to Loruhamah:
> No,there isn't. There is no such thing or place,as a hell of
> fiery,eternal torment.

rpbc:
Ronny... that's quite an absolute statement to make. I hear
discussions like this and I wonder to what end they serve. In the
first place whatever we believe about it won't change it one way or
the other but secondly, why would one chose not to believe there is
hell, whatever it may be which, if it exists, the concept we would
have will certainly be constrained by language itself. End of being
is in itself quite an abstract... like how big can big get or how
small can small be, or before or after time begins or ends. Some my
argue the reference point but we assume a being is created at
conception.. that word created, a power/attribute given us having His
likeness, able to procreate. You're saying that power in His
likeness to procreate, the result, a being, would just end. Maybe....
but we don't know. Lot's of thing suggest it goes on. Whatever hell
might be one aspect it would seem to have would be having certain
knowledge of God and never, ever in an eternity of time being able to
visit Him or His place of Being in person or Spirit.... analogy fails
but something akin to having eyes but no light, ears but no sound,
desire but no love forever and ever. In other words, cut off all the
while fully aware it is consequence of one's own choice. On the other
hand... if it's fear of hell that keeps one on the 'reservation' of
avoiding God's punishment it would seem a rather hollow
relationship... less free will seeking the everlasting love of God
than avoiding his wrath. Like a son who out of love and respect for
his father would never bring him shame or personal disappointment, not
merely to avoid his father's anger. For my own self... and this might
be foolish... I hardly ever think about hell. If it exists, which on
the face of it seems to be true, what difference would it make what we
thought about it. God on the other hand... God is everything to
think about, it's there where we check our souls.

[Gypsie]

> think about, it's there where we check our souls.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

gypsie: You guys are being sucked in by a scottie fly by, I'm jest
trying to figure out who this person is, but trust me, FLAP FLAP SWAK!
right Tx?

[studio]

On Feb 16, 3:41 pm, rpbc <b_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

.
studio:
Nice statement rpbc..... to add to that I would say it's an expressed
view of one Ronny on afgs.........I can deal with his view given that
he has the ability to spell correctly and do some thinking for himself
as it seems.

He would be on my retarded list if he claim the absurdity that
"Heaven and Hell" are right here on Earth and we make our
daily decisions to live in bliss or blunder. Ever heard some
numbnuts say shit like that? It usually occurs in dive bars
or on blind dates.

[studio]

>
> gypsie: You guys are being sucked in by a scottie fly by, I'm jest
> trying to figure out who this person is, but trust me, FLAP FLAP SWAK!
> right Tx?

.
studio:
Well now, most if not all scotties truly believe in a literal "hell".
Without the fixation of hell on their minds, none of the Scott
doctrine
and scripture twisting would be effective.

There would be lower amount of tithing and offerings. there would also
be a less willing participation in volunteering and especially the
dreaded call from "THE VOICE OF FAITH CO-ORDINATOR"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides gypsie, you're the one who gave an open invitation to scotties
just a few days ago!

If they feel they have to mask themselves to participate, then so be
it.

[rpbc]

> or on blind dates.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

rpbc:
Well.. depending on how 'blond' the date is I might go along to get
along. Other than that it's too retarded to even want to converse
with. About Ronny, I'm not sure he's thinking for himself unless it
has something to do with avoidance, then it's more about thinking of
instead of for himself. Either way he has put some thought to it and
while spelling doesn't change the meaning it sure affects the
orientation for most readers.

Gypsie.... I think the fly by is highly probable but that's okay, the
exchange is for the mice that might be watching.

[studio]

.
> > studio:
> > Nice statement rpbc..... to add to that I would say it's an expressed
> > view of one Ronny on afgs.........I can deal with his view given that
> > he has the ability to spell correctly and do some thinking for himself
> > as it seems.
>
> > He would be on my retarded list if he claim the absurdity that
> > "Heaven and Hell" are right here on Earth and we make our
> > daily decisions to live in bliss or blunder. Ever heard some
> > numbnuts say shit like that? It usually occurs in dive bars
> > or on blind dates.-
>

> rpbc:
> Well.. depending on how 'blond' the date is I might go along to get
> along.  Other than that it's too retarded to even want to converse
> with.   About Ronny, I'm not sure he's thinking for himself unless it
> has something to do with avoidance, then it's more about thinking of
> instead of for himself.  Either way he has put some thought to it and
> while spelling doesn't change the meaning it sure affects the
> orientation for most readers.

Speaking of "blondes"..........

You know that place where we get pizza and beverages at?
I think that "blonde" is calling yer name. You might need a wingman!

[babyshoes]

On Feb 16, 3:41 pm, rpbc <b_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> think about, it's there where we check our souls.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

when you look at earth it is a beautiful place..you wouldn't think
that horror goes on there, but it does..

[Gypsie]

gypsie: not to fret studio, I am surely being entertained. Jest
pointing out the obvious

[studio]

> > > gypsie: You guys are being sucked in by a scottie fly by, I'm jest
> > > trying to figure out who this person is, but trust me, FLAP FLAP SWAK!
> > > right Tx?
>
> > .
> > studio:
>

> > If they feel they have to mask themselves to participate, then so be
> > it.
>
> gypsie: not to fret studio, I am surely being entertained. Jest
> pointing out the obvious

.
studio:
You must be blonde too! lol

[Gypsie]

gypsie: well yah, where it counts lol

[studio]

.
> > studio:
> > You must be blonde too!   lol
>
> gypsie: well yah, where it counts lol

.
studio:
I have some blonde friends, they're only good for one
thing.............

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 9, 2012, 12:25pm (CST-2) From:
mthr...@yahoo.com (babyshoes)

On Feb 8, 5:35 pm, Daniel <dano2...@netzero.net> wrote:
On Feb 8, 10:59 am, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Feb 8, 8:37 am, Gypsie <gypsiel...@gmail.com> wrote:


gypsie: to Loru, did you come to any conclusions re this study?

Loru to Gypsy:

Daniel:

Biblically I believe in a everlasting hell because God breathed into us
well into Adam first the breath of life, can Gods breath of life be
anything but eternal? Man physical body can die but his soul does not.
 That being said my mind recoils with the whole idea of a eternal hell
someone not existing seems much better... I am not the only one I am
sure that has somone that is close to them that has not received Chirst
as there saviour the idea that if I spend eternity in heaven but also
knowing that somone I care about is in eternal torment, God will have to
do something to my mind where I will be ok with it where I see things
differently.  In my own mind I would be much more content with somone

 not existing anymore than eternal torment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

but also knowing that somone I care about is in eternal torment, God
will have to do something to my mind where I will be ok with it where I
see things differently.>

BBShoes:
<'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus over here to dip
the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue>
I wonder if Lazarus asked to help this guy out while in Abrahams
bosom...
watching torment..something about that....
seems our justice system..seeing the condemned get their punishment..
but your not talking about a hundred life sentences like on earth..
eternity....or till the judgemet..the second death...or when hell itself
is thrown into hell..forever
and what did Jesus say basically...that they had the prophets, and
didn't listen, and now we have Jesus and were not listening still..were
leaving it up to the commercial church to teach and preach, we are far
from our sisters and brothers..
the time to care about your brother and sisters salvation is now...
and yet..when I hear a near death experience, heaven or hell, it does
give me great pause...
Jesus knew we would be thinking about our friends and loved ones in this
way...
and they do come back from the dead and warn us...as Jesus warned us,
again,and again.


Ronny to BBShoes:
But then,none of us,have listened. So,we are all in the same boat,until
God causes us to listen and understand.

"What then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise. For we have before
proved both Jews and Gentiles,that they are all under sin. As it is
written,There is none righteous,no,not one. There is none that
understands,there is none that seek after God. They are all gone out of
the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does
good,no,not one."
Romans 3:9,12

"He (Jesus Christ) was in the world and the world was made by him and
the world knew him not. He came unto his own and his own received him
not. But as many as received him,to them gave he power to become the
sons of God,even to them that believe on his name. Which were born,not
of blood,nor of the will of the flesh,nor of the will of man,but of
God." John 1:10,13

And in regards,to other parts of your post,I have read quotes from
Christians,who in past times have said,that those in heaven would
see,know and get pleasure,out of seeing those tormented in hell. It's
hard to imagine,isn't it,any Christian,saying that.

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 15, 2012, 6:33am (CST-2) From:
the.siz...@yahoo.com (Weatherman)

WM to Ronny:

WM-Do you understand the amount of scripture one has to overlook or
disregard to believe there is no hell?

Ronny to WM:
Yes,I do. Would you believe,there is none! :-) Yes,I know,for if you
once had told me that,I too,would of looked at you,as if you were crazy!
:-) (BG!) But consider this, starting in Genesis,where did God ever warn
Adam,of a hell of fiery,eternal torment,as the punishment for sin? Well,
it's not there. Now ask yourself this,if this eternal torment hell,was
the wages for sin,then why didn't God warn Adam of such? And what do the
scriptures tell us,are the wages of sin? Why,death. "For the wages of
sin is death;but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ
our Lord." Romans 6:23 So we see from scripture,that the wages of sin is
death and not,an eternal torment hell.

Too,consider this. When one looks in the New Testament part of the
Bible,where do we find Paul the apostle,warning anyone, about a hell of
fiery,eternal torment? Now if this hell,was a sure thing,would not Paul
of mentioned it prominently? Well then,
why didn't he? But he never tells us,that the wages of sin,is an eternal
torment hell;but instead,that the wages of sin is death.

And no,up until around 2 years ago,I never thought of any of
this,either. For like most,I was brought up in church and simply
taught,there was such a hell. And I never questioned,what I was taught
in church. After all,how could they be wrong, since they spoke for and
in the place of God? Why,everyone knew this,so when the church elders
spoke/taught on hell,
they just had to be right. Or so we were taught. And all I want you to
consider,is that they just might not of been.

Ah,there is just so much good stuff,on all of this,on various webpages.
Webpages, such as those I've posted links to,in here. And all I ask you
to do,is read such,ask God to guide you and see,for yourself. See for
yourself,why I make the statement,that there is no hell of fiery,
eternal torment and that before all is said and done,God will save
everyone and that by way,of Jesus Christ and the cross! :-)

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 15, 2012, 7:31pm (CST-2) From:
hurric...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)

To Ronny:

Loruhamah:
Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?


Ronny to Loruhamah:
No,there isn't. There is no such thing or place,as a hell of
fiery,eternal torment.

"The next day,John saw Jesus coming unto him and said,Behold the Lamb of
God,who takes away the sin of the world." John 1:29

"And I,if I (Jesus Christ) be lifted up from the earth,will draw (drag)
all men unto me. This he said,signifying what death he should die." John
12:32,33

"And we have seen and do testify,that the Father sent the Son,to be the
Saviour of the world." 1 John 4:14

Loruhamah to Ronny:

Here's my take on the above scriptures. Forgive me for over simplifying,
because I don't mean to be contemptuous. This is how I break it down.

Jesus Christ purchased every human soul by giving his life for us. Think
of it like the TV series, "Storage Wars" where storage units are
auctioned off to the highest bidder. Many items are inside the unit,
some good, some not so good but can be restored, and some not worth
keeping. In order to get the things you do want, you have to purchase
the entire lot.

Ronny to Loruhamah:
I agree with you,that by way of the cross, Jesus Christ
purchased,everyone of us! :-) But how to say,that some purchased are
good,some not so good,some worth restoring and some not? For scripture
simply says the following,of us all.

"What then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise. For we have before
proved both Jews and Gentiles,that they are all under sin. As it is
written,There is none righteous,no,not one. There is none that
understands,there is none that seek after God. They are all gone out of
the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does
good,no,not one." Romans 3:9,12

Loruhamah to Ronny:

The whole world has been redeemed, but WE decide whether Christ sees us
as worthy to keep. He is not going to "drag" every soul to heaven
against their will. The word "draw", as used in John 12:32 is "helko".
It can mean "drag", but in this sense it means draw by inward power, or
to impel. The word "sha'ab" is used more in the sense of drawing water,
like "dragging" a bucket of water up a well (Gen 24:11).

Ronny to Loruhamah:
Oh,I quite agree,that God/Jesus Christ,is not going to drag all of us to
heaven, against out will. :-) But how I put it,is that God makes us
willing,as God saves us, as God saves,the lost person. And what force
does God use? Why,the greatest force of all. The love of God. :-) Now
what are we,the lost person like,before God saves us? Well,scripture
tells us that too.


"And you hath he (God) quickened (made alive),who were dead in
trespasses and sins. Wherein in time past you walked according to the
course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the
air,the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. Among
whom also we all had our conversation (manner of life) in times past in
the lusts of our flesh,fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the
mind and were by nature the children of wrath,even as others. But God,
who is rich in mercy,for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when
we were dead in sins,has quickened us (made us alive) together with
Christ,(by grace you are saved;) And has raised us up together and made
us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to
come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness
toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are you saved through faith
and that not of yourselves,it is the gift of God. Not of works,lest any
person should boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ
Jesus unto good works,
which God has before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians
2:1,10


Loruhamah to Ronny:

Another comparison would be the law of gravity. If you decide to jump
off the Sears tower, it isn't going to have mercy on you and "drag" you
back up. Your fate will be sealed, and you will be judged according for
your action when you hit the ground. It was your decision to jump. The
law has always been there. If your boss says he has free tickets to the
game this weekend for anyone that wants to go, it is your decision to go
or not. Either way, the ticket was a free gift for everyone.

A few years ago, a deer had fallen through thin ice while trying to
cross a river, and it was struggling to get out. A TV crew filmed a
rescue team working their way to the deer across the top of the ice to
try and save it. The deer gave itself over to them, and it was saved.
Had it resisted the rescue workers, it would have drowned.

Okay, so Bambi was saved.....I know.....you're thinking....BIG WOOP! It
was saved only to be shot the next hunting season.....LOL However, when
you think about what Christ did for us on the cross, it is very similar.
It's our choice to give ourselves over to Him. We can argue all day
whether hell is eternal punishment or not, but I don't see how the above
scriptures answer to that specifically.

Ronny to Loruhamah:
But then Loruhamah,when the person is lost,they do not know they are
lost and they aren't struggling,to get out. And unlike the deer,in your
story,the lost person is dead. Yet that person,has no idea at all,that
they are dead,until God shows them that. And that God does,as God is
saving the person,as that person is being born from above,by God.

For example,look at Saul the Pharisee. Why,he thought he was doing just
fine and good,right up until the time,Jesus Christ met us with him on
the road to Damascus and knocked him to the
ground! :-) In like manner,when God saved me,for 4 years before that,I
thought I also was just fine and good. I thought I was a Christian. I
truly believed,I had been saved. For I had gone up at church, feeling
guilty about something and there I had agreed with everything the
preacher said to me,about God,Jesus Christ,the Bible,etc. So,I was a
"good" church member,for 4 years there. With not a doubt in the
world;but that I'd been saved and was a Christian. But then,God simply
entered my life,let me know I was lost,led me to repentance towards God
and then, on to faith in Jesus Christ.

Now in the above,God never asked me,if wanted to be saved? No;but
instead,God simply up and saved me! :-) Against my will? Well,I never
had a will in or on the matter,for I didn't even know I was lost and in
need of saving,until God showed me that. But God did,let me know I was
lost. God did show me my sin,my sinfullness. And that against the
backdrop of,my being in the presence of God and God's holiness. God
showed me,God proved to me,my need of God. And such was the goodness of
God,that led me,to repentance towards God! :-) And just as soon as I had
repented/agree with God, the love of God began pouring out upon me and

God showed me,Jesus Christ on the cross. God let me see and

understand,that Jesus Christ was on teh cross for me,there in my

place,there taking my sins,upon himself. I believed God. My faith and

trust was then in God and in Jesus Christ and in what I then knew,he had

done for me,on the cross.

Now,what force did God use,to save me? Why,God's love. :-) The greatest
force of all,against which,nothing can stand! :-) And indeed,why would
one want to?! :-)

And when God saved me,God proved to me,that I was worth more to
God/Jesus Christ,than I could ever,humanly comprehend! :-) Was I or am
I,some how better,than anyone else? No,in no way. For in like
manner,Jesus Christ went to the cross,for us all and there,took our
sins,upon himself! :-) And that's how much,God/Jesus Christ loves us!
:-) So a question I had to ask later,since God saved me,in the way I
describe above, then what sense does it make;but that in God's time,God
will save everyone of us? You see,God doesn't save us,because we're good
and or better than,that other person over there;but instead,God simply
saves us,because God is love and God loves,each and everyone of us! :-)
So,
we're all saved by God's grace and for no other reason,than the simple
fact,that God/Jesus Christ,loves us! :-)

[Ronny TX]

> Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb
> 16, 2012, 2:15pm (CST-2) From:
> studi...@gmail.com (studio)

> On Feb 16, 1:37 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net
> (Ronny TX) wrote:
>
>
> Ronny to Studio:
> I was once in a cult. It was called
> Baptist. Or at least,it was one
> branch,of the Baptist denomination. So
> really,what denominations,are not cult
> like,to some degree?
>
>

> Studio to Ronny:

> studio:
> Ronny, I read you posts above about your
> time in that denomination and how you
> had the doctrines, like formulations to
> rely on instead of searching the
> scriptures for yourself. Well, like you
> said that's the way "cults" operate.

Ronny to Studio:
True and in my particular Baptist cult,as you well put it,I could not
search the scriptures,for myself. I wasn't at all,free to do that. The
preacher,Sunday School teacher or other church elder spoke,that was
taught as the same,as God speaking. So,you were not to question such and
if you disagreed,you were simply let to know,that you were disagreeing
with God and in effect,calling God a liar! Well,I grew up from an
infant,in that particular local church. And I'm not sure,what if much I
took in,before say 12 years old? But at some point,I started "getting"
the above,from the pulpit.

Sometimes,I don't much like to talk about that time and sometimes,I do.


> Studio to Ronny:

> But not all denominations unlike cults
> have a hidden agenda to abuse the dumb
> sheep into emptying their bank accounts
> and cutting them off from those who love
> them like friends and family members.
> some cults if not all, need a total
> control of the person/ cult member to be
> effective in getting their money without
> outside influence questioning the
> allocation of the monies.
> Funny how denominations nowa days are
> driven by the government to morph into
> corporations one way or another. You
> might say yeah but they are non profit
> organizations........... even non profit
> orgs by design, are a money making
> entity.

Ronny to Studio:
In the church,I grew up in,little stress was placed on money or the
giving of money. And everything,about offerings that came in and what
went out and where,that was completely out in the open and transparent.
So that was a good part,
about the church I grew up in. But in that local church,I was cut
off,from friends and family members. And that,while I set right in the
same church building,with them. What I mean is,church leadership,put/
inserted themself,between both God,my parents and myself. I was
taught,that church leaders,were above my parents,in all ways. And what
they said,always came first. If church leadership said/taught one thing
and my parents said another,then by default,church leadership was right
and I was to listen to them.

As to friends? Ha! Well,the local church I grew up in,it was very
small-even when I was real young. Then over the years, people and whole
families,began to disappear. I was let to know,those people either
weren't Christians and or,they simply weren't good Christians. For if
they were,they would of stayed,etc. And in my early teens,there were
only 2 kids my age, left in that church! One girl,came at times, with
parts of her family. She was a Christian. But by and by,her and most of
her family,stopped coming to church. Then,there was one boy my age,who
came with his grandparents. He wasn't a Christian;but he was still my
best friend. He would sometimes go to sleep,during the preaching
service,start to snore loudly and then get upset,when I punched him and
woke him up! :-) LoL But by 16 years old,he stopped coming to church.
But he was still my best friend,at school.

Well,it rather amazes me now,to think back on that local church and how
there,I was so cut off,from other people. It was just us and out little
bunch. No outsiders allowed.


> Studio to Ronny:

> This was the hardest thing about The
> Scott Cult. We had our freedom, at least
> we thought it was freedom. We could
> drink and cuss and smoke and fuck around
> and all the indulgences we once thought
> were taboo became our battle cry of
> Freedom in Christ, saved by grace etc.
> Everyone else was anathema and we were
> labeled uncommon soldiers and chosen
> before the world's were formed to follow
> "God's man", the domata for this end
> time, Gene Scott.

> ---
Ronny to Studio:
Ah yes,I know what it's like,to be taught you're the uncommon soldier.
Chosen by God,before the world began. Chosen by God,for you and yours to
be saved and go to heaven,while the rest,ended up in hell. But in my
local church,I was never taught, that we should sin,because we were
under grace. Quite the opposite. For as a representive of my church,"the
one true church of Jesus Christ," I knew,that I was expected to be,the
best little Christian boy there was! (ha) And I did my best,to be just
that.

Yet in that same period,in parts of my teens,I wanted nothing more,than
to please God. Why? Because God had saved me,when I was 16 years old and
from that,I knew how much God/Jesus Christ loved me! :-) That,I knew
from God and not from any man. That,I was taught of God and not,by some
person or persons.

Just thinking,about somethings you've put above,as compared to the
church I grew up in. In my home church,drinking was a sin. As was,any
dancing! (ha) :-) Smoking, chewing or dipping tobacco,was fine though
and in fact,there was a break between Sunday School and the preaching
hour,when the men who wanted to,went outside to have a smoke or dip! :-)

As for sex and singles,a lot wasn't said about that;but what was
said,was to let you know,that any sex before marriage,
was the worst sin,a young single person could commit. Now as a teen,that
was something I (silently) questioned;but not for the reason,you might
think?! :-) But it just never made any sense to me,the church
teaching,that sex before being marriage,was the worst sin,a young person
could commit. Why not? Well,it struck me,that rape,murder and child
molestation,would have to be greater sins.

An interesting story. One time my church's pastor,he made the comment,
that he didn't know what kids were coming to nowdays?! That in
reference,to some kids having sex,before marriage. And his wife just
popped up and said,they aren't doing anything,that you didn't try to
talk me into,before we were married. And the only reason we didn't,is
because I wouldn't let you! :-) And the preacher got way upset,at his
wife telling off on him! :-) LoL

What do I say now,about things like sex before being legally married? I
simply say, that as a born from above child of God,I am to love God
first,I am to love the other person,as I love myself and I am to treat
the other person,as I wish to be treated. The way I see it,before being
intimate with someone,we are to simply love them, care for them and have
respect for them. I simply say,that is the best way;but in no way,do I
think things will always work out, that way. So,in no way and at no
time,am I going to condemn someone,simply because they have done or
might do,the very same thing,I might very well do,
under the same circumstances.

I will add this too. What I hate and despise,is if anyone uses,abuses
and then throws away another person,as if that person,were something/a
thing,to be selfishly used and then,thrown out in the garbage.

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 3:41pm (CST-2) From:
b_...@hotmail.com (rpbc)

On Feb 16, 1:01 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Mon, Feb 6, 2012, 5:14pm (CST-2) From:
johnstar...@gmail.com (philedelphia)
On Feb 7, 2:24 am, philedelphia <johnstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 7, 1:52 am, philedelphia <johnstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 7, 1:22 am, philedelphia <johnstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 5, 11:47 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 1, 2012, 6:35pm (CST-2) From:
hurricane...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)


Loruhamah:
Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?


Ronny to Loruhamah:
No,there isn't. There is no such thing or place,as a hell of
fiery,eternal torment.


rpbc:
Ronny... that's quite an absolute statement to make. I hear discussions
like this and I wonder to what end they serve. In the first place
whatever we believe about it won't change it one way or the other but
secondly, why would one chose not to believe there is hell, whatever it
may be which, if it exists, the concept we would have will certainly be
constrained by language itself.

Ronny to RPBC:
Well,I was brought up in church,taught by men,that there absolutely was
a hell,of fiery,eternal torment and that most people,would end up there.
Now I would think,be a person brought up in church, taught to be
Calvinist or Arminian/free will in belief,all are pretty much taught to
believe the same,about hell,how many will go there,etc. And as I've
said,until about 2 years ago,I truthfully thought,that all
Christians,were either Calvinistic or Arminian/free will in belief. For
I had never hear,of any other. Then,I found out about some
Christians,who were called by such names,as Christian universalists,etc.
That is,Christians who believed,that before all was said and done,God
was going to save everyone and that by way,of Jesus Christ and the cross
and that there was no hell,of fiery,eternal torment. So, with the people
who believe this way,those two things,go right along together. God/Jesus
Christ saving everyone and no hell.

Now,I had been brought up in church,
taught to be a "good" Calvinist,in belief. That is,that God chose a
certain few people,to definately save,that Jesus Christ went to the
cross,only for those and all the rest,they simply went to hell-a hell of
fiery,eternal torment. Then I knew there was the flip-side. The
Arminian/free willers. The Calvinist side said and taught, that
God/Jesus Christ could save all;but chose only to save some. The free
will/Arminian side saying,God/Jesus Christ wanted to save all;but in
fact,could save no one. Now up until about 2 years ago,I thought that
was it. I thought that was the one and only basic two ways,that various
Christians saw and believed on all this. Then I found out,that was so. I
found out,there was a 3rd way. What is called, Christian universalism.
So,I began to read what those people had to say,why they believed the
way they did and what scriptures if any they had,to back up what they
said and believed? And that is why and how,I came to believe on this
part,as I do now.


RPBC to Ronny:

End of being is in itself quite an abstract... like how big can big get
or how small can small be, or before or after time begins or ends.  
Some my argue the reference point but we assume a being is created at
conception.. that word created, a power/attribute given us having His
likeness, able to procreate.   You're saying that power in His
likeness to procreate, the result, a being, would just end. Maybe....
but we don't know. Lot's of thing suggest it goes on. Whatever hell
might be one aspect it would seem to have would be having certain
knowledge of God and never, ever in an eternity of time being able to
visit Him or His place of Being in person or Spirit.... analogy fails
but something akin to having eyes but no light, ears but no sound,
desire but no love forever and ever. In other words, cut off all the
while fully aware it is consequence of one's own choice.

Ronny to RPBC:
Oh,I think you're confusing me here,with the folks who believe,in
annihilation? That is,at the end of time,if you're not just so-so,God
will simply burn you up,to smoke and ashes and you will be no more. I
know there are some people,who believe that way;but I,in no way,believe
that way. No,what I now believe on this, goes by such names,as Christian
universalist. The simple belief,that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the
whole world,that by the cross he has redeemed us all back to God and
that before all is said and done,each person will know/ understand
that,as each,is born from above by God. So,under this way of
believing,all people will be saved by God/ Jesus Christ and there is no
hell,of fiery, eternal torment. Which is a completely different
thing,from those who believe in annihilation or that at the end,God will
simply burn some people up and they will be no more.


RPBC to Ronny:

On the other hand... if it's fear of hell that keeps one on the
'reservation' of avoiding God's punishment it would seem a rather hollow
relationship... less free will seeking the everlasting love of God than
avoiding his wrath. Like a son who out of love and respect for his
father would never bring him shame or personal disappointment, not
merely to avoid his father's anger.

Ronny to RPBC:
Indeed,what sort of relationship does a person have with God,if it's
based on fear? And since God saved me,when I was 16 years old,since
then,I have known that God/Jesus Christ loved me. :-) Well, God proved
that to me,when God saved me. Yet,I know may people in church, many
Christians,are taught to relate to God,on a basis of fear. Or they
better,do just so-so,or they will go to hell. Or others are taught to
tell people,well God/Jesus Christ loves you;but if you don't believe us
and do as we say,then God has prepared a hell of fiery,eternal torment
for you. And that,is the gosple/"good news" of Jesus Christ,that many
churchs preach and teach.


RPBC to Ronny:

For my own self... and this might be foolish... I hardly ever think
about hell. If it exists, which on the face of it seems to be true, what
difference would it make what we thought about it.   God on the other
hand... God is everything to think about, it's there where we check our
souls.

Ronny to RPBC:
The teaching,is that God/Jesus Christ, created this hell,of
fiery,eternal torment and if you don't do just so,you are going there.
The Calvinist Christians in belief say,God could save everybody;but
chooses to save only some. The Arminian/ free will Christians in
belief,they say,God/ Jesus Christ wants everyone to be saved;but can in
fact,save no one. But both those sides,they agree on and teach a hell,of
fiery,eternal torment. Saying such is of God/Jesus Christ. Now why do I
say something now,about this? Because I now see,such a teaching is just
plain wrong and it's demeaning,to God/Jesus Christ. And the true
gospel/good news of Jesus Christ,is that he came to save his people from
their sins-he came to seek and to save,that which was lost. And that I
say,is exactly what he has done and is doing! :-) Jesus Christ,has won.
It's finished. And it's only a matter of time now,till each person knows
and understands that. And that each will,as they're born from above by
God and that by way,of Jesus Christ and the cross! :-) {BTW,another term
for this way of believing,is the Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ! :-)}

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 3:41pm (CST-2) From:
b_...@hotmail.com (rpbc)

On Feb 16, 1:01 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Mon, Feb 6, 2012, 5:14pm (CST-2) From:
johnstar...@gmail.com (philedelphia)
On Feb 7, 2:24 am, philedelphia <johnstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 7, 1:52 am, philedelphia <johnstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 7, 1:22 am, philedelphia <johnstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 5, 11:47 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 1, 2012, 6:35pm (CST-2) From:
hurricane...@yahoo.com (Loruhamah)


Loruhamah:
Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?


Ronny to Loruhamah:
No,there isn't. There is no such thing or place,as a hell of
fiery,eternal torment.


rpbc:
Ronny... that's quite an absolute statement to make. I hear discussions
like this and I wonder to what end they serve. In the first place
whatever we believe about it won't change it one way or the other but
secondly, why would one chose not to believe there is hell, whatever it
may be which, if it exists, the concept we would have will certainly be
constrained by language itself.

End of being is in itself quite an abstract... like how big can big get
or how small can small be, or before or after time begins or ends.  
Some my argue the reference point but we assume a being is created at
conception.. that word created, a power/attribute given us having His
likeness, able to procreate.   You're saying that power in His
likeness to procreate, the result, a being, would just end. Maybe....
but we don't know. Lot's of thing suggest it goes on. Whatever hell
might be one aspect it would seem to have would be having certain
knowledge of God and never, ever in an eternity of time being able to
visit Him or His place of Being in person or Spirit.... analogy fails
but something akin to having eyes but no light, ears but no sound,
desire but no love forever and ever. In other words, cut off all the
while fully aware it is consequence of one's own choice.

Ronny to RPBC:
Oh,I think you're confusing me here,with the folks who believe,in
annihilation? That is,at the end of time,if you're not just so-so,God
will simply burn you up,to smoke and ashes and you will be no more. I
know there are some people,who believe that way;but I,in no way,believe
that way. No,what I now believe on this, goes by such names,as Christian
universalist. The simple belief,that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the
whole world,that by the cross he has redeemed us all back to God and
that before all is said and done,each person will know/ understand
that,as each,is born from above by God. So,under this way of
believing,all people will be saved by God/ Jesus Christ and there is no
hell,of fiery, eternal torment. Which is a completely different
thing,from those who believe in annihilation or that at the end,God will
simply burn some people up and they will be no more.


RPBC to Ronny:

On the other hand... if it's fear of hell that keeps one on the
'reservation' of avoiding God's punishment it would seem a rather hollow
relationship... less free will seeking the everlasting love of God than
avoiding his wrath. Like a son who out of love and respect for his
father would never bring him shame or personal disappointment, not
merely to avoid his father's anger.

Ronny to RPBC:
Indeed,what sort of relationship does a person have with God,if it's
based on fear? And since God saved me,when I was 16 years old,since
then,I have known that God/Jesus Christ loved me. :-) Well, God proved
that to me,when God saved me. Yet,I know may people in church, many
Christians,are taught to relate to God,on a basis of fear. Or they
better,do just so-so,or they will go to hell. Or others are taught to
tell people,well God/Jesus Christ loves you;but if you don't believe us
and do as we say,then God has prepared a hell of fiery,eternal torment
for you. And that,is the gosple/"good news" of Jesus Christ,that many
churchs preach and teach.


RPBC to Ronny:

For my own self... and this might be foolish... I hardly ever think
about hell. If it exists, which on the face of it seems to be true, what
difference would it make what we thought about it.   God on the other
hand... God is everything to think about, it's there where we check our
souls.

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 5:09pm (CST-2) From:
gypsi...@gmail.com (Gypsie)

Ronny to Gypsy:
Gypsy,you mean you believe,that I'm a scottie fly by? A believer in and
follower of,Gene and Melissa Scott?! :-) I'm just smiling here,because
if that's what your're saying/believing,then it is funny! :-) And if
that's not what you mean above,then I apoligise beforehand,for my
understanding your words wrong!

But for me,I'm simply Ronny and yes,I'm from Texas. :-) Now,I haven't
watched Gene Scott in years. Nor Melissa. And when I did,it was just a
hit or miss thing,while I happened to be channel surfing. And what
little I can remember,is that I did agree with him,on somethings; but
it's been so long back,I couldn't even honestly tell you,what?! (ha)
And,I do remember,I did like his brashness. Well,
he just seemed very open and honest. A lot moreso,than preachers I was
aquainted with! (ha) :-) I also thought,that in someways,he was nuts!
:-)

As for myself,as I've said,I'm simply Ronny from Texas. And it so
happens,that I'm a saved/born from above child of God. That coming
about,when God saved me, when I was 16 years old. What can I say?
Well,that I love God,because God/Jesus Christ first loved me and God
proved that to me,when God saved me! :-) So,by the grace of God,I'm a
believer in and follower of,Jesus Christ. :-)

Oh and I should also say,I like people. :-) I'm extremely interested in
persons and groups of people and their ways and the whys of that? Or,as
my Mom once told me,I was born,both talking and asking questions! :-)
LoL

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 5:40pm (CST-2) From:
studi...@gmail.com (studio)

studio:
Nice statement rpbc..... to add to that I would say it's an expressed
view of one Ronny on afgs.........I can deal with his view given that he
has the ability to spell correctly and do some thinking for himself as
it seems.
He would be on my retarded list if he claim the absurdity that "Heaven
and Hell" are right here on Earth and we make our daily decisions to
live in bliss or blunder. Ever heard some numbnuts say shit like that?
It usually occurs in dive bars or on blind dates.

Ronny to Studio:
The only thing,that's bugging me right now,is the possibility that RPBC
is confusing me with people,who believe in annihilation? And that,I in
no way agree with or believe in. I am not an annihilationist in
belief,like I understand Herbert W. Armstrong and the Church of God/COG
and someothers were/are. No, in belief on somethings,I'm what's called a
Christian universalists. And here's a good, short definition of
that,that I will put below. One I found,on the tentmaker.org website.


"Christian Universalism
Ultimate Reconciliation in Christ


What is Christian Universalism? Christian universalism is a belief in
the simple Bible truth that Jesus Christ is the "Lamb who takes away the
sin of the world." He is the promised Messiah of whom the prophets of
the Old Covenant foresaw; He is the Savior of the world, He is the
"Second Adam," through Whom all mankind will be restored to God's
original image, He is the only way to the Father, the only begotton Son
of God, and that there is no other way to everlasting,"aionian" life but
through Him. We believe He is king and judge of the universe, and owner
of all Creation, and that His purpose for the ages (aions) is to bring
all things under His government and reconciled with Himself.

We believe that in His substitutionary death and resurrection He became
the "Lamb who takes away the sin of the world." As Christ Himself said,
"If I be lifted up (crucified) I will draw all men to me" (as also
prophesied in Psalm 22). His Name is the One before which every man,
woman and child, from all of human history will bow before and declare
that He is Lord. At that day, the prophesied "restoration of all things"
shall come to pass, and of the increase of His government and peace
there shall be no end.

This view is also known as Ultimate reconciliation or Universal
Salvation, which is a very different thing than Unitarian Universalism."


http://www.tentmaker.org

http://www.tentmaker.org/universalism.htm

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 5:54pm (CST-2) From:
studi...@gmail.com (studio)

gypsie: You guys are being sucked in by a scottie fly by, I'm jest
trying to figure out who this person is, but trust me, FLAP FLAP SWAK!
right Tx?

studio:
Well now, most if not all scotties truly believe in a literal "hell".
Without the fixation of hell on their minds, none of the Scott doctrine
and scripture twisting would be effective.
There would be lower amount of tithing and offerings. there would also
be a less willing participation in volunteering and especially the
dreaded call from "THE VOICE OF FAITH CO-ORDINATOR"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Besides gypsie, you're the one who gave an open invitation to scotties
just a few days ago!
If they feel they have to mask themselves to participate, then so be it.

Ronny to Studio:
So Gypsie does believe,that I'm some sort of scottly fly by,as she put
it?! :-) Ah,I'm not laughting at her;but I am having to smile and
laugh,if that's what she meant! :-)

And as you now know,I simply believe,
that before all is said and done,God will save everyone and that by
way,of Jesus Christ and the cross. And that there is no hell,of
eternal,fiery torment,for anyone to go to.

And well,since you did bring up the tithe,I will say this on it. I don't
believe,in the 10% tithe or any such tithe,as most preachers I
know,preach/teach on that. The ones I'm thinking of,say you're stealing
from God,if you don't give at least a 10% tithe,to the church you're a
member of. I believe,such teaching is completely unscriptural,for the
New Testament church/body of Jesus Christ. I simply believe,that each
Christian,each born from above child of God,should give as they
determine in their heart to give. Not by compulsion,for as the scripture
well says,God loves a cheerful giver.

Now don't get me wrong,as I think Christians should give;but I don't see
it as any of the preachers business,to demand a 10% tithe and or try to
guilt trip people, into giving. But I also have no problem,
with a preacher receiving a salary. For if he or she is preaching the
gospel/good news of Jesus Christ,then others should support them,in
that. And that could easily include a salary,for their basic needs.

I also believe,that Christians in various areas should be supportive of
the poorer Christians among them,as well as those they know of,further
off. But what they and any local Christians give,as to the amount,that's
between them and God. They should give,as God moves them to give and
not,as some preacher tries to guilt trip them to give.

And you don't want to get me started,on the subject of big,fancy church
buildings,
etc, (ha) :-) which I see,as a flaming waste of money and resources!
Such as some local churchs here,whose auditoriums are twice as high,as
need be! What bothers me about that,is all the extra expense/money
needed,to heat and cool such a space! In other words,what bugs me on
this part,is the sheer waste of such buildings! OK,I told you,you didn't
want to get me started,on this part! :-) LoL

OK,another deal of mine. :-) If any preacher says,the Christian is to
give a 10% tithe or else,is stealing from God,etc- then I would remind
that preacher,that John the Baptist,he taught a 50% tithe! :-) Yep,he
did! :-) For he said such things as, if you have two coats,give one to
someone,who has none! Bingo! That's a 50% tithe! :-) So,to start the
ball rolling,we could have all preachers,of the 10% tithe, first give to
the poor,50% of,everything they have! :-) Well,anyone like my idea,on
this part? :-) (BG!)

[Ronny TX]

> Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb

> 16, 2012, 2:15pm (CST-2) From:
> studi...@gmail.com (studio)

> On Feb 16, 1:37 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net
> (Ronny TX) wrote:
>
>
> Ronny to Studio:
> I was once in a cult. It was called
> Baptist. Or at least,it was one
> branch,of the Baptist denomination. So
> really,what denominations,are not cult
> like,to some degree?
>
>

> Studio to Ronny:

> studio:
> Ronny, I read you posts above about your
> time in that denomination and how you
> had the doctrines, like formulations to
> rely on instead of searching the
> scriptures for yourself. Well, like you
> said that's the way "cults" operate.

Ronny to Studio:
True and in my particular Baptist cult,as you well put it,I could not
search the scriptures,for myself. I wasn't at all,free to do that. The
preacher,Sunday School teacher or other church elder spoke,that was
taught as the same,as God speaking. So,you were not to question such and
if you disagreed,you were simply let to know,that you were disagreeing
with God and in effect,calling God a liar! Well,I grew up from an
infant,in that particular local church. And I'm not sure,what if much I
took in,before say 12 years old? But at some point,I started "getting"
the above,from the pulpit.

Sometimes,I don't much like to talk about that time and sometimes,I do.


> Studio to Ronny:

> But not all denominations unlike cults
> have a hidden agenda to abuse the dumb
> sheep into emptying their bank accounts
> and cutting them off from those who love
> them like friends and family members.
> some cults if not all, need a total
> control of the person/ cult member to be
> effective in getting their money without
> outside influence questioning the
> allocation of the monies.
> Funny how denominations nowa days are
> driven by the government to morph into
> corporations one way or another. You
> might say yeah but they are non profit
> organizations........... even non profit
> orgs by design, are a money making
> entity.

> This was the hardest thing about The
> Scott Cult. We had our freedom, at least
> we thought it was freedom. We could
> drink and cuss and smoke and fuck around
> and all the indulgences we once thought
> were taboo became our battle cry of
> Freedom in Christ, saved by grace etc.
> Everyone else was anathema and we were
> labeled uncommon soldiers and chosen
> before the world's were formed to follow
> "God's man", the domata for this end
> time, Gene Scott.

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 2:15pm (CST-2) From:
studi...@gmail.com (studio)

On Feb 16, 1:37 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:


Ronny to Studio:
I was once in a cult. It was called Baptist. Or at least,it was one
branch,of the Baptist denomination. So really,what denominations,are not
cult like,to some degree?

Studio to Ronny:

studio:
Ronny, I read you posts above about your time in that denomination and
how you had the doctrines, like formulations to rely on instead of
searching the scriptures for yourself. Well, like you said that's the
way "cults" operate.
But not all denominations unlike cults have a hidden agenda to abuse the
dumb sheep into emptying their bank accounts and cutting them off from
those who love them like friends and family members. some cults if not
all, need a total control of the person/ cult member to be effective in
getting their money without outside influence questioning the allocation
of the monies.
Funny how denominations nowa days are driven by the government to morph
into corporations one way or another. You might say yeah but they are
non profit organizations........... even non profit orgs by design, are
a money making entity.
This was the hardest thing about The Scott Cult. We had our freedom, at
least we thought it was freedom. We could drink and cuss and smoke and
fuck around and all the indulgences we once thought were taboo became
our battle cry of Freedom in Christ, saved by grace etc.
Everyone else was anathema and we were labeled uncommon soldiers and
chosen before the world's were formed to follow "God's man", the domata
for this end time, Gene Scott.

Ronny to Studio:
As I've said,I seldom watched Gene Scott in the past and I remember so
little,of what I did watch;but what you say here, about the freedoms he
preached/taught? In that,did he never preach/teach,on the following
scripture? Or did he just ignore such?


"1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may
abound?
   2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any
longer therein?
   3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus
Christ were baptized into his death?
   4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that
like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.
   5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his
death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
   6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the
body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
   7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
   8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also
live with him:
   9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over him.
   10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he
liveth, he liveth unto God.
   11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto
sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
   12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye
should obey it in the lusts thereof.
   13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of
unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that
are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of
righteousness unto God.
   14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not
under the law, but under grace.
   15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law,
but under grace? God forbid.
   16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to
obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or
of obedience unto righteousness?
   17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye
have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered
you.
   18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of
righteousness.
   19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of
your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness
and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants
to righteousness unto holiness.
   20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from
righteousness.
   21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now
ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
   22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
   23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal
life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:1,23

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 5:40pm (CST-2) From:
studi...@gmail.com (studio)

studio:
Nice statement rpbc..... to add to that I would say it's an expressed
view of one Ronny on afgs.........I can deal with his view given that he
has the ability to spell correctly and do some thinking for himself as
it seems.
He would be on my retarded list if he claim the absurdity that "Heaven
and Hell" are right here on Earth and we make our daily decisions to
live in bliss or blunder. Ever heard some numbnuts say shit like that?
It usually occurs in dive bars or on blind dates.

Ronny to Studio:
Well,in a very real sense,I would say,as a born from above child of
God,that yes,I am in heaven on earth,in the hear and now. Do I mean by
that,I have no problems,no hurts,no nothing bad? No,I don't mean that,at
all. For I have all of that too,just as all people do. But what God has
given,in my lifetime and life,is my knowing,that all things are well,no
matter what. That is,I know God/Jesus Christ loves me and it's from
that,that I love God in return. And flowing out from God's love for
me,is my love for all other people. That not from or because of me;but
because of God's love for me. And since God has shown/proven this to
me,in my life and lifetime,therefore,I am secure. I'm secure in the
knowledge,that no matter what comes my way,it is of God and God, is in
full control of everything! :-) In other words,I'm in the best of hands.
God's hand! :-) And no matter what comes,it is from God,for my best and
for the best of others.

Now I'm thinking I said that,as I wanted to? Though at times,I tend to
want to put such better,as in even perfectly! :-) But then,I'm not quite
there yet! :-) (BG!)

But the main thing,I'm trying to stress here,is my utter and complete
confidence and trust,in God. And my confidence,it springs from the
fact,that I know God/
Jesus Christ loves me and that proven to me by God,in this lifetime. So
in that sense,yes,I am in heaven on earth,at this very time. And I will
add,that yes,my life has had and does have things in it,that I just as
soon,it didn't! (ha) LoL But I also know,that come what may,God is in
full control of everything and I am safe,in God's hands! And no one and
nothing,can take that away from me. :-) Why? Because it was God,who
gifted me,with such! :-)

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 5:56pm (CST-2) From:
mthr...@yahoo.com (babyshoes)

Babyshoes:

when you look at earth it is a beautiful place..you wouldn't think that
horror goes on there, but it does..

Ronny to BBS:
Sad;but true. Yet,I am also reminded,how am I,how are any of us,to truly
know and appreciate good,unless we also know and experience,evil? Just a
thought. Just something,to think on.

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 5:58pm (CST-2) From:
gypsi...@gmail.com (Gypsie)

On Feb 16, 5:54 pm, studio <studios...@gmail.com> wrote:


gypsie: You guys are being sucked in by a scottie fly by, I'm jest
trying to figure out who this person is, but trust me, FLAP FLAP SWAK!
right Tx?

studio:
Well now, most if not all scotties truly believe in a literal "hell".
Without the fixation of hell on their minds, none of the Scott doctrine
and scripture twisting would be effective.
There would be lower amount of tithing and offerings. there would also
be a less willing participation in volunteering and especially the
dreaded call from "THE VOICE OF FAITH CO-ORDINATOR"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Besides gypsie, you're the one who gave an open invitation to scotties
just a few days ago!
If they feel they have to mask themselves to participate, then so be it.


gypsie: not to fret studio, I am surely being entertained. Jest
pointing out the obvious

Ronny to Gypsie:
I'm going to have to bite on this one and ask you,how are you being
entertained? :-) And honestly,why would you believe, that I'm a believer
in and follower of,Gene Scott?

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Thu, Feb 16, 2012, 5:57pm (CST-2) From:
b_...@hotmail.com (rpbc)

studio:
Nice statement rpbc..... to add to that I would say it's an expressed
view of one Ronny on afgs.........I can deal with his view given that he
has the ability to spell correctly and do some thinking for himself as
it seems.
He would be on my retarded list if he claim the absurdity that "Heaven
and Hell" are right here on Earth and we make our daily decisions to
live in bliss or blunder. Ever heard some numbnuts say shit like that?
It usually occurs in dive bars or on blind dates.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

RPBC to Studio:

rpbc:
Well.. depending on how 'blond' the date is I might go along to get
along. Other than that it's too retarded to even want to converse with.
  About Ronny, I'm not sure he's thinking for himself unless it has
something to do with avoidance, then it's more about thinking of instead
of for himself. Either way he has put some thought to it and while
spelling doesn't change the meaning it sure affects the orientation for
most readers.

Gypsie.... I think the fly by is highly probable but that's okay, the
exchange is for the mice that might be watching.

Ronny to RPBC:
Onething,that I put right up front,is that in no way,do I think I know
and understand everything. And I will add,it is sure proof to me,that a
person is wrong on somethings,if they happen to agree with me,on
everything! :-)

And onething,that I have encouraged people to do,is to simply think with
the mind,that God gave them. And I'm still unsure,as to the extent,that
any given person,can do this? Yet still,I encourage people to simply
think,with the mind God gave them. To do that and not "think" with the
mind of another person or persons. That is,don't let someone else,do
your thinking for you. Think for yourself,search out for yourself,study
on a matter for yourself. Ask God to guide you and show you,etc. And the
very ones,who would damn me,for my saying,think with your own God given
mind? Why,I would think, those would be the people,who only want us to
think,just as they do and that exactly,as they think. But then,those
people aren't God,they aren't Jesus Christ and they weren't on the
cross,for us. So,who we trust and follow,should be God/Jesus Christ. Not
mere,sinful human beings,as the rest of us are. And of course,that last
group also takes in,all religious leaders,be they Catholic,
Protestant or whatever.

[geraldkrug]

Hell is real MY unlucky friends.

Have you ever stood at your first fall from grace?
I know those who have and they still say hell is a place.
Hell's where you burn to have another chance and theres none
and hell is the convict who can no longer drink from the well
hell burns and sears in the beings mind now never at rest
hell is the super rich who are hell on Earth.

[babyshoes]

On Feb 16, 2:15 pm, studio <studios...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 1:37 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ronny to Studio:
> > I was once in a cult. It was called Baptist. Or at least,it was one
> > branch,of the Baptist denomination. So really,what denominations,are not
> > cult like,to some degree?
>

> .

and the way he did it (Melissa to) was to kick the law in the ass...
Jesus came as grace with a price of blood (his life) to restore the
grace that was before..but Jesus did not take away from the law..Jesus
said he won't change a bit of it!
Adam only had one law..and grace was there but he couldn't get to that
tree..

after Adam.. the law was there but vague to most..they didn't break
the law but they sinned "in the sight of God"

God gave the commandments (law) for the people..the "many"

Jesus came and restored grace..for what ? sin? NO! to return to the
law.

see Jesus (grace personified) was before and Jesus (grace) was
after...
(he who comes before me, was after me...kinda thing...

lets say you follow Gene Scott..while he follows Christ...
Gene Scott said he was tired od sinning..but he didn't stop..did he?

looks like he was caught in his sins..unless this was to wake you
up..to the end of grace..or still time to repent and be saved..I
wouldn't say for sure..when as long as there is life..there is hope..


(but you how are you doing with your corrupt nature..are you still
living on the edge..)

Churches are filled with sinners, naturally..

but are you sinning in the sight of the lord..still...

yes..?

but some have stopped for the most part..

[geraldkrug]

You try getting away with something in downtown Los Angeles,
impossible.


So the lesson is in us naturally now from over generations.

Goodness won't be forgotten, just played with, like writing a script
over and over.

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Fri, Feb 17, 2012, 10:43am (CST-2) From:
gypsi...@gmail.com (Gypsie)

On Feb 1, 6:35 pm, Loruhamah <hurricane...@yahoo.com> wrote:


Loruhamah:
I ran across this lecture about hell and found it to be interesting.
Basically, this guy says hell is not eternal punishment, and that if one
is sent there, they just do not exist any longer.  Does anyone know
any scripture that is contrary to those presented here?  He makes a
lot of sense but it isn't the concept of hell that I've been taught all
my life.  However, I am open minded and willing to learn something new
if it fits with the Bible.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RestoredCOG?v=ah6eu01q8Ng&feature=pyv

Gypsie to Loruhamah:
doesn't ronny tx read like reggie keith, piano and teacher on planet
scott


Ronny to Gypsie:
Oh my,now you've got my curiousity up and have given me more work to do!
:-( Must got to Google search and find out more,about this Reggie Keith!
:-) LoL I suppose,I can find out more about him,by just putting in
Reggie Keith and Gene Scott,at Google search? Might try that?

And BTW and so I won't have to go looking it up,can you please tell me
the name of the church,where Melissa Scott preaches now? All I can
remember right now,is that way back when,when I was watching Gene Scott
some on TV,the church was some big,huge building,that I believe,had
previously belonged to a Presbyterian group?

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Fri, Feb 17, 2012, 3:32pm (CST-2) From:
gd...@hotmail.com (geraldkrug)

Ronny to Gerald:
Perhaps,you would like to see some pictures of hell? There are
several,on the following webpage.

http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellPhotos/

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Fri, Feb 17, 2012, 5:07pm (CST-2) From:
mthr...@yahoo.com (babyshoes)

On Feb 16, 2:15 pm, studio <studios...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 16, 1:37 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:

Ronny to Studio:
I was once in a cult. It was called Baptist. Or at least,it was one
branch,of the Baptist denomination. So really,what denominations,are not
cult like,to some degree?

BBS:

and the way he did it (Melissa to) was to kick the law in the ass...
Jesus came as grace with a price of blood (his life) to restore the
grace that was before..but Jesus did not take away from the law..Jesus
said he won't change a bit of it!
Adam only had one law..and grace was there but he couldn't get to that
tree..
after Adam.. the law was there but vague to most..they didn't break the
law but they sinned "in the sight of God"
God gave the commandments (law) for the people..the "many"
Jesus came and restored grace..for what ? sin? NO! to return to the law.
see Jesus (grace personified) was before and Jesus (grace) was after...
(he who comes before me, was after me...kinda thing...
lets say you follow Gene Scott..while he follows Christ... Gene Scott
said he was tired od sinning..but he didn't stop..did he?
looks like he was caught in his sins..unless this was to wake you up..to
the end of grace..or still time to repent and be saved..I wouldn't say
for sure..when as long as there is life..there is hope..
(but you how are you doing with your corrupt nature..are you still
living on the edge..)
Churches are filled with sinners, naturally..
but are you sinning in the sight of the lord..still...
yes..?
but some have stopped for the most part..

Ronny to BBS:
Galatians 3
  "1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not
obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set
forth, crucified among you?
   2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the
works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
   3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made
perfect by the flesh?
   4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
   5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh
miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the
hearing of faith?
   6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for
righteousness.
   7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are
the children of Abraham.
   8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the
heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying,
In thee shall all nations be blessed.
   9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful
Abraham.
   10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the
curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all
things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
   11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God,
it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
   12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them
shall live in them.
   13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made
a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a
tree:
   14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles
through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit
through faith.
   15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a
man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth
thereto.
   16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith
not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is
Christ.
   17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before
of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years
after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
   18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of
promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
   19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of
transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
   20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
   21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for
if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily
righteousness should have been by the law.
   22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the
promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
   23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up
unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
   24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto
Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
   25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a
schoolmaster.
   26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
   27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put
on Christ.
   28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor
free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus.
   29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
according to the promise." Galatians 3:1,29

[rpbc]

rpbc:

"Oh,I think you're confusing me here,with the folks who believe,in
annihilation? "

Ronny.... I didn't attached any kind of packaged believe to you, just
thought it rather brash to make an absolute statement that hell,
whatever it might be, doesn't exist since we can't really know and
given the speculative assumptions you've given for not believing in
it, especially since the Bible is full of references to some kind of
eternal unpleasantness for certain souls of the earth, it seemed a bit
of wishful thinking that is guiding your thinking on the subject...
maybe even, and maybe even most likely, a reaction to your upbringing
on the subject. Honestly... after all this denominational stuff, and
he said, and so and so believes this, and Calvinists that and Baptists
something else I'm reminded of hippies, or gen X, or punk, New Age,
Peace Now, Church of Ronny, or whatever grouping appears trying to
reinvent the world, first thing they do is acquire a 'new' (out)look,
which becomes just another uniform/denomination not really unlike the
one they are attempting to discard and another round of punishment is
in order for those who simply want to live their life, and in this
conversation, relate/commune with God believing with surety that life
is worth living and we have an eternal home with our Creator Whose
love is not unlike that of a good earthly father, many of whom would
give their life for their son or daughter, wife too. Speaking of that
higher calling... a thing worth living for is a thing worth dying
for. All this heavy doctrinaire talk, for me, tends to take the joy
out of IT. I think you're following the (an) outline handed you from
early on, as though following a prescript thinking you've developed it
because of word changes. I'm quite sure you mean well. Hell.... if
everybody comes to the God realization and is 'saved', the concept of
hell would be nonsensical, which is how you dismiss it. Truth is,
vengeance, apart from justice, is the Lord's and we are to have no
part of it for it will, observationally true, destroy the soul often
causing a person to become the thing they hate.... so, it being God's
exclusive territory, hell isn't on my mind even though I would say, if
simply asked, that I do believe it exists, whatever it might be.

[Daniel]

Daniel: I think Hell is eternal from a biblical standpoint but all
the fire and brimstone to me represents the soul in a state of
desolation where there is no hope only regret, regret on what might
have been because at the white throne Judgement ever one that has not
been saved will stand before God to answer for there sins before a
Holy God and than there will be the regret not just a momentary regret
but a eternal regret, any kind of physical torment pales in comparison
to the mental anguish of what might have been. I think fear of Hell is
a good starting point for a lost person when it comes to salvation
(Like Jonathen Edwards sermon Sinners in the hands of a Angry God)
Once a person is saved though you are right why dwell on it to
much....We should cry out Abba Father, and dwell on God love, grace
and peace...

>
> studio:
> Nice statement rpbc..... to add to that I would say it's an expressed
> view of one Ronny on afgs.........I can deal with his view given that he
> has the ability to spell correctly and do some thinking for himself as
> it seems.

> - Show quoted text -
>

Daniel: Hey Studio I dont always spell correctly can I still stick
around? :)

[geraldkrug]

No you don't get it.

We are to rail against the opression of the system which does Gods
work by condemning others before God does or might not do we don't
know.

I know a law must be observed but to destroy lives for simple sin is
error.

[geraldkrug]

You act as if you don't think at all.
Like I had to go through with family members who just couldn't break
the mainstream idiocy
until I forced them to.

[Weatherman]

On Feb 17, 2:37 am, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Wed, Feb 15, 2012, 6:33am (CST-2) From:

> the.sizeofah...@yahoo.com (Weatherman)

> there is no hell,of fiery,eternal torment.http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/http://tentmaker.org/http://lovewins.us/

WM-Well so how about "outer darkness" where there is weeping and
gnashing of teeth? Thats mentioned several times buy Christ. And the
Lake of Fire sure gotta burn!


Oh here it is! "depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels".....Jesus Christ.

[Weatherman]

On Feb 17, 10:31 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Fri, Feb 17, 2012, 5:07pm (CST-2) From:

> mthrb...@yahoo.com (babyshoes)

WM-You know, I read this section of scripture and the prior chapter
were Paul rides Peter fairly hard and wonder were Pauls memory is at?
Considering that he Paul was the first to attempt to make a bridge to
the Jews buy circumcising a gentile. And by so doing broke the
agreement he made with peter at the first not to circumcise gentiles
to begin with.

Not taking sides here really, but just think of the problems paul was
causing by openly busting peter in a letter that was probably past
around to other churches. Anyone that knew the whole story would think
Paul was ass covering hard and those that didnt would think Peter was
going south on everybody.

Paul says "if I yet pleased men, I should not be a servant of God".
But thats what he did on the issue of circumsision early on anyway.
Now here hes all fired up with rightious indignation at peter and some
others as if he had always done things the right way. I suppose we
will just have to keep in mind that Paul was as human as the others.

[babyshoes]

On Feb 17, 10:31 pm, Acts17...@webtv.net (Ronny TX) wrote:
> Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?
> Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Fri, Feb 17, 2012, 5:07pm (CST-2) From:

> mthrb...@yahoo.com (babyshoes)

Ronnie<10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the

curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in
all
things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God,
it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. >

maybe you misunderstood
me I'm not talking about man made laws, religious or government..
the two commandments..the short version of the ten commandments..

Jesus felt sorry for the multitude..and Jesus wants no one to go to
hell..
there is a peaceful pleasant place for those who believe..without
seeing or knowing..for those with out faith..

but these aren't carried around in the bosom of Jesus..

Jesus said why call me Lord,Lord (lord of lords) if you don't do what
I say..
is what Jesus says the law..

Jesus says don't put your wife away..it is adultery..

thou shall not commit adultery..

do unto others as you would of had done unto you..

The catholic church tried its best to uphold this..

It took a king to change/add another Christian religion to
accommodate
putting away a wife..

a new branch..one that Jesus would cut off..wouldn't he..

why would Jesus bring this up (adultry) if grace was to cover it?

and if its not going to be brought up in the judgment..

and this is just one of the things/law Jesus spoke of..

every word that came out of Jesus mouth your to live by
as long as you call him God...

and if you don't call him God all you have is the law..
and that law is what we fall short of..law breakers...always..

but with Jesus your forgiven..
your failing is not a reproach
you see what you are..
maybe it's that you will always fall short
as long as you live..
but your desire..
is to be perfected in Jesus..

(Jesus who knows full well the strength
of temptation..and our weakness for it..)

redeems us..clean slate..but the law is still..there..
a measuring rod a smoking/burning flax that will never be put out.
not one tat.., till he send forth judgment unto victory



again I'm not talking about the laws of man..prophets, priests...and
false judges..

[Ronny TX]

Re: Is There An Ever-Burning Hell?

Group: alt.fan.gene-scott Date: Sat, Feb 18, 2012, 12:34am (CST-2) From:

----------
RPBC to Ronny:

rpbc:
"Oh,I think you're confusing me here,with the folks who believe,in
annihilation? "

Ronny.... I didn't attached any kind of packaged believe to you, just
thought it rather brash to make an absolute statement that hell,
whatever it might be, doesn't exist since we can't really know and given
the speculative assumptions you've given for not believing in it,
especially since the Bible is full of references to some kind of eternal
unpleasantness for certain souls of the earth,

Ronny to RPBC:
Hell,as in that traditionally taught by Roman Catholicism and
Protestantism,I have no doubts at all,that we can say,
such a hell as that,does not exist and that God/Jesus Christ,created no
such thing.
But yet,yes,you are right in a sense,that the Bible has quite a few
references,to eternal hell,etc.. That is,some Bible translations do and
some don't. Some Bible translations,in fact,do not have the word hell in
them,as in a hell,of fiery, eternal torment.


RPBC to Ronny:

it seemed a bit of wishful thinking that is guiding your thinking on the
subject... maybe even, and maybe even most likely, a reaction to your
upbringing on the subject.

Ronny to RPBC:
No,I can honestly say,that isn't so. For until a little more than 2
years ago,I was still completely believing in hell,just as I was taught
that,in church. Just as I had truly believed such,was in the Bible. Now,
I simply don't believe such is in the Bible, as it was first written,in
Hebrew and Greek. Of course,I knew nothing about this,until around 2
years ago. When I first ran upon some Christians who believed, that God
was going to save everyone and that there was no hell,of fiery,eternal
torment. Then,I simply began reading what they had to say on these
matters,
why they said such and what scriptures if any,they had to back up such?
So,I read, thought and studied a lot,on the matter and could then
see,that yes,these people are right,in how they believe on this part.


RPBC to Ronny:

Honestly... after all this denominational stuff, and he said, and so and
so believes this, and Calvinists that and Baptists something else I'm
reminded of hippies, or gen X, or punk, New Age, Peace Now, Church of
Ronny, or whatever grouping appears trying to reinvent the world, first
thing they do is acquire a 'new' (out)look, which becomes just another
uniform/denomination not really unlike the one they are attempting to
discard and another round of punishment is in order for those who simply
want to live their life, and in this conversation, relate/commune with
God believing with surety that life is worth living and we have an
eternal home with our Creator Whose love is not unlike that of a good
earthly father, many of whom would give their life for their son or
daughter, wife too. Speaking of that higher calling... a thing worth
living for is a thing worth dying for. All this heavy doctrinaire talk,
for me, tends to take the joy out of IT. I think you're following the
(an) outline handed you from early on, as though following a prescript
thinking you've developed it because of word changes. I'm quite sure you
mean well.  

Ronny to RPBC:
Now that's a thought. Can you imagine, God our Father,burning any of us
up,to a crisp and or making for and leaving us in, a hell of
fiery,eternal torment? Would any normal,human parent do that? Of course
not. But yet,the most of what we call Catholicism and
Protestantism,tells us that God our Father,will do that,to uncounted
billions of people. And they say,their proof for that,is right there,in
the Bible? Well,are they right or are they wrong? And the only way to
find that out, is to ask God to guide us,read,study and think on the
matter.


RPBC to Ronny:

Hell.... if everybody comes to the God realization and is 'saved', the
concept of hell would be nonsensical, which is how you dismiss it.

Ronny to RPBC:
Right! :-) Or at least in part. For what need of a hell,of fiery,eternal
torment,
since Jesus Christ has already reedeemed us all back,to God the Father
and in time,God's time,each person will know and understand that,as
they're born from above by God? So yes,this part comes first.


RPBC to Ronny:

Truth is, vengeance, apart from justice, is the Lord's and we are to
have no part of it for it will, observationally true, destroy the soul
often causing a person to become the thing they hate.... so, it being
God's exclusive territory, hell isn't on my mind even though I would
say, if simply asked, that I do believe it exists, whatever it might be.

Ronny to RPBC:
But then you're saying,you do believe hell exists;but you're not at all
sure,what exactly it is? Yet Roman Catholic and Protestant
leadership,they've been very plain,about what they say hell is and they
say,their proof for that,is found right in the Bible. So the question
is,is it or isn't it,are they right or are they wrong? And I'm not going
to try and force anyone,to see this, as I now see it;but as time goes
by,I would ask people,to simply consider what I say,on this matter and
read some about it,on some links I might post. And if any, don't or
won't,what am I going to threaten them with? Hell? :-) (BG!!) LoL