who does Doc hate the most..OF the old guard?
J TAMELCOFF
stated that john was a betrayer. do you agree?
matt2442
> my guess he hates the singer john the most...simply because as doc
> stated that john was a betrayer. do you agree?
I couldn't possibly say who Scot hates the most , but I am sure that
John is pretty high on the list ,as he had the audacity to say that
Scott's teaching on tithing is WRONG! (Bravo John!!) I do know of one
person that I am aquainted with, who at least at one time was pretty
high on Doc's hate list. I can't name that person here though.
Leaving Gene Scott is the best thing a person can do , including
withdrawing all monetary support, as says to him that Gene Scott is
not worthy of
continued support and commitment to his ministry. Those , however ,who
were in the most prominent places when they left ,such as John Jordan,
Jake Hess ,Jim McClarty, etc, were blasted by Gene Scott from the
pulpit. Their departure was more noticable , and Gene Scott's
narcissistic ego , could not handle the public statement of his
unworthiness of their continued support to go unanswered. He had to
make it look like he was being betrayed.
Matt2442
J TAMELCOFF
Daytrip998
GE...@webtv.net (J TAMELCOFF) writes:
>do you think john jordan will ever come back to scotts church?
Why should he? He took more criticism of his good singing than
Melissa will ever take from her DREADFUL singing.
matt2442
> do you think john jordan will ever come back to scotts church?
I hope not. John is much better off without Gene Scott. I hope and
pray that he has found a place where he can grow in his relationship
with Jesus Christ , without Scott getting in the way, and constantly
beating him down for getting into it too much.
Matt2442
mnapol...@msn.com
> my guess he hates the singer john the most...simply because as doc
> stated that john was a betrayer. do you agree?
i was a low leval staffer over 10 years ago and as of a few months ago
i am still banned from the church. doc refers to me as one of his
terds. he said there are only about a half dozen or so exstaffers that
are permently banned and can never be forgiven. im in an elite group
but im not proud of that in fact i feel bad i can never be forgiven. i
donot know what i did that doc hates me so much as not to be ever
forgiven. i sued him for a stress related injury but that cannot be
the reason because i never hired a lawyer and represented myself. the
other thing i did that he might be mad about was i stood in front of
his church with a sign that read , pope eugene the 1st i protest the
buts you add to grace , on one side and on the other it said,grace but
M.F.C. thats mail the fucking check. i dont know why he would be mad
at that i was only telling the truth. i guess i will never know why i
am for ever banned all i know is i came to doc with a pure heart and i
should still be there. i just cannot figure it out. any suggestions as
to why doc has label me as a terd and banned forever from his church
are welcomed
matt2442
It's good to hear from you. You did nothing that was unforgivable, and
should not be concerned any more about it. Gene Scott has the problem
,not you. Perhaps it's because you had the audacity to challenge Dr.
Scott in court and in public (with the sign) , that He can't forgive
you . If he does , it opens the door to dissention in his
congregation, which he will not allow. He told the congregation that
John Jordan had lost his place in the kingdom ,because he said Doc's
teaching on Tithing is in error.
Count your blessings. You no longer have that asshole Pharisee of the
Pharisees, getting between you and Jesus Christ. Move on. You are way
better off that he is. He will have to stand before the Lord and give
account for everyone he has ever fucked over in the name of Jesus. He
will probably have a toilet seat around his neck when he does.
Matt2442
Daniel O'Connell
"J TAMELCOFF" <GE...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28251-3F...@storefull-2315.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Nurse Edna
wrote:
>my guess he hates the singer john the most...simply because as doc
>stated that john was a betrayer. do you agree?
Of the OLD guard Sammy Lee and Ron Spann would be right up there.
Isabella
nothing but know what goes on and heard other things. I guess I am a
liabilty. He called us tumblebugs and serpents and made all sorts of
false accusations against anyone who knew anything about what is going
on down there. I never did anything to him. I don't get these
preaschers. You are not alone. Iwas wondering how things were onthe
inside of Doc's place. I always liked him and thought he and Arnold
Murray should debate.
Isabella
Daytrip998
sanda...@earthlink.net (Isabella) writes:
Care to fill us in on the goings on at Shepherd's Chapel?
jack landrum
no original sin).
Jack
matt2442
I suspected that Arnold Murray was probably similar behind the scenes
to Gene Scott. I first tuned him in just shortly after leaving Scott's
church. The first thing I noticed about him was the same attitude
"we're right and all those other "one verse Charlie's" are wrong!",
giving the impression that they are superior in teaching to all other
churches. They really are two of a kind, Murray and Scott. He also
teaches the same Lost Tribes message as Gene Scott, and sells the same
E. Raymond Capt. literature.(Pyramid, Jacob's Pillar, Stone of
Destiny, Traditions of Glastonbury ,etc.)
Is Arnold Murray still alive? I've seen someone else teaching in his
place recently.
Matt2442
Matt2442
Jon Volkoff
> I suspected that Arnold Murray was probably similar behind the scenes
> to Gene Scott. I first tuned him in just shortly after leaving Scott's
> church. The first thing I noticed about him was the same attitude
> "we're right and all those other "one verse Charlie's" are wrong!",
> giving the impression that they are superior in teaching to all other
> churches.
Since the teaching of one church can be better than another, it
stands to reason that in all the churches on earth, there exists a
church or churches with the soundest teaching available.
Therefore, it is not wrong, per se, to make the claim that one's
church has the soundest teaching available anywhere. You could
very well be that church. But it is wrong to do so if it doesn't
happen to be true, as in the case of Murray and Scott.
"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is
among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to
think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man
the measure of faith." (Romans 12:3)
Isabella
>>>>I sgree with you. I jumped from one teacher to the other. I guess
it is a comfort zone of sorts. Did you ever read Marshal Applewhite's
talk where he says the only two teachers that understand the next
level teaching were Gene Scott and Arnold Murray? I had a felllow tell
me the other day that watching Gene Scott and Arnold Murray is like
watching an awful car wreck. You know you shouldn't but you look
anyways. I have heard in my job, callers over and over say that they
listened because they could not believe Arnold Murray was calling
people stupid or idiots and telling them they can go to hell for all
he cares and then they tune in again to see if it is still going on
until they are hooked. Sort of reminds me of roller derby or
wrestling,LOL. Is Doc secret about everything like Arnold Murray is?
Isabella
Isabella
> >
> Care to fill us in on the goings on at Shepherd's Chapel?
****Well there are allegations of serious immorality floating around
and there is general suspicion over things like where he got his
doctorate, is he Christian Identity, all the money amd everything
else. There was a lot of smoke, way too much smoke from many areas
for me, so I left. He told everyone at Passover this year in Branson
that he would sue anyone who came against him and take everything they
had. Therefore I cannot say too much. They trump up lies on people
and say things like we were fired when we quit or they go and call our
friends families at work and tell them they better not try to go to
the Fall Fellowship or Pasover if they are friends with us. They make
everyone suspect of everyone else, no one can be trusted. Paranoia is
rampant. That is one goal, bloom where you are planted and never talk
about this stuff because it is gossip. Well gossip on our end but
they claim to hate the net but have "their internet people reporting
in" and they want to know everything we hear to defend Pastor Murray.
He puts the word out over the air and his minions take action. There
is one gal who is after everyone that left. She even put on her
homepage her destiny was to take care of us. Get rid of the
"tumblebugs" no matter what.
One pastor whose church left the studying with Shepherds Chapel, who
has excellent works and fruits of the spirit is Billy Elkins.
www.forestviewchapel.com. He is sincere and tried at every level to
be a real pastor. He is not a tv preacher. It is really a hard thing
when you loved the Murrays like family and trusted them completly.
Foolish.
Isabella
matt2442
> it is a comfort zone of sorts. Did you ever read Marshal Applewhite's
> talk where he says the only two teachers that understand the next
> level teaching were Gene Scott and Arnold Murray? I had a felllow tell
> me the other day that watching Gene Scott and Arnold Murray is like
> watching an awful car wreck. You know you shouldn't but you look
> anyways. I have heard in my job, callers over and over say that they
> listened because they could not believe Arnold Murray was calling
> people stupid or idiots and telling them they can go to hell for all
> he cares and then they tune in again to see if it is still going on
> until they are hooked. Sort of reminds me of roller derby or
> wrestling,LOL. Is Doc secret about everything like Arnold Murray is?
> Isabella
They seem to be two of a kind. It sounds like Arnold Murray is as
abusive as Gene Scott, and even more vindictive towards people who
leave his church. His ego can't handle that people would leave his
church. Look up the post called "narcissist abuser" in this newsgroup.
I posted it about Gene Scott ,as it is a good description of him ,but
it also seems to fit Murray as well.
Matt2442
Isabella
> place recently.
>
> Matt2442
> Matt2442
Yes he is very much alive. He has a relationship with Loretta Lynn.
He does a 1 hour live daily broadcast at 2:00 everyday of the week
except the third week of the month and teaches the first and third
Sunday of the month down in the church at 10:30 AM. He has two sons,
Dennis and David. They both teach at times. Dennis does the books
while DAvid does "special studies". He also holds a Fall Fellowship
meeting and Passover service.
Isabella
matt2442
> > >
> > Care to fill us in on the goings on at Shepherd's Chapel?
>
> ****Well there are allegations of serious immorality floating around
> and there is general suspicion over things like where he got his
> doctorate, is he Christian Identity, all the money amd everything
> else.
The Christian Identity thing would have to do with the Lost Tribes
teaching he does. He is like Gene Scott in that respect ,although
Scott manages to avoid the racist overtones that the Identity people
are into. I don't know whether Murray does that or not. It seems that
where this doctrine is being taught, there is an grandiose ,
narcissistic ego associated with it (Armstrong, Scott ,and Murray). I
have to wonder that, if this were a true doctrine, why the Lord would
entrust it to such people as these?
> There was a lot of smoke, way too much smoke from many areas
> for me, so I left. He told everyone at Passover this year in Branson
> that he would sue anyone who came against him and take everything they
> had. Therefore I cannot say too much. They trump up lies on people
> and say things like we were fired when we quit or they go and call our
> friends families at work and tell them they better not try to go to
> the Fall Fellowship or Pasover if they are friends with us. They make
> everyone suspect of everyone else, no one can be trusted. Paranoia is
> rampant. That is one goal, bloom where you are planted and never talk
> about this stuff because it is gossip.
Sounds a lot like Gene Scott's church. There seems to be a pattern of
spiritual abuse here.
> Well gossip on our end but
> they claim to hate the net but have "their internet people reporting
> in" and they want to know everything we hear to defend Pastor Murray.
> He puts the word out over the air and his minions take action.
Is he that concerned about what people are saying about him? In this
forum ,a lot has been said about Gene Scott , that I don't know if he
is aware of or not.
I don't know if Scott has people reporting in to him about it. At
least , thus far, he hasn't gone so far as to demand it publicly. The
closest thing to that was when he gave the "horses tirade" in 1991, in
which he wanted people to report anyone who said anything negative
about the horses, Gene Scott, or any of the programming on his
network.
> There is one gal who is after everyone that left. She even put on her
> homepage her destiny was to take care of us. Get rid of the "tumblebugs" no
> matter what.
What does she mean by "get rid of" ? This sounds dangerous.
> One pastor whose church left the studying with Shepherds Chapel, who
> has excellent works and fruits of the spirit is Billy Elkins.
> www.forestviewchapel.com. He is sincere and tried at every level to
> be a real pastor. He is not a tv preacher.
> It is really a hard thing
> when you loved the Murrays like family and trusted them completly.
> Foolish.
> Isabella
I feel for you Isabella, and you are in my prayers. I understand what
this feels like, having done the same with Dr. Scott.
Matt2442
matt2442
Here's some info on Arnold Murray from the internet:
From http://www.cephasministry.com/arnold_murray.html
Arnold Murray Shepherd's Chapel
Recently I was approached to listen to Arnold Murray Shepherd's Chapel
Website Radio Presentation. In the meantime I received an article in
the mail from the MacGregor Ministries that included a discussion of
Mr. Murray. What's even more interesting another person requested
information about Arnold's ministry. This is only one of many
instances where one newsletter article became a witnessing tool to a
large email group, the person who approached me with Murray's Website
and the lady who wanted information about the Shepherd's Chapel.
Lorri MacGregor wrote: "He appears to be patriotic, usually displaying
the American flag behind his desk. This is, in reality, a prop for his
message that the white Anglo-Saxons are the chosen race. Worldwide
Church of God watchers may remember that this was a favorite doctrine
of the late Herbert W. Armstrong, called "British-Israelism" The
Worldwide Church of God has since denounced this theory after careful
research, but it is still alive and well though ministries like "The
Shepherd's Chapel", and offshoot, dissident groups of the WCG.
Basically, it teaches that Anerica and Great Britain are the ten lost
tribes of the children of Israel, therefore being the now chosen
people of God. Trouble is, the "ten lost tribes" were never lost,
according to the Bible, never mind travelling first to England and
then immigrating to the USA. The Doctrine is just thinly veiled racism
in its ugliest form.
Christians know that ".. God is not one to show partiality, but in
EVERY NATION the man who fears Him and does what is right, is welcome
to Him". (Acts 10:34,35). So, since God doesn't discriminate on the
basis of skin color, neither should we.
A favorite charge of Arnold Murray is that Christian, orthodox,
teachers "don't know their Bible." Well, neither does Mr. Murray! As
with all cult groups, we find Mr. Murray denying the basic, biblical
doctrines of the Christian Church.
For example he denies the Trinity, the Bible teaching that the One,
True God of the Bible has revealed Himself in Three Persons, (not 3
gods), as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There is ample
proof of this straight from the Bible. All cult groups seek to
downgrade Jesus Christ while exalting themselves. Mr. Murray is no
exception.
One of his favorite heresies, which I find mind boggling, is the false
teaching of the "serpent's seed." This strange doctrine teaches that,
in the garden of Eden, Eve had sexual relations with the serpent,
Satan the Devil. This resulted in a child, Cain. (Abel is conceded to
be Adam's child). Then, all of the descendants of Cain are branded as
"seeds of the serpent" (the nonwhite races), He accuses the present
day Jews of actually being the descendants of Cain, calling "kenites".
Since, he believes, these were the ones who crucified Christ, they are
the evil "Serpent's seed."
His followers, of course, are the true seed of God, Abel's
descendants. He also gives himself the designation of God's exclusive
end-time messenger for the world. As expected, hell is denied, as is
the rapture teaching. Avoid this bigoted man and, better yet, complain
to your TV station! (MacGregor Ministries #47 January 1999)
From http://cultlink.com/sentinel/murray.html
The Christian Sentinel
Archives
The Cultic Views of Arnold Murray and the Shepherd's Chapel
Article originally posted 1994. See 8-18-02 Editor's note/revision at
the end of the article.
By William M. Alnor
ă 1994 Christian Sentinel
For the past five years this ministry has received occasional inquires
about Arnold Murray of Gravette, Ark. It seems that his message is
blanketing the Delaware Valley through his "Shepherd’s Chapel"
television show seen several times a day on various stations,
including on Channel 61 Wilmington/Philadelphia.
We were at first put off by his television attitude that is marked by
frequent insults and crass language. He thunders against people who
write him letters
(all delivered while he sits behind a desk in front of an American
flag). We were also surprised by the strength and loyalty of his
following; he is on the air in numerous major markets throughout the
U.S.
But, his outward behavior is merely a symptom of his heretical
doctrine. The message Arnold Murray is spreading is cultic and lethal
to one’s soul. And from an earthly perspective his teachings
promote bigotry against Jews, blacks and all non-Anglo-Saxon people.
This contrasts markedly with the fruit of the Spirit which is love,
joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and
temperance (Gal. 5:22-23).
So beware of Arnold Murray. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing and
though he may rant and rave against historic orthodox teachers saying
they don’t know their Bibles, he is the one who doesn’t
know his Bible. He:
Denies the historic doctrine of the Trinity.
Believes that men were once gods who existed prior to living on the
earth.
Teaches the divisive doctrine promoted by other cults that the
Anglo-Saxons are the chosen race, and America and Great Britain are
the lost tribes of the children of Israel.
Denies the existence of hell.
Claims the doctrine of the rapture is "cultic."
Bestows a special honor on himself, claiming to be God’s
exclusive end time messenger for the world.
Falsely claims to have a doctorate degree from a properly accredited
university or seminary.
But the core of his teaching centers around the sinister "serpent
seed" doctrine that has been linked to various identity "Christian"
and right-wing neo-nazi groups. What this doctrine teaches is that in
the Garden of Eden, Eve’s sin was that of having literal sexual
intercourse with the serpent, which resulted in the pregnancy that
produced Cain; the devil’s literal offspring.
Murray says the descendants of this offspring are the "Kenites," a
hybrid that include the Jews of today. These were the "Jews" who
killed Christ, he has stated in his tape called "Grace: Baptism,"
adding that "if you have ever really believed that group was the
chosen of God you were deceived by Satan!"
In the same tape Murray teaches that even among Christians the
different races should have no fellowship.
But Paul says in Gal. 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is
neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are
all one in Christ Jesus." Express your outrage to any television
station that carries Murray and his evil message.
Aug. 18, 2002 revision/editor's note: Notice: We reserve the right to
publish any and all letters and E-mail posts we receive. This will
include listing your name, E-mail address and personal address. We
also have the right to edit your letter for brevity.
I am pointing this out because over the years we have received much
mail, both pro and con, over this article. However, a great deal of
mail has been threatening in nature. Some of it has been death
threats from people who appear to be mentally unstable. None of them
were able to satisfactorily refute this article, and in fact other
reputable evangelical ministries have also now published more complete
articles on the false prophet, Arnold Murray, of which we will link to
in the future. Beware of Murray. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing!
-- Bill Alnor, publisher
From http://www.letusreason.org/poptea4.htm
(Too long to reprint here.)
Matt2442
Daniel O'Connell
"Isabella" <sanda...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ed24dcef.03100...@posting.google.com...
I think Murray Also teaches that if you believe in the rapture you our of
the devil. Which is nonsense, if you support a rapture or do not has nothing
to do with your standing before God
jack landrum
tired of watching Scott and switch to Murray. At first he seemed OK. An
ex-marine wounded in Korea, flag-waving American. But the more I watched him,
the more bizarre he became. His son, Dennis, told a viewer the law did not die
with Christ, that we would all have to go thru the Great Tribulation, etc.
Murray said on one occasion that a giant survived the flood by clinging to the
top of the ark. Noah fed him thru a hole. Don't know if any of that is true or
not, but it sounds like some of the Raymond Capt stuff he sells.
We have a friend in Ft. Smith who also told us Murray is seeing Loretta Lynn
since Muraay's wife died a few years ago.
There used to be a "Hate Arnold Murray" website similar to the Hate Walmart
site. Don't know if it is still out there or not, but it listed all of Murray's
peculiar theological beliefs.
Jack
gypsie
Gypsie
matt2442
> Thanks Matt for the below info. You have great resources.
>
> Gypsie
Your Welcome , Gypsie. Actually , I just did a Google search in all
newsgroups for Arnold Murray, and one of the threads that came up
contained these references.
Matt2442
Isabella
> I feel for you Isabella, and you are in my prayers. I understand what
> this feels like, having done the same with Dr. Scott.
>
>
> Matt2442
Well this lady signs you up on porn pages and send viruses and uses
spyware and all on anyone who is in the slightest disagreement with
Arnold. WE got one lady that has a website, that uses spyware on its
people so she can track what they are looking at and report that in to
headquarters.. You would not believe the crazy things peole do to get
in with them. I think this one gal is obsessed with him. The Murray
Minions out there watch everything. You send them an email or say
anything and they have to zap it all back down to headquarters. This
is a TV ministry (yeah) with no membership, yet people insist on
reporting in and trying to get brownine points anyway thay can to be
in with the Murrays. They got the wrong person up on the cross...
Isabella
Isabella
> Murray seems like a nice man, but has some very unorthodox beliefs (like
> no original sin).
>
> Jack
>
Comparet, and J Vernon Mcghee. Nice, well, thats another story. I
always thought he was...but it is TV.
Isabella
Matt2442
From 2003. A poster named "Isabella" tells us of her experience at Shepherd's Chapel.
lakro...@gmail.com
More humanist then when I began. More reason to justify ones own unaccountability to the actual truth that all from the top to the bottom are deluded wonton unrighteous truth stomping christians
geraldkrug
Matt2442
> And then she promptly found another church to follow blindly albeit more demanding in being appreciated and blah blah blah
>
Isabella didn't become a scottie. She checked in here to see if Doc's church was anything like the one she escaped from.
nopms
geraldkrug
lakro...@gmail.com
geraldkrug
lakro...@gmail.com
whyanotherusername09
Jesus was the fulfillment of the Law ... i have issues with otherwise 'normal' churches who espouse this teaching. either we reject the old law in its entirety (except the ten commandments, which Jesus Himself advocated) or we subscribe to it. Malachi's 'rule' has passed away. we give according to our conscience, our hearts. Matthew 6:2-3.
geraldkrug
tithe to the lie of being saved
from pain tithe to the drug men.
lakro...@gmail.com
geraldkrug
Celestia S
geraldkrug
kentmo...@gmail.com
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
--------------
It's that simple for those who believe.
kentmo...@gmail.com
_____________
Because the were taken out of the first real Babylon.
The Hittites and Amorites
When they were taken out they had new laws.
They had new laws from Moses too.
When they came out of The captivity of Babylon they had even new laws.
Jesus did not follow the serpent ( list) of laws but only 2 laws of his father. Following those 2 laws you do not break any other laws.
geraldkrug
cant pay tax crisis, haha crisis for greed not jesass chrust.
geraldkrug
Doc = the problem bishop.