Cons, manners, and fanboys
Paul Bennett
If I might ask, I have not yet been in a position to attend a Con. However
I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
cover most situations. Would those of you who vend at con's care to
comment on further good behaviour.
When I do finally get to attend a con, I would much rather conduct myself to
be a welcome sight rather than someone that leads vendors to cringe.
Thanks
Paul
David G. Bell
In article <4phiiu$4...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu>
ben...@cis.ufl.edu "Paul Bennett" writes:
>
> If I might ask, I have not yet been in a position to attend a Con. However
> I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
> flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
> etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
> cover most situations. Would those of you who vend at con's care to
> comment on further good behaviour.
Your good manners and common courtesy will almost certainly get you a
good welcome. There are subtleties in the accepted behaviour at
conventions that differ from those current elsewhere, but I am afraid
there are a few people -- the 'fan-boys' -- who take undue advantage of
the general level of tolerance for unorthodox behaviour.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Steve Gattuso
Paul Bennett wrote:
>
> If I might ask, I have not yet been in a position to attend a Con. However
> I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
> flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
> etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
> cover most situations. Would those of you who vend at con's care to
> comment on further good behaviour.
> be a welcome sight rather than someone that leads vendors to cringe.
The very act of you asking here suggests that you are least
likely to perform in the egregious manner that labels one a putz. Here
are a few suggestions:
1. Bathe. _Trust_ me, this is a very good start. Change your clothes at
least once a day, too.
2. If you plan to start a sketchbook, read Rich Chandler's FAQ on
Sketchbook Ettiquette. It is posted automatically to this newsgroup on a
monthly basis. In fact, I think it's due to come out again about now.
3. Be patient. If you cannot connect with a vendor or artist you are
interested in right off the bat, relax and wait.
In most ways, act with the same good manners that you would be expected
of outside of a con and you can't go wrong. Thank you for speaking up.
Fandom needs more folks like you.
Tygger
Paul Bennett (ben...@cis.ufl.edu) wrote:
: If I might ask, I have not yet been in a position to attend a Con. However
: I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
: flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
: etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
: cover most situations. Would those of you who vend at con's care to
: comment on further good behaviour.
: When I do finally get to attend a con, I would much rather conduct myself to
: be a welcome sight rather than someone that leads vendors to cringe.
Well, you already have the most important things to remember: good
manners and common courtesy, IMHO. Here's a few others:
Don't pester the artist if they're doing a sketch for you: I give myself
1-2 hours to get one done at a con. Why? I'm usually alone at my table
and handling money and other purchases. That eats into my sketching time.
Be a little understanding if the artist isn't done at the time he/she
told you: Sometimes, despite best intentions, a sketch just can't be done
in the time guesstimated by the artist. It honestly doesn't mean that
the artist didn't care, only that things happened to eat into the
sketching time.
Be a little understanding if the artist is taking a break from work and
drawing for themselves as a rest: Sometimes drawing for others is a
draining effort as you try to get the vision of the customer right. Some
artists, myself included, will take little breaks to doodle for
themselves to recharge.
*grins at self* Here I go again, giving my opinions. Okay, I'll shut up
now and give the floor to others.
--Tygger
--
****************************************************************************
tyg...@netcom.com http://www.av.qnet.cm/~canuss/tygger
****************************************************************************
"Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark."
Lazarus Long, The Notebooks of Lazarus Long, Robert A. Heinlein
Jeff Mancebo
Paul Bennett (ben...@cis.ufl.edu) wrote:
: etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
: cover most situations. Would those of you who vend at con's care to
: comment on further good behaviour.
boojum wiggles his nose, "Well.. for starters good manners and common
courtesy will keep you from EVER being a fanboy. The best description I
have for a true Fanboy is someone who is so fanatical and greedy for
whatever his special desire is that he doesn't see others as human. All
artists must make what he wants and should do it for free if he can make
them. People exist to cater to his desires, 24 hours a day. He's the
sort who thinks its a neat idea to stop by an artists house at 2am
unnanounced, and then expect the artist to cater to his wishes."
The brown bunny grins happily, "If you keep good manners and common
courtesy in mind you will NEVER be in danger of being a FAnboy."
boojum the brown bunny
AP's Matt
In article <4phiiu$4...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> Paul Bennett,
ben...@cis.ufl.edu writes:
>If I might ask, I have not yet been in a position to attend a Con. However
>I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
>flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
>cover most situations. Would those of you who vend at con's care to
>comment on further good behaviour.
>be a welcome sight rather than someone that leads vendors to cringe.
With the nickname of "Travelling Matt", and the fact that I on the
road three months out of the year at conventions (in fact, I leave on
Wednesday for North Carolina), I think I have a bit of expertise in
this area. Some of these suggestions may seem like common sense, some
of the bear repeating anyway.
1) BATHE at least once a day. You'd be surprised how many con-goers
go an entire three-day convention without taking a single shower, much
less wash their hands. Make sure to change clothes at least once a
day. After a day in the same clothes, in a hot, sticky convention
packed with lots of people, it gets pretty bad. I've gone to some
"parties" before where the smell was sooooo bad I was literally forced
out of the room - the "fench" was so bad.
2) Be polite. Say "please" and "thank you" and all that other good
stuff. If you act nice and have good manners at conventions the
people you meet are much more likely to be nice back.
3) Don't "hog" a table in front of an artist or a dealer. Most of
the artists or vendors who attend conventions have come a long way,
and they have to make some money in order to defray travel expenses.
If you stand in front of his or her table for a loooooong time, you
are blocking access for other people to come up and buy stuff. If the
artist wants to chat, or if the con is going slowly, then that's fine
- but remember that many of the people have to sell enough stuff to be
able to buy enough gas to get back home.
4) If you are getting something signed by an artist, writer, etc -
make sure to have whatever you are having signed ready. For example,
if you have a comic you want an artist to sign, make sure it is out of
the bag and opened to the correct page. Also, don't bring hundreds of
things to sign artists don't take kindly to that sort of thing.
5) If a group of people are going out to eat, or if there is a
private room party going on, don't just invite yourself to go along.
Make sure to ASK first if it alright to tag along.
6) If you attend a room party or eat anything in the con suite, make
sure to leave a little something in the kitty to defray costs. Not
much - maybe a dollar or so - but every little bit helps.
7) Keep in mind some people have to be up fairly early in the morning
to do things - most people in the dealers room have to be awake by 8
AM, if not earlier. There's usually a "party floor" or an area where
you can be as loud as you want, whenever you want - but keep in mind
everywhere else in the hotel(s) that some people are sleeping.
8) At the end of the day, many artists, guests, and dealers have been
up and at work for 8, 10, or 12 hours straight - frequently without
even a single bathroom break. If you want to win points with someone,
you might offer to get them something like a coke from the vending
machine, or a snack, or something like that. A token gesture like
that will win over the hearts of many a dealer or guest.
9) If you go into a video room, remember to keep quiet - there may
actually be someone watching.
That's all I can think of right now. I'm sure others will have
suggestions.
Best,
- mlh, recently returned from "BunkerCon aka Project A-kon VII".
Seth Breidbart
>8) At the end of the day, many artists, guests, and dealers have been
>up and at work for 8, 10, or 12 hours straight - frequently without
>even a single bathroom break. If you want to win points with someone,
>you might offer to get them something like a coke from the vending
>machine, or a snack, or something like that.
If I've gone 8 or 12 hours without a bathroom break, the _last_ thing
I need is a coke.
Seth
Anne B. Nonie Rider
Another suggestion for convention manners:
Remember that your favorite writer, artist, or actor is still
a human being, with other things on their mind than your
desire for their attention or autograph. They may have
sore feet, an allergy hangover, and a three-year-old up
in the hotel room, and they don't owe you anything.
Don't interrupt their conversations, invite yourself in on
their dinner plans, or try to impress them by getting in
their face with your favorite quote.
Try making your favorite author's life easier--hang
back until you know what's being discussed; offer to get
them a soda between their back-to-back talks, and let
them know quietly how much their work means to you.
--Nonie
GreyWolfe
On 11 Jun 1996 02:15:34 GMT, AP's Matt <ant...@texas.net> wrote:
>In article <4phiiu$4...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> Paul Bennett,
>ben...@cis.ufl.edu writes:
>>If I might ask, I have not yet been in a position to attend a Con. However
>>I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
>>flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
>>etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
>>cover most situations. Would those of you who vend at con's care to
>>comment on further good behaviour.
>>When I do finally get to attend a con, I would much rather conduct myself to
>>be a welcome sight rather than someone that leads vendors to cringe.
NEVER linger on a guest or claim to be their "number one fan" no
matter how much you may believe it. This will most often either scare
them or otherwise disturb them. While some with larger egos may enjoy
this from time to time most hear it so often it is an easy way to
loose their respect for you. While the occasional brownnosing (like
the bringing of their favorite drink) may sometimes win points, most
of the time simply recognizing them as human and treating them as a
peer tends to go over better (they are after all just that, normal
people making a living doing what they enjoy)
Basicly respect the guest and his/her privacy and work and treat them
as you would have them treat you and you will be well recieved.
good luck
GreyWolfe
On A Hot Summer's Night Would You Offer Your Throat
To The Wolfe With The Red Roses ?
Synicism
In article <4pjqq3$b...@panix3.panix.com>, se...@panix.com (Seth Breidbart)
writes:
>>8) At the end of the day, many artists, guests, and dealers have been
>>up and at work for 8, 10, or 12 hours straight - frequently without
>>even a single bathroom break. If you want to win points with someone,
>>you might offer to get them something like a coke from the vending
>>machine, or a snack, or something like that.
>
>If I've gone 8 or 12 hours without a bathroom break, the _last_ thing
>I need is a coke.
True... but how many people would take you up on an offer of a catheter?
<BG>
Scott Whitmore
Paul Bennett (ben...@cis.ufl.edu) wrote:
: If I might ask, I have not yet been in a position to attend a Con. However
: I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
: flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
: etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
Genesis cook here, using Scott's account.
Firstly, the old rule usually is... if you're worried about offending someone
or getting on someone's nerves... you probably haven't.
All you really have to do is remember tact and common human courtesey.
If you want to commission someone to do an erotica picture for you, you
might start by asking of that artist actually draws erotica before you
describe in detail the act you want portrayed. If you want someone to do
a sketch of a character of yours, don't get nitpicky about the details...
ESPECIALLY when the artist is halfway done with the picture. I spent
furtasticon doing the same picture for the same person three times
over... and each time he would come up to me and say "that's very good..
but draw it CUTER!".
It's okay to brouse through prints and not buy anything. Sometimes just
pointing out a picture that you like and telling the artist that you like
it and why is good. I like to know what people find appealing about my
work... so I'll be inclined to do more of it.
One other thing about sketchbooks... like a few other artists, I only
take three commissions at any given time. Be it a bookmark, a badge,
or a sketchbook. Nothing annoys me more then when someone insists I take
their book when I'm already full up. My commission methods are to give
everyone an equal chance at getting a sketch from me, I don't pick favorites.
One final thing... don't haggle. My prices aren't very high to begin
with, I don't intend on lowering them just because you might only have
three dollars in your pocket. (Five dollars at my table can get you a
lot of things, a custom drawn name badge, a hand painted bookmark, a
pencil sketch, a color print, or one of my older origionals out of my art
book... that's pretty cheap, isn't it?)
All you really have to worry about is common courtesey... watch your
manners, don't be pushy. If you can't get what you want then don't
press. It's alright to just talk with the artist. I make it a point to
talk to everyone at my table if I can help it. I may not be as talkative
if my nose is buried in a commission... but I'm quite willing to take a
break and chat for a little bit. All I ask is that you allow room for
others to come by and take a look at my stuff while you're there, and
remember that I can only hold one conversaton at a time... it really bugs
me when two people try to talk to me at once, they know that someone else
is talking to me, and they don;t care. I won't be going anywhere...
you'll find that I'll pay a lot more attention to you as well if you're
the only person talking to me.
Hope I've helped!
-Genesis Eve Cook
Brent Eric Edwards
I've acted as a vendor (thanks, Mel!) at Confurence. Here's the
advice I have...
1. Don't bow and scrape to the artists/writers/wizards/whatever.
No one is that famous or important.
2. Don't act superior to the artists/writers/wizards/whatever.
They're the ones providing the service.
3. You can act a little more outrageously at conventions, but not THAT
far out. When I hugged and kissed Synge (another male) in the
dealers' room, that probably stretched the limits. When I heard
reports (here) that some fen were racing about, wearing only a
styrofoam cup, that's gone far over the limits.
4. Be tolerant, yourself.
5. As boojum said, bathe, bathe, bathe. You don't realize how much you
run around conventions.
-- Brent Edwards
--
Unsolicited commercial e-mail including surveys will be charged $100 for
proofreading services. Sending me such constitutes acceptance of this policy.
Chris Whalen
In article <31bdca1c...@news.csra.net>, gryw...@csra.net (GreyWolfe)
wrote:
> NEVER linger on a guest or claim to be their "number one fan" no
> matter how much you may believe it. This will most often either scare
> them or otherwise disturb them. < snip >
For an artist or dealer's worse nightmare, see the movie "Misery" starring
James Caan playing a writer who is imprisoned by an obsessive fan (who
announced to him that she was his "number one fan"). At one point the fan
breaks his legs to keep him from fleeing.
Imprisoning and breaking a writer's legs is definitely on the list of
no-nos for con etiquette. <g>
-- Chris
Geri Sullivan
Robert TorresII wrote:
>
> AP's Matt <ant...@texas.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <4phiiu$4...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> Paul Bennett,
> >ben...@cis.ufl.edu writes:
> >>I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
> >>flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
> >>etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
> >>comment on further good behaviour.
> >>When I do finally get to attend a con, I would much rather conduct myself to
> >>be a welcome sight rather than someone that leads vendors to cringe.
<snip>
> >5) If a group of people are going out to eat, or if there is a
> >private room party going on, don't just invite yourself to go along.
> >Make sure to ASK first if it alright to tag along.
>
> *CLAP* CLAP* *CLAP* *CLAP*
Yes. Then *listen* to the response you get and act accordingly.
Geri [wondering what part of "our group is full, but other people
here in the room also seem to be looking for a dinner group; you can
probably put together an expedition with some of them" a certain fan
didn't understand. And it wasn't even at a comics con.]
--
Geri Sullivan <g...@toad-hall.com>
=================================
"It's the time you waste for them that makes a friend a friend
unique in all the world until the end." -- Ted Sherman (Safe
journey, Will & Emma!)
Robert TorresII
AP's Matt <ant...@texas.net> wrote:
>In article <4phiiu$4...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> Paul Bennett,
>ben...@cis.ufl.edu writes:
>>If I might ask, I have not yet been in a position to attend a Con. However
>>I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
>>flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
>>etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
>>cover most situations. Would those of you who vend at con's care to
>>comment on further good behaviour.
>>When I do finally get to attend a con, I would much rather conduct myself to
>>be a welcome sight rather than someone that leads vendors to cringe.
PLEASE PASTE THIS TO ALL THE DOORS LEADING INTO THE DEALERS
ROOM!!!!!!!
I have to agree to many of your points. I have been on both sides of
the table, as a fan and as a dealer. And sometimes, a little manners
will go a long way.
>1) BATHE at least once a day. You'd be surprised how many con-goers
>go an entire three-day convention without taking a single shower, much
>less wash their hands. Make sure to change clothes at least once a
>day. After a day in the same clothes, in a hot, sticky convention
>packed with lots of people, it gets pretty bad. I've gone to some
>"parties" before where the smell was sooooo bad I was literally forced
>out of the room - the "fench" was so bad.
At Baycon, there was a large area outside where furs could escape the
body odor, and head in the party. That is one of the things I dread
at the San Diego Comic-con is the furry party, it is fun. But the
head and odor is unbearble!
>3) Don't "hog" a table in front of an artist or a dealer. Most of
>the artists or vendors who attend conventions have come a long way,
>and they have to make some money in order to defray travel expenses.
>If you stand in front of his or her table for a loooooong time, you
>are blocking access for other people to come up and buy stuff. If the
>artist wants to chat, or if the con is going slowly, then that's fine
>- but remember that many of the people have to sell enough stuff to be
>able to buy enough gas to get back home.
The artist who I now agent for, Michele Gault, and I shared a dealers
table with another artist. And you want to talk about the most rudes
thing this fellow artist did to us. Was her little fan-club showed up
at the table and wanted to talk, well instead of having her fans stand
in front of her merchantice, she moved them so that they blocked our
half of the table, and left her side open. I voiced my opinion on
this, and they got angry and me for not allowing them to talk to their
idol. I'm sorry, common sense saids that you should have respect, to
ones job, and selling at the convention is Michele and myselfs job.
Luck for us, we only lived a few miles from the con, so gas money was
not that bad.
>5) If a group of people are going out to eat, or if there is a
>private room party going on, don't just invite yourself to go along.
>Make sure to ASK first if it alright to tag along.
*CLAP* CLAP* *CLAP* *CLAP*
>8) At the end of the day, many artists, guests, and dealers have been
>up and at work for 8, 10, or 12 hours straight - frequently without
>even a single bathroom break. If you want to win points with someone,
>you might offer to get them something like a coke from the vending
>machine, or a snack, or something like that. A token gesture like
>that will win over the hearts of many a dealer or guest.
One year at SDCC, I commission Roberta Gregory to do a drawing in my
sketch book, and for the payment of the commission, I bought her a hot
dog and a large coke from the food stand. That token gesture was
enough for her to give me one of her books sign for free!!!!! SO IT
DOES HELP TO MAKE GUESTURES TO THE DEALERS! *grin*
Robert Torres II
LIVING CLAY PRODUCTION, MICHELE GAULT AND COMPANY.
FurryMuck: BLACKMANE
Yiffnet: Blackmane
Flinthoof Ponypal
Good advice, Tygger. Especially regarding sketching time. Guestimated
times often have a way of going by the wayside during sales and small chats.
Bringing an artist a simple soda or cookie can go a long ways towards
making a friend for life. We can't get out to get lunch or catch panels,
movies, or whatever when we are manning a table.
Another goody that surprises an artist is to give 'em a good quality
pad of paper, acid free, bristol board (plate or smooth finish). It's
surprising how fast paper goes at a con, even if you plan for it.
Amara
Good Manners shjould go for artists too.. I've heard horror stories of
artists and/or celebrities at some cons being rude prats. Luckily I have
yet to run into that... I will say that Terry Pratchett plays a mean game
of Gravity wars (he beat me 12 times out of 13. waaaah!). Paul Kidd is
also one of the wonderfully oddest people I have had the pleasure of
meeting and drawing in his sketchbook... heh.. he was at the same con as
Terry Pratchett... hee. :) Swancon 18.. what a buzz. :)
Amara
"We are all in the gutter.. but some of us are looking at the stars"
- Oscar Wilde
http://rat.org/amara
ap...@cleo.murdoch.edu.au :)
Tygger
Flinthoof Ponypal (Flin...@zebradale.com) wrote:
: Good advice, Tygger. Especially regarding sketching time. Guestimated
: times often have a way of going by the wayside during sales and small chats.
*nods* It eats into my sketching time HUGELY. Now I don't mind the
chatting, as I can do that and sketch too (being a parent of 2 small
children DOES have its advantages in the multi-tasking skills), but
sometimes I'll get distracted and will leave the table. Usually when a
friend of mine I've not seen in RL for months (tho we talk online) pops
up and I go hug them.
BUT...I will say this: the fans at Duckon were WONDERFULLY well behaved,
at least the ones I ran into. *smiles* THAT really added to the fun for
me as I didn't have to be in a semi-parent mode to deal with obnoxious
fans. Then again, it was a mid-west con and I'm more used to the west
coast ones, so that could have been a difference in the types of fans as
well. I only had a minor problem with one fellow, and that was taken
care of easily.
: Bringing an artist a simple soda or cookie can go a long ways towards
: making a friend for life. We can't get out to get lunch or catch panels,
: movies, or whatever when we are manning a table.
Or LOTS of McDonald cookies! *grins* Okay, I admit it...I like them!
Don't like much else of their food but the cookies are good! ;9
: Another goody that surprises an artist is to give 'em a good quality
: pad of paper, acid free, bristol board (plate or smooth finish). It's
: surprising how fast paper goes at a con, even if you plan for it.
*noddles* I went thru my entire full pad of bristol at the con. Ah
well.
--Tygger
--
****************************************************************************
tyg...@netcom.com http://www.av.qnet.com/~canuss/tygger
Mark Freid
>All you really have to do is remember tact and common human courtesey.
Ah-Men to THAT!
>If you want to commission someone to do an erotica picture for you, you
>might start by asking of that artist actually draws erotica before you
>describe in detail the act you want portrayed. If you want someone to do
>a sketch of a character of yours, don't get nitpicky about the details...
>ESPECIALLY when the artist is halfway done with the picture. I spent
>furtasticon doing the same picture for the same person three times
>over... and each time he would come up to me and say "that's very good..
>but draw it CUTER!".
I'm particulat about what I draw. I draw very little erotica, though I
will. Gen's advice on this mattter is pretty straight on. If you don't
want to blurt out "Hey, do you do furry porn??!", look at the artists
work. There are two reasons to look at someones work, a) (if you
haven't seen the artists work yet) Curiosity. b) (if you are familiar
with the artist) You enjoy the artists style. In either case, you can
decide what that person will do, and if you want him/her to do what
you want done.
Once you've seen the work, decide. But don't stop there. Think about
it. If you want a clothed porcupine, and you don't see any porcupines
in the artists binder, don't leave! After all, just because the artist
doesn't do them often, doesn't mean he/she can't do them well. And if
it is an artist you like, you'll be all the happier. A case in point,
is I was at my table at CF7, when I was asked to do a morphic rabbit.
I've hardly ever done rabbits, but I drew away, and was very pleased
with the result (as was the customer).... (I won't even start on the
part-rabbit, part-kangaroo, part-fox drawing! <g>)
On Gen's second point, from the previous example you should know about
the artists work enough to not pick one that you have to say "draw it
<insert adjective>er!" Every artist has a different style. I asked
Jeremy Bernal at CFEast to do my Personal furry on a T-shirt. I got
the shirt shortly thereafter, and it was much different than what I
expected... but, I was still very happy. It was great! Not because It
was what I expected, but because it was a great drawing by an artist I
like... Everyone has their representation. If you must have a drawing
done "right", then perhaps at a later date you can ask the artist for
another sketch or commission. Many times have I seen multiple drawings
by the same artist in the same book.
>
>It's okay to brouse through prints and not buy anything. Sometimes just
>pointing out a picture that you like and telling the artist that you like
>it and why is good. I like to know what people find appealing about my
>work... so I'll be inclined to do more of it.
Yep! and occasionally I'll get requests for something in color when
it's Black & White. twice I've even had sold out prints that were
requested for delivery at a later date. (If the guy who wanted a print
of the "San Diego Censored" print is reading this, E-Mail me! I lost
your address! waaaaaaaugh!) But the best thing to do if you don't want
to buy it is to tell the artist what you think
>
>One other thing about sketchbooks... like a few other artists, I only
>take three commissions at any given time. Be it a bookmark, a badge,
>or a sketchbook. Nothing annoys me more then when someone insists I take
>their book when I'm already full up. My commission methods are to give
>everyone an equal chance at getting a sketch from me, I don't pick favorites.
>
>One final thing... don't haggle. My prices aren't very high to begin
>with, I don't intend on lowering them just because you might only have
>three dollars in your pocket. (Five dollars at my table can get you a
>lot of things, a custom drawn name badge, a hand painted bookmark, a
>pencil sketch, a color print, or one of my older origionals out of my art
>book... that's pretty cheap, isn't it?)
Ack! I've seen this too... *sigh* We're not known as "starving
artists: for nothing. Many of the artists you see, no matter how
popular either need to try to make a living at this, or can't
possibly, and need to use the money for additional material, or to go
to the next con, or whatever. I know the little money I take home at a
con is put in my "furry fund" Used only for materials, reference &
other cons!
>
>All you really have to worry about is common courtesey... watch your
>manners, don't be pushy. If you can't get what you want then don't
>press. It's alright to just talk with the artist. I make it a point to
>talk to everyone at my table if I can help it. I may not be as talkative
>if my nose is buried in a commission... but I'm quite willing to take a
>break and chat for a little bit. All I ask is that you allow room for
>others to come by and take a look at my stuff while you're there, and
>remember that I can only hold one conversaton at a time... it really bugs
>me when two people try to talk to me at once, they know that someone else
>is talking to me, and they don;t care. I won't be going anywhere...
>you'll find that I'll pay a lot more attention to you as well if you're
>the only person talking to me.
And for God's sake, don't be the "drooling fanboy" Most artists are
bugged when you "worship" them. Be polite. I'm proud to say I've made
a general good impression with many furry artists and writers by the
way I act... after all, I'm more often a fan than an artist.
Conversational Do's and Don'ts.
>-> GREETING <-<
DO
"Hello <name of artist>, my name's <your name>. I'm glad to meet you.
I thouroughly enjoy your work"
(typical artists response: "Thank you very much, <your name>. I'm
glad/flattered.")
DON'T
"OOOoooOOohhh... Mister/Miss <artists name>... you are so great! you
are my god! <slobber>
(typical artists reponse: "Uh......" or "Hey Joe! <ignores you, walks
away to speak to imaginary friend>" or (sarcastically) "great..."
--------------------------------------------------
>-> Buying/Browsing Wares <-<
DO
"I was walking by and thought I'd see what you have for sale" <look
through wares. buy what you like, or give positive comment>
(typical artists response: "Great! well, I've got <shows his warez>"
DONT
"Oh wow! lookit all this cool new stuff! I cant buy it, cause I'm
broke, but Oh! cool! aw this one sucks!... <etcetera>..."
(typical artists response: "*sigh*" <roll eyes... wish for
intervention...>)
-------------------------------------------------
>-> Sketchbooks <-<
DO
"Do you have the time for an ink drawing in my sketchbook?"
(typical artists response: "Certainly. It will take about 1 hour, is
that okay?" or "I'm sorry, but I have three books I'm working on. If
you come back in an hour or so, I'll probably be able to take it.")
DONT
"Can you (drool) Erma Felna naked? with a CROWBAR?"
(apoligies to Steve Gallacci and Jim Groat <grin>)
(typical artists response: "Erma Felna?!?! (esp. if it's not Steve),
or "I'm sorry, I'm completely backed up right now... maybe at a later
date..." <then diverts his/her attention>)
>Hope I've helped!
>
>-Genesis Eve Cook
>
Me too.
P.S. Gen, I did what you told me and I submitted to other mags. I'll
show up in Pawprints & Yarf now. happy? I am. Thanks for your kind
words at CF7. :P
=============================================
Mark Freid ("Canuss") Wolf, Cartoonist, Loony
=============================================
Web: http://www.av.qnet.com/~canuss
Email: can...@qnet.com
"Canuss" on GEnie's Beastie Board & FurryMUCK!
==============================================
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
>
> Well, you already have the most important things to remember: good
> manners and common courtesy, IMHO. Here's a few others:
<SNIP>
> *grins at self* Here I go again, giving my opinions. Okay, I'll shut up
> now and give the floor to others.
One thing I'd say to those who are doing the sketches also is
remember these people are admirers and customers, so be polite. Nothing
can turn away admirers of your work faster than them getting the feeling
you're a jerk. Case in point, I was a totally mindless Terrie Smith fan,
until a friend of mine who went to some Con decided to say hello, since I
had raved about her stuff. Reportedly, she pretty much snubbed him.
Granted, this his his side, backed up by a few who were with him, but it's
pretty much killed my interest in her work. I still think she's a decent
artist, but I don't buy her stuff anymore.
Urthwyse of the Northern Woods
Foxy
On 11 Jun 1996, Seth Breidbart wrote:
> In article <4piks6$j...@news2.texas.net>, AP's Matt <ant...@texas.net> wrote:
>
> >8) At the end of the day, many artists, guests, and dealers have been
> >up and at work for 8, 10, or 12 hours straight - frequently without
> >even a single bathroom break. If you want to win points with someone,
> >you might offer to get them something like a coke from the vending
> >machine, or a snack, or something like that.
>
> If I've gone 8 or 12 hours without a bathroom break, the _last_ thing
> I need is a coke.
I'll draw for food at a con.. especially first thing in the morning :)
Preferably those doritos cheese flavour corn snack things...
*murrr*
:)
/------------------------------------------------------
---Foxy!--- / "We must infiltrate, integrate with humans, using our
kp...@coventry.ac.uk / superior talents to gain control of their politics,
fo...@tigerden.com / their media of communication, their legends, their
Artist, furry fan / beliefs, so that, when the times comes, they will have
and Vulpophile! / been seduced to the acceptance of the inevitable, the
-----------------/ era of foxes."
Tygger
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon (ere...@comp.uark.edu) wrote:
: One thing I'd say to those who are doing the sketches also is
: remember these people are admirers and customers, so be polite. Nothing
: can turn away admirers of your work faster than them getting the feeling
: you're a jerk. Case in point, I was a totally mindless Terrie Smith fan,
: until a friend of mine who went to some Con decided to say hello, since I
: had raved about her stuff. Reportedly, she pretty much snubbed him.
: Granted, this his his side, backed up by a few who were with him, but it's
: pretty much killed my interest in her work. I still think she's a decent
: artist, but I don't buy her stuff anymore.
Erf...well, I can't speak for Terrie as I wasn't there, but I offer this:
she is legally blind and could have just simply not seen your friend.
I do try to pay attention to motion around my table, at least make eye
contact. I will fully admit to being hectic and may miss some, but it's
not intentional. But thanks for bringing up that point.
David E Romm
> 2) Be polite. Say "please" and "thank you" and all that other good
> stuff. If you act nice and have good manners at conventions the
> people you meet are much more likely to be nice back.
Generally good advice. I picked this one to respond to, for my own addition:
At most cons, there is a time and place to be an enthusastic fan, and a
great deal more time where even the Guests of Honor want to relax and
enjoy the con.
It's okay to clap at a witty remark... at a panel; or tell someone how
much you like their books... during autograph sessions.
If said person is AT (as opposed to ON) at panel, assume they are there to
hear the panel, not to hold court. If said person is talking among a
group of people in the bar, assume they want to spend time with friends.
The same holds for hucksters, musicians, costumers and so on. You may
(and even are encouraged to) show your appreciation in the proper
circumstances; you may not be intrusive when they're trying to have a good
time.
There are a lot of gray areas, to be sure: In the consuite, at a room
party, in an overflow room, if the person looks like they're holding
court. Be polite and circumspect. A smile is always welcome, and
intelligent comments are prefered over fawning.
Play it by ear: have a good time but don't get in the way of other's good time.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"It is better to be quotable than to be honest."
-- Tom Stoppard
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> Erf...well, I can't speak for Terrie as I wasn't there, but I offer this:
> she is legally blind and could have just simply not seen your friend.
>
> I do try to pay attention to motion around my table, at least make eye
> contact. I will fully admit to being hectic and may miss some, but it's
> not intentional. But thanks for bringing up that point.
Well, by snubbed I mean he introduced himself and mentioned me, to
which she made a face. We had exchanged mail a few times, so maybe she
considered me a nuisance or something, but it was still kind of a souring
tale. At any rate, I just wanted to point out that artists need to try
and be courteous too.
Urthwyse
PeterCat
Recently in alt.fan.furry, tyg...@netcom.com (Tygger) wrote:
>Be a little understanding if the artist is taking a break from work and
>drawing for themselves as a rest: Sometimes drawing for others is a
>draining effort as you try to get the vision of the customer right. Some
>artists, myself included, will take little breaks to doodle for
>themselves to recharge.
Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but... I thought sketches were
*supposed* to be doodles? If someone plops a book in your lap with a laundry
list of they want in their "sketch", that sounds to me more like a
commission. Gee, I'd rather get something you had *fun* drawing, because
that emotion will show through in the work.
--
The Furry InfoPage! http://web.syr.edu/~pjkappes/furry/
pjka...@mailbox.syr.edu (PeterCat) Rhal on FurryMUCK (come cuddle!)
Brian Henderson
ben...@cis.ufl.edu (Paul Bennett) wrote:
>If I might ask, I have not yet been in a position to attend a Con. However
>I have read postings refering to con-goers known as fan-boys in less than
>flattering terms. For that reason, I would ask what constitutes good con
>etiquette? I strongly suspect that good manners and common courtesy would
>cover most situations. Would those of you who vend at con's care to
>comment on further good behaviour.
I've been doing the con thing since the mid-70s or so and I've seen
every bit of bad fan-boy behavior there is. A lot of people treat
fandom as their entire lives and then treat conventions as a place to
run wile, throw inhibitions (as if they had any in the first place) to
the wind and go nuts. That is absolutely ridiculous. A lot of hotels
won't host fannish conventions because they have all sorts of damage
caused by fan-boys pissing in the halls and the like.
Just act like a mature, responsibile human being and you should be
fine. Fun is one thing, acting like a 3-year old in speed is another.
>When I do finally get to attend a con, I would much rather conduct myself to
>be a welcome sight rather than someone that leads vendors to cringe.
Most vendors, particularly artists and writers in this case, don't
mind talking to you but when you try to monopolize their time or, as I
have seen some people do, sit and criticize their work incessantly, it
gets REAL obnoxious. Follow the golden rule and you should be fine.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++==========================================
+ Brian Henderson == Internet: BHen...@microsys.net ==
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++== Cephus on Furrymuck ==
+ Furry Fan, Babylon 5, == and Furtoonia ==
+ MST3K, Atheist, Skeptic, ==========================================
+ Sliders, RPG Gamer, INWO, == I'm not saying what I'm thinking, so ==
+ Herpetophile, Gargoyles == I don't think anyone agrees with me! ==
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++==========================================
+ Alternate Gargoyles Universe Mailing List Archive: ==
+========http://www.microsys.net/personal/bhend/agu.htm/===============
Tygger
PeterCat (pjka...@gamera.syr.edu) wrote:
: Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but... I thought sketches were
: *supposed* to be doodles? If someone plops a book in your lap with a laundry
: list of they want in their "sketch", that sounds to me more like a
: commission. Gee, I'd rather get something you had *fun* drawing, because
: that emotion will show through in the work.
Some artists do just that and don't charge. I don't. I charge for my
sketches in books and do try to give the customer quality for their money.
When I'm at a con, what I make at my table is what I LIVE on while I'm
there. It pays for my hotel room, meals, snacks, and what little
merchandise I do buy for my kids, husband, and self. Also, I tend to
help out those who may need a bit of financial help like floating someone
for dinner, a bit for their room sometimes, and other small things that
can come up for a con.
Now, it can be fun for me when I'm given free rein in a book, as it
sometimes happens, but usually I'm asked to go with the theme or to draw
someone's Muck character. Now it's fun for me lately as I've not been
asked to draw JUST sex illos. In fact, 99% of the illos I did at Duckon
weren't sexual, save for one shower scene and that didn't even show
anything. THAT to me is a refreshing change and it'll show in my art.
Terry Whittier
The reader might wonder what all the emphasis is on bathing?
This last ConFurence was the worst on record for aromatic offenses.
Just a statistical abberation, I'm sure, but enough to make a person walk
through the crowd as if drunk, weaving to avoid all of the funky-smelling
people.
Anyone at a table got the worst of it! As I always mention -- sellers
have to be nice to everybody...no matter how bad they smell!
--
---------------------------------------------
From Terry Whittier in San Jose, CA
---------------------------------------------
Tygger
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon (ere...@comp.uark.edu) wrote:
: Well, by snubbed I mean he introduced himself and mentioned me, to
: which she made a face. We had exchanged mail a few times, so maybe she
: considered me a nuisance or something, but it was still kind of a souring
: tale. At any rate, I just wanted to point out that artists need to try
: and be courteous too.
*blinks* Ah. Erf...not going to touch that one.
But yes, courtesy and such on BOTH sides is what can make the con
enjoyable for all.
Mark Ashworth
Tygger (tyg...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Erf...well, I can't speak for Terrie as I wasn't there, but I offer this:
: she is legally blind and could have just simply not seen your friend.
Whaaaaaattt?!
To be honest, if I hadn't read it from Tygger I would not have belived it!
It sounds like more of the shit that happened late last year....
Glen Wooten
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon (ere...@comp.uark.edu) wrote:
: One thing I'd say to those who are doing the sketches also is
: remember these people are admirers and customers, so be polite. Nothing
: can turn away admirers of your work faster than them getting the feeling
: you're a jerk. Case in point, I was a totally mindless Terrie Smith fan,
: until a friend of mine who went to some Con decided to say hello, since I
: had raved about her stuff. Reportedly, she pretty much snubbed him.
: Granted, this his his side, backed up by a few who were with him, but it's
: pretty much killed my interest in her work. I still think she's a decent
: artist, but I don't buy her stuff anymore.
!?!?!?!? Surf over a few threads for a couple of days, and you'll miss
some interesting stuff...
Without knowing which convention this was, who your friend is, what the
exact situation was, and how she "snubbed" him, I'd have to say that this
sounds pretty wierd. Terrie is very polite to all the fans (unless they
do something to annoy her, at which point she may ignore them, but
passively, not actively...) If someone just pops up and says "Hello", then
she'll certainly say "Hello" back.
Now, admittedly, Terrie has a few medical problems (as we all do these
days...), and they do tend to peak right around important times, like
conventions, but it generally doesn't change the politeness level. With
her arthritis, it may make black books an impossibility, but if she's
really feeling bad, you'll just see me at the table, I'd have sent her
home/to the room.
If your friend would like to contact me, I'd be happy to talk to him...
--
jag...@netcom.com
(alternate: jag...@pro-amber.cts.com)
Stormwind
Terry Whittier wrote:
> The reader might wonder what all the emphasis is on bathing?
> This last ConFurence was the worst on record for aromatic offenses.
this alone has been the largest block
preventing me from attending a confurence.
i have a very sensitive nose, IC and OOC,
and there is simply NO excuse for people
who don't bathe. this is not the dark ages.
you will not get sick from getting wet once
a day. in fact, you will do yourself a
FAVOR by bathing once a day...and you will
become SIGNIFICANTLY more popular if you do.
>Just a statistical abberation, I'm sure, but enough to make a person walk
>through the crowd as if drunk, weaving to avoid all of the funky-smelling
>people.
faugh. i'd love to attend some of the drawing
seminars and such, but it's pointless if
i spend the entire time retching because
some idiot hasn't taken a bath for a week.
--
stormwind
hell's amazon
lord of the frozen realm
Matt J. McCullar
>Tygger (tyg...@netcom.com) wrote:
>Whaaaaaattt?!
Well, that's what made most people think it was a hoax immediately after the
message hit the net. The rumor was that Terrie had died while driving a car.
Fact is, her vision isn't good enough to allow her to drive.
"You see this knife!?"
"Not very clearly, no..."
-- Nuns on the Run
Anime Crisis
> 1) BATHE at least once a day. You'd be surprised how many con-goers
> go an entire three-day convention without taking a single shower, much
> less wash their hands. Make sure to change clothes at least once a
> day.
Boy oh boy,is this the ABSOLUTE truth!!As a costumer,I've always got
people around me, and when the smell is too bad, I get "a little cranky"
and leave the area ASAP.I try to be polite, but hell, if fanboys were
polite, they'd BATHE.
> 2) Be polite. Say "please" and "thank you" and all that other good
> stuff. If you act nice and have good manners at conventions the
> people you meet are much more likely to be nice back.
YES! can't agree more!
>
> 5) If a group of people are going out to eat, or if there is a
> private room party going on, don't just invite yourself to go along.
> Make sure to ASK first if it alright to tag along.
>
I have had (more times than I can remember) a group of friends and I going
to get food out, and the tag-along always happens.A few good people have
been met, and con frindships strengthened,but on the whole, a clueless
wonder you woulden't invite to your HOUSE is tagging along with
you.UUGGGHHHH!
A good thing, is to ask!
> 6) If you attend a room party or eat anything in the con suite, make
> sure to leave a little something in the kitty to defray costs. Not
> much - maybe a dollar or so - but every little bit helps.
Alot of people forget that food costs money, even at a con.I co-run the
Dragon Ball Party Room (tm) at AnAm and hopefully Expo this year, and we
run a damn good party ,if you ask me. Alot of thought and pre-planning
goes into it, and when ONE(yes, you know WHO you are..) fanboy cleans us
out of potato chips in 30 minutes, well it's frustrating, to say the
least.Then said person moves like a twister, and is gone a quick as he'd
shown himself.GGGRRRRRRRRR.........
I HATE to call a spade a spade, but this "fanboy attitude" has always been
prevailent in Anime Fandom.Granted, alot of other cons get them, but
maybe there is a higher percentage of mundanes at a San Diego Comic
Con,or World Con.
(I'm gonna try to make it to WC this year, so I'll see first hand, huh?)
With Anime becoming more commonplace, it's dismaying to see this.
Another note:
People in costume, especially WOMEN(yes, we're here..) DO NOT enjoy being
asked rude and uncalled for questions, like:
Are your breasts real???
Can I touch them?
Have you ever considered doing:(whatever twisted character they're
currently in lust with)
This wiil get you kicked out from that con quicker than anything.Yes, I've
been asked all those questions before, and many more.(i'll also
considering SLAPPING
any jerk who says this to me this year, so BE WARNED!!!)
That's all I can think of for now.I'm not a mean person(can't tell by this post?
meet me at Anime Expo and learn the truth!)
Lisa "Kei" Nelson
gog...@wizard.com
Elin Wink
Ooh boy-- what a fun thread to happen across!
The whole tag-along bit was what got to me-- as a gal who does costuming,
I just experienced this at Project A-kon. But the guy wasn't trying to tag
along to dinner or a party-- I was on my way to the ladies room! Needless
to say, I went to use the one in my hotel room, and my bodyguard was kind
enough to look menacing and tough. Also, I find tagalongs irritating
because I *work* at conventions, so I want to spend my dinners with the
friends I haven't seen for a year, and I do not want someone showing me
pages just as I'm trying to scoop up some pasta. Things could get messy...
;) Think about it- after a long day of being on your feet (and I always
wear high heels at cons- they make me taller!) and basically doing a
strange portable version of your day-job while also trying to make sales,
write receipts, carry on four or five conversations at once and keep an
eye on the merchandise, would you want to go out to dinner at a nice
restaurant or go to a room party and do MORE WORK? I apologize if this
comes off a little too attitude-y, but it's really just common sense.
Something else of note- I've had the wonderful opportunity to meet a lot
of professionals who I admire, and had great conversations with them. Most
of them even remember who I am from con to con! ;) The key to this, I
think, is that I didn't just talk about their work. Remember, this is
their day-job. It's what they do for a living in many cases. In all the
cases where I've had the best conversations with pros, I've talked about
other stuff I've read or heard they were interested in! ( For example,
Jaime Hernandez, who does Love and Rockets, and I talked about women's
wrestling. I DIDN'T talk about good girl art or Bettie Page when I met
Dave Stevens.) I'm not the most famous person in the world, but I know
that if someone at a con talks to me about something besides funny animals
or manga, I'll usually be more inclined to perk up! ;)
I think a lot of fans also don't realize that many of us pros are burnt
out before we even get to the con- we've usually been preparing for days,
packing stuff, working extra hard so we can take the time off, etc. And
that doesn't even count travel time! So by the time we get there, we're
already tired!
Anyway, I've blathered on long enough and probably annoyed enough people
with my remarks. I do agree heartily though, that manners at cons are very
important, and everyone (fan and pro alike!) should always try to use
them!
Niao!
Elin
"Never underestimate the power of an intelligent blonde. We can't be
stopped with conventional weapons." -Eleanor, from Charlie Wise's Blue
Moon
Elisabeth B. SHaw
Terry Whittier wrote:
>
> The reader might wonder what all the emphasis is on bathing?
> This last ConFurence was the worst on record for aromatic offenses.
> through the crowd as if drunk, weaving to avoid all of the funky-smelling
> people.
> have to be nice to everybody...no matter how bad they smell!
"Here's a bar of soap, a tube of toothpaste, a toothbrush, a washcloth
and a bottle of shampoo. Now take a shower, brush your teeth and don't
come back until you do."
Aki. :3
(holding her nose)
"Body odor in the stands...fifty yards...and stay there!"
Mark Ashworth
On Thu, 13 Jun 1996, Glen Wooten wrote:
> In article <4poi1e$m...@globe.indirect.com> you wrote:
> : Tygger (tyg...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
> : : Erf...well, I can't speak for Terrie as I wasn't there, but I offer this:
> : : she is legally blind and could have just simply not seen your friend.
>
> : Whaaaaaattt?!
>
> : To be honest, if I hadn't read it from Tygger I would not have belived it!
> : It sounds like more of the shit that happened late last year....
>
> What are you talking about, Mark?
I was surprised by the idea of a blind person being able to draw so well;
the concept is much like a deaf person playing music (but then, on
reflection, Beethoven did compose while unable to hear a note).
A friend has explained to me the difference between "legally" blind and
"medically" blind since my post. He also knew enough about Terrie to
explain to me that she can see with her glasses, but her astigmatism is so
severe that her vision is limited. I hope he was telling me the strait
info, and that I'm not embarrasing myself.
As for the "shit," I was refering to the infamous--and totally
false--"Terrie Smith is Dead" post that appearred in alt.fan.furry. With
my incomplete knowledge on the subject Tygger's post seemed just as
literally incredible as that one, although I did know she wouldn't try to
tweak our sensibilities for amusement.
I appologize to anyone who may have been offended by the post. It was not
my intent to alarm anyone.
Matt J. McCullar
In article <jaguar1D...@netcom.com> jag...@netcom.com (Glen Wooten) writes:
>
>Well, to be correct, Terrie COULD get a license to drive, but she'd
>rather not. My mother had a license to drive for 2 years (back in the
>40's...), but then said "The people of New York are safer without me on
>the road." Never stopped her from slamming on the imaginary brake every
>time I drove her someplace...
>--
>
Sounds like my great-great-grandmother. (This was back in the 1930's.) She
drove a car exactly once, then had (she said) the same horrifying nightmare
three nights running about... well, she never drove again.
Bud Abbot and Lou Costello liked to change their personal biographies during
interviews, and Abbot liked to joke at times that they met while he was racing
cars. Fact was, though, that he never drove a car in his life.
Jeff Mancebo
boojum *giggles*, "Another point that just occured to me. Feet
Sweat."
He bounces about with a happy grin on his face, "Your on your feet
for hours, running back and forth to see everything. You get a chance to
sit down. You hook one foot on the base of your other shoe and pop it off
your foot. A slightly damp, salty, stinky scent fills the air and you
grin apologetically at everyone around you, your sock leaves dampspots on
the shiny floor."
He shakes his head, "BAD idea... If you bring foot powder and/or
shoe inserts you won't have this problem. Also, even if your tennis don't
smell while dry, when you sweat it likely activates whats dried into the
insides of it. Befor you go to con WASH your shoes! If they are not
machine washable use a rag. Bring extra socks and change them throughout
the day. Always wear clean socks. If you find yourself picking up a sock
and smelling it to see if it's ok to wear, you didn't bring enough socks
and should NOT wear it!
boojum the brown bunny
Tygger
: : Erf...well, I can't speak for Terrie as I wasn't there, but I offer this:
: : she is legally blind and could have just simply not seen your friend.
: Whaaaaaattt?!
: To be honest, if I hadn't read it from Tygger I would not have belived it!
: It sounds like more of the shit that happened late last year....
*nods* She is but is able to see just fine with her glasses/contacts. I
only offered that as a possiblity to the snubbing mentioned by Urthwyne
(apologies if I misspelled)'s friend. I do know her peripheral vision is
a bit off at times as I've stood by her side sometimes and she's not seen
me until I take a step further into her vision field or she turns. *grins*
And most of y'all know how large a person I am.
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> Boy oh boy,is this the ABSOLUTE truth!!As a costumer,I've always got
> people around me, and when the smell is too bad, I get "a little cranky"
> and leave the area ASAP.I try to be polite, but hell, if fanboys were
> polite, they'd BATHE.
> > 2) Be polite. Say "please" and "thank you" and all that other good
> > stuff. If you act nice and have good manners at conventions the
> > people you meet are much more likely to be nice back.
>
> prevailent in Anime Fandom.Granted, alot of other cons get them, but
> maybe there is a higher percentage of mundanes at a San Diego Comic
> Con,or World Con.
This is one reason I've never attended a con. I almost did once,
but I doubt I would have enjoyed it much. I have a friend who owns a
comic store and, when in the hometown, we sit around and doodle, or trash
the bad art in most comics now. I don't really read anything non-furry,
and even that is pretty much nil now.
Aaannnyway... I see enough fanboys come and go in the times that I
am there to know that I don't think I could retain my sanity in a large
crowd of them. My particular peeves are the vampire idiots who never seem
to be themselves, but are always in some RPG character. It IS fun to use
that to annoy them, though.
"So you're a vampire?"
"Yes."
"It's 1PM, what the hell are you doing out?"
"Well, I.."
"Vampires can't go out in sun, right?"
"Well, that is..."
"So what the hell are you doing out?"
Or, if they're playing Masquerade, and stalking you around the
place with that little hand symbol that means you can't see them or
something, start giving them a hard time. Just defy all of those rules
about names and whatnot. Tres' cool.
At any rate, I doubt I could last long at a con without initiating
an undeclared game of live Duke Nukem (or Doom) with live ammo. Or at
least raiding the sporting goods store.
"Duh-nuh-nuh-nuh BATMAN!!!" WHACK!
Urthwyse
Glen Wooten
Matt J. McCullar (sat...@isrc.net) wrote:
: >Tygger (tyg...@netcom.com) wrote:
: >: Erf...well, I can't speak for Terrie as I wasn't there, but I offer this:
: >: she is legally blind and could have just simply not seen your friend.
: >Whaaaaaattt?!
: >To be honest, if I hadn't read it from Tygger I would not have belived it!
: >It sounds like more of the shit that happened late last year....
: Well, that's what made most people think it was a hoax immediately after the
: message hit the net. The rumor was that Terrie had died while driving a car.
: Fact is, her vision isn't good enough to allow her to drive.
Well, to be correct, Terrie COULD get a license to drive, but she'd
rather not. My mother had a license to drive for 2 years (back in the
40's...), but then said "The people of New York are safer without me on
the road." Never stopped her from slamming on the imaginary brake every
time I drove her someplace...
--
jag...@netcom.com
(alternate: jag...@pro-amber.cts.com)
Amara
>
>
> Good advice, Tygger. Especially regarding sketching time. Guestimated
> times often have a way of going by the wayside during sales and small chats.
>
>
> Bringing an artist a simple soda or cookie can go a long ways towards
> making a friend for life. We can't get out to get lunch or catch panels,
> movies, or whatever when we are manning a table.
>
> Another goody that surprises an artist is to give 'em a good quality
> pad of paper, acid free, bristol board (plate or smooth finish). It's
> surprising how fast paper goes at a con, even if you plan for it.
>
>
>
<Holds up a sign that says : will work for all U can Eat Pizza Hut and
anythign with Caffeine. ;)>
M Panthera
What an interesting thread to sumble on..
Anyway, just thought I'd add my on complaint about soem people at cons.
You know the type. The "know it all" who is going to tell you in the most
detail about whatever trivail project he, or she is currently working on.
And does so incestenly, so much so thst they do not know th meaning of the
term "Shut up". Not noly this but they can't ever seem to let you get a
word no matter what you do.
and they always seem to latch on to whatever pro that they think are their
friends, and proceed to blather on about whatever stupid idae they they
migh have....
Sound like anybody you know?
M Panthera
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
Well, after various points of input on the subject of a friend of
mine being treated rudely by Terrie Smith, it would appear that the person
he was "snubbed" by was, in fact, NOT Terrie Smith. I apologize for any
confusion this may have caused for others, and to Terrie herself.
Hope that clears it up.
Urthwyse
Mark Freid
On Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:06:24 GMT, tyg...@netcom.com (Tygger) wrote:
>: Bringing an artist a simple soda or cookie can go a long ways towards
>: making a friend for life. We can't get out to get lunch or catch panels,
>: movies, or whatever when we are manning a table.
This works too. I had a person at CF7 ask for a sketch, and she didn't
have enough money. I was a bit thirsty, and she offered to trade a
coke... so I took the deal. :)
-Mark
=============================================
Mark Freid ("Canuss") Wolf, Cartoonist, Loony
=============================================
Web: http://www.av.qnet.com/~canuss
Email: can...@qnet.com
"Canuss" on GEnie's Beastie Board & FurryMUCK!
==============================================
Elspeth Kovar Burgess
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon wrote:
> This is one reason I've never attended a con.
> Aaannnyway... I see enough fanboys come and go in the times that I
> am there to know that I don't think I could retain my sanity in a large
> crowd of them.
And *you're* making cracks about names? <g>
Seriously, you will see some of the same people at a con that you'll see
in a comic book store, but you'll see a *lot* of other people as well.
If you've been reading this for a while, can you imagine Patrick, or
Gary, or Urlika, or me, just to pick a few, wandering around making
little hand gestures and thinking that everyone else is going to play
along with our fantasy?
I don't know the percentages, but I think that 'fanboys' are in the
minority. Any other opinions?
Elspeth
Elspeth Kovar Burgess
Anime Crisis wrote:
> ... Alot of thought and pre-planning
> goes into it, and when ONE(yes, you know WHO you are..) fanboy cleans us
> out of potato chips in 30 minutes, well it's frustrating, to say the
> least.Then said person moves like a twister, and is gone a quick as he'd
> shown himself.GGGRRRRRRRRR.........
May I add to this?
Don't stand by the food table, blocking traffic, shoving food into your
mouth, and *scattering crumbs all over the floor*!
1) Other people can't get to the food.
2) Shortly there is little food left.
3) Although it sounds trivial; it leaves a Hell of a mess to be cleaned
up.
4) Such behaviour is just unpleasent to be around.
Luckily, this is not as common as it used to be. Or maybe I'm going to a
better class of party.
Elspeth
Tygger
Mark Ashworth (mtmo...@bud.indirect.com) wrote:
: I was surprised by the idea of a blind person being able to draw so well;
: the concept is much like a deaf person playing music (but then, on
: reflection, Beethoven did compose while unable to hear a note).
: A friend has explained to me the difference between "legally" blind and
: "medically" blind since my post. He also knew enough about Terrie to
: explain to me that she can see with her glasses, but her astigmatism is so
: severe that her vision is limited. I hope he was telling me the strait
: info, and that I'm not embarrasing myself.
Whoops! Sorry, an assumption on my part, hon, of people knowing the
definition of legal blindness. Didn't mean to startle you like that.
*snugs* But yes, your friend is right concerning her eyesight.
: As for the "shit," I was refering to the infamous--and totally
: false--"Terrie Smith is Dead" post that appearred in alt.fan.furry. With
: my incomplete knowledge on the subject Tygger's post seemed just as
: literally incredible as that one, although I did know she wouldn't try to
: tweak our sensibilities for amusement.
*blinks* My apologies on that again, hon. *grins and blushes* Thank
you for the trust, hon.
: I appologize to anyone who may have been offended by the post. It was not
: my intent to alarm anyone.
*snugs understandingly*
Karl F. Meyers
sat...@isrc.net (Matt J. McCullar) wrote:
>>Tygger (tyg...@netcom.com) wrote:
>>: Erf...well, I can't speak for Terrie as I wasn't there, but I offer this:
>>: she is legally blind and could have just simply not seen your friend.
>>Whaaaaaattt?!
>>To be honest, if I hadn't read it from Tygger I would not have belived it!
>>It sounds like more of the shit that happened late last year....
>Well, that's what made most people think it was a hoax immediately after the
>message hit the net. The rumor was that Terrie had died while driving a car.
>Fact is, her vision isn't good enough to allow her to drive.
Remember, "legally blind" does not mean total blindness. I think the
law defines it as the limit at which you cannot see well enough to do
certain tasks, even with corrective lenses; someone feel free to
correct me if I'm wrong.
Of course, considering that fact, it makes Terrie's skill with her
artwork that much more impressive. :)
KFM!
Looking behind me, the water turns icy blue | Karl F. Meyers
The lights are dimmed, and once again | Jacksonville, Florida
The stage is set for you. | kme...@ix.netcom.com
----------------------------------------http://members.aol.com/bjbunny
Karl F. Meyers
cawh...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Chris Whalen) wrote:
>For an artist or dealer's worse nightmare, see the movie "Misery" starring
>James Caan playing a writer who is imprisoned by an obsessive fan (who
>announced to him that she was his "number one fan"). At one point the fan
>breaks his legs to keep him from fleeing.
>Imprisoning and breaking a writer's legs is definitely on the list of
>no-nos for con etiquette. <g>
Ain't that the truth! :)
Seriously, you can also insult your fellow fans that way (hey, if
you're their "number one fan", what does that make the rest of their
following? Human nature rears its ugly head), so it's a good idea to
avoid that comment. A nice, calm "<Name>, I must say that I really
<like/love/enjoy> your <writing/artwork/etc.>" usually works. :)
(IMHO, YMMV)
Karl F. Meyers
Amara <ap...@cleo.murdoch.edu.au> wrote:
>Good Manners shjould go for artists too.. I've heard horror stories of
>artists and/or celebrities at some cons being rude prats. Luckily I have
>yet to run into that... I will say that Terry Pratchett plays a mean game
>of Gravity wars (he beat me 12 times out of 13. waaaah!). Paul Kidd is
>also one of the wonderfully oddest people I have had the pleasure of
>meeting and drawing in his sketchbook... heh.. he was at the same con as
>Terry Pratchett... hee. :) Swancon 18.. what a buzz. :)
>Amara
Most of the artists and "BNFs" I've met at the two CF's I've attended
(so far) were very nice folk. For example, Tygger and Gen Cook were
very amicable, and the dealings I've had with Glen Wooten, Michelle
Light, and Ed Zolna at their dealer's tables were quite pleasant.
They even overlooked my "dazed and confuzzled" states. :)
Of course, it still falls in the "do unto others" category of
behaviour... :)
Karl F. Meyers
can...@qnet.com (Mark Freid) wrote:
>Once you've seen the work, decide. But don't stop there. Think about
>it. If you want a clothed porcupine, and you don't see any porcupines
>in the artists binder, don't leave! After all, just because the artist
>doesn't do them often, doesn't mean he/she can't do them well. And if
>it is an artist you like, you'll be all the happier. A case in point,
>is I was at my table at CF7, when I was asked to do a morphic rabbit.
>I've hardly ever done rabbits, but I drew away, and was very pleased
>with the result (as was the customer)...
If said rabbit was the one wearing the fedora and bomber jacket (i.e.
my B.J. Bunny character)...why, yes, I -was- very pleased with the
result! :) I'm also glad you changed the composition slightly from
the (purposely) brief description I gave you; I think it looks better
your way. Which brings us to the next point:
>On Gen's second point, from the previous example you should know about
>the artists work enough to not pick one that you have to say "draw it
><insert adjective>er!" Every artist has a different style. I asked
>Jeremy Bernal at CFEast to do my Personal furry on a T-shirt. I got
>the shirt shortly thereafter, and it was much different than what I
>expected... but, I was still very happy. It was great! Not because It
>was what I expected, but because it was a great drawing by an artist I
>like... Everyone has their representation. If you must have a drawing
>done "right", then perhaps at a later date you can ask the artist for
>another sketch or commission. Many times have I seen multiple drawings
>by the same artist in the same book.
Very true. Some people might notice the "(purposely) brief
description" comment in my previous comment block; my idea behind that
is to give a general description of what a character looks like, and
then let the artist -intrepret- that in their own style. For example,
let's take my Alexandria Rabine character (another bunny, B.J.'s
missus in the Brawl). In general, she has brown fur "pebbled" with
patches of blonde fur. Two different artists, Scott Alston in the
DBU, and Jimmy Chin at CF7, drew her slightly different (Scott had her
with larger patches of light fur, wereas Jimmy made her sort of a
"spottybunny"). I liked -both- versions. Half the fun is seeing what
others see in your vision, as compared to your own. :)
Karl F. Meyers
boo...@nntp.best.com (Jeff Mancebo) wrote:
> boojum *giggles*, "Another point that just occured to me. Feet
>Sweat."
(Advice on clean shoes and feet deleted)
Of course, it's probably a good rule of thumb to not take off your
shoes in another person's room anyway (sorta makes it look like you're
moving in, yanno? :).
Jeff Mancebo
boojum rolls his eyes as he thinks of another point, "Wash and Dry
your hands BEFOR you go into the Dealers room.. Every time if you can.
It's never happened to me but I can picture nothing worse than going in,
picking up a beutifull print, and finding I'd left greasy fingerprints on
it because I'd eaten a slice of pizza... or because I'd been outside and
the furnature was dirty."
He hugs Tygger, "I really wasn't coming down on you about the whole
Adult Art issue. I got the one from you responding to Timothy Fay befor I
got his. So thats the one I responded to."
boojum the brown bunny
Amara
>
> Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but... I thought sketches were
> *supposed* to be doodles? If someone plops a book in your lap with a laundry
> list of they want in their "sketch", that sounds to me more like a
> commission. Gee, I'd rather get something you had *fun* drawing, because
> that emotion will show through in the work.
I agree there... I'm a fast artist so I can whip up somethign good and
detailed in next to no time, but I won't ask anything for it... other
than maybe food, if I'm hungry. I also like doing fast, fun stuff, which
is what I tend to do in sketchbooks, or a general 'Okay... anything in
particular or do you want me to surprise you?' :)
Amara. :)
Ron Ruffin Dippold
Geez, from reading the thread you might think it was 'CF: Hell on Earth'.
For those who haven't attended and are thinking that maybe it's all one big
stinking cesspit of odor, perversion, debauchery, and smurfs. I've been to
several cons now, and the plusses far outweigh the minuses, enough so that I
would have flown to DucKon if I could have gotten the time last month.
Please follow the advice given and make it even better, but don't be scared
off. The majority of people seemed to me to be pretty well behaved.
--
It is true that nothing is certain except death and taxes. Sometimes I wish
they came in that order. -- Levenson
Kenneth Chisholm
> One thing I'd say to those who are doing the sketches also is
>remember these people are admirers and customers, so be polite. Nothing
>can turn away admirers of your work faster than them getting the feeling
>you're a jerk. Case in point, I was a totally mindless Terrie Smith fan,
>until a friend of mine who went to some Con decided to say hello, since I
>had raved about her stuff. Reportedly, she pretty much snubbed him.
>Granted, this his his side, backed up by a few who were with him, but it's
>pretty much killed my interest in her work. I still think she's a decent
>artist, but I don't buy her stuff anymore.
Well, she told me in a personal letter that she was self taught. The
effect of that claim was to give me the confidence that I could learn
to draw like her. Her talent with a penicil and pen is unsurpassed
with furries and I dreamed that I could be like her.
Then I learned that she was an Art Major at the University of
Tennesse. That's a funny kind of self taught. When I asked for an
explanation (albiet also for an update for when a commision I sent her
could be finished) she sent back my cheque and story with no
explanation as to the offence.
That did great damage to my dream to be an artist, because she
basically misled to me about her training. I can not believe that you
can be "self-taught" and have the formal training be seperate from
that skill. I can't feel I can be like her in quality because I am
not in a position to get the training she did. If any artists
disagree, I would love to hear from you.
That really hurt, Terrie. If my offense was bugging you about the
commision, I apologize for that while reminding you that I didn't
start until 8 months after I sent the cheque. Even then it was less
than once a month.
I still buy her stuff because of the aforementioned reasons, but I
have to balance that with the seperation of the artist from the
individual. It is the basic realization that great artists do not
necessarily mean great people.
If you want to call this self pitying whining, you're free to have
that opinion. I just wanted to get this off my chest that has be
hanging for half a year.
--
*********************Kenneth Chisholm**************************
Love is a Temple
Love, the Higher Law - From One by U2
****************Brantford, Ontario, Canada*********************
Kenneth Chisholm
My apologies as well for quoting from that previous article. I was
not aware that it was in error. However, what I wrote myself still
stands.
Raymond Luxury Yacht
>Anyway, just thought I'd add my on complaint about soem people at cons.
>You know the type. The "know it all" who is going to tell you in the most
>detail about whatever trivail project he, or she is currently working on.
>And does so incestenly, so much so thst they do not know th meaning of the
>term "Shut up". Not noly this but they can't ever seem to let you get a
>word no matter what you do.
>and they always seem to latch on to whatever pro that they think are their
>friends, and proceed to blather on about whatever stupid idae they they
>migh have....
Roz seems to attract these people for some reason. I usually have to
intervene so she can get back to whatever it was she was doing before they
showed up.
Fortunately or unfortunately I seem to have developed a reputation
that makes me relatively effective at doing this, even when I don't actually
say or do anything......
Chris Forsyth
Mark Freid (can...@qnet.com) wrote:
(snip snip snip)
: >-> Sketchbooks <-<
: DO
: "Do you have the time for an ink drawing in my sketchbook?"
:
: (typical artists response: "Certainly. It will take about 1 hour, is
: that okay?" or "I'm sorry, but I have three books I'm working on. If
: you come back in an hour or so, I'll probably be able to take it.")
: DONT
: "Can you (drool) Erma Felna naked? with a CROWBAR?"
: (apoligies to Steve Gallacci and Jim Groat <grin>)
: (typical artists response: "Erma Felna?!?! (esp. if it's not Steve),
: or "I'm sorry, I'm completely backed up right now... maybe at a later
: date..." <then diverts his/her attention>)
(snip again)
: =============================================
: Mark Freid ("Canuss") Wolf, Cartoonist, Loony
: =============================================
: Web: http://www.av.qnet.com/~canuss
: Email: can...@qnet.com
: "Canuss" on GEnie's Beastie Board & FurryMUCK!
: ==============================================
This bit is still going around? What *is* the whole story about this
'Erma Felna with a crowbar' thing, anyway? I've only gotten bits and
pieces of it, along the lines of 'The Picture that Never Existed', but
have never heard the whole thing. If you don't think its'....appropriate
for the NG, feel free to e-mail to me. ;-)
Chris Forsyth
fox...@tsb.weschke.com
Anime Crisis
In article <31C258...@radix.net>, Elspeth Kovar Burgess
<ebur...@radix.net> wrote:
>
> Don't stand by the food table, blocking traffic, shoving food into your
> mouth, and *scattering crumbs all over the floor*!
>
> 1) Other people can't get to the food.
> 2) Shortly there is little food left.
> 3) Although it sounds trivial; it leaves a Hell of a mess to be cleaned
> up.
> 4) Such behaviour is just unpleasent to be around.
>
> Luckily, this is not as common as it used to be. Or maybe I'm going to a
> better class of party.
You must BE! (lucky, lucky) As I stated in my first post, "fanboy tendencies"
have really gotten BAD in Anime fandom.Why? I don't really know, but if a
group of people are wanting a larger # of a certain type of people(i.e.
WOMEN!!) you've gotta show some common courtesy, and a bit of class.Not to
say guys don't mind if other guys are disgusting,but women get scared off
by this kind of stuff.
I HAVE been to Confurence, and it's a close tie for some pretty gross
stuff.Men ARE the predominate sex at them and the B.O is pretty bad at
times.UUGGHHH!
I wish this thread could get over to alt.anime.fandom.cons, as it would be
benifical to them also.Oh well.
ja,
Lisa"Kei" Nelson
gog...@wizard.com
FurryRebel
I meet Terrie Smith at ConFURence East last year, and I fond her to be one
of the nicest person to talk to. I don't remember what we talk about, but
I never got the feeling that she was trying to stub me.
The Furry Rebel
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> I agree there... I'm a fast artist so I can whip up somethign good and
> detailed in next to no time, but I won't ask anything for it... other
> than maybe food, if I'm hungry. I also like doing fast, fun stuff, which
> is what I tend to do in sketchbooks, or a general 'Okay... anything in
> particular or do you want me to surprise you?' :)
> Amara. :)
One of my difficulties with "Oh, surprise me" is then I sit there
wondering what to do. Sometimes the pondering might take longer than the
actual drawing. (While I have very little claim to professional status,
and no reknown as someone like Terrie and Tygger, I have been asked to do
a few sketchbooks. There's one guy in Mississippi who has one of my busty
warrior vixens right next to one of Clive Barker's doodles.)
Of course, since I've typically drawn for non-furries, they have
no idea what to ask for, since they don't know about 'em.
Urthwyse
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> let's take my Alexandria Rabine character (another bunny, B.J.'s
> missus in the Brawl). In general, she has brown fur "pebbled" with
> patches of blonde fur. Two different artists, Scott Alston in the
> DBU, and Jimmy Chin at CF7, drew her slightly different (Scott had her
> with larger patches of light fur, wereas Jimmy made her sort of a
> "spottybunny"). I liked -both- versions. Half the fun is seeing what
> others see in your vision, as compared to your own. :)
That's an experiment I'd like to try if I ever got to a Con (or,
more likely, one came close enough for me to go easily) is to do up a sort
of "neutral" (meaning enough to display characteristics of a character)
picture of a character and then see other artists' variation on that
character. I'd especially like to see versions of my bear persona and one
of my female bunny characters as done by Terrie Smith, Vicky Wyman, and
Eric Schwartz.
Urthwyse
Tygger
Elspeth Kovar Burgess (ebur...@radix.net) wrote:
: I don't know the percentages, but I think that 'fanboys' are in the
: minority. Any other opinions?
*thinks about this carefully so she doesn't confuse herself again* Yes
and no. I think it depends on what con you go to and the Name you have.
*winces* That didn't come across right...let me try and define.
CF7 I had quite a few and just disappeared from my table from the
afternoon til closing of the dealer's room on Sat. ConDor (local San
Diego con) not a one. Duckon, only one and he was easily handled with a
MomLook(tm) and stern tone. SDCC, well, I'll admit to expecting a few,
but as I know who they are I know how to handle them.
Where I've had fanboys find me and be a small/large pain is on FurryMuck.
I've been chatting privately or semi-privately with friends and suddenly
get a whereis prompt out of the blue from someone I don't even know.
Gods, I HATE that and find it rude. It's why I'm set unfindable with a
semi-serious message, changed from the realy spammy and MomTone(tm) I had
before. I've had them pester me to come visit them, just drop all I'm
doing and go to them like I owe them something for their liking/interest
in my work. An artist friend of mine just had a fanboy demand the same,
pestering him to come to the West Park. All the fanboy wanted to do was
say Hi. Hmp, could have done that in pages. Now don't get me wrong, I
don't mind pages out of the blue saying hello and chatting that way, or
if the fan finds me in the semi-private room I normally hang out in and
chats there. What I DO mind is when I'm whereis'd out of blue, people
poking their nose into my privacy, or when the fan gives the impression
they'd like to have free art for their liking of my work. Now, I know it
could just be enthusiasm on the fan's part, but sometimes in a text
environment it's hard to really tell. *chuckles* I've had fanboys bitch
at me for being whereis unfind, for being hidden on watchfor, for not
being where they can find me easily. Sure, I could get an alt character
and hide out, and I have done it. But it just didn't feel right.
*shrugs* I guess there's fanboys here and there, sometimes in high
concentration, sometimes not. The mucks and cons have their own fair
share and I guess it depends on who one is in the fandom as to the type
and number of fanboys one encounters.
[tosses off her two bits and heads off to doodle some more Kyootie pinups]
Tygger
Jeff Mancebo (boo...@nntp.best.com) wrote:
: boojum rolls his eyes as he thinks of another point, "Wash and Dry
: your hands BEFOR you go into the Dealers room.. Every time if you can.
: It's never happened to me but I can picture nothing worse than going in,
: picking up a beutifull print, and finding I'd left greasy fingerprints on
: it because I'd eaten a slice of pizza... or because I'd been outside and
: the furnature was dirty."
*grins* That's why I have my print demos in plastic sheets and have a
folio demo. But yeah, good advice.
: He hugs Tygger, "I really wasn't coming down on you about the whole
: Adult Art issue. I got the one from you responding to Timothy Fay befor I
: got his. So thats the one I responded to."
*snugs back* No problem, hon. Your post got me to figure out where I'm
standing in all of this. I'm really just a middle of the road artists
and person in this fandom. I'd really like to see an equal playing
field, room for us all no matter the Name, fan, fetish, or whatever
floats your boat. No using of the anthros to push agendas, using of them
to define the fandom. People behaving, all of us behaving for we are all
the ambassadors for our fandom and are what/who the others outside will
judge us all by.
godz...@feist.com
Get a grip, or a life.
As a regular collaborator of Terrie's, and a friend for over 10 years,
I don't mind saying that, yes, I did find your posting to be one
protracted whine.
Point # 1 : Yes, Terrie is "self taught." She began drawing from
examples, at a fairly young age. Many artists pro and fan, have gone this
route. This is where you begin forming a style and learning points such
as [perspective, shading and anatomy. That she later had some formal
training is not especially germain to the issue. Formal training is an
augmentation, when you undertake it later in the game. Too, it is of
variable value. It helps some artists and blocks and restricts other.
The "Terrie Smith style" was established before this point, and
through considerable experimentation and personal effort.
Assuming that practising for years will give you a given degree of
skill and polish is unreasonable. As an instance, I worked as a fan
artist for some 15 years before gravitating into small press comics and
then regular, paying work as an inker. I freely admit I couldn't draw a
furry character to save my life. I'm too vague on facial planes as they
apply in anthropomorphics. This is in spite of some degree of formal
training in high school. I get by as a writer and inker, but though I'd
wanted to get involved with furry work for those prior 15 years, if I'd
waited to "get good enough," I'd have never worked the field. By
adapting, I'm approaching the 50th. project I've worked on over the last
3 years. Far busier than I';d have dreamed or hoped for.
Point 2 : Terrie is VASTLY overloaded with commissioned work. Last I
heard, her back-up was to the tune of two years. This has to fit in with
other obligations which include art chores on RED SHETLAND, our work on
KATMANDU, and the art on our next project, HAVOC, INC.
When you go into commissioning a piece or pieces from her, you ought
to ASK, if you haven't heard rumors. I know I waited a couple of years
for some shirts, once. The waiting game does get old, true, but sometimes
it's part of the game. As a matter of fact, the time factor is a fgood
thing to check prior to sending money to any artist, as schedules and
commitments change frequently. Call it common sense.
It's far easier and more civil to take the time to ASK, if you believe
a problem is setting up, than to brood and then let loose at some former
time.
As for Terrie snubbing people, I can agree with Glen on her health at
conventions, having journeyed to the Chicago WORLDCON to meet her. Sge
was ill throughout the convention, and we only got a brief time to get
together to discuss story revions and other projects. Gioven how sick she
WAS, I'd have pardoned her for walking out on pressing fans. However,
Terrie is too much of a class act for that behavior. If she failed to
meet some fanboy's expectations, I'd suggest this seems more a personal
problem on his part than a failing on hers. They're called "reasonable
expectations," folks.
Mark Barnard
FlashCat Productions
Chris Whalen
In article <4pthra$q...@news.bellglobal.com>, chi...@pop.eclec.Com
(Kenneth Chisholm) wrote:
> Well, she told me in a personal letter that she was self taught. The
> effect of that claim was to give me the confidence that I could learn
> to draw like her. Her talent with a penicil and pen is unsurpassed
> with furries and I dreamed that I could be like her.
>
> Then I learned that she was an Art Major at the University of
> Tennesse. That's a funny kind of self taught. When I asked for an
> explanation (albiet also for an update for when a commision I sent her
> could be finished) she sent back my cheque and story with no
> explanation as to the offence.
>
> That did great damage to my dream to be an artist, because she
> basically misled to me about her training. I can not believe that you
> can be "self-taught" and have the formal training be seperate from
> that skill. I can't feel I can be like her in quality because I am
> not in a position to get the training she did. If any artists
> disagree, I would love to hear from you.
It's possible to go to art school and still be mostly self-taught. I
learned human anatomy and inking from art books, Jack Hamm's How to Draw
the Human Figure, studying my own anatomy in the mirror, etc. When I
attended a human anatomy class in college, the professor was so impressed
with my drawings that she asked who taught me. I did have a few bugs in
the way I drew people though -- the professor pointed out that I was
drawing the feet too big. Art school helped me with some of my weak
areas.
The art classes I took didn't teach me how to do layout, pencils, inking,
and lettering for a comic book page; I learned that on my own, and read
advice from other comic book artists. I learned the basics of lettering a
comics page from a magazine article on lettering by the creators of
ElfQuest.
Art school alone can't teach you how to be a good artist -- you must
practice often on your own. The more you draw, the better you'll get. I
spent my summer vacations drawing a lot in my sketchbooks. I consider art
school to be just another tool to improve my art; it supplemented my art
books, advice/feedback from peers and family, observing people and
animals, and lots and lots of practice. I consider myself mostly
self-taught even though I was an Art major. There are a lot of art
projects I've had to do for school that I considered a big waste of my
time. Also, there are people who graduate from art school who still stink
as artists.
It's been five years since I graduated from college, and I'm still
learning and improving in my art. It's a continual process. I've been
teaching myself how to draw since before high school; when I was a kid, I
did watercolors of my toys and interesting caterpillers I found in the
back yard. I certainly wouldn't give credit for developing my art to an
art school.
Lastly, art school can teach you the skills and tools, but it can't teach
you imagination. Personally, I always thought art schools overall were
too constrictive -- the classes I had the most fun in were the ones that
gave me free rein with my imagination. I also enjoyed the human anatomy
class with the live models.
BTW, I wouldn't be flattered if someone said to me, "I want to draw just
like you." That's oversimplifying the process of becoming an artist. The
would-be artist should be looking at and studying a wide range of artists'
styles and techniques, and not just attempting to copycat one particular
artist.
Besides, if you did learn to draw like Terrie Smith, people will accuse
you of being a "Terrie Smith clone", and of possessing no style or
imagination of your own.
-- Chris
Chris Whalen
In article <gogeta-1506...@ppp-68-pm3.wizard.com>,
gog...@wizard.com (Anime Crisis) wrote:
> You must BE! (lucky, lucky) As I stated in my first post, "fanboy tendencies"
> have really gotten BAD in Anime fandom.Why? I don't really know, but if a
> group of people are wanting a larger # of a certain type of people(i.e.
> WOMEN!!) you've gotta show some common courtesy, and a bit of class.Not to
> say guys don't mind if other guys are disgusting,but women get scared off
> by this kind of stuff.
> I HAVE been to Confurence, and it's a close tie for some pretty gross
> stuff.Men ARE the predominate sex at them and the B.O is pretty bad at
> times.UUGGHHH!
This morning I had to dispose of a package of rotten hamburger meat that
somebody left sitting on the kitchen counter for a day and a half -- do
the Confurence fans with B.O. smell THAT bad? (Please say no.) I haven't
been to a fandom conference yet.
-- Chris
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> Well, she told me in a personal letter that she was self taught. The
> effect of that claim was to give me the confidence that I could learn
> to draw like her. Her talent with a penicil and pen is unsurpassed
> with furries and I dreamed that I could be like her.
It is possible to attain a style similar to another. The
influences of Terrie's work on Tygger are pretty apparent, since they do
look pretty similar. (Either that, or someone else influenced both of
them. I mean this as no offense to Tygger, they just do look similar to
my eye.)
I personally don't think it's a good idea to set out to emulate
another's style, though. Of course, other's work will influence yours,
but it's good to find your own variations on what you like about someone
else's stuff. Terrie was a big influence on my work for a while, but then
I decided I didn't want my stuff to look like hers, I wanted it to look
like mine. One thing that remains that I took from her though was the use
of the ears as instruments of expression, and the little tufts inside
them. Granted, that could come from just observing animals, but Terrie's
work is where I first realized those things.
> basically misled to me about her training. I can not believe that you
> can be "self-taught" and have the formal training be seperate from
> that skill. I can't feel I can be like her in quality because I am
> not in a position to get the training she did. If any artists
> disagree, I would love to hear from you.
Oh, it's entirely possible to be self-taught and formerly trained.
While I don't have an art degree, I was an art major for two years before
switching majors. Most of the stuff you learn in art classes deals with
form, contrast, how to use colors (any art majors remember doing an
assignment where you had to do a painting from a photo, and match the
colors EXACTLY by mixing only red, yellow, blue, and white?), how to
observe your subject, setting up the page, mediums, etc etc etc. Most of
what I got from the classes I took was technical stuff.
Cartooning and anatomy, on the other hand, I was entirely
self-taught. By high school, I had a better grasp of anatomy than most of
my fellow students in my college classes. I actually took medical anatomy
(cadaver and all) to help my artistic anatomy. (Hey, Michelangelo did
it.)
On top of all of that, a lot of art teachers are your "fine arts"
types. They place a lot of emphasis on abstract art stuff. My desire to
do work like the Old Masters was frowned upon. I was actually told once,
by my art teacher that, "Cartooning is a stupid waste of time and
talent." (Oh, did I mention that most art teachers don't have any real
talent? Anyone can draw, few are actually talented at it.)
In light of this, my guess is that anyone that wants to do
cartooning, especially something non-mainstream like furries, has to be
self-taught to some degree, since they'll probably get little or no
encouragement from your typical art teachers. (There are a few rare ones,
though.)
> I still buy her stuff because of the aforementioned reasons, but I
> have to balance that with the seperation of the artist from the
> individual. It is the basic realization that great artists do not
> necessarily mean great people.
In all fairness, it's really not Terrie's stuff specifically that
I stopped buying, but most furry stuff in general. With the good artist
producing very little, you exhaust your supply of the stuff worth getting
very quickly. As I analyzed Terrie's stuff more, I did come to realize
some stuff I could nit-pick at, but she's still head and shoulders about
most out there, with the possible exception of Vicky Wyman, who's stuff I
still get pretty mindlessly (though the ink jobs in Across Diamond Seas
butchered her style). Besides, you gotta love that Empress Alicia.
Yowza!
My two claws worth,
Urthwyse
"A true nature lover is a person who can be treed by a bear, and
sit there enjoying the view."
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> Assuming that practising for years will give you a given degree of
> skill and polish is unreasonable.
I'm not sure if I'm reading that sentence right, but practicing
for years, IMO, is what gives you that level of polish, in your own style.
The formal training is valuable in learning techniques and becoming aware
of the different medium types (I guess that would be the "skill" portion),
but practice, practice, practice is the key.
As far as the "Terrie Smith style," I think that's true of
anybody- their style will probably established in those formative years of
one's drawing. It is interesting to see someone's work as it is evolving,
though. I don't keep many old drawings, but it's interesting to see what
my stuff looks like that now and then. It used to be very animeish, but
now has a more clean, angular animation style, like in Balto. I love what
Shon has done with his work.
There's a thought for artist portfolios to sell- "The Evolution
of <insert artist's name here>."
Of course, this whole thing is getting way off of the original
track. The whole issuse of the "snubbing" and whatnot was apparently a
misunderstanding. (Note: don't listen to your friend's opinion of an
artist's personality). The original post was meant to point out that, not
only fans need be mindful of their manners, but the artists as well.
Urthwyse
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> I meet Terrie Smith at ConFURence East last year, and I fond her to be one
> of the nicest person to talk to. I don't remember what we talk about, but
> I never got the feeling that she was trying to stub me.
"Stub" you? (Has a mental image of Terrie trying to whack this
guy in the toe with a bat.)
Just to reiterate, the whole thing seemed to be a big
misunderstanding based in a tale from a guy who apparently didn't even get
the right person. I presumed it was true because I was concerned that my
persistence with our correspondence might be viewed as the ramblings of a
dottering fanboy, rather than someone interested in an exchange of ideas
and stuff.
Besides, last summer marked the end of a 2 year period of being
"entirely not myself."
At any rate, I'm sure Terrie's a swell person.
Urthwyse
Goldfur
On 15 Jun 1996, Ron Ruffin Dippold wrote:
> Geez, from reading the thread you might think it was 'CF: Hell on
> Earth'. For those who haven't attended and are thinking that maybe it's
> all one big stinking cesspit of odor, perversion, debauchery, and
> smurfs. I've been to several cons now, and the plusses far outweigh the
> minuses, enough so that I would have flown to DucKon if I could have
> gotten the time last month. Please follow the advice given and make it
> even better, but don't be scared off. The majority of people seemed to
> me to be pretty well behaved.
I am in 100% agreement with this. Take it from someone who has flown over
the Pacific three times so far (and a 4th to come) that ConFurence has
been nothing but a positive experience for me. I certainly would not be
wasting a _lot_ of money and time to attend otherwise. I am not denying
that some unpleasant things have happened, but I will point out that I was
having to much of a good time going from one great activity to another, or
visiting any number of friends, to go out and look for the downside.
There has been a lot of discussion lately about the less wonderful aspects
of the con lately. How about instead we promote all the good points?
--
Chakat Goldfur: "I don't bite, I PURR!"
[ Bernard Doove - Melbourne, Australia ]
Gary Farber
Anime Crisis (gog...@wizard.com) wrote:
<snip>
: You must BE! (lucky, lucky) As I stated in my first post, "fanboy tendencies"
: have really gotten BAD in Anime fandom.Why?
It would be rude for me to speculate about the temporary failings of a
daughter fandom (furry fandom and anime fandom both essentially deriving
from origins in sf fandom), but I'd suggest that these are flaws both of
a young fandom that has not had much time to develop normative social
pressures, and of fandoms that tend to particularly appeal to the young.
Further speculation would definitely be rude.
You might want to try spacing after you finish a sentence and before you
begin another, by the way; I prefer the traditional two spaces, myself.
:-)
<snip>
: I wish this thread could get over to alt.anime.fandom.cons, as it would be
: benifical to them also.Oh well.
Is there such a newsgroup? If so, post a pointer if you prefer to not
cross-post. However, if your goal is to improve etiquette and odor at
particular cons, posting to Usenet may not be the most effective way to
accomplish that. Emphatic and visible articles in the con program book
might be better, and there's always trying guerrilla theater at the con.
:-)
--
-- Gary Farber gfa...@panix.com
Copyright (c) 1996 Brooklyn, NY, USA
David E Romm
In article <Pine.LNX.3.92.960616192656.2834C-100000@daemon>, Goldfur
<cha...@daemon.apana.org.au> wrote:
> There has been a lot of discussion lately about the less wonderful aspects
> of the con lately. How about instead we promote all the good points?
SF cons (and, presumably, furry cons) are a lot of fun for the attendee
and the guests: that's why people keep showing up. That's why there are
so many cons. That's why it's easy to get guests.
These discussions haven't been about the 'less wonderful aspects' of cons,
but were started by someone who asked a few questions as a first time
congoer (ie a neo, or in net terms, a newbie). Legitimate questions.
While there have been a few people who have used bad examples as
cautionary tales, most of the posts have answered the question, 'how do I
behave at a con' with 'be polite and use common sense'.
The good points of a con tend to be individual experiences. Everyone goes
to a different convention. What we're trying to do is socialize neos.
Imprinting. Smoothing the loose threads on the skein of fandom.
If a few clueless individuals stumble on a clue, all the better.
Anyway, a discussion on the good points of cons would be huge; a strain on
the net's bandwidth.
--
Shockwave radio: Science Fiction/Science Fact
http://www.winternet.com/~romm
"Boredom is a vital problem for the moralist, since at least half of the sins of mankind are caused by the fear of it." -- Bertrand Russell
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> time. Also, there are people who graduate from art school who still stink
> as artists.
And they become the art teachers.... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> The good points of a con tend to be individual experiences. Everyone goes
> to a different convention. What we're trying to do is socialize neos.
> Imprinting. Smoothing the loose threads on the skein of fandom.
>
> If a few clueless individuals stumble on a clue, all the better.
>
> Anyway, a discussion on the good points of cons would be huge; a strain on
> the net's bandwidth.
Perhaps one thing that should be addressed is how prospective new
artists can make contacts and possible friendship with the known artists
at a con. When I was an aspiring furry artist, I know that I would have
wanted to make contacts and hopefully become a little more engrained in
the professional furry community.
Granted, the artists don't have time for every doddering fanboy,
but what about the ones who actually have some professional interest?
How, where, what times, etc would be good for trying to work themselves
in?
More fuel to the fire.
Urthwyse
Zh...@pioneer.net
After reading all these articles, I went back to the con books from my last two cons,
wondering why one con was great while the other was very tiring even tho I was just a
fan at it. The books were for ConFurence East and Katsucon Ni, an anime con, which
was not much larger than CFE due to being only two years old. Now at Katsucon,
everyone, including guests and dealers, seemed to be having a good, relaxing time,
with few hassles. I'm not a dealer, but I did sit out on Artist's Row with Fred Perry
and a few others, so I got to observe fan behavior and was a target for some myself.
It was all pretty low key and polite during any disagreements, and that's as far as it
went. At CFE it all seemed to START at that level of intensity and escalate from
there. That lead me to wonder, with the discussion going here, what could have
possibly made the difference?
The possible reasons I came up with were: 1) In the book on page 3 & 4 of the
Katsucon Ni book are 'Rules of the Road', detailing just that, the con rules and how
to keep your butt from being kicked out (in a polite but firm way, of course), and
'Tips for Surviving a con' detailing 'Cons are more fun if...' and 2) the staff and
volunteers were watching everything like hawks, and unafraid to piss anyone off in
order to protect the guests and/or anyone who needed their help (of course, they were
ALWAYS polite).
While I realize that my second point is a perpetual problem at furry cons, is there
any reason a prominent page of the permanent book at those cons, not the
handouts which are more likely to be thrown away, couldn't be devoted to laying out
the rules and giving ettiquete reminders? That would also be very very handy to
anyone whose never been before and likely to be nervous about what to do and what not
to do.
Christine
Dave Bryant
In article <4q0t8t$g...@panix2.panix.com>,
Gary Farber <gfa...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>You might want to try spacing after you finish a sentence and before you
>begin another, by the way; I prefer the traditional two spaces, myself.
_Thank_ you. Many posts are difficult if not impossible to read because
of mangled spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar, and cause me (as a
publishing professional sensitive to this sort of thing) to wince at best or
try to throttle my monitor at worst.
ObFurry/ObFan: This concerns me enough to consider putting together a
sort of "roadshow" seminar to conduct at conventions, called "Basic
Typography and Page Design for the Small Press". What do folks think?
Incidentally, two spaces are a convention of typewriting, which I grant
net.text more resembles, rather than typesetting, in which one space is
used. (That's what I use, out of habit, I'm afraid.) The reason? It makes
full stops more visible to the reader in the sea of monospace type.
Dave Bryant, Art Director, _Yarf!_
p...@netcom.com, p...@snowmeow.com
Cupertino, California, United States
Kay Shapero
On <Jun 10 22:15>, AP's Matt <ant...@texas.net> wrote;
a>With the nickname of "Travelling Matt", and the fact that I on
I can see how you came by that one. :-> Long time no hear from.
a>8) At the end of the day, many artists, guests, and dealers have
a>been up and at work for 8, 10, or 12 hours straight - frequently
a>without even a single bathroom break. If you want to win points with
a>someone, you might offer to get them something like a coke from the
a>vending machine, or a snack, or something like that. A token gesture
a>like that will win over the hearts of many a dealer or guest.
Allow me to second that motion. And don't wait for the end of the day - if
you wander into the dealers' room and find it very hot, you can earn
undying gratitude by simply touring the room with a pitcher or so of ice
water and a stack of cups (being VERY VERY VERY VERY careful not to set it
down anywhere *near* the stock in trade!) If you're known to the dealer,
offering to go get lunch is a good idea. (Or even if you aren't, though in
that case you should plan to pay for it yourself.) But even wandering
through with a bag of cookies around 2pm is a good idea. Just be real
careful with the crumbs (cf icewater, above).
And hotels that keep large numbers of icewater pitchers right outside the
dealer's room should be cherished. :->
By the same token, dealers should use common sense too. *Don't* come to
the con without an assistant if you can possibly manage it - if there are
two of you each can go the the restroom, or go pick up food when needed.
If you're alone you're going to be stuck there for hours on end.
Ye ConFurence committee Den Mother, Kay Shapero
==============================
= kay.s...@salata.com =
= Endeavor to Persevere! =
==============================
Glen Wooten
Kenneth Chisholm (chi...@pop.eclec.Com) wrote:
: > One thing I'd say to those who are doing the sketches also is
: >remember these people are admirers and customers, so be polite. Nothing
: >can turn away admirers of your work faster than them getting the feeling
: >you're a jerk. Case in point, I was a totally mindless Terrie Smith fan,
: >until a friend of mine who went to some Con decided to say hello, since I
: >had raved about her stuff. Reportedly, she pretty much snubbed him.
: >Granted, this his his side, backed up by a few who were with him, but it's
: >pretty much killed my interest in her work. I still think she's a decent
: >artist, but I don't buy her stuff anymore.
First off, it has already been confirmed that the person his friend spoke
to WAS NOT Terrie Smith, so his friend was snubbed, but NOT by Terrie...
: Well, she told me in a personal letter that she was self taught. The
: effect of that claim was to give me the confidence that I could learn
: to draw like her. Her talent with a penicil and pen is unsurpassed
: with furries and I dreamed that I could be like her.
: Then I learned that she was an Art Major at the University of
: Tennesse. That's a funny kind of self taught. When I asked for an
: explanation (albiet also for an update for when a commision I sent her
: could be finished) she sent back my cheque and story with no
: explanation as to the offence.
Kenneth, Terrie has not heard one word from you since she sent you that
letter. Since you decided to attack Terrie in public, please allow me to
defend her in public...
Terrie DOES consider herself self-taught. She learned very little at UTK
that she didn't already know, and she had many teachers there who
attempted to "unlearn" the "bad" things she knew about art. Any of you
who already knew something about art and went to any sort of art school
(whether it was a dedicated art school, an art major at a college, or
even some general classes) may have come across this attitude. Many art
teachers consider the "way" they do art is the ONLY way, and if you do it
differently, or specialize in something they do not like, they will
attempt to stop you from what they perceive as being "the wrong way" or
"doing the wrong thing."
There was more than one teacher that tried to do this to Terrie. There
was one teacher that in effect, pulled a scam to mislead her into
enrolling in his class to embarrass Terrie because he didn't like the stuff
she did. Going to a school does not mean ALL your knowledge will come
from there, in fact sometimes quite the opposite...
Regarding the letter you sent, it was quite rude, extremely accusatory,
and you DEMANDED an explanation as to why she purposefully misled you.
She was polite (if possible short in reply), returned your money for the
commission, and DID explain herself to you. If you chose to see this as
"no explanation", then I don't know what sort of an explanation WOULD be
acceptable to you.
: That did great damage to my dream to be an artist, because she
: basically misled to me about her training. I can not believe that you
: can be "self-taught" and have the formal training be seperate from
: that skill. I can't feel I can be like her in quality because I am
: not in a position to get the training she did. If any artists
: disagree, I would love to hear from you.
At no time were you misled. Why would she make any attempt to mislead
anyone about her training? If comprehending the reality (that was never
hidden) "did great damage" to your dream, that is not Terrie's fault.
The VAST majority of Terrie's training is self-taught. This works for
some artists, and some require training by the formal method. If you "can
not believe that you can be 'self-taught'", please do not blame Terrie for
that.
: That really hurt, Terrie. If my offense was bugging you about the
: commision, I apologize for that while reminding you that I didn't
: start until 8 months after I sent the cheque. Even then it was less
: than once a month.
Terrie _encourages_ people to check on the status of their commissions.
Terrie takes a while to finish commissions, yes. That is because she has
an enormous commission list. She makes certain before a commission is
made to inform the person that it _will_ take a while, and that the are
free to check on the status at any time.
If the reason you were hurt was because she sent the money you sent for
the commission back, it would not have been at all necessary had you not
been so rude, impolite, and accusatory. If you had simply asked about
the confusion you had, it would not have been necessary. Your feelings
are not the only ones involved here.
: I still buy her stuff because of the aforementioned reasons, but I
: have to balance that with the seperation of the artist from the
: individual. It is the basic realization that great artists do not
: necessarily mean great people.
No, it does not, but Terrie did nothing wrong in this case.
In all the prints, commissions, and other things Terrie has done over the
years, there have only been 2 complaints. Both were rude, impertinent and
accusatory, and in both instances, Terrie simply promptly refunded their
money, AND gave an explanation. Terrie does not HAVE to take all that is
dished out to her (and let me tell you, Terrie has an EXTREMELY high
boiling point...)
: If you want to call this self pitying whining, you're free to have
: that opinion. I just wanted to get this off my chest that has be
: hanging for half a year.
Kenneth, if you had a problem with Terrie's response to your letter (and
yes, there WAS a response & explanation to everything in your letter...),
I really wish that you would have said something earlier, instead of
airing it in a public forum. The only reason my reply is here is because
you decided to do it here...
--
jag...@netcom.com
(alternate: jag...@pro-amber.cts.com)
Synicism
whit...@netcom.com (Terry Whittier) wrote:
The reader might wonder what all the emphasis is on bathing?
This last ConFurence was the worst on record for aromatic offenses.
Just a statistical abberation, I'm sure, but enough to make a person walk
through the crowd as if drunk, weaving to avoid all of the funky-smelling
people.
Anyone at a table got the worst of it! As I always mention -- sellers
have to be nice to everybody...no matter how bad they smell!
**************************************************************************
***************
I think that's bound to happen at any convention. There will be those
people who simply don't have the ten or fifteen minutes it takes to have a
shower (for whatever reason) and don't even have the consideration to
change clothes or at least try and cover it up with something.
At a furry con I imagine it could be pretty terrible with the number of
costumed types wandering about. I know from experience what a costume
smells like after someone has worn it for the past three days. It isn't
pleasant.
Jim Lai
syni...@aol.com
Ysengrin Werewolf
On 17 Jun 1996 01:22:56 -0400, syni...@aol.com (Synicism) wrote:
>At a furry con I imagine it could be pretty terrible with the number of
>costumed types wandering about. I know from experience what a costume
>smells like after someone has worn it for the past three days. It isn't
>pleasant.
Actually, there's several things that experienced costumers do that
handle most of the B.O. - even after three days. It just takes more
effort.
--
Ysengrin Werewolf (AKA Silvermane), Verdun Manor Pack
http://www.webcom.com/verdun/verdun.html
Amara
particular than furries though.... For anyone who is going to bump into
me at CF8... don't ask for erotica cause you won't get it. ;) Als means
one of my 'surprises' isn't going to cause anyone to faint. ;)
Amara
c.groark
In article <Pine.SOL.3.93.96061...@comp.uark.edu>,
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon <ere...@comp.uark.edu> wrote:
>
> It is possible to attain a style similar to another. The
>influences of Terrie's work on Tygger are pretty apparent, since they do
>look pretty similar. (Either that, or someone else influenced both of
>them. I mean this as no offense to Tygger, they just do look similar to
>my eye.)
Wendy Pini, maybe? Remember, she was one of the first successful
independents out there and she had a great influence on the field because
of it. Of course, Wendy was influenced by everyone who preceeded her.
Michael Whelan was influenced by Kelly Freas, and so on back through
Leonardo, Michelangelo and back to the ones who drew paintings on cave
walls. Art is like that: good or bad work influences those who come
afterward.
>
> Oh, it's entirely possible to be self-taught and formerly trained.
Every artist is self-taught, in the long run. You have to be. You can be
shown techniques, but YOU have to master them. If you can't, you can't
use them.
> On top of all of that, a lot of art teachers are your "fine arts"
>types. They place a lot of emphasis on abstract art stuff. My desire to
>do work like the Old Masters was frowned upon. I was actually told once,
>by my art teacher that, "Cartooning is a stupid waste of time and
>talent." (Oh, did I mention that most art teachers don't have any real
>talent? Anyone can draw, few are actually talented at it.)
If you ever get a chance, talk to Vicky Wyman about this. Her views
coincide, to say the least.
> In all fairness, it's really not Terrie's stuff specifically that
>I stopped buying, but most furry stuff in general. With the good artist
>producing very little, you exhaust your supply of the stuff worth getting
>very quickly. As I analyzed Terrie's stuff more, I did come to realize
>some stuff I could nit-pick at, but she's still head and shoulders about
>most out there, with the possible exception of Vicky Wyman, who's stuff I
>still get pretty mindlessly (though the ink jobs in Across Diamond Seas
>butchered her style). Besides, you gotta love that Empress Alicia.
>Yowza!
I've known Vicky since 1977 and I won't comment on the ADS inking.
However, at CFE she was doing pencils and inks at her table. One guy
watched as she drew a few layout lines and rought oval body shapes. She
leaned over the page for ten seconds and suddenly there was a recognizable
draconic (in this particular case) face. He muttered, "How the hell does
she DO that?" I replied that it was merely FBM. When he asked, I replied
that it stood for F***in' Black Magic.
For those of who can't draw, it is, too.
Charlie
c.groark
In article <Pine.SOL.3.93.960616...@comp.uark.edu>,
>artists can make contacts and possible friendship with the known artists
>at a con. When I was an aspiring furry artist, I know that I would have
>wanted to make contacts and hopefully become a little more engrained in
>the professional furry community.
> Granted, the artists don't have time for every doddering fanboy,
>but what about the ones who actually have some professional interest?
>How, where, what times, etc would be good for trying to work themselves
>in?
>
One suggestion: go to any panel where the artists are speaking. There are
often question and answer sessions where some of these questions can be
raised. You may not get detailed answers, but you may get starting
points.
Second suggestion: stop by their tables and talk to the artists.
(Politely, of course.) They might not be able to give you a great deal of
time, but...
Third suggestion: Find a party with artists in attendance and start
drawing. Some of them may watch what you're doing and give pointers. At
the table, you may not be able to tell a drooling fanboy from a
prospective artist. If you're drawing, you still MAY be a drooling
fanboy, but you're definitely a prospective artist.
Some suggestions from the talentless...
Charlie
Dwight J. Dutton
> Perhaps one thing that should be addressed is how prospective new
> artists can make contacts and possible friendship with the known artists
> at a con. When I was an aspiring furry artist, I know that I would have
> wanted to make contacts and hopefully become a little more engrained in
> the professional furry community.
This would certainly help. But sounds to me a task similar to what
we do in the Army when we get a new unit member - one of the veteran members
is appointed as a sponsor to get the new member familiar with everything, get
to know the people they wil need to know to work woith, etc.
Nothing approoaching one, single person greets the new mmbers of
fandom to classify them into groups and decide who thier friends should
initially be. I can't imagine this ever happening either, for obvious
reasons!
The only thing that can be done along these lines, and has been done
at several cons, is to get the pro artists to have a panel on how to break
into the career field, where the new persons can attend, and at least see who
they might want to get to know later.
The problem with setting up a "mew artists met existing pro artists"
event is that 90% of whoshows up will not be artists, they will be the Black
Sketchbook Army.....
Matthew Philip Clark
In article <Pine.SOL.3.93.960614...@comp.uark.edu>,
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon <ere...@comp.uark.edu> wrote:
> Aaannnyway... I see enough fanboys come and go in the times that I
> am there to know that I don't think I could retain my sanity in a large
> crowd of them. My particular peeves are the vampire idiots who never seem
> to be themselves, but are always in some RPG character. It IS fun to use
> that to annoy them, though.
> "So you're a vampire?"
> "Yes."
> "It's 1PM, what the hell are you doing out?"
> "Well, I.."
> "Vampires can't go out in sun, right?"
> "Well, that is..."
> "So what the hell are you doing out?"
Yeah, some people do get a little carried away... So long as the
Gothics don't start draining my blood, and blowing smoke from thier cloves
in my face, I'm fine.
> Or, if they're playing Masquerade, and stalking you around the
> place with that little hand symbol that means you can't see them or
> something, start giving them a hard time. Just defy all of those rules
> about names and whatnot. Tres' cool.
As someone who's been to a few Masquerades, I find it's generally a
good idea not to start "stalking" the normal people. BTW, if they're
using Unseen Presense (both arms crossed over chest) and wandering around,
that's plain stupid. Anyone with Hieghtened Senses can pick them up.
(however, Astral Projection (one arm across chest) is another matter.
Fortunatly I haven't run into any annoying people like you at a
Masquerade. But then again I've only been to one con game... oh, well.
> At any rate, I doubt I could last long at a con without initiating
> an undeclared game of live Duke Nukem (or Doom) with live ammo. Or at
> least raiding the sporting goods store.
Couldn't we all... :> Do you prefur the pipe bombs, the RPG, or the
Devestator?
--
+-----------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Matthew Philip Clark | NiN / Magic / RPG / Furry / |
| aka Rabbit / Ranma / Usagi | B5 / Anime / Computer Phreak! |
+-----------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Sysop DiSaSteR ArEa BBS | Send Comments/Flames/etc to: |
| ANTiCAUG, BLiTZ, THS | mpc5...@kestrel.tamucc.edu |
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|================================================================
Ulrika O'Brien
rdip...@qualcomm.com (Ron "Ruffin" Dippold) wrote:
>Geez, from reading the thread you might think it was
>'CF: Hell on Earth'.
First, please note that this thread is largely crossposted
to alt.fandom.cons as well as alt.fan.furry, so there's
no real reason to suppose that the only conventions being
discussed are ConFurence and other fuzzy fandom only cons.
Second, I think you're seeing some of the reaction folks
have had to the *worst* elements in SF and the daughter
fandoms, which doesn't mean that everyone or even most
everyone in those fandoms is like that. But in addressing
a total stranger asking about fannish convention etiquette,
it isn't easy to know what level of housebroken the
person asking the question has achieved. (Actually asking
about manners at conventions is a good sign, though, that
the fellow is pretty well aware of the basics already.)
So folks have been addressing themselves to the Lowest
Common Denominator. And in fandom, that can be pretty darned
low.
You're right, of course, that most people at most conventions,
IME, are mannerly, washed, and perfectly presentable. Those
who aren't, however, tend to stand out in one's mind.
--Ulrika
--
"Zeno be damned; sooner or later you gotta get laid."
Ulrika O'Brien *** ulr...@aol.com
Ulrika O'Brien
Elspeth Kovar Burgess <ebur...@radix.net> wrote:
>May I add to this?
>
>Don't stand by the food table, blocking traffic, shoving food into your
>mouth, and *scattering crumbs all over the floor*!
>
>1) Other people can't get to the food.
>2) Shortly there is little food left.
>3) Although it sounds trivial; it leaves a Hell of a mess to be cleaned
>up.
>4) Such behaviour is just unpleasent to be around.
>
>Luckily, this is not as common as it used to be. Or maybe I'm going to a
>better class of party.
And another thing....:)
This is actually a problem in the wide world, as well as in
fandom, but it would be really cool if more people, when at
convention parties or in the consuite or at some other food
function, would police their own messes. If you spill something,
clean it up. If you drop something, pick it up. Once you're
done with something, throw it away. One of the most disheartening
things about working the consuite it realizing what complete
pigs some people are. I think if they stopped to think about
the fact that the person who cleans up after them is not even
paid to do the job, but is just another volunteer at the con,
whose idea of fun probably isn't cleaning onion dip out of the
hotel's upholstery or steam cleaning the rug.
This has been an unpaid public service announcement... :)
Gary Farber
Ulrika O'Brien (Ulr...@aol.com) wrote:
<snip>
: You're right, of course, that most people at most conventions,
: IME, are mannerly, washed, and perfectly presentable. Those
: who aren't, however, tend to stand out in one's mind.
And to emphasize: cons vary wildly. I can't speak to a furrycon, never
having been to one, but you would be hardpressed to find the sort of
person being complained about in this thread at a World Fantasy Con, say,
which is very professional and adult. A commercial rip-off "con" such as
Creation who purpose is to separate folk from their money will attract an
entirely separate crowd.
Furryfandom, like filk conventions, tends to make me feel a tad old,
actually. :-) It seems to me like it was just yesterday that the term
didn't exist, and funny animals were merely something that various fan
artists such as Ken Fletcher, Reed Waller, Taral, Marc Schirmister, Stu
Shiffman, etc., etc., liked to draw. Then came VOOTIE. Then I didn't pay
attention for a bit, and *boom*, an entire subfandom existed complete with
multiple conventions, apas, neos, and the whole caboodle (or nearly so).
Who do furry fans look to as their Floundering Fathers and Mothers,
anyway?
Gary Farber
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon (ere...@comp.uark.edu) wrote:
<clip>
: This is one reason I've never attended a con. I almost did once,
: but I doubt I would have enjoyed it much.
As has been pointed out, there is tremendous variance among the numerous
kinds of cons, and among each individual con. And sometimes from year to
year at the same con. So it's hard to say.
: I have a friend who owns a
: comic store and, when in the hometown, we sit around and doodle, or trash
: the bad art in most comics now. I don't really read anything non-furry,
: and even that is pretty much nil now.
: Aaannnyway... I see enough fanboys come and go in the times that I
: am there to know that I don't think I could retain my sanity in a large
: crowd of them. My particular peeves are the vampire idiots who never seem
: to be themselves, but are always in some RPG character. It IS fun to use
: that to annoy them, though.
: "So you're a vampire?"
: "Yes."
: "It's 1PM, what the hell are you doing out?"
: "Well, I.."
: "Vampires can't go out in sun, right?"
: "Well, that is..."
: "So what the hell are you doing out?"
: Or, if they're playing Masquerade, and stalking you around the
: place with that little hand symbol that means you can't see them or
: something, start giving them a hard time. Just defy all of those rules
: about names and whatnot. Tres' cool.
: At any rate, I doubt I could last long at a con without initiating
: an undeclared game of live Duke Nukem (or Doom) with live ammo. Or at
: least raiding the sporting goods store.
: "Duh-nuh-nuh-nuh BATMAN!!!" WHACK!
I entirely sympathize with sharp wits, and their temptation to pick on
silly twits. It's irresistable for some of us sometimes. Nonetheless,
the Superior Position of someone who hangs out at a comic store and likes
to be yclept "Urthwyse the Northern Dragon" might conceivably have cause
to be faintly nervous about the transparency of their house. :-)
We smartass' should always keep in mind that there is a Bigger Smartass
somewhere. :-)
Are you trying to avoid confusion with the Southern Dragon? ;-)
Heavens, that could be awkward! <BIFF!>
Gary Farber
Dave Bryant (p...@netcom.com) wrote:
[. . .]
: _Thank_ you. Many posts are difficult if not impossible to read because
: publishing professional sensitive to this sort of thing) to wince at best or
: try to throttle my monitor at worst.
Peculiarly, I understand. :-) I actively restrain myself from writing
corrections for *so* many posts; but I also tend to end up ignoring many
folk who are repetitively clueless. Life is too short.
: ObFurry/ObFan: This concerns me enough to consider putting together a
: sort of "roadshow" seminar to conduct at conventions, called "Basic
: Typography and Page Design for the Small Press". What do folks think?
That's what fanzine fandom is for? In sf fandom at least; the only
furryzine I've seen as yet had good production standards, but manged to
leave the editor's name and address off. :-)
But the more folk who are literate and understand aesthetics of written
communication, the better; go for it.
: Incidentally, two spaces are a convention of typewriting, which I grant
: net.text more resembles, rather than typesetting, in which one space is
: used. (That's what I use, out of habit, I'm afraid.) The reason? It makes
: full stops more visible to the reader in the sea of monospace type.
Yes, I've done some smatterings of typesetting in the distant past.
Amusingly enough, one of them was for an issue of Steve Gallaci's ALBEDO,
circa, um, 1981 or so. It's been interesting to see his success with
furryfandom, since when I knew him in Seattle he was Just Another
Fringefan to Seattle fandom. :-) He, I, and two other folk rode from
Seattle to the Worldcon in Denver, Denvention II in the same car in '81.
And I use two spaces at the end of a sentence because it properly
distinguishes between the end of the sentence, and other uses of the
period. ASCII is identical to typewriting in that we are unable to
change the appearance of our type as we can when typesetting (or desktop
publishing).
Mark Freid
On 15 Jun 1996 01:32:35 -0700, rdip...@qualcomm.com (Ron "Ruffin"
Dippold) wrote:
>Geez, from reading the thread you might think it was 'CF: Hell on Earth'.
>For those who haven't attended and are thinking that maybe it's all one big
>stinking cesspit of odor, perversion, debauchery, and smurfs. I've been to
>several cons now, and the plusses far outweigh the minuses, enough so that I
>would have flown to DucKon if I could have gotten the time last month.
>Please follow the advice given and make it even better, but don't be scared
>off. The majority of people seemed to me to be pretty well behaved.
>
>
>--
This is true. If you want to go to a ConFurence, absolutely, do. I
think this thread is more toward teaching the few that ARE doing
things "annoying" how to please people better.
It's Edu-tainment!
-Mark
=============================================
Mark Freid ("Canuss") Wolf, Cartoonist, Loony
=============================================
Web: http://www.av.qnet.com/~canuss
Email: can...@qnet.com
"Canuss" on GEnie's Beastie Board & FurryMUCK!
==============================================
Mark Freid
On 15 Jun 1996 07:17:22 GMT, boo...@nntp.best.com (Jeff Mancebo)
wrote:
> boojum rolls his eyes as he thinks of another point, "Wash and Dry
>your hands BEFOR you go into the Dealers room.. Every time if you can.
>It's never happened to me but I can picture nothing worse than going in,
>picking up a beutifull print, and finding I'd left greasy fingerprints on
>it because I'd eaten a slice of pizza... or because I'd been outside and
>the furnature was dirty."
>
This is a good idea. But even if you don't be careful. If the art is
not in protective sleeve, and you don't want to touch it, ask the
dealer. As a dealer at both CF and CFeast, I have all my prints
displayed in plastic sleeves, and the ones that are purchased are
handled by me only, put into en envelope and handed to the buyer. Then
they can do whatever they want with it.
And for gawd sakes, don't touch exposed art show art! *whimper!*
Someone left a big graphite fingerprint on one of my B&W originals in
the CF7 art show. It didn't sell. :(
Matthew Philip Clark
In article <Pine.SOL.3.93.96061...@comp.uark.edu>,
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon <ere...@comp.uark.edu> wrote:
> On top of all of that, a lot of art teachers are your "fine arts"
> types. They place a lot of emphasis on abstract art stuff. My desire to
> do work like the Old Masters was frowned upon. I was actually told once,
> by my art teacher that, "Cartooning is a stupid waste of time and
> talent." (Oh, did I mention that most art teachers don't have any real
> talent? Anyone can draw, few are actually talented at it.)
Hurmph... Sounds like my art teacher. I took a year long course, and
the only thing I learned of any use in that class was shading (even then
my teacher critized my style of shading... said you can't properly shade
while holding the pencil normally (rather than on it's side.)) Really
kinda turned my off to the idea of formal art classes.
And yeah it is the concensus that cartooning is a waste of time and
talent. I learned more about cartooning on the newspaper staff than from
my art class.
> In light of this, my guess is that anyone that wants to do
> cartooning, especially something non-mainstream like furries, has to be
> self-taught to some degree, since they'll probably get little or no
> encouragement from your typical art teachers.
Definately...
> "A true nature lover is a person who can be treed by a bear, and
> sit there enjoying the view."
... Or be taking pictures while wolves circle your camp site.
Chris Whalen
In article <31c585a7...@news.teleport.com>, can...@qnet.com says...
>And for gawd sakes, don't touch exposed art show art! *whimper!*
>Someone left a big graphite fingerprint on one of my B&W originals in
>the CF7 art show. It didn't sell. :(
Any art that is not covered with a protective plastic sheet or glass is very
vulnerable. At an art show jurying, a judge picked at the tone screen sheet
I'd applied to a drawing, probably to show someone how the dots were applied
on. At another jurying, a matted and framed drawing I submitted had splatters
on the glass, as if someone had opened a can of pop next to it.
Assume there's always going to be at least one moron at an art show, and
figure out how to protect your art (I assume that the art show already has
signs up saying "Do not touch."). A cheap and temporary way to protect art
that might work is to Saran (sp?) wrap it.
Patrons who like to touch art should keep their hands clasped behind their
backs --
Chris
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
>
> Third suggestion: Find a party with artists in attendance and start
> drawing. Some of them may watch what you're doing and give pointers. At
> the table, you may not be able to tell a drooling fanboy from a
> prospective artist. If you're drawing, you still MAY be a drooling
> fanboy, but you're definitely a prospective artist.
One thing to watch, though, is proving to be wickedly talented,
and then having their pointers really have your work take off. I had
something similar happen in my correspondence with Steve Gallacci. He
gave me a few pointers, and they helped a lot. At later points, he gave
me a few more, but I rejected them because they worked well for his style,
but not mine. After that, I never heard from him. He probably
juest dropped correspondence, though I occasionally wondered if it was
jealousy, or offense from my rejecting notions from probably one of the
most worshipped morph artists. (Keep in mind, I've never met ANY of the
morph artists save through mail, so I dunno who's a nice guy, who's a
jerk, or what.)
I guess the moral of this tale is: Watch out for bruising egos.
(Though I would guess most artists around furrydom aren't egotistical or
anything, there may be a few. <shrug>)
Urthwyse
Urthwyse the Northern Dragon
> As someone who's been to a few Masquerades, I find it's generally a
> good idea not to start "stalking" the normal people. BTW, if they're
> using Unseen Presense (both arms crossed over chest) and wandering around,
> that's plain stupid. Anyone with Hieghtened Senses can pick them up.
> (however, Astral Projection (one arm across chest) is another matter.
> Fortunatly I haven't run into any annoying people like you at a
> Masquerade. But then again I've only been to one con game... oh, well.
He said I was annoying... heh heh heh.. you don't know the half of
it. But it's not like I go out of my way to spoil their fun. I've been
to a games store on occasion where they'll be playing and involve the
customers. I'm just there for miniatures.
Another thing to do if they're involving you, and they're using
heightened senses, is to yell real loud.
"AAAUUUUGGGGHHHHH!"
"What was that for?"
"You were using heightened senses on me, right?"
"Yeah.. okay, I was."
"I'd say your fellow gamers should treat you as being deaf for the
next hour or so."
Then there's the canteen of holy water, Sprite, whatever you've
got.
I guess my personal bent, besides the vampire extremist fanboys,
is that, out of all mythological characters, I think vampires are wussies.
> Couldn't we all... :> Do you prefur the pipe bombs, the RPG, or the
> Devestator?
Depends on how you're playing. In Dukematch, I like the RPG, or
stuffing pipe bombs in air ducts. On co-op play, I like the chaingun,
because you don't run the risk of your partners running by into the blast.
On normal play, the RPG.
Then there's the variations. Freeze them then pipe bomb them is a
fun one. Occasionally I can get a pipe bomb on top of their head, and
they can't get it off until they die.