The death of digital fur art?
Joshua Barney
think about the impact piracy really has on the furry community. Playing
devil's advocate for a bit, digital art is hard to put a price tag on. One
can view it on a computer, and print it out on glossy photo paper if one
likes; however, it simply doesn't carry the same value as a real painting.
I never got why artists sell their art collections on CDs. I'd rather have
just one good-sized awesome painting from an artist than a thousand jpegs
burned onto a CD that isn't even archival quality.
It would seem that the entire scheme of dealing in digital art is flawed
from the beginning, because artists who sell their work this way put such a
low value on each piece of art they sell. When an artist burns a CD filled
with their artwork and prices it at $25, they have to sell a lot of CDs to
"break even" with the effort they put into creating each piece. All it
takes for this business model to fall apart is one asshole to buy a CD and
throw the contents up on a peer-to-peer network.
I'm not condoning what pirates do; it's just that it's incredibly easy for
pirates to distribute material in digital form, and artists should
recognize that. Perhaps relying on the sales of pay-to-view sites and CD
portfolio collections is not a smart business move, unless artists want to
start building comprehensive "trust lists" of people it is okay to sell to,
with a hefty 10-page EULA as a precondition for purchase, with unique
watermarks for each CD so the artist is able to tell exactly who leaked out
what.
The other option is for artists to put more value into the art they sell,
and deal in real world media. Unfortunately, this may mean that purchases
will be fewer and far between, since it will be harder for the regular
furry fan to afford it, coupled with the artist dealing in a niche market
which doesn't have as broad an appeal as "normal" paintings. However, this
route may garner more respect in the long run, and stop piracy in its
tracks.
Discuss?
~ Joshua
--
"I'm a scientist. I don't believe in anything!"
Dan Skunk
"Joshua Barney" <m1e0k1o...@c1o0m1c0a1s0t.net> wrote in message
news:ddg3db$1inf$1...@urocyon.critter.net...
Buying a CD is more about supporting the artist than gaining something of
value, I think. One can certainly view the identical material online. And
just because something is on a cd, doesn't mean the original is any less
valuable.
On a side note.... I'll just create a new thread.
iBuck
>from the beginning, because artists who sell their work this way put such a
>low value on each piece of art they sell.
That's only if you somehow give the -copies- of the peice of art,the
same value as the -original- (and often there is), if a peice can be
repicated and sold indefinite number of times, then a low price makes
up for it in volume..
>When an artist burns a CD filled
>with their artwork and prices it at $25, they have to sell a lot of CDs to
>"break even" with the effort they put into creating each piece
CD's are cheap to produce, most are sold at about 1/2 that price, and
they -do- sell, and of course, the CD's arn't the -only- place the art
can be sold, you can still sell the original, and prints, as well as
the CD...
>All it takes for this business model to fall apart is one asshole to buy a CD >and throw the contents up on a peer-to-peer network.
For which you've gotten the asshole's money, and he's gotten medium
quality copies of art, sometimes not even print quality, and it's easy
enough to retire a CD, and move on to the next volume... it's all in
the lag between purchase and posting, and then between posting and
distrbution..
>The other option is for artists to put more value into the art they sell,
>and deal in real world media.
They allready -do- and in prints of the work as welll...
>Unfortunately, this may mean that purchases will be fewer and far >between
I haven't sold CD's in several years now, and my sales of prints and
comissions are doing just fine...
BR
> One can view it on a computer, and print it out on glossy photo paper
> if one likes; however, it simply doesn't carry the same value as a real
> painting.
The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide] Value
\Val"ue\ (v[a^]l"[=u]), n. [OF. value, fr. valoir, p. p.
valu, to be worth, fr. L. valere to be strong, to be worth. See
Valiant.]
1. The property or aggregate properties of a thing by which
it is rendered useful or desirable, or the degree of such property
or sum of properties; worth; excellence; utility; importance. [1913
Webster]
[1913 Webster]
Ye are all physicians of no value. --Job xiii. 4.
[1913 Webster]
Ye are of more value than many sparrows. --Matt. x.
31.
[1913 Webster]
Caesar is well acquainted with your virtue, And therefore sets
this value on your life.
--Addison.
[1913 Webster]
Before events shall have decided on the value of the measures.
--Marshall.
[1913 Webster]
2. (Trade & Polit. Econ.) Worth estimated by any standard of
purchasing power, especially by the market price, or the amount of
money agreed upon as an equivalent to the utility and cost of
anything.
[1913 Webster]
An article may be possessed of the highest degree of utility,
or power to minister to our wants and enjoyments, and may be
universally made use of, without possessing exchangeable
value. --M'Culloch.
[1913 Webster]
Value is the power to command commodities generally.
--A. L. Chapin
(Johnson's
Cys.).
[1913 Webster]
Value is the generic term which expresses power in exchange.
--F. A.
Walker.
[1913 Webster]
His design was not to pay him the value of his pictures,
because they were above any price.
--Dryden.
[1913 Webster]
Note: In political economy, value is often distinguished as
intrinsic and exchangeable. Intrinsic value is the same as
utility or adaptation to satisfy the desires or wants of men.
Exchangeable value is that in an article or product which
disposes individuals to give for it some quantity of labor, or
some other article or product obtainable by labor; as, pure air
has an intrinsic value, but generally not an exchangeable value.
[1913 Webster]
3. Precise signification; import; as, the value of a word;
the value of a legal instrument --Mitford. [1913 Webster]
4. Esteem; regard. --Dryden.
[1913 Webster]
My relation to the person was so near, and my value for him so
great --Bp. Burnet.
[1913 Webster]
5. (Mus.) The relative length or duration of a tone or note,
answering to quantity in prosody; thus, a quarter note [?] has the
value of two eighth notes [?]. [1913 Webster]
6. In an artistical composition, the character of any one
part in its relation to other parts and to the whole; -- often used
in the plural; as, the values are well given, or well maintained.
[1913 Webster]
7. Valor. [Written also valew.] [Obs.] --Spenser.
[1913 Webster]
8.
(a) That property of a color by which it is distinguished
as bright or dark; luminosity.
(b) Degree of lightness as conditioned by the presence of
white or pale color, or their opposites. [Webster 1913 Suppl.]
9. (Math.) Any particular quantitative determination; as, a
function's value for some special value of its argument. [Webster
1913 Suppl.]
10. [pl.] The valuable ingredients to be obtained by
treatment from any mass or compound; specif., the precious metals
contained in rock, gravel, or the like; as, the vein carries good
values; the values on the hanging walls. [Webster 1913 Suppl.]
Value received, a phrase usually employed in a bill of
exchange or a promissory note, to denote that a consideration has
been given for it. --Bouvier. [1913 Webster]
Value \Val"ue\ (v[a^]l"[=u]), v. t. [imp. & p. p. Valued
(v[a^]l"[=u]d); p. pr. & vb. n. Valuing.] [1913 Webster] 1. To estimate
the value, or worth, of; to rate at a certain
price; to appraise; to reckon with respect to number, power,
importance, etc.
[1913 Webster]
The mind doth value every moment. --Bacon.
[1913 Webster]
The queen is valued thirty thousand strong. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]
The king must take it ill,
That he's so slightly valued in his messenger.
--Shak.
[1913 Webster]
Neither of them valued their promises according to rules of
honor or integrity. --Clarendon.
[1913 Webster]
2. To rate highly; to have in high esteem; to hold in respect
and estimation; to appreciate; to prize; as, to value one for his
works or his virtues.
[1913 Webster]
Which of the dukes he values most. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]
3. To raise to estimation; to cause to have value, either
real or apparent; to enhance in value. [Obs.] [1913 Webster]
Some value themselves to their country by jealousies of the
crown. --Sir W.
Temple.
[1913 Webster]
4. To be worth; to be equal to in value. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]
The peace between the French and us not values The cost that
did conclude it. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]
Syn: To compute; rate; appraise; esteem; respect; regard;
estimate; prize; appreciate.
[1913 Webster]
WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]
value
n 1: a numerical quantity measured or assigned or computed; "the
value assigned was 16 milliseconds"
2: the quality (positive or negative) that renders something
desirable or valuable; "the Shakespearean Shylock is of dubious
value in the modern world"
3: the amount (of money or goods or services) that is
considered to be a fair equivalent for something else; "he tried
to estimate the value of the produce at normal prices" [syn:
economic value]
4: relative darkness or lightness of a color; "I establish the
colors and principal values by organizing the painting into three
values--dark, medium...and light"-Joe Hing Lowe
5: (music) the relative duration of a musical note [syn: time
value, note value]
6: an ideal accepted by some individual or group; "he has
old-fashioned values"
v 1: fix or determine the value of; assign a value to; "value the
jewelry and art work in the estate"
2: hold dear; "I prize these old photographs" [syn: prize, treasure,
appreciate]
3: regard highly; think much of; "I respect his judgement"; "We
prize his creativity" [syn: respect, esteem, prize, prise] [ant:
disrespect, disrespect]
4: place a value on; judge the worth of something; "I will have
the family jewels appraised by a professional" [syn: measure,
evaluate, valuate, assess, appraise]
5: estimate the value of; "How would you rate his chances to
become President?"; "Gold was rated highly among the Romans" [syn:
rate]
Bouvier's Law Dictionary, Revised 6th Ed (1856) [bouvier]
VALUE, common law. This term has two different meanings. It sometimes
expresses the utility of an object, and some times the power of purchasing
other good with it. The first may be called value in use, the latter value
in exchange.
2. Value differs from price. The latter is applied to live cattle and
animals; in a declaration, therefore, for taking cattle, they ought to be
said to be of such a price; and in a declaration for taking dead chattels
or those which never had life, it ought to lay them to be of such a value.
2 Lilly's Ab. 620.
Gotta love the English language.
Sibe Husky
Joshua Barney
> That's only if you somehow give the -copies- of the peice of art,the
> same value as the -original- (and often there is), if a peice can be
> repicated and sold indefinite number of times, then a low price makes
> up for it in volume..
What exactly are you trying to say here? The very fact that you have to
sell copies of a piece of artwork an "indefinite" number of times to "make
up for it in volume" MEANS that the art has less value.
> CD's are cheap to produce, most are sold at about 1/2 that price, and
> they -do- sell
My money is precious. I know artists are hungry, but I have to eat too. If
I'm going to part with cash then there had better be a good reason for it.
I don't doubt that you can make a few bucks off of 'em, but CDs are also a
poor investment compared to originals and properly-made prints. As
mentioned before, I'd rather have one awesome original than a CD filled
with stuff. And the artist still gets his or her money when I purchase a
valuable original, so what's to complain about?
> For which you've gotten the asshole's money, and he's gotten medium
> quality copies of art, sometimes not even print quality
You've got the asshole's money, but any subsequent money after that may be a
hit-or-miss affair, since your asshole has taken that great sacrifice upon
him or herself of letting anyone else see this "exclusive" thing for free.
The asshole's goal isn't to make any money off of it, he does it for the
sake of assholery.
Running the "new edition now-with-gofaster-stripes" CD treadmill, in my
opinion, is not an option.
>
>>The other option is for artists to put more value into the art they sell,
>>and deal in real world media.
>
> They allready -do- and in prints of the work as welll...
Yeah, I did make it sound like many furry artists ONLY deal in digital. I
just wanted to make a point that those who deal heavily in the digital side
of things shouldn't be so surprised when it comes to piracy. Pretty much
everything I've seen floating about available for illicit download has been
CDs and "exclusive" digital art, and if this has been what's making all the
brouhaha around here about starving artists and cats and dogs sleeping
together, well... I rest my case.
>
>>Unfortunately, this may mean that purchases will be fewer and far >between
>
> I haven't sold CD's in several years now, and my sales of prints and
> comissions are doing just fine...
Good for you. :)
Joshua Barney
>
> Gotta love the English language.
Is this the point you were trying to make with all those definitions? Or
was there some hidden meaning in all that dictionary spam that you thought
could say what you meant better than you could say yourself? ;)
Yes, everyone has a different definition of value, but I was talking about $
specifically, since the economics of piracy seem to figure into the
equation so often.
iBuck
>sell copies of a piece of artwork an "indefinite" number of times to "make
>up for it in volume" MEANS that the art has less value.
Only if you -only- look at the per peice price, taken as a whole, the
CD sales could be -more- valuable, that print sales or sales of
original..
>And the artist still gets his or her money when I purchase a
>valuable original, so what's to complain about?
The lack of possesson of the original? I usually only sell mine, in
cases where it's a comissioned peice, and sometimes not even then...
-You- may not like the bang for the buck with CD's but that's not a
universal sentiment, some folks don't mind the lack of quality on a CD,
but enjoy the volume of work they get, something that's hard to do with
prints and originals, unless you break the bank at foxwoods...
I guess what hits me its that your argument comes across as an
either/or with regards to CD sales... but you can sell CD's AND
prints, AND originals... the added sales that you get from compiling
stufff on CD's most often -after- print sales and the originals have
sold, are worth the frankly trivial effort of producing them...
Rick 2Tails
maybe comicbooks or tradepaperbacks on cheap paper as far as value go.You
can get lots of art for a small ammount in cd form because the production
costs are much lower.Of course an original is worth much more.But you can
sell an original only once.And if you draw your art digitaly ,THERE IS NO
ORIGINAL ART!Not to mention there is nothing stopping you from selling a
very expensive original and cheap cds of copies of the originals.
The only other alternative to cd or book sales is to sell prints.Now while
an artist can make more money per image selling prints,that doesnt
neccessarily equate with more income .The audenice for furry art is
limited.The limited audeince has a limited ammount of disposible income.The
artists selling art to this fandom are hundreds if not into the thousands if
you include teenagers posting a picture on furbid or on a personal website
for sale.Thus your potential customer base is small and has lots of options
to satisfy its desire to collect anthro art.
If you sell prints for $10 an image and your collective fandom as an artist
has only say $500 a month to spend ,then in theory you could sell 50 prints
a month .Or you could sell 25 $20 cds .Now if you rarely produce any artwork
,you could make more money selling prints.But if you rarely produce any
artwork,the possibilities to have much of a fanbase is slim.What is more
likely is that you will produce more artwork than 99% of your fan base can
afford to buy .You can either be happy having fans only see a smal portion
of your creations .Or you can try to figure out how to make a profit and
share all or most of your artwork (with the exception of pieces for friends
or private artwork for yourself) . One could argue that selling more of your
artwork in an affordible format will better ingrain yourself with your
fanbase.That in turn could turn your fanbase into a dependible source of
revenue that buys whatever you produce because they like and are familar
with your work .Or you could charge high prices for prints and have fans who
buy an isolated piece or 2 that the can afford and like and possibly forget
about your artwork because they own so little of it.
Another aspect of colecting artwork besides financial is the collecting
aspect of it . aka "where the fuck am I going to put/display all of this
stuff?" Few people own mansions with dozens of rooms or sliding art display
walls to show off art posters,framed original art and framed prints.I have
passed on posters and prints I found attractive because of space issues.A cd
of art is very easy to store and collect as oppsosed to more bulky paper
items.
I think artists should offer their artwork for sale in different formats in
different prices to maximise their profits.If you are worried about cds
being ripped and posted for free,then you should be worried about selling
prints or anything besides original art.Because all paper products can be
scanned and stolen just like cd images can be too. I collect art cds even
when most of the content is online.I like supporting the artist .And i like
having a physical collection of the artwork incase the website goes down or
my computer hd breaks .It`s true one could burn their own copies of art
from the web,but there are often some production values some artists add
,like commentary on pictures (which I esp like artists *hint,hint* )
"Joshua Barney" <m1e0k1o...@c1o0m1c0a1s0t.net> wrote in message
news:ddg3db$1inf$1...@urocyon.critter.net...
BR
> Art cds offer many benefits to a collector of art than other forms
> except maybe comicbooks or tradepaperbacks on cheap paper as far as
> value go.You can get lots of art for a small ammount in cd form because
> the production costs are much lower.Of course an original is worth much
> more.But you can sell an original only once.And if you draw your art
> digitaly ,THERE IS NO ORIGINAL ART!
There's something I think needs to be kept in mind. The quality issue.
Getting art on CD (or DVD) doesn't imply lesser quality. For example let's
say I did an oil painting. If I used a commercial grade scanner, I could
fit a large file on there, that could be printed on a commercial quality
printer. There are even printers that can duplicate the texture of the
painting.