Latest Goodies from Genus #33!
Ion Otter
/Fanboy
Just got the latest copy of "Genus", #33. Pardon me whilst I replace my eyes in
my skull, okay?
Joe Rosales "The Art Lesson" was, to date, the BEST adult-themed story I've
seen. It is on even par with "Fangs of Ka'aath", and I've got all the Genus
issues, back to #4, as well as Wildlife and a few other odd titles.
Now, the art is really good, but the STORY! Good GOD, the story is...is...I
CAN'T DESCRIBE IT! It gave me the shivering heebeejeebies of pure pleasure! I
read it FOUR times in a row! I got goosebumps! I loved the perspective, the
emotions, the expressions, the sounds...it almost seemed to come alive off the
page!
I could only PRAY to GOD that I ever meet a woman like that!!!!
*ahem!* *The otter straightens his tunic, embarrased.*
Well, some things you folks don't need to know, but I got excited. A-heh!
Anyway, this Mr. Rosales is in excellent form. The story was told so well and
it made me so happy to read such excellent work. The emotions seemed so
genuine, I'd hazard that this was taken from real life. *blush*
All of it combined to make an incredibly beautiful story.
And the best part of all is that there was no gratuitous spooge! Hey, I mean
spooge has it's place, but some artists seem to think it's required for a good
story. Joe has it right, and he's got it good! *shudder*
/Fanboy
Okay, enough fan-raving for now. Time to return to your regularly scheduled
noise...
Aloha!
===============O <==[IonOtter, LogOut]
DawnWolf
Ion Otter <iono...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Just got the latest copy of "Genus", #33. Pardon me whilst I replace my eyes in
>my skull, okay?
>
>Now, the art is really good, but the STORY! Good GOD, the story is...is...I
>CAN'T DESCRIBE IT! It gave me the shivering heebeejeebies of pure pleasure! I
>read it FOUR times in a row! I got goosebumps! I loved the perspective, the
*hands Ion Otter a towel, smirking* OK ok, you convinced me :o) Now
kindly tell me: What is Genus, and how do I get my paws on it?
>And the best part of all is that there was no gratuitous spooge! Hey, I mean
Aha! Gratuitous use of the word "gratuitous"! Are you happy, citizen?
*inquiring look*
(and yes, as you have guessed, I used Dejanews ... 's only fair <huge
grin>)
Hugs
DawnWolf
xe...@hotmail.com
ionotterathotmaildotcom wrote:
> Aloha all!
>
> /Fanboy
>
> Just got the latest copy of "Genus", #33. Pardon me whilst I replace my eyes
in
> my skull, okay?
>
> seen. It is on even par with "Fangs of Ka'aath", and I've got all the Genus
> issues, back to #4, as well as Wildlife and a few other odd titles.
>
> CAN'T DESCRIBE IT! It gave me the shivering heebeejeebies of pure pleasure!
I
> read it FOUR times in a row! I got goosebumps! I loved the perspective, the
> page!
>
> I could only PRAY to GOD that I ever meet a woman like that!!!!
>
> *ahem!* *The otter straightens his tunic, embarrased.*
>
> Well, some things you folks don't need to know, but I got excited. A-heh!
> Anyway, this Mr. Rosales is in excellent form. The story was told so well and
> it made me so happy to read such excellent work. The emotions seemed so
> genuine, I'd hazard that this was taken from real life. *blush*
>
> All of it combined to make an incredibly beautiful story.
>
> story. Joe has it right, and he's got it good! *shudder*
>
> /Fanboy
>
> Okay, enough fan-raving for now. Time to return to your regularly scheduled
> noise...
Yes, all of the stories were good and you're right Joe's story may have been
the best adult story to run. It showed the dynamics of a true relationship
between two individuals and and the sex wasn't forced into the story. Plus
the fact the artwork was well done. THe bunny was really cute and ya gotto
love those terriers.
The thing about the issue that made my eyes pop out was the cover! Whoa,
when I pulled that out of my file at the comic store I certainly wasn't
expecting that! Now that was daring.
Xenif
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Dr. Cat
: Now, the art is really good, but the STORY! Good GOD, the story is...is...I
: CAN'T DESCRIBE IT! It gave me the shivering heebeejeebies of pure pleasure! I
: read it FOUR times in a row! I got goosebumps! I loved the perspective, the
: emotions, the expressions, the sounds...it almost seemed to come alive off the
: page!
Well ok, but did you like it? I mean it's not clear to me yet whether
you really liked it or what.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: Hey, if he actually *liked* it, maybe I'll buy a copy too.)
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
artist who contributed a story to Genus could even approach that level. Why,
Erotica might even be considered respectable!
Congratulations to Joe for such a brilliant peice of work. (although, I'd
love to see it in color. A story about colored bodypaint kinda loses
something in black and white, like the base coat.)
--
The greatest tragedy is that the same species that achieved space flight,
a cure for polio, and the transistor, is also featured nightly on COPS.
-- Richard Chandler
Spammer Warning: Washington State Law now provides civil penalties for UCE.
IonOtter
DawnWolf wrote:
> *hands Ion Otter a towel, smirking* OK ok, you convinced me :o) Now
> kindly tell me: What is Genus, and how do I get my paws on it?
Genus is a monthly comic book put out by Radio Comix. It was recently owned by
Antartic Press, but Radio broke off to publish certain titles more effectively and
with less overhead.
Genus is the rated R to X version of furry comics, and covers a wide variety of
sexual tastes. Sometimes the stories can be quite profound, bordering on the
socio-political (Bill Fitts) to the absolutely hillarious (Roz Gibson). Sometimes it
can be very disturbing as well (Dark Natasha).
Genus is available from Radio Comix, who can be found at
http://members.aol.com/radiocomix/.
Radio also publishes Furrlough, another anthropomorphic title that ranges from rated
G to PG-13. I've seen some R, but it's subtle. The work is usually very good, and
is often a springboard for new artists.
As for their other titles, you'll have to look at the webpage. My fingers are too
tired to list that many good reads...
Hope this makes your day a little brighter!
=============O <==[IonOtter, LogOut]
> Hugs
> DawnWolf
lexis...@my-dejanews.com
2/9/99, around 4 a.m.
Artists discussion. The subject has turned to Genus #33.
----- start log -----
ARTIST-01 says: Okay, now... First, let me start off with initial
impressions. In all honesty, when I first saw the cover to Genus #33, my mind
reeled, because first of all, I was thinking that there was no way they would
have adorned the book with such a blatantly revealing cover... Nipples and
spread ass-cheeks and all... But, they did. Secondly, I was confused because
at first it appeared that the bunny-girl on the cover had a corrugated steel
cover over her vaginal area... Then as I got closer it looked like she had a
giant white artichoke with black-tipped leaves crammed up her ass... Neither,
though; it was her fingers.
ARTIST-01 continues: To put it simply, this cover is a degenerate work. The
bunny-girl with her thigh-high leather boots and playboy-bunny-style collar
is bad enough just in that she is a completely sexual symbol, but further
adding to the sheer badness of this work is the artificial pink color, and
the face... My God, the face. It's like the very worst mutation of human and
rabbit features... In fact, she almost looks horrifying.... Where I am going
with all this is that the cover represents all that is wrong with so many
things [in furry] today... Oh, that's right, let me elaborate on the pose a
bit...
ARTIST-01 goes on: Basically, it's this rabbit girl, with her ass stuck in
the camera, bent over, giving a little "over the shoulder" look, with her
hands shoved back between her legs to cover her womanhood and her ass, but
the only thing is, unless I am mistaken (and how much room is there for
interpretation in this, really?) she actually has one of her massive black
rabbit-fingernails shoved into her asshole.
ARTIST-02: Actually her anus would be higher up...under her tail. I think
she's just cupping her sex, but then again, I'm not sure. It's rather hard
to tell, really.
ARTIST-01: Basically, the cover is completely in poor taste, and ugly to
boot... It's the artistic equivalent of a plastic lawn flamingo. Production
line, and geared toward the sole purpose of fulfilling a common stereotype
and attracting attention with loud colors. Nothing against plastic lawn
flamingos, though.
ARTIST-02: Look at http://members.aol.com/RadioComix/december.html" The
very bottom image, to see the cover.
WRITER-05: Well, the blending colors are nice. The ears and boots are not
bad. It's just a totally sleazy picture. I thought the ass unicorn cover was
bad... This was the worst.
ARTIST-02: Whatever...the cover is totally vulgar. I heard that Winkler and
Rosales were both totally convinced that the Monty cover was "gonna put furry
on the map"!
ARTIST-03: Yeah.. riiiight.
ARTIST-01: Yeah? Heh... They are probably misled disappointingly by their
own self-importance in many ways...
ARTIST-01: I wouldn't see why they would think it would put them on the
map... God, then there is the aspect of just how embarassing it is to be
handed a book with a cover picture like this, and to have to stand there and
play the "nothing is wrong" game with the clerk while I pay for it.
ARTIST-02: LOL at ARTIST-01!...'So..what did you do to distract the clerk?
As he rang up the comic, do you suddenly knock over a display rack? :)
ARTIST-03: Did you say something like.. "Oooh, LOOK!!! A Star Wars MOC Ree
Yees action figure!"
ARTIST-01: Nothing, I am beyond that... :) I know the guys at the comic shop
read Genus, so they know what it is anyway, no need to pretend. He and I just
kept our eyes averted. I was proud of him, brave fellow...
ARTIST-02: That's the kinda book you might consider shoplifting to avoid
paying for it...but then, you also have to consider the embarrassment you'd
suffer if you were caught. Catch 22.
ARTIST-01: Actually... To be honest, this has really made me decide to just
not buy either book anymore... This issue sucked so badly, and the last
issue of Furrlough sucked so badly, that there is no way to justify spending
the money.
ARTIST-03: You're just now arriving at this conclusion? My brother kept
getting them long after I stopped. I'd flip through his. I'd see one or two
things that were interesting, but long ago I decided that the good-to-crap
ratio didn't merit the cover price.
ARTIST-02: I was thinking of dropping the Radio titles too..but I wanted to
see this wondrous Rosales sell-out sex....errrrrr....'erotica' epic.
ARTIST-03: Another sure fire way for furry to make its mark, eh?
WRITER-04: I'm picking up a few tidbits of Furry spooge, just so I can keep
them and show them to folks 30 years from now and tell them about how bad it
got way back when. Whee!
WRITER-05 giggles: On with the review!
ARTIST-01: ARTIST-03, there have been some pretty good jewels in Furrlough
and Genus before, I'll grant the books that. You have to remember, I'm pretty
moderate in this whole thing. I'm trying to be impartial... Damned if anyone
would believe that after this, but... Aaaanyway, on with the review...
ARTIST-01 mmmfs: Then there is the frontispiece illustration, which is
really too vulgar for me to even comment on, and suckily drawn to boot...
Well, from what I can tell, it's a... I'm not sure what species she is, looks
like something striped, but it's an anime furry girl tit-fucking some unseen
silhouette creature, with his wad shot all over her like someone heaved a Big
Gulp cup filled with white primer paint in her face... She's grinning like a
drunken sailor... It's pretty loathesome...
ARTIST-02: Geeeez-uhz! This is the frontispiece?!?!?!?
ARTIST-01: Yes, this is the little picture above the table of contents...
You know, I'm actually getting depressed looking at this. This is what
people with the money to publish a comic print?
ARTIST-02: Pretty sad when porn makes ya depressed. Even sadder to realize
that the person who drew that image is a talented, rising cartoonist (Will
Allison) who's being led down an improper path. Oh well, -anything- to make
a buck, I suppose.
ARTIST-01 sighs, and goes on: Let's see... Yeah, you know, ARTIST-02, the
thing is this doesn't even qualify as porn to me... This is more like... The
sheddings of some sick mind... Some sick CHILDISH mind. It's so immature;
it's an image of what people who don't have sex think sex is like.
ARTIST-01: If the world of art was a movie theater, this stuff would be the
sticky mixture of spilled drinks, candy-laden spittle and other assorted
effluvia that makes up the layer on the floor that sticks to your shoes.
ARTIST-03: Or maybe the boogers under the seat.
ARTIST-01: In other words, this is the kind of thing that everyone would be
better off without. And for some reason, it is getting published in a fairly
slick format with a full color cover.
ARTIST-01: ahhh...Boogers too... Okay, well, let me move on to the stories
now that we have covered the high points of the issue...
ARTIST-01: Okay, let me first start with the disclaimer that whatever I say
here, I say based solely on the art and story, I don't KNOW any of these
artists, so if any of you are friends with them, remember, this is just about
their work.
ARTIST-02 quotes the Radio Comix web site: "The issue starts with a spicy
story from fan-favorite Joe Rosales, then heats up with another awe-inspiring
(some even say jaw-dropping) tale from James Hardiman! This issue is rounded
out with steamy bits from Brian Sutton and many more!"
ARTIST-01: Well, that's inaccurate... The comic starts out with a Mink story!
ARTIST-04 wonders perhaps that the "steamy bits" might be turds?
ARTIST-02: Ya know...Kjartan is actually a pretty good cartoonist. He can
write humor stuff. As for "adventure" stuff....ehhh. <shrugs>
ARTIST-01: I have always found The Mink to be a storyline that is ALMOST
enjoyable. The sad thing is that the characters and the art are actually nice
enough to make for a good read, until you get to the part where he crams in
the sex.
WRITER-05: "Ja! KRAM it in!"
ARTIST-01: Yet again, the reader wades through six or seven pages of Mink...
The story (this seems to be the plot used by about 50% of furry writers) is
about genetically engineered being bred for sex-slave purposes, and the
Mink's quest to free them from their owners. The story delivers a mixed
message, though, by simultaneously having the heroine attempting to free
them, while at the same time being the object of sexual tension from the
slave-beings!
ARTIST-01: Basically, the plotline of the Mink stories seems to be
"Genetically engineered beings can fuck, exploit and be fucked-and-exploited
by anyone as long as it wasn't the original buyer" ... The story is also, all
in all, a snore, and is the least comment-worthy thing in the book.
ARTIST-01: Ah, then we move on to the next story... A James Hardiman tale
that... Has no sex in it! No sex, and only a brief glimpse of a nipple in the
way of nudity. You see, in this story... James Hardiman is trying to be
clever.
ARTIST-02 uhohs: Smells like....trouble!
ARTIST-03: Smells like teen spirit.
ARTIST-02: Smells like the elevator at Confurence 8!
WRITER-04: Eeeew.
ARTIST-01 grins...
ARTIST-02 bows. :)
ARTIST-01: You see, ARTIST-02, with that line right there you just topped
everything that appeared in Genus!
ARTIST-02: Woohoo!! I could write for Genus! But...who WANTS to???" ;)
ARTIST-01: I... really can't go on about this Hardiman story any further...
Okay, yes I can. It's the tale of his three little skunk girls sharing
methods they use for avoiding having sex. I can see the points in this story
where the reader is supposed to be amused, but seeing them is all I can do...
I was not amused. This story was a waste of space... I'm getting depressed
again and must move on. I am sorry of this one fell flat, but there isn't
much I can find to say about it, save that bad writing isn't pretty.
ARTIST-02: It's jaw-dropping because there's NO sex in it.
WRITER-05 gasps at ARTIST-02! "N-n-n-no sex? What's the point!?
ARTIST-02: Yeah...I'm really suprised that a no-sex Hardiman story didn't
make it into Furrlough! What's it doing in Genus?
WRITER-05: The Hardiman tale is jaw-dropping because a skunkette doesn't
cram something larger than a softball up her twat?
ARTIST-01 replies: WRITER-05, exactly...
ARTIST-01 sighs and arrives at... "The Rosales tale that is supposed to
redefine the genre...
ARTIST-02: Put furry on de map! ;)
ARTIST-01: Put furry on the map indeed... Ooooh, God.
ARTIST-02: At Ground Zero? :)
ARTIST-01: Okay, here is the plot... A frustrated young artist, whose
species is dog... hmm... is having trouble with his artwork. He seems to be
feeling like he has not mastered his medium, and as he sits there ranting and
raving, his girlfriend, a rabbit, comes in and informs him that she has
purchased some art supplies for him, at which he expresses amazement.
ARTIST-01 continues summarizing the Rosales story: She shows him the art
supplies she bought for him, and it is... BODY PAINT! Ohhh, who saw THIS
coming...?
ARTIST-02: I've never seen Body Paint for sale in an art supply store
before. I wonder where Rosales shops?
ARTIST-03: Spencer's Gifts?
WRITER-05 laughs
ARTIST-02 LOL!
ARTIST-01: So this struggling dog artist proceeds to paint his rabbit
girlfriend up like a tiger over an excruciatingly slow three or four page
spread (she wears a blindfold throughout) and when he removes the blindfold
and she sees the paint job, she... Erm... imitates the actions of the tiger,
leaps on him, and fucks him silly.
WRITER-05: What genius. He turns the rabbit into a tigress.
WRITER-04: That's a bit of a yawner.
ARTIST-01: By the way, when I say excruciating, I don't mean that the sexual
tension was excruciating... I meant that the dialog was excruciating.
ARTIST-02 uhhhs..."That's the story? Isn't there some silly-ass punchline,
as Rosales usually does?
ARTIST-01: You know... I really want... WANT... To say... YES! Yes, there is
a witty punchline... I want to say that so badly. But I can't... Because
here is the punchline:
ARTIST-02 asides: Sucker-punchline.
ARTIST-01: The story ends with the dog artist showing his work to someone,
who comments about the pictures ... "Wow. Your inking on this has, like,
really improved, dude." ... To which the dog artist says "Thanks. I've been
working a lot on my brushwork." ...
ARTIST-01: And THAT... Is the story that will put furry on the map.
ARTIST-03: Uh.............
ARTIST-02 winces and nods.
ARTIST-03: Hmm....
WRITER-05's jaw drops alright.
ARTIST-03: ....What?
ARTIST-02 coughs politely.
ARTIST-03 totally misses the joke there.
ARTIST-01: Rosales, you utter bastard.
ARTIST-01: I hate him.
ARTIST-01: I hate ALL these fuckers.
WRITER-04: I've seen Rosales come up with better crap than that for crying
out loud. Was he sleepwalking through this one?
ARTIST-01: ARTIST-03, there is no joke really... What it is, is that the
artist was feeling inadequate with his work, so he applies all these paints
to his girlfriend with a brush, she jumps him, and then he says later that
he's been working on his brushwork... Kindergartners wouldn't laugh at this.
ARTIST-04: So, the moral of this story is, "Don't criticize artists. Fuck
them silly! It makes them better!"
ARTIST-02: You know...I've SEEN that near-exact punchline/story used before.
ARTIST-02: And the "Let's fuck and make everything all better"concept is a
VERY common theme that runs through furry art, writing and furry fandom.
Some people are convinced that if everyone would just have a big cluster-fuck
that all their problems would go away! Bleah.
WRITER-05: I can't believe anyone other than a high school kid would even
think that's deep, funny, or even remotely amusing. How socially maladjusted
are these furry fucks?
ARTIST-03: That makes no sense. Painting your girlfriend isn't gonna do
shit for your art. Maybe if he had made it some kind of pun... like if it
was a safari setting and he had claimed he had been "spending a lot of time
in the bush. But as it is, it has all the incisive wit of a kleenex in the
ocean.
ARTIST-01: WRITER-05, I think you are uncomfortably close to the truth... I
believe that this entire story was an attempt on the part of Rosales to blow
his own horn in various ways. In fact... This son-of-a-bitch
waste-of-paper-story of Rosales' took up... 11 pages!!!!!!!!
ARTIST-01: ELEVEN!!!!!!
ARTIST-02: Eleven pages?? It -did- seem awful long. <goes back and counts>
Yes, it's 11 pages!
ARTIST-04: What kind of asshole can spread a lame joke like that out over 11
pages??? What kind of stupid asshole prints that kind of story????
WRITER-05: An egomaniac.
ARTIST-03: Rosales can.
ARTIST-01: Rosales and Winkler!
ARTIST-03: Christ! Rosales could write an eleven-page paper, single-spaced
in 10-point font, on what he had for breakfast.
ARTIST-01: MY MONEY!!!! I was ROBBED!
ARTIST-02: GODAMMIT!! The more I think about it, the more pissed-off I
am!!! What a fuckin' jerk-off! From the posts I saw, Rosales talked like
this story was gonna be frickin' Anais Nin combined with "The goddam Pearl!"
Shit!
ARTIST-02: All that boasting and arrogance! I -KNEW- it was TOTAL AND UTTER
BULLSHIT THE ENTIRE TIME!!! Goddam furries!
WRITER-05: I wish furries were raised on Anais Nin instead of Hustler humor.
ARTIST-02: I am sorely tempted to drive to Texas and PERSONALLY kick someone
in the ASS!
ARTIST-01: Is that where they are? Jesus, give them a kick for me, and if
you can get Winkler's wallet, see if my six bucks for this month's comics is
in there.
ARTIST-03: After all the hype Winkkler and Rosales made -- of which I only
heard second-hand, so I can only assume it was more -- you are right to feel
robbed. You should post or write and complain.
ARTIST-01: You know, I must honestly blame Winkler, this is her fault... She
is printing stuff that should simply not be printed. Not for any decency
issue, but because it sucks. It is just BAD. It is NOT worth money.
ARTIST-01: Don't these people [the editors] read this shit? Do they ever
TRY to edit the material?
ARTIST-01: I mean, when... Let's say... Rosales... looks at a story he has
done and tries to decide whether or not it is good enough to sell, WHAT
standard is he comparing it to?
ARTIST-02: Hustler?
ARTIST-01: Well, ARTIST-03, I think you are right, I should. I should sit
down and write a very thorough and case-by-case review of why it sucks and
let them know. It wouldn't [do a bit of good]... To be honest, if Winkler
can sit there and look at this shit and say "Oh, yep, that's marketable" then
nothing will put a dent in her.
ARTIST-02: Well, I rather doubt that the quality is what's important to
Radio. What's of utmost importance is to stay on schedule...churning stuff
out steadily.
ARTIST-01: Well, I really wanted to deliver some kind of a flippant little
amusing review, but this just depresses me.
ARTIST-02 nods and sighs. :P
(and the conversation turned to other topics...)
----- end of log -----
SilverJain
Well, two actually.
First, if anyone is ever so completely unhappy that they feel they deserve
their money back, by all means write and send me back the comic they don't
like. Of course, include your REAL name, and REAL mailing address, so I can
mail you a refund check. It's not easy to send a check to "Fluffy the Wonder
Hamster".
Second, I NEVER said in any correspondence with ANYONE that this issue of Genus
was going to put "Furry on the map". Never. Not anywhere, not no how. And also,
if anyone is expecting "War and Peace" or the like from an adult comic, well,
they're smoking crack.
Oh, the only person this refund policy doesn't apply to is Betty Roget. We
reserve the right to refuse service to any persons for any reason, etc. etc.
To the others, I am very sorry you were not happy with your purchases.
--Elin Winkler at Radio Comix
"Remember, Zip, evil spelled backwards is live, and we all want to do that!"
-Mok, "Rock'n'Rule"
Ion Otter
lexis...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
And the Lord said, "Let there be snippage!"
Hmmmmm. A whole lot of stuff got snipped here. I wonder why? Well. I still
stand by my opinion that this was an excellent work of ART, thank you very much.
Now, a few questions do come to mind...
1. You certainly seem to be very adamant about the supposed lack of quality art
and the lack of plot, lack of this and that. My question is, Lexisaurus, do you
and your little clique have anything of your *own* that we may examine and
compare? Anything that we can view to formulate our own opinions? Anything at
all to contribute-besides rancor, derision and bile-to advancing the the general
wellness of the image of furry? Please let me/us know your website or send a
sample of your work.
2. This was a transcript of a "private muck" as you say. Hmmmmm. I'll leave
off on what I think of the concept of a private muck and carry on to the more
important question. It seemed that the conversation seemed very detailed,
coherent and linear. It also seemed that each person had a lot to say on
certain topics. It has been my experience that conversations on mucks and IRC
tend to consist of breif and concise statements. This is to conserve your
fingers and spare the others the boredom of waiting for a new paragraph to
appear.
So, my question is: was this really a word-for-word transcript or the
paraphrasing and summation of a much longer logfile?
3. Certain artists of the group seem to be particularly acerbic in their
assesment of Genus, yet they still buy it. One comments that he reads his
brother's issue, so this doesn't really count. My question here is: If they
dislike it so much, why do they buy it?
4. There certainly seems to be a lot of conversation on how degenerate the
medium was/is/is going to be. Why is it that there was no discussion on how the
medium was to be improved? Why was there no conversation on how you and yours
were going to contribute asthetically pleasing and intellectually stimulating
stories and art of your own? There certainly seems to be a whole lot of
talk-bad at that-but no action.
5. Just curious...who are you? Where'd you come from? I mean, your Deja-News
account only has you listed for one posting? An odd thing, if you ask me. I
mean, you and yours seem to have a very knowledgeable background on furry art
and comics, so you aren't exactly a newbie or one of those lameoids from
alt.syntax.tactical (etc.) If you were/are a regular poster here, why the
sudden identity cloak?
Thus ends my congenial and honestly asked questions. I truly desire answers, as
they were asked without rancor or bitter sarcasm. Mmmmmm, well, some of it was
sarcastic, but not in a cruel way. *shrugs*
/Rant
Meta_Tag:"Dangerous, Flammable, Material...Exercise Caution"
This is a point, not a question.
I do quote: "ARTIST-02: That's the kinda book you might consider shoplifting to
avoid paying for it...but then, you also have to consider the embarrassment
you'd suffer if you were caught. Catch 22."
Hmmmmmmm. A most interesting sentiment. This person speaks as though they would
actually perform such an act, let alone condone it.
Fine.
To date, I have seen the following businesses go under because of shoplifting:
Farenheit 451, Riverhead NY...Imaginations, Schnectady NY, Gameworld, Cobleskill
NY...CardMaster, Oneonta NY. This was all within the same state, and all of the
shops in question went under due to shoplifting. I've been involved in store
security at a supermarket, and can tell you that theft is our most significant
loss.
I don't want to see any other shops go under. They are too rare as it is. So,
if I see anyone shoplifting I will report them to the staff immediately.
And if I catch them outside, I will break their fucking hands.
And yes, that is a direct threat of bodily harm. If you fit the profile, you
are a target. My target.
I do NOT tolerate thieves.
Does this seem a little extreme? A little over the edge? Vigilantism you cry?
Oh, cry me an ocean why don't you? Tell it to the owners of the businesses that
shoplifters put OUT of business.
If you like your paws intact, don't let me catch you stealing. The Law *snort*
does not penalize shoplifters the way it should. IMNSHO, the Moslems have it
right. Errr...no pun intended.
Rant/
*Whew!* (shakes his fur out)
Well...now that that is over with, I suppose I can get on with my day.
Aloha, Lexisaurus! Aloha Nui Loa, in fact. It sounds like you and yours really
need some.
=============O <==[IonOtter, LogOut]
reply to: Em...@james.navy.mil.nospam.....we are underway on Tuesday.
Doodles
[Reads log file. Then reads Elin's response.]
M'lady, how in the nine names of Buddah you put up with this guff is
beyond me.
I have at agree with folks like Rich. This was one of the best issues
of that comic that you've published. And Joe's tale was _exactly_
what I think of when I consider quality in erotica. Bravo to him.
And bravo to you for a very measured reply.
Unca Spooge, now willing to defind Elin from all dangers and the
occasional fursuit.
David White
David White
Keep up the good work and screw them.
_____________________________________________________
David White aka Kathmandu
Visit my web page at http://www.vidnet.net/~katmandu or to see a more
complete list of my work with thumbnails at
http://furry.ao.net/Artists/David-White/
Remove (x) from my email address to reply or click here katm...@vidnet.net
"Bigger sword for more head splitting action" Actual quote from a Warrior
Nun action figure ad. I thought rulers were their weapons of choice.
William Haskell
>
> Aloha!
>
> Richard Chandler - WA Resident wrote:
>
> > love to see it in color. A story about colored bodypaint kinda loses
> > something in black and white, like the base coat.)
>
> color work. Someone who is good (J. Rosales, S. Howard, to name a very few) can
> bring out more color with plain old India Ink by conveying *emotion* in the work.
> The mind does not need actual color to "see" color if the story and artwork are
> powerful.
>
> Like some black and white photos I've seen. They seem more..."real"...somehow.
> Ansel Adams would be an EXCELLENT example of that.
>
I'm not sure, but I *think* it was Ansel Adams who once said that in
photography one should use color to convey information - and b&w to
convey a mood.
Ion Otter
Joe Rosales wrote:
> HA HA HA HA HAA! Oh Pig -- I mean lexisaurus, or PigCop, or a. solomon, or Betty Roget,
>or Liz, or whatever you're calling yourself >today --this was so rich! It's the funniest
>thing I've read in days!
AHHND the LAWD SAY-ID....LET...THERE...BE...snip_PAHGE!!! (*AY-men!*)
*snip*
> It's *always* so obviously _you_.
She shore is a purdy lookin' thang, ain't she?
*She shooore is...*
Les' go git' er!
YEEEEEEEE-HAW!! *Squeek! GulpGulpGulp!* Hah-hahhah!
*Shakes head* Wubba-wubba-wubba!
Whoooah, Nelly! Bit too much Red Neck Rampage, there. Sorry...
=========O <==[IonOtter, LogOut]
tamar_...@my-dejanews.com
You know, folks are really brave when they use aliases to trash someone elses
work. Don't sweat it Joe and Elin. The fact that these jokes even bother
calling themselves artists and writers is a insult to all those who acturally
participate in the activities. A call to them to show the public what works
they have created, drawn, or written in comparison to the works they've
degraded would be pointless, cause you can't expect slugs to suddenly grow
backbones and be the men or women they claim to be. Funny though that all
they while, while they were trashing the book, they seem to have obviously
read, reread, and taken the time to analize something they hated so much.
Can't say anything I didn't like would have been on my mind in such great
detail for so long.
So I'll say, and I hardly ever say the word, "F" them. If they want to talk
let them use their real names and show some work they've done or had
published. Joe probably drew better than these jokers when he was in 6th
grade than they do now.
Shawntae Howard aka
Ebony Leopard
OffCentaur
Given as a gift by my sister with advice that Joe "Art Guy" Rosales was inside.
And ignore "Adults only" on the cover. She figure I was one since I'm her big
brother (Age not height wise)
Monty's cover. Tastefully done. The hands/paws that were complained about.
Accurate. Pick up your bunny and look. Ths=is would be how they translate.
Facial structure. Perfect. What a rabbit face would look similar when
combined with human features.
Frontpiece. *Ack! Sex! I believe the non coarse term is ejaculating through
cleavage. Could have done without.
The Mink - Well scripted and plotted. Since I jumped in in the middle and
don't know what is going on, I understood fully. Well rounded characters.
Good anatomy. One sex fantasy panel.
Skunks - Excellent advice on how to avoid sex. Some of the 1st 2 pagesI didn't
get. I don't know the characters. Otherwise it was absolutely hilarious. A
scream. Excellent artwork. Good progression of sugggestions on how to avoid
sex. Delightfully wicked final suggestion.
Art Lesson by Mr. Rosales. The best stroy/art I've ever seen of his. Not at
all along the line of his Romantics. There was sex! OOG! But it was by my
idol Mr. Rosales, so I'll forgive him. How could I hate this story. Excellent
layouts, plotting, panels, art work. If all furry sensual art (I said sensual,
there is a difference between this and sex) was this good, I'd be a camp
follower, unfortunately it isn't. The care and love between painter and
canvas. No sex yet kiddies, but we may get there! To the final paint job!
Then to the passion! Sensual passion at its best. Two equals exchanging
affection. Among other things. The character's words rang true. Two kind and
caring people. The humorous banter all the way to the final punchline.
Excellent anatomy, well defined muscles during the love session. Proper
proportions. Marvelous postures. A true text book example of how furry art
should be done. No flaws, no mistakes, no errs of any kind. The man is
talented and coloring would have greatly diminished the story. I'm glad this
is a B&W book.
Thisstory alone made the gift well received.
Question: Will I begin buying Genus now that my sister has introduced me? No.
I don't like the adult nature of the comic series.
How can I judge after reading one comic? I asked my sister who knows my tastes
in furry art if there were any other issues suitable for me to read. She
answered "no." So I won't purchase. If there are any she thinks I might enjoy
in the future, I'm sure she'll send them to me. For that I thank her.
If you don't like what you see, vote with your eyes and your dollars. Don't go
around bad mouthing. Censor only what you yourself are viewing and leave the
rest of fandom out of your decisions. Who are you to dictate what the rest of
fur fandom should, can and will view?
And get a life too while you're at it. I enjoy mine and use tame furry to
relax. You take yourselves much to seriously. You need a hobby. May I
suggest helping out a farmer this month in the assisting of bringing new life
into this world? I have several openings available. Pay is $10/hour post
taxes and 3 meals thrown in to boot. And I'm not talking idiotic meals,
talking T-bones, homemade corn bread, specialty hot cocoas, and homegrown
fruits and vegetables. And all the homemade cookies, chocolates and pie you
can snack on through the day. Plus there is eyecandy in the barns where you
work. And since you are so worried about pornography. Relax! This is
pastoral Renaissance furry art. No nudity, sex or violence. Just good,
squeaky clean art.
I'm going back to house cleaning to get ready for my sister's birthday visit.
Boring day today. No births. The animals shot yesterday to heck in a
handbasket. I didn't get any of my Valentine plans accomplished. So if
anybody should be griping, I figure it should be me! And I guess that I am
griping. 2 more weeks wait until a birthday celebration and I need one now!
Ucalegon
Matthigh
Relax, Elin. It was just a made-up troll, by someone who has a grudge against
you and Joe (I have a pretty good idea who), and posted here *anonymously* to
get you riled up.
Best just to ignore it. In fact, that's a good idea for **ANYBODY** who posts
under a pseudonym or posts anonymously. If someone *really* believes in what
they say, they won't hide behind a fake persona.
Ignore it - it's all made up.
Best,
- mlh
Joe Rosales
> On a private muck
>
> 2/9/99, around 4 a.m.
>
> Artists discussion. The subject has turned to Genus #33.
HA HA HA HA HAA! Oh Pig -- I mean lexisaurus, or PigCop, or a.solomon,
or Betty Roget, or Liz, or whatever you're calling yourself today --
this was so rich! It's the funniest thing I've read in days!
Even for a forgery, this was an incredibly shoddy piece of work. A MUCK
transcript in which five participants don't commit a single typo for
what, ten pages? And I notice not a single acronym -- no LOLs, no
IMHOs, no FOTFLs. And there's what, two expression icons? You -- I
mean they -- even take the time to spell out the word "grins" every time
it comes up! Hee hee hee!
And in all the discussion, not one of them even brings up another book.
At no point does anyone say, "I liked this book, or that writer, or that
artist better." They don't even mention what they *do* read or like, in
*any* book or genre. Suuuure, these are real fans! I knew Pig hated
everything, but what a giveaway!
I suppose this sort of lame counterfeiting attempt counts as cleverness,
in a kind of I.R. Baboon kind of way. But really, Pig, it's just not
nice to tell someone that they're stupid because they like something you
don't. And this hatred thing leaves me concerned -- perhaps you should
seek professional counseling. It's like the voices in your head have
learned how to type.
To all the rest of you, I once again apologize for Pig's behavior.
Another alias, another pointless attack because she can't let a
compliment pass -- really, Pig, you need a new hobby. And at least put
some work into these little lies and trolls! Their transparancy is the
most insulting thing about them. It's *always* so obviously _you_.
To everyone else who actually did enjoy my story, I'm glad. And if you
*did* feel ripped off, I'll gladly double Elin's money-back offer. I
want all of you who take the time to read my work to be as happy as you
can possibly be!
Except for Pig. I wish for her to be as happy as she deserves to be,
and to have the kind of love and joy that she gives to others.
That would certainly make *me* happy.
-- Joe
Visit my website full of stuff at http://www.FurNation.com/Animus. Hey,
it's on the internet, so at least it's free -- even if it is the kind of
poorly-drawn degenerate hackwork that Pig, I mean lexisaurus, or Betty,
or whatever, can't stand. See for yourself! How can you stand it?!
Brian O'connell
Ion Otter wrote in message <36C92D6B...@hotmail.com>...
>Waaaaallll, there. Seems a'like there mite be sum fun!
>Joe Rosales wrote:
or Betty Roget,
It's the funniest
>>thing I've read in days!
>*snip*
>*She shooore is...*
>Les' go git' er!
>YEEEEEEEE-HAW!! *Squeek! GulpGulpGulp!* Hah-hahhah!
She's got a purdy mouth, still has 1/3 her real teeth...
Gwydion
>Just thought I should say one thing-
>
>Well, two actually.
>
>First, if anyone is ever so completely unhappy that they feel they deserve
>their money back, by all means write and send me back the comic they don't
>like. Of course, include your REAL name, and REAL mailing address, so I can
>mail you a refund check. It's not easy to send a check to "Fluffy the Wonder
>Hamster".
>
>Second, I NEVER said in any correspondence with ANYONE that this issue of Genus
>was going to put "Furry on the map". Never. Not anywhere, not no how. And also,
>if anyone is expecting "War and Peace" or the like from an adult comic, well,
>they're smoking crack.
>
>Oh, the only person this refund policy doesn't apply to is Betty Roget. We
>reserve the right to refuse service to any persons for any reason, etc. etc.
>
>To the others, I am very sorry you were not happy with your purchases.
Elin, I think it's safe to say that this is a fairly blatant troll. On
top of what mlh says (since he's fairly sure he knows the
mouth-breathers behind it), let's look at some of the clues:
1) The whole thing was posted from Deja News, from a poster that
hasn't appeared on AFF before. While I realize that some posters do
use Deja News for their posting needs (God alone knows why... it's one
ofhte most agrivating ways of browsing Usenet ever... but I digress)
2) Speaking of digressions... this post was, almost in it's entirety,
an amalgam of several of Peter David's BID columns. David's used this
format before, usually when parodying panels at comic conventions and
certain comic companies's exec. board decisions.
3) The handles on the "log". "Artist-1"? "Writer-5"? Uh huh. In my
(admittedly limited) experience with MUCKing and IRC'ing it's rather
rare that someone will actually assign themselves a handle like
"Artist-1". You're more likely to find "Shdwkitty", "Rhruudprt145"
and "Tgrnge9923". But of course, this is a *private* MUCK, so
<sarcasm> higher standards must be kept, don't you know? </sarcasm>.
All things considered Elin, I think it's safe to say that you may
safely discard this as a rather sad troll.
Watch them bridges now, y'hear?
Gwydion
Come visit Studio Underhill
http://www.studiounderhill.com
all...@blkbox.com
> To the others, I am very sorry you were not happy with your purchases.
Well, I've not gotten my 33 yet. I don't make the pilgrimage to my
comic store but once a month. But I've been happy with my purchases
from Radio Comix so far. I still prefer Furrlough over Genus, but
thems my opinions.
And since there's no way all that typing could have been in any muck,
I'd say the post was nothing more than a shot at you from an anonymous
mouse. I suppose one cannot be well-known without attracting a few
enemys. 2K paragraphs in muck-time... yeah, right. Ferrets on meth
can't type that fast.
Allen Kitchen (shockwave)
Florian
>
<snippo>
I agree with the bulk of your post, though have a few dissenting
opinions.
> My question is, Lexisaurus, do you
> and your little clique have anything of your *own* that we may examine and
> compare?
I don't have to make my own movie to know that Spice World sucks. (Not
that I have an opinion about the stories in the current Genus; haven't
seen more than the cover yet--though IMHO the cover should have been
more reserved)
> IMNSHO, the Moslems have it right.
I don't want anything to do with their 'justice' system.
Brian O'connell
<7a8sp5$60m$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
<pathetic cowardly trolling snipped>
How to respond... Oh, wait, I've been saving this one for
something/someone stupid...
Hey Gojjira! *ROAR!*
250 ton radioactive turd lands on Lexisaurus' head...
You know how long I had to feed the big lizrd oat bran for that? *grin*
Cerulean
>3) The handles on the "log". "Artist-1"? "Writer-5"? Uh huh. In my
>(admittedly limited) experience with MUCKing and IRC'ing it's rather
>rare that someone will actually assign themselves a handle like
>"Artist-1". You're more likely to find "Shdwkitty", "Rhruudprt145"
>and "Tgrnge9923". But of course, this is a *private* MUCK, so
><sarcasm> higher standards must be kept, don't you know? </sarcasm>.
I think that was meant to appear as if they had been changed to
protect the anonymity of the participants in this "private"
conversation.
This is just an academic quibble, of course, considering that this
verbose book review is unlikely to really have been a real-time event.
And even if it were, it still only presents the opinion of one person
who has read the issue. All the other alleged people are just cheering
on the badmouthing and saying, "yeah, that does sound like it's bad."
--
___vvz /( Cerulean http://home.att.net/~kevinpease
<__,` Z / ( DC.D/? fs+h++ Gm CB^P a$m++d+++l*g-e!i
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( o6u!oq - ,,Jnoj uo +ou s6a7 om+ uo >7eM,,
Richard Chandler - WA Resident
CLEARLY missed the point of Joe's story. If the whole thing was a setup for a
joke, well, you missed it. The point of the story was the journey, not the
destination.
And after bitching about the joke, to go on about how technically doing
bodypaint won't help one's inking.... COME ON! How can anyone make this kind
of addled criticism seriously?
In a way, it's like reading Plato. Plato was an Ass, in my opinion. He led
around a group of yes men, and led them down false paths, and then smacked
them all for agreeing with the wrong thing. Unfortunately, "Artist-1" is just
as stupid as the rest of Plato's sycophants, and will never get the smacking
she so richly deserves for being wrong.
Doodles
<joea...@NOSPAMstic.net> wrote:
>lexisaurus:
>> On a private muck
>>
>> 2/9/99, around 4 a.m.
>>
>> Artists discussion. The subject has turned to Genus #33.
>
>HA HA HA HA HAA! Oh Pig -- I mean lexisaurus, or PigCop, or a.solomon,
>or Betty Roget, or Liz, or whatever you're calling yourself today --
>this was so rich! It's the funniest thing I've read in days!
I understand that in her copiuous spare time, she works for Kenneth
Starr... =};-3
>To everyone else who actually did enjoy my story, I'm glad. And if you
>*did* feel ripped off, I'll gladly double Elin's money-back offer. I
>want all of you who take the time to read my work to be as happy as you
>can possibly be!
Money back? I have to remember to get a few more copies to send out
to poor folks in other countries! =};-3
Unca Spooge, tickled pink.
swilk...@mail.techplus.com
(all 5 pages duly snipped, shredded, and sprinkled onto the
floor of Fluffy the Wonder Hamster's cage as fresh litter)
Hey, cool! Some good _did_ come outta this post! :)
- Sean
Emi Melissa Briet
>
> *She shooore is...*
>
> Les' go git' er!
>
> YEEEEEEEE-HAW!! *Squeek! GulpGulpGulp!* Hah-hahhah!
P-CHAN!!!! NO!!!!!! O.o;;
--Emi
--
Emi Briet -- Adecco's kawaii tempie-chan! ^_^
Keep hot water with you at all times!
RC[1.0]: r+(+) R!++ AG HS x++ SP Du+ m+ mu++ E:#transgen H F:+ a26
d+ s-: NA x Sch:CS,BA L:E m+ M w++ N,IE
Dr. Cat
: And if I catch them outside, I will break their fucking hands.
: And yes, that is a direct threat of bodily harm. If you fit the profile, you
: are a target. My target.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe you like the idea of violence too
much for your own good? Oh, and vengeance too. Violence and vengeance.
Liking them too much for your own good, and all, maybe.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: There are some problems that can be solved without violence
- but if you do it that way you don't get those pretty red stains left
behind after.)
(Disclaimer disclaimer: Ok, ok, I know blood turns brownish when it dries
and all. But if I put "brown stains" in that last disclaimer, it wouldn't
have sounded like blood, and I don't even want to *think* of what y'all
would have assumed I meant.)
lexis...@my-dejanews.com
2/16/99, around 3 a.m.
Artists discussion.
----- start log -----
Artist-1 says, "I suppose you all have seen some of the replies generated
from the posting of our round robin commentary on Genus 33?"
Artist-2 says, "Some folks are suggesting that the commentary and log were
forged. :)"
Artist-1 says, "Yeah, it was forged...forged from time-after-time of extreme
letdown and disgust!"
Artist-1 says, "You know, rereading that log, the individual comments among
us are diverse enough, even without knowing who is which pseudonym. Too much
so, to be easily forged. If JoRo [Joe Rosales] was half the talent he thinks
he is, he would have either recognized that, or realized the level of skill
it would take to put such nuances into a "forgery.""
Artist-3 says, "Hehehe... they also use the cry of being gutless because we
used aliases... of course we did. Anything otherwise would probably get us
mail-bombed and banned from some mucks."
Artist-4 says, "The follow-up is called 'heere pig' ... because JoRo assumes
the poster is someone called 'PigCop'."
Artist-1 says, "You know what one does when they assume..."
Artist-3 says, "Hehehe.. Joe has no idea how stupid he's looking, carrying on
about this PigCop. I mean, that was... what, 5 months ago?"
Artist-2 grins. "PigCop really musta got under his skin.
Artist-1 bahs, and waves a hand... "Just shows it made an impact."
Artist-2 nods at Artist-3. "JoRo has either never mastered his newsreader or
else (like ninnies like the SqueakyPony) he feels the need to start new
threads each time, in order to call attention to his /oh-so-special/ post.
Artist-3 says, "Joe's big show of laughing off our comments suggests one of
two things.. either he has a truly impenetrable ego, or we got to him and
he's trying to provide external means of justifying ignoring us.. kind of
like how you talk yourself through a situation out loud."
Artist-1 says, "Artist-3, I think the second one is the one which applies."
Artist-3 says, "That would be my guess as well."
Artist-1 thinks JR was hit... "We shot JR."
Artist-3 says, "Gave him a literary facial."
Writer-1 says, "In person, JoRo is a quiet polite guy who looks like
Esquivel. Really nice guy. I only had a problem with him once the ego posts
came my way."
Artist-4 says, "JoRo is amazingly self absorbed, he can be actually a person
who can be selfless, but he has to have the last word and the last
opinion..."
Artist-1 says, "I anxiously await his last word, Artist-4."
Artist-1 says, "And his last opinion."
Artist-4 says, "There is never an end to his last word Artist-1, it's an
infinite arms race..."
Writer-1 blinks at Rich Chandler's kiss-ass response about JoRo's sordid
boring tale! Are these people insane?
Artist-3 says, "I can't believe these people take this crap so seriously."
Artist-2 grins. "Rosales is the ArtGuy!!!! He's a SERIOUS artist!!!
Artist-1 reads and GAAAAHS at the Ion Otter post!
Artist-2 says, "I like how compliments from furry nonsense names like Ion
Otter are acceptable..but any sort of criticism from a dejanews account is
found questionable."
Artist-1 quotes from a post: "The emotions seemed to genuine..? I bet this
was taken from RL?" Oh, okay, draw some female on all fours gasping for 11
pages and you suddenly break the genuine emotion barrier..."
Writer-1 says, "Rosales missed complaining about a "LOL," btw"
Artist-3 says, "...as for the lack of typos or acronyms... well, that's what
you get when you type with both hands."
Writer-1 says, "Forgive us for being so educated."
Artist-4 says, "There's probably less need for spell checkers and editors in
this chat group than there is in a single submission for a furry comic."
Artist-1 quotes a post, "Real people make tons of mistakes and use tons of
emoticons." All I can say in reply to that is "That's why it's a PRIVATE
MUCK, you idiots!"
Artist-3 says, "I just came across the first response after the log.. that
Ion Otter guy.. same old song.. "Where can we see YOUR art?" I'd gladly show
you, if I wanted to risk associations with this crap."
Artist-1 notes that the proper response to the "where can we see your art"
line is "When I start charging you money to view my art, then you can judge
it and I'll take you seriously as a customer."
Artist-1 says, "Half the reason you don't wanna shut them up with art is cuz
they'll be pestering you for commissions and such."
Artist-1 says, "And I doubt it would do any good anyway. Michelangelo would
be ranked below Rosales because he's not a "fan favorite.""
Artist-2 says, "I wouldn't want my name associated with "furry."
Artist-4 says, "I guess that Rosales will be scooping up the spooge
commissions now."
Artist-1 says, "Art is ranked by the furry daisy chain."
Artist-2 grins and says, "Wow! Joe's at the front -NOW-...woohooo!"
Artist-1 says, "So, us calling ourselves "artists" is an insult because we
don't participate in the spooge parade..."
Artist-2 says, "Now...admittedly, Rosales -is- a better artist than a lotta
furry artists (he can ink to a point), but he can't really draw that
well...he appears to use a lot photoreference. His work lacks what I'd call
'soul'. "
Artist-1 says, "Rosales' stuff looks unfinished.. as you said, he can draw to
a point, but his stuff looks like he never bothered to learn to push it
beyond that point. It smacks of typical furry complacency."
Artist-3 says, "The writing was worse than his art... The writing is
basically what killed everything in the book. These same artists, if they
could write their way out of a perforated condom, could be amazingly
entertaining."
Artist-3 says, "Actually, it would be damned entertaining watching them try
to write their way out of a perforated condom."
Artist-1 says, "Most of furrydom is marked by lack of talent.. what isn't is
marked by mediocrity. I've never really seen any well-known furry material
that is truly excellent upon examination."
Artist-3 says, "Nothing that started out with the intention of being furry,
anyway. I think one of the main problems with furry from an artistic
standpoint is that it was spawned from material done by people who never gave
their work as a genre a second thought, and were pursuing a vision. Now, it
has turned into a bunch of fans wanting to do furry for furry's sake, and
that almost always leads to utter shit."
Artist-3 nods, "Funny animal stuff winds up good because the morphs are a
novelty or a by-product... a tool. Furry stuff winds up suffering because
the morphs are the prime focus."
Artist-1 says, "Like <evoking the name> Pogo, or Shoe. They gain charm from
being swamp critters and birds, but that's really only a vechicle."
Artist-4 says, "Name one furry comic artist who wrote good stories?"
Writer-1 says, "I liked John Nunnemacher's Buffalo Wings stories."
Artist-1 says, "The "critically acclaimed" Albedo is
boooooooooorrrrrriiinnnnngggg."
Artist-3 says, "Albedo IS a snore... A friend lent me all of the compilations
and it was certainly a cure for insomnia. And for passion. And for visions of
a bright tomorrow."
Artist-2 nods at Artist-1. "I agree. Albedo was BORING. The first few issues
were interesting as a novelty...but the entire thing was just rather
laughable."
Artist-1 says, "Shanda could have been interesting as a soap/slice-of-life
story were it not for all of the sex and crapola."
Artist-1 says, "Even Disney's Robin Hood, though a classic story, is dulled
by its animal interpretations and such. It has its moments, but otherwise it
drags."
Artist-2 says, "The Robin Hood story was the standard story but the
characterizations were well-done."
Artist-1 says, "And mostly the moments are a moment of expression on the
character's face or stuff like Pat Buttram as the sheriff."
Artist-1 says, "Actually, the story used in the movie is *loosely* based on
the originals.. like what is originally the tournament of the silver arrow...
but it's so wrapped in a fuzzy blanket you gotta endure it."
Writer-1 says, "The reason furries like the comics is because before they
find the fandom, they search all over for stuff that justifies their little
furry fetish, and then Genus/Albedo/Omaha is sent to them from on high."
Writer-1 says, "Albedo is boring and Omaha was soap opera dreck."
Artist-2 says, "I trash Omaha all the time, but compared to everything else
I've seen in furry...Omaha is a masterwork of writing."
Artist-4 says, "Anything anymore in publishing is pretty much target
marketing, if nothing else, this fandom is a creepy barometer of things to
come in the greater society, mark my words.."
Artist-1 says, "I think a lot of the spinoff novels for Trek, Star Wars, and
D&D were harbingers before furry was."
Artist-2 says, "Furry fandom is an amateur fandom pretending to be
"pro"...The vast majority of the art and stories are amateur."
Artist-3 nods, "And what is considered pro in furrydumb is considered highly
amateurish even in other fandoms."
Artist-4 says, "it's all just the entryway. Face it, American culture is in
for a load of mediocrity being labeled as prime cut....this is no
different.."
Artist-1 says, "You know, looking through the comments on Genus 33.... ours
were the only ones that even came close to any actual critique. The only
other comments about its art and writing, in the other posts, were "the BEST
I've ever seen!""
Artist-2 says, "Artist-3...The "best I've ever seen" comments ARE what passes
as 'critique' in Furry."
Artist-3 says, "Anything else is hate-mongering, or forged."
Artist-2 says, "Anything saying the opposite is seen as "Nazism" or Hate."
Artist-3 nods, "Ours are unintelligent because they're negative."
Artist-2 says, "And properly spelled!"
Artist-1 says, "HAH! I like the post that just says "twits" ... I can respect
that one. :)"
Artist-2 says, "Yeah, but read his next post, Artist-1."
Artist-1 says, "Oh, damn it, he didn't quit while he was ahead, did he?"
Artist-2 laughs and says, "I rather did like the "Twits" one though."
Artist-1 sees that "Keep up the good work and screw them" was the next post
from "Twits" ... "Well... He's still my favorite detractor!" ...
Artist-2 grins. "He could STILL be talking about either side, you know. ;)
Artist-1 says, "Heh! Indeed, his vaguery is a strength! Nobody knows whether
to hate him or love him."
Artist-2 says, "Well, everyones hates us...that can't be denied. ;)"
Artist-1 is glad he doesn't read newsgroups.
Artist-2 nods at Artist-1. "That's the amusing thing about all of this....Not
a whit of this matters anywhere in RL. It's just fun to torture them, is
all. ;)"
Artist-3 says, "It's a fun little past-time, indeed."
Artist-2 says, "Furries can't deal with the truth....so they claim it's all
lies."
Artist-1 says, "It's really sad though! I mean, you know, things like the
Genus review, I can laugh about it for a little while, but when you stop
laughing, it's really hideous."
Artist-2 says, "It? Genus?"
Artist-1 says, "The fact that people so wholeheartedly and knee-jerkedly love
it to the point that they have the immediate ejaculation reaction they have
to it, and that they don't even think. Or that Rosales would post what he
posted without addressing ONE critical point."
Artist-2 says, "i don't see HOW they can take ANY pride in a book like that.
In some ways, I guess they're like most furries....they can look past the
bad stuff and see only the "good."
Writer-1 says, "well, your review was a little acidic :)"
Artist-1 says, "Yeah, the review was acid, but it was honest."
Writer-1 says, "I'm not saying it was wrong. But what kind of reaction did
you expect? Reasoned debate?"
Artist-1 says, "Yeah, like I said before, none of this is commentary on the
people, but rather, on what they are asking money for."
Artist-2 says, "I admire that Winkler can "keep on schedule" and keep
churning the books out....however, if the books are not worth reading, then
what's the point?"
Artist-1 says, "Which in some ways is commentary on the people...Okay,
actually, it's only commentary on the people's ethical
Artist-2 says, "Why don't these people just publish fanzines, or something?
That's the level of 90% of the material."
Artist-1 says, "Alright, actually, it's commentary on the people, ripoff
artists that they are, thinly disguised as an acedemic analysis."
Artist-2 says, "I only posted that log...to show people that not everyone
loves Genus. Not everyone loves something just because it's furry."
Writer-1 says, "And that's exactly why they love and defend it. Because it's
furry. That's all."
Artist-1 says, "Writer-1, I know the review was scathing, but when someone
says a story is badly written, getting a reaction of "You asshole, I know who
you are, Pig Cop, I laugh at you" is pretty disappointing."
Writer-1 says, "Artist-1, you mocked it cruelly. Rightfully so, but what did
you expect in return? You guys aren't out to fix it. Be honest. You wanted
to trash it for the piece of shit it was. ;)"
Artist-1 says, "Well, Writer-1, remember, that wasn't even intended for
posting. I'd just putting myself in their position and imagining how I'd
react. The least they could have done was to attack in return, just as
mockingly and cruelly. And at LEAST not to have latched onto some incorrect
assumption about who posted it, and use that as the entire argument."
Artist-2 says, "You see....we simply raised logical questions....like any
good editor should have done."
Artist-1 says, "You two can say what you want, but I have to stick by what I
said earlier. I have enjoyed some past stuff that's been in Genus and
Furrlough, and I would love to see it become a better book."
Writer-1 says, "I dunno if I should be happy or sad that my local comic shop
stopping carrying Genus, looks like. I couldn't find the latest issue to leaf
through."
Artist-2 says, "Hey...I liked some stuff in Furrlough in the past, back when
it was Antarctic."
Artist-1 says, "Shit, time was when I first started getting it, I used to
actually think about trying to get published in Furrlough. I used to really
think it was cool!"
Artist-1 says, "I'd just like to see some funny adult stories done in Genus
and some actual good stories done in Furrlough. I don't want to see a bunch
of spurting."
Artist-1 says, "Anyway, I don't want my attitudes to be mistaken for the
attitudes of one who wishes to bring privation to anyone, but rather, just as
the barking of a pissed off consumer who paid a bit of money and did not feel
the product purchased was worth it. Indeed, there is more to my attitude than
there would be had I just bought a moldy bag of Tostitos, but in the end, I
would be appeased by simple efforts to preserve freshness and flavor in
future purchases."
Artist-2 snickers
Artist-1 says, "As opposed to gettin' a great huge bag of rat droppings,
labelled Tostitos."
Artist-2 has been pissed off for a while...and only got Genus to read JoRo's
story. "Now I won't be buying it no more. That's part of what I was hoping
to convey...that people WERE getting irritated and dropping the books."
Artist-1 says, "Ah well, I... I really... You know what I'd love?"
Artist-1 says, "I'd love to go buy the next Genus, or Furrlough, and have it
knock my damned socks off, and be able to sit there and laugh, and go, "Wow,
this was neat. I love this. I want more of this."
Artist-3 nods.
Artist-2 sighs. "I miss 'Critters'."
And the conversation moved on...
=== end of log ===
StukaFox
Why do you think it is that, taken as a whole, people on AFF
cannot address criticism without resorting to the
troll/flamer/forgery gambit?
StukaFox
Peter da Silva
Stuka, don't get up in arms about this, but you're trolling.
I've seen plenty of dissension that didn't fall into any of these
categories. I've also seen plenty of trolls and flamers.
It's not "crying wolf" when there's really a wolf there, no offense
intended to the fine lupine-americans in our midst.
--
This is The Reverend Peter da Silva's Boring Sig File - there are no references
to Wolves, Kibo, Discordianism, or The Church of the Subgenius in this document
"If you don't have 64 bits, you're not playing with a full DEC."
Shonmania
2/16/99, around 3 a.m.
Artists discussion.
----- start log -----
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "I suppose you all have seen some of the replies
generated
from the posting of our round robin commentary on Genus 33?"
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "Some folks are suggesting that the
commentary and log were forged. Damn, how'd they know?"
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "Yeah, it was forged...forged from time-after-time
of personal letdown and self-disgust!"
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "You know, rereading that log, the individual
comments among us are not diverse enough, even without knowing who is which
pseudonym;
Too much the same ideas; easily forged. If JoRo [Joe Rosales] thinks he is
rid of us, he's WRONG!!""
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "Hehehe... they also use the cry of being
gutless because we used aliases... of course we did. Anything otherwise would
probably get us
mail-bombed and banned from some mucks again."
Artist-4(Jim Varny Doll) shrieks, "WE ARE SO MUCH COOLER THAN HIM!!"
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "God, I hate him..."
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "Hehehe.. Joe has no idea how stupid he's
looking, carrying on about us. I mean, that was... what, 5 months ago?"
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) grins. "PigCop really musta got under his skin.
Artist-1(lexisaurus) bahs, and waves a hand puppet... "Just shows it made an
impact."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) nods at Artist-3. "JoRo has either never mastered
his newsreader or
else (like ninnies like the SqueakyPony) he feels the need to start new
threads each time, in order to call attention to his /oh-so-special/ post.
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "Joe's big show of laughing off our comments
suggests one of
two things.. either we're REALLY stupid, or...uh...I guess that's it."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "Artist-3, I think the second one is the one which
applies."
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "That would be my guess as well."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) thinks JR was hit... "We shot JR."
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says to Artist- 1, "Please don't touch yourself
while we're talking, it's rude."
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "In person, JoRo is a quiet polite guy who looks
like
Esquivel. Really nice guy. I only had a problem with him once it became clear
he was in our way"
Artist-4(Jim Varny Doll) says, "JoRo is amazingly self absorbed, not like
us..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "I anxiously await his last breath, Artist-4."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "And his last opinion."
Artist-4(Jim Varny Doll) says, "There is never an end to his last word
Artist-1, it's an
infinite arms race..."
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) blinks at Rich Chandler's kiss-ass response about JoRo's
sordid
boring tale! "Are these people insane?"
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "I can't believe these people take our crap so
seriously."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) grins. "Rosales is the ArtGuy!!!! He's a SERIOUS
artist!!!
Artist-1(lexisaurus) reads and grinds his teeth at the Ion Otter post!
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "I like how compliments from furry nonsense
names like Ion
Otter are acceptable..but any sort of criticism from a dejanews account is
found questionable."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) quotes from a post: "The emotions seemed to genuine..? I
bet this
was taken from RL?" Oh, okay, draw some female on all fours gasping for 11
pages and you suddenly break the genuine emotion barrier..."
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "Rosales must die..."
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "...as for the lack of typos or acronyms...
well, that's what you get when you type with both hands."
(uncomfortable silence)
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "Forgive us for being so...."
Artist-4(Jim Varny Doll) says, "There's probably less need for spell checkers
and editors in this "chat group" than there is in a single submission for a
furry comic."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) quotes a post, "Real people make tons of mistakes and use
tons of
emoticons." All I can say in reply to that is "That's why it's a PRIVATE
MUCK, you idiots!"
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "I just came across the first response after
the log.. that Ion Otter guy.. same old song.. "Where can we see YOUR art?"
I'd gladly show
you, if I wanted to risk showing this crap."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) notes that the proper response to the "where can we see
your art"
line is "When I...well, I'm just not ready, that's all...yeah"
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "Half the reason you don't wanna shut them up with
art is cuz
they'll be pestering you for commissions and such, on account of I'm so good
and all...I'm ...just not ready..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "And I doubt it would do any good anyway.You would
be ranked below Rosales because you're not a "fan favorite.""
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "I wouldn't want my name associated with
"furry."
Artist-4(Jim Varny Doll) says, "I guess that Rosales will be scooping up the
spooge
commissions now."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "I...I'm just not ready,...that's all...."
Artist-4(Jim Varny Doll) says, "Name one furry comic artist who wrote good
stories?"
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "I liked John Nunnemacher's Buffalo Wings
stories."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "...I mean, I know I'll be good,...when I'm ready to
show, that is..."
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "Albedo IS a snore... A friend lent me all of
the compilations
and it was certainly a cure for insomnia. And for passion. And for visions of
a bright tomorrow."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) nods at Artist-1. "I agree. Albedo was BORING. The
first few issues
were interesting as a novelty...but the entire thing was just rather
laughable."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "...and then they'll see. Then they'll be praising
me. ME DAMMIT!!"
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "I'M THE ONE THEY SHOULD BE FOLLOWING!!! NOT THE
DOO-DOO HEAD ROSALES!!!"
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "The Robin Hood story was the standard story
but the
characterizations were well-done."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says sweating , "...I just can't get these headaches to
stop..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "...I'll be there though...once "HE'S" out of the
way..."
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "Well, you KNOW what you have to do...."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "Yes, Lexisaurus...you know..."
Artist-4(Jim Varny Doll) says, "The gun lex, get the gun..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "..."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "Furry fandom is an amateur fandom pretending
to be
"pro"...you're better than them..."
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) nods, "And what is one life when your happiness is
at stake?"
Artist-4(Jim Varny Doll) says, "it's all just to easy..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "You know, looking through the comments on Genus
33.... ours
were the only ones that even came close to any actual critique. The only
other comments about its art and writing, in the other posts, were "the BEST
I've ever seen!...WHY?! Why do they love him so...(sobbing)"
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "Artist-3...The "best I've ever seen"
comments ARE what passes as 'critique' in Furry. You KNOW what you must do..."
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "Anything else is hate-mongering, or forged."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "He'll never see it coming....They'll thank
you in the end..."
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) nods, "Ours are unintelligent because they're
naive."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "And properly spelled!"
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "HAH! I like the post that just says "twits" ...
YES,...He's a twit!! HE'S no match for me!!"
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "Yeah, but read his next post, Artist-1."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "Oh, damn it, he's...he's mocking...me"
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) laughs and says, "YES, he's mocking YOU"
Artist-1(lexisaurus) sees that "Keep up the good work and screw them" was the
next post from "Twits" ... "Well... He's still my detractor!...WHY?"
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) grins. "He could STILL be talking about YOU,
y'know.
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "Heh! Indeed, his vaguery is a strength! Nobody
knows whether
to hate him or love him...yeah, that's it...They HATE him..."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "Well, you know what you must do..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) is glad he doesn't read minds.
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) nods at Artist-1. "That's the amusing thing about
all of this....He'll never see it coming..."
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) says, "It'll be a fun little past-time, indeed."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "Furries can't deal with the truth....so they
claim it's all lies."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "It's really sad though!... I mean, you know, things
like the
Genus review; I can laugh about it for a little while,...for a little while...
but when you stop laughing, it's really..."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "It? Genus?"
Artist-1(lexisaurus) screams, "The fact that people LOVE HIM SO!!!"
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "i don't see HOW they can take ANY pride in
a book like that....Now if YOU were running the show...."
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "...things would be different..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "Yeah, the review was stupid, but it was honest."
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "I'm not saying it was wrong. But what kind of
reaction did
you expect with HIM in the way..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "Yeah...."
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "...you KNOW what you have to do..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) weeps, "...the gun..."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "You see....we simply raised logical
questions....like any good friends would have done."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "...yes...the gun..."
Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "I dunno if I should be happy or sad that Rosales
was gone..."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) says, "he's fun..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "...the gun..."
Artist-1(lexisaurus) gets up and removes the pistol from a drawer, then
retreives his car keys
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) snickers
Artist-1(lexisaurus) says, "I'll be back..."
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) has been pissed off for a while...and only got
Genus to read JoRo's story. "Now I won't be buying it no more. (snicker)"
Artist-3(Left Hand Puppet) nods(sort of...).
Artist-2(Right Hand puppet) sighs. "I'll miss him...."
And the conversation moved on...
=== end of log ===
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Shon Howell
"When you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything..."
lexis...@my-dejanews.com
> In <19990217122033...@ng01.aol.com>, shon...@aol.com (Shonmania)
> Shon Howell posted in his :
>
> Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "Rosales must die..."
>
Knowing how furries are prone to blow -ANY- sort of comment out of
proportion, and repeat information incorrectly, let us point out now that at
NO TIME was or has Rosales EVER been threatened with physical harm and most
certainly not murder.
While his spoof of our conversation was rather bland, to Howell's credit, we
must say that at least while Furrlough/Genus were being published by
Antarctic Press (when Howell was one of the furry editors) the books were
much more consistent and enjoyable to read.
Florian
>
<snip>
Your first post left doubt regarding if it were real. This post removes
it.
If you expect me to believe it, I require the names of the people, the
muck, and you. No real critic would be afraid of disclosing that.
Until then, I see no point responding to points in the so called log
file.
There is a time for posting anonymous, but repeated trollings is not one
of them.
Brian O'connell
<hilarious reply snipped>
ROTFLMAO!!!
We want Mr Hat back.
Yeah, Mr Twig sucks!
Brian O'connell
lexis...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7af1ip$e4m$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>> In <19990217122033...@ng01.aol.com>, shon...@aol.com
(Shonmania)
>
>> Shon Howell posted in his :
>> Writer-1(Fox Plushie) says, "Rosales must die..."
>Knowing how furries are prone to blow -ANY- sort of comment out of
>proportion, and repeat information incorrectly, let us point out now that
at
>NO TIME was or has Rosales EVER been threatened with physical harm and most
>certainly not murder.
>
xe...@hotmail.com
While does it seem those who I assume are older than myself, I'm only 22, seem
more childish than real children?
I'll give you one reason why I wouldn't support you folks and why I believe
you've gotten negative replies.
To start with, your so called private "Artists discussion" isn't very private
when you all allow it to be posted on a public domain. While in general I
have no problem with people expressing how they feel about a publication or
the work of the artists/writers that particpate within it. I draw the line
when criticism turns to slander and character assasination. When a person
can't separate an artist's work from the artist on a personal level then the
comments you make are not a true critique and can only result in negative
replies on yourselves.
The personal nature of the attack on Joe Rosales, Elin Whinkler, and all of
the other artist of the publication in question goes far beyound the behavior
that an adult should display and I assume you all are well over 21 in order
to have seen the book in question to make comments on it. Also, assuming you
all are rational individuals (and yes I do know what happens when you assume,
but I'm giving you all the benefit of the doubt) how could you seriously
expect the comments you made to be taken constructively, seriously, and
without malice when you go beyound attacking the work and attack the
creators. I also assume that none of you artist have had any true
instruction in art beyound high school otherwise you'd understand how true
critiques are to be given, both with negative/postive criticism with insights
on how the artists or writer can improve there work, while also explaining
what aesthetic (yes a big word, look it up or go read Aesthetics by Sheppard,
or Intro to Problems of Aesthetics by Beardsley if you don't know what it
means) qualities of the work made it either enjoyable or displeasing. That's
how a true critique is given and how you can be taken seriously. Even saying
"this is the greatest thing ever" is just a empty comment and not a true
critique.
To the response of Ion Otter asking to see your art, well that is a valid
request and question. If you are going to allow your conversation be posted
on a public domain and call yourselves artist, while degrading other artists
and writers then it is justified of Ion and others to ask to see your work.
To put it crudely, "Be ready to put up or shut up." It's easy for a out of
shape guy to set in front of his tv and shout at a quartback about not being
able to complete a pass and say he sucks, than it is to acturally go out
replace the quarterback and do better than him. There is a reason while he's
watching the game rather than playing it. It's easy to be a backseat drive
and not be willing to prove that you can do better. Is Joe "Michelangelo"?
No. Is he even the "best" furry artist? I'd argue that there are those
who's skills surpass his. I'd even be willing to agree with you that through
out their runs, Furrlough and Genus have had some bad artwork in them and
poorly written or uninteresting stories. And I'd agree to a point that
Albedo is confussing and sometimes inconsistant for a new reader to follow
and that the story has slowed down a lot over the years. But the question
is, if I and you feel that way can we do better.
If you all are artists and writers why don't you do something to be a guiding
light to how anthropomorphic comics, art, and writing should be like? That's
not much to ask cause if you aren't willing to lead then you're no better
than a person that complains about the government or education in his country
but doesn't vote or go out and make a difference in a child's education. You
are reduced to nothing but a wind blowing strong but making no impact on
anything or anyone.
You also can't say you have no interest in the "furry fandom" cause if this
WERE the fact why would you be posting on a furry based newsgroup, carrying a
conversation on what appears to be a furry related muck, and continued to by
material with furry content in it if "Most of furrydom is marked by lack of
talent", which by definition includes yourselves. After all one of you,
Artists 2 I believe, wishes the book Critters to come back. Quote "I miss
'Critters'." The statement of a fan, one who has an interest in something, of
a 'furry' title. That makes you a fan of something within the "furry
fandom". And personally, while I was rather young when the book was
originally out, but have collected a few, would argue that the quality of the
art and stories are just the same as Furrlough and WildSide and I'd argue
that the quality of the artist today were much better than a lot of the stuff
that showed up in Critter's pages. But that's just the thing about
anthologies. They give many different artists and writters a chance to be
published and share their visions with others and they all have different
skill levels at which they do so. So basically if you want these
publications to improve as you see they should, then stop being a spectator
and become active. But that would call for you "artists" and "writers" to
acturally peel yourselves away from your computers long enough to produce
some real work instead of talking about it.
Finally I find it said that you'd have to go to such extremes to get the
"goat" of others in the first place. "Artist-1 says, "Writer-1, I know the
review was scathing, but when someone says a story is badly written, getting
a reaction of "You asshole, I know who you are....)is pretty disappointing."
If that were truly the case then I'd agree. But you went beyond making a
comment on the WORK and made personaly insults to the Creators. So you got a
response equal to the statements you all made. And when the comments that
said that it was brave of all of you to use aliases rather than your real
names and commented on your spelling skills in the post and your collective
response was "'That's why it's a PRIVATE MUCK, you idiots!'" you seem to
forget that going public openned you to the same treatment you gave the
artists, writers, and publisher. If you all really had any real testicular
fortitude and then you would have used your real names. This would have
shown that you truly did stand by the comments you made and didn't care what
others thought about it. I'd have used my RL name, but why bother when I
know you all are to penially challenged to do the same.
"'Artist-1 says, "I'd just like to see some funny adult stories done in Genus
and some actual good stories done in Furrlough. I don't want to see a bunch
of spurting.'" All I have to say that if the collective of three artist and
one writer can't come together and do a story that is artistly and written
better than the things you are so strongly "spurting" about then your skills
as artist and writers must truly be lacking. When you're ready to "put up or
shut up" I'm ready to do the same. I'm an artist also that was unhappy with
the work I was seeing, not finding the right combination of things in comics
that I liked, so I went and made my own. If you want to compair notes by all
means let's go. I feel that I have more artistic talent than the three of you
put together and have the printed material and webpage to prove it, then
again I think that of everyone cause I have confidence in my talent and
aren't afraid to put my words where my pencil is and am prepared to take what
will come, without going into some pathetic depressed state cause someone
doesn't like my work. Can you say the same. Cause so far you all have just
been nothing but annonymous words on a computer screen.
End of tutiorial
Xenif
Shonmania
>Knowing how furries are prone to blow -ANY- sort of comment out of
>proportion, and repeat information incorrectly, let us point out now that at
>NO TIME was or has Rosales EVER been threatened with physical harm and most
>certainly not murder.
>
>must say that at least while Furrlough/Genus were being published by
>Antarctic Press (when Howell was one of the furry editors) the books were
>much more consistent and enjoyable to read.
Don't try to suck-up now Lex, we're WAY past that point... The point of my
little parody was merely to highlight your rather creepy and somewhat
pathological stalking of Rosales. You (and let's be honest, it is only YOU)
can't seem to deal with Joe getting any sort of praise; this just seems to set
your teeth on edge. If you were so fly, you'd be beyond these petty snipes &
just ignore him. You also demonstrate a staggering lack of understanding of how
the comics business(YES, BUSINESS) works. If you and your imaginary pals don't
have any actual professional publishing credits to your name, you're not
Artists & Writers; you're FANS. PERIOD!
If you stolled up to the Fantagraphics or Dark Horse tables at San Diego
Comicon and announced that you were "working" on a few ideas, they'd just stare
at you. Your conception of what the Comics feild "should" be like means
nothing; you have to deal with it as IS. As for showing off your fine
works...we hear this shit all the time. If your not willing to jump into the
chilly waters of the art field now, you never will. I deal with DOZENS of your
type every year; lots of big talk & psychobabble, but never anything to show
for it. The people who dare are the people who win...
Thus endith the lesson...
Cerulean
>If you and your imaginary pals don't
>have any actual professional publishing credits to your name, you're not
>Artists & Writers; you're FANS. PERIOD!
This is inaccurate on both counts:
Firstly, one does not have to be a professional to be an artist or
writer.
Secondly, to be a fan of something necessitates _liking_ it at least
to some degree, and Lex doesn't seem to qualify in that regard. :=}
Donald E. Sanders
kevin...@worldnet.att.net says...
> Quoth shon...@aol.com (Shonmania):
>
> >If you and your imaginary pals don't
> >have any actual professional publishing credits to your name, you're not
> >Artists & Writers; you're FANS. PERIOD!
>
> This is inaccurate on both counts:
> Firstly, one does not have to be a professional to be an artist or
> writer.
Granted, that point is true. However it somehow does not apply when
dealing with writers and artists who believe they are professionals and
using that mentality, insulate themselves from the rest (amateurs). So
many times, I have gotten the attitude from a few fandom artists that,
"If you ain't been published, you are nothing!" Sadly, this seems to
cross over to relations between the so-called professionals, and the
Fan/Artist. (Keep in mind, these are my own opinions, not usually
expressed by the fandom, so don't get upset)
> Secondly, to be a fan of something necessitates _liking_ it at least
> to some degree, and Lex doesn't seem to qualify in that regard. :=}
Sounds like a bad case of "Pigma pen envy" to me. :)>
--
Don Sanders
Dsan Tsan on #furry of Yiffnet
RoadKill Fur (Sun baked sorta but not burned!)
Artist at Roll Yer Own Graphics
http://www.dreamscape.com/dsand101/dsan.htm
(my furry page) Email dsan...@future.dreamscape.com
Shonmania
>Firstly, one does not have to be a professional to be an artist or>
>writer.
>to some degree, and Lex doesn't seem to qualify in that regard. :=}
Wrong. In the context to which I was addressing (i.e. Professional Comics) this
is how it shakes out. There are producers and there are consumers. I've always
been of a mind that Fandom functions as either a place to polish up your skills
in preparation for entering the professional feild, or if that's not your thing
fandom is a place to kick back & relax with friends of commen interest.
Contrary to "Lexisaurus" statements, there's nothing shameful about being a
fan. At the turn of the century, we had the notion of "Talented Ameture"; a
indevidual who was good at something, but not as an occupation. Approaching a
professional comics company with a pile of fanzines will probably not amount to
much, however a good portfolio of your talents will.
Mulder
>
> In article <36cb3327...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
> kevin...@worldnet.att.net says...
> > Quoth shon...@aol.com (Shonmania):
> >
> > >If you and your imaginary pals don't
> > >have any actual professional publishing credits to your name, you're not
> > >Artists & Writers; you're FANS. PERIOD!
> >
> > Firstly, one does not have to be a professional to be an artist or
> > writer.
>
> dealing with writers and artists who believe they are professionals and
> using that mentality, insulate themselves from the rest (amateurs). So
> many times, I have gotten the attitude from a few fandom artists that,
> "If you ain't been published, you are nothing!" Sadly, this seems to
> cross over to relations between the so-called professionals, and the
> Fan/Artist. (Keep in mind, these are my own opinions, not usually
> expressed by the fandom, so don't get upset)
I doubt anyone will open their eyes enough for what I'm saying to lend
credibility, but I was one of the artists in that discussion. The one
dubbed as Artist-3. If you want a name, I was formerly Weaver on
FurryMUCK before an attempt to silence the truth changed that. I'm not
surprised that most of those involved in this discussion chose to use
aliases in the log, as the names used on the muck where this took place-
dubbed private as it is in the process of being created- are similar to
those used on other mucks and the comments might incur a host of page
#mail harassment they did not wish to deal with. As for professional
furry credits, I was published in several fanzines, have done
commissions, and eventually did work Mu publications, before realizing
that this was not a genre I wanted my work to be associated with.
Outside of furry, I have designed slogans and associated banners for
schools, sold paintings, and designed mascots and used them to
illustrate manuals for a ship-building company. And illustration isn't
even my career.
Sun-stone
On Radio Comix, Elin, and Joe: Regardless of what you think of their
comix and stories (I think they are great myself), both Elin and Joe are
true *professionals* who are extremely competent at what they do and
very dedicated to it. It has been remarked that the quality of Radio's
titles rival that of a much larger and more-established company. I think
that this is great praise for a publisher that is only two years old.
Radio is one of the most prolific and well-regarded publishers of anthro
titles, and much of the growth of the medium and many of the new fans
can be attributed to it. Imagine what this genre would be like without
Radio? As for Joe, in my dealings with him he has been polite and
courteous. He has shown himself to be intelligent and knowledgeable
about not just comics but fine art as well (a nice surprise!) His
layouts, inking, and story structure rank above that of most anthro
artists -- I'd place him in the top rank of the genre along with Fred
Perry, Terrie Smith, Michele Light, Stan Sakai, and about a dozen
others. We need more people like him!
On Vendettas: Forged, Embellished, Rehearsed, Real or otherwise -- the
sense of jealousy, pettiness, and personal politics pervades this entire
MUCK log. Why anyone would want to spend that much time on books,
issues, and people they don't care for is beyond me. Do something you
like. Remember ... fun, dammit, fun! ^_^ Go take a walk in the winter
sun ... you'll feel better. And relax, spring will soon be here (I hope
it's not late.)
On Sticky Frontispieces: How can I put this delicately? Yes, some adult
art might be a bit .... visceral, but then you have to be prepared for
that. It is an adult title. Some folx are turned off by it; some are
turned on by it; some think it's part of life but they have feelings
about what's appropriate and not. My strongest suggestion would be that
if you don't want to see explicit pictures of intermammary intercourse
a.k.a. Genoa style (notice I actually used the proper terms -- just
keeping it PG-rated here ::grins::) then you prolly shouldn't be reading
_Genus_. That's coz you could expect to see illos of that or similarly
raunchy stuff here and there. It's rather stupid to go out of one's way
to be offended on purpose -- "oh, look, ... gasp ... this adult comic
shows characters having sex and enjoying it. The horror!" I haven't
seen the issue (It's kinda tough to get adult comics up in Canada.), but
that illo, and Joe's story don't appear to be out of line for the series
and intended audience. Those activities are pretty non-controversial and
RL couples do 'em (well ... maybe not the body-painting. ^_^) I think
Radio does a pretty good job of walking the line between raunchiness and
subtlety. Too much sex or too little and _Genus_'s sales would prolly
suffer. Also, don't forget, as I mentioned in another post ... it's the
only adult anthro title out there. Plenty of other choices if you'd
prefer something all-ages like.
Um ... that's all for now. I is tired.
Cheers;
J. J.
Jim Doolittle
<umno...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote:
>
> Um ... that's all for now. I is tired.
>
Wow. Someone with rational thoughts. Too bad a.f.f. doesn't have more of that.
-Jim
--------------------------------------------------------
| Jim Doolittle Fuzzy Logic E-Zine |
| dool...@uiuc.edu http://fuzzylogic.betterbox.net |
--------------------------------------------------------
Shonmania
>credibility, but I was one of the artists in that discussion. The one
>dubbed as Artist-3. If you want a name, I was formerly Weaver on
>FurryMUCK before an attempt to silence the truth changed that. I'm not
Given how little faith we all seem to have placed in the previous post
connected to "Lexisaurus", why would we have any faith in the credibility of
this one..."Mulder".
swilk...@mail.techplus.com
"Brian O'connell" <furball...@uswest.net> wrote:
> Shonmania wrote in message <19990217122033...@ng01.aol.com>...
> <hilarious reply snipped>
> ROTFLMAO!!!
> We want Mr Hat back.
> Yeah, Mr Twig sucks!
Or give us Mr. Socko. :)
"Have a nice day!!"
tamar_...@my-dejanews.com
Mulder <truthis...@downfall.com> wrote:
> Donald E. Sanders wrote:
> >
> > In article <36cb3327...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
> > kevin...@worldnet.att.net says...
> > > Quoth shon...@aol.com (Shonmania):
> > >
> > > >If you and your imaginary pals don't
> > > >have any actual professional publishing credits to your name, you're not
> > > >Artists & Writers; you're FANS. PERIOD!
> > >
> > > This is inaccurate on both counts:
> > > Firstly, one does not have to be a professional to be an artist or
> > > writer.
> >
> > Granted, that point is true. However it somehow does not apply when
> > dealing with writers and artists who believe they are professionals and
> > using that mentality, insulate themselves from the rest (amateurs). So
> > many times, I have gotten the attitude from a few fandom artists that,
> > "If you ain't been published, you are nothing!" Sadly, this seems to
> > cross over to relations between the so-called professionals, and the
> > Fan/Artist. (Keep in mind, these are my own opinions, not usually
> > expressed by the fandom, so don't get upset)
>
> credibility, but I was one of the artists in that discussion. The one
> dubbed as Artist-3. If you want a name, I was formerly Weaver on
> FurryMUCK before an attempt to silence the truth changed that. I'm not
> aliases in the log, as the names used on the muck where this took place-
> dubbed private as it is in the process of being created- are similar to
> those used on other mucks and the comments might incur a host of page
> #mail harassment they did not wish to deal with. As for professional
> furry credits, I was published in several fanzines, have done
> commissions, and eventually did work Mu publications, before realizing
> that this was not a genre I wanted my work to be associated with.
> Outside of furry, I have designed slogans and associated banners for
> schools, sold paintings, and designed mascots and used them to
> illustrate manuals for a ship-building company. And illustration isn't
> even my career.
>
So why didn't you suggest to the guys that using personal attacks towards
someone just because you don't like their work is wrong? I can understand if
you don't like a publication or not all that thrilled with an artists or
writers story, but it does not excuse you from attacking someone, whom I'm
sure have or all of those involved in the discussing, don't even know
personally to make valid comments on their character as human beings. That's
right, there are people with feelings behind those pictures and words you
read. Be mature for crying out loud. YOUR ADULTS!
Ebony Leopard
"It's true. The children shall lead, cause the adults are turning into the
children."
Daphne Lage
<7ag5h4$eae$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <7af08a$k4a$1...@crucigera.fysh.org>,
> "Brian O'connell" <furball...@uswest.net> wrote:
>> Shonmania wrote in message
<19990217122033...@ng01.aol.com>...
>> <hilarious reply snipped>
>> ROTFLMAO!!!
>> We want Mr Hat back.
>> Yeah, Mr Twig sucks!
>
> Or give us Mr. Socko. :)
> "Have a nice day!!"
Mr. Socko - He's not just a sock... he's an ADVENTURE! ;)
--Daphne Lage (watching too much WWF lately)
****************************************************************
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http://www.advanix.net/~egoraven/
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"The only thing you can change is yourself,
but sometimes that changes everything." - Anonymous
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"The side I'm always on... mine." - Madonna in "Dick Tracy"
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Joe Rosales
backed up by more unaccountable bile. How could anyone possibly argue
with rock-solid facts like that? If made-up internet names posted it to
a newsgroup, it *must* be true!
Well, you've all taught me a sharp lesson. Now I *must* take your
criticism seriously. Let's see: What can I learn from your posts?
I suck... I suck... You don't like my work... I'm an egomaniac... I
suck...
That's strange. There doesn't seem to be any actual criticism of my
work in either of these posts. There's no clinical analysis of my
technique, my layouts, my pencils, my inking; no comparison of my work
to other artists -- indeed, there's no comparison of this particular
story to earlier work of mine, which would be the most obvious and
productive method of analysis. There's no "what-if" restructuring of
the story, as to how it _should_ have been done in order to improve its
impact and streamline its flow. There's no comparison within the story
of better pages and panels to worse pages and panels.
In fact, as another poster pointed out, there's absolutely no actual
criticism of my work anywhere in these posts.
I've receieved every bit of real, professional criticism I could get --
from fine artists, from professional writers, from graphic designers,
and from comics pros. I've gone through the actual wringer you guys are
supposedly trying to put me through, and I've never had such a slipshod
job done of it as you bumbling amatuers have done. I've had my work
vivisected by Eisner winners and specialists in Renaissance anatomy who
were able to completely blow apart my work and let me know *exactly*
what my true failings were, and how far I really had to go to even be
considered competent. And I'm supposed to take you seriously because
you say "bleah" and "crapola" and claim that you're "educated"? I can't
imagine why I laugh at you.
But, since I strive at any chance for improvement, I ask you: Please,
please, educate me. Call together your mighty brain trust, P- I mean,
lexi, and give me a list of artists currently working that I should be
following and talking to. Not just in this genre, of course -- I want
people who are just plain better than me, who are alive and working and
whose instruction I can use to lift my work into a realm you might find
acceptable. Since nowhere in these so-called discussions is there any
mention of a book currently coming out that you like, I am most curious
as to what might be on this list of brilliant comics and novels that I
am not and should be reading.
Better yet, let's have a list for Elin of who you want to see in these
books, so you don't have to suffer through more of the terrible,
terrible work that so disgusts you. Let's have, say, ten current
artists and writers whose work you would look forward to seeing in
Genus. Such a list would categorically disprove my statement that you
hate everything, and offer valuable instruction to Elin as to how to
make her book more appealing which you so obviously feel she needs.
This is your opportunity to direct our actions! I eagerly await your
commands. Tell us in specific, certain terms what we should be doing.
In particular I would like to be directed toward the work of the artists
and writers in your posts, as they obviously have a much better grasp of
technique and development than I do, and I would almost certainly
benefit from exposure to their material. Put them in personal contact
with me, so that I can discuss the specific shortcomings of my work and
the methods I use to create it. And by sharing this information with
the group here, you can also let them in on material more worthy of
their praise and hard-earned dollars -- obviously something that should
and must be done. Since my work cannot possibly be the best available,
shouldn't they be directed toward those whose work is?
After all, improvement of the genre and enlightenment of the public must
be your goals in posting these disscussions to this newsgroup. You
can't possibly be doing it simply to tear down others. You are all far
too intelligent and eloquent for such a petty goal, aren't you?
Enlighten away. We're all ears!
-- Joe
Visit my website full of stuff at http://www.FurNation.com/Animus. Hey,
it's on the internet so at least it's free -- crude hackwork that it is.
Doodles
<joea...@NOSPAMstic.net> wrote:
>Enlighten away. We're all ears!
[Sudden image of Sifl & Olly wearing bunny ears.]
Gah. I scared myself.
Unca Spooge, with 12 sugars in the coffee...
Mulder
>
> > I doubt anyone will open their eyes enough for what I'm saying to lend
> >credibility, but I was one of the artists in that discussion. The one
> >dubbed as Artist-3. If you want a name, I was formerly Weaver on
> >FurryMUCK before an attempt to silence the truth changed that. I'm not
>
> Given how little faith we all seem to have placed in the previous post
> connected to "Lexisaurus", why would we have any faith in the credibility of
> this one..."Mulder".
>
> Shon Howell
>
> "When you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything..."
I didn't expect you would, hence that first sentence. We are, after
all, talking about a group of people who, aside from posessing the
amazing power of self-delusion, think that, to-date, anyone other than
me was PigCop.
Dr. Cat
time as posting a big log (whether real or fabricated) ragging on Joe
Rosales. This disclaimer HAS been moved to the top of the post so as to
offer sensible people the opportunity to skip past the whole thing and
move on to something more worthwhile to do with the next few minutes of
their life. Hooway!)
Mulder (truthis...@downfall.com) wrote:
: I'm not surprised that most of those involved in this discussion chose
: to use aliases in the log, as the names used on the muck where this
: took place- dubbed private as it is in the process of being created-
: are similar to those used on other mucks and the comments might incur a
: host of page #mail harassment they did not wish to deal with.
Ya know, I'm a professional in a purrticular field myself. Not art, as
it happens, but computer game development. Like you, I imagine, I feel
that there's work out there that's better than mine, work that's worse
than mine, and some work in my field that really, really stinks.
I must say, though, that I don't feel any need to go around saying in
public that some of the work being done isn't to my tastes, or stinks to
high heaven, or whatever. I would rather be a person who is so focused
on A) creating the best work I can, and B) being happy enjoying my social
life and hobbies in my free time, that I don't have the time and energy
left for C) sitting around with cronies endlessly ragging on stuff that
we don't like rather than putting that same time and energy towards A
and/or B instead.
If I ragged on some crappy work in public, people would think less of me,
as someone with the poor judgement, or emotional problems, or jealousy
and bitterness to drive me to waste my own time performing activity C
when there is more than enough to do in activities A and B to fill an
entire lifetime. If I did so anonymously, I would still BE such a
person, I just would have dodged the normal consequences of people
finding out that I am so.
Purrsonally, I don't want to avoid consequences like flames, people
avoiding my work just because of my bad reputation, etc. by being a rude,
mean, spiteful person but keeping it a secret. I would rather avoid it
by NOT being a rude, mean spiteful person. This has the added advantage
of allowing me to express my opinions rather freely. :X)
And I don't have any emotional need for furry fandom to live up to
professional level standards of quality in art, writing, etc. It's
a hobby with a bunch of amateurs and "semi-pros" presenting stuff for
whatever fellow fans like it enough to want to read it and look at it.
I expect lower quality but sometimes entertaining material from the
fandom, because I am a fan myself. I expect high quality, professional
material from Jim Henson productions, Disney, etc. If people don't care
for the stuff the fandom produces, the sensible thing is to say "Oh, well
I won't spend my time looking at it then", just as you might avoid buying
golf clubs if you don't happen to like golf. No sense ragging on their
mere existence because golf clubs fail so miserably to satisfy your
desires as a model airplane enthusiast.
If you've noticed that even the best of the fandom's artists don't live
up to the standards of Rodin, DaVinci, Chuck Jones, or Michael Whelan,
I have to say my response is "Well DUHHH!" It's a fandom, it produces
fandom levels of quality, and if you want to sit around and rag on it for
not being something different than it is, you might either A) Have Too
Much Free Time, or B) Need To Get A Life, or C) Want to learn that
professional quality art, stories, and animation are available for
purchase but that you should get that stuff from Big Media Companies and
not from fandoms and low-circulation black and white comics.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.bga.com/furcadia
Furcadia - a new graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer 1: Much material produced by Big Media Companies is lousy from
an artistic standpoint, but at least SOME of it is high quality
professional work. You have to have the modicum of taste necessary to
pick out the stuff you like from the stuff you don't. Try a videotape of
the movie Labyrinth, featuring visual design work by the remarkable Brian
Froud, for instance. (Trivia note: The baby in Labryinth is Brian
Froud's son. And during the making of the movie, he once wetted David
Bowie. True fact.) And not all great work is available solely from Big
Media Companies either, again you can look around and use your own
judgement. Occasionally a Picasso turns up in someone's garage sale or
something.)
(Disclaimer 2: For some people, activity C (ragging on stuff with your
cronies) can actually qualify as a form of Officially Approved activity
B, if you consider ragging on stuff with your cronies to be a "hobby" and
if you consistently enjoy it. If you fall in to this category, though,
remember that the immortal Mr. T has this to say about you - "I pity the
fool who don't have nothin' better to do." He also insisted I deliver
the following additional message, which I am doing because he is large
and mean and scary looking. "I also pity the fool that don't buy my
wife's fish sticks! Buy some Mrs. T's Fish Sticks every day!")
(Disclaimer 3: While Genus is technically a professional publication, I
think it's unrealistic to expect the same levels of quality from
low-circulation commercial media as from higher circulation media, which
is more profitable and thus can afford to hire the most successful (and
most expensive) artists and writers and what-not. In the same way we
don't expect as much from cheap B movies as we do from big expensive
movies with top directors and stars and all that. (Again, there are
exceptions, but of course they don't disprove the overall trend, just
illustrate that it is a tendency and not a 100% ironclad rule. Note for
instance Buckaroo Banzai and The Wizard of Speed and Time as very
entertaining low-budget fare, and "almost anything made lately by Kevin
Costner" as highly expensive flops.) Anyway black and white comics have
a level of circulation and profitability that is a lot closer to fandom
publications like fanzines than it is to big media stuff like Newsweek or
Star Wars. So while you might expect their quality to be a bit above that
of the average fanzine, you shouldn't expect it to be TOO much higher.
(Well, unless you really like experiencing dissapointment, in which case
you should!))
(Disclaimer 4: Actually I think Kevin Costner isn't a good example,
because I really *liked* his big budget flops, and I think they just
weren't suited to the tastes of a high enough percentage of people.
Try Ishtar instead. Go rent that and sit through it if you can. :X)
(Disclaimer 5: Oh and some black and white comics are great, too.
Consider, for instance, Usagi Yojimbo, Xanadu, Fusion, or Castle
Waiting. I'm just saying you can't count on that, and it's silly
to rag on other people for not being as good as those folks. It
doesn't improve their work any, and it does make you look bad, and
just generally doesn't accomplish anything.)
(Disclaimer 6: This whole post is about as big a waste of time as posting
a big log (whether real or fabricated) ragging on Joe Rosales. This
disclaimer should have been moved to the top of the post so as to offer
sensible people the opportunity to skip past the whole thing and move on
to something more worthwhile to do with the next few minutes of their
life. Sowwy!)
Ucalegon
>On Sticky Frontispieces: How can I put this delicately? Yes, some adult
>art might be a bit .... visceral, but then you have to be prepared for
>that. It is an adult title.
It's stupid to take offense publicly (as in some appalling posts in
this mess) but one can express preferences. I would like to see
less of this and more material like the rest of #33 (Morrissey,
Kidd, Wilcken, Naylor, Rosales, Arnörsson, Aronen, etc.), and
I say so now and then in hopes of tilting the balance a bit.
> Also, don't forget, as I mentioned in another post ... it's the
>only adult anthro title out there.
Now that *Wild Kingdom* is gone it may be the only nonfan
adult anthro antho, but don't forget the funny and stylish *Filthy
Animals*, also from Radio (when's #4 coming out?).
Acag, Treesong (ucal...@aol.com)
Scullyoo1
>>I doubt anyone will open their eyes enough for what I'm saying to lend
>>credibility, but I was one of the artists in that discussion. The one
>>dubbed as Artist-3. If you want a name, I was formerly Weaver on
>>FurryMUCK before an attempt to silence the truth changed that.
Now wait a minute!!
You can't be Artist-3...I'M the REAL Artist-3!!
Perhaps you remember me - I used to be called UglyBeaver on FurryMukk, before
my attempt to spread innuendo and hatred was silenced. I have been published
in countless fanzines, including "Fur-Fur" ("The zine so nice they named it
twice"), "StarJerks", and "Phat Wars". Even though I am posting anonymously,
you can take my word for it, BECAUSE I SAID SO! And if you don't believe me, I
can create several other screen names to vouch for my authenticity. I can even
show you my official, neato-keen "Joe Rosales Hater's Club" membership card -
it's even stained with bile and vitroil.
Just wait until my very close personal friends on my own private Muck hear
about all this! Ooh! Ooh! They'll be soooo mad! Oooh!
Irrationally yours,
- Lexi.....er, I mean, Artist-3...yeah...
PS Hey, this is kinda fun.
Wanderer
>In article <36cae86e$0$2...@nntp1.ba.best.com>,
(snip)
>
>It's not "crying wolf" when there's really a wolf there, no offense
>intended to the fine lupine-americans in our midst.
>
None taken, Peter. Thank you.:)
Yours with a wolfish grin,
The smiling,
Wanderer**wand...@applink.net
Where am I going?I don't quite know.
What does it matter where people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow.
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I*don't know!
StukaFox
: So why didn't you suggest to the guys that using personal attacks towards
: someone just because you don't like their work is wrong?
As is so well demonstrated by the endless attacks on Eric Blumrich.
StukaFox
--
GREAT EMPTY THREATS OF THE USENET #109:
"When I'm finished in nanau, I'm gonna pay the newsgroups you frequent
a visit. You aren't going to like it."
Tim "Wanky the Wanker" Thorn
specia...@hell-flame-wars.org
tamar_...@my-dejanews.com
really interesting guy, kind of weird, but interesting.
But if I did have a problem with him I'd tell it to him to his face, over the
phone, or e-mailing him (e-mails the best route cause it's cheeper and i'm a
penny pinching college stundent.) I would however NOT bring a disagree ment
we may have to a public domain. For one, it's no bodies business what was
said by me and the person I'm arguing with. Two, there is still some kind of
code of honor, I'd hope, between two combatants. And three, what motive and
point would it be for everyone to see it anyway. In the end you only end up
pissing off more people and end up making yourself look like a jerk no matter
how much an ass the other person may have been and no matter how much in the
right you may have been.
And believe me, I'm going through some things with folks that I'd love to do
nothing but embarassing the hell out of them, but I'm an adult now and can't
keep acting like a kid for ever. Publicly anyway.
Ebony Leopard
Hangdog
> tamar_...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> : So why didn't you suggest to the guys that using personal attacks towards
> : someone just because you don't like their work is wrong?
>
> As is so well demonstrated by the endless attacks on Eric Blumrich.
*Shrug* In that case, neither wrong nor right--simply ineffectual.
--Hangdog
Joe Rosales
I just thought I would say thank you for your sincere compliments. I'm
glad that people like you are out there enjoying my stuff, and are not
being put off by a few malcontents with personal grudges on obscure alt*
newsgroups.
I hope that my work will continue to entertain you in the future! I'll
do my best!
-- Joe
Visit my website full of stuff at http://www.FurNation.com/Animus. Hey,
it's on the internet, so at least it's free!
Richard de Wylfin
(Doodles) wrote:
ROCK! Any other Sifl&Olly fans around here?
Pelzig
Considering I have just about every Prescious Roy MP3 and know most of his
dialog, you can say I do. :)
"This is Prescious Roy and I ain't afraid of no hookers!"
*No, no, Prescious, we're talking about ScareHookers....*
"Buy my hookers!"
*Prescious, they're ScareHookers*
"I'm confused! You guys are SUCKERS!"
TCASF,
Pelzig
lonely...@newwave.net
> > >
> > > Gah. I scared myself.
> > >
> > > Unca Spooge, with 12 sugars in the coffee...
> >
> > ROCK! Any other Sifl&Olly fans around here?
Hey, Sifl and Ollie fan rite here. You have to admire anyone that can make a
fresh and funky show like that with-- what? $50 bucks operating capital?
there's a lesson there... I mean, jeez--most networks spend milliions on
shows that truly stink. these people rifle through their sock drawers and
come up with a cult classic.... "sifl...and ...oll--eeee Sifl and oll--eee
SHOOOWWWWW !" ROCK! Ben Bruin
Akai
>
> In article <36ce1b8a...@206.165.3.70>, doo...@cheezies.primenet.com
> (Doodles) wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:15:45 -0600, Joe Rosales
> > <joea...@NOSPAMstic.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Enlighten away. We're all ears!
> >
> > [Sudden image of Sifl & Olly wearing bunny ears.]
> >
> >
> > Unca Spooge, with 12 sugars in the coffee...
>
> ROCK! Any other Sifl&Olly fans around here?
Oh yeah! I love that show! Disappointed that it is no longer shown late
at night and without the music videos, though. And I do believe in the
power of Miracle Dirt.
--
-Akai
"Don't you even involve Bjork in this!!"
Forrest
Joe Rosales <joea...@NOSPAMstic.net> wrote in message
news:36CBB0...@NOSPAMstic.net...
>Well, gosh -- the vitriolic remarks of anonymous minions have been
>backed up by more unaccountable bile.
Uh oh, Joe's been playing his Best of Spiro tapes again! ;)
>That's strange. There doesn't seem to be any actual criticism of my
>work in either of these posts.
<rummages around in his box of brutal criticism>
You tend to draw grins the same way. And they extend too far up the cheek.
How's that?
What?
If anybody wants you you'll be up on the roof?
AAAAA! WHAT HAVE I DONE??
And he wasn't even asking me!