FUR: Commission Status pages ??
Michael Russell
Howdy
I've noticed a few artists are starting to put up "Commission Status"
pages as a way to inform their customers about their commissions.
Here are the problems, from a customer satisfaction analysis view:
(1) Privacy. Such a page violates the customer's privacy. Some customers
would probably prefer that they are not known to be commissioning artwork
or the nature of the artwork.
(2) Pull rather than push. These pages require the customer to visit the
site on a regular basis to learn status. It has been shown that this
type of "pull" behaviour to a web site does not work. Customers forget
to do these type of repetitive tasks. This is why there is such an
interest in developing "push" technology -- the web site sends periodic
notices to the customer as a reminder to visit the web site.
(3) Impersonal. Customers view such a bulletin board approach as very
impersonal. When customers are spending a large amount of their money
on a personal project, customers expect personal handling. The artist
should send a periodic email to the customers with status information.
(4) Out-of-date. Let's face it, web pages are a hassle to update. It
is very easy for the artist to allow the status web page to quickly
become out-of-date. Also, how often will the status page be updated.
I am wondering, how would artists respond if I were to create a web
page that showed the status of my commission requests.
A page that showed the name of all the artists I have commissioned, the
project, and the status. Would some artists be embarrassed to have
publicized in this fashion the extremely long times it is taking. Or, even
worse, what if I published the contact history?
--
Cheers, Mike 'Flafox' Russell
Career - I/T Architect; IBM Global Services ( msru...@us.ibm.com )
Hobby - Owner; Vicki Fox Productions ( mrus...@ix.netcom.com )
Web - The World of Vicki Fox ( http://www.VickiFox.com )
MouseHouse
> (1) Privacy. Such a page violates the customer's privacy. Some customers
> would probably prefer that they are not known to be commissioning artwork
> or the nature of the artwork.
That's why you keep it as generic as possible. I use initials, and sometimes
codes, such as John Smith being client TZQ, to represent the person and
ambiguous titles, such as "Double" and "Walk" for the pieces. The clients
themselves can identify their pieces by the code I've given them, and track
the status. Several have given overt permission to cite the title and subject
matter, with no problem. If any of my clients have had a concern, they've
never expressed it. Check it out:
http://www.furnation.net/mousehouse/progress.htm
> (2) Pull rather than push. These pages require the customer to visit the
> site on a regular basis to learn status. It has been shown that this
> type of "pull" behaviour to a web site does not work. Customers forget
> to do these type of repetitive tasks. This is why there is such an
> interest in developing "push" technology -- the web site sends periodic
> notices to the customer as a reminder to visit the web site.
Again, never a complaint I've received from anyone. It's entirely too simple
to make a bookmark in your browser and check status whilst routinely surfing.
They can track their work at their convenience without having to download
Email on a daily basis. Plus a centralised location for ALL clients to go can
be updated quickly and easily, as opposed to individual letters to each
person. Streamlining the process is advantageous to both vendor and client.
If I had to take the time to do each of my clients a personal letter, I'd
never get done with things.
> (3) Impersonal. Customers view such a bulletin board approach as very
> impersonal. When customers are spending a large amount of their money
> on a personal project, customers expect personal handling. The artist
> should send a periodic email to the customers with status information.
TOO personal was your first complaint. See above for the advantages of the
progress page.
> (4) Out-of-date. Let's face it, web pages are a hassle to update. It
> is very easy for the artist to allow the status web page to quickly
> become out-of-date. Also, how often will the status page be updated.
A hassle? It's cut 'n paste, then FTP. Takes me less than 90 seconds to do
an update.
Update regularity depends on the dedication of the artist to his or her
client's needs. Mine gets updated every couple of days because I've been on
the other side of the commission fence: not knowing if the piece is happening,
has been finished, or if my money has disappeared in the artist's pockets.
Here's a note: if the progress page hasn't been updated in whatever amount of
time you think is appropriate, be wary.
> I am wondering, how would artists respond if I were to create a web
> page that showed the status of my commission requests.
Actually we'd probably love it. It would give us a good idea of what kinds of
things you spend money on so that if we had prints or originals you might be
interested in, we could let you know right away. "Hey Bob, I noticed that you
have a tendency toward long-legged tigresses. I'm going to have one for sale
at Con X and it's within your price range, so look for it in the art show if
you're going."
> A page that showed the name of all the artists I have commissioned, the
> project, and the status. Would some artists be embarrassed to have
> publicized in this fashion the extremely long times it is taking. Or, even
> worse, what if I published the contact history?
You mean hold accountable the people to whom a person has given, as you wrote
above, "a large amount of their money on a personal project?" Sure: remember
to put a link leading to that artist's progress page so that others can see
that there are twenty people ahead of you who have ALSO paid their hard-earned
money to this person.
Again, I offer my page as a benchmark for others:
http://www.furnation.net/mousehouse/progress.htm
Enjoy!
--
***********
Visit the MouseHouse!
http://www.furnation.com/mousehouse/
Michael Russell
(( Replied to sender and newsgroup ))
Thanks very much for the reply.
Let me point out, I personally don't have any vested interest
one way or another.
Just like my postings about merchandising trends in mass marketing,
I'm just pointing out some things I have recently learned. These
are generic lessons learned in the field of customer satisfaction
and contract fulfillment.
My job as an e-commerce consultant within IBM's Global Services
division and my personal project to merchandise, license, and
sell products featuring my cartoon property are giving me a lot
of opportunity to learn merchandising, marketing, licensing,
contract negotiations, web page design for e-commerce, customer
satisfaction, customer fulfillment, and product delivery. I am
not claiming to be an expert in any of this. Think of me as
an excited student who has learned neat stuff and wants to
share.
I am offering these suggestions for two reasons:
(1) It does sometimes generate thoughtful dialog on the newsgroups.
(2) It may be educational.
We all learn. For example, I like your idea of using a code to
identify the customer.
MouseHouse wrote:
>
(1) Privacy
> That's why you keep it as generic as possible. I use initials, and sometimes
I think this is a good idea.
(2) Pull rather than push.
> Again, never a complaint I've received from anyone.
People don't complain about this. They simply don't visit the site.
> to make a bookmark in your browser and check status whilst routinely surfing.
In theory, yes. I have several folders in my bookmark file,
like Monday, Saturday, etc, which have a copy of a bookmark that
I should check on that day.
But, as often happens, I get busy and forget to check or I forget
to copy the bookmark into this folder, or I get tired of checking
because nothing changes.
> be updated quickly and easily, as opposed to individual letters to each
True. Then again, some silly folks like me create a MS Access
application to automatically generate email. I sometimes send
periodic queries about commission status to artists about once
every six to eight weeks (it used to be four or five weeks).
(3) Impersonal.
> TOO personal was your first complaint. See above for the advantages of the
> progress page.
No. The first complaint was about privacy. Some folks don't
want it publicized they are requesting artwork from an artist
or the nature of the artwork.
I don't have this problem since there is nothing embarassing
in any of my commission requests.
Personal deals with the relationship between the artist and the
customer. Some customers like to talk directly with the artist.
> A hassle? It's cut 'n paste, then FTP. Takes me less than 90 seconds to do
> an update.
True. But for some reason, too many folks find it impossible
to even allocate the two or three minutes to update a web page.
> Here's a note: if the progress page hasn't been updated in whatever amount of
> time you think is appropriate, be wary.
Very true.
> Actually we'd probably love it. It would give us a good idea of what kinds of
> things you spend money on so that if we had prints or originals you might be
> interested in, we could let you know right away.
I may give it a try. Next time I update Vicki's site, I may
put a list of my outstanding commissions. A list of my
completed ones would be very long.
> have a tendency toward long-legged tigresses.
Cartoony vixens in my case. *smile*
> You mean hold accountable the people to whom a person has given, as you wrote
> above, "a large amount of their money on a personal project?"
Unfortunately, the trend I'm seeing is way to often for an artist
to accept a project, even accept a deposit, and then fail to
deliver or even keep the customer informed as to what is
happening. Since in this modern day there is no shame, the
page wouldn't be to hold accountable - it would be to warn others
to avoid this artist.
> to put a link leading to that artist's progress page so that others can see
> that there are twenty people ahead of you who have ALSO paid their hard-earned
> money to this person.
Good idea.
I may want to share ideas with you off-the-newsgroup.
AnyTaur
let a commission languish for over a year before telling me they weren't going
to do it, I've had artists tell me that a piece was done for three months in a
row but never send anything, I've had artists simply pocket the money and
forget about me, and I've had artists tell me "It'll be done this weekend" week
after week after week but never actually send anything.
A status page at least gives to some idea of what's going on.
Daphne Lage
As an artist who is just beginning to set up such a page, I honestly didn't
realize that it might be a problem. I got the idea from looking over other
artists websites and noticing that they had such status lists for commissions.
It seemed like a good idea - have a website that commissioners can visit to
check on their pieces.
Your concern about privacy is well noted though. I set up a section where a
sample of the piece can be seen, but if a commission is requested that may be a
bit "embarrassing" then maybe such an open sample policy isn't such a good idea.
Although, I don't see a problem with just listing a vague description such as
"Wolf and Tigress" or "Family Portrait". Also, listing contact information about
the commissioner is rather unnecessary which is why I don't do that either. And
is having a name, even with just a first initial that invasive? Is there a
difference to have your name listed on a commission status page or listed as a
copyright byline (if the characters aren't generic) if I'm selling prints of the
piece?
And concerning your "alternate" status chart listing how long commissions are
taking - honestly, I can't really complain about such a chart either. I think it
would certainly be enough of a "push" to get commissions done in a timely matter
to avoid getting (or remaining) on such a list. If I knew such a status list
existed and that artists were routinely getting monitored, I'd certainly go out
of my way to try to get rid of a couple of bad habits that I know is keeping me
from delivering pieces when I know I *should* be delivering them.
Yeah, I can be a really naughty artist sometimes. >_<
I really would like to know what everyone thinks about this because if its that
much of a problem, then I'll take mine down or set it up so that only
commissioners can access it.
--Daphne Lage
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Daphne Lage
M.Petrie
AnyTaur wrote in message <20000318142042...@ng-dc1.aol.com>...
I've had artists tell me "It'll be done this weekend" week
>after week after week but never actually send anything.
I know I fall into this catagory unfortunately and usually when I say it I
mean it until the inevitable mistake happens while working on a piece and it
looks wrong and I trash it and have to start all over again. Sometimes when
a artist says this sort of thing but doesn't deliver on date it's not due to
laziness or not working but mistakes. I make a bunch of them and I'd rather
not send someone less than the best I can do. This is the major reason I
don't want payment upfront and really prefer people send a check that I can
hold instead of cash.
*sighs* I think when my next batch is done and in the mail I'm going to stop
doing them. I'm too slow and will redo a pic a half dozen times until I feel
it's good enough to send.
margaret
MouseHouse
> That's why you keep it as generic as possible. I use initials, and sometimesI think this is a good idea.
People don't complain about this. They simply don't visit the site.
But, as often happens, I get busy and forget to check or I forget
to copy the bookmark into this folder, or I get tired of checking
because nothing changes.
No. The first complaint was about privacy. Some folks don't
want it publicized they are requesting artwork from an artist
or the nature of the artwork.
With anonymity comes objectivity. Clients who've asked me to keep it low-key are keen on accepting the impersonal page as long as they get what they want.
I don't have this problem since there is nothing embarassing
in any of my commission requests.
Personal deals with the relationship between the artist and the
customer. Some customers like to talk directly with the artist.
True. But for some reason, too many folks find it impossible
to even allocate the two or three minutes to update a web page.
Unfortunately, the trend I'm seeing is way to often for an artist
to accept a project, even accept a deposit, and then fail to
deliver or even keep the customer informed as to what is
happening. Since in this modern day there is no shame, the
page wouldn't be to hold accountable - it would be to warn others
to avoid this artist.
As a commerce consulting guy, you already know the old stat that if a customer has a good experience he'll tell two people, and if he has a bad one he'll tell seven.
Good idea.<Monty Python Holy Grail "God"> Of course it's a good idea! </MPHG"G">
I may want to share ideas with you off-the-newsgroup.
Dig it. :-)
Michael Russell
(( replied to sender and newsgroup ))
"David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)" wrote:
>
> >(1) Privacy. Such a page violates the customer's privacy. Some customers
>
> True, though as others have pointed out customer codes ect can fix
> this type of problem.
I think the use of an alias or customer code is a great idea
and does address the privacy issue.
> >(2) Pull rather than push. These pages require the customer to visit the
>
> Recall that push flopped. Also recall that web comics which require
> periodic viewing to work but these to work.
The implementation of push from web pages failed. Instead,
push has moved to email newsletters and other periodic mailings
from a site.
The concept of push didn't flop, a particular implementation
did.
> >(3) Impersonal. Customers view such a bulletin board approach as very
>
> However there is an advantige to this if I'm hunting for a
> commissionie I'm going to wish to know about there relibility and
> advage time to compleation.
This information is not shown on these commission status
pages. You are asking to see historical information. What
is shown is current status information.
So far, I have used the commission status page of some artists
to decide whether to ask for a commission based on my
perception of how busy they are. An artist with a long
open commission list is an artist I will avoid.
Michael Russell
Mprints wrote:
>
> I'm very interested in this, too. I'm discovering that with other
> commitments, RL, etc. it's very easy for commissions to back up. What
> would or should be considered a long time to get a piece completed or if
> possible, what do you consider a reasonable schedule for a project as
> far as updates, sketches for approval, etc. I truly hope for some
> responses on this as I would like to nip any problems I'm having in
> fulfilling these requirements in the bud and avoid them in the future.
We need to recognize that artists who do commissions in
this fandom are doing such on their free time. These artists
have regular jobs, some actually in the animation/graphic arts
industry. As a result, the turnaround time for a commission
is going to take longer than one with a full-time artist.
Then again, if furry artists were doing these commissions in
a professional capacity, then there would be contracts,
terms and conditions, delivery requirements, acceptance
criteria, clear copyright statements, and a much bigger
price tag.
Based on my four years of commissioning artwork and from the
survey results I have seen on a couple artist websites; these
are my observations.
Again, these are my generalized observations. These are not
my personal standards -- I am more flexible.
From commission acceptance to delivery -- six months or less.
After six months, most clients appear to assume that the
commission isn't going to be finished or ever delivered.
From commission acceptance to concept sketch -- one to two
months.
Most prefer not to pay a deposit until they see the concept
sketch.
Communications should be at least once a month. Actually, any
form of communications is important, even if it isn't to
report on the progress of the project.
There was a recent discovery about the importance of communications
in the airline industry. Historically, airlines have been the
worst in keeping their customers informed as to what is going on.
This resulted in some of the worst customer satisfaction ratings
for the airlines industry among industries surveyed. It got so
bad, that this was one of the cornerstone aspects of the
Airline Customer Bill of Rights being promoted in Congress. Very
effective. It scared most airlines into changing their policies.
I got a long letter from Delta Airlines explaining their "NEW"
policy of frequent, timely, and accurate notification of what
is going on when a flight is delayed or having mechanical
problems. What a novel idea -- tell the customer what is going
on.
I hope that helps.
Basically:
(a) the quicker the better
(b) keep the customer informed
(c) communications is important
Mprints
Daphne Lage wrote:
*snip*
>
> And concerning your "alternate" status chart listing how long commissions are
> taking - honestly, I can't really complain about such a chart either. I think it
> would certainly be enough of a "push" to get commissions done in a timely matter
> to avoid getting (or remaining) on such a list. If I knew such a status list
> existed and that artists were routinely getting monitored, I'd certainly go out
> of my way to try to get rid of a couple of bad habits that I know is keeping me
> from delivering pieces when I know I *should* be delivering them.
>
.....
>
> I really would like to know what everyone thinks about this because if its that
> much of a problem, then I'll take mine down or set it up so that only
> commissioners can access it.
*snip*
I'm very interested in this, too. I'm discovering that with other
commitments, RL, etc. it's very easy for commissions to back up. What
would or should be considered a long time to get a piece completed or if
possible, what do you consider a reasonable schedule for a project as
far as updates, sketches for approval, etc. I truly hope for some
responses on this as I would like to nip any problems I'm having in
fulfilling these requirements in the bud and avoid them in the future.
Thanks for your input,
Vicky Morgan-Keith
--
Mprints Publishing, Inc.
Comics of a Different Age
<http://members.home.net/mprints/>
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
<mrus...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[...]
>Here are the problems, from a customer satisfaction analysis view:
>
>(1) Privacy. Such a page violates the customer's privacy. Some customers
>would probably prefer that they are not known to be commissioning artwork
>or the nature of the artwork.
True, though as others have pointed out customer codes ect can fix
this type of problem.
>(2) Pull rather than push. These pages require the customer to visit the
>site on a regular basis to learn status. It has been shown that this
>type of "pull" behaviour to a web site does not work. [...] This is
>why there is such an interest in developing "push" technology
Recall that push flopped. Also recall that web comics which require
periodic viewing to work but these to work.
>(3) Impersonal. Customers view such a bulletin board approach as very
>impersonal.
However there is an advantige to this if I'm hunting for a
commissionie I'm going to wish to know about there relibility and
advage time to compleation.
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://www.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
PeterCat
mrus...@ix.netcom.com, Vick...@hotmail.com wrote:
>I've noticed a few artists are starting to put up "Commission Status" pages
>as a way to inform their customers about their commissions.
This baffles me. Wouldn't it make more sense to send the customer a quick
e-mail with a status report, instead of updating a web page? It would take
about the same amount of time, or less really, if a "stationery" message is
used and customized to the particulars. "Hi, just a quick message to let you
know I've been working on your commission. I just finished the pencils, but
I won't be able to start inking because I'll be out of town for the next few
days."
Perhaps some artists are doing web pages because if they sent e-mail, the
customer might (gasp!) answer back. Frankly I'd be rather wary of an artist
whose web page shows a large number of pending commissions. Sure, maybe
they're in demand, or maybe they just can't finish the work. These aren't
oil paintings, for gosh sakes. If an amateur artist can't finish a
pen-and-ink drawing within a week, I'd have to question whether they should
be taking commissions at all.
--
The Furry InfoPage! http://www.tigerden.com/infopage/furry/
pete...@furry.fan.org (PeterCat) Rhal on FurryMUCK (come cuddle!)
R Greg Older
because I don't get commissions except at cons of from friends (in which
case
they are gratis). Then again, I don't get that many at all, since I can
rarely afford
to go to cons except if they are really close (AC being my main one, I might
be
going to either Memphis or Midwest meets but no promises folks). At cons I
do
the work there. I can do computer colours for commisions in which case I
give the
customer the finished ink and my email and say "get a good scan to send me
and
I'll send you a colour version as soon as I can". I've never reneged on
that sort of
contract and have passed over the colour to the customer in due time
(longest was
three months I'll admit). As for straight contracts via the mail (such as I
did with
the Altarskunk comics) I do the work and post back to the commishioner that
it is done (or at least the inked) "so you can send on the cheque and I'll
send the
finished work to you". I am straight up whether or not my schedual allows
me
to art or not. If you're asking yourself right now "can I get a commission
from Style?"
the answer is: "try me at or after AC". I'm knee deep in revisions and art
for the
next enstallement of "Wrong Side of Town", art for the Dela portfolio to be
released at
AC, and working with Greg revising and rescanning for the first Dela
Treasury.
---Style Wager
Dela the Hooda Online Comic
http://www.comnet.ca/~foxtrot/dela