What does "furry" mean to us? (semi-rant)
Ben Cottrell
Hi all :-) I've been following the "What happened to being nice and
furry" thread and I felt I just had to get this off my chest... it's
an issue that's come back to bug me in one form or another for a while.
I think there are several definitions of the term "furry" circulating
about. The prevalent one on the aforementioned thread seems to be that a
furry is someone who plays an anthropomorphic character in a role-playing
context. There are clearly defined boundaries between the "furry" and
the "human", and it's assumed that they act in disparate ways. The
definition that I and a large fraction of my friends use is vastly
different--quite simply, we feel more comfortable when we can act as our
animal. No strings attached--nothing more is said.
My own experiences are thus: Ever since I was quite young, I've felt very
close to members of the canine family. I have also felt the need--
although I didn't put it into these words before--to *be* a fox. I spent a
large portion of my life occasionally wondering why I had to conform to all
these "human" standards of behavior: "But darn it, I should be able to lick
my friend's ear if I want to!" I don't mean to give the impression that I
was maladjusted or a social outcast for this--after all, my parents brought
me up to be human and I was. I was also, however, frustrated at the
restrictiveness of social norms.
Last year, when I was 15, my brother (who goes by the name Che in furry
circles) saw that I was obsessively reading Elf's Journal Entries, and
introduced me to #furry on IRC. The concept of being furry was new to me,
even though I already had the instincts. Naively, I first chose a feline as
my species, because of a feline Journal Entry character whom I admired. I
quickly discovered that I was much more vulpine--which also seems to
confirm my thesis that being furry is deeper than playing a role. The
discovery of this channel was quite probably the single most liberating
experience in my life so far, because the users of the channel I found
to be friends with were like me, more than roleplayers, *furries*.
I've often encountered people who will vehemently assert their furriness and
hang around in furry sorts of places on the net, but don't seem to have
this same feeling about themselves. They treat furriness--like the
contributors to the thread I mentioned at the start--as a roleplaying
experience. They're as anthropomorphic as anyone could wish for on the net,
but when asked point blank if they really act and think of themselves as
their animals in real life, they'll answer with a rather confused no. I have
a tendency to be annoyed by these people, because I feel that in some sense
they are being dishonest about who they really are. If they wish to interact
with me on human-to-human terms, they may do so--I don't force my furriness
on mundanes that I'm friends with. But if they want to be accepted by me as
furry, I expect them to do more than pay lip-service to the idea of
anthropomorphism.
I have more than once gotten into disputes *solely* because the two
opposing sides had the two opposing definitions of "furry". And it
irritates me a lot to see people claiming that one should not "confuse
fantasy with reality", because to me, my being furry is not a fantasy--
it's a way that I can---and prefer to--act towards others and towards the
world. I'm sure that my side of things irritates the roleplayers as well.
I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
"furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
conflicts that arise?
Thanks a lot!
*hugs* :-)
--
____ -Ben Cottrell (home page http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~benco/)
\ / GCS(M) dpu s:+ a16 C++++ UB++++ P++(--) L- @E- W++(-) N++ K+ w-- !O++ @M+
\/ PS++ ?PE Y PGP-- @t+ 5? X? R--(+) tv-- b+++ DI-- D- G+ e h!(*) r%(++) y+**
Tamino on FurryMUCK and YiffNet IRC Pendor! NetBSD!
Captain Packrat
Nice to see that there is at least someone else who feels the way I do.
While I do not try to deny that I have a human body, I believe that I
have the soul of a mouse. My personality, my habits, even my skills
are very murine. I tend to be very shy and very quiet in real life
(some people even think that I am unfriendly because I tend to keep to
myself all the time). I also tend to be easily startled. I like hugs
and snuggleing (Introduce yourself first tho'; i.e. "Hi! I'm SoAndSo
from FurryMUCK"). I have a tendency to walk digitigrade (The toes on my
shoes wear out much faster than the heel). I absolutely love cheese,
peanut butter, and bacon (A mouse's three favorite foods). I am very
quick at solving puzzles (studies suggest that rodents, espesially mice
and rats, may be better at solving certain types of puzzles than humans!),
and I never get lost (mice navigate by memory and never get lost). I tend
to be more aware of smells than most humans are (My sense of smell is not
that much better, it's just that I pay more attention to smells), and I
can even identify a few close family and friends by their scent! I
have far more dreams about mice and being a mouse than I do about humans.
I am not some RPG'er who has gotten carried away with his character. I
have been this way all my life. Even on FurryMUCK, I DON'T roleplay. My
character IS who I am (tho' in Real Life I have to refrain from hugging
people because of human social "norms").
And no, I'm not crazy. I didn't say that I AM a mouse. I know that
physically, I am human. There is no denying that. I just believe
that my soul is murine. (Transspeciesism, perhaps?)
Captain Packrat
"What use is magic if it can't save a unicorn? -- Peter S. Beagle"
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O. .O This little bit of wasted bandwidth brought to you by:
==V== "News Error: More included text than new text"
Herman Miller
In article <4mv5lk$m...@agate.berkeley.edu>, be...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU
says...
>
>I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
>"furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
>people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
>conflicts that arise?
I think many of us use "furry" as a shorthand for "furry fan", that is,
someone who enjoys anthropomorphic fiction or artwork, in whatever form.
But the line between the two isn't as sharp as it might seem. I can't claim
that I see myself as a furry in the sense that you're using the term, but
I'm convinced that it's more than just a basic artistic preference. I
realize that it's a trait I've always had, not like other tastes which come
and go. I think there's an entire spectrum of furriness, and that there's
no clear distinction between one who enjoys looking at and drawing furry
art, on the one paw, and one who feels internally furry, on the other. And
the feeling can certainly change over time; I once thought of myself as
somewhat feline; now, if I had to pick a species it would probably be a
rodent, but I don't actually feel like one myself. Role-playing is another
angle to approaching furriness, but I've almost always played elf
characters. So there are many possible ways to approach furriness, and I
like diversity! If anything, from what I understand, fans of furry comics
may have a stronger claim to the word, but the medium doesn't define the
genre. Does that help or does it just make things more confused?
--
new & improved home page! +----------<http://www.io.com/~hmiller/>----------
|"You have passed a law that will get less respect
Thryomanes (Herman Miller)| than the 55 m.p.h. speed limit dead bang in the
(hmi...@io.com) | middle of the First Amendment." - Steve Russell
Herman Miller
In article <31938F...@sisna.com>, captp...@sisna.com says...
>
>Nice to see that there is at least someone else who feels the way I do.
>
>While I do not try to deny that I have a human body, I believe that I
>have the soul of a mouse. My personality, my habits, even my skills
>are very murine.
An interesting list. I wonder how closely this matches me...
> I tend to be very shy and very quiet in real life
Check.
>(some people even think that I am unfriendly because I tend to keep to
>myself all the time).
Probably. I've never really noticed, though.
> I also tend to be easily startled.
Hmm.... Depends on the situation. I have, on occasion, been more easily
startled than one would expect, but I don't think it's a tendency.
> I like hugs
>and snuggleing (Introduce yourself first tho'; i.e. "Hi! I'm SoAndSo
>from FurryMUCK").
Hmm.... I certainly don't mind hugs, but I'm not used to them.
> I have a tendency to walk digitigrade (The toes on my
>shoes wear out much faster than the heel).
My shoes are worn out in the middle. To be more precise, about 1/3 of the
distance from the front. Yes, it's about time for me to buy new shoes.
> I absolutely love cheese,
>peanut butter, and bacon (A mouse's three favorite foods).
Cheese, check. Bacon, check. I'm not fond of peanut butter, despite the
fact that I love peanuts. (Weird, isn't it?) But I do love nuts,
especially walnuts and pecans, which suggests my personality is closer to a
nut-loving rodent like a squirrel. And chocolate!! Is there any rodent
that loves chocolate?
> I am very
>quick at solving puzzles (studies suggest that rodents, espesially mice
>and rats, may be better at solving certain types of puzzles than humans!),
Check. I don't know about "very quick", but I'm very fond of puzzles.
>and I never get lost (mice navigate by memory and never get lost).
Unfortunately, I regularly get lost. Once, I drove right past the place I
was looking for *three times* before I noticed it, even though I'd been
there a week before!
> I tend
>to be more aware of smells than most humans are (My sense of smell is not
>that much better, it's just that I pay more attention to smells), and I
>can even identify a few close family and friends by their scent!
No, I'm more a hearing-oriented person.
> I
>have far more dreams about mice and being a mouse than I do about humans.
Well, at least I've had a couple of dreams about mice. Probably more than
most people have, anyway. Also some with squirrels and even a lemming.
>I am not some RPG'er who has gotten carried away with his character. I
>have been this way all my life. Even on FurryMUCK, I DON'T roleplay. My
>character IS who I am (tho' in Real Life I have to refrain from hugging
>people because of human social "norms").
>
>And no, I'm not crazy. I didn't say that I AM a mouse. I know that
>physically, I am human. There is no denying that. I just believe
>that my soul is murine. (Transspeciesism, perhaps?)
I've occasionally wondered if I'm really human, mentally. I can't exactly
tell what species I would be, though.
Michael J. Rider
In article <31938F...@sisna.com>, Captain Packrat
<captp...@sisna.com> wrote:
> Ben Cottrell wrote:
> >
> > Hi all :-) I've been following the "What happened to being nice and
> > furry" thread and I felt I just had to get this off my chest... it's
> > an issue that's come back to bug me in one form or another for a while.
<rant snipped>
> Nice to see that there is at least someone else who feels the way I do.
>
> While I do not try to deny that I have a human body, I believe that I
> have the soul of a mouse. My personality, my habits, even my skills
> are very murine. I tend to be very shy and very quiet in real life
> (some people even think that I am unfriendly because I tend to keep to
> myself all the time). I also tend to be easily startled. I like hugs
> and snuggleing (Introduce yourself first tho'; i.e. "Hi! I'm SoAndSo
> from FurryMUCK"). I have a tendency to walk digitigrade (The toes on my
> shoes wear out much faster than the heel). I absolutely love cheese,
> peanut butter, and bacon (A mouse's three favorite foods). I am very
> quick at solving puzzles (studies suggest that rodents, espesially mice
> and rats, may be better at solving certain types of puzzles than humans!),
> and I never get lost (mice navigate by memory and never get lost). I tend
> to be more aware of smells than most humans are (My sense of smell is not
> that much better, it's just that I pay more attention to smells), and I
> can even identify a few close family and friends by their scent! I
> have far more dreams about mice and being a mouse than I do about humans.
I'm certainly no mouse, but I know just what you mean. My habits have
always been very feline. <don't worry, I don't eat mice> For favorite
foods try smoked salmon or cremé brouleé. <smack> I do tend to keep to
myself a bit at times. I'm not unpersonable and definitely huggable.
<looks at bottoms of bare feet> Heh, now this _is_ getting odd. You can
only identify close family and friends by scent? I'm no bloodhound, but I
can very often tell who has been wearing a jacket from the scent left
behind. Certain people have the _nicest_ scents too. Do I have kitty
dreams? You bet I do.
Just my $.02, from an non-rodent.
--
____________________________ |\ /|
/ Michael J. Rider / :o o:
/ AKA: Fluffy /________oOOo_==( ^ )==_oOOo__________
/ jag...@warwick.net / ' /
/ Jason_Jaguar on FurryMUCK / Hey, what's going on up here? /
---------------------------- /
/ Brain> Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? /
/ Pinky> Uh, I think so, Brain, but where will we find a /
/ duck and a hose at this hour? /
-------------------------------------------------------------
Bryan Chaney
On 10 May 1996, Ben Cottrell wrote:
> Hi all :-) I've been following the "What happened to being nice and
> furry" thread and I felt I just had to get this off my chest... it's
> an issue that's come back to bug me in one form or another for a while.
[snip; semi-rant deleted]
> I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
> "furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
> people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
> conflicts that arise?
For me, being a furry is rather confused prospect. I'd don't classify
myself in the drooling fanboy aspect of the fandom, i.e. constantly
obsessively looking for the latest erotica print, et. al. I enjoy
erotica, but that is not why I'm in to furries. For me, my furry is an
extension of me. I, like Tamino, would, *at times* rather act as a toon
wolf than a hyooman, but at the same time, I realize that I'm a human, and
as such I have certain conventions and responsiblities I must uphold.
It's more than simply roleplay, but I am also not convinced I *am* a wolf
(for that way lies madness), maybe more accurately a human with wolf (and
toon) aspects. In my experience, there are many different approaches to
roleplay. Some are like Tamino, throughly convinced of the role, though
I'm sure he knows the difference and were the line is drawn. I have
a friend, when he is roleplaying, absolutely refuses to drop the persona,
even if the conversation involves the player instead of the character,
because he feels it destroys the character. To look down upon how
different people approach this thing we call "furry" is ultimately
pointless. Humans, for centuries, have felt connection to their animal
selves, to vary degrees. Anyway that we accept that, whether through
through conviction of being that fur or merely roleplay, makes us that
much more int touch with what it means to be a human.
"We're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz!",
"Wilford" Bryan "Wolf" Chaney wbw...@u.washington.edu
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~wbwolf
"Say...what kind of crazy wolf are you anyways?" Minerva Mink, Animaniacs
"Some of my best friends are Warner Brothers" - Groucho Marx
A! JW22 YW++i^ WK+ DT+++i!^ PI+ BR+ SL+++r!:'^ SK+ RI+: MM+!/0^ KK---
Wilford++i P++ I+++ Ddpfaw Tow $+++d Vr+j++t++ IV! E59b Ee30 TBrain245
Chris Johnson
(much postage *edit, reduce bandwidth*)
> I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
> "furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
> people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
> conflicts that arise?
Hi Tami :) long time no see.
If you saw my first post of the thread you know where I stand- indeed,
you knew long before the newsgroup because we've butted heads on the
matter before ;)
I remain a cranky annoying ol' tigr. Well, maybe not all that annoying-
there are a few people who might think of me as a splendiferous person-
but my aloofness and wariness is very much a part of me, and in a lot of
ways that is why I'm always feline at heart, no matter what. Or, of
course, no matter what alt... alts alarm some people but to me another
feline alt is a far cry from, say, a water buffalo ;)
If you accept the concept of 'somebody's animal' you must be willing to
try and understand people whose animals (as it were) behave very
differently, have very different worldviews, and so on.
I must say, if ever I see or even think of a fox cub I shall
automatically think of you. Conversely- you've seen me in a lot of
situations, of different types. I've hardly lived up to your standards in
all those situations. However, perhaps I have lived up to mine.
It's always tricky when you _do_ have a powerful totem (though it seems
felinity is pretty easy to have as part of your personality IMHO) because
it becomes a challenge to understand other 'furs' who have that in common
but whose totems are radically different. I sorta-kinda understand lupines
(the most common 'were', it seems). I have difficulty seeing how vulpine
is much different from human, and I have never understood equines very
well. It doesn't bother me, of course- after all _I_ am a feline and am
not greatly troubled by not relating with everybody. Not a social totem at
all, doesn't run in packs etc etc, and greatly suited to a sort of amused
detachment...
Hmph, rather than write another essay, I'll leave it at that and go off
and be amusedly detached somewhere else ;)
Jinx_tigr
(aka Chris Johnson)
Mer'rark
Ben Cottrell (be...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
: Hi all :-) I've been following the "What happened to being nice and
: furry" thread and I felt I just had to get this off my chest... it's
: an issue that's come back to bug me in one form or another for a while.
[lots more that was here that ain't here no more 'cause I deleted it]
Actually I probably felt more or less the same way when I was 15 years
old... way way back in the year of our lord, nineteen hundred and
eighty-five. <g> Anyways... back then I didn't know didly about
'furry', I just knew I liked mice a lot. Later on, studying engineering
at Cal State Fullerton my handles consistantly made references to
coyotes. And to this day I still like them. They're that thing between
order and chaos, and they persevere agianst impossible odds.
But you all know this. Coyote is the trickster, and Wile E. Coyote
is an engineer. He could afford to do more bug testing though. =)
yip
--
Mer'rark The original sapient canine from the future, Amiga owner, FurryMUCK
and Furtoonian denizen, and wizard on SPR, AN, and Clip's yet to
be named MUCK.
-----------------------------------------
"If we do not lift the youth out of the morass of their present-day
environment, they will drown in it... This cleansing of our culture must
be extended to nearly all fields. Theater, art, literature, cinema, press,
posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our
rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural
idea. Public life must be freed from the stifling perfume of our modern
eroticism, just as it must be freed from all unmanly, prudish hypocrisy...
The right of personal freedom recedes before the duty to preserve the race."
-- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 255
-----------------------------------------
"But sir, I have no pornograph!"
-- Groucho Marx
-----------------------------------------
Cybear
be...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Ben Cottrell) writes:
>Hi all :-) I've been following the "What happened to being nice and
>furry" thread and I felt I just had to get this off my chest... it's
>an issue that's come back to bug me in one form or another for a while.
>I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
>"furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
>people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
>conflicts that arise?
For me, there is generally no conflict. I never have really thought of
myself as a "furry", in the sense that you mean. I have no 'animal self'
inside of me that I want to express.
I tend to think of myself as a human who is attracted to unusual or
alien things, including (but not limited to) furries. The way I usually
think of myself is as a 'xenofan' (or 'xxxenofan', depending on my mood ;).
Bill
(The human furry/anime/sf/fantasy/weird-stuff fan)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Bill Barbas <cyb...@netcom.com>
(AKA: Cybear on FurToonia, Joe_Blues on FurryMUCK)
Disclaimer: My words, my actions, my responsibility.
David G. Bell
In article <merrarkD...@netcom.com> mer...@netcom.com "Mer'rark" writes:
> Ben Cottrell (be...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
> : Hi all :-) I've been following the "What happened to being nice and
> : furry" thread and I felt I just had to get this off my chest... it's
> : an issue that's come back to bug me in one form or another for a while.
>
> [lots more that was here that ain't here no more 'cause I deleted it]
>
> Actually I probably felt more or less the same way when I was 15 years
> old... way way back in the year of our lord, nineteen hundred and
> eighty-five. <g> Anyways... back then I didn't know didly about
> 'furry', I just knew I liked mice a lot. Later on, studying engineering
> at Cal State Fullerton my handles consistantly made references to
> coyotes. And to this day I still like them. They're that thing between
> order and chaos, and they persevere agianst impossible odds.
>
> But you all know this. Coyote is the trickster, and Wile E. Coyote
> is an engineer. He could afford to do more bug testing though. =)
There is a series of detective/police-procedural novels about a couple
of cops on an Indian Reservation... Northern Arizona, I think.
I was reading one of them from the library about six weeks back. One of
the characters -- an old Indian who has been arrested for Murder -- says
something about the coyote as trickster image being a lie to hide the
truth.
The impression that sticks in my mind put coyote in the same class as
Loki in Norse mythology, and maybe worse.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Synicism
be...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Ben Cottrell) wrote:
My own experiences are thus: Ever since I was quite young, I've felt very
close to members of the canine family. I have also felt the need--
although I didn't put it into these words before--to *be* a fox. I spent a
large portion of my life occasionally wondering why I had to conform to
all
these "human" standards of behavior: "But darn it, I should be able to
lick
my friend's ear if I want to!" I don't mean to give the impression that I
was maladjusted or a social outcast for this--after all, my parents
brought
me up to be human and I was. I was also, however, frustrated at the
restrictiveness of social norms.
Last year, when I was 15, my brother (who goes by the name Che in furry
circles) saw that I was obsessively reading Elf's Journal Entries, and
introduced me to #furry on IRC. The concept of being furry was new to me,
even though I already had the instincts. Naively, I first chose a feline
as
my species, because of a feline Journal Entry character whom I admired. I
quickly discovered that I was much more vulpine--which also seems to
confirm my thesis that being furry is deeper than playing a role. The
discovery of this channel was quite probably the single most liberating
experience in my life so far, because the users of the channel I found
to be friends with were like me, more than roleplayers, *furries*.
<CLIP!!!!!!>
**************************************************************************
********************
I don't think it's fair for you to say that anthropomorphic fans, or
furries, to use a shorter word, can be divided into people who really
think with the personality traits of certain animals and people who just
think it's cool.
I consider myself a furry, as it were, and I have long had a love, as you
do, for canines, especially those of the vulpine persuasion, but I do
realize that I am not a fox. Entranced by their beauty, and thinking
they're kind of cute and fuzzy perhaps, but not a fox.
There are a large number who call themselves furries who appreciate them
for artistic reasons, of which role playing is one. If they're not
furries, then, my friend, what ARE they?
Christopher V. Berdoz
>>
>>I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
>>"furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
>>people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
>>conflicts that arise?
I didn't think this place was that deep.
I mean, I just like cartoons, I'm not very partial to real
animals at all. They're cute, but you know, I'm a human, and
I've been raised and spoiled in a human culture, and if you've
got a pet dog that's not tame, tryin' to love my leg or just
jump all up on me, happy or sad, beware, because I'll hurt it.
I think we all identify ourselves with animals, even if it is
just the human animal, which for many of us, it is.
I want to ask people again myself, is anyone else in a.f.f.
like me? Is anyone here simply an anime/disney/warners etc.
fan with no interest 'identifying' him or herself with any
animal? Does anyone else here feel kinda weird by being
involved with the furry fandom because of all the controversial
things that come along with the furry name? I hate it when my
roommate calls me a furry. I told him not to do that. I just
sorta like hangin' around them, that's all. We've got at least
something in common, is what I like about it.
But if y'all wanna be like that then I gots no problem with that.
I think it might be a love for fantasy, but if you believe in
your heart that this is the way you are, then I guess that's
the way it is with you... go right on ahead, and I will think no
lesser of you at all, more power to you!...
No, I am not a lesser person by not being this way, nor do I
regret my being the way I am, nor do I feel I would be
"better" or be "missing out" if I was more "furry", like
this thread is about.
CB, simply a fan of animation with animals in it.
Richard J. Bartrop
On 10 May 1996, Ben Cottrell wrote:
> I've often encountered people who will vehemently assert their furriness and
> hang around in furry sorts of places on the net, but don't seem to have
> this same feeling about themselves. They treat furriness--like the
> contributors to the thread I mentioned at the start--as a roleplaying
> experience. They're as anthropomorphic as anyone could wish for on the net,
> but when asked point blank if they really act and think of themselves as
> their animals in real life, they'll answer with a rather confused no. I have
> a tendency to be annoyed by these people, because I feel that in some sense
> they are being dishonest about who they really are. If they wish to interact
> with me on human-to-human terms, they may do so--I don't force my furriness
> on mundanes that I'm friends with. But if they want to be accepted by me as
> furry, I expect them to do more than pay lip-service to the idea of
> anthropomorphism.
>
> I have more than once gotten into disputes *solely* because the two
> opposing sides had the two opposing definitions of "furry". And it
> irritates me a lot to see people claiming that one should not "confuse
> fantasy with reality", because to me, my being furry is not a fantasy--
> it's a way that I can---and prefer to--act towards others and towards the
> world. I'm sure that my side of things irritates the roleplayers as well.
>
> I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
> "furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
> people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
> conflicts that arise?
>
I guess I'm one of those roleplayers whom you hold in such contempt.
For me, the roleplay is the thing, and the Mucks are essentially one huge
elaborate D&D game.
I have a character in the Mucks, Grey, and he may be a part of me in the
way that all characters represent a part of their creators, Grey is not
me, nor am I he. He has a different background, different life
experiences, and reacts to some things differently than I do. Outside
of the Muck, I am Richard Bartrop, human being, and whatever existence
Grey has is purely as a product of my imagination. This is not to say
that I ama fanatic about staying in character, and will drop out of
character to join in real-world conversations. Frankly it is an effort to
stay in character all the time, and it's nice to be able to take a break
occaissionally, but this is secondary to the proper role of the Mcuk as a
roleplaying environment. The ones I have difficulty understanding, are
the ones who treat places like FurryMUCK as little more than a chat room.
They come in looking exactly as they do in real life,sometimes not even
changing species, behaving exactly as they do in real life, and talking
about nothing but real-life. Personally, if you don't think this stuff is
interesting enough in real-life, I don't see where doing it as a fox will
make it that much more palatable. It's likegoing to Disneyland o you can
hang out in the coffee shops. It's their business, I suppose, but I can't
help feeling they're somehow missing the point.
I'm sorry if I'm not pure enough in my 'furriness'. I think of
myself first and foremost as a human being, and I think human females are
just dandy. I don't spend a lot of time wishing I was a wolf. Granted,
going through a winter that was consistently in the -20's made having a
pelt look very attractive, but to be honest, if the hypothetical
'furrification' process that gets brought up here and elsewhere were
available, and affordable, I don't think I'd do it. Furfandom is not just
about cheap spooge and confused species identity, as some would have you
believe. I wouldn't be in it, nor would a lot of people, i think,it that
all it was about. What attracted me was the wide range of posibilities in
this genre, or as Tygger put it, a meta-genre, and personally, I'd like to
see more emphasis of some of the other aspects of furriness. Despite the
beliefs of some, its not up to anyone to decide who is and isn't truly
furry
Richard Bartrop
write/artist,"Zaibatsu Tears"
Grey on FurryMUCK
D.J. Green
In article <4mv5lk$m...@agate.berkeley.edu>,
Ben Cottrell <be...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>I've often encountered people who will vehemently assert their furriness and
>hang around in furry sorts of places on the net, but don't seem to have
>this same feeling about themselves. They treat furriness--like the
>contributors to the thread I mentioned at the start--as a roleplaying
>experience. They're as anthropomorphic as anyone could wish for on the net,
>but when asked point blank if they really act and think of themselves as
>their animals in real life, they'll answer with a rather confused no. I have
>a tendency to be annoyed by these people, because I feel that in some sense
>they are being dishonest about who they really are. If they wish to interact
>with me on human-to-human terms, they may do so--I don't force my furriness
>on mundanes that I'm friends with. But if they want to be accepted by me as
>furry, I expect them to do more than pay lip-service to the idea of
>anthropomorphism.
I suppose I'm one of those people who annoys you, then. But, on the other
hand, I find myself rather annoyed by your own attitude on this matter,
which striles me as rather... well, to be unfortunately blunt, pompous.
I have referred to myself as being "furry," yes. But , unless I've missed
something important, "furry" has been a rather accepted shorthand for
"furry fan." I roleplay anthropomorphic characters on MUDs. I enjoy
reading stories with anthro characters, and looking at art with anthro
subjects. But it's not a transcendent "this is who I am" thing. It's a
"this is aesthetically pleasing" thing. When I roleplay an anthro
character, it's not because that's who I really want to be and I'm dead
miserable being who I am. (Check out my story, 'A Dream of Wakefulness,'
on avatar. *plug*) It's because I want to try to imagine the sensations.
What's it like to be as lithe as a cat? How would it feel to wag one's
tail? To walk about on four paws instead of two legs? To have the wind
blowing through one's fur? To hug another anthropomorph?
I don't think of myself as an animal in real life. I'm human. To assert
anything else, for me, would be giving in to fantasy. I certainly wouldn't
mind "trying out" a furry body sometime. But it's nothing I'd go a long
way out of my way for. After more than fifteen years of, in some way or
other, imagining what it would be like to be some sort of anthropomorph or
shapeshifter, I've also learned to be content with my lot, and not mire
myself down in trying to be something that I'm not.
I'm not being dishonest about myself by roleplaying furry characters: it's
something I do because I'm curious about the experience, because I enjoy
the aesthetics, and because sometimes it's nice, even overall content with
the way I am, to take a little break from reality. I don't need to think
of myself as an animal. I still hug people if they don't mind. I give
earscritches and backrubs, even if I am only human, and I like having my
own back scritched. I like furry art, furry stories, and furry
roleplaying. But none of this means that I have to somehow not be human
any more.
>I have more than once gotten into disputes *solely* because the two
>opposing sides had the two opposing definitions of "furry". And it
>irritates me a lot to see people claiming that one should not "confuse
>fantasy with reality", because to me, my being furry is not a fantasy--
>it's a way that I can---and prefer to--act towards others and towards the
>world. I'm sure that my side of things irritates the roleplayers as well.
Depends on how it's stated. When I've come across people who say they're
animals in a human body, or something similar, I'll admit, I find it kind
of weird, but I also think that they're entitled to their opinions, and
maybe they know or feel something I don't. But when I have somebody tell
me that I'm "not a furry" because I think of myself as a human who happens
to enjoy furry art in its various forms, and because I don't feel that I
have to break human mores and act like an animal to be myself, then, yes, I
get kind of irritated at that. I reserve the right to enjoy whatever form
of art I want to.
Or, to put it another way:
Do I have to be a banana to enjoy a still life painting of fruit?
Must I be a Starfleet officer to like watching "Star Trek"?
If not, then why do I have to be an animal to enjoy furry fandom? :)
>I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
>"furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
>people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
>conflicts that arise?
I use "furry," as previously stated, as a shorthand for "furry fan," when
referring to real people. I have also used it to refer to anthropomorphs
in art picture and story. I think the other picture is rather weird, but I
tend not to argue it unless people insist that I'm wrong to begin with.
And I try not to initiate conflicts, and, when others initiate them by
being confrontational, I assert my own POV. Kind of like this.
--
Flash! Saran Wrap factory on 10th Street explodes! Film at 11.
Herman Miller
In article
<Pine.A32.3.92.960513...@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>,
rbar...@freenet.calgary.ab.ca says...
>
>Furfandom is not just
>about cheap spooge and confused species identity, as some would have you
>believe. I wouldn't be in it, nor would a lot of people, i think,it that
>all it was about. What attracted me was the wide range of posibilities in
>this genre, or as Tygger put it, a meta-genre, and personally, I'd like to
>see more emphasis of some of the other aspects of furriness. Despite the
>beliefs of some, its not up to anyone to decide who is and isn't truly
>furry
An interesting choice of words, "meta-genre", since "furriness" runs across
many of the traditionally-labeled genres (F/SF, comedy, historical novels,
sports, advertising, forest-fire prevention....) Categorizing works by
genre isn't always easy, since genres often overlap (as in the case of
fantasy and science fiction). Rather than referring to the type of story,
"furry" refers to the type of characters in the story. But it's the variety
of furry character types that make the "meta-genre" so interesting. I'd
also like to see more examples of furry diversity.
Watts Martin
In article <4n88o7$t...@cabell.vcu.edu>, Christopher V. Berdoz wrote:
>I want to ask people again myself, is anyone else in a.f.f.
>like me? Is anyone here simply an anime/disney/warners etc.
>fan with no interest 'identifying' him or herself with any
>animal? Does anyone else here feel kinda weird by being
>involved with the furry fandom because of all the controversial
>things that come along with the furry name? I hate it when my
>roommate calls me a furry. I told him not to do that. I just
>sorta like hangin' around them, that's all. We've got at least
>something in common, is what I like about it.
I've been involved in furry fandom since 1987 and don't have a "personal
furry" or other species identification. (Because of the characters I write
and play, I'm often identified with bats and cats, but at furry cons when
I've been asked what my personal furry is, I usually respond "Harlan
Ellison".) The "controversial things" that furry means to many folks now
bother me -- not because I'm against erotica (I've written some, in fact),
but because, as I asserted a few years back, I don't want people to assume
I'm a bisexual bondage bunny solely on the grounds that I'm a furry fan. I
maintain a hope that *more* fans like you, and others whose identification
with furrydom is based on appreciation of the art, animation, storytelling
and/or myth rather than a desire to be with people who are snuggly and
unquestioningly accepting, will make themselves heard. There's nothing
*wrong* with being snuggly and accepting, and it's arguably better than
being ice-cold and prejudiced, but socio-sexual fanac needs to be removed
from the definition of "furry fan."
Richard Chandler
Hear Hear!
One thing that annoys me about the "I'm an animal trapped in a human
body" folks is that often the say this because of traits they IMAGINE the
species has. If you're "yiffy" then you're probably NOT anything like a
RL fox. If you're hyperactive and piss on the carpet, then you probably
are. If you can't sit still and bite strangers who try to pet you, then
that's even more true.
Liking cheese, bacon and peanut butter are perfectly normal human traits
as well. (And chocolate is poisonous to cats and dogs. Wanna give up
chocolate?)
I'm a Furry fan. I've been one since before I knew about the fandom. I'm
a furry fan because I like stories, art, comics and films with critters in
them. I will even go so far as to say that If they can create them in RL,
I'd think it was really neat, because, as Ken Shardik put it, I'd really
like to be able to touch one. Be one? Nah, I'll settle for the
occasional flying dream thank you.
--
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog... but they can tell right
off the bat if you're an idiot! -- Me
<a href="http://www.teleport.com/~mauser/"> Gallery Web Page </a>
Mail to <mau...@teleport.com> forwarded to <mau...@claris.com>
Forest L. Burns
"Richard J. Bartrop" <rbar...@freenet.calgary.ab.ca> wrote:
Thanks to my ISP deleting the original Message in a MailServer Crash,
I'm posting Followup to Mr. Bartrop's letter, though this is mostly a
reply to Mr. Cottrell's original post.
>
>
>On 10 May 1996, Ben Cottrell wrote:
>
>> I've often encountered people who will vehemently assert their furriness and
>> hang around in furry sorts of places on the net, but don't seem to have
>> this same feeling about themselves. They treat furriness--like the
>> contributors to the thread I mentioned at the start--as a roleplaying
>> experience. They're as anthropomorphic as anyone could wish for on the net,
>> but when asked point blank if they really act and think of themselves as
>> their animals in real life, they'll answer with a rather confused no.
>>
I am one of those evil role-players, rather than a personal furry.
Being a furry is a hobby to me, not a way of life. I've played
role-playing games since the first D&D games and whenever possible I
have played a non-human, and furry if available, characters. . I
like animals (especially the great cats), collect animal art based on
the great cats (anthro and non), but in no way consider myself to be a
cat. I wasn't aware that it was a requirement for liking
anthropomorphics that I think of myself as an animal. It doesn't
make me any less furry than you, just indicates that I view it
differently.
>>
>> I have a tendency to be annoyed by these people, because I feel that in some sense
>> they are being dishonest about who they really are. If they wish to interact
>> with me on human-to-human terms, they may do so--I don't force my furriness
>> on mundanes that I'm friends with. But if they want to be accepted by me as
>> furry, I expect them to do more than pay lip-service to the idea of
>> anthropomorphism.
>>
No, they are not dishonest. Most role-players I know have in their
WI (on the mucks) the flag 'Always IC'. Many, such as my character,
have fairly outlandish IC personna's that should be obvious to a
resonable observer when character. I do not feel you are being
dishonest in your choices, but I do feel you are being very rude and
judgemental, accusing those that don't think just like you do of
paying 'lip-service'. to being furry.
>>
>> I have more than once gotten into disputes *solely* because the two
>> opposing sides had the two opposing definitions of "furry". And it
>> irritates me a lot to see people claiming that one should not "confuse
>> fantasy with reality", because to me, my being furry is not a fantasy--
>> it's a way that I can---and prefer to--act towards others and towards the
>> world. I'm sure that my side of things irritates the roleplayers as well.
>>
No, personal furries don't irritate me or most of the role players I
know because they don't role play....In general, I try to avoid them
to avoid confusion over IC/OOC behavior. What DOES irritate me and
many of the role players is that many personal furries believe
themselves to be the only 'true' furries....as denoted by your
comments about paying lip-service to anthropomorphism.
>>
>> I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
>> "furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
>> people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
>> conflicts that arise?
How do I mentally categorize people? Well I try not to beyond simple
labels of Personal Furry and Role Player, that I use to denote
behavior (and how I should treat others, i.e. out of courtesy, I
don't Role Play around Personal Furries). In general, I see them as
having equally valid outlooks....no one group is more a 'true' furry
than the other.
_____END REPLY TO BEN COTTRELL_____
Amen Richard!
I am in total agreement with your above points. Most especially the
part about the chat rooms. I find it annoying the same folks that
log on the muck, set up a species and description as an animal, then
stand around the park talking about nothing but RL events feel they
are more a furry than those that actually try to see things (albeit,
online only) as an anthropomorphic would. Both are valid in their
own way, and I don't consider them less a furry...just a different
kind with a different outlook. I just wish they could lighten up and
live and let live.
Forest L. Burns
Arian on Sociopolitical Ramifications Muck (svansmoj.ctrl-c.liu.se:23)
Tim Gadd
be...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Ben Cottrell) wrote:
> "But darn it, I should be able to lick my friend's ear if I want to!"
Damn right. In Tasmania it is a criminal offence to lick your friend's
ear. I get around this by asking strangers to do it.
Ben, I'm not trying to dodge your question, I'm just going to spend
the next two months thinking about it. I am pretty well comfortable
with being human, although there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever
that I suffer from tail envy (1). Thing is, I'm 32. By my age you
end up accepting all sorts of shit - even being human.
This is my de-lurk. Hi, everyone. You folks have a nice place.
Tim Gadd
(tjg...@southcom.com.au)
statio pellis australis
(1) Tail Envy Amongst Recent Human Immigrants, Y'rik horuon. English
translation pending.
griz...@astral.magic.ca
In article <4mv5lk$m...@agate.berkeley.edu>, Ben Cottrell writes:
> I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
> "furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
> people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
> conflicts that arise?
This isn't gonna be much help...I tried defining just what kinds of
furrys there are to an interested friend, and got rather confused. It's
really kinda a broad topic, and a _very_ diverse group.
As for me, well, I got into furrydom thru the costuming end; I still
know little about the rest of it...don't have a sketch book, don't buy
much art, don't even save much off the Net...can't afford the connect time
to do much MUCKing, either. What attracts _me_ is the opportunity to
interact and socialize with people who share certain character traits that
seem to exist only in other furrys.
Don't really interact with 'other kinds' of furry at all, right now.
The main excuse would be that there are so few opportunities; I can't say
I've ever actually met any other 'type' of furry that I _don't_ like. Our
paths just don't cross that often.
This happens in any large group, you know, and furrydom is certainly
getting quite large. These groups invariably split up into subgroups of
similar characteristics, which grow, and split...
_Very_ personally? I spend time with the weres (spiritual needs) the
plushophiles (physical) and the fursuiters (ego!) But I'll chat with
anyone, & there's a hug in it too, if you like. ;)
Ron <griz...@astral.magic.ca>
Lover, philosopher, artist, manticore
still looking for his true name
Timothy D Fay
Watts Martin (mi...@agii.solluna.org) wrote:
>There's nothing
>*wrong* with being snuggly and accepting, and it's arguably better than
>being ice-cold and prejudiced, but socio-sexual fanac needs to be removed
>from the definition of "furry fan."
I agree that it _needs_ to be removed, but I'm not sure that it _can_ be
at this point. Those of us with more legitimate interests in animal-
related creative works must simply deal with it as best as we can.
Species identification isn't all that important, though it would be nice
if there were more identification with animals _as_ animals, and not just
as furry humans acting out second-rate "Magnum P.I." scripts. Again, I'm
not sure if there is much anyone can do about it. But I would encourage
those creators with a more animal-centered vision and approach to keep
creating. There are still folks out there who will appreciate your work.
--
Reply to: fayx...@maroon.tc.umn.edu
-- http://www.umn.edu/nlhome/m279/fayxx001 --
"My mental facilities are TWICE what yours are -- you pea brain!"
-Percival McLeach
++++ Stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal! ++++
++++ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig ++++
++++ more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm ++++
Theodore Patri Perrotti
Christopher V. Berdoz (cde...@cabell.vcu.edu) wrote:
: >In article <4mv5lk$m...@agate.berkeley.edu>, be...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU
: >says...
: >>
: >>I was hoping I could get people's opinions on this. Which definition of
: >>"furry" do you use to describe yourself? How do you mentally categorize
: >>people who fall into the other category? How do you deal with the
: >>conflicts that arise?
: I didn't think this place was that deep.
: I mean, I just like cartoons, I'm not very partial to real
: animals at all. They're cute, but you know, I'm a human, and
: I've been raised and spoiled in a human culture, and if you've
: got a pet dog that's not tame, tryin' to love my leg or just
: jump all up on me, happy or sad, beware, because I'll hurt it.
I'm that way, too-more or less.
: I think we all identify ourselves with animals, even if it is
: just the human animal, which for many of us, it is.
: I want to ask people again myself, is anyone else in a.f.f.
: like me? Is anyone here simply an anime/disney/warners etc.
: fan with no interest 'identifying' him or herself with any
: animal? Does anyone else here feel kinda weird by being
: involved with the furry fandom because of all the controversial
: things that come along with the furry name? I hate it when my
: roommate calls me a furry. I told him not to do that. I just
: sorta like hangin' around them, that's all. We've got at least
: something in common, is what I like about it.
Well, I've never actually had anyone call me a furry, but I did get a
wierd look from from a friend of mine when I mentioned that I read this
newsgroup. That made me feel kind of uncomfortable, I must admit. I
guess it's the old "furry fan=sexual pervert" stereotype rearing its ugly
head. In my time reading this group and reading furry stories, I've come
across a few that I'd call a little warped (in an entertaining fashion),
but not perverted. Oh well, some people just don't understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's juice time!"-Sonic the Hedgehog
Theodore P. Perrotti te...@wpi.edu (all mail forwarded to here)
perrot...@asme.org
Lifetime brother of Alpha Phi Omega, Omicron Iota chapter, Worcester
Polytechnic Institute
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bryan Chaney
On 21 May 1996, Herman Miller wrote:
> In article <4npai9$n...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, fayx...@maroon.tc.umn.edu says...
> >
> >Watts Martin (mi...@agii.solluna.org) wrote:
> >
> >>There's nothing
> >>*wrong* with being snuggly and accepting, and it's arguably better than
> >>being ice-cold and prejudiced, but socio-sexual fanac needs to be removed
> >>from the definition of "furry fan."
> >
> >I agree that it _needs_ to be removed, but I'm not sure that it _can_ be
> >at this point. Those of us with more legitimate interests in animal-
> >related creative works must simply deal with it as best as we can.
>
> I don't agree that any subcategory of furry art should be singled out as
> less "legitimate" than others. Isn't there room for everyone?
I don't think it's question of whether one expression of furriness, be it
art, literature or wadeva, is more legitimate than others. I think what
*should* be done is emphasise the creative element of the fandom rather
than the sexual side. Whether you are a roleplayer or firmly convinced of
your furry heart, creativite expression is very much a part of what we, as
a fandom do. Unfortuantely, in a couple places in this thread, there is
still a asocciation in some minds that furs are into beastiality, et. al.
While this is not the time to restart that little flame war, and
furthermore I feel that no part of the fandom, erotica especially, should
be abandonded ('cause I know it ain't gonna happen and besides, I like it
]:o}), if we could somehow demonstrate, by word of mouth, that who we are
not a bunch of sicko, but rather a growing, diverse creative community, we
would be do all of us a great service.
(I wonder what FanBoy would think of furs....),
"Wilford" Bryan "Wolf" Chaney wbw...@u.washington.edu
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~wbwolf
"Say...what kind of crazy wolf are you anyways?" Minerva Mink, Animaniacs
"Some of my best friends are Warner Brothers" - Groucho Marx
A! JW22 YW++i^ WK+ DT+++i!^ PI+ BR+ SL+++r!:'^ SK+ RI+: MM+!/0^ KK---
Wilford++i P++ I+++ Ddpfaw Tow2 $+++d Vr+j++t++ IV! E59b Ee30 TBrain245
Keet
mau...@teleport.com (Richard Chandler) wrote:
>Hear Hear!
There are those people and then again there's the few of us who are
like me. Call me crazy...or what you like, I've learned to like the
names I get called for this, but I do believe I *AM* a parakeet...It's
strange...I've given up drinking out of cans, just because I think I
have a beak and can't get it around the lip of the can. You may think
that's crazy...But I am a truly devoted Furry...I have just gotten so
much into it that I would do just about anything to prove it Now just
because I don't exaclty show RL traits of a parakeet doesn't mean
anything. I always thought furry was centered around anthromorphism
(sp?). Now if it is you shouldn't need to show but a few tratis in
order to be a furry...Now and then, even in some speech, and ESPICALLY
when frightened I sound more like a parakeet than A human... Am I
crazy or does this make some sense to those few out there...You be the
judge...
Squawk! Squawk!
Keet
Kee...@wilmington.net
_Keet_ on FurryMUCK
Herman Miller
In article <4npai9$n...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, fayx...@maroon.tc.umn.edu says...
>
>Watts Martin (mi...@agii.solluna.org) wrote:
>
>>There's nothing
>>*wrong* with being snuggly and accepting, and it's arguably better than
>>being ice-cold and prejudiced, but socio-sexual fanac needs to be removed
>>from the definition of "furry fan."
>
>I agree that it _needs_ to be removed, but I'm not sure that it _can_ be
>at this point. Those of us with more legitimate interests in animal-
>related creative works must simply deal with it as best as we can.
I don't agree that any subcategory of furry art should be singled out as
less "legitimate" than others. Isn't there room for everyone?
--
Machine wrecker
> mau...@teleport.com (Richard Chandler) wrote:
>
>
> >Hear Hear!
>
> >One thing that annoys me about the "I'm an animal trapped in a human
> >body" folks is that often the say this because of traits they IMAGINE the
> >species has. If you're "yiffy" then you're probably NOT anything like a
> >RL fox. If you're hyperactive and piss on the carpet, then you probably
> >are. If you can't sit still and bite strangers who try to pet you, then
> >that's even more true.
>
I agrre with this, totally. My wife often says that if I was ever to be an
animal I would be a sloth, however I do not (as far as I know) have green
algae growing over my body, or hang upside down. I think most fans
only pick those traits which 'broadly' resemble those those possesed by
an animal they think it would be 'kewl' to be. To only have to visit
one of the werewolf newsgroups to realise that (I get the feeling I'm
going to regret typing that, but it's true!).
> >Liking cheese, bacon and peanut butter are perfectly normal human traits
> >as well. (And chocolate is poisonous to cats and dogs. Wanna give up
> >chocolate?)
>
I wish I could ! B-)
> >I'm a Furry fan. I've been one since before I knew about the fandom. I'm
> >a furry fan because I like stories, art, comics and films with critters in
> >them. I will even go so far as to say that If they can create them in RL,
> >I'd think it was really neat, because, as Ken Shardik put it, I'd really
> >like to be able to touch one. Be one? Nah, I'll settle for the
> >occasional flying dream thank you.
> >--
>
> There are those people and then again there's the few of us who are
> like me. Call me crazy...or what you like, I've learned to like the
> names I get called for this, but I do believe I *AM* a parakeet...It's
> strange...I've given up drinking out of cans, just because I think I
> have a beak and can't get it around the lip of the can. You may think
> that's crazy...But I am a truly devoted Furry...I have just gotten so
> much into it that I would do just about anything to prove it Now just
> because I don't exaclty show RL traits of a parakeet doesn't mean
> anything. I always thought furry was centered around anthromorphism
> (sp?). Now if it is you shouldn't need to show but a few tratis in
> order to be a furry...Now and then, even in some speech, and ESPICALLY
> when frightened I sound more like a parakeet than A human... Am I
> crazy or does this make some sense to those few out there...You be the
> judge...
>
>
I think this probably does make you a little crazy. But what the heck,
the world would be a far more boring place without a few unique
individuals.
--
____________...@peculiar.demon.co.uk___________________
Scientist, Nerd, Lover, Jester, Poet, Philosopher
Armchair Psychologist, Trainee Paladin and castrator of Lions
"Still crazy after all these years....."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matthew Philip Clark
In article <832660...@peculiar.demon.co.uk>,
Gre...@peculiar.demon.co.uk wrote:
> In article <4nr7ql$3...@news.wilmington.net> kee...@wilmington.net
"Keet" writes:
> > mau...@teleport.com (Richard Chandler) wrote:
> > >Hear Hear!
> > >One thing that annoys me about the "I'm an animal trapped in a human
> > >body" folks is that often the say this because of traits they IMAGINE the
> > >species has. If you're "yiffy" then you're probably NOT anything like a
> > >RL fox. If you're hyperactive and piss on the carpet, then you probably
> > >are. If you can't sit still and bite strangers who try to pet you, then
> > >that's even more true.
<snip on the good sloth example>
Well, that's a kinda human thing I guess. We seem to just to grab the traits
(real or imagined) that are most human and use those. You may not be acting to
much like a RL fox, but so what?
> > >Liking cheese, bacon and peanut butter are perfectly normal human traits
> > >as well. (And chocolate is poisonous to cats and dogs. Wanna give up
> > >chocolate?)
> I wish I could ! B-)
I could never give up my chocolate covered espesso beans! Peanut
butter, and
bacon I could probibly. Probibly not the cheese though (yeah, pizzas are icky
w/o the cheese!)
> > >I'm a Furry fan. I've been one since before I knew about the fandom. I'm
> > >a furry fan because I like stories, art, comics and films with critters in
> > >them. I will even go so far as to say that If they can create them in RL,
> > >I'd think it was really neat, because, as Ken Shardik put it, I'd really
> > >like to be able to touch one. Be one? Nah, I'll settle for the
> > >occasional flying dream thank you.
I think that seems to be a popular reason for being a furry fan. I know
until I got this school internet account, I had no idea there was a whole fandom
out there for it.
> > There are those people and then again there's the few of us who are
> > like me. Call me crazy...or what you like, I've learned to like the
> > names I get called for this, but I do believe I *AM* a parakeet...It's
> > strange...I've given up drinking out of cans, just because I think I
> > have a beak and can't get it around the lip of the can. You may think
> > that's crazy...But I am a truly devoted Furry...I have just gotten so
> > much into it that I would do just about anything to prove it Now just
> > because I don't exaclty show RL traits of a parakeet doesn't mean
> > anything. I always thought furry was centered around anthromorphism
> > (sp?). Now if it is you shouldn't need to show but a few tratis in
> > order to be a furry...Now and then, even in some speech, and ESPICALLY
> > when frightened I sound more like a parakeet than A human... Am I
> > crazy or does this make some sense to those few out there...You be the
> > judge...
> I think this probably does make you a little crazy. But what the heck,
> the world would be a far more boring place without a few unique
> individuals.
Well, I always thought sanity was overrated anyway :> And yeah, I can see
people getting a little squaky like a bird when furstrated. (and this is from
someone who purrs in his sleep, and is constantly scratching behind his ears...)
--
+-----------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Matthew Philip Clark | NiN / Magic / RPG / Furry / |
| aka Rabbit / Ranma / Usagi | B5 / Anime / Computer Phreak! |
+-----------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Sysop DiSaSteR ArEa BBS | Send Comments/Flames/etc to: |
| ANTiCAUG, BLiTZ, THS | mpc5...@kestrel.tamucc.edu |
| (512) xXx-XxXx | us...@cdsbbs.com |
|================================================================
jas...@mail.loop.com
Machine wrecker wrote:
>
> I agrre with this, totally. My wife often says that if I was ever to be an
> animal I would be a sloth, however I do not (as far as I know) have green
> algae growing over my body, or hang upside down.
I saw people at Confurence like that, though.....
Christopher V. Berdoz
>>One thing that annoys me about the "I'm an animal trapped in a human
>>body" folks is that often the say this because of traits they IMAGINE the
>>species has. If you're "yiffy" then you're probably NOT anything like a
>>RL fox. If you're hyperactive and piss on the carpet, then you probably
>>are. If you can't sit still and bite strangers who try to pet you, then
>>that's even more true.
>There are those people and then again there's the few of us who are
>like me. Call me crazy...or what you like, I've learned to like the
>names I get called for this, but I do believe I *AM* a parakeet...It's
etc. etc. etc.....
Here I am again, I found yet another non-fiction book
for everyone to read.
This one is kind of controversial, but it slightly has
something to do with this thread, I think.
Rogue Primate An Exploration of Human Domestication
by John Livingston ISBN 1570980586
book jacket:
This thoughtful and provocative book, winner of
Canada's prestigious Governor-General's Award in 1994,
challenges many conventional ideas about the complex and unique
relationship between humans and the natural world.
According to scholar John Livingstion, the first
domesticated animals was neither dog nor goat, but man. Humans
cut themselves adrift from the natural world by becoming
entirely dependent on ideas and technology. He believes we
have abandoned our innate "wildness" -- our intuitive and
instinctual selves -- to such an extent that we must depend
entirely on our own technology to relate to the natural world.
...
Do with this what you will, it might be something to pick up
next time you go to your public library. I haven't read this,
just come across it today.
CB
--
*-------------------------------------------------------*
|Chris Berdoz, furry artist | Commissions available. Ask|
|cde...@cabell.vcu.edu | for info on free samples. |
*-------------------------------------------------------*
| My catalog now available! Get your copy today! |
*-------------------------------------------------------*
ry...@delphi.com
Richard Chandler <mau...@teleport.com> writes:
>One thing that annoys me about the "I'm an animal trapped in a human
>body" folks is that often the say this because of traits they IMAGINE the
>species has. If you're "yiffy" then you're probably NOT anything like a
>RL fox. If you're hyperactive and piss on the carpet, then you probably
>are. If you can't sit still and bite strangers who try to pet you, then
>that's even more true.
archetypes. All fantasies, whether they're the Greek myths, the
Grimm fairy tales, Star Trek, or furries, are about defining
certain constants in the human condition. If these constants
fit into a certain personality profile, then we humans create
symbols around them, and animals make real good symbols.
I, for instance, can relate to the person who feels a connection
to the wolf. I'm one myself. I have a lot of trouble communicating
outside the circle of my family and friends, I consider myself
very compeditive and aggressive, and love the taste of meat above
vegetables. This doesn't mean I think I'm a wolf, just that I
RELATE to the ARCHETYPE.
For some people, one archetype is so strong that they hear no
other voice. For some, they are actually using the archetype
to develop a new, untrained personality trait. That's what the
Native American Animal Guides are all about, you know. For most
of us, though, there is more to our personality than just one
archetype. I don't play a wolf on FurryMUCK, you know, there
I'm a porcupine...
Forgive the psychiatric lesson. Let's just say that those who
are furries because they relate to a certain species are simply
trying to find out who they are. There's nothing wrong with that.
On the other hand, those of us who are just in it for the art,
or the role-playing, are learning something too. We're all
just trying to grow.
Richard Ryley - P.Q.Pine on FurryMUCK
Watts Martin
In article <4npai9$n...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, Timothy D Fay wrote:
>Watts Martin (mi...@agii.solluna.org) wrote:
>
>>There's nothing
>>*wrong* with being snuggly and accepting, and it's arguably better than
>>being ice-cold and prejudiced, but socio-sexual fanac needs to be removed
>>from the definition of "furry fan."
>
>I agree that it _needs_ to be removed, but I'm not sure that it _can_ be
>at this point. Those of us with more legitimate interests in animal-
>related creative works must simply deal with it as best as we can.
There's been some talk increasing over the last year or two about abandoning
the word "furry" to those who want it to have solely sexual connotations,
and treat it as a subset of the larger "funny animal" fandom -- and start
promoting *that* rather than solely "furry" activities. I'm a bit
uncomfortable with that idea simply because my own characters tend to be no
more funny animals than Steve Gallacci's, and I obstinately don't want to
give up the word "furry." (And not many folks adapted my word "zoomorph,"
perhaps fearing that the "zoo" prefix will now incorrectly identify them
with bestiality.)
But, the point behind the idea is valid. The folks who believe that "furry"
means you believe you're a fox trapped in the body of an ugly introverted
human and the best way to express your inherent foxness is to get together
with a bunch of other animal wannabes and hug until everyone passes out from
oxygen deprivation are the LOUDEST segment of the fan population... but
they may not be the most numerous. If furry (or whatever) fandom needs to
be recentered, the best approach may be for the "silent majority" to start
making a bit more noise.
Mark-Oliver Wolter
Bryan Chaney (wbw...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: I don't think it's question of whether one expression of furriness, be it
: art, literature or wadeva, is more legitimate than others. I think what
: *should* be done is emphasise the creative element of the fandom rather
: than the sexual side.
You know, humans are like that. If they can't understand something, they
reduce it to something they can understand.
And then condemn it on that basis.
Besides, there are many out there who jump at every slight display of
sexuality, stigmatizing the whole genre.
I can't express myself very good in english, but I think you'll get what
I mean.
--
| | | MfG MOW []-)
| | | Leobener Str.4, App.6-15, 28359 Bremen, ++49-421-210492
M O W Webpage under construction! \_ or ++49-177-2503055
/' | `\ Always logon - the bright side of life !
Herman Miller
In article <4o1qt1$4...@kohl.informatik.uni-bremen.de>,
wol...@theo.physik.uni-bremen.de says...
>
>I can't express myself very good in english, but I think you'll get what
>I mean.
Don't worry, your English is better than a lot of Americans' English (und
viel besser als mein Deutsch, ich glaube). They don't even teach our native
language very well here, much less second languages.
Herman Miller
In article <4o1oj5$hs4@moon>, mi...@agii.solluna.org says...
>
>There's been some talk increasing over the last year or two about
abandoning
>the word "furry" to those who want it to have solely sexual connotations,
>and treat it as a subset of the larger "funny animal" fandom -- and start
>promoting *that* rather than solely "furry" activities. I'm a bit
>uncomfortable with that idea simply because my own characters tend to be no
>more funny animals than Steve Gallacci's, and I obstinately don't want to
>give up the word "furry." (And not many folks adapted my word "zoomorph,"
>perhaps fearing that the "zoo" prefix will now incorrectly identify them
>with bestiality.)
I interpreted "zoomorph" to contrast with "anthropomorphic", meaning a furry
in animal shape (e.g., _Lion King_ & _Jungle Book_ characters). It does
have the distinct advantages of being shorter than "anthropomorphic" and
more readily guessable from context than "furry". We already have a word
"fur(r)otica" for the more sexually oriented furry material. On the other
hand, the term "funny animal" doesn't seem too appropriate for furry
material in general; certainly not for the likes of _Maus_!
>But, the point behind the idea is valid. The folks who believe that
"furry"
>means you believe you're a fox trapped in the body of an ugly introverted
>human and the best way to express your inherent foxness is to get together
>with a bunch of other animal wannabes and hug until everyone passes out
from
>oxygen deprivation are the LOUDEST segment of the fan population... but
>they may not be the most numerous. If furry (or whatever) fandom needs to
>be recentered, the best approach may be for the "silent majority" to start
>making a bit more noise.
I think that the more encompassing definition is the best, as long as it
doesn't get so diluted that it loses its meaning. Humans could technically
be considered furry (after all, we're the most anthropomorphic of all the
animals!), but the essential element that defines "furry" for me is a
combination of human characteristics with nonhuman animal characteristics
(such as fur, whiskers, tails, "animal-like" personalities, or all of the
above). Whether a physically-typical human with a fox-like personality
should be called "furry" is a matter of opinion, but I don't see any reason
why not (though I'll always give examples that I consider closer to the
"core" furry concept: _Robin Hood_, _The Architect of Sleep_, etc.)
Tim Gadd
hmi...@io.com (Herman Miller) wrote:
> Humans could technically
>be considered furry (after all, we're the most anthropomorphic of all the
>animals!),
Herman, this is a gem.
--
Tim Gadd
(tjg...@southcom.com.au)
Craig Hilton
cde...@cabell.vcu.edu (Christopher V. Berdoz) wrote:
>>mau...@teleport.com (Richard Chandler) wrote:
>>>Hear Hear!
>>>One thing that annoys me about the "I'm an animal trapped in a human
>>>body" folks is that often the say this because of traits they IMAGINE the
>>>species has. If you're "yiffy" then you're probably NOT anything like a
>>>RL fox. If you're hyperactive and piss on the carpet, then you probably
>>>are. If you can't sit still and bite strangers who try to pet you, then
>>>that's even more true.
>>There are those people and then again there's the few of us who are
>>like me. Call me crazy...or what you like, I've learned to like the
>>names I get called for this, but I do believe I *AM* a parakeet...It's
>etc. etc. etc.....
>Here I am again, I found yet another non-fiction book
>for everyone to read.
>This one is kind of controversial, but it slightly has
>something to do with this thread, I think.
>Rogue Primate An Exploration of Human Domestication
>by John Livingston ISBN 1570980586
Yes yes, but would you trust a book written by a seagull?
Craig Hilton
Richard Chandler
I'll have you know that I shared my office with a Mollucan Cockatoo who
could do a passable job of drinking Coke out of a can (Tended to punch
through the aluminum) and an Umbrella Cockatoo who was even better at it.
I just think you're a little deluded, but these nice strong men with the
white coats here will take care of you and put you in a cage and keep away
all those nasty mirrors you keep bashing your head against. :-)
:-)
Keet
Craig Hilton <arc...@ois.com.au> wrote:
>Yes yes, but would you trust a book written by a seagull?
>Craig Hilton
I don't know...never heard of one...I might if it's readable!
Keet
Kee...@wilmington.net
_Keet_ on FM and Furtoonia
David G. Bell
> Craig Hilton <arc...@ois.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> >Yes yes, but would you trust a book written by a seagull?
>
> >Craig Hilton
>
> I don't know...never heard of one...I might if it's readable!
I'm suddenly feeling my age here...
The _title_ of the book is "Johnathan Livingston Seagull" and it is a
first-person narrative of the joys of feathered flight.
Is it in the furry novel list? It is getting on for twenty years since
I read it...
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Timothy D Fay
David G. Bell (db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>The _title_ of the book is "Johnathan Livingston Seagull" and it is a
>first-person narrative of the joys of feathered flight.
>Is it in the furry novel list? It is getting on for twenty years since
>I read it...
It better be. :) That and WATERSHIP DOWN (and BAMBI) are my favorite
animal stories.
Watts Martin
In article <4o64ta$8...@anarchy.io.com>, Herman Miller wrote:
>I interpreted "zoomorph" to contrast with "anthropomorphic", meaning a furry
>in animal shape (e.g., _Lion King_ & _Jungle Book_ characters). It does
>have the distinct advantages of being shorter than "anthropomorphic" and
>more readily guessable from context than "furry". We already have a word
>"fur(r)otica" for the more sexually oriented furry material. On the other
>hand, the term "funny animal" doesn't seem too appropriate for furry
>material in general; certainly not for the likes of _Maus_!
That's what I meant zoomorph to mean, more or less. "Funny animal" is a
little odd when you're speaking of things that aren't funny; on the other
hand, Critters always billed itself as a funny animal book, and it opened
with a ghost story from Joshua Quagmire and the first chapter of Steve
Gallacci's "Birthright."
>I think that the more encompassing definition is the best, as long as it
>doesn't get so diluted that it loses its meaning. Humans could technically
>be considered furry (after all, we're the most anthropomorphic of all the
>animals!), but the essential element that defines "furry" for me is a
>combination of human characteristics with nonhuman animal characteristics
>(such as fur, whiskers, tails, "animal-like" personalities, or all of the
>above). Whether a physically-typical human with a fox-like personality
>should be called "furry" is a matter of opinion, but I don't see any reason
>why not (though I'll always give examples that I consider closer to the
>"core" furry concept: _Robin Hood_, _The Architect of Sleep_, etc.)
I'm definitely for the freest definition possible. There are stories I'd
like to have printed in 'Mythagoras' or 'Zoomorphica' that would have
stretched the definition a bit out of shape.
csa...@delphi.com
Re: 'Funny' animals.
You might consider the term in the context of 'highly modified'...as in
'funny car' for a fuel dragster.
C Saxon
Bryan Chaney
I can see it all now...Top Fuel Vixens, Nitro Burning Bunnies, Ground
Pounding Bears.....
as for wolves...?, let's just say I stay *out* of the fast lane...,
PeterCat
Recently in alt.fan.furry,
db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk wrote:
>The _title_ of the book is "Johnathan Livingston Seagull" and it is a
>first-person narrative of the joys of feathered flight.
>
>Is it in the furry novel list? It is getting on for twenty years since
>I read it...
It's not in the novels list, but then it seem like it's been about twenty
years since Dan Lorey updated the list...
The author of "Jonathan," Richard Bach, is somewhat of a favorite amongst
New Age folk, so many of his books are still in print. Check out some of his
other books; not furry, but worthwhile reading: "Illusions," which explores
many of the same themes as "Jonathan" except from an adult-oriented (instead
of storybook) point of view; and "The Bridge Across Forever," which
describes how he found his soulmate (and I think, coined that term),
actress/producer/goddess Leslie Parrish, who guest-starred in the classic
"Star Trek" episode "Who Mourns For Adonis."
--
The Furry InfoPage! http://web.syr.edu/~pjkappes/furry/
pjka...@mailbox.syr.edu (PeterCat) Rhal on FurryMUCK (come cuddle!)
Mark-Oliver Wolter
I know it, and I'm 23, so what?
: The _title_ of the book is "Johnathan Livingston Seagull" and it is a
: first-person narrative of the joys of feathered flight.
: Is it in the furry novel list? It is getting on for twenty years since
: I read it...
The german translation is "Die Möwe Jonathan".
I once read it in reader's digest. But I think that was a shortened version ...
Richard J. Bartrop
On 28 May 1996, Watts Martin wrote:
> In article <4o64ta$8...@anarchy.io.com>, Herman Miller wrote:
>
> >I interpreted "zoomorph" to contrast with "anthropomorphic", meaning a furry
> >in animal shape (e.g., _Lion King_ & _Jungle Book_ characters). It does
> >have the distinct advantages of being shorter than "anthropomorphic" and
> >more readily guessable from context than "furry". We already have a word
> >"fur(r)otica" for the more sexually oriented furry material. On the other
> >hand, the term "funny animal" doesn't seem too appropriate for furry
> >material in general; certainly not for the likes of _Maus_!
Ultimately, does it really matter? How many 'comic' books are
really that comical? Personally, I would prefer 'cartoon', just because
its original derivation is closer to what we do. (Cartoon, derives from
the Italian word 'cartone' originally meaning the preparatory drawings
that would be used to transfer the image to the surface to be painted.
These 'cartoons' would be exhibited, and it was from a humorous drawing
lampooning some of these that helped give it its modern definition). Of
course 'cartoon' now means 'funny', so we're pretty much stuck with the
present definitions, and nobody seems to mind much.
> That's what I meant zoomorph to mean, more or less. "Funny animal" is a
> little odd when you're speaking of things that aren't funny; on the other
> hand, Critters always billed itself as a funny animal book, and it opened
> with a ghost story from Joshua Quagmire and the first chapter of Steve
> Gallacci's "Birthright."
>
> I'm definitely for the freest definition possible. There are stories I'd
> like to have printed in 'Mythagoras' or 'Zoomorphica' that would have
> stretched the definition a bit out of shape.
>
As for any unsavoury conotations that might be associated with
'zoomorph', personally, the first thing that I think of is, well, a place
where you can see a lot of animals, and I suspect that's what most people
think. After all people don't have a problem with 'homogenized' milk :).
Personally, i don't think it really matters what you call it, though
something shorter that "Anthropomorphics" would be nice. What really
matters is what sort of work you do, because ultimately that' really
what's going to define what this is all about.
Richard Bartrop
writer/artist. "Zaibatsu Tears"
Grey on FurryMUCK, TigerMUCK
Richard Chandler
In article <Pine.OSF.3.92a.96052...@becker1.u.washington.edu>,
Bryan Chaney <wbw...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>I can see it all now...Top Fuel Vixens, Nitro Burning Bunnies, Ground
>Pounding Bears.....
SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY! It's a Monster Buck rally at Portland Meadows!
See Bigfoot driving Bob Chandler (No realation)!
--
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog... but they can tell right
off the bat if you're an idiot! -- Me
http://www.teleport.com/~mauser/ Gallery Web Page
"Yeah, I've got ADD, wanna make something of.... oooh, cool. Look!"
Mark Freid
On 29 May 1996 22:48:25 -0700, mau...@teleport.com (Richard Chandler)
wrote:
>In article <Pine.OSF.3.92a.96052...@becker1.u.washington.edu>,
>Bryan Chaney <wbw...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>>I can see it all now...Top Fuel Vixens, Nitro Burning Bunnies, Ground
>>Pounding Bears.....
>
>SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY! It's a Monster Buck rally at Portland Meadows!
>See Bigfoot driving Bob Chandler (No realation)!
>
Funny burning Nitrocoons! (only if Avi Melman is racing)
-Mark
=============================================
Mark Freid ("Canuss") Wolf, Cartoonist, Loony
=============================================
Web: http://www.av.qnet.com/~canuss
>----(now Lynx-friendly!)----<
Email: can...@qnet.com
"Canuss" on GEnie's Beastie Board & FurryMUCK!
==============================================
Mark-Oliver Wolter
Timothy D Fay (fayx...@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: (and BAMBI) are my favorite
: animal stories.
Not PERRI? (also from Felix Salten)
Bill Marcum
In article <4oftd4$64p@moon>, Watts Martin <mi...@agii.solluna.org> wrote:
>hand, Critters always billed itself as a funny animal book, and it opened
>with a ghost story from Joshua Quagmire and the first chapter of Steve
>Gallacci's "Birthright."
>
turns out I was thinking about the ghost story in Furrlough #1. Both of
those are memorable in their own ways.
--
Bill Marcum bma...@iglou.com
On 22 July, 1996, at 6:00 pm GMT, everyone in the world
just START HUMMING. Those who don't know will freak.
Synicism
Theodore P. Perrotti te...@wpi.edu (all mail forwarded to here) wrote:
Well, I've never actually had anyone call me a furry, but I did get a
wierd look from from a friend of mine when I mentioned that I read this
newsgroup. That made me feel kind of uncomfortable, I must admit. I
guess it's the old "furry fan=sexual pervert" stereotype rearing its ugly
head. In my time reading this group and reading furry stories, I've come
across a few that I'd call a little warped (in an entertaining fashion),
but not perverted. Oh well, some people just don't understand.
**************************************************************************
********************
Finally! Well, to answer you guys, the answer is yes. While I like
animals, especially canines, and I'm particularly fond of foxes, I can't
say I identify with foxes or think like a fox (well, not a real one,
perhaps, but I think everyone has bouts of deviousness). I've been called
a "furry" before... mostly due to the ever growing collection of artwork
decorating my living space in school and cluttering up my hard drive, but
it's because I love the artwork.
I think "normal" people think ANYONE with a funny nickname is a deviant of
SOME kind or another. People who are fans of things furry are no
different.
Timothy D Fay
Mark-Oliver Wolter (wol...@theo.physik.uni-bremen.de) wrote:
>Timothy D Fay (fayx...@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
>: (and BAMBI) are my favorite
>: animal stories.
>Not PERRI? (also from Felix Salten)
PERRI is a good book. And while Bambi makes a cameo appearance, it isn't
quite up to the original. :)
DLNorton@3RD|\/|iL
On 2 Jun 1996, Synicism wrote:
> Theodore P. Perrotti te...@wpi.edu (all mail forwarded to here) wrote:
>
>
> Well, I've never actually had anyone call me a furry, but I did get a
> wierd look from from a friend of mine when I mentioned that I read this
> newsgroup. That made me feel kind of uncomfortable, I must admit. I
> guess it's the old "furry fan=sexual pervert" stereotype rearing its ugly
> head. In my time reading this group and reading furry stories, I've come
> across a few that I'd call a little warped (in an entertaining fashion),
> but not perverted. Oh well, some people just don't understand.
I had a friend or two call me a "furry" ..but I looked at them, and then
ignored them for about 6 months, only then did they realize that I'm a
cartoonist, not a furry...I like to draw funny
animals/anthropomorphics..but I'm no furry...was Lewis Carroll ever called
a "furry" in his day..? A pedophile maybe, but never a furry...
> Finally! Well, to answer you guys, the answer is yes. While I like
> animals, especially canines, and I'm particularly fond of foxes, I can't
> say I identify with foxes or think like a fox (well, not a real one,
> perhaps, but I think everyone has bouts of deviousness). I've been called
> a "furry" before... mostly due to the ever growing collection of artwork
> decorating my living space in school and cluttering up my hard drive, but
> it's because I love the artwork.
>
> I think "normal" people think ANYONE with a funny nickname is a deviant of
> SOME kind or another. People who are fans of things furry are no
> different.
You're so right... I don't collect a lot of "furry" paraphenalia, but I
do have some here and there. I don't identify with any animal...`cept
maybe a "slug" because I like to sleep a lot, but that's besides the point.
..You could call me an "Anime nut" ...I have more anime than furry
stuff..but I prefer to talk and lurk through here than any of the anime
newsgroups..why? Who knows...?
-Dean L. Norton
shad...@annex.com