The Letter
Gabriel Gentile
Mark,
This letter is in regards to a serious problem that we encountered at
ConFurence 8. I direct this letter at _you_ personally because I assume you
are still in _charge_ and responsible for the convention in general. I say I
_assume_ because certain matters have made me question your authority
regarding the running of this con. Mark, pay very close attention to what
you're reading. I do not want any misunderstandings. It is well known that
you have been on the Internet conversing with members of alternative
lifestyles and encouraging their involvement with the convention. I have
absolutely NO problem with them or their involvement. I DO however question
any one or group that you willingly invite to participate in the convention
that have absolutely no interest or appreciation of the premise of the
convention, i.e. the love of anthropomorphics of all sorts which was to be,
I believe, the original idea for the con, unless I am mistaken. I bring
this up because of certain incidents we encountered at the convention. On
Thursday, the day of my arrival, on our way to get something to eat at the
hotel coffee shop, we watched two young men deliberately waiting for what we
saw to be "mundanes" see them, and proceed to deep-throat each other in a
rather blatant manner in the hotel lobby. Obviously getting a kick out of
offending these people. This went on for the period of time it took us to
get across the lobby and into the coffee shop. They were still there when we
left. This behavior is immature, disgusting and we assume has nothing to do
with the convention. This would have offended me and my group no matter
whether those making the display were homosexual, hetersexual, bisexual, or
otherwise! This behaviour is offensive _any_time and _any_where. This
little game of "freak the normals" should be policed by con security.
Science Fiction/Fantasy conventions have a hard enough time getting
"outsiders" to take them seriously. Besides that, what the hell was one of
your security doing walking around in DRAG? What's that got to do with the
so-called premise of the convention along with not aiding in the confidence
people would be feeling in approaching security? That was very immature and
_unprofessional_! Speaking of unprofessional security, both Kishma and
Tanmin went up to the Art Show at 7:30am on Friday. Do you know what they
found? The artshow was completely open and unsupervised. Empty! No one was
there! Had they been less than honest people, they could have filled one of
the convenient boxes full of whatever artwork they wanted and walked out.
With NO ONE being the wiser. Instead, they planted themselves, and waited
for "security" to arrive, while telling others who arrives before Security
that the room was not open yet. (We were told that Jazmyn was the last one
to lock up ... and she had the wrong door locked!) This was not the only
experience we encountered. There was a situation in an elevator Saturday
evening, when I was taking some important guests back to my room for
business. We were discussing said business in the elevator on our way up to
the room when one of the gentlement with me leaned back against the wall, as
most people do, when he found his side and pants covered in SEMEN! Some
diseased bottom-feeder couldn't contain himself and squirted all over the
wall. This goes way beyond disgusting and immature. There are other
situations which I'll go into later, but at this point - in case you're
wondering why I'm bringing this to your attention again - it's YOUR con as
you are so want to make everyone aware of. Which means shit like this is
your responsibility . My question is... when did you decide to make
this convention something other than anthropomorphic? What are you going to
do about this "lunatic fringe" that is seeping into the convention? And
understand this, I don't care whether they're alternative lifestlyists or
otherwise or if they make love to their pets, or any other "preference."
That's not what I'm addressing. What are you going to do about the people
who aren't interested in attending this convention for its intended
purposes? We actually had people look at myself when I was dressed as Eeon,
Kishmas as Tashta, and Tanamin as Ingo, and ask "That are the weirdos doing
here in costume?" We overheard others, on more than one occasion ask,
"What's a furry?" and receive the answer, "I don't know. I'm just here for
the parties and sex." What are you going to do about these same people who
are going about methodically ruining the reputations of the alternative
lifestylists as well? And, if you don't think there's a problem with this,
you're not looking in the right places. Get your head out of your ass and
clean up your fucking act. I'm not the only one that's pissed about this.
Maybe you don't care. You seem to have gradually drifted over the years into
a fog of self-gratification. Everytime I and others have tried to
communicate with you on a professional or otherwise level, you never
respond. Do you treat your GoH's the same? Unless it is over the Internet
you do not respond, even when professionals I've known -at the very least-
enclose a SASE for you. We've been very angry at times over your lack of
professionalism in the way that you deal with people. Have you noticed,
Mark, how fewer and fewer familiar faces are showing up every year? Probably
not. And I do mean outside your own circle. This convention used to draw
everybody you and I knew in fandom because of its uniqueness. In the last
few years I've watched fewer and fewer people show up. I wondered about
that. I wondered about the causes. I thought, "Surely it's not because of
Mark and the way he's running the con?" Last year we
saw a great number of "strange young men" again, blatantly embarrassing
everyone around them and "oblivious to what they were causing". Or so it
seemed. Now, in case we were overreacting to circumstance, I and my group
questioned others at the con. "Old Timers" who've been attending conventions
for a good ten years or more, like ourselves. Surprise! EVERYBODY we talked
to not only felt as angry as we did at what happened to us, but recounted
myriad incidents that happened to themselves as well. And many decided that
they were not coming back. Now, Mark, I and my household are extremely
open-minded. I myself being permanently involved in a well working three-way
relationship: Kishma and Tanamin, my two mates, both being bisexual, and I
myself being betero. (I have declared myself heterosexual, having
experienced male sex and found absolutely no interest in it personally. But,
as I said before, I am not opposed to it.)
Now this was not all that led to pissing me off. What really clenched it was
our attempt at being involved in the Pet Auction. Gee, Mark, innocent
na=EFve us. We thought it was going to be a PET Auction. As in, people in
costumes and anthropomorphically inclined, adopting others of similar
interests for the benefit of charity. We thought it would be fun. Lo and
behold our surprise! We found it was nothing more than a "queer auction."
Kishma offered to do a lap dance as Tashta, her zebra dancer, to the highest
bidder. If she was offereing this to a furry audience, she probably would
have brought the house down. Instead, she got crickets!!! Know what that
means, Mark? She went for $28. Subtract the $10 WE spent on the Cabaret
ticket, totals $18. I don't even want to tell you what happened with Eeon,
who's been known in dandom a lot longer than Tashta. And yet, some little
cretin in tight black shorts, offering veiled sex, went for $180. In fact,
ALL those offering "extras at the discretion of the pet" sold for over $40.
Mark, all of this came off as a thinly disguised excuse for pandering.
You're lucky it wasn't shut down. And we DO mean this seriously, Mark. It's
not just sour grapes: EVERY furry costume that was bid on went for a low
bid. Except Cataroo. .. and that's the ONLY one: the two gentlemen who bid
on her had entered and left with her. The only women other than Tashta who
participated went for $12 and $8, respectively. And one of that was a pair
of round cuties who were basically offering a rather charming "spanking"
show. They got crickets. All the women did! All the anthropomorphics did!
Anyone who did not offer or imply sexual favours were bid on very poorly or
not at all. Now what does this lead you to believe, Mark? Who do you think
was dominating the audience, Mark? I think you should really address some
considerations concerning your security as well, in these matters. There
were camera teams prowling these areas who we discovered were NOT there for
the convention's health: but, evidently doing expose`s casting furrydom in a
negative light and boy did they have tons of ammunition _this_ time! The
nonsense we've seen happen at THIS convention is not helping the situation
one bit. You're responsible, Mark. I'd get your act together or get some
people to help you who CAN, before you find yourself and your convention
facing some very serious consequences. As a result of all this crap,
needless to say, you won't be seeing us next year, or a number of others -
old-timers and new people alike... from what we were given to understand.
Should this trend continue, we do not want to be involved, and will be
attending other conventions, rather than wasting our time, money and
emotions on this one. Understand, Mark, this used to be our _favorite_
convention! We'd make it to THIS one even if we didn't make it to any
other! In the past, it's been a wonderful way to re-energize our creative
energies: but, Mark, if you're going to change the convention to some other
venue then stop trying to hide what you're doing under the guise of
ConFurence. If you feel the need to run an Alternative Lifestyle convention,
then why don't you do that instead of changing ConFurence into it? It's
ruining it for us, and others. And for those who are not interested in the
alternative lifestyle aspect. It also piss us off that you invite this
opening on the 'net and yet make no mention of this "change" in
_InFurNation_. This letter has been posted to you; but also --because it's
so damned hard to get you to respond to a letter-- at the suggestion of our
friends, we are also having this letter posted on alt.fan.furry, where it is
more likely that you will notice it - or at least you'll have a harder time
ignoring it. And if YOU ignore it, rest assured others will not. I want your
response, Mark. This isn't just a bitch-fest: we all feel this way. As for
_myself_, I want to deal with you in person, Mark. You know where to find
me. You know how to reach me. Do it.
By the way, Mark, the reason I did not approach you at the convention was
that - in the mood I was in - I might have gotten myself thrown into jail. I
saw too many of my friends get hurt. Figure it out.
Ed Kline
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We're right
You're wrong
You know it
Atara
<B8D27E94.13A83%spook...@earthlink.net>:
>This letter is in regards to a serious problem that we encountered at
>ConFurence 8.
Hmm k.
Confurence 8 was five years ago.
Confurence - nor any other con - has had a "pet auction" ala Merlino in
years.
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make, other than the fact
that you know how to use Google's search engine.
--
Atara
"Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus."
http://www.FurNation.com/Atara/
***What doesn't fit in my email addy? NADA.***
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
<spook...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Mark,
>
> This letter is in regards to a serious problem that we encountered at
> ConFurence 8.
And the point of bringing up this bit of history was?
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
Free the Memes.
Glen Wooten
>
> Mark,
>
> This letter is in regards to a serious problem that we encountered at
> ConFurence 8. I direct this letter at _you_ personally because I assume you
> are still in _charge_ and responsible for the convention in general. I say I
Gabriel: what are you doing? What is the point of this? Why bring up
something that was over and dealt with 4 years ago? The convention is
under a totally new administration now - what happened at CF8 has not
happened at subsequent conventions. Why dredge up ancient history?
--
Glen Wooten
_________________________________________________________
| primary: jag...@rexx.com | secondary: leo...@aol.com |
_________________________________________________________
| Terrie's web page: http://www.rexx.com/~jaguar |
_________________________________________________________
Cerulean
I had a vague idea, but, you see, I never went to Confurence... Your
vivid description, Gabe, and your choice of words, makes it clear to
me that CF8 was _the_ main catalyst for the great rift in furry. It
prompted you to start using the word "lifestyler" in a way that had
nothing to do with alt.lifestyle.furry.
In turn, as the people interested in discussing the personal
significance of their attraction to furry ideas struggled to get out
from under this definition that had ambushed them, everything but the
love of money became a shameful reason to be in furry fandom, out of
association with "lifestyle." It's a misunderstanding that people will
just not LET GO OF no matter how many times it's explained.
FICTION: a.l.f is full of the same people who get off on going around
half-naked and freaking people out at conventions.
FACT: a.l.f has attracted clergy, people involved in animal rescue
programs, and some of your favorite writers. In contrast, for example,
Silfur has posted at most twice in its entire history, and then only
to promote events. The closest a.l.f gets to the stereotype is the
somewhat greater frequency of people in polyamorous relationships
(like your own, Gabe). Oh yeah, and some like to wear tails, shock
horror scandal consternation.
And so, fandom has split, not into "lifestylers" and "fandom," as most
see it. The latter faction is instead what I am beginning to call
"vendordom," and there are an equal proportion of _fans_ all through
the spectrum. Vendordom is: "No, I don't find fur attractive. No, I
don't have a totem, not even a favorite animal, and I wouldn't be so
_indiscrete_ as to tell you if I did. I'm not one of them! I don't
like this stuff, but the customers are making me draw it! It's the
only way to make money. How I hate my customers for being so
interested in animal-people that I must produce these unnatural
things. Seriously, I'm not one of them! I'm only in it for the money,
and I'm tired of all these leeches coming in who are only here to
enjoy themselves. I'm trying to run a business!"
Furry fandom is all messed up, a third of us villified, a third of us
repressed, and the remainder of people who just casually like this
stuff and don't feel the need to consider which side they might fall
on, or even to run and hide their interests from the world, are under
increasing pressure to do both like the rest of us have. Yes, I think
we ALL have a reason to be angry at Mark.
The current phase? The ultra-reactionaries are now expatriates taking
pot shots at furry from the outside. For instance, we now learn that
Something Awful did not pick up furry-bashing from MTV or Vanity Fair,
but from the ever-bitter Charla "Don't call me Squee anymore" Trotman.
The next phase? Gods only know. It's been much more peaceful as of
late, which gives me some kind of hope.
--
___vvz /( Cerulean = Kevin Pease http://cerulean.st/
<__,` Z / ( DC2.~D GmAL~W-R+++Ac~J+S+Fr++IH$M-V+++Cbl,spu
`~~~) )Z) ( FDDmp4adwsA+++$C+D+HM+P-RT+++WZSm#
/ (7 ( 77epueJ - ,,iS37q33M awos +o6 I,,
ilr
"Gabriel Gentile" <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B8D27E94.13A83%spook...@earthlink.net...
>
>
Gabe... What the heck is the poi.....
Heh, Psyche, I think we've already covered that bit ;)
I'm just gonna say I hope you pull this out of your ass
without it being just another troll for stuff that's not
going to have a real effect on people other-than-pissed-off.
Oh yeah, and Cerulean, it appears Gabe has nothing to do
with the Writing of this Letter, we all know he's not that
well restrained.(sorta like a Sexmaniac at a Con, eh?)
-Ilr
mhirtes
Glen Wooten wrote:
>
> Gabriel Gentile <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > This letter is in regards to a serious problem that we encountered at
> > ConFurence 8. I direct this letter at _you_ personally because I assume you
> > are still in _charge_ and responsible for the convention in general. I say I
>
> Gabriel: what are you doing? What is the point of this? Why bring up
> something that was over and dealt with 4 years ago?
What? You mean you really can't see what is so very obvious?
IMO (as I see it), the "point" is that furry fandom is *still* being
plagued with the same self-inflicted bad kharma as it was years ago. And
until it finally gets up off it's fat lazy ass and does something about
the "Miami Ponys" and Kevin Duanes, the Castros are gonna keep coming
out of the woodwork, exposing every flaw and freakiness they can on film/video.
Just like flies know where a rotting corpse is because of the putrid
stench nearby, the media types will continue to want to interview
furries & go to furry cons. Finding enough freaks to create a quick
money-making shlockumentary is like shooting fish in a barrel.
mhirtes
Cerulean wrote:
>
> I must say, this puts the whole quagmire into very sharp perspective.
> I had a vague idea, but, you see, I never went to Confurence... Your
> vivid description, Gabe, and your choice of words, makes it clear to
> me that CF8 was _the_ main catalyst for the great rift in furry. It
> prompted you to start using the word "lifestyler" in a way that had
> nothing to do with alt.lifestyle.furry.
No, that was actually the words of Ed (aka Eon from the Red Shetland
comix) Kline, who was one of Mark Merlino's staunchest allies (until
Mark eventually got too disturbing for even Ed to tolerate any longer).
>
> FACT: a.l.f has attracted clergy,
Mostly from the parishes around Boston, right?
Cerulean
>No, that was actually the words of Ed (aka Eon from the Red Shetland
>comix) Kline, who was one of Mark Merlino's staunchest allies (until
>Mark eventually got too disturbing for even Ed to tolerate any longer).
Make it a generalized "you" then. Point still stands.
Cerulean
>Oh yeah, and Cerulean, it appears Gabe has nothing to do
>with the Writing of this Letter, we all know he's not that
>well restrained.(sorta like a Sexmaniac at a Con, eh?)
Yeah, I don't know how I missed the signature. So I'm guessing Gabe's
addition is the "We're Right, You're Wrong, You Know It" at the end,
which is more in character, and puts me in mind of the "God Said It, I
Believe It, That Settles It" bumper sticker. Pointing vaguely at a
massive block of text and saying, "See, it's right there! It says that
I'm right about everything, plain as day."
Still, I'm glad it was posted. Sorry if this starts any rumors about
you in a menage a trois, Gabe... That should have tipped me off,
really.
Sean Wilkinson
"Gabriel Gentile" <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B8D27E94.13A83%spook...@earthlink.net...
<snip>
1997 just called; they want their post back.
- Sean
mhirtes
Not until 2002 is through keeping it alive, it won't.
Baloo Ursidae
> That was very immature and _unprofessional_!
PKB! I'm sure a letter written in a more professional manner, like
being a bit more timely, using proper punctiation and grammar, and
espeically breaking it down into paragraphs and avoiding personal
attacks and profanity, probably would have gotten your point across much
more clearly and more likely to have been taken seriously. I would be
surprised if Confurence management took your "letter" as little more
than another anonymous rant.
--
Baloo
Baloo Ursidae
> Oh yeah, and Cerulean, it appears Gabe has nothing to do
> with the Writing of this Letter, we all know he's not that
> well restrained.(sorta like a Sexmaniac at a Con, eh?)
Yeah, both leave undesirable residue, just one uses an elevator wall and
the other wipes it off on the net. Nobody needs either.
--
Baloo
Gabriel Gentile
letter, so I figured I'd just cut and paste it on the NG to save them some
headaches.
Blackberry
>[...]
Thanks for posting that, Gabriel.
I did go to the old Confurence once, CF9, and there was some pretty open stuff
going on, but it was my first furry event, and I was too focused on the fursuits
and art to notice much of it.
Of course, we all know what the former Confurence staff's policies eventually
did bring -- Confurence rotted away from the inside like the Roman Empire, and
Darrel Exline and The Confurence Group stepped up to bring the convention back
to respectability.
As for Mr. Kline, he does sort of make his bias obvious -- first, he says that
he has no problems with homosexuals or anyone else; then, later, when discussing
the auction, he says that he attended looking for an auction and instead found
"a queer auction". I don't doubt that it may have been attended mostly by gay
bidders and pets, but still, that's not something that someone says who has *no*
issues with gays.
And I will personally contribute to a fund to buy this guy some paragraph
breaks.
--------------------
"Death needs time for what it kills to grow in, for Ah Pook's
sweet sake, you stupid, vulgar, greedy, ugly American death-sucker."
-- William S. Burroughs, "Ah Pook the Destroyer"
Blackberry
>
>spook...@earthlink.net (Gabriel Gentile) wrote in
><B8D27E94.13A83%spook...@earthlink.net>:
>
>>This letter is in regards to a serious problem that we encountered at
>>ConFurence 8.
>
>Hmm k.
>
>Confurence 8 was five years ago.
>
>Confurence - nor any other con - has had a "pet auction" ala Merlino in
>years.
>
>I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make, other than the fact
>that you know how to use Google's search engine.
I think that was my fault; I asked about the letter... though someone did post a
Google archive link which was good enough for me.
Blackberry
>
>What? You mean you really can't see what is so very obvious?
>
>IMO (as I see it), the "point" is that furry fandom is *still* being
>plagued with the same self-inflicted bad kharma as it was years ago. And
>until it finally gets up off it's fat lazy ass and does something about
>the "Miami Ponys" and Kevin Duanes, the Castros are gonna keep coming
>out of the woodwork, exposing every flaw and freakiness they can on film/video.
What do you recommend is the "something" that "we" do about them? And why is it
you that gets to decide what is done about people and to whom it's done?
AJL
L. Exline, the *current* chair of ConFurence. Part of this message is
to clear up some incomplete (or inaccurate) facts from Ed Kline's
letter, and part of this is to reassure people that in the 5 years that
have past since CF8, a lot has changed.
---
Gabriel Gentile quoted Ed Kline's message from early 1997:
> Besides that, what the hell was one of
> your security doing walking around in DRAG? What's that got to do with the
> so-called premise of the convention along with not aiding in the confidence
> people would be feeling in approaching security?
I, myself, was on the Security staff for the first time that year
(having been drafter after unofficially helping Security in a pinch the
year before) and I clearly remember this person (but can't recall his
name). If I recall correctly, this was his first year at the
convention, but since he was a friend of someone who was on Security
already, he was assigned to the same department when he volunteered.
On Thursday and Friday at the con, he was dressed normally, and was a
quite likeable fellow. I spent one or two shifts as a door guard with
him. On Saturday aternoon, he showed up in full drag... I didn't even
recognize him until he spoke to me! What a hoot. He wasn't on shift,
though so I had fun talking about his outfit with him. He had a
Security shift that evening, but had forgotten the time. We both had to
work on keeping the Cabaret line in order. Being told on short notice
that he needed to help with the line, he simply donned an orange
Security shirt over his dress, tied it up in the front, and he as then
identifiable enough to help with security.
On the surface, at the time, this seemed very tame, and entertaining to
boot... however, in retrospect, as an official representative of
Security his actions were unprofessional.
That mistake has been learned from and will not be repeated. It's these
kinds of mistakes, that when analyzed and understood, make us into a
better convention as time goes on.
> There was a situation in an elevator Saturday
> evening, when I was taking some important guests back to my room for
> business. We were discussing said business in the elevator on our way up to
> the room when one of the gentlement with me leaned back against the wall, as
> most people do, when he found his side and pants covered in SEMEN!
For the record we caught the person who was smearing mayonnaise packets
on the elevator walls and took care of it. After a few minutes exposed
to the air, mayonaise does indeed look like that other product, but it
is a long running myth that this actvity ever actually happened in the
CF hotel elevator. I've also heard it retold as a couple having sex
waiting for the elevator... another myth.
> "Old Timers" who've been attending conventions
> for a good ten years or more, like ourselves. Surprise! EVERYBODY we talked
> to not only felt as angry as we did at what happened to us, but recounted
> myriad incidents that happened to themselves as well. And many decided that
> they were not coming back.
I've slowly, but surely, been spending the last three years bringing the
convention's social atmosphere back to a breathable level for all. If I
hadn't seen a siginificant change from post-CF8 and pre-CF9 staff
attitudes, I might have bailed out myself, but there was already a
movement from within CF's staff to keep the problems from CF8 from being
repeated.
Confurence now has plenty of room for fursuiters, lifestylers, artists,
writers, gamers, and fans of all forms of anthropomorphic media. I've
seen several "Old Timers" come back to the convention who had left after
CF7, 8, or 9, and that makes me confident that all is not lost. Quick
example, after hearig mostly favorable reports about CF11 (the first
year The ConFurence Group was in charge) Monika Livingstone agreed to be
CF12's Guest of Honor. She and her husband had a great time at last
year's convention, and mentioned recently that they are looking forward
to CF2002 in a few weeks. Olt-timer Melody "Auntie Rat" Rondeau
accompanied Monika to CF12 and reported that she had fun as well.
> this used to be our _favorite_
> convention! We'd make it to THIS one even if we didn't make it to any
> other! In the past, it's been a wonderful way to re-energize our creative
> energies
Ed, I'd like to see the day that Kishma, Tanamin, and you will find the
time to attend ConFurence again. I'd certainly love to have you there,
and I beleive that the convention's atmosphere is now at a comfort level
reminiscent of CF5 or CF6. About one-third of my staff are people that
have been brought into this fandom in the last 4 years, a good number of
which are seasoned Sci-Fi fen from the LASFS. Many of the same people
are still on staff as before, but they have learned from mistakes of the
past and know what to look out for.
> Mark, if you're going to change the convention to some other
> venue then stop trying to hide what you're doing under the guise of
> ConFurence. If you feel the need to run an Alternative Lifestyle convention,
> then why don't you do that instead of changing ConFurence into it?
I agree wholeheartedly that if a person wants to organize an alternative
lifestyle convention, then that is what they need to do. In fact, a
friend of mine here in San Diego is involved in organizing GayLaxicon
2004, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if I get drafted to help at
that con (even though I am heterosexual, fandom conventions are all
about having fun). A coworker of mine is involved in the Gay Retired
Military Association and we talk about convention organizing all the
time. The point is, holding the right convention for the right reasons
brings in the most fun. ConFurence is no more a alternative lifestyle
convention than it is a white male convention... but even though there
are going to be people there that fit that description, the convention
as run under The ConFurence Group is not based on it. The convention is
primarily about the fandom, and anyone (be they male, female, or other)
is welcome to attend as long as they are attending to be involved in the
fandom. That's what this convention is all about.
Darrel L. Exline
Director, The ConFurence Group
Chairman, ConFurence 2002: "Furry Noir"
Roadrodent
Glen Wooten <jag...@rexx.com> wrote in message
news:a8jbci$130r$1...@velox.critter.net...
> Gabriel Gentile <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > This letter is in regards to a serious problem that we encountered at
> > ConFurence 8. I direct this letter at _you_ personally because I assume
you
> > are still in _charge_ and responsible for the convention in general. I
say I
>
> Gabriel: what are you doing? What is the point of this? Why bring up
> something that was over and dealt with 4 years ago? The convention is
> under a totally new administration now - what happened at CF8 has not
> happened at subsequent conventions. Why dredge up ancient history?
>
> --
> Glen Wooten
No Crap!! What IS the point of this???? The ONLY reason I can see for
this to be here is to generate trouble for the present day CF. Now, WHY
would Gabriel want to do that?!
Treerat
Roadrodent
Excuse me, but WHERE on this or any other NG was anyone asking about
this?
Treerat.
mhirtes
The point was not to generate trouble for the current CF regime
(Darell's been doing a lot of good with his convention), but furry
fandom itself still needs a good scrubbin'.
mhirtes
Blackberry wrote:
>
>
> As for Mr. Kline, he does sort of make his bias obvious -- first, he says that
> he has no problems with homosexuals or anyone else; then, later, when discussing
> the auction, he says that he attended looking for an auction and instead found
> "a queer auction".
Let's face it......
There are gay people..........
......and then there are QUEERS!!
The difference is plain to see, like sirloin steak and rancid roadkill.
Both are dead meat, but which one whould YOU want on your dinner plate?)
(all vegans who make any smartass rebutals like 'Neither" should report
to the Pummeling Department immediately)
mhirtes
Blackberry wrote:
>
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 01:12:13 -0600, mhirtes wrote:
> >
> >What? You mean you really can't see what is so very obvious?
> >
> >IMO (as I see it), the "point" is that furry fandom is *still* being
> >plagued with the same self-inflicted bad kharma as it was years ago. And
> >until it finally gets up off it's fat lazy ass and does something about
> >the "Miami Ponys" and Kevin Duanes, the Castros are gonna keep coming
> >out of the woodwork, exposing every flaw and freakiness they can on film/video.
>
> What do you recommend is the "something" that "we" do about them? And why is it
> you that gets to decide what is done about people and to whom it's done?
>
I already know you're a diseased FAG-lover, Dingleberry (there are gay
people, and then there are FAGS!). Go screw yourself (and we know you
would if you could).
(and yes, *I* might as well decide since none of you fucks will get off
your asses and do anything yourselves. Thanks for the recommendation.)
artist
> In article <B8D27E94.13A83%spook...@earthlink.net>, Gabriel Gentile
> <spook...@earthlink.net> repeated old news:
>
>> We were discussing said business in the elevator on our way up to
>> the room when one of the gentlement with me leaned back against the
>> wall, as most people do, when he found his side and pants covered in
>> SEMEN! Some diseased bottom-feeder couldn't contain himself and
>> squirted all over the wall.
>
> Heh, if I recall correctly, that was Mayo.
>
> I joked with a person some months later that the perpetrator should
> have used catsup, that way someone would have thought someone was
> killed in the elevator instead :)
>
> (You see, I'd seen the Mayo trick long before CF, it's a Jr. High
> level prank. The reason it works so well is that people want to think
> it's something more than it is.)
Now your just giving me ideas! ;)
--
ICQ UIN# 106922763
AIM: GCCFurryBoy
Yahoo!Messenger: Okime_Kun
mell...@yahoo.com
http://users.transfur.com/white/
"Neither hope no fear" -- Isabella d'Este
"For to do either is to fall to the beast" -- Joseph Richmond
M. Mitchell Marmel
> What do you recommend is the "something" that "we" do about them?
That would be telling. ;)
> And why is it
> you that gets to decide what is done about people and to whom it's done?
Just because. >:D
-MMM-
(whose Secret Diabolical Plan to Clean Up the Fandom will be revealed
all in good time...)
Brad Austin
>> There was a situation in an elevator Saturday
>> evening, when I was taking some important guests back to my room for
>> business. We were discussing said business in the elevator on our way up to
>> the room when one of the gentlement with me leaned back against the wall, as
>> most people do, when he found his side and pants covered in SEMEN!
>
> For the record we caught the person who was smearing mayonnaise packets
> on the elevator walls and took care of it. After a few minutes exposed
> to the air, mayonaise does indeed look like that other product, but it
> is a long running myth that this actvity ever actually happened in the
> CF hotel elevator.
No, it is not a myth. I can't speak to what the substance
was that was on the elevator wall that Saturday, that Ed
Kline's friend got on his leg. AFAIK that very well may
have been mayonnaise. And AFAIK you may be telling the
truth about catching someone smearing mayo packets on the
wall (though this is the first time I've heard anything
about that). However that doesn't change the fact that on
Thursday (not Saturday) evening of CF8, there was semen on
the floor (not the wall) of one of the elevators of the
Buena Park Hotel, and it was definitely semen, not
mayonnaise. Mayo may look like semen, but it does not
smell like semen. And the smell of this substance was
unmistakable. I smelled the semen before I saw it. I knew
from the smell that there was semen in the elevator, and
only then did I look around to see where the smell was
coming from.
I realize that it would be to the benefit of basically
everyone except a few pathological malcontents like Gabriel
Gentile for the incident to have not happened. However I
refuse to play that game. I don't care who benefits or who
doesn't. The truth is the truth, and telling the truth
about what happened is more important than anyone's
political considerations, including my own. I smelled what
I smelled, and I'm not going to say that I didn't when I
did, or that I'm not sure about it when I am. Nor am I
going to let the same result happen by keeping quiet when
someone else tries to revise history by saying it didn't
happen.
And I don't give a fuck whether anyone believes me or not.
You can think that I'm lying about it, like for some
bizarre reason I would have something to gain by saying it
happened when it didn't, or you can think that I just can't
tell the difference in smell between fresh semen and ripe
mayonnaise. Whether anyone believes me or not, as long as
I tell the truth about what I saw and smelled, my
conscience is clear.
a here.c | Brad Austin
r t o |
tax@ne m | Oceanside, CA USA
Blackberry
>
>Blackberry wrote:
>
>> What do you recommend is the "something" that "we" do about them?
>
>That would be telling. ;)
>
>> And why is it
>> you that gets to decide what is done about people and to whom it's done?
>
>Just because. >:D
I have to say that the world is a much more interesting place with Usenet Kooks,
including those that aren't but just play one on Usenet.
Blackberry
>
>Blackberry wrote:
>>
>>What do you recommend is the "something" that "we" do about them? And why is it
>> you that gets to decide what is done about people and to whom it's done?
>
>I already know you're a diseased FAG-lover, Dingleberry (there are gay
>people, and then there are FAGS!).
Er, okay... I am getting over a cold, so I guess that's fair. However, it's not
much of a recommendation.
Me: "What do you recommend we should do about them?"
You: "I know you are but what am I?"
>Go screw yourself (and we know you would if you could).
Well, I have to admit that I'd give it a try.
>(and yes, *I* might as well decide since none of you fucks will get off
>your asses and do anything yourselves. Thanks for the recommendation.)
You still haven't proven that you are in charge of "furry fandom".
Blackberry
>
>Blackberry wrote:
>>
>>As for Mr. Kline, he does sort of make his bias obvious -- first, he says that
>>he has no problems with homosexuals or anyone else; then, later, when discussing
>>the auction, he says that he attended looking for an auction and instead found
>> "a queer auction".
>
>Let's face it......
>
>There are gay people..........
>
>......and then there are QUEERS!!
I understand what you're talking about (which is scary to begin with), but his
attitude seems to be, "I'm okay with these people, but *those people* are icky!"
You can't be partially hypocritical. You either are or you aren't.
Gabriel Gentile
> I realize that it would be to the benefit of basically
> everyone except a few pathological malcontents like Gabriel
> Gentile for the incident to have not happened.
Flattery will get you nowhere.
AJL
> AJL wrote:
> > For the record we caught the person who was smearing mayonnaise packets
> > on the elevator walls and took care of it. After a few minutes exposed
> > to the air, mayonaise does indeed look like that other product, but it
> > is a long running myth that this actvity ever actually happened in the
> > CF hotel elevator.
>
> Thursday (not Saturday) evening of CF8, there was semen on
> the floor (not the wall) of one of the elevators of the
> Buena Park Hotel, and it was definitely semen, not
> mayonnaise. Mayo may look like semen, but it does not
> smell like semen. And the smell of this substance was
> unmistakable. I smelled the semen before I saw it. I knew
> from the smell that there was semen in the elevator, and
> only then did I look around to see where the smell was
> coming from.
Well, with that additional bit of testimony, I must revise my previous
assumptions. I was very happy with the knowledge earlier that we *had*
caught someone smearing mayonaise packets, and not having heard such a
strong testimonial before, the assumption was that it was all a hoax.
--Darrel.
Gabriel Gentile
> I understand what you're talking about (which is scary to begin with), but his
> attitude seems to be, "I'm okay with these people, but *those people* are
> icky!"
> You can't be partially hypocritical. You either are or you aren't.
Very well. Quid pro quo. Assuming you have no qualms with heterosexuals, you
must now be fully accepting of gay-bashers.
Have a nice day.
(PS: I'd use the Caucasian/Klansman/skinhead/Nazi example instead, but
that'd be breaking the rules. Protocol, kiddies, protocol.)
Jim Doolittle
at every furry convention, now.
-Jim
--
Jim Doolittle
http://www.flayrah.com
Unusually good information
AJL
> > Gabriel: what are you doing? What is the point of this? Why bring up
> > something that was over and dealt with 4 years ago? The convention is
> > under a totally new administration now - what happened at CF8 has not
> > happened at subsequent conventions. Why dredge up ancient history?
> No Crap!! What IS the point of this???? The ONLY reason I can see for
> this to be here is to generate trouble for the present day CF. Now, WHY
> would Gabriel want to do that?!
In Gabe's defense, he was apparently responding to someone talking about
that letter, so he dug it up for them.
However... Gabe... buddy... You really should have prefixed your post so
that people knew not only *what* you were quoting, but *why* you were
quoting it.
I don't feel that there was any malice on Gabe's part toward the current
ConFurence committee, he just didn't make it clear that he was quoting
an old post, and if you didn't read all of it, the reader, might not
have realized it.
On a sidenote, I don't think that anyone has ever argued the fact that
public behavior at ConFurence 8 was the worst behavior at any furry
convention to date. However, no one can blame it on a single
individual. ConFurence is more than just a chairman dictating orders...
it's more than just the staff in fact, it's also the attendees. Public
behavior at ConFurence is the result of putting together several hundred
people for a mostly social gathering, and the dynamic that year got
completely out of hand.
Granted, there is a lot of direction that the convention chair can give,
but in the end, the convention is a work of several dozen people, not
just one person.
--Darrel.
AJL
> I understand what you're talking about (which is scary to begin with), but his
> attitude seems to be, "I'm okay with these people, but *those people* are icky!"
> You can't be partially hypocritical. You either are or you aren't.
The world is made up of various shades. You are judging Ed Kline's 1997
letter in Black & White terms. There *are* varying shades inbetween.
--Darrel.
Blackberry
I should add that, even though I am hypocritical in a number of ways, this isn't
one of them, because I don't hate anyone.
People like mhirtes are advocating the idea that, because they don't like one
(1) person, one million (1,000,000) and more are bad and evil... but this
includes themselves, since they are part of that which they despise.
This is like saying that (Godwin does not apply here), because Hitler was bad,
all present-day German citizens are Nazis.
Blackberry
>
>
>> attitude seems to be, "I'm okay with these people, but *those people* are
>> icky!"
>> You can't be partially hypocritical. You either are or you aren't.
>
>Very well. Quid pro quo. Assuming you have no qualms with heterosexuals, you
>must now be fully accepting of gay-bashers.
I don't think they have very sound reasons for what they're doing, but that
doesn't mean "acceptance". I don't go around saying, "Ooh, they stink! Look at
that one! What a wife-beating redneck that one is! How can the others stand to
have that one in their anti-gay fandom? Now excuse me while I go bash some fag
heads."
Gabriel Gentile
> However... Gabe... buddy... You really should have prefixed your post so
> that people knew not only *what* you were quoting, but *why* you were
> quoting it.
Darryl... chum... 'taint your concern. But thanks for the thought.
Atara
>Darryl... chum... 'taint your concern. But thanks for the thought.
Well, since the letter that was not prefixed in any way mentioned
Confurence, of which he is the head, I'd say it did concern him. Very much
so.
--
Atara
"Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus."
http://www.FurNation.com/Atara/
***What doesn't fit in my email addy? NADA.***
mhirtes
Blackberry (Posterboy for Act Up!) wrote:
>
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 14:44:06 -0600, mhirtes wrote:
> >
> >Blackberry wrote:
> >>
> >>As for Mr. Kline, he does sort of make his bias obvious -- first, he says that
> >>he has no problems with homosexuals or anyone else; then, later, when discussing
> >>the auction, he says that he attended looking for an auction and instead found
> >> "a queer auction".
> >
> >Let's face it......
> >
> >There are gay people..........
> >
> >......and then there are QUEERS!!
> >[...]
>
> I understand what you're talking about (which is scary to begin with), but his
> attitude seems to be, "I'm okay with these people, but *those people* are icky!"
> You can't be partially hypocritical. You either are or you aren't.
Nope. I say that gay people are okay.
It's the QUEERS that need to have their heads knocked in.
It's not "gaybashing", it's QUEERbashing I would'nt mind.
mhirtes
Jim Doolittle wrote:
>
> Y'know, this is about five years old. Things are significantly different
> at every furry convention, now.
>
> -Jim
>
Yeah, it's worse.
Atara
<3CAE4AAD...@radiks.net>:
>Yeah, it's worse.
Bull.
Beau Wolff
>(and yes, *I* might as well decide since none of you fucks will get off
>your asses and do anything yourselves. Thanks for the recommendation.)
Other than an annoying tendancy to show off your delusions
of near-adequacy, do you have anything to recommend you as
arbiter of what should or shouldn't constitute fandom?
---------------------------------
http://www.northwood.org/beaumont
beaumont (at) northwood (dot) org
IM addresses and Fur Code at site
Beau Wolff
<spook...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Very well. Quid pro quo. Assuming you have no qualms with heterosexuals, you
>must now be fully accepting of gay-bashers.
Let me guess: accepting your ravings as facts means we're no
longer allowed to use toilet tissue for fear of censoring
you, right?
And learn how to use quid pro quo in its accepted sense,
prat. Your pretentions to knowledge don't equate to reality
in any sense.
Blackberry
>
>Nope. I say that gay people are okay.
>
>It's the QUEERS that need to have their heads knocked in.
>
>It's not "gaybashing", it's QUEERbashing I would'nt mind.
We're not going to agree on anything. I'll stop responding to your messages if
you'll stop responding to mine as well.
ilr
"Blackberry" <le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote in message news:a8l4a...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
> I have to say that the world is a much more interesting place with Usenet Kooks,
> including those that aren't but just play one on Usenet.
>
Hill one chasing after some cute mouse babe(French Maid outfit optional).
-Ilr
mhirtes
Atara wrote:
>
> mhi...@ALL.SPAMMERS.MUST.BE.DESTROYED.radiks.net (mhirtes) wrote in
> <3CAE4AAD...@radiks.net>:
>
> >Yeah, it's worse.
>
> Bull.
>
You do see a lot more of that going on there too.
Gabriel Gentile
>> Y'know, this is about five years old. Things are significantly different
>> at every furry convention, now.
>
>
Oh, Mike, now you're just being SILLY!
Even -I- wouldn't say that!
To be sure, there's still much room for improvement, but compared to CF8,
even MFM is acceptable.
Dr. K
in porno films. heheheh :)
--mc
www.romusz.com
Kitryn de Pluie
audacity to state the following:
WHAT?!
I thought it was real!
--
Kitryn de Pluie the Anthro Fox
DC: DC2.H^Mcf Gm L6f W T Pw Sku Cbk,bag,ebl,cag,wrb A- Fr++"mango" Nu
M(r+v+++1|2*) Ov+3 F+o R+ Ac+++ J+ S- U--- I V Q Tc++[anything but
programming] E
Dr. K
cum-load, they gotta haul in the stunt-spooge :)
i doubt theyre chugging back lotion and water....but for those 'aftermath'
shots with nut all over the place....well thats a different story. woooooo!
Kitryn de Pluie
audacity to state the following:
> ...sometimes its real but for certain shots, or just for the additional
> cum-load, they gotta haul in the stunt-spooge :)
>
> i doubt theyre chugging back lotion and water....but for those
> 'aftermath' shots with nut all over the place....well thats a different
> story. woooooo!
Oddly enough (and I don't know whether they edit these or not) but I have
never seen a single penis or single bit of semen in any pay-per-view porn.
WHY IS THIS?!
Dr. K
world at yer fingertips on the net!!! pay for porn, indeed.
on a side note, if yer not gettin hardcore on PPV, thats REALLY sad. you must
live in the land of the prudes, or are watching some of that suck-ass Skinimax
smut....heh.
Baloo Ursidae
It does make things a hell of a lot easier to follow.
--
Baloo
Baloo Ursidae
>>(and yes, *I* might as well decide since none of you fucks will get off
>>your asses and do anything yourselves. Thanks for the recommendation.)
>
> You still haven't proven that you are in charge of "furry fandom".
He hasn't even brought forth supporting evidence that I've seen.
--
Baloo
Baloo Ursidae
> I have to say that the world is a much more interesting place with Usenet Kooks,
> including those that aren't but just play one on Usenet.
Trying to remember if Hirtes was at Conifur last year and trying to put
a face to the name again...
--
Baloo
mhirtes
Nope and sorry. Don't think saving up for most of a year and flying
halfway across the country is worth going to a *Gak* *Spew* "furry con" for.
M. Mitchell Marmel
>
> Now now, if he's any kind of preformance artist, then he's the Benny
> Hill one chasing after some cute mouse babe(French Maid outfit optional).
Cue "Yackety Sax"... :D
-MMM-
--
============================================================================
M. Mitchell Marmel \ Scattered, smothered, covered, chunked,
Drexel University \ whipped, beaten, chained and pierced.
Department of Materials Engineering \ *THE BEST HASHBROWNS IN THE WORLD!*
Fibrous Materials Research Center \ marm...@drexel.edu
============================================================================
TaliVisions Homepage: http://www.pages.drexel.edu/grad/marmelmm/Talivisions/index.html
ICQ # 58305217
Kitryn de Pluie
audacity to state the following:
> you PAY for PORN???? whats wrong with you? you got all the free porn in
> the world at yer fingertips on the net!!! pay for porn, indeed.
It's called dialup. Sad, I know.
> on a side note, if yer not gettin hardcore on PPV, thats REALLY sad.
> you must live in the land of the prudes, or are watching some of that
> suck-ass Skinimax smut....heh.
I know. It sucks. And Skinemax ain't PPV. :p
artist
> In article <Xns91E7A1373B6C3...@24.24.0.14>, artist
> <mell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >> squirted all over the wall.
>> >
>> > Heh, if I recall correctly, that was Mayo.
>> >
>> > I joked with a person some months later that the perpetrator
>> > should
>> > have used catsup, that way someone would have thought someone was
>> > killed in the elevator instead :)
>> >
>> > (You see, I'd seen the Mayo trick long before CF, it's a Jr. High
>> > level prank. The reason it works so well is that people want to
>> > think it's something more than it is.)
>>
>> Now your just giving me ideas! ;)
>
> *Snicker!*
No, seriously! I graduate in May... The local college has an elevator,
but more importantly, it has several highly trafficed mens bathrooms. A
litte on a toilet seat here... a little on a urinal there....
--
ICQ UIN# 106922763
AIM: GCCFurryBoy
Yahoo!Messenger: Okime_Kun
mell...@yahoo.com
http://users.transfur.com/white/
"Neither hope no fear" -- Isabella d'Este
"For to do either is to fall to the beast" -- Joseph Richmond
Blackberry
>
>Oddly enough (and I don't know whether they edit these or not) but I have
>never seen a single penis or single bit of semen in any pay-per-view porn.
>WHY IS THIS?!
It's because you're watching pay-per-view porn. It's all medium-softcore. You
have to go and rent or buy (or download) the good stuff. :)
Blackberry
>
>Nope and sorry. Don't think saving up for most of a year and flying
>halfway across the country is worth going to a *Gak* *Spew* "furry con" for.
If you dislike anthropomorphic animals so much, why do you even visit this
newsgroup?
ilr
"Blackberry" <le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote in message news:a8n9a...@drn.newsguy.com...
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 05:36:25 -0600, mhirtes wrote:
> If you dislike anthropomorphic animals so much, why do you even visit this
> newsgroup?
>
And Don't hold your breath for him to give an honest answer on it.
-Ilr
Blackberry
>
>If you ain't figured that out by now, you probably never will.
>And Don't hold your breath for him to give an honest answer on it.
I'm pretty sure I never will. He seems to be borderline sociopathic. I guess I
should be more lenient, because this is probably all of the human contact he is
allowed by the staff. It's okay, Hirtie, go ahead and flame me some more. We
love you.
mhirtes
>
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 05:36:25 -0600, mhirtes wrote:
> >
> >Nope and sorry. Don't think saving up for most of a year and flying
> >halfway across the country is worth going to a *Gak* *Spew* "furry con" for.
>
> If you dislike anthropomorphic animals so much, why do you even visit this
> newsgroup?
>
*aham* (Apparently, SOME dipshits refuse to understand, so I will rererererereexplain).
It IS possible to enjoy anthro art as an ART form, but NOT have to cater
to the mass stupidity and repulsiveness that has come to call itself
"furry fandom".
It IS possible to read Usagi Yojimbo and NOT have to tolerate the
sickening antics of leatherfags with a tail.
It IS possible to watch Tiny Toons and NOT want to dress up in a Babs
Bunny fursuit and "yiff" with a fatass in a Buster costume.
THIS is what drives the "Hossi"s, "Miami Pony"s, and "DINGLEberry"s
(more) insane, because they no longer get to dictate to people that they
MUST embrace all the sick, self-destructive behavior if they want to
have anything to do "funny animal" material.
And in the long run, as more and more people start to realize that it IS
possible to enjoy the medium WITHOUT having to be involved with the
dysfunctional, Altogether Sickening Buttmunches (ASB) culture, THAT will
start to clean things up.
mhirtes
Well, I just did.
Blackberry
>
>*aham* (Apparently, SOME dipshits refuse to understand, so I will
>rererererereexplain).
Cool, thanks!
>It IS possible to enjoy anthro art as an ART form, but NOT have to cater
>to the mass stupidity and repulsiveness that has come to call itself
>"furry fandom".
I agree, since a lot of people do it.
>It IS possible to read Usagi Yojimbo and NOT have to tolerate the
>sickening antics of leatherfags with a tail.
Well, you can both read Usagi Yojimbo *and* tolerate people.
>It IS possible to watch Tiny Toons and NOT want to dress up in a Babs
>Bunny fursuit and "yiff" with a fatass in a Buster costume.
I agree, since a lot of people do it.
>THIS is what drives the "Hossi"s, "Miami Pony"s, and "DINGLEberry"s
>(more) insane, because they no longer get to dictate to people that they
>MUST embrace all the sick, self-destructive behavior if they want to
>have anything to do "funny animal" material.
Never said that you did have to. But you keep claiming that the majority of
furry fandom is this or that, and you haven't produced any good proof of such a
thing. You point at one person and claim that they represent a million.
>And in the long run, as more and more people start to realize that it IS
>possible to enjoy the medium WITHOUT having to be involved with the
>dysfunctional, Altogether Sickening Buttmunches (ASB) culture, THAT will
>start to clean things up.
What the hell does it hurt you if someone publishes a comic book? I can get you
some straight porn that will make you turn your head and cough too; does that
mean that all straight people are awful now?
ilr
"mhirtes" <mhi...@radiks.net> wrote in message news:3CAF6C4B...@radiks.net...
> Blackberry wrote:
> >
LOL
This is funnier than listening to Kenneth Lay with a rabid Hamster up his ass!
-Ilr
ilr
"Gabriel Gentile" <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B8D3F800.13B73%spook...@earthlink.net...
>
> >
> > Yeah, it's worse.
>
> Oh, Mike, now you're just being SILLY!
>
> Even -I- wouldn't say that!
>
mhirtes
Blackberry wrote:
>
> On Sat, 6 Apr 2002 11:17:52 -0700, "ilr" wrote:
> >
> >If you ain't figured that out by now, you probably never will.
> >And Don't hold your breath for him to give an honest answer on it.
>
> I'm pretty sure I never will. He seems to be borderline sociopathic.
Oh, LOOK who's talking!
mhirtes
Blackberry wrote:
>
>
> Well, you can both read Usagi Yojimbo *and* tolerate people.
Not if they're sick, repulsive, and militantly gay, you can't.
>
> >THIS is what drives the "Hossi"s, "Miami Pony"s, and "DINGLEberry"s
> >(more) insane, because they no longer get to dictate to people that they
> >MUST embrace all the sick, self-destructive behavior if they want to
> >have anything to do "funny animal" material.
>
> Never said that you did have to. But you keep claiming that the majority of
> furry fandom is this or that, and you haven't produced any good proof of such a
> thing.
1. Loaded
2. Vanity Fair
3. Marie Claire
4. Portal of Evil
5. Penny Arcade
6. SEX2K: Plushies and Furries
(need any more Exibits for the Prosecution?)
> You point at one person and claim that they represent a million.
When you _see_ ONE roach.........
ilr
"Gabriel Gentile" <spook...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B8D3F800.13B73%spook...@earthlink.net...
>
> >
>
> Oh, Mike, now you're just being SILLY!
>
> Even -I- wouldn't say that!
>
ilr
"Blackberry" <le...@NOanthrobunnySPAM.com> wrote in message news:a8nse...@drn.newsguy.com...
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 15:44:47 -0600, mhirtes wrote:
>
> >It IS possible to read Usagi Yojimbo and NOT have to tolerate the
> >sickening antics of leatherfags with a tail.
>
> Well, you can both read Usagi Yojimbo *and* tolerate people.
>
...doesn't mean society reuires you to do either.
Ilr "He's a Bad Mutha..."
Kitryn de Pluie
had the audacity to state the following:
> On 6 Apr 2002 09:13:32 GMT, /dev/null wrote:
>>
>>Oddly enough (and I don't know whether they edit these or not) but I
>>have never seen a single penis or single bit of semen in any
>>pay-per-view porn. WHY IS THIS?!
>
> It's because you're watching pay-per-view porn. It's all
> medium-softcore. You have to go and rent or buy (or download) the good
> stuff. :)
Pah. It makes no sense to me.
Blackberry
>
>[...]
>> Never said that you did have to. But you keep claiming that the majority of
>>furry fandom is this or that, and you haven't produced any good proof of such a
>> thing.
>
>1. Loaded
I don't know how many people talked to "Loaded".
>2. Vanity Fair
As far as I remember, only one or two people talked to Vanity Fair. Hardly a
million so far. Keep going.
>3. Marie Claire
Which is what?
>4. Portal of Evil
How many furries volunteer information to Portal of Evil?
>5. Penny Arcade
As far as I understand, no furries are involved in the making of Penny Arcade.
>6. SEX2K: Plushies and Furries
That was something like 5 people? So, we're up to, let's say, 6-10. Still
hardly a million.
>(need any more Exibits for the Prosecution?)
>
>> You point at one person and claim that they represent a million.
>
>When you _see_ ONE roach.........
Oh, I agree that you can do population sampling and make estimates. I just
don't see that 10 people who do one thing as compared to thousands who do other
things mean that the 10 people are more similar to the other 990,000 than the
thousands are.
Doodles
news:3CAE2576...@ajlvideo.com...
> Brad Austin wrote:
> > AJL wrote:
> > > For the record we caught the person who was smearing mayonnaise
packets
> > > on the elevator walls and took care of it. After a few minutes
exposed
> > > to the air, mayonaise does indeed look like that other product, but it
> > > is a long running myth that this actvity ever actually happened in the
> > > CF hotel elevator.
> >
> > However that doesn't change the fact that on
> > Thursday (not Saturday) evening of CF8, there was semen on
> > the floor (not the wall) of one of the elevators of the
> > Buena Park Hotel, and it was definitely semen, not
> > mayonnaise. Mayo may look like semen, but it does not
> > smell like semen. And the smell of this substance was
> > unmistakable. I smelled the semen before I saw it. I knew
> > from the smell that there was semen in the elevator, and
> > only then did I look around to see where the smell was
> > coming from.
>
> Well, with that additional bit of testimony, I must revise my previous
> assumptions. I was very happy with the knowledge earlier that we *had*
> caught someone smearing mayonaise packets, and not having heard such a
> strong testimonial before, the assumption was that it was all a hoax.
And at any rate, Darrel, such events as what happened at CF 8 have not taken
place at any time since you have run the event, and I doubt they ever will.
By the by, the message that started this recent flamewar was originally
posted on the newsgroups by me specifically at Ed Kilne's request. This was
not long after CF8 because of his strong feelings towards the convention,
which he had been going to for a number of years. Unfortunately, or
fortunately depending on how you see Usenet [news source or flame fest], Ed
has never read these groups. I do believe he has net access and you may be
able to contact him directly, but I haven't got that information to hand.
sola...@don'tmesswithtexas.net
>> It's because you're watching pay-per-view porn. It's all
>> medium-softcore. You have to go and rent or buy (or download) the good
>> stuff. :)
>Pah. It makes no sense to me.
Government regulations don't have to make sense. :) See the signature
line below.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"For the children" - the phrase politicians use to justify a course of action
so irrational it cannot be justified in any other way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
solarfox@DON'TMESSWITHtexas.net (Gary Akins jr.)
http://lonestar.texas.net/~solarfox
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gabriel Gentile
> 3. Marie Claire
Who?
Baloo Ursidae
> This is funnier than listening to Kenneth Lay with a rabid Hamster up his ass!
I thought he *was* the rabid hamster. After all, he's not making sense
("I knew nothing about the documents I personally ordered destroyed")
and spinning his wheels in the process.
--
Baloo
Baloo Ursidae
>> It's because you're watching pay-per-view porn. It's all
>> medium-softcore. You have to go and rent or buy (or download) the good
>> stuff. :)
>
> Pah. It makes no sense to me.
Pornographic movies leave nothing to mystery except the plot.
--
Baloo
ilr
"Baloo Ursidae" <ba...@ursine.dyndns.org> wrote in message news:10181586...@ursine.dyndns.org...
Baloo Ursidae
> Whoops, did I say Lay? WTF, I meant Star.
Ken Star did basically the same thing. Instead of killing off Clinton's
presidency, he got Clinton impeached but not convicted, and the fact
Clinton survived that gave him the highest approval rating of any
president ever (was something like 98% if I remember right, so it was
only the hardliners who think anything progressive is always wrong and
can't be convinced otherwise who were the 2%). Oh, yeah, and gave the
Clintons enough momentum that Hillary ran for and won her first office.
If one didn't know better, you'd think anybody who's high profile with
the name "Kenneth" is pretty much doomed to fail.
--
Baloo
BR
What plot?
Don Sanders
says...
good to see somebody else willing to make the reference and not get
screwed. Then again, why bother.
--
Don Sanders.
Baloo Ursidae
>> Pornographic movies leave nothing to mystery except the plot.
> What plot?
Exactly.
--
Baloo
ilr
"Tim Gadd" <nota...@addy.com> wrote in message news:W=+wPA7nO610OkG...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 5 Apr 2002 21:45:49 -0700, "ilr" <i...@CHILLIESriflenet.net> wrote:
>
> Did you know Benny Hill was in radio before he was in TV? I saw a radio
> annual from about 1950 the other day, and it had him on the cover with a
> Donkey (christ, don't ask. I didn't read it)
> --
Man, that's whack!
Dr. Cat
: It IS possible to enjoy anthro art as an ART form, but NOT have to cater
: to the mass stupidity and repulsiveness that has come to call itself
: "furry fandom".
Yes, that's quite true. Many millions of people do so every day, through
popular anthropomorphic characters in cartoons, videogames, advertisements,
greeting cards, etc. etc.
But you know, most people who choose to enjoy anthro art solely in that way
choose not to read alt.fan.furry, let alone post to it. It is pretty much
a part of the "furry fandom", and if one wants to enjoy the anthro art
whilst avoiding the fandom, avoiding this newsgroup would generally be
part of such a strategy.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.furcadia.com
Furcadia - a graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: Unless you're addicted to the sub-hobby of "flamewars related
to furry fandom" or just generally "bitching out loud to get a response".
Purrhaps we'll see a mindless insult directed at me without replying to my
actual point, as evidence of this tendency. Let's see what happens.)
(P.S. We've secretly replaced his regular toothpaste with Folger's Crystals.)
Dr. Cat
: In article <B8D27E94.13A83%spook...@earthlink.net>, Gabriel Gentile
: <spook...@earthlink.net> repeated old news:
:> We were discussing said business in the elevator on our way up to
:> the room when one of the gentlement with me leaned back against the wall, as
:> most people do, when he found his side and pants covered in SEMEN! Some
:> diseased bottom-feeder couldn't contain himself and squirted all over the
:> wall.
: Heh, if I recall correctly, that was Mayo.
You know, in some circles, people who have any awareness of the rather
modest quantities of certain substances that the average male human
produces might have taken the copious amount of that stuff as some kind
of hint that it was something other than semen.
Why was no such guess made here? I place the blame entirely on Doug
Winger. After years of his drawings have given furry fans a patently
unrealistic set of expectations about what certain portions of the
anatomy can produce, it's no wonder that people wouldn't take an
elevator wall covered with large amounts of goo to be the mayonnaise
that it actually was. They probably just thought "Oh, one of those
equine shemales must have been riding this elevator again, dang it".
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.furcadia.com
Furcadia - a graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: Luckily the scattered remnants of the Burned Fur movement will
be coming together soon to do a benefit concert to raise mone for a new
charity dedicated to educating furry fans to have more realistic expectations
about such issues, and to inform them that Dolly Parton's figure is the rare
exception, rather than the general rule.)
artist
<marm...@drexel.edu> said...
> Blackberry wrote:
>
>> What do you recommend is the "something" that "we" do about them?
>
> That would be telling. ;)
>
>> And why is it
>> you that gets to decide what is done about people and to whom it's done?
>
> Just because. >:D
>
> -MMM-
>
> (whose Secret Diabolical Plan to Clean Up the Fandom will be revealed
> all in good time...)
Those are the two best answers I have heard in a long time. Sincire and
honest, gotta love it. ;)
--
ICQ UIN# 106922763
AIM: GCCFurryBoy
Yahoo!Messenger: Okime_Kun
mell...@yahoo.com
http://users.transfur.com/white/
"Neither hope no fear" -- Isabella d'Este
"For to do either is to fall to the beast" -- Joseph Richmond
M. Mitchell Marmel
> Those are the two best answers I have heard in a long time. Sincire and
> honest, gotta love it. ;)
Thankee! :D
-MMM-
--
============================================================================
M. Mitchell Marmel \ Scattered, smothered, covered, chunked,
Drexel University Dept. of Mat. Eng. \ whipped, beaten, chained and pierced.
Fibrous Materials Research Center \ *THE BEST HASHBROWNS IN THE WORLD!*
http://fmrc.coe.drexel.edu \ marm...@drexel.edu
============================================================================
TaliVisions: http://www.pages.drexel.edu/grad/marmelmm/Talivisions/index.html
ICQ # 58305217
Brad Austin
> Mathue <mathu/e...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> : Heh, if I recall correctly, that was Mayo.
>
> You know, in some circles, people who have any awareness of the rather
> modest quantities of certain substances that the average male human
> produces might have taken the copious amount of that stuff as some kind
> of hint that it was something other than semen.
Just for clarification, are you referring to the substance
on the wall of the elevator Saturday, or the substance on the
floor of the elevator Thursday, or both? I didn't see the
former, because I mostly used the stairs after Thursday. But
the stuff I saw Thursday didn't look like more than a
reasonable volume for a single ejaculation to me.
And in either case, did you see the stuff in the elevator on
Thursday? Whether or not you believe it was semen, it would
be nice if I wasn't the only person in the world saying there
was any substance at all in the elevator Thursday (which to
my considerable astonishment does suddenly appear to be the
case), and you're the only person I can think of who I know
was definitely at the con that day and who still posts here.
Fore reference it would have been a short while after we got
back from Disneyland.
> Why was no such guess made here? I place the blame entirely on Doug
> Winger. After years of his drawings have given furry fans a patently
> unrealistic set of expectations about what certain portions of the
> anatomy can produce, it's no wonder that people wouldn't take an
> elevator wall covered with large amounts of goo to be the mayonnaise
> that it actually was.
I've never actually even seen any of Doug's work.
a here.c | Brad Austin
r t o |
tax@ne m | Oceanside, CA USA
batty den
>You know, in some circles, people who have any awareness of the rather
>modest quantities of certain substances that the average male human
>produces
<snipt>
10cc is the average amount produced, I seem to remember.
That's about a tea-spoon full, if you (generic you not You, Dr. Cat) are
wondering and don't do metric.
den
--
Credendo Vides
Bat Rescue Diaries: http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~denbat/
_____________________________________________________________
I know this might sound strange, |www.battyden.net
but all I want is a normal life |www.ozemail.com.au/~denbat
_____________________________________________________________
Martin Skunk
news:3CAE0FC2...@drexel.edu...
> -MMM-
>
> (whose Secret Diabolical Plan to Clean Up the Fandom will be revealed
> all in good time...)
I think I have a clue about that Secret Diabolical Plan to Clean Up
the Fandom. Can I start spreading rumors?
---Martin Skunk
Blackberry
>
>10cc is the average amount produced, I seem to remember.
>
>That's about a tea-spoon full, if you (generic you not You, Dr. Cat) are
>wondering and don't do metric.
Yep; that's where you get both the bands named "10cc" and "The Lovin' Spoonful".
Well, and "Pearl Jam" too, but let's not go there.
--------------------
"Over the river, and through the woods...
...let me see that map!"
-- Laurie Anderson, "New Jersey Turnpike"
Ken Pick
> Well, people who were interested were having a hard time finding Ed Kline's
> letter, so I figured I'd just cut and paste it on the NG to save them some
> headaches.
In which case, you should have put an introductory paragraph on your
original post introducing it as the Ed Kline letter of X years ago
referring the problems at CF8. As it was, running it without such an
introductory comment just started another alt.flame.furry.
I was at CF8, too. I can confirm about half the letter (mostly the
behavior in public areas and "Invasion of the Spandex Commandoes"; I
did not attend the pet auction or Cabaret).
CF8 was the absolute low point of Confurence, and probably did more to
start and/or lock in the "Furry = pervert" perception that is now
bearing fruit with Vanity Fair & MTV: Plushies & Furries. The
excesses there were also the major impetus for the founding of the
Burned Furs.
Baloo Ursidae
> Yep; that's where you get both the bands named "10cc" and "The Lovin' Spoonful".
> Well, and "Pearl Jam" too, but let's not go there.
Ugh. Never even thought to parse "Pearl Jam" sexually before. And now
I can think of at least 2 things that it could be. And I'm moving on
now...
--
Baloo
Kishma Danielle Morales
----------
In article <3cb4...@giga.realtime.net>, "Dr. Cat"
<c...@sullivan.realtime.net> wrote:
> Mathue <mathu/e...@mac.com> wrote:
> : In article <B8D27E94.13A83%spook...@earthlink.net>, Gabriel Gentile
> : <spook...@earthlink.net> repeated old news:
>
> :> We were discussing said business in the elevator on our way up to
> :> the room when one of the gentlement with me leaned back against the wall,
as
> :> most people do, when he found his side and pants covered in SEMEN! Some
> :> diseased bottom-feeder couldn't contain himself and squirted all over the
> :> wall.
>
> : Heh, if I recall correctly, that was Mayo.
>
No, it was not mayo. I was there. In the elevator. It was not that the man's
pants and shirt were exactly "covered" but it was there. On his pants. On
his sleeve. Where he'd leaned back in the elevator.
Mayo does _not_ smell like that.
It is my guess that what was there was "delivered" by more than one
individual. As there was a copius amount there.
Kishma Danielle
Dr. Cat
: Just for clarification, are you referring to the substance
: on the wall of the elevator Saturday, or the substance on the
: floor of the elevator Thursday, or both?
I only have the word of others about what was when where.
Apply any humorous remarks about mayonnaise I make to whatever
situations you feel they may or may not apply to as needed.
: And in either case, did you see the stuff in the elevator on
: Thursday? Whether or not you believe it was semen, it would
: be nice if I wasn't the only person in the world saying there
: was any substance at all in the elevator Thursday (which to
: my considerable astonishment does suddenly appear to be the
: case), and you're the only person I can think of who I know
: was definitely at the con that day and who still posts here.
: Fore reference it would have been a short while after we got
: back from Disneyland.
Was that the year I went with Talzhemir to Disneyland? I know
I've missed a couple of Confurences since I started going around
CF4 or CF5, thought the infamous "gooey elevator and two gay boys
making out in the lobby" year might have been one I missed. But
if you remember me being at that one I'll take your word for it.
Afraid I can't say I saw stuff in the elevator thursday or saturday -
nor have I seen anything gooey on the walls or floor of any elevator
I've ever been in in my life. Didn't see people making out in the
hotel lobby either. Guess it shows things aren't *quite* as bad as
the worst doomsayers claim, if even at what was supposedly the worst
con ever public behavior wise, it was entire possible to spend the
whole weekend running around the con without seeing anything that
was offensive.
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions || Free alpha test:
*-------------------------------------------** http://www.furcadia.com
Furcadia - a graphic mud for PCs! || Let your imagination soar!
*-------------------------------------------**-----------------------------*
(Disclaimer: Well, except for the x-rated artwork, which would probably
offend many non-furry-fans and probably some furry fans too. But het.)
Brad Austin
> Was that the year I went with Talzhemir to Disneyland?
I don't know who Talzhemir is. There were about a dozen or
so people in our group. Me, you, Lynx Meerkat, Mathue
Taxion and his boyfriend whose name I don't remember, a
certain otter we both know who probably doesn't want his
name mentioned here, and several others whose names I never
knew. We rode over to Disneyland on a free shuttle provided
by the Buena Park Hotel, which turned out to be an old,
decrepit yellow school bus. You were wearing pants made out
of lycra or spandex or something. I think I was wearing a
Sawtooth Pack t-shirt. I don't think you knew who I was at
the time, because at one point we were in one of the gift
shops, and someone made some sort of remark (I don't remember
what it was exactly) that would only be understood by someone
from the PML, or otherwise familiar with plushophile culture,
and you apparently assumed I didn't know what they were
talking about and started explaining it to me. I think it
may have been that someone spotted a Mattel Meeko, and made
some comment about it, but I wouldn't swear to it.
> Afraid I can't say I saw stuff in the elevator thursday or saturday -
> nor have I seen anything gooey on the walls or floor of any elevator
> I've ever been in in my life. Didn't see people making out in the
> hotel lobby either. Guess it shows things aren't *quite* as bad as
> the worst doomsayers claim, if even at what was supposedly the worst
> con ever public behavior wise, it was entire possible to spend the
> whole weekend running around the con without seeing anything that
> was offensive.
Other than the semen in the elevator, I didn't see anything
offensive either. In fact the most offensive thing that
happened to me that weekend happened at Disneyland. It was
either Mathue Taxion or his boyfriend, I don't remember
which. Whoever it was asked me what my FurryMUCK character
name was, and when I said I didn't have one, he asked me
incredulously what I was doing at Confurence if I wasn't on
FurryMUCK.