alt.fan.frank-zappa FAQ (7/12) "Vinyl vs. CD's"
Rob Sweet
alt.fan.frank-zappa FAQ (7/12) "Vinyl vs. CD's"
From
Vladimir Sovetov (so...@bank.kemerovo.su)
with a great help and encouragement
from
Rob Sweet <sw...@skat.usc.edu>
Monthly FAQ
"Are there any differences between FZ Vinyls and CDs?"
version 1.5 ( 09-26-94 )
************************************
From: Tom....@20.mechanic.fidonet.org (Tom Press)
CD's have extremely good sound quality. But I would never think
of giving up any of my Zappa vinyl's.
********* FREAK OUT ***************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Better than the Vinyl album - particularly the digital treatment of
the vocals and guitars. "MONSTER MAGNET" has been re-mixed
slightly. "BRAIN POLICE" has a longer outro and segues into "..ELSES
SHOULDER"
Some digital reverb has been added to some songs without "mushing" them up
too much.
From: "Brian J. Bernstein" <BJBER...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Brain Police - On the lp, the lines "What would you do if the label comes
offffff >shehhheshhhshhh!!!< (crazy mind melting sound effect)" the sound
effect is very loud/prominent/etc.. on the CD it was softened considerably
******** ABSOLUTELY FREE ************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Two bonus tracks (BIG LEG EMMA & WHY DONT YA DO ME RIGHT). The mix is
the same as the vinyl with a bit more digital reverb.
******** LUMPY GRAVY **************
From: je...@sol.cs.uni-sb.de (Joerg Zeyer)
The bass and drum tracks of the CD version of LUMPY GRAVY do not sound
like the ones of WOIIFTM, which obviously are rerecorded. So it seems to
me that the bass 'n' drum tracks of the CD version of LUMPY GRAVY are the
original ones.
I may be wrong since I never had heard the vinyl version of LUMPY GRAVY.
See also
WOIFTM comments From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
********* WE'RE ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY ***********
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Completely different to the album. All the songs have been re-mixed and
new bass & drum tracks have been added. Some songs are sped up too. If you
are used to the original vinyl album and love it - DON'T BUY IT.
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
On one CD with Lumpy Gravy. CD version has bass and drum tracks
rerecorded, and worst of all, "Let's Make the Water Turn Black" is
sped up so that it sounds like the chipmunk version. The missing/backward
verses that had been censored in various ways on the album have been
restored to "Other People" and "Harry, You're a Beast."
From: fn...@panix.com (Cliff Heller)
Unlistenable. Even after not hearing the vinyl version for several years,
the CD version is just so shockingly WRONG. Stay away. Invest in a mint
copy of the vinyl and make a digital recording of it.
I believe the entire album is noticably (and annoyingly) sped up.
Two of my all time favorite songs: Mother People and Absolutely Free were
rendered unlistenable.
From: Mr_Gi...@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Ditto for Hot Rats and Ruben and the Jets.
From: spb...@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU (Pat Buzby)
I first bought this on CD, and have never heard the LP.
It sounds fine to me.
From: mcen...@world.std.com (Brendan McEnaney)
Going back to WOIIFTM for a minute, I just now conducted another thrilling
test right here in my headphones by first playing the original (tape of a
near pristine vinyl) followed immediatly by the dreaded CD. I wish some-
body would pay me to conduct tests like this for a full time job. These
are two great products to help fulfull your home entertainment needs. One
of them is, unfortunatly currently unavailable.
I don't care if I'm the only shmuck on the planet who feels this way but
I *really* like *both* of these versions. For the last 80 minutes I just
sat with the headphones on and didn't do anything but listen and let the
music from both either push my buttons or not.
It had been a couple of years since I'd listened to the vinyl and I
really had a blast listening to it. I especially enjoyed hearing the
original bass and drum tracks again after hearing the other version a
few times. I half expected to join the forces that oppose the evil new
release when I started it up immediatly after the original was over and
so sat back and listened very attentivly for things to bum me out...
********* CRUISING WITH THE RUBEN AND THE JETS ************
From: je...@sol.cs.uni-sb.de (Joerg Zeyer)
It is well known that the CD version of CRUISIN WITH RUBEN AND THE JETS
(along with WE'RE ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY) is a remixed version of the
original vinyl version and the drums and bass parts are rerecorded and
sounding really bad and misplaced.
But as far as I can hear it there seem to be three exceptions:
On STUFF UP THE CRACKS, the bass AND the drums sound as if they were the
original recording (moreover, I believe I can hear TWO drummers).
And on ANYTHING and NO NO NO the bass seems to be rerecorded while the drums
sound as if they were the original recordings.
From: Chris Ullsperger <ulls...@mendel.berkeley.edu>
The Reuben and the Jets CD has also had its bass and drum tracks
overdubbed and, like WOIFTM, has basically been ruined. Otherwise, it's
the same. Where is the Sonic Solution guy to take care of those old
masters????
From: rob...@sybase.com (Robert Garvey)
I'd read somewhere (The Real Frank Zappa Book?) that "Stuff Up the
Cracks" was put onto CD from a two-track mix as the original master
was nowhere to be found.
********* UNCLE MEAT ************
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Sound quality is the same. The CD contains some excerpts from the making
of Uncle Meat, which is quite a lot of material. Also a new song, "Tengo
na Minchia Tanta."
********* HOT RATS **************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
PEACHES sounds better. WILLIE THE PIMP 's intro is mixed differently.
MY GREEN GENES suffers the most - the drums are lost in a wash of cymbals.
LITTLE UMBRELLAS sounds better. GUMBO is about 5 minutes longer - good mix.
CAMEL sounds better. Some additional tracks (recorded during the original
sessions) have been mixed back in. The sound quality is better than the
vinyl for the obviious reasons, but this IS an example of CD's bringing out
the limitations of analog tape, particularly when the tape is nearly 25
years old!!
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
The intro to The Gumbo Variations is longer on the CD. The CD has much
less dynamic range than the vinyl. This may not be noticeable unless you
have really good speakers.
From: spb...@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU (Pat Buzby)
I don't know about that. The CD completely blows away the vinyl for me :
it's like the difference between black-and-white and color TV.
From: fn...@panix.com (Cliff Heller)
Some folks complain about Hot Rats, but I love that CD.
Sure it's a question of taste, but the people who have problems with
particular releases do have valid concerns that should not simply be
dismissed because Frank did it and Frank is an infallible god.
From: sw...@Virginia.EDU (Sten Winfield Johnson)
Great sound, but noticeably remixed, bringing in unheard elements from
the original sessions. At times, the additions are welcome (a longer intro
on "Gumbo Variations"), but sometimes intrusive (piano vamping during
"Little Umbrellas")
From: mcen...@world.std.com (Brendan McEnaney)
One more thing... I've also seen people post that Hot Rats is another one
on the shit list. That was the first CD purchase I made when I first
bought a deck. It had just been released (inspiring me to buy the deck in
the first place) and was a limited edition gold disk. That sucker sounds
fucking G R E A T !
************** BURNT WEENY SANDWICH ****************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Much better sound quality than the vinyl album.
************* WEASELS RIPPED MY FLESH *************
From: obr...@imagen.com (Doug Obrecht)
I just picked up Weasels Ripped My Flesh in CD (I had the vinyl)
in a used bin. "Weasels..." is still my favorite title for a FZ
album and has the BEST album cover art (IMO).
An extra 3 minutes was added to "Didja Get Any Onya?"
"Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask" has
been remixed a bit.
The song "Weasels Ripped My Flesh" is still 2:08 of feedback
and noise. Oh well.
There are no speedups or added instruments as far as I can determine.
"RZZZZZ!"
From: sw...@Virginia.EDU (Sten Winfield Johnson)
This album is altered for the CD release. The opening track is extended
and segues into "Directly from my Heart", which is annoying. Other tampering
exists also, but I have difficulty being specific.
*************** CHUNGA'S REVENGE ******************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Same mix. Good sound quality.
From: "Brian J. Bernstein" <BJBER...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Tell me you love me's 'melody guitar' is slightly mixed different on the
CD... it's level is reduced?
*************** FILLMORE EAST, JUNE 1971 *************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
This album was badly recorded to begin with. The CD makes that all the
more apparent. Vocals have been treated and improved. Willie the pimp
part one and two are now 'AS ONE' , but it now fades out.
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
The second half of "Willie the Pimp," which opened the second side of
the LP, is missing on the CD. Other than that, no difference.
*************** 200 MOTELS *************
From: rob...@sybase.com (Robert Garvey)
As far as I know, 200 Motels has never been released on CD.
I don't think Zappa ever gained ownership of that soundtrack
from United Artists/MCA, as was the case with all his work on
Verve and the Warner Brothers material. 200 Motels had been
issued cassette, though. It was apparently released some
years ago as part of MCA's classic soundtracks series. That
seems a bit ironic. Classic? Not by general standards,
though probably in the view of many readers of this group.
From: s042...@let.rug.nl (R. Bartelink)
Indeed, it hasn't been released on CD, because Frank didn't have
the rights. I doubt if it ever will appear on cd, since it isn't one
of uncle Franky's biggest "commercial successes". The LP isn't very
good produced btw. When played on a not even so very high volume level,
you can here some "pre-echoes" (is this a REAL word, well you know what
I mean) from the master tape. The louder parts, especially in a high
pitch, are even distorted. Let's say it's just a must-have-thing.
From: ep...@Virginia.EDU (Erik Paine Brady)
United Artists has the rights to the soundtrack, since it is a
film. No legal cd copies exist, but I know there are copies
out there (in Germany, at least). It's a double cd and I'm not
sure if it's taken from the masters or not (don't know how it
could be) but the sound is great.
From: Michael W. Cook <mic...@delphi.com>
Yeah, 200 Motels is DAMN rare. And unfortunately, you will probably
never see it on CD. It was released on a label <Liberty, I believe> and
went belly up. Legal rights were probably never settled. Real shame
because there are some great notes on that one.
*************** JUST ANOTHER BAND FROM L.A. **********
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Same mix. Good sound quality.
************** WAKA/JAWAKA ****************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Same mix. Good sound quality.
See also
Grand Wazoo comments From: spb...@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU
*********** GRAND WAZOO **************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Same mix as original album. Sound quality better too. The track order is
different - " The Grand Wazoo" precedes "Calvin" .
From: db...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Phillip A. Freshour)
Interesting. This is not so in the States. I have both the vinyl and CD
versions of Grand Wazoo, and "Calvin" and "The Grand Wazoo" are tracks
#1 and #2, respectively, on both.
From: spb...@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU (Pat Buzby)
I do know that Grand Wazoo is missing the musician photos from the
original album, and that Waka/Jawaka is missing the FZ photos.
Boo!
************** OVER-NITE SENSATION **************
From: so...@bank.kemerovo.su (Vladimir Sovetov)
On the same CD as an APOSTROPHE
************* APOSTROPHE ****************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Better than the vinyl album, although The Excentifugal Force has been
re-mixed - the horn part is missing just before the vocal comes in.
From: "Brian J. Bernstein" <BJBER...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
Excentrifugal Forz - the intro guitar melody is 'stronger' or more
prominent on the LP than on the CD
From: je...@sol.cs.uni-sb.de (Joerg Zeyer)
By the way, you have to be careful when talking bout the CD versions of
Zappa's records: in some cases there exist different versions on CD, since
some appeared on the label RYKODISC and in a different mix on the label
ZAPPA RECORDS/BARKING PUMPKIN.
For instance, APOSTROPHE/OVERNITE SENSATION appeared on the RYKO label,
and it was the same mix as on vinyl. It also appeared on ZAPPA RECORDS
some years later and this was a ``remastered'' version.
From: jlro...@unccsun.uncc.edu (James Lee Robinson)
Is it just me or is the sound quality of the Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation
disc substandard? Is is just because it is mastered at a lower volume
than other discs (i.e. MAJNH)? I noticed this through having my
disc changer shuffle a 6-pack of Zappa, and this disc suffered noticably.
Anyone else bugged by this? How does the LP version sound? Any other
re-releases with the same "problem"?
From: Vladimir Sovetov (so...@bank.kemerovo.su)
Yes, the sound volume of my A/OS Ryko disc is also noticeably lower than
volume of my other CDs. Freak Out, Chunga, Zoot etc. The sound volume of
(') LP ( I still have one ) seems to be as good as of my OSFA and WRMF LP.
*********** ROXY AND ELSEWHERE ***************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Same mix. Good sound quality
************ ONE SIZE FITS ALL ***************
From: so...@bank.kemerovo.su (Vladimir Sovetov)
No one ever reported anything horrible. So let's suppose that OSFA
is OSFA in either of it's incarnations. Really Chump Hare Rama ain't
no good to try remixing :-)))
*********** BONGO FURY ***************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Same mix. Good sound quality
********** ZOOT ALLURES ****************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Same mix. Good sound quality
From: spb...@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU (Pat Buzby)
Zoot Allures is the one case I know of where the CD is inferior
to the LP. It's a subjective difference, but I noticed a certain boxy
quality to the CD sound that I never noticed on the album. Also, the
last scream on "Torture Never Stops" is obnoxiously placed at the
introduction to the next track.
********** FRANK ZAPPA IN NEW YORK *************
From: sun...@cs.chalmers.se (Ulf Sundin)
CD version of Zappa in New York contains about 45 minutes more music,
distributet over five new songs and one extended version.
The new songs are 'Cruisin' for burgers', 'Punky's Whips',
'I'm the Slime', 'Pound for a Brown', and 'The Torture never stops'.
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
The CD is much longer, containing more cuts and longer existing cuts,
such as "Titties and Beer."
From: Vladimir Sovetov (so...@bank.kemerovo.su )
The CD is much better than LP ( even double as it happened to be :-).
And really worth buying.
*********** STUDIO TAN *************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Has anyone noticed the 'strange' edit in the CD version of Greggary
Peccary? There's a bit missing!! Maybe a couple of seconds of music
has been edited out compared to the original. Its the percussion bit
after Zappa says "where they keep the government buldings" Why was
this done?
From: pola...@gold.tc.umn.edu (Daniel J Polanski-1)
I haven't heard the original vinyl for years but I'd swear the CD
sounds a lot different from what I remember. Perhaps he re-did on
his synclavier.
*********** SLEEP DIRT ***************
From: Chris Ullsperger <ulls...@mendel.berkeley.edu>
The Sleep Dirt CD contains Thana Harris' vocal tracks on the
Hunchentoot numbers (Flambay, Spider of Destiny, Time is
Money) and represents an important "restoration" in my opinion.
Essential for continuity.
Too bad that musical will never see the light.
From: Vladimir Sovetov (so...@bank.kemerovo.su)
But you should listen to it three or four times to stop thinking
that Thana Harris voice just spoiled 15 minutes of excellent music.
So be patient :-)
From: Richard K Fox <fo...@cis.ohio-state.edu>
The CD also has drum tracks overdubbed by Chud Wackerman on the
songs which previously did not have drum tracks.
********** SHEIK YERBOUTI ****************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
I'm So Cute is shorter by about a minute - the synth noise that was
at the end has been edited out. Sheik yerbouti Tango is a couple of
minutes longer.
Mix and sound quality is great.
From: aj...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (David Watson)
"The Sheik Yerbouti Tango" extended to about four minutes, while most of
the ending of "I'm So Cute" is lopped off (FUCK!!). Quality almost as
good as the vinyl.
From: j...@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (jeffrey.j.rocca)
I have both an EMI CD and a Barking Pumpkin CD of _Sheik Yerbouti_.
The EMI CD is a digital master of the LP. The music content on the
EMI CD has not been altered, as was done with the Barking Pumpkin CD.
From: men...@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Menard Isabelle)
The EMI CD is exactly like the album. I would even predict that they
release the vinyl version of a album unlike Bob Stone and FZ who remix
about all first five albums. I am a long time fan of the first five
(Freak, Absolutely, Were only, Ruben and Uncle) and when the CD version
came out (as well as the FZ Box I) I was very sad that they did not
keep what was so wonderfull about those album: they sound "old". But
they should!!! It's like listening to a coloured film of the 1920-1930's.
It's not real and the charm of it is lost in a certain way. It is just
another interpretation of the same song but the original will always be
very important to FZ fans.
From: Rob Sweet <sw...@ucs.usc.edu>
The song "Bobby Brown" is renamed "Bobby Brown Goes Down" on
the CD release.
******** JOE'S GARAGE ***************
From: ais...@news.salford.ac.uk (Neil)
Great Mix. Much better sound quality, particularly the bottom end.
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
No discernable difference in sound quality or content. The art on the
booklet is changed, and there are two song title changes. "Toad-o Line"
has become "On the Bus," and "Wet T-Shirt Night" has become "Fembot in a
Wet T-Shirt." I'd like to know how these changed, because I think the
original titles are better.
******** MAN FROM UTOPIA ***********
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
The CD contains an extra song, the name of which escapes me right
now but it's doo-wop, and "Sex" is longer, which suits me fine.
What doesn't suit me is that the sound quality of the CD stinks on ice.
The bass is booming without being loud. When I played it, I thought my
speakers had been blown. However, the vinyl played just fine.
From: fn...@panix.com (Cliff Heller)
Plus a completely different song order.
"Sex" had an extra verse, but Some parts in the chorus were unnecessarily
hit with a pitch bender. It sounds stupid, he should have left that one
alone.
The other songs sound fine to me and I have the vinyl.
******** YOU ARE WHAT YOU IS **********
From: Chris Ullsperger <ulls...@mendel.berkeley.edu>
On the You Are What You Is CD, the guitar solo has been deleted
substantially because (according to one explanation) there is a
change in pitch or key during the album flip (you'll remember that
one side ends with the solo fade-out and the next side begins with
a cut back in--that's where the key change is--, and quickly segues
into Heavenly Bank Account).
From: n...@unirsvl.rsvl.unisys.com (Neil Schlegel)
I recently picked up the 'You are what you is" CD, and have noticed
an annoying irregular volume on many of the vocal tracks (I hear
something similar to dropouts in old cassettes) . It is very noticable
(to me) in 'Charlie's enormous mouth', 'Any downers' and 'Jumbo go away'.
From: k...@er3.rutgers.edu (Uncle Meat)
I got the Cd a few years ago and wondered if my speaker wires were
loose!! Certain tracks fade in and out, left and right with no rhyme or
reason. I returned the Cd to the record store and got a different copy,
only to find the same thing happening on the new one. I gave up and
bought the album.
From: bh...@harris.com (Brian Hyde)
I have seen several posts about this subject here. Aparently, some of
the YAWYI CDs are fine, yet others exhibit the strange audio problems
that you described. I have a Rykodisc release which is fine. I bought
it about two and a half years ago. The problem may occur only on a
certain manufacturing lot of the CD's.
My YAWYI CD: - Rykodisc Catalog Number: RCD 40165
- Has "MADE IN USA BY PDO", "818 PUMPKIN", and
"RCD40165 01!" inscribed on the track side
of the CD
- label side of the CD is black with white lettering
except for a light blue "RYKO" on it
Hopefully we can figure this out. . .
From: sjo...@plains.NoDak.edu (Bjorn Sjolli)
OK, here goes: My CD is excellent.
- EMI # CDP 7 90075 2
- Has "MASTERED BY NIMBUS" inscribed.
- Silver color with black lettering.
- Made in U.K.
*********** THE PERFECT STRANGER ***********
From: j...@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (jeffrey.j.rocca)
I have both an EMI CD and a Barking Pumpkin CD of _The Perfect
Stranger_. The music content is identical on the CDs, but the sound
quality of the Barking Pumpkin CD is far superior.
********* FZ MEETS THE MOTHERS OF PREVENTION *********
From: sun...@cs.chalmers.se (Ulf Sundin)
CD contains all of the songs of the differnt 'european' and 'american'
versions of the LP.
This means 'Porn Wars' (american version of LP)
'I don't even care' (european v)
'H.R. 2911' (europ)
'One man one vote' (europ)
From: "Ottis R." <BO...@UNB.CA>
'H.R. 2911' does not appear on the RYKO release of FZMtMoP CD.
From: fn...@panix.com (Cliff Heller)
I heard that it was incorporated into Porn Wars.
********* JAZZ FROM HELL *************
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
It's been a while since I heard the LP, but I think there is no
difference.
********* GUITAR ***********
From: sun...@cs.chalmers.se (Ulf Sundin)
12 extra guitar solos on the double CD
********* BROADWAY THE HARD WAY ***********
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
The CD contains many more songs than the vinyl but is missing the short
Confinement Loaf intro to "Dickie's Such an Asshole."
From: Mr_Gi...@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Frank exhorts the audience to register to vote during the intermission
on the vinyl version. I don't think this is on the CD...
From: pe...@scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Yes, 'tis, but the "intermission" is in the wrong place. The exhortation
to vote is at the very end of the CD.
I have no joke. I just like typing "exhortation."
**************************************************
Please, sent any comments, suggestions, corrections
to Vladimir Sovetov ( so...@bank.kemerovo.su )
- Arf she said