The a.f.f-z CDs: A non-participant's view (very long)
Bice
Stepping out of the lurker shadows...
I finally got around to ordering the a.f.f-z CDs and have had 'em long
enough to give each one a few spins. Since most of the reviews
that have been posted have been from participants, I thought maybe
there would be interest in a point of view from someone who wasn't
involved in making the CDs. A big disclaimer up front: I'm not a
musician, and I know very little about music theory. What little I
do know, I've mostly picked up from reading a.f.f-z. No formal
training of any sort. So if anyone thinks I missed the whole point
of their track, they're probably right. During the final proofreading
of this post, I came real close to just deleting it to avoid
potentially offending anyone, but what the hell - it's written, I
might as well post it.
Overall thoughts: Better than I expected, even with all the positive
reviews the set has already gotten on a.f.f-z. There's a lot of
talent on this newsgroup. Cal's artwork is really cool, now I know
what everyone meant about finding new things all the time. Was all
that stuff drawn by hand, or is some of it cut and pasted from other
sources (looks like technical manuals or something - reminds me of the
artwork in the Joe's Garage booklet). I wish that some sort of name
or title had been printed on it somewhere, but that's a very minor
gripe.
The "raw dump" format of the liner notes bugged me a little at first,
but then I realized they were suited to an internet-based project.
Might have been nice if the email headers had used a different font
from the actual liner notes to make it easier to read, but again
that's a minor gripe.
I figured out that the tracks were arranged alphabetically by artist's
first name and/or posting name, but the arrangement couldn't have
worked out any better. Nice shifting from one style of music to
another, with only a couple spots where there are similar tracks
following one another. The vocal tracks were nicely interspersed
between the instrumentals.
I was somewhat surprised that there weren't a whole lot of tracks
that sounded like FZ, and of the ones that did remind me of Zappa,
most of them reminded me of his synclavier work, not his rock songs.
Interesting...is that due to the use of MIDI and the "one-man-band"
effect?
Now on to the music...
Disc 1:
-------
Adrian Clark - Waaah! It's the Schizo Sisters!: the alphabetical
arrangement of tracks sets up a good starter song, with the quick
fade-up at the beginning. A really nice instrumental with hints
of techno, reminds me a bit of Ozric Tentacles. I particularly
like the acoustic guitar echoing the electric, and the "sproingy"
(for lack of a better word) sounding guitar in the chorus (should
that be called a chorus?)
AJ Wilkes - Fantasy Garden Through a Child's Eyes: How'd he know
my name was Bob? (see liner notes). This is just absolutely
gorgeous. New agey? Maybe, but really beautiful. So this is what
a three year old hears during moments of wonder? I'll have to
watch my daughter real close next year.
Antal Adriaanse - In Isolation/Getrommell: This one's a little more
hard-rockish than I usually go for, and I've gotta admit that it
didn't really grab me at first. The weird bits during the last
minute and a half were the first part that I liked - between 3:15
and 3:40 or so, it sounds something FZ would have used to segue
between tracks. The rest of the song has grown on me too with
repeated listens.
Michael P. Dawson - Crepuscule with Biffy: Reading the liner notes,
I had no idea what Biffy was talking about with the "whole tone
scale" and "chromatic steps", and I still don't understand it 100%,
but listening to it I think I can hear what he was going for. A neat
little (too short) track, first of the several that reminded me of
FZ's synclavier work.
Bill Leach/Tomland - Think About It Over a Joint: From the title,
I was expecting something psychedelic. But this is a nice, flowing,
jammy sort of bass/drum/guitar trio workout. Reminds me of something,
but I can't figure out what. Rush maybe? No, not Rush. A hint of
southern rock? Nah...damn, it's right on the tip of my brain. I
don't know. Good track though. Melodic.
Bossk (R) - Conditioner (Skiffle Version): Both the track and the
artist have parenthetical clauses. This one reminded me of the one
Ween album I've heard, _Pure Guava_, with the speeded up vocals and
odd lyrics. Amazingly catchy. According to the liner notes, this is
the only song Bossk ever wrote. Unbelievable - does that mean you're
not a musician, or just that you've never written anything? If the
former, then who played that cool bass line? If the latter, you
should definitely write more.
Charles Ulrich (The Pygmies) - The Pygmy Song: Sounds like
the kind of Weird Al-ish novelty song that Dr. Demento would go for,
and I see from the liner notes that he did in fact play it. The Weird
Al comparison is probably inspired by the squeezebox. Clever, funny
and catchy, but the "statutory rape" implication that the song's
narrator has sex with a Pygmy as a substitute for having sex with
children is a little disturbing. Maybe I'm reading too much into
it, or maybe being a new father is making me too sensitive.
Chet Green - Solstice to Equinox: Another good rock instrumental,
but it's a shame about the oversaturated/distorted sound. I hear at
least two guitar lines, a bass and drum machine? All played by one
person? Nice, melodic main riff, catchy...just wish the sound was a
little better.
Chris Roe - Trio Improv: I like the dark feel of the echoy rhythm
section and grinding organ. I don't want to sound mean, but the
performance (particularly the bass) sounds a little amateurish (but
then, this was a mostly "amateur" project, right? Other than Zoogz,
no one on these discs is attempting to make a living off their
music...are they?). With a bit of practice this band could be really
cool. For some reason this brought the band Magma to mind, although
it doesn't sound much like them.
Dan Buxbaum - Leftyland: This track is almost disorienting, with its
choppy patterns and cross rhythms. The liner notes say no drum
machines used - the clicking cymbals (?) in the background sound
amazingly precise for being played by hand. The repeated marimba
and bells (?) riff goes on a little longer than I can take...this
would have worked better as a shorter track IMHO. But still
a very neat piece.
Darkhop (John S. Hopkins) - Beelzebonehead: Very FZ synclavier-ish.
Kind of random sounding, but doesn't overstay its welcome at just
1 min 21 seconds long. If anything, it should be longer. Another
cool track. Wish I could think of something else to say about it.
Dennis Versteeg - The Invisible Box: Another short but sweet one,
with various overlapping/interlocking keyboard patterns creating a
bouncy, catchy melody. I can't believe it was done by a non-musician
(according to the liner notes). Really good. Hmmm, maybe I should
get a copy of Cubase and try my hand...
The Duke of Prunes - Eliot Caged: OK, I have to admit that this one
goes on *way* too long for me. It's a very cool idea - various
spoken word parts being done simultaneously in varying rhythms. The
clay pot in the background was a brilliant touch. But after about
two minutes I'm ready for this to be over...and it's only a third of
the way along. Argh. The...the...the...the...
Fred Banta - Chuckawalla: Another very good instrumental. Done
entirely with layers of synthesizers and drum machine? Upbeat and
catchy (surprising the number of catchy tunes came out of a newsgroup
dedicated to a composer with no commercial potential). Don't know
what else I can say about this one, other than that I like it.
Geir Corneliussen - Orangutan Man Meets Frankenstein: As
schizophrenic as this track sounds, believe it or not I was expecting
something even weirder (given the title, and Geir's brilliantly
off-the-wall writing style on a.f.f-z). That quote of Lucy in the Sky
with Diamonds in the background around the two minute mark was driving
me crazy because I couldn't figure out what it was. How to comment on
a track like this? It jumps all over the place, and ends up being one
of the most interesting tracks on the disc. Cool, experimental stuff.
Not something I'll probably ever get the urge to listen to on its own,
but when listening to the whole disc this track makes a nice brain
diversion when it comes on.
Graham Connah's Jettison Slinky - Sparkly: One of the few (possibly
the only) track that reminds me of Zappa's "rock" music. This one
definitely sounds like it wouldn't have been out of place on Hot Rats,
or One Size Fits All, or Roxy. Really great stuff.
Jay Jones - Tack: Blink your ears and you'll miss it. Another very
short, very cool track. Percussive. Also sounds FZ-influenced, like
a quick little piece he'd throw in between two tracks. Or maybe like
one of the "connector" tracks that Keneally used to use a lot.
Jeff Pollack (Duck and the Ponds) - Wild About You: I can honestly
say that a surf punk track was about the last thing I expected on
these CDs. Since surf and punk are pretty low on the list of musical
styles that I enjoy (just above country and rap), there's not much
I can say about this track. Well done, professional sounding, but
just not the type of music I go for at all. Sorry.
Disc 2:
-------
Jerry Hull (Dr. Jerry & the Peripherals) - Zero Sum Game: This one is
abrasively addictive. After listening to the whole set, I'm usually
left singing this one in my head. The hillbilly-accented vocals are
what really make it memorable, while at the same time making it a
little irritating. Like a commercial jingle that you can't get out of
your head. Can't we juuuuust stand down...
John Butler-Kerr (Wet Food) - Interference: For some reason, the band
name "Wet Food" seems just slightly disturbing, and so does the music.
Interesting, odd improv that for some reason reminds me a bit of King
Crimson.
John Harley - Gimme a 5th/The Death Valley Grunge Jam III: Quoting
one of the few pieces of classical music I can actually recognize at
the beginning of something called "Death Valley Grunge Jam" got a big
smile out of me. This is a pretty good hard rock jam, but to be
honest the main guitar riff is repeated a few too many times for my
tastes. If the track had been three minutes instead of 4:44, I'd
probably like it better.
Lewis Saul - Perpetual Penguin and the Cowboy: Another experimental,
orchestral-sounding track that reminds me of FZ's synclavier work.
Very ambient at the beginning and end. I think I prefer the middle
bit where there's a steady beat and rapidly swirling melodies.
Although that kind of melancholy, Tangerine-Dreamish bit towards the
end is also very nice. Good track.
Martin Higgs - Amitabha-Buddha of Infinite Light: A collection of
what sounds like randomly placed sounds, melody notes interweaving
and interacting with percussion noises. Builds a bit of structure
after a minute with multiple melody lines following each other around.
Makes a perfect follow-up to Lewis' track, continuing the feel of an
FZ synclavier track.
Michael Gula - Orchestral Rock: Beautiful. This sounds better than
about 90% of the "symphonic progressive rock" I've heard in recent
years. If you could put out a CD's worth of this type of music once
a year, you could probably almost make a living off of the
symphonic/neoprogressive fanbase.
Michael Pierry - Southington Suite: This one, I just don't know what
to say about it. Sounds like a couple college kids with a guitar, a
low-budget tape recorder and lots of beer. Why do I say that?
Because this sounds almost exactly like the stuff a friend and I once
put together in college with a cheap tape recorder and a guitar.
Actually, with repeated listens I realized more work went into the
Southington Suite that I had at first thought but...were the
recordings made with the storyline in mind, or was the story made up
to explain the music? Reminds me of the little Residents and Ween
I've heard. *Definitely* too long at 12:23...maybe it should have
ended at the break between the "Duck Factory" and "Alcoholic Love"
sections?
Nik Lowenberg - Tribute to Frank R. (Dillusions of Grandeur): An
interesting, psychedelic jam. Sounds a little rough around the edges,
but still very listenable. Almost a relief to get something this
listener-friendly after the challenge of Michael Pierry's track.
Ninja - Ronin: Another flowing, spacey sounding jam. Surprisingly
relaxing and melodic. I don't really know what I was expecting - hard
to get an idea what to expect from someone who's posts are as cryptic
as Ninja's often are. This is a very nice piece of music though.
Was this a one-man-band project, everything played by Ninja?
Patrick Neve - Dog Star Man Revisited: Whoa, the techno track of
the set. Cool as hell. The opening part reminded me a bit of the
ProjeKct Two stuff that King Crimson did. A burning guitar solo
middle section, then back into the slippery electronics. I really
like this track a lot.
Disguising Godiva - Real Good Friend/Dumb: The first time I listened
to this, I was sipping coffee and when I heard the line "I wasn't
really sure if I was gonna like it but I did" it almost made me do a
spit take. Beautifully subtle delivery of a perfect little < 1 min
long ditty. "Dumb" is also quite good, and the "a lot of people do it
and I happen to be one" line keeps the lyrics from sounding too
"preachy" (for lack of a better word). Is the flute solo a real flute
or a keyboard?
Sam Rouse - Queen's Flight: Another lush, symphonic, keyboard piece.
Michael Gula and Sam together could definitely write an album that
would sell to symphonic prog fans. Very nice track.
Steve Cobham - Death Waltz: The liner notes comment "Music for spies"
probably put this image in my head, but when I listen to this I
picture people in trenchcoats dancing a waltz on a dying carousel.
Kind of dark sounding, but does manage to achieve the "jaunty" sound
that the notes say it's striving for. Interesting track. Melodic in
slow motion.
Steve Lewis - Hubbub: Another one that reminds me of the Residents
(but that's based on the one and only Residents album that I've
heard - the compilation "Our Tired, Our Poor, Our Huddled Masses").
The foreground part sounds like a fairly standard rocker with acidic
keyboards, but then there's other layers of things going on in the
background - barely audible voices talking at different speeds, etc.
A weird track, but good.
Zoogz Rift - Asphyxiated: To be honest, I still find Zoogz's on-line
personality more than a little annoying (one of my first posts to
alt.fan.f-z, years ago, was a flame aimed at Zoogz - we resolved that
via email, but I still skip most of his posts). Anyway, despite that,
I've gotta admit that his music is pretty good. I even bought one of
his albums when I found it in a store in New Orleans...unfortunately
this song comes from that album (I was hoping to hear a Zoogz tune
on the a.f.f-z discs that I hadn't heard before). Oh well. The
repeating marimba line reminds me of Zappa, but sounds more
"minimalist" than FZ. I can take the appropriately strangled-sounding
vocals for a few minutes, but when it gets to the section where Zoogz
is just yelling "Asphyxiated!" over and over it gets...well, annoying.
Which was probably intentional. Still, the track makes a good finale
for the set, with its abrupt cut-off ending.
All in all the CDs lived up to the "hype" they've been getting on
the newsgroup. Anyone out there who's been thinking of getting them
and hasn't gotten around to it yet, get off your butt (or rather sit
down on your butt, pull the keyboard towards you) and order it.
-- Bob "Bice" Eichler, who has a lot of nerve sending a 300 line post
Charles Ulrich
> Charles Ulrich (The Pygmies) - The Pygmy Song: Sounds like
> the kind of Weird Al-ish novelty song that Dr. Demento would go for,
> and I see from the liner notes that he did in fact play it. The Weird
> Al comparison is probably inspired by the squeezebox. Clever, funny
> and catchy, but the "statutory rape" implication that the song's
> narrator has sex with a Pygmy as a substitute for having sex with
> children is a little disturbing. Maybe I'm reading too much into
> it, or maybe being a new father is making me too sensitive.
Have I offended someone?
> Chris Roe - Trio Improv: I like the dark feel of the echoy rhythm
> section and grinding organ. I don't want to sound mean, but the
> performance (particularly the bass) sounds a little amateurish (but
> then, this was a mostly "amateur" project, right? Other than Zoogz,
> no one on these discs is attempting to make a living off their
> music...are they?).
Graham Connah.
--Charles
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/18/01 2:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3ade087d.3555030@localhost>
You're a fucking idiot. There are about six good pieces in this entire 2-cd
set (and yes, one of them is mine)--the rest of it is pure PHONEY garbage.
The reason why there are no BAND recordings (as opposed to MIDI) that sound
anything like Frank is because nobody here has the balls, discipline or talent
it takes to accomplish that. MIDI is the easiest way in the world to
bluff--But composing, arranging and rehearsing a real, full band, is a whole
other ballgame. Most of the chickenshit, limped dick people in this newsgroup
wouldn't know REAL music if it came up and bit them on the ass!
Jeesh. Don't get me started.
Crawl back in your lurker hole, Sally Struthers.
Bice
wrote:
>In article <3ade087d.3555030@localhost>, eic...@epix.net wrote:
>
>> Charles Ulrich (The Pygmies) - The Pygmy Song:
[snip]
>> but the "statutory rape" implication that the song's
>> narrator has sex with a Pygmy as a substitute for having sex with
>> children is a little disturbing. Maybe I'm reading too much into
>> it, or maybe being a new father is making me too sensitive.
>
>Have I offended someone?
Not offended, no. Just a "I feel guilty for laughing at that" sort
of reaction. Same way I reacted to "Magdalena". No big deal.
>> Chris Roe - Trio Improv: I like the dark feel of the echoy rhythm
>> section and grinding organ. I don't want to sound mean, but the
>> performance (particularly the bass) sounds a little amateurish (but
>> then, this was a mostly "amateur" project, right? Other than Zoogz,
>> no one on these discs is attempting to make a living off their
>> music...are they?).
>
>Graham Connah.
Ah, that would explain why his track is so good.
-- Bob "Bice" Eichler
David Wilcher
"Bice" <eic...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:3ade087d.3555030@localhost...
>
> Sam Rouse - Queen's Flight: Another lush, symphonic, keyboard piece.
> Michael Gula and Sam together could definitely write an album that
> would sell to symphonic prog fans. Very nice track.
Hey, now there's an idea. If only Mike and Sam would kiss and make up.
dave
Charles Ulrich
He has three CDs out:
Graham Connah's Sour Note Six: My God Has Fleas (Rastascan Records)
Graham Connah's Sour Note Seven: Gurney To The Lincoln Center Of Your
Mind (Rastascan Records)
Jettison Slinky: Dank Side Of The Morn (Evander Music)
--Charles
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
>Michael P. Dawson - Crepuscule with Biffy: Reading the liner notes,
>I had no idea what Biffy was talking about with the "whole tone
>scale" and "chromatic steps", and I still don't understand it 100%,
>but listening to it I think I can hear what he was going for. A neat
>little (too short) track, first of the several that reminded me of
>FZ's synclavier work.
Thanks for the comments! The whole-tone vs. chromatic strategy is really
easy to understand. Imagine a piano with all the notes (no matter if
they're black or white) numbered. What's happening in "Crepuscule" is that
the player's right hand is following a rule that says it can only play even-
numbered notes, while the left hand is following a rule that results in even
notes alternating with odd notes. So you hear the left hand part
constantly see-sawing between "agreeing" and "disagreeing" with the right
hand part.
Of course, apart from harmonic/structural fun and games, I tried to make
it a nice tune...
Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
http://www.mp3.com/michaelpdawson
http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html
"The government has fallen into the hands of the potatoes."
--Erik Satie, 1918
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
>Jerry Hull (Dr. Jerry & the Peripherals) - Zero Sum Game: This one is
>abrasively addictive.
This one somehow reminds me of Fred Frith's "pop" album, _Cheap At
Half The Price_.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
>Sam Rouse - Queen's Flight: Another lush, symphonic, keyboard piece.
Sam of Arabia!
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
>Disguising Godiva - Real Good Friend/Dumb: The first time I listened
>to this, I was sipping coffee and when I heard the line "I wasn't
>really sure if I was gonna like it but I did" it almost made me do a
>spit take.
I was just singing these to myself on the way to the train station this
morning. This one and Bossk(r)'s and Charles Ulrich's tracks have spent
entirely too much time in my head. (Not as much as my own, though...)
Greg Carson
Liquid Moamo) wrote:
>
>
>
>You're a fucking idiot. There are about six good pieces in this entire 2-cd
>set (and yes, one of them is mine)--the rest of it is pure PHONEY garbage.
>
>The reason why there are no BAND recordings (as opposed to MIDI) that sound
>anything like Frank is because nobody here has the balls, discipline or talent
>it takes to accomplish that. MIDI is the easiest way in the world to
>bluff--But composing, arranging and rehearsing a real, full band, is a whole
>other ballgame. Most of the chickenshit, limped dick people in this newsgroup
>wouldn't know REAL music if it came up and bit them on the ass!
>
>Jeesh. Don't get me started.
>
>Crawl back in your lurker hole, Sally Struthers.
DADA or just an old music snob, you be the judge.
Sam Rouse
Wilcher" <dwil...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
I don't think the last bit is necessary - I'm not pissed at Mike, and I
doubt that he's pissed at me. There are at least a couple of problems
with this, though, the biggest being that Mike knows what he's doing,
and I don't. Queen's Flight was done entirely by ear; I don't think I
could even tell you what key it's in. The second problem is that we
live on opposite sides of the US - so I'm not sure how we'd do it.
I think it'd be great fun to attempt some kind of collaboration though,
if the logistics could be worked out and Mike has the patience of Job
with my limitations. It'd clearly be a better use of his time and
talent to work with, say, Lewis on a project like this.
That said, thanks for the kind words!
-Sam
Sam Rouse
> 2-cd
> set (and yes, one of them is mine)--the rest of it is pure PHONEY
> garbage.
What are the other five?
> The reason why there are no BAND recordings (as opposed to MIDI) that
> sound
> anything like Frank is because nobody here has the balls, discipline or
> talent
> it takes to accomplish that. MIDI is the easiest way in the world to
> bluff--But composing, arranging and rehearsing a real, full band, is a
> whole
> other ballgame. Most of the chickenshit, limped dick people in this
> newsgroup
> wouldn't know REAL music if it came up and bit them on the ass!
Zoogz, you're such a fucking elitist!
(which I have a hard time reconciling with some of your other views - I
think it's the Ayn Rand twist to your mind rearing its ugly head, but
I'm not sure...)
> Jeesh. Don't get me started.
Why not? I love it when you get wound up.
> Crawl back in your lurker hole, Sally Struthers.
Don't listen to this, "Bice" - Zoogz is just having a mood. It's a mood
he's had for years, and we love him for it.
-
Sam Rouse
> In article <3ade087d.3555030@localhost>, eic...@epix.net (Bice) wrote:
>
> >Sam Rouse - Queen's Flight: Another lush, symphonic, keyboard piece.
>
> Sam of Arabia!
No, the other working title was "Gladys of Arabia."
Patrick Neve
I've got the latter two of these and I think they're great.
They were swell live, too.
(You knew that, Charles, that was mostly for the benefit of those new to
the Graham Connah experience.)
*************************************************
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Patrick Neve
> Don't listen to this, "Bice" - Zoogz is just having a mood. It's a mood
> he's had for years, and we love him for it.
Because we have love in our hearts.
Stu Mark
> I think it'd be great fun to attempt some kind of collaboration though,
> if the logistics could be worked out and Mike has the patience of Job
> with my limitations. It'd clearly be a better use of his time and
> talent to work with, say, Lewis on a project like this.
Shit man, I've been after Louis for months to work on something. And seeing
as he's busy as <<insert comedic reference here>>, I throw it open to anyone
in the group: I'd love to work on a musical bit of art, long distance, with
anybody. While I don't know shit about music (as I've never had any real
training), I do enjoy music a lot. For a sample of my compositional
capabilities, check out http://members.aol.com/stumark10/ which should load
a MIDI file of one of my more recent pieces.
I'm just bored, not looking to make money or to become cool. So if anybody
is interested, send me an email.
For other symptoms of my boredom, check out
http://home.earthlink.net/~stumark where you can find samples of my
paintings, such as they are.
Ok, time for West Wing.
Stu
(who never misses an episode)
NP: The Imposter by Elvis Costello into Three Songs For Paper, Film and
Video by Laurie Anderson
Michael Gula
Michael Gula
> Shit man, I've been after Louis for months to work on something.
Do you mean his turkey laugh?
David Wilcher
"Biffy the Elephant Shrew" <biffy...@aol.commie.rats> wrote in message
news:20010418210803...@nso-fy.aol.com...
>
> Of course, apart from harmonic/structural fun and games, I tried to make
> it a nice tune...
It used to cut the grass, right before dark.
dave
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/18/01 7:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <samandor-729595...@enews.newsguy.com>
>
>In article <20010418193535...@ng-fq1.aol.com>,
>liqui...@aol.com (Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo) wrote:
>>
>> You're a fucking idiot. There are about six good pieces in this entire
>> 2-cd
>> set (and yes, one of them is mine)--the rest of it is pure PHONEY
>> garbage.
>
>What are the other five?
>
I don't remember, since I almost never listen to it anymore. Biffy's was one
of them, Lewis Saul (I think), a few others. I honestly don't remember them,
but the band stuff was definitely better than most of the MIDI "dribbling
keyboard" nonsense.
>> The reason why there are no BAND recordings (as opposed to MIDI) that
>> sound
>> anything like Frank is because nobody here has the balls, discipline or
>> talent
>> it takes to accomplish that. MIDI is the easiest way in the world to
>> bluff--But composing, arranging and rehearsing a real, full band, is a
>> whole
>> other ballgame. Most of the chickenshit, limped dick people in this
>> newsgroup
>> wouldn't know REAL music if it came up and bit them on the ass!
>
>Zoogz, you're such a fucking elitist!
>
>(which I have a hard time reconciling with some of your other views - I
>think it's the Ayn Rand twist to your mind rearing its ugly head, but
>I'm not sure...)
>
Nonsense.
I'm not beling "elitist" by any definition of the word--I merely have dedicated
my life to the exploration of music and musics--and I now have over thirty
years of hands-on experience and hard work behind me. There IS such a thing as
"good music" and "bad music." Good music has INTELLECT, STRUCTURE, PLANNING,
DISCIPLINE and LEGIT EFFORT behind it. It involves skill, as well as good
intentions. Good intentions, or throwing some shit together just to assure one
a place on the damn compilation is NOT justification for that same person
masquerading as a "composer" or "artist." Let's call a spade a spade---and
garbage GARBAGE...
"No masterpiece was ever created by a lazy artist." --Salvador Dali
>> Jeesh. Don't get me started.
>
>Why not? I love it when you get wound up.
>
>> Crawl back in your lurker hole, Sally Struthers.
>
>Don't listen to this, "Bice" - Zoogz is just having a mood. It's a mood
>he's had for years, and we love him for it.
I'm in a perpetual bad mood because a) I don't have a woman in my life anymore;
b) I'm dead broke because people prefer to support CRAP (BAD) music instead of
my own--people's taste, tolerance and attraction to
>>>>>>>> CHEESE <<<<<<<
========
is grotesque and pathetic--and consequently DEPRESSING AS HELL; c) I'm now
seriously disabled and I resent it; and d) because I live in a world of
savages, hypocrites, liars, thieves, phoneys and retards--I know it's hard to
understand SUCH AN ELITIST ATTITUDE, but I do resent these characteristics, and
I refuse to quietly sit by LIKE MOST OF YOU COWARDS and watch it all happen
WITHOUT COMMENT. I'm a composer and a writer--an observer--and I report what I
see, satirize it, and constructively try to fix whatever needs fixing. I try
using humor to do this--but I frequently feel like I'm talking to a bag of
hair...
Stu Mark
>> Shit man, I've been after Louis for months to work on something.
>
> Do you mean his turkey laugh?
No, the Brad Pitt character from Interview With The Vampire.
Stu
(who thinks we've had this conversation before)
NP: Chinese Checkers by Booker T.
Sam Rouse
> I'm not beling "elitist" by any definition of the word--I merely have
> dedicated
> my life to the exploration of music and musics--and I now have over
> thirty
> years of hands-on experience and hard work behind me. There IS such a
> thing as
> "good music" and "bad music." Good music has INTELLECT, STRUCTURE,
> PLANNING,
> DISCIPLINE and LEGIT EFFORT behind it. It involves skill, as well as
> good
> intentions.
I mostly agree, so far...
> Good intentions, or throwing some shit together just to
> assure one
> a place on the damn compilation is NOT justification for that same person
> masquerading as a "composer" or "artist." Let's call a spade a
> spade---and
> garbage GARBAGE...
This part is bullshit. This was a hobby project, fer chrissakes! Most
contributions to the set were committed to tape before there was any
possibility of an aff-z CD being made. You seem to be saying that
unless one is willing to devote one's life to music, one shouldn't
bother trying, and anyone who finds anything enjoyable about such an
amateur creation is by definition a cretin.
That sounds like elitism to me.
> "No masterpiece was ever created by a lazy artist." --Salvador Dali
Who said anything about masterpieces? Should nothing less be heard (or
said, or painted, or enjoyed)?
(Side note, FWIW - wasn't Dali a Fascist supporter?)
<snippage>
> I live in a world of
> savages, hypocrites, liars, thieves, phoneys and retards--I know it's
> hard to
> understand SUCH AN ELITIST ATTITUDE, but I do resent these
> characteristics, and
> I refuse to quietly sit by LIKE MOST OF YOU COWARDS and watch it all
> happen
> WITHOUT COMMENT.
I'm commenting right now, rather than sitting by, but suspect you may
not like my commentary.
> I'm a composer and a writer--an observer--and I report
> what I
> see, satirize it, and constructively try to fix whatever needs fixing. I
> try
> using humor to do this--but I frequently feel like I'm talking to a bag
> of
> hair...
Me too, in my own way.
-Sam
Dennis Versteeg
Liquid Moamo) brought the following to our attention:
>The reason why there are no BAND recordings (as opposed to MIDI) that sound
>anything like Frank is because nobody here has the balls, discipline or talent
>it takes to accomplish that. MIDI is the easiest way in the world to
>bluff--But composing, arranging and rehearsing a real, full band, is a whole
>other ballgame. Most of the chickenshit, limped dick people in this newsgroup
>wouldn't know REAL music if it came up and bit them on the ass!
Most people on this newsgroup actually have a life and don't have the
time to rehearse a full band, etc.. Without MIDI, my track wouldn't
have existed. Would the world be a better or worse place? I don't
know, but several people said they enjoyed listening to it and I
enjoyed making it. Isn't that enough?
Most people on this newsgroup realize that this is an amateur project
and can appreciate for what it is. What we have is an extremely varied
bunch of songs in which many people put a lot of effort and
dedication. Apperently you can't deal with this variety styles and
varying degrees of talents and recording techniques. I'm sorry for
you that you are that limited.
Most people on this newsgroup actually have the ability to say
something positive about other people than just whine. I'm not asking
for everyone to be happy and dancing arounfd, just realism would be
nice once in a while.
Most people on this newsgroup have a more varied taste in music,
instead of worshipping Zappa as a musical god and claiming everyhting
else is crap. If this project would have been full of Zappa-wannabe's
then it would have been boring and since no-one on this group actually
is Zappa, it would have been a second or third degree copy of his
music, which in my opinion would be an insult to FZ. I think he
himself would have appreciated that his fans are a bunch of
individuals with their own style instead of a bunch of bad clones.
And I personally cannot enjoy your track. Musically it's very good,
but everytime I play it I usually turn it off before it's over because
I get this annoying vision of a wining loser and combined with those
smurf vocals I always realize I'd rather be listening to something
else.
dennis
-----
"As you can see," Smith was saying as we walked down
a long and fairly rickety flight of metal stairs,
"they've just about frabjulated the primary phase
of the osmosifractionating de-hoo-dooer. And those
guys rattatting the willy-nilly say they ought to
have it whistling Dixie in three days' time."
from: John Varley - Steel Beach
(now that's impressive science for a sci-fi novel!)
INEMM
d.j.ve...@removethistoreply.tue.nl (Dennis Versteeg) wrote:
>On 18 Apr 2001 23:35:35 GMT, liqui...@aol.com (Zoogz Rift - The
>Liquid Moamo) brought the following to our attention:
>And I personally cannot enjoy your track. Musically it's very good,
>but everytime I play it I usually turn it off before it's over because
>I get this annoying vision of a wining loser and combined with those
>smurf vocals I always realize I'd rather be listening to something
>else.
>
>dennis
Zappa was a different animal than Zoogz. The format, was a
professional, and an independent businessman. Someone who didn't
need anyone to kick him in the ass, to record 50 albums or whatever
is was, over a period of 30 years, and to teach himself composition,
and whatever else was needed on the business side, the music side
and on the customer service or audience side.
Zoogz, on the other hand, doesn't care or can't cope/deal/figure out
the customer/audience side, and can't deal with being a
professional. It's painting, then wrestling, then making porno phone
recordings, then music, then pumping gas at a gas station, etcetera
- probably all jobs he got fired from, until he moved from Jersey,
to out West, where he probably got fired all over again, in all
those occupations, although maybe not in that order. And on the
business side, there's Dr. Scialli getting milked for every penny
he's got, in order to feed his ego and sense of humor. At least it
keeps another nut off the streets, and out of the jails.
Geir Corneliussen
> Geir Corneliussen - Orangutan Man Meets Frankenstein: As
> schizophrenic as this track sounds, believe it or not I was expecting
> something even weirder (given the title, and Geir's brilliantly
> off-the-wall writing style on a.f.f-z). That quote of Lucy in the Sky
> with Diamonds in the background around the two minute mark was driving
> me crazy because I couldn't figure out what it was. How to comment on
> a track like this? It jumps all over the place, and ends up being one
> of the most interesting tracks on the disc. Cool, experimental stuff.
Thanks man. The track is a mix of live, synth and computer, cut and
pasted together, inspired by Zappas razorblade editing. Cool some people
like my stuntwriting style too. I write for fun. Why write something
boring? The microscopic LSD sketch in there is played on a different
scale. It's well done you even figured it out since it's under a layer
of white noise as well. I won't call that track experimental. All my
other stuff is even worse.
--
Geir
Friendly Little Finger FZ Links
http://home.online.no/~corneliu/zappa.html
300 handy Zappa Links sorted into groups
Geir Corneliussen
And think Jesus is cool.
Adrian Clark
> I finally got around to ordering the a.f.f-z CDs and have had 'em long
> enough to give each one a few spins. Since most of the reviews
> that have been posted have been from participants, I thought maybe
> there would be interest in a point of view from someone who wasn't
> involved in making the CDs. A big disclaimer up front: I'm not a
> musician, and I know very little about music theory.
I'd far rather hear reviews of my music from non-musicians... they're
more likely to be honest about what they hear, rather than what they
know of the mechanics.
> Adrian Clark - Waaah! It's the Schizo Sisters!: the alphabetical
> arrangement of tracks sets up a good starter song, with the quick
> fade-up at the beginning. A really nice instrumental with hints
> of techno, reminds me a bit of Ozric Tentacles. I particularly
> like the acoustic guitar echoing the electric, and the "sproingy"
> (for lack of a better word) sounding guitar in the chorus (should
> that be called a chorus?)
You can call it whatever you like, Bob! Thanks for the kind words... I'd
never thought of an Ozrics link, but I see what you mean.
Adrian
--
**** THE SPAGHETTI FACTORY: http://www.spaghetti-factory.co.uk ****
**** NOW AT MP3.COM: http://www.mp3.com/spaghettifactory/ ****
********* AND... http://www.mp3.com/spaghetti96/ **********
Darkhop Sr.
> Darkhop (John S. Hopkins) - Beelzebonehead: Very FZ synclavier-ish.
> Kind of random sounding, but doesn't overstay its welcome at just
> 1 min 21 seconds long. If anything, it should be longer. Another
> cool track.
Thanks. It's short because when it got to 1:21 the brain refused to come
up with anything else to throw at it.
> Wish I could think of something else to say about it.
<basks in glow of sweet success>
> -- Bob "Bice" Eichler, who has a lot of nerve sending a 300 line post
It makes up for all that lurking.
/JSH -- behind you!
darkhop at home dot com, OK?
"It's a sin to believe evil of others,
but it is seldom a mistake." --Mencken
Steve Cobham
>Steve Cobham - Death Waltz: The liner notes comment "Music for spies"
>probably put this image in my head, but when I listen to this I
>picture people in trenchcoats dancing a waltz on a dying carousel.
Wow, that is creepy.
The carousel idea was going on in my head whilst I was writing it.
The film "The Quiller Memorandum" sparked the whole thing off with the
spies idea. I saw it after the Berlin Wall came down and it was a sort
of "Goodbye Cold War" salute - guess I spoke too soon........
I also had the carousel in Ray Bradbury's "Something Wicked This Way
Comes" in mind.
>Kind of dark sounding, but does manage to achieve the "jaunty" sound
>that the notes say it's striving for. Interesting track. Melodic in
>slow motion.
I really like Klezmer music - a minor key with an "up" feel to the
melody. Gets me everytime.
Also, just for the record, there was no MIDI used at any time.
The drums were an old Roland TR505 playing a simple waltz pattern just
looped and the keyboards were all played in real time - even the
sequenced sounding bits. Everything was played by myself and recorded
on a Tascam Porta One - with *lots* of bounces.
And so what if MIDI had been used? Sure, I'd have liked to have
recorded it with a band, but it was for my own amusement. I simply
didn't and don't have enough time to form a band just to play my own
material, being involved pretty heavily with two bands already as well
as my guitar teaching just trying to earn a living from music.
Besides, MIDI is just a tool to produce music - a tool like a sax, a
guitar or a violin.
Well-employed it can sound amazing - badly-used it can souns like
shite.
Likewise a guitar, a sax or a violin.
Maybe Zoogz (for whom I have a lot of respect) was just stirring
things up trying to get us to think - not always a bad thing - but it
came over a little mean-spirited in tone.
So we're not all mini-Franks:
>>>no BAND recordings (as opposed to MIDI) that sound
>>>anything like Frank
- who said we should be and would FZ himself have wanted that?
Why on earth should we sound like Frank?
I don't think that even Zoogz can answer that one.
Many thanks for posting so constructively, Bice.
Also, many thanks to everyone involved with the project and those who
have listened to it.
It was and is a neat idea and it just is what it is.
Steve.
================================================
Guitar and bass tuition - all styles and levels.
http://users.powernet.co.uk/guitars/tuition.htm
E-mail: st...@XSPAMXguitarsXMAPSX.powernet.co.uk
(Please remove obvious spam deterrent)
Interested in Zappa? Guitar? Beer?
Save money by setting up your own guitar!
How about trading Zappa and Danny Gatton tapes?
http://users.powernet.co.uk/guitars/
Heb de Latz und schpill dini Gitare.
================================================
Ron Spiegelhalter
> (shnippy-doo)
> Disguising Godiva - Real Good Friend/Dumb: The first time I listened
> to this, I was sipping coffee and when I heard the line "I wasn't
> really sure if I was gonna like it but I did" it almost made me do a
> long ditty. "Dumb" is also quite good, and the "a lot of people do it
> and I happen to be one" line keeps the lyrics from sounding too
> "preachy" (for lack of a better word). Is the flute solo a real flute
> or a keyboard?
Keyboard. That solo was a nightmare. Our man wasn't coming up with
anything fitting, so I ended up writing the first and third phrases and
letting him take it from there. He didn't want to work with me again after
that, sadly.
Thanks for the very kind words, Bob!
ron
Ron Spiegelhalter
> >From: Sam Rouse sama...@newsguy.com
> >liqui...@aol.com (Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo) wrote:
> >>
> >> You're a fucking idiot. There are about six good pieces in this entire
> >> 2-cd
> >> set (and yes, one of them is mine)--the rest of it is pure PHONEY
> >> garbage.
> >
> >What are the other five?
>
>
> I don't remember, since I almost never listen to it anymore. Biffy's was
one
> of them, Lewis Saul (I think), a few others. I honestly don't remember
them,
> but the band stuff was definitely better than most of the MIDI "dribbling
> keyboard" nonsense.
And yet, if I'm not mistaken, the two tracks you named are both MIDI
tracks...maybe I'm missing the point.
For what it's worth, I really like your track, Zoogz. I imagine that's
worth zero, however.
ron
Ron Spiegelhalter
> In article <3ade087d.3555030@localhost>, eic...@epix.net (Bice) wrote:
>
> >Disguising Godiva - Real Good Friend/Dumb: The first time I listened
> >to this, I was sipping coffee and when I heard the line "I wasn't
> >really sure if I was gonna like it but I did" it almost made me do a
> >spit take.
>
> I was just singing these to myself on the way to the train station this
> morning. This one and Bossk(r)'s and Charles Ulrich's tracks have spent
> entirely too much time in my head. (Not as much as my own, though...)
Wow, that means an enormous lot to me. Thank you Biffy.
enormous lot?
ron
Patrick Neve
>>From: Sam Rouse sama...@newsguy.com
>>Date: 4/18/01 7:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <samandor-729595...@enews.newsguy.com>
>>In article <20010418193535...@ng-fq1.aol.com>,
>>liqui...@aol.com (Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo) wrote:
>>>
>>> You're a fucking idiot. There are about six good pieces in this entire
>>> 2-cd
>>> set (and yes, one of them is mine)--the rest of it is pure PHONEY
>>> garbage.
>>
>>What are the other five?
>>
>I don't remember, since I almost never listen to it anymore. Biffy's was one
>of them, Lewis Saul (I think), a few others.
But... those are both keyboard pieces. I suppose you don't like Zappa's
Synclavier stuff either. I suppose you've never used keyboards in your own
bands. There's nothing inherently evil about keyboards or midi.
>>> The reason why there are no BAND recordings (as opposed to MIDI) that
>>> sound
>>> anything like Frank is because nobody here has the balls, discipline or
>>> talent
>>> it takes to accomplish that.
It was never the point to sound like Frank Zappa. The point was for everyone to
send in their tapes and I would accept them no matter how good or bad. It was
never about good or bad. It was to be an honest representation of the efforts by
this group, kind of an online talent show. Hit the gong all you want. Obviously
it's going to be a mixed bag, I knew it would be from the start. By my
selection process, how could it be anything else?
>There IS such a thing as
>"good music" and "bad music."
Certainly not in absolute objective terms. I could quote Zappa to support this
til I'm blue in the face, but the ultimate reality is that its a matter of
subjective opinion. Any other view is definitively elitist.
>Good music has INTELLECT, STRUCTURE, PLANNING,
>DISCIPLINE and LEGIT EFFORT behind it.
So does "bad" music.
>It involves skill, as well as good
>intentions. Good intentions, or throwing some shit together just to assure one
>a place on the damn compilation is NOT justification for that same person
>masquerading as a "composer" or "artist." Let's call a spade a spade---and
>garbage GARBAGE...
What is a composer? Someone who arranges stuff. What is an artist? Someone
who practices an art, such as composition. It says nothing about the subjective
value of the art itself.
*************************************************
Splat's Zappa Page
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Geir Corneliussen
> Why on earth should we sound like Frank?
My nephew said it sounded like Zappa when he heard the CD's. But that's
much because of all the amusing weirdness floating around.
> Many thanks for posting so constructively, Bice.
>
> Also, many thanks to everyone involved with the project and those who
> have listened to it.
>
> It was and is a neat idea and it just is what it is.
It was super-nice. Reviews are always welcome, especially if they think
my own piece rocks :) Send them in folks! Thanks Bice!
Geir Corneliussen
> What is a composer? Someone who arranges stuff. What is an artist? Someone
> who practices an art, such as composition. It says nothing about the subjective
> value of the art itself.
It always boils down to the ultimate answer: Taste.
Ron Spiegelhalter
> Patrick Neve wrote:
>
> > What is a composer? Someone who arranges stuff. What is an artist?
Someone
> > who practices an art, such as composition. It says nothing about the
subjective
> > value of the art itself.
>
> It always boils down to the ultimate answer: Taste.
Thus the recommended grain of salt...
ron
Patrick Neve
>Stepping out of the lurker shadows...
..and starting one entertaining thread!
>Cal's artwork is really cool, now I know
>what everyone meant about finding new things all the time. Was all
>that stuff drawn by hand, or is some of it cut and pasted from other
>sources (looks like technical manuals or something - reminds me of the
>artwork in the Joe's Garage booklet).
Except I don't think Calvin did the artwork on Joe's Garage, although he should
have, it was obviously done in his style.
>I wish that some sort of name
>or title had been printed on it somewhere, but that's a very minor
>gripe.
What happened is that the title selection went to a group discussion and at that
point there was no hope of any kind of large scale agreement. Peronally I liked
the graphic that Cal posted on the project page: http://www.ralf.com/CD/
Sort of a mixed up version of some of the more popular would-be titles. I would
have liked to have seen that on the cover, but "1" and "2" suits it fine.
>The "raw dump" format of the liner notes bugged me a little at first,
>but then I realized they were suited to an internet-based project.
I wasn't into that at first, but Cal talked me into it and I fell in love with
the idea. Before Calvin was involved to that point, I was planning on just
typing it all up and keeping it "straight". Calvin said if he was involved he
didn't want anything about it to be "straight", and how could I argue? It's so
much better because of it.
>I figured out that the tracks were arranged alphabetically by artist's
>first name and/or posting name, but the arrangement couldn't have
>worked out any better. Nice shifting from one style of music to
>another, with only a couple spots where there are similar tracks
>following one another. The vocal tracks were nicely interspersed
>between the instrumentals.
Thank you! It came out of my only method of keeping all the source tapes in
order. All these different formats came in, cassettes, CD's, dats, LP's, and
the only way I could keep track of them was to throw them in a hug box with
alphabetical dividers. I kept a word file with the same filing system so I
could compile the liner notes. Then I transferred and mastered them in the same
order. The whole time I was wondering how to decide on a track order, and as I
was listening to them in the order that you now have, it became evident that it
made sense on a couple of levels. One, as you suggested, it was a bit
serendipitous that it did happen to flow as a project. I thought the first
track started off with a bang, the tracks did flow more or less stylistically
into the next, with only a couple of exceptions, and it ended with a good strong
tune (despite the fact that no midi was involved.) I don't think I could have
arranged it better. The other reason, and if i remember correctly I had to sort
of talk Cal into this one, was that to keep it as an index was somehow a more
honest representation of the compilation as a whole, and that not specifically
drawing attention to the track order was itself an artistic decision. Also not
giving preferential treatment to anyone's track placement kept in line with the
"noone is refused" acceptance policy.
>Now on to the music...
I don't need to comment any further, I mostly agree with the following reviews,
and I can only thank you for buying and listening to this project, and for
posting your review.
-Patrick
>Disc 1:
>-------
>
>Adrian Clark - Waaah! It's the Schizo Sisters!: the alphabetical
>arrangement of tracks sets up a good starter song, with the quick
>fade-up at the beginning. A really nice instrumental with hints
>of techno, reminds me a bit of Ozric Tentacles. I particularly
>like the acoustic guitar echoing the electric, and the "sproingy"
>(for lack of a better word) sounding guitar in the chorus (should
>that be called a chorus?)
>
>AJ Wilkes - Fantasy Garden Through a Child's Eyes: How'd he know
>my name was Bob? (see liner notes). This is just absolutely
>gorgeous. New agey? Maybe, but really beautiful. So this is what
>a three year old hears during moments of wonder? I'll have to
>watch my daughter real close next year.
>
>Antal Adriaanse - In Isolation/Getrommell: This one's a little more
>hard-rockish than I usually go for, and I've gotta admit that it
>didn't really grab me at first. The weird bits during the last
>minute and a half were the first part that I liked - between 3:15
>and 3:40 or so, it sounds something FZ would have used to segue
>between tracks. The rest of the song has grown on me too with
>repeated listens.
>
>Michael P. Dawson - Crepuscule with Biffy: Reading the liner notes,
>I had no idea what Biffy was talking about with the "whole tone
>scale" and "chromatic steps", and I still don't understand it 100%,
>but listening to it I think I can hear what he was going for. A neat
>little (too short) track, first of the several that reminded me of
>FZ's synclavier work.
>
>Bill Leach/Tomland - Think About It Over a Joint: From the title,
>I was expecting something psychedelic. But this is a nice, flowing,
>jammy sort of bass/drum/guitar trio workout. Reminds me of something,
>but I can't figure out what. Rush maybe? No, not Rush. A hint of
>southern rock? Nah...damn, it's right on the tip of my brain. I
>don't know. Good track though. Melodic.
>
>Bossk (R) - Conditioner (Skiffle Version): Both the track and the
>artist have parenthetical clauses. This one reminded me of the one
>Ween album I've heard, _Pure Guava_, with the speeded up vocals and
>odd lyrics. Amazingly catchy. According to the liner notes, this is
>the only song Bossk ever wrote. Unbelievable - does that mean you're
>not a musician, or just that you've never written anything? If the
>former, then who played that cool bass line? If the latter, you
>should definitely write more.
>
>Charles Ulrich (The Pygmies) - The Pygmy Song: Sounds like
>the kind of Weird Al-ish novelty song that Dr. Demento would go for,
>and I see from the liner notes that he did in fact play it. The Weird
>Al comparison is probably inspired by the squeezebox. Clever, funny
>and catchy, but the "statutory rape" implication that the song's
>narrator has sex with a Pygmy as a substitute for having sex with
>children is a little disturbing. Maybe I'm reading too much into
>it, or maybe being a new father is making me too sensitive.
>
>Chet Green - Solstice to Equinox: Another good rock instrumental,
>but it's a shame about the oversaturated/distorted sound. I hear at
>least two guitar lines, a bass and drum machine? All played by one
>person? Nice, melodic main riff, catchy...just wish the sound was a
>little better.
>
>Chris Roe - Trio Improv: I like the dark feel of the echoy rhythm
>section and grinding organ. I don't want to sound mean, but the
>performance (particularly the bass) sounds a little amateurish (but
>then, this was a mostly "amateur" project, right? Other than Zoogz,
>no one on these discs is attempting to make a living off their
>music...are they?). With a bit of practice this band could be really
>cool. For some reason this brought the band Magma to mind, although
>it doesn't sound much like them.
>
>Dan Buxbaum - Leftyland: This track is almost disorienting, with its
>choppy patterns and cross rhythms. The liner notes say no drum
>machines used - the clicking cymbals (?) in the background sound
>amazingly precise for being played by hand. The repeated marimba
>and bells (?) riff goes on a little longer than I can take...this
>would have worked better as a shorter track IMHO. But still
>a very neat piece.
>
>Darkhop (John S. Hopkins) - Beelzebonehead: Very FZ synclavier-ish.
>Kind of random sounding, but doesn't overstay its welcome at just
>1 min 21 seconds long. If anything, it should be longer. Another
>cool track. Wish I could think of something else to say about it.
>
>Dennis Versteeg - The Invisible Box: Another short but sweet one,
>with various overlapping/interlocking keyboard patterns creating a
>bouncy, catchy melody. I can't believe it was done by a non-musician
>(according to the liner notes). Really good. Hmmm, maybe I should
>get a copy of Cubase and try my hand...
>
>The Duke of Prunes - Eliot Caged: OK, I have to admit that this one
>goes on *way* too long for me. It's a very cool idea - various
>spoken word parts being done simultaneously in varying rhythms. The
>clay pot in the background was a brilliant touch. But after about
>two minutes I'm ready for this to be over...and it's only a third of
>the way along. Argh. The...the...the...the...
>
>Fred Banta - Chuckawalla: Another very good instrumental. Done
>entirely with layers of synthesizers and drum machine? Upbeat and
>catchy (surprising the number of catchy tunes came out of a newsgroup
>dedicated to a composer with no commercial potential). Don't know
>what else I can say about this one, other than that I like it.
>
>Geir Corneliussen - Orangutan Man Meets Frankenstein: As
>schizophrenic as this track sounds, believe it or not I was expecting
>something even weirder (given the title, and Geir's brilliantly
>off-the-wall writing style on a.f.f-z). That quote of Lucy in the Sky
>with Diamonds in the background around the two minute mark was driving
>me crazy because I couldn't figure out what it was. How to comment on
>a track like this? It jumps all over the place, and ends up being one
>of the most interesting tracks on the disc. Cool, experimental stuff.
>
>Not something I'll probably ever get the urge to listen to on its own,
>but when listening to the whole disc this track makes a nice brain
>diversion when it comes on.
>
>Graham Connah's Jettison Slinky - Sparkly: One of the few (possibly
>the only) track that reminds me of Zappa's "rock" music. This one
>definitely sounds like it wouldn't have been out of place on Hot Rats,
>or One Size Fits All, or Roxy. Really great stuff.
>
>Jay Jones - Tack: Blink your ears and you'll miss it. Another very
>short, very cool track. Percussive. Also sounds FZ-influenced, like
>a quick little piece he'd throw in between two tracks. Or maybe like
>one of the "connector" tracks that Keneally used to use a lot.
>
>Jeff Pollack (Duck and the Ponds) - Wild About You: I can honestly
>say that a surf punk track was about the last thing I expected on
>these CDs. Since surf and punk are pretty low on the list of musical
>styles that I enjoy (just above country and rap), there's not much
>I can say about this track. Well done, professional sounding, but
>just not the type of music I go for at all. Sorry.
>
>Disc 2:
>-------
>
>Jerry Hull (Dr. Jerry & the Peripherals) - Zero Sum Game: This one is
>abrasively addictive. After listening to the whole set, I'm usually
>left singing this one in my head. The hillbilly-accented vocals are
>what really make it memorable, while at the same time making it a
>little irritating. Like a commercial jingle that you can't get out of
>your head. Can't we juuuuust stand down...
>
>John Butler-Kerr (Wet Food) - Interference: For some reason, the band
>name "Wet Food" seems just slightly disturbing, and so does the music.
>Interesting, odd improv that for some reason reminds me a bit of King
>Crimson.
>
>John Harley - Gimme a 5th/The Death Valley Grunge Jam III: Quoting
>one of the few pieces of classical music I can actually recognize at
>the beginning of something called "Death Valley Grunge Jam" got a big
>smile out of me. This is a pretty good hard rock jam, but to be
>honest the main guitar riff is repeated a few too many times for my
>tastes. If the track had been three minutes instead of 4:44, I'd
>probably like it better.
>
>Lewis Saul - Perpetual Penguin and the Cowboy: Another experimental,
>orchestral-sounding track that reminds me of FZ's synclavier work.
>Very ambient at the beginning and end. I think I prefer the middle
>bit where there's a steady beat and rapidly swirling melodies.
>Although that kind of melancholy, Tangerine-Dreamish bit towards the
>end is also very nice. Good track.
>
>Martin Higgs - Amitabha-Buddha of Infinite Light: A collection of
>what sounds like randomly placed sounds, melody notes interweaving
>and interacting with percussion noises. Builds a bit of structure
>after a minute with multiple melody lines following each other around.
>Makes a perfect follow-up to Lewis' track, continuing the feel of an
>FZ synclavier track.
>
>Michael Gula - Orchestral Rock: Beautiful. This sounds better than
>about 90% of the "symphonic progressive rock" I've heard in recent
>years. If you could put out a CD's worth of this type of music once
>a year, you could probably almost make a living off of the
>symphonic/neoprogressive fanbase.
>
>Michael Pierry - Southington Suite: This one, I just don't know what
>to say about it. Sounds like a couple college kids with a guitar, a
>low-budget tape recorder and lots of beer. Why do I say that?
>Because this sounds almost exactly like the stuff a friend and I once
>put together in college with a cheap tape recorder and a guitar.
>Actually, with repeated listens I realized more work went into the
>Southington Suite that I had at first thought but...were the
>recordings made with the storyline in mind, or was the story made up
>to explain the music? Reminds me of the little Residents and Ween
>I've heard. *Definitely* too long at 12:23...maybe it should have
>ended at the break between the "Duck Factory" and "Alcoholic Love"
>sections?
>
>Nik Lowenberg - Tribute to Frank R. (Dillusions of Grandeur): An
>interesting, psychedelic jam. Sounds a little rough around the edges,
>but still very listenable. Almost a relief to get something this
>listener-friendly after the challenge of Michael Pierry's track.
>
>Ninja - Ronin: Another flowing, spacey sounding jam. Surprisingly
>relaxing and melodic. I don't really know what I was expecting - hard
>to get an idea what to expect from someone who's posts are as cryptic
>as Ninja's often are. This is a very nice piece of music though.
>Was this a one-man-band project, everything played by Ninja?
>
>Patrick Neve - Dog Star Man Revisited: Whoa, the techno track of
>the set. Cool as hell. The opening part reminded me a bit of the
>ProjeKct Two stuff that King Crimson did. A burning guitar solo
>middle section, then back into the slippery electronics. I really
>like this track a lot.
>
>Disguising Godiva - Real Good Friend/Dumb: The first time I listened
>to this, I was sipping coffee and when I heard the line "I wasn't
>really sure if I was gonna like it but I did" it almost made me do a
>spit take. Beautifully subtle delivery of a perfect little < 1 min
>long ditty. "Dumb" is also quite good, and the "a lot of people do it
>and I happen to be one" line keeps the lyrics from sounding too
>"preachy" (for lack of a better word). Is the flute solo a real flute
>or a keyboard?
>
>Sam Rouse - Queen's Flight: Another lush, symphonic, keyboard piece.
>Michael Gula and Sam together could definitely write an album that
>would sell to symphonic prog fans. Very nice track.
>
>Steve Cobham - Death Waltz: The liner notes comment "Music for spies"
>probably put this image in my head, but when I listen to this I
>picture people in trenchcoats dancing a waltz on a dying carousel.
>Kind of dark sounding, but does manage to achieve the "jaunty" sound
>that the notes say it's striving for. Interesting track. Melodic in
>slow motion.
>
>Steve Lewis - Hubbub: Another one that reminds me of the Residents
>(but that's based on the one and only Residents album that I've
>heard - the compilation "Our Tired, Our Poor, Our Huddled Masses").
>The foreground part sounds like a fairly standard rocker with acidic
>keyboards, but then there's other layers of things going on in the
>background - barely audible voices talking at different speeds, etc.
>A weird track, but good.
>
>Zoogz Rift - Asphyxiated: To be honest, I still find Zoogz's on-line
>personality more than a little annoying (one of my first posts to
>alt.fan.f-z, years ago, was a flame aimed at Zoogz - we resolved that
>via email, but I still skip most of his posts). Anyway, despite that,
>I've gotta admit that his music is pretty good. I even bought one of
>his albums when I found it in a store in New Orleans...unfortunately
>this song comes from that album (I was hoping to hear a Zoogz tune
>on the a.f.f-z discs that I hadn't heard before). Oh well. The
>repeating marimba line reminds me of Zappa, but sounds more
>"minimalist" than FZ. I can take the appropriately strangled-sounding
>vocals for a few minutes, but when it gets to the section where Zoogz
>is just yelling "Asphyxiated!" over and over it gets...well, annoying.
>
>Which was probably intentional. Still, the track makes a good finale
>for the set, with its abrupt cut-off ending.
>
>
>All in all the CDs lived up to the "hype" they've been getting on
>the newsgroup. Anyone out there who's been thinking of getting them
>and hasn't gotten around to it yet, get off your butt (or rather sit
>down on your butt, pull the keyboard towards you) and order it.
>
>-- Bob "Bice" Eichler, who has a lot of nerve sending a 300 line post
>
*************************************************
Darkhop Sr.
[--]
> Besides, MIDI is just a tool to produce music - a tool like a sax, a
> guitar or a violin.
>
> Well-employed it can sound amazing - badly-used it can souns like
> shite.
>
> Likewise a guitar, a sax or a violin.
>
> Maybe Zoogz (for whom I have a lot of respect) was just stirring
> things up trying to get us to think - not always a bad thing - but it
> came over a little mean-spirited in tone.
Sam nailed it when he called it a hobby project. We all wanted to hear
each other's stuff, basically, and didn't consider it a launching
platform for our Brilliant Careers.
> It was and is a neat idea and it just is what it is.
Yep. Luckily I didn't think to contribute the piece that quotes about
seven different Deep Purple tunes.......
/JSH
jeff
verbiages to audio tape, cut and paste it randomly into so much chop
suey, (Zoogz should do the editing) throw in some farm animals sound
effects, call it "Critics Choice" and mail copies to Creem and
Crawdaddy for review, for our press kit.
Patrick Neve
You're hired, get on it.
*************************************************
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Lewis R. Saul
should
> have, it was obviously done in his style.
When I spoke with Cal about this, he was nothing but extremely complimentary
towards John Williams. When I pulled out the original "motif-idea" [all
those 19th-cent.-type drawings, diagrams, etc...] from Lumpy Gravy to
contrast and compare, he just smiled...
Bice
Liquid Moamo) wrote:
>
>You're a fucking idiot.
Thanks. I feel like I've accomplished something with my life now.
I've achived the title of "fucking idiot" from the mighty Zoogz.
>Jeesh. Don't get me started.
I didn't intend to and am sorry I did.
>Crawl back in your lurker hole, Sally Struthers.
Put her up to your hole. Put Sally Struthers up to your
lurker hole. (I just wrote that because I know how much
people quoting Zappa annoys Zoogz).
BTW, learn how to trim quoted text, for christ's sake.
-- Bob "Bice" Eichler
Bice
<sp...@darkwing.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>In article <3ade087d.3555030@localhost>, eic...@epix.net says...
>>Stepping out of the lurker shadows...
>..and starting one entertaining thread!
I'm surprised it got as many responses as it did (although Zoogz
is probably mostly responsible for the volume of posts in this
thread). Anyway, I'm glad that most folks liked my comments.
Thanks for the interesting music folks, both "real" bands and
those who bear the burden of midi.
-- Bob "Bice" Eichler
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/18/01 11:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <samandor-EB33F9...@enews.newsguy.com>
What it "seems" to you like I'm saying, is not what I'm actually saying. It
doesn't matter to me when the recordings were made. But many of the people who
sent in contributions ADMITTED that they sent in stuff they weren't
particularily proud of, just to be included on the cd's. THEN, after the cd's
came out, many of those same people came in here and BRAGGED and GLOATED and
PATTED EACH OTHER ON THE BACK for their allegedly fine work. THAT is the part
I find distasteful and dishonest.
>> "No masterpiece was ever created by a lazy artist." --Salvador Dali
>
>Who said anything about masterpieces? Should nothing less be heard (or
>said, or painted, or enjoyed)?
>
>(Side note, FWIW - wasn't Dali a Fascist supporter?)
>
You don't know much about Dali, do you, Mr. Breton...
><snippage>
>
>> I live in a world of
>> savages, hypocrites, liars, thieves, phoneys and retards--I know it's
>> hard to
>> understand SUCH AN ELITIST ATTITUDE, but I do resent these
>> characteristics, and
>> I refuse to quietly sit by LIKE MOST OF YOU COWARDS and watch it all
>> happen
>> WITHOUT COMMENT.
>
>I'm commenting right now, rather than sitting by, but suspect you may
>not like my commentary.
>
Earlier, you responded to what I "seemed" to be saying--not to what I actually
said. Now, you individually respond to a GENERAL accusation I made, and try to
artifically strengthen it by saying you "suspect" that I may not like what you
say. Sam, Sam, Sam...
>> I'm a composer and a writer--an observer--and I report
>> what I
>> see, satirize it, and constructively try to fix whatever needs fixing. I
>> try
>> using humor to do this--but I frequently feel like I'm talking to a bag
>> of
>> hair...
>
>Me too, in my own way.
Talk to yourself a lot, do you? ;)
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/19/01 8:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <zJAD6.13975$u7.50...@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com>
I don't give a flying fuck what you (or anybody else on the planet) likes or
dislikes (unless it directly affects me).
"...and Arista Ray..." (just for the record)
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/19/01 8:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9bn06...@drn.newsguy.com>
Like your buddy Sam, you're twisting and misinterpreting my words. Tedious.
VERY tedious.
It's one of the reasons I don't get into many "serious" discussions with many
of the people in this newsgroup--I speak the truth, and most of you know it,
but resent it.
So be it.
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/19/01 12:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3ade8fdc...@news.tue.nl>
lol
Sam Rouse
> Like your buddy Sam, you're twisting and misinterpreting my words.
> Tedious.
> VERY tedious.
Twisting and misinterpreting them how? And if it's a consistent
problem, did you ever think it might be because you aren't expressing
yourself well? Just a thought....
> It's one of the reasons I don't get into many "serious" discussions with
> many
> of the people in this newsgroup--I speak the truth, and most of you know
> it,
> but resent it.
Elitist! And for the record, I don't resent anything you say, I merely
feel free to argue. (Are you sure you don't resent being argued with?)
> So be it
Ahhhruhhr!
Sam Rouse
> What it "seems" to you like I'm saying, is not what I'm actually saying.
> It
> doesn't matter to me when the recordings were made. But many of the
> people who
> sent in contributions ADMITTED that they sent in stuff they weren't
> particularily proud of, just to be included on the cd's. THEN, after the
> cd's
> came out, many of those same people came in here and BRAGGED and GLOATED
> and
> PATTED EACH OTHER ON THE BACK for their allegedly fine work. THAT is the
> part
> I find distasteful and dishonest.
I think there are at least a couple of factors here:
First, Patrick did a fine job of mastering these discs. I know my track
sounds better on the CD than it did on the source tape I sent him (I
suppose it could be that my tape deck doesn't sound as good on playback
as my CD player, but seem to recall that he did a bit of sonic cleanup
during mastering).
Second, hearing one's track in the context of all the other songs adds
something - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Partly this
may be "good" tracks psychologically uplifting the "bad" tracks (however
you divvy 'em up), but I happen to think it's more of a synergy kinda
thing.
Finally, maybe the folks who indicated they weren't "proud" of their
tracks were just being unobjective. Esp. if you have limited recording
experience, it's hard to be objective about your own stuff - for one
thing, in the process of making it you've heard it so goddamned many
times that it's hard not to get sick of it. For another, you probably
haven't played it for many folks, and those are all friends who will
usually tell you it's great even if it sucks. Then, there's modesty
(something with which you seem unfamiliar, other than probably resenting
it in others as a form of dishonesty ;).
> >(Side note, FWIW - wasn't Dali a Fascist supporter?)
>
> You don't know much about Dali, do you, Mr. Breton...
Nope, that's why I phrased it as a question. It's just something I
vaguely recall reading somewhere.
> Talk to yourself a lot, do you? ;)
All the time. Don't you?
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
d.j.ve...@removethistoreply.tue.nl (Dennis Versteeg) wrote:
>I'm not asking for everyone to be happy and dancing around
I dunno, that sounds like a good idea to me. Okay, everybody...on three,
get happy and dance around. Okay? One, two, three!
Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
http://www.mp3.com/michaelpdawson
http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html
"The government has fallen into the hands of the potatoes."
--Erik Satie, 1918
overcooked
Liquid Moamo) wrote:
>>From: eic...@epix.net (Bice)
>>Date: 4/18/01 2:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <3ade087d.3555030@localhost>
>>
>>
>>Stepping out of the lurker shadows...
>>
[...]
>>the newsgroup. Anyone out there who's been thinking of getting them
>>and hasn't gotten around to it yet, get off your butt (or rather sit
>>down on your butt, pull the keyboard towards you) and order it.
>>
>>-- Bob "Bice" Eichler, who has a lot of nerve sending a 300 line post
>>
>
>
>
>You're a fucking idiot. There are about six good pieces in this entire 2-cd
>set (and yes, one of them is mine)--the rest of it is pure PHONEY garbage.
>
>The reason why there are no BAND recordings (as opposed to MIDI) that sound
>anything like Frank is because nobody here has the balls, discipline or talent
>it takes to accomplish that. MIDI is the easiest way in the world to
>bluff--But composing, arranging and rehearsing a real, full band, is a whole
>other ballgame. Most of the chickenshit, limped dick people in this newsgroup
>wouldn't know REAL music if it came up and bit them on the ass!
>
>Jeesh. Don't get me started.
>
>Crawl back in your lurker hole, Sally Struthers.
Ouch! That is my problem, I keep getting bitten by REAL music and it
sure does hurt. I think I need a tetanus shot now or maybe a rabies
shot.
What? Ever?
graham connah
(jazz) in restaurants and nightclubs, with a few weddings, etc, thrown
in. i wouldn't call it "making" a living, more like "scrounging".
there is a "first" album not on the list below......
"Snaps Erupt At Pure Spans" on sour note records.
and, something new impending.
Charles Ulrich wrote:
> In article <3ade2487.10733757@localhost>, eic...@epix.net wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:49:34 -0700, Charles Ulrich <ulr...@sfu.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article <3ade087d.3555030@localhost>, eic...@epix.net wrote:
> > >
> > >> Other than Zoogz,
> > >> no one on these discs is attempting to make a living off their
> > >> music...are they?).
> > >
> > >Graham Connah.
> >
>
>
> He has three CDs out:
>
> Graham Connah's Sour Note Six: My God Has Fleas (Rastascan Records)
> Graham Connah's Sour Note Seven: Gurney To The Lincoln Center Of Your
> Mind (Rastascan Records)
> Jettison Slinky: Dank Side Of The Morn (Evander Music)
>
> --Charles
graham connah
Dennis Versteeg wrote:
>
>
> Most people on this newsgroup actually have a life and don't have the
> time to rehearse a full band, etc..
careful what you are implying here.....i mean, i make time to rehearse a band, and
i think i have a life (well, i have one that like. that makes me lucky i guess).
>
>
> Most people on this newsgroup realize that this is an amateur project
> and can appreciate for what it is.
perhaps this does beg the question, why try to sell them to others?
GC
David Wilcher
"Biffy the Elephant Shrew" <biffy...@aol.commie.rats> wrote in message
news:20010419231225...@nso-cs.aol.com...
> In article <3ade8fdc...@news.tue.nl>,
> d.j.ve...@removethistoreply.tue.nl (Dennis Versteeg) wrote:
>
> >I'm not asking for everyone to be happy and dancing around
>
> I dunno, that sounds like a good idea to me. Okay, everybody...on three,
> get happy and dance around. Okay? One, two, three!
Oooh! I'm dancing!
dave (Ain't this what living is really all about?)
Michael Gula
> But many of the people
> who
> sent in contributions ADMITTED that they sent in stuff they weren't
> particularily proud of, just to be included on the cd's. THEN, after the
> cd's
> came out, many of those same people came in here and BRAGGED and GLOATED
> and
> PATTED EACH OTHER ON THE BACK for their allegedly fine work. THAT is the
> part
> I find distasteful and dishonest.
This is not the first time you've made this accusation. Now, as
then, you don't mention any names.
Who are these back-patting, bragging gloaters you refer to?
Don't be afraid to hurt anyone's feelings.
Stu Mark
PM:
>> I'm not asking for everyone to be happy and dancing around
>
> I dunno, that sounds like a good idea to me. Okay, everybody...on three,
> get happy and dance around. Okay? One, two, three!
"Alright, now... this is the really exciting part of the show... this is the
part I always like the best, because this is where I get to find out what
you guys are made off, and you girls too... This is the part where we
have... we are purported to have, audience participation... Now I know it's
a matinee, 'n you know, you're probably in a hurry to go get something to
EAT, but I figure that this little audience participation that we're gonna
do right now is SO TOTALLY STUPID that it's... well, just think of it as an
aperitivo, you know what I mean? So, okay, everybody stand up, stand up now!
Awright, that's very good... Okay, a lot of you people are still sitting
down... no, don't walk forward, just stand up, stand where you are... Okay,
it's everybody standing up? Well, most of you are standing up, okay, the
ones who aren't standing up, hey, eat chain... Enforced recreation, live on
stage in London. Now, we're gonna do away with the fur trapper now, the
guy's been hitting my baby seal quite a bit, baby seal doesn't look too
good, bleeding from the mouth and rectum and looks terminal... So what we're
gonna do is we're all together gonna jump up and down this son-of-a-bitch,
now watch me, I'll do the stupid thing first, and then you shy people
follow, ready? Here we go..."
Stu
(who misses Uncle Frank)
NP: I Can't Go For That by Hall & Oates
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/19/01 8:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3ADFACFE...@earthlink.net>
Simple, Graham--THEY'RE ALL FULL OF SHIT, THAT'S why!
Jealous of talent and discipline they don't, nor will ever have. Retards using
MIDI technology to make phoney-balone CRAP, then they all come in here and brag
about how great they all are.
I'm fucking disgusted--I honestly am fucking disgusted and disappointed with
these untalented, FRAUDULENT assholes. And I resent having my words twisted.
You clowns can't argue the real points I address, so you rewrite what I
actually said to fit your own agenda of deceit.
Have ANY of these people in question ever actually LIVED? I'm disabled now,
and limited in my abilities--but at least I can say I'VE BEEN THERE--will these
meatballs ever make a REAL MARK that they've rightfully earned the right to
brag about?
Yes--anybody can bluff on ANY instrument--but it just so happened that most of
the affz contributors chose to use MIDI to cheat, probably because it's the
most convenient, expedient and convincing way for them to "express" themselves.
Am I grouchy about all this? DAMN FUCKING STRAIGHT, I AM!
This group operates on MOB MENTALITY--each of you needing the approval of the
others to justify your frauds and cheats. NO FUCKING BALLS.
NONE.
It's no wonder why some guys come in here and laughingly TORMENT THE HELL OUT
OF YOU. Alt.fan.Frank-Zapp--HA! If the early Zappa (not the later,
ass-kissing one you all drool over) ever saw a group like this one, it'd
probably kill him!
At least Graham brings up some VERY valid points here.
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/19/01 6:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <samandor-F50175...@enews.newsguy.com>
If I did, I wouldn't keep responding to the objections, right?
I just resent dishonesty, and I see it everywhere in this newsgroup ALL THE
TIME, on a daily basis.
And like I said, it's all very tedious. I'm about to close-out of this
particular discussion. I won't be nice to people who are fucking up the world
I have to live in.
Yeah, I know--ELITIST... :P
Sam Rouse
> In article <3ade8fdc...@news.tue.nl>,
> d.j.ve...@removethistoreply.tue.nl (Dennis Versteeg) wrote:
>
> >I'm not asking for everyone to be happy and dancing around
>
> I dunno, that sounds like a good idea to me. Okay, everybody...on three,
> get happy and dance around. Okay? One, two, three!
Twirlee, twirlee, twirlee, twirlee!
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/19/01 6:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <samandor-4132F9...@enews.newsguy.com>
When you've spent the last 30 years working at music as hard as I have, day
after day, week after week, month after month, year after year--actively as a
composer, musician, bandleader, record producer, etc.--YES, it's a little
difficult to be "modest"--I've built Zoogz Rift into a legend, and I do feel I
have a right to show that off from time to time. When I meet others who have
either matched me or OUTDONE me, I've bowed to their greatness. I LOVE those
people--they are MY heroes--and should be heroes to every sane person living on
the planet. As much of a JERK I think Frank Zappa was, his accomplishments
were nothing short of EXTRAORDINARY, and I've never pretended they were
anything but.
And I can't make that last statement without acknowledging Don Van Vliet, who I
blatantly stole from and used as a launching board for my own style and
compositional trends. If I won the lottery, I'd offer to split it all with
Don--HE felt I owed it to him--and so do I. Thank you Don, I hope you're doing
okay. You deserve NOT to be suffering.
>> >(Side note, FWIW - wasn't Dali a Fascist supporter?)
>>
>> You don't know much about Dali, do you, Mr. Breton...
>
>Nope, that's why I phrased it as a question. It's just something I
>vaguely recall reading somewhere.
>
Dali was expelled from the ELITIST "surrealist group" led by a total moron
named Andre Breton, when Dali showed (true to his "worked" character and
artistic nature as being somewhat of a "put-on artist") sympathetic support of
Franco, dictator of Spain at the time. Dali probably did it on purpose, just
to shake up Breton's little "sewing circle." Dali did have obsessions about
Kings and Monarchs--however--he was Capitalist in his thinking and actions, all
the way. Can someone be a supporter of Franco and the USA at the same time?
Maybe yes, maybe no--you decide.
>> Talk to yourself a lot, do you? ;)
>
>All the time. Don't you?
>
Yeah--*I* don't agree with myself most of the time, either...
...except on this point, of course...
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/19/01 8:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3ADFB06...@erols.com>
I refuse to seriously attack anyone DIRECTLY on the internet--I consider it to
be in extremely poor taste. The only times I attack any specific person is
when I don't really mean what I'm saying, and it's there for recreational
purposes. In those cases, I expect them to respond with a "Fuck you Zoogz"
sentiment--it makes for entertaining and provocative reading.
Which is why most of us are here in the first place.
Let's just say the guilty parties know who they are, now hiding behind silence
and smokescreens. I've seen it a zillion times.
Geir Corneliussen
>
> In article <3ade8fdc...@news.tue.nl>,
> d.j.ve...@removethistoreply.tue.nl (Dennis Versteeg) wrote:
>
> >I'm not asking for everyone to be happy and dancing around
>
> I dunno, that sounds like a good idea to me. Okay, everybody...on three,
> get happy and dance around. Okay? One, two, three!
Yawn. I just woke up and then I read about a dance contest...
What am I doing here?
--
Geir
Friendly Little Finger FZ Links
http://home.online.no/~corneliu/zappa.html
300 handy Zappa Links sorted into groups
Geir Corneliussen
> Dali was expelled from the ELITIST "surrealist group" led by a total moron
> named Andre Breton, when Dali showed (true to his "worked" character and
> artistic nature as being somewhat of a "put-on artist") sympathetic support of
> Franco, dictator of Spain at the time. Dali probably did it on purpose, just
> to shake up Breton's little "sewing circle." Dali did have obsessions about
> Kings and Monarchs--however--he was Capitalist in his thinking and actions, all
> the way. Can someone be a supporter of Franco and the USA at the same time?
> Maybe yes, maybe no--you decide.
Dali WAS surrealism. The more absurd it were, the better. It was just an
artistic joke dragged into the extreme. He had fun with steering things
up just for the hell of it. Rational thoughts were no fun.
And Zoogz surely must think the same.
The moron is not the artist, but the dumbass listening.
Sam Rouse
Interesting; I didn't know any of that. It seems to add weight to this
little ditty I mostly pulled out of my ass some time ago; whaddya think?
Surrealists
Once there was a group of surrealists that met every Wednesday in a
conference room at a public building. On this particular Wednesday, one
of the surrealists entered a motion to create a Manifesto for the group.
This was seconded, and further motions passed to form a committee, elect
a chairman for the committee, establish a charter for the committee, and
many other things that were thought to lead to the expedient development
of the Manifesto. This was completed in a surprisingly short period of
time, and few bangings of the gavel by the chairman.
It was then moved and seconded that the meeting be adjourned. After
informal farewells, the surrealists arranged the chairs tidily around
the table and quietly left the room.
Then the dog woke up, snorted once, and rolled over on his back. The
cat rubbed the dog's tummy and said, "What's for breakfast?"
Sam Rouse
> >From: Sam Rouse sama...@newsguy.com
> >
> >Elitist! And for the record, I don't resent anything you say, I merely
> >feel free to argue. (Are you sure you don't resent being argued with?)
>
> If I did, I wouldn't keep responding to the objections, right?
I suppose, but I still don't understand why you seem so resentful of the
aff-z CDs and/or the fact that some folks seem to like them, warts and
all.
> I just resent dishonesty, and I see it everywhere in this newsgroup ALL
> THE
> TIME, on a daily basis.
Like what? I don't think you've ever given a good explanation of this
(and I still don't understand your position in this thread). Folks
state their (mostly) honest (I think) opinions, and if you disagree,
they're being dishonest?
> And like I said, it's all very tedious.
Scientology can help you with that. You probably encountered a
Misunderstood Word (MU) and need to look it up in the dictionary, then
look up all the words in the definition, and repeat until you stop
yawning.
> I'm about to close-out of this
> particular discussion. I won't be nice to people who are fucking up the
> world
> I have to live in.
I get the impression that's most of the world's population. (I can
relate to that, but whaddya do?) If not (or even if), how exactly are
the denizens of aff-z fucking up the world you have to live in?
> Yeah, I know--ELITIST... :P
I think "elitist" is being polite ;).
A.Adriaanse
> Dennis Versteeg wrote:
>
> > Most people on this newsgroup actually have a life and don't have the
> > time to rehearse a full band, etc..
>
> careful what you are implying here.....i mean, i make time to
> rehearse a band, and i think i have a life (well, i have one that like.
> that makes me lucky i guess).
I think what Dennis meant to say was that most of the people here have a
professional life away from music, and can't/don't want to/don't spend
enough time making music to get beyond the amateur level. Exploring their
talent or the existence thereof becomes a problem when you put such
limitations on time and means.
> > Most people on this newsgroup realize that this is an amateur project
> > and can appreciate for what it is.
>
> perhaps this does beg the question, why try to sell them to others?
No, it doesn't. The main goal of the affz-cds (as I remember it) was to
bring together a collection of musical pieces by affz-contributors. A lot of
people showed interest in the project, and we wanted it to be available on
cd. That's all. And we all have egos, right Zoogz?
AA
Dennis Versteeg
Liquid Moamo) brought the following to our attention:
>lol
thanks for your interesting reply.
I thought you wanted intelligent discussions, but if this is the limit
of your intelligence you are even a more pitiful person than I already
thought.
It seems the level of your thinking is 'I'm right and I'm a genius and
everyone else is wrong' Well, you're not right, you're definatley no
genius and I've seen most of the replies others gave to your messages
and they came across more convincing than yours.
dennis
(awaiting a ROFLMAO reply or something else of this level)
Darkhop Sr.
>
> d.j.ve...@removethistoreply.tue.nl (Dennis Versteeg) wrote:
>
> >I'm not asking for everyone to be happy and dancing around
>
> I dunno, that sounds like a good idea to me. Okay, everybody...on three,
> get happy and dance around. Okay? One, two, three!
Everybody twist!
/JSH
darkhop at home dot com, OK?
"It's a sin to believe evil of others,
but it is seldom a mistake." --Mencken
Darkhop Sr.
[--]
Same as last time, and just as pointless.
Michael Gula
Like Girl Scout cookies -- to raise money for a worthy cause . .
.
. . . AFFZ CD #2.
Rudi Chiarito
> > Hey, now there's an idea. If only Mike and Sam would kiss and make up.
> We're buddies.
Happy together?
(Has anybody seen the movie with the same name by Wong Kar-Wai? The
soundtrack features "Chunga's revenge" and "I have been in you")
--
"We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers" (F Zappa)
Rudi Chiarito SGML/XML, user interface, i18n Amiga Inc.
ru...@amiga.com http://amiga.com/
Steve Cobham
<corn...@online.no> wrote:
>Biffy the Elephant Shrew wrote:
>>
>> In article <3ade8fdc...@news.tue.nl>,
>> d.j.ve...@removethistoreply.tue.nl (Dennis Versteeg) wrote:
>>
>> >I'm not asking for everyone to be happy and dancing around
>>
>> I dunno, that sounds like a good idea to me. Okay, everybody...on three,
>> get happy and dance around. Okay? One, two, three!
>
>Yawn. I just woke up and then I read about a dance contest...
>What am I doing here?
Taking your clothes off with the rest of us?
Steve.
================================================
Guitar and bass tuition - all styles and levels.
http://users.powernet.co.uk/guitars/tuition.htm
E-mail: st...@XSPAMXguitarsXMAPSX.powernet.co.uk
(Please remove obvious spam deterrent)
Interested in Zappa? Guitar? Beer?
Save money by setting up your own guitar!
How about trading Zappa and Danny Gatton tapes?
http://users.powernet.co.uk/guitars/
Heb de Latz und schpill dini Gitare.
================================================
Geir Corneliussen
>
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:09:18 +0200, Geir Corneliussen
> <corn...@online.no> wrote:
>
> >Biffy the Elephant Shrew wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <3ade8fdc...@news.tue.nl>,
> >> d.j.ve...@removethistoreply.tue.nl (Dennis Versteeg) wrote:
> >>
> >> >I'm not asking for everyone to be happy and dancing around
> >>
> >> I dunno, that sounds like a good idea to me. Okay, everybody...on three,
> >> get happy and dance around. Okay? One, two, three!
> >
> >Yawn. I just woke up and then I read about a dance contest...
> >What am I doing here?
>
> Taking your clothes off with the rest of us?
Actually, I was taking my clothes ON when I posted that...
How disgusting it will look out here when everyone get webcams and such.
Just think what a guy like Zoogz would try to do in front of it...
Patrick Neve
your words. (ahem). I got BALLS TO SPARE, motherfucker! I got no
problem with calling a spade a spade.. but what is a spade? To me,
cheating is getting on stage for a supposedly live show and having a midi
track run behind you. All those britney spears and big pop concerts are
a cheat. I was a stagehand at a U2 concert and during the sound check it
was obvious that 2/3's of the music was sequenced. That's an outright lie.
In this case noone is fooling anyone else.. studio inventions using all
the devious little tools science has made available are perfectly fair
since noone is trying to convince you or anyone that it's anything other
than what it is, midi or otherwise. Nobody here is trying to fool you
into thinking a sequenced track is actually 128 musicians all playing
their little parts.. why not listen to the composition rather than berade
the sound quality of the instruments? I say it again, keyboards are not
inherently evil.. I'm in three other bands right now, all of them with
real drums and everything, and I chose to include a track I made myself
instead. Well, i don't have a drum set in my house, do you? I'm proud of
my track was able to whip it up in my bedroom with what I had lying
around, and I'd like to hear a band even try and play it! I didn't even
try and make it sound like a live band, that wasn't the point. It's not a
replacement for a live band, it's a whole nuther animal that has its
place alongside bands. It's just an instrument like any other, why don't
pick a better instrument to pick on, like the oboe? FUCK OBOES AND ALL
WHO PLAY THEM. IF THERE IS A HELL BELOW, IT'S FIRES WAIT FOR OBOE
PLAYERS, NOT MIDI USERS!
*************************************************
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Patrick Neve
though.. wrestling managers aren't typically known for their modesty, Sam!
On 20 Apr 2001, Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo wrote:
Patrick Neve
..maybe you mean #3?
*************************************************
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Geir Corneliussen
>
> On 20 Apr 2001 00:45:51 GMT, liqui...@aol.com (Zoogz Rift - The
> Liquid Moamo) brought the following to our attention:
>
> >lol
>
> thanks for your interesting reply.
I am very happy about those CD's.
I can honestly say it was worth the money and work we put into it. Zoogz
just dumped an old song from an old album in there. He did not rehearse
a band for this project, he didn't paid much, he didn't do any any
artwork for free, he didn't mixed it or spendt time on the production.
I put $1100 into this project to be sure it was realized. I made an
original tune just for this project. My band rehearsed for ten minutes
to play the heavy-chords in the intro. The instrumental stuff is a
result of me reading the usermanual for my Korg synth for weeks, more
time than I actually played on it. I spendt a whole weekend with gluing
this together, excited about this project. Who can't feel great about
beeing a part of such a rare production, with Calvin's original artwork
on?
Zoogz is irrational as always and not to be taken serious.
Bossk (R)
> Bossk (R) - Conditioner (Skiffle Version): Both
> the track and the artist have parenthetical
> clauses. This one reminded me of the one Ween
> album I've heard, _Pure Guava_,
Stuff up the cracks, turn on the gas, I'm gonna take my life ... ;)
> Amazingly catchy. According to the liner notes,
> this is the only song Bossk ever wrote. Unbelievable -
> does that mean you're not a musician, or just that
> you've never written anything?
I am a musician who improvises daily on an f-hole slim-neck acoustic guitar
with steel strings all tuned to the same note, but in four different
octaves. But this is the only music I've ever written.
> If the former, then who played that cool bass line?
> If the latter, you should definitely write more.
Thank you very much for your kind words. It was me playing the bass line.
There are no edits in it and it took me all afternoon to nail it.
> Clever, funny and catchy, but the "statutory rape"
> implication that the song's narrator has sex with a
> Pygmy as a substitute for having sex with children
> is a little disturbing.
I agree with this but I've never dared to bring it up. It feels as if the
narrator would like to have sex with children, and goes for short women
because with them he can fantasise about it.
--- Bossk (R) <wik...@mbox301.swipnet.se>
Bossk (R)
> I thought you wanted intelligent discussions,
> but if this is the limit of your intelligence you
> are even a more pitiful person than I already
> thought.
>
> It seems the level of your thinking is 'I'm right
> and I'm a genius and everyone else is wrong'
> Well, you're not right, you're definatley no
> genius and I've seen most of the replies others
> gave to your messages and they came across
> more convincing than yours.
>
> dennis
> (awaiting a ROFLMAO reply or something else of this level)
ROMF
I'm with Zoogz, this is incredible :)
--- Bossk (R) <wik...@mbox301.swipnet.se>
Bossk (R)
> Sam Rouse <sama...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
> > <liqui...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > There are about six good pieces in this entire
> > > 2-CD set (and yes, one of them is mine) - the
> > > rest of it is pure PHONEY garbage.
> >
> > What are the other five?
>
>
> I don't remember, since I almost never listen to it
> anymore. Biffy's was one of them, Lewis Saul (I think),
So you DO like the MIDI pieces best!
What do you think about my track? That's my own favourite :)
--- Bossk (R) <wik...@mbox301.swipnet.se>
Charles Ulrich
<Pine.GSO.3.96.101042...@darkwing.uoregon.edu>,
Patrick Neve <sp...@darkwing.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> It's just an instrument like any other, why don't
> pick a better instrument to pick on, like the oboe? FUCK OBOES AND ALL
> WHO PLAY THEM. IF THERE IS A HELL BELOW, IT'S FIRES WAIT FOR OBOE
> PLAYERS, NOT MIDI USERS!
You have blasphemed against the Grand Wazoo, the Petit Wazoo, the Duke
of Prunes, and Darth Oboe.
May your little doggie dealie be hollow!
--Charles
Antal Adriaanse
> Antal Adriaanse - In Isolation/Getrommell: This one's a little more
> hard-rockish than I usually go for, and I've gotta admit that it
> didn't really grab me at first. The weird bits during the last
> minute and a half were the first part that I liked - between 3:15
> and 3:40 or so, it sounds something FZ would have used to segue
> between tracks. The rest of the song has grown on me too with
> repeated listens.
Thanks. Today I would have only submitted a song, and very likely not this
one, but a track from our album Ogen Vol Vuur [which is in the shops in
Holland right now, go out and buy it, we need money to feed the roadies.
Ogen Vol Vuur by In 't Wild, on Munich Records]. It's funny you liked part
2 more than part 1, especially with Lewis' comments on the track in mind. By
the way, Lewis, if you're reading this, "Mazen" (the Dutch version) is part
of our liveshow, and people like it very much so it'll probably appear on
the next album.
Anyway, Bob, I like the review, it's good reading along with the tracks, and
most of it makes sense too.
AA
Robert Burz
Sam Rouse wrote:
>
> I think "elitist" is being polite ;).
Huh? I think being called an "elitist" is rather weak. Now, when you
get called an "elitist pig", you can be sure you've done something
right.
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/20/01 1:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9bot2l$5dadf$1...@reader02.wxs.nl>
I have no problem with any of this.
But, if I recall correctly, how about the participants who started repeatedly
asking questions like, "Can we get these into the stores?" and "When will we
start earning ROYALTIES" That kind of stuff...
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/20/01 1:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3adff4df...@news.tue.nl>
"Don't worry--you'll grow up someday." --Frank Zappa to some audience member,
The Alan Burke Show, 1967
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/20/01 9:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3AE067...@online.no>
>
>Dennis Versteeg wrote:
>>
>> On 20 Apr 2001 00:45:51 GMT, liqui...@aol.com (Zoogz Rift - The
>> Liquid Moamo) brought the following to our attention:
>>
>> >lol
>>
>> thanks for your interesting reply.
>
>I am very happy about those CD's.
>
>I can honestly say it was worth the money and work we put into it. Zoogz
>just dumped an old song from an old album in there. He did not rehearse
>a band for this project, he didn't paid much, he didn't do any any
>artwork for free, he didn't mixed it or spendt time on the production.
>
>I put $1100 into this project to be sure it was realized. I made an
>original tune just for this project. My band rehearsed for ten minutes
>to play the heavy-chords in the intro. The instrumental stuff is a
>result of me reading the usermanual for my Korg synth for weeks, more
>time than I actually played on it. I spendt a whole weekend with gluing
>this together, excited about this project. Who can't feel great about
>beeing a part of such a rare production, with Calvin's original artwork
>on?
>
>Zoogz is irrational as always and not to be taken serious.
Uh, that's SERIOUSLY. Zoogz is irrational as always and not to be taken
seriousLY.
Just trying to help. :)
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/20/01 4:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3AE0176C...@home.com>
>
>Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo wrote:
>
>[--]
>
>Same as last time, and just as pointless.
Mine--or yours?
Michael Gula
>
> In article
> <Pine.GSO.3.96.101042...@darkwing.uoregon.edu>,
> Patrick Neve <sp...@darkwing.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>
> > It's just an instrument like any other, why don't
> > pick a better instrument to pick on, like the oboe? FUCK OBOES AND ALL
> > WHO PLAY THEM. IF THERE IS A HELL BELOW, IT'S FIRES WAIT FOR OBOE
> > PLAYERS, NOT MIDI USERS!
>
> You have blasphemed against the Grand Wazoo, the Petit Wazoo, the Duke
> of Prunes, and Darth Oboe.
Not to mention Mitch Miller!
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/20/01 11:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <PA%D6.199$vR1...@nntpserver.swip.net>
Some of the MIDI things were cool. MOST OF THEM WERE NOT, however. If it was
ALL guitar music, and I detected a bunch of phoney-baloney crap, I'd be just as
quick to criticize what they were doing with the use of the guitar.
I am not necessarly ANTI-MIDI. I'm anti-bullshit.
Michael Gula
>
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Michael Gula wrote:
>
> > graham connah wrote:
> > >
> > > Dennis Versteeg wrote:
> >
> > > > Most people on this newsgroup realize that this is an amateur project
> > > > and can appreciate for what it is.
> > >
> > > perhaps this does beg the question, why try to sell them to others?
> >
> > Like Girl Scout cookies -- to raise money for a worthy cause . .
> > .
> >
> > . . . AFFZ CD #2.
>
> ..maybe you mean #3?
When did #2 come out? And no one told me? Bastards!!
Zoogz Rift - The Liquid Moamo
>Date: 4/20/01 2:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <og2E6.12579$Ce4.1...@news1.rdc1.ct.home.com>
I'm that too.
Lewis R. Saul
> And I can't make that last statement without acknowledging Don Van Vliet,
who I
> blatantly stole from and used as a launching board for my own style and
> compositional trends. If I won the lottery, I'd offer to split it all
with
> Don--HE felt I owed it to him--and so do I. Thank you Don, I hope you're
doing
> okay. You deserve NOT to be suffering.
This is the most beautiful thing you've ever written, Z-man...
When I first heard your music [after buying about 10 of your LPs for 99
cents each, sheesh...] -- I honestly felt you were a Beefheart rip-off...
You know -- if it sounds like a Beefheart, if it looks like a Beefheart, if
it acts like a Beefheart...
It takes some serious time spent with your mania to really see that DVV was,
in fact, a "launching board" for your own thing, your own "trends."
"Asphyxiated" would be right at home on "Lick My Decals" --
-- except not really...
It bugged me that you "sounded like Don" for some time -- until I managed to
locate that weak spot on a soon-to-burst aorta that makes your stuff
unique...
That said, it is truly beautiful to see you acknowledge that influence for
what it is...
**
As for your comments on the affz project:
Can't we agree that this was a vanity project [sure, selling a few units
wouldn't be that painful...] -- put together for the unambiguous purpose of
showcasing the composing and performing talents of the affz denizens?
I think it's a great honor that we had TWO professionals contribute --
but -- c'mon man!!! -- the rest of us do NOT make our living with music
[though god knows i've tried and am still trying...] -- and so there you
have it!
I would kill to have a real band, but prison bunks wouldn't do my back any
good, either....
MIDI is a tool. Hopefully, one can burn one's ears beyond the pinched-nasal
txyywofzxghhh of MIDI sound to recognize the underlying compositional
thought processes...
In my case, PPATC was realized with General MIDI, before I had learned how
to use more sophisticated MIDI sounds -- I tried hard to put some REAL into
that mix...but you can only do so much with General MIDI...
Take Michael Gula's piece -- the MIDI couldn't possibly sound more crappy
than that! But if you make an effort to listen to the composition
underneath, I think there are great rewards there.
Same with Geir's piece and many others.
You and Graham are professional musicians and have paid massive dues. We all
know that. Why do you have to chew on everyone else's ass so hard?
There's only three things that actually bother me about these discs:
1) Chris Roe -- Trio Improv
2) Jeff Pollack -- Wild About You [sorry, Jeff -- I just can't listen to it
anymore!]
3) the length of Pierry's contribution...[which I think could have been
absolutely brilliant with some seroius editing...]
Everything else continues to charm me.
Including your inspired attitude.
Lew Saul
Michael Ventura-not the L.A. writer
>Not to mention Mitch Miller!
>
>
Senator Gore: "You have probably never heard of the Mothers of
Invention."
Senator Exon: "I have heard of Glenn Miller and Mitch Miller. Did you
ever perform with them?"
Mr. Zappa: "As a matter of fact, I took music lessons in grade school
from Mitch Miller's brother."
Senator Exon: "That is the first sign of hope we have had in this
hearing."
From Frank Zappa's testimony to Congress, 19 September, 1985.
mike v
*****************************************
"...the guitar can be the single most blasphemous device on the face of the
earth. That's why I like it...the disgusting stink of a too-loud electric
guitar: now that's my idea of a good time"-FZ
Patrick Neve
Sorry, that was only to used as an example to make a point with Mr. Rift.
I have nothing against oboe players specifically. I did not mean to pick
on that one group of people. Rather, curses and pox upon double reed
players of ALL varieties.
*************************************************
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Patrick Neve
> But, if I recall correctly, how about the participants who started repeatedly
> asking questions like, "Can we get these into the stores?" and "When will we
> start earning ROYALTIES" That kind of stuff...
Sorry Zoogz, everone signed a waiver (didn't you?) which allowed limited
use of their track, royalty free. It was part of the stipulation from the
beginning, part of the very idea of the compilation, that noone make a
profit on this, and why should we.. most of us aren't even real musicians,
worthy only of the humdrum job in the fourth row of a symphonic double
reed section.
*************************************************
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Patrick Neve
(snipped)
Geir.. regardless of the supposed quality of the music, not enough thanks
can be given to your or the other unnamed investors who made this
project such a hotly debated reality. Thank you, gentlemen.
*************************************************
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Patrick Neve
.. and you're even on it.
*************************************************
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~splat/zappapage.html
Stu Mark
PM:
> Dali was expelled from the ELITIST "surrealist group" led by a total moron
> named Andre Breton
Well, I wouldn't call Breton a *total* moron, as he contributed necessary
leadership and direction to a very important group of artists (folks like
Yves Tanguy, Man Ray, Magritte, etc)... While his stewardship of this
"Elitist" group might have been over the top, as the group itself was, he
was a very bright man.
In fact, this leads me to another point, which is about Zoogz. For those who
might feel wounded by Mr. Rift and his words, I would offer the following
quote, by Mr. Breton: "The confidences of madmen: I would spend my life in
provoking them. They are people of a scrupulous honesty, and whose innocence
is equalled only by mine. Columbus had to sail with madmen to discover
America. And see how that folly has taken form and endured."
I am not, at this writing, prepared to compare Zoogz Rift to Dali or
Magritte or Man Ray, or even Yves Tanguy, but I will suggest to the other
art students in the group to study Zoogz in a larger, far more global
perspective. I am certain that history will be far kinder to him then he is
to us. And that is part and parcel of the art that exists in life, in man,
in nature. While we do not welcome lightning when it strikes, we do not
resent it's existence, as it thrills us in an unparalleled way.
Stu
(who is a cup is half-full kind of guy)
NP: Pretty by The Cranberries
Charles Ulrich
<Pine.GSO.3.96.101042...@darkwing.uoregon.edu>,
Patrick Neve <sp...@darkwing.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Charles Ulrich wrote:
> > In article
> > <Pine.GSO.3.96.101042...@darkwing.uoregon.edu>,
> > Patrick Neve <sp...@darkwing.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > It's just an instrument like any other, why don't
> > > pick a better instrument to pick on, like the oboe? FUCK OBOES AND
> > > ALL
> > > WHO PLAY THEM. IF THERE IS A HELL BELOW, IT'S FIRES WAIT FOR OBOE
> > > PLAYERS, NOT MIDI USERS!
> >
> > You have blasphemed against the Grand Wazoo, the Petit Wazoo, the Duke
> > of Prunes, and Darth Oboe.
> >
> > May your little doggie dealie be hollow!
>
> Sorry, that was only to used as an example to make a point with Mr. Rift.
> I have nothing against oboe players specifically. I did not mean to pick
> on that one group of people. Rather, curses and pox upon double reed
> players of ALL varieties.
So now you're insulting sarrusophone players too? Man, you're really
pushing it.
--Charles