older, somewhat off topic; A rock music first?
marc rosen
before it, but was there a 3 sided rock album? Two disks, but the
second disk pressed on one side only? I think I recall either Edgar
Winter, Johnny Winter, or Donna Summer put it out. (Just kidding
about the last one.)
Marc
b
marc rosen ha escrito:
dunno about 3 sided - I have never seen one in 20 years of trawling
round used record shops. On a similar note, were Emerson Lake and
Palmer the first to do a triple gatefold LP (that live one from about
1974-75)?
-B.
Chris West
<reveren...@yahoo.com> writes
Yessongs was a triple released in 1973.
--
Chris West
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> Okay, so Freak out was the first double rock album after the one
> before it, but was there a 3 sided rock album? Two disks, but the
> second disk pressed on one side only? I think I recall either Edgar
> Winter, Johnny Winter, or Donna Summer put it out.
Second Winter by Johnny Winter, released in 1969.
The other three-sided records that come to mind are by jazz artists:
The Case Of The Three-Sided Dream In Audio Color by Rahsaan Roland
Kirk and Eyes Of The Heart by Keith Jarrett.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Mike Espinoza
You joke about Donna Summer, but she's on what may be the only five-
sided album in history. I seem to remember my aunt having the
soundtrack to "Thank God It's Friday", which, if I remember correctly,
had two full-length discs and a third with a disco mix of Donna
Summer's "Je T'Aime (Moi Non Plus)" on the first side and nothing on
the flip. I remember thinking how weird it looked (even for a disco
album).
I think Johnny Winter's Second Winter is considered the first three-
sided rock album.
The only other one that I ever saw was Jimi Hendrix's Radio One, which
was released in 1988 by....wait for it...RYKODISC! Most people
bought the CD, though.
--
Mike E.
Knut Skogstad
>
> You joke about Donna Summer, but she's on what may be the only five-
> sided album in history. I seem to remember my aunt having the
> soundtrack to "Thank God It's Friday", which, if I remember correctly,
> had two full-length discs and a third with a disco mix of Donna
> Summer's "Je T'Aime (Moi Non Plus)" on the first side and nothing on
> the flip. I remember thinking how weird it looked (even for a disco
> album).
>
Motorpsycho's "Timothy's Monster" has 5 sides of music, and an etching on
side 6. Joe Jackson's "Big World" is another 3-sided.
Ryko's vinyl-version of Läther is 9-sided......
K
--
"There is no Hell, there is only France"
Frank Zappa
Strictly Commercial
Mike Espinoza wrote:
> The only other one that I ever saw was Jimi Hendrix's Radio One, which
> was released in 1988 by....wait for it...RYKODISC! Most people
> bought the CD, though.
I thought Rykodisc's schtick was --- no vinyl. Are there really extant
Rykodisc vinyl releases out there?
Odd that nobody's mentioned Monty Python's Matching Tie and Handkerchief
in this thread.
Rolf
Mike Espinoza
I've got WOIIFTM on Ryko vinyl and I'm not the only one.
--
Mike E.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
> I thought Rykodisc's schtick was --- no vinyl. Are there really extant
> Rykodisc vinyl releases out there?
They had a line of limited edition audiophile vinyl items for a while,
pressed on clear vinyl. When they owned the Bowie catalog, they put
out all those releases as 3-sided LPs (I've got the _Space Oddity_
one) with the original LP on the first disc, and the CD bonus tracks
on the one-sided disc.
Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
Piper
> the CD bonus tracks
> on the one-sided disc.
Everything has two sides.
Milhouse G
I have that and "Strictly Commercial". I used to own a copy of Sugar's
"File Under:Easy Listening" on wax, and I've actually seen one copy of
their old Mission of Burma release on vinyl (the CD was known at the
time of it's release and initial availability for being either the first
80 minute CD, or one of very few that were around back then. It's since
been supplanted by the individual MoB Ryko reissues).
--
Milhouse Guidry of the mWo
Empty barrels make the most noise.
mWo. It's not just the coolest, it's fa lyfe, so survey says
whether you like it or don't like it, never E-e-e-ver tell
me he did *not* just SMELL what mWo 3:16 reeks of.
Dave Wilcher
Or more.
dave
--
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read.
-Mark Twain
Les Cargill
Mike Espinoza
<milhouse_...@derekmarvelli.org> wrote:
>Mike Espinoza wrote:
>> On Mar 14, 5:53 pm, Strictly Commercial <maurerr...@telus.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Mike Espinoza wrote:
>>>
>>>>The only other one that I ever saw was Jimi Hendrix's Radio One, which
>>>>was released in 1988 by....wait for it...RYKODISC! Most people
>>>>bought the CD, though.
>>>
>>>I thought Rykodisc's schtick was --- no vinyl. Are there really extant
>>>Rykodisc vinyl releases out there?
>>>
>>>Odd that nobody's mentioned Monty Python's Matching Tie and Handkerchief
>>>in this thread.
>>
>>
>> I've got WOIIFTM on Ryko vinyl and I'm not the only one.
>
>I have that and "Strictly Commercial". I used to own a copy of Sugar's
>"File Under:Easy Listening" on wax, and I've actually seen one copy of
>their old Mission of Burma release on vinyl (the CD was known at the
>time of it's release and initial availability for being either the first
>80 minute CD, or one of very few that were around back then. It's since
>been supplanted by the individual MoB Ryko reissues).
Oh, yeah, I forgot. I have Strictly Commercial, too. Those are
individually numbered. Mine is No. 13008.
--
Mike E.
Piper
> Piper wrote:
>
>>Biffy the Elephant Shrew wrote:
>>
>>
>>>the CD bonus tracks
>>>on the one-sided disc.
>>
>>Everything has two sides.
>
>
> Or more.
>
Your side, my side, and THE TRUTH.
Bill
Román García
> On Mar 14, 7:55 am, "marc rosen" <duckb...@qis.net> wrote:
>
> > Okay, so Freak out was the first double rock album after the one
> > before it, but was there a 3 sided rock album? Two disks, but the
> > second disk pressed on one side only?
>
> was released in 1988 by....wait for it...RYKODISC! Most people
> bought the CD, though.
My version of Jimi Hendrix Experience's _Radio One_ (Castle
Communications, UK, 1989) has the usual four sides in it.
On the other side (pun not intended), I have a De La Soul maxi-single
with three sides on it, but on only one piece of vinyl. I mean, if you
put the needle on side two, you can either hear side two or side
three, depending on which one of the two parallel grooves on the side
the needle falls on.
Hoodini
> On the other side (pun not intended), I have a De La Soul maxi-single
> with three sides on it, but on only one piece of vinyl. I mean, if you
> put the needle on side two, you can either hear side two or side
> three, depending on which one of the two parallel grooves on the side
> the needle falls on.
I believe that is the first I've heard of a vinyl record having more
than one groove per side.
I recall reading years ago of at least one record which was played
from the spindle to the outer edge rather than the vastly more popular
outer edge to the spindle.
Are there any other uncommon vinyl record playback orientations?
--
Gotta Find My Roogalator
Chris West
writes
>Román García said the following On 3/15/2007 3:53 AM:
>
>> On the other side (pun not intended), I have a De La Soul maxi-single
>> with three sides on it, but on only one piece of vinyl. I mean, if you
>> put the needle on side two, you can either hear side two or side
>> three, depending on which one of the two parallel grooves on the side
>> the needle falls on.
>
>I believe that is the first I've heard of a vinyl record having more
>than one groove per side.
That's what happens with the Monty Python record someone referred to
earlier. Another of the Python discs is endless as it finishes with a
loop of someone saying 'Sorry, squire, I've scratched the record' over
and over again.
--
Chris West
Hoodini
A quick search turned up the following related information. Navigate
to the webpage to learn about additional trivial data regarding vinyl
recordings and utilize the various weblinks within the text below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unusual_types_of_gramophone_records
Unusual grooving
Locked grooves — Nearly all records have a lock-groove: it is the
silent loop at the end of the record that keeps the needle and tonearm
from drifting into the label area. However, it is possible to record
sound in this groove. A notable example of this was an LP by The Who
with an infinite-loop squeaky-wheel sound recorded in the end-groove;
another was the UK release of the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts
Club Band, and side 'b', disc 2 of Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music.
This concept has been extended to the production of records consisting
entirely of circular "locked grooves" to provide collections of
infinite loop sound samples of duration limited to one revolution of
the disc. Notable examples of this are the releases from RRRecords of
the 7" RRR-100 (with 100 locked grooves) and the 12" RRR-500 (with 500
locked grooves). Canada's Legion Of Green Men took the art further
creating several records and remixes containing what they called
Eternal Opuscules rhythmic tunes & songs which would play seamlessly
to a locked groove at the end of a side. With their Incarnate' remix
of Malka Spigel's I Just Want they even succeeded to do this with an
unusual time signature. There are also many techno records featuring
loops as locked grooves, which, when recorded at 133.3 bpm and are
replayed at 33 1/2 rpm will continuously repeat the beats and musical
phrases, which can then be utilised creatively by a DJ. Notable techno
records featuring locked grooves include Jeff Mills' X-102 " Discovers
the Rings of Saturn" LP, Seretonin records' "Loops" series, and Ben
Long's "Ergonomix" series of 12"s which consist purely of lockgrooves.
Parallel grooves — It is possible to master recordings with two or
more separate, interlaced spiral grooves on a side. Such records have
occasionally been made as novelties. Depending on where the needle is
dropped in the lead-in area, it will catch more or less randomly in
one of the grooves. Each groove can contain a different recording, so
that you have a record which "magically" plays one of several
different recordings. An example is Monty Python's Matching Tie and
Handkerchief. Also Tool's release, Opiate featured on the second side
a double groove that would either play the first track of side two or
the hidden song that was found at thee end of the CD version. The
Summer 1980 issue of Mad Magazine Super Special included a one-sided
sound sheet (see "flexidisc" above), playable on a standard turntable.
It had eight interlaced grooves, each track having the same
introduction song but a different ending.
Inside-to-outside recording — also known as "centre start" or "inside
start"Almost all analog disc recordings were recorded at constant
angular speed, resulting in a decreasing linear speed. The result was
increased "end-groove distortion" toward the center of the disc,
particularly on loud passages. Since classical music tends to start
quietly and mount to a loud climax, it was frequently suggested that
it would be better if recordings were made to play from the center of
the disk outward. A very few such recordings were made. However, the
domination of record changers, and the fact that symphony movements
are not uniformly twenty minutes long, made these recordings no more
than curiosities. In the late 1920's and early 1930's some movie
studios experimented with records as an alternative method for
recording film sound. Most of these records "played from the inside
out" as this supposedly made it easier to synchronise the sound on the
record with the pictures on the film. Nevertheless synchronisation
difficulties meant that "sound on film" techniques (using optical or
magnetic soundtracks) were more commercially successful despite
inferior sound quality.
Until the 1920s, French Pathé Records used inside start and other
commercially distinctive grooving. At that time they cut all discs
laterally, meaning the vibrations in the grooves were "hill and dale",
as their wax cylinders had always been. Thomas Edison, the inventor,
who always favoured the cylinder for all its advantages, also cut his
discs with lateral grooves before the 1920s. He also pioneered fine
groove discs that played for up to five minutes per side, but they had
to be made very thick to remain perfectly flat. (Of course they needed
to be played with a special Pathé or Edison "Diamond" soundbox. In
order to play these lateral cut recordings on modern equipment, all
that is needed is to reconnect a stereo pick-up cartridge so that it
picks up a "cross-phased" signal, and switch the sound output to mono.)
An early binaural format — Before the development of the single-groove
stereo system circa 1957, at least one company, Cook Laboratories,
released a number of "binaural" recordings. Each side of one of these
recordings consisted of two long, continuous tracks — one containing
the left-ear signal, one containing the right-ear signal. It was
intended that the buyer purchase an adapter from Cook Laboratories
that allowed two cartridges to be mounted together, with the proper
spacing, on a single tone arm. Only a very small number of recordings
were ever released in this format. It is not known how many purchasers
went to the effort and expense needed to play them binaurally.
Binaural recordings resurfaced in the late 1970's, Pink Floyd used
several binaural sound effects on The Final Cut, and the German group
Can released several LPs recorded using the technique. However, these
simply used the standard stereo system to encode the sound.
Vibration-resistant discs — See Highway Hi-Fi.
John Scialli
>The only 3 sided LP I can think of right now is by Monty Python.
Virtually 3-sided.
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> A notable example of this was an LP by The Who
> with an infinite-loop squeaky-wheel sound recorded in the end-groove;
My vinyl copy of The Who Sell Out had something in the end-groove of
side B. (This was the twofer pairing that album with Happy Jack, in
the cheapo 80's single-sleeve pressing, so I'm impressed that they
bothered to include it.)
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
marc rosen
Strategy had the crickets pressed into the locked groove and this
would not eject on an automatic turntable. You'd get endless
crickets, and it made it easy to take longer breaks when I did some
college radio shows. The USA pressing was not like this.
Marc
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> Are there any other uncommon vinyl record playback orientations?
A year or two ago I bought Wow by Moby Grape. Does anyone have a
record player that runs at both 33 and 78 RPM?
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Charles Ulrich
pbuzb...@yahoo.com wrote:
In the 1960s, they were ubiquitous. I even remember a four-speed record
player (16/33/45/78), though I never saw a 16 RPM record.
--Charles
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> In the 1960s, they were ubiquitous. I even remember a four-speed record
> player (16/33/45/78), though I never saw a 16 RPM record.
Interesting. For now, I can verify that a cut pressed at 78 RPM
sounds very strange played at 33 RPM.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
b
Charles Ulrich ha escrito:
An aunt of mine spent some time in Australia and south africa in the
70s.
Visiting her in the early 80s, I remember seeing and playing a 16rpm
disc. It was a complilation she had bought in one of the
aforementioend countries. can't recall much about it apart from the
first track was a taste of honey by Herb Alpert. That was the only
time i ever saw one.
-B.
Mike Espinoza
>The Summer 1980 issue of Mad Magazine
> Super Special included a one-sided
> sound sheet (see "flexidisc" above), playable on a standard turntable.
> It had eight interlaced grooves, each track having the same
> introduction song but a different ending.
I used to have this one myself. The song was called something like
"Super Spectacular Day". The first part of the song was the same
upbeat, "life is so great"-type song, then, after the word "until", it
would play one of the eight, malady-ridden endings. I wish I knew
what happened to it.
--
Mike E.
b
pbuzb...@yahoo.com ha escrito:
I heard about that album with one track at 78. any good?
As for turntables, I have a newer model of this 4 speed deck I picked
up for pence!
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_page.php?pic_id=3300
Gary
skip in his copy of "Live at Leeds", which after about 20 minutes
prompted me to say "that guitar solo is pretty boring" before we found
out what was actually going on.
We were, of course, completely sober at the time.
Of course.
Mike Espinoza
> Locked grooves - Nearly all records have a lock-groove: it is the
> silent loop at the end of the record that keeps the needle and tonearm
> from drifting into the label area. However, it is possible to record
> sound in this groove....
Eagles Live has crowd noise on the inner groove on side 4.
The Lords Of The New Church's debut has a drone at the end of side 1
("Portabello") that continues into the inner groove.
--
Mike E.
Mike Espinoza
> Parallel grooves - It is possible to master recordings with two or
> more separate, interlaced spiral grooves on a side. Such records have
> occasionally been made as novelties. Depending on where the needle is
> dropped in the lead-in area, it will catch more or less randomly in
> one of the grooves. Each groove can contain a different recording, so
> that you have a record which "magically" plays one of several
> different recordings.
Did You're The Guy I Want To Share My Money With by Laurie Anderson,
William S. Burroughs, and John Giorno have a side with parallel
grooves?
--
Mike E.
Yesterdays Wafflez
the audio sound of a needle lifting off the record? Or was it Fripp's
'Exposure', or Peter Gabriel or Daryl Hall or.....
Y.W.
Yesterdays Wafflez
'groove/actual play time'?
Y.W.
Dave Wilcher
And didn't Mr. Bungle's _Disco Volante_ have the secret song in a seperate
groove? (I never had the vinyl, think I remember reading that..)
Mike Espinoza
wrote:
> Is it David Bowie's 'Scary Monsters' that at the end of the record has
> the audio sound of a needle lifting off the record? Or was it Fripp's
> 'Exposure', or Peter Gabriel or Daryl Hall or.....
Daryl Hall's Sacred Songs. It's on the CD, too.
Charles Ulrich
"Gary" <midic...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've no doubt mentioned this before, but my college roommate had a
> skip in his copy of "Live at Leeds", which after about 20 minutes
> prompted me to say "that guitar solo is pretty boring" before we found
> out what was actually going on.
Sounds like my copy of Two Sides Of The Moon, with a perfectly-timed
skip in the drum solo.
> We were, of course, completely sober at the time.
Likewise.
--Charles
Hasi
>The only 3 sided LP I can think of right now is by Monty Python.
>
>
Bonnie "Prince" Billy's Greatest Palace Music is also 3 sided, side 4
has an etching.
Milhouse G
> In article <1173973894....@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
> "Gary" <midic...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I've no doubt mentioned this before, but my college roommate had a
>>skip in his copy of "Live at Leeds", which after about 20 minutes
>>prompted me to say "that guitar solo is pretty boring" before we found
>>out what was actually going on.
>
>
> Sounds like my copy of Two Sides Of The Moon, with a perfectly-timed
> skip in the drum solo.
My father's copy of "Fillmore East, June 1971" had a couple of nasty
skips in "Do You Like My New Car?", the most memorable of which produced
and an endlessly repeatable series of "The bullet? The bullet! The
bullet? The bullet! The bullet? The bullet!"
I never got to hear the whole track skip-free until I purchased the CD
around 1993.
--
Milhouse Guidry of the mWo
Empty barrels make the most noise.
mWo. It's not just the coolest, it's fa lyfe, so survey says
whether you like it or don't like it, never E-e-e-ver tell
me he did *not* just SMELL what mWo 3:16 reeks of.
Milhouse G
> Isn't Todd Rundgren's 'Initiation' the longest lp in history as far as
> 'groove/actual play time'?
I don't own that record, but I know the "Todd Rundgren's Utopia" lp is
pretty fucking long.
Side one - 28:33
Side two - 30:22
Another really long one I own is Richard Pryor's 1982 "Live on the
Sunset Strip" album
Side one - 28:14
Side two - 32:03
Of course, the latter being a spoken word / comedy album, it's
understandable that it could be cut a bit quieter with less compromise
in sound quality, etc.
Milhouse G
Ditto Devo's "Now it Can Be Told" live album.
As for 7" records, I have a one-sided Bad Religion "Atomic Gargen"
single with an etching on the B-side, and the Jawbox / Jawbreaker split
7" was a double with one song and one piece of artwork per record.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
> I recall reading years ago of at least one record which was played
> from the spindle to the outer edge rather than the vastly more popular
> outer edge to the spindle.
Would that be the album that Flo & Eddie recorded under the name
Checkpoint Charlie?
Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
> Isn't Todd Rundgren's 'Initiation' the longest lp in history as far as
> 'groove/actual play time'?
I have at least a couple of classical LPs that are longer...one is
Mahler's 5th Symphony on Everest, which runs 42:35 on one side. I've
heard of (but not heard or seen) an LP called "Osmose" by Kalma &
Tinti that has over an hour of music on a side.
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> Yesterdays Wafflez wrote:
> > Isn't Todd Rundgren's 'Initiation' the longest lp in history as far as
> > 'groove/actual play time'?
>
> I don't own that record, but I know the "Todd Rundgren's Utopia" lp is
> pretty fucking long.
> Side one - 28:33
> Side two - 30:22
Initiation is even longer. The second side is 36 minutes, and the
first side is ~ 30 minutes.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> pbuzby2...@yahoo.com ha escrito:
>
> > On Mar 15, 4:53 am, Hoodini <calt...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > > Are there any other uncommon vinyl record playback orientations?
>
> > A year or two ago I bought Wow by Moby Grape. Does anyone have a
> > record player that runs at both 33 and 78 RPM?
>
> I heard about that album with one track at 78. any good?
Good record. The 78 cut is forgettable, though. (A local library has
a CD copy where I heard it at proper speed.)
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Yesterdays Wafflez
up to A&M Records and watched the whole pressing/cutting process there.
They were mastering UB40 I believe and actually had a sound room with 4
guys listening and approving the EQs. It was fascinating...and smelled
wonderful too!
Y.W.
John Henley
Biffy the Elephant Shrew <biffy...@aol.com> wrote:
> I have at least a couple of classical LPs that are longer...one is
> Mahler's 5th Symphony on Everest, which runs 42:35 on one side. I've
> heard of (but not heard or seen) an LP called "Osmose" by Kalma &
> Tinti that has over an hour of music on a side.
At that length they'd work best with a brand-new stylus, but the
wear factor would still be very high.
John H.
John Henley
<ulr...@sfu.ca> wrote:
You guys are either making me feel very old,
or making yourself look (to me) exceedingly young.
Does anybody remember "Environments Disc 1" on Atlantic
Records, that was made to be played at any one of those
four speeds?
John H.
Milhouse G
> Charles Ulrich wrote:
>
>> In article <1173973894....@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
>> "Gary" <midic...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I've no doubt mentioned this before, but my college roommate had a
>>> skip in his copy of "Live at Leeds", which after about 20 minutes
>>> prompted me to say "that guitar solo is pretty boring" before we found
>>> out what was actually going on.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like my copy of Two Sides Of The Moon, with a perfectly-timed
>> skip in the drum solo.
>
>
> My father's copy of "Fillmore East, June 1971" had a couple of nasty
> skips in "Do You Like My New Car?", the most memorable of which produced
> and an endlessly repeatable series of "The bullet? The bullet! The
> bullet? The bullet! The bullet? The bullet!"
>
> I never got to hear the whole track skip-free until I purchased the CD
> around 1993.
I guess I could add that I never heard the line "That's the part that
gets me the hottest!" until then, either, nor was I ever prior aware
that it was even on the record.
Yesterdays Wafflez
jhe...@mail.utexas.edu (John Henley) Wrote:
Does anybody remember "Environments Disc 1" on Atlantic Records, that
was made to be played at any one of those four speeds?
OMG..I still have the 'Ocean' and 'Birds' disc.
Since this cool thread I dug out & am playing my 'Percussion in Hi-Fi'
(awesome separation) disc and 'Demonstrations in Hi-Fi' with great audio
for its day.
Q: Does anyone still have their first/early turntables?
My Pioneer PL12 is in the closet but works (needs new belt). My
Fingurhut Concertmate works great!
Y.W.
Knut Skogstad
>
> Does anybody remember "Environments Disc 1" on Atlantic
> Records, that was made to be played at any one of those
> four speeds?
>
> John H.
Also Boyd Rice/Frank Tovey's "Easy Listening For The Hard Of Hearing" is
"playable at any speed".
K
Mike Espinoza
<milhouse_...@derekmarvelli.org> wrote:
>Yesterdays Wafflez wrote:
>> Isn't Todd Rundgren's 'Initiation' the longest lp in history as far as
>> 'groove/actual play time'?
>
>I don't own that record, but I know the "Todd Rundgren's Utopia" lp is
>pretty fucking long.
>Side one - 28:33
>Side two - 30:22
>
>Another really long one I own is Richard Pryor's 1982 "Live on the
>Sunset Strip" album
>Side one - 28:14
>Side two - 32:03
>
>Of course, the latter being a spoken word / comedy album, it's
>understandable that it could be cut a bit quieter with less compromise
>in sound quality, etc.
Def Leppard-Hysteria
Side one - 32:02
Side two - 30:32
Rundgren's Initiation is still longer, though.
--
Mike E.
Strictly Commercial
Milhouse G wrote:
> Of course, the latter being a spoken word / comedy album, it's
> understandable that it could be cut a bit quieter with less compromise
> in sound quality, etc.
Firesign Theatre, How Can You Be In Two Places At Once When You're Not
Anywhere At All:
Side A: 28:27
Side B: 28:02
But most of their LP-era stuff is in the 18-22 minutes per side range.
Still the best bit of timing information is on I Think We're All Bozos
on This Bus:
This album will take exactly 38:49 out of your future.
Rollo
Mike Espinoza
<maure...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>Milhouse G wrote:
>> Of course, the latter being a spoken word / comedy album, it's
>> understandable that it could be cut a bit quieter with less compromise
>> in sound quality, etc.
>
>Firesign Theatre, How Can You Be In Two Places At Once When You're Not
>Anywhere At All:
>
>Side A: 28:27
>Side B: 28:02
"No Anchovies? You've got the wrong man. I spell my name 'Danger'."
>But most of their LP-era stuff is in the 18-22 minutes per side range.
>Still the best bit of timing information is on I Think We're All Bozos
>on This Bus:
>
>This album will take exactly 38:49 out of your future.
SYSTAT UPTIME
--
Mike E.
Hoodini
> Hoodini wrote:
>> I recall reading years ago of at least one record which was played
>> from the spindle to the outer edge rather than the vastly more popular
>> outer edge to the spindle.
> Would that be the album that Flo & Eddie recorded under the name
> Checkpoint Charlie?
I am not familiar with that title. I have such a vague recollection of
a record that played from the inside out that I don't remember whether
I actually heard and saw the record being played or, merely read about
such a record(s).
--
Gotta Find My Roogalator
computeruser
"Strictly Commercial" <maure...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Y1%Jh.42124$lY6.20472@edtnps90...
>
> Mike Espinoza wrote:
>> The only other one that I ever saw was Jimi Hendrix's Radio One, which
>> was released in 1988 by....wait for it...RYKODISC! Most people
>> bought the CD, though.
>
> I thought Rykodisc's schtick was --- no vinyl. Are there really extant
> Rykodisc vinyl releases out there?
>
> Odd that nobody's mentioned Monty Python's Matching Tie and Handkerchief
> in this thread.
>
> Rolf
Was it three or four sides, on two-sides? I can't remember.
Thanks for bringing this up Rolf. Matching Tie and Handkerchief had double
grooves and depending where the needle landed you could hear one of two
sides on the same side. If your auto-return arm was loose it could play both
of these parallel tracks back to back.
This was the only one I ever heard using this technique.
computeruser
Charles Ulrich
Strictly Commercial <maure...@telus.net> wrote:
Can you state that as a question?
--Charles
Martin Gregorie
> Q: Does anyone still have their first/early turntables?
>
> My Pioneer PL12 is in the closet but works (needs new belt). My
> Fingurhut Concertmate works great!
>
track of when I moved the the UK.
Currently I have a Garrard 301 with SME Mk 2 arm and Shure V15
cartridge. I've had this rig since the late 70s.
The amp and speakers are the same age (Quad FM3/33/303 and Celestion
Ditton 44s) and are currently relaying BBC Radio 4.
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
Martin Gregorie
> Román García said the following On 3/15/2007 3:53 AM:
>
>> On the other side (pun not intended), I have a De La Soul maxi-single
>> with three sides on it, but on only one piece of vinyl. I mean, if you
>> put the needle on side two, you can either hear side two or side
>> three, depending on which one of the two parallel grooves on the side
>> the needle falls on.
>
> I believe that is the first I've heard of a vinyl record having more
> than one groove per side.
>
> I recall reading years ago of at least one record which was played from
> the spindle to the outer edge rather than the vastly more popular outer
> edge to the spindle.
>
>
common. The disk had a thin black plastic coating over an aluminium
core. It was double sided, but played from the inside out and ran at
80.5 rpm instead of 78. I think these were used to distribute BBC
programs to other overseas broadcasters - I saw it in NZ.
Father Haskell
> Okay, so Freak out was the first double rock album after the one
> before it, but was there a 3 sided rock album? Two disks, but the
> second disk pressed on one side only? I think I recall either Edgar
> Winter, Johnny Winter, or Donna Summer put it out. (Just kidding
> about the last one.)
> Marc
Devo did a 3-sided double vinyl album, side 4 being cut not with
an audio track but a smile-frown face logo. Can't remember the
name, but a stunning piece of promotional work nonetheless.
Father Haskell
> marc rosen ha escrito:
>
> > Okay, so Freak out was the first double rock album after the one
> > before it, but was there a 3 sided rock album? Two disks, but the
> > second disk pressed on one side only? I think I recall either Edgar
> > Winter, Johnny Winter, or Donna Summer put it out. (Just kidding
> > about the last one.)
> > Marc
>
> round used record shops. On a similar note, were Emerson Lake and
> Palmer the first to do a triple gatefold LP (that live one from about
> 1974-75)?
Grateful Dead / Europe '72 was a triple gatefold LP.
Father Haskell
Has anyone beaten the Residents' 40 tracks per LP on the
Commercial Album?
Father Haskell
> On Mar 15, 8:47 am, Charles Ulrich <ulr...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > In the 1960s, they were ubiquitous. I even remember a four-speed record
> > player (16/33/45/78), though I never saw a 16 RPM record.
>
> sounds very strange played at 33 RPM.
>
> Pat Buzby
> Chicago, IL
Cheech and Chong's "Let's Make a Dope Deal" (Big Bambu) makes
reference to a contestant "playing Black Sabbath at 78 speed and
seeing god."
Charles Ulrich
"Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I believe Morgan Fisher's Miniatures LP had 51 tracks by 51 different
artists.
And just wait for Patrick Neve's Sloppy Seconds CD.
Actually, don't wait. Contribute. See
<http://www.obscurica.com/sloppy_seconds.html>.
--Charles
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
> > dunno about 3 sided - I have never seen one in 20 years of trawling
> > round used record shops. On a similar note, were Emerson Lake and
> > Palmer the first to do a triple gatefold LP (that live one from about
> > 1974-75)?
>
> Grateful Dead / Europe '72 was a triple gatefold LP.
There was the Woodstock soundtrack, too, and several others.
Oddly enough, an album I just dug out of my collection recently was
Blood, Sweat & Tears 4 (better than I expected), which may have been
the first triple gatefold cover for a single album.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Father Haskell
> In article <1173965423.142124.69...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > record player that runs at both 33 and 78 RPM?
>
> player (16/33/45/78), though I never saw a 16 RPM record.
16 RPM was spoken word format for transcribing radio shows where
duration
was more important than high end frequency. 16 RPM discs were
oversized,
around 16" diameter from the rare few I've seen. Close groove spacing
would
have given them 90 minutes per side.
Hoodini
>>> In the 1960s, they were ubiquitous. I even remember a four-speed record
>>> player (16/33/45/78), though I never saw a 16 RPM record.
>> Interesting. For now, I can verify that a cut pressed at 78 RPM
>> sounds very strange played at 33 RPM.
> Cheech and Chong's "Let's Make a Dope Deal" (Big Bambu) makes
> reference to a contestant "playing Black Sabbath at 78 speed and
> seeing god."
One day while listening to records at a friend's house, he switched
the speed down on Louis Armstrong's song 'Wonderful World' to 16rpm
from its proper 33-1/3rpm. What was heard from the speakers was a much
better 'sick rhinoceros' sound than is heard on 'Inna-Gadda-Da-Vida'
played at its proper speed.
Father Haskell
Incidentally, that's a well-known technique for figuring out a lead by
ear.
Cutting the speed in half drops the pitch 1 octave, effectively
slowing the
riff without changing the key. Those 16 RPM players came in mighty
handy if you were a musician.
Hasi
John Henley
<mar...@no.known.address> wrote:
> Hoodini wrote:
> >
> > I recall reading years ago of at least one record which was played from
> > the spindle to the outer edge rather than the vastly more popular outer
> > edge to the spindle.
> >
> I remember seeing a BBC programme record from back when tape wasn't
> common. The disk had a thin black plastic coating over an aluminium
> core. It was double sided, but played from the inside out......
OK. When I was in kindergarten - long time ago, folks,
before the Beatles - a local 'recordist' was hired to come and
make 7-inch recordings of all of us giving little speeches, or
singing, or what have you.
I still have my record somewhere, and as I recall, the label
that this gent affixed to the disc had, along the rim, the
indications "33-1/3" and "78" - with boxes to be checked - and
likewise these two phrases, with boxes to be checked:
"Inside out" or "Outside in."
John Henley
b
wrote:
> Isn't Todd Rundgren's 'Initiation' the longest lp in history as far as
> 'groove/actual play time'?
>
what about 'a wizard -a true star'? i seem to recall that being at
least 30 mins per side. Lp came with instructions explaining this,
and how to set things up to get the most out of it.
longest SINGLE I own is robert fripp and the league of gentlemen's
'marriagemuzik': 11:45 on ONE SIDE of a 45 rpm 7" disc!! anything
beat that?
-b.
Milhouse G
> On 15 mar, 17:34, YesterdaysWaff...@webtv.net (Yesterdays Wafflez)
> wrote:
>
>>Isn't Todd Rundgren's 'Initiation' the longest lp in history as far as
>>'groove/actual play time'?
>>
>>Y.W.
>
>
> what about 'a wizard -a true star'? i seem to recall that being at
> least 30 mins per side. Lp came with instructions explaining this,
> and how to set things up to get the most out of it.
I'm not about to fetch the lp to add up all the times, but it is pretty
long on each side. Not sure if it actually hits 30 minutes or not.
Definitely not as long as "Initiation", given the times that someone
else provided in this thread.
> longest SINGLE I own is robert fripp and the league of gentlemen's
> 'marriagemuzik': 11:45 on ONE SIDE of a 45 rpm 7" disc!! anything
> beat that?
Wow. I've never seen a 7" side anywhere near that long. About the
longest one I've seen or have owned was a Stooges 7" on Bomp! Records
that was about 6 and a half minutes on one side, IIRC.
> -b.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
> longest SINGLE I own is robert fripp and the league of gentlemen's
> 'marriagemuzik': 11:45 on ONE SIDE of a 45 rpm 7" disc!! anything
> beat that?
It isn't a 45 though; it plays at 33--that's how they got it to run so
long.
Your pal,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
Strictly Commercial
> It isn't a 45 though; it plays at 33--that's how they got it to run so
> long.
I'm guessing that the 45 that came with the vinyl One Nation Under A
Groove was also 33rpm? (Don't have ready access to my old vinyl.) If the
recordings are the same ones on the CD, that one was 8:47 on one side,
8:36 on the other.
Fried ice cream is a reality!
Rollo
pbuzb...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> b wrote:
> > what about 'a wizard -a true star'? i seem to recall that being at
> > least 30 mins per side. Lp came with instructions explaining this,
> > and how to set things up to get the most out of it.
>
> I'm not about to fetch the lp to add up all the times, but it is pretty
> long on each side. Not sure if it actually hits 30 minutes or not.
> Definitely not as long as "Initiation", given the times that someone
> else provided in this thread.
Although long (~28 minutes/side), A Wizard is not as long as either
the first Utopia album or Initiation.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Yesterdays Wafflez
reveren...@yahoo.com (b)
Wrote:
..what about 'a wizard -a true star'? i seem to recall that being at
least 30 mins per side. Lp came with instructions explaining this, and
how to set things up to get the most out of it.
The 'Initiation' lp sleeve reads:
"Technical Note: Due to the amount of music on this disc (over one
hour), two points must be emphasized. Firstly, if your needle is worn
or damaged, it will ruin this disc immediatly. Secondly, if the sound
does not seem loud enough on your system, try re-recording the music
onto tape. By the way, thanks for buying the album."
I've always loved 'A Treatise On Cosmic Fire.'
KQRS radio in MN would play that side & always played 'Echidna's' side
off Roxy.
Y.W.
Yesterdays Wafflez
"Important Notice."
"I'm sure you've heard this before but due to the fact that you can only
put so much music on a piece of pastic before you start to loose some of
the sound, and due to the fact that I have exceeded what is the
potential norm by at least 6 or 7 minutes per side, you'll probably want
to crank up your Victrola as loud as it will go to get full enjoyment
contained on this here lp. Thnks."
Isn't it the inner tracks that get most distorted?
Thanks all for the great Z info!
Y.W.
John Henley
Wafflez <Yesterda...@webtv.net> wrote:
> Isn't it the inner tracks that get most distorted?
Yes. It's what was (is) called tracking error. It has to do with
a combination of compression of the grooves near the label
(less area to work with) and the inevitable changing angle
of the stylus as the tone arm pivots. Garrard, for a while,
marketed a turntable with a tonearm that didn't pivot but tracked
straight along a rod - theoretically eliminating tracking error,
though I don't know if it really did.
Better quality pivot-arm turntables have a compensating
control on them to set a countervailing tension, pushing
the tone arm back towards the outside, lessening the
distortion.
John Henley
Yesterdays Wafflez
jhe...@mail.utexas.edu (John Henley) Wrote:
..Better quality pivot-arm turntables have a compensating control on
them to set a countervailing tension, pushing the tone arm back towards
the outside, lessening the distortion...
Thanks!
I remember as a kid seeing our neighbors awesome Bang & Olufsen system
with the tracking tone arm.
Y.W.
Mike Espinoza
> In article <17184-46016DE6...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>, Yesterdays
>
> Wafflez <YesterdaysWaff...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > Isn't it the inner tracks that get most distorted?
>
> Yes. It's what was (is) called tracking error. It has to do with
> a combination of compression of the grooves near the label
> (less area to work with) and the inevitable changing angle
> of the stylus as the tone arm pivots. Garrard, for a while,
> marketed a turntable with a tonearm that didn't pivot but tracked
> straight along a rod - theoretically eliminating tracking error,
> though I don't know if it really did.
>
> Better quality pivot-arm turntables have a compensating
> control on them to set a countervailing tension, pushing
> the tone arm back towards the outside, lessening the
> distortion.
Is that what the anti-skate function does or is that something
different?
--
Mike E.
Biffy the Elephant Shrew
> Garrard, for a while,
> marketed a turntable with a tonearm that didn't pivot but tracked
> straight along a rod - theoretically eliminating tracking error,
> though I don't know if it really did.
I had the Garrard Zero-100, which had a pivoting cartridge connected
to a rod running parallel to the tonearm, which continuously adjusted
the angle of the cartridge as it approached the center of the record.
This meant that the whole tonearm assembly had a bunch of extra mass,
which made it lousy for tracking any record that wasn't perfectly
flat. When that sucker hit the top of a warp, it wanted to keep going
up into the air. And let me tell you, when Bongo Fury was released, I
swear that every copy shipped to San Diego was warped enough to make
my tonearm dance.
Father Haskell
> In article <17184-46016DE6...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>, Yesterdays
>
> > Isn't it the inner tracks that get most distorted?
>
> Yes. It's what was (is) called tracking error. It has to do with
> a combination of compression of the grooves near the label
> (less area to work with) and the inevitable changing angle
> of the stylus as the tone arm pivots. Garrard, for a while,
> marketed a turntable with a tonearm that didn't pivot but tracked
> straight along a rod - theoretically eliminating tracking error,
> though I don't know if it really did.
>
> Better quality pivot-arm turntables have a compensating
> control on them to set a countervailing tension, pushing
> the tone arm back towards the outside, lessening the
> distortion.
>
> John Henley
The error stemmed from the fact that the cutting stylus on the
lathe ran on a straight line from edge to center and did not vary
its tracking angle, whereas the pivoted tonearm kept changing
its tracking angle by virtue of geometry. The tracking arm
more accurately duplicated the trajectory of the lathe. Tom
Edison, salesman first, inventor second, played up the flat
disc's tracking error to push his "superior" cylinder phonograph.
John Henley
Biffy the Elephant Shrew <biffy...@aol.com> wrote:
> I had the Garrard Zero-100, which had a pivoting cartridge connected
> to a rod running parallel to the tonearm, which continuously adjusted
> the angle of the cartridge as it approached the center of the record.
And I was confusing it with the B&O. Thanks Biffy and
YW.
And also I guess Biff's explained why the Zero 100 went away.
JH
John Henley
Espinoza <espi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I believe so - it's part of the same dynamic - if you drop
a tonearm on a grooveless disc of vinyl - say, side four
of Second Winter - it'll skate straight towards the center.
Hey, y'all know what that phenom is called, doncha?
Students??
So the arm's tendency to press towards the inner
groove wall contributes to the distortion.
Anyway, I'm no physicist, and I'm recalling stuff I
read in Stereo Review more than 35 years ago, so
I'd better shut up.
JH
Father Haskell
> In article <1174514939.489224.315...@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Mike
>
> Espinoza <espin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Mar 21, 3:50 pm, John Henley <jhen...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
> > > Better quality pivot-arm turntables have a compensating
> > > control on them to set a countervailing tension, pushing
> > > the tone arm back towards the outside, lessening the
> > > distortion.
>
> > Is that what the anti-skate function does or is that something
> > different?
>
> I believe so - it's part of the same dynamic - if you drop
> a tonearm on a grooveless disc of vinyl - say, side four
> of Second Winter - it'll skate straight towards the center.
> Hey, y'all know what that phenom is called, doncha?
> Students??
Coriolis force.
John Henley
Father Haskell <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 22, 9:08 am, John Henley <jhen...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> >- if you drop
> > a tonearm on a grooveless disc of vinyl - say, side four
> > of Second Winter - it'll skate straight towards the center.
> > Hey, y'all know what that phenom is called, doncha?
> > Students??
>
> Coriolis force.
Um, not exactly what I was after.
JH
Charles Ulrich
"Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 22, 9:08 am, John Henley <jhen...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> > In article <1174514939.489224.315...@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Mike
> >
> > Espinoza <espin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On Mar 21, 3:50 pm, John Henley <jhen...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > > Better quality pivot-arm turntables have a compensating
> > > > control on them to set a countervailing tension, pushing
> > > > the tone arm back towards the outside, lessening the
> > > > distortion.
> >
> > > Is that what the anti-skate function does or is that something
> > > different?
> >
> > I believe so - it's part of the same dynamic - if you drop
> > a tonearm on a grooveless disc of vinyl - say, side four
> > of Second Winter - it'll skate straight towards the center.
> > Hey, y'all know what that phenom is called, doncha?
> > Students??
>
> Coriolis force.
Is it true that LPs play from the inside out in the southern hemisphere?
--Charles
Mike Espinoza
> In article <1174587415.351866.313...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Yes, but all of the lyrics become subliminal.
--
Mike E.
Yesterdays Wafflez
espi...@yahoo.com Wrote:
Is it true that LPs play from the inside out in the southern hemisphere?
>Yes, but all of the lyrics become subliminal.
And band would be,
NOITNEVNI FO SREHTOM EHT & APPAZ KNARF
Father Haskell
> In article <1174587415.351866.313...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Inside out and backwards.
Their CDs play from outside in.
Father Haskell
> In article <ulrich-3CA378.06465315032007@shawnews>, Charles Ulrich
>
> <ulr...@sfu.ca> wrote:
> > In article <1173965423.142124.69...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> > pbuzby2...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > A year or two ago I bought Wow by Moby Grape. Does anyone have a
> > > record player that runs at both 33 and 78 RPM?
>
> > player (16/33/45/78), though I never saw a 16 RPM record.
>
> or making yourself look (to me) exceedingly young.
>
> Does anybody remember "Environments Disc 1" on Atlantic
> Records, that was made to be played at any one of those
> four speeds?
>
> John H.
Cage's 4′33″ sounds exactly the same at all speeds. Genius.
Jan Tore Skråmestø
"Father Haskell" <father...@yahoo.com> skrev i melding
news:1174601058.2...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>Cage's 4'33? sounds exactly the same at all speeds. Genius.
Not really. While the performer produces no deliberately musical sound,
there will nonetheless be sounds in the concert hall. It is these sounds
that are to be regarded as constituting the music in this piece.
These sounds will sound different at different speeds.
Yesterdays Wafflez
YRUF OGNOB
SERULLA TOOZ
STAR TOH
NAT OIDUTS
Just use your 1x rwd to hear in forward.
y.w.
Milhouse G
> STAR TOH
Best Chinese buffet in town!
Father Haskell
<jtsjtsSPAMS...@ANTISPAMonline.no> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <fatherhask...@yahoo.com> skrev i meldingnews:1174601058.2...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >Cage's 4'33? sounds exactly the same at all speeds. Genius.
>
> Not really. While the performer produces no deliberately musical sound,
> there will nonetheless be sounds in the concert hall. It is these sounds
> that are to be regarded as constituting the music in this piece.
> These sounds will sound different at different speeds.
Well, sure. For the live version.
Martin Gregorie
don't think I've ever seen or heard of a commercial one that worked
well, but for a really tasty little sucker that you can make fairly
easily, check out this site:
http://www.transaxeguitars.com/nonguitar.htm
Its based on a linear air bearing with a knife-edge pivot for the arm's
vertical movement. The whole setup looks to be suitably low mass.
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
Yesterdays Wafflez
Yesterdays Wafflez wrote:
STAR TOH
milhouse_...@derekmarvelli.org (Milhouse G) Wrote:
Best Chinese buffet in town!
They have the best Crab Rangoontoonin Voon!
Y,W.
John Henley
Yesterdays Wafflez <Yesterda...@webtv.net> wrote:
And Dee!
JH
Les Cargill
> In article <1174514939.4...@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Mike
> Espinoza <espi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On Mar 21, 3:50 pm, John Henley <jhen...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>Better quality pivot-arm turntables have a compensating
>>>control on them to set a countervailing tension, pushing
>>>the tone arm back towards the outside, lessening the
>>>distortion.
>>
>>Is that what the anti-skate function does or is that something
>>different?
>
>
>
> I believe so - it's part of the same dynamic - if you drop
> a tonearm on a grooveless disc of vinyl - say, side four
> of Second Winter - it'll skate straight towards the center.
> Hey, y'all know what that phenom is called, doncha?
> Students??
>
Centripetal Force? Nah. Coriolis? Bernoulli? The outer
groove has a slightly higher "linear" velocity than
the inner by a factor of the ratio of the two radii. The
shear from the delta-V will be a force. I do forget
exactly which model that is, though.
Same deal as an airfoil - the air is "stretched" over
the longer (in cross section ) surface, creating
teh suck that keeps the plane aloft.
> So the arm's tendency to press towards the inner
> groove wall contributes to the distortion.
>
> Anyway, I'm no physicist, and I'm recalling stuff I
> read in Stereo Review more than 35 years ago, so
> I'd better shut up.
>
I think ya dun gud. I are no fizzycyst, neithur.
> JH
--
Les Cargill
Martin Gregorie
> Centripetal Force? Nah. Coriolis? Bernoulli? The outer
> groove has a slightly higher "linear" velocity than
> the inner by a factor of the ratio of the two radii. The
> shear from the delta-V will be a force. I do forget
> exactly which model that is, though.
>
> Same deal as an airfoil - the air is "stretched" over
> the longer (in cross section ) surface, creating
> teh suck that keeps the plane aloft.
>
the wing deflects air downward and the reaction to this is what holds
the plane up in the air.
The so-called Bernoulli explanation sucks big time. Apart from anything
else, it fails completely to explain how a plane can fly upside down
when the longer path is below the wing.
Besides, the Bernoulli effect describes fluid flow in a pipe and isn't
relevant to airflow over a surface. The "stiction" that keeps an airflow
attached to a surface is known as the Coanda effect.
Qualifications for the above critique: I've been a model plane designer
and builder for three decades and a sailplane pilot for five years.
>> So the arm's tendency to press towards the inner
>> groove wall contributes to the distortion.
>>
The geometry of all modern pickup arms causes the drag vector of the
needle in the groove to pass outside the arm's pivot point. This causes
the arm to try and swing inwards, hence the need for some form of
anti-skate device. The benefit of this shape is that the needle shaft
remains more or less tangent to the groove all across the playing
surface - something that a straight arm can't achieve.
Its possible to make a straight arm so the drag vector passes through
the pivot point and doesn't require any anti-skate correction, but
unless the arm is very long the shaft of the needle will not remain
tangential to the groove unless the arm is ridiculously long. Having
said that, I've seen such arms in broadcast studios. They are at least
50% longer than domestic arms and quite massive, so I doubt that they
would be any better than Biffy's Zero-100 at tracking a warped record.
They take up huge amounts of space too, because the arm has to be
mounted at a tangent to the middle of an LP's playing area.