>[repeated thread counter: #670,000]
> "Who owns a man? The one who rules him,
> or the one who pays him?" -Eriond
> Justin "Skale" Hall hal...@one.net
> http://w3.one.net/~halldp/index.htm
Justin, do you have all this in memory so you can just paste it in, or
what?? hehehe
Eric
>hal...@one.net (Justin Hall) wrote:
>>The bel/pol prefixes are added BY ALDUR, as a signification of his love to
>>those he gives them to. Beldaran's is out of love, not because she is a
>>disciple.
>>[repeated thread counter: #670,000]
>Justin ,
>Are we getting a little testy or what?
>It must be the holiday droops...
hehe..you have no idea... i'm just kinda frustrated over arguing over points
already proven. Who's doing that faq again..??:)
>hal...@one.net (Justin Hall) wrote:
>>In article <4c1nri$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> cbn...@aol.com (CBNagel) writes:
>>>From: cbn...@aol.com (CBNagel)
>>>Subject: Re: Is Garion a disciple ?
>>>Date: 29 Dec 1995 16:50:42 -0500
>>>Ok, yes, Garion is a disciple. BEL-Garion. The BEL- signifies
>>>discipleship to Aldur, as does the POL- for Polgara.
>>>(this is my boyfriend's theory, he seems to have discounted BEL-Daran, and
>>>POL-Edra.)
>>>Ok, he wasn't discounting. Poledra had a VERY special relationship with
>>>Aldur that we don't really understand even yet, so she's a special case.
>>>And the rules of prefixes don't apply to Beldaran because she wasn't a
>>>sorceress so the prefix was merely out of respect to her father or some
>>>such. Talk to Beldin. He seems to have named them.
>>The bel/pol prefixes are added BY ALDUR, as a signification of his love to
>>those he gives them to. Beldaran's is out of love, not because she is a
>>disciple.
>>[repeated thread counter: #670,000]
>> "Who owns a man? The one who rules him,
>> or the one who pays him?" -Eriond
>> Justin "Skale" Hall hal...@one.net
>> http://w3.one.net/~halldp/index.htm
>Justin ,
>Are we getting a little testy or what?
>It must be the holiday droops...
NO !!
Pol and Bel were references to Belgareths original tribe. Ill give you
the page and book if you really require it
Ian Watkinson
ia...@dial.pipex.com
Windows NT error 30147 Computer Hardware not present re-load
: ... This has always
: bothered me, his wife is only part dryad, and therefore will not be as
: long lived as a full dryad,
See Amy Pierce's posting.
: ..., and most of all he will be OVERLORD of the
: west FOREVER!!!
Would that be such a bad thing?
Diamond
But remember, Ce'Nedra's tree is in the Citedal's garden. Remember, they
planted it in winter so that she could be fertile...
-"Zakath"
Is it possible that Beldaran was born with that name? Did
Polgara formerly used to be known as Gara? I'm not sure about
this, so any input is desired. The BEL's on all the men seemed
to be 'tacked' on at some later point. Did Beldaran, Poledra,
and Polgara ever have previous names? I mean, is there really a
law that prevents the use of Bel-something on anyone but Aldur's
disciples?
--
SPARKY
"I don't want to hear from those who know,
They can buy my pants, put on my clothes..."
Corduroy
>Gmo...@nando.net (Gmoney) wrote:
>>hal...@one.net (Justin Hall) wrote:
>>>In article <4c1nri$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> cbn...@aol.com (CBNagel) writes:
>>>>From: cbn...@aol.com (CBNagel)
>>>>Subject: Re: Is Garion a disciple ?
>>>>Date: 29 Dec 1995 16:50:42 -0500
>>>>Ok, yes, Garion is a disciple. BEL-Garion. The BEL- signifies
>>>>discipleship to Aldur, as does the POL- for Polgara.
>>>>(this is my boyfriend's theory, he seems to have discounted BEL-Daran, and
>>>>POL-Edra.)
>>>>Ok, he wasn't discounting. Poledra had a VERY special relationship with
>>>>Aldur that we don't really understand even yet, so she's a special case.
>>>>And the rules of prefixes don't apply to Beldaran because she wasn't a
>>>>sorceress so the prefix was merely out of respect to her father or some
>>>>such. Talk to Beldin. He seems to have named them.
>>>The bel/pol prefixes are added BY ALDUR, as a signification of his love to
>>>those he gives them to. Beldaran's is out of love, not because she is a
>>>disciple.
>>>[repeated thread counter: #670,000]
>>> "Who owns a man? The one who rules him,
>>> or the one who pays him?" -Eriond
>>> Justin "Skale" Hall hal...@one.net
>>> http://w3.one.net/~halldp/index.htm
>>Justin ,
>>Are we getting a little testy or what?
>>It must be the holiday droops...
>NO !!
>Pol and Bel were references to Belgareths original tribe. Ill give you
>the page and book if you really require it
I know that. The prefixes meant "beloved" in his language. Aldur gave it to
Belgarath originally as a sign of his affection, and kept giving it to his
other disciples later. Not too hard to understand.
>hal...@one.net (Justin Hall) wrote:
>>[repeated thread counter: #670,000]
>Justin, do you have all this in memory so you can just paste it in, or
>what?? hehehe
>Eric
of course i do..that's my job. :)
> Re: immortality and discipleship. Sinji was immortal. Senji asn't
>a disciple. OK?
I think i undertand what this says, but you might wanna repost it in english.
ANYWAY: Senji is not the case, as we are discussing Aldur's disciples. Senji
was an atheist.
>CBNagel wrote:
>>
>> Ok, yes, Garion is a disciple. BEL-Garion. The BEL- signifies
>> discipleship to Aldur, as does the POL- for Polgara.
>> (this is my boyfriend's theory, he seems to have discounted BEL-Daran, and
>> POL-Edra.)
>> Ok, he wasn't discounting. Poledra had a VERY special relationship with
>> Aldur that we don't really understand even yet, so she's a special case.
>> And the rules of prefixes don't apply to Beldaran because she wasn't a
>> sorceress so the prefix was merely out of respect to her father or some
>> such. Talk to Beldin. He seems to have named them.
>Is it possible that Beldaran was born with that name? Did
>Polgara formerly used to be known as Gara? I'm not sure about
>this, so any input is desired. The BEL's on all the men seemed
>to be 'tacked' on at some later point. Did Beldaran, Poledra,
>and Polgara ever have previous names? I mean, is there really a
>law that prevents the use of Bel-something on anyone but Aldur's
>disciples?
Since as of yet, we don't have any knowledge of details of what happened in
the Vale while they were retrieving the orb, we can't tell whether or not
Beldin, who delivered the children, named them Gara and Daran, or Polgara and
Beldaran. What it seems to me is that because Polgara was firstborn, they
knew she'd be the sorcerer, and called her "Pol"gara. As for Beldaran, she was
probably born with the Bel in the Beloved case. This is all sepcuation,
however.
Something that bothered me: the name of the first Rivan heir after Gorek's
assassination was named Daran. This is a male name. could Beldaran be the
female version of this name?
anyway..
>In article <4c9maj$d...@texas.nwlink.com> mar...@nwlink.com (Martel) writes:
>>From: mar...@nwlink.com (Martel)
>>Subject: Re: Is Garion a disciple ?
>>Date: Mon, 01 Jan 1996 22:15:05 GMT
>>hal...@one.net (Justin Hall) wrote:
>>>[repeated thread counter: #670,000]
>>Justin, do you have all this in memory so you can just paste it in, or
>>what?? hehehe
>>Eric
>of course i do..that's my job. :)
> "Who owns a man? The one who rules him,
> or the one who pays him?" -Eriond
> Justin "Skale" Hall hal...@one.net
> http://w3.one.net/~halldp/index.htm
;}
Thought so..
Eric
With respect to the nameing of Belgarath's girls, we would have to wait
for BEldin's explanation, since he named them. I'm not even sure we will
get that answer in the next book. As to whether it was known that Polgara
would grow up to be a sorceress, yes it was, since Belgarath marked her
hair with the streak when he laid his hand on her head in benediction.
"
"What a wonder!" Beltira gasped. "Not really," Beldin disagreed. "She's
his firstborn, and he just marked her. Unless I miss my guess, she's going
to grow up to be a sorcerer."
"
They carry on a bit more about semantics, but they did know Polgara would
grow up to be a sorceress.
SHA
>
> --
> SPARKY
> "I don't want to hear from those who know,
> They can buy my pants, put on my clothes..."
> Corduroy
--
"Energize" said Kirk, and a pink bunny appeared.
Dr Sumihisa Aota
Then Gmo...@Nando.net (Gmoney) replied:
>Wait just a cottom pickin' minute.
>What do you mean this is you job.
>
Ah, obviously you aren't a long time reader of a.f.e.,
and didn't realized that we all have designated assignments.
For example, Justin is The Keeper of The Thread Count.
Donal is the Group Memory. The currently MIA Kalten is
the official group Smartass. And *I* am the Doddering Oldster.
We have an open for a Naive Straight Man? Care to apply? ;-)
--
Amy I. Sheldon
ai...@po.cwru.edu
Okay...just read this last night, so dug up the passage, as I remembered
this discussion while I was reading.... From the hardbound edition of the
first three books of the Belgariad, pg. 514 (Magician's Gambit, near the
end of Chapter Ten).
The old sorcerer put his arm around the boy's shoulders. "I thought you
might see things that way, Belgarion. You're bound to this the same way we
all are."
The strange thrill he always felt at the sound of his other, secret
name ran through Garion. "Why do you all insist on calling me that?" he
asked.
"Belgarion?" Wolf said mildly. "Think, boy. Think what it means. I
haven't been talking to you and telling you stories all these years just
because I like the sound of my own voice."
Garion turned it over carefully in his mind. "You were Garath," he
mused thoughtfully, "but the God Aldur changed your name to Belgarath.
Zedar was Zedar first and then Belzedar -- and then he went back to being
Zedar again."
"And in my old tribe, Polgara would have just been Gara. Pol is like
Bel. The only difference is that she's a woman. Her name comes from mine
-- because she's my daughter. Your name comes from mine, too."
"Garion -- Garath," the boy said. "Belgarath -- Belgarion. It all fits
together, doesn't it?"
"Naturally," the old man replied. "I'm glad you noticed it."
Now, this doesn't really address Beldaran or Poledra, or many of the
others, but it does shed some light on Polgara's name...
/------------------------------------------------------\
| Woody Hanscom | wo...@alaska.net | I tried I gave up |
|-----------------------------------------\ I threw it |
| http://www.alaska.net/~woody/woody.html | away... |
\ NEW! Are you a Woody? Do you know any \------------/
>> Woody's? Would you like to? Check out my newest /-/
/ piece of drivel, the Web-Wide Woody's page... /
| http://www.alaska.net/~woody/www.html /---------/
\--------------------------------------/
No, Ce'Nedra's tree is in the wood of the dryads. What they planted in the
Citadel garden was acorns from Ce'Nedra's and Xantha's trees to get Ce'Nedra
pregnant.
>As someone so endearingly put, maybe I should be the newbie smasher..
>;} hehehe Just kidding.. And thanks Justin for defending me when that
>was said..
>Eric
>http://nwlink.com/~martel
hehehe...i wondered when someone was gonna characterize me...:) Since you're
so good at it, Eric, we should make you the crusher of newbies..sounds like
fun..:P
This also means one of two things, Polgara was BORN Gara,
Belgarath touched her and she became Polgara, or she was born
Polgara which wouldn't make sense, since they didn't know until
Belgarath touched her that she'd be a sorcerer. Your answer
helps clear up the Pol issue, Joy, thanks. I'm still trying to
figure out 'Bel'Daran if 'Pol' is the female version of Bel.
It's very confusing! Bel must mean BOTH male sorcerer
(except female sorcerers) and Beloved (female non-sorcerers
included). Go figure.
Adding to the confusion.
You've just hit upon a long standing debate...We're not sure why. I'm of the opinion
that the "Bel" or "Pol" doesn't mean that you're a disciple, but that's off the subject.
Maybe Eddings simply didn't want to, "Beldurnik" being too long to type over and over
and it sounding kind of silly. :)
And maybe because Durnik wouldn't have wanted to have his name changed. He's a
simple man, or at least pretends to be, and as Belgarath told Zackath it takes several
years to grind off the rough edges of the "Bel". (Garion's still tends to squeak when he
turns around suddenly...) It *is* a trifle formal, and Durnik wouldn't want that. :)
--
Trooper Osirus, Doberman Empire:
"Behold, the Pale Horse, and the man who sat on him was Death, and Hell followed
with him..."
Death is the best part of life. That's why they save it for last.
Doom on you.| The universe is full of surprises. Most of them nasty.
Wait a minute, this isn't Pismal Beach... I knew I should have taken that left at
Albiqurque...
Friendly fire...Is never friendly...and is a Class A Goatfuck!-Lictalon Crager, 85 P.A.
Q:What do Chtorrans call a stampede?
A: An interesting challenge.
>>>hal...@one.net (Justin Hall) wrote:
>>
>>>>of course i do..that's my job. :)
>Then Gmo...@Nando.net (Gmoney) replied:
>>Wait just a cottom pickin' minute.
>>What do you mean this is you job.
>>
>Ah, obviously you aren't a long time reader of a.f.e.,
>and didn't realized that we all have designated assignments.
>For example, Justin is The Keeper of The Thread Count.
>Donal is the Group Memory. The currently MIA Kalten is
>the official group Smartass. And *I* am the Doddering Oldster.
>We have an open for a Naive Straight Man? Care to apply? ;-)
>--
>Amy I. Sheldon
>ai...@po.cwru.edu
Sure thing partner..
I really should appoligize for my ignorance (and my typing errors)..
Wasn't trying to be a smart ___! Justin is one of my favorite
orators...
Please forgive me...
Gmoney
>I think this leaves us back at the beginning. Knowing the birth
>names of Polgara and Beldaran seems important in the whole
>'prefixing' thing, perhaps the next book will reveal this.
>
>Did they really know Polgara was going to be a sorceress? How
>did Poledra get her name? Is it possible that the Pol means
>NOTHING? That Polgara is just an offshoot out of repspect to
>Poledra? Was Poledra formerly just Edra the Wolf? I didn't
>think wolves used names, so I think her name was always
>Poledra.(Could be wrong.)
>
>So, 'Bel' means beloved, does it have to be masculine or
>feminine, or even sorcerous or diciple oriented? That would
>help explain Beldaran. Reply early, reply often, folks.
Belgarath states that Pol is the female equivalent of 'Bel'and that in
>Joy Green wrote:
>>
>> Belgarath states that Pol is the female equivalent of 'Bel'and that in
>> his village, Polgara would just have been called Gara. Polgara was
>> obviously going to be a sorceress from the very beginning - see the
>> sorcerors mark - her white lock.
>>
>> As far as Poledra is concerned she didn't *have* a name as a wolf, and in
>> becoming a woman, she certainly exhibited certain sorcerous skills -
>> therefore 'Pol-Edra' - probably named by Aldur (maybe Edra *means*
>> wolf?!!)
>>
>> Beldaran was obviously *not* a sorceress and therefore couldn't be
>> 'Pol' but was equally obviously lovable - hence 'Bel'for beloved.
>>
>> Just my small currency contribution
>>
>> JoyThanks, Joy, that clears things up. Do remember where Belgarath
>syas that though? Just curious, I seem to remember it also now.
>Still Beldaran bothers me, since 'Bel' is used as BOTH beloved
>AND Sorcerer/Disciple/whatever which Beldaran was not. And if
>Pol is the female euivelent of Bel, doesn't that imply 'Bel' be
>masculine? Hence Beldaran again, why not Poldaran.
>This also means one of two things, Polgara was BORN Gara,
>Belgarath touched her and she became Polgara, or she was born
>Polgara which wouldn't make sense, since they didn't know until
>Belgarath touched her that she'd be a sorcerer. Your answer
>helps clear up the Pol issue, Joy, thanks. I'm still trying to
>figure out 'Bel'Daran if 'Pol' is the female version of Bel.
>It's very confusing! Bel must mean BOTH male sorcerer
>(except female sorcerers) and Beloved (female non-sorcerers
>included). Go figure.
>Adding to the confusion.
>--
>SPARKY
>"I don't want to hear from those who know,
>They can buy my pants, put on my clothes..."
>Corduroy
Where "I" come from, "BEL" means a thing you toll, or sound.. And
"POL" means a thing you stick in the ground.. Hope this clears it up..
Eric
Belgarion and Ce´Nedra named their first daughter Beldaran. Dou you think
that she can... Na
that was a totally pointless post. If you're going to ask if she can perform
sorcery, no she cannot. If she could, DE would have mentioned it after she was
born.
>this is a test this is only a test
DUDE, your test failed!!
Eric
>>=20
>>=20
>Not necessarily, ok I don't think she will be a sorceress, but why would=20
>he mention it after her birth. even garion didn't start showing signs of=20
>sorcery ie hearing other people perform it until QoS when he was about=20
>15(16?)=09
But it was always know that garion would be a sorcerer he just hadn't started yet.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/Don't believe in conspiracy theories. They are all a plan of the/
/intelligentsia to stop us finding out the truth. /
/----------------------------------------------------------------/
/Dave Howdon - dh...@cam.ac.uk /
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Justin Hall wrote:
> In article <4du6vs$6...@mn5.swip.net> Magican <m-3...@mailbox.swipnet.se>=
writes:
> >From: Magican <m-3...@mailbox.swipnet.se>
> >Subject: Re: Polgara's name
> >Date: 21 Jan 1996 20:17:00 GMT
>=20
> >sgc...@york.ac.uk (Simon Challands) wrote:
> >>Paul Farris (pa...@vossnet.co.uk) wrote:
> >>
> >>: Considering that Beldaran is the only exception to the Bel/Pol prefix
> >>: rule, I thought that DE made the rule up half way through _PoP_ and
> >>: Beldaran slipped past the editing.
> >>
> >>: I hope that the reason is given in _Polgara the Sorcerer_, and this
> >>: thread will finally be killed off.
> >>
> >>Another possibilty is that Beldaran is a stand-alone name, and that the
> >>"Bel" in this case is purely coincidental.
> >>
> >> Simon II
>=20
> >Belgarion and Ce=B4Nedra named their first daughter Beldaran. Dou you th=
ink=20
> >that she can... Na
>=20
> that was a totally pointless post. If you're going to ask if she can perf=
orm=20
> sorcery, no she cannot. If she could, DE would have mentioned it after sh=
e was=20
> born.
>=20
> "Who owns a man? The one who rules him, =20
> or the one who pays him?" -Eriond =09=09=09=09 =09
> Justin "Skale" Hall hal...@one.net
> http://w3.one.net/~halldp/index.htm
>>Not necessarily, ok I don't think she will be a sorceress, but why would=20
>>he mention it after her birth. even garion didn't start showing signs of=20
>>sorcery ie hearing other people perform it until QoS when he was about=20
>>15(16?)=09
>But it was always know that garion would be a sorcerer he just hadn't started yet.
But WE, the reader, didn't know. I started suspecting Garion was a sorcerer
early in PoP when he touched Pol's hair, and saw a vision of Belgarath. As for
Garion's daughter, i wondered why she wasn't a sorcerer, she has the genes.
maybe the trait is recessive.. but if she was, it would have said SOMETHING.
Garion, Belgarath, one of the characters would have seen her power.
"Who owns a man? The one who rules him,
or the one who pays him?" -Eriond
Not necessarily...we didn't know that Galrion was "Belgarion" until
halfway through PoP...and even then we only suspected it. But can you
imagine poor Beldaran's name if she did turn out to be sorcerous?
"PolBeldaran"...
--
Dean Robb
PC-Easy
On-site computer services and consulting
pce...@nofolk.infi.net
Seeing as Beldaran had no powers of sorcery, there would be no reason for
her to have the Pol prefix on her name. Although why she has the Bel
still baffles me.
: >>>Another possibilty is that Beldaran is a stand-alone name, and that the
: >>>"Bel" in this case is purely coincidental.
This would have to be my guess too.
We are told that the "Bel" stood for beloved, and was the title of a
deciple of Aldur. In that sense, it is Garion who really shouldn't
have been wearing it until Aldur himself gave it to him. Beldaran may
not have been a deciple in the true sense, but she was certainly
beloved of everyone around at the time. The "bel" would therefore not
be purely coincidental, but have a somewhat different connotation.
The "Pol" on the front of Polgara, on the other hand, could have stood
for an archaic (and now forgotten) feminine version of the word
'beloved' that was implied sorcery in this context only.
Pam
Another possibility is that Beldaran's name could reflect some sort of
wolfly naming etiquette which we haven't been told about. That way one
daughter would be following the naming tradition of each parent: Belgarath
-> Polgara, Poledra -> Belderan. Notice that the edra in Poledra's name
are rearranged into the dera in Belderan's. This is only speculation
though.
Amitabh
Except that Beldaran is spelled with an 'a'.
Annette |\ _,,,---,,_
The Merchandise Queen ZZzzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_
Member Sydney Loganians |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
Communications Officer '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL
- Newsship ATXF "Wake me when when Season 3 arrives..."
---------------------------RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY---------------------------
Another chiropractic invention fills an entire room at the Palmer
Institute. I am not sure exactly what it does, but its name is
magnificent. It is called an electroencephaloneuromentimpograph.
------ "Fads and Fallacies", Martin Gardner
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Amitabh S. Bedi wrote:
> In article <DLy6q...@cunews.carleton.ca>, pwo...@superior.carleton.ca
> (pamela wolff) wrote:
>
> > >Another possibilty is that Beldaran is a stand-alone name, and that
> the >"Bel" in this case is purely coincidental.
> >
> > We are told that the "Bel" stood for beloved, and was the title of a >
> deciple of Aldur. In that sense, it is Garion who really shouldn't > have
> been wearing it until Aldur himself gave it to him. Beldaran may > not
> have been a deciple in the true sense, but she was certainly > beloved of
> everyone around at the time. The "bel" would therefore not > be purely
> coincidental, but have a somewhat different connotation. > The "Pol" on
> the front of Polgara, on the other hand, could have stood > for an archaic
> (and now forgotten) feminine version of the word > 'beloved' that was
> implied sorcery in this context only.
> >
> > Pam
>
> Another possibility is that Beldaran's name could reflect some sort of
> wolfly naming etiquette which we haven't been told about. That way one
> daughter would be following the naming tradition of each parent: Belgarath
> -> Polgara, Poledra -> Belderan. Notice that the edra in Poledra's name
> are rearranged into the dera in Belderan's. This is only speculation
> though.
>
> Amitabh
>
>
Unlikely, doesn't it say somewhere that wolves don't have names? (Ok
Poledra's not really a wolf anymore so she doesn't count.)
> >
> > Another possibility is that Beldaran's name could reflect some sort of
> > wolfly naming etiquette which we haven't been told about. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aren`t we told that wolves dont have names as they have no need of them?
Chris
__ __ __ __
/|()|\ || || ___ __ ____ ||__ ____ "It went really fast,
||==|| || || (__ | | || |) || _// just not in the right direction"
|| || || || ___) |__| || ||_/ //__
> Yes, my suggestion about a wolfly namely etiquette is undoubtedly
>wrong. I remember a wolf (Poledra?) saying "What need do wolves have for
>names?" or something like that. I still find the naming business
>perplexing. If they were naming Belderan after her mother why doesn't she
>have a 'Pol' in her name?
Who said they were naming Beldaran after her mother? Poledra's name could mean
either sorceress or beloved, or both, we don't know. As for Beldaran, her Bel
is not a prefix.