Draconity
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
Nevertheless, I do hope that those are interested and who answer this
will give a sincere answer, and those who aren't will give some leeway
for my beliefs.
Part of the reason why I joined alt.fan.dragons is to meet up with
other dragons. Now, that much is intuitively obvious, but I have to
admit I'm more than just role-playing here. I actually do believe I'm
a dragon, at least in part.
I have to admit I'm really confused at this point, so I decided to
turn to you guys. What actually makes a dragon, besides things like
past lives and such (which I don't quite have as of yet)? I did a
whole LJ-post on it, and I thought I was in the (relative) clear until
I read this:
http://www.draconic.com/fordragons/
So now I'm even more confused. I realize that there's no one
definition, but I do want to know if I'm really fooling myself -
either way.
If anyone's interested, I'll email them my whole post and any other
details I feel are relevant, as well as my MSN if necessary. I would
talk to someone closer, but there isn't anyone closer as of yet.
Meliral
... I would trim that, but I can't see anything that I can safely take
out.
In my opinion, there are two or three major possible reasons that most
dragons have a unique idea of what a dragon, well, is. One is that there
are many creatures, all strange and wonderful, but we have no name for
any of them beyond "dragon". I know for certain that there have been
those on this list who were not exactly dragons by any popular
definition, even some of the broadest, but nevertheless felt that it was
the closest word that could describe what they are in this language.
Presumably in any other language they spoke, too.
Another is that there are many worlds, many realities, all with a
different type or set of types of dragons, and that we, some of the
dragons of this world, are the effect of them leaking across the edges.
In effect, we may exist the way we do because we are a manifestation of
how many different realities bleeding together, if that makes sense.
A final possibility is that we are merely aspects of the beings we choose
to call "dragon", that in fact our differences are simply facets of a
whole, or even the variation that happens between individuals of any
manner of creature. This would imply that there is in fact something
that unifies us, but since we have not managed to pin it down, maybe it
cannot be expressed in words, at least in human language. Perhaps we
need words of our own to describe that which links us, because human
language was not designed to deal with such beings as ourselves.
I hope that makes sense. Feel free to contact me off-list or anything
like that if you wish to talk.
--
Meliral, He Who Seeks Sig-Content In The Depths Of His Mind And Fails
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
Don't worry, the post-thingy trims that automatically (at least, mine
does).
Actually, what you wrote wasn't exactly what I had in mind, but oh
well... it's interesting reading anyway. What I kinda meant was more
on "how do I know if I'm a dragon?"
Fortunately - or not - I read through the thing again and I realized
that the guy who wrote that, KaniS, didn't actually have draconic
visions or anything (as far as I can tell), but he does consider
himself a dragon. I had gotten the impression that all dragons MUST
have a vision of some sort, previously, so it was a bit of a damper.
I'm longing to meet someone who really knows his way around this kind
of stuff, actually. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I might take you
up on that talk.
Meliral
<snip>
...Oh, yes, so you did. I'm afraid I got sidetracked. It happens a lot
to me. Aaaanyway, I'm not sure that there's a single way to know.
Some feel it in their bones (metaphorically or, in some cases, literally)
while it's simply the only logical conclusion for others. In a way, it
doesn't matter if you're right or not - what's real enough for you is all
that matters.
As for whether you're deluding yourself, it's possible, though if you've
felt different in this way for as long as your introductory post suggests
I doubt it. It's altogether possible that you're something else again,
and the closest thing you know of now is dragons. Or maybe you're
spiritually/mentally/etc an uncontrolled shifter - meaning that your
nature doesn't settle permanently as one sort of being, but dances
spontaneously and at random intervals from one to another.
However, see belw:
> I'm longing to meet someone who really knows his way around this kind of
> stuff, actually.
<snip>
That's probably not me. I develop ideas rapidly, but haven't devoted the
time to know the subject inside out.
Whatever you find yourself to be, go well, and let your nature shine
through the limitations (or not) of your current form. That's all any of
us can truly hope for, especially if we're human in shape.
Anvil*
>
> "how do I know if I'm a dragon?"
>
thoughts drift by:
-----
one tries, taking a step they believe forward
wearing a dragon's mantle works for some, seeing how it fits
taking it off later many, dragon being a smaller facet of self than
first seeming
anchoring others being a significant portion of their being, growing
either way
gathering the facets of self, fitting them into your whole
taking time/thought the knowing, learning to be your self
--
Anvil*
-----
Bax another resource, here:
http://www.tomorrowlands.org/draconity/index.html
Lord Flame Stryke
4634-96e6-c...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
I haven't read the article you linked to, and I doubt if I ever will.
What makes me a dragon isn't something that someone else posts, it's
what I believe, and nothing will ever change that belief, short of
conclusive proof that I'm not a dragon. And since I won't accept
anything as simple as a DNA test to prove that I'm, in fact, human, that
would be difficult. I accept that I'm in a human host. That doesn't
change anything.
I can't look at you and say, "You're a dragon." I can't look at you and
say, "You're not a dragon." All I can do is look at you, hear what you
think of yourself and how you describe yourself, and agree with you.
There are as many different descriptions of dragons as there are
dragons. Myself, for example. I'm closest to a Western-style dragon.
I'm not serpentine, I've got a longer neck than a human, and I've got a
tail and wings, but other than that, I'm proportioned much like a human
is. I'm also bipedal, which is the major difference between myself and
Western-style dragons.
Also, something to keep in mind. On maps, sailors used to put the
notice, "Here there be dragons" because they didn't know what to expect
there, and that's exactly how dragons are -- you never know what to
expect.
I, myself, don't "think" I'm a dragon. I know I'm a dragon. I have a
general idea of what I look like, but fine details are still fuzzy, even
after 31 years in a human host, and after about 16 years of remembering
who and what I am. So if you don't feel as strongly as some of us, or
feel stronger that some of us, don't be worried or upset. Things take
time. And you might even find out that you're not a dragon at all.
Some people Here have found that out about themselves. As anvil said in
a different post, not all of us are dragons Here, but all of us are
welcome Here.
And if you do want to send me your background, I'll send you mine as
well, or at least as much of it as I can remember, and as much of a
description of myself as I can see.
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr+++ Nm M+ O
H+ $ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++
Draco nigrum, oculi rubere, suppositus, magus.
Holder of the Scroll of Nobility from Lady Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand
of Sparklies in its case from Hex, Wielder of the Lady Viri Signature
4x8 from Ysable, Eater of the Mint Cheesecake from Whisper, Mate to Lady
Viriatha, Owner of Flame Stryke's Windex� Factory, Lord Balloonmaker,
Borrower of the Ebony Wood Fife from Luxatos, Accepter of the Small
Statue of a Green Dragon Covered in Ice Cream Toppings from Juniper,
Employer of a miniature Jester doll from SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic
Ever-Bill from SeaKing, Carrier of the gold piece from whisper: o,
Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep, First Dragon of Realism, Giver of the
Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos, Winner of the *shiny* riddle award from
Pegasus, Wearer of the big *shiny* medal of posting-ness from Pegasus,
Taker of the Gold Medal for Most Posts in March 2007 (369), Aquirer of
the little blue flower from Pegasus, Requirer of the .sig barber as
informed by Lady Viriatha
--
"The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which
failed to start because of the following error: The operation completed
successfully." -- Windows NT Server v3.51
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
> "Drak'rrth Ssekmith" <drakr...@gmail.com> wrote in news:f38ae2c3-bd23-
> 4634-96e6-c3be48ab2...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
Ah... I admit I was slightly hesitant at reading such a long reply,
precisely because I did not know what to expect. In a roundabout way,
I suppose that does apply to my situation.
The primary reason why I have been reading all this stuff is because,
well, I don't quite trust myself to judge myself, and I don't really
have anyone to do so for me - hence, this. I do know that
theoretically, a dragon can be anything, but one problem I tend to
have is worrying too much about being rejected. I have held this
identity for six months, and I've grown quite attached to it, to the
point where I've actually started thinking (slightly) like one. So I'm
slightly nervous about being found out NOT to be a dragon. Thus the
endless questioning and such.
From what I get, draconity may only be a smaller facet of myself than
it seems, or may be a significant part of it; either way, I should
take time to know and learn.
And yeah, I saw that resource before this current one.
On Sep 15, 12:29 am, Meliral <neversaymon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:11:00 -0700, Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
> > On Sep 14, 10:06 pm, Meliral <neversaymon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:21:15 -0700, Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
> >> > How odd, that my second post here would contain such depth.
> >> > Nevertheless, I do hope that those are interested and who answer this
> >> > will give a sincere answer, and those who aren't will give some
> >> > leeway for my beliefs.
>
> >> > Part of the reason why I joined alt.fan.dragons is to meet up with
> >> > other dragons. Now, that much is intuitively obvious, but I have to
> >> > admit I'm more than just role-playing here. I actually do believe I'm
> >> > a dragon, at least in part.
>
> >> > I have to admit I'm really confused at this point, so I decided to
> >> > turn to you guys. What actually makes a dragon, besides things like
> >> > past lives and such (which I don't quite have as of yet)? I did a
> >> > whole LJ-post on it, and I thought I was in the (relative) clear
> >> > until I read this:
>
> >> >http://www.draconic.com/fordragons/
>
> >> > So now I'm even more confused. I realize that there's no one
> >> > definition, but I do want to know if I'm really fooling myself -
> >> > either way.
>
> >> > If anyone's interested, I'll email them my whole post and any other
> >> > details I feel are relevant, as well as my MSN if necessary. I would
> >> > talk to someone closer, but there isn't anyone closer as of yet.
>
> > "how do I know if I'm a dragon?"
>
Not too sure about the shape-changing thing, but if it helps, while I
still considered myself a furry (and thus my draconic identity a
fursona), I had considered taking another fursona. However, I realized
that, somehow, I didn't feel comfortable with any other species, and I
checked around 30 or so of the more popular phenotypes. Not sure if
it's a gut reaction or what.
Ah, I'm still not sure who or what I am. But then again, adolescents
are notorious for these kind of questions. I'll stick with my draconic
identity for a while, but if something appears... incompatible... then
I'll do a check. Or even if it's the other way around.
As for background... I'm figuring I should just post my LJ journal
link here, but the relevant posts are currently locked and tagged.
I'll get around to unlocking them some day, but for now, I'll just
post my link:
http://drakrrth.livejournal.com/
(It's no secret that a basic name search will usually turn these kind
of things up, but this removes that particular red-tape.)
Anvil*
>
>From what I get, draconity may only be a smaller facet of myself
>than it seems, or may be a significant part of it; either way, I should
>take time to know and learn.
thoughts drift by:
-----
> still considered myself a furry
>
honorific nod given by many furry, scalely a term often used
> my link:
>
found earlier, some concern on one three year goal
understanding cannot be forced it must grow, it is alien to most
if they are perceptive they will come to know/feel it, perhaps accept
announcing without understanding erupts conflict/unease
be who you are, open but without any labels to them
you are not many poor assumptions tied to a label
you are your self learning
--
Anvil*
Meliral
> The primary reason why I have been reading all this stuff is because,
> well, I don't quite trust myself to judge myself, and I don't really
> have anyone to do so for me - hence, this. I do know that theoretically,
> a dragon can be anything, but one problem I tend to have is worrying too
> much about being rejected. I have held this identity for six months, and
> I've grown quite attached to it, to the point where I've actually
> started thinking (slightly) like one. So I'm slightly nervous about
> being found out NOT to be a dragon. Thus the endless questioning and
> such.
I can't understand this exactly, not being you, but I can understand
something that I believe is similar, if you see what I mean. In fact, if
I say that I understand anything pertaining to others in this sort of
context, assume that the previous sentence applies.
Now then. I can see why you would be nervous about being found out not
to be draconic, but my personal opinion is that even if you turn out not
to be, if it's real _enough_ for you then it simply _doesn't matter_. It
is, in effect, real enough. I firmly believe that _only_ oneself can be
trusted to judge oneself. Of course, this is a hell of a lot easier in
theory than practice.
It's a case (for me, often, at least) of "I know intellectually, but my
subconscious objects", even though my instincts and my intuition (which
is usually extremely reliable" are telling me that my draconicity is
absolutely real. I've got a semi-conscious compulsion that I can't seem
to suppress to distrust my instinct and intuition, even though they've
proved right an overwhelmingly large proportion of the time. I suspect
it's the same for many others, yourself possibly included
> Not too sure about the shape-changing thing, but if it helps, while I
> still considered myself a furry (and thus my draconic identity a
> fursona), I had considered taking another fursona. However, I realized
> that, somehow, I didn't feel comfortable with any other species, and I
> checked around 30 or so of the more popular phenotypes. Not sure if it's
> a gut reaction or what.
>
> Ah, I'm still not sure who or what I am. But then again, adolescents are
> notorious for these kind of questions. I'll stick with my draconic
> identity for a while, but if something appears... incompatible... then
> I'll do a check. Or even if it's the other way around.
>
A process of elimination is as good a way as any to determine your own
nature. It's better yet if it merely confirms what you already know in
your bones or biology-dependent equivalent. Hey, not everyone is
necessarily human-formed on here, though at the moment I certainly am.
Much as I wish I wasn't.
Bear in mind, though, that nothing anyone else says on the subject should
be regarded as absolute truth - unless they have actually tapped into
your mind including your subconscious and know exactly what is true for
you... if you see what I mean. Yes, that was convoluted. I do that a
lot.
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
caring so much any more about whether or not I'm really draconity - my
final stand lies at "it's true for me, no matter what others say". In
the end, I think that it's just another belief among others - beliefs
are unique, and beliefs can change.
Somehow, I wonder why I come up with these Zen-like conclusions -at
the very end-. Anyway, thanks to all those who replied and were
patient enough to read through my post. Let's discuss something else
now.
Lord Flame Stryke
>> > So now I'm even more confused. I realize that there's no one
>> > definition, but I do want to know if I'm really fooling myself -
>> > either way.
>> > If anyone's interested, I'll email them my whole post and any other
>> > details I feel are relevant, as well as my MSN if necessary. I
>> > would talk to someone closer, but there isn't anyone closer as of
>> > yet.
>> I can't look at you and say, "You're a dragon." �I can't look at you
>> and say, "You're not a dragon." �All I can do is look at you, hear
>> what you think of yourself and how you describe yourself, and agree
>> with you. � There are as many different descriptions of dragons as
>> there are dragons. �Myself, for example. �I'm closest to a
>> Western-style dragon.
>> I, myself, don't "think" I'm a dragon. �I know I'm a dragon. �I have
>> a general idea of what I look like, but fine details are still fuzzy,
>> even after 31 years in a human host, and after about 16 years of
>> remembering who and what I am. �So if you don't feel as strongly as
>> some of us, or feel stronger that some of us, don't be worried or
>> upset. �Things take time. �And you might even find out that you're
>> not a dragon at all. � Some people Here have found that out about
>> themselves. �As anvil said in a different post, not all of us are
>> dragons Here, but all of us are welcome Here.
>> And if you do want to send me your background, I'll send you mine as
>> well, or at least as much of it as I can remember, and as much of a
>> description of myself as I can see.
> Ah... I admit I was slightly hesitant at reading such a long reply,
> precisely because I did not know what to expect. In a roundabout way,
> I suppose that does apply to my situation.
Sorry, when I get onto a topic, sometime I tend to ramble.
> The primary reason why I have been reading all this stuff is because,
> well, I don't quite trust myself to judge myself, and I don't really
> have anyone to do so for me - hence, this. I do know that
> theoretically, a dragon can be anything, but one problem I tend to
> have is worrying too much about being rejected. I have held this
> identity for six months, and I've grown quite attached to it, to the
> point where I've actually started thinking (slightly) like one. So I'm
> slightly nervous about being found out NOT to be a dragon. Thus the
> endless questioning and such.
Just because you have an identity to something and then find out that
you're not that thing after all doesn't necesarily mean your feelings of
identity are wrong or misguided. As was stated earlier, you might be a
changeling, and your form shifts to suit your mood. And you don't want
to make the mistake of trying to hold on to an identity that doesn't
fit. You'll end up feeing you don't belong all over again.
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr+++ Nm M+ O
H+ $ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++ Draco nigrum, oculi
rubere, suppositus, magus. Holder of the Scroll of Nobility from Lady
Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand of Sparklies in its case from Hex, Wielder
of the Lady Viri Signature 4x8 from Ysable, Eater of the Mint Cheesecake
from Whisper, Mate to Lady Viriatha, Owner of Flame Stryke's Windex�
Factory, Lord Balloonmaker, Borrower of the Ebony Wood Fife from
Luxatos, Accepter of the Small Statue of a Green Dragon Covered in Ice
Cream Toppings from Juniper, Employer of a miniature Jester doll from
SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic Ever-Bill from SeaKing, Carrier of the gold
piece from whisper: o, Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep, First Dragon of
Realism, Giver of the Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos, Winner of the
*shiny* riddle award from Pegasus, Wearer of the big *shiny* medal of
posting-ness from Pegasus, Taker of the Gold Medal for Most Posts in
March 2007 (369), Aquirer of the little blue flower from Pegasus,
Requirer of the .sig barber as informed by Lady Viriatha
--
%QUOTE
Lord Flame Stryke
4baa-aa4b-1...@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com:
Nonono, you can't force thread drift by asking for it, it has to come
naturally!! };=8�
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr+++ Nm M+ O
H+ $ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++
Draco nigrum, oculi rubere, suppositus, magus.
Holder of the Scroll of Nobility from Lady Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand
of Sparklies in its case from Hex, Wielder of the Lady Viri Signature
4x8 from Ysable, Eater of the Mint Cheesecake from Whisper, Mate to Lady
Viriatha, Owner of Flame Stryke's Windex� Factory, Lord Balloonmaker,
Borrower of the Ebony Wood Fife from Luxatos, Accepter of the Small
Statue of a Green Dragon Covered in Ice Cream Toppings from Juniper,
Employer of a miniature Jester doll from SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic
Ever-Bill from SeaKing, Carrier of the gold piece from whisper: o,
Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep, First Dragon of Realism, Giver of the
Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos, Winner of the *shiny* riddle award from
Pegasus, Wearer of the big *shiny* medal of posting-ness from Pegasus,
Taker of the Gold Medal for Most Posts in March 2007 (369), Aquirer of
the little blue flower from Pegasus, Requirer of the .sig barber as
informed by Lady Viriatha
--
%QUOTE
Draco18s
2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, drak...@gmail.com says...
> Part of the reason why I joined alt.fan.dragons is to meet up with
> other dragons. Now, that much is intuitively obvious, but I have to
> admit I'm more than just role-playing here. I actually do believe I'm
> a dragon, at least in part.
Except for a dragon who's name I can't spell *search* "Lkuznac Acigt-x",
I don't think any of us here are role playing (Simon role plays said
dragon for reasons known to him--if he's said, I've forgotten--and makes
it pretty clear that he's doing it--at least, once in a while, he's
caught a few people off guard). Lkuznac is the only /non-human/ here,
due to the nature of his existence.
Again, welcome to the fold.
--
Lord Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr++ Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++
Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bearer of the Bronze Medal for Most Posts in March 2007 (283)
Bearer of the Gold Medal for Most Posts in April 2007 (826)
Holder of the Scroll of Nobility from Lady Viriatha for that win
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
newsgroup was for roleplaying, Herpetophile mailing list was for
scaled erotica, and that was about all there was that I ever found..."
So I was wondering as such.
Anyway, I've more-or-less settled my inner demons now. I've decided
that my happiness and sanity comes before the truth, so I'm just
calling myself part-dragon for now. If, in a decade's time, I'm not
unhappy with it, that's fine by me. (Anyway, I may be too busy at work
- or finding work - to care by then.)
On Sep 19, 2:49 am, Draco18s <draco18s@DOES_NOT_LIKE_SPAM_gmail.com>
wrote:
> In article <f38ae2c3-bd23-4634-96e6-c3be48ab207e@
> 2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, drakr...@gmail.com says...
Draco18s
@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, drak...@gmail.com says...
> Hmm, well, I read the link up there and the guy said "Alt.fan.dragons
> newsgroup was for roleplaying, Herpetophile mailing list was for
> scaled erotica, and that was about all there was that I ever found..."
> So I was wondering as such.
Keep in mind that he wrote that like 10 years ago. 10 years ago AFD
practically /was/ for role playing (and I'm not even sure if the
Herpetophile mailing list still exists!). There are certainly more
communities now; heck AFD even split and there's an AFD web-based
message board now too (has been for 8+ years).
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
wrote:
> In article <33f99409-16d2-470b-8d72-4f1762417a70
> @i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, drakr...@gmail.com says...
Ah, okay. I suppose I should have taken note of the time in the first
place.
What's the message board about?
Draco18s
12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, drak...@gmail.com says...
> On Sep 19, 2:07=A0pm, Draco18s <draco18s@DOES_NOT_LIKE_SPAM_gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > In article <33f99409-16d2-470b-8d72-4f1762417a70
> > @i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, drakr...@gmail.com says...
> >
> > > Hmm, well, I read the link up there and the guy said "Alt.fan.dragons
> > > newsgroup was for roleplaying, Herpetophile mailing list was for
> > > scaled erotica, and that was about all there was that I ever found..."
> > > So I was wondering as such.
> >
> > practically /was/ for role playing (and I'm not even sure if the
> > communities now; heck AFD even split and there's an AFD web-based
> > message board now too (has been for 8+ years).
>
> place.
>
> What's the message board about?
Uhh...us?
I don't think we know any more.
Simon Richard Clarkstone
> Keep in mind that he wrote that like 10 years ago. 10 years ago AFD
> practically /was/ for role playing (and I'm not even sure if the
> Herpetophile mailing list still exists!). There are certainly more
> communities now; heck AFD even split and there's an AFD web-based
> message board now too (has been for 8+ years).
Also, there is #afd on Sorcerynet, which appears to have none of us in
it except sometimes me.
--
Simon Richard Clarkstone:
s.r.cl?rkst?n?@dunelm.org.uk / s?m?n_cl?rkst?n?@yahoo.co.uk
Citizen, listen: Kurt Vonnegut did not intend _The Euphio Question_
as a resolution to the Fermi Paradox. (Even he wasn't that depressing.)
Simon Richard Clarkstone
> In article <f38ae2c3-bd23-4634-96e6-c3be48ab207e@
> 2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>, drak...@gmail.com says...
>
>> Part of the reason why I joined alt.fan.dragons is to meet up with
>> other dragons. Now, that much is intuitively obvious, but I have to
>> admit I'm more than just role-playing here. I actually do believe I'm
>> a dragon, at least in part.
>
> Except for a dragon who's name I can't spell *search* "Lkuznac Acigt-x",
> I don't think any of us here are role playing (Simon role plays said
> dragon for reasons known to him--if he's said, I've forgotten--and makes
> it pretty clear that he's doing it--at least, once in a while, he's
> caught a few people off guard). Lkuznac is the only /non-human/ here,
> due to the nature of his existence.
Yup. I also believe all you lot to be wrong, but I wouldn't hang out
here if I cared about that.
Draco18s
s.r.cla...@dunelm.org.uk says...
> Draco18s wrote:
> > Lkuznac is the only /non-human/ here,
> > due to the nature of his existence.
>
> Yup. I also believe all you lot to be wrong, but I wouldn't hang out
> here if I cared about that.
Oh, we're certified bonkers. We know.
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
<s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
> Draco18s wrote:
> > In article <f38ae2c3-bd23-4634-96e6-c3be48ab207e@
>
> >> Part of the reason why I joined alt.fan.dragons is to meet up with
> >> other dragons. Now, that much is intuitively obvious, but I have to
> >> admit I'm more than just role-playing here. I actually do believe I'm
> >> a dragon, at least in part.
>
> > Except for a dragon who's name I can't spell *search* "Lkuznac Acigt-x",
> > I don't think any of us here are role playing (Simon role plays said
> > dragon for reasons known to him--if he's said, I've forgotten--and makes
> > it pretty clear that he's doing it--at least, once in a while, he's
> > caught a few people off guard). Lkuznac is the only /non-human/ here,
> > due to the nature of his existence.
>
> Yup. I also believe all you lot to be wrong, but I wouldn't hang out
> here if I cared about that.
>
> --
> Simon Richard Clarkstone:
> Citizen, listen: Kurt Vonnegut did not intend _The Euphio Question_
> as a resolution to the Fermi Paradox. (Even he wasn't that depressing.)
Well, I believe the Christians, the Muslims, the Jews, the Taoists,
the Buddhists, the Pagans, the Hindus, etc... to be wrong, but I don't
go on about it, do I? It's a person's own beliefs, let them have it.
Simon Richard Clarkstone
> On Sep 28, 3:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>> Draco18s wrote:
>>> Except for a dragon who's name I can't spell *search* "Lkuznac Acigt-x",
>>> I don't think any of us here are role playing (Simon role plays said
>>> dragon for reasons known to him--if he's said, I've forgotten--and makes
>>> it pretty clear that he's doing it--at least, once in a while, he's
>>> caught a few people off guard).
>> here if I cared about that.
>
> the Buddhists, the Pagans, the Hindus, etc... to be wrong, but I don't
> go on about it, do I? It's a person's own beliefs, let them have it.
I admit I was a bit blunt about it. It was an attempt to talk about myself.
I was telling you, and other new people, because it is unusual for here,
and to prevent nasty surprises ;-).
Maybe parentheses round that sentence would have helped.
--
Simon Richard Clarkstone:
s.r.cl?rkst?n?@dunelm.org.uk / s?m?n_cl?rkst?n?@yahoo.co.uk
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
<s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
> Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
> > On Sep 28, 3:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
> > <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
> >> Draco18s wrote:
> >>> Except for a dragon who's name I can't spell *search* "Lkuznac Acigt-x",
> >>> I don't think any of us here are role playing (Simon role plays said
> >>> dragon for reasons known to him--if he's said, I've forgotten--and makes
> >>> it pretty clear that he's doing it--at least, once in a while, he's
> >>> caught a few people off guard).
> >> Yup. I also believe all you lot to be wrong, but I wouldn't hang out
> >> here if I cared about that.
>
> > Well, I believe the Christians, the Muslims, the Jews, the Taoists,
> > the Buddhists, the Pagans, the Hindus, etc... to be wrong, but I don't
> > go on about it, do I? It's a person's own beliefs, let them have it.
>
> I admit I was a bit blunt about it. It was an attempt to talk about myself.
>
> I was telling you, and other new people, because it is unusual for here,
> and to prevent nasty surprises ;-).
>
> Maybe parentheses round that sentence would have helped.
>
> --
> Simon Richard Clarkstone:
> Citizen, listen: Kurt Vonnegut did not intend _The Euphio Question_
> as a resolution to the Fermi Paradox. (Even he wasn't that depressing.)
Well, okay. I don't know who else here is like that, but I just hope
they have the sense to keep themselves in check.
And maybe they would have.
Simon Richard Clarkstone
> On Oct 4, 5:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>> Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
>>> On Sep 28, 3:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
>>> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> Yup. I also believe all you lot to be wrong, but I wouldn't hang out
>>>> here if I cared about that.
>>> Well, I believe the Christians, the Muslims, the Jews, the Taoists,
>>> the Buddhists, the Pagans, the Hindus, etc... to be wrong, but I don't
>>> go on about it, do I? It's a person's own beliefs, let them have it.
>> I admit I was a bit blunt about it. It was an attempt to talk about myself.
>>
>> I was telling you, and other new people, because it is unusual for here,
>> and to prevent nasty surprises ;-).
>
> they have the sense to keep themselves in check.
Oh no, you can't keep me under control at all. :-P
(Unless you offer me an abstraction layer that gets rid of crap I don't
like, in which case I'll take it.)
--
Simon Richard Clarkstone:
s.r.cl?rkst?n?@dunelm.org.uk / s?m?n_cl?rkst?n?@yahoo.co.uk
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
<s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
> Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
> > On Oct 4, 5:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
> > <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
> >> Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
> >>> On Sep 28, 3:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
> >>> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
> >>>> Yup. I also believe all you lot to be wrong, but I wouldn't hang out
> >>>> here if I cared about that.
> >>> Well, I believe the Christians, the Muslims, the Jews, the Taoists,
> >>> the Buddhists, the Pagans, the Hindus, etc... to be wrong, but I don't
> >>> go on about it, do I? It's a person's own beliefs, let them have it.
> >> I admit I was a bit blunt about it. It was an attempt to talk about myself.
>
> >> I was telling you, and other new people, because it is unusual for here,
> >> and to prevent nasty surprises ;-).
>
> > Well, okay. I don't know who else here is like that, but I just hope
> > they have the sense to keep themselves in check.
>
> Oh no, you can't keep me under control at all. :-P
>
> (Unless you offer me an abstraction layer that gets rid of crap I don't
> like, in which case I'll take it.)
>
> --
> Simon Richard Clarkstone:
> Citizen, listen: Kurt Vonnegut did not intend _The Euphio Question_
> as a resolution to the Fermi Paradox. (Even he wasn't that depressing.)
I wouldn't mind such a filter myself, actually.
Greylight S.
I wouldn't mind a filter like that myself. I too believe I am a dragon
and, as a few around here know, have believed it for at least 10
years. One thing I'd like it to filter out is this new huge science
crusade movement that appears to be quickly dominating alot of
forums, chat rooms, MUCKS, mailing lists, etc. It states there is a
set of laws
of science to be followed by everyone whereby noone can believe they
are or are going to be a dragon anywhere irl PERIOD! This is stated
under this new movement as absolute fact because it is scientifically
proven impossible and there for the belief is not allowed. Spiritual,
RP, imagination are all viewed as one and the same under this new
movement and all belief that one is a dragon or will become a
dragon irl anywhere in any way whether it be roleplaying, spiritual,
imagined, religious, etc. will not be tolerated. Not saying all of
this necessarily because I agree with all of it or the intense
persecution going on as a result of it but more so people know it is
out there and fast growing in popularity on the net.
I'll admit I don't agree with some of it, especially not agreeing with
the persecution of all other beliefs thing. I'm not one for bringing
down everyone who has a different view from this so called "proven
scientific facts only" movement. I realize there are alot of unknowns
that cannot be proven scientifically yet that affect things. I think
I'll stop there so the freight train usually associated with it
doesn't come here or if it does so it won't get completely out of
control.
Greylight S.
Simon Richard Clarkstone
> On Oct 10, 9:12 pm, "Drak'rrth Ssekmith" <drakr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 11, 6:50 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
>> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
>>>> On Oct 4, 5:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
>>>> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
>>>>>> On Sep 28, 3:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
>>>>>> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yup. I also believe all you lot to be wrong, but I wouldn't hang out
>>>>>>> here if I cared about that.
>>>>>> Well, I believe the Christians, the Muslims, the Jews, the Taoists,
>>>>>> the Buddhists, the Pagans, the Hindus, etc... to be wrong, but I don't
>>>>> I admit I was a bit blunt about it. It was an attempt to talk about myself.
>>>>> I was telling you, and other new people, because it is unusual for here,
>>>>> and to prevent nasty surprises ;-).
>>>> Well, okay. I don't know who else here is like that, but I just hope
>>>> they have the sense to keep themselves in check.
>>> Oh no, you can't keep me under control at all. :-P
>>> (Unless you offer me an abstraction layer that gets rid of crap I don't
>>> like, in which case I'll take it.)
>
> I wouldn't mind a filter like that myself. I too believe I am a dragon
What does that actually mean? What external difference does it make
beyond what you believe? How would I tell if you hadn't told me?
> and, as a few around here know, have believed it for at least 10
> years. One thing I'd like it to filter out is this new huge science
> crusade movement that appears to be quickly dominating alot of
> forums, chat rooms, MUCKS, mailing lists, etc. It states there is a
> set of laws
> of science to be followed by everyone whereby noone can believe they
> are or are going to be a dragon anywhere irl PERIOD! This is stated
> under this new movement as absolute fact because it is scientifically
> proven impossible and there for the belief is not allowed.
Banning such things is not going to work. They should be trying to
convince you that you are wrong or ignoring you.
> Spiritual,
> RP, imagination are all viewed as one and the same under this new
> movement and all belief that one is a dragon or will become a
> dragon irl anywhere in any way whether it be roleplaying, spiritual,
> imagined, religious, etc. will not be tolerated.
That's just stupid. What is wrong with roleplaying and imagination?
Are you sure that's what they think?
> Not saying all of
> this necessarily because I agree with all of it or the intense
> persecution going on as a result of it but more so people know it is
> out there and fast growing in popularity on the net.
I haven't seen much of it about. Where do you find these people?
> I'll admit I don't agree with some of it, especially not agreeing with
> the persecution of all other beliefs thing. I'm not one for bringing
> down everyone who has a different view from this so called "proven
> scientific facts only" movement.
I often ignore peoples' beliefs that I don't believe unless they cause
trouble or are being presented as something actually testable.
Sometimes I investigate their beliefs though, by asking questions.
I seem to have a desire to investigate apparent contradictions.
> I realize there are alot of unknowns
> that cannot be proven scientifically yet that affect things.
Like what?
--
src/
Simon Richard Clarkstone
> On Oct 11, 6:50 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>> Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
>>> On Oct 4, 5:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
>>> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> Drak'rrth Ssekmith wrote:
>>>>> On Sep 28, 3:48 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
>>>>> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Yup. I also believe all you lot to be wrong, but I wouldn't hang out
>>>>>> here if I cared about that.
>>>>> Well, I believe the Christians, the Muslims, the Jews, the Taoists,
>>>>> the Buddhists, the Pagans, the Hindus, etc... to be wrong, but I don't
>>>>> go on about it, do I? It's a person's own beliefs, let them have it.
>>>> I admit I was a bit blunt about it. It was an attempt to talk about myself.
>>>> I was telling you, and other new people, because it is unusual for here,
>>>> and to prevent nasty surprises ;-).
>>> Well, okay. I don't know who else here is like that, but I just hope
>>> they have the sense to keep themselves in check.
>> Oh no, you can't keep me under control at all. :-P
>>
>> (Unless you offer me an abstraction layer that gets rid of crap I don't
>> like, in which case I'll take it.)
>
I said abstraction layer, not filter. I mean things like employers,
governments, etc. I *could* do these things myself, but I wouldn't like
it, it isn't what I'm good at, and someone else wants to do it anyway.
They hide the details I don't like and earn money for it.
--
src/
Drak'rrth Ssekmith
I'm not sure where you're going with this line of inquiry. We just
believe we are, we don't need it to mean anything, we can get offended
regardless of whether others know, and there are people who do seem to
think it makes a difference in our relationship with others.
> > and, as a few around here know, have believed it for at least 10
> > years. One thing I'd like it to filter out is this new huge science
> > crusade movement that appears to be quickly dominating alot of
> > forums, chat rooms, MUCKS, mailing lists, etc. It states there is a
> > set of laws
> > of science to be followed by everyone whereby noone can believe they
> > are or are going to be a dragon anywhere irl PERIOD! This is stated
> > under this new movement as absolute fact because it is scientifically
> > proven impossible and there for the belief is not allowed.
>
> Banning such things is not going to work. They should be trying to
> convince you that you are wrong or ignoring you.
Tell them that.
> > Spiritual,
> > RP, imagination are all viewed as one and the same under this new
> > movement and all belief that one is a dragon or will become a
> > dragon irl anywhere in any way whether it be roleplaying, spiritual,
> > imagined, religious, etc. will not be tolerated.
>
> That's just stupid. What is wrong with roleplaying and imagination?
> Are you sure that's what they think?
You'll be surprised at what extremists can get up to. I'm not
surprised, frankly, because I myself used to think it's all stupid. In
the end, it boils down to a lack of understanding and tolerance.
> > Not saying all of
> > this necessarily because I agree with all of it or the intense
> > persecution going on as a result of it but more so people know it is
> > out there and fast growing in popularity on the net.
>
> I haven't seen much of it about. Where do you find these people?
Go to any popular forum and even -hint- the topic and it's likely
there'll be a troll or an idiot who'll start blasting his views around
like that.
> > I'll admit I don't agree with some of it, especially not agreeing with
> > the persecution of all other beliefs thing. I'm not one for bringing
> > down everyone who has a different view from this so called "proven
> > scientific facts only" movement.
>
> I often ignore peoples' beliefs that I don't believe unless they cause
> trouble or are being presented as something actually testable.
> Sometimes I investigate their beliefs though, by asking questions.
>
> I seem to have a desire to investigate apparent contradictions.
The true mark of a belief is that it can stand up to all questions,
even if the answers have to be somewhat vague.
And you'll make a great skeptic.
> > I realize there are alot of unknowns
> > that cannot be proven scientifically yet that affect things.
>
> Like what?
I do believe that there is, someway or another, a way to prove
everything physical scientifically. The real mark of the unknown comes
from things like chance and the human mind - absolutely ungovernable
by physical laws. Like why do plants always have Fibonacci numbers in
them? Why does water have so many unique properties needed for life on
Earth? (Ask any believer in "intelligent design" and you'll receive a
lot of these kind of arguments. I just happen to believe in a
different cause than God.)
Anvil*
> I do believe that there is, someway or another, a way to prove
> everything physical scientifically. The real mark of the unknown comes
> from things like chance and the human mind - absolutely ungovernable
> by physical laws.
proven only that the model as developed is consistent with experience
begins discovery with imagination many things yet to receive their
model
ungovernable many things to physical laws but over time the laws adapt
tests fail / change / tried again, scientific understanding evolves
exists many who resist change, frozen in time their understanding
labeling oneself scientist or follower says nothing of handling change
believing the future full of things fantastic to now, not all are
ready
Simon Richard Clarkstone
Um, I think I agreed with that.
--
Simon Richard Clarkstone:
s.r.cl?rkst?n?@dunelm.org.uk / s?m?n_cl?rkst?n?@yahoo.co.uk
Simon Richard Clarkstone
> On Oct 22, 4:56 am, Simon Richard Clarkstone
> <s.r.clarkst...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>> Greylight S. wrote:
>>> I wouldn't mind a filter like that myself. I too believe I am a dragon
>> What does that actually mean? What external difference does it make
>> beyond what you believe? How would I tell if you hadn't told me?
>
> I'm not sure where you're going with this line of inquiry. We just
> believe we are, we don't need it to mean anything, we can get offended
> regardless of whether others know, and there are people who do seem to
> think it makes a difference in our relationship with others.
I was asking how to measure it or how to test it, how to tell if you are
right. Some otherkin claim things that one could test, but if you don't
claim that kind of thing then I won't worry about it.
[...]
>>> I'll admit I don't agree with some of it, especially not agreeing with
>>> the persecution of all other beliefs thing. I'm not one for bringing
>>> down everyone who has a different view from this so called "proven
>>> scientific facts only" movement.
>> I often ignore peoples' beliefs that I don't believe unless they cause
>> trouble or are being presented as something actually testable.
>> Sometimes I investigate their beliefs though, by asking questions.
>>
>> I seem to have a desire to investigate apparent contradictions.
>
> The true mark of a belief is that it can stand up to all questions,
> even if the answers have to be somewhat vague.
I don't think I can disagree there.
> And you'll make a great skeptic.
Not so certain about that.
>>> I realize there are alot of unknowns
>>> that cannot be proven scientifically yet that affect things.
>> Like what?
>
> I do believe that there is, someway or another, a way to prove
> everything physical scientifically. The real mark of the unknown comes
> from things like chance and the human mind - absolutely ungovernable
> by physical laws.
I'd have to disagree with that one.
> Like why do plants always have Fibonacci numbers in
> them?
Because it is (genetically) not too hard to make this happen by tweaking
the replication behaviour of plant cells, and because it distributes
things in very good distribution.
> Why does water have so many unique properties needed for life on
> Earth? (Ask any believer in "intelligent design" and you'll receive a
> lot of these kind of arguments. I just happen to believe in a
> different cause than God.)
Ok.
--
Simon Richard Clarkstone:
s.r.cl?rkst?n?@dunelm.org.uk / s?m?n_cl?rkst?n?@yahoo.co.uk