Koalataur IV: undergrad rage
Tolstrup
> Unfortunately, the only way to deal this kind of mistake is to treat it
> like the two genesis stories in the Bible -- pick one or none and move on.
the Bible isn't canonical either? Evidently Nuelow chose neither, even
though the obvious choice is DoSD.
> <Game material canonity doesn't matter as much to novel readers.>
> >and a character somehow feels more real when it's uncertain which of
> >their first-person experiences is true?
> That's true to life -- look at all the different Bill Clinton stories there
> are.
how are we meant to feel emotionally attached to somebody whose in-world
existence is doubtful?
> <W&H have actually been contradicting themselves.>
> Short of running them through Morten's inconsistency fixer, not much
> is going to change there, either.
know any good hardware shops around LAX?
> <There's *got* to be a reason for blowing up Melbourne>
> Nuke it from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure.
nuke it from ground level, so you won't miss and look like a dickhead
> <Spelljammer can be interpreted to explain Krynnish cosmology>
>
> >Spelljammer simply modified without substantially changing the
> 'multiple prime material' approach.
> It assumes that AO and the High God are equal. Suppose there is
> such a thing as a lord of the multiverse?
then it'd be that thing Ao reported to after Midnight had finished
blowing up gods. The Spelljammer mythos includes a single sphere
exploding and giving birth to the rest of the Prime Material.
> >> <Getting armed back up for a dental appointment>
> Tempting, but I think I'll save the armed back up for my taxman.
You get discounts for multiple jobs, say five for the price of four.
> <Sean's been getting someone stoned again.>
> A small idyllic cop town. Sean's in Mayberry? So that's why Don
> Knotts is so twitchy.
they caught the perp. That of course is the town where the nukes will
be discovered. If Sean survives a year (game time) who knows what he
might get up to? He was recently magically compelled to spill the beans
on his rather complicated life to the hotblooded werewolves he hangs out
with. It is actually possible to magically screw with tv.
> <The British monarchy does serve a purpose>
> What checks and balances can a powerless royal family preserve?
the Queen hires/fires the Governor-General. In reality, it's the PM's
call, but it's a possible emergency brake. The Queen would be neckdeep
in shit if she used that power on a G-G who wasn't acting like Lincoln
or Nixon. Without the monarch, it would be uncertain how executive
power is constructed. The system they're recommending may make it
impossible for the 'President' (new title, although we've already got
one in the Senate) to sack the government, a vital check.
> >> <Sean's a Lyme carrying drug dealer with diseased friends>
> >can I interest you in some of this wonderful powder?
>
> Only if it's vanilla and is used to make shakes.
I can cut it with vanilla
> <Telemarketers extract vengeance through spam>
> But I pity those who have to phone prospects, especially if they call me.
email's a wonderful invention. So anonymous.
> <Sean and Chelsea Clinton have never been together>
>
> You said he spoke to a goddess -- he must have gone straight to Hill then.
Gaia. She's the one who named him "Stalks in the Shadows," and is
apparently a very weakened Highgod entity. He's evidently meant to do
something important. Or get amusingly killed.
> >> >> <Rohan's geriatric obsession gets the better of him>
> <Rohan obsesses in the opposite direction>
> Going after the 60 year old kindergarten teacher now?
with a hatchet, first.
> <Rohan's whiskers: when you care enough to send the very best>
> I accept -- It will make a nice start to my collection.
I will of course shoot any man coming down the driveway
> <Rohan owns 10% of the Acme Terrorist supply store>
> Not a wise investment -- you consume too much of your own inventory.
I'm the V-P for Marketing. I do a lot of advertising.
> <90s boy scouts earn stalking badges>
> 90s girl scouts earn castration badges
castration gets taught at high school. Stalking's not gender-based
anyway
> <Laura Majere can't be salacious and healthy at the same time>
> Laura inherited Kit's +5 Ring of Protection against STDs.
you mean her *Lazarus' Deluxe Clones* Gold Card? Kit probably should've
died of syphillis/childbirth several times.
> <Tandar Part 2: The Dez and Bertrem story>
> >Bertrem was capable of seeing? Maybe she wiped his arse.
>
> Come now, blindness didn't stop Crysania.
people in their fifties are generally able to wipe themselves. Bertrem
is about a hundred and should be incapable of leaving the library.
> <Hank VIII kept his first wife alive to keep Spain happy>
> >of course, if it can convincingly look like an accident, then the
> >Spazzos would've looked like hotheaded idiots to third parties.
>
> While Hank was busy with Spain, the French would have blindsided him.
seen the Infanta episode of Blackadder?
> <Queen Liz would have ordered a Walter Raleigh type to kill for her>
> >I'm personally descended from the man.
>
> <forms a mental picture> Rohan Tolstrup, man in tights.
I tend to dress loosely. Not a surprise my family introduced tobacco.
> >I'd be inclined to send assassins or get the victim drunk on a
> sinking boat.
> Nero tried to do that to his mother and she swam back to shore.
yes, but she was a cockroach
<Caligula>
> >his minders invented jelly babies
>
> The cherry flavored ones, at any rate.
they didn't have many food colorings back then
> <Can Rohan destroy Renton by oozing himself into pores?>
>
> >I'm not that venomous. And it's disgusting to have water that high,
> >apart from being a colossal waste.
>
> It's not as if anything's going to float back up and bite you.
let's think in terms of substance properties and proximities. Seeing
such ridiculous levels in LAX (comparable climate iirc)... we try to
avoid drinking recycled waste water
> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like kender>
> >
> >try when they're in battledress and packing Weapons By Sig (just about
> >the best guns around)
>
> Battle dress doesn't sound anywhere near as cute. And the traditional
> dress would only scare Steve Urkel.
say that when a hundred of them are charging
> >> >> <Spike: Closet Collie, as told to MZ Bradley>
> >he's too young to remember Lassie
> In any event MZ Bradley passed away, so the book deal's off.
Sword was in E. Timor, using a grenade launcher as an overgrown rifle
and beating a prisoner.
> ><music and shotguns>
> >could you hold still? The apple keeps moving.
>
> It's coming right at you now.
thanks for the excuse
> <What the heck would Kit do with a VW?>
> Smelt it and make counterfeit currency.
the big picture eludes her, but she's still a good strategist
> >What'd she do with the micro-uzi under the seat?
>
> Unpleasant things that are best left unsaid.
Kit would find the barrel unsuited to her needs, and the thing's got
some nasty corners
> <Rohan still hasn't read Heroes and Fools>
> >and you're on what?
>
> A chair, typing.
never would've guessed
> >> >> <Dalamar, the ultimate bath toy>
> <The blood would ooze through the bandages eventually>
>
> Just how long do you think he'd be in there?
how long would an elf lie in his own filth?
> >> <Check all guns in at the door to the bathroom>
<guardian?>
> >remember, even the master of the tower can't get in... and you only need
> >to use a few muscles.
>
> But you didn't explain how you got the gun past him to begin with.
I bribed him
> <would I believe Rohan's sensitive?>
> >> Yes (after the eucalyptus haze clears, that is).
> >
> >that's nice. Want to hear my angst-filled poetry about torturing small
> >animals at syringepoint while neck-deep in Fanta?
>
> Must have been written during eucalyptus withdrawal.
caffeine. Doesn't work anyway. Columbian Cola failed to keep me awake
Sunday night, and NoDoz ain't helping either.
> >> <Money can make saints of us all.>
> <Cross-examination can last forever>
>
> That works both ways. The lawyer has to listen all day as well.
autopilot is the norm. Just keep rephrasing the same question until
they try to strangle you. Can do shifts.
> >> <ID4 example of sexism in the army>
> >> I missed that line -- when does the President say it?
> >
> >'Gentlemen, let's pave the road.' As a politician, logically he
> >wouldn't have said that if any women were flying.
>
> It could have been a slip. The world was about to end.
how did he get elected? If there had been a woman behind him he
would've eaten 30mm.
> > where were all the F15s and 16s which the Air Farce actually uses,
> and has in much greater quantity?
>
> Probably blown up in Arizona. The F15s and 16s are massed near Tucson.
simply not as many around. Dreamland is after all an AFB.
> >a lot more damage was done than killing Janet Reno would've accomplished
>
> It certainly did not improve the separatist movement's image in America.
of course, the media is run by the oppressors anyway. Still trying to
figure out Bulworth - a Fox release.
> >> >> <the Sally Field school of law enforcement>
> I'll take a reform oriented movie over a housewife gets away with
> improbable justifiable homicide any day.
works for me
> >> <Mr. Tolstrup Sr gets the dirty part of caring for Bunsen>
>
> >well, he's an overachieving extrovert with a hefty shadow
>
> So the stuff about poop being lucky is true.
he made his pile before acquiring said dog
<Satan owns me>
> >want to start counting loopholes? Remember, you and Cassii are both up
> >for a cut.
>
> We're thinking about putting our shares up on eBay to test the waters.
I'm currently an unknown quantity
> <Crysania would've wanted to personally oversee any Measure rewrite if
> she were asked to participate because the KoS are biggies in the Church>
> >or T$R wasn't especially worried about reality? With countless Gakhans
> >it wouldn't be humans running the dragonarmies.
>
> Gakhan is a figurative example representing a certain profession.
smart dracs?
> >> Depends on your point of view.
> >
> >....yours being of the business end of a precision-crafted Steyr GB
>
> But you'll miss. Those are the rules.
I just rewrote 'em
> <Gunthar took steps to change recruitment policies after the gods left>
> >
> >but we've established he's a simulacrum as the real Gunthar died age
> >sixty like everybody else.
>
> Why go to so much trouble? He can come back from the dead like
> everyone else.
they're illusions and the Greygem was really full of crack
> <Only economic duress caused the elves to react, as per the Puppet King>
> >
> >so soon after the WotL? And remember, there were a lot of job vacancies
> >in the Senate and a fair few younger elves.
>
> Again, in the Puppet King, the younger generation was effectively ignored.
the same book where a four year-old is acting sixteen?
> <The Measure is needed to define consensus>
>
> >> but even in Chronicles the Measure had wiggle room.
> >it'd become a legal document rather than a living code
>
> The Oath is the living piece of it, because it is so subjective.
presumably rules *were* needed, but to be interpreted in light of the
Oath. Sounds like it just got too complex.
> <LoS would hire Valian because they started as unhappy KoT>
> >
> >but would the elves deal with them if Valian's involvement was known?
>
> No, but I don't see the elves dealing much with the LoS to begin with.
there goes their mission statement. I'd be inclined to have people like
him in 'bandit gangs' that are actually part of a covert KoS order. The
CIA can get away with denying involvement in the drug trade.
> >The disaffected KoT should've just joined the KoS.
> Agreed, since they are virtually identical.
and the LoS is virtually identical to the KoS...
> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
> >> What do you call trade embargos? Closing down a consulate?
> >
> >over cognac and cigars you quietly point out that you could do so if
> >they don't see your point of view. Public yelling forces them into
> >damage control mode. Think of the Carter admin.
> Cigars work if a dispute is being mediated. The elves telling the KoS to
> clean up their Measure would be similar to US efforts in the Middle East.
> Which are still producing zero results.
the issues are too sensitive for mass involvement
> >> Okay, which story in 2nd Gen. says Laurana handled the human
> >> side of the treaty negotiations exclusively?
> >2nd Gen is a poorly conceived piece o' shit book.
> In other words, nowhere explicitly.
besides, I figured Lozza talked to both sides, being a blood relative of
the elven leaders and a longtime friend of the humans. Tanis doesn't
quite have the profile, and 2nd Gen clearly said they worked together.
> <Rohan wants to see me do a rope trick>
> >get a stepladder, throw the rope over a beam...
> What's your tie size again?
don't wear a tie. Dumbest fashion idea since shorts + long sleeves.
> <Rambo's a US propaganda posterboy>
> Even Superman fought for truth, justice, and the American way.
...which has nothing to do with truth and justice. Supes isn't a good
example, being a totally boring character. You can't be serious about a
character a step removed from Nazism who makes an irrevocable
committment *before* sleeping with her. Sword is a normal man who
doesn't hesitate to kill, screws a prostitute and has a vendetta.
> >> >> <DL may be re-oriented to Pokemon pre-teen fans>
> >> They're not here yet -- it's the *next* generation.
> >
> >excuse me while I invest in family planning, contraception and
> >accessible abortion clinics.
>
> Sir Walter Raleigh's line ends here. Oh well, he must have had cousins.
you're assuming I'd train children of mine to be T$R customers
> >> One small step for TSR, one giant leap for WoTC.
> >
> >one four-pound squeeze for me
>
> Eliminating editors does not improve continuity.
and putting them in helped so much. A company that has senior people
simultaneously admitting and denying serious ongoing problems...
> >> <Twenty one gun salute for Morten's arrival in Oz>
> ><chunder>
>
> Don't be nervous. He's probably the same sweet guy that you read
> about on AFDL.
excuse me while I sharpen my pitchfork
> <Simon's not the only one she worries about>
> >muhahahahahaha. Maybe I should intro you to my high school teachers and
> >social workers.
>
> What more can they tell me that I haven't already read?
you keep saying this forum is read by children...
> >> <an anti-missile gatling system is faster than Speedy Gonzalez>
> Speedy is safe if Wiley Coyote is at the controls.
I conned him into selling me his stock
> >> >> >> ><Sword, voluntarily unemployed>
> >he's also wise to that trick
>
> But he's not expecting it, since the briefcase originally was yours.
he doesn't trust *himself*
> <How will you kill a munchkin rat?>
>
> I'll tell you over the whisker bonfire.
Sean is most certainly not a munchkin. You should see the literal
combat monsters he's saddled with. Whisker *bonfire*?
> >> >> >> ><full and curvy tail>
> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
> No, your Mom and I discuss all the great reasons it'd be nice to go there.
ice-skating? Building igloos? Beer?
> >> >> >> >> >> ><Altie turns the tables on Kong>
> >> Maybe of old age, but that's far in the future.
> >
> >that's what you think. <schlinng>
>
> You just wounded my postman. That's a federal offense.
might as well be hung for a sheep as a goat then
> >> <Rohan's mom will make him mind his manners>
> >> >mother, please shut up
> >>
> >> Your dad will never let that slide.
> >
> >he's out of it by now
>
> That's the kind of thing that would get your Dad's undivided attention.
that's not very nice
> >> <Closet Koala in denial>
> >> >drugs are bad ummkay
> >> Not if eucalyptus is part of your natural diet.
> >are you aware they practice coprophagy?
> Don't make me look up words so late at night. It's mean.
well? Are you? What do you *think* coprophagy is?
> >you realise, timers are only good for events you can predict
>
> The mechanism is sensitive to acids and reacts to a change in
> digestive juices.
sounds like a plane over the Pacific is going down
> >> >> >> ><Taxi Driver date>
> >> I'll be watching on screen from my underground bunker.
> >
> >cool, shadows. Sean should drop by, because he can.
>
> The mouse house is waiting for him. So's Vee.
and he's waiting for Vee
> <Lucy Lawless as Bupu, Warrior Princess>
> >they used Jodie Foster last time...
> On second thought, if it's 5th age Bupu, it should be Rhea Perlman.
they routinely have actors in their 40s-50s play much younger
characters, so why not the other way around?
> ><yanks have no sense of time>
> >what the hell can I get him?
> The hip flask similar to the one you got sounds like a good idea.
he's already got one. And mine was a 21st, he'll be 19.
> >> >> <Assassination attempt on Drizzt Mickey and Wulfgar Duck>
> >> You'll have assassins out of Renton on your case then. Salvatore is
> >> a money machine.
> >
> >forty sounds like a good age to make it to
>
> That depends on how Spine of the World ends.
one of us is reading it down the phone, the other behind a scope? We
need a situation where 'obscure death' is impossible.
> >> >> >> <The Hunger>
> >I don't obey the Measure
>
> Resistance is futile.
isn't that a bit arrogant?
> >> <Concealed weapons>
> >> >try wrapping your fist around a Leatherman
> >>
> >> Unless my assailant is my size, blunt force is rarely to my advantage.
> >
> >beats hitting 'em bareknuckle
>
> Weapons is best when you're vertically challenged.
guns were a great idea
> ><what in the name of **** is the signal?>
> >> You'll miss the signal if you do that.
> >
> >maybe I'll just make my own
>
> Only you'll understand it then.
I'll act on a signal, yours or mine
> >> >> <Boss ordered staff to be gentlemen, or else>
> >> >show footage of the boss at toll booths
> >>
> >> Never thought of that. He would have probably done it, too.
> >
> >how many tries does it take to get the coin in?
>
> Many of my colleagues live in Jersey, so they're practiced at it. One
> flip usually does it.
de-trafficator
> >> >> <Current boss inspires fear and likes it>
> >> He wouldn't get past her doorman.
> >
> >no problem. If she's got shadows or a shiny thing (uncertain which)
> >physical barriers are irrelevant. And remember, he's a rat, complete
> >with a poison-drippin' dagger appropriate to his size.
>
> She might just hire him instead. I hear she's very annoyed at her Phoenix
> counterpart.
how old is she? I wouldn't want to send a Dex 16 rat with opposable
thumbs her way if she was much older than you
> >admittedly Bunsen was the last to bite me...
> Spike has seniority. How fickle.
Spike contracts out his biting. Also I recently shot another cat off
him at about 10pm.
> >we've trained him out of that. I'd probably better walk him as I
> >haven't all week...
>
> Of course you have. That's why he only nibbles now.
been walked. Been walking myself. Me an Army officer?
> <Essays should not be open book tests>
>
> I liked essays on the spot. It's a better way to prove you know something
> than rote recitation.
how many people can write decent essays under exam conditions?
> >Bunsen doesn't know how to drive (Spike gets a couple of other cats -
> >one handles the pedals, the other the brake, lever and radio)
>
> Bunsen and Spike are Australia's answer to Thelma and Louise. They're
> in it together.
now there's an idea. Flashback to a recent episode of Daria.
> Good luck this weekend and have fun.
signed up/paid for eight games, got five. All pretty good though.
Arcadian Chronicles - played a middle-eastern fairy, became a Queen
after we killed Morgan la Fey and some kid called Galahad. Messenger -
Home Brand cornflakes-eating cop investigating a series of really gross
murders while looking for a friend's daughter. Evil Dead 4 -
stereotyped pyromaniac pervert wizard who tried to snap the Hero out of
a false reality by demonstrating his girlfriend didn't have the porno
figure all real women had. Wrath of the Dragon - Chow Yun Fat.
Repeatedly had intercourse with another player, which he initiated. We
drove off into the sunset Bladerunner-style. Er, he was playing a woman
who looked like Anne Parillaud. Mallrats 2020 - Johnny Silverhand and
my girl have just been kidnapped. Featuring a pc treating Point-Defence
miniguns as a videogame and a climactic supermarket shootout. I was
playing a former QB packing a .45 with 8 bullets and no skill.
Unicon's one reason I took so long, another is my bloody American
Politics essay (comparing powers of President and Aussie PM) which was
due yesterday and I might be able to hand in two days late. I figure
eight hundred words of ranting about how the Prez is only held in check
by political considerations (including what happens when they're
outgoing and don't need to please anybody), plus 200-500 words of
conclusion. Are you aware that when Reagan bombed Gadaffi, a move with
great potential to strain NATO (a UK offensive base was used), and
against the spirit of an Executive Order, possibly boozed-up
congressional leaders were given forty minutes to object unanimously?
Time to go and watch one of the most unrealistic Aussie cop shows ever.
Rohan "you ain't seen NOTHING" Tolstrup
Krynnish pressure groups:
Solamnic knights, Conclave And Taladas
Associated Independent Dark knight Society
Solace Non-profit Organisation of Benevolent And Loving Liberals
Greater union Of Lemish Duchies Embracing Non-human Forestry Labourers
On Woodchipping operations
Palanthas Over-28 Outgoing Non-discriminatory Travel And Needlepoint
Group
Solamnic Command: Unincorporated Militia
Palanthan Lovers of Ergothic Beers
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Like DL, the Bible has "pick a path" continuity issues>
>
>the Bible isn't canonical either? Evidently Nuelow chose neither, even
>though the obvious choice is DoSD.
Steve's just being ecumenical like the authors of Genesis.
>
>how are we meant to feel emotionally attached to somebody whose in-world
>existence is doubtful?
It'd have to be a very peripheral character to have his in-world existence
doubted. Raistlin fans get mad at editing gaffs that change his hair color,
but don't give up on the character itself.
>
<Inter-author gaffes may be fodder for the inconsistency fixer>
>know any good hardware shops around LAX?
On Melrose Ave, I'd say. Are you invading Los Angeles, Koalataur?
>
>> <There's *got* to be a reason for blowing up Melbourne>
>nuke it from ground level, so you won't miss and look like a dickhead
Ground level strikes are easily rebuffed.
>
<Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
>
>then it'd be that thing Ao reported to after Midnight had finished
>blowing up gods. The Spelljammer mythos includes a single sphere
>exploding and giving birth to the rest of the Prime Material.
So there is wiggle room for the High God to outrank AO. The single sphere
exploding reminds me of the way Eddings defined the universe as the
"Mother of the gods." There might even be room for a mother goddess.
>
>> >> <Getting armed back up for a dental appointment>
>You get discounts for multiple jobs, say five for the price of four.
I'd have to partnerl with someone. I can only target 3 people at most.
>
>> <Sean's been getting someone stoned again.>
<Sean was persuaded to blab with the werewolves>
Sean must never watch soap operas. Gossiping with the neighbors is
the kiss of death.
> It is actually possible to magically screw with tv.
That explains "Touched by an Angel" being on the air for so long.
>
>> <The British monarchy does serve a purpose>
>> What checks and balances can a powerless royal family preserve?
<The Queen can fire the Governor General, in theory>
>The system they're recommending may make it
>impossible for the 'President' (new title, although we've already got
>one in the Senate) to sack the government, a vital check.
Amazing. Sounds like the ancient Roman patrician republic.
>
<Rohan's offering me vanilla ice cream with white sprinkles>
I prefer crushed oreos in my ice cream, but thanks just the same.
>
>> <Telemarketers extract vengeance through spam>
>email's a wonderful invention. So anonymous.
To a point. The Feds can get anyone eventually.
>
<Sean has spoken to the goddess Gaia>
>He's evidently meant to do something important. Or get amusingly killed.
You're making Gaia sound like Lloth. Salvatore's gotten to you.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan's geriatric obsession gets the better of him>
>> Going after the 60 year old kindergarten teacher now?
>with a hatchet, first.
There must be at least one teacher that you remember positively.
>
>> <Rohan's whiskers: when you care enough to send the very best>
>> I accept -- It will make a nice start to my collection.
>
>I will of course shoot any man coming down the driveway
Makes it easier to gather the whiskers. Can I borrow Simon's crocodile
skinner?
>
>> <Rohan, VP for Marketing, owns 10% of the Acme Terrorist supply store>
And get paid in kind, I suppose.
>
>> <90s boy scouts earn stalking badges>
>> 90s girl scouts earn castration badges
>
>castration gets taught at high school.
True. We practice on labradors.
>Stalking's not gender-based anyway
That's a rather dangerous one to turn into a co-ed merit badge.
>
>> Laura inherited Kit's +5 Ring of Protection against STDs.
>
>you mean her *Lazarus' Deluxe Clones* Gold Card? Kit probably should've
>died of syphillis/childbirth several times.
After Steel, Kit could have probably used herblore to avoid another pregnancy.
Why she didn't die of an STD before she joined the dragonarmy is a mystery
>
>> <Tandar Part 2: The Dez and Bertrem story>
>> Come now, blindness didn't stop Crysania.
>
>people in their fifties are generally able to wipe themselves. Bertrem
>is about a hundred and should be incapable of leaving the library.
<laughs> Bertrem could have gotten one last blessing from Gilean\
Astinus -- the ability to remain spry enough to maintain the library, among
other things. Or he could be Gilean's dirty old avatar.
>
>> <Hank VIII kept his first wife alive to keep Spain happy>
>seen the Infanta episode of Blackadder?
Haven't ever seen Blackadder. What is it?
>
<Imagining Rohan dressed like great great great grandpa Raleigh.>
>>
>> <forms a mental picture> Rohan Tolstrup, man in tights.
>
>I tend to dress loosely. Not a surprise my family introduced tobacco.
Never smoked. I grew up surprisingly free of peer pressure.
>
<Nero tried to drown his mom via a faked shipwreck but she made it>
>
>yes, but she was a cockroach
She was an armor plated one then. Cockroaches can easily be squished.
>
><Caligula>
>> >his minders invented cherry flavored jelly babies
>they didn't have many food colorings back then
Cherry's natural, like vanilla. They could have improvised.
>
<Poop should not float so close to the surface in toilets>
>
>let's think in terms of substance properties and proximities. Seeing
>such ridiculous levels in LAX (comparable climate iirc)... we try to
>avoid drinking recycled waste water
Not all toilets flush alike. Our beloved mayor offered to install water
conserving commodes for free, and I took him up on it. Besides,
whether it's a smidgeon or a gallon in the bowl, a water filter is always
prudent.
>
>> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like kender>
>say that when a hundred of them are charging
Not a fair example -- a hundred of anything, even ants, is scary.
>
>> >> >> <Spike: Closet Collie, as told to MZ Bradley>
>Sword was in E. Timor, using a grenade launcher as an overgrown rifle
>and beating a prisoner.
Salvatore might be a good one to get Sword's story into print. Drizzt can
use a new buddy by now, with Wulfgar being a mess.
>
<Catch! --oops, I hope it didn't hurt too much.
>
>thanks for the excuse
Anything for you dear. But you never do stand on ceremony anyway.
>
>> <What the heck would Kit do with a VW?>
>> Smelt it and make counterfeit currency.
>
>the big picture eludes her, but she's still a good strategist
What's the big picture? Kit can't drive it through those "secret" trails on
Krynn that everyone seems to know about. And filling it with explosives
to trap curious kender or gnomes won't help her much either.
>
>> >What'd she do with the micro-uzi under the seat?
<It's agreed that the unpleasant things she'd try to do would hurt a lot.>
>> >> >> <Dalamar, the ultimate bath toy>
>> <The blood would ooze through the bandages eventually>
>>
>> Just how long do you think he'd be in there?
>
>how long would an elf lie in his own filth?
The things ooze, they don't gush. And the shower over the tub means
Dalamar's not wallowing in the stuff.
>
>> >> <Check all guns in at the door to the bathroom>
><guardian?>
>> But you didn't explain how you got the gun past him to begin with.
>
>I bribed him
It's not like he'll take money. There is no way he'd ignore munching on
you with a Bunsen-like singlemindedness.
>
>> <would I believe Rohan's sensitive?>
<sort of>
<angst ridden poetry description>
>> Must have been written during eucalyptus withdrawal.
>
>caffeine. Doesn't work anyway. Columbian Cola failed to keep me awake
>Sunday night, and NoDoz ain't helping either.
You're already accustomed to caffeine. The only things that can keep me
awake are certain antihistamines, a big problem, or post nightmare jitters.
>> <Cross-examination can last forever>
>autopilot is the norm. Just keep rephrasing the same question until
>they try to strangle you. Can do shifts.
The judge does jump in eventually. And if it's the defendant on the stand
here in the States, you can just plead the Fifth ad nauseaum.
>
>> >> <ID4 example of sexism in the army>
>> It could have been a slip. The world was about to end.
>
>how did he get elected? If there had been a woman behind him he
>would've eaten 30mm.
Come to think of it, the best jobs they could come up with for the female
leads were stripping and public relations. You may be onto something there.
>
<Where were all the F15s and 16s? In Tucson?>
>simply not as many around. Dreamland is after all an AFB.
Is Dreamland Area 51? That's a rather desolate military installation, unlike
the other AFBs, where you can see the aircraft lined up for miles. I don't
think it functions quite the same way as the others.
>
>of course, the media is run by the oppressors anyway. Still trying to
>figure out Bulworth - a Fox release.
Warren Beatty is a moron. I cannot believe that he has swallowed so
much of that Bulworth script that he believes he should become President.
>
>> >> <Mr. Tolstrup Sr gets the dirty part of caring for Bunsen>
>he made his pile before acquiring said dog
So now Bunsen's the one making the piles. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
>
><Satan owns me>
<Profit potential in auctioning off a Koalataur>
>I'm currently an unknown quantity
You really do underrate yourself. I think we might even get a bid from
Shalafi.
>
>> >or T$R wasn't especially worried about reality? With countless Gakhans
>> >it wouldn't be humans running the dragonarmies.
>>
>> Gakhan is a figurative example representing a certain profession.
>
>smart dracs?
Some are. Gakhan definitely was and Slith is corporate VP material.
<Shooting Altie's against the rules>
>I just rewrote 'em
I think I'm protected under the endangered goddess act. Right after the
Queen's corgis.
>
>> <Gunthar took steps to change recruitment policies after the gods left>
<That was an imposter, Gunthar should have been dust by then>
>> Why go to so much trouble? He can come back from the dead like
>> everyone else.
>
>they're illusions and the Greygem was really full of crack
And Chaos was George Bush jr. With Reorx being the father of the
gnomes, I would think he'd fill the Graygem with something less organic
and more creative, like LSD. It'd explain the hallucinations and Chaos'
temper at any rate.
>
<There were job vacancies in the elven Senate, but the Puppet King
portrayed younger Senators as a forgotten generation>
>the same book where a four year-old is acting sixteen?
Not the best reference, to be sure, but the only one we've got.
Especially since Lizz announced the end of the BoT series.
>
>> <The Measure is needed to define consensus>
>> The Oath is the living piece of it, because it is so subjective.
>
>presumably rules *were* needed, but to be interpreted in light of the
>Oath. Sounds like it just got too complex.
Like the right to die issue here. On the face of it, it seems like a pure
conscience issue. But since it provides a good cover for unscrupulous
folks who want to get rid of inconvenient dependents, it's something that
has to be legislated.
>
<The elves probably wouldn't deal with the LoS if Valian joined. But
they might not deal with the LoS regardless>
>
>there goes their mission statement. I'd be inclined to have people like
>him in 'bandit gangs' that are actually part of a covert KoS order. The
>CIA can get away with denying involvement in the drug trade.
The LoS certainly would not have the moral issues that Linsha
Majere has with working undercover in Sanction. And it would be
more believable to have "rogue" LoS at odds with the KoS over
ambiguous "ends justify the means" types of decisions.
>
>> >The disaffected KoT should've just joined the KoS.
>> Agreed, since they are virtually identical.
>
>and the LoS is virtually identical to the KoS...
The LoS really is like the Mad Baron's army in BiA. Trendy honorable
types with no ancestral plate mail to call their own.
>
>> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
>the issues are too sensitive for mass involvement
The preliminary discussions might happen under closed doors. But
if the elves push Gunthar, and he says no, it all comes out into the
public forum.
>
>besides, I figured Lozza talked to both sides, being a blood relative of
>the elven leaders and a longtime friend of the humans. Tanis doesn't
>quite have the profile, and 2nd Gen clearly said they worked together.
Tanis doesn't have it with elves, certainly. But he did have it with the
Knights, especially after leading them during Kit's attack on Palanthas.
We're basically agreeing on Tanis and Laurana's roles; we're just at
odds over the division of duties.
>
>> <Rohan wants to see me do a rope trick>
>> >get a stepladder, throw the rope over a beam...
>> What's your tie size again?
>
>don't wear a tie. Dumbest fashion idea since shorts + long sleeves.
I can never think of a logical reason why anyone should wear shorts and
long sleeves, since it defeats the purpose of staying cool. But how do
you get by when you have to wear a suit if you don't have a tie?
>
>> <Rambo's a US propaganda posterboy>
>> Even Superman fought for truth, justice, and the American way.
<Superman's a Nazi??>
Superman and Lois are like a fireman and his wife. The guy makes a
committment to risk his life at a moment's notice, and his wife marries
him accepting that she's got to come second to that.
>Sword is a normal man who doesn't hesitate to kill, screws a prostitute
and has a vendetta.
Sword's just doing what comes naturally for him, just like Clark is.
>
>> >> >> <DL may be re-oriented to Pokemon pre-teen fans>
>> >> They're not here yet -- it's the *next* generation.
>> >
>> >excuse me while I invest in family planning, contraception and
>> >accessible abortion clinics.
>>
>> Sir Walter Raleigh's line ends here. Oh well, he must have had cousins.
>
>you're assuming I'd train children of mine to be T$R customers
You never know. Your son might be rebellious and clandestinely read the
"Emperor of Ansalon." He might even go to work for WotC and repeatedly
resurrect Flint Fireforge.
>
<Eliminating editors does not improve continuity.>
>
>and putting them in helped so much. A company that has senior people
>simultaneously admitting and denying serious ongoing problems...
Now that big brother Hasbro is watching, it will may be increasingly harder
to let things slide, if there is a perceived erosion of the economic base.
But fans will buy anything these days.
>
<Morten live is just as nice as Morten in print>
>
>excuse me while I sharpen my pitchfork
You're going to have him move bales of hay? That's not very hospitable.
>
<What more can Rohan's teachers tell me that I haven't already read?>
>
>you keep saying this forum is read by children...
That hasn't stopped you yet.
>
>> >> <an anti-missile gatling system is faster than Speedy Gonzalez>
>> Speedy is safe if Wiley Coyote is at the controls.
>
>I conned him into selling me his stock
But Wiley will offer to show you how it works first, and that's all the time
that Speedy needs.
>
>> >> >> >> ><Sword, voluntarily unemployed>
>> >he's also wise to that trick
>>
>> But he's not expecting it, since the briefcase originally was yours.
>
>he doesn't trust *himself*
It can be left in the vicinity then, and a stooge can set it off.
>
>> <How will you kill a munchkin rat?>
>>
>> I'll tell you over the whisker bonfire.
>
>Sean is most certainly not a munchkin. You should see the literal
>combat monsters he's saddled with. Whisker *bonfire*?
It's where Sean's whiskers are sacrificed as a burnt offering.
>
>> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
>> No, your Mom and I discuss all the great reasons it'd be nice to go there.
>
>ice-skating? Building igloos? Beer?
Cruising under the midnight sun. Beautiful vistas.
>
>> >that's what you think. <schlinng>
>>
>> You just wounded my postman. That's a federal offense.
>
>might as well be hung for a sheep as a goat then
We've gone from Undergrad Rage to Death Wish Part II.
>
>> >> <Rohan's mom will make him mind his manners>
<Rohan shushes his mom>
>>
>> That's the kind of thing that would get your Dad's undivided attention.
>
>that's not very nice
Dads are particular about kids shushing their moms.
>
>> >> <Closet Koala in denial>
>> >> >drugs are bad ummkay
>> >> Not if eucalyptus is part of your natural diet.
>> >are you aware they practice coprophagy?
>> Don't make me look up words so late at night. It's mean.
>
>well? Are you? What do you *think* coprophagy is?
Koalas only eat their poop when under the influence.
>
>> >you realise, timers are only good for events you can predict
>>
>> The mechanism is sensitive to acids and reacts to a change in
>> digestive juices.
>
>sounds like a plane over the Pacific is going down
The sivaks are back?
>
>> >> >> >> ><Taxi Driver date>
>> >> I'll be watching on screen from my underground bunker.
>> >
>> >cool, shadows. Sean should drop by, because he can.
>>
>> The mouse house is waiting for him. So's Vee.
>
>and he's waiting for Vee
Should be quite the reunion.
>
>> <Lucy Lawless as Bupu, Warrior Princess>
>> >they used Jodie Foster last time...
>> On second thought, if it's 5th age Bupu, it should be Rhea Perlman.
>
>they routinely have actors in their 40s-50s play much younger
>characters, so why not the other way around?
Actually, if Jodie used the same enunciation for Bupu that she did in
Nell, it could work.
>> >> >> <Assassination attempt on Drizzt Mickey and Wulfgar Duck>
>> >> You'll have assassins out of Renton on your case then. Salvatore is
>> >> a money machine.
>> >
>> >forty sounds like a good age to make it to
>>
>> That depends on how Spine of the World ends.
>
>one of us is reading it down the phone, the other behind a scope? We
>need a situation where 'obscure death' is impossible.
Unobscure death can be traced back to the assassin.
>
>> >> >> >> <The Hunger>
>> >I don't obey the Measure
>>
>> Resistance is futile.
>
>isn't that a bit arrogant?
Sounds great when pronounced in a monotone though.
>
>> ><what in the name of **** is the signal?>
>> >> You'll miss the signal if you do that.
>> >
>> >maybe I'll just make my own
>>
>> Only you'll understand it then.
>
>I'll act on a signal, yours or mine
It can get very confusing if the signals get crossed.
>
>> >> >> <Current boss inspires fear and likes it>
<My boss might have a job for Sean down in Phoenix>
>
>how old is she? I wouldn't want to send a Dex 16 rat with opposable
>thumbs her way if she was much older than you
On the order of 15 years older, I'd say, but we're physically the same size.
>
>Spike contracts out his biting. Also I recently shot another cat off
>him at about 10pm.
Poor kitty. I guess not everyone obeys the law about cats staying in
at night.
>
>been walked. Been walking myself. Me an Army officer?
Army officer? Not that the uniform wouldn't suit you. But you'd
fight for a government you're not happy with?
>
>> <Essays should not be open book tests>
>
>how many people can write decent essays under exam conditions?
Depends on the topic and how much you like it, I'd wager. I did some of
my best work under test pressure for my English Lit and Ancient History
professors.
>
>> Bunsen and Spike are Australia's answer to Thelma and Louise. They're
>> in it together.
>
>now there's an idea. Flashback to a recent episode of Daria.
It'll keep other cats from climbing on Spike at any rate.
>
>> Good luck this weekend and have fun.
>
<Rohan did have fun, and even got, umm, lucky>
Very creative. It did sound like a blast. I never let go with my roleplaying
imagination in the same way though. I had only one really good DM, the
others were so-so, so the really off the wall stuff only manifested itself in
my writing.
>
<Rohan's homework sounds interesting, even though he feels it's baggage
right about now.>
I guess you must be swamped by all the midterm stuff by now. But the
Aussie PM / US President comparison is a good one to write, especially
with the mechanics of Aussie government changing so much right now.
> Are you aware that when Reagan bombed Gadaffi, a move with
>great potential to strain NATO (a UK offensive base was used), and
>against the spirit of an Executive Order, possibly boozed-up
>congressional leaders were given forty minutes to object unanimously?
Best way to diffuse opposition when you're a popular President going against
a politically expedient target. Clinton has not been able to use the same
tactic with villian of the moment Hussein because of his bad press and the
fact that he gives the Senate too much time to think.
>Time to go and watch one of the most unrealistic Aussie cop shows ever.
Sounds like a well deserved rest.
Altarielle
__________________________________________________________________
"I am Woman, hear me roar." -- Helen Reddy
"Speak softly and carry a big cudgel" -- St. Cuthbert
Tolstrup
it is his place to adhere to canon, not to rewrite it
> >how are we meant to feel emotionally attached to somebody whose in-world
> >existence is doubtful?
>
> It'd have to be a very peripheral character to have his in-world existence
> doubted. Raistlin fans get mad at editing gaffs that change his hair color,
> but don't give up on the character itself.
a character seems less real if you can't believe the book is 1st person.
The Holy Six actually felt like being inside their heads, and Legends
only works as first person. Soulforge was ruined by being unbelievable
as Raistlin's actual experiences.
> <Inter-author gaffes may be fodder for the inconsistency fixer>
> >know any good hardware shops around LAX?
>
> On Melrose Ave, I'd say. Are you invading Los Angeles, Koalataur?
it's my port of entry
> >> <There's *got* to be a reason for blowing up Melbourne>
> >nuke it from ground level, so you won't miss and look like a dickhead
>
> Ground level strikes are easily rebuffed.
that's what you think
> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
> >
> >then it'd be that thing Ao reported to after Midnight had finished
> >blowing up gods. The Spelljammer mythos includes a single sphere
> >exploding and giving birth to the rest of the Prime Material.
>
> So there is wiggle room for the High God to outrank AO. The single sphere
> exploding reminds me of the way Eddings defined the universe as the
> "Mother of the gods." There might even be room for a mother goddess.
highgod always came across as a parallel entity to Ao. Certainly it
makes sense to have an 'overgod' for every sphere
> >> >> <Getting armed back up for a dental appointment>
> >You get discounts for multiple jobs, say five for the price of four.
>
> I'd have to partnerl with someone. I can only target 3 people at most.
3 for the price of 2 as an introductory offer
> >> <Sean's been getting someone stoned again.>
> <Sean was persuaded to blab with the werewolves>
> Sean must never watch soap operas. Gossiping with the neighbors is
> the kiss of death.
he was actually mentally compelled to spill his guts. Certainly he's
contemplating suicide.
> > It is actually possible to magically screw with tv.
> That explains "Touched by an Angel" being on the air for so long.
he definitely didn't write Eve of the Maelstrom
> <The Queen can fire the Governor General, in theory>
> >The system they're recommending may make it
> >impossible for the 'President' (new title, although we've already got
> >one in the Senate) to sack the government, a vital check.
>
> Amazing. Sounds like the ancient Roman patrician republic.
they're pushing 'no real change' but they've probably got a hidden
agenda
> <Rohan's offering me vanilla ice cream with white sprinkles>
> I prefer crushed oreos in my ice cream, but thanks just the same.
what do you think they put in oreos?
> >> <Telemarketers extract vengeance through spam>
> >email's a wonderful invention. So anonymous.
> To a point. The Feds can get anyone eventually.
muhahahahahahahahaha
> <Sean has spoken to the goddess Gaia>
> >He's evidently meant to do something important. Or get amusingly killed.
> You're making Gaia sound like Lloth. Salvatore's gotten to you.
somebody on the Heroic Quest has to be Kenny.... but if this group were
the HotL, Sean would be a misunderstood good guy version of Raistlin.
> >> Going after the 60 year old kindergarten teacher now?
> >with a hatchet, first.
> There must be at least one teacher that you remember positively.
only that specific teacher
> >> <Rohan's whiskers: when you care enough to send the very best>
> >I will of course shoot any man coming down the driveway
>
> Makes it easier to gather the whiskers. Can I borrow Simon's crocodile
> skinner?
ask him. I've got one too. How do you propose to gather them?
> >> <Rohan, VP for Marketing, owns 10% of the Acme Terrorist supply store>
> And get paid in kind, I suppose.
pay is flexible
> >> 90s girl scouts earn castration badges
> >castration gets taught at high school.
> True. We practice on labradors.
that's cruelty to animals
> >Stalking's not gender-based anyway
> That's a rather dangerous one to turn into a co-ed merit badge.
I believe in co-ed scouts and the Orgy badge
> >> Laura inherited Kit's +5 Ring of Protection against STDs.
> >
> >you mean her *Lazarus' Deluxe Clones* Gold Card? Kit probably should've
> >died of syphillis/childbirth several times.
>
> After Steel, Kit could have probably used herblore to avoid another pregnancy.
sounds pretty lethal
> Why she didn't die of an STD before she joined the dragonarmy is a mystery
see above under Clones
> >> <Tandar Part 2: The Dez and Bertrem story>
> <laughs> Bertrem could have gotten one last blessing from Gilean\
> Astinus -- the ability to remain spry enough to maintain the library, among
> other things. Or he could be Gilean's dirty old avatar.
the gods are elsewhere, remember? Remember, it's unknown just *what*
Lunitari's mother (?) was. Sounds about the same as Gunthar.
> >seen the Infanta episode of Blackadder?
> Haven't ever seen Blackadder. What is it?
Rowan Atkinson (Mr Bean) did it in the eighties. Four 6-part series
each sending up a historical era - medieval England, Elisabeth's court,
the Regency and the Western Front 1917, plus 'Blackadder's Christmas
Carol.' In the first series Prince Edmund became Archbishop of
Canterbury, entered a political marriage and decided to depose his
father, etc.
> <Imagining Rohan dressed like great great great grandpa Raleigh.>
> >I tend to dress loosely. Not a surprise my family introduced tobacco.
> Never smoked. I grew up surprisingly free of peer pressure.
I just never had any friends so it's not an issue
> <Nero tried to drown his mom via a faked shipwreck but she made it>
> >yes, but she was a cockroach
>
> She was an armor plated one then. Cockroaches can easily be squished.
but can survive nuclear blasts...
> ><Caligula>
> >they didn't have many food colorings back then
> Cherry's natural, like vanilla. They could have improvised.
gee, I'd want to eat that
> <Poop should not float so close to the surface in toilets>
> >let's think in terms of substance properties and proximities. Seeing
> >such ridiculous levels in LAX (comparable climate iirc)... we try to
> >avoid drinking recycled waste water
>
> Not all toilets flush alike. Our beloved mayor offered to install water
> conserving commodes for free, and I took him up on it. Besides,
> whether it's a smidgeon or a gallon in the bowl, a water filter is always
> prudent.
yes, but you've got alligator teabags. And the main problem is how high
the surface is
> >> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like kender>
> >say that when a hundred of them are charging
> Not a fair example -- a hundred of anything, even ants, is scary.
the psychological effect is designed for large groups
> >> >> >> <Spike: Closet Collie, as told to MZ Bradley>
> >Sword was in E. Timor, using a grenade launcher as an overgrown rifle
> >and beating a prisoner.
>
> Salvatore might be a good one to get Sword's story into print. Drizzt can
> use a new buddy by now, with Wulfgar being a mess.
Sword would go full automatic on sight
> <Catch! --oops, I hope it didn't hurt too much.
> >thanks for the excuse
>
> Anything for you dear. But you never do stand on ceremony anyway.
only the shattered bodies of my vanquished foes
> >> <What the heck would Kit do with a VW?>
> >> Smelt it and make counterfeit currency.
> >
> >the big picture eludes her, but she's still a good strategist
>
> What's the big picture? Kit can't drive it through those "secret" trails on
> Krynn that everyone seems to know about. And filling it with explosives
> to trap curious kender or gnomes won't help her much either.
she might realise it can travel in time :)
> >> >What'd she do with the micro-uzi under the seat?
> <It's agreed that the unpleasant things she'd try to do would hurt a lot.>
> >> >> >> <Dalamar, the ultimate bath toy>
> >how long would an elf lie in his own filth?
>
> The things ooze, they don't gush. And the shower over the tub means
> Dalamar's not wallowing in the stuff.
so it's the Death Chamber experience?
> >> >> <Check all guns in at the door to the bathroom>
> ><guardian?>
> >> But you didn't explain how you got the gun past him to begin with.
> >
> >I bribed him
>
> It's not like he'll take money. There is no way he'd ignore munching on
> you with a Bunsen-like singlemindedness.
I happened to have another guardian with me - this one was also
extremely lonely and female.
> >> <would I believe Rohan's sensitive?>
> <sort of>
> <angst ridden poetry description>
> >> Must have been written during eucalyptus withdrawal.
> >caffeine. Doesn't work anyway. Columbian Cola failed to keep me awake
> >Sunday night, and NoDoz ain't helping either.
> You're already accustomed to caffeine. The only things that can keep me
> awake are certain antihistamines, a big problem, or post nightmare jitters.
sorry
> >> <Cross-examination can last forever>
> >autopilot is the norm. Just keep rephrasing the same question until
> >they try to strangle you. Can do shifts.
>
> The judge does jump in eventually. And if it's the defendant on the stand
> here in the States, you can just plead the Fifth ad nauseaum.
which is why justice will end up being dispensed informally
> >> >> <ID4 example of sexism in the army>
> >> It could have been a slip. The world was about to end.
> >
> >how did he get elected? If there had been a woman behind him he
> >would've eaten 30mm.
>
> Come to think of it, the best jobs they could come up with for the female
> leads were stripping and public relations. You may be onto something there.
even better, it was overwhelmingly about those three blokes (the
Goldblum character didn't need to be male), and the most important
female was the stripper, who drove that truck. Note in the crucial
scenes near the end the women didn't do much at all. I suppose if a
movie's going to be about Americans saving the world (again)...
> <Where were all the F15s and 16s? In Tucson?>
> >simply not as many around. Dreamland is after all an AFB.
>
> Is Dreamland Area 51? That's a rather desolate military installation, unlike
> the other AFBs, where you can see the aircraft lined up for miles. I don't
> think it functions quite the same way as the others.
Area 51 is the size of Switzerland. Dreamland is in there somewhere,
and is the USAF testing area. Certainly surviving air farce units
would've headed there.
> >of course, the media is run by the oppressors anyway. Still trying to
> >figure out Bulworth - a Fox release.
> Warren Beatty is a moron. I cannot believe that he has swallowed so
> much of that Bulworth script that he believes he should become > President.
he's more qualified than Reagan - he played a Prez beforehand. But the
film comes across as an early start to campaigning. The politics behind
it are obvious and Murdoch wouldn't allow it without a payoff.
> >> >> <Mr. Tolstrup Sr gets the dirty part of caring for Bunsen>
> >he made his pile before acquiring said dog
> So now Bunsen's the one making the piles. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
can't take my eyes off of you
> <Profit potential in auctioning off a Koalataur>
> >I'm currently an unknown quantity
>
> You really do underrate yourself. I think we might even get a bid from
> Shalafi.
you need to be able to count money first
> >smart dracs?
>
> Some are. Gakhan definitely was and Slith is corporate VP material.
our world or Dilbert's?
> <Shooting Altie's against the rules>
> >I just rewrote 'em
>
> I think I'm protected under the endangered goddess act. Right after the
> Queen's corgis.
that's what you think. Besides, the law doesn't recognise polytheism.
> >> <Gunthar took steps to change recruitment policies after the gods left>
> <That was an imposter, Gunthar should have been dust by then>
> >they're illusions and the Greygem was really full of crack
>
> And Chaos was George Bush jr. With Reorx being the father of the
> gnomes, I would think he'd fill the Graygem with something less organic
> and more creative, like LSD. It'd explain the hallucinations and Chaos'
> temper at any rate.
trapped in there for eternity with a humongous stash...
> <There were job vacancies in the elven Senate, but the Puppet King
> portrayed younger Senators as a forgotten generation>
>
> >the same book where a four year-old is acting sixteen?
>
> Not the best reference, to be sure, but the only one we've got.
> Especially since Lizz announced the end of the BoT series.
great, as it would actually have been more appropriate as BoT.
> >> <The Measure is needed to define consensus>
> >presumably rules *were* needed, but to be interpreted in light of the
> >Oath. Sounds like it just got too complex.
>
> Like the right to die issue here. On the face of it, it seems like a pure
> conscience issue. But since it provides a good cover for unscrupulous
> folks who want to get rid of inconvenient dependents, it's something that
> has to be legislated.
we need 'bye bye boutiques'
> <The elves probably wouldn't deal with the LoS if Valian joined. But
> they might not deal with the LoS regardless>
> >there goes their mission statement. I'd be inclined to have people like
> >him in 'bandit gangs' that are actually part of a covert KoS order. The
> >CIA can get away with denying involvement in the drug trade.
>
> The LoS certainly would not have the moral issues that Linsha
> Majere has with working undercover in Sanction. And it would be
> more believable to have "rogue" LoS at odds with the KoS over
> ambiguous "ends justify the means" types of decisions.
no true KoS would care about working undercover. Anybody who thinks
subtlety is wrong has no concept of what honour truly is. Their job is
to further good in the most efficient manner possible.
> >> >The disaffected KoT should've just joined the KoS.
> >> Agreed, since they are virtually identical.
> >
> >and the LoS is virtually identical to the KoS...
> The LoS really is like the Mad Baron's army in BiA. Trendy honorable
> types with no ancestral plate mail to call their own.
bunch of wankers acting like the KoS would if they got the realistic
coverage they deserve.
> >> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
> >the issues are too sensitive for mass involvement
>
> The preliminary discussions might happen under closed doors. But
> if the elves push Gunthar, and he says no, it all comes out into the
> public forum.
absolute last resort
> >besides, I figured Lozza talked to both sides, being a blood relative of
> >the elven leaders and a longtime friend of the humans. Tanis doesn't
> >quite have the profile, and 2nd Gen clearly said they worked together.
>
> Tanis doesn't have it with elves, certainly. But he did have it with the
> Knights, especially after leading them during Kit's attack on Palanthas.
> We're basically agreeing on Tanis and Laurana's roles; we're just at
> odds over the division of duties.
it makes sense that they work together. Tanis isn't a diplomat.
> >> <Rohan wants to see me do a rope trick>
> >don't wear a tie. Dumbest fashion idea since shorts + long sleeves.
>
> I can never think of a logical reason why anyone should wear shorts and
> long sleeves, since it defeats the purpose of staying cool. But how do
> you get by when you have to wear a suit if you don't have a tie?
haven't worn a suit in years. An open collar for dressy occasions.
> <Superman's a Nazi??>
>
> Superman and Lois are like a fireman and his wife. The guy makes a
> committment to risk his life at a moment's notice, and his wife marries
> him accepting that she's got to come second to that.
bustup time.
> >Sword is a normal man who doesn't hesitate to kill, screws a prostitute
> and has a vendetta.
>
> Sword's just doing what comes naturally for him, just like Clark is.
Clark isn't natural
> >> >> >> <DL may be re-oriented to Pokemon pre-teen fans>
> >> Sir Walter Raleigh's line ends here. Oh well, he must have had cousins.
> >
> >you're assuming I'd train children of mine to be T$R customers
>
> You never know. Your son might be rebellious and clandestinely read the
> "Emperor of Ansalon." He might even go to work for WotC and repeatedly
> resurrect Flint Fireforge.
I'd kill him first
> <Eliminating editors does not improve continuity.>
> >
> >and putting them in helped so much. A company that has senior people
> >simultaneously admitting and denying serious ongoing problems...
>
> Now that big brother Hasbro is watching, it will may be increasingly harder
> to let things slide, if there is a perceived erosion of the economic base.
> But fans will buy anything these days.
or piss off if WoS sucks.
> <Morten live is just as nice as Morten in print>
> >
> >excuse me while I sharpen my pitchfork
>
> You're going to have him move bales of hay? That's not very hospitable.
I'll be moving the tines through unresisting heavy objects
> <What more can Rohan's teachers tell me that I haven't already read?>
> >
> >you keep saying this forum is read by children...
>
> That hasn't stopped you yet.
ooh yeah
> >> >> <an anti-missile gatling system is faster than Speedy Gonzalez>
> >> Speedy is safe if Wiley Coyote is at the controls.
> >
> >I conned him into selling me his stock
>
> But Wiley will offer to show you how it works first, and that's all the time
> that Speedy needs.
he won't know about it. And Speedy isn't psychic
> >> >> >> >> ><Sword, voluntarily unemployed>
> >he doesn't trust *himself*
>
> It can be left in the vicinity then, and a stooge can set it off.
that would involve finding him
> >> <How will you kill a munchkin rat?>
> >Sean is most certainly not a munchkin. You should see the literal
> >combat monsters he's saddled with. Whisker *bonfire*?
>
> It's where Sean's whiskers are sacrificed as a burnt offering.
to who?
> >> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
> >> No, your Mom and I discuss all the great reasons it'd be nice to go there.
> >
> >ice-skating? Building igloos? Beer?
>
> Cruising under the midnight sun. Beautiful vistas.
I waste the vista with my crossbow
> >> >that's what you think. <schlinng>
> >>
> >> You just wounded my postman. That's a federal offense.
> >
> >might as well be hung for a sheep as a goat then
>
> We've gone from Undergrad Rage to Death Wish Part II.
I've seen Death Wish II. It was about Charles Bronson beating crap out
of the blokes who finally killed his daughter.
> >> >> <Rohan's mom will make him mind his manners>
> <Rohan shushes his mom>
> >that's not very nice
>
> Dads are particular about kids shushing their moms.
I'm a bit old for a smack
> >> >> <Closet Koala in denial>
> >well? Are you? What do you *think* coprophagy is?
>
> Koalas only eat their poop when under the influence.
you've done surveys?
> >sounds like a plane over the Pacific is going down
>
> The sivaks are back?
apparently we're playing Paranoia.
> >> >> >> >> ><Taxi Driver date>
> >> The mouse house is waiting for him. So's Vee.
> >
> >and he's waiting for Vee
>
> Should be quite the reunion.
but he has opposable thumbs, a sixth sense and Int 15
> >> <Lucy Lawless as Bupu, Warrior Princess>
> >> >they used Jodie Foster last time...
> >> On second thought, if it's 5th age Bupu, it should be Rhea Perlman.
> >
> >they routinely have actors in their 40s-50s play much younger
> >characters, so why not the other way around?
>
> Actually, if Jodie used the same enunciation for Bupu that she did in
> Nell, it could work.
hmm. Sickening yet fascinating, complete with a character who appeared
out of nowhere.
> >> >> >> <Assassination attempt on Drizzt Mickey and Wulfgar Duck>
> >one of us is reading it down the phone, the other behind a scope? We
> >need a situation where 'obscure death' is impossible.
>
> Unobscure death can be traced back to the assassin.
simple enough - throw Dri$$t out of a plane to land in the middle of a
major game, with helmet to preserve his features
> >> >> >> >> <The Hunger>
> >> >I don't obey the Measure
> >>
> >> Resistance is futile.
> >
> >isn't that a bit arrogant?
>
> Sounds great when pronounced in a monotone though.
I prefer calmly pointing out that they're not going anywhere
> >> ><what in the name of **** is the signal?>
> >I'll act on a signal, yours or mine
>
> It can get very confusing if the signals get crossed.
aaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh
> >> >> >> <Current boss inspires fear and likes it>
> <My boss might have a job for Sean down in Phoenix>
> >
> >how old is she? I wouldn't want to send a Dex 16 rat with opposable
> >thumbs her way if she was much older than you
>
> On the order of 15 years older, I'd say, but we're physically the same size.
Sean is sixteen!
> >Spike contracts out his biting. Also I recently shot another cat off
> >him at about 10pm.
>
> Poor kitty. I guess not everyone obeys the law about cats staying in
> at night.
getting him inside is one issue. I used a super soaker
> >been walked. Been walking myself. Me an Army officer?
>
> Army officer? Not that the uniform wouldn't suit you. But you'd
> fight for a government you're not happy with?
bring it down from within. I need a job.
> >> <Essays should not be open book tests>
> >
> >how many people can write decent essays under exam conditions?
>
> Depends on the topic and how much you like it, I'd wager. I did some of
> my best work under test pressure for my English Lit and Ancient History
> professors.
defeats the purpose of essays
> >> Bunsen and Spike are Australia's answer to Thelma and Louise. They're
> >> in it together.
> >
> >now there's an idea. Flashback to a recent episode of Daria.
>
> It'll keep other cats from climbing on Spike at any rate.
they'll be scared shitless
> >> Good luck this weekend and have fun.
> >
> <Rohan did have fun, and even got, umm, lucky>
>
> Very creative. It did sound like a blast. I never let go with my roleplaying
> imagination in the same way though. I had only one really good DM, the
> others were so-so, so the really off the wall stuff only manifested itself in
> my writing.
I have a tendency to play 'dark but not evil' characters, and a lot of
it's blowing off steam
> <Rohan's homework sounds interesting, even though he feels it's baggage
> right about now.>
>
> I guess you must be swamped by all the midterm stuff by now. But the
> Aussie PM / US President comparison is a good one to write, especially
> with the mechanics of Aussie government changing so much right now.
only the Constitution, and only if the referendum gets up. Does Slick
Willy currently GAF about his job?
> > Are you aware that when Reagan bombed Gadaffi, a move with
> >great potential to strain NATO (a UK offensive base was used), and
> >against the spirit of an Executive Order, possibly boozed-up
> >congressional leaders were given forty minutes to object unanimously?
>
> Best way to diffuse opposition when you're a popular President going against
> a politically expedient target. Clinton has not been able to use the same
> tactic with villian of the moment Hussein because of his bad press and the
> fact that he gives the Senate too much time to think.
what Reagan did should not be legal
> >Time to go and watch one of the most unrealistic Aussie cop shows ever.
>
> Sounds like a well deserved rest.
finally got the bloody thing in today. The cop show featured
two-dimensional supporting characters and an attempt to inject drama.
Further bad cop tv tonight.
Rohan Tolstrup, master of Daltigoth Vase Decorator's Association
Steve Miller
<< it is his place to adhere to canon, not to rewrite it >>
Wrong. You apparently need to read the first chapter of "Dragonlance 15th
Anniversary" again.
Steve Miller
Writer of Stuff
"I've got way too much class to watch Jerry Springer. Come over here and pull
on my finger."
--"Jerry Springer," Weird Al
Tolstrup
>
> Rohan Tolstrup wrote:
>
> << it is his place to adhere to canon, not to rewrite it >>
>
> Anniversary" again.
it was acceptable to have a different ending, in fact important
considering that it was a module, target audience frequently having
played the original modules. However, perpetuation of the ridiculous
Ariakas discrepancy and going with *neither* of the divergent accounts
is not acceptable. There should be one official version, not three. In
a line where there are deep-seated problems almost impossible to
rectify, I don't see why an easily solved one need be deliberately
exacerbated.
Rohan Tolstrup
MLMartin98
>it was acceptable to have a different ending, in fact important
>considering that it was a module, target audience frequently having
>played the original modules. However, perpetuation of the ridiculous
>Ariakas discrepancy and going with *neither* of the divergent accounts
>is not acceptable.
As far as I can tell, Steve and Stan! went with one of those sources--the
first two paragraphs in the Emperor's writeup are _verbatim_ copies of what's
in my copy of _DRAGONLANCE Classics Vol. III_.
Now, before you start again about how 'modules aren't canon' and the like,
let me say something:
ROHAN TOLSTRUP DOES NOT DETERMINE OFFICIAL DRAGONLANCE CANON.
The DL designers appear to go with the rather common-sensical idea that the
material that's 'canon' is that which best fits with the DL world and other
material, without resorting to rules such 'novels over modules', 'W&H over
non-W&H', or the like. If I'm wrong, I hope Steve will correct me.
Steve and Stan! had to make a judgement call here--there are two versions of
Ariakas in print, one portraying him as a fighter-mage, one as a
fighter-cleric. I've talked over this issue with Steve, and he pointed out
that it makes more sense for Ariakas to be a cleric, as placing a servant of
Nuitari in charge of the Dragon Empire doesn't make all that much sense,
especially considering the problems Takhisis has had with mages before and will
have again.
So, Steve & Stan! went with Ariakas as a cleric. It's not a gaping
discontinuity--it contradicts about a page and a half of random exposition in
_Dragons of Spring Dawning_ and maybe a line or two in _The Soulforge_--it fits
in with the vast majority of other material, it makes more sense within the
world, and it's relatively easy to fix if you don't like it.
>Rohan Tolstrup
Matthew L. Martin
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Steve cherrypicked existing works when writing DL Classics>
>it is his place to adhere to canon, not to rewrite it
But the readers are the ones currently defining canon by default. One
can't adhere to what TSR refuses to delineate.
>
<Continuity errors spoil a reader's bond with a character>
>
>a character seems less real if you can't believe the book is 1st person.
>The Holy Six actually felt like being inside their heads, and Legends
>only works as first person. Soulforge was ruined by being unbelievable
>as Raistlin's actual experiences.
Coda aside, I found Raist's reactions to be fairly typical. I was more
bothered by Raist finding out in BiA that spells could be cast without
components. Given that a pre-teen kid in Heroes and Fools was casting
sleep spells on her mage father without breaking a sweat, before the
5th age sorcery became common knowledge, young Raistlin should have
fried half of Solace by the time he was 16.
>
<LA thinks it has only earthquakes to worry about.>
>it's my port of entry
I forgot that's the airport of choice when coming to the US from the Pacific.
>
<It's easier to nuke Melbourne from above than below>
>
>that's what you think
If the Pentagon will go for it, we can always run a test to find out.
>
>> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
>highgod always came across as a parallel entity to Ao. Certainly it
>makes sense to have an 'overgod' for every sphere
Both DL and FR have pantheons that are incapable of ruling by committee.
I don't approve of a monotheistic DL, but even in real world polytheistic
religions, there is always one bogeyman "force" that keeps the gods in line.
>
>> >> >> <Getting armed back up for a dental appointment>
>3 for the price of 2 as an introductory offer
Let me think on it. #3 is still unfortunately useful.
>
>> <Sean was persuaded to blab with the werewolves>
>he was actually mentally compelled to spill his guts. Certainly he's
>contemplating suicide.
You mean that's all it takes to off the rat? So the best way to get rid
of Sean is to have him appear on Forgive and Forget.
>
>> > It is actually possible to magically screw with tv.
>> That explains "Touched by an Angel" being on the air for so long.
>
>he definitely didn't write Eve of the Maelstrom
Uncle Trapspringer is definitely his.
>
<Aussie government is tipping the balance in favor of longevity>
>they're pushing 'no real change' but they've probably got a hidden
>agenda
If it's not an obvious piece of pork barrel, then it has to be something
that benefits whatever party is in charge.
>
>> <Rohan's offering me vanilla ice cream with white sprinkles>
>> I prefer crushed oreos in my ice cream, but thanks just the same.
>
>what do you think they put in oreos?
I sprinkle the crushed cookie on the ice cream, not the white filling.
>
<The Feds can track email, eventually>
>muhahahahahahahahaha
The average spammer isn't worth the money spent tracing the source. But
spam the White House, and the Men in Black will show up at your door.
>
<Sean's sounding suspiciously Salvatoran>
>somebody on the Heroic Quest has to be Kenny.... but if this group were
>the HotL, Sean would be a misunderstood good guy version of Raistlin.
I don't think 12 year olds were Raistlin's type.
>
>> >> Going after the 60 year old kindergarten teacher now?
>> >with a hatchet, first.
>> There must be at least one teacher that you remember positively.
>
>only that specific teacher
Makes sense. The others were probably too young for your tastes.
>> >> <Rohan's whiskers: when you care enough to send the very best>
>> >I will of course shoot any man coming down the driveway
<How does one go about gathering whiskers?>
I can hold a Rave party. Since you're making things so much easier,
the shave will be done in no time.
>
>> >> <Rohan, VP for Marketing, owns 10% of the Acme Terrorist supply store>
>> And get paid in kind, I suppose.
>
>pay is flexible
What else do you want besides additions to your arsenal?
>> >castration gets taught at high school.
>> True. We practice on labradors.
>that's cruelty to animals
No, painkillers are used on all but the stalker badge boy scouts.
>
>I believe in co-ed scouts and the Orgy badge
Somehow, I see you more as the guy eager to help the little old ladies
cross the street.
>
>> After Steel, Kit could have probably used herblore to avoid another
>pregnancy.
>
>sounds pretty lethal
There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were extinct
by the 1st century because they were so effective.
>
<Kit's amazing STD survival rate is due to gnome cloning efforts>
That implies that the cells were taken from her at a point in time and stored.
Ariakas would have noticed that Kit periodically got younger.
>
>> >> <Tandar Part 2: The Dez and Bertrem story>
<Bertrem is being blessed by Gilean one way or another>
>
>the gods are elsewhere, remember?
Scenario 1 was pre-Chaos war. As for the dirty old avatar, we don't
know if the gods are hiding in plain sight.
>Remember, it's unknown just *what* Lunitari's mother (?) was. Sounds
>about the same as Gunthar.
Perhaps Bertrem is Lunitari's half brother then, and Dez sees him as he
truly is. How romantic.
>
>> Haven't ever seen Blackadder. What is it?
>
<Explanation of Blackadder>
Never was much into Mr. Bean. I always preferred Monty Python.
>
<Altarielle never smoked and had no peer pressure to do so>
>I just never had any friends so it's not an issue
I just don't believe you when you say that. What about your role-
playing buddies?
>
<If Nero's mom were a cockroach, she should have been easily squashed>
>
>but can survive nuclear blasts...
It's a good thing Nero didn't have the bomb then. Every time he missed he
just would have tried again.
>
>> ><Caligula>
>> >they didn't have many food colorings back then
>> Cherry's natural, like vanilla. They could have improvised.
>
>gee, I'd want to eat that
You're related to Caligula too? That is some family tree.
>
>> <Poop should not float so close to the surface in toilets>
>
>yes, but you've got alligator teabags. And the main problem is how high
>the surface is
It's environmentally sound as it makes it easier for any copraphagus
species to get nourishment.
>
>> >> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like kender>
>> >say that when a hundred of them are charging
>
>> Not a fair example -- a hundred of anything, even ants, is scary.
>
>the psychological effect is designed for large groups
That's why when you see two of them next to armed bodyguards you get
a Tas/Sturm visual effect.
>
<Sword and Drizzt: Move over Wulfgar>
>
>Sword would go full automatic on sight
Sword would not be able to resist a storyline where any lost body part
can be regrown in the next chapter.
>
>> <Catch! --oops, I hope it didn't hurt too much.
>> >thanks for the excuse
>>
>> Anything for you dear. But you never do stand on ceremony anyway.
>
>only the shattered bodies of my vanquished foes
You'd stand taller on a stepstool, I think.
>
>> >> <What the heck would Kit do with a VW?>
>> What's the big picture?
>
>she might realise it can travel in time :)
Oh pooh. You know time is something I can't keep track of :-)
Perhaps the time traveling VW backfired on her, and she's now
inhabiting the form of an incredibly stupid 5th age dragon.
>> >> >> >> <Dalamar, the ultimate bath toy>
>> >how long would an elf lie in his own filth?
>>
>> The things ooze, they don't gush. And the shower over the tub means
>> Dalamar's not wallowing in the stuff.
>
>so it's the Death Chamber experience?
Death? Not quite. It is an experience though.
>
>> >> >> <Check all guns in at the door to the bathroom>
<The guardian won't pass up a chance to dine on fresh meat>
>
>I happened to have another guardian with me - this one was also
>extremely lonely and female.
I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have you for dinner.
>
<Caffeine doesn't keep Rohan awake because he's used to it>
>> The only things that can keep me awake are certain antihistamines
>> , a big problem, or post nightmare jitters.
>
>sorry
Not your fault, Koalataur ( unless you're an antihistamine) but thanks.
Like Raistlin, I take on my problems knowingly. Fortunately, nothing's
happened to me in a while to give me a nightmare.
>
>> >> <Cross-examination can last forever>
>> The judge does jump in eventually. And if it's the defendant on the stand
>> here in the States, you can just plead the Fifth ad nauseaum.
>
>which is why justice will end up being dispensed informally
Most times justice is a deal between opposing attorneys.
>
>> >> >> <ID4 example of sexism in the army>
>Note in the crucial scenes near the end the women didn't do much at
>all. I suppose if a movie's going to be about Americans saving the world
> (again)...
Lots of times they were portrayed as a stumbling block. Goldblum's ex-wife
almost kept the President from getting the scoop on the alien countdown.
And America always saves the world -- everyone else is just jealous ;-)
>
>> <Where were all the F15s and 16s? In Tucson?>
>
>Area 51 is the size of Switzerland. Dreamland is in there somewhere,
>and is the USAF testing area. Certainly surviving air farce units
>would've headed there.
That depends if you swallow the plotline of the movie. There were probably
little to no surviving AF hardware because they were thrown at the alien in
the first wave.
>
<If Warren Beatty becomes President, we're doomed>
>he's more qualified than Reagan - he played a Prez beforehand. But the
>film comes across as an early start to campaigning. The politics behind
>it are obvious and Murdoch wouldn't allow it without a payoff.
At least Reagan was a governor of a major state of the union. I can't see
a presidential candidate who's major platform issue would be eliminating
the NC-17 rating.
>
>> >> >> <Mr. Tolstrup Sr gets the dirty part of caring for Bunsen>
>> >he made his pile before acquiring said dog
>> So now Bunsen's the one making the piles. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
>
>can't take my eyes off of you
"I'm just too good to be true." Don't ask me to name the song though.
>
>> <Profit potential in auctioning off a Koalataur>
>> You really do underrate yourself. I think we might even get a bid from
>> Shalafi.
>
>you need to be able to count money first
That must have hurt. But don't worry, we'll set a high enough reserve so
that only serious bidders need apply.
>
>> >smart dracs?
>>
>> Some are. Gakhan definitely was and Slith is corporate VP material.
>
>our world or Dilbert's?
In the Doom Brigade, Slith is the guy who points out all of the nuances of
a situation to Kang so he can make a good decision. Very
real world action there. Gakhan is the epitome of a corporate spy.
>
>> <Shooting Altie's against the rules>
>> I think I'm protected under the endangered goddess act. Right after the
>> Queen's corgis.
>
>that's what you think. Besides, the law doesn't recognise polytheism.
US law guarantees my existence under separation of Church and State.
>
<The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
>>
It certainly explains Chaos' need to bring about Oblivion at all costs. The
Chaos War was really all about godly withdrawal.
<Okay, so the Puppet King was a CW book. ;-P)
<The Oath just got too complex, similar to right to die issue in the US>
>
>we need 'bye bye boutiques'
Unconventional Catholic that I am, I could probably accept the right to die
as legislation, if there were safeguards to prevent its misuse against the
incapacitated.
<Unlike the LoS, knights like Linsha believe working undercover is
dishonorable>
>
>no true KoS would care about working undercover. Anybody who thinks
>subtlety is wrong has no concept of what honour truly is. Their job is
>to further good in the most efficient manner possible.
Linsha's objections had more to do with misrepresenting herself to people,
and with having to roleplay a reprehensible gutter rat. The same thing
happened in Chronicles, when Sturm wouldn't shave off his moustaches
as part of his female disguise. This would be one way the LoS would
differ from the KoS, because they do believe in doing whatever it takes.
>
<KoT=KoS=LoS>
>bunch of wankers acting like the KoS would if they got the realistic
>coverage they deserve.
Unfortunately, the KoS is weighed down by the fact that they're the
only team that plays by a defined set of rules. The KoT are supposed
to be the same way, but they've degenerated back to being no better
than the Dragonarmies.
>
>> >> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
>> The preliminary discussions might happen under closed doors. But
>> if the elves push Gunthar, and he says no, it all comes out into the
>> public forum.
>
>absolute last resort
Agreed, because the elves would never take it that far. The problems
don't threaten them just yet, so they would not go out of their way to
make Gunthar angry.
>
>> >besides, I figured Lozza talked to both sides, being a blood relative of
>> >the elven leaders and a longtime friend of the humans. Tanis doesn't
>> >quite have the profile, and 2nd Gen clearly said they worked together.
>>
>> Tanis doesn't have it with elves, certainly. But he did have it with the
>> Knights, especially after leading them during Kit's attack on Palanthas.
>> We're basically agreeing on Tanis and Laurana's roles; we're just at
>> odds over the division of duties.
>
>it makes sense that they work together. Tanis isn't a diplomat.
He was the guy representing the elves in DoSF, precisely because of
his involvement during the attack on Palanthas.
>
<Rohan hasn't worn a suit in years>
I've got a closet full that I can't wear because we've gone business casual
at work. Everytime I put one on, everyone assumes I'm interviewing.
>
<Firemen's wives accept that they come second to an emergency>
>bustup time.
Only if the guy chooses to be a fireman after he marries. Any woman who
marries a fireman knowingly goes into it with her eyes open.
>
>> >Sword is a normal man who doesn't hesitate to kill, screws a prostitute
>> and has a vendetta.
>>
>> Sword's just doing what comes naturally for him, just like Clark is.
>
>Clark isn't natural
True. Most men don't faint at the sight of a green rock.
>
>> >> >> >> <DL may be re-oriented to Pokemon pre-teen fans>
>> >you're assuming I'd train children of mine to be T$R customers
>>
>> You never know. Your son might be rebellious and clandestinely read the
>> "Emperor of Ansalon." He might even go to work for WotC and repeatedly
>> resurrect Flint Fireforge.
>
>I'd kill him first
We are talking an adult child here -- one who's safely several continents
away in Renton. I can see his latest book about the resurrection of the
entire Fireforge family begin with a dedication: "To my dad, who always
believed that Jasper should have survived in Goldmoon's place."
<It's hard to change things at WotC when fans buy anything>
>
>or piss off if WoS sucks.
That'll be the over 20s most likely. The younger ones do seem to be
more devoted.
>
<Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
>I'll be moving the tines through unresisting heavy objects
That's not a nice way to treat part of your Renton assault force.
>
>> <What more can Rohan's teachers tell me that I haven't already read?>
>> >
>> >you keep saying this forum is read by children...
>>
>> That hasn't stopped you yet.
>
>ooh yeah
Blood. Guns. Soon to be de-whiskered rats. What else is there?
>
>> >> >> <an anti-missile gatling system is faster than Speedy Gonzalez>
>> But Wiley will offer to show you how it works first, and that's all the
>time that Speedy needs.
>
>he won't know about it. And Speedy isn't psychic
Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.
>
>> >> >> >> >> ><Sword, voluntarily unemployed>
>> >he doesn't trust *himself*
>>
>> It can be left in the vicinity then, and a stooge can set it off.
>
>that would involve finding him
You've already spilled the beans.
>
>> >> <How will you kill a munchkin rat?>
>> >Sean is most certainly not a munchkin. You should see the literal
>> >combat monsters he's saddled with. Whisker *bonfire*?
>>
>> It's where Sean's whiskers are sacrificed as a burnt offering.
>
>to who?
Bastet, patron goddess of Vee the Cat.
>
>> >> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
>> >> No, your Mom and I discuss all the great reasons it'd be nice to go
>there.
>> >
>> >ice-skating? Building igloos? Beer?
>>
>> Cruising under the midnight sun. Beautiful vistas.
>
>I waste the vista with my crossbow
Morten's only part of the vista. Or are you going after the reindeer too?
>> We've gone from Undergrad Rage to Death Wish Part II.
>
>I've seen Death Wish II. It was about Charles Bronson beating crap out
>of the blokes who finally killed his daughter.
But Charles is so obvious about being a vigilante because he wants to
get caught. Killing the postman is asking for a police chase.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan's mom will make him mind his manners>
>> <Rohan shushes his mom>
>> >that's not very nice
>>
>> Dads are particular about kids shushing their moms.
>
>I'm a bit old for a smack
Although your dad putting you over his knee would be an interesting sight,
I was thinking more in terms of his making you feel guilty.
>
>> >> >> <Closet Koala in denial>
>> >well? Are you? What do you *think* coprophagy is?
>>
>> Koalas only eat their poop when under the influence.
>
>you've done surveys?
Checked at the Central Park Zoo. Koalas that do this may just be
looney or depressed.
>
>> >sounds like a plane over the Pacific is going down
>>
>> The sivaks are back?
>
>apparently we're playing Paranoia.
Paranoia is lived, not played.
>
<Sean and Vee, together again>
>
>but he has opposable thumbs, a sixth sense and Int 15
Vee will wait until the benefits from the whisker sacrifice kick in. Besides
it sounds like all she has to do is get him to spill his guts again, and Sean
will take care of himself.
>
<Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
>>
>> Actually, if Jodie used the same enunciation for Bupu that she did in
>> Nell, it could work.
>
>hmm. Sickening yet fascinating, complete with a character who appeared
>out of nowhere.
I understood what Jodie was trying to do, but Nell just grated on me after
awhile. It would have benefitted from subtitles.
>
<Getting around Drizzt's obscure death security blanket>
>> Unobscure death can be traced back to the assassin.
>
>simple enough - throw Dri$$t out of a plane to land in the middle of a
>major game, with helmet to preserve his features
The WotC CIA steps in, the body disappears and Drizzt is assumed raised
from the dead by Meilikki.
>
>> >> >> >> >> <The Hunger>
>> >> Resistance is futile.
>> >
>> >isn't that a bit arrogant?
>>
>> Sounds great when pronounced in a monotone though.
>
>I prefer calmly pointing out that they're not going anywhere
It works, I suppose, but it does raise false hope of eventual release.
>
>> >> ><what in the name of **** is the signal?>
>> >I'll act on a signal, yours or mine
>>
>> It can get very confusing if the signals get crossed.
>
>aaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh
Nice imitation of the Klingon mating call. Trust me, you'll understand
the signal the instant that it's sent.
>
>> >> >> >> <Current boss inspires fear and likes it>
>> <My boss might have a job for Sean down in Phoenix>
>> >
>> >how old is she? I wouldn't want to send a Dex 16 rat with opposable
>> >thumbs her way if she was much older than you
>>
>> On the order of 15 years older, I'd say, but we're physically the same
>size.
>
>Sean is sixteen!
About the same age as her youngest daughter. Sean may have met his
match.
>
>> >Spike contracts out his biting. Also I recently shot another cat off
>> >him at about 10pm.
>>
>> Poor kitty. I guess not everyone obeys the law about cats staying in
>> at night.
>
>getting him inside is one issue. I used a super soaker
That's not a bad idea. With the encephalitis scare still on, it will be
great deterrent in stopping Vee from going after birds.
>> Army officer? Not that the uniform wouldn't suit you. But you'd
>> fight for a government you're not happy with?
>
>bring it down from within. I need a job.
Well, you'd have the aptitude for the rigors of the army, and they can
help you decide what you want to do once your hitch is up. I
might even write to you occasionally.
But why study law if you don't want to pursue a legal career? And how
would you feel about having to obey an order you don't agree with?
>
>> >> <Essays should not be open book tests>
<Altarielle loved writing essays under pressure>
>
>defeats the purpose of essays
I liked the idea of getting points for presentation of my thoughts. Rote test
answers are either right or wrong, with no grey in between.
>
>> >> Bunsen and Spike are Australia's answer to Thelma and Louise. They're
>> >> in it together.
>> >
>> >now there's an idea. Flashback to a recent episode of Daria.
>>
>> It'll keep other cats from climbing on Spike at any rate.
>
>they'll be scared shitless
You'd have to use the super soaker on Bunsen to get him to stop
carousing.
>
>> >> Good luck this weekend and have fun.
>> >
>> <Rohan did have fun, and even got, umm, lucky>
<Altie's games were never quite that creative>
>
>I have a tendency to play 'dark but not evil' characters, and a lot of
>it's blowing off steam
It's the best way to let those inhibitions out without getting drunk ;-).
>
>> <Rohan's homework sounds interesting, even though he feels it's baggage
>> right about now.>
>only the Constitution, and only if the referendum gets up. Does Slick
>Willy currently GAF about his job?
Not a bit. He's too absorbed in his wife's career right now. The party's
going to have to prod him to do anything on behalf of Gore.
>
<Reagan strong armed the Senate into approving the Libyan air strike>
<Clinton can't make the same tactic work for him>
>what Reagan did should not be legal
It's a political one upmanship type trick that's hard to legislate. In theory
Congress could have reacted by impeaching him, so they were tacitly
supporting Reagan.
>
It must have been a relief to hand in your essay. It's a shame the cop show
lived down to your expectations.
Tolstrup
>
> >
> >it was acceptable to have a different ending, in fact important
> >considering that it was a module, target audience frequently having
> >played the original modules. However, perpetuation of the ridiculous
> >Ariakas discrepancy and going with *neither* of the divergent accounts
> >is not acceptable.
>
> As far as I can tell, Steve and Stan! went with one of those sources--the
> first two paragraphs in the Emperor's writeup are _verbatim_ copies of what's
> in my copy of _DRAGONLANCE Classics Vol. III_.
DLC15A ignored Emperor of Ansalon. If Kitiara slept with Ariakas,
according to EoA she should not have survived. And besides, Spring
Dawning is the obvious canon.
> Now, before you start again about how 'modules aren't canon' and the like,
> let me say something:
>
> ROHAN TOLSTRUP DOES NOT DETERMINE OFFICIAL DRAGONLANCE CANON.
evidently nobody does
>
> The DL designers appear to go with the rather common-sensical idea that the
> material that's 'canon' is that which best fits with the DL world and other
> material, without resorting to rules such 'novels over modules', 'W&H over
> non-W&H', or the like. If I'm wrong, I hope Steve will correct me.
we both know I'm not that simplistic. By its very nature Chronicles
*MUST* be canon. If it's not factual, then it's not the world through
the eyes of Tanis, Raistlin etc. And the specific point is that we get
inside their heads. Simply put, saying Chronicles is capable of error
does serious damage to Dragonlance.
> Steve and Stan! had to make a judgement call here--there are two versions of
> Ariakas in print, one portraying him as a fighter-mage, one as a
> fighter-cleric.
so they decided to make a third. Smooth move.
I've talked over this issue with Steve, and he pointed out
> that it makes more sense for Ariakas to be a cleric, as placing a servant of
> Nuitari in charge of the Dragon Empire doesn't make all that much sense,
> especially considering the problems Takhisis has had with mages before and will
> have again.
if Ariakas is a cleric then Spring Dawning didn't 'happen,' it's just
another in-world book from a dubious source.
> So, Steve & Stan! went with Ariakas as a cleric. It's not a gaping
> discontinuity--it contradicts about a page and a half of random exposition in
> _Dragons of Spring Dawning_ and maybe a line or two in _The Soulforge_--it fits
> in with the vast majority of other material, it makes more sense within the
> world, and it's relatively easy to fix if you don't like it.
what is needed with Ariakas is AD&D stats for him *as a mage* - it's
never been clear what the hell his level was. The vast majority of
other material is therefore wrong, because it goes against the most
fundamental source of canon there is, DL's spiritual lifeblood. And
class aside, Niles made a deliberate decision to go noncanon when he
ditched the father he killed etc. Any way you look at it, it was wrong
to end up with a version complying with neither.
Rohan Tolstrup
Tolstrup
> >it is his place to adhere to canon, not to rewrite it
>
> But the readers are the ones currently defining canon by default. One
> can't adhere to what TSR refuses to delineate.
he ignored both versions and only went with the module
> <Continuity errors spoil a reader's bond with a character>
> Coda aside, I found Raist's reactions to be fairly typical. I was more
> bothered by Raist finding out in BiA that spells could be cast without
> components. Given that a pre-teen kid in Heroes and Fools was casting
> sleep spells on her mage father without breaking a sweat, before the
> 5th age sorcery became common knowledge, young Raistlin should have
> fried half of Solace by the time he was 16.
The whole idea that they'd been adventuring solo five years and some
time beforehand is ludicrous. Raistlin's 3rd level (minimum for test
IIRC) five years *after* the test. The revelation was 'some spells pad
the bill.' Simple enough: the standard AD&D wizard has learned to strip
spells down to the bare minimum. Raistlin was a 'theory wizard' prior,
casting standard spells with components that weren't necessary -
throwing a small arrow for Magic Missile etc.
> <LA thinks it has only earthquakes to worry about.>
> >it's my port of entry
>
> I forgot that's the airport of choice when coming to the US from the Pacific.
it's the closest and South Central's a good place to equip
> <It's easier to nuke Melbourne from above than below>
> >
> >that's what you think
>
> If the Pentagon will go for it, we can always run a test to find out.
they might have reservations...
> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
> Both DL and FR have pantheons that are incapable of ruling by committee.
> I don't approve of a monotheistic DL, but even in real world polytheistic
> religions, there is always one bogeyman "force" that keeps the gods in line.
yep. Makes sense to have a 'god of the gods' who takes care of abstract
things like erosion of the crystal sphere.
> >> >> >> <Getting armed back up for a dental appointment>
> >3 for the price of 2 as an introductory offer
>
> Let me think on it. #3 is still unfortunately useful.
full price for the first, 75% for the second
> >> <Sean was persuaded to blab with the werewolves>
> >he was actually mentally compelled to spill his guts. Certainly he's
> >contemplating suicide.
> You mean that's all it takes to off the rat? So the best way to get rid
> of Sean is to have him appear on Forgive and Forget.
not really. He was totally humiliated and feels defiled. It was done
by a vampire at that. Also it may have screwed up his working rels...
> >> > It is actually possible to magically screw with tv.
> >he definitely didn't write Eve of the Maelstrom
> Uncle Trapspringer is definitely his.
Sean's more like Cancer Man than anything else. He wrote Soulforge,
subliminals and all.
> <Aussie government is tipping the balance in favor of longevity>
>
> >they're pushing 'no real change' but they've probably got a hidden
> >agenda
> If it's not an obvious piece of pork barrel, then it has to be something
> that benefits whatever party is in charge.
screws with the constitutional balance, and concentrates symbolic
authority in their hands.
> >> <Rohan's offering me vanilla ice cream with white sprinkles>
> >> I prefer crushed oreos in my ice cream, but thanks just the same.
> >
> >what do you think they put in oreos?
> I sprinkle the crushed cookie on the ice cream, not the white filling.
coca, cocoa, whatever
> <The Feds can track email, eventually>
> >muhahahahahahahahaha
> The average spammer isn't worth the money spent tracing the source. But
> spam the White House, and the Men in Black will show up at your door.
why spam the Prez when I can shitbomb the Rose Garden w/ an ultralight?
> <Sean's sounding suspiciously Salvatoran>
>
> >somebody on the Heroic Quest has to be Kenny.... but if this group were
> >the HotL, Sean would be a misunderstood good guy version of Raistlin.
>
> I don't think 12 year olds were Raistlin's type.
he's updated for the nineties and it's more angst-related
> >> >> Going after the 60 year old kindergarten teacher now?
> >> >with a hatchet, first.
> >> There must be at least one teacher that you remember positively.
> >
> >only that specific teacher
>
> Makes sense. The others were probably too young for your tastes.
never met her until then
> >> >> <Rohan's whiskers: when you care enough to send the very best>
> >> >I will of course shoot any man coming down the driveway
> <How does one go about gathering whiskers?>
>
> I can hold a Rave party. Since you're making things so much easier,
> the shave will be done in no time.
say hi to a Minimi light machinegun
> >> >> <Rohan, VP for Marketing, owns 10% of the Acme Terrorist supply store>
> >pay is flexible
>
> What else do you want besides additions to your arsenal?
money is always nice
> >> >castration gets taught at high school.
> >that's cruelty to animals
> No, painkillers are used on all but the stalker badge boy scouts.
sounds like a school with quite a cross-country team
> >I believe in co-ed scouts and the Orgy badge
>
> Somehow, I see you more as the guy eager to help the little old ladies
> cross the street.
I may be forced to sue you if you keep saying that
> >> After Steel, Kit could have probably used herblore to avoid another
> >pregnancy.
> >
> >sounds pretty lethal
>
> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were extinct
> by the 1st century because they were so effective.
overuse? I understand the Hippocratic oath forbade abortion on the
grounds that then it was highly unsafe for the woman.
> <Kit's amazing STD survival rate is due to gnome cloning efforts>
>
> That implies that the cells were taken from her at a point in time and stored.
> Ariakas would have noticed that Kit periodically got younger.
we're talking a monthly service. Certainly as often as possible
> <Bertrem is being blessed by Gilean one way or another>
> >the gods are elsewhere, remember?
>
> Scenario 1 was pre-Chaos war. As for the dirty old avatar, we don't
> know if the gods are hiding in plain sight.
DoSF was a prank?
> >Remember, it's unknown just *what* Lunitari's mother (?) was. Sounds
> >about the same as Gunthar.
>
> Perhaps Bertrem is Lunitari's half brother then, and Dez sees him as he
> truly is. How romantic.
pass the AK
> >> Haven't ever seen Blackadder. What is it?
> <Explanation of Blackadder>
> Never was much into Mr. Bean. I always preferred Monty Python.
whatever. You actually think of Atkinson as the character.
> <Altarielle never smoked and had no peer pressure to do so>
> >I just never had any friends so it's not an issue
> I just don't believe you when you say that. What about your role-
> playing buddies?
see 'em once a fortnight (try building relationships at uni), and we're
basically acquaintances who roleplay.
> <If Nero's mom were a cockroach, she should have been easily squashed>
> >but can survive nuclear blasts...
> It's a good thing Nero didn't have the bomb then. Every time he missed he
> just would have tried again.
the leg peninsula's how big?
> >> ><Caligula>
> >gee, I'd want to eat that
> You're related to Caligula too? That is some family tree.
that is sarcasm
> >> <Poop should not float so close to the surface in toilets>
> >
> >yes, but you've got alligator teabags. And the main problem is how high
> >the surface is
>
> It's environmentally sound as it makes it easier for any copraphagus
> species to get nourishment.
at least let them hang around in the sewer then. How gross.
> >> >> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like kender>
> >the psychological effect is designed for large groups
>
> That's why when you see two of them next to armed bodyguards you get
> a Tas/Sturm visual effect.
they're trained the same as the bodyguards
> <Sword and Drizzt: Move over Wulfgar>
> >
> >Sword would go full automatic on sight
>
> Sword would not be able to resist a storyline where any lost body part
> can be regrown in the next chapter.
he'd ignore Dri$$t rather than hack pieces off with a bayonet
> >> <Catch! --oops, I hope it didn't hurt too much.
> >> Anything for you dear. But you never do stand on ceremony anyway.
> >
> >only the shattered bodies of my vanquished foes
>
> You'd stand taller on a stepstool, I think.
I take it you're not the mystery witness then
> >> >> <What the heck would Kit do with a VW?>
> >she might realise it can travel in time :)
> Oh pooh. You know time is something I can't keep track of :-)
> Perhaps the time traveling VW backfired on her, and she's now
> inhabiting the form of an incredibly stupid 5th age dragon.
Malys has the same goals but isn't as smart
> >> The things ooze, they don't gush. And the shower over the tub means
> >> Dalamar's not wallowing in the stuff.
> >
> >so it's the Death Chamber experience?
>
> Death? Not quite. It is an experience though.
getting rained on is not the correct shower sensation
> <The guardian won't pass up a chance to dine on fresh meat>
> >
> >I happened to have another guardian with me - this one was also
> >extremely lonely and female.
> I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have you for dinner.
I brought some 'soul food'
> <Caffeine doesn't keep Rohan awake because he's used to it>
>
> >> The only things that can keep me awake are certain antihistamines
> >> , a big problem, or post nightmare jitters.
> >
> >sorry
>
> Not your fault, Koalataur ( unless you're an antihistamine) but thanks.
> Like Raistlin, I take on my problems knowingly. Fortunately, nothing's
> happened to me in a while to give me a nightmare.
you'll find me in your bathtub then
> >> >> <Cross-examination can last forever>
> >which is why justice will end up being dispensed informally
> Most times justice is a deal between opposing attorneys.
that's a good one as well. One of the biggest crooks in Australia got
off because, while the National Crime Authority can overcome the right
to silence, any confession is inadmissible. Make up your minds.
> >> >> >> <ID4 example of sexism in the army>
> >Note in the crucial scenes near the end the women didn't do much at
> >all. I suppose if a movie's going to be about Americans saving the world
> > (again)...
>
> Lots of times they were portrayed as a stumbling block. Goldblum's ex-wife
> almost kept the President from getting the scoop on the alien countdown.
yeah, let's just lynch the bitches who got us kicked out of paradise
> And America always saves the world -- everyone else is just jealous ;-)
here we were prepared. They sent one ship to take out the capital.
Melbourne and Sydney said it was the other city, and they wouldn't
believe it was Canberra.
> >> <Where were all the F15s and 16s? In Tucson?>
> >
> >Area 51 is the size of Switzerland. Dreamland is in there somewhere,
> >and is the USAF testing area. Certainly surviving air farce units
> >would've headed there.
>
> That depends if you swallow the plotline of the movie. There were probably
> little to no surviving AF hardware because they were thrown at the alien in
> the first wave.
strangely they sent Marines. They later deployed stealth bombers.
> <If Warren Beatty becomes President, we're doomed>
> >he's more qualified than Reagan - he played a Prez beforehand. But the
> >film comes across as an early start to campaigning. The politics behind
> >it are obvious and Murdoch wouldn't allow it without a payoff.
>
> At least Reagan was a governor of a major state of the union. I can't see
> a presidential candidate who's major platform issue would be eliminating
> the NC-17 rating.
I prefer the way Tom Clancy did it (for once) - a professional public
servant does a great job and gets handed Veep so he won't have to come
back again. Then the entire US govt gets wiped out and he's Prez, with
no dirty deals and actual competence.
> >> >> >> <Mr. Tolstrup Sr gets the dirty part of caring for Bunsen>
> >can't take my eyes off of you
>
> "I'm just too good to be true." Don't ask me to name the song though.
yeah, I'd better remove that outer layer
> >> <Profit potential in auctioning off a Koalataur>
> >> You really do underrate yourself. I think we might even get a bid from
> >> Shalafi.
> >
> >you need to be able to count money first
>
> That must have hurt. But don't worry, we'll set a high enough reserve so
> that only serious bidders need apply.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being auctioned...
> >> >smart dracs?
> >our world or Dilbert's?
>
> In the Doom Brigade, Slith is the guy who points out all of the nuances of
> a situation to Kang so he can make a good decision. Very
> real world action there. Gakhan is the epitome of a corporate spy.
next thing they'll be wearing power suits
> >> <Shooting Altie's against the rules>
> >that's what you think. Besides, the law doesn't recognise polytheism.
>
> US law guarantees my existence under separation of Church and State.
they'll send their best investigators, the ones who didn't catch Aldrich
Ames, framed Richard Jewell and let Reagan get shot.
> <The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
> >>
> It certainly explains Chaos' need to bring about Oblivion at all costs. The
> Chaos War was really all about godly withdrawal.
what if he gets the munchies?
> <Okay, so the Puppet King was a CW book. ;-P)
>
> <The Oath just got too complex, similar to right to die issue in the US>
> >we need 'bye bye boutiques'
>
> Unconventional Catholic that I am, I could probably accept the right to die
> as legislation, if there were safeguards to prevent its misuse against the
> incapacitated.
suicide's a personal decision. Nothing wrong with 'medical assist'
assuming it's voluntary and less traumatic than eating a bullet.
> <Unlike the LoS, knights like Linsha believe working undercover is
> dishonorable>
> >no true KoS would care about working undercover. Anybody who thinks
> >subtlety is wrong has no concept of what honour truly is. Their job is
> >to further good in the most efficient manner possible.
>
> Linsha's objections had more to do with misrepresenting herself to people,
> and with having to roleplay a reprehensible gutter rat. The same thing
> happened in Chronicles, when Sturm wouldn't shave off his moustaches
> as part of his female disguise. This would be one way the LoS would
> differ from the KoS, because they do believe in doing whatever it takes.
if the KoS are serious about honour they *will* do whatever it takes.
Really Linsha's just being egotistical.
> <KoT=KoS=LoS>
> >bunch of wankers acting like the KoS would if they got the realistic
> >coverage they deserve.
>
> Unfortunately, the KoS is weighed down by the fact that they're the
> only team that plays by a defined set of rules. The KoT are supposed
> to be the same way, but they've degenerated back to being no better
> than the Dragonarmies.
the KoS rules are dumb and outdated. I always saw them as fighting
guerilla war against the overlords. Their job is to promote good in the
most efficient way.
> >> >> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
<shoutin' match>
> >absolute last resort
>
> Agreed, because the elves would never take it that far. The problems
> don't threaten them just yet, so they would not go out of their way to
> make Gunthar angry.
they know the problems will threaten them. Unless Gunthar is
fundamentally stupid he won't be offended at privately being told the
KoS aren't working hard enough.
> >it makes sense that they work together. Tanis isn't a diplomat.
>
> He was the guy representing the elves in DoSF, precisely because of
> his involvement during the attack on Palanthas.
presumably *there* Laurana had better things to do
> <Rohan hasn't worn a suit in years>
> I've got a closet full that I can't wear because we've gone business casual
> at work. Everytime I put one on, everyone assumes I'm interviewing.
business casual? I just walk around in jeans, old Nikes and an
shortsleeve shirt (flannie or safari) over a basic earthtone t-shirt
> <Firemen's wives accept that they come second to an emergency>
> >bustup time.
> Only if the guy chooses to be a fireman after he marries. Any woman who
> marries a fireman knowingly goes into it with her eyes open.
or is a movie chick. Either all those Bond women are sluts, or
clinically insane for hooking up with him.
> >> Sword's just doing what comes naturally for him, just like Clark is.
> >
> >Clark isn't natural
>
> True. Most men don't faint at the sight of a green rock.
most men have reasons for what they do and have bad thoughts
> >> >> >> >> <DL may be re-oriented to Pokemon pre-teen fans>
> >> You never know. Your son might be rebellious and clandestinely read the
> >> "Emperor of Ansalon." He might even go to work for WotC and repeatedly
> >> resurrect Flint Fireforge.
> >
> >I'd kill him first
>
> We are talking an adult child here -- one who's safely several continents
> away in Renton. I can see his latest book about the resurrection of the
> entire Fireforge family begin with a dedication: "To my dad, who always
> believed that Jasper should have survived in Goldmoon's place."
seppuku time
> <It's hard to change things at WotC when fans buy anything>
> >
> >or piss off if WoS sucks.
>
> That'll be the over 20s most likely. The younger ones do seem to be
> more devoted.
until they become over 20s.
> <Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
> >I'll be moving the tines through unresisting heavy objects
> That's not a nice way to treat part of your Renton assault force.
more where that came from
> >> >you keep saying this forum is read by children...
> >>
> >> That hasn't stopped you yet.
> >
> >ooh yeah
>
> Blood. Guns. Soon to be de-whiskered rats. What else is there?
more guns. And a knife being used as anal lubricant.
> >> But Wiley will offer to show you how it works first, and that's all the
> >time that Speedy needs.
> >
> >he won't know about it. And Speedy isn't psychic
>
> Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.
Daffy, Sylvester et al can't die. Speedy's just never been up against
somebody with the right equipment before.
> >> >> >> >> >> ><Sword, voluntarily unemployed>
> >> It can be left in the vicinity then, and a stooge can set it off.
> >
> >that would involve finding him
>
> You've already spilled the beans.
nobody actually knows what he looks like.
> >> >> <How will you kill a munchkin rat?>
> >> It's where Sean's whiskers are sacrificed as a burnt offering.
> >
> >to who?
> Bastet, patron goddess of Vee the Cat.
Itchy time
> >> >> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
> >> Cruising under the midnight sun. Beautiful vistas.
> >
> >I waste the vista with my crossbow
>
> Morten's only part of the vista. Or are you going after the reindeer too?
Rudolph the red-soaked paindeer had a very bloody nose
> >> We've gone from Undergrad Rage to Death Wish Part II.
> >
> >I've seen Death Wish II. It was about Charles Bronson beating crap out
> >of the blokes who finally killed his daughter.
>
> But Charles is so obvious about being a vigilante because he wants to
> get caught. Killing the postman is asking for a police chase.
or a public service killing
> >> <Rohan shushes his mom>
> >I'm a bit old for a smack
>
> Although your dad putting you over his knee would be an interesting sight,
> I was thinking more in terms of his making you feel guilty.
I've already got enough guilt to kill five kender...
> >> >> >> <Closet Koala in denial>
> >> Koalas only eat their poop when under the influence.
> >
> >you've done surveys?
>
> Checked at the Central Park Zoo. Koalas that do this may just be
> looney or depressed.
or they just wanted to munch their own turds
> >> >sounds like a plane over the Pacific is going down
> >>
> >> The sivaks are back?
> >
> >apparently we're playing Paranoia.
>
> Paranoia is lived, not played.
Minstr Y LUV reporting live
> <Sean and Vee, together again>
> >
> >but he has opposable thumbs, a sixth sense and Int 15
>
> Vee will wait until the benefits from the whisker sacrifice kick in. Besides
> it sounds like all she has to do is get him to spill his guts again, and Sean
> will take care of himself.
she can make people speak entirely against their will? It was a major
fluke that Sean failed that save.
> <Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
> >hmm. Sickening yet fascinating, complete with a character who appeared
> >out of nowhere.
>
> I understood what Jodie was trying to do, but Nell just grated on me after
> awhile. It would have benefitted from subtitles.
JODIE FOSTER NUDE!!!!
- courtesy of Sean Girlsgirlsgirlscheap
> <Getting around Drizzt's obscure death security blanket>
>
> >> Unobscure death can be traced back to the assassin.
> >
> >simple enough - throw Dri$$t out of a plane to land in the middle of a
> >major game, with helmet to preserve his features
>
> The WotC CIA steps in, the body disappears and Drizzt is assumed raised
> from the dead by Meilikki.
which city hates Renton?
> >> >> >> >> >> <The Hunger>
> >I prefer calmly pointing out that they're not going anywhere
>
> It works, I suppose, but it does raise false hope of eventual release.
I laugh at 'gun to the head' situations
> >> >> ><what in the name of **** is the signal?>
> >> >I'll act on a signal, yours or mine
> >>
> >> It can get very confusing if the signals get crossed.
> >
> >aaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh
>
> Nice imitation of the Klingon mating call. Trust me, you'll understand
> the signal the instant that it's sent.
send it already
> >> >> >> >> <Current boss inspires fear and likes it>
> >> <My boss might have a job for Sean down in Phoenix>
> >> >
> >> >how old is she? I wouldn't want to send a Dex 16 rat with opposable
> >> >thumbs her way if she was much older than you
> >Sean is sixteen!
>
> About the same age as her youngest daughter. Sean may have met his
> match.
he's tentatively thinking of asking a 14yo to be his Lady Macbeth.
> >> Poor kitty. I guess not everyone obeys the law about cats staying in
> >> at night.
> >
> >getting him inside is one issue. I used a super soaker
>
> That's not a bad idea. With the encephalitis scare still on, it will be
> great deterrent in stopping Vee from going after birds.
you're an American. Use a .45 Uzi.
> >> Army officer? Not that the uniform wouldn't suit you. But you'd
> >> fight for a government you're not happy with?
> >
> >bring it down from within. I need a job.
>
> Well, you'd have the aptitude for the rigors of the army, and they can
> help you decide what you want to do once your hitch is up. I
> might even write to you occasionally.
dunno if I've got the physical requirements...
> But why study law if you don't want to pursue a legal career? And how
> would you feel about having to obey an order you don't agree with?
the military has a use for lawyers (although I'm studying legal studies,
making me a paralegal. I want to get into law BAD). I'd carry out the
order, assuming I respected the source and couldn't find a loophole.
> >> >> <Essays should not be open book tests>
> <Altarielle loved writing essays under pressure>
> >defeats the purpose of essays
>
> I liked the idea of getting points for presentation of my thoughts. Rote test
> answers are either right or wrong, with no grey in between.
short answer is probably better
> >> It'll keep other cats from climbing on Spike at any rate.
> >
> >they'll be scared shitless
>
> You'd have to use the super soaker on Bunsen to get him to stop
> carousing.
just a .38 loaded with blanks
> >> >> Good luck this weekend and have fun.
> >> >
> >> <Rohan did have fun, and even got, umm, lucky>
> <Altie's games were never quite that creative>
> >I have a tendency to play 'dark but not evil' characters, and a lot of
> >it's blowing off steam
>
> It's the best way to let those inhibitions out without getting drunk ;-).
and I get to kill people
> >only the Constitution, and only if the referendum gets up. Does Slick
> >Willy currently GAF about his job?
>
> Not a bit. He's too absorbed in his wife's career right now. The party's
> going to have to prod him to do anything on behalf of Gore.
he should've let Gore be The Hero of East Timor.
> >what Reagan did should not be legal
>
> It's a political one upmanship type trick that's hard to legislate. In theory
> Congress could have reacted by impeaching him, so they were tacitly
> supporting Reagan.
the definitions are screwed. Often the Prez gets to define things. And
impeaching Reagan would have been suicide.
> It must have been a relief to hand in your essay. It's a shame the cop show
> lived down to your expectations.
last night's focussed on 'it's only a game.' I cringed when the cop
played a prank on the rival footy team, then found the stolen property
in a locker. Why are those boyscouts incapable of guile? The
character's also an innocent country boy with solid rural values. That
show needs a hatchet rampage. Somebody's going to die tragically Nov.3,
but may well not be the star, who we know is leaving. Certainly her
'replacement' has had nowhere near as much screentime is needed to build
her up to carry the production.
Rohan "executioner" Tolstrup
Steve Miller
:)
(Actually, I usually tune in when I see a new thread start, but quickly drop
out when it becomes too much of a maze of inbedded comment on comments on
throw-away side issues.)
<< it was acceptable to have a different ending, in fact important
considering that it was a module, target audience frequently having
played the original modules. >>
Thank you.
<< However, perpetuation of the ridiculous
Ariakas discrepancy and going with *neither* of the divergent accounts
is not acceptable. >>
Ariakas was originally statted out as a dual-classed fighter/priest. The
reasons for making him a mage are, IMO, flimsy at best, and pointless at worst.
Further, it makes no sense that Takhisis would place someone who owes loyalty
to the Orders of High Sorcery at the top of her chain of command... to my mind.
And since it was my mind that was deciding what to do with in DL15th, Ariakas
remained as he's been from the beginning.
<< There should be one official version, not three. >>
*shrug* At least I didn't create a new one. One suggestion a play-tester put
forth was to make Ariakas triple-classed.
<< In
a line where there are deep-seated problems almost impossible to
rectify, I don't see why an easily solved one need be deliberately
exacerbated. >>
Nothing was exacerbated. I just kept things as they've been for 15 years.
(Well, with the exception of giving stats of Ariakan and creating "wiggle room"
so the source section in 'Second Generation' and Ariakan's capture by the
Knights actually makes sense in the context of what happened to the Temple of
Darkness in 'Dragons of Spring Dawning. I suppose I should have just pretended
like he never existed. Would that have made you happier?)
Steve Miller
<< As far as I can tell, Steve and Stan! went with one of those sources--the
first two paragraphs in the Emperor's writeup are _verbatim_ copies of what's
in my copy of _DRAGONLANCE Classics Vol. III_. >>
It was my decision to go with the game material whenever something didn't
matter in the Big Picture. IMO, Ariakas' class doesn't matter in the Big
Picture.
<< The DL designers appear to go with the rather common-sensical idea that the
material that's 'canon' is that which best fits with the DL world and other
material, without resorting to rules such 'novels over modules', 'W&H over
non-W&H', or the like. If I'm wrong, I hope Steve will correct me. >>
I don't want to speak for anyone else, but that was certainly *my* approach
while I was working on DL.
Steve Miller
<< Simply put, saying Chronicles is capable of error
does serious damage to Dragonlance. >>
An omnicient narrator tells us in 'Dragons of Spring Dawning' that Marquesta
Kar-Thon engages in piracy against ships sailing out of *Tarsis*.
I'm saying Chronicles is capable of error. CHRONICLES itself says it's capable
of error.
How exactly is Dragonlance seriously damaged? Or are you picking and choosing
what you define as True?
<< what is needed with Ariakas is AD&D stats for him *as a mage* - it's
never been clear what the hell his level was. >>
Why?
<< The vast majority of
other material is therefore wrong, because it goes against the most
fundamental source of canon there is, DL's spiritual lifeblood. >>
The same source that says Marquesta raids ships from Tarsis?
You know, there IS no 'fundemantal source of canon.' All there is are writers
and editors making decisions based on what they think is the best path to
follow.
If you've found yourself in repeated disagreement with the path taken by this
author or that game designer, don't buy material bearing the names of those
particular writers. (Heck, that's why although the corporate drone in my would
LOVE everyone to purchase anythign with a DL logo on it, the guy who used to
write the stuff says that this is a bad idea.)
Steve Miller
<< But the readers are the ones currently defining canon by default. One
can't adhere to what TSR refuses to delineate. >>
Yeppers!
Altarielle
(Steve Miller) writes:
>To answer the question in the header... only when they're really, really
>bored.
>:)
Masochist :-) Or maybe that Sentient Beard just takes over?
>
>(Actually, I usually tune in when I see a new thread start, but quickly drop
>out when it becomes too much of a maze of inbedded comment on comments on
>throw-away side issues.)
So it's a good thing the comments relating to you were placed at the top, eh?
;-)
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
>> <Steve cherrypicked existing works when writing DL Classics>
>he ignored both versions and only went with the module
He kept the game line consistent. Granted, people who want to
roleplay Ariakas as a mage might have liked some stats, but DLC15A
just doesn't ruin the novels for me.
>
>> <Continuity errors spoil a reader's bond with a character>
>The whole idea that they'd been adventuring solo five years and some
>time beforehand is ludicrous. Raistlin's 3rd level (minimum for test
>IIRC) five years *after* the test. The revelation was 'some spells pad
>the bill.' Simple enough: the standard AD&D wizard has learned to strip
>spells down to the bare minimum. Raistlin was a 'theory wizard' prior,
>casting standard spells with components that weren't necessary -
>throwing a small arrow for Magic Missile etc.
If emotion is what drives the discovery of 5th age sorcery, then an
angry young man like Raistlin would have made this discovery when
he saw Caramon doing the nasty with Miranda. You can probably
count the number of times that someone discovers the new magic
via a scientific method on the fingers of your left hand.
>
>> <LA thinks it has only earthquakes to worry about.>
>it's the closest and South Central's a good place to equip
You like do live dangerously, don't you?
>
>> <It's easier to nuke Melbourne from above than below>
>> If the Pentagon will go for it, we can always run a test to find out.
>
>they might have reservations...
For dinner at 8? No, they'd jump at the chance and say oops after.
>
>> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
>yep. Makes sense to have a 'god of the gods' who takes care of abstract
>things like erosion of the crystal sphere.
Putting it back in a High God/DL perspective -- wouldn't Raistlin becoming
a figurative black hole indicate an erosion of the crystal sphere that would
merit the god's involvement?
>
>> >> >> >> <Getting armed back up for a dental appointment>
>> Let me think on it. #3 is still unfortunately useful.
>
>full price for the first, 75% for the second
>
>> >> <Sean was persuaded to blab with the werewolves>
>not really. He was totally humiliated and feels defiled. It was done
>by a vampire at that. Also it may have screwed up his working rels...
Sounds like Jerry Springer material to me.
>
>Sean's more like Cancer Man than anything else. He wrote Soulforge,
>subliminals and all.
That explains the coda. It was really directed at Fox Mulder.
>
>> <Aussie government is tipping the balance in favor of longevity>
>screws with the constitutional balance, and concentrates symbolic
>authority in their hands.
I'm not up on my parliamentary government practices, but I would
imagine that the no-confidence vote is still intact and can be used to
dissolve parliament.
>
<Altie likes cookies and cream, not cookies and coke>
>> >what do you think they put in oreos?
>> I sprinkle the crushed cookie on the ice cream, not the white filling.
>
>coca, cocoa, whatever
That's in the soft drink.
>
>> <The Feds can track email, eventually>
>why spam the Prez when I can shitbomb the Rose Garden w/ an ultralight?
Because that leaves eyewitnesses.
>
<Sean as Raistlin?>
>he's updated for the nineties and it's more angst-related
Can't be. Raistlin was frustrated sexually and Sean isn't.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan's whiskers: when you care enough to send the very best>
<Whisker collection plan>
>
>say hi to a Minimi light machinegun
You have to get to it first, and I am holding the knife Simon loaned me.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan, VP for Marketing, owns 10% of the Acme Terrorist supply
>store>
>> What else do you want besides additions to your arsenal?
>
>money is always nice
but liquor is quicker, as the saying goes.
>
>> >I believe in co-ed scouts and the Orgy badge
>>
>> Somehow, I see you more as the guy eager to help the little old ladies
>> cross the street.
>
>I may be forced to sue you if you keep saying that
Why? Because I'm implying that you're a polite young man?
>
>> >> After Steel, Kit could have probably used herblore to avoid another
>> >pregnancy.
>> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were extinct
>> by the 1st century because they were so effective.
>
>overuse? I understand the Hippocratic oath forbade abortion on the
>grounds that then it was highly unsafe for the woman.
Exactly. The plants functioned as a "morning after" type drug.
>
>> <Kit's amazing STD survival rate is due to gnome cloning efforts>
<That means Kit would get younger at intervals>
>
>we're talking a monthly service. Certainly as often as possible
Depends on where the things are kept. Since Krynnish dragons don't
jump between like their Pernish cousins, it would take quite a while for
word to get to the gnomes and for the gnomes to complete the process.
>
>> <Bertrem is being blessed by Gilean one way or another>
>> Scenario 1 was pre-Chaos war. As for the dirty old avatar, we don't
>> know if the gods are hiding in plain sight.
>
>DoSF was a prank?
A diversion to fool Chaos and get him away from Krynn.
>>
>> Perhaps Bertrem is Lunitari's half brother then, and Dez sees him as he
>> truly is. How romantic.
>
>pass the AK
I thought you said you were sensitive.
>
<Altie prefers Python to Atkinson>
>whatever. You actually think of Atkinson as the character.
Tracy Ullman's good at that. I liked Python because their characters
were "out-there" caricatures.
>
<Rohan has more friends than he lets on>
>see 'em once a fortnight (try building relationships at uni), and we're
>basically acquaintances who roleplay.
You've got to want to build a relationship, dear. I loved my time at college.
>
>> <If Nero's mom were a cockroach, she should have been easily squashed>
>> >but can survive nuclear blasts...
>
>> It's a good thing Nero didn't have the bomb then. Every time he missed he
>> just would have tried again.
>
>the leg peninsula's how big?
Don't know, but it's within swimming distance of the Balkans. And the
Romans had already reached Gaul and Britannia, so there was no shortage
of targets.
>
>> >> ><Caligula>
>> You're related to Caligula too? That is some family tree.
>
>that is sarcasm
That was me being annoying.
>
>> >> <Poop should not float so close to the surface in toilets>
>> It's environmentally sound as it makes it easier for any copraphagus
>> species to get nourishment.
>
>at least let them hang around in the sewer then. How gross.
Can't. The alligators will get them there.
>
>> >> >> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like kender>
>> That's why when you see two of them next to armed bodyguards you get
>> a Tas/Sturm visual effect.
>
>they're trained the same as the bodyguards
They're wearing stockings. A good swipe with their own halberd leaves
them incapacitated.
>
>> <Sword and Drizzt: Move over Wulfgar>
>> Sword would not be able to resist a storyline where any lost body part
>> can be regrown in the next chapter.
>
>he'd ignore Dri$$t rather than hack pieces off with a bayonet
He'd jump at the chance to work with Errtu.
>
<Corpses as footstools>
>
>I take it you're not the mystery witness then
I'm quite the mystery, but I've seen higher anthills than that pile.
>
<What the heck would Kit do with a time travelling VW?>
>> Perhaps the time traveling VW backfired on her, and she's now
>> inhabiting the form of an incredibly stupid 5th age dragon.
>
>Malys has the same goals but isn't as smart
Lack of oxygen during the prolonged time travel process may have
killed a few of Kit's brain cells.
>
<Rub a dub dub, Dalamar enjoys the tub>
>
>getting rained on is not the correct shower sensation
He can stand up you know.
>
>> <The guardian won't pass up a chance to dine on fresh meat>
>> I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have you for dinner.
>
>I brought some 'soul food'
LOL. That pun might be enough to drive him away ;-)
>
>> <Caffeine doesn't keep Rohan awake because he's used to it>
<You're not giving me nightmares Koalataur, yet>
>
>you'll find me in your bathtub then
Will that give me a nightmare? It depends -- are you in there with Dalamar?
>
<Most times justice is a deal between opposing attorneys.>
>
>that's a good one as well. One of the biggest crooks in Australia got
>off because, while the National Crime Authority can overcome the right
>to silence, any confession is inadmissible. Make up your minds.
Pleading the fifth does discourage forced confessions. But while the
confession in Aussie law cannot be used, it can still provide leads that
can lead to convictions.
>
>> >> >> >> <ID4 example of sexism in the army>
>yeah, let's just lynch the bitches who got us kicked out of paradise
Just for that, I'm never going to offer you a bite of my apple.
>
>> And America always saves the world -- everyone else is just jealous ;-)
>
>here we were prepared. They sent one ship to take out the capital.
>Melbourne and Sydney said it was the other city, and they wouldn't
>believe it was Canberra.
I still don't believe it's Canberra. Talk about your hidden capitals.
>
<ID4 should have had more AF craft at Area 51>
>> That depends if you swallow the plotline of the movie. There were probably
>> little to no surviving AF hardware because they were thrown at the alien in
>> the first wave.
>
>strangely they sent Marines. They later deployed stealth bombers.
All the scenes in the various command bunkers implied that the combined
might of the armed forces was being thrown at the aliens, and the President
probably lost key installations because he waited too late to evacuate.
>
>> <If Warren Beatty becomes President, we're doomed>
>I prefer the way Tom Clancy did it (for once) - a professional public
>servant does a great job and gets handed Veep so he won't have to come
>back again. Then the entire US govt gets wiped out and he's Prez, with
>no dirty deals and actual competence.
Defenders make bad Presidents. Look at Wilson and Carter.
>
>> >> >> >> <Mr. Tolstrup Sr gets the dirty part of caring for Bunsen>
>> >can't take my eyes off of you
>>
>> "I'm just too good to be true." Don't ask me to name the song though.
>
>yeah, I'd better remove that outer layer
You're wearing a parka?
>
>> >> <Profit potential in auctioning off a Koalataur>
>> But don't worry, we'll set a high enough reserve so
>> that only serious bidders need apply.
>
>I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being auctioned...
You don't really think I'd let you fall into the wrong hands, do you?
>
>> >> >smart dracs?
>> In the Doom Brigade, Slith is the guy who points out all of the nuances of
>> a situation to Kang so he can make a good decision. Very
>> real world action there. Gakhan is the epitome of a corporate spy.
>
>next thing they'll be wearing power suits
And be appearing on the cover of Cigar Afficionado.
>
>> >> <Shooting Altie's against the rules>
>> US law guarantees my existence under separation of Church and State.
>
>they'll send their best investigators, the ones who didn't catch Aldrich
>Ames, framed Richard Jewell and let Reagan get shot.
No, I get the muscle guy who looks just like Kevin Smith.
>
>> <The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
>what if he gets the munchies?
That's why he tricked the Irda into letting him out.
>
>> <The Oath just got too complex, similar to right to die issue in the US>
>> >we need 'bye bye boutiques'
>suicide's a personal decision. Nothing wrong with 'medical assist'
>assuming it's voluntary and less traumatic than eating a bullet.
Agreed. But think of all the scheming relatives that would be put out by
such a law -- beneficiaries don't get squat if the insured person suicides.
>
>> <Unlike the LoS, knights like Linsha believe working undercover is
>> dishonorable>
>
>if the KoS are serious about honour they *will* do whatever it takes.
>Really Linsha's just being egotistical.
Same as Sturm with his moustaches -- if the choice is between fooling
a red dragon and losing hair, you'd think the whiskers would be gone asap.
But going undercover actually saves lives, so I agree that the KoS should
be receptive to it.
>
>> <KoT=KoS=LoS>
>the KoS rules are dumb and outdated. I always saw them as fighting
>guerilla war against the overlords. Their job is to promote good in the
>most efficient way.
But the KoS will always fight "fair" even if it kills them. Even after the
Measure gets rewritten. Anyone who fights by rigid rules will be beat
by the person who breaks them without compunction.
>
>> >> >> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
><shoutin' match>
>> >absolute last resort
>
>they know the problems will threaten them. Unless Gunthar is
>fundamentally stupid he won't be offended at privately being told the
>KoS aren't working hard enough.
Gunthar won't be offended by the suggestion. He'd be offended if the
elves tried to make him do something against his will.
>
<Tanis and Laurana worked together because Tanis isn't a diplomat>
>>
>> He was the guy representing the elves in DoSF, precisely because of
>> his involvement during the attack on Palanthas.
>
>presumably *there* Laurana had better things to do
I'm not saying they didn't work together -- I'm saying Tanis handled the
humans because he understood them better than Laurana.
>
>> <Rohan hasn't worn a suit in years>
<Why I can't wear my suits at work>
<Rohan's casual attire selection>
Business casual means no jeans and T-shirts. I get away with wearing
sneakers because of my accident.
>
<Any woman who knowingly marries Superman or a fireman knows what
she's getting into>
>
>or is a movie chick. Either all those Bond women are sluts, or
>clinically insane for hooking up with him.
The Bond women are one night stand bimbos. There's a difference
between a woman looking to a thrill and one that sticks monogamously
by a man with a difficult career.
>
<Superman is just as normal as Sword>
>
>most men have reasons for what they do and have bad thoughts
Most men don't act on their bad thoughts. Superman included.
>
<Rohan's son: The Cheesemaster>
>> >
>> >I'd kill him first
>>
<No you won't - he's safe in Renton resurrecting the HotL>
>
>seppuku time
You'd be committing parricide -- the act of killing a close relative.
>
>> <It's hard to change things at WotC when fans buy anything>
<Only the long term fans over 20s are likely to live if WoS sucks>
>
>until they become over 20s.
The younger generation may leave when it hits 20 but we can't make
the comparison to our era. AD&D brought most of us into DL.
>
>> <Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
>> >I'll be moving the tines through unresisting heavy objects
>> That's not a nice way to treat part of your Renton assault force.
>
>more where that came from
Morten's unique. And who'll maintain the FAQ if he is gone?
>
<You're an open book, Koalataur>
>> Blood. Guns. Soon to be de-whiskered rats. What else is there?
>
>more guns. And a knife being used as anal lubricant.
And boxing pre-teens. Wanna try that again?
>
<Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.>
>
>Daffy, Sylvester et al can't die. Speedy's just never been up against
>somebody with the right equipment before.
WB is in violation of equal opportunity laws if Speedy bites the dust.
>
<With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
>
>nobody actually knows what he looks like.
Then the whole police station goes with him.
>
>> >> >> <How will you kill a munchkin rat?>
>> >> It's where Sean's whiskers are sacrificed as a burnt offering.
>> >
>> >to who?
>> Bastet, patron goddess of Vee the Cat.
>
>Itchy time
After Vee's done, Itchy will never scratch again.
>
>> >> >> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
<Rohan's going after the reindeer after he finishes Morten>
>Rudolph the red-soaked paindeer had a very bloody nose
Never work. Reindeers fly and travel in bunches. And the elves kick butt.
>
<Rohan's got a death wish>
>>
>> But Charles is so obvious about being a vigilante because he wants to
>> get caught. Killing the postman is asking for a police chase.
>
>or a public service killing
No, that would be the case if you got rid of the taxman.
>
<Rohan shushes his mom and dad makes him feel guilty>
>I've already got enough guilt to kill five kender...
Thought you said your mother was "she who must be obeyed?"
>
<Koalas only eat poop when looney or stressed>
>> >> Koalas only eat their poop when under the influence.
>or they just wanted to munch their own turds
Proves they're looney then. Or they're after the eucalyptus remnants
for an after midnight buzz.
>
<Paranoia is lived, not played.>
>
>Minstr Y LUV reporting live
Any relation to Mother Love, who runs the " Forgive and Forget talk" show?
>
>> <Sean and Vee, together again>
>she can make people speak entirely against their will? It was a major
>fluke that Sean failed that save.
Fluke? Or the cat goddess in action
>
>> <Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
>JODIE FOSTER NUDE!!!!
>- courtesy of Sean Girlsgirlsgirlscheap
An acquired taste, I'm sure, straight from the David Hinkley web page.
>
>> <Getting around Drizzt's obscure death security blanket>
>>
>> The WotC CIA steps in, the body disappears and Drizzt is assumed raised
>> from the dead by Meilikki.
>
>which city hates Renton?
Geneva, Wisconsin?
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <The Hunger>
>> >I prefer calmly pointing out that they're not going anywhere
>>
>> It works, I suppose, but it does raise false hope of eventual release.
>
>I laugh at 'gun to the head' situations
You can't keep it there forever and you're alone. Someone will probably
get away.
>
>> >> >> ><what in the name of **** is the signal?>
>> >aaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh
>>
>> Nice imitation of the Klingon mating call. Trust me, you'll understand
>> the signal the instant that it's sent.
>
>send it already
And what would you do if I did?
>
>> >Sean is sixteen!
>>
>> About the same age as her youngest daughter. Sean may have met his
>> match.
>
>he's tentatively thinking of asking a 14yo to be his Lady Macbeth.
Sean wants to be manipulated and accused of murder?
>
<Enforcing feline discipline with a super soaker>
>
>you're an American. Use a .45 Uzi.
I love my kitty cat.
>
<Rohan's thinking of enlisting>
>dunno if I've got the physical requirements...
Which? Bad eyesight?
>
>> But why study law if you don't want to pursue a legal career? And how
>> would you feel about having to obey an order you don't agree with?
>
>the military has a use for lawyers (although I'm studying legal studies,
>making me a paralegal. I want to get into law BAD). I'd carry out the
>order, assuming I respected the source and couldn't find a loophole.
The military is the only place where disobeying the boss can get you
courtmartialed. But it is a good place to learn discipline.
But since law is what you really want to do, is there anyway you can
intern while you pursue advanced studies? You'll enjoy working that
much more if it's getting you where you want to be.
>
>> >> >> <Essays should not be open book tests>
>> <Altarielle loved writing essays under pressure>
>short answer is probably better
Good compromise.
>
<Keeping Bunsen in line>
>
>just a .38 loaded with blanks
Doesn't that hurt his ears?
>
>> >> >> Good luck this weekend and have fun.
>> >> >
>> >> <Rohan did have fun, and even got, umm, lucky>
>> It's the best way to let those inhibitions out without getting drunk ;-).
>
>and I get to kill people
Good psychological practice for the army.
<Lame duck Clinton is not supporting Gore's presidential campaign>
>he should've let Gore be The Hero of East Timor.
Gore is Dan Quayle waiting to happen. He would have found a way to
botch a PR coup like E. Timor.
>
<Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
>
>the definitions are screwed. Often the Prez gets to define things. And
>impeaching Reagan would have been suicide.
But the worst depredations are kept under control. The US economy stayed
sound and the sovereignty of the country was undisputed.
>
<Rohan's cop shows are letting him down again>
> Why are those boyscouts incapable of guile?
Because they didn't earn Stalker merit badges?
BTW, do any of these shows star Erik Thomson?
Tolstrup
>
> Rohan Tolstrup wrote:
>
> << Simply put, saying Chronicles is capable of error
> does serious damage to Dragonlance. >>
>
> An omnicient narrator tells us in 'Dragons of Spring Dawning' that Marquesta
> Kar-Thon engages in piracy against ships sailing out of *Tarsis*.
typo that doesn't change anything. What about Tanis killing the only
man who could have threatened Raistlin?
> I'm saying Chronicles is capable of error. CHRONICLES itself says it's capable
> of error.
obviously major error has to be considered. Typos don't count.
> How exactly is Dragonlance seriously damaged? Or are you picking and choosing
> what you define as True?
everything derives from Chronicles. Chronicles must be reliable in
order for it to be the actual experiences of the characters and not a
Soulforge written fifty years later in-world.
> << what is needed with Ariakas is AD&D stats for him *as a mage* - it's
> never been clear what the hell his level was. >>
>
> Why?
it's key to determining what the hell Raistlin was talking about, and a
'high level Verminaard' would be redundant. I'd run him as a mage for
variety's sake.
> << The vast majority of
> other material is therefore wrong, because it goes against the most
> fundamental source of canon there is, DL's spiritual lifeblood. >>
>
> The same source that says Marquesta raids ships from Tarsis?
typo
> You know, there IS no 'fundemantal source of canon.' All there is are writers
> and editors making decisions based on what they think is the best path to
> follow.
in-world the case is different
> If you've found yourself in repeated disagreement with the path taken by this
> author or that game designer, don't buy material bearing the names of those
> particular writers. (Heck, that's why although the corporate drone in my would
> LOVE everyone to purchase anythign with a DL logo on it, the guy who used to
> write the stuff says that this is a bad idea.)
when a canon violation has been accepted as official, what the hell else
can I do? Unless 'then, Palin woke up' it's impossible to disregard
crap like EotM.
Rohan Tolstrup
Tolstrup
> >he ignored both versions and only went with the module
> He kept the game line consistent. Granted, people who want to
> roleplay Ariakas as a mage might have liked some stats, but DLC15A
> just doesn't ruin the novels for me.
the game line and novels should be consistent. If he's going with
Emperor of Ansalon he includes the habit Ariakas' mistresses have of
carking it.
> >> <Continuity errors spoil a reader's bond with a character>
>
<Raistlin, ridiculously underpowered theory wizard>
> If emotion is what drives the discovery of 5th age sorcery, then an
> angry young man like Raistlin would have made this discovery when
> he saw Caramon doing the nasty with Miranda. You can probably
> count the number of times that someone discovers the new magic
> via a scientific method on the fingers of your left hand.
we're talking about the most disciplined man on the planet
> >> <LA thinks it has only earthquakes to worry about.>
> >it's the closest and South Central's a good place to equip
>
> You like do live dangerously, don't you?
I can only fit so much ammo in the shielded compartment. And it takes
time for the container ship to arrive.
> >> <It's easier to nuke Melbourne from above than below>
> >> If the Pentagon will go for it, we can always run a test to find out.
> >
> >they might have reservations...
>
> For dinner at 8? No, they'd jump at the chance and say oops after.
would you believe Eisenhower was least likely to push the button?
> >> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
> >yep. Makes sense to have a 'god of the gods' who takes care of abstract
> >things like erosion of the crystal sphere.
>
> Putting it back in a High God/DL perspective -- wouldn't Raistlin becoming
> a figurative black hole indicate an erosion of the crystal sphere that would
> merit the god's involvement?
it would've stabilised. Raist gets to be god of a dead world. HG cares
more about the physical integrity
> >> >> <Sean was persuaded to blab with the werewolves>
> >not really. He was totally humiliated and feels defiled. It was done
> >by a vampire at that. Also it may have screwed up his working rels...
> Sounds like Jerry Springer material to me.
Sean would not go there without an autoshotgun
> >Sean's more like Cancer Man than anything else. He wrote Soulforge,
> >subliminals and all.
>
> That explains the coda. It was really directed at Fox Mulder.
at millions of DL fans who'd be hypnotised into thinking it was the best
book they'd ever read.
> >> <Aussie government is tipping the balance in favor of longevity>
> >screws with the constitutional balance, and concentrates symbolic
> >authority in their hands.
> I'm not up on my parliamentary government practices, but I would
> imagine that the no-confidence vote is still intact and can be used to
> dissolve parliament.
why would the party in government vote against itself? The process
exists if a rash of byelections change the majority. An independent
changed sides in Queensland and government changed.
> <Altie likes cookies and cream, not cookies and coke>
> >> >what do you think they put in oreos?
> >coca, cocoa, whatever
> That's in the soft drink.
powder's powder.
> >> <The Feds can track email, eventually>
> >why spam the Prez when I can shitbomb the Rose Garden w/ an ultralight?
> Because that leaves eyewitnesses.
I didn't say I'd be flying it
> <Sean as Raistlin?>
> >he's updated for the nineties and it's more angst-related
> Can't be. Raistlin was frustrated sexually and Sean isn't.
last time, he got drunk at a Fianna moot and ended up with a couple of
Satyrs (evidently there are females). Quote of the night was 'hey, that
fairy's about the size of my Rodens form.' Last time he *remembers*
getting 'lucky' was when he somehow tricked a vampire into believing he
was an alternate world assassin.
> <Whisker collection plan>
> >
> >say hi to a Minimi light machinegun
>
> You have to get to it first, and I am holding the knife Simon loaned me.
which is why I've got a Glock Compact on my belt
> >> What else do you want besides additions to your arsenal?
> >
> >money is always nice
> but liquor is quicker, as the saying goes.
haven't had a drink since the Drunkosaur incident
> >> >I believe in co-ed scouts and the Orgy badge
> >I may be forced to sue you if you keep saying that
>
> Why? Because I'm implying that you're a polite young man?
ever heard of whitemailing? It's an Anti-Crime, up there with Breaking
and Decorating.
> >> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were extinct
> >> by the 1st century because they were so effective.
> >
> >overuse? I understand the Hippocratic oath forbade abortion on the
> >grounds that then it was highly unsafe for the woman.
> Exactly. The plants functioned as a "morning after" type drug.
seeing as I heard something about snake dung... surely they could've
conserved their resources.
> >> <Kit's amazing STD survival rate is due to gnome cloning efforts>
> <That means Kit would get younger at intervals>
> >we're talking a monthly service. Certainly as often as possible
> Depends on where the things are kept. Since Krynnish dragons don't
> jump between like their Pernish cousins, it would take quite a while for
> word to get to the gnomes and for the gnomes to complete the process.
franchises all over Ansalon?
> >> <Bertrem is being blessed by Gilean one way or another>
> >DoSF was a prank?
>
> A diversion to fool Chaos and get him away from Krynn.
one hombre I wouldn't **** with
> >> Perhaps Bertrem is Lunitari's half brother then, and Dez sees him as he
> >> truly is. How romantic.
> >
> >pass the AK
>
> I thought you said you were sensitive.
sensitivity encompasses more than just being a wet blanket
> <Altie prefers Python to Atkinson>
> >whatever. You actually think of Atkinson as the character.
> Tracy Ullman's good at that. I liked Python because their characters
> were "out-there" caricatures.
Holy Grail and Life of Brian require a certain perspective...
> <Rohan has more friends than he lets on>
> >see 'em once a fortnight (try building relationships at uni), and we're
> >basically acquaintances who roleplay.
>
> You've got to want to build a relationship, dear. I loved my time at college.
I see people for a semester
> >> <If Nero's mom were a cockroach, she should have been easily squashed>
> >> >but can survive nuclear blasts...
> >the leg peninsula's how big?
>
> Don't know, but it's within swimming distance of the Balkans. And the
> Romans had already reached Gaul and Britannia, so there was no shortage
> of targets.
I understand their economy ran on conquest
> >> >> ><Caligula>
> >> You're related to Caligula too? That is some family tree.
> >
> >that is sarcasm
>
> That was me being annoying.
this is my vintage Webley .455
> >> >> <Poop should not float so close to the surface in toilets>
> >at least let them hang around in the sewer then. How gross.
>
> Can't. The alligators will get them there.
kevlar speedos then
> >> >> >> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like kender>
> >they're trained the same as the bodyguards
>
> They're wearing stockings. A good swipe with their own halberd leaves
> them incapacitated.
they presumably know how to dodge. Great Tom Clancy scene with a theme
park 'Roman legionary' opening the can on a terrorist with an Uzi, armed
himself with a sword and iron-bossed shield.
> >> <Sword and Drizzt: Move over Wulfgar>
> >> Sword would not be able to resist a storyline where any lost body part
> >> can be regrown in the next chapter.
> >
> >he'd ignore Dri$$t rather than hack pieces off with a bayonet
>
> He'd jump at the chance to work with Errtu.
he's forsaken, not suicidal
> <Corpses as footstools>
> >I take it you're not the mystery witness then
> I'm quite the mystery, but I've seen higher anthills than that pile.
what do you think I do with the bodies?
> <What the heck would Kit do with a time travelling VW?>
> >> Perhaps the time traveling VW backfired on her, and she's now
> >> inhabiting the form of an incredibly stupid 5th age dragon.
> >
> >Malys has the same goals but isn't as smart
>
> Lack of oxygen during the prolonged time travel process may have
> killed a few of Kit's brain cells.
it was all that time in the coffin after she faked her death
> <Rub a dub dub, Dalamar enjoys the tub>
> >
> >getting rained on is not the correct shower sensation
> He can stand up you know.
but then we don't get the death chamber experience
> >> <The guardian won't pass up a chance to dine on fresh meat>
> >> I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have you for dinner.
> >
> >I brought some 'soul food'
>
> LOL. That pun might be enough to drive him away ;-)
or the .454 Casull blessed silver hollowpoints might...
> >> <Caffeine doesn't keep Rohan awake because he's used to it>
> <You're not giving me nightmares Koalataur, yet>
> >you'll find me in your bathtub then
> Will that give me a nightmare? It depends -- are you in there with Dalamar?
he's trying to figure out the map
> <Most times justice is a deal between opposing attorneys.>
<right to silence or not?>
> Pleading the fifth does discourage forced confessions. But while the
> confession in Aussie law cannot be used, it can still provide leads that
> can lead to convictions.
ridiculous, isn't it? The object is to determine guilt.
> >> >> >> >> <ID4 example of sexism in the army>
> >yeah, let's just lynch the bitches who got us kicked out of paradise
> Just for that, I'm never going to offer you a bite of my apple.
er, I've got the quotation reference for that here somewhere...
> >> And America always saves the world -- everyone else is just jealous ;-)
> >here we were prepared. They sent one ship to take out the capital.
> >Melbourne and Sydney said it was the other city, and they wouldn't
> >believe it was Canberra.
> I still don't believe it's Canberra. Talk about your hidden capitals.
they needed a compromise bw Melbourne and Sydney. Of course, the
Federal Parlt sat in Melbourne while Canberra was being built :).
Basically 10% DC
> <ID4 should have had more AF craft at Area 51>
> >strangely they sent Marines. They later deployed stealth bombers.
>
> All the scenes in the various command bunkers implied that the combined
> might of the armed forces was being thrown at the aliens, and the President
> probably lost key installations because he waited too late to evacuate.
how'd he become Prez anyway? He must have gone straight into the
election race from the military, where he was maybe a Colonel.
> >> <If Warren Beatty becomes President, we're doomed>
> >I prefer the way Tom Clancy did it (for once) - a professional public
> >servant does a great job and gets handed Veep so he won't have to come
> >back again. Then the entire US govt gets wiped out and he's Prez, with
> >no dirty deals and actual competence.
> Defenders make bad Presidents. Look at Wilson and Carter.
Carter was a joke who thought he could handle foreign policy
> >> >> >> >> <Mr. Tolstrup Sr gets the dirty part of caring for Bunsen>
> >> "I'm just too good to be true." Don't ask me to name the song though.
> >
> >yeah, I'd better remove that outer layer
>
> You're wearing a parka?
no. I must find out what lurks beneath your exterior. Pass the veggie
peeler.
> >> >> <Profit potential in auctioning off a Koalataur>
> >I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being auctioned...
>
> You don't really think I'd let you fall into the wrong hands, do you?
is this a trick question?
> >> >> >smart dracs?
> >next thing they'll be wearing power suits
>
> And be appearing on the cover of Cigar Afficionado.
beats a succession of white men I guess
> >> >> <Shooting Altie's against the rules>
> >> US law guarantees my existence under separation of Church and State.
> >
> >they'll send their best investigators, the ones who didn't catch Aldrich
> >Ames, framed Richard Jewell and let Reagan get shot.
> No, I get the muscle guy who looks just like Kevin Smith.
he shouldn't take much more than a Carl Gustav
> >> <The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
> >what if he gets the munchies?
>
> That's why he tricked the Irda into letting him out.
I would've gone for dwarves. More substantial.
> >suicide's a personal decision. Nothing wrong with 'medical assist'
> >assuming it's voluntary and less traumatic than eating a bullet.
>
> Agreed. But think of all the scheming relatives that would be put out by
> such a law -- beneficiaries don't get squat if the insured person suicides.
either way you can't win
> >> <Unlike the LoS, knights like Linsha believe working undercover is
> >> dishonorable>
> >
> >if the KoS are serious about honour they *will* do whatever it takes.
> >Really Linsha's just being egotistical.
>
> Same as Sturm with his moustaches -- if the choice is between fooling
> a red dragon and losing hair, you'd think the whiskers would be gone asap.
he was just overreacting. He would've done it if there was no
alternative.
> But going undercover actually saves lives, so I agree that the KoS should
> be receptive to it.
what does Linsha actually do?
> >> <KoT=KoS=LoS>
> >the KoS rules are dumb and outdated. I always saw them as fighting
> >guerilla war against the overlords. Their job is to promote good in the
> >most efficient way.
>
> But the KoS will always fight "fair" even if it kills them. Even after the
> Measure gets rewritten. Anyone who fights by rigid rules will be beat
> by the person who breaks them without compunction.
shouldn't be rigid. Discipline is important, doctrine isn't.
> >> >> >> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
> >they know the problems will threaten them. Unless Gunthar is
> >fundamentally stupid he won't be offended at privately being told the
> >KoS aren't working hard enough.
>
> Gunthar won't be offended by the suggestion. He'd be offended if the
> elves tried to make him do something against his will.
it's politics. He needs them just as much
> <Tanis and Laurana worked together because Tanis isn't a diplomat>
> >>
> >> He was the guy representing the elves in DoSF, precisely because of
> >> his involvement during the attack on Palanthas.
> >
> >presumably *there* Laurana had better things to do
>
> I'm not saying they didn't work together -- I'm saying Tanis handled the
> humans because he understood them better than Laurana.
one-off emergency situation
> >> <Rohan hasn't worn a suit in years>
> <Why I can't wear my suits at work>
> <Rohan's casual attire selection>
> Business casual means no jeans and T-shirts. I get away with wearing
> sneakers because of my accident.
so it's slacks and a dressy shirt? Jeans work for me.
> <Any woman who knowingly marries Superman or a fireman knows what
> she's getting into>
> >
> >or is a movie chick. Either all those Bond women are sluts, or
> >clinically insane for hooking up with him.
>
> The Bond women are one night stand bimbos. There's a difference
> between a woman looking to a thrill and one that sticks monogamously
> by a man with a difficult career.
why the hell are both always out to pick up?
> <Superman is just as normal as Sword>
> >most men have reasons for what they do and have bad thoughts
> Most men don't act on their bad thoughts. Superman included.
he's a boyscout. Sword has no compunction against breaking the law.
> <Rohan's son: The Cheesemaster>
> >seppuku time
>
> You'd be committing parricide -- the act of killing a close relative.
I know I'm related to myself
> >> <It's hard to change things at WotC when fans buy anything>
> <Only the long term fans over 20s are likely to live if WoS sucks>
> >
> >until they become over 20s.
>
> The younger generation may leave when it hits 20 but we can't make
> the comparison to our era. AD&D brought most of us into DL.
and the roleplaying industry has changed for higher standards and more
diversity. A lot of 'em start out on WoD etc.
> >> <Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
> >> >I'll be moving the tines through unresisting heavy objects
> >> That's not a nice way to treat part of your Renton assault force.
> >
> >more where that came from
>
> Morten's unique. And who'll maintain the FAQ if he is gone?
he maintains it now?
> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
> >> Blood. Guns. Soon to be de-whiskered rats. What else is there?
> >
> >more guns. And a knife being used as anal lubricant.
>
> And boxing pre-teens. Wanna try that again?
Bolton says hi
> <Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.>
> >
> >Daffy, Sylvester et al can't die. Speedy's just never been up against
> >somebody with the right equipment before.
>
> WB is in violation of equal opportunity laws if Speedy bites the dust.
affirmative action is not EO. EO would be if Speedy and Daffy had even
chances of getting killed.
> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
> >
> >nobody actually knows what he looks like.
>
> Then the whole police station goes with him.
....which is why he doesn't live there. For some reason the 'superhero'
organisation has a publicly known HQ, but we're talking pretty paranoid
security. He is actually officially a Detective Senior Sergeant.
> >> >> >> <How will you kill a munchkin rat?>
<sacrifice to whom?>
> >> Bastet, patron goddess of Vee the Cat.
> >
> >Itchy time
>
> After Vee's done, Itchy will never scratch again.
Guenhwyvar would have difficulty with Itchy.
> >> >> >> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
> <Rohan's going after the reindeer after he finishes Morten>
> >Rudolph the red-soaked paindeer had a very bloody nose
>
> Never work. Reindeers fly and travel in bunches. And the elves kick butt.
full auto with my M60
> <Rohan's got a death wish>
> >>
> >> But Charles is so obvious about being a vigilante because he wants to
> >> get caught. Killing the postman is asking for a police chase.
> >
> >or a public service killing
>
> No, that would be the case if you got rid of the taxman.
how else can we get them to deliver on weekends?
> <Rohan shushes his mom and dad makes him feel guilty>
>
> >I've already got enough guilt to kill five kender...
>
> Thought you said your mother was "she who must be obeyed?"
talk to the hand. That's where the relevant personality is.
> <Koalas only eat poop when looney or stressed>
> >> >> Koalas only eat their poop when under the influence.
>
> >or they just wanted to munch their own turds
>
> Proves they're looney then. Or they're after the eucalyptus remnants
> for an after midnight buzz.
I just put the leftover pizza in the fridge
> <Paranoia is lived, not played.>
> >
> >Minstr Y LUV reporting live
>
> Any relation to Mother Love, who runs the " Forgive and Forget talk" show?
was she in 1984?
> >> <Sean and Vee, together again>
> >she can make people speak entirely against their will? It was a major
> >fluke that Sean failed that save.
>
> Fluke? Or the cat goddess in action
in a rats vs dogs situation, she'd side with the rat.
> >> <Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
> >JODIE FOSTER NUDE!!!!
> >- courtesy of Sean Girlsgirlsgirlscheap
> An acquired taste, I'm sure, straight from the David Hinkley web page.
he's still chasing her? Can't she just ring him?
> >> <Getting around Drizzt's obscure death security blanket>
> >which city hates Renton?
> Geneva, Wisconsin?
I can chuck him out of a plane there. Well, my thugs can.
> >I laugh at 'gun to the head' situations
>
> You can't keep it there forever and you're alone. Someone will probably
> get away.
if you're under the gun and you've got a hostage and a pistol, sorry but
you're screwed.
> >> >> >> ><what in the name of **** is the signal?>
> >send it already
>
> And what would you do if I did?
hopefully the signal specifies
> >> >Sean is sixteen!
> >> About the same age as her youngest daughter. Sean may have met his
> >> match.
> >he's tentatively thinking of asking a 14yo to be his Lady Macbeth.
> Sean wants to be manipulated and accused of murder?
he needs a partner in crime
> <Enforcing feline discipline with a super soaker>
> >
> >you're an American. Use a .45 Uzi.
>
> I love my kitty cat.
teach her to dance
> <Rohan's thinking of enlisting>
>
> >dunno if I've got the physical requirements...
>
> Which? Bad eyesight?
I'm a roleplayer
> >> But why study law if you don't want to pursue a legal career? And how
> >> would you feel about having to obey an order you don't agree with?
> >
> >the military has a use for lawyers (although I'm studying legal studies,
> >making me a paralegal. I want to get into law BAD). I'd carry out the
> >order, assuming I respected the source and couldn't find a loophole.
>
> The military is the only place where disobeying the boss can get you
> courtmartialed. But it is a good place to learn discipline.
not so different from other jobs
> But since law is what you really want to do, is there anyway you can
> intern while you pursue advanced studies? You'll enjoy working that
> much more if it's getting you where you want to be.
I *wanted* to do law. What do I want now? But yep, part time all right
> >> >> >> <Essays should not be open book tests>
> >> <Altarielle loved writing essays under pressure>
> >short answer is probably better
>
> Good compromise.
better for sanity
> <Keeping Bunsen in line>
> >
> >just a .38 loaded with blanks
>
> Doesn't that hurt his ears?
not as much as live ammo
> >> It's the best way to let those inhibitions out without getting drunk ;-).
> >
> >and I get to kill people
>
> Good psychological practice for the army.
the point is NOT to kill people of course...
> <Lame duck Clinton is not supporting Gore's presidential campaign>
> >he should've let Gore be The Hero of East Timor.
> Gore is Dan Quayle waiting to happen. He would have found a way to
> botch a PR coup like E. Timor.
if led by the hand?
> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
> >the definitions are screwed. Often the Prez gets to define things. And
> >impeaching Reagan would have been suicide.
>
> But the worst depredations are kept under control. The US economy stayed
> sound and the sovereignty of the country was undisputed.
still a serious international incident
> <Rohan's cop shows are letting him down again>
>
> > Why are those boyscouts incapable of guile?
>
> Because they didn't earn Stalker merit badges?
problem is, cops IRL certainly know how to be corrupt. It's common for
them to play silly buggers with legalities. I personally could've come
up with a decent excuse.
> BTW, do any of these shows star Erik Thomson?
nah. You'll probably hear about Lisa McCune at some stage, and Peter
Phelps and Anita Hegh are obviously on the publicity fasttrack.
Oh well, time to take that gun off Simon. I've been on the computer for
over an hour.
Rohan "yo, bitch" Tolstrup, pornographer, anarchist, enemy of God
(depending on whom you ask)
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
>> >> <Steve cherrypicked existing works when writing DL Classics>
<the game line and novels should be consistent.>
They should be, but they're not, and it looks like the Brand Manager
concept at WotC hasn't taken off to the point where the books and the
games are managed as wholly complimentary products. If a new novel
had presented Ariakas as a cleric, it would bother me more.
>
><Raistlin, ridiculously underpowered theory wizard>
<If emotions trigger 5th age magic, Raist should have found it long ago.>
>we're talking about the most disciplined man on the planet
*Man* is the operative word. Growing up, Raistlin was vengeful and angry.
Other novels have less powerful characters discovering mysticism and
sorcery when they're in extremis. By comparison, the kid who'd grow up
to almost defeat the gods should have blown to bits at least one of the
bullies who gave him a bloody nose when Caramon wasn't looking.
>
>> >> <LA thinks it has only earthquakes to worry about.>
>I can only fit so much ammo in the shielded compartment. And it takes
>time for the container ship to arrive.
You don't know what you're getting into. They're not roleplaying out there.
They're living it.
>
>> >> <It's easier to nuke Melbourne from above than below>
>> For dinner at 8? No, they'd jump at the chance and say oops after.
>
>would you believe Eisenhower was least likely to push the button?
Make Guiliani president, and Melbourne is no more.
>
>> >> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
>> Putting it back in a High God/DL perspective -- wouldn't Raistlin
>> becoming a figurative black hole indicate an erosion of the crystal
>> sphere that would merit the god's involvement?
>
>it would've stabilised. Raist gets to be god of a dead world. HG cares
>more about the physical integrity
Somehow the "dark god Raist" scenes in Time of the Twins always implied
to me that Raistlin would eventually devour the universe in his hunger.
>
>> >> >> <Sean was persuaded to blab with the werewolves>
>> Sounds like Jerry Springer material to me.
>
>Sean would not go there without an autoshotgun
Jerry will do anything for ratings.
>
<Who was the Soulforge coda directed at?>
>at millions of DL fans who'd be hypnotised into thinking it was the best
>book they'd ever read.
Margaret's writing is what does that. Astinus has an Aesop role in SF.
He gives the story an in-world panache.
>
>> >> <Aussie government is tipping the balance in favor of longevity>
>why would the party in government vote against itself?
Because politicians being what they are, they'd force a change when a
leader weakens in order to take a stab at the top seat themselves.
>
> >> <The Feds can track email, eventually>
>> >why spam the Prez when I can shitbomb the Rose Garden w/ an ultralight?
>> Because that leaves eyewitnesses.
>I didn't say I'd be flying it
>
>> <Sean as Raistlin?>
>> >he's updated for the nineties and it's more angst-related
>> Can't be. Raistlin was frustrated sexually and Sean isn't.
<Sean not only has sex, it's kinky sex>
That only proves my point. Raistlin's sexual experience stands maybe at
one, two at the most.
>
>> <Whisker collection plan>
>> You have to get to it first, and I am holding the knife Simon loaned me.
>
>which is why I've got a Glock Compact on my belt
You thought you did. You'd never get past the first landing with it.
>
>> >> What else do you want besides additions to your arsenal?
>> >money is always nice
>> but liquor is quicker, as the saying goes.
>
>haven't had a drink since the Drunkosaur incident
The drunkosaur's not extinct, he's just hybernating.
>
>> >> >I believe in co-ed scouts and the Orgy badge
>> >I may be forced to sue you if you keep saying that
>>
>> Why? Because I'm implying that you're a polite young man?
>
>ever heard of whitemailing? It's an Anti-Crime, up there with Breaking
>and Decorating.
I'm not taking the heat for your bedroom color scheme. And Judge Judy
(mature and legal beagle -- your type!) would never rule against me.
>
>> >> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were extinct
>> >> by the 1st century because they were so effective.
>seeing as I heard something about snake dung... surely they could've
>conserved their resources.
The plant was considered riskless and 100% effective, and was apparently
indigenous only to Cyprus. It could be that the knowledge on how to
cultivate died out when the goddess priestess did.
>
>> >> <Kit's amazing STD survival rate is due to gnome cloning efforts>
>> <That means Kit would get younger at intervals>
>franchises all over Ansalon?
We'd be seeing Verminaard and Ariakas in spurts then as well. Maybe
Ariakas as a cleric was a defective clone?
>> >DoSF was a prank?
>>
>> A diversion to fool Chaos and get him away from Krynn.
>
>one hombre I wouldn't **** with
They did before. For some reason, Chaos thinks his kids are honorable.
>
>> >> Perhaps Bertrem is Lunitari's half brother then, and Dez sees him as he
>> >> truly is. How romantic.
>> >
>> >pass the AK
>>
>> I thought you said you were sensitive.
>
>sensitivity encompasses more than just being a wet blanket
:-P It's a tragic princess and the frog deal -- a young godling encased in
Bertrem's body, and only Dez can see past the ancient exterior.
>
>> <Altie prefers Python to Atkinson>
>Holy Grail and Life of Brian require a certain perspective...
Life of Brian is a great send up of religion. What I don't like about it
was the space ship scene.
>
>> <Rohan has more friends than he lets on>
>> You've got to want to build a relationship, dear. I loved my time at
>college.
>
>I see people for a semester
But I always saw the same crowd because of my major. After I'd made
my core group of friends, we scheduled our classes to coincide.
>
>> >> <If Nero's mom were a cockroach, she should have been easily squashed>
>> >> >but can survive nuclear blasts...
>> >the leg peninsula's how big?
>>
>> Don't know, but it's within swimming distance of the Balkans. And the
>> Romans had already reached Gaul and Britannia, so there was no shortage
>> of targets.
>
>I understand their economy ran on conquest
Vespasian and the others saved the Empire from collapse. Nero was the
last of the Julio-Claudians and the Treasury hung by a thread.
>
>> >> >> ><Caligula>
>> >that is sarcasm
>>
>> That was me being annoying.
>
>this is my vintage Webley .455
How nice, but I would have preferred the pink roses.
>
>> >> >> <Poop should not float so close to the surface in toilets>
>> >at least let them hang around in the sewer then. How gross.
>>
>> Can't. The alligators will get them there.
>
>kevlar speedos then
Okay -- that means that after the alligators are done, the sewers will be
flooded with the bottom half of the koalas.
>
>> >> >> >> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like
>kender>
>they presumably know how to dodge.
Hard to dodge a bullet to the kneecap.
>Great Tom Clancy scene with a theme
>park 'Roman legionary' opening the can on a terrorist with an Uzi, armed
>himself with a sword and iron-bossed shield.
But Clancy left out the fact that the armor was basically tin foil.
>
>> >> <Sword and Drizzt: Move over Wulfgar>
>> He'd jump at the chance to work with Errtu.
>
>he's forsaken, not suicidal
Errtu may not give him a choice then.
>
>> <Corpses as footstools>
>> >I take it you're not the mystery witness then
>> I'm quite the mystery, but I've seen higher anthills than that pile.
>
>what do you think I do with the bodies?
What a loaded question.
>
<Time Travelling accident turns Kit into Malys>
>> >Malys has the same goals but isn't as smart
>>
>> Lack of oxygen during the prolonged time travel process may have
>> killed a few of Kit's brain cells.
>
>it was all that time in the coffin after she faked her death
>
>> <Rub a dub dub, Dalamar enjoys the tub>
>> >getting rained on is not the correct shower sensation
>> He can stand up you know.
>
>but then we don't get the death chamber experience
Only someone who doesn't have a tub would go for a death experience.
>
>> >> <The guardian won't pass up a chance to dine on fresh meat>
>> >I brought some 'soul food'
>>
>> LOL. That pun might be enough to drive him away ;-)
>
>or the .454 Casull blessed silver hollowpoints might...
They're not vampires. Bullets won't even drive away Casper.
>
>> <You're not giving me nightmares Koalataur, yet>
>> >you'll find me in your bathtub then
>> Will that give me a nightmare? It depends -- are you in there with Dalamar?
>
>he's trying to figure out the map
If you're in there by yourself, it'll be more gigglefest than nightmare.
>
>> <Most times justice is a deal between opposing attorneys.>
><right to silence or not?>
>
>ridiculous, isn't it? The object is to determine guilt.
Yep. It's too roundabout a way to look for leads, and why listen to
something you can't use?
>
<No apples for you, Rohan>
>
<How many people even know Canberra is the capital of Australia?>
>
>they needed a compromise bw Melbourne and Sydney. Of course, the
>Federal Parlt sat in Melbourne while Canberra was being built :).
Cityp pride. How cute.
>Basically 10% DC
DC is an okay capital. I was never much for the monuments, but I like
going to the Smithsonian. They've closed the FBI HQ to visitors now.
>
<How'd the Prez in ID4 get elected anyway?>
>
>He must have gone straight into the election race from the military,
>where he was maybe a Colonel.
They were going for a Powell or Schwarzkopf aura and forgot that both
those men were generals that did not see combat in the Gulf.
>
<Tom Clancy wrote about a guy who became Prez without dirty dealing>
>> Defenders make bad Presidents. Look at Wilson and Carter.
>
>Carter was a joke who thought he could handle foreign policy
And for foreign policy you do need to be able to make "ends justify the
means" type decisions. That's why the nice guy finishes last.
>
<"I'm just too good to be true." >
>> >
>> >yeah, I'd better remove that outer layer
>>
>> You're wearing a parka?
>
>no. I must find out what lurks beneath your exterior. Pass the veggie
>peeler.
It'll take more than a veggie peeler to get me to strip, Koalataur.
>
>> >> >> <Profit potential in auctioning off a Koalataur>
>> >I'm not sure I'm comfortable with being auctioned...
>>
>> You don't really think I'd let you fall into the wrong hands, do you?
>
>is this a trick question?
You don't trust me? <sniffle>
>
>> >> >> >smart dracs?
>> >next thing they'll be wearing power suits
>>
>> And be appearing on the cover of Cigar Afficionado.
>
>beats a succession of white men I guess
I can see Kit on the cover.
>
>> >> >> <Shooting Altie's against the rules>
>> >> US law guarantees my existence under separation of Church and State.
<Kevin Smith gets to protect my civil liberties. Yum>
>
>he shouldn't take much more than a Carl Gustav
If Kevin Smith is on the case, then it'd be in my best interests to keep the
case open as long as possible.
>
>> >> <The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
>> >what if he gets the munchies?
>>
>> That's why he tricked the Irda into letting him out.
>
>I would've gone for dwarves. More substantial.
Or kender to satisfy the sugar craving.
>
<Legal or no, suicide is a no win proposition>
>
>> >> <Unlike the LoS, knights like Linsha believe working undercover is
>> >> dishonorable>
>> Same as Sturm with his moustaches -- if the choice is between fooling
>> a red dragon and losing hair, you'd think the whiskers would be gone asap.
>
>he was just overreacting. He would've done it if there was no
>alternative.
It was a great risk. At that point they didn't know just how addled Matafleur
really was.
>
>> But going undercover actually saves lives, so I agree that the KoS should
>> be receptive to it.
>
>what does Linsha actually do?
She's disguised as streetwise sell sword and is trying to figure out what
Hogan's agenda. Linsha's attracted to a guy she thinks is redeemable,
so lying to him about being a guttersnipe is bogging down her conscience.
>
>> >> <KoT=KoS=LoS>
>> But the KoS will always fight "fair" even if it kills them. Even after the
>> Measure gets rewritten. Anyone who fights by rigid rules will be beat
>> by the person who breaks them without compunction.
>
>shouldn't be rigid. Discipline is important, doctrine isn't.
Agreed. But for some reason, the KoS are portrayed more like Jesuits
than Knights Templar.
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
>> Gunthar won't be offended by the suggestion. He'd be offended if the
>> elves tried to make him do something against his will.
>
>it's politics. He needs them just as much
Not really. The KoT was knocking on the elven doors. Protecting the
elves just adds to Gunthar's burden.
>
>> <Tanis and Laurana worked together because Tanis isn't a diplomat>
>> I'm not saying they didn't work together -- I'm saying Tanis handled the
>> humans because he understood them better than Laurana.
>
>one-off emergency situation
IMO, the elves still haven't gotten over Tanis being a half elven bastard, HotL
or no. Porthios is still ambivalent about it in the Puppet King. Laurana is
still part of the royal family and would be more acceptable to the elven court.
>
>> >> <Rohan hasn't worn a suit in years>
>> <Why I can't wear my suits at work>
>> <Rohan's casual attire selection>
>so it's slacks and a dressy shirt? Jeans work for me.
Yep. It's usually jeans for me out of work as well.
>
>> <Any woman who knowingly marries Superman or a fireman knows what
>> she's getting into>
>> >
<Bond women are one night stand bimbos so they don't fit the comparison>
>
>why the hell are both always out to pick up?
You've been watching too many shows written by Stephen Bochco.
>
>> <Superman is just as normal as Sword>
>he's a boyscout. Sword has no compunction against breaking the law.
Lots of normal men have compunctions against breaking the law.
>
>> <Rohan's son: The Cheesemaster>
>> You'd be committing parricide -- the act of killing a close relative.
>
>I know I'm related to myself
The DNA sample says the The Cheesemaster is yours.
>
>> <Only the long term fans over 20s are likely to live if WoS sucks>
>> The younger generation may leave when it hits 20 but we can't make
>> the comparison to our era. AD&D brought most of us into DL.
>
>and the roleplaying industry has changed for higher standards and more
>diversity. A lot of 'em start out on WoD etc.
Eventually interactive computing rpgs will replace pad and paper gaming.
That generation won't care about continuity or anything else, since other
computer adaptation usually don't follow the original source material.
>
>> >> <Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
>> Morten's unique. And who'll maintain the FAQ if he is gone?
>
>he maintains it now?
He did ask you for input the other day.
>
>> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
>> >> Blood. Guns. Soon to be de-whiskered rats. What else is there?
>> >
>> >more guns. And a knife being used as anal lubricant.
>>
>> And boxing pre-teens. Wanna try that again?
>
>Bolton says hi
Who? or What?
>
>> <Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.>
>> WB is in violation of equal opportunity laws if Speedy bites the dust.
>
>affirmative action is not EO. EO would be if Speedy and Daffy had even
>chances of getting killed.
Speedy and Daffy do not have equal shots at resurrection so it is EO.
>
>> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
>> Then the whole police station goes with him.
>
>....which is why he doesn't live there. For some reason the 'superhero'
>organisation has a publicly known HQ, but we're talking pretty paranoid
>security. He is actually officially a Detective Senior Sergeant.
He doesn't have to live there, just be there for a few seconds. And
security was made to be broken.
>
>> >> >> >> <How will you kill a munchkin rat?>
><sacrifice to whom?>
>> >> Bastet, patron goddess of Vee the Cat.
>> >
>> >Itchy time
>>
>> After Vee's done, Itchy will never scratch again.
>
>Guenhwyvar would have difficulty with Itchy.
Guen has a Nine Lives Guarantee issued by Salvatore. Itchy will be
scratched.
>
>> >> >> >> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
>> <Rohan's going after the reindeer after he finishes Morten>
>> >Rudolph the red-soaked paindeer had a very bloody nose
>>
>> Never work. Reindeers fly and travel in bunches. And the elves kick butt.
>
>full auto with my M60
There'll be coal in your stocking this Christmas.
>
>> <Rohan's got a death wish>
>> >>
>> >> But Charles is so obvious about being a vigilante because he wants to
>> >> get caught. Killing the postman is asking for a police chase.
>> >
>> >or a public service killing
>>
>> No, that would be the case if you got rid of the taxman.
>
>how else can we get them to deliver on weekends?
I can live without weekend mail. It just means I get bills earlier.
>
>> <Rohan shushes his mom and dad makes him feel guilty>
>talk to the hand. That's where the relevant personality is.
Anyone who offers me a hand in conversation gets a finger in response.
>
>> <Koalas only eat poop when looney or stressed>
>> >> >> Koalas only eat their poop when under the influence.
>> Proves they're looney then. Or they're after the eucalyptus remnants
>> for an after midnight buzz.
>
>I just put the leftover pizza in the fridge
Left over pizza gives one the runs instead of a buzz.
>> <Paranoia is lived, not played.>
>> >
>> >Minstr Y LUV reporting live
>>
>> Any relation to Mother Love, who runs the " Forgive and Forget talk" show?
>
>was she in 1984?
I'd forgotten my Orwell. No, she's an insipid woman who's show is half Jerry
Springer/half Oprah.
>
>> >> <Sean and Vee, together again>
>> >she can make people speak entirely against their will? It was a major
>> >fluke that Sean failed that save.
>>
>> Fluke? Or the cat goddess in action
>
>in a rats vs dogs situation, she'd side with the rat.
Depends on whether the rat offended her most devout worshipper.
>
>> >> <Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
>> >JODIE FOSTER NUDE!!!!
>> >- courtesy of Sean Girlsgirlsgirlscheap
>> An acquired taste, I'm sure, straight from the David Hinkley web page.
>
>he's still chasing her? Can't she just ring him?
I'm sure she'd like to wring him.
>
>> >I laugh at 'gun to the head' situations
>>
>> You can't keep it there forever and you're alone. Someone will probably
>> get away.
>
>if you're under the gun and you've got a hostage and a pistol, sorry but
>you're screwed.
It assumes that the person under the gun gives a damn about the hostage.
>
>> >> >> >> ><what in the name of **** is the signal?>
>> >send it already
>>
>> And what would you do if I did?
>
>hopefully the signal specifies
Okay. It's sent.
>
>> <Enforcing feline discipline with a super soaker>
>> >
>> >you're an American. Use a .45 Uzi.
>>
>> I love my kitty cat.
>
>teach her to dance
She's better at it than I am.
>
>> <Rohan's thinking of enlisting>
>>
>> >dunno if I've got the physical requirements...
>>
>> Which? Bad eyesight?
>
>I'm a roleplayer
Done in by a BMI of 30 then. Weight is not a permanent barrier.
>
>> The military is the only place where disobeying the boss can get you
>> courtmartialed. But it is a good place to learn discipline.
>
>not so different from other jobs
You can quit your other jobs before you're fired. An enlistment is
indentured servitude.
>> <Keeping Bunsen in line>
>> >
>> >just a .38 loaded with blanks
>>
>> Doesn't that hurt his ears?
>
>not as much as live ammo
Makes the quality of life for your Dad that much better though.
>
>> >> It's the best way to let those inhibitions out without getting drunk
>;-).
>> >
>> >and I get to kill people
>>
>> Good psychological practice for the army.
>
>the point is NOT to kill people of course...
Uh huh. That's why armies exist -- to kill people who might kill other people.
>
>> <Lame duck Clinton is not supporting Gore's presidential campaign>
>> Gore is Dan Quayle waiting to happen. He would have found a way to
>> botch a PR coup like E. Timor.
>
>if led by the hand?
Not a good idea to push a candidate who has to be hand fed.
>
>> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
>> But the worst depredations are kept under control. The US economy stayed
>> sound and the sovereignty of the country was undisputed.
>
>still a serious international incident
If Reagan had fired on China maybe. But no one's taking on the US
over a minor political power.
>
>> <Rohan's cop shows are letting him down again>
>Oh well, time to take that gun off Simon. I've been on the computer for
>over an hour.
>
Minesweeper is incredibly addictive.
Tolstrup
> <the game line and novels should be consistent.>
> They should be, but they're not, and it looks like the Brand Manager
> concept at WotC hasn't taken off to the point where the books and the
> games are managed as wholly complimentary products. If a new novel
> had presented Ariakas as a cleric, it would bother me more.
modules should be presented as playable novels (or do like Birthright
and have them in a different time period). We do after all have the
right to demand more.
> ><Raistlin, ridiculously underpowered theory wizard>
> <If emotions trigger 5th age magic, Raist should have found it long ago.>
> >we're talking about the most disciplined man on the planet
>
> *Man* is the operative word. Growing up, Raistlin was vengeful and angry.
> Other novels have less powerful characters discovering mysticism and
> sorcery when they're in extremis. By comparison, the kid who'd grow up
> to almost defeat the gods should have blown to bits at least one of the
> bullies who gave him a bloody nose when Caramon wasn't looking.
probably the 5A people who screwed up then. I accept that if Raist'd
had that primal magic he would've used it. Were the gods deliberately
repressing it?
> >> >> <LA thinks it has only earthquakes to worry about.>
> >I can only fit so much ammo in the shielded compartment. And it takes
> >time for the container ship to arrive.
> You don't know what you're getting into. They're not roleplaying out there.
> They're living it.
sounds like an interesting lifestyle experience
> >> >> <It's easier to nuke Melbourne from above than below>
> >> For dinner at 8? No, they'd jump at the chance and say oops after.
> >would you believe Eisenhower was least likely to push the button?
> Make Guiliani president, and Melbourne is no more.
what the hell does NYC have against Melbourne? And who the hell will be
Prez come March 4 2001?
> >> >> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
> >it would've stabilised. Raist gets to be god of a dead world. HG cares
> >more about the physical integrity
>
> Somehow the "dark god Raist" scenes in Time of the Twins always implied
> to me that Raistlin would eventually devour the universe in his hunger.
possibly gods operate in different 'power modes.' They might have tried
Highlander style before they realised devotional was healthier.
<Sean shooting up Jerry Springer>
> Jerry will do anything for ratings.
his own execution?
> <Who was the Soulforge coda directed at?>
> >at millions of DL fans who'd be hypnotised into thinking it was the best
> >book they'd ever read.
>
> Margaret's writing is what does that. Astinus has an Aesop role in SF.
> He gives the story an in-world panache.
or somebody found his old 'seal of approval' 50 years later
> >> >> <Aussie government is tipping the balance in favor of longevity>
> >why would the party in government vote against itself?
>
> Because politicians being what they are, they'd force a change when a
> leader weakens in order to take a stab at the top seat themselves.
better to do it within the party. Labor ran last year against Kissinger
policies - significantly set up by their then-deputy leader.
> <Sean not only has sex, it's kinky sex>
> That only proves my point. Raistlin's sexual experience stands maybe at
> one, two at the most.
Raistlin and Sean are both on the fringes. Sean's a 'noble gutter rat.'
> >> <Whisker collection plan>
> >> You have to get to it first, and I am holding the knife Simon loaned me.
> >
> >which is why I've got a Glock Compact on my belt
>
> You thought you did. You'd never get past the first landing with it.
you can't search EVERYWHERE
> >haven't had a drink since the Drunkosaur incident
>
> The drunkosaur's not extinct, he's just hibernating.
crackosaur and shroomosaur sighted nearby
<sue yo ass>
> >> Why? Because I'm implying that you're a polite young man?
> >
> >ever heard of whitemailing? It's an Anti-Crime, up there with Breaking
> >and Decorating.
>
> I'm not taking the heat for your bedroom color scheme. And Judge Judy
> (mature and legal beagle -- your type!) would never rule against me.
<SPEW>
I get to pick the judge
> >> >> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were extinct
> >> >> by the 1st century because they were so effective.
>
> >seeing as I heard something about snake dung... surely they could've
> >conserved their resources.
>
> The plant was considered riskless and 100% effective, and was apparently
> indigenous only to Cyprus. It could be that the knowledge on how to
> cultivate died out when the goddess priestess did.
BASTARDS!!!!!!!!
> >> >> <Kit's amazing STD survival rate is due to gnome cloning efforts>
> >> <That means Kit would get younger at intervals>
> >franchises all over Ansalon?
>
> We'd be seeing Verminaard and Ariakas in spurts then as well. Maybe
> Ariakas as a cleric was a defective clone?
there are obviously three different people claiming to be him
<sucked in, Chaos>
> >one hombre I wouldn't **** with
>
> They did before. For some reason, Chaos thinks his kids are honorable.
<divine conspiracy>
> >sensitivity encompasses more than just being a wet blanket
>
> :-P It's a tragic princess and the frog deal -- a young godling encased in
> Bertrem's body, and only Dez can see past the ancient exterior.
<rack>. Too Python
> >> <Altie prefers Python to Atkinson>
>
> >Holy Grail and Life of Brian require a certain perspective...
> Life of Brian is a great send up of religion. What I don't like about it
> was the space ship scene.
can't remember that bit. But for tasteful religious comedy you can't go
past Oh Jesus!
> >> <Rohan has more friends than he lets on>
> >I see people for a semester
> But I always saw the same crowd because of my major. After I'd made
> my core group of friends, we scheduled our classes to coincide.
Arts. My major's Legal Studies, and everybody who could went into Law.
Factor in weekly tutes and living 15km apart....
<nuke-happy Nero?>
> >I understand their economy ran on conquest
>
> Vespasian and the others saved the Empire from collapse. Nero was the
> last of the Julio-Claudians and the Treasury hung by a thread.
no shit Sherlock
> >> >> >> ><Caligula>
> >> >that is sarcasm
> >>
> >> That was me being annoying.
> >
> >this is my vintage Webley .455
>
> How nice, but I would have preferred the pink roses.
get in the bathtub and that can be arranged
> >> >> >> <Poop should not float so close to the surface in toilets>
> >> >at least let them hang around in the sewer then. How gross.
> >>
> >> Can't. The alligators will get them there.
> >
> >kevlar speedos then
>
> Okay -- that means that after the alligators are done, the sewers will be
> flooded with the bottom half of the koalas.
better go the whole hawg and give 'em drysuits.
> >> >> >> >> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like
> >kender>
> >they presumably know how to dodge.
>
> Hard to dodge a bullet to the kneecap.
you shoot him before he can aim
> >Great Tom Clancy scene with a theme
> >park 'Roman legionary' opening the can on a terrorist with an Uzi, armed
> >himself with a sword and iron-bossed shield.
>
> But Clancy left out the fact that the armor was basically tin foil.
planted an inch or so of solid iron in the way of the Uzi, then used the
surprise factor to hack away with the Spatha. That book got to me
because millionaire industrialists and 'we control your life'
corporations are unequivocally good (uumkay). Also a bunch of yanks
committed a serious crime in Australia and were portrayed as heroes.
> >> >> <Sword and Drizzt: Move over Wulfgar>
> >> He'd jump at the chance to work with Errtu.
> >
> >he's forsaken, not suicidal
>
> Errtu may not give him a choice then.
white phosphorous coming up
> >> <Corpses as footstools>
> >> >I take it you're not the mystery witness then
> >> I'm quite the mystery, but I've seen higher anthills than that pile.
> >
> >what do you think I do with the bodies?
>
> What a loaded question.
hence the enormous anthills
> >> <Rub a dub dub, Dalamar enjoys the tub>
> >> >getting rained on is not the correct shower sensation
> >> He can stand up you know.
> >
> >but then we don't get the death chamber experience
>
> Only someone who doesn't have a tub would go for a death experience.
my granny's beach house used to have a shower-tub about the right size
for an adult in foetal position. Why bother?
> >> >> <The guardian won't pass up a chance to dine on fresh meat>
> >> >I brought some 'soul food'
> >>
> >> LOL. That pun might be enough to drive him away ;-)
> >
> >or the .454 Casull blessed silver hollowpoints might...
>
> They're not vampires. Bullets won't even drive away Casper.
I've got some nude pics of Roseanne (or so my supplier told me)
> >> <You're not giving me nightmares Koalataur, yet>
> If you're in there by yourself, it'll be more gigglefest than nightmare.
that's what you think
> ><right to silence or not?>
> >
> >ridiculous, isn't it? The object is to determine guilt.
>
> Yep. It's too roundabout a way to look for leads, and why listen to
> something you can't use?
also, it ignores the point of the right against self-incrimination
She'll be apples
> <How many people even know Canberra is the capital of Australia?>
> >they needed a compromise bw Melbourne and Sydney. Of course, the
> >Federal Parlt sat in Melbourne while Canberra was being built :).
>
> Cityp pride. How cute.
we're taught Readin' Ritin' Rithmatic and hating Sydney
> >Basically 10% DC
> DC is an okay capital. I was never much for the monuments, but I like
> going to the Smithsonian. They've closed the FBI HQ to visitors now.
sorry. Agree on the Smithsonian, we spent a couple of days there. Dad
used a model of one of the museum pieces there when he was auditing in
his twenties.
> <How'd the Prez in ID4 get elected anyway?>
> >He must have gone straight into the election race from the military,
> >where he was maybe a Colonel.
> They were going for a Powell or Schwarzkopf aura and forgot that both
> those men were generals that did not see combat in the Gulf.
realistically a prez will be at least 45. Der. How the hell did he get
his mitts on the war chest?
> <Tom Clancy wrote about a guy who became Prez without dirty dealing>
> >> Defenders make bad Presidents. Look at Wilson and Carter.
> >Carter was a joke who thought he could handle foreign policy
>
> And for foreign policy you do need to be able to make "ends justify the
> means" type decisions. That's why the nice guy finishes last.
lecturing the Soviets was not a good move
> <"I'm just too good to be true." >
> >> You're wearing a parka?
> >
> >no. I must find out what lurks beneath your exterior. Pass the veggie
> >peeler.
>
> It'll take more than a veggie peeler to get me to strip, Koalataur.
to anaesthatise or not to anaesthatise, that is the question. Sorry,
but by now clothing is on the floor thanks to Mr Scissors.
> >> You don't really think I'd let you fall into the wrong hands, do you?
> >
> >is this a trick question?
>
> You don't trust me? <sniffle>
you're an American. Thanks for the wheat subsidies and lamb quotas.
> >> >> >> >smart dracs?
> >> >next thing they'll be wearing power suits
> >>
> >> And be appearing on the cover of Cigar Afficionado.
> >
> >beats a succession of white men I guess
>
> I can see Kit on the cover.
I thought humidors were meant to be dry and cool
> <Kevin Smith gets to protect my civil liberties. Yum>
> >
> >he shouldn't take much more than a Carl Gustav
>
> If Kevin Smith is on the case, then it'd be in my best interests to keep the
> case open as long as possible.
right now he's on the moon
> >> >> <The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
> >> >what if he gets the munchies?
> >>
> >> That's why he tricked the Irda into letting him out.
> >
> >I would've gone for dwarves. More substantial.
>
> Or kender to satisfy the sugar craving.
do you start with junk food or a square meal?
> >> Same as Sturm with his moustaches -- if the choice is between fooling
> >> a red dragon and losing hair, you'd think the whiskers would be gone asap.
> >
> >he was just overreacting. He would've done it if there was no
> >alternative.
>
> It was a great risk. At that point they didn't know just how addled Matafleur
> really was.
they were able to solve the problem with a scarf. And a couple of 6'
warriors credible as women?
> >what does Linsha actually do?
>
> She's disguised as streetwise sell sword and is trying to figure out what
> Hogan's agenda. Linsha's attracted to a guy she thinks is redeemable,
> so lying to him about being a guttersnipe is bogging down her conscience.
I'd reveal a more sympathetic side. Surely she can reveal certain
information without blowing her cover.
> >shouldn't be rigid. Discipline is important, doctrine isn't.
> Agreed. But for some reason, the KoS are portrayed more like Jesuits
> than Knights Templar.
what the Jesuits actually get up to is anybody's guess
> >> >> >> >> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
> >> Gunthar won't be offended by the suggestion. He'd be offended if the
> >> elves tried to make him do something against his will.
> >
> >it's politics. He needs them just as much
>
> Not really. The KoT was knocking on the elven doors. Protecting the
> elves just adds to Gunthar's burden.
he needs them on-side to be able to ally with the dwarves
> >> <Tanis and Laurana worked together because Tanis isn't a diplomat>
> >> I'm not saying they didn't work together -- I'm saying Tanis handled the
> >> humans because he understood them better than Laurana.
> >
> >one-off emergency situation
>
> IMO, the elves still haven't gotten over Tanis being a half elven bastard, HotL
> or no. Porthios is still ambivalent about it in the Puppet King. Laurana is
> still part of the royal family and would be more acceptable to the elven court.
here Tanis plays a support role then. Who else can she trust as a
personal bodyguard?
> >> >> <Rohan hasn't worn a suit in years>
> >> <Why I can't wear my suits at work>
> >> <Rohan's casual attire selection>
> >so it's slacks and a dressy shirt? Jeans work for me.
> Yep. It's usually jeans for me out of work as well.
what's wrong with jeans around the office?
> <Bond women are one night stand bimbos so they don't fit the comparison>
> >why the hell are both always out to pick up?
> You've been watching too many shows written by Stephen Bochco.
nope. I'm reading the latest Bond novel (third author), and so far he's
scored with the exotic foreign agent within hours of meeting her, and
uncovered a conspiracy that goes to great expense to kill a few people
with sophisticated bioagents.
> >> <Superman is just as normal as Sword>
> >he's a boyscout. Sword has no compunction against breaking the law.
> Lots of normal men have compunctions against breaking the law.
probably never occurs to Supes to be dishonest
> >> <Rohan's son: The Cheesemaster>
> >> You'd be committing parricide -- the act of killing a close relative.
> >
> >I know I'm related to myself
>
> The DNA sample says the The Cheesemaster is yours.
know what seppuku is? You take a wakizashi...
> >> <Only the long term fans over 20s are likely to live if WoS sucks>
> >> The younger generation may leave when it hits 20 but we can't make
> >> the comparison to our era. AD&D brought most of us into DL.
> >
> >and the roleplaying industry has changed for higher standards and more
> >diversity. A lot of 'em start out on WoD etc.
>
> Eventually interactive computing rpgs will replace pad and paper gaming.
> That generation won't care about continuity or anything else, since other
> computer adaptation usually don't follow the original source material.
pass the wakizashi, or do you want to go first?
> >> >> <Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
> >> Morten's unique. And who'll maintain the FAQ if he is gone?
> >
> >he maintains it now?
> He did ask you for input the other day.
that was several weeks ago wasn't it?
> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
> >> >> Blood. Guns. Soon to be de-whiskered rats. What else is there?
> >> >
> >> >more guns. And a knife being used as anal lubricant.
> >>
> >> And boxing pre-teens. Wanna try that again?
> >
> >Bolton says hi
>
> Who? or What?
good that you don't remember the name, as otherwise he'd be paying you a
visit with his .45.
> >> <Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.>
> >> WB is in violation of equal opportunity laws if Speedy bites the dust.
> >
> >affirmative action is not EO. EO would be if Speedy and Daffy had even
> >chances of getting killed.
>
> Speedy and Daffy do not have equal shots at resurrection so it is EO.
greased up small animals devastate Prometheus-like larger animals. Wow.
> >> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
> >> Then the whole police station goes with him.
> >
> >....which is why he doesn't live there. For some reason the 'superhero'
> >organisation has a publicly known HQ, but we're talking pretty paranoid
> >security. He is actually officially a Detective Senior Sergeant.
>
> He doesn't have to live there, just be there for a few seconds. And
> security was made to be broken.
it would be quite difficult to get a bomb near Sword
> >> After Vee's done, Itchy will never scratch again.
> >
> >Guenhwyvar would have difficulty with Itchy.
>
> Guen has a Nine Lives Guarantee issued by Salvatore. Itchy will be
> scratched.
he's survived so far
> >> >> >> >> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
> >> <Rohan's going after the reindeer after he finishes Morten>
> >> >Rudolph the red-soaked paindeer had a very bloody nose
> >>
> >> Never work. Reindeers fly and travel in bunches. And the elves kick butt.
> >
> >full auto with my M60
>
> There'll be coal in your stocking this Christmas.
I've also got photos of Santa getting it on with the Easter Bunny.
> >> <Rohan's got a death wish>
> >> >or a public service killing
> >>
> >> No, that would be the case if you got rid of the taxman.
> >
> >how else can we get them to deliver on weekends?
>
> I can live without weekend mail. It just means I get bills earlier.
the sending deadline being Thursday kinda sucks
> >> <Rohan shushes his mom and dad makes him feel guilty>
> >talk to the hand. That's where the relevant personality is.
>
> Anyone who offers me a hand in conversation gets a finger in response.
that's not very polite
> >> <Koalas only eat poop when looney or stressed>
> >> >> >> Koalas only eat their poop when under the influence.
> >> Proves they're looney then. Or they're after the eucalyptus remnants
> >> for an after midnight buzz.
> >
> >I just put the leftover pizza in the fridge
>
> Left over pizza gives one the runs instead of a buzz.
ever heard of nuking it?
> >> Any relation to Mother Love, who runs the " Forgive and Forget talk" show?
> >
> >was she in 1984?
>
> I'd forgotten my Orwell. No, she's an insipid woman who's show is half Jerry
> Springer/half Oprah.
pass the twelve gauge
> >> >> <Sean and Vee, together again>
> >> Fluke? Or the cat goddess in action
> >
> >in a rats vs dogs situation, she'd side with the rat.
>
> Depends on whether the rat offended her most devout worshipper.
this is all happening in mid-late '98!
> >> >> <Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
> >> >JODIE FOSTER NUDE!!!!
> >> >- courtesy of Sean Girlsgirlsgirlscheap
> >> An acquired taste, I'm sure, straight from the David Hinkley web page.
> >
> >he's still chasing her? Can't she just ring him?
>
> I'm sure she'd like to wring him.
some girls just don't know how to clean dirty laundry
> >if you're under the gun and you've got a hostage and a pistol, sorry but
> >you're screwed.
>
> It assumes that the person under the gun gives a damn about the hostage.
shoot the hostage and you die. Take the gun away from the hostage and
you die. And have you seen Speed?
> >hopefully the signal specifies
>
> Okay. It's sent.
when will I receive it?
> >> <Enforcing feline discipline with a super soaker>
> >> >
> >> >you're an American. Use a .45 Uzi.
> >>
> >> I love my kitty cat.
> >
> >teach her to dance
>
> She's better at it than I am.
better still now
> >> <Rohan's thinking of enlisting>
> >>
> >> >dunno if I've got the physical requirements...
> >I'm a roleplayer
> Done in by a BMI of 30 then. Weight is not a permanent barrier.
eyesight's also a consideration
> >> The military is the only place where disobeying the boss can get you
> >> courtmartialed. But it is a good place to learn discipline.
> >
> >not so different from other jobs
>
> You can quit your other jobs before you're fired. An enlistment is
> indentured servitude.
is it different to a contract? Besides, I'd be the first of my family
in living memory to be a commissioned officer.
> >> <Keeping Bunsen in line>
> >> >
> >> >just a .38 loaded with blanks
> >>
> >> Doesn't that hurt his ears?
> >
> >not as much as live ammo
>
> Makes the quality of life for your Dad that much better though.
beats Morten
> >> Good psychological practice for the army.
> >
> >the point is NOT to kill people of course...
>
> Uh huh. That's why armies exist -- to kill people who might kill other people.
possible to get convoluted
> >> <Lame duck Clinton is not supporting Gore's presidential campaign>
> >> Gore is Dan Quayle waiting to happen. He would have found a way to
> >> botch a PR coup like E. Timor.
> >
> >if led by the hand?
>
> Not a good idea to push a candidate who has to be hand fed.
Kennedy and Reagan being the most popular...
> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
> >> But the worst depredations are kept under control. The US economy stayed
> >> sound and the sovereignty of the country was undisputed.
> >
> >still a serious international incident
>
> If Reagan had fired on China maybe. But no one's taking on the US
> over a minor political power.
Middle East's quite intricate. And it's a great way to piss off the
Brits
> >> <Rohan's cop shows are letting him down again>
>
> >Oh well, time to take that gun off Simon. I've been on the computer for
> >over an hour.
> >
> Minesweeper is incredibly addictive.
so's the solid feel of a compact but powerful handgun. And I can draw
the Elbonian.
Rohan Tolstrup, two time DM trying to make a list of 'how not to make
those mistakes'
Morten Brattbakk
Steve Miller <nue...@aol.comDELETE> skrev
> << As far as I can tell, Steve and Stan! went with one of those
sources--the
> first two paragraphs in the Emperor's writeup are _verbatim_ copies of
what's
> in my copy of _DRAGONLANCE Classics Vol. III_. >>
>
> It was my decision to go with the game material whenever something didn't
> matter in the Big Picture. IMO, Ariakas' class doesn't matter in the Big
> Picture.
Everything matters. The powers of the *leader* of the Dragonarmies during
the WotL doesn't matter? And what's this Big Picture? I agree with Rohan
that Chronicles should be considered "canon" since they have such a major
position among the readership compared to *all* other DL books and game
material. The more other authors distances themselves from the Chronicles
by contradicting it and not being respectful of it, the more they distance
themselves from the majority of the Dragonlance readership. (And you
comment that it doesn't matter in the Big Picture proves that even *you* of
all people share the mentality that is obviously dominant among DL authors;
that continuity doesn't matter.)
But that is really not what I was talking about. I would like you to
comment on your Capital Lettters. I remember when the DL5A game first came,
and the ads for it read something like: "A New Kind of Dragons have come to
Krynn, and the World needs Heroes more than Ever." Note the very liberal
use of big letters. I found it nothing but parodical.
It seems that a habit has been developed among some of the DL authors,
mainly you, Stan! and Miranda Horner. That is, the game oriented authors.
You consequently write Good and Evil instead of good and evil. It might
seem like something that doesn't matter in your Big Picture, but to me it
does. The great story about Linsha in Odyssey was seriously scarred by
using capital letters in these words. I shuddered as I read "For the Good
of Silvanesti" in Sylvan Veil. It makes me cringe every time I read it, and
I wonder just what age group this fiction is aimed at. 10-year-olds? Dr.
Evil (from Austin Powers) pop up in my mind every time Evil is written with
a capital E.
So, WHY ON KRYNN was this trend introduced? There's no trace of it in
earlier material. In fact, the *only* fiction to date (including the novels
that came out after the game material started the abominable habit) to use
it is Odyssey of Gilthanas. Absolutely no game material before TotL used
it, and until the 5A material no material after TotL either. So why, why,
why?
Please, please stop it. Not only is it silly and cheesy, it serves no
purpose, and it also yet another detail distancing the material being
written from the original DL works.
Morten
Weldon Chen
Morten Brattbakk wrote:
>
> But that is really not what I was talking about. I would like you to
> comment on your Capital Lettters. I remember when the DL5A game first came,
> and the ads for it read something like: "A New Kind of Dragons have come to
> Krynn, and the World needs Heroes more than Ever." Note the very liberal
> use of big letters. I found it nothing but parodical.
>
> It seems that a habit has been developed among some of the DL authors,
> mainly you, Stan! and Miranda Horner. That is, the game oriented authors.
> You consequently write Good and Evil instead of good and evil. It might
> seem like something that doesn't matter in your Big Picture, but to me it
> does.
Well, it was my impression that Good, and Evil, with the capital letters
represented the Gods positions on how morality in the Krynn universe
works. For example,
Good -> Following/believing Paladine
-> Redeeming one's own
-> Helping other people
and
Evil -> Following/believing Takhisis
-> Devouring/destroying things
-> making oneself more powerful
The words are capitalized because that's Paladine and Takhisis' brand of
morality. It's almost like seeing Good(tm) and Evil(tm).
Then there's our terran definitions of good and evil, which is nebulous
at best. For example, the Kingpriest was Good, but he is also evil.
Good in terms of believing Paladine, but evil because he was oppressive,
genocidal, and cataclysmic prone, effectively responsible for a lot of
destruction. I get the impression, this capitalization of Good and Evil
came about because of all the confusion on this newgroup and the mailing
list.
> The great story about Linsha in Odyssey was seriously scarred by
> using capital letters in these words. I shuddered as I read "For the Good
> of Silvanesti" in Sylvan Veil. It makes me cringe every time I read it, and
> I wonder just what age group this fiction is aimed at. 10-year-olds? Dr.
> Evil (from Austin Powers) pop up in my mind every time Evil is written with
> a capital E.
>
> So, WHY ON KRYNN was this trend introduced? There's no trace of it in
> earlier material. In fact, the *only* fiction to date (including the novels
> that came out after the game material started the abominable habit) to use
> it is Odyssey of Gilthanas. Absolutely no game material before TotL used
> it, and until the 5A material no material after TotL either. So why, why,
> why?
>
> Please, please stop it. Not only is it silly and cheesy, it serves no
> purpose, and it also yet another detail distancing the material being
> written from the original DL works.
Actually, I don't mind the Good/good/Evil/evil as long as it's more
closely followed or consistent so it doesn't confuse people. As i see
it, the capitalization means the word is now a proper noun officially
naming something, in the same way Mr. Smith and a smith are two
different things/people.
I think in an age where the Gods of Good (note the captialization)
abandoned Krynn, a differentiation between the Gods' Brand of Morality
and the peoples brand of morality become much more important. Now, if
I'm wrong, then I'd say grammer checks might be in order. :-)
> Morten
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
>> >> >> <Steve cherrypicked existing works when writing DL Classics>
>> <the game line and novels should be consistent.>
>modules should be presented as playable novels (or do like Birthright
>and have them in a different time period). We do after all have the
>right to demand more.
Of course you do, and IMO it was a mistake to couple the modules so
closely to Chronicles in the beginning. DL games should have been marketed as
independent campaigns set in Krynn. I never cared for replicating Chronicles
in my games and the best time that I had with DL was when my friends and I
rewrote history.
>
>> ><Raistlin, ridiculously underpowered theory wizard>
>> <If emotions trigger 5th age magic, Raist should have found it long ago.>
>> >we're talking about the most disciplined man on the planet
<Lesser characters are finding magic, so why wouldn't young Raist?>
>probably the 5A people who screwed up then. I accept that if Raist'd
>had that primal magic he would've used it. Were the gods deliberately
>repressing it?
Perhaps. Because so much of it is mental, maybe Raistlin's belief that he
couldn't perform powerful magic without study created a self imposed block.
But you'd think at least one post first Cataclysm cleric would have discovered
mysticism, since for clerics the impact of the Second Cataclysm almost
mirrors the first.
>
<South Central lives the life some rpgs vicariously imitate>
>sounds like an interesting lifestyle experience
You have had a sheltered life.
>
>> >> >> <It's easier to nuke Melbourne from above than below>
>what the hell does NYC have against Melbourne? And who the hell will be
>Prez come March 4 2001?
Senator Clinton is unforgiving. President Guiliani will remember certain
remarks about NYC quality of life.
>
>> >> >> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
>possibly gods operate in different 'power modes.' They might have tried
>Highlander style before they realised devotional was healthier.
Nice idea. Perhaps the Beyond still operates Highlander style, and that's
why the gods were willing to leave to form Krynn. Maybe the High God and
Chaos are still operating that way.
>
><Sean shooting up Jerry Springer>
>> Jerry will do anything for ratings.
>
>his own execution?
Sean's first, Jerry's during November sweeps.
>
>> <Who was the Soulforge coda directed at?>
>> >at millions of DL fans who'd be hypnotised into thinking it was the best
>> >book they'd ever read.
>>
>> Margaret's writing is what does that. Astinus has an Aesop role in SF.
>> He gives the story an in-world panache.
>
>or somebody found his old 'seal of approval' 50 years later
Since the majority of the books in the Great Library have disappeared, there
are probably peddlers all over Ansalon selling "genuine works penned by
Astinus himself."
>
>> >> >> <Aussie government is tipping the balance in favor of longevity>
>> >why would the party in government vote against itself?
>>
>> Because politicians being what they are, they'd force a change when a
>> leader weakens in order to take a stab at the top seat themselves.
>
>better to do it within the party. Labor ran last year against Kissinger
>policies - significantly set up by their then-deputy leader.
It's more attractive to the population when you position yourself as a savior.
>
>> <Sean not only has sex, it's kinky sex>
>Raistlin and Sean are both on the fringes. Sean's a 'noble gutter rat.'
Raistlin has discipline. Sean's more like Caramon on a bender.
>
>> >> <Whisker collection plan>
>> >which is why I've got a Glock Compact on my belt
>>
>> You thought you did. You'd never get past the first landing with it.
>
>you can't search EVERYWHERE
I don't have to. The 65 year old matron officer at the gate gladly take
care of it for me.
>
>> >haven't had a drink since the Drunkosaur incident
>>
>> The drunkosaur's not extinct, he's just hibernating.
>
>crackosaur and shroomosaur sighted nearby
Melbourne's a regular Jurassic Park.
>
><sue yo ass>
>> >ever heard of whitemailing? It's an Anti-Crime, up there with Breaking
>> >and Decorating.
>>
>> I'm not taking the heat for your bedroom color scheme. And Judge Judy
>> (mature and legal beagle -- your type!) would never rule against me.
>
><SPEW>
>I get to pick the judge
Then I get to pick the venue.
>
>> >> >> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were
>extinct by the 1st century because they were so effective.
>BASTARDS!!!!!!!!
"Oh my God, they've killed the plants!"
>
>> >> >> <Kit's amazing STD survival rate is due to gnome cloning efforts>
>> >> <That means Kit would get younger at intervals>
>> >franchises all over Ansalon?
<Would explain Ariakas as a cleric>
>there are obviously three different people claiming to be him
It makes sense that an imposter would have to kill any woman
that was with him before the real Ariakas got wind of it.
>
><sucked in, Chaos>
>> For some reason, Chaos thinks his kids are honorable.
>
><divine conspiracy>
<Chaosian stupidity>
>
>> >sensitivity encompasses more than just being a wet blanket
>>
>> :-P It's a tragic princess and the frog deal -- a young godling encased in
>> Bertrem's body, and only Dez can see past the ancient exterior.
>
><rack>. Too Python
More like Beauty and the Beast.
>> >> <Altie prefers Python to Atkinson>
>But for tasteful religious comedy you can't go past Oh Jesus!
Who did that one?
>
>> >> <Rohan has more friends than he lets on>
>Arts. My major's Legal Studies, and everybody who could went into Law.
>Factor in weekly tutes and living 15km apart....
To each his own, I suppose. I commuted to college as well but it didn't
really interfere with my having friends there.
>
><nuke-happy Nero?>
>> >I understand their economy ran on conquest
>>
>> Vespasian and the others saved the Empire from collapse. Nero was the
>> last of the Julio-Claudians and the Treasury hung by a thread.
>
>no shit Sherlock
Which usually means you didn't get my point. The economy ran on conquest
post Nero not during, And it didn't matter to him if he nuked half the known
world.
>
>> >> >> >> ><Caligula>
>> >this is my vintage Webley .455
>>
>> How nice, but I would have preferred the pink roses.
>
>get in the bathtub and that can be arranged
I bathe on a daily basis, so you can leave the roses at the door and I'll
pick them up when I'm done.
>
>> >> >> >> <Poop should not float so close to the surface in toilets>
>> >kevlar speedos then
>>
>> Okay -- that means that after the alligators are done, the sewers will be
>> flooded with the bottom half of the koalas.
>
>better go the whole hawg and give 'em drysuits.
>
>> >> >> >> >> <The Vatican's Swiss Guard may be tough but they dress like
>> >kender>
>> >they presumably know how to dodge.
>>
>> Hard to dodge a bullet to the kneecap.
>
>you shoot him before he can aim
Where are they hiding the guns? In those leotards? And they'd have to
drop the halberds first.
>
<Clancy had a tinfoil armored theme park Centurion stop a guy with
an UZI. The Centurion got around the tinfoil by standing behind iron>
That's a guy who got lucky. The Swiss Guards are supposed to be real.
<The theme of the book was industrialists and big corporations are okay
and yanks can do what they please in Australia>
What was the nature of the crime?
>
>> >> <Rub a dub dub, Dalamar enjoys the tub>
>> Only someone who doesn't have a tub would go for a death experience.
>
>my granny's beach house used to have a shower-tub about the right size
>for an adult in foetal position. Why bother?
You've had a bad tub experience then. Nothing beats a good soak in warm
water in a roomy porcelain tub.
>
>> >> >> <The guardian won't pass up a chance to dine on fresh meat>
>> They're not vampires. Bullets won't even drive away Casper.
>
>I've got some nude pics of Roseanne (or so my supplier told me)
Not good. Those would scare away Dalamar.
>
>> >> <You're not giving me nightmares Koalataur, yet>
>> If you're in there by yourself, it'll be more gigglefest than nightmare.
>
>that's what you think
I'll believe that when I see it.
>
>> ><right to silence or not?>
>> It's too roundabout a way to look for leads, and why listen to
>> something you can't use?
>
>also, it ignores the point of the right against self-incrimination
But if a criminal just refuses to talk, are they going to beat it out of him?
>
>She'll be apples
<But she won't be peeled>
>
>> <How many people even know Canberra is the capital of Australia?>
>> Cityp pride. How cute.
>
>we're taught Readin' Ritin' Rithmatic and hating Sydney
I never dealt much at work with Australians who weren't from Sydney.
I must admit that their recommendations for Aussie sightseeing never
included Melbourne.
>
>> >Basically 10% DC
>> DC is an okay capital.
>Agree on the Smithsonian, we spent a couple of days there. Dad
>used a model of one of the museum pieces there when he was auditing in
>his twenties.
Interesting. Was your dad a fiscal auditor? I always liked the space exhibits
the best. When I was very young, I thought I'd like to be an astronaut. When
I grew up to dislike higher mathematics, I changed my mind.
>
>> <How'd the Prez in ID4 get elected anyway?>
>realistically a prez will be at least 45. Der. How the hell did he get
>his mitts on the war chest?
Barbara Streisand and the Hollywood contingent would have bankrolled
a pretty boy prez like him.
>
>> <Tom Clancy wrote about a guy who became Prez without dirty dealing>
>> >> Defenders make bad Presidents. Look at Wilson and Carter.
>> >Carter was a joke who thought he could handle foreign policy
>>
>> And for foreign policy you do need to be able to make "ends justify the
>> means" type decisions. That's why the nice guy finishes last.
>
>lecturing the Soviets was not a good move
Just like lecturing the KoS on the Measure would not be a good move.
>
>> <"I'm just too good to be true." >
>> >I must find out what lurks beneath your exterior. Pass the veggie
>> >peeler.
>>
>> It'll take more than a veggie peeler to get me to strip, Koalataur.
>
>to anaesthatise or not to anaesthatise, that is the question. Sorry,
>but by now clothing is on the floor thanks to Mr Scissors.
Didn't know I had quite that effect on you. I'm flattered ... I think.
>
>> >> You don't really think I'd let you fall into the wrong hands, do you?
>> >
>> >is this a trick question?
>>
>> You don't trust me? <sniffle>
>
>you're an American. Thanks for the wheat subsidies and lamb quotas.
Fall into the wrong hands, eh? Depends on whether wrong is defined by
you or by the winning bidder.
>
>> >> >> >> >smart dracs?
>> >> >next thing they'll be wearing power suits
>> >>
>> >> And be appearing on the cover of Cigar Afficionado.
>> >
>> >beats a succession of white men I guess
>>
>> I can see Kit on the cover.
>
>I thought humidors were meant to be dry and cool
Yuck. Somehow she always seemed to be a natural cigar puffer.
>
>> <Kevin Smith gets to protect my civil liberties. Yum>
>> >
>> >he shouldn't take much more than a Carl Gustav
>>
>> If Kevin Smith is on the case, then it'd be in my best interests to keep
>the case open as long as possible.
>
>right now he's on the moon
Erik Thomson will do then.
>
>> >> >> <The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
>> >> >what if he gets the munchies?
>> >>
>> >> That's why he tricked the Irda into letting him out.
>> >
>> >I would've gone for dwarves. More substantial.
>>
>> Or kender to satisfy the sugar craving.
>
>do you start with junk food or a square meal?
The craving is usually for sweets first. Later Chaos may go for something
substantial.
>
<Sturm risked placing the heroes in danger when he wouldn't shave>
>> It was a great risk. At that point they didn't know just how addled
>Matafleur really was.
>
>they were able to solve the problem with a scarf. And a couple of 6'
>warriors credible as women?
Lucy Lawless, anybody?
>
<Linsha's disguised as a sell sword and feels guilty about lying to a man
she likes.>
>
>I'd reveal a more sympathetic side. Surely she can reveal certain
>information without blowing her cover.
Can't tell you much more without spoiling it for you but Linsha
considers any softening of her role to be a violation of the Measure
and a sign of weakness.
>
>> >shouldn't be rigid. Discipline is important, doctrine isn't.
>> Agreed. But for some reason, the KoS are portrayed more like Jesuits
>> than Knights Templar.
>
>what the Jesuits actually get up to is anybody's guess
Jesuit methodology is more reminiscent of the "foot soldier of Paladine"
concept that drives the KoS. The Templars broke the rules when needed
and were more LoS like.
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> <diplomacy is private>
<Gunthar needs the elves as much as they need him>
>>
>> Not really. The KoT was knocking on the elven doors. Protecting the
>> elves just adds to Gunthar's burden.
>
>he needs them on-side to be able to ally with the dwarves
The mountain dwarves, who shut the doors at the first sign of trouble,
would be the first to complain about the elves interfering with Solamnic
sovereignty. Similarly the hill dwarves, who are fiercely independent.
>
>> >> <Tanis and Laurana worked together because Tanis isn't a diplomat>
<Laurana handles the elves more because they still look down on Tanis>
>
>here Tanis plays a support role then. Who else can she trust as a
>personal bodyguard?
Sometimes maybe. But both DoSF and Second Generation have them
performing different roles in distant places, so it makes sense that they
divided up the diplomatic chores based on the audience.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan hasn't worn a suit in years>
>what's wrong with jeans around the office?
Against the rules. Jeans are considered too casual for an HQ.
The characters in Phoenix get to wear jeans though.
>
>> <Bond women are one night stand bimbos so they don't fit the comparison>
>nope. I'm reading the latest Bond novel (third author), and so far he's
>scored with the exotic foreign agent within hours of meeting her, and
>uncovered a conspiracy that goes to great expense to kill a few people
>with sophisticated bioagents.
Bond bimbos are not normal women.
>
>> >> <Superman is just as normal as Sword>
>> >he's a boyscout. Sword has no compunction against breaking the law.
>
>> Lots of normal men have compunctions against breaking the law.
>
>probably never occurs to Supes to be dishonest
Supes has lied and used subterfuge on occasion. What he won't do is
kill without reason.
>
>> >> <Rohan's son: The Cheesemaster>
>> >> You'd be committing parricide -- the act of killing a close relative.
>> >
>> >I know I'm related to myself
>>
>> The DNA sample says the The Cheesemaster is yours.
>
>know what seppuku is? You take a wakizashi...
Just giving your death by disembowlment some meaning is all.
>
>> >> <Only the long term fans over 20s are likely to live if WoS sucks>
>> Eventually interactive computing rpgs will replace pad and paper gaming.
>> That generation won't care about continuity or anything else, since other
>> computer adaptation usually don't follow the original source material.
>
>pass the wakizashi, or do you want to go first?
You go ahead. Somebody has to tidy up when you're done.
>
>> >> >> <Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
<Morten asked for FAQ feedback the other day>
>that was several weeks ago wasn't it?
He didn't get that many takers when he tried overhauling it the last time.
>
>> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
>> >Bolton says hi
>>
>> Who? or What?
>
>good that you don't remember the name, as otherwise he'd be paying you a
>visit with his .45.
Am I going to have to read the 100 plus posts that we've gone through
together or are you going to cut me some slack and just tell me?
>
>> >> <Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.>
>> Speedy and Daffy do not have equal shots at resurrection so it is EO.
>
>greased up small animals devastate Prometheus-like larger animals. Wow.
Thought you were against the big corporation winning?
>
>> >> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
>it would be quite difficult to get a bomb near Sword
There's a first time for everything.
>
>> >Guenhwyvar would have difficulty with Itchy.
>>
>> Guen has a Nine Lives Guarantee issued by Salvatore. Itchy will be
>> scratched.
>
>he's survived so far
Glad he's made the most of his life before meeting Guen then.
>
>> >> >> >> >> <Has Altie been to Norway?>
>> >> <Rohan's going after the reindeer after he finishes Morten>
>> There'll be coal in your stocking this Christmas.
>
>I've also got photos of Santa getting it on with the Easter Bunny.
Coal and no Easter candy. How depressing.
>
>> >> <Rohan's got a death wish>
>> I can live without weekend mail. It just means I get bills earlier.
>
>the sending deadline being Thursday kinda sucks
Electronic bill paying helps somewhat.
>
>> >> <Rohan shushes his mom and dad makes him feel guilty>
>> >talk to the hand. That's where the relevant personality is.
>>
>> Anyone who offers me a hand in conversation gets a finger in response.
>
>that's not very polite
neither is the hand.
>
>> >> <Koalas only eat poop when looney or stressed>
>> Left over pizza gives one the runs instead of a buzz.
>
>ever heard of nuking it?
Then it's a warm gooey mess that gives you the runs.
>
<Who is Mother Love?>
>>
>> I'd forgotten my Orwell. No, she's an insipid woman who's show is half
>Jerry Springer/half Oprah.
>
>pass the twelve gauge
She'd forgive you and we'd forget her.
>
>> >> >> <Sean and Vee, together again>
>> >> Fluke? Or the cat goddess in action
>> >
>> >in a rats vs dogs situation, she'd side with the rat.
>>
>> Depends on whether the rat offended her most devout worshipper.
>
>this is all happening in mid-late '98!
Pre-emptive strike.
>
>> >> >> <Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
>> >> An acquired taste, I'm sure, straight from the David Hinkley web page.
>> >
>> >he's still chasing her? Can't she just ring him?
>>
>> I'm sure she'd like to wring him.
>
>some girls just don't know how to clean dirty laundry
Some clothes are just unsalvageable and should be thrown out.
<Hostage situation>
>shoot the hostage and you die. Take the gun away from the hostage and
>you die. And have you seen Speed?
But if the other participants don't care about the hostage you'll get rushed.
One person can't kill everybody.
>
>> >hopefully the signal specifies
>>
>> Okay. It's sent.
>
>when will I receive it?
You mean you haven't already? Perhaps you aren't ready, my young
Padawan learner.
>
>> >> <Enforcing feline discipline with a super soaker>
>> >> >you're an American. Use a .45 Uzi.
No, my kitty laughs at danger. She won't dance under duress.
>
>> >> <Rohan's thinking of enlisting>
>> >> >dunno if I've got the physical requirements...
>> Done in by a BMI of 30 then. Weight is not a permanent barrier.
>
>eyesight's also a consideration
Are you doomed to glasses, or can you do the lasik corrective surgery?
>
>> You can quit your other jobs before you're fired. An enlistment is
>> indentured servitude.
>
>is it different to a contract?
Not all jobs are contractual. Mine, for example. As long as I don't
commit a crime, I can leave when I want to.
>Besides, I'd be the first of my family in living memory to be a
>commissioned officer.
It sounds like that would make you happy, so maybe this is the
best thing for you then. Why'd you go in as an officer, though --
is there such a thing as ADF ROTC?
>
>> >> <Keeping Bunsen in line>
>> Makes the quality of life for your Dad that much better though.
>
>beats Morten
Most likely Morten would delegate Bunsen clean up to you. He does
have the FAQ to maintain.
>
>> >> Good psychological practice for the army.
>> >
>> >the point is NOT to kill people of course...
>>
>> Uh huh. That's why armies exist -- to kill people who might kill other
>people.
>
>possible to get convoluted
Does any side ever thing they're the dishonourable party?
>
>> >> <Lame duck Clinton is not supporting Gore's presidential campaign>
>> >> Gore is Dan Quayle waiting to happen. He would have found a way to
>> >> botch a PR coup like E. Timor.
>> >
>> >if led by the hand?
>>
>> Not a good idea to push a candidate who has to be hand fed.
>
>Kennedy and Reagan being the most popular...
First term Reagan was in possession of all his faculties. And Kennedy
doing what he pleased was probably what got him killed.
>
>> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
>> >still a serious international incident
>>
>> If Reagan had fired on China maybe. But no one's taking on the US
>> over a minor political power.
>
>Middle East's quite intricate. And it's a great way to piss off the
>Brits
The US has a habit of picking the minor nations that neighboring countries
wouldn't mind seeing in chaos.
>
>> >> <Rohan's cop shows are letting him down again>
<Simon's a free man>
Maybe a computer is the best way to go for the parental birthday gift.
Weldon Chen
>
> >> ><Raistlin, ridiculously underpowered theory wizard>
> >> <If emotions trigger 5th age magic, Raist should have found it long ago.>
Actually, in an inworld explaination, I think Raistlin did find the 5th
Age/Primal magic. if you check out the end of the War of the Twins,
Raistlin was thinking his was going to be torn apart just like
Fistandantilus was. Yet Raistlin's sheer willpower and determination
somehow allowed him to control the magic, and he crossed the portal. If
one were to even believe the 5th age magic exists, I think he had tapped
into the primal magic at that point, although he didn't know it.
> >> >we're talking about the most disciplined man on the planet
> <Lesser characters are finding magic, so why wouldn't young Raist?>
> >probably the 5A people who screwed up then. I accept that if Raist'd
> >had that primal magic he would've used it. Were the gods deliberately
> >repressing it?
Also, i have a pet theory that primal magic, and psionics are
potentially the same thing. it would explain yaggol, godly supression
of psionics in the DL at well.
> Perhaps. Because so much of it is mental, maybe Raistlin's belief that he
> couldn't perform powerful magic without study created a self imposed block.
> But you'd think at least one post first Cataclysm cleric would have discovered
> mysticism, since for clerics the impact of the Second Cataclysm almost
> mirrors the first.
Well, there are lots of stories about witch burnings after the 1st
cataclysm. In the Legends series, Crysania was considered a witch
because she used clerical powers from paladine. Suppose a mystic
discovers healing after the 1st cataclysm, and uses it, seemingly with
or without a god's backing. if crysania is considered a witch even WITH
paladine's backing, a mystic would be considered a witch is very much
the same fashion. And the witch would be burned at the stake for using
ungodly powers. Although there's not recorded evidence of mysticism in
the first cataclysm (for obvious book/timeline publication reasons) it's
possible that witch burning prevented mysticism from developing.
Secondly, Takhisis came to power after the cataclysm. Now, if *I* wanted
to rule Krynn, and there was potential mysticism which might compete
with my dark clerics, I'd certainly send out my assassins and kill off
any mystics. Hell, if I had faith in my assassins, i'd get the
assassins to call the mystics witches, and watch the rest of the
villagers light the witch up.
Granak Red-Silver
Sivak
Altarielle
writes:
>Altarielle wrote:
>> >> <If emotions trigger 5th age magic, Raist should have found it long
>ago.>
>
>Actually, in an inworld explaination, I think Raistlin did find the 5th
>Age/Primal magic. if you check out the end of the War of the Twins,
>Raistlin was thinking his was going to be torn apart just like
>Fistandantilus was. Yet Raistlin's sheer willpower and determination
>somehow allowed him to control the magic, and he crossed the portal. If
>one were to even believe the 5th age magic exists, I think he had tapped
>into the primal magic at that point, although he didn't know it.
That's a good way of interpreting such a powerful scene. Before reading
your response, I'd only seen a glimmer of what could be regarded as Raist
using 5th age magic in Time of the Twins, when he realizes he's got feelings
for Crysania. That "Superman X-ray eyes" scene where the fireplace bursts
into flames with a look from Raist fits into pattern.
SF, being published post Dragons of a New Age, is full of incidents
where Raistlin figuratively burns with magic, the scene at Gilon's death
being an example where he almost lost it and incinerated Judith.
>
>> >> >we're talking about the most disciplined man on the planet
>> <Lesser characters are finding magic, so why wouldn't young Raist?>
>> >probably the 5A people who screwed up then. I accept that if Raist'd
>> >had that primal magic he would've used it. Were the gods deliberately
>> >repressing it?
>
>Also, i have a pet theory that primal magic, and psionics are
>potentially the same thing. it would explain yaggol, godly supression
>of psionics in the DL at well.
I've always thought that the gods deliberately obscured sorcery and
mysticism, perhaps in a vain attempt to prevent the ascendancy of
mortals like Raistlin to disastrous godhood. After all, if mortals had
been practicing 5th age magic from the get go, they may have expanded
beyond its currently limited boundaries.
>
>> Perhaps. Because so much of it is mental, maybe Raistlin's belief that he
>> couldn't perform powerful magic without study created a self imposed block.
>> But you'd think at least one post first Cataclysm cleric would have
>> discovered mysticism, since for clerics the impact of the Second
>> Cataclysm almost mirrors the first.
>
>Well, there are lots of stories about witch burnings after the 1st
>cataclysm. In the Legends series, Crysania was considered a witch
>because she used clerical powers from paladine. Suppose a mystic
>discovers healing after the 1st cataclysm, and uses it, seemingly with
>or without a god's backing. if crysania is considered a witch even WITH
>paladine's backing, a mystic would be considered a witch is very much
>the same fashion. And the witch would be burned at the stake for using
>ungodly powers. Although there's not recorded evidence of mysticism in
>the first cataclysm (for obvious book/timeline publication reasons) it's
>possible that witch burning prevented mysticism from developing.
Good point. It makes you wonder -- how many of the cults that sprang up
after the Cataclysm may have worshipped false gods, but exercised true
mysticism? Judith practiced magic, but there may have been some
Seekers who had the gift but maybe never understood it enough to develop
a true religion.
>
>Secondly, Takhisis came to power after the cataclysm. Now, if *I* wanted
>to rule Krynn, and there was potential mysticism which might compete
>with my dark clerics, I'd certainly send out my assassins and kill off
>any mystics. Hell, if I had faith in my assassins, i'd get the
>assassins to call the mystics witches, and watch the rest of the
>villagers light the witch up.
Tak could have even used the Seekers as a cover for her activities, since
they aggressively went after other sects.
And if you think about it, while the stated objective of the Conclave in
hunting down renegades is to prevent the misuse of magic, it also helped
hide the existence of sorcery the same way the witch hunts may have
obscured mysticism.
Tolstrup
> Of course you do, and IMO it was a mistake to couple the modules so
> closely to Chronicles in the beginning. DL games should have been marketed as
> independent campaigns set in Krynn. I never cared for replicating Chronicles
> in my games and the best time that I had with DL was when my friends and I
> rewrote history.
do tell... somebody came up with a LG Raistlin leading the conclave,
Sturm leading the KoS and Caramon, pirate king...
> <Lesser characters are finding magic, so why wouldn't young Raist?>
> >probably the 5A people who screwed up then. I accept that if Raist'd
> >had that primal magic he would've used it. Were the gods deliberately
> >repressing it?
>
> Perhaps. Because so much of it is mental, maybe Raistlin's belief that he
> couldn't perform powerful magic without study created a self imposed block.
> But you'd think at least one post first Cataclysm cleric would have discovered
> mysticism, since for clerics the impact of the Second Cataclysm almost
> mirrors the first.
the conclusion's pretty inescapable then. What about that cleric
Crysania met?
> <South Central lives the life some rpgs vicariously imitate>
> >sounds like an interesting lifestyle experience
> You have had a sheltered life.
not necessarily a good thing
> >> >> >> <It's easier to nuke Melbourne from above than below>
> >what the hell does NYC have against Melbourne? And who the hell will be
> >Prez come March 4 2001?
>
> Senator Clinton is unforgiving. President Guiliani will remember certain
> remarks about NYC quality of life.
sorry, but toilets are intended to *remove* waste
> >> >> >> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
> >possibly gods operate in different 'power modes.' They might have tried
> >Highlander style before they realised devotional was healthier.
>
> Nice idea. Perhaps the Beyond still operates Highlander style, and that's
> why the gods were willing to leave to form Krynn. Maybe the High God and
> Chaos are still operating that way.
HG is probably smoking phlogiston or something. Chaos? Munchies.
> ><Sean shooting up Jerry Springer>
> >> Jerry will do anything for ratings.
> >
> >his own execution?
> Sean's first, Jerry's during November sweeps.
Lethal injection? Immune. I believe most other forms are illegal even
where you've got the death penalty. Would Jerry actually carry out an
illegal execution on air? Does Alaska have the death penalty and can it
be applied to insane minors?
> >> <Who was the Soulforge coda directed at?>
> Since the majority of the books in the Great Library have disappeared, there
> are probably peddlers all over Ansalon selling "genuine works penned by
> Astinus himself."
hell yeah. Only way to explain The Companions. Betcha at least one
entrepreneur claims Astinus quit to work for him.
<no confidence in your own party?>
> >better to do it within the party. Labor ran last year against Kissinger
> >policies - significantly set up by their then-deputy leader.
>
> It's more attractive to the population when you position yourself as a savior.
and looks a bit cynical when you vote no confidence on your own party
> >> <Sean not only has sex, it's kinky sex>
> >Raistlin and Sean are both on the fringes. Sean's a 'noble gutter rat.'
>
> Raistlin has discipline. Sean's more like Caramon on a bender.
not really. He's certainly got the Faust factor going. Mainly he's
come unstuck because of unforseen circumstances or his Rage (blessing
and curse of his kind). He plans well and is often the Raistlin of the
group. He can usually control himself.
> >> >> <Whisker collection plan>
> >you can't search EVERYWHERE
>
> I don't have to. The 65 year old matron officer at the gate gladly take
> care of it for me.
I get to try out the Hush Puppy. Cool.
> >crackosaur and shroomosaur sighted nearby
>
> Melbourne's a regular Jurassic Park.
lock AND load
> ><sue yo ass>
<Judge Judy?>
> ><SPEW>
> >I get to pick the judge
>
> Then I get to pick the venue.
that's what you think. Seen She-Devil?
> >> >> >> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were
> >extinct by the 1st century because they were so effective.
>
> >BASTARDS!!!!!!!!
> "Oh my God, they've killed the plants!"
more like, how could they waste such a resource?
> It makes sense that an imposter would have to kill any woman
> that was with him before the real Ariakas got wind of it.
it'd add to his mystique. Maybe he can't get it up, so he's got a horde
of lookalikes who ravish hundreds of women and enhance his reputation.
> >> :-P It's a tragic princess and the frog deal -- a young godling encased in
> >> Bertrem's body, and only Dez can see past the ancient exterior.
> >
> ><rack>. Too Python
>
> More like Beauty and the Beast.
it's like the Prince in Distress scene from Holy Grail
> >> >> <Altie prefers Python to Atkinson>
> >But for tasteful religious comedy you can't go past Oh Jesus!
>
> Who did that one?
it was in a BBC satire. A couple of bureaucrats wanted to demolish the
Controller, so they set up a 'religious satire' to insult the entire
country. Picture a giant circumcised phallus with Khomeini's head stuck
under the glans.
> >> >> <Rohan has more friends than he lets on>
> >Arts. My major's Legal Studies, and everybody who could went into Law.
> >Factor in weekly tutes and living 15km apart....
> To each his own, I suppose. I commuted to college as well but it didn't
> really interfere with my having friends there.
there are probably differences of background and personality... and you
at least could go to Bar Night
> ><nuke-happy Nero?>
> >no shit Sherlock
>
> Which usually means you didn't get my point. The economy ran on conquest
> post Nero not during, And it didn't matter to him if he nuked half the known
> world.
oopsie. Cancel that contract.
> >> >> >> >> ><Caligula>
> >> >this is my vintage Webley .455
> >>
> >> How nice, but I would have preferred the pink roses.
> >
> >get in the bathtub and that can be arranged
>
> I bathe on a daily basis, so you can leave the roses at the door and I'll
> pick them up when I'm done.
I can arrange red roses easy, but for pink you have to be underwater
> >> Hard to dodge a bullet to the kneecap.
> >
> >you shoot him before he can aim
>
> Where are they hiding the guns? In those leotards? And they'd have to
> drop the halberds first.
you pull a gun and the REAL guards have shot you before you clear
leather. If it's full scale assault time, you get to see overgrown
kender with assault rifles.
> <Clancy had a tinfoil armored theme park Centurion stop a guy with
> an UZI. The Centurion got around the tinfoil by standing behind iron>
> That's a guy who got lucky. The Swiss Guards are supposed to be real.
strangely enough the 'kender' are ceremonial...
> <The theme of the book was industrialists and big corporations are okay
> and yanks can do what they please in Australia>
>
> What was the nature of the crime?
nothing major. He was about to empty a canister of Ebola-on-steroids
particles into the air conditioning system at the Sydney Olympics. They
didn't even call the Aussie authorities when they staked out the single
point he had to use, and then they smuggled him out of the country.
> >> >> <Rub a dub dub, Dalamar enjoys the tub>
> >my granny's beach house used to have a shower-tub about the right size
> >for an adult in foetal position. Why bother?
>
> You've had a bad tub experience then. Nothing beats a good soak in warm
> water in a roomy porcelain tub.
'roomy.' Ours is nice and deep, but either my head and shoulders or
knees stick out. Too short. I shower.
> >> >> >> <The guardian won't pass up a chance to dine on fresh meat>
> >> They're not vampires. Bullets won't even drive away Casper.
> >
> >I've got some nude pics of Roseanne (or so my supplier told me)
>
> Not good. Those would scare away Dalamar.
then I'd have you all to myself
> >> >> <You're not giving me nightmares Koalataur, yet>
> >> If you're in there by yourself, it'll be more gigglefest than nightmare.
> >
> >that's what you think
> I'll believe that when I see it.
<spin>
> >> ><right to silence or not?>
> >> It's too roundabout a way to look for leads, and why listen to
> >> something you can't use?
> >
> >also, it ignores the point of the right against self-incrimination
>
> But if a criminal just refuses to talk, are they going to beat it out of him?
it's a crime to not answer. And bashing may be an option.
> >She'll be apples
> <But she won't be peeled>
know where that expression comes from? Convicts coring apples in
Tasmania (aka Tasphobia)...
> >we're taught Readin' Ritin' Rithmatic and hating Sydney
>
> I never dealt much at work with Australians who weren't from Sydney.
> I must admit that their recommendations for Aussie sightseeing never
> included Melbourne.
pack of wankers
> >> >Basically 10% DC
> >> DC is an okay capital.
>
> >Agree on the Smithsonian, we spent a couple of days there. Dad
> >used a model of one of the museum pieces there when he was auditing in
> >his twenties.
>
> Interesting. Was your dad a fiscal auditor?
yep. Currently on the executive side of a large insurance brokerage.
I always liked the space exhibits
> the best. When I was very young, I thought I'd like to be an astronaut. When
> I grew up to dislike higher mathematics, I changed my mind.
I wanted to join the Air Force and fly a F111-C (age about 11)
> >> <How'd the Prez in ID4 get elected anyway?>
> >realistically a prez will be at least 45. Der. How the hell did he get
> >his mitts on the war chest?
>
> Barbara Streisand and the Hollywood contingent would have bankrolled
> a pretty boy prez like him.
don't they usually need a reason?
> >lecturing the Soviets was not a good move
>
> Just like lecturing the KoS on the Measure would not be a good move.
Carter did so quite publicly, and there were idiotic ideas like linking
concessions to Jewish emigration etc. Otoh, it's vital to elven
interests that the Measure be sorted out.
> >> <"I'm just too good to be true." >
> >to anaesthatise or not to anaesthatise, that is the question. Sorry,
> >but by now clothing is on the floor thanks to Mr Scissors.
>
> Didn't know I had quite that effect on you. I'm flattered ... I think.
the truth is in there
> >> You don't trust me? <sniffle>
> >
> >you're an American. Thanks for the wheat subsidies and lamb quotas.
>
> Fall into the wrong hands, eh? Depends on whether wrong is defined by
> you or by the winning bidder.
I've set enough plague bombs to ensure that only my descendants will
exist on this planet next century. So defined by me.
> >> I can see Kit on the cover.
> >
> >I thought humidors were meant to be dry and cool
>
> Yuck. Somehow she always seemed to be a natural cigar puffer.
I don't really go into that. But she certainly does tequila shots.
> >> <Kevin Smith gets to protect my civil liberties. Yum>
> >right now he's on the moon
>
> Erik Thomson will do then.
never heard of him. And he strayed into the Ronan Keating clip just
before Sean decided to change the script with a Magnum
> >> >> >> <The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
> >do you start with junk food or a square meal?
>
> The craving is usually for sweets first. Later Chaos may go for something
> substantial.
not bad. Lollies all over the place, then a nice square meal of Hill
Dwarf, followed by plenty of canned stuff.
> <Sturm risked placing the heroes in danger when he wouldn't shave>
> >they were able to solve the problem with a scarf. And a couple of 6'
> >warriors credible as women?
>
> Lucy Lawless, anybody?
still obviously a woman
> <Linsha's disguised as a sell sword and feels guilty about lying to a man
> she likes.>
> >
> >I'd reveal a more sympathetic side. Surely she can reveal certain
> >information without blowing her cover.
>
> Can't tell you much more without spoiling it for you but Linsha
> considers any softening of her role to be a violation of the Measure
> and a sign of weakness.
so she's one of those Frankenstein Majeres?
> >what the Jesuits actually get up to is anybody's guess
>
> Jesuit methodology is more reminiscent of the "foot soldier of Paladine"
> concept that drives the KoS. The Templars broke the rules when needed
> and were more LoS like.
aren't the Jesuits a semisecret order? One thing I liked about Man in
the Iron Mask...
> <Gunthar needs the elves as much as they need him>
> >he needs them on-side to be able to ally with the dwarves
>
> The mountain dwarves, who shut the doors at the first sign of trouble,
> would be the first to complain about the elves interfering with Solamnic
> sovereignty. Similarly the hill dwarves, who are fiercely independent.
the dwarves wouldn't give the KoS concessions without a guarantee that
the elves won't try anything.
> >> >> <Tanis and Laurana worked together because Tanis isn't a diplomat>
> <Laurana handles the elves more because they still look down on Tanis>
> >
> >here Tanis plays a support role then. Who else can she trust as a
> >personal bodyguard?
>
> Sometimes maybe. But both DoSF and Second Generation have them
> performing different roles in distant places, so it makes sense that they
> divided up the diplomatic chores based on the audience.
perhaps. Still, Laurana has close friends at the top of both totems
> >> >> >> <Rohan hasn't worn a suit in years>
> >what's wrong with jeans around the office?
> Against the rules. Jeans are considered too casual for an HQ.
> The characters in Phoenix get to wear jeans though.
dress pants, pastel shirt and loafers. I'd feel overdressed and freak.
> Bond bimbos are not normal women.
would've never guessed. That he's now grabbing professional spies makes
their easyness even more ridiculous. And he pulled a feat 'only a
circus acrobat or another 00-section agent could perform.' Please,
remember he's an aging navy officer turned spy.
> >> >> <Superman is just as normal as Sword>
> >probably never occurs to Supes to be dishonest
>
> Supes has lied and used subterfuge on occasion. What he won't do is
> kill without reason.
neither will Sword. However, would Supes screw around with the law?
> >> >> <Rohan's son: The Cheesemaster>
> >know what seppuku is? You take a wakizashi...
>
> Just giving your death by disembowlment some meaning is all.
oh, I'd make sure you'd be serving me in heaven...
> >> >> <Only the long term fans over 20s are likely to live if WoS sucks>
<rpgs replaced by machines>
> >pass the wakizashi, or do you want to go first?
>
> You go ahead. Somebody has to tidy up when you're done.
have fun
> >> >> >> <Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
> <Morten asked for FAQ feedback the other day>
>
> >that was several weeks ago wasn't it?
>
> He didn't get that many takers when he tried overhauling it the last time.
instead he hauls over it
> >> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
> >> >Bolton says hi
> >>
> >> Who? or What?
> >
> >good that you don't remember the name, as otherwise he'd be paying you a
> >visit with his .45.
>
> Am I going to have to read the 100 plus posts that we've gone through
> together or are you going to cut me some slack and just tell me?
ok. Bloke who walked into the underage female boxing match and wasted
the guy getting blown.
> >> >> <Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.>
> >> Speedy and Daffy do not have equal shots at resurrection so it is EO.
> >
> >greased up small animals devastate Prometheus-like larger animals. Wow.
>
> Thought you were against the big corporation winning?
as a big man I dislike the imagery. It's not realistic anyway.
> >> >> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
> >it would be quite difficult to get a bomb near Sword
>
> There's a first time for everything.
you're going to go after *Sword*?
> >> >Guenhwyvar would have difficulty with Itchy.
> >>
> >> Guen has a Nine Lives Guarantee issued by Salvatore. Itchy will be
> >> scratched.
> >
> >he's survived so far
>
> Glad he's made the most of his life before meeting Guen then.
once Itchy's done (for?) Sean and Sword both have grenad launchers.
> >I've also got photos of Santa getting it on with the Easter Bunny.
>
> Coal and no Easter candy. How depressing.
ever heard of blackmail?
> >> Anyone who offers me a hand in conversation gets a finger in response.
> >
> >that's not very polite
>
> neither is the hand.
my hand's very expressive and I do a lot of important stuff with it.
> >> >> <Koalas only eat poop when looney or stressed>
> >> Left over pizza gives one the runs instead of a buzz.
> >
> >ever heard of nuking it?
>
> Then it's a warm gooey mess that gives you the runs.
thought you had a good Italian industry
> <Who is Mother Love?>
> >pass the twelve gauge
>
> She'd forgive you and we'd forget her.
Amen
> >> >> >> <Sean and Vee, together again>
> >> >> Fluke? Or the cat goddess in action
> >> >
> >> >in a rats vs dogs situation, she'd side with the rat.
> >>
> >> Depends on whether the rat offended her most devout worshipper.
> >
> >this is all happening in mid-late '98!
>
> Pre-emptive strike.
that's not very nice. And remember Danger Sense. He's got a white suit
and an eyepatch.
> >> >> >> <Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
> >some girls just don't know how to clean dirty laundry
> Some clothes are just unsalvageable and should be thrown out.
hire a killer dammit!
> <Hostage situation>
> >shoot the hostage and you die. Take the gun away from the hostage and
> >you die. And have you seen Speed?
>
> But if the other participants don't care about the hostage you'll get rushed.
> One person can't kill everybody.
I'm not talking about it from the gunman's PoV. He's dead.
> >> >hopefully the signal specifies
> >>
> >> Okay. It's sent.
> >
> >when will I receive it?
>
> You mean you haven't already? Perhaps you aren't ready, my young
> Padawan learner.
I hate Star Wars!
> >> >> <Enforcing feline discipline with a super soaker>
> >> >> >you're an American. Use a .45 Uzi.
>
> No, my kitty laughs at danger. She won't dance under duress.
how about for catnip laced with angel dust?
> >> >> <Rohan's thinking of enlisting>
thinking of getting a commission
> >eyesight's also a consideration
>
> Are you doomed to glasses, or can you do the lasik corrective surgery?
beats the hell outta me. They mentioned bringing a cast eye back in,
but that's just cosmetic.
> >is it different to a contract?
>
> Not all jobs are contractual. Mine, for example. As long as I don't
> commit a crime, I can leave when I want to.
you've got the option of another job I believe?
> >Besides, I'd be the first of my family in living memory to be a
> >commissioned officer.
>
> It sounds like that would make you happy, so maybe this is the
> best thing for you then. Why'd you go in as an officer, though --
> is there such a thing as ADF ROTC?
there's a Reserve scheme of course. In my case it's "I can become a
soldier? Cool!"
> >> >> <Keeping Bunsen in line>
> >> Makes the quality of life for your Dad that much better though.
> >
> >beats Morten
>
> Most likely Morten would delegate Bunsen clean up to you. He does
> have the FAQ to maintain.
think I'll take the status quo
> >possible to get convoluted
>
> Does any side ever thing they're the dishonourable party?
nope
> >> Not a good idea to push a candidate who has to be hand fed.
> >
> >Kennedy and Reagan being the most popular...
>
> First term Reagan was in possession of all his faculties. And Kennedy
> doing what he pleased was probably what got him killed.
hasta la vista Abie
> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
> >Middle East's quite intricate. And it's a great way to piss off the
> >Brits
>
> The US has a habit of picking the minor nations that neighboring countries
> wouldn't mind seeing in chaos.
and if the Brits had their own diplomatic efforts with say the Saudis?
> >> >> <Rohan's cop shows are letting him down again>
> <Simon's a free man>
> Maybe a computer is the best way to go for the parental birthday gift.
I'm not feeling that rich
He's hunting in my room, probably for my gun. It's under the computer
desk but I'd better go.
Rohan "I am God" Tolstrup
WTF with the list?
Weldon Chen
> I've always thought that the gods deliberately obscured sorcery and
> mysticism, perhaps in a vain attempt to prevent the ascendancy of
> mortals like Raistlin to disastrous godhood. After all, if mortals had
> been practicing 5th age magic from the get go, they may have expanded
> beyond its currently limited boundaries.
That actually goes into part of my ideas of Krynnish theology. Setting
aside the fact that my personal beliefs (the Gods created Krynn simply
because the popular stories would inspire, entertain, and and make
money), part of the creation theory is that when the gods created Krynn,
Reorx's hammer struck chaos and created the stars and the spirits.
Since then, the Gods of Good wish to nurture the spirits, the Evil Gods
wish to control the spirits, and Neutral Gods wish to give the spirits
free will to choose.
It's been my pet beliefs that in each case, the spirits were eventually
targeted to become god-like powers. But rather than creating gods right
out from the start, the gods want to proceed slowly in their grand
experiment. I.e. it's in their best interest not to let their own
experiment become more powerful than they are. Thus, there must be
rules, and acts of conduct. These rules might include no psionics, no
primal sorcery, no primal mysticism, an 18th level limit, and maybe even
a 25 Max ability limit on all the peoples of Krynn.
Now that the gods are gone, I'd think, there are no level limits, there
can be psionics, sorcery, mysticism, and potential god-like mortals who
ascend to what should be the age of mortals. So, at this point, i
believe that krynnfolk are people destined to be gods, who need to grow
into their true power over time.
Speaking of god hood, take a look at Raistlin in the Legends Trilogy.
Did anyone notice that Raistlin (although he kicked butt) seemed to be
trapped. In Reavers of the Blood Sea, as well as other books, there is
mention that the Gods exist on several planes. Yet in Legends, Raistlin
only seemed to exist on one plane, that which has Krynn destroyed. I
wonder, if Raistlin was a god, why didn't he just jump to a different
plane when he defeated the gods. Logically, Raistlin was either
unwilling, or unable to do so. If Raistlin was unable to, then
something prevented him, or raistlin didn't have enough power to do so.
Very interesting, huh?
Granak Red-Silver
Sivak
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
><right to demand more>
<Who wants to follow the books by rote when gaming?>
>do tell... somebody came up with a LG Raistlin leading the conclave,
>Sturm leading the KoS and Caramon, pirate king...
"What if Tak won" was my overall favorite DL alternate campaign.
Second best was Crysania turning the tables on Raistlin and
becoming an evil goddess -- think along the lines of Mystra/Midnight.
Honorable mention goes to a Sturm/Laurana romance where they live
happily ever after. Don't tell me you played the modules "as is."
>
<Why didn't the clerics find mysticism after the First Cataclysm?>
>
>the conclusion's pretty inescapable then. What about that cleric
>Crysania met?
It looks like he just gave up -- a plague would have been the right kind
of situation for a desperate cleric to stumble onto mysticism. Granak's
point about witch hunts discouraging mysticism is a good one.
>
<Rohan's led a sheltered life>
>
>not necessarily a good thing
My friends who've led unsheltered lives say the same thing about
themselves. The trick is not to buy the hype about either type of lifestyle.
>
<what the hell does NYC have against Melbourne?>
>>
>> Senator Clinton is unforgiving. President Guiliani will remember certain
>> remarks about NYC quality of life.
>
>sorry, but toilets are intended to *remove* waste
What's this obsession with toilets? Did those hotels you stayed in at
Boston and DC have pipe problems?
>
>> >> >> >> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
>> Nice idea. Perhaps the Beyond still operates Highlander style, and that's
>> why the gods were willing to leave to form Krynn. Maybe the High God and
>> Chaos are still operating that way.
>
>HG is probably smoking phlogiston or something. Chaos? Munchies.
More like Chaos wants to legalize recreational drugs and the High God
wants to bring back prohibition.
>
>> ><Sean shooting up Jerry Springer>
>Lethal injection? Immune. I believe most other forms are illegal even
>where you've got the death penalty. Would Jerry actually carry out an
>illegal execution on air? Does Alaska have the death penalty and can it
>be applied to insane minors?
If Sean is legally classified as a rat, then pest control laws will apply.
Jerry will be free to be innovative.
>
<With the Great Library gone, books may have been passed of as
"written by Astinus">
>
>hell yeah. Only way to explain The Companions. Betcha at least one
>entrepreneur claims Astinus quit to work for him.
Astinus is probably out on strike protesting the publication of the Dragons
of a New Age trilogy.
>
><no confidence in your own party?>
>> It's more attractive to the population when you position yourself as a
>savior.
>
>and looks a bit cynical when you vote no confidence on your own party
Reminds me of how "supportive" the Republicans here were when Newt
took the heat for allowing Starr to continue his proceedings. It didn't
matter much that the Republican party as a whole supported Ken. All
the characters who thought they had a shot at Newt's title did a Judas.
>
>> >> <Sean not only has sex, it's kinky sex>
>> Raistlin has discipline. Sean's more like Caramon on a bender.
>
>not really. He's certainly got the Faust factor going. Mainly he's
>come unstuck because of unforseen circumstances or his Rage (blessing
>and curse of his kind). He plans well and is often the Raistlin of the
>group. He can usually control himself.
Caramon turned out to be a better strategist than Raist in the end.
Remember that the greatest black robe of all time never figured out
that by beating Fist he would die just like Fist.
>
<you can't search EVERYWHERE>
>>
>> I don't have to. The 65 year old matron officer at the gate gladly take
>> care of it for me.
>
>I get to try out the Hush Puppy. Cool.
Little things make you so happy.
>
>> >crackosaur and shroomosaur sighted nearby
>>
>> Melbourne's a regular Jurassic Park.
>
>lock AND load
Dinosaurs are on the endangered species list.
>
>> ><sue yo ass>
><Judge Judy?>
>> ><SPEW>
>> >I get to pick the judge
>>
>> Then I get to pick the venue.
>
>that's what you think. Seen She-Devil?
I did. But I can demand a change in venue because of local bias --
Simon's probably annoyed that these emails cut into his PC time.
>
>> >> >> >> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were
>> >extinct by the 1st century because they were so effective.
>more like, how could they waste such a resource?
You'd think some BC era Donald Trump would have seen the money
potential in these plants. If they existed today, it'd be a strong
argument against abortion being an unnatural act.
>
<The Emperor of Ansalon imposter would kill his lovers to prevent news
of him reaching the real Ariakas>
>
>it'd add to his mystique. Maybe he can't get it up, so he's got a horde
>of lookalikes who ravish hundreds of women and enhance his reputation.
And if it's a horde, you'd have to trim down the number of conquests before
people start wondering how Ariakas can be in 10 different places at once.
<Bertrem's really a godling and only Dez can see him as he is>
>
>it's like the Prince in Distress scene from Holy Grail
Maybe after your son is done resurrecting the Fireforge clan, he can write
this one as a short story, with a Little Mermaid type ending where Gilean
lets Bertrem go so he can be happy with Dez.
>
>> >> >> <Altie prefers Python to Atkinson>
<Explanation of "O Jesus" BBC satire>
>Picture a giant circumcised phallus with Khomeini's head stuck
>under the glans.
Okay, make that the fourth item most likely to give me nightmares.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan has more friends than he lets on>
>there are probably differences of background and personality... and you
>at least could go to Bar Night
Not really -- legal age is 21 here. Since I consider myself something of an
introvert, the major difference between us is probably that I was involved
in popular extracurricular activities like journalism.
>
>> ><nuke-happy Nero?>
<Rohan gets it now>
>oopsie. Cancel that contract.
Cancelled? How sweet.
>
<Bathing for roses>
>> I bathe on a daily basis, so you can leave the roses at the door and I'll
>> pick them up when I'm done.
>
>I can arrange red roses easy, but for pink you have to be underwater
Only my lawfully wedded husband would be allowed to verify my bathtub
status. So it looks like you'll have to leave the red roses at the door.
>
<The Swiss Guards at the Vatican are ceremonial kender>
>you pull a gun and the REAL guards have shot you before you clear
>leather. If it's full scale assault time, you get to see overgrown
>kender with assault rifles.
The "real guards" are with the Pope and with the famous art pieces like The
Pieta. Just how are the kender supposed to stop you in the gardens or the
souvenier shops?
>
>> <Clancy had a tinfoil armored theme park Centurion stop a guy with
>> an UZI. The Centurion got around the tinfoil by standing behind iron>
>> That's a guy who got lucky. The Swiss Guards are supposed to be real.
>
>strangely enough the 'kender' are ceremonial...
If they were merely ceremonial, they wouldn't be guarding the entrance to
the papal audience ticket office. Granted, the stairway is narrow, but
they've got to hope they get nothing more aggressive than a put out pilgrim.
>
>> <The theme of the book was industrialists and big corporations are okay
>> and yanks can do what they please in Australia>
>>
>> What was the nature of the crime?
<Explanation of how Aussies were not allowed to catch a biological mass
murderer.>
But they did save the folks at the Sydney Olympics. If they got the perp
out of the country along with his Ebola cannisters, so much the better.
>
>> >> >> <Rub a dub dub, Dalamar enjoys the tub>
>> You've had a bad tub experience then. Nothing beats a good soak in warm
>> water in a roomy porcelain tub.
>
>'roomy.' Ours is nice and deep, but either my head and shoulders or
>knees stick out. Too short. I shower.
Shame. Whenever my neck or back hurts, lying in warm water with some
mineral salts thrown in works wonders on the muscles. Best way to
relieve tension.
<Naked pictures of Roseanne would even scare away Dalamar>
>
>then I'd have you all to myself
How romantic. Dalamar will return eventually though.
>
>> >> >> <You're not giving me nightmares Koalataur, yet>
>> >> If you're in there by yourself, it'll be more gigglefest than nightmare.
>> >
>> >that's what you think
>
>> I'll believe that when I see it.
>
><spin>
Going into a tizzy over little old me? What an adorable Koalataur you are.
>
>> >> ><right to silence or not?>
>> But if a criminal just refuses to talk, are they going to beat it out of
>him?
>
>it's a crime to not answer. And bashing may be an option.
But how does the penalty for not answering compare to being convicted?
>
>> >She'll be apples
>> <But she won't be peeled>
>
>know where that expression comes from? Convicts coring apples in
>Tasmania (aka Tasphobia)...
You're not going to be putting anything into me anytime soon dear.
>
<My colleagues from Sydney didn't rate Melbourne as a tourist spot>
>
>pack of wankers
I guess I can expect the same answer from them when I ask them
whether Melbourne is a good vacation spot.
>
<DC is an okay capital.>
<We both like the Smithsonian>
<Rohan's dad is an executive at an insurance brokerage>
Your dad and I are following somewhat similar career paths -- of course
I've still got a ways to go before I reach his level.
<When Altie was a kid, she wanted to be an astronaut>
>I wanted to join the Air Force and fly a F111-C (age about 11)
Funny how things change. The choice between writing and corporate
MIS was a much more difficult one. My favorite English professor still
rags me on it.
>
>> >> <How'd the Prez in ID4 get elected anyway?>
>> Barbara Streisand and the Hollywood contingent would have bankrolled
>> a pretty boy prez like him.
>
>don't they usually need a reason?
Hollywood? Nah. It was always rumored that Babs supported Clinton
because she had a thing for him.
>
<Lecturing the KoS on the Measure would be as bad as when Carter
lectured the Soviets>
>Carter did so quite publicly, and there were idiotic ideas like linking
>concessions to Jewish emigration etc. Otoh, it's vital to elven
>interests that the Measure be sorted out.
Let's say the elves hint to Gunthar that they want him to change the
Measure and Gunthar says I will when I'm good and ready. What
are the elves going to do to force him, and how does a chill in elven
relations impact the KoS?
>
>> >> <"I'm just too good to be true." >
>> Didn't know I had quite that effect on you. I'm flattered ... I think.
>
>the truth is in there
I'd say it is. The "I think" comes from a general concern about pointy
foreign objects anywhere near my body.
>
<Auctioning a Koalataur>
>> Fall into the wrong hands, eh? Depends on whether wrong is defined by
>> you or by the winning bidder.
>
>I've set enough plague bombs to ensure that only my descendants will
>exist on this planet next century. So defined by me.
Don't you have to have the descendants first before you save them?
>
<Kit on the cover of Cigar Afficionado>
>I don't really go into that.
You *did* bring up the humidor.
> But she certainly does tequila shots.
Isn't tequila on Krynn a continuity violation? Or is she getting it from
spelljamming merchants?
>
>> >> <Kevin Smith gets to protect my civil liberties. Yum>
>> >right now he's on the moon
>>
>> Erik Thomson will do then.
>
>never heard of him. And he strayed into the Ronan Keating clip just
>before Sean decided to change the script with a Magnum
Darn. I'm not all that fond of Tom Cruise to have him come to my rescue.
>
>> >> >> >> <The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
>> The craving is usually for sweets first. Later Chaos may go for something
>> substantial.
>
>not bad. Lollies all over the place, then a nice square meal of Hill
>Dwarf, followed by plenty of canned stuff.
Krynnish lollies and canned food? Chaos is spelljamming too? Have the
gnomes invented the can-opener? Of course, a gnomish can-opener would
end up looking more like a chainsaw.
And Chaos probably would want a side of mashed potatoes with that dwarf,
since it would make for some gamey, tough eating.
>
>> <Sturm risked placing the heroes in danger when he wouldn't shave>
>> >they were able to solve the problem with a scarf. And a couple of 6'
>> >warriors credible as women?
>>
>> Lucy Lawless, anybody?
>
>still obviously a woman
All right then. How about Margaret McGregor, the lady boxer? Because
of her training regimen, she'd be virtually indistinguishable from a man if
she dressed like Sturm or Caramon.
>
>> <Linsha's disguised as a sell sword and feels guilty about lying to a man
>> she likes.>
>
>so she's one of those Frankenstein Majeres?
By your definition, she is. It looks like Linsha is one of the reasons why
the KoS is holding together in the Age of Mortals.
>> Jesuit methodology is more reminiscent of the "foot soldier of Paladine"
>> concept that drives the KoS. The Templars broke the rules when needed
>> and were more LoS like.
>
>aren't the Jesuits a semisecret order? One thing I liked about Man in
>the Iron Mask...
At that point in time it was fully secret. The Jesuits were created to
combat Protestantism, to the point where some of them were dispatched
to assassinate Elizabeth I. That wasn't considered murder because
Liz was a threat to the faith.
Jesuits are mostly scholars and teachers today. The secrecy is gone
except for guys who perform exorcisms and investigate special situations.
>
>> <Gunthar needs the elves as much as they need him>
<The dwarves won't support the KoS if the elves don't>
>the dwarves wouldn't give the KoS concessions without a guarantee that
>the elves won't try anything.
What's the precedent for it? It's not like the KoS was policing elf-dwarf
relations during the WotL.
>
>> >> >> <Tanis and Laurana worked together because Tanis isn't a diplomat>
>> <Laurana handles the elves more because they still look down on Tanis>
<Tanis was likely Laurana's bodyguard at the elven court>
<Distance forced Tanis and Laurana to choose their diplomatic posts
based on the most receptive audience>
>perhaps. Still, Laurana has close friends at the top of both totems
Agreed. And she probably did join Tanis on some missions and vice versa.
>
<what's wrong with jeans around the office?>
>> Against the rules. Jeans are considered too casual for an HQ.
>dress pants, pastel shirt and loafers. I'd feel overdressed and freak.
Suits every day took a little getting used to. Since my casual
attire was just like yours, the switch to business casual was a
major alteration to my wardrobe.
>
>> Bond bimbos are not normal women.
>
>would've never guessed.
Stop using them as a base case for normal women then.
<James Bond is doing things no geriatric spy should be able to do>
So Gunthar being able to kill a boar at 100 is not an isolated incident.
>
>> >> >> <Superman is just as normal as Sword>
>> Supes has lied and used subterfuge on occasion. What he won't do is
>> kill without reason.
>
>neither will Sword. However, would Supes screw around with the law?
Maybe I should rephrase that. Supes would never rationalize the law
to accomodate murder.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan's son: The Cheesemaster>
>> Just giving your death by disembowlment some meaning is all.
>
>oh, I'd make sure you'd be serving me in heaven...
Serve you to who? Why would St. Peter want to dine on Rohan
Tolstrup intestines?
>
>> >> >> <Only the long term fans over 20s are likely to live if WoS sucks>
><rpgs replaced by machines>
>> >pass the wakizashi, or do you want to go first?
>>
>> You go ahead. Somebody has to tidy up when you're done.
>
>have fun
I'll be sure to send what's left of you back home.
>
>> >> >> >> <Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
>> <Morten asked for FAQ feedback the other day>
>> He didn't get that many takers when he tried overhauling it the last time.
>
>instead he hauls over it
So few people seem to read it that I don't blame him for not putting it out
like he used to. I can count on the fingers of my right hand the number of
people who asked for the FAQ in the past year.
>
>> >> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
>> Am I going to have to read the 100 plus posts that we've gone through
>> together or are you going to cut me some slack and just tell me?
>
>ok. Bloke who walked into the underage female boxing match and wasted
>the guy getting blown.
I'd already mentioned that the boxing match didn't faze me. And wasting
that guy was a good thing. You can't shock me anymore.
>
>> >> >> <Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.>
>> Thought you were against the big corporation winning?
>
>as a big man I dislike the imagery. It's not realistic anyway.
As a petite woman the imagery rocks. The bigger they come, the
harder they fall.
>
>> >> >> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
>you're going to go after *Sword*?
No, I'll just set up the contract.
>
<Sean and Sword go after Guen>
Guen's got an indestructible posse. My money is on Twinkle.
>
>> >I've also got photos of Santa getting it on with the Easter Bunny.
>>
>> Coal and no Easter candy. How depressing.
>
>ever heard of blackmail?
Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's. No one's ever
found his base at the North Pole.
>
>> >> Anyone who offers me a hand in conversation gets a finger in response.
>> >
>> >that's not very polite
>>
>> neither is the hand.
>
>my hand's very expressive and I do a lot of important stuff with it.
Scratching yourself in public is not polite.
>
>> >> >> <Koalas only eat poop when looney or stressed>
>> >> Left over pizza gives one the runs instead of a buzz.
>> >
>> >ever heard of nuking it?
>>
>> Then it's a warm gooey mess that gives you the runs.
>
>thought you had a good Italian industry
One of the best. Produces handsome Italians, among other things. But
I never liked left over pizza. The cheese just seems to go bitterish.
>> >> >> >> <Sean and Vee, together again>
>> >this is all happening in mid-late '98!
>>
>> Pre-emptive strike.
>
>that's not very nice. And remember Danger Sense. He's got a white suit
>and an eyepatch.
But it didn't help him in 98, did it?
>
>> >> >> >> <Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
>> >some girls just don't know how to clean dirty laundry
>> Some clothes are just unsalvageable and should be thrown out.
>
>hire a killer dammit!
Jail would end a promising directorial career.
>
>> <Hostage situation>
>I'm not talking about it from the gunman's PoV. He's dead.
Now you've lost me. If the gunman is dead why is there even still an issue?
>
<Rohan's missed the signal>
>> You mean you haven't already? Perhaps you aren't ready, my young
>> Padawan learner.
>
>I hate Star Wars!
You should stay with it until Episode 5 and find out how Anakin manages
to pick up the signal.
>
>> >> >> <Enforcing feline discipline with a super soaker>
>> >> >> >you're an American. Use a .45 Uzi.
>>
>> No, my kitty laughs at danger. She won't dance under duress.
>
>how about for catnip laced with angel dust?
She doesn't need the angel dust. Vee's a hopeless catnip addict.
>thinking of getting a commission
Difference between that and enlisting? It's a serious question.
>> Are you doomed to glasses, or can you do the lasik corrective surgery?
>
>beats the hell outta me. They mentioned bringing a cast eye back in,
>but that's just cosmetic.
It doesn't seem right if they can keep you out because of a lazy eye.
Some of my friends have corrected nearsightedness through surgery and
all but one recommends it. That last person lost his nightvision because
of it. I wouldn't do it personally, but then I won't learn how to drive
either.
>
>> >is it different to a contract?
>>
>> Not all jobs are contractual. Mine, for example. As long as I don't
>> commit a crime, I can leave when I want to.
>
>you've got the option of another job I believe?
Yes I do. Granted, I'm talking from a totally different life experience since
I had a job waiting for me when I graduated. Maybe I just think you're
incredibly down on yourself.
>> >Besides, I'd be the first of my family in living memory to be a
>> >commissioned officer.
>>
>>Why'd you go in as an officer, though -- is there such a thing as
>> ADF ROTC?
>
>there's a Reserve scheme of course. In my case it's "I can become a
>soldier? Cool!"
Sounds like your mind is already made up, so you should just go for it.
I still have twinges of regret that I didn't pursue a writing career.
>
>> >> >> <Keeping Bunsen in line>
>> Most likely Morten would delegate Bunsen clean up to you. He does
>> have the FAQ to maintain.
>
>think I'll take the status quo
As a teacher, he might be able to help you with your homework.
<Not a good idea to push a candidate who has to be hand fed.>
>> >
>> >Kennedy and Reagan being the most popular...
>>
>> First term Reagan was in possession of all his faculties. And Kennedy
>> doing what he pleased was probably what got him killed.
>
>hasta la vista Abie
Kennedy was more of a loose cannon than Abe. There was some
merit in Abe's goal of keeping the US together. Most likely some
European power would have conquered a divided North and South.
>
>> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
>> The US has a habit of picking the minor nations that neighboring countries
>> wouldn't mind seeing in chaos.
>
>and if the Brits had their own diplomatic efforts with say the Saudis?
It might have changed things, if only because the backing of the Brits
and the Saudis means that particular country is off limits. But there is
very little that the US does that it doesn't share with Great Britain.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan's cop shows are letting him down again>
>> <Simon's a free man>
>> Maybe a computer is the best way to go for the parental birthday gift.
>
>I'm not feeling that rich
*Parental* birthday gift, dear. Are you adopting Simon?
>
>He's hunting in my room, probably for my gun. It's under the computer
>desk but I'd better go.
Too late. Simon has all the blackmail material he needs.
>
>Rohan "I am God" Tolstrup
Atheism suddenly has some compelling arguments going for it.
>
>WTF with the list?
Don't know. Haven't gottent the digest this weekend.
Altarielle
writes:
>Now that the gods are gone, I'd think, there are no level limits, there
>can be psionics, sorcery, mysticism, and potential god-like mortals who
>ascend to what should be the age of mortals. So, at this point, i
>believe that krynnfolk are people destined to be gods, who need to grow
>into their true power over time.
Two thoughts popped into my head when I read this. The first is that Malys
may have been born in a land where no rules were in place -- maybe a first
experiment in creation, since the dragons were the first born of the gods.
Malys' unusual size and power may mean she is further along the path to
godhood.
The second was the destruction of the Kingpriest. Perhaps the Kingpriest
was the first mortal to practice mysticism and he just didn't realize it. It
would make sense that the gods would go to such lengths to destroy a man
whose power they can't "turn off." It would also explain why the gods stopped
granting spells to every cleric except the one causing the trouble.
>
>Speaking of god hood, take a look at Raistlin in the Legends Trilogy.
>Did anyone notice that Raistlin (although he kicked butt) seemed to be
>trapped. In Reavers of the Blood Sea, as well as other books, there is
>mention that the Gods exist on several planes. Yet in Legends, Raistlin
>only seemed to exist on one plane, that which has Krynn destroyed. I
>wonder, if Raistlin was a god, why didn't he just jump to a different
>plane when he defeated the gods. Logically, Raistlin was either
>unwilling, or unable to do so. If Raistlin was unable to, then
>something prevented him, or raistlin didn't have enough power to do so.
>
>Very interesting, huh?
I think so. I've always thought the High God had a hand in Raistlin's fate.
Perhaps, if Caramon had failed, the High God would have sealed Raistlin
in that one plane, to prevent him from destroying the rest of the universe
or maybe the Beyond itself.
If we speculate that the gods' original mission was to nurture future godlings
(in the form of Krynnish mortals) a Raistlin victory may have even been a
divine punishment of sorts, for placing restrictions that stood in the way of
mortal progress toward eventual divinity.
Tolstrup
> <Who wants to follow the books by rote when gaming?>
never got to. You need a regular non-club group, and I've only been
able to get games at all through clubs. I've got a shitload of useless
stuff on my shelves.
> <Why didn't the clerics find mysticism after the First Cataclysm?>
> >the conclusion's pretty inescapable then. What about that cleric
> >Crysania met?
> It looks like he just gave up -- a plague would have been the right kind
> of situation for a desperate cleric to stumble onto mysticism. Granak's
> point about witch hunts discouraging mysticism is a good one.
yep. The best explanation is that the 5A designers didn't think about
what they were doing - ignore the original work and copy from BR.
> <Rohan's led a sheltered life>
> >not necessarily a good thing
grass is always greener
> <what the hell does NYC have against Melbourne?>
> >sorry, but toilets are intended to *remove* waste
>
> What's this obsession with toilets? Did those hotels you stayed in at
> Boston and DC have pipe problems?
the problems were catering related, and we got a fire alarm in Boston.
> >> >> >> >> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
> >HG is probably smoking phlogiston or something. Chaos? Munchies.
>
> More like Chaos wants to legalize recreational drugs and the High God
> wants to bring back prohibition.
Vote 1 Chaos
> >> ><Sean shooting up Jerry Springer>
> >Lethal injection? Immune. I believe most other forms are illegal even
> >where you've got the death penalty. Would Jerry actually carry out an
> >illegal execution on air? Does Alaska have the death penalty and can it
> >be applied to insane minors?
>
> If Sean is legally classified as a rat, then pest control laws will apply.
> Jerry will be free to be innovative.
he's an American citizen legally classified as a human. And having the
ASPCA all over Senator Shithead would not be good.
> <With the Great Library gone, books may have been passed of as
> "written by Astinus">
> >
> >hell yeah. Only way to explain The Companions. Betcha at least one
> >entrepreneur claims Astinus quit to work for him.
>
> Astinus is probably out on strike protesting the publication of the Dragons
> of a New Age trilogy.
or seeking legal advice over Soulforge - from the La Trobe 'crats
> ><no confidence in your own party?>
> >and looks a bit cynical when you vote no confidence on your own party
>
> Reminds me of how "supportive" the Republicans here were when Newt
> took the heat for allowing Starr to continue his proceedings. It didn't
> matter much that the Republican party as a whole supported Ken. All
> the characters who thought they had a shot at Newt's title did a Judas.
starting to see why the Veep doesn't preside over impeachment trials...
> >> >> <Sean not only has sex, it's kinky sex>
> >> Raistlin has discipline. Sean's more like Caramon on a bender.
> >
> >not really. He's certainly got the Faust factor going. Mainly he's
> >come unstuck because of unforseen circumstances or his Rage (blessing
> >and curse of his kind). He plans well and is often the Raistlin of the
> >group. He can usually control himself.
>
> Caramon turned out to be a better strategist than Raist in the end.
> Remember that the greatest black robe of all time never figured out
> that by beating Fist he would die just like Fist.
sounds like Sean's kind of flaw, although he wouldn't be arrogant enough
to go after Fisty and Takhy in the first place, and certainly wouldn't
take that kind of risk.
> <you can't search EVERYWHERE>
> >>
> >> I don't have to. The 65 year old matron officer at the gate gladly take
> >> care of it for me.
> >
> >I get to try out the Hush Puppy. Cool.
>
> Little things make you so happy.
<thunk>
> >> >crackosaur and shroomosaur sighted nearby
> >>
> >> Melbourne's a regular Jurassic Park.
> >
> >lock AND load
>
> Dinosaurs are on the endangered species list.
only for kids. Somehow they didn't make it into Aussie law.
> >> ><sue yo ass>
> >> Then I get to pick the venue.
> >
> >that's what you think. Seen She-Devil?
>
> I did. But I can demand a change in venue because of local bias --
> Simon's probably annoyed that these emails cut into his PC time.
the trial will take place on my private island
> >> >> >> >> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were
> >> >extinct by the 1st century because they were so effective.
> >more like, how could they waste such a resource?
>
> You'd think some BC era Donald Trump would have seen the money
> potential in these plants. If they existed today, it'd be a strong
> argument against abortion being an unnatural act.
it's still taking poison. Any indication on how consumer friendly they
were? Sounds like a great way of killing oneself.
> <The Emperor of Ansalon imposter would kill his lovers to prevent news
> of him reaching the real Ariakas>
> >it'd add to his mystique. Maybe he can't get it up, so he's got a horde
> >of lookalikes who ravish hundreds of women and enhance his reputation.
> And if it's a horde, you'd have to trim down the number of conquests before
> people start wondering how Ariakas can be in 10 different places at once.
he's got a rota, but people in Lemish are unlikely to talk to those from
around Flotsam.
> <Bertrem's really a godling and only Dez can see him as he is>
> >it's like the Prince in Distress scene from Holy Grail
>
> Maybe after your son is done resurrecting the Fireforge clan, he can write
> this one as a short story, with a Little Mermaid type ending where Gilean
> lets Bertrem go so he can be happy with Dez.
I'm going to have to kill him
> >> >> >> <Altie prefers Python to Atkinson>
> <Explanation of "O Jesus" BBC satire>
>
> >Picture a giant circumcised phallus with Khomeini's head stuck
> >under the glans.
>
> Okay, make that the fourth item most likely to give me nightmares.
prozac and tylenol just became illegal
> >> >> >> <Rohan has more friends than he lets on>
> >there are probably differences of background and personality... and you
> >at least could go to Bar Night
>
> Not really -- legal age is 21 here. Since I consider myself something of an
> introvert, the major difference between us is probably that I was involved
> in popular extracurricular activities like journalism.
I never had the out of class time to hang around campus
> >> ><nuke-happy Nero?>
> <Rohan gets it now>
> >oopsie. Cancel that contract.
> Cancelled? How sweet.
yeah, I'd better not sell nukes to Nero after all. But what do I do
with the time machine?
> <Bathing for roses>
> >I can arrange red roses easy, but for pink you have to be underwater
>
> Only my lawfully wedded husband would be allowed to verify my bathtub
> status. So it looks like you'll have to leave the red roses at the door.
I'll deliver the pink rose and falsify the marriage documents later.
Besides, the pink rose requires you to be wearing something pale anyway.
> <The Swiss Guards at the Vatican are ceremonial kender>
> >you pull a gun and the REAL guards have shot you before you clear
> >leather. If it's full scale assault time, you get to see overgrown
> >kender with assault rifles.
>
> The "real guards" are with the Pope and with the famous art pieces like The
> Pieta. Just how are the kender supposed to stop you in the gardens or the
> souvenier shops?
they aren't, their armed backup (a few metres from anywhere they care
about) is. They can do normal policing stuff, it only matters where
somebody's actually going to try and kneecap 'em.
> >> <Clancy had a tinfoil armored theme park Centurion stop a guy with
> >> an UZI. The Centurion got around the tinfoil by standing behind iron>
> >> That's a guy who got lucky. The Swiss Guards are supposed to be real.
> >
> >strangely enough the 'kender' are ceremonial...
>
> If they were merely ceremonial, they wouldn't be guarding the entrance to
> the papal audience ticket office. Granted, the stairway is narrow, but
> they've got to hope they get nothing more aggressive than a put out pilgrim.
halberds are quite nasty, and they can probably have a pistol handy.
Didn't Da Vinci design those uniforms?
> >> <The theme of the book was industrialists and big corporations are okay
> >> and yanks can do what they please in Australia>
> <Explanation of how Aussies were not allowed to catch a biological mass
> murderer.>
>
> But they did save the folks at the Sydney Olympics. If they got the perp
> out of the country along with his Ebola cannisters, so much the better.
he wasn't charged due to American political considerations. Aussies
would've been able to throw away the key. Instead there was a cheesy
ending where the 'evil greenies' were forced to survive in the jungle
naked - murder is better than the rule of law.
> >> >> >> <Rub a dub dub, Dalamar enjoys the tub>
> >'roomy.' Ours is nice and deep, but either my head and shoulders or
> >knees stick out. Too short. I shower.
>
> Shame. Whenever my neck or back hurts, lying in warm water with some
> mineral salts thrown in works wonders on the muscles. Best way to
> relieve tension.
the Glock 17 is even better. So compact, so easy to use
> <Naked pictures of Roseanne would even scare away Dalamar>
> >then I'd have you all to myself
>
> How romantic. Dalamar will return eventually though.
got a busload of female inmates waiting for him downstairs
> >> >> >> <You're not giving me nightmares Koalataur, yet>
> ><spin>
>
> Going into a tizzy over little old me? What an adorable Koalataur you are.
I'm sure I can physically shrink you and age you a decade or so
> >> >> ><right to silence or not?>
> >it's a crime to not answer. And bashing may be an option.
>
> But how does the penalty for not answering compare to being convicted?
presumably it's gotta be pretty high
> >> >She'll be apples
> >> <But she won't be peeled>
> >
> >know where that expression comes from? Convicts coring apples in
> >Tasmania (aka Tasphobia)...
> You're not going to be putting anything into me anytime soon dear.
bugger
> <My colleagues from Sydney didn't rate Melbourne as a tourist spot>
> >
> >pack of wankers
>
> I guess I can expect the same answer from them when I ask them
> whether Melbourne is a good vacation spot.
don't forget a gun. And check your valuables afterwards
> <DC is an okay capital.>
> <We both like the Smithsonian>
> <Rohan's dad is an executive at an insurance brokerage>
>
> Your dad and I are following somewhat similar career paths -- of course
> I've still got a ways to go before I reach his level.
der. He's a director thinking of retirement.
> <When Altie was a kid, she wanted to be an astronaut>
> >I wanted to join the Air Force and fly a F111-C (age about 11)
>
> Funny how things change. The choice between writing and corporate
> MIS was a much more difficult one. My favorite English professor still
> rags me on it.
what the hell is MIS? In my case, I run on uncertain inertia
> >> >> <How'd the Prez in ID4 get elected anyway?>
> >> Barbara Streisand and the Hollywood contingent would have bankrolled
> >> a pretty boy prez like him.
> >
> >don't they usually need a reason?
>
> Hollywood? Nah. It was always rumored that Babs supported Clinton
> because she had a thing for him.
that's just disgusting
> >Carter did so quite publicly, and there were idiotic ideas like linking
> >concessions to Jewish emigration etc. Otoh, it's vital to elven
> >interests that the Measure be sorted out.
>
> Let's say the elves hint to Gunthar that they want him to change the
> Measure and Gunthar says I will when I'm good and ready. What
> are the elves going to do to force him, and how does a chill in elven
> relations impact the KoS?
a good politician saves his bravado for the public arena. Gunthar would
not be that stupid.
> >> >> <"I'm just too good to be true." >
> >> Didn't know I had quite that effect on you. I'm flattered ... I think.
> >
> >the truth is in there
>
> I'd say it is. The "I think" comes from a general concern about pointy
> foreign objects anywhere near my body.
okay, I'll make the scalpels out of your fingerbones. Satisfied?
> <Auctioning a Koalataur>
> >> Fall into the wrong hands, eh? Depends on whether wrong is defined by
> >> you or by the winning bidder.
> >
> >I've set enough plague bombs to ensure that only my descendants will
> >exist on this planet next century. So defined by me.
>
> Don't you have to have the descendants first before you save them?
IVF rocks
> <Kit on the cover of Cigar Afficionado>
> >I don't really go into that.
> You *did* bring up the humidor.
okay, she's a female Clinton
> > But she certainly does tequila shots.
>
> Isn't tequila on Krynn a continuity violation? Or is she getting it from
> spelljamming merchants?
Krynnish equivalent. They don't have tobacco leaves either iirc.
> >> Erik Thomson will do then.
> >
> >never heard of him. And he strayed into the Ronan Keating clip just
> >before Sean decided to change the script with a Magnum
>
> Darn. I'm not all that fond of Tom Cruise to have him come to my rescue.
personally I'd prefer a *real* lawyer...
And after hearing that !@#$%^& Jerry Maguire song just a little too much
I'm afraid Sean did something unpleasant to him.
> >> >> >> >> <The Graygem's full of crack and that explains Chaos' mood>
> >not bad. Lollies all over the place, then a nice square meal of Hill
> >Dwarf, followed by plenty of canned stuff.
> Krynnish lollies and canned food? Chaos is spelljamming too? Have the
> gnomes invented the can-opener? Of course, a gnomish can-opener would
> end up looking more like a chainsaw.
Thorbardin's one big can
> And Chaos probably would want a side of mashed potatoes with that dwarf,
> since it would make for some gamey, tough eating.
Abanasinia has some decent sized crops
> >> <Sturm risked placing the heroes in danger when he wouldn't shave>
> >> Lucy Lawless, anybody?
> >
> >still obviously a woman
>
> All right then. How about Margaret McGregor, the lady boxer? Because
> of her training regimen, she'd be virtually indistinguishable from a man if
> she dressed like Sturm or Caramon.
true. But you couldn't really mistake those two for women
> >> <Linsha's disguised as a sell sword and feels guilty about lying to a man
> >> she likes.>
> >
> >so she's one of those Frankenstein Majeres?
>
> By your definition, she is. It looks like Linsha is one of the reasons why
> the KoS is holding together in the Age of Mortals.
what, artificial handwringing and a Majere Complex?
> >aren't the Jesuits a semisecret order? One thing I liked about Man in
> >the Iron Mask...
> Jesuits are mostly scholars and teachers today. The secrecy is gone
> except for guys who perform exorcisms and investigate special situations.
I understand their leader is still secret. And we *know* the Vatican
still has its own assassins.
> >the dwarves wouldn't give the KoS concessions without a guarantee that
> >the elves won't try anything.
> What's the precedent for it? It's not like the KoS was policing elf-dwarf
> relations during the WotL.
2nd Gen was quite explicit that all three groups were needed to work.
> <Distance forced Tanis and Laurana to choose their diplomatic posts
> based on the most receptive audience>
>
> >perhaps. Still, Laurana has close friends at the top of both totems
>
> Agreed. And she probably did join Tanis on some missions and vice versa.
only way that makes sense
> <what's wrong with jeans around the office?>
> >> Against the rules. Jeans are considered too casual for an HQ.
> >dress pants, pastel shirt and loafers. I'd feel overdressed and freak.
>
> Suits every day took a little getting used to. Since my casual
> attire was just like yours, the switch to business casual was a
> major alteration to my wardrobe.
how many women are your size?
> >> Bond bimbos are not normal women.
> >
> >would've never guessed.
>
> Stop using them as a base case for normal women then.
I wasn't, I hope. His score has been three, and two of them have tried
to kill him. There's even been a 'before I kill you' scene.
> <James Bond is doing things no geriatric spy should be able to do>
>
> So Gunthar being able to kill a boar at 100 is not an isolated incident.
not something I want to see in DL. The car is designed for undercover
work and can change colour and plates electronically. However, it's a
latest model Jaguar coupe, about the only one in Greece. *Every*
ridiculous cliche has found its way into the text. Explain to me again
why a spy needs a car that launches missiles and a minelaying drone.
> >> >> >> <Superman is just as normal as Sword>
> Maybe I should rephrase that. Supes would never rationalize the law
> to accomodate murder.
Sword doesn't really believe in Clear and *Present* Danger. If the bad
guy has to die, then it doesn't matter if he's unarmed.
> >> >> >> <Rohan's son: The Cheesemaster>
> >> Just giving your death by disembowlment some meaning is all.
> >
> >oh, I'd make sure you'd be serving me in heaven...
>
> Serve you to who? Why would St. Peter want to dine on Rohan
> Tolstrup intestines?
they closed Valhalla?
> >> >> >> <Only the long term fans over 20s are likely to live if WoS sucks>
> ><rpgs replaced by machines>
> >> >pass the wakizashi, or do you want to go first?
> >>
> >> You go ahead. Somebody has to tidy up when you're done.
> >
> >have fun
>
> I'll be sure to send what's left of you back home.
I'll make sure to do it in your flat after ripping open a few kilos of
cocaine around the place
> >> >> >> >> <Why is Rohan chasing Morten with a pitchfork?>
> >> <Morten asked for FAQ feedback the other day>
> >> He didn't get that many takers when he tried overhauling it the last time.
> >
> >instead he hauls over it
>
> So few people seem to read it that I don't blame him for not putting it out
> like he used to. I can count on the fingers of my right hand the number of
> people who asked for the FAQ in the past year.
people cease to care about DL
> >> >> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
> >> Am I going to have to read the 100 plus posts that we've gone through
> >> together or are you going to cut me some slack and just tell me?
> >
> >ok. Bloke who walked into the underage female boxing match and wasted
> >the guy getting blown.
>
> I'd already mentioned that the boxing match didn't faze me. And wasting
> that guy was a good thing. You can't shock me anymore.
perhaps morally ambiguous to pull a head shot on the girl blowing him
> >> >> >> <Speedy can't die. It's not part of his WB contract.>
> >> Thought you were against the big corporation winning?
> >
> >as a big man I dislike the imagery. It's not realistic anyway.
>
> As a petite woman the imagery rocks. The bigger they come, the
> harder they fall.
misses the point. Napoleon anybody?
> >> >> >> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
> >you're going to go after *Sword*?
>
> No, I'll just set up the contract.
you've got the contacts? He'd certainly trace it back to you.
> <Sean and Sword go after Guen>
>
> Guen's got an indestructible posse. My money is on Twinkle.
grenade launchers are cool. High Explosive Dual Purpose.
> >> >I've also got photos of Santa getting it on with the Easter Bunny.
> >>
> >> Coal and no Easter candy. How depressing.
> >
> >ever heard of blackmail?
>
> Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's. No one's ever
> found his base at the North Pole.
it's in Greenland iirc. Or ever occur to them to look underwater?
> >my hand's very expressive and I do a lot of important stuff with it.
>
> Scratching yourself in public is not polite.
er, other than that
> >> >> >> <Koalas only eat poop when looney or stressed>
> >> Then it's a warm gooey mess that gives you the runs.
> >
> >thought you had a good Italian industry
>
> One of the best. Produces handsome Italians, among other things. But
> I never liked left over pizza. The cheese just seems to go bitterish.
American cheese
> >> >> >> >> <Sean and Vee, together again>
> >> >this is all happening in mid-late '98!
> >>
> >> Pre-emptive strike.
> >
> >that's not very nice. And remember Danger Sense. He's got a white suit
> >and an eyepatch.
>
> But it didn't help him in 98, did it?
he's only just acquired it
> >> >> >> >> <Jodie Foster can play Bupu as Nell>
> >> >some girls just don't know how to clean dirty laundry
> >> Some clothes are just unsalvageable and should be thrown out.
> >
> >hire a killer dammit!
>
> Jail would end a promising directorial career.
give Reagan a gun then
> >> <Hostage situation>
> >I'm not talking about it from the gunman's PoV. He's dead.
>
> Now you've lost me. If the gunman is dead why is there even still an issue?
he's dead if he does anything except surrender, assuming the opposition
want him alive
> <Rohan's missed the signal>
> >> You mean you haven't already? Perhaps you aren't ready, my young
> >> Padawan learner.
> >
> >I hate Star Wars!
>
> You should stay with it until Episode 5 and find out how Anakin manages
> to pick up the signal.
diediediediediediediediediediediediediediedie
> >> >> >> <Enforcing feline discipline with a super soaker>
> >> >> >> >you're an American. Use a .45 Uzi.
> >>
> >> No, my kitty laughs at danger. She won't dance under duress.
> >
> >how about for catnip laced with angel dust?
>
> She doesn't need the angel dust. Vee's a hopeless catnip addict.
play with her mind then
> >thinking of getting a commission
>
> Difference between that and enlisting? It's a serious question.
my name on some list voted on by Parliament. Also I'd actually be
holding an official position under the Commonwealth.
> >> Are you doomed to glasses, or can you do the lasik corrective surgery?
> >
> >beats the hell outta me. They mentioned bringing a cast eye back in,
> >but that's just cosmetic.
>
> It doesn't seem right if they can keep you out because of a lazy eye.
> Some of my friends have corrected nearsightedness through surgery and
> all but one recommends it. That last person lost his nightvision because
> of it. I wouldn't do it personally, but then I won't learn how to drive
> either.
driving is cool. Maybe I should see my optometrist, I'm about due
> >> >is it different to a contract?
> >you've got the option of another job I believe?
>
> Yes I do. Granted, I'm talking from a totally different life experience since
> I had a job waiting for me when I graduated. Maybe I just think you're
> incredibly down on yourself.
basically I'm trapped in a job any way you look at it
> >> >Besides, I'd be the first of my family in living memory to be a
> >> >commissioned officer.
> >there's a Reserve scheme of course. In my case it's "I can become a
> >soldier? Cool!"
>
> Sounds like your mind is already made up, so you should just go for it.
> I still have twinges of regret that I didn't pursue a writing career.
something I found out last week. Dunno if I'd actually follow through.
> >> >> >> <Keeping Bunsen in line>
> >think I'll take the status quo
>
> As a teacher, he might be able to help you with your homework.
my academic skills are reasonable
> <Not a good idea to push a candidate who has to be hand fed.>
> >> First term Reagan was in possession of all his faculties. And Kennedy
> >> doing what he pleased was probably what got him killed.
> >
> >hasta la vista Abie
>
> Kennedy was more of a loose cannon than Abe. There was some
> merit in Abe's goal of keeping the US together. Most likely some
> European power would have conquered a divided North and South.
Abe was a fruitcake who treated legitimate secession as a crime. Why
shouldn't the South be able to secede?
> >> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
> >> The US has a habit of picking the minor nations that neighboring countries
> >> wouldn't mind seeing in chaos.
> >
> >and if the Brits had their own diplomatic efforts with say the Saudis?
>
> It might have changed things, if only because the backing of the Brits
> and the Saudis means that particular country is off limits. But there is
> very little that the US does that it doesn't share with Great Britain.
in any event, some US ally was dealing with Libya
> >> >> >> <Rohan's cop shows are letting him down again>
> >> <Simon's a free man>
> >> Maybe a computer is the best way to go for the parental birthday gift.
> >
> >I'm not feeling that rich
> *Parental* birthday gift, dear. Are you adopting Simon?
he's got his own laptop, which he never uses.
> >He's hunting in my room, probably for my gun. It's under the computer
> >desk but I'd better go.
>
> Too late. Simon has all the blackmail material he needs.
that's what he thinks
> >Rohan "I am God" Tolstrup
>
> Atheism suddenly has some compelling arguments going for it.
we need a God For A Day competition
> >WTF with the list?
>
> Don't know. Haven't gottent the digest this weekend.
it's unbelievable. I understand my last message wasn't even delivered
Rohan Tolstrup
Morten Brattbakk
Weldon Chen <gran...@slip.net> skrev
> Well, it was my impression that Good, and Evil, with the capital letters
> represented the Gods positions on how morality in the Krynn universe
> works. For example,
> Good -> Following/believing Paladine
> -> Redeeming one's own
> -> Helping other people
> and
> Evil -> Following/believing Takhisis
> -> Devouring/destroying things
> -> making oneself more powerful
>
> The words are capitalized because that's Paladine and Takhisis' brand of
> morality. It's almost like seeing Good(tm) and Evil(tm).
I understand that, but that doesn't make it any better. What's even worse
was that this abominable habit spread among the writers *after* the gods
left Krynn and the morals became less absolute.
BTW, how does "for the Good of Silvanesti" fit into Good(tm)?
> Then there's our terran definitions of good and evil, which is nebulous
> at best. For example, the Kingpriest was Good, but he is also evil.
> Good in terms of believing Paladine, but evil because he was oppressive,
> genocidal, and cataclysmic prone, effectively responsible for a lot of
> destruction. I get the impression, this capitalization of Good and Evil
> came about because of all the confusion on this newgroup and the mailing
> list.
I find that hard to believe, since such capitalization hasn't been used
explicitly to clear anything like the morality of the Kingpriest at all.
You seem to differentiate "Good" and "good", by saying that the Kingpriest
was Good, but evil. I know what you mean, but in some products like Odyssey
and Sylvan Veil those adjectives are *always* spelled with a capital
lettter as if they've been fed into the spell checkers of all WotC
employees.
I get the impression that someone at TSR got the good idea to put Good and
Evil in TotL, and whenever TotL says jump, the 5A designers hit the
ceiling, no matter how far out it is.
BTW, doesn't Ravenloft have the Good/Evil cheesyness, too? What about the
other settings? Is this some kind of conforming Krynn again?
> Actually, I don't mind the Good/good/Evil/evil as long as it's more
> closely followed or consistent so it doesn't confuse people.
But it's not. Only in the rarest of cases, such as "the Gods of Good" was
these words capitalised in early material, sometimes not even then.
> As i see
> it, the capitalization means the word is now a proper noun officially
> naming something, in the same way Mr. Smith and a smith are two
> different things/people.
I see what you mean. But if that example should be part of the current
capitalization practices at the WotC offices, Theros Ironfeld would have
been working as a Smith. They're overdoing waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy too much.
> I think in an age where the Gods of Good (note the captialization)
> abandoned Krynn, a differentiation between the Gods' Brand of Morality
> and the peoples brand of morality become much more important.
I have to wonder. Usually in most material except TotL and that by Stan!
and Steve and Miranda Horner, "good" and "evil" was practically always
used, except in some very few cases. The current 5A material *always* use
"Good" and "Evil". Not only is it unbelievable and inconsistent with all
earlier DL material, it also makes me cringe every f***ing time I read it,
no matter if you succeed in rationalizing its use (which you haven't.) I
cringed quite a lot during Odyssey and Sylvan Veil, as you probably
understand, and that did diminish the enjoyment of those products for me.
Morten
Steve Miller
<< The words are capitalized because that's Paladine and Takhisis' brand of
morality. It's almost like seeing Good(tm) and Evil(tm). >>
I suspect you're absolutely correct. However, it's not correct to have EVERY
occurance of good and evil capped. That's what Morten was complaining about, I
suspect.
Steve Miller
<< Everything matters. The powers of the *leader* of the Dragonarmies during
the WotL doesn't matter? >>
His CLASS doesn't matter... unless, of course, you are willing to take the
position that the DL novels are so crappy that one can hear the dice rolling in
the background.
And if EVERYTHING matters, then why are you go into coniptions over a
throw-away reference in DL12 being changed in 'Odyssey,' but don't do a similar
thing over Marquesta Kar-Thon raiding ships sailing out of Tarsis? (Or should
"DL Classics" have been changed to to give Tarsis a "sailing season"?
<< I agree with Rohan
that Chronicles should be considered "canon" since they have such a major
position among the readership compared to *all* other DL books and game
material. >>
Your welcome to your opinion. I felt (and feel) no motivation to share it.
<< The more other authors distances themselves from the Chronicles
by contradicting it and not being respectful of it, the more they distance
themselves from the majority of the Dragonlance readership. >>
And the more Dragonlance authors distance themselves from the game material,
the more they distance themselves from Dragonlance gamers. ("The Silver Stair"
anyone? Oh, but that doesn't matter, does it?)
<< (And you
comment that it doesn't matter in the Big Picture proves that even *you* of
all people share the mentality that is obviously dominant among DL authors;
that continuity doesn't matter.) >>
Having Ariakas as a priest is MORE in keeping with the Big Picture than having
him as a mage. Or is Takhisis a retard who places someone more loyal to another
god and another institution that to her? (Ariakas would have to be a member of
the Orders of High Sorcery... because there were multiple black robes working
for the Dragon Empire/armies.)
*That's* the Big Picture I'm talking about. The world of Krynn as a whole.
"Chronicles" does not equal Krynn, nor does it equal "Dragonlance," despite
what certain parties would like to believe.
<< But that is really not what I was talking about. I would like you to
comment on your Capital Lettters. >>
I'm in favour. I like lowercase letters, too.
<< "A New Kind of Dragons have come to
Krynn, and the World needs Heroes more than Ever." Note the very liberal
use of big letters. >>
I have nothing to do with ad copy.
<< It seems that a habit has been developed among some of the DL authors,
mainly you, Stan! and Miranda Horner. That is, the game oriented authors.
You consequently write Good and Evil instead of good and evil. It might
seem like something that doesn't matter in your Big Picture, but to me it
does. >>
I also have nothing to do with style issues. The Good/Evil thing is something
you need to bring up with Sue Cook and Harold Johnson. (And you're right. In
the Big Picture, style issues don't amount to a hill of beans.)
<< The great story about Linsha in Odyssey was seriously scarred by
using capital letters in these words. I shuddered as I read "For the Good
of Silvanesti" in Sylvan Veil. It makes me cringe every time I read it, and
I wonder just what age group this fiction is aimed at. 10-year-olds? >>
How exactly does that follow? (Although, I have to admit I've had similar
thoughts when I keep seeing you and other posters use the word "cheese" in
every other sentence. At this stage, only ten year olds would be amused by the
way "cheese" has become a synonym for "things I don't like.")
<< So, WHY ON KRYNN was this trend introduced? There's no trace of it in
earlier material. In fact, the *only* fiction to date (including the novels
that came out after the game material started the abominable habit) to use
it is Odyssey of Gilthanas. >>
You're asking the wrong guy. I wasn't part of that decision. In fact, an editor
complained at me for not following style on 'Odyssey.'
<< Please, please stop it. Not only is it silly and cheesy, it serves no
purpose, and it also yet another detail distancing the material being
written from the original DL works. >>
You know what's cheesy? Ariakas as a wizard... because having him as a priest
would be too much like Verminaard. (Hey, I can throw thoughtless lables on
things I don't like, too! Excellent!)
Steve Miller
<< I've always thought that the gods deliberately obscured sorcery and
mysticism.... >>
Yep. That EXACTLY what was going on.
<< Good point. It makes you wonder -- how many of the cults that sprang up
after the Cataclysm may have worshipped false gods, but exercised true
mysticism? Judith practiced magic, but there may have been some
Seekers who had the gift but maybe never understood it enough to develop
a true religion. >>
Or... Junior Seeker #1 sez to Senior Seeker #1, "Look! I can heal Billy Bob's
broke leg! The Great Wahzoo has given me the power because I meditated for
three days on his teachings!"
Senior Seeker #1 sez, "Hey! If the Great Wahzoo was going ot grant healing
powers, he'd give them to me, because I'm twice as devout as you! Heretic!
Trafficer with demons!"
[Senior Seeker #1 rounds up Senior Seekers #2-#5, and the towns folk. They burn
Junior Seeker #1 at the stake.]
Senior Seeker #1 sez, "Alright! Now that's over with so I can get back to being
master of all earthly properties that I survey. Bring in the dancing girls!"
Meanwhile, Junior Seekers #2-#34 decide that perhaps it's better not to spend
too much time meditating on the teachings of the Great Wahzoo.
<< And if you think about it, while the stated objective of the Conclave in
hunting down renegades is to prevent the misuse of magic, it also helped
hide the existence of sorcery the same way the witch hunts may have
obscured mysticism. >>
Indeed. Was the crushing of non-robed spellcasters the idea of the Orders of
High Sorcery... or was it an idea that was handed down by their ultimate
leaders, the gods?
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
Steve Miller wrote:
>
> << Good point. It makes you wonder -- how many of the cults that sprang up
> after the Cataclysm may have worshipped false gods, but exercised true
> mysticism? Judith practiced magic, but there may have been some
> Seekers who had the gift but maybe never understood it enough to develop
> a true religion. >>
>
> Or... Junior Seeker #1 sez to Senior Seeker #1, "Look! I can heal Billy Bob's
> broke leg! The Great Wahzoo has given me the power because I meditated for
> three days on his teachings!"
>
> Senior Seeker #1 sez, "Hey! If the Great Wahzoo was going ot grant healing
> powers, he'd give them to me, because I'm twice as devout as you! Heretic!
> Trafficer with demons!"
>
> [Senior Seeker #1 rounds up Senior Seekers #2-#5, and the towns folk. They burn
> Junior Seeker #1 at the stake.]
>
> Senior Seeker #1 sez, "Alright! Now that's over with so I can get back to being
> master of all earthly properties that I survey. Bring in the dancing girls!"
>
> Meanwhile, Junior Seekers #2-#34 decide that perhaps it's better not to spend
> too much time meditating on the teachings of the Great Wahzoo.
>
Gawd! Am I influencing you today!?
:o)
***********************
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
*-Stryfe-*
companions instead of becoming a Dragon Highlord".
--
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Stryfe~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-------------------------------------------------
-I will do this. -
-Nothing in my life Matters except this. -
-No moment in my life exists except this moment.-
-I am born in this moment, -
-and if i fail i will die in this moment. -
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
Steve Miller wrote:
> Having Ariakas as a priest is MORE in keeping with the Big Picture than having
> him as a mage. Or is Takhisis a retard who places someone more loyal to another
> god and another institution that to her? (Ariakas would have to be a member of
> the Orders of High Sorcery... because there were multiple black robes working
> for the Dragon Empire/armies.)
>
Just a question or two here.
Are (were) the gray wizards followers of the gods of magic or Takhisis (or both?) I
don't remember... And what about renegade wizards? If they aren't then Ariakas
(which i assume would be a renegade) would be justified in being a wizard who is
Takhisis' follower...?
The fact that black robed wizards were there wouldn't mean that Ariakas would also
be one...or would it (being dressed in armor and using weapons other than daggers
marks him as a renegade?)?
After all magic-users aren't using clerical magic but high sorcery (they don't have
to have faith in the gods of magic and pray to them in order to cast spells).
I always wanted to ask this question about the 'Ariakas mage or priest debate'.
>
> *That's* the Big Picture I'm talking about. The world of Krynn as a whole.
> "Chronicles" does not equal Krynn, nor does it equal "Dragonlance," despite
> what certain parties would like to believe.
>
I hope that T$R's listening to you right now. They, by publishing everything (or
should i say anything) centered around 'Chronicles' and the HotL *made*
'Chronicles' equal to Krynn.
TSR made Chronicles canon; not the readers.
Although I admit that 5th age are a lot better now on that respect.
>
> You know what's cheesy? Ariakas as a wizard... because having him as a priest
> would be too much like Verminaard. (Hey, I can throw thoughtless lables on
> things I don't like, too! Excellent!)
Join the club! :o)
*************
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
Steve Miller
<< Gawd! Am I influencing you today!?
:o) >>
I don't think so... although I have always viewed the Seekers as the Three
Stooges of religious movements....
I hope I didn't come across as putting down the notion that some Seekers might
have discovered mysticism--it seems very posible to me. I just think such
individuals would have been killed by more powerful, less introspective,
jealous Seekers.
Athough I have to wonder if any Seekers could have possibly discovered
mysticism. After all, the gods were still affecting what was going on on Krynn
at the time, so they would probably still have been keeping it from mortals.
MLMartin98
>
>The fact that black robed wizards were there wouldn't mean that Ariakas would
>also
>be one...or would it (being dressed in armor and using weapons other than
>daggers
>marks him as a renegade?)?
Unfortunately, _DoSD_ specifically says that he's taken the Test and was a
member of the Black Robes. And if _Chronicles_ are the Absolute
All-Encompassing Infallible Canon To Be Used In the Establishment of the One
True Vision of Krynn To Which All Will Conform Or Die;-), well, then . . . ;-)
>
>I hope that T$R's listening to you right now. They, by publishing everything
>(or
>should i say anything) centered around 'Chronicles' and the HotL *made*
>'Chronicles' equal to Krynn
First, use of the term 'T$R' tends to be a _serious_ mark against one in any
discussion of their products or worlds.
Second, it should be noted that
a) the game line _never_ 'centered around Chronicles and the HotL' after the
first 14. A handful of products incorporated them, but the thrust of the line
was never
b) the novels didn't start to do so until 1989, three years after the
release of _Legends_, and with the exception of that year, there was never a
year in which the novels centered around the Innfellows that were released
exceeded the number of novels that included or focused around other material.
Typically, it was three Preludes or Meetings novels and three
non-Preludes/Meetings novels.
Third, how many of us _bought_ all of this stuff eagerly? :-)
Matthew L. Martin, did bail after Book 1 of The Meeting Sextet . . .
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
MLMartin98 wrote:
> >
> >The fact that black robed wizards were there wouldn't mean that Ariakas would
> >also
> >be one...or would it (being dressed in armor and using weapons other than
> >daggers
> >marks him as a renegade?)?
>
> Unfortunately, _DoSD_ specifically says that he's taken the Test and was a
> member of the Black Robes. And if _Chronicles_ are the Absolute
> All-Encompassing Infallible Canon To Be Used In the Establishment of the One
> True Vision of Krynn To Which All Will Conform Or Die;-), well, then . . . ;-)
>
Raistlin also took the test and was considered a renegade in 'Legends' IIRC.
He could've taken the test *then* do something to be branded a renegaede...? :o)
> >
> >I hope that T$R's listening to you right now. They, by publishing everything
> >(or
> >should i say anything) centered around 'Chronicles' and the HotL *made*
> >'Chronicles' equal to Krynn
>
> First, use of the term 'T$R' tends to be a _serious_ mark against one in any
> discussion of their products or worlds.
> Second, it should be noted that
> a) the game line _never_ 'centered around Chronicles and the HotL' after the
> first 14. A handful of products incorporated them, but the thrust of the line
> was never
I'm talking Novel-wise not AD&D DL materials.
>
> b) the novels didn't start to do so until 1989, three years after the
> release of _Legends_, and with the exception of that year, there was never a
> year in which the novels centered around the Innfellows that were released
> exceeded the number of novels that included or focused around other material.
>
Maybe not the Innfellows, but their sons, nephew, daughter, cousins, etc.
> Typically, it was three Preludes or Meetings novels and three
> non-Preludes/Meetings novels.
> Third, how many of us _bought_ all of this stuff eagerly? :-)
>
Eagerly? Me. But after reading some of them...?
Good thing I'm a book collector! :0)
****************
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
MLMartin98 wrote:
> >
> >
> >He could've taken the test *then* do something to be branded a renegaede...?
> >:o)
>
> Let me get my book . . . Ah, yes, here it is, p. 139, 9th printing: Ariakas'
> "skills as a magic-user won him the Black Robes . . . [but he] never wore the
> Black Robes which marked his standing as a wizard of evil powers."
>
Point conceded. :o)
But then again... Do you think you HAVE to be a worshipper of Nuitari to be a black
robed wizards?
I always thought that being a wizard, you cast spells and not say 'In the name of
the moon I will punish you!' in the language of magic to cast a fire ball. Mages
aren't clerics of the gods of magic AFAIK...
What do you think?
****************
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
MLMartin98 wrote:
>
> >I always thought that being a wizard, you cast spells and not say 'In the
> >name of
> >the moon I will punish you!' in the language of magic to cast a fire ball.
> Heh. :-) No, the only Sailor Moon resemblance I've noticed in a TSR product
> came in _Spectre of the Black Rose_. :-) That said, Zoycite would make an
> interesting model for a Highlord or Knight of Takhisis . . .
>
teehee... :-)
> >Mages
> >aren't clerics of the gods of magic AFAIK...
> >What do you think?
> >
> There does appear to be a necessary degree of loyalty involved--even Raistlin
> was going to let Nuitari stay around when he became a 'god' in _Test of the
> Twins_, although that might just have been the physical moon--and all Wizards
> of High Sorcery have a degree of loyalty to the Conclave, which the latter is
> sure to enforce even if the individual wizard doesn't take it seriously.
>
> Matthew L. Martin
Yeah but i highly doubt that the Conclave would allow a wizard of their
'association' be the head of Takhisis's army (a dozen references of Par Salian
being worried, making Raistlin into a 'sword', etc. comes to mind)...which would be
another point for Ariakas being a cleric... or Ariakas was really a renegade... I'm
confused... :o)
****************
Jellybean Pouchsnipper
MLMartin98
>
>He could've taken the test *then* do something to be branded a renegaede...?
>:o)
Let me get my book . . . Ah, yes, here it is, p. 139, 9th printing: Ariakas'
"skills as a magic-user won him the Black Robes . . . [but he] never wore the
Black Robes which marked his standing as a wizard of evil powers."
That strongly implies that Ariakas was a full-fledged member of the Black
Robes. OTOH, the concept of 'renegades' and the like wasn't really fleshed out
at this time.
Matthew L. Martin, thinks the relevant portion of DoSD is an addition to
Tanis' memoirs either by the half-elf or by some copyists . . .
MLMartin98
>But then again... Do you think you HAVE to be a worshipper of Nuitari to be a
>black
>robed wizards?
no--Raistlin's referred to as serving the Queen of Darkness (TotT, p. 13), but
there are also references to the mages drawing on the spirit of the patron moon
(cf. DoSD, p. 66, although that refers to Lunitari), and in the Age of Dreams,
the Black Robes as a whole were said to stand against the Queen (DoWN, p. 94)
thus implying that wherever their loyalties lie, it's _not_ to the Dark Queen.
By the time of _The Legend of Huma_, the alignment of Black Robes with Nuitari
is solidifed, and it's a point that's reinforced in "The Silken Threads"
novella in _The Reign of Istar_ (Tales II Vol. 1) and _Dragons of Summer
Flame_.
>I always thought that being a wizard, you cast spells and not say 'In the
>name of
>the moon I will punish you!' in the language of magic to cast a fire ball.
Heh. :-) No, the only Sailor Moon resemblance I've noticed in a TSR product
came in _Spectre of the Black Rose_. :-) That said, Zoycite would make an
interesting model for a Highlord or Knight of Takhisis . . .
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Don't tell me you played the modules "as is.">
<never got to. You need a regular non-club group>
That's too bad. Purposefully disregarding canon by playing alternate
DL is a heck of a lot of fun.
>
<Why didn't the cleric Crysania met discover mysticism?>
>yep. The best explanation is that the 5A designers didn't think about
>what they were doing - ignore the original work and copy from BR.
I'm more inclined to blame those 30 year leaps in the timeline. It would
have been easier to ease into the 5A in stages.
<Hotels from Hell>
>the problems were catering related, and we got a fire alarm in Boston.
Beantown took a pre-emptive strike against the Dino of Flame. When I
was in Egypt with my mom, my suitcase was temporarily misplaced, so
I dressed like the locals for a few days. Mom got an offer of 500 camels
for me.
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <Is there a lord of the multiverse?>
>> More like Chaos wants to legalize recreational drugs and the High God
>> wants to bring back prohibition.
>
>Vote 1 Chaos
Or the Krynnish pantheon returns and installs a dictatorship of the
proletariat.
<Sean's a rat so extermination is legal>
>he's an American citizen legally classified as a human. And having the
>ASPCA all over Senator Shithead would not be good.
The human form is missing and declared dead. The rat gives his life for
for the betterment of eyeshadow in the Revlon labs.
>
>> <With the Great Library gone, books may have been passed of as
>> "written by Astinus">
>or seeking legal advice over Soulforge - from the La Trobe 'crats
He'll settle for a cut of the profits plus script approval.
>
<The Republican party lynched Newt>
>starting to see why the Veep doesn't preside over impeachment trials...
It'd be a little like Dalamar presiding over LaDonna's embezzlement case
in Wayreth.
>
<Raistlin has discipline. Sean's more like Caramon on a bender because
Caramon was the better strategist>
>sounds like Sean's kind of flaw, although he wouldn't be arrogant enough
>to go after Fisty and Takhy in the first place, and certainly wouldn't
>take that kind of risk.
Then he takes after Kit, who did not want to take on both Raist and Tak.
>
>> <you can't search EVERYWHERE>
>> Little things make you so happy.
>
><thunk>
Aww. Overcome with happiness.
>
>> >> Melbourne's a regular Jurassic Park.
>> >
>> >lock AND load
>>
>> Dinosaurs are on the endangered species list.
>
>only for kids. Somehow they didn't make it into Aussie law.
Aim for Barney first then.
>
>> >> ><sue yo ass>
>> I did. But I can demand a change in venue because of local bias --
>> Simon's probably annoyed that these emails cut into his PC time.
>
>the trial will take place on my private island
That's not an island, that's a welcome mat on your front porch.
>
>> >> >> >> >> There were a series of abortificent plants in Cyprus that were
>> >> >extinct by the 1st century because they were so effective.
>it's still taking poison. Any indication on how consumer friendly they
>were? Sounds like a great way of killing oneself.
Apparently the population remained stable, so the plants weren't hazardous
and succeeded as morning after drugs.
>
>> <The Emperor of Ansalon imposter would kill his lovers to prevent news
>> of him reaching the real Ariakas>
>he's got a rota, but people in Lemish are unlikely to talk to those from
>around Flotsam.
Dragonarmy soldiers are very likely to speculate to each other.
>
<Rohan's son will write Dez&Bertrem: A Love for the Ages>
>
>I'm going to have to kill him
He'll probably use the name Rohan as a pen name too. Won't you be
the proud papa.
>
>> >> >> >> <Altie prefers Python to Atkinson>
>> <Explanation of "O Jesus" BBC satire>
>>
>> Okay, make that the fourth item most likely to give me nightmares.
>
>prozac and tylenol just became illegal
That won't make it on the list. I'm boringly normal and can take aspirin.
>
>> >> >> >> <Rohan has more friends than he lets on>
>I never had the out of class time to hang around campus
You'll make up for what you missed when you're out and on your own.
>
>> >> ><nuke-happy Nero?>
>yeah, I'd better not sell nukes to Nero after all. But what do I do
>with the time machine?
You could always go visit your author son in the future.
>
>> <Bathing for roses>
>I'll deliver the pink rose and falsify the marriage documents later.
>Besides, the pink rose requires you to be wearing something pale anyway.
I normally don't bathe with my clothes on -- there are washing machines for
that.
>
>> <The Swiss Guards at the Vatican are ceremonial kender>
>they aren't, their armed backup (a few metres from anywhere they care
>about) is. They can do normal policing stuff, it only matters where
>somebody's actually going to try and kneecap 'em.
The ceremonial kender who gets his knee blown off will be comforted by
the knowledge that someone will avenge him after the fact.
>halberds are quite nasty, and they can probably have a pistol handy.
>Didn't Da Vinci design those uniforms?
I think so because they have that Renaissance like look. But the pistol is
hidden where? In the hat?
>
>> <Explanation of how Aussies were not allowed to catch a fictional
biological mass murderer.>
>he wasn't charged due to American political considerations. Aussies
>would've been able to throw away the key. Instead there was a cheesy
>ending where the 'evil greenies' were forced to survive in the jungle
>naked - murder is better than the rule of law.
Letting nature punish rogue greenpeacers is a good way to go. And
unlike the KoS, American considerations have far reaching ramifications.
>
>> >> >> >> <Rub a dub dub, Dalamar enjoys the tub>
>> Shame. Whenever my neck or back hurts, lying in warm water with some
>> mineral salts thrown in works wonders on the muscles. Best way to
>> relieve tension.
>
>the Glock 17 is even better. So compact, so easy to use
The original point being that after the bath mobility is restored.
>
>> <Naked pictures of Roseanne would even scare away Dalamar>
>> >then I'd have you all to myself
>>
>> How romantic. Dalamar will return eventually though.
>
>got a busload of female inmates waiting for him downstairs
Dalamar may not be their kind of entertainment, especially if they've
been in awhile.
>
>> >> >> >> <You're not giving me nightmares Koalataur, yet>
>> Going into a tizzy over little old me? What an adorable Koalataur you are.
>
>I'm sure I can physically shrink you and age you a decade or so
You've got a thing for geriatric dwarven women?
>
>> >> >> ><right to silence or not?>
>> But how does the penalty for not answering compare to being convicted?
>
>presumably it's gotta be pretty high
So a Fugitive type guy would be damned if he confesses falsely and damned
if he protests his innocence. Lots of choices there.
>
<She'll be apples>
>> >know where that expression comes from? Convicts coring apples in
>> >Tasmania (aka Tasphobia)...
>> You're not going to be putting anything into me anytime soon dear.
>
>bugger
Glad you see things my way.
>
>> <My colleagues from Sydney didn't rate Melbourne as a tourist spot>
>don't forget a gun. And check your valuables afterwards
Might as well vacation in the Bronx.
>
>> <Rohan's dad is an executive at an insurance brokerage>
>>
>> Your dad and I are following somewhat similar career paths -- of course
>> I've still got a ways to go before I reach his level.
>
>der. He's a director thinking of retirement.
At 50? Not bad.
>
<Childhood career aspirations>
>what the hell is MIS? In my case, I run on uncertain inertia
Management Information Systems. Basically corporate reporting and
analysis.
>
>> >> >> <How'd the Prez in ID4 get elected anyway?>
>> >don't they usually need a reason?
>>
>> Hollywood? Nah. It was always rumored that Babs supported Clinton
>> because she had a thing for him.
>
>that's just disgusting
Politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, since Streisand is not
popular it could just be a smear.
>
>> Let's say the elves hint to Gunthar that they want him to change the
>> Measure and Gunthar says I will when I'm good and ready. What
>> are the elves going to do to force him, and how does a chill in elven
>> relations impact the KoS?
>
>a good politician saves his bravado for the public arena. Gunthar would
>not be that stupid.
Okay. Gunthar very nicely says "I'll think about it" and does nothing.
What do the elves do? Invade? Sit-in? Start a letter writing campaign?
>
>> >> >> <"I'm just too good to be true." >
>> I'd say it is. The "I think" comes from a general concern about pointy
>> foreign objects anywhere near my body.
>
>okay, I'll make the scalpels out of your fingerbones. Satisfied?
Depends on how far you can go without being "creative."
>
>> <Auctioning a Koalataur>
>> Don't you have to have the descendants first before you save them?
>
>IVF rocks
How are the fetuses going to be carried to term if everyone else is gone?
>
>> <Kit on the cover of Cigar Afficionado>
>okay, she's a female Clinton
Kit was better at picking her lovers.
>
>> > But she certainly does tequila shots.
>>
>> Isn't tequila on Krynn a continuity violation? Or is she getting it from
>> spelljamming merchants?
>
>Krynnish equivalent. They don't have tobacco leaves either iirc.
If kenders are cousins to hobbits, then it's a safe bet that they had
tobacco. Hobbits lit up like chimneys.
>
>> Darn. I'm not all that fond of Tom Cruise to have him come to my rescue.
>
>personally I'd prefer a *real* lawyer...
Tom may not be a real lawyer, but he sure can fill out a pair of briefs.
<Chaos feasts on dwarves and lollipops>
<Continuity violation! Cans and lollipops are not Krynnish>
>
>Thorbardin's one big can
Which no one can figure out how to open. So Chaos will starve if he has
a craving for mountain dwarf.
>> >> <Sturm risked placing the heroes in danger when he wouldn't shave>
<There are plenty of masculine looking women out there.>
>true. But you couldn't really mistake those two for women
Female half ogres then.
>
<Linsha's a Frankenstein Majeres?
>what, artificial handwringing and a Majere Complex?
Linsha's given to gloomy introspection like her uncle Raist.
>
<Most Jesuit priests are normal guys>
>I understand their leader is still secret. And we *know* the Vatican
>still has its own assassins.
The assassins are probably secular guys. The Jesuit general protects
matters of the faith.
>
<the dwarves won't deal with the KoS if they can't guarantee elven non-
interference>
>2nd Gen was quite explicit that all three groups were needed to work.
But where did it say that the dwarves even cared what the political
situation was between the KoS and the elves? Or that they cared about
the Measure?
>
>> <what's wrong with jeans around the office?>
>how many women are your size?
Few and it has it's pluses and minuses. I usually can get great
petite stuff on sale, but I have to alter any suit I buy at the women's
regular size rack.
>> <James Bond is doing things no geriatric spy should be able to do>
>>
>> So Gunthar being able to kill a boar at 100 is not an isolated incident.
<It's bad enough that James Bond does munchkin stuff -- it doesn't belong
in DL>
Bond is Fleming's version of Dhamon Grimwulf. Or what Caramon would
have become if he hadn't married Tika.
>
>> >> >> >> <Superman is just as normal as Sword>
>Sword doesn't really believe in Clear and *Present* Danger. If the bad
>guy has to die, then it doesn't matter if he's unarmed.
"Has to die" is incredibly subjective. An unarmed guy can be arrested
and punished by the law.
>
<Rohan as a heavenly entree>
>> Serve you to who? Why would St. Peter want to dine on Rohan
>> Tolstrup intestines?
>
>they closed Valhalla?
It's undergoing renovations.
>
>> ><rpgs replaced by machines>
>> >> >pass the wakizashi, or do you want to go first?
>> I'll be sure to send what's left of you back home.
>
>I'll make sure to do it in your flat after ripping open a few kilos of
>cocaine around the place
I'll just blame Dalamar.
>
>> >> <Morten asked for FAQ feedback the other day>
<Few people even ask for it>
>
>people cease to care about DL
Some folks may be novice internet users, but others are just too
lazy to look the faq up.
>
>> >> >> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
>> I'd already mentioned that the boxing match didn't faze me. And wasting
>> that guy was a good thing. You can't shock me anymore.
>
>perhaps morally ambiguous to pull a head shot on the girl blowing him
Morally ambiguous doesn't faze me either. Accept your open book
status Koalataur.
>
>> >> Thought you were against the big corporation winning?
>> >
>> >as a big man I dislike the imagery. It's not realistic anyway.
>>
>> As a petite woman the imagery rocks. The bigger they come, the
>> harder they fall.
>
>misses the point. Napoleon anybody?
Yes, I've missed this one. Size wasn't the issue with Napoleon winning
or losing. It's not as if he challenged Wellington to a fist fight.
>
>> >> >> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
>you've got the contacts? He'd certainly trace it back to you.
No he wouldn't. I'm too innocent looking to be a suspect.
>
>> <Sean and Sword go after Guen>
>grenade launchers are cool. High Explosive Dual Purpose.
It's Salvatore's characters. Magic rules.
>
>> >> >I've also got photos of Santa getting it on with the Easter Bunny.
>> >ever heard of blackmail?
>>
>> Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's. No one's ever
>> found his base at the North Pole.
>
>it's in Greenland iirc. Or ever occur to them to look underwater?
Greenland's where Jack Frost lives. And the reindeer wouldn't like being
waterlogged.
>
>> >my hand's very expressive and I do a lot of important stuff with it.
>>
>> Scratching yourself in public is not polite.
>
>er, other than that
Picking your nose should be done in private.
>
<US has great pizza>
>> I never liked left over pizza. The cheese just seems to go bitterish.
>
>American cheese
I'll try one with imported Australian cheese to see if I can spot the
difference.
>
<Bast's pre-emptive strike against Sean>
>> >
>> >that's not very nice. And remember Danger Sense. He's got a white suit
>> >and an eyepatch.
>>
>> But it didn't help him in 98, did it?
>
>he's only just acquired it
So he's not proficient in it. How enlightening. How convenient.
<Will someone please get rid of David Hinckley>
>> Jail would end a promising directorial career.
>
>give Reagan a gun then
Reagan can't even shoot the breeze these days.
>
>> <Rohan's missed the signal>
>> >I hate Star Wars!
>>
>> You should stay with it until Episode 5 and find out how Anakin manages
>> to pick up the signal.
>
>diediediediediediediediediediediediediediedie
How cozy. It's not "Sonnets from the Portuguese," but such passion makes
me blush nonetheless.
>
<My cat Vee's a hopeless catnip addict>
>play with her mind then
Doesn't work. She plays back.
>
>> >thinking of getting a commission
<Corrective eye surgery is an option>
>
>driving is cool. Maybe I should see my optometrist, I'm about due
Being driven is cool too. Getting rid of your glasses would be a big
boost up if you do decide to go into the military.
>
<basically Rohan's trapped in a job any way you look at it>
Full-time employment is not so bad after the first year, when you
get used to not having summers off.
>> Sounds like your mind is already made up, so you should just go for it.
>> I still have twinges of regret that I didn't pursue a writing career.
>
>something I found out last week. Dunno if I'd actually follow through.
If you're due to graduate in 2001, then you'll be bombarded by all sorts
of job opportunities as graduation approaches.
>
<Morten as a stepdad means in-house tutoring>
>my academic skills are reasonable
He might even let you DM your own game.
<Abe Lincoln: Unionist Dictator>
>
>Abe was a fruitcake who treated legitimate secession as a crime. Why
>shouldn't the South be able to secede?
Making certain that the South was not turned into a hostile foreign colony
is a legitimate reason for making secession illegal.
>
>> >> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
>in any event, some US ally was dealing with Libya
The French complained in principle, but they didn't seem too broken up
about it.
>
<Computer as a parental gift for Simon?>
>he's got his own laptop, which he never uses.
Is it because yours is the only one connected to the phone line?
<Simon's found the blackmail videotape>
Simon will eventually share his findings with AFDL.
>
>> >Rohan "I am God" Tolstrup
>>
>> Atheism suddenly has some compelling arguments going for it.
>
>we need a God For A Day competition
The Third Cataclysm is upon us.
Altarielle
writes:
Altarielle wrote:
>>"What if Tak won" was my overall favorite DL alternate campaign.
>>Second best was Crysania turning the tables on Raistlin and
>>becoming an evil goddess -- think along the lines of Mystra/Midnight.
>>Honorable mention goes to a Sturm/Laurana romance where they live
>>happily ever after.
>My Favorite what if has always been "What if Kitiara had stayed with the
>companions instead of becoming a Dragon Highlord".
I would have liked to have played Kit in a campaign where she switches
sides. Someone in the newsgroup once mentioned that their favorite
alternate DL campaign had Tanis willingly joining the Dragon Army.
And we all know Granak was a "renegade" sivak before Slith became
fashionable.
Altarielle
(Steve Miller) writes:
>I hope I didn't come across as putting down the notion that some Seekers
>might have discovered mysticism
You didn't.:-) Replace Senior Seeker with Hederick and you've got a
plot that would be right at home in DoAT.
>>--it seems very posible to me. I just think such individuals would have
>> been killed by more powerful, less introspective, jealous Seekers.
I was thinking of a line in Time of the Twins, where the Kingpriest's goon
Quareth remarks that Soth's girlfriend, a novice, had the gift and
Quareth obviously didn't. He seemed to regard the stories of healings
as pure mythology. If Soth's lover had been a rival to Quareth,
she probably would have been burned per your scenario.
>
>Athough I have to wonder if any Seekers could have possibly discovered
>mysticism. After all, the gods were still affecting what was going on on
>Krynn at the time, so they would probably still have been keeping it from
>mortals.
The gods seem to rely on their mortal worshippers quite a bit when it comes
to punishing heretics and renegades. Perhaps the Seekers were an unwitting
part of the grand design to keep mysticism hidden in the same way the
wizards handle renegades, given Hederick's reaction to being healed in DoAT.
Frank and Elly
Steve Miller <nue...@aol.comDELETE> wrote
> Indeed. Was the crushing of non-robed spellcasters the idea of the Orders
of
> High Sorcery... or was it an idea that was handed down by their ultimate
> leaders, the gods?
From the evidence that I have read, probably the latter. The reasoning?
Definitely subject to speculation (speculation that pretty much has to
hinge on what assumptions one chooses to make about the nature and ultimate
source, or sources, of magic on Krynn)........
--
Frank
*********************************************************
Calvin: Hobbes, I've been thinking.....
Hobbes: On a weekend?
Calvin: Well it wasn't on purpose.......
*********************************************************
Morten Brattbakk
Steve Miller <nue...@aol.comDELETE> skrev
> << Everything matters. The powers of the *leader* of the Dragonarmies
during
> the WotL doesn't matter? >>
>
> His CLASS doesn't matter... unless, of course, you are willing to take
the
> position that the DL novels are so crappy that one can hear the dice
rolling in
> the background.
Raistlin's class does mattter, so does Elistan's, (and I hear no dice
rolling in the background when reading about them). I don't see why the
same couldn't apply to Ariakas.
> And if EVERYTHING matters, then why are you go into coniptions over a
> throw-away reference in DL12 being changed in 'Odyssey,' but don't do a
similar
> thing over Marquesta Kar-Thon raiding ships sailing out of Tarsis?
Because the Maq in Tarsis issue is a mistake so obvious that nobody even
tries to defend it. If anyone had, I'd go into coniptions about that, too.
> (Or should
> "DL Classics" have been changed to to give Tarsis a "sailing season"?
You can look forward to a review soon. :)
> << The more other authors distances themselves from the Chronicles
> by contradicting it and not being respectful of it, the more they
distance
> themselves from the majority of the Dragonlance readership. >>
>
> And the more Dragonlance authors distance themselves from the game
material,
> the more they distance themselves from Dragonlance gamers. ("The Silver
Stair"
> anyone? Oh, but that doesn't matter, does it?)
I agree about you 100% about The Silver Stair. I have been complaining
about its total disregard for CoL many times, and you know it. I have even
cleared this up with you before, so I don't see why you're being
groundlessly sarcastic on this one.
There is a spiral where books and game material does not mesh very well,
and this creates a gap between gamers and pure novel readers. When a game
product ignores much of Chronicles to go with other material instead, it
not only distances itself from those books and the majority of readers, it
also distances the game fans from the novel fans (who, I argue, are in a
majority). It shouldn't be like that, and the author and editor of The
Silver Stair deserve a slap on their fingers. At least, with Ariakas, you
*considered* the continuity, even if continuity wasn't top priority when
DLC15A was written, from what I've seen of it so far. (I'll get back to
that when I've finished reading it. Believe it or not, the continuity
issues in DLC15A don't really bother me that much.)
To quote Jack Nicholson in Mars Attacks!, "Why can't we all just get
along." :)
> << (And you
> comment that it doesn't matter in the Big Picture proves that even *you*
of
> all people share the mentality that is obviously dominant among DL
authors;
> that continuity doesn't matter.) >>
>
> Having Ariakas as a priest is MORE in keeping with the Big Picture than
having
> him as a mage. Or is Takhisis a retard who places someone more loyal to
another
> god and another institution that to her?
D'oh. Of course she is. :)
> *That's* the Big Picture I'm talking about. The world of Krynn as a
whole.
> "Chronicles" does not equal Krynn, nor does it equal "Dragonlance,"
despite
> what certain parties would like to believe.
I am perfectly aware of that, and have said so myself. But that doesn't
mean that it is very, very central.
> << It seems that a habit has been developed among some of the DL authors,
> mainly you, Stan! and Miranda Horner. That is, the game oriented authors.
> You consequently write Good and Evil instead of good and evil. It might
> seem like something that doesn't matter in your Big Picture, but to me it
> does. >>
>
> I also have nothing to do with style issues. The Good/Evil thing is
something
> you need to bring up with Sue Cook and Harold Johnson.
Perhaps I should post a rant to the mailing list, then.
> (And you're right. In
> the Big Picture, style issues don't amount to a hill of beans.)
For my enjoyment of a book, it does. I just read the dryad story by Miranda
Horner in Heroes & Fools. I loved it, but there was one instance where it
used the word Evil. I don't know why it bothered me, but the rest of the
story was perfect. If that story was an incredibly beautiful woman, the
"Evil" was a wart on her cheek. No matter how perfect the woman's body is,
you just can't help not focusing on that little, apparently insignificant
wart.
Besides, the big picture consists of thousands of little details. Change
the details, and the picture changes.
> << The great story about Linsha in Odyssey was seriously scarred by
> using capital letters in these words. I shuddered as I read "For the Good
> of Silvanesti" in Sylvan Veil. It makes me cringe every time I read it,
and
> I wonder just what age group this fiction is aimed at. 10-year-olds? >>
>
> How exactly does that follow?
Just a feeling I get. Like someone trying to do something very cool and
perhaps meaningful by doing a stylistic change, and then failing miserably.
> (Although, I have to admit I've had similar
> thoughts when I keep seeing you and other posters use the word "cheese"
in
> every other sentence.
The reason for that is that my vocabulary is rather limited since I'm no
native speaker of English, the word covers things no other word does (to my
knowledge), and the fact that there are rather big amounts of "cheese" in
Dragonlance. :)
> At this stage, only ten year olds would be amused by the
> way "cheese" has become a synonym for "things I don't like.")
There is a subtle difference.
> << Please, please stop it. Not only is it silly and cheesy, it serves no
> purpose, and it also yet another detail distancing the material being
> written from the original DL works. >>
>
> You know what's cheesy? Ariakas as a wizard... because having him as a
priest
> would be too much like Verminaard.
How is that cheesy? Unrealistic you might argue, but you seem to have
missed the meaning of cheesy.
> (Hey, I can throw thoughtless lables on
> things I don't like, too! Excellent!)
Which is not how I use the word "cheesy". At least that's what I like to
think. :)
Morten
Morten Brattbakk
MLMartin98 <mlmar...@aol.com> skrev
> Let me get my book . . . Ah, yes, here it is, p. 139, 9th printing:
Ariakas'
> "skills as a magic-user won him the Black Robes . . . [but he] never
wore the
> Black Robes which marked his standing as a wizard of evil powers."
>
> That strongly implies that Ariakas was a full-fledged member of the
Black
> Robes. OTOH, the concept of 'renegades' and the like wasn't really
fleshed out
> at this time.
It is possible that Ariakas was never really branded a renegade, for very
much the same reason that Raistlin never was. The Conclave probably knew
that declaring Ariakas a renegade would be pointless or even harmful to
them, with the strong position he was enjoying in the Dark Queen's army.
So, despite him being loyal to Takhisis (or himself first, I guess), and
breaking the rules of the Conclave such as the weapons use, they never took
action against him. And so, formally, he was still of the Black Robes.
Maybe Nuitari withdrew his support, making Ariakas a renegade in the sense
that he didn't enjoy the benfits of the black moon's phases when using his
magic. Or then again, maybe Nuitari supported Takhisis's warfare, and such
allowed Ariakas to have the benefits. That's perfectly conceivable.
Since mages do not (necessarily) worship the gods of magic like clerics
worship their gods, I do not see the problem with Takhisis allowing Ariakas
to have a position as the general of the Dragonarmies even if he was a mage
of the Black Robes. Remember that Kitiara sought (and got, after the War of
the Lance) the position as general, and so it really wasn't necessary for
the leader to be a cleric of Takhisis as long he/she was loyal to her. I
see no reason that Ariakas couldn't be devoted to Takhy even if he was a
mage and enjoyed Nuitari's influence. If he had been a cleric of another
evil god such as Sargonnas, it would have been something else entirely.
Morten
forever darkness
>It is possible that Ariakas was never really branded a renegade, for very
>much the same reason that Raistlin never was. The Conclave probably knew
>that declaring Ariakas a renegade would be pointless or even harmful to
>them, with the strong position he was enjoying in the Dark Queen's army.
>So, despite him being loyal to Takhisis (or himself first, I guess), and
>breaking the rules of the Conclave such as the weapons use, they never took
>action against him. And so, formally, he was still of the Black Robes.
do you seriously see weapons use as a break in conclave rules?
personally, using dnd rules, i see ariakus as a duel class human.
he's a black robed mage, and a fighter. he's allowed the use of the
weapon through his fighter class and at the same time, can cast magic.
i don't believe there's a strict weapons restriction, because what
does the conclave do in the case of multiclass wizards? you're a
fighter/mage and can't use a long sword? i don't believe that.
as for his loyalties, mages don't necessarily have to *worship* the
god of magic they serve through magic. they serve the god in the
sense that they use his/her magic and promote magic thusly. if
ariakus had loyalties to the dark queen, i'm sure nuitari wasn't too
upset, considering if the dark queen won, evil would be supreme ruler,
and the status of black magic would increase in the world.
cassandra
______________________________________________________________________
"the children of the night... what beautiful music they make"
darkness... hidden from the eyes... absence of light...
______________________________________________________________________
http://www.cyberbeach.net/~spirit | "it can't rain all
| the time" - eric
"a pill to make you numb, a pill to make you dumb |
a pill to make you, anybody else..." - mm |
______________________________________________________________________
Dragonlancelot
I wouldn't be so sure of that. In LoH, the black robes turned traitor
to Takhisis' armies because they were worried that if she won, magic
would cease to exist.
Dragonlancelot.
--
"Somewhere the world of Krynn truly exists and we are all a part of it."
-Weis/Hickman-
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Steve Miller
<< Raistlin's class does mattter, so does Elistan's, (and I hear no dice
rolling in the background when reading about them). I don't see why the
same couldn't apply to Ariakas. >>
Actually, Elistan's class doesn't matter... until the converts to following the
true gods. There's no real reason why a "Seeker" can't be classed as a warrior
or rogue. (Elistan is slightly problamatic, I admit, as he becomes a high level
priest *immediately* but I don't think it's that big a deal.
Raistlin's class matters because he's an important character in the novel.
Ariakas barely rates as a bit player.
<< Because the Maq in Tarsis issue is a mistake so obvious that nobody even
tries to defend it. If anyone had, I'd go into coniptions about that, too. >>
I believe someone (not you... Rohan Tolstrup, maybe?) issued the ludicrious
statement that 'Chronicles HAD to be infallible. So... if it HAS to be
infallible, how can the Tarsis comment be a mistake?
Elevating 'Chronicles' so far above everything else that it is untouchable and
unquetionable is a mistake if one wants to enjoy DL as a living world rather
than some piece of static artistry (like Middle Earth, for example) is a
tremendous mistake, IMO.
'Chronicles' and the original series of modules are the points from which
everything flows, and one should probably consider giving the fiction weight in
most cases when it comes down to choosing between the two... but only when
there isn't something in the overall DL world that makes the take in the
modules preferable. And when it comes to Ariakas, it is MY opinion that it
makes more sense in the context of the overall world for him to be a priest
rather than a wizard. The wizard--assuming he isn't a Renegade--will have split
loyalties, if he is put in charge of a empire the way Ariakas was. And
considering that Tahkisis is attempting to establish herself as the supreme
power on Krynn, split loyaties at the head of her army is not something she
would want, I think.
<< You can look forward to a review soon. :) >>
Of DLC15? Excellent. Like I've said before, I consider all well-considered
feedback I can get extremely valuable. It's the only thing that helps me make
the next book better than the one before.
<< I agree about you 100% about The Silver Stair. I have been complaining
about its total disregard for CoL many times, and you know it. I have even
cleared this up with you before, so I don't see why you're being
groundlessly sarcastic on this one. >>
I'm not being sarcastic. The statement you made was that by my not being
"respectful" of 'Chronicles' was somehow an error. Until OTHER DL authors
decide they should pay attention to IMPORTANT details of existing game product
when they base fiction on it, I see no reason to slavishly adhere to
UNIMPORTANT details when doing game product... particularly not when there is
precedent in the game product already for Ariakas being designed a certain way.
I picked 'The Silver Stair' and CoL because I knew you were familiar with it...
and because it's one of the most aggrevious examples I can think of where a
novel throws EVERYTHING that's been said about a topic overboard. (BTW, I
rather like 'The Silver Stair' as a whole, as I've said before. It and 'Legacy
of Steel' are my favourite 'Bridges of Time' novels.)
<< There is a spiral where books and game material does not mesh very well,
and this creates a gap between gamers and pure novel readers. >>
You'll get no argument from me. On the other hand, I've never made no secret
about where the Heart of DL exists for me... so that's what I will tend to
gravitate to.
<< At least, with Ariakas, you
*considered* the continuity, even if continuity wasn't top priority when
DLC15A was written, from what I've seen of it so far. . >>
I always consider continuity very carefully, and I always have considered
reasons for going against it. (I'm sure Jean Rabe and her editor had carefully
considered reasons for the way mysticism was portrayed in 'The Silver Stair,'
too.) Now, sometimes continuity mistakes happen--I can think of at least four
offhand that I've made over the last few years of DL products--so I'm not
trying to say I'm perfect. (I'm only god-*like*.)
And you're right: Adhering to continuity in DLC15 was *not* a big priority when
I was writing it. That's why intro says that this is the first time TSR has
returned to the basic storyline of 'Chronicles.'
My take has always been, and probably always will be, that when it comes to
game product vs. novels, the story should be the most important. Unless certain
details get in the way of the story and plotline across the board, there's no
need to sweat them. (In other words, Ariakas' class doesn't mean ANYTHING as
far as the overall story goes... except for the fact that making him a wizard
introduces a number of policitical questions and power issues that no one has
addressed to my satisfactino and which I didn't have room to address in DL15C.
Staying with the design as him as priest eliminated those questions from even
arising in the "remake."
<< I'll get back to
that when I've finished reading it. Believe it or not, the continuity
issues in DLC15A don't really bother me that much. >>
I believe you. I get the feeling that you're a little like me... if you can see
a good reason for a continuity deviation, you don't mind it as much, if at all.
<< To quote Jack Nicholson in Mars Attacks!, "Why can't we all just get
along." :) >>
I'm all in favour of this. :)
<< I am perfectly aware of that, and have said so myself. But that doesn't
mean that it is very, very central. >>
Agreed. 'Chronicles' is very central.
<<
Just a feeling I get. Like someone trying to do something very cool and
perhaps meaningful by doing a stylistic change, and then failing miserably. >>
Yes... but why would the attempt to do something cool and perhaps meaningful
mean that it's aimed at ten-year-olds? That's where you lost me.
<< The reason for that is that my vocabulary is rather limited since I'm no
native speaker of English, the word covers things no other word does (to my
knowledge), and the fact that there are rather big amounts of "cheese" in
Dragonlance. :) >>
Well, English is pretty much my second language, too. But I still try to avoid
slapping too many labels on things without explaining why they're there. (Now,
you for the most part DO explain why you think something in cheesy, and you
often do so in a very well-reasoned way. There are those who have taken up the
Cheese Mantle who do not.)
<< How is that cheesy? Unrealistic you might argue, but you seem to have
missed the meaning of cheesy. >>
No, I was just using it as I have come to perceive the majority of posters
throwing the lable around use it.
I don't like Ariakas as a wizard. I don't think the stated reason for making
him a wizard (that he would otherwise be too much like Verminaard) was a
particularly good one. I understand why it was made, but I think a better
option would have been to handle him differently as a character. In what is
coming common usage (or so it seems to me), if I don't like something, it
therefore has to be cheesy.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong... but that's what it looks like from my vantage point.
A.J. Dembroski
same texts, whereas the pantheon (Good, Evil, Neutral) is...
Morten Brattbakk
forever darkness <spi...@cyberbeach.net> skrev
> do you seriously see weapons use as a break in conclave rules?
Yes, I do. We had a thread on the weapons restrictions of mages before, but
I still think that their restrictions are based on limitations by the
Conclave.
> i don't believe there's a strict weapons restriction, because what
> does the conclave do in the case of multiclass wizards? you're a
> fighter/mage and can't use a long sword? i don't believe that.
This is where the AD&D system didn't fit perfectly into Dragonlance. The
obvious example is Gilthanas, who was a multiclass fighter/wizard in the
modules, but a fighter who is mage on a "hobby basis" (ie. using low-level
magic you don't need to pass the Test to use), never developing his magic
skill to arch-mage level.
> as for his loyalties, mages don't necessarily have to *worship* the
> god of magic they serve through magic. they serve the god in the
> sense that they use his/her magic and promote magic thusly.
My point exactly.
Morten
Morten Brattbakk
Steve Miller <nue...@aol.comDELETE> skrev
> Actually, Elistan's class doesn't matter... until the converts to
following the
> true gods. There's no real reason why a "Seeker" can't be classed as a
warrior
> or rogue. (Elistan is slightly problamatic, I admit, as he becomes a high
level
> priest *immediately* but I don't think it's that big a deal.
Like you imply, you shouldn't automatically label a class on the DL
characters. But that doesn't mean that the concept is totally alien to the
world, since Elistan (after his conversion) was obviously a cleric and not
at all a mage, and Raistlin was just as obviously a mage and not a cleric.
And those labels can be applied to those characters without hearing the
dice rolling. I don't see why that would be a problem when it comes to
Ariakas.
> << Because the Maq in Tarsis issue is a mistake so obvious that nobody
even
> tries to defend it. If anyone had, I'd go into coniptions about that,
too. >>
>
> I believe someone (not you... Rohan Tolstrup, maybe?) issued the
ludicrious
> statement that 'Chronicles HAD to be infallible. So... if it HAS to be
> infallible, how can the Tarsis comment be a mistake?
I don't know who said that, but when Chr. contradicts itself it can't be
infallible.
> Elevating 'Chronicles' so far above everything else that it is
untouchable and
> unquetionable is a mistake if one wants to enjoy DL as a living world
rather
> than some piece of static artistry (like Middle Earth, for example) is a
> tremendous mistake, IMO.
I do not agree completely with that statement. I don't see why you have to
change and contradict Chr. for DL to be a living, breathing world.
> 'Chronicles' and the original series of modules are the points from which
> everything flows, and one should probably consider giving the fiction
weight in
> most cases when it comes down to choosing between the two... but only
when
> there isn't something in the overall DL world that makes the take in the
> modules preferable.
Seems that we agree on the basic philosophy, Steve. Where we disagree is
exactly at which points (Ariakas in particular) the modules are preferable.
> << I agree about you 100% about The Silver Stair. I have been complaining
> about its total disregard for CoL many times, and you know it. I have
even
> cleared this up with you before, so I don't see why you're being
> groundlessly sarcastic on this one. >>
>
> I'm not being sarcastic. The statement you made was that by my not being
> "respectful" of 'Chronicles' was somehow an error. Until OTHER DL authors
> decide they should pay attention to IMPORTANT details of existing game
product
> when they base fiction on it, I see no reason to slavishly adhere to
> UNIMPORTANT details when doing game product...
I don't think that you should think that way. If you stop caring about
continuity just because Jean Rabe doesn't care about continuity, then
things will never get better. Besides, what's the difference between
important details and unimportant details?
> I always consider continuity very carefully, and I always have considered
> reasons for going against it. (I'm sure Jean Rabe and her editor had
carefully
> considered reasons for the way mysticism was portrayed in 'The Silver
Stair,'
> too.) Now, sometimes continuity mistakes happen--I can think of at least
four
> offhand that I've made over the last few years of DL products--
Hmmm... Let me guess: Gully dwarves being human-dwarf crossbreeds (HoD),
Quivalin Soth (HoD), Ariakas (DLC15A), Raggard being a cleric of
Kiri-Jolith (DLC15A), Winston's Tower (OoG) the location of the Karthay
dwarven realm (OoG).. seems there are more than four. :)
But at any rate, at least you care and do your best. So they also did with
the Sylvan Veil. To bad the effort hasn't made it all the way into the
novel department yet, as the Silver Stair proves.
> so I'm not
> trying to say I'm perfect. (I'm only god-*like*.)
I'm sure I could do it perfectly then. :)
> My take has always been, and probably always will be, that when it comes
to
> game product vs. novels, the story should be the most important. Unless
certain
> details get in the way of the story and plotline across the board,
there's no
> need to sweat them. (In other words, Ariakas' class doesn't mean ANYTHING
as
> far as the overall story goes...
I think it does. All details in a story matter, IMO. And I don't see why
the "overall" story should be elevated to such a status that everything not
concerned directly with it becomes unimportant. In a show like Babylon 5,
even the episodes that didn't jolt the overall story "arc" forward were
considered important and were referred (and adhered) to. Even they,
unimportant as they may seem, were a part of the universe, and a part of
the great and complicated tapestry that makes up the story. That's how I
view Dragonlance also, every little book and detail is (or idealistically
should be, if it hadn't been for all the inconsistencies) a part of the
overall pattern, the pattern consisting of many small and large stories. No
thread is "unimportant".
> except for the fact that making him a wizard
> introduces a number of policitical questions and power issues that no one
has
> addressed to my satisfactino and which I didn't have room to address in
DL15C.
And some very interesting ones as well. I've heard he's a mage in "Brothers
in Arms", it'll be interesting to see how he's handled there.
> << I'll get back to
> that when I've finished reading it. Believe it or not, the continuity
> issues in DLC15A don't really bother me that much. >>
>
> I believe you. I get the feeling that you're a little like me... if you
can see
> a good reason for a continuity deviation, you don't mind it as much, if
at all.
Depends on the reason. In an RPG adventure (like DLC15A), I see a reason
for a continuity deviation. In a source book like TotL or a novel like
Silver Stair, I don't. But there is one thing I hope you keep in mind for
the future, and that is to *not* use DLC15A as a standard for which
continuity should be based. If Sla-Mori is visited later, for example, the
map of it looks like it did in DL2, DoAT and the Atlas, not the
stripped-down version in DLC15A.
> << To quote Jack Nicholson in Mars Attacks!, "Why can't we all just get
> along." :) >>
>
> I'm all in favour of this. :)
But then the question arises in how it should be done, and it has gotten me
into more than one debate. Should the books be brought closer to the game
or shuold the game be brought close to the book? :)
> <<
> Just a feeling I get. Like someone trying to do something very cool and
> perhaps meaningful by doing a stylistic change, and then failing
miserably. >>
>
> Yes... but why would the attempt to do something cool and perhaps
meaningful
> mean that it's aimed at ten-year-olds? That's where you lost me.
OK, the end result makes it look like the setting is aimed at
ten-year-olds. Or they attempt to make it cool for ten-year-olds. I don't
see why they think that an adult would think it's cool, but perhaps they do
think that.
> In what is
> coming common usage (or so it seems to me), if I don't like something, it
> therefore has to be cheesy.
Again, I can't speak for others, but there may be various reasons not to
like something, "cheesy" being one of them.
Morten
Dtron5
all gods, shouldn't the word "god" be capitolized when refering to him?
Steve Miller
[guessing what four continuity errors I've made over the years in official
products that I can think of off the top of my head]
<< Hmmm... Let me guess: Gully dwarves being human-dwarf crossbreeds (HoD), >>
Nope. That's not an error. That was an instance where there was contradictory
info, and I had to make a choice. (And in my original draft, I *did* make a nod
to the fact that there was contradictory info in print.)
<< Quivalin Soth (HoD), >>
Nope, that's not an error, because Q. Soth's name has been attached to poems he
couldn't possibly have written... unless there was a Q. Soth around in the
modern day.
<< Ariakas (DLC15A), >>
That's not an error, either. That's 100% correct.
<< Raggard being a cleric of
Kiri-Jolith (DLC15A), >>
I guess I don't know why that would be an error. (What else would he logically
be? Raggard is an instance where I may have unknowingly made a mistake... but
the primary sources on him that I'm aware of do not specify exactly who it is
he is a cleric of.)
<< Winston's Tower (OoG) >>
This is only an error if you think DL12 is 100% accurate in all things. As much
as I love that product, it's not.
<< the location of the Karthay
dwarven realm (OoG).. >>
Yep. That is one of the true blue screw-ups made by yours truly!
<< seems there are more than four. :) >>
Depends on how you define "error," I suppose.
<< But there is one thing I hope you keep in mind for
the future, and that is to *not* use DLC15A as a standard for which
continuity should be based. >>
If that's a general "you," you're right. If that's directed at me, it's no
longer in my my hands. I'm pretty much done with Dragonlance.
<< If Sla-Mori is visited later, for example, the
map of it looks like it did in DL2, DoAT and the Atlas, not the
stripped-down version in DLC15A. >>
Even the "stripped-down" version in DLC15A is more detailed than the one found
in DoAT. IF DoAT is one of the continuity standards, then the Sla-Mori is wide
open. (BTW, none of the versions you say should be the standard for the Pax
Tharkas Sla-Mori make even a half-hearted effort to explain where that goofy
giant slug came from!)
<< But then the question arises in how it should be done, and it has gotten me
into more than one debate. Should the books be brought closer to the game
or shuold the game be brought close to the book? :) >>
My opinion on this has been well-known from about two months after this
newsgroup was founded. :)
Of course, it's an opinion that no longer impacts on the "real" DL. (And there
was much rejoicing among those who never even bothered to look at the stuff
I've written!)
Steve Miller
Writer of Stuff
Absurdity, n. A statement of belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own
opinion.
--Ambrose Bierce, "The
Devil's Dictionary"
Altarielle
Tols...@c032.aone.net.au writes:
> I just rewrote WoD history and European myth by killing boy Galahad :)
Why Galahad? His pop Lancelot and King Arthur are tragic enough.
>
<30 year leaps in the timeline have hurt DL continuity>
> I note they haven't covered the rise of either in detail
Which is why I hope WoS does its leaps, if any, in smaller increments.
>
<Altie's mom was offered 50 camels for her in Egypt>
>
> is that the going rate?
Premium rate. But 50 camels don't fit in a suitcase.
<Krynnish pantheon returns to install a dictatorship of the proletariat.>
The gods should treat Krynn like a Peace Corp assignment if they return ---
educate all who can learn about the full extent of mysticism and sorcery and
then depart to screw up another world.
<Astinus' royalties from the Soulforge>
Astinus probably gets a cut from every Soulforge scroll that's distributed
at the Minstrel Academy.
>
<If La Donna were on trial, Dalamar would cast the deciding vote for
impeachment.>
>
> naive me thought he'd vote *for* the Prez.
Not when Dalamar stands in line to become the next "Prez."
> > >> Little things make you so happy.
> > ><thunk>
> >
> > Aww. Overcome with happiness.
>
> suppressed shots don't really spray blood
That's good to know. The assassins won't make a mess for your mom.
>
> > >> >> ><sue yo ass>
> either way, I'm the only law.
Laws are meant to be broken.
>
<Plants provided natural birth control in Ancient Cyprus>
>
> so the Roman-era Du Ponts muscled in?
Probably. Or Cyprus lost a war and the Romans sowed the earth with salt.
>
<Dragonarmy soldiers would notice if an Ariakas imposter were about.>
>
> you think they assiduously research the truth for campfire stories?
Two dragon riders fly in from opposite directions and both claim to have
come from meeting with Ariakas. Makes great camp talk.
>
<Rohan wouldn't use his real name in a publication>
There are worse names out there than yours. Although being stuck
with the junior label is not much fun, I would imagine.
>
<What can give Altie nightmares?>
> United Fruit just had all its SouthAm assets nationalised
I don't invest in the agricultural commodities market.
> > >I never had the out of class time to hang around campus
> >
> > You'll make up for what you missed when you're out and on your own.
>
> promise or threat?
Prediction.
<What to do with a time machine? Visit hero-resurrecting author-son>
>
> too much paradox potential
True. He may decide to bump you off and thereby eliminate his birth.
>
> > >> <Bathing for roses>
> in extremis, is a red rose okay? Can you get your red cell count down
> considerably?
Won't matter. All flower deliveries must be left at the front door.
>
> > >> <The Swiss Guards at the Vatican are ceremonial kender>
> who the hell's going to pull a gun at the ticket office?
Someone who wants to get a pass to the Papal Audience after hours.
>
> are we talking totally skintight? Can always fit a holdout somewhere.
If they put the gun in the pantaloons, they'll be dead before they draw.
> > Letting nature punish rogue greenpeacers is a good way to go. And
> > unlike the KoS, American considerations have far reaching ramifications.
>
> a case of America being empire-building
Mike Tyson politics. If you act big and bad, people are less likely to jump
you.
<A busload of female inmates are waiting for Dalamar>
>
> did I mention he's the only male they've seen in years?
After a certain number of years in prison, how many of them will turn
out to be Kitiara fans?
>
<You're not going to be putting anything into me anytime soon dear.>
> > >
> > >bugger
> >
> > Glad you see things my way.
>
> I was talking about apples!
You want to bugger an apple?
>
> And having heard it from a comedian, have you ever had a 'openminded
> vegetarian' flatmate tried to stick a pumpkin up his arse?
I don't believe in the sexual exploitation of defenseless vegetables.
<Rohan really looks a lot like his successful dad>
Big time pressure then. But you're certainly not an introvert as far as AFDL
and the list are concerned.
>
<Are MIS managers sivaks?>
>
> more teeth, less tail anybody?
I'm rather proud of my tail, and I've been known to take a pound of flesh
if provoked. That's why I like Slith.
>
<It was rumored that Clinton and Streisand were rather friendly>
>
> perhaps I should not enquire much further
I personally think it was just a crush on her part.
<Gunthar says to the elves, "I'll think about changing the Measure."
What will the elves do>
> remind him and possibly threaten him. But do so calmly and privately.
Gunthar's reminded and he points out that the elves should clean up their
own house first. Is this where the Silvanesti sit-in gets staged?
>
> I'm just going to remove your skin to make sure you're human
Sivak. See above. You'll do anything to get under my skin, it seems.
>
<Planned Koalataur parenthood>
> multi-stage plan. And I've been an adult for three years, three months.
And you say you don't have a lot of out of class time.
> > If kenders are cousins to hobbits, then it's a safe bet that they had
> > tobacco. Hobbits lit up like chimneys.
>
> have to do something if there aren't any females over 12 and under 40.
What a loaded statement.
> > Tom may not be a real lawyer, but he sure can fill out a pair of briefs.
>
> and that's the only requirement? The 'advisor' in Thelma and Louise had
> a better idea.
Depends on your point of view. Tom's briefs are first rate.
>
> > >> >> <Sturm risked placing the heroes in danger when he wouldn't shave>
> > <There are plenty of masculine looking women out there.>
> >
> > >true. But you couldn't really mistake those two for women
> >
> > Female half ogres then.
>
> from Solace?
And Matafleur's going to look at them and say "Halt! These women can't
be half ogres, they're from Solace."
>
> > <Linsha's a Frankenstein Majeres?
> > Linsha's given to gloomy introspection like her uncle Raist.
>
> chap with wings, five rounds rapid. Please, be original.
She's got a little of Sturm's melancholy and self doubt as well.
> > The Jesuit general protects matters of the faith.
>
> taking 'pen is mightier than the sword' a little too literally?
When it comes to debunking miracles and such, the Jesuits wield quite
a devastating pen.
>
> Thorbardin was like pre-WW2 America, in that they ended up with a king
> who *was* expeditionary after a huge period of isolationism. In any
> event, they wouldn't trust the elves without KoS restraint, and they
> know the elves need a revised Measure.
Let me rephrase the question, cousellor, -- 2nd gen states that dwarves,
elves, and KoS needed to work together for the betterment of Krynn. But
where does it state that the dwarves gave a hoot about the Measure, or
that they trusted the KoS any more than they did the elves? And that the
dwarves would be hesitant to treat with the KoS if the elves were pissed?
The Big 6 has portrayed these parties as disinterested in each other.
>
> bourgeois economy, overproducing rather than to meet demand
Petite folks will one day rule the world.
> > Bond is Fleming's version of Dhamon Grimwulf. Or what Caramon would
> > have become if he hadn't married Tika.
>
> Dhamon's more of a ridiculous attempt at a tragic hero. Bond's just
> pure Boys Own munchkin.
Think about it though. Bond's kill ratio is as unbelievable as Dhamon's.
>Caramon I can't see sipping vodka martinis.
Not after Legends, at any rate. Maybe during the Dwarf Gate war.
>
> > <Rohan as a heavenly entree>
> > >they closed Valhalla?
> >
> > It's undergoing renovations.
>
> to which end?
Adding techno music and a disco next to the Wagner Opera house.
< Just blame Dalamar.>
>
> you want to piss *him* off? Not even Vee could save you.
Dalamar's rather grateful for the use of the tub.
>
> > >> >> <Morten asked for FAQ feedback the other day>
> > Some folks may be novice internet users, but others are just too
> > lazy to look the faq up.
>
> 50/50
Considering how many people ask for that book list, I'd say it's sways more
toward the former. Veteran internet folks just go to the WotC website.
>
> > >> >> >> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
>
> would you believe a mate said I could get into ASIO and infiltrate
> dissident groups?
Well, you do have the rhetoric down pat ....
>
> power is more important than size
Definitely agree with that statement. In most instances, size doesn't matter.
>
> > >> >> >> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
> he'd be pissed off that a fellow Hispanic's after him for no apparent
> reason. And you don't want to know his resouces.
Sword can't shock me either. And we can probably reason a deal out.
>
> > >> <Sean and Sword go after Guen>
> > It's Salvatore's characters. Magic rules.
>
> ...said the wizard before playing Tale of the Comet
Magic has unlimited and unpredictable results. And Salvatore characters
stumble onto the most powerful magics in the blink of an eye.
>
<Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
> > Greenland's where Jack Frost lives. And the reindeer wouldn't like being
> > waterlogged.
>
> big underwater dome with access tunnels
These are reindeer, not worms. They won't like mud anymore than water.
>
> > >> >my hand's very expressive and I do a lot of important stuff with it.
> > Picking your nose should be done in private.
>
> not quite included in the definition of important stuff
Depends on how much it itches, or if something is visible outside the nostril.
<Pizza with Aussie cheese>
> make sure it's 'dairy cheese' and not 'Australian cheese.' We can be
> somewhat sneaky.
I'll be sorry for asking this, but what other cheese is there?
>
> > <Will someone please get rid of David Hinckley>
> > >give Reagan a gun then
> >
> > Reagan can't even shoot the breeze these days.
>
> give him a shotgun. Or arm all the dipshits who voted for him.
Everyone who voted for him is a Bush jr fan now.
>
> > >> <Rohan's missed the signal>
> > How cozy. It's not "Sonnets from the Portuguese," but such passion makes
> > me blush nonetheless.
>
> cut her as a dog
> agonise her with great pains
> sell her for a test
Now there's a Haiku that will get you lots of dates. Not.
>
> > <My cat Vee's a hopeless catnip addict>
> > >play with her mind then
> > Doesn't work. She plays back.
>
> you been reading the Sith Academy fanfics?
No. Rarely read fanfics these days. Too busy,.
>
> > >> >thinking of getting a commission
> > <Corrective eye surgery is an option>
> good question and why hide what I am?
Be all that you can be in the army. US recruiting slogan.
>
> > Full-time employment is not so bad after the first year, when you
> > get used to not having summers off.
>
> I never did anything with my holidays anyway
But you miss the freedom of not doing anything. Newbie workers get 19
days if they're corporate types like me.
> > <Morten as a stepdad means in-house tutoring>
> > >my academic skills are reasonable
> >
> > He might even let you DM your own game.
>
> English-speaking team players?
His English doesn't seem to be that bad. Morten's posts are certainly
coherent.
>
> ah, the pseudo-European 'spheres of influence' approach whereby the
> United States owns the 'western hemisphere,' and thus it's unacceptable
> for the Russians to have a base there.
The Romans invited the Goths in and look where it got them. A smart
nation always protects the sovereignty of its borders.
>
> > >> >> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
> > >in any event, some US ally was dealing with Libya
> >
> > The French complained in principle, but they didn't seem too broken up
> > about it.
>
> what about the Brits?
Same thing. They postured, but not one trade agreement was broken.
> > <Simon's found the blackmail videotape>
> > Simon will eventually share his findings with AFDL.
>
> I think everybody including him is in for a surprise
Well, Simon's birthday is just around the corner .....
Tolstrup
>
> Why Galahad? His pop Lancelot and King Arthur are tragic enough.
apparently if he'd found the Grail it would've really screwed up the
faerie folk. It was good that he died, because we also killed Morgan La
Fey, who came up with the technique that kept them alive in the
Changeling game. And it was fun watching a good aligned pc grab a small
boy by the head and snap his neck.
> <30 year leaps in the timeline have hurt DL continuity>
> > I note they haven't covered the rise of either in detail
> Which is why I hope WoS does its leaps, if any, in smaller increments.
I'm inclined for another twenty years, neatly killing off Caramon, Tika,
Goldmoon, Crysania and Bertrem. Palin and Usha are rejuvenated to their
early twenties in a holocaust that wipes out their entire smeggin'
family. And then 'Palin woke up.'
> <Altie's mom was offered 50 camels for her in Egypt>
> > is that the going rate?
>
> Premium rate. But 50 camels don't fit in a suitcase.
thought you quoted a triple digit figure. So was the fifty for dowry
purposes or was he fingering a collar with a padlock and chain? Did you
manage to pass for a local?
> <Krynnish pantheon returns to install a dictatorship of the proletariat.>
> The gods should treat Krynn like a Peace Corp assignment if they return ---
> educate all who can learn about the full extent of mysticism and sorcery and
> then depart to screw up another world.
Age of Mortals should be reached Greek-style: rise up and slay thy
parents!
> <Astinus' royalties from the Soulforge>
> Astinus probably gets a cut from every Soulforge scroll that's distributed
> at the Minstrel Academy.
he owns the Krynnish version of Harpercollins, having produced the first
known in-world fiction bestseller.
> <If La Donna were on trial, Dalamar would cast the deciding vote for
> impeachment.>
> > naive me thought he'd vote *for* the Prez.
> Not when Dalamar stands in line to become the next "Prez."
George Bush, Dan Quayle and Al Gore are starting to become logical picks
> > > >> Little things make you so happy.
> > > ><thunk>
> > >
> > > Aww. Overcome with happiness.
> >
> > suppressed shots don't really spray blood
>
> That's good to know. The assassins won't make a mess for your mom.
you will recall I was referring to an encounter with a security matron
and her subsequent carpet status.
> > > >> >> ><sue yo ass>
> > either way, I'm the only law.
> Laws are meant to be broken.
you need a permit, and around here only I have one.
> <Plants provided natural birth control in Ancient Cyprus>
> > so the Roman-era Du Ponts muscled in?
> Probably. Or Cyprus lost a war and the Romans sowed the earth with salt.
BASTARDS
> <Dragonarmy soldiers would notice if an Ariakas imposter were about.>
> > you think they assiduously research the truth for campfire stories?
>
> Two dragon riders fly in from opposite directions and both claim to have
> come from meeting with Ariakas. Makes great camp talk.
dragon riders are universally ranking officers. Certainly Legacy of
Steel is a load of shit. They'd be more likely to be in on the
mystique, which is for the consumption of the scum anyway.
> <Rohan wouldn't use his real name in a publication>
> There are worse names out there than yours. Although being stuck
> with the junior label is not much fun, I would imagine.
I could write for Mills & Boon under the pseudonym Turdmeister...
> <What can give Altie nightmares?>
> > United Fruit just had all its SouthAm assets nationalised
> I don't invest in the agricultural commodities market.
Dalamar, scarred by his experiences with Kitiara and the overtures from
an ugly old hag who used to be his mistress, has 'gone to the other
side'
> > > >I never had the out of class time to hang around campus
> > >
> > > You'll make up for what you missed when you're out and on your own.
> >
> > promise or threat?
>
> Prediction.
<spin>
> <What to do with a time machine? Visit hero-resurrecting author-son>
> > too much paradox potential
> True. He may decide to bump you off and thereby eliminate his birth.
but he won't know I'm coming
> > > >> <Bathing for roses>
> > in extremis, is a red rose okay? Can you get your red cell count down
> > considerably?
> Won't matter. All flower deliveries must be left at the front door.
I can work with that, but I'll need specific info on your height and the
way you open your door. Or I can deliver it to your window.
> > > >> <The Swiss Guards at the Vatican are ceremonial kender>
> > who the hell's going to pull a gun at the ticket office?
>
> Someone who wants to get a pass to the Papal Audience after hours.
the kender probably have crocodile-skinners
> > are we talking totally skintight? Can always fit a holdout somewhere.
>
> If they put the gun in the pantaloons, they'll be dead before they draw.
plenty of room for a concealed holster system. Could possibly fit a
micro-uzi in.
> > > Letting nature punish rogue greenpeacers is a good way to go. And
> > > unlike the KoS, American considerations have far reaching ramifications.
> >
> > a case of America being empire-building
>
> Mike Tyson politics. If you act big and bad, people are less likely to jump
> you.
and naturally they're just *waiting* for you to make that ONE slip-up
> <A busload of female inmates are waiting for Dalamar>
> > did I mention he's the only male they've seen in years?
> After a certain number of years in prison, how many of them will turn
> out to be Kitiara fans?
if nothing else it'd be a change of scenery. And he does look like Cleo
Decapitated with personality.
> <You're not going to be putting anything into me anytime soon dear.>
> > > >
> > > >bugger
> > >
> > > Glad you see things my way.
> >
> > I was talking about apples!
>
> You want to bugger an apple?
that's a physical impossibility. I see you're having grammar problems.
> > And having heard it from a comedian, have you ever had a 'openminded
> > vegetarian' flatmate tried to stick a pumpkin up his arse?
>
> I don't believe in the sexual exploitation of defenseless vegetables.
pies, veggies... are you politically correct or something?
> <Rohan really looks a lot like his successful dad>
> Big time pressure then. But you're certainly not an introvert as far as AFDL
> and the list are concerned.
when I can write things down and think about it I'm okay. And if you
met both of us together you'd know what I mean. He's the sort who calls
the restaurant manager over for a chat because he's a tourist.
> <Are MIS managers sivaks?>
> > more teeth, less tail anybody?
> I'm rather proud of my tail, and I've been known to take a pound of flesh
> if provoked. That's why I like Slith.
you aren't worried about Pentex?
> <It was rumored that Clinton and Streisand were rather friendly>
> > perhaps I should not enquire much further
>
> I personally think it was just a crush on her part.
is she some kind of masochist?
> <Gunthar says to the elves, "I'll think about changing the Measure."
> What will the elves do>
> > remind him and possibly threaten him. But do so calmly and privately.
> Gunthar's reminded and he points out that the elves should clean up their
> own house first. Is this where the Silvanesti sit-in gets staged?
he's mainly talking to Porthios here, and Porthios at least is actually
making efforts to fix the problems. Strangely the *elves* are fixing
ingrained problems faster than the KoS.
> > I'm just going to remove your skin to make sure you're human
> Sivak. See above. You'll do anything to get under my skin, it seems.
Excuse me while I ring my buddies at Area 51. They may be interested.
> <Planned Koalataur parenthood>
> > multi-stage plan. And I've been an adult for three years, three months.
> And you say you don't have a lot of out of class time.
I just don't hang around people of my age and background much
> > > If kenders are cousins to hobbits, then it's a safe bet that they had
> > > tobacco. Hobbits lit up like chimneys.
> >
> > have to do something if there aren't any females over 12 and under 40.
> What a loaded statement.
the 'Ring' is of course code. And what are they sucking on?
> > > Tom may not be a real lawyer, but he sure can fill out a pair of briefs.
> >
> > and that's the only requirement? The 'advisor' in Thelma and Louise had
> > a better idea.
>
> Depends on your point of view. Tom's briefs are first rate.
too Dilbert
> > > Female half ogres then.
> >
> > from Solace?
>
> And Matafleur's going to look at them and say "Halt! These women can't
> be half ogres, they're from Solace."
I was more worried about the numerous guard posts on the way.
> > > <Linsha's a Frankenstein Majeres?
> > > Linsha's given to gloomy introspection like her uncle Raist.
> > chap with wings, five rounds rapid. Please, be original.
> She's got a little of Sturm's melancholy and self doubt as well.
and she's pretty useless if a member of another race, naturally biased
against her, sees through her act. Read the book, read some of the
appendix, will report soon.
> > > The Jesuit general protects matters of the faith.
> > taking 'pen is mightier than the sword' a little too literally?
> When it comes to debunking miracles and such, the Jesuits wield quite
> a devastating pen.
are you sure they're not packing?
> Let me rephrase the question, cousellor, -- 2nd gen states that dwarves,
> elves, and KoS needed to work together for the betterment of Krynn. But
> where does it state that the dwarves gave a hoot about the Measure, or
> that they trusted the KoS any more than they did the elves? And that the
> dwarves would be hesitant to treat with the KoS if the elves were pissed?
>
> The Big 6 has portrayed these parties as disinterested in each other.
the elves would be scared shitless by such an alliance. For the dwarven
part, surely a lot of hill dwarf communities trade with the Qualinesti
(and the hill dwarves would have needed to be involved, they're not
aghar and can't be ignored), and also would be scared of losing their
backers. Similarly, who wants to be a target for the elves? Much
better to have them on-side.
> > bourgeois economy, overproducing rather than to meet demand
> Petite folks will one day rule the world.
...which is why western society is deliberately making everybody fat.
> > > Bond is Fleming's version of Dhamon Grimwulf. Or what Caramon would
> > > have become if he hadn't married Tika.
> >
> > Dhamon's more of a ridiculous attempt at a tragic hero. Bond's just
> > pure Boys Own munchkin.
>
> Think about it though. Bond's kill ratio is as unbelievable as Dhamon's.
Dhamon at least is a professional warrior. Although a dragon rider, I
can believe he would have melee training. But neither has a reason to
be that good in combat, especially not Dhamon, who hasn't trained
properly for probably several years.
> >Caramon I can't see sipping vodka martinis.
> Not after Legends, at any rate. Maybe during the Dwarf Gate war.
for him it was ale or dwarf spirits. Martini's too subtle.
> > > <Rohan as a heavenly entree>
> > > >they closed Valhalla?
> > > It's undergoing renovations.
> > to which end?
> Adding techno music and a disco next to the Wagner Opera house.
excuse me while I get my Theurge to dedicate a few thousand rounds of
ammo. I feel I may need some serious firepower up there.
> < Just blame Dalamar.>
> > you want to piss *him* off? Not even Vee could save you.
> Dalamar's rather grateful for the use of the tub.
he can get a tub anywhere
> > > >> >> <Morten asked for FAQ feedback the other day>
> > > Some folks may be novice internet users, but others are just too
> > > lazy to look the faq up.
> >
> > 50/50
>
> Considering how many people ask for that book list, I'd say it's sways more
> toward the former. Veteran internet folks just go to the WotC website.
even MAD is calling 'em Lizards of the Coast (Buzzards is better).
Incidentally, this month's cover has a 'how should we kill this Pokemon'
competition. Too late to enter, but I'd vote 'obliterated under a
steamroller' for Pikachu. Or 'could you demonstrate that again?'
> > > >> >> >> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
<me pulling a FBI-black panther move?>
> Well, you do have the rhetoric down pat ....
should see me when intoxicated
> > power is more important than size
> Definitely agree with that statement. In most instances, size doesn't matter.
*most*???????????
> > > >> >> >> <With the right amount of effort, Sword can be eliminated>
> > he'd be pissed off that a fellow Hispanic's after him for no apparent
> > reason. And you don't want to know his resouces.
>
> Sword can't shock me either. And we can probably reason a deal out.
he doesn't really do deals, as he's more after retribution than 'legal
justice.' But if you can help him...
> > > >> <Sean and Sword go after Guen>
> > > It's Salvatore's characters. Magic rules.
> > ...said the wizard before playing Tale of the Comet
> Magic has unlimited and unpredictable results. And Salvatore characters
> stumble onto the most powerful magics in the blink of an eye.
and he's writing Star Wars novels as well. Official continuity. I'd
like to see how Dri$$t deals with a combat shotgun.
> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
> > > Greenland's where Jack Frost lives. And the reindeer wouldn't like being
> > > waterlogged.
> >
> > big underwater dome with access tunnels
>
> These are reindeer, not worms. They won't like mud anymore than water.
this can be hermetic
> > > >> >my hand's very expressive and I do a lot of important stuff with it.
>
> > > Picking your nose should be done in private.
> >
> > not quite included in the definition of important stuff
> Depends on how much it itches, or if something is visible outside the nostril.
sometimes it's just an emergency. But I meant more significant acts.
> <Pizza with Aussie cheese>
> > make sure it's 'dairy cheese' and not 'Australian cheese.' We can be
> > somewhat sneaky.
>
> I'll be sorry for asking this, but what other cheese is there?
well, there's "Siegfried Cheese" (marketed in most multicultural cities,
international HQ in Argentina). I suggest looking "Cheese" up.
> > > Reagan can't even shoot the breeze these days.
> > give him a shotgun. Or arm all the dipshits who voted for him.
> Everyone who voted for him is a Bush jr fan now.
lock AND load
> > > >> <Rohan's missed the signal>
> > > How cozy. It's not "Sonnets from the Portuguese," but such passion makes
> > > me blush nonetheless.
> >
> > cut her as a dog
> > agonise her with great pains
> > sell her for a test
>
> Now there's a Haiku that will get you lots of dates. Not.
that's what I send to Simon's girlfriends over his signature
> > > <My cat Vee's a hopeless catnip addict>
> > > >play with her mind then
> > > Doesn't work. She plays back.
> >
> > you been reading the Sith Academy fanfics?
>
> No. Rarely read fanfics these days. Too busy,.
if you can cope with a gay Obi-Wan, Maul training his own 'practice
apprentice' (a psychotic cat strong in the Dark Side), and a drinking
game that encourages two shots when you read "oh shit. He'd slept with
Obi-Wan Kenobi again" then have a look some time.
> > > >> >thinking of getting a commission
> > > <Corrective eye surgery is an option>
> > good question and why hide what I am?
> Be all that you can be in the army. US recruiting slogan.
the yanks also came up with Manifest Destiny and a convenient mental
blockage where the side-effects of 'going for the prize' on others are
forgotten.
> > > Full-time employment is not so bad after the first year, when you
> > > get used to not having summers off.
> >
> > I never did anything with my holidays anyway
>
> But you miss the freedom of not doing anything. Newbie workers get 19
> days if they're corporate types like me.
still get weekends tho? Days off every now 'n again?
> > > <Morten as a stepdad means in-house tutoring>
> > > >my academic skills are reasonable
> > > He might even let you DM your own game.
> >
> > English-speaking team players?
>
> His English doesn't seem to be that bad. Morten's posts are certainly
> coherent.
hmm. I *may* have kinda solved the problem. Last week I got to run
something, with three blokes from the Werewolf game. We went nearly
twelve hours (I impressed them with my stamina), and a somewhat shorter
sequel is planned for the 30th. Apart from them being psychotic little
munchkins (one insisted on getting a micro-missile launcher in one of
his unnecessary paired cyberarms, and became obsessed with getting his
hands on a 'battlewagon'-type cybertiger), we generally focussed on RP
over mindless bloodshed. And the 'honest' cop decided to piss off with
the evidence the entire party needed. I swear he botched the athletics
roll on his own. He was last seen with cyberlegs and cloned balls,
having landed badly after jumping from a third-floor window. He's got
at least ten grand to pay off, and everybody on the force hates him.
Pop Quiz: if you saw a dozen dorphed-out blokes in black trenchcoats
entering a supermarket, would you walk up and switch off their boombox?
> > ah, the pseudo-European 'spheres of influence' approach whereby the
> > United States owns the 'western hemisphere,' and thus it's unacceptable
> > for the Russians to have a base there.
> The Romans invited the Goths in and look where it got them. A smart
> nation always protects the sovereignty of its borders.
the hypocrisy of having a similar base in Turkey...
> > > >> >> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
> > > >in any event, some US ally was dealing with Libya
> > >
> > > The French complained in principle, but they didn't seem too broken up
> > > about it.
> >
> > what about the Brits?
>
> Same thing. They postured, but not one trade agreement was broken.
great way to jeopardise relations
> > > <Simon's found the blackmail videotape>
> > > Simon will eventually share his findings with AFDL.
> >
> > I think everybody including him is in for a surprise
>
> Well, Simon's birthday is just around the corner .....
tomorrow. I was planning to get him a bottle, but I was visiting my
cousin in House & Garden and she flogged me some beer glasses.
Of course, I *might* see him in the morning tomorrow: duty at the gun
club (emptying bins and stealing cars from the engine factory next door)
then Werewolf up in the Dandenongs (driving there probably direct from
Port Melbourne, about 50km). Looks like I'm packing my own lunch.
Rohan "pleasure of pain" Tolstrup
give 'em the fist
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Rohan killed Sir Galahad in a game for all sorts of reasons>
Galahad was always a favorite of mine, precisely because he
contrasted so well with Lancelot. Percival I could do without.
>
>> <30 year leaps in the timeline have hurt DL continuity>
>I'm inclined for another twenty years, neatly killing off Caramon, Tika,
>Goldmoon, Crysania and Bertrem. Palin and Usha are rejuvenated to their
>early twenties in a holocaust that wipes out their entire smeggin'
>family. And then 'Palin woke up.'
Palin having a dream is about as cheesy as you can go. And Caramon
has earned a death scene. I'd rather have all the loose ends tied up.
>
>> <Altie's mom was offered 50 camels for her in Egypt>
>thought you quoted a triple digit figure.
No proofreading in previous post.
> So was the fifty for dowry
>purposes or was he fingering a collar with a padlock and chain? Did you
>manage to pass for a local?
Not on closer inspection. My skin is a light olive, so I don't look like
someone who grew up in the desert. But I did get a couple of folks
trying to talk to me in Egyptian.
>
>> <Krynnish pantheon returns to install a dictatorship of the proletariat.>
>
>Age of Mortals should be reached Greek-style: rise up and slay thy
>parents!
Unfortunately the children of the Greek gods sprang up fully formed and
powerful. Mortals aren't there yet.
>> <If La Donna were on trial, Dalamar would cast the deciding vote for
>> impeachment.>
>George Bush, Dan Quayle and Al Gore are starting to become logical picks
Dan Quayle has dropped out of the race. And his becoming Prez is the
equivalent of Bupu becoming head of the Conclave.
>> > > >> >> ><sue yo ass>
>> > either way, I'm the only law.
>> Laws are meant to be broken.
>
>you need a permit, and around here only I have one.
A temporary obstacle at best.
>
>> <Dragonarmy soldiers would notice if an Ariakas imposter were about.>
>dragon riders are universally ranking officers. Certainly Legacy of
>Steel is a load of shit. They'd be more likely to be in on the
>mystique, which is for the consumption of the scum anyway.
I can see Ariakas keeping knowledge of the imposter to himself, to
draw potential assassination attempts away.
>
>> <What can give Altie nightmares?>
>Dalamar, scarred by his experiences with Kitiara and the overtures from
>an ugly old hag who used to be his mistress, has 'gone to the other
>side'
That's not a nightmare, that's a cause for grief.
>
<I predict Rohan will become a social butterfly once he's on his own>
><spin>
You see, you're lightening up already.
>
>> <What to do with a time machine? Visit hero-resurrecting author-son>
>but he won't know I'm coming
He'll have read these posts.
>
<Flower Delivery>
>I can work with that, but I'll need specific info on your height and the
>way you open your door. Or I can deliver it to your window.
I'll just pick them up at the FTD florist after I'm done.
>
>> > > >> <The Swiss Guards at the Vatican are ceremonial kender>
>> If they put the gun in the pantaloons, they'll be dead before they draw.
>
>plenty of room for a concealed holster system. Could possibly fit a
>micro-uzi in.
Wow. Madonna ethics get in the way of this one.
>
< America being empire-building>
>>
>> Mike Tyson politics. If you act big and bad, people are less likely to
>jump you.
>
>and naturally they're just *waiting* for you to make that ONE slip-up
No guts, no glory. You just have to have a contingency plan.
>
>> <A busload of female inmates are waiting for Dalamar>
>if nothing else it'd be a change of scenery. And he does look like Cleo
>Decapitated with personality.
Leo as Dalamar? No way, Dalamar is tall. I can maybe accept Brad Pitt.
>
>> You want to bugger an apple?
>
>that's a physical impossibility. I see you're having grammar problems.
No, being irritating is just more fun than being grammatical.
>> I don't believe in the sexual exploitation of defenseless vegetables.
>
>pies, veggies... are you politically correct or something?
Somewhat. Veggies can't fight back against injustice.
>
<There's something of his dad in Rohan besides looks>
>
>when I can write things down and think about it I'm okay. And if you
>met both of us together you'd know what I mean. He's the sort who calls
>the restaurant manager over for a chat because he's a tourist.
My dad was the same way, and my mom's growing into the habit. She
will probably make a few friends when we take our annual mother-daughter
trip in December. It's Italy this year.
>
>> <Are MIS managers sivaks?>
>you aren't worried about Pentex?
I'm more worried about the auraks my boss has made enemies of.
>
>> <It was rumored that Clinton and Streisand were rather friendly>
>
>is she some kind of masochist?
Babs likes the spotlight, but she's happy with Brolin now.
>
>> <Gunthar says to the elves, "I'll think about changing the Measure."
>> What will the elves do>
>he's mainly talking to Porthios here, and Porthios at least is actually
>making efforts to fix the problems. Strangely the *elves* are fixing
>ingrained problems faster than the KoS.
But what Porthios was fixing, the Senate was trying to undo. So Porthios
was working fast, but it was due to internal strife. Neither side had time
for the KoS.
<Hobbits smoke because there are no eligible females around>
>
>the 'Ring' is of course code. And what are they sucking on?
Not going there.
<Tom Cruise fills out a hell of a set of briefs.>
>too Dilbert
Very Cosmo.
<Sturm and Caramon dressed as women could pass for female half ogres.>
<Matafluer couldn't tell the difference>
>I was more worried about the numerous guard posts on the way.
There was only1 set of guards. Matafleur was considered security enough.
>
>> > > <Linsha's a Frankenstein Majeres?
>and she's pretty useless if a member of another race, naturally biased
>against her, sees through her act.
The book made a point of the fact that Linsha's roleplaying suffered
because she thought it was dishonorable. It makes sense that Liam
would see through her.
>
>> > > The Jesuit general protects matters of the faith.
>are you sure they're not packing?
Not likely. Very few physically fit men are priests these days, let alone
someone strong enough to play assassin.
>
<Nowhere in 2nd Gen does it say that the dwarves would turn against the
KoS if the elves did>
>
>the elves would be scared shitless by such an alliance.
The elves are not at war with the dwarves, so the alliance would be
seen as a good thing.
>For the dwarven part, surely a lot of hill dwarf communities trade with
>the Qualinesti (and the hill dwarves would have needed to be involved,
>they're not aghar and can't be ignored), and also would be scared of
>losing their backers.
The hill dwarves can be neutral and be friendly to all. After all, the elves
don't turn their backs on the mountain dwarves because the hill dwarves
can't stand them.
>Similarly, who wants to be a target for the elves? Much
>better to have them on-side.
Yes, which is why no one's going to dredge up bad feelings over a
Solamnic document that is not hindering trade in the least.
>> > > >they closed Valhalla?
>> > > It's undergoing renovations.
>> > to which end?
>> Adding techno music and a disco next to the Wagner Opera house.
>
>excuse me while I get my Theurge to dedicate a few thousand rounds of
>ammo. I feel I may need some serious firepower up there.
You'll be blinded by the strobe lights, promptly disarmed and condemned
to spend eternity listening to the audio book for Uncle Trapspringer.
>
>> < Just blame Dalamar.>
>> > you want to piss *him* off? Not even Vee could save you.
>> Dalamar's rather grateful for the use of the tub.
>
>he can get a tub anywhere
One that much fun? Doubt it.
<MAD Magazine has a how to "Kill Pokemon" contest>
"Bankroll a medical study that proves Pokemon leads unsuspecting
children to worship the devil." I'm sure Sega would pay up.
>
>> > > >> >> >> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
><me pulling a FBI-black panther move?>
>> Well, you do have the rhetoric down pat ....
>
>should see me when intoxicated
That should be worth watching.
>
>> > power is more important than size
>> Definitely agree with that statement. In most instances, size doesn't
>matter.
>
>*most*???????????
;-)
>> > > >> <Sean and Sword go after Guen>
>> > > It's Salvatore's characters. Magic rules.
>and he's writing Star Wars novels as well. Official continuity. I'd
>like to see how Dri$$t deals with a combat shotgun.
"Darth Maul vs the Drow" has already been done at Dragon Con. Salvatore
was actually here yesterday signing his book. Seems like a nice enough
guy, although I just listened a bit on my way home from work.
>
>> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
>> > big underwater dome with access tunnels
>>
>> These are reindeer, not worms. They won't like mud anymore than water.
>
>this can be hermetic
Tubes big enough for reindeer to fly through dryly is not covert anymore.
>
<Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
<Nose picking counts as important only in an emergency.>
>sometimes it's just an emergency. But I meant more significant acts.
That kind of stuff should only be done in the privacy of your own room, dear.
>
>> <Pizza with Aussie cheese>
<No, I haven't looked up Aussie cheese yet>
>
<Rohan's cutting Haiku>
>
>that's what I send to Simon's girlfriends over his signature
If he's got more than one, then Simon's girls aren't buying it. Go Simon.
>
>> > you been reading the Sith Academy fanfics?
>>
>> No. Rarely read fanfics these days. Too busy,.
>
>if you can cope with a gay Obi-Wan, Maul training his own 'practice
>apprentice' (a psychotic cat strong in the Dark Side), and a drinking
>game that encourages two shots when you read "oh shit. He'd slept with
>Obi-Wan Kenobi again" then have a look some time.
They've got it confused. Sir Alec is gay, not Obi-Wan. And I could see
Qui-Gonn more as the cat man, since he picks up strays.
>
>> Be all that you can be in the army. US recruiting slogan.
>
>the yanks also came up with Manifest Destiny and a convenient mental
>blockage where the side-effects of 'going for the prize' on others are
>forgotten.
The world is a cruel and unfair place sometimes. The US gets a bad
rap because its been successful more often than not so far.
>
>> > > Full-time employment is not so bad after the first year, when you
>> > > get used to not having summers off.
>
>still get weekends tho? Days off every now 'n again?
Weekends and holidays, plus flex time in the summer. And my boss
actually lets us work from home on occasion, especially if we do
overtime a lot.
>
>hmm. I *may* have kinda solved the problem. Last week I got to run
>something, with three blokes from the Werewolf game. We went nearly
>twelve hours (I impressed them with my stamina), and a somewhat shorter
>sequel is planned for the 30th.
Congratulations. A full day at it does take a lot of stamina.
>Apart from them being psychotic little munchkins
Your kind of guys ;-) Good thing they're into the roleplaying aspect.
<Details on one guy who couldn't buy a favorable dice roll>
Every group needs an RPG Dilbert.
>Pop Quiz: if you saw a dozen dorphed-out blokes in black trenchcoats
>entering a supermarket, would you walk up and switch off their boombox?
Not really. The music's probably great to dance to.
>
>> A smart nation always protects the sovereignty of its borders.
>
>the hypocrisy of having a similar base in Turkey...
The Turks benefit from having US bully boys this close to home in case
the Cyprus thing heats up.
>
>> > > >> >> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
>> Same thing. They postured, but not one trade agreement was broken.
>
>great way to jeopardise relations
The US knew that the British are smart enough to pick their battles, and
this particular squabble would not be worth fighting over.
>> Well, Simon's birthday is just around the corner .....
>
<Simon's got his birthday gift, Rohan's taking the scenic route to the
Werewolf game>
Good Luck. Is it okay to wish Simon a Happy Birthday now?
forever darkness
>> do you seriously see weapons use as a break in conclave rules?
>
>Yes, I do. We had a thread on the weapons restrictions of mages before, but
>I still think that their restrictions are based on limitations by the
>Conclave.
in my opinion, mages aren't like clerics, in that the reason straight
mages have restrictions is not because it's a god thing. so
therefore, a mage *can* break a restriction if he's duel or multi
class, but cleric's on the other hand, can't.
but hey... that's my opinion on things.
>> i don't believe there's a strict weapons restriction, because what
>> does the conclave do in the case of multiclass wizards? you're a
>> fighter/mage and can't use a long sword? i don't believe that.
>
>This is where the AD&D system didn't fit perfectly into Dragonlance. The
>obvious example is Gilthanas, who was a multiclass fighter/wizard in the
>modules, but a fighter who is mage on a "hobby basis" (ie. using low-level
>magic you don't need to pass the Test to use), never developing his magic
>skill to arch-mage level.
but isn't that maybe a *personal* choice, as opposed to a rules
decision? that's why i think he wasn't a powerful wizard... he just
didn't want to be.
>> as for his loyalties, mages don't necessarily have to *worship* the
>> god of magic they serve through magic. they serve the god in the
>> sense that they use his/her magic and promote magic thusly.
>
>My point exactly.
glad we agree on something... :)
Tolstrup
> Galahad was always a favorite of mine, precisely because he
> contrasted so well with Lancelot. Percival I could do without.
cool. He was actually the chivalrous Ubermensch type without descending
into the traditional boredom that makes me yearn for a flaw.
> >> <30 year leaps in the timeline have hurt DL continuity>
> >I'm inclined for another twenty years, neatly killing off Caramon, Tika,
> >Goldmoon, Crysania and Bertrem. Palin and Usha are rejuvenated to their
> >early twenties in a holocaust that wipes out their entire smeggin'
> >family. And then 'Palin woke up.'
> Palin having a dream is about as cheesy as you can go. And Caramon
> has earned a death scene. I'd rather have all the loose ends tied up.
around his neck. Okay. Maybe we should send a Terminator to take out
the meeting where they decided on 5A's ridiculous direction.
> >> <Altie's mom was offered 50 camels for her in Egypt>
> >thought you quoted a triple digit figure.
> No proofreading in previous post.
I can give you fifty *Australian* camels - much better than that
Egyptian krep.
> > So was the fifty for dowry
> >purposes or was he fingering a collar with a padlock and chain? Did you
> >manage to pass for a local?
>
> Not on closer inspection. My skin is a light olive, so I don't look like
> someone who grew up in the desert. But I did get a couple of folks
> trying to talk to me in Egyptian.
<note>
I understood the 'desert walk' was completely different.
> >> <Krynnish pantheon returns to install a dictatorship of the proletariat.>
> >Age of Mortals should be reached Greek-style: rise up and slay thy
> >parents!
> Unfortunately the children of the Greek gods sprang up fully formed and
> powerful. Mortals aren't there yet.
tell that to Morten. But the We Are The World factor could be use to
deal with invading gods.
> >> <If La Donna were on trial, Dalamar would cast the deciding vote for
> >> impeachment.>
> >George Bush, Dan Quayle and Al Gore are starting to become logical picks
> Dan Quayle has dropped out of the race. And his becoming Prez is the
> equivalent of Bupu becoming head of the Conclave.
so it's Bush and that other ultraright macromillionaire. Decided which
to vote for? Reagan did ok.
> >> > > >> >> ><sue yo ass>
> >> > either way, I'm the only law.
> >> Laws are meant to be broken.
> >
> >you need a permit, and around here only I have one.
>
> A temporary obstacle at best.
every jurisdiction needs a police force, and mine wear Sam Browns and
jackboots when they're not in riot gear. I picked 'em up for a song
when the Russians stopped paying their Special Purpose units.
> >> <Dragonarmy soldiers would notice if an Ariakas imposter were about.>
> >dragon riders are universally ranking officers. Certainly Legacy of
> >Steel is a load of shit. They'd be more likely to be in on the
> >mystique, which is for the consumption of the scum anyway.
>
> I can see Ariakas keeping knowledge of the imposter to himself, to
> draw potential assassination attempts away.
it'd certainly work out. And most dragon riders wouldn't know where he
himself was at any given time.
> >> <What can give Altie nightmares?>
> >Dalamar, scarred by his experiences with Kitiara and the overtures from
> >an ugly old hag who used to be his mistress, has 'gone to the other
> >side'
> That's not a nightmare, that's a cause for grief.
you've been watching Threesome, haven't you?
> <I predict Rohan will become a social butterfly once he's on his own>
> ><spin>
>
> You see, you're lightening up already.
right
> >> <What to do with a time machine? Visit hero-resurrecting author-son>
>
> >but he won't know I'm coming
>
> He'll have read these posts.
NOBODY reads these posts
> <Flower Delivery>
> >I can work with that, but I'll need specific info on your height and the
> >way you open your door. Or I can deliver it to your window.
>
> I'll just pick them up at the FTD florist after I'm done.
my personalised roses can only be delivered personally or through my
service. Put on something white and look out the window.
> >> > > >> <The Swiss Guards at the Vatican are ceremonial kender>
>
> >> If they put the gun in the pantaloons, they'll be dead before they draw.
> >
> >plenty of room for a concealed holster system. Could possibly fit a
> >micro-uzi in.
>
> Wow. Madonna ethics get in the way of this one.
I was actually thinking of a breakaway or spring-launcher down one leg.
> <America being empire-building>
> >>
> >> Mike Tyson politics. If you act big and bad, people are less likely to
> >jump you.
> >
> >and naturally they're just *waiting* for you to make that ONE slip-up
>
> No guts, no glory. You just have to have a contingency plan.
"I'll bite his ear off." Did Reagan have a Plan B when he bombed Libya?
> >> <A busload of female inmates are waiting for Dalamar>
> >if nothing else it'd be a change of scenery. And he does look like Cleo
> >Decapitated with personality.
>
> Leo as Dalamar? No way, Dalamar is tall. I can maybe accept Brad Pitt.
pass the ammunition
> >> You want to bugger an apple?
> >
> >that's a physical impossibility. I see you're having grammar problems.
>
> No, being irritating is just more fun than being grammatical.
it's violent but it's fun
> >> I don't believe in the sexual exploitation of defenseless vegetables.
> >
> >pies, veggies... are you politically correct or something?
>
> Somewhat. Veggies can't fight back against injustice.
and yet you've bought into the 'American Dream' whereby nobody really
deserves welfare and Socialism's Bad Ummkay...
> <There's something of his dad in Rohan besides looks>
> >when I can write things down and think about it I'm okay. And if you
> >met both of us together you'd know what I mean. He's the sort who calls
> >the restaurant manager over for a chat because he's a tourist.
>
> My dad was the same way, and my mom's growing into the habit. She
> will probably make a few friends when we take our annual mother-daughter
> trip in December. It's Italy this year.
I can arrange a guided tour of Sicily
> >> <Are MIS managers sivaks?>
> >you aren't worried about Pentex?
> I'm more worried about the auraks my boss has made enemies of.
buy a gun. Keep it loaded and handy. Get the bullets blessed if
reasonably possible.
> >> <It was rumored that Clinton and Streisand were rather friendly>
> >is she some kind of masochist?
>
> Babs likes the spotlight, but she's happy with Brolin now.
Pensacola: Wings of Gold. Did I miss anything by not watching?
> >> <Gunthar says to the elves, "I'll think about changing the Measure."
> >> What will the elves do>
>
> >he's mainly talking to Porthios here, and Porthios at least is actually
> >making efforts to fix the problems. Strangely the *elves* are fixing
> >ingrained problems faster than the KoS.
>
> But what Porthios was fixing, the Senate was trying to undo. So Porthios
> was working fast, but it was due to internal strife. Neither side had time
> for the KoS.
Porthios' collapse was probably largely due to Gunthar's own failure to
deliver. There's strong evidence that these were interlinked.
> <Hobbits smoke because there are no eligible females around>
> >the 'Ring' is of course code. And what are they sucking on?
>
> Not going there.
pretty obvious that Raistlin wanted to #$%^ Rosamun inside his own arse,
isn't it?
> <Tom Cruise fills out a hell of a set of briefs.>
> >too Dilbert
>
> Very Cosmo.
Get. Out. Of. My. Head. To paraphrase Ikari Shinji "I'm a man."
> <Sturm and Caramon dressed as women could pass for female half ogres.>
> <Matafluer couldn't tell the difference>
> >I was more worried about the numerous guard posts on the way.
> There was only1 set of guards. Matafleur was considered security enough.
evidently the Highlords went to the Dalek Surveillance Academy.
> >> > > <Linsha's a Frankenstein Majeres?
>
> >and she's pretty useless if a member of another race, naturally biased
> >against her, sees through her act.
>
> The book made a point of the fact that Linsha's roleplaying suffered
> because she thought it was dishonorable. It makes sense that Liam
> would see through her.
why the hell recruit her then? This was a situation where another
Pirvirt would do nicely.
> >> > > The Jesuit general protects matters of the faith.
> >are you sure they're not packing?
> Not likely. Very few physically fit men are priests these days, let alone
> someone strong enough to play assassin.
I take it you haven't read those Double Diamond books? Besides, it
doesn't take much to shoot somebody.
> <Nowhere in 2nd Gen does it say that the dwarves would turn against the
> KoS if the elves did>
> >the elves would be scared shitless by such an alliance.
> The elves are not at war with the dwarves, so the alliance would be
> seen as a good thing.
either all three are part or one is isolated and paranoid. The
situation is more like 'no war no peace.'
> >For the dwarven part, surely a lot of hill dwarf communities trade with
> >the Qualinesti (and the hill dwarves would have needed to be involved,
> >they're not aghar and can't be ignored), and also would be scared of
> >losing their backers.
>
> The hill dwarves can be neutral and be friendly to all. After all, the elves
> don't turn their backs on the mountain dwarves because the hill dwarves
> can't stand them.
presumably rapprochement efforts were going there as well... why the
hell did everything from 2nd Gen on ignore Chronicles and Legends? And
basically the hill dwarves would be somewhat paranoid about losing the
support of their trading partners.
> >Similarly, who wants to be a target for the elves? Much
> >better to have them on-side.
> Yes, which is why no one's going to dredge up bad feelings over a
> Solamnic document that is not hindering trade in the least.
again, to thinking elves it'd be a real issue. Why do you think Rashas
and Konnal were able to take over? I'd say breach of faith by Gunthar.
> >> > > >they closed Valhalla?
> >> > > It's undergoing renovations.
> >> > to which end?
> >> Adding techno music and a disco next to the Wagner Opera house.
> >
> >excuse me while I get my Theurge to dedicate a few thousand rounds of
> >ammo. I feel I may need some serious firepower up there.
> You'll be blinded by the strobe lights, promptly disarmed and condemned
> to spend eternity listening to the audio book for Uncle Trapspringer.
I don't intend to remove my finger from the trigger. And I'd rip out
the tape and use it to hang myself first.
> >> <Just blame Dalamar.>
> >> > you want to piss *him* off? Not even Vee could save you.
> >> Dalamar's rather grateful for the use of the tub.
> >
> >he can get a tub anywhere
>
> One that much fun? Doubt it.
what happened to being a madonna?
> <MAD Magazine has a how to "Kill Pokemon" contest>
> "Bankroll a medical study that proves Pokemon leads unsuspecting
> children to worship the devil." I'm sure Sega would pay up.
remind those idiots that it's made by the same company as D&D. And,
even worse, a Pokemon RPG is in the making.
Is the Men in Black RPG still around?
> >> > > >> >> >> >> <You're an open book, Koalataur>
> ><me pulling a FBI-black panther move?>
> >> Well, you do have the rhetoric down pat ....
> >
> >should see me when intoxicated
>
> That should be worth watching.
I'm good at self-medicating. I don't actually need chemicals.
> >> > power is more important than size
> >> Definitely agree with that statement. In most instances, size doesn't
> >matter.
> >
> >*most*???????????
>
> ;-)
<rack>
> >> > > >> <Sean and Sword go after Guen>
> >> > > It's Salvatore's characters. Magic rules.
> >and he's writing Star Wars novels as well. Official continuity. I'd
> >like to see how Dri$$t deals with a combat shotgun.
>
> "Darth Maul vs the Drow" has already been done at Dragon Con. Salvatore
> was actually here yesterday signing his book. Seems like a nice enough
> guy, although I just listened a bit on my way home from work.
but they're all 'nice enough.' That's the problem.
> >> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
> >> > big underwater dome with access tunnels
> >>
> >> These are reindeer, not worms. They won't like mud anymore than water.
> >
> >this can be hermetic
>
> Tubes big enough for reindeer to fly through dryly is not covert anymore.
so he's got himself an aircraft carrier sub
> <Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
> <Nose picking counts as important only in an emergency.>
>
> >sometimes it's just an emergency. But I meant more significant acts.
>
> That kind of stuff should only be done in the privacy of your own room, dear.
significant, not vital for comfort and sanity.
> >> <Pizza with Aussie cheese>
> <No, I haven't looked up Aussie cheese yet>
> <Rohan's cutting Haiku>
> >that's what I send to Simon's girlfriends over his signature
>
> If he's got more than one, then Simon's girls aren't buying it. Go Simon.
<spewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww>
> >> > you been reading the Sith Academy fanfics?
> >>
> >> No. Rarely read fanfics these days. Too busy,.
> >
> >if you can cope with a gay Obi-Wan, Maul training his own 'practice
> >apprentice' (a psychotic cat strong in the Dark Side), and a drinking
> >game that encourages two shots when you read "oh shit. He'd slept with
> >Obi-Wan Kenobi again" then have a look some time.
>
> They've got it confused. Sir Alec is gay, not Obi-Wan. And I could see
> Qui-Gonn more as the cat man, since he picks up strays.
official canon is that 'Obi-Wan likes boys. He doesn't like girls,
period.' Generally we've got Maul learning his stuff, like having a
driving lesson, getting a video, mowing a gargantuan lawn...
> >> Be all that you can be in the army. US recruiting slogan.
> >the yanks also came up with Manifest Destiny and a convenient mental
> >blockage where the side-effects of 'going for the prize' on others are
> >forgotten.
> The world is a cruel and unfair place sometimes. The US gets a bad
> rap because its been successful more often than not so far.
Significantly location. And the bad rap is because of the means of
success, usually unfairly giving somebody else the shaft.
> >> > > Full-time employment is not so bad after the first year, when you
> >> > > get used to not having summers off.
> >
> >still get weekends tho? Days off every now 'n again?
>
> Weekends and holidays, plus flex time in the summer. And my boss
> actually lets us work from home on occasion, especially if we do
> overtime a lot.
wanna post those blackmail photos?
> >hmm. I *may* have kinda solved the problem. Last week I got to run
> >something, with three blokes from the Werewolf game. We went nearly
> >twelve hours (I impressed them with my stamina), and a somewhat shorter
> >sequel is planned for the 30th.
> Congratulations. A full day at it does take a lot of stamina.
last night I ate a total of some nachos, two bits of pizza and some
pringles because we were constantly playing for about 8 hours. But
after I'd been DMing for a few hours my mind started to warp and I got
pretty exhausted, mainly because I was going on the fly.
> >Apart from them being psychotic little munchkins
> Your kind of guys ;-) Good thing they're into the roleplaying aspect.
I'm not that bad. Came as a shock, as I was used to them as roleplayers
> <Details on one guy who couldn't buy a favorable dice roll>
> Every group needs an RPG Dilbert.
he's consistently played stupid characters. It's bizarre.
> >Pop Quiz: if you saw a dozen dorphed-out blokes in black trenchcoats
> >entering a supermarket, would you walk up and switch off their boombox?
> Not really. The music's probably great to dance to.
they weren't exactly listening to Britney Spears. And touching the
sacred box led to 'grenade in aisle four.' All three of them ended up
nearly dead, and one pinched a murder weapon and sold it because it was
a nice gun. Naturally he got caught on camera.
> >> A smart nation always protects the sovereignty of its borders.
> >
> >the hypocrisy of having a similar base in Turkey...
> The Turks benefit from having US bully boys this close to home in case
> the Cyprus thing heats up.
nothing like a good rationalisation.
> >> > > >> >> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
> >> Same thing. They postured, but not one trade agreement was broken.
> >
> >great way to jeopardise relations
>
> The US knew that the British are smart enough to pick their battles, and
> this particular squabble would not be worth fighting over.
the potential for greater political issues...
> >> Well, Simon's birthday is just around the corner .....
> >
> <Simon's got his birthday gift, Rohan's taking the scenic route to the
> Werewolf game>
>
> Good Luck. Is it okay to wish Simon a Happy Birthday now?
seeing as I'm actually reading this on the 24th, ok. I actually did a
few smart things. "It'll take you two Rage points to crawl up and stab
him." "Why don't I just throw the dagger?" I finished him off with a
head shot, without exposing myself to what I thought was a shooter.
Additionally, I arranged things so the generators would explode on OUR
terms, and figured out that in a situation where the lift is shorted
out, the doors are jammed open, a hundred creepy-crawlies are swarming
inside and a possessed pack member just opened up with an Uzi, it's a
good idea to run for the stairs. I ended up standing on the bannister.
And then of course we had to run up about seventeen flights of stairs to
get the hell out of the building about to explode. I won the race. And
it turns out this Population 20k town in Alaska has: a werewolf caern, a
ratkin deceit, a gang of vampires, a mage chantry and for no apparent
reason a Pentex (Men in Black) compound. I thought it was weird enough
when a really rich man lived out here. We're getting so many NPCs I did
the world a favour by murdering one of my old customers.
Oh well, fifteen minutes before I can have lunch, which also encompasses
breakfast because I got up at ten thirty.
Rohan "The Hatchet" Tolstrup
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<It'd be better to get rid of Percival than Galahad in an rpg session>
>cool. He was actually the chivalrous Ubermensch type without descending
>into the traditional boredom that makes me yearn for a flaw.
>
<WoS shouldn't jump too far ahead because Caramon deserves a death
scene and "it was all a dream" is too cheesy">
>
>around his neck. Okay. Maybe we should send a Terminator to take out
>the meeting where they decided on 5A's ridiculous direction.
>
>> >> <Altie's mom was offered 50 camels for her in Egypt>
>
>I can give you fifty *Australian* camels - much better than that
>Egyptian krep.
Mom doesn't smoke, and the camels in question were the furry four-
legged types.
>
<Alti can only pass for an Egyptian from a distance.>
>
><note>
>I understood the 'desert walk' was completely different.
It's all in the skirt, which is rather long and roomy.
>
<Mortals aren't ready yet to overthrow the Krynnish pantheon>
>
>tell that to Morten. But the We Are The World factor could be use to
>deal with invading gods.
Malys bullying the dragon overlords together, perhaps. But the mortal
races are too fragmented and unschooled in 5th Age magic to make a go
of it alone. After all, the gods should still be able to practice High
Sorcery.
>
<Who's Alti voting for in the next election?>
None of the candidates appeal to me. I'll wait until the debates to
make a decision.
>
>every jurisdiction needs a police force, and mine wear Sam Browns and
>jackboots when they're not in riot gear. I picked 'em up for a song
>when the Russians stopped paying their Special Purpose units.
That means they're extremely open to graft and corruption. Convenient.
>
<Ariakas would hide the existence of a double from his officers>
>it'd certainly work out. And most dragon riders wouldn't know where he
>himself was at any given time.
Didn't Ariakas have a dragon? And wouldn't people wonder if Ariakas II
always went about on horseback or someone else's dragon?
>
>> >> <What can give Altie nightmares?>
<Dalamar, gay? That would be a depressing thought.>
>
>you've been watching Threesome, haven't you?
Never heard of it and probably glad I haven't.
>
>> You see, you're lightening up already.
>
>right
Glad you agree.
>
<Rohan's posterity will read these posts>
>
>NOBODY reads these posts
It comes and goes but judging by the emails, we do get drop-ins on
occasion.
>
>> <Flower Delivery>
>my personalised roses can only be delivered personally or through my
>service. Put on something white and look out the window.
>
<The Swiss guards have *what* hidden in their pantaloons?>
>>
>> Wow. Madonna ethics get in the way of this one.
>
>I was actually thinking of a breakaway or spring-launcher down one leg.
The pantaloons are too short for that -- they wear hosery down the legs..
>
>> <America being empire-building>
<Mike Tyson politics>
>
>"I'll bite his ear off." Did Reagan have a Plan B when he bombed Libya?
Didn't need one. He'd gotten buy-in beforehand, even though some of the
allies played the innocents later.
>
>> Leo as Dalamar? No way, Dalamar is tall. I can maybe accept Brad Pitt.
>
>pass the ammunition
Only if it's for Leo. Anything to stop him from playing Anakin.
>> >pies, veggies... are you politically correct or something?
>>
>> Somewhat. Veggies can't fight back against injustice.
>
>and yet you've bought into the 'American Dream' whereby nobody really
>deserves welfare and Socialism's Bad Ummkay...
I'm not a fan of socialism because it's not viable economically. And I
believe welfare is grossly abused. Some elements that are termed
American poor would be labled lower middle class in some countries.
>
<Altie's going to Italy>
>I can arrange a guided tour of Sicily
Thanks, but we'll be in Rome, with the Vatican kender patrol.
>
>> >> <Are MIS managers sivaks?>
>> I'm more worried about the auraks my boss has made enemies of.
>
>buy a gun. Keep it loaded and handy. Get the bullets blessed if
>reasonably possible.
Blessed bullets? They're dracs, not undead.
>
>Pensacola: Wings of Gold. Did I miss anything by not watching?
Not at all. Brolin's best days are behind him.
>
>Porthios' collapse was probably largely due to Gunthar's own failure to
>deliver. There's strong evidence that these were interlinked.
Such as?
>
>pretty obvious that Raistlin wanted to #$%^ Rosamun inside his own arse,
>isn't it?
Uh, no. Just how much did you drink at Simon's party?
>
>> <Tom Cruise fills out a hell of a set of briefs.>
>> >too Dilbert
>>
>> Very Cosmo.
>
>Get. Out. Of. My. Head. To paraphrase Ikari Shinji "I'm a man."
So's Tom Cruise. And what a man he is. And with all this extra room
in your head, I think it's a great place to set up my doll collection.
>
>> >> > > <Linsha's a Frankenstein Majeres?
<Linsha can't handle playacting>
>
>why the hell recruit her then? This was a situation where another
>Pirvirt would do nicely.
Pirvirt would be a perfect Legionnaire. The KoS was probably counting
on Linsha being able to stay detached from her environment.
>
<Jesuits are bookworms, not gunfighters>
>
>I take it you haven't read those Double Diamond books? Besides, it
>doesn't take much to shoot somebody.
Haven't read them. But the Jesuits hold the true secrets of the Church --
you don't risk that kind of knowledge for a job any lay person could do.
>
<Elves would welcome a KoS/Dwarven alliance>
>
>either all three are part or one is isolated and paranoid. The
>situation is more like 'no war no peace.'
Mountain dwarves are paranoid by definition. The elves have left the
world on its own for centuries. There's no reason for either of them to
change the status quo or to haggle over a KoS alliance.
>
<Hill dwarves would be more neutral than angry about an alliance>
>
>presumably rapprochement efforts were going there as well... why the
>hell did everything from 2nd Gen on ignore Chronicles and Legends? And
>basically the hill dwarves would be somewhat paranoid about losing the
>support of their trading partners.
Unfortunately, the big assumption here is that the KoS are doing
something shockingly dangerous, like siding with Malys. The Measure is
a small potatoes thing that the elves are not going to jeopardize lucrative
trading for. They certainly were ready to give Qualinesti to the KoT to
protect economic commerce.
>again, to thinking elves it'd be a real issue. Why do you think Rashas
>and Konnal were able to take over? I'd say breach of faith by Gunthar.
I'd say Rashas and Konnal had it easy because no one wanted to see
a united elven nation. Gunthar never even comes up in the equation. And
it's no breach of faith by Gunthar -- it's not even his business what the
elven government does within its borders.
<Rohan's eternal damnation is to listen to the Uncle Trapspringer Audio>
>
>I don't intend to remove my finger from the trigger. And I'd rip out
>the tape and use it to hang myself first.
You're assuming that they'd let you have access to the tape. And the
book's being read by Fran Drescher.
>
>> >> <Just blame Dalamar.>
>> >> > you want to piss *him* off? Not even Vee could save you.
>> >> Dalamar's rather grateful for the use of the tub.
>> >
>> >he can get a tub anywhere
>>
>> One that much fun? Doubt it.
>
>what happened to being a madonna?
Since when is having a bathroom stocked with bath toys a violation
of the Madonna code?
>
<Rohan drunk should be quite a sight indeed>
>
>I'm good at self-medicating. I don't actually need chemicals.
That explains a lot.
>
>> >> > power is more important than size
>> >> Definitely agree with that statement. In most instances, size doesn't
>> >matter.
>> >
>> >*most*???????????
>>
>> ;-)
>
><rack>
Aren't you the sweetest little snuggle bunny.
>> >> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
>> >> > big underwater dome with access tunnels
>> >>
>> >> These are reindeer, not worms. They won't like mud anymore than water.
>> >
>> >this can be hermetic
>>
>> Tubes big enough for reindeer to fly through dryly is not covert anymore.
>
>so he's got himself an aircraft carrier sub
Comes up on radar. So much for keeping the base hidden.
>
>> <Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
>> That kind of stuff should only be done in the privacy of your own room,
>dear.
>
>significant, not vital for comfort and sanity.
You can always be fed intravenously.
>
>> <Rohan's cutting Haiku>
>> >that's what I send to Simon's girlfriends over his signature
>>
>> If he's got more than one, then Simon's girls aren't buying it. Go Simon.
>
><spewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww>
Your admiration for your brother knows no bounds, I see.
<Fan-fics have Obi Wan as gay>
Not my cup of tea then. Not because it has a gay character, but
because I don't buy Obi as a gay man.
<American aggressively protects its interests>
>
>Significantly location. And the bad rap is because of the means of
>success, usually unfairly giving somebody else the shaft.
I don't particularly care for stepping on the underdog, but shafting is the
way of politics. Not an arena for nice or fair people.
>
<My boss lets me work from home on occasion>
>
>wanna post those blackmail photos?
Don't have any. It's more like she lets us work from home because it makes
it easier for her to do the same thing. Plus she's good about rewards.
>
<12 hours of roleplaying takes a lot of stamina>
>
>last night I ate a total of some nachos, two bits of pizza and some
>pringles because we were constantly playing for about 8 hours. But
>after I'd been DMing for a few hours my mind started to warp and I got
>pretty exhausted, mainly because I was going on the fly.
But it's amazing how creative one gets during an adrenaline rush. It's
bad to pause in the middle of a game because it's when you stop that you
realize that you're tired
>> <Details on one guy who couldn't buy a favorable dice roll>
>> Every group needs an RPG Dilbert.
>
>he's consistently played stupid characters. It's bizarre.
Then he's a good rpg'er, dealing with crappy dice rolls correctly.
>> >> A smart nation always protects the sovereignty of its borders.
>> >
>> >the hypocrisy of having a similar base in Turkey...
>> The Turks benefit from having US bully boys this close to home in case
>> the Cyprus thing heats up.
>
>nothing like a good rationalisation.
The Turks manage their way, and the Americans their own way and both
are happy with the results.
>
>> >> > > >> >> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
>> >> Same thing. They postured, but not one trade agreement was broken.
>> >
>> >great way to jeopardise relations
>>
>> The US knew that the British are smart enough to pick their battles, and
>> this particular squabble would not be worth fighting over.
>
>the potential for greater political issues...
Good politicians know when they're running low on spell points. They
lay low after pulling a major debacle and recouperate.
>
>> >> Well, Simon's birthday is just around the corner .....
>> >
>> <Simon's got his birthday gift, Rohan's taking the scenic route to the
>> Werewolf game>
<The Werewolf game was suitably bloody and entertaining>
Lots of gore and violence. You must have been in lycanthrope heaven.
>Oh well, fifteen minutes before I can have lunch, which also encompasses
>breakfast because I got up at ten thirty.
That's early for a Sunday. I'm never up before 11.
Tolstrup
> >I can give you fifty *Australian* camels - much better than that
> >Egyptian krep.
>
> Mom doesn't smoke, and the camels in question were the furry four-
> legged types.
I'm fully aware of that. And you get two humps.
> <Alti can only pass for an Egyptian from a distance.>
> ><note>
> >I understood the 'desert walk' was completely different.
>
> It's all in the skirt, which is rather long and roomy.
heh heh heh
> <Mortals aren't ready yet to overthrow the Krynnish pantheon>
> >tell that to Morten. But the We Are The World factor could be use to
> >deal with invading gods.
> Malys bullying the dragon overlords together, perhaps. But the mortal
> races are too fragmented and unschooled in 5th Age magic to make a go
> of it alone. After all, the gods should still be able to practice High
> Sorcery.
alone I don't think anything can take on the gods. That's why I've been
going for faith empowerment of mortal heroes and divine parliaments.
> <Who's Alti voting for in the next election?>
> None of the candidates appeal to me. I'll wait until the debates to
> make a decision.
pull an Executive Orders on 'em and clear the field for new candidates
> >every jurisdiction needs a police force, and mine wear Sam Browns and
> >jackboots when they're not in riot gear. I picked 'em up for a song
> >when the Russians stopped paying their Special Purpose units.
> That means they're extremely open to graft and corruption. Convenient.
oh, once they started producing I was able to pay them quite well. I
just needed 'em cheap so I could take over a small country.
> <Ariakas would hide the existence of a double from his officers>
> >it'd certainly work out. And most dragon riders wouldn't know where he
> >himself was at any given time.
>
> Didn't Ariakas have a dragon? And wouldn't people wonder if Ariakas II
> always went about on horseback or someone else's dragon?
it'd be the Saddam Factor.
> >> >> <What can give Altie nightmares?>
> <Dalamar, gay? That would be a depressing thought.>
> >you've been watching Threesome, haven't you?
> Never heard of it and probably glad I haven't.
it was decent. The relationship between three roommates in unrequited
love with each other. Apart from being a college film and starring
relative unknowns, it was quite the mainstream comedy.
> >> You see, you're lightening up already.
> >right
> Glad you agree.
pity you can't convey tone through a keyboard
> <Rohan's posterity will read these posts>
> >NOBODY reads these posts
>
> It comes and goes but judging by the emails, we do get drop-ins on
> occasion.
you're all disgusting perverts
> <The Swiss guards have *what* hidden in their pantaloons?>
> >> Wow. Madonna ethics get in the way of this one.
> >I was actually thinking of a breakaway or spring-launcher down one leg.
>
> The pantaloons are too short for that -- they wear hosery down the legs..
possibly a velcro flap which can be undone for access to whatever's
holstered on the thigh. It doesn't have to be dirty.
> >> <America being empire-building>
> <Mike Tyson politics>
> >"I'll bite his ear off." Did Reagan have a Plan B when he bombed Libya?
> Didn't need one. He'd gotten buy-in beforehand, even though some of the
> allies played the innocents later.
does anybody have a Plan B?
> >> Leo as Dalamar? No way, Dalamar is tall. I can maybe accept Brad Pitt.
> >pass the ammunition
> Only if it's for Leo. Anything to stop him from playing Anakin.
okay, I'll only shoot at Leo. This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
> >> >pies, veggies... are you politically correct or something?
> >>
> >> Somewhat. Veggies can't fight back against injustice.
> >
> >and yet you've bought into the 'American Dream' whereby nobody really
> >deserves welfare and Socialism's Bad Ummkay...
>
> I'm not a fan of socialism because it's not viable economically. And I
> believe welfare is grossly abused. Some elements that are termed
> American poor would be labled lower middle class in some countries.
I can't *wait* till I get to write some essays on US politics. The
hypocrisy of a 'meritocracy' where money is needed for political access
let alone true power...
> <Altie's going to Italy>
> >I can arrange a guided tour of Sicily
> Thanks, but we'll be in Rome, with the Vatican kender patrol.
you'll get off the plane, and next thing you know you'll be in Sicily.
> >> >> <Are MIS managers sivaks?>
> >> I'm more worried about the auraks my boss has made enemies of.
> >buy a gun. Keep it loaded and handy. Get the bullets blessed if
> >reasonably possible.
> Blessed bullets? They're dracs, not undead.
can never be too sure. And Raistlin was last seen coming your way.
> >Pensacola: Wings of Gold. Did I miss anything by not watching?
> Not at all. Brolin's best days are behind him.
never heard of him till then. What has he actually done?
> >Porthios' collapse was probably largely due to Gunthar's own failure to
> >deliver. There's strong evidence that these were interlinked.
> Such as?
okay, maybe circumstantial. But I'd say it's a good bet that Porthios
had put too much political capital into Gunthar holding up his end of
the bargain.
> >pretty obvious that Raistlin wanted to #$%^ Rosamun inside his own arse,
> >isn't it?
> Uh, no. Just how much did you drink at Simon's party?
I wasn't there.
> >> <Tom Cruise fills out a hell of a set of briefs.>
> >> >too Dilbert
> >>
> >> Very Cosmo.
> >
> >Get. Out. Of. My. Head. To paraphrase Ikari Shinji "I'm a man."
>
> So's Tom Cruise. And what a man he is. And with all this extra room
> in your head, I think it's a great place to set up my doll collection.
dolls now? I think the angst pits just flared up.
> >> >> > > <Linsha's a Frankenstein Majeres?
> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
> >why the hell recruit her then? This was a situation where another
> >Pirvirt would do nicely.
> Pirvirt would be a perfect Legionnaire. The KoS was probably counting
> on Linsha being able to stay detached from her environment.
ever heard of psychological screening? I can't believe her stupidity -
totally failing to maintain cover (I would have mugged a few bad guys),
demonstrating an extremely high standard of swordsmanship, and being
unable to convince an elf she was racist?
> <Jesuits are bookworms, not gunfighters>
> >I take it you haven't read those Double Diamond books? Besides, it
> >doesn't take much to shoot somebody.
>
> Haven't read them. But the Jesuits hold the true secrets of the Church --
> you don't risk that kind of knowledge for a job any lay person could do.
hmm. Probably the assassins are hidden in the Jesuits somewhere.
Reference was to Artemis Entreri disguised as a short fat guy.
> <Elves would welcome a KoS/Dwarven alliance>
> >either all three are part or one is isolated and paranoid. The
> >situation is more like 'no war no peace.'
>
> Mountain dwarves are paranoid by definition. The elves have left the
> world on its own for centuries. There's no reason for either of them to
> change the status quo or to haggle over a KoS alliance.
well, Hornfel's in a similar position to Porthios...
> <Hill dwarves would be more neutral than angry about an alliance>
> >presumably rapprochement efforts were going there as well... why the
> >hell did everything from 2nd Gen on ignore Chronicles and Legends? And
> >basically the hill dwarves would be somewhat paranoid about losing the
> >support of their trading partners.
> Unfortunately, the big assumption here is that the KoS are doing
> something shockingly dangerous, like siding with Malys. The Measure is
> a small potatoes thing that the elves are not going to jeopardize lucrative
> trading for. They certainly were ready to give Qualinesti to the KoT to
> protect economic commerce.
no choice. But willingness to fix the Measure is obviously indicative
of what kind of allies they are. Remember how the yanks wanted to stay
the hell out of the world until they realised they were a superpower?
> >again, to thinking elves it'd be a real issue. Why do you think Rashas
> >and Konnal were able to take over? I'd say breach of faith by Gunthar.
>
> I'd say Rashas and Konnal had it easy because no one wanted to see
> a united elven nation. Gunthar never even comes up in the equation. And
> it's no breach of faith by Gunthar -- it's not even his business what the
> elven government does within its borders.
he failed to deliver, and Porthios went down as a traitor selling his
people out to the human bastards.
> <Rohan's eternal damnation is to listen to the Uncle Trapspringer Audio>
> >I don't intend to remove my finger from the trigger. And I'd rip out
> >the tape and use it to hang myself first.
>
> You're assuming that they'd let you have access to the tape. And the
> book's being read by Fran Drescher.
if nothing else I'd deafen myself with the gun. Even a .22's quite loud
> >> >> <Just blame Dalamar.>
> >> >> > you want to piss *him* off? Not even Vee could save you.
> >> >> Dalamar's rather grateful for the use of the tub.
> >> >
> >> >he can get a tub anywhere
> >>
> >> One that much fun? Doubt it.
> >
> >what happened to being a madonna?
>
> Since when is having a bathroom stocked with bath toys a violation
> of the Madonna code?
he can get bath toys anywhere. He can conjure 'em up.
> <Rohan drunk should be quite a sight indeed>
> >I'm good at self-medicating. I don't actually need chemicals.
> That explains a lot.
confused the shit out of people at school.
> >> >> > power is more important than size
> >> >> Definitely agree with that statement. In most instances, size doesn't
> >> >matter.
> >> >
> >> >*most*???????????
> >>
> >> ;-)
> >
> ><rack>
>
> Aren't you the sweetest little snuggle bunny.
allow me to demonstrate.
> >> >> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
> >> Tubes big enough for reindeer to fly through dryly is not covert anymore.
> >
> >so he's got himself an aircraft carrier sub
>
> Comes up on radar. So much for keeping the base hidden.
*Submarine.* Hasn't been done yet, but no reason why not, although
we're obviously not talking about the USS Enterprise (which Aussies sunk
with tanks during a wargames exercise).
> >> <Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
> >> That kind of stuff should only be done in the privacy of your own room,
> >dear.
> >significant, not vital for comfort and sanity.
> You can always be fed intravenously.
I still need my hands to do important stuff
> >> <Rohan's cutting Haiku>
> >> >that's what I send to Simon's girlfriends over his signature
> >>
> >> If he's got more than one, then Simon's girls aren't buying it. Go Simon.
> >
> ><spewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww>
>
> Your admiration for your brother knows no bounds, I see.
<retch>
> <Fan-fics have Obi Wan as gay>
> Not my cup of tea then. Not because it has a gay character, but
> because I don't buy Obi as a gay man.
you never know. I think the female site maintainer just wanted a bad
running joke.
> <American aggressively protects its interests>
> >Significantly location. And the bad rap is because of the means of
> >success, usually unfairly giving somebody else the shaft.
>
> I don't particularly care for stepping on the underdog, but shafting is the
> way of politics. Not an arena for nice or fair people.
Democracy. Rule by the people. Social contracts. Revolution time.
> <My boss lets me work from home on occasion>
> >wanna post those blackmail photos?
> Don't have any. It's more like she lets us work from home because it makes
> it easier for her to do the same thing. Plus she's good about rewards.
how much are your illegal earnings?
> <12 hours of roleplaying takes a lot of stamina>
> >last night I ate a total of some nachos, two bits of pizza and some
> >pringles because we were constantly playing for about 8 hours. But
> >after I'd been DMing for a few hours my mind started to warp and I got
> >pretty exhausted, mainly because I was going on the fly.
>
> But it's amazing how creative one gets during an adrenaline rush. It's
> bad to pause in the middle of a game because it's when you stop that you
> realize that you're tired
the nearest shops were 7km away. Wasn't especially inspired, although I
got to kill some people. And freeze my arse off when the DM decided to
solo-run with one player - so kicked out the other three of us.
> >> <Details on one guy who couldn't buy a favorable dice roll>
> >> Every group needs an RPG Dilbert.
> >he's consistently played stupid characters. It's bizarre.
>
> Then he's a good rpg'er, dealing with crappy dice rolls correctly.
er, no. He breaks character, and is often disruptive, actually ruining
one session by loudly talking over attempts to play. He also has a
habit of picking up and shaking 'Danger! Do not touch!' boxes and
destroying anything he doesn't understand. Once I was playing a cop and
he (in a particularly obnoxious mood) burgled a boat and killed the
occupant. That it was a zombie may have been a mitigating factor.
> >> >> A smart nation always protects the sovereignty of its borders.
> >> >the hypocrisy of having a similar base in Turkey...
> >> The Turks benefit from having US bully boys this close to home in case
> >> the Cyprus thing heats up.
> >
> >nothing like a good rationalisation.
>
> The Turks manage their way, and the Americans their own way and both
> are happy with the results.
razzerfrazzenbastards
> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> <Reagan stumped the Senate when he fired on Libya>
> >> >great way to jeopardise relations
> >>
> >> The US knew that the British are smart enough to pick their battles, and
> >> this particular squabble would not be worth fighting over.
> >
> >the potential for greater political issues...
>
> Good politicians know when they're running low on spell points. They
> lay low after pulling a major debacle and recouperate.
what a great system of government
> <The Werewolf game was suitably bloody and entertaining>
> Lots of gore and violence. You must have been in lycanthrope heaven.
I'm *still* trying to figure out which side I'm on in the current brawl.
But I sat out the main encounter because of a flood of critters.
Our august idiot/former leader did something stupid and is likely to
lose a shitload of Renown. I can't wait for the ritual humiliation.
It's Mr Noballs.
> >Oh well, fifteen minutes before I can have lunch, which also encompasses
> >breakfast because I got up at ten thirty.
>
> That's early for a Sunday. I'm never up before 11.
I don't have a job. Also, I actually had an rpg today but decided not
to go, supposedly so I could study. Got about 250 words down all day,
read the same cyberpunk supplements several times.
Rohan "destructo" Tolstrup
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Rohan wants to haggle with my Mom over camels>
I'm afraid she lost the haggle rights when I turned 18. And cats are
bad enough to handle without tossing in camels.
>
>I'm fully aware of that. And you get two humps.
At least I wouldn't be worn out.
>
>> <Mortals aren't ready yet to overthrow the Krynnish pantheon>
>alone I don't think anything can take on the gods. That's why I've been
>going for faith empowerment of mortal heroes and divine parliaments.
Sounds like the Dragon Overlords on 2 legs. Not that the idea isn't
original, but the communal mind concept is too borgish.
>
<Rohan's post communism police force is open to graft>
>oh, once they started producing I was able to pay them quite well. I
>just needed 'em cheap so I could take over a small country.
Old habits die hard for mercenaries. And since when is Camberwell a
small country?
>
>> <Ariakas would hide the existence of a double from his officers>
>> Didn't Ariakas have a dragon? And wouldn't people wonder if Ariakas II
>> always went about on horseback or someone else's dragon?
>
>it'd be the Saddam Factor.
Saddam's double obviously doesn't pass for him on close inspection
and he serves only as a human decoy that people see from a
distance. Having an Ariakas double might put the idea of creating a
puppet regime in the head of an enterprising officer.
>
<Explanation of the Threesome film>
Sounds familiar to a Stephen Baldwin picture released about a year
ago. His male best friend was in love with Stephen, and the girl Stephen
was eyeing was in love with the best friend.
<People occasionally drop in on this thread>
>
>you're all disgusting perverts
The thread *is* on a public newsgroup, dear.
>
>> <The Swiss guards have *what* hidden in their pantaloons?>
>possibly a velcro flap which can be undone for access to whatever's
>holstered on the thigh. It doesn't have to be dirty.
<vision of possessed kender guard flashing the nuns' choir>
That would require some quick handwork to go against someone with an
unencumbered holster.
>
<Nobody has Plan B -- threats and bargains are the contingency plan>
>
<Rohan's shooting the pretty boys again.>
>okay, I'll only shoot at Leo. This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
Make it Dark Heart and I'll believe you.
>
<Altie's got negative views of socialism and most forms of welfare>
>
>I can't *wait* till I get to write some essays on US politics. The
>hypocrisy of a 'meritocracy' where money is needed for political access
>let alone true power...
Point being, you can start with nothing and become a player within a
generation. Lots of other places it's a lot harder to be a self-made
millionaire and be accepted into the power cliques.
>
>> <Altie's going to Italy>
>you'll get off the plane, and next thing you know you'll be in Sicily.
If you think the Swiss kender are bad, just try to divert a plane that
will most likely be filled with rabid millenial pilgrims. We're flying
in during the Holy Door ceremonies.
>
<Blest bullets are for undead, not draconians>
>
>can never be too sure. And Raistlin was last seen coming your way.
The last thing I'd want to do to Raistlin (particularly the War of the Twins
incarnation) is shoot him.
>
<Just what is James Brolin famous for?>
Buddy action flicks, and one serious effort, Capricorn One. Conspiracy
theorist that you are, the latter is one you might want to catch if nothing
else in on TV. It's a little slow going at times but the premise about the
moon landings being faked is kind of neat.
>
<Any evidence that Porthiios' failure was due to Gunthar is
circumstantial at best>
Look at it this way -- the Measure is late in being updated and Porthios
falls. The Measure is updated on schedule and Porthios still falls,
because the KoS won't invade elven lands while they're fighting KoT.
>
>> >pretty obvious that Raistlin wanted to #$%^ Rosamun inside his own arse,
>> >isn't it?
>> Uh, no. Just how much did you drink at Simon's party?
>
>I wasn't there.
Raistlin's oedipal complex, while strong, wasn't as severe as that.
<Doll Collection>
>dolls now? I think the angst pits just flared up.
I was at a Gene doll convention two weekends ago near Philly. One of your
countrymen sat at my table and gave us the cutest little koala souveniers.
Not all Australians abhore koalas, it seems.
>> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>ever heard of psychological screening? I can't believe her stupidity -
>totally failing to maintain cover (I would have mugged a few bad guys),
>demonstrating an extremely high standard of swordsmanship, and being
>unable to convince an elf she was racist?
You've read the book more recently than I, but wasn't this story meant to
show Linsha at an inexperienced point in her assignment? While I agree
that her issues with roleplaying bugged me, it was in character for heroic
knights like Sturm. I read it as Linsha learning not to be a victim to her
hormones as well as stiff rules, since it was her feelings for the guy that
got her into trouble as much as anything.
>
<There have got to be assassins in the Jesuit order somewhere>
In extremis, the Jesuits would handle the arrangements, but they
wouldn't keep anyone on staff. The Church won't even acknowledge
the existence of the official exorcists, so they won't take a chance on
contract murder.
<The elves and dwarves have no reason to antagonize the KoS>
>well, Hornfel's in a similar position to Porthios...
Which means all parties involved look to help from the KoS, and not
to insulting them by telling the KoS how to run their organization.
>
<By giving in to the KoT, the Qualinesti showed that economic prosperity
matters more than intellectual pursuits like an updated Measure>
>
>no choice. But willingness to fix the Measure is obviously indicative
>of what kind of allies they are. Remember how the yanks wanted to stay
>the hell out of the world until they realised they were a superpower?
The Qualinesti under Solostaran fled rather than surrender to the dragon
highlords. The KoS have the same commodity value to the elves
regardless of the Measure. Unlike America, the elves know that they are
a superpower, but they don't meddle because it's beneath them.
<Rashas and Konnal used elven tribal hatred, not any failure of Gunthar's,
to divide and conquer the elven nations>
>
>he failed to deliver, and Porthios went down as a traitor selling his
>people out to the human bastards.
Rashas portrayed Porthios as a traitor to Qualinesti, and Konnal portrayed
Porthios as a traitor to Silvanesti, because Porthios supported both nations.
Gunthar didn't enter into it, and Rashas betrayed his people to the humans.
>
>> <Rohan's eternal damnation is to listen to the Uncle Trapspringer Audio>
>if nothing else I'd deafen myself with the gun. Even a .22's quite loud
If that happens, ou'd have to watch the Hanna Barbera cartoon version.
>
<Dalamar really likes his tub time>
>> Since when is having a bathroom stocked with bath toys a violation
>> of the Madonna code?
>
>he can get bath toys anywhere. He can conjure 'em up.
He likes to save his energies for other things.
>
<Rohan doesn't need to drink, he gnomishly self medicates>
>confused the shit out of people at school.
And you said you weren't well-known at school.
>> ><rack>
>>
>> Aren't you the sweetest little snuggle bunny.
>
>allow me to demonstrate.
Spike's right over there, on the corner of the bed.
>
>> >> >> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
>*Submarine.* Hasn't been done yet, but no reason why not,
And just how is the sleigh supposed to get out of a sub?
>
>> >> <Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
>I still need my hands to do important stuff
Typing with your nose works. And computers have voice programs now.
>
<Simon's quite the ladies' man>
>> Your admiration for your brother knows no bounds, I see.
>
><retch>
He'll never take you on double dates if you keep that up.
>
>> <American aggressively protects its interests>
>Democracy. Rule by the people. Social contracts. Revolution time.
The American people are by and large happy with the nation and its
standing in the world. If it aint broke ...
>
<Altie's job has a lot of perks>
>how much are your illegal earnings?
The travel and the ability to work from home are the biggest perks.
Bonuses are legal and captured on my tax invoice.
>
>> <12 hours of roleplaying takes a lot of stamina>
>
>the nearest shops were 7km away. Wasn't especially inspired, although I
>got to kill some people. And freeze my arse off when the DM decided to
>solo-run with one player - so kicked out the other three of us.
Cold air woke you up then ;-) You need to pack a goody bag then if
you're going to be playing in the boonies often.
>
>> >> <Details on one guy who couldn't buy a favorable dice roll>
>> >> Every group needs an RPG Dilbert.
<But this guy's a bad role-player and obnoxious to boot.>
When he gets really irritating, the DM should just fake a couple of
encounter throws and either kill the character or make it a point that the
character will be killed if the interruptions continue. Best way to
handle the hackers who won't play the game right.
>
>> Good politicians know when they're running low on spell points. They
>> lay low after pulling a major debacle and recouperate.
>
>what a great system of government
The difference between us is that I'm slightly more jaded on how politics
work than you are. There's quite a bit of the revolutionary optimist in you.
>
>> <The Werewolf game was suitably bloody and entertaining>
>> Lots of gore and violence. You must have been in lycanthrope heaven.
><Rohan's *rooting* for the leader of his pack>
Lots of emasculation here. Whatever happened to losing ears and fingers?
>
<Rohan picked Cyberpunk overstudying>
Naughty boy.
Tolstrup
> I'm afraid she lost the haggle rights when I turned 18. And cats are
> bad enough to handle without tossing in camels.
so you're allowed to buy a wife from the parent, provided she's
underage? Around here, a 16-17yo can only marry if the other is at
least 18 and under extreme circumstances. Not even a bun in the oven
suffices. Of course, the point is for marriages that last.
> >I'm fully aware of that. And you get two humps.
>
> At least I wouldn't be worn out.
<slap>
two humps per camel.
> >> <Mortals aren't ready yet to overthrow the Krynnish pantheon>
> >alone I don't think anything can take on the gods. That's why I've been
> >going for faith empowerment of mortal heroes and divine parliaments.
> Sounds like the Dragon Overlords on 2 legs. Not that the idea isn't
> original, but the communal mind concept is too borgish.
I actually had the idea of mortals being empowered directly by the
people instead of just killing another god and being given the job. In
the case of the parliament, that's actually what it was: a council of
minds who make decisions like any other elected body. I figured it'd be
better subconsciously as well.
> <Rohan's post communism police force is open to graft>
> >oh, once they started producing I was able to pay them quite well. I
> >just needed 'em cheap so I could take over a small country.
> Old habits die hard for mercenaries. And since when is Camberwell a
> small country?
remember, my house is the embassy. Actually I own several small
countries
> >> <Ariakas would hide the existence of a double from his officers>
> >> Didn't Ariakas have a dragon? And wouldn't people wonder if Ariakas II
> >> always went about on horseback or someone else's dragon?
> >it'd be the Saddam Factor.
>
> Saddam's double obviously doesn't pass for him on close inspection
> and he serves only as a human decoy that people see from a
> distance. Having an Ariakas double might put the idea of creating a
> puppet regime in the head of an enterprising officer.
Takhy might object to such cowardice
> <Explanation of the Threesome film>
> Sounds familiar to a Stephen Baldwin picture released about a year
> ago. His male best friend was in love with Stephen, and the girl Stephen
> was eyeing was in love with the best friend.
that's it
> <People occasionally drop in on this thread>
> >you're all disgusting perverts
>
> The thread *is* on a public newsgroup, dear.
you don't hang around nude beaches much, do you?
> >> <The Swiss guards have *what* hidden in their pantaloons?>
> >possibly a velcro flap which can be undone for access to whatever's
> >holstered on the thigh. It doesn't have to be dirty.
> <vision of possessed kender guard flashing the nuns' choir>
>
> That would require some quick handwork to go against someone with an
> unencumbered holster.
if you're flashing nuns then the rules go out the window
> <Nobody has Plan B -- threats and bargains are the contingency plan>
> <Rohan's shooting the pretty boys again.>
> >okay, I'll only shoot at Leo. This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
> Make it Dark Heart and I'll believe you.
how about Last Tower: Legacy of Raistlin?
> <Altie's got negative views of socialism and most forms of welfare>
> >I can't *wait* till I get to write some essays on US politics. The
> >hypocrisy of a 'meritocracy' where money is needed for political access
> >let alone true power...
>
> Point being, you can start with nothing and become a player within a
> generation. Lots of other places it's a lot harder to be a self-made
> millionaire and be accepted into the power cliques.
isn't the US Senate similar to the House of Lords? And the idea of
balance being insured by politicians being forced to take bribes from
multiple people...
> >> <Altie's going to Italy>
> >you'll get off the plane, and next thing you know you'll be in Sicily.
>
> If you think the Swiss kender are bad, just try to divert a plane that
> will most likely be filled with rabid millenial pilgrims. We're flying
> in during the Holy Door ceremonies.
you willingly booked onto a plane which will be filled with rabid
millenial pilgrims? I'm assuming you did the booking, considering your
mother must be at least seventy by now. And you'll be met at the
airport
> <Blest bullets are for undead, not draconians>
> >can never be too sure. And Raistlin was last seen coming your way.
> The last thing I'd want to do to Raistlin (particularly the War of the Twins
> incarnation) is shoot him.
sometimes you just have to put 'em out of their misery
> <Just what is James Brolin famous for?>
> Buddy action flicks, and one serious effort, Capricorn One. Conspiracy
> theorist that you are, the latter is one you might want to catch if nothing
> else in on TV. It's a little slow going at times but the premise about the
> moon landings being faked is kind of neat.
I *know* the moon landings were faked. A coke can being picked up by an
unprotected arm?
> <Any evidence that Porthios' failure was due to Gunthar is
> circumstantial at best>
>
> Look at it this way -- the Measure is late in being updated and Porthios
> falls. The Measure is updated on schedule and Porthios still falls,
> because the KoS won't invade elven lands while they're fighting KoT.
the schedule for the Measure was *directly after the war*. Porthios
probably fell because he couldn't demonstrate KoS reliability.
> >> >pretty obvious that Raistlin wanted to #$%^ Rosamun inside his own arse,
> >> >isn't it?
> >> Uh, no. Just how much did you drink at Simon's party?
> >
> >I wasn't there.
>
> Raistlin's oedipal complex, while strong, wasn't as severe as that.
have we been reading the same books?
> <Doll Collection>
> >dolls now? I think the angst pits just flared up.
> I was at a Gene doll convention two weekends ago near Philly. One of your
> countrymen sat at my table and gave us the cutest little koala souveniers.
> Not all Australians abhore koalas, it seems.
they're okay. They make decent assassins.
> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>
> >ever heard of psychological screening? I can't believe her stupidity -
> >totally failing to maintain cover (I would have mugged a few bad guys),
> >demonstrating an extremely high standard of swordsmanship, and being
> >unable to convince an elf she was racist?
> You've read the book more recently than I, but wasn't this story meant to
> show Linsha at an inexperienced point in her assignment? While I agree
> that her issues with roleplaying bugged me, it was in character for heroic
> knights like Sturm. I read it as Linsha learning not to be a victim to her
> hormones as well as stiff rules, since it was her feelings for the guy that
> got her into trouble as much as anything.
still, I can't believe the KoS would send an agent requiring on-the-job
training. For obvious reasons, she should have been trained in advance.
> <There have got to be assassins in the Jesuit order somewhere>
> In extremis, the Jesuits would handle the arrangements, but they
> wouldn't keep anyone on staff. The Church won't even acknowledge
> the existence of the official exorcists, so they won't take a chance on
> contract murder.
same as the CIA flogging drugs
> <The elves and dwarves have no reason to antagonize the KoS>
> >well, Hornfel's in a similar position to Porthios...
> Which means all parties involved look to help from the KoS, and not
> to insulting them by telling the KoS how to run their organization.
"I'm about to be deposed here! And my likely replacement *does not*
like humans! Throw me a frickin' bone here!"
> <By giving in to the KoT, the Qualinesti showed that economic prosperity
> matters more than intellectual pursuits like an updated Measure>
> >no choice. But willingness to fix the Measure is obviously indicative
> >of what kind of allies they are. Remember how the yanks wanted to stay
> >the hell out of the world until they realised they were a superpower?
>
> The Qualinesti under Solostaran fled rather than surrender to the dragon
> highlords. The KoS have the same commodity value to the elves
> regardless of the Measure. Unlike America, the elves know that they are
> a superpower, but they don't meddle because it's beneath them.
it figures that they'd be extremely cautious to enter a permanent
alliance with humans: a strong sign of good faith would be needed.
> <Rashas and Konnal used elven tribal hatred, not any failure of Gunthar's,
> to divide and conquer the elven nations>
> >he failed to deliver, and Porthios went down as a traitor selling his
> >people out to the human bastards.
>
> Rashas portrayed Porthios as a traitor to Qualinesti, and Konnal portrayed
> Porthios as a traitor to Silvanesti, because Porthios supported both nations.
> Gunthar didn't enter into it, and Rashas betrayed his people to the humans.
the United Races treaty was panned also because it involved opening the
doors to the KoS. The elves were never actually at war with each other,
just the nations were rivals.
> >> <Rohan's eternal damnation is to listen to the Uncle Trapspringer Audio>
> >if nothing else I'd deafen myself with the gun. Even a .22's quite loud
>
> If that happens, ou'd have to watch the Hanna Barbera cartoon version.
<gouge>
> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
> >> Since when is having a bathroom stocked with bath toys a violation
> >> of the Madonna code?
> >
> >he can get bath toys anywhere. He can conjure 'em up.
>
> He likes to save his energies for other things.
did I mention Krynn has strict export policies on live specimens? Think
about the fur trade. They *really* don't want rival markets.
> <Rohan doesn't need to drink, he gnomishly self medicates>
> >confused the shit out of people at school.
>
> And you said you weren't well-known at school.
known for some things more than others
> >> ><rack>
> >>
> >> Aren't you the sweetest little snuggle bunny.
> >
> >allow me to demonstrate.
>
> Spike's right over there, on the corner of the bed.
haven't seen him lately
> >> >> >> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
>
> >*Submarine.* Hasn't been done yet, but no reason why not,
>
> And just how is the sleigh supposed to get out of a sub?
we're talking about a purpose-built sub here. Basically a miniature
aircraft carrier which can be sealed for submersion. After a flight the
reindeer are flown by chopper out to their home, the Iceland version of
Area 51 (with forest and tundra), while Santa makes toys and indulges in
high seas piracy.
> >> >> <Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
> >I still need my hands to do important stuff
> Typing with your nose works. And computers have voice programs now.
I'm talking about using other tools
> <Simon's quite the ladies' man>
> >> Your admiration for your brother knows no bounds, I see.
> >
> ><retch>
> He'll never take you on double dates if you keep that up.
he never does anyway
> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
> >Democracy. Rule by the people. Social contracts. Revolution time.
>
> The American people are by and large happy with the nation and its
> standing in the world. If it aint broke ...
tell that to the 'Yes' Case people here
> <Altie's job has a lot of perks>
> >how much are your illegal earnings?
> The travel and the ability to work from home are the biggest perks.
> Bonuses are legal and captured on my tax invoice.
yeah, right
> >> <12 hours of roleplaying takes a lot of stamina>
> >the nearest shops were 7km away. Wasn't especially inspired, although I
> >got to kill some people. And freeze my arse off when the DM decided to
> >solo-run with one player - so kicked out the other three of us.
>
> Cold air woke you up then ;-) You need to pack a goody bag then if
> you're going to be playing in the boonies often.
I foolishly believed we'd be able to get some tucker. I'd taken my
lunch with me so a couple of sandwiches at 2.30 went some of the way.
> >> >> <Details on one guy who couldn't buy a favorable dice roll>
> >> >> Every group needs an RPG Dilbert.
> <But this guy's a bad role-player and obnoxious to boot.>
> When he gets really irritating, the DM should just fake a couple of
> encounter throws and either kill the character or make it a point that the
> character will be killed if the interruptions continue. Best way to
> handle the hackers who won't play the game right.
in that case he wasn't actually playing, just sitting there and talking
loudly to somebody who supposedly was. Personally I'm into Orbital
Artillery: a gunstar might just get out of control and start blasting.
> >> Good politicians know when they're running low on spell points. They
> >> lay low after pulling a major debacle and recouperate.
> >
> >what a great system of government
>
> The difference between us is that I'm slightly more jaded on how politics
> work than you are. There's quite a bit of the revolutionary optimist in you.
I actually believe in democracy. Oops.
> >> <The Werewolf game was suitably bloody and entertaining>
> >> Lots of gore and violence. You must have been in lycanthrope heaven.
>
> ><Rohan's *rooting* for the leader of his pack>
>
> Lots of emasculation here. Whatever happened to losing ears and fingers?
he had it coming
> <Rohan picked Cyberpunk overstudying>
>
> Naughty boy.
under-motivated boy with difficulty figuring out what the argument
behind my essay is.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Can I interest you in a copy of Salsa V: The Bloodening?
Rohan "Rentabomb" Tolstrup
focussed on grievance
thumb back a Colt three five seven
work through some emotions
Steve Miller
<< You've read the book more recently than I, but wasn't this story meant to
show Linsha at an inexperienced point in her assignment? While I agree
that her issues with roleplaying bugged me, it was in character for heroic
knights like Sturm. I read it as Linsha learning not to be a victim to her
hormones as well as stiff rules, since it was her feelings for the guy that
got her into trouble as much as anything. >>
That was about the speed of it, yes. That, and she's torn between wanting to be
a KNIGHT and needing to be sneaky and underhanded.
But, like she says in the story, a lesson was learned the hard way.
Tolstrup
>
> Altarielle wrote:
>
> << You've read the book more recently than I, but wasn't this story meant to
> show Linsha at an inexperienced point in her assignment? While I agree
> that her issues with roleplaying bugged me, it was in character for heroic
> knights like Sturm. I read it as Linsha learning not to be a victim to her
> hormones as well as stiff rules, since it was her feelings for the guy that
> got her into trouble as much as anything. >>
>
> a KNIGHT and needing to be sneaky and underhanded.
>
> But, like she says in the story, a lesson was learned the hard way.
What the hell was she doing in Sanction if she'd obviously never had
proper undercover training? She made numerous severe mistakes, and like
I said wasn't even able to convince an elf that she was racist. I've
seen better undercover work on television.
Rohan Tolstrup
Altarielle
nue...@aol.comDELETEIT (Steve Miller) writes:
>That was about the speed of it, yes. That, and she's torn between wanting to
>be a KNIGHT and needing to be sneaky and underhanded.
I knew the story was working for me when I kept thinking how Tika would have
shaken some sense into Linsha about real honor - I had accepted Linsha as a
"real" Majere and not someone in the Fifth Age box. It dawned on me that if
Linsha had taken easily to lying, there may have been more of Great Aunt Kit
than Grandpa Caramon in her.
Come to think of it, Linsha's reaction has a slight parallel in Caramon's first
battle in BiA, where Caramon was expecting a Camelot type fight and got
sickened by the gore.
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
>so you're allowed to buy a wife from the parent, provided she's
>underage?
Haven't you ever heard of dowries and arranged marriages? The kids are
betrothed, and the consummation comes later. At 18 you can negotiate
your own deal.
>Of course, the point is for marriages that last.
One of my first bosses had an arranged marriage and it's still going strong.
She said that she never doubted she'd be happy because her mom would
never pick a loser for her.
>
>> >And you get two humps.
>>
>> At least I wouldn't be worn out.
>
><slap>
>two humps per camel.
Slap yourself on the other side of the face now for even suggesting bestiality.
>
<A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
In that case, you've created gods without bodies. The situation might
be even worse than in the former Krynnish pantheon, because emotions
would be instantaneously turned into reality.
>
>> <Rohan's post communism police force is open to graft>
>remember, my house is the embassy. Actually I own several small
>countries
Id, Ego, and Superego are only states of the *mind*.
>> Having an Ariakas double might put the idea of creating a
>> puppet regime in the head of an enterprising officer.
>
>Takhy might object to such cowardice
Takhy always encouraged deviousness and survival of the fittest.
>> <People occasionally drop in on this thread>
>> The thread *is* on a public newsgroup, dear.
>
>you don't hang around nude beaches much, do you?
The real reason you haven't finished your homework surfaces.
>
>> <Rohan's shooting the pretty boys again.>
>> >This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
>> Make it Dark Heart and I'll believe you.
>
>how about Last Tower: Legacy of Raistlin?
You're not a SAGA player, so it's got to be Dark Heart.
>
>> <Altie's got negative views of socialism and most forms of welfare>
>isn't the US Senate similar to the House of Lords? And the idea of
>balance being insured by politicians being forced to take bribes from
>multiple people...
The US Senate is a mix of old money and up and comers. If Guiliani
gets in, you're talking a guy with middle class roots. As far as graft is
concerned, the Senators are too competitive for a truly illegal exchange
to get past them.
>
>> >> <Altie's going to Italy>
>you willingly booked onto a plane which will be filled with rabid
>millenial pilgrims?
Since most of the Americans going will likely be heading for the
ceremonies, it would have been hard to avoid them.
> I'm assuming you did the booking, considering your
>mother must be at least seventy by now.
At least 70? She might find that moderately amusing. My mom
is 62. My eldest brothers and sisters are my father's children,
remember?
>And you'll be met at the airport
And I feel sorry for whoever meets us, since they'll have to deal
with my angry "70 plus" year old mom.
>
<Why would I want to shoot Raistlin?>
>sometimes you just have to put 'em out of their misery
Until someone creates another mage of his ilk, Raistlin must live.
>
<Capricorn One alleged that the moon landings were fake>
>I *know* the moon landings were faked. A coke can being picked up by an
>unprotected arm?
Unprotected? I thought the astronauts wore off-white flexible gloves.
>
>> <Any evidence that Porthios' failure was due to Gunthar is
>> circumstantial at best>
>the schedule for the Measure was *directly after the war*. Porthios
>probably fell because he couldn't demonstrate KoS reliability.
Okay, let's say the Measure was "fixed" after the WotL. What iota of
difference would that have made during the Chaos War? The Measure
would not have stopped the KoT.
>
>> >>pretty obvious that Raistlin wanted to #$%^ Rosamun inside his own
>arse, isn't it?
>> Raistlin's oedipal complex, while strong, wasn't as severe as that.
>
>have we been reading the same books?
Yes we have, and I don't recall any specific mention of Raistlin entertaining
sexual thoughts toward his mother.
>> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>still, I can't believe the KoS would send an agent requiring on-the-job
>training. For obvious reasons, she should have been trained in advance.
Just how would Linsha have trained for duplicity? It's like war gaming in
the army -- until body parts start flying at you, you don't know how you're
going to react.
>> <The elves and dwarves have no reason to antagonize the KoS>
>"I'm about to be deposed here! And my likely replacement *does not*
>like humans! Throw me a frickin' bone here!"
"Hey you guys, leave Porthios alone or I'll get real nasty and revise the
Measure!" You're right, not even Soth's power word Die can compare
to that.
>
>> <By giving in to the KoT, the Qualinesti showed that economic prosperity
>> matters more than intellectual pursuits like an updated Measure>
>it figures that they'd be extremely cautious to enter a permanent
>alliance with humans: a strong sign of good faith would be needed.
A garrison against the KoT would have been better. How many modern
nations would accept a rewrite of the constitution as a treaty guarantee?
>
>> <Rashas and Konnal used elven tribal hatred, not any failure of Gunthar's,
>> to divide and conquer the elven nations>
>the United Races treaty was panned also because it involved opening the
>doors to the KoS. The elves were never actually at war with each other,
>just the nations were rivals.
Which goes to show that the only thing the elves were interested in,
besides keeping their nations separate, was keeping the KoS out of its
affairs. They didn't give a hoot about the Measure, as long as it wasn't
rewritten to include sovereignty over the elves.
>
>> >> <Rohan's eternal damnation is to listen to the Uncle Trapspringer Audio>
>> >if nothing else I'd deafen myself with the gun. Even a .22's quite loud
>>
>> If that happens, ou'd have to watch the Hanna Barbera cartoon version.
>
><gouge>
You'd be forced to go through the braille version.
>> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
>> >he can get bath toys anywhere. He can conjure 'em up.
>>
>> He likes to save his energies for other things.
>
>did I mention Krynn has strict export policies on live specimens? Think
>about the fur trade. They *really* don't want rival markets.
That's why the playthings stay put, and he visits weekly. Avoids
customs that way.
>
>> <Rohan doesn't need to drink, he gnomishly self medicates>
>known for some things more than others
I'd love to get the whole story out of Simon someday.
And has Spike returned?
>
>> >> >> >> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
>we're talking about a purpose-built sub here. Basically a miniature
>aircraft carrier which can be sealed for submersion. After a flight the
>reindeer are flown by chopper out to their home, the Iceland version of
>Area 51 (with forest and tundra), while Santa makes toys and indulges in
>high seas piracy.
Why chopper? The reindeer should be able to outfly the supersonic.
Santa as a pirate? "Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of Cider."
>
>> >> >> <Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
>> >I still need my hands to do important stuff
>> Typing with your nose works. And computers have voice programs now.
>
>I'm talking about using other tools
Simon can always feed you.
>
>> <Simon's quite the ladies' man>
>> He'll never take you on double dates if you keep that up.
>
>he never does anyway
You'd vomit all over his shoes. You're the Aussie version of Stan Marsh.
>
>> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
>> The American people are by and large happy with the nation and its
>> standing in the world. If it aint broke ...
>
>tell that to the 'Yes' Case people here
I would, if I knew who they were.
>> >> <12 hours of roleplaying and no food!>
>I foolishly believed we'd be able to get some tucker. I'd taken my
>lunch with me so a couple of sandwiches at 2.30 went some of the way.
A caffeine filled thermos would keep you peppy.
>
>> <But this guy's a bad role-player and obnoxious to boot.>
>in that case he wasn't actually playing, just sitting there and talking
>loudly to somebody who supposedly was. Personally I'm into Orbital
>Artillery: a gunstar might just get out of control and start blasting.
Why does the annoyance get to stay -- is it his home you're playing in?
>> The difference between us is that I'm slightly more jaded on how politics
>> work than you are. There's quite a bit of the revolutionary optimist in
>you.
>
>I actually believe in democracy. Oops.
Modern democracy involves government by representation. You're sitting
on the socialist side of the fence.
>
>> >> <The Werewolf game was suitably bloody and entertaining>
>> Lots of emasculation here. Whatever happened to losing ears and fingers?
>
>he had it coming
Not being able to father potential lycanthropes is cruel.
>
>> <Rohan picked Cyberpunk over studying>
>>
>> Naughty boy.
>
>under-motivated boy with difficulty figuring out what the argument
>behind my essay is.
Based on some of your posts, that's business as usual,eh? ;-)
>
>Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
meow.
>
>Can I interest you in a copy of Salsa V: The Bloodening?
No thanks, I'll read the paperback.
>
>Rohan "Rentabomb" Tolstrup
>
>focussed on grievance
>thumb back a Colt three five seven
>work through some emotions
>
You've got an extra syllable in line 2.
Tolstrup
> >underage?
>
> Haven't you ever heard of dowries and arranged marriages? The kids are
> betrothed, and the consummation comes later. At 18 you can negotiate
> your own deal.
sounds pretty civilised. I wasn't sure, the 'cash for bride' bit
somewhat threw me.
> >Of course, the point is for marriages that last.
>
> One of my first bosses had an arranged marriage and it's still going strong.
> She said that she never doubted she'd be happy because her mom would
> never pick a loser for her.
I like the idea myself, because assuming parents aren't just out to make
an alliance it makes sense to base a marriage on what will work.
However, I'd insist on having final decision. I'm 21!
> >> >And you get two humps.
> >> At least I wouldn't be worn out.
> ><slap>
> >two humps per camel.
>
> Slap yourself on the other side of the face now for even suggesting bestiality.
you started it
> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
> In that case, you've created gods without bodies. The situation might
> be even worse than in the former Krynnish pantheon, because emotions
> would be instantaneously turned into reality.
I'm thinking the *souls* do the talking. No reason for souls to be
irrational, and besides consensus requirement is a safeguard.
> >> <Rohan's post communism police force is open to graft>
> >remember, my house is the embassy. Actually I own several small
> >countries
> Id, Ego, and Superego are only states of the *mind*.
you haven't looked at a map recently, have you? Did you know there are
no laws in space?
> >> Having an Ariakas double might put the idea of creating a
> >> puppet regime in the head of an enterprising officer.
> >
> >Takhy might object to such cowardice
>
> Takhy always encouraged deviousness and survival of the fittest.
she wouldn't want to lose somebody like Ariakas unless he was beat in a
(comparatively) fair fight.
> >> <People occasionally drop in on this thread>
> >> The thread *is* on a public newsgroup, dear.
> >you don't hang around nude beaches much, do you?
> The real reason you haven't finished your homework surfaces.
I'd freeze
> >> <Rohan's shooting the pretty boys again.>
> >> >This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
> >> Make it Dark Heart and I'll believe you.
> >how about Last Tower: Legacy of Raistlin?
>
> You're not a SAGA player, so it's got to be Dark Heart.
haven't got it on hand. Dark Queen, Kendermore or Eve of the Maelstrom.
> >> <Altie's got negative views of socialism and most forms of welfare>
> >isn't the US Senate similar to the House of Lords? And the idea of
> >balance being insured by politicians being forced to take bribes from
> >multiple people...
>
> The US Senate is a mix of old money and up and comers. If Guiliani
> gets in, you're talking a guy with middle class roots. As far as graft is
> concerned, the Senators are too competitive for a truly illegal exchange
> to get past them.
yeah, just your rights are ignored if you didn't pay somebody ten grand.
> >> >> <Altie's going to Italy>
> >you willingly booked onto a plane which will be filled with rabid
> >millenial pilgrims?
> Since most of the Americans going will likely be heading for the
> ceremonies, it would have been hard to avoid them.
well, get yourself a kilometre of industrial rubber band, build a
slingshot with the aid of a GPS unit and a physicist, and don't forget a
drysuit and a parachute.
> > I'm assuming you did the booking, considering your
> >mother must be at least seventy by now.
>
> At least 70? She might find that moderately amusing. My mom
> is 62. My eldest brothers and sisters are my father's children,
> remember?
whoopsie. Forgot about that. I'm used to nuclear families with a
maximum of three planned children.
> >And you'll be met at the airport
> And I feel sorry for whoever meets us, since they'll have to deal
> with my angry "70 plus" year old mom.
oops. But if they think she's 70 won't they compliment her on how much
younger she looks? Besides, I have significant manpower.
> <Why would I want to shoot Raistlin?>
> >sometimes you just have to put 'em out of their misery
> Until someone creates another mage of his ilk, Raistlin must live.
he can at least retire. Too many bloody sequels, prequels and what ifs.
> <Capricorn One alleged that the moon landings were fake>
> >I *know* the moon landings were faked. A coke can being picked up by an
> >unprotected arm?
>
> Unprotected? I thought the astronauts wore off-white flexible gloves.
Evidently a unsuited arm reaches in from out of frame and grabs a coke
can that was lying around on the set.
> >> <Any evidence that Porthios' failure was due to Gunthar is
> >> circumstantial at best>
>
> >the schedule for the Measure was *directly after the war*. Porthios
> >probably fell because he couldn't demonstrate KoS reliability.
>
> Okay, let's say the Measure was "fixed" after the WotL. What iota of
> difference would that have made during the Chaos War? The Measure
> would not have stopped the KoT.
The KoS would've increased their credibility and unity. They would have
been prepared to fight a guerilla war in the event of KoT takeover.
This prestige would have led to more recruits (Majeres are the first
non-Solamnics? That's throwing open the doors to a flood of
applicants?). I imagine they would have sent a brigade to help Porthios
clean up Silvanesti, placed under his command; even if refused the
gesture would have been appreciated and it would have been much harder
for Rashas and Konnal to call him a traitor over the treaty. Being the
Krynnish equivalent of America they could reasonably have implemented a
sort of Marshall Plan, generating further goodwill and cooperation. As
Gunthar's recalcitrance is probably the prime factor behind the treaty's
failure, his delivery probably would have ensured its success, and the
High Clerist Tower would have been defended by elven archers and dwarven
infantry. What made Ansalon an attractive target originally was that it
was in disarray. Ariakan genuinely believed it was necessary to sweep
out the old, corrupt governments and implement true law. He probably
still would have attacked, but he would have found a unified Ansalon
waiting for him. And did he have that many brutes?
> >> >>pretty obvious that Raistlin wanted to #$%^ Rosamun inside his own
> >arse, isn't it?
>
> >> Raistlin's oedipal complex, while strong, wasn't as severe as that.
> >
> >have we been reading the same books?
>
> Yes we have, and I don't recall any specific mention of Raistlin entertaining
> sexual thoughts toward his mother.
"come home"
> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
> >still, I can't believe the KoS would send an agent requiring on-the-job
> >training. For obvious reasons, she should have been trained in advance.
>
> Just how would Linsha have trained for duplicity? It's like war gaming in
> the army -- until body parts start flying at you, you don't know how you're
> going to react.
you know how the SAS trains people to resist interrogation? In her
case, it's a matter of practising lying. Although it's not exactly a
Graduate Diploma course (me doing HR management?) the KoS could easily
get hold of a competent teacher.
> >> <The elves and dwarves have no reason to antagonize the KoS>
> >"I'm about to be deposed here! And my likely replacement *does not*
> >like humans! Throw me a frickin' bone here!"
> "Hey you guys, leave Porthios alone or I'll get real nasty and revise the
> Measure!" You're right, not even Soth's power word Die can compare
> to that.
imo, Porthios went down because he gambled on Gunthar coughing up.
> >> <By giving in to the KoT, the Qualinesti showed that economic prosperity
> >> matters more than intellectual pursuits like an updated Measure>
>
> >it figures that they'd be extremely cautious to enter a permanent
> >alliance with humans: a strong sign of good faith would be needed.
>
> A garrison against the KoT would have been better. How many modern
> nations would accept a rewrite of the constitution as a treaty guarantee?
essentially it's like Australia trying to forge close ties with a
non-white country while supporting the White Australia policy. For
normal relations it just has to go.
> >the United Races treaty was panned also because it involved opening the
> >doors to the KoS. The elves were never actually at war with each other,
> >just the nations were rivals.
>
> Which goes to show that the only thing the elves were interested in,
> besides keeping their nations separate, was keeping the KoS out of its
> affairs. They didn't give a hoot about the Measure, as long as it wasn't
> rewritten to include sovereignty over the elves.
been a while since I read that bit, and I thought the problem was the
KoS involvement. They didn't want to ally with the KoS and were alarmed
at the prospect of humans in their turf, largely because of human
recalcitrance.
> >> >> <Rohan's eternal damnation is to listen to the Uncle Trapspringer Audio>
> >> >if nothing else I'd deafen myself with the gun. Even a .22's quite loud
> >>
> >> If that happens, ou'd have to watch the Hanna Barbera cartoon version.
> >
> ><gouge>
>
> You'd be forced to go through the braille version.
what can I pull the trigger with the second time?
> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
> >> >he can get bath toys anywhere. He can conjure 'em up.
> >>
> >> He likes to save his energies for other things.
> >
> >did I mention Krynn has strict export policies on live specimens? Think
> >about the fur trade. They *really* don't want rival markets.
> That's why the playthings stay put, and he visits weekly. Avoids
> customs that way.
seems to have a high-pitched voice lately, doesn't he?
> >> <Rohan doesn't need to drink, he gnomishly self medicates>
> >known for some things more than others
> I'd love to get the whole story out of Simon someday.
I erased it from his memory
> And has Spike returned?
yep. Bunsen is trying to eat him or something.
> >> >> >> >> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
> >we're talking about a purpose-built sub here. Basically a miniature
> >aircraft carrier which can be sealed for submersion. After a flight the
> >reindeer are flown by chopper out to their home, the Iceland version of
> >Area 51 (with forest and tundra), while Santa makes toys and indulges in
> >high seas piracy.
>
> Why chopper? The reindeer should be able to outfly the supersonic.
ever occur to you they might want a rest?
> Santa as a pirate? "Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of Cider."
where else does he get the toys?
> >> >> >> <Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
> >> >I still need my hands to do important stuff
> >> Typing with your nose works. And computers have voice programs now.
> >
> >I'm talking about using other tools
>
> Simon can always feed you.
I don't want him around as a witness
> >> <Simon's quite the ladies' man>
> >> He'll never take you on double dates if you keep that up.
> >
> >he never does anyway
> You'd vomit all over his shoes. You're the Aussie version of Stan Marsh.
no, I'm not that bad. Next to me he's a two-pot screamer.
> >> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
> >> The American people are by and large happy with the nation and its
> >> standing in the world. If it aint broke ...
> >
> >tell that to the 'Yes' Case people here
>
> I would, if I knew who they were.
according to a bunch of liars who rigged a poll, about 73%
> >> >> <12 hours of roleplaying and no food!>
> >I foolishly believed we'd be able to get some tucker. I'd taken my
> >lunch with me so a couple of sandwiches at 2.30 went some of the way.
> A caffeine filled thermos would keep you peppy.
I take along a 1.25 of Max in a coolant-filled sleeve, inside an
insulated bag with a polar bear on it.
> >> <But this guy's a bad role-player and obnoxious to boot.>
> >in that case he wasn't actually playing, just sitting there and talking
> >loudly to somebody who supposedly was. Personally I'm into Orbital
> >Artillery: a gunstar might just get out of control and start blasting.
>
> Why does the annoyance get to stay -- is it his home you're playing in?
complicated. He's actually ok in my game (at my place).
> >> The difference between us is that I'm slightly more jaded on how politics
> >> work than you are. There's quite a bit of the revolutionary optimist in
> >you.
> >
> >I actually believe in democracy. Oops.
>
> Modern democracy involves government by representation. You're sitting
> on the socialist side of the fence.
I'm a liberal!
> >> >> <The Werewolf game was suitably bloody and entertaining>
> >> Lots of emasculation here. Whatever happened to losing ears and fingers?
> >
> >he had it coming
> Not being able to father potential lycanthropes is cruel.
wrong character. And Detective "Sandman" Pondsmith got a new set.
Besides, I may be able to do this character as well.
> >> <Rohan picked Cyberpunk over studying>
> >> Naughty boy.
> >under-motivated boy with difficulty figuring out what the argument
> >behind my essay is.
> Based on some of your posts, that's business as usual,eh? ;-)
I kinda know what I'm doing now. 3000 words by Friday 4.30.
> >Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
> meow.
Acquired. Locking on. Target locked. AMRAAMs armed. Firing.
> >Can I interest you in a copy of Salsa V: The Bloodening?
>
> No thanks, I'll read the paperback.
video only, rated Rdvda
> >Rohan "Rentabomb" Tolstrup
> >
> >focussed on grievance
> >thumb back a Colt three five seven
> >work through some emotions
>
> You've got an extra syllable in line 2.
so ditch Colt, "three five sev"?
thumb on razor edge
screaming flight of doe-eyed prey
bleeding head by hair
Rohan "machete boy" Tolstrup, looking at Graduate Diplomas
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Arranged marriages are still the norm in some cultures>
>
>I like the idea myself, because assuming parents aren't just out to make
>an alliance it makes sense to base a marriage on what will work.
>However, I'd insist on having final decision. I'm 21!
A male friend of mine asked his mom to provide him with pictures and bios
for the girls who made the second cut. But he ended up chickening out.
>
>> >> >And you get two humps.
>> >> At least I wouldn't be worn out.
>> ><slap>
>> >two humps per camel.
>>
>> Slap yourself on the other side of the face now for even suggesting
>bestiality.
>
>you started it
:-P
>
>> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>I'm thinking the *souls* do the talking. No reason for souls to be
>irrational, and besides consensus requirement is a safeguard.
Souls can be evil or good, so what happens when they can't reach
consensus? A magic drought lasting 1,000 years?
>
>> >> <Rohan thinks he owns some countries>
>> Id, Ego, and Superego are only states of the *mind*.
>
>you haven't looked at a map recently, have you?
Yes I have -- the difference between mine and yours is that the nations on
my map are real.
>Did you know there are no laws in space?
There's also competing missile defense systems up there as well.
>
<Tak might object to someone overthrowing Ariakas underhandedly>
>>she wouldn't want to lose somebody like Ariakas unless he was beat in a
>(comparatively) fair fight.
Since when does fair count with Tak? To her, if Ariakas get deposed for
whatever reason, then he didn't deserve to be head of the dragonarmies.
>
<you don't hang around nude beaches much, do you?>
>> The real reason you haven't finished your homework surfaces.
>
>I'd freeze
But you'd get an eyeful doing it.
>
>> >> <Rohan's shooting the pretty boys again.>
>> >> >This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
>> >> Make it Dark Heart and I'll believe you.
>haven't got it on hand. Dark Queen, Kendermore or Eve of the Maelstrom.
Won't believe you then.
>
<The Senate ignores your rights if you have no graft money>
There is no shortage of groups willing to represent you for free if you
lose your rights. ACLU, anybody?
>> >> >> <Altie's going to Italy>
>well, get yourself a kilometre of industrial rubber band, build a
>slingshot with the aid of a GPS unit and a physicist, and don't forget a
>drysuit and a parachute.
Doesn't work for the luggage.
<How to win points with my "70 plus" year old mother>
>
>whoopsie. Forgot about that. I'm used to nuclear families with a
>maximum of three planned children.
From her POV, it was nuclear. Her first and only marriage.
>
>> >And you'll be met at the airport
>> And I feel sorry for whoever meets us, since they'll have to deal
>> with my angry "70 plus" year old mom.
>
>oops. But if they think she's 70 won't they compliment her on how much
>younger she looks?
Nice recovery.
> Besides, I have significant manpower.
Bunsen and Spike don't count. And Simon wouldn't care.
>
>> <Why would I want to shoot Raistlin?>
>he can at least retire. Too many bloody sequels, prequels and what ifs.
It was sort of like watching Ted Williams at the Baseball Team of the
Century ceremony -- you never get tired of seeing the great ones.
>
>> <Capricorn One alleged that the moon landings were fake>
>Evidently a unsuited arm reaches in from out of frame and grabs a coke
>can that was lying around on the set.
Walked right into that one, didn't I?
>
>> Okay, let's say the Measure was "fixed" after the WotL. What iota of
>> difference would that have made during the Chaos War? The Measure
>> would not have stopped the KoT.
>
>The KoS would've increased their credibility and unity. They would have
>been prepared to fight a guerilla war in the event of KoT takeover.
The Measure, even after it was rewritten, did not change that much. This
is a big "if." Look at Linsha's reticence to go undercover.
>This prestige would have led to more recruits (Majeres are the first
>non-Solamnics? That's throwing open the doors to a flood of
>applicants?).
If the glamour of Sturm's death didn't lure them in, a revised Measure
wasn't going to do it. In fact, not opening the doors sooner points to
the fact that young Solamnics must have flocked to join the KoS, since
there was no immediate need to launch into a recruitment campaign.
>I imagine they would have sent a brigade to help Porthios
>clean up Silvanesti, placed under his command; even if refused the
>gesture would have been appreciated and it would have been much harder
>for Rashas and Konnal to call him a traitor over the treaty.
Having access to a KoS brigade might have been appreciated by Porthios,
but it would have been presented by Rashas and Konnal as an attempt
to dilute elven strength by introducing foreign elements.
>Being the Krynnish equivalent of America they could reasonably have
>implemented a sort of Marshall Plan, generating further goodwill and
>cooperation. As Gunthar's recalcitrance is probably the prime factor
>behind the treaty's failure, his delivery probably would have ensured its
>success, and the High Clerist Tower would have been defended by elven
>archers and dwarven infantry.
Didn't the Puppet King state that Tanis had already secured the Knights'
approval for the treaty? And the main reason the treaty was kept from
Rashas and Konnal was because they would have stirred up the old
Silvanesti-Qualinesti feud?
Both the elven and dwarven nations would not enter the war until they
were absolutely certain that the KoT would come after them.
>What made Ansalon an attractive target originally was that it was in
>disarray. Ariakan genuinely believed it was necessary to sweep out
>the old, corrupt governments and implement true law. He probably
>still would have attacked, but he would have found a unified Ansalon
>waiting for him. And did he have that many brutes?
The League of Nations didn't work in the real world, so I see it as even
less likely in Ansalon. Unified Ansalon? I see the "UA" Security Council
about as effective as the UN 's.
>
>> >have we been reading the same books?
>>
>> Yes we have, and I don't recall any specific mention of Raistlin
>> entertaining sexual thoughts toward his mother.
>
>"come home"
My you're feeling frisky today. And that was Rosamun's line, not Raist's.
>
>> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>you know how the SAS trains people to resist interrogation? In her
>case, it's a matter of practising lying. Although it's not exactly a
>Graduate Diploma course (me doing HR management?) the KoS could easily
>get hold of a competent teacher.
Who's to say the KoS didn't have a competent espionage teacher?
Linsha's conscience was her problem, and she did convince the guys
she was not a KoS. Some people go through training and break anyway.
And you wouldn't like HR management -- it's about defending the company
from lawsuits.
>
>> >> <The elves and dwarves have no reason to antagonize the KoS>
>imo, Porthios went down because he gambled on Gunthar coughing up.
Gunthar did what Porthios wanted and accepted the treaty. There's
nothing else to cough up.
>
>> A garrison against the KoT would have been better. How many modern
>> nations would accept a rewrite of the constitution as a treaty guarantee?
>
>essentially it's like Australia trying to forge close ties with a
>non-white country while supporting the White Australia policy. For
>normal relations it just has to go.
The elves and dwarves don't care about the Solamnic requirement because
they don't consider joining a human order representing a specific nation to
be especially prestigious. And the elves would not like to see their best
warriors leave to join an alien army.
>
>been a while since I read that bit, and I thought the problem was the
>KoS involvement. They didn't want to ally with the KoS and were alarmed
>at the prospect of humans in their turf, largely because of human
>recalcitrance.
The KoS agreed to the treaty. What Rashas and Konnal did not want was
human involvement in elven affairs -- elves blame humans for everything that
goes wrong on Krynn. And that was incidental to uniting the elven nations,
which both saw as the real danger.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan's eternal damnation is to listen to the Uncle Trapspringer
>Audio>
>> You'd be forced to go through the braille version.
>
>what can I pull the trigger with the second time?
This is beginning to sound like the "Black Knight" scene from Monty
Python and the Holy Grail.
>
>> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
>> >did I mention Krynn has strict export policies on live specimens? Think
>> >about the fur trade. They *really* don't want rival markets.
>> That's why the playthings stay put, and he visits weekly. Avoids
>> customs that way.
>
>seems to have a high-pitched voice lately, doesn't he?
He's been having some sinus troubles, but everything else is in
working order.
>
>> >> >> >> >> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
>> Why chopper? The reindeer should be able to outfly the supersonic.
>
>ever occur to you they might want a rest?
They make a pitstop in Hawaii before going on to Asia.
>
>> Santa as a pirate? "Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of Cider."
>
>where else does he get the toys?
Workaholic elves.
>
>> >> >> >> <Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
>> Simon can always feed you.
>
>I don't want him around as a witness
The room's already bugged. You really think he just wants to play
Minesweeper?
>
>> >> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
>> >tell that to the 'Yes' Case people here
>>
>> I would, if I knew who they were.
>
>according to a bunch of liars who rigged a poll, about 73%
That still doesn't tell me who they are.
>
>> >> >> <12 hours of roleplaying and no food!>
>I take along a 1.25 of Max in a coolant-filled sleeve, inside an
>insulated bag with a polar bear on it.
Isn't lugging about a polar bear hard on the shoulders?
>
>> Modern democracy involves government by representation. You're sitting
>> on the socialist side of the fence.
>
>I'm a liberal!
Rulership by the proletariat is definitely socialist. Liberals believe in
representative government.
>
>> >> >> <The Werewolf game was suitably bloody and entertaining>
>> >> Lots of emasculation here. Whatever happened to losing ears and fingers?
>> >
>> >he had it coming
>> Not being able to father potential lycanthropes is cruel.
>
>wrong character. And Detective "Sandman" Pondsmith got a new set.
>Besides, I may be able to do this character as well.
He got a new set? Share the technology with Spike and Bunsen.
>
>> >> <Rohan picked Cyberpunk over studying>
>
>I kinda know what I'm doing now. 3000 words by Friday 4.30.
Unless of course you get sidetracked by another nude beach trip.
>
>> >Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
>> meow.
>
>Acquired. Locking on. Target locked. AMRAAMs armed. Firing.
Missed, snookums. Now do your homework.
>
>> >focussed on grievance
>> >thumb back a Colt three five seven
>> >work through some emotions
>>
>> You've got an extra syllable in line 2.
>
>so ditch Colt, "three five sev"?
Can't do "one, two, three?" It works then.
>
>thumb on razor edge
>screaming flight of doe-eyed prey
>bleeding head by hair
No wonder Simon doesn't bring up double dating.
Tolstrup
> >I like the idea myself, because assuming parents aren't just out to make
> >an alliance it makes sense to base a marriage on what will work.
> >However, I'd insist on having final decision. I'm 21!
> A male friend of mine asked his mom to provide him with pictures and bios
> for the girls who made the second cut. But he ended up chickening out.
no system's perfect, and sounds like the marital equivalent of
communism: doesn't take into account humans.
> >> Slap yourself on the other side of the face now for even suggesting
> >bestiality.
> >you started it
> :-P
|
+====|-----------------.
| __;_
> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>
> >I'm thinking the *souls* do the talking. No reason for souls to be
> >irrational, and besides consensus requirement is a safeguard.
>
> Souls can be evil or good, so what happens when they can't reach
> consensus? A magic drought lasting 1,000 years?
that's why I envision more than one of these. At least Good Neutral and
Evil gestalts, and possibly others (or maybe committees).
> >> >> <Rohan thinks he owns some countries>
> >> Id, Ego, and Superego are only states of the *mind*.
> >
> >you haven't looked at a map recently, have you?
> Yes I have -- the difference between mine and yours is that the nations on
> my map are real.
look *closer*
> >Did you know there are no laws in space?
> There's also competing missile defense systems up there as well.
competing? Like 1984. I own them.
> <Tak might object to someone overthrowing Ariakas underhandedly>
> >>she wouldn't want to lose somebody like Ariakas unless he was beat in a
> >(comparatively) fair fight.
>
> Since when does fair count with Tak? To her, if Ariakas get deposed for
> whatever reason, then he didn't deserve to be head of the dragonarmies.
she'd want a competent replacement for him, not some Akar Kessell.
> <you don't hang around nude beaches much, do you?>
> >> The real reason you haven't finished your homework surfaces.
> >
> >I'd freeze
>
> But you'd get an eyeful doing it.
no I wouldn't. Aussies aren't stupid.
> >> >> <Rohan's shooting the pretty boys again.>
> >> >> >This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
> >> >> Make it Dark Heart and I'll believe you.
>
> >haven't got it on hand. Dark Queen, Kendermore or Eve of the Maelstrom.
>
> Won't believe you then.
Dragon #243 then
> <The Senate ignores your rights if you have no graft money>
> There is no shortage of groups willing to represent you for free if you
> lose your rights. ACLU, anybody?
and they can get the same legislative access as Wall St?
> >> >> >> <Altie's going to Italy>
> >well, get yourself a kilometre of industrial rubber band, build a
> >slingshot with the aid of a GPS unit and a physicist, and don't forget a
> >drysuit and a parachute.
>
> Doesn't work for the luggage.
for that, we use massdrivers. Don't pack anything fragile.
> <How to win points with my "70 plus" year old mother>
> >
> >whoopsie. Forgot about that. I'm used to nuclear families with a
> >maximum of three planned children.
>
> From her POV, it was nuclear. Her first and only marriage.
<calculates odds>
<makes note to obtain another calculator>
> >> >And you'll be met at the airport
> >> And I feel sorry for whoever meets us, since they'll have to deal
> >> with my angry "70 plus" year old mom.
> >
> >oops. But if they think she's 70 won't they compliment her on how much
> >younger she looks?
>
> Nice recovery.
<phew>
> > Besides, I have significant manpower.
>
> Bunsen and Spike don't count. And Simon wouldn't care.
those two would have quarantine problems, and Simon's reluctant to enter
Italy for reasons he hasn't quite revealed. I do however know guys who
know guys.
> >> <Why would I want to shoot Raistlin?>
> >he can at least retire. Too many bloody sequels, prequels and what ifs.
> It was sort of like watching Ted Williams at the Baseball Team of the
> Century ceremony -- you never get tired of seeing the great ones.
except for when they're cheapened by DoSF and Soulforge
> >> <Capricorn One alleged that the moon landings were fake>
>
> >Evidently a unsuited arm reaches in from out of frame and grabs a coke
> >can that was lying around on the set.
>
> Walked right into that one, didn't I?
you've got an alibi, you were in nappies at the time
> >> Okay, let's say the Measure was "fixed" after the WotL. What iota of
> >> difference would that have made during the Chaos War? The Measure
> >> would not have stopped the KoT.
> >
> >The KoS would've increased their credibility and unity. They would have
> >been prepared to fight a guerilla war in the event of KoT takeover.
>
> The Measure, even after it was rewritten, did not change that much. This
> is a big "if." Look at Linsha's reticence to go undercover.
I'm inclined to include a huge grain of salt. I understand Steevy also
wrote HoSt, which from what I've heard provides an unrealistic portrayal
of the KoS. As far as I'm concerned, if the KoS are serious about the
Oath, then they will do whatever is necessary to most efficiently uphold
it. This means open-door recruitment and clandestine operations. Linsha
is increasingly looking like a stupid woman who signed up because of her
supposed Heroic Legacy and not because she had thought about what she
was doing and the implications in a world where set-piece battles
between armies are tactically foolish. In a situation where the KoS are
being wrongfully portayed as idiotic marble pillars, while the Legion of
Steel is consistently shown in a favourable light, what else am I
supposed to think?
> >This prestige would have led to more recruits (Majeres are the first
> >non-Solamnics? That's throwing open the doors to a flood of
> >applicants?).
> If the glamour of Sturm's death didn't lure them in, a revised Measure
> wasn't going to do it. In fact, not opening the doors sooner points to
> the fact that young Solamnics must have flocked to join the KoS, since
> there was no immediate need to launch into a recruitment campaign.
yes. But how many non-Solamnics took them seriously? I take issue with
them being the first non-Solamnics; they've been letting in half-elves
from Day One, and the KoS aren't meant to be specifically state-
sponsored. How many local non-Solamnic lords would have trusted this
incompetent organisation with their kids?
> >I imagine they would have sent a brigade to help Porthios
> >clean up Silvanesti, placed under his command; even if refused the
> >gesture would have been appreciated and it would have been much harder
> >for Rashas and Konnal to call him a traitor over the treaty.
>
> Having access to a KoS brigade might have been appreciated by Porthios,
> but it would have been presented by Rashas and Konnal as an attempt
> to dilute elven strength by introducing foreign elements.
how successfully? Their main plank would have been that Porthios was
selling out only for personal gain. It could have been made quite clear
that the KoS were present to help, and under elven command.
> >Being the Krynnish equivalent of America they could reasonably have
> >implemented a sort of Marshall Plan, generating further goodwill and
> >cooperation. As Gunthar's recalcitrance is probably the prime factor
> >behind the treaty's failure, his delivery probably would have ensured its
> >success, and the High Clerist Tower would have been defended by elven
> >archers and dwarven infantry.
>
> Didn't the Puppet King state that Tanis had already secured the Knights'
> approval for the treaty? And the main reason the treaty was kept from
> Rashas and Konnal was because they would have stirred up the old
> Silvanesti-Qualinesti feud?
distrust of the KoS makes more sense. The two have never fought.
> Both the elven and dwarven nations would not enter the war until they
> were absolutely certain that the KoT would come after them.
largely because the humans had done nothing to make them want to join.
> >What made Ansalon an attractive target originally was that it was in
> >disarray. Ariakan genuinely believed it was necessary to sweep out
> >the old, corrupt governments and implement true law. He probably
> >still would have attacked, but he would have found a unified Ansalon
> >waiting for him. And did he have that many brutes?
>
> The League of Nations didn't work in the real world, so I see it as even
> less likely in Ansalon. Unified Ansalon? I see the "UA" Security Council
> about as effective as the UN's.
UN can't do anything because the *real* bastards like America and China
have vetos, and protect the little bastards. Saddam only got stomped
because he encroached on another little bastard and scared a third. If
they could get the various factions trusting each other and working
together, it would be enough.
> >> >have we been reading the same books?
> >>
> >> Yes we have, and I don't recall any specific mention of Raistlin
> >> entertaining sexual thoughts toward his mother.
> >
> >"come home"
> My you're feeling frisky today. And that was Rosamun's line, not Raist's.
no, it was the gibbering mouther that showed up at Flint's prom
> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
> >you know how the SAS trains people to resist interrogation? In her
> >case, it's a matter of practising lying. Although it's not exactly a
> >Graduate Diploma course (me doing HR management?) the KoS could easily
> >get hold of a competent teacher.
>
> Who's to say the KoS didn't have a competent espionage teacher?
Linsha's incompetence
> Linsha's conscience was her problem, and she did convince the guys
> she was not a KoS. Some people go through training and break anyway.
Instead they thought she was a KoT. Still a stupid move. In her case,
she had such a fragile personality she shouldn't have been sent.
> And you wouldn't like HR management -- it's about defending the company
> from lawsuits.
I get to use my legal background?
> >> >> <The elves and dwarves have no reason to antagonize the KoS>
> >imo, Porthios went down because he gambled on Gunthar coughing up.
> Gunthar did what Porthios wanted and accepted the treaty. There's
> nothing else to cough up.
how about constructive proof that they're fixing things?
> >> A garrison against the KoT would have been better. How many modern
> >> nations would accept a rewrite of the constitution as a treaty guarantee?
> >
> >essentially it's like Australia trying to forge close ties with a
> >non-white country while supporting the White Australia policy. For
> >normal relations it just has to go.
>
> The elves and dwarves don't care about the Solamnic requirement because
> they don't consider joining a human order representing a specific nation to
> be especially prestigious. And the elves would not like to see their best
> warriors leave to join an alien army.
I didn't say that. I was talking about continuing a policy associated
strongly with the Bad Old Days while trying to cultivate them. Such a
practice is obviously inappropriate. It's like dedicating a wing on the
new US embassy in Iran to the Shah while on a state visit.
> >been a while since I read that bit, and I thought the problem was the
> >KoS involvement. They didn't want to ally with the KoS and were alarmed
> >at the prospect of humans in their turf, largely because of human
> >recalcitrance.
>
> The KoS agreed to the treaty. What Rashas and Konnal did not want was
> human involvement in elven affairs -- elves blame humans for everything that
> goes wrong on Krynn. And that was incidental to uniting the elven nations,
> which both saw as the real danger.
how did those two escape grenade enemas? Besides, the KoS needed to go
the extra mile for the treaty to succeed. It's like setting up a treaty
between Indonesia and East Timor and blaming the Timorese because only
they refused to sign.
> >> >> >> <Rohan's eternal damnation is to listen to the Uncle Trapspringer
> >Audio>
> >> You'd be forced to go through the braille version.
> >
> >what can I pull the trigger with the second time?
> This is beginning to sound like the "Black Knight" scene from Monty
> Python and the Holy Grail.
So I'll do it with an herring.
> >> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
> >> >did I mention Krynn has strict export policies on live specimens? Think
> >> >about the fur trade. They *really* don't want rival markets.
>
> >> That's why the playthings stay put, and he visits weekly. Avoids
> >> customs that way.
> >
> >seems to have a high-pitched voice lately, doesn't he?
>
> He's been having some sinus troubles, but everything else is in
> working order.
that's what you think
> >> >> >> >> >> <Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
>
> >> Why chopper? The reindeer should be able to outfly the supersonic.
> >
> >ever occur to you they might want a rest?
>
> They make a pitstop in Hawaii before going on to Asia.
so that's why the volcanoes are steaming?
> >> Santa as a pirate? "Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of Cider."
> >
> >where else does he get the toys?
>
> Workaholic elves.
are they reincarnated politicians or something? What the hell would
they be in it for?
> >> >> >> >> <Rohan's doing things with his hands.>
> >> Simon can always feed you.
> >
> >I don't want him around as a witness
>
> The room's already bugged. You really think he just wants to play
> Minesweeper?
I've been standing over his shoulder. Oh, sorry about the dance.
> >> >> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
> >> >tell that to the 'Yes' Case people here
> >>
> >> I would, if I knew who they were.
> >
> >according to a bunch of liars who rigged a poll, about 73%
>
> That still doesn't tell me who they are.
got an Aussie phone book handy?
> >> >> >> <12 hours of roleplaying and no food!>
>
> >I take along a 1.25 of Max in a coolant-filled sleeve, inside an
> >insulated bag with a polar bear on it.
>
> Isn't lugging about a polar bear hard on the shoulders?
this bear's a Quaal's Feather Token, cunningly disguised as a label.
> >> Modern democracy involves government by representation. You're sitting
> >> on the socialist side of the fence.
> >
> >I'm a liberal!
>
> Rulership by the proletariat is definitely socialist. Liberals believe in
> representative government.
I'd prefer it to be *actually* representative. Every 10-20 adults elect
one for a local council. Executive council is elected from them, and at
some level this elected body sends somebody to Parliament. Parties are
something we can do without.
> >> >> >> <The Werewolf game was suitably bloody and entertaining>
> >> Not being able to father potential lycanthropes is cruel.
> >
> >wrong character. And Detective "Sandman" Pondsmith got a new set.
> >Besides, I may be able to do this character as well.
>
> He got a new set? Share the technology with Spike and Bunsen.
we're talking 2020 here. And I charged him a couple thou.
> >> >> <Rohan picked Cyberpunk over studying>
> >I kinda know what I'm doing now. 3000 words by Friday 4.30.
>
> Unless of course you get sidetracked by another nude beach trip.
too cold. I'm currently obsessing with seeing the %^&*( disability
advisor so I can get her $%^&* signature in order to register my ongoing
condition with the same %^&* people I've been seeing for three %^&*
years. FYI I do written exams on a computer.
> >> >Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
> >> meow.
> >
> >Acquired. Locking on. Target locked. AMRAAMs armed. Firing.
>
> Missed, snookums. Now do your homework.
they're in orbit now. And I've got the 'terminal' button.
> >> >focussed on grievance
> >> >thumb back a Colt three five seven
> >> >work through some emotions
> >>
> >> You've got an extra syllable in line 2.
> >
> >so ditch Colt, "three five sev"?
>
> Can't do "one, two, three?" It works then.
never heard of a .123 Magnum, made by Colt or anybody.
> >thumb on razor edge
> >screaming flight of doe-eyed prey
> >bleeding head by hair
>
> No wonder Simon doesn't bring up double dating.
I restrict serial killing activities to going it alone.
Seen Ninja Resurrection, A Better Tomorrow, The Sopranos, Law of Desire?
hard edge slick whetstone
loading many clips of nine
ready to party
Rohan Tolstrup, Galactic Devastator, Eater of Souls, Lord of Entropy
Steve Miller
<< I understand Steevy also
wrote HoSt, which from what I've heard provides an unrealistic portrayal
of the KoS. >>
You understand incorrectly. (And that's "Steve," thank you very much.) You
should also stop taking other people's words for things and try reading the
material yourself.
<< Instead they thought she was a KoT. Still a stupid move. In her case,
she had such a fragile personality she shouldn't have been sent. >>
I think you need to read the story again. By going outside the hustle and
bustle of Saction, Linsha was getting in over her head. Her commanding officer
(whom she didn't talk to before heading out) would have most definately
forbidden her little excursion.
I can only assume that you've not been in any line of work with lots of
pressure. If you had been, you would understand that someone who seems like
they have everything down pat in theory might wobble the first time something
goes seriously wrong. Like Linsha did.
If it rather curious... you bitch about "superheroes" in DL, and you bitch
about human characters, too.
And it's not really Linsha's personality that's fragile. It's her desire to be
a KNIGHT that's too strong. And without that desire and the dedication to 2,000
years worth of tradition... well, then the Knights of Solamnia become the
Legion of Steel. And you wouldn't want that, now would you?
Steve Miller
<< I knew the story was working for me when I kept thinking how Tika would have
shaken some sense into Linsha about real honor - I had accepted Linsha as a
"real" Majere and not someone in the Fifth Age box. >>
Pretty neat. I hope that's because there are several Linsha story ideas that
have been kicking around since 1996, when I first started working on the DL
stuff. (It's looking like only the first third of them will make it into print,
though.)
<< It dawned on me that if
Linsha had taken easily to lying, there may have been more of Great Aunt Kit
than Grandpa Caramon in her. >>
Yep again. It seemed to me that she was raised in an environment where "truth"
and "right" and "wrong" and "honor" were on the minds of a lot of people, and
that signing up with the Knights would only have strengthened that. But then,
of course, she ends up in an assignment where "honor" and "duty" sometimes end
up in an appearance of conflict.
I'm glad she worked for some people. She's one of my personal favourites among
the contributions I've made to DL.
<< Come to think of it, Linsha's reaction has a slight parallel in Caramon's
first
battle in BiA, where Caramon was expecting a Camelot type fight and got
sickened by the gore. >>
Could be. There certainly was the same romance vs. reality undertone.
Tolstrup
>
> Altarielle wrote:
>
> << I knew the story was working for me when I kept thinking how Tika would have
> shaken some sense into Linsha about real honor - I had accepted Linsha as a
> "real" Majere and not someone in the Fifth Age box. >>
>
> Pretty neat. I hope that's because there are several Linsha story ideas that
> have been kicking around since 1996, when I first started working on the DL
> stuff. (It's looking like only the first third of them will make it into print,
> though.)
Linsha somehow survives and goes back to spy school? Linsha gets fired
and makes a living by pushing crack in Gwynned (the Raekel's Pit
community has to finance itself somehow)?
Yes, she seems human, and there is certainly plenty of Caramon and Usha
(and certainly not enough of Palin - he'd at least think about
implications) in her. However, where's Tika's practicality, Raistlin's
thorough planning (put his mind in her body and she would've been the
Dirty Harry of Sanction)? She makes a good KoS, but they've obviously
sent an idealist to do a spy's work.
> << It dawned on me that if
> Linsha had taken easily to lying, there may have been more of Great Aunt Kit
> than Grandpa Caramon in her. >>
>
> Yep again. It seemed to me that she was raised in an environment where "truth"
> and "right" and "wrong" and "honor" were on the minds of a lot of people, and
> that signing up with the Knights would only have strengthened that. But then,
> of course, she ends up in an assignment where "honor" and "duty" sometimes end
> up in an appearance of conflict.
her upbringing is understandable, and yes she makes sense - with the
exception of what the hell she's doing in Sanction. You want a job for
Dezra, this is perfect. I always preferred Dragonlance to Xanth.
> I'm glad she worked for some people. She's one of my personal favourites among
> the contributions I've made to DL.
so just have her make sense as a character
> << Come to think of it, Linsha's reaction has a slight parallel in Caramon's
> first
> battle in BiA, where Caramon was expecting a Camelot type fight and got
> sickened by the gore. >>
>
> Could be. There certainly was the same romance vs. reality undertone.
yep, although BiA had a delightful habit of turning Caramon into a
blithering idiot. Couldn't Kitiara at least have warned him that 'I
don't need training' is an invitation to be bastardised? Caramon at
least has the excuse of being essentially a 1st-level character. His
grand-daughter on the other hand is meant to be professionally trained.
Personally I can't help thinking of The Assignment, where a morally
normal man is quite good at impersonating Carlos the Jackal, however
he's really torn up *internally* and the shit hits the fan when he tries
to return to normal life. Similarly, I'd be more interested in Linsha
fully adopting her role - and then starting to lose her identity.
Well, whatever.
Rohan Tolstrup
Tolstrup
>
> Rohan Tolstrup wrote:
>
> << I understand Steevy also
> wrote HoSt, which from what I've heard provides an unrealistic portrayal
> of the KoS. >>
>
> should also stop taking other people's words for things and try reading the
> material yourself.
the KoS refuse to recruit commoners and won't use realistic tactics?
That's not 'good,' that's just stupid. They're meant to be the foremost
good organisation, and yet there's a conspiracy of slander to transfer
that mantle to the Legion of Steel.
> << Instead they thought she was a KoT. Still a stupid move. In her case,
> she had such a fragile personality she shouldn't have been sent. >>
>
> I think you need to read the story again. By going outside the hustle and
> bustle of Saction, Linsha was getting in over her head. Her commanding officer
> (whom she didn't talk to before heading out) would have most definately
> forbidden her little excursion.
and it never occurred to her that her cover story didn't explain her
prowess? Or that she hadn't actually done much to maintain cover? She
could at least roll a few scumbags. How hard can it be to find somebody
who deserves to be bashed up in Sanction? Isn't she able to tell if
somebody's been naughty?
> I can only assume that you've not been in any line of work with lots of
> pressure. If you had been, you would understand that someone who seems like
> they have everything down pat in theory might wobble the first time something
> goes seriously wrong. Like Linsha did.
I'm familiar with the phenomenon, although so far I'm a lifetime
dilettante (need to work 2 yrs to qualify for MBA so may change).
However, being a 'professional mugger' with no visible means of support
was beyond belief.
> If it rather curious... you bitch about "superheroes" in DL, and you bitch
> about human characters, too.
I draw distinctions. I consider character concept to be the basis for
what is reasonable. Dhamon is totally unbelievable because as a former
KoT he's somehow much tougher than KoT who are still benefiting from an
extremely high standard of training. Likewise Rig - a serving Knight
should be the Krynnish equivalent of the S.A.S. Similarly, Dezra simply
has no reasonable explanation for her own prowess. Linsha on the other
hand is meant to be a professional undercover operative, and therefore I
consider it reasonable to expect her at least to be competent at
maintaining her cover - which she clearly isn't. Reality isn't a Bond
movie, and if you want to convince people you're a thug, then it's
necessary to have a cover that stands up to scrutiny.
> And it's not really Linsha's personality that's fragile. It's her desire to be
> a KNIGHT that's too strong. And without that desire and the dedication to 2,000
> years worth of tradition... well, then the Knights of Solamnia become the
> Legion of Steel. And you wouldn't want that, now would you?
two thousand years worth of missing the point? What would happen if
Sturm discussed honour with a Harper? The revised Measure should be
about promoting good in the most efficient manner, not strictly defining
honour as strapping on a tin can and charging through dragon breath.
The Legion of Steel is a redundant organisation different from the way
the 5A KoS realistically would be only in certain secondary aspects.
Rohan Tolstrup
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
>> <Arranged marriages are still the norm in some cultures>
>no system's perfect, and sounds like the marital equivalent of
>communism: doesn't take into account humans.
Depends on where you are and how you're raised. My buddy turned
down an arranged marriage with no reprecussions, and my former boss
thought her arranged marriage was the most natural thing in the world
>> >> Slap yourself on the other side of the face now for even suggesting
>> >bestiality.
>> >you started it
>> :-P
>
> |
>+====|-----------------.
> | __;_
>
If this is what I think it is, then you owe me an apology or this is the last
time we discuss anything together on this newsgroup.
>> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>> Souls can be evil or good, so what happens when they can't reach
>> consensus? A magic drought lasting 1,000 years?
>
>that's why I envision more than one of these. At least Good Neutral and
>Evil gestalts, and possibly others (or maybe committees).
Committees? Magic controlled via the Mt Nevermind bureaucracy model?
Committees takes centuries to get things done.
>
>> <Tak might object to someone overthrowing Ariakas underhandedly>
>> Since when does fair count with Tak? To her, if Ariakas get deposed for
>> whatever reason, then he didn't deserve to be head of the dragonarmies.
>
>she'd want a competent replacement for him, not some Akar Kessell.
Anyone who manages to remove Ariakas and remain alive has got to be
a cut above the ordinary. This isn't the same as Kronin bumping off Toede.
>
>> <you don't hang around nude beaches much, do you?>
>> >> The real reason you haven't finished your homework surfaces.
>> >
>> >I'd freeze
>>
>> But you'd get an eyeful doing it.
>
>no I wouldn't. Aussies aren't stupid.
Never said they were.
>
>> >> >> <Rohan's shooting the pretty boys again.>
>> >> >> >This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
>> >> >> Make it Dark Heart and I'll believe you.
>>
>> >haven't got it on hand. Dark Queen, Kendermore or Eve of the Maelstrom.
>>
>> Won't believe you then.
>
>Dragon #243 then
Whatever.
>
>> <The Senate ignores your rights if you have no graft money>
>> There is no shortage of groups willing to represent you for free if you
>> lose your rights. ACLU, anybody?
>
>and they can get the same legislative access as Wall St?
Of course. Paula Jones, for example, wasn't rolling in the dough.
>> >> <Why would I want to shoot Raistlin?>
>> >he can at least retire. Too many bloody sequels, prequels and what ifs.
>> It was sort of like watching Ted Williams at the Baseball Team of the
>> Century ceremony -- you never get tired of seeing the great ones.
>
>except for when they're cheapened by DoSF and Soulforge
>
<If the Measure were fixed after the WotL, the KoS would be more
credible and guerilla tactics may have been embraced.>
>>
>> The Measure, even after it was rewritten, did not change that much. This
>> is a big "if." Look at Linsha's reticence to go undercover.
>
>I'm inclined to include a huge grain of salt. I understand Steevy also
>wrote HoSt, which from what I've heard provides an unrealistic portrayal
>of the KoS. As far as I'm concerned, if the KoS are serious about the
>Oath, then they will do whatever is necessary to most efficiently uphold
>it. This means open-door recruitment and clandestine operations.
The KoS will do whatever is necessary that doesn't involve compromising
their beliefs. The KoS are field soldiers for the most part and to think that
all of them are going to become expert at covert operations is unrealistic.
As far as open-door recruitment is concerned, that came later when the
KoS had safely regained their footing after the WotL. And the KoS
doesn't have to accept every scrub off the street -- there are regular armies
for that. It should remain an organization to aspire to. That motley crew
Gunthar had in the Rose and the Skull was disgusting.
>Linsha is increasingly looking like a stupid woman who signed up because
>of her supposed Heroic Legacy and not because she had thought about what
>she was doing and the implications in a world where set-piece battles
>between armies are tactically foolish.
Linsha wanting to sign up because she wanted to follow the family legacy
of being a do-gooder isn't foolish -- it just shows that she takes after Palin.
And Linsha's still looking to define what her own personal moral code is
in Odyssey, because the abandonment of Paladine still has her in flux.
>
> In a situation where the KoS are being wrongfully portayed as idiotic
>marble pillars, while the Legion of Steel is consistently shown in a
favourable
>light, what else am I supposed to think?
KoS is still rigid, but the LoS in comparison technically has no "Measure"
equivalent. And the bad thing about that is that it is perfectly okay for a
legionnaire to knife an opponent in the back if this is for the common good.
That's a big difference that really hasn't been highlighted enough in the
books, and it's the kind of thing that a KoS should never do.
>
>> If the glamour of Sturm's death didn't lure them in, a revised Measure
>> wasn't going to do it. In fact, not opening the doors sooner points to
>> the fact that young Solamnics must have flocked to join the KoS, since
>> there was no immediate need to launch into a recruitment campaign.
>
>yes. But how many non-Solamnics took them seriously?
All sovereign good aligned nations did. That's why the KoS were in the
treaty negotiations.
>I take issue with them being the first non-Solamnics; they've been
>letting in half-elves from Day One, and the KoS aren't meant to be
>specifically state-sponsored. How many local non-Solamnic lords
>would have trusted this incompetent organisation with their kids?
The lords who wanted their kids to learn military discipline would
have jumped at the chance to put them into the KoS. If the KoS
becomes like any other army and loses sight of what it means to
be an honorable knighthood, it might be a different story.
And they're Knights of Solamnia, not Knights of Paladine. Their
first obligation is to Solamnia.
>
>> Having access to a KoS brigade might have been appreciated by Porthios,
>> but it would have been presented by Rashas and Konnal as an attempt
>> to dilute elven strength by introducing foreign elements.
>
>how successfully? Their main plank would have been that Porthios was
>selling out only for personal gain. It could have been made quite clear
>that the KoS were present to help, and under elven command.
Konnal's big argument was that Porthios was sullying Silvanesti purity --
how more so than to introduce KoS into elven territory? And Rashas
had problems with the armies being mixed Silvanesti/Qualinesti.
>
<If Gunthar instituted the Marshall Plan, elves and dwarves would have been
in the High Clerists tower>
>> Didn't the Puppet King state that Tanis had already secured the Knights'
>> approval for the treaty? And the main reason the treaty was kept from
>> Rashas and Konnal was because they would have stirred up the old
>> Silvanesti-Qualinesti feud?
>
>distrust of the KoS makes more sense. The two have never fought.
But what was clearly stated was that it was the Silvanesti-Qualinesti
feud that the major obstacle, with no reference to the KoS. Silvanesti and
Qualinesti leaders don't have to meet to carry on a feud -- look at the hill
and mountain dwarves.
>
>> Both the elven and dwarven nations would not enter the war until they
>> were absolutely certain that the KoT would come after them.
>
>largely because the humans had done nothing to make them want to join.
And the elves and dwarves had done nothing to incite the KoS to please
them at all costs. The KoS should not have the burden of babying the other
nations of Krynn into doing what is right.
>
>> The League of Nations didn't work in the real world, so I see it as even
>> less likely in Ansalon. Unified Ansalon? I see the "UA" Security Council
>> about as effective as the UN's.
>
>UN can't do anything because the *real* bastards like America and China
>have vetos, and protect the little bastards. Saddam only got stomped
>because he encroached on another little bastard and scared a third. If
>they could get the various factions trusting each other and working
>together, it would be enough.
Replace America and China with the Elves and Dwarves and it's the
same thing. Nations will always safeguard their interests first, whether
they do it nicely or cruelly. Look at the Dwarfgate war. Thorbardin had
to be shut down not because Duncan didn't want to help the hill dwarves,
but because his own people were starving.
>> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>> Who's to say the KoS didn't have a competent espionage teacher?
>
>Linsha's incompetence
Inexperience and incompetence are two different things. Sending a
star pupil on a stretch mission is the way of the world.
>
>> Linsha's conscience was her problem, and she did convince the guys
>> she was not a KoS. Some people go through training and break anyway.
>
>Instead they thought she was a KoT. Still a stupid move. In her case,
>she had such a fragile personality she shouldn't have been sent.
Again, it's not fragility -- that would have been the case if she broke
character completely and abandoned her mission. Going from student
to supersoldier in a heartbeat only happens in the movies.
>
>> And you wouldn't like HR management -- it's about defending the company
>> from lawsuits.
>
>I get to use my legal background?
No -- you get to bury legitimate cases of fraud, harrassment, and
embezzlement if the injured party can't prove misconduct.
>
>> >> >> <The elves and dwarves have no reason to antagonize the KoS>
>> >imo, Porthios went down because he gambled on Gunthar coughing up.
>> Gunthar did what Porthios wanted and accepted the treaty. There's
>> nothing else to cough up.
>
>how about constructive proof that they're fixing things?
The increase in recruits and acceptance of the treaty is all the proof
they need that the KoS is still a viable ally. How the KoS manages
its military force is moot, as long as the KoS comes when called.
>I didn't say that. I was talking about continuing a policy associated
>strongly with the Bad Old Days while trying to cultivate them. Such a
>practice is obviously inappropriate. It's like dedicating a wing on the
>new US embassy in Iran to the Shah while on a state visit.
The Bad Old Days? The KoS were derided for believing in Paladine
and upholding his traditions, and lo and behold, Paladine came back
and the KoS were right all along. There's no negative connotation to
the Measure in that respect.
>> The KoS agreed to the treaty. What Rashas and Konnal did not want
>> was human involvement in elven affairs -- elves blame humans for everything
>> that goes wrong on Krynn. And that was incidental to uniting the elven
nations,
>> which both saw as the real danger.
>
>how did those two escape grenade enemas? Besides, the KoS needed to go
>the extra mile for the treaty to succeed. It's like setting up a treaty
>between Indonesia and East Timor and blaming the Timorese because only
>they refused to sign.
The analogy fails because the equivalent of E. Timor and Indonesia are
Silvanesti and Qualinesti. The treaty never about the KoS uniting with
the elves. The KoS were asked for approval to ensure that the KoS
recognized the sovereignty of the new nation formed by the treaty.
And the KoS has absolutely no obligation to go the extra mile for what
is very much a muddy elven state of affairs.
>
>> >> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
>> >seems to have a high-pitched voice lately, doesn't he?
>>
>> He's been having some sinus troubles, but everything else is in
>> working order.
>
>that's what you think
It's what I know.
>
<Santa's covert operations are even better than Area 51's.>
>>
>> >> Santa as a pirate? "Yo Ho Ho and a bottle of Cider."
>> >
>> >where else does he get the toys?
>>
>> Workaholic elves.
>
>are they reincarnated politicians or something? What the hell would
>they be in it for?
They're trusting each other and working together and it's enough. The
Knights of the North Pole must have their act together.
>
>> >> >> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
>> That still doesn't tell me who they are.
>
>got an Aussie phone book handy?
No, I have enough doorstops.
>> Rulership by the proletariat is definitely socialist. Liberals believe in
>> representative government.
>
>I'd prefer it to be *actually* representative. Every 10-20 adults elect
>one for a local council. Executive council is elected from them, and at
>some level this elected body sends somebody to Parliament. Parties are
>something we can do without.
Unrealistic, unless you're talking a nation with a population of 300 people.
>> >thumb on razor edge
>> >screaming flight of doe-eyed prey
>> >bleeding head by hair
>>
>> No wonder Simon doesn't bring up double dating.
>
>I restrict serial killing activities to going it alone.
Simon's quite the lucky boy then.
>
>Seen Ninja Resurrection, A Better Tomorrow, The Sopranos, Law of Desire?
No.
Altarielle
nue...@aol.comDELETEIT (Steve Miller) writes:
>Pretty neat. I hope that's because there are several Linsha story ideas that
>have been kicking around since 1996, when I first started working on the DL
>stuff. (It's looking like only the first third of them will make it into
>print, though.)
First third? Are there more stories about Linsha due to be printed, or have I
missed something? Or is this a reference to history within the game
products?
Steve Miller
<< First third? Are there more stories about Linsha due to be printed, or have
I
missed something? Or is this a reference to history within the game
products? >>
No... it's a reference to the future developments/storylines I have in my head
involving Linsha.
"The Odyssey of Gilthanas," "Citadel of Light" and one additional project
featuring Linsha that is still under wraps will cover what amounts to the first
third of what I had in mind for her... basically, the tale of her life
experiences catching up with her training/ideals, and her getting over the
conflict she keeps creating for herself over honor vs. duty.
Since I'm pretty much off DL, the remaining 2/3rds of what I had in mind for
her will pretty much stay right where it is.
Judy Harrison
> In article <3816A1...@c032.aone.net.au>, Tolstrup
> <Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
> >
> > |
> >+====|-----------------.
> > | __;_
> >
> If this is what I think it is,
Uh, it kinda looks like a sword to me. The semicolon underneath looks like a
little bit of blood dripping off of it or something.
I think this is like those inkblot pictures where some people see flowers, others
see demonic aliens, etc.
When you first looked at it, what did YOU see?
A sword-like weapon or the erect genitalia of a male porno star?
Don't be shy now.
R.H.
Tolstrup
> >no system's perfect, and sounds like the marital equivalent of
> >communism: doesn't take into account humans.
>
> Depends on where you are and how you're raised. My buddy turned
> down an arranged marriage with no reprecussions, and my former boss
> thought her arranged marriage was the most natural thing in the world
so long as it's a free choice with plenty of support...
> >> >> Slap yourself on the other side of the face now for even suggesting
> >> >bestiality.
> >> >you started it
> >> :-P
> >
> > |
> >+====|-----------------.
> > | __;_
> >
> If this is what I think it is, then you owe me an apology or this is the last
> time we discuss anything together on this newsgroup.
it's a dagger!
Time to go and dig up Freud's ass for kicking purposes.
> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
> >> Souls can be evil or good, so what happens when they can't reach
> >> consensus? A magic drought lasting 1,000 years?
> >
> >that's why I envision more than one of these. At least Good Neutral and
> >Evil gestalts, and possibly others (or maybe committees).
> Committees? Magic controlled via the Mt Nevermind bureaucracy model?
> Committees takes centuries to get things done.
it's possible to have a happy medium. You just have a committee for
each important area, roughly speaking the portfolios of the old gods.
> >> <Tak might object to someone overthrowing Ariakas underhandedly>
> >> Since when does fair count with Tak? To her, if Ariakas get deposed for
> >> whatever reason, then he didn't deserve to be head of the dragonarmies.
> >
> >she'd want a competent replacement for him, not some Akar Kessell.
>
> Anyone who manages to remove Ariakas and remain alive has got to be
> a cut above the ordinary. This isn't the same as Kronin bumping off Toede.
could be dumb luck, and she needs a general
> >> <you don't hang around nude beaches much, do you?>
> >> >> The real reason you haven't finished your homework surfaces.
> >> >
> >> >I'd freeze
> >>
> >> But you'd get an eyeful doing it.
> >
> >no I wouldn't. Aussies aren't stupid.
>
> Never said they were.
then why are you suggesting I go to watch possibly naked seagulls?
> >> >> >> <Rohan's shooting the pretty boys again.>
> >> >> >> >This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
> >> >> >> Make it Dark Heart and I'll believe you.
> >>
> >> >haven't got it on hand. Dark Queen, Kendermore or Eve of the Maelstrom.
> >>
> >> Won't believe you then.
> >
> >Dragon #243 then
>
> Whatever.
I can't find Dark Heart. How about this Freud book?
> >> <The Senate ignores your rights if you have no graft money>
> >> There is no shortage of groups willing to represent you for free if you
> >> lose your rights. ACLU, anybody?
> >
> >and they can get the same legislative access as Wall St?
>
> Of course. Paula Jones, for example, wasn't rolling in the dough.
The Republicans and whoever else wanted to damage Clinton were.
> <If the Measure were fixed after the WotL, the KoS would be more
> credible and guerilla tactics may have been embraced.>
> >>
> >> The Measure, even after it was rewritten, did not change that much. This
> >> is a big "if." Look at Linsha's reticence to go undercover.
> >
> >I'm inclined to include a huge grain of salt. I understand Steevy also
> >wrote HoSt, which from what I've heard provides an unrealistic portrayal
> >of the KoS. As far as I'm concerned, if the KoS are serious about the
> >Oath, then they will do whatever is necessary to most efficiently uphold
> >it. This means open-door recruitment and clandestine operations.
>
> The KoS will do whatever is necessary that doesn't involve compromising
> their beliefs. The KoS are field soldiers for the most part and to think that
> all of them are going to become expert at covert operations is unrealistic.
Adapt or die. Not *all* of them, but if they're going to send a spy the
spy should be properly trained. When they were founded it was actually
a good idea to openly exist as a large group and wave a banner saying
'I'm a threat to yo' ass!' Now that's just dumb.
> As far as open-door recruitment is concerned, that came later when the
> KoS had safely regained their footing after the WotL. And the KoS
> doesn't have to accept every scrub off the street -- there are regular armies
> for that. It should remain an organization to aspire to. That motley crew
> Gunthar had in the Rose and the Skull was disgusting.
who's going to join in the Fifth Age? I agree that a place must be
earned, however there shouldn't be artificial requirements such as
coming from the right family.
> >Linsha is increasingly looking like a stupid woman who signed up because
> >of her supposed Heroic Legacy and not because she had thought about what
> >she was doing and the implications in a world where set-piece battles
> >between armies are tactically foolish.
>
> Linsha wanting to sign up because she wanted to follow the family legacy
> of being a do-gooder isn't foolish -- it just shows that she takes after Palin.
> And Linsha's still looking to define what her own personal moral code is
> in Odyssey, because the abandonment of Paladine still has her in flux.
"Do the right thing" isn't a hard start. But she should have
psychologically prepared herself beforehand, and actually mugged a few
streetscum to establish her cover. And the family legacy is artificial:
both Caramon and Palin were dragged into it by circumstance, and both
wanted to lead normal lives.
> > In a situation where the KoS are being wrongfully portayed as idiotic
> >marble pillars, while the Legion of Steel is consistently shown in a
> favourable
> >light, what else am I supposed to think?
>
> KoS is still rigid, but the LoS in comparison technically has no "Measure"
> equivalent. And the bad thing about that is that it is perfectly okay for a
> legionnaire to knife an opponent in the back if this is for the common good.
> That's a big difference that really hasn't been highlighted enough in the
> books, and it's the kind of thing that a KoS should never do.
What is this, a '30s Western? The only reason I can think of for not
backstabbing would be to give him a chance to surrender. What kind of
an idiot is more interested in a 'fair fight' than doing the job? Here
we've got a prime example of letting peripheral matters take over from
the main point. Yes a KoS would try to avoid unnecessary bloodshed.
However, if somebody's got to die it doesn't matter how. Of course, a
KoS would only do so in extreme circumstances, like if this guard raises
the alarm an innocent dies. Perhaps a Legionnaire would be more
cold-blooded about it.
> >> If the glamour of Sturm's death didn't lure them in, a revised Measure
> >> wasn't going to do it. In fact, not opening the doors sooner points to
> >> the fact that young Solamnics must have flocked to join the KoS, since
> >> there was no immediate need to launch into a recruitment campaign.
> >
> >yes. But how many non-Solamnics took them seriously?
>
> All sovereign good aligned nations did. That's why the KoS were in the
> treaty negotiations.
they were also the most powerful country...
> >I take issue with them being the first non-Solamnics; they've been
> >letting in half-elves from Day One, and the KoS aren't meant to be
> >specifically state-sponsored. How many local non-Solamnic lords
> >would have trusted this incompetent organisation with their kids?
>
> The lords who wanted their kids to learn military discipline would
> have jumped at the chance to put them into the KoS. If the KoS
> becomes like any other army and loses sight of what it means to
> be an honorable knighthood, it might be a different story.
They've already lost sight. The first rule is that you should know when
to break the rules.
> And they're Knights of Solamnia, not Knights of Paladine. Their
> first obligation is to Solamnia.
it's confusing, and they're currently meant to be an independent
knighthood which doesn't actually rule Solamnia.
> >> Having access to a KoS brigade might have been appreciated by Porthios,
> >> but it would have been presented by Rashas and Konnal as an attempt
> >> to dilute elven strength by introducing foreign elements.
> >
> >how successfully? Their main plank would have been that Porthios was
> >selling out only for personal gain. It could have been made quite clear
> >that the KoS were present to help, and under elven command.
>
> Konnal's big argument was that Porthios was sullying Silvanesti purity --
> how more so than to introduce KoS into elven territory? And Rashas
> had problems with the armies being mixed Silvanesti/Qualinesti.
sensitive issue, but certainly the KoS could give significant logistical
help if nothing else.
> <If Gunthar instituted the Marshall Plan, elves and dwarves would have been
> in the High Clerists tower>
> >> Didn't the Puppet King state that Tanis had already secured the Knights'
> >> approval for the treaty? And the main reason the treaty was kept from
> >> Rashas and Konnal was because they would have stirred up the old
> >> Silvanesti-Qualinesti feud?
> >
> >distrust of the KoS makes more sense. The two have never fought.
>
> But what was clearly stated was that it was the Silvanesti-Qualinesti
> feud that the major obstacle, with no reference to the KoS. Silvanesti and
> Qualinesti leaders don't have to meet to carry on a feud -- look at the hill
> and mountain dwarves.
Which one makes more sense? Winter Night says they maintained contact,
and both Tanis and Gilthanas recognised Alhana's specific accent.
> >> Both the elven and dwarven nations would not enter the war until they
> >> were absolutely certain that the KoT would come after them.
> >
> >largely because the humans had done nothing to make them want to join.
>
> And the elves and dwarves had done nothing to incite the KoS to please
> them at all costs. The KoS should not have the burden of babying the other
> nations of Krynn into doing what is right.
It's a Big Picture thing. Alliances to the south means more troops for
the north. And they essentially have the duty to lead allied forces
against outside invasion.
> >> The League of Nations didn't work in the real world, so I see it as even
> >> less likely in Ansalon. Unified Ansalon? I see the "UA" Security Council
> >> about as effective as the UN's.
> >
> >UN can't do anything because the *real* bastards like America and China
> >have vetos, and protect the little bastards. Saddam only got stomped
> >because he encroached on another little bastard and scared a third. If
> >they could get the various factions trusting each other and working
> >together, it would be enough.
>
> Replace America and China with the Elves and Dwarves and it's the
> same thing. Nations will always safeguard their interests first, whether
> they do it nicely or cruelly. Look at the Dwarfgate war. Thorbardin had
> to be shut down not because Duncan didn't want to help the hill dwarves,
> but because his own people were starving.
the treaty would at least have broken the ice a little. It would have
become obvious that the KoT weren't going to stop at Palanthas.
> >> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
> >> Who's to say the KoS didn't have a competent espionage teacher?
> >
> >Linsha's incompetence
>
> Inexperience and incompetence are two different things. Sending a
> star pupil on a stretch mission is the way of the world.
I still can't believe she didn't think anybody would investigate her.
> >> Linsha's conscience was her problem, and she did convince the guys
> >> she was not a KoS. Some people go through training and break anyway.
> >
> >Instead they thought she was a KoT. Still a stupid move. In her case,
> >she had such a fragile personality she shouldn't have been sent.
>
> Again, it's not fragility -- that would have been the case if she broke
> character completely and abandoned her mission. Going from student
> to supersoldier in a heartbeat only happens in the movies.
Understandable, but the normal technique is to stick heads in butcher's
offal, beat the crap out of them and deprive them of sleep in order to
maintain cover. Something as elementary as 'support your cover' should
not be hard to remember.
> >> And you wouldn't like HR management -- it's about defending the company
> >> from lawsuits.
> >
> >I get to use my legal background?
>
> No -- you get to bury legitimate cases of fraud, harrassment, and
> embezzlement if the injured party can't prove misconduct.
sounds nice. Graduate Diploma of Business Administration? Puts me in
line for an MBA if I can work for two years.
> >> >> >> <The elves and dwarves have no reason to antagonize the KoS>
> >> >imo, Porthios went down because he gambled on Gunthar coughing up.
> >> Gunthar did what Porthios wanted and accepted the treaty. There's
> >> nothing else to cough up.
> >
> >how about constructive proof that they're fixing things?
>
> The increase in recruits and acceptance of the treaty is all the proof
> they need that the KoS is still a viable ally. How the KoS manages
> its military force is moot, as long as the KoS comes when called.
Elves aren't interested in NOW, they're interested in the long term.
Gunthar's behaviour indicates they're not viable as long-term allies.
> >I didn't say that. I was talking about continuing a policy associated
> >strongly with the Bad Old Days while trying to cultivate them. Such a
> >practice is obviously inappropriate. It's like dedicating a wing on the
> >new US embassy in Iran to the Shah while on a state visit.
>
> The Bad Old Days? The KoS were derided for believing in Paladine
> and upholding his traditions, and lo and behold, Paladine came back
> and the KoS were right all along. There's no negative connotation to
> the Measure in that respect.
the bastardised version is inextricably linked to Crownguard et al. Mr
'Let's kill us some elves' himself.
> >> The KoS agreed to the treaty. What Rashas and Konnal did not want
> >> was human involvement in elven affairs -- elves blame humans for everything
> >> that goes wrong on Krynn. And that was incidental to uniting the elven
> nations,
> >> which both saw as the real danger.
> >
> >how did those two escape grenade enemas? Besides, the KoS needed to go
> >the extra mile for the treaty to succeed. It's like setting up a treaty
> >between Indonesia and East Timor and blaming the Timorese because only
> >they refused to sign.
>
> The analogy fails because the equivalent of E. Timor and Indonesia are
> Silvanesti and Qualinesti. The treaty never about the KoS uniting with
> the elves. The KoS were asked for approval to ensure that the KoS
> recognized the sovereignty of the new nation formed by the treaty.
So I couldn't think of a better example of political hypocrisy.
> And the KoS has absolutely no obligation to go the extra mile for what
> is very much a muddy elven state of affairs.
they do however want an alliance with the elves, which is their duty to
their successors.
> >> >> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
>
> >> >seems to have a high-pitched voice lately, doesn't he?
> >>
> >> He's been having some sinus troubles, but everything else is in
> >> working order.
> >
> >that's what you think
>
> It's what I know.
First DL underwear and now this. Eww. Don't ask him to pinch you.
<Satan gets toys from where?>
> >> Workaholic elves.
> >
> >are they reincarnated politicians or something? What the hell would
> >they be in it for?
> They're trusting each other and working together and it's enough. The
> Knights of the North Pole must have their act together.
better keep that quiet
> >> >> >> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
> >> That still doesn't tell me who they are.
> >
> >got an Aussie phone book handy?
>
> No, I have enough doorstops.
Basically it seems every second public figure has come out in support of
the Republic push. Actually, vote's next Saturday. I'm voting No and I
just had a letter published explaining why.
> >> Rulership by the proletariat is definitely socialist. Liberals believe in
> >> representative government.
> >
> >I'd prefer it to be *actually* representative. Every 10-20 adults elect
> >one for a local council. Executive council is elected from them, and at
> >some level this elected body sends somebody to Parliament. Parties are
> >something we can do without.
>
> Unrealistic, unless you're talking a nation with a population of 300 people.
Oh, we're obviously incorporating a few levels of filtration. With
about 70k people in a federal electorate, we're talking about three or
four strata. Probably the 'electorate council' is made up of
representatives from local councils. The advantage is it removes the
parties and megabucks from the equation.
> >I restrict serial killing activities to going it alone.
>
> Simon's quite the lucky boy then.
> >Seen Ninja Resurrection, A Better Tomorrow, The Sopranos, Law of Desire?
>
> No.
Well, Better Tomorrow was the first time Chow Yun Fat and John Woo
worked together, and the sequel (with the original character's living
twin brother) was even better, with just about the bloodiest shootout
I've ever seen. There was actually a story there, about redemption.
Somewhat Legends only with men who dump empty guns instead of clips.
Back to the !@#$%^&*())_*()_*()*(^&*( CENSORED essay. Of course, I just
spent an hour on this....
Heh heh heh. Remembrance of the Daleks tonite. And Sword Rides Again.
Rohan "Choda Boy" Tolstrup
Sumptuous pork feast
Planting a fragile red rose
Box of Black Magic
jado...@viaccess.net
Judy Harrison wrote:
> When you first looked at it, what did YOU see?
> A sword-like weapon or the erect genitalia of a male porno star?
> Don't be shy now.
>
> R.H.
I really don't have anything constructive to say, but in both cases size DOES matter
V spaz V
Judy Harrison <typ...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:3817E6E9...@flash.net...
> Altarielle wrote:
>
> > In article <3816A1...@c032.aone.net.au>, Tolstrup
> > <Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
> > >
> > > |
> > >+====|-----------------.
> > > | __;_
> > >
> > If this is what I think it is,
>
like a
> little bit of blood dripping off of it or something.
> I think this is like those inkblot pictures where some people see flowers,
others
> see demonic aliens, etc.
> A sword-like weapon or the erect genitalia of a male porno star?
> Don't be shy now.
>
> R.H.
rm...@mindspring.com
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> wrote:
>What the hell was she doing in Sanction if she'd obviously never had
>proper undercover training? She made numerous severe mistakes, and like
>I said wasn't even able to convince an elf that she was racist. I've
>seen better undercover work on television.
>
>Rohan Tolstrup
Valid points. In trying to make characters more "interesting and
complex" a certain amount of logic was lost. Any spy/covert operative
knows the basic rules. Her sheer incompetence is mind-boggling.
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<What the hell was that picture supposed to be?>
>
>it's a dagger!
All right, I believe you.
>
>Time to go and dig up Freud's ass for kicking purposes.
He didn't draw the very ambiguous picture in question.
>
>> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>it's possible to have a happy medium. You just have a committee for
>each important area, roughly speaking the portfolios of the old gods.
If each committee has 3 members, then you're talking 63 entities messing
with Krynn vs the 21 it had pre-Chaos War.
>
>> >> <Tak might object to someone overthrowing Ariakas underhandedly>
>could be dumb luck, and she needs a general
It would have to be someone incredibly lucky indeed, since it took a crafty
guy like Raistlin a considerable amount of planning to pull it off.
>> >> <you don't hang around nude beaches much, do you?>
>then why are you suggesting I go to watch possibly naked seagulls?
Why did you bring up nude beaches to begin with?
>
>> >> >> >> <Rohan's shooting the pretty boys again.>
>> >> >> >> >This I swear on my copy of Soulforge.
>> >> >> >> Make it Dark Heart and I'll believe you.
>> >>
>> >> >haven't got it on hand. Dark Queen, Kendermore or Eve of the
>Maelstrom.
>> Whatever.
>
>I can't find Dark Heart. How about this Freud book?
Freud is open to far too many interpretations.
>
>> >> <The Senate ignores your rights if you have no graft money>
<The ACLU protects anyone for free>
>> >and they can get the same legislative access as Wall St?
>>
>> Of course. Paula Jones, for example, wasn't rolling in the dough.
>
>The Republicans and whoever else wanted to damage Clinton were.
Then there's the very recent case of the Klan in NYC. The city denied
them the right to march, and the ACLU got that reversed.
>> The KoS will do whatever is necessary that doesn't involve compromising
>> their beliefs. The KoS are field soldiers for the most part and to think
>that all of them are going to become expert at covert operations is
unrealistic.
>
>Adapt or die. Not *all* of them, but if they're going to send a spy the
>spy should be properly trained. When they were founded it was actually
>a good idea to openly exist as a large group and wave a banner saying
>'I'm a threat to yo' ass!' Now that's just dumb.
The bulk of the KoS has to exist openly as a symbol of hope and a base of
operations for other good aligned nations. Kang's negotiations with the KoS
would not be happening if he thought the KoS were "dead" or powerless.
And spies learn on the job, like everyone else. Linsha made a bad mistake
trusting her instincts that she wasn't going to make again. An assumption
is being made that spies will operate flawlessly on their first assignment due
to training alone, and that's not the case -- you just don't hear about the
many who fail because they're dead.
>who's going to join in the Fifth Age?
A large pack of non-Solamnic ruffians, per The Rose and the Skull.
>I agree that a place must be earned, however there shouldn't be artificial
>requirements such as coming from the right family.
The male Solamnic requirement was already gone before Gunthar died,
and Liam seemed ready to let in the non-humans, per his invitation to
Valian.
>
<Linsha joined the KoS because of the Majere heroic legacy>
>
>"Do the right thing" isn't a hard start.
It wasn't "do the right thing" that was Linsha's problem, it was how to do
the right thing. And that's a typical KoS dilemma.
>But she should have psychologically prepared herself beforehand, and
>actually mugged a few streetscum to establish her cover.
Linsha did prepare beforehand, by unobtrusively introducing herself into
Sanction's low society. Picking who to mug takes time and might have
had unforeseen circumstances, like making her a target for retribution.
>And the family legacy is artificial: both Caramon and Palin were dragged
>into it by circumstance, and both wanted to lead normal lives.
I question Palin's sincere desire to lead a normal life, when his idol was
his uncle Raistlin. Caramon when young yearned for a life of adventure
as a do-gooder general -- it's in Legends as well as BiA.
>
<The moral ambiguity of the LoS should not be emulated by the KoS>
>
>What is this, a '30s Western? The only reason I can think of for not
>backstabbing would be to give him a chance to surrender. What kind of
>an idiot is more interested in a 'fair fight' than doing the job?
It has nothing to do with fair or unfair -- it's all about doing what's right
in
the most humane way possible. We're not talking whether a KoS should
take the time to salute before a fight. It's a lazy coward's way out to use
backstab for all situations without considering that there may be other
options. The point is that being good takes effort, and the KoS should
never go for an easy kill.
> Here we've got a prime example of letting peripheral matters take over
>from the main point. Yes a KoS would try to avoid unnecessary bloodshed.
>However, if somebody's got to die it doesn't matter how.
Of course it matters how. Allowing someone to be burned alive when you
could stab him through the heart would be an unallowable alternative to a
KoS. A legionnaire can choose either method and not be at odds with
his beliefs.
>Of course, a KoS would only do so in extreme circumstances, like if this
>guard raises the alarm an innocent dies. Perhaps a Legionnaire would be
>more cold-blooded about it.
Exactly. A KoS would knock him unconscious, a Legionnaire would kill
him to be certain he didn't cry out. That makes the organizations different
and it's a difference that should remain.
>
>> >yes. But how many non-Solamnics took them seriously?
>>
>> All sovereign good aligned nations did. That's why the KoS were in the
>> treaty negotiations.
>
>they were also the most powerful country...
And the most powerful nation is always taken seriously. Thanks for
proving that point.
>
>They've already lost sight. The first rule is that you should know when
>to break the rules.
You should know when and HOW and WHY to break the rules. Breaking
the rules when convenient makes the KoS no better than an outlaw band.
>
>> And they're Knights of Solamnia, not Knights of Paladine. Their
>> first obligation is to Solamnia.
>
>it's confusing, and they're currently meant to be an independent
>knighthood which doesn't actually rule Solamnia.
Ddin't say they ruled Solamnia, but that their first obligation is to the
nation that provides them with their base of operations.
>
>> Konnal's big argument was that Porthios was sullying Silvanesti purity --
>> how more so than to introduce KoS into elven territory? And Rashas
>> had problems with the armies being mixed Silvanesti/Qualinesti.
>
>sensitive issue, but certainly the KoS could give significant logistical
>help if nothing else.
Never said the KoS wouldn't be useful militarily -- they're a political
liability.
>> But what was clearly stated was that it was the Silvanesti-Qualinesti
>> feud that the major obstacle, with no reference to the KoS. Silvanesti
>> and Qualinesti leaders don't have to meet to carry on a feud -- look at
>> the hill and mountain dwarves.
>
>Which one makes more sense? Winter Night says they maintained contact,
>and both Tanis and Gilthanas recognised Alhana's specific accent.
Maintain contact doesn't mean peaceful relations. Look at Taiwan and
China. It doesn't make sense that a knighthood that was ignored by both
elven regimes would have any impact on their internal politics.
>
>> And the elves and dwarves had done nothing to incite the KoS to please
>> them at all costs. The KoS should not have the burden of babying the other
>> nations of Krynn into doing what is right.
>
>It's a Big Picture thing. Alliances to the south means more troops for
>the north. And they essentially have the duty to lead allied forces
>against outside invasion.
The Big Picture is the reason that the sovereign nations don't interfere with
each other. The KoS are not an inferior power and to have them be the
political beggars of Krynn doesn't make sense. Any nation that has to
subservient to the whims of its allies is weak.
>> Replace America and China with the Elves and Dwarves and it's the
>> same thing. Nations will always safeguard their interests first, whether
>> they do it nicely or cruelly. Look at the Dwarfgate war. Thorbardin had
>> to be shut down not because Duncan didn't want to help the hill dwarves,
>> but because his own people were starving.
>
>the treaty would at least have broken the ice a little. It would have
>become obvious that the KoT weren't going to stop at Palanthas.
Again, it has been explicitly written that the KoS were not the ones
who reneged on the treaty. If anyone was shortsighted about the KoT
onslaught it was the elves.
>
>> >> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>> Inexperience and incompetence are two different things. Sending a
>> star pupil on a stretch mission is the way of the world.
>
>I still can't believe she didn't think anybody would investigate her.
It wasn't that -- she'd cast some read alignment spell on the guy she
had a thing for and misread it. Linsha got on a Crysania kick and
thought she could turn this guy to the "light."
>> Again, it's not fragility -- that would have been the case if she broke
>> character completely and abandoned her mission. Going from student
>> to supersoldier in a heartbeat only happens in the movies.
>
>Understandable, but the normal technique is to stick heads in butcher's
>offal, beat the crap out of them and deprive them of sleep in order to
>maintain cover. Something as elementary as 'support your cover' should
>not be hard to remember.
See earlier KoS paragraphs. Slitting open a few dregs of humanity could
have gotten her in bigger trouble.
>
<HR management doesn't involve practicing law>
>sounds nice. Graduate Diploma of Business Administration? Puts me in
>line for an MBA if I can work for two years.
Stringent requirement. Work experience is recommended for MBAs here,
but it isn't a prerequisite. HR is not a place for non-conformists, though.
>
<The KoS have to offer proof that they're changing>
>> The increase in recruits and acceptance of the treaty is all the proof
>> they need that the KoS is still a viable ally. How the KoS manages
>> its military force is moot, as long as the KoS comes when called.
>
>Elves aren't interested in NOW, they're interested in the long term.
>Gunthar's behaviour indicates they're not viable as long-term allies.
No it doesn't. Gunthar is instituting reforms that in terms of elven
longevity seem like rapid fire changes, and Liam is continuing his
work. And the elves aren't foolish enough to measure an institution
in terms of the lifetime of a leader that the majority of the elven
power elite will outlive.
>> The Bad Old Days? The KoS were derided for believing in Paladine
>> and upholding his traditions, and lo and behold, Paladine came back
>> and the KoS were right all along. There's no negative connotation to
>> the Measure in that respect.
>
>the bastardised version is inextricably linked to Crownguard et al. Mr
>'Let's kill us some elves' himself.
Crownguard at this stage is nothing more than a tool by which the
greatness of Sturm is measured. Sturm's adventures with Laurana and
the fond recollections of Alhana were probably the best PR the KoS has
had in elven lands in ages.
>
<Konnal and Rashas caused the treaty to fail>
>> >how did those two escape grenade enemas? Besides, the KoS needed to go
>> >the extra mile for the treaty to succeed. It's like setting up a treaty
>> >between Indonesia and East Timor and blaming the Timorese because only
>> >they refused to sign.
>>
>> The analogy fails because the equivalent of E. Timor and Indonesia are
>> Silvanesti and Qualinesti. The treaty never about the KoS uniting with
>> the elves. The KoS were asked for approval to ensure that the KoS
>> recognized the sovereignty of the new nation formed by the treaty.
>
>So I couldn't think of a better example of political hypocrisy.
Rashas and Konnal were certainly political hypocrites, so from that
perspective it does fit.
>
>> And the KoS has absolutely no obligation to go the extra mile for what
>> is very much a muddy elven state of affairs.
>
>they do however want an alliance with the elves, which is their duty to
>their successors.
The duty of the KoS is to leave behind an organization that can preserve
the liberty of good aligned nations that choose to ally with the KoS. The
alliance, while a nice to have, is falling apart because of the elves, and I
would question leaving my successors in the hands of a pair of nations
that so readily embraced the KoT and a green dragon.
>
>> >> >> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
>First DL underwear and now this. Eww. Don't ask him to pinch you.
It's getting him to stop that's the problem.
>> >> >> >> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
>Basically it seems every second public figure has come out in support of
>the Republic push. Actually, vote's next Saturday. I'm voting No and I
>just had a letter published explaining why.
It proves that most people want a nation to protect its own interests. You
have to let go of the Queen's apron strings sometime.
<Rohan would prefer it to be *actually* representative, with every 10-20
adults electing one official>
>> Unrealistic, unless you're talking a nation with a population of 300
>people.
>
>Oh, we're obviously incorporating a few levels of filtration. With
>about 70k people in a federal electorate, we're talking about three or
>four strata. Probably the 'electorate council' is made up of
>representatives from local councils. The advantage is it removes the
>parties and megabucks from the equation.
No it doesn't. It just spreads the lobby dollars across a wider base,
and encourages filibuster debates due to the even greater differences
of opinion.
<Synopsis of A Better Tomorrow movie>
Doesn't sound half bad, but bringing back Fat as the original hero's twin
smacks resoundingly of cheese, especially if the brother wasn't mentioned
originally.
>Sumptuous pork feast
>Planting a fragile red rose
>Box of Black Magic
You're casting a spell on a pig? Isn't easier to go to the supermarket and
buy pork chops?
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
>...and he escapes again. Sean, in what promises to be his second last
>session for the forseeable future, set up a bunch of vampires for an
>ambush but came unstuck when reality shifted and leeches became killin'
>machines. He seems to have acquired a girlfriend, although it's
>possible he's the first man she's ever met, he doesn't know her well
>(the specific reason he trusts her), and a future game might resemble
>Fatal Attraction.
16 year olds are adolescents, so she hasn't really met a man yet. Why
second last session -- is the DM moving?
>
>> >Time to go and dig up Freud's ass for kicking purposes.
>> He didn't draw the very ambiguous picture in question.
>
>it wasn't ambiguous! I don't do stylised.
It wasn't meant to be ambiguous, of course. But Ryan didn't get too
many takers swearing that the picture was a dagger.
>
>> >> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>> If each committee has 3 members, then you're talking 63 entities messing
>> with Krynn vs the 21 it had pre-Chaos War.
>
>the specific point is that mortal 'parliaments' handle it. It would be
>cheesy if we just had 7 members per parlt; I was thinking hundreds.
Unless committees are put together for a specific purpose and disbanded,
they can't agree on whether the sky is blue. You're talking major league
bureacracy.
>
>> >> >> <Tak might object to someone overthrowing Ariakas underhandedly>
>> >could be dumb luck, and she needs a general
>She'd recognise that a lucky break doesn't mean qualified for the job.
Putting an imposter on the throne and pulling the strings implies strategy,
not luck.
>
>> Why did you bring up nude beaches to begin with?
>
>er, I can't remember. Something cold-related.
How is this thread being on AFDL related to cold?
>
>> >I can't find Dark Heart. How about this Freud book?
>>
>> Freud is open to far too many interpretations.
>
>with DL you just throw a dart at your shelves to find out what's canon
>this week.
But an oath has to be sworn on a book the oath-taker believes is gospel.
So it's Dark Heart or Chronicles.
>
>> <The ACLU protects anyone for free>
>> Then there's the very recent case of the Klan in NYC. The city denied
>> them the right to march, and the ACLU got that reversed.
>
>if you've got a senator who changed sides over civil rights in the
>60s... somebody else may have subsidised.
Any senator who did that would be hung out to dry by his own party. This
is major anathema in the US.
>
<The KoS can't go 100% covert because they are the symbol of hope
for good aligned countries>
>they'd almost be developing a fourth order for covert purposes. Simple
>enough to have quiet guerrilla training.
A fourth order works for me because it would keep the Knights of the Rose
free to openly lead the KoS.
>
<Linsha made a mistake on her first assignment.>
>such an elementary error though. Did nobody talk to her about
>maintaining cover?
I would assume they did, because Linsha thinks about how her
superior would approve or disapprove of her decisions. Linsha's
problem was that she was probably taught on a case method, and
she made the wrong choices.
>
>> >who's going to join in the Fifth Age?
>>
>> A large pack of non-Solamnic ruffians, per The Rose and the Skull.
>
>a book that's so accurate on other issues...
But it's the only novel that has any insight at all, and like most DL
books, cherrypicking must be employed.
>
>> The male Solamnic requirement was already gone before Gunthar died,
>> and Liam seemed ready to let in the non-humans, per his invitation to
>> Valian.
>
>Social class. Per HoSt (so I'm told) you can't be a peasant.
Never read the HoSt so I can't comment on it. But I would imagine its the
Saga peasant attribute that is being referred to, and in that case it makes
sense that a peasant can't be a KoS.
>
>> <Linsha joined the KoS because of the Majere heroic legacy>
>> It wasn't "do the right thing" that was Linsha's problem, it was how to do
>> the right thing. And that's a typical KoS dilemma.
>
>if they're wringing hands over not charging the gates in broad daylight,
>that's a stupid KoS dilemma. Ethical problems are for 'do I carve my
>way through these sentries or try to knock them out?'
And that's the crux of the matter -- the KoS can't adopt a blanket "this
person's got to die, does it matter how?" mentality.
>
<Linsha should have protected herself by jumping some muggers>
Which means Linsha would have to pick a fight with someone who'd
done her no harm and kill him, because leaving a thug alive means that
he'll come after her.
>
<Linsha takes after both Palin and Caramon, who wanted to adventure
when young>
>Palin valued his family more than the magic, as opposed to being a
>psychotic outcast like Raistlin. Caramon had his head screwed with by
>Kitiara and his raison d'etre became escorting Raistlin. Left to his
>own desires, he probably would have preferred to just settle down with
>Tika and be normal.
As far as I know, Linsha doesn't have a family of her own, so she's at
the same stage in life that Palin and Caramon were when they set off
to find adventure. And Caramon would have gone of adventuring Raistlin
and Kit nonwithstanding, since being a farmer was something he did
to put food on the table, not something he enjoyed.
>
>> <The moral ambiguity of the LoS should not be emulated by the KoS>
>'good' as related to violence should be that it was necessary and the
>recipient had it coming. Ideally you put a knife to his throat, tell
>him to shut up and tie him up somewhere. After all, he was probably
>only doing his job.
You're agreeing with me then.
>
>legionnaires are meant to have morals as well. I forgot about the
>'unseen head shot vs slow acid drip' question when I said that, I meant
>'front or back, it's still a sword.' Certainly we're talking major
>alignment issues if a KoS kills somebody in an unnecessarily painful way
More agreement.
LoS are meant to be more morally ambiguous, because their motto is akin
to the "end justifies the means." I can see the LoS making the same kind
of decision that Belgarath made in the Belgariad, when he talks about
choosing to save the Drasnian pikemen over Drasnian civilians because
they'd be needed in the war against Torak.
>
>
>Where did you learn that the LoS are bastards? Certainly a KoS would be
>honourable - unless it endangered the mission.
If I'm not mistaken, there's some question as to what kind of ties certain
legionnaires have to the dragon overlords per the 5th age box. In the
Legacy of Steel, Sarah's star pupil fought with the knight over whether the
giant's treasure should be used to maintain the army or to support the
giant's victims.
>
>imagine 1945 only there is no clear threat because Russia spontaneously
>combusted or whatever. What will the euros make of the yanks?
No difference. The US had a technological and trade edge to bargain with
in addition to its counterbalance effect against Russia.
>
>> You should know when and HOW and WHY to break the rules. Breaking
>> the rules when convenient makes the KoS no better than an outlaw band.
>
>'when' encompasses the other two. My legal background talking.
How so? Cruel and unusual punishment is against the law in the US, but
sentencing someone to die is not.
>
<The KoS don't rule Solamnia, but have a first obligation to it>
>
>they got more global than that...
Yes, but they run the organization from Solamnia.
>
>> Never said the KoS wouldn't be useful militarily -- they're a political
>> liability.
>
>...unless enough elves can be brought around. I'm sure Rashas
>especially was working with a coalition of some hard-core KKKers and a
>substantial chunk of moderates who could have been swayed.
Per The Puppet King, it was only the younger generation that was
against Rashas, with minor exceptions.
>> Maintain contact doesn't mean peaceful relations. Look at Taiwan and
>> China. It doesn't make sense that a knighthood that was ignored by both
>> elven regimes would have any impact on their internal politics.
>
>they've been somewhat forced to take notice...
Sure the elves have noticed the KoS and the reaction has been
somewhere along the lines of "get away from me kid, you bother me."
>> The Big Picture is the reason that the sovereign nations don't interfere
>> with each other. The KoS are not an inferior power and to have them
>> be the political beggars of Krynn doesn't make sense. Any nation that
>> has to subservient to the whims of its allies is weak.
>
>it's not whim. Elven pride will dictate that they be equal partners and
>not just a satellite.
The elves practice Marie Antoinette politics -- everyone else can eat cake
unless the elves themselves are threatened. The KoS can live without
allies like that.
>> Again, it has been explicitly written that the KoS were not the ones
>> who reneged on the treaty. If anyone was shortsighted about the KoT
>> onslaught it was the elves.
>
>...who were scared of a lot of things, including the KoS.
The elves were scared of all humans because they blamed them for all
of Krynn's problems -- the Kingpriest was human, after all. The elves
did not want the KoS intruding in their affairs, but they didn't fear them
as a political entity.
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>> It wasn't that -- she'd cast some read alignment spell on the guy she
>> had a thing for and misread it. Linsha got on a Crysania kick and
>> thought she could turn this guy to the "light."
>
>Valid. However, she should have expected to be checked. I've probably
>come to police attention several times in the last few years because
>I've been involved in a gun club and talked to a few govt agencies about
>employment.
But you've been volunteering information about yourself. Linsha hasn't.
>> See earlier KoS paragraphs. Slitting open a few dregs of humanity could
>> have gotten her in bigger trouble.
>
>That's understood. But "Lynn" isn't stupid, so it'd be credible that
>she'd get a handle on the place before bashing some guys.
Moral compass issue. She'd have to pick the fight, and probably kill
the guy.
>
>> <HR management doesn't involve practicing law>
>> Stringent requirement. Work experience is recommended for MBAs
>> here, but it isn't a prerequisite. HR is not a place for non-conformists,
>though.
>
>all I need to do is get into the office
You are so sweetly altruistic. HR is the most morally deprived area
in a corporation. The goal is to keep the corporation out of court. It
doesn't matter if that means keeping a corrupt manager safe.
>
>> <The KoS have to offer proof that they're changing>
>well, how did they change their minds from the WotL? Elves & time is
>screwed up in DL.
I agree, elven aging is a major continuity gaps in DL. But I don't see
the elves changing their opinions of the KoS at all -- they're ignoring
them now the same way they did pre-WotL.
>
>> >the bastardised version is inextricably linked to Crownguard et al. Mr
>> >'Let's kill us some elves' himself.
>>
>> Crownguard at this stage is nothing more than a tool by which the
>> greatness of Sturm is measured. Sturm's adventures with Laurana and
>> the fond recollections of Alhana were probably the best PR the KoS has
>> had in elven lands in ages.
>
>if Crownguard was essentially appointed as a brigadier, there were
>certainly plenty of knights like him. Boniface probably had the same
>attitude as his son.
Per your own reasoning, the majority of the guys who followed Crownguard
are dead, so it's the Sturm fan club that's running the show.
>
>> Rashas and Konnal were certainly political hypocrites, so from that
>> perspective it does fit.
>
>Cool. I'll let my mind wander to celebrate.
Be sure to take a map so you don't get lost.
>
>Good is most furthered by having elves around. If the KoS have a strong
>elven alliance, their psychotic urges can be mitigated.
Whose urges? The KoS or the elves? At least when the KoS attempted to
urge with the KoT, they were going to put in strictures around honor. The
elves just sold out.
>
>> >> >> >> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
>> >First DL underwear and now this. Eww. Don't ask him to pinch you.
>>
>> It's getting him to stop that's the problem.
>
>madonna huh?
Of course. Never said he was pinching me.
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
>> It proves that most people want a nation to protect its own interests. You
>> have to let go of the Queen's apron strings sometime.
>
>We did at least thirteen years ago. The issue is the name on the
>letterhead. And the intricately balanced constitutional power-sharing
>arrangements. I'd prefer a liberal democracy thank you very much.
I'd forgotten the piece about it being harder to vote out the ruling party.
But it's not as if Queen Elizabeth will kick out a party she doesn't
approve of.
>
>> <Rohan would prefer it to be *actually* representative, with every 10-20
>> adults electing one official>
>> No it doesn't. It just spreads the lobby dollars across a wider base,
>> and encourages filibuster debates due to the even greater differences
>> of opinion.
>
>I'd have to watch Yes Prime Minister to figure out the details. All I
>know is that it scared Humphrey Appleby into action...
Humph saw his share of lobby dollars dwindling.
>
>> <Synopsis of A Better Tomorrow movie>
>Style over substance, big time. The HK movie is based on style, and
>doesn't make pretentions to reality (try Armour of God or the 'she's a
>cop' version of Naked Killer). The character gets introduced via a
>sketch art montage that doesn't make much internal sense - it's just a
>way to make the stars look heroic. He also makes a violently rude
>customer at his restaurant 'apologise to the rice' with a gun.
Mr. Fat is my kind of guy then, protecting defenseless grain from abuse.
>
>> >Sumptuous pork feast
>> >Planting a fragile red rose
>> >Box of Black Magic
>>
>> You're casting a spell on a pig? Isn't easier to go to the supermarket and
>> buy pork chops?
>
>No, not casting a spell. Black Magic is chocolate. Me being subtle.
I get it now. Nice. I like it.
>
>...and I'm going to make it five days running where I've played some
>kind of RPG by finishing off the Werewolf game tomorrow...
Not having school is fun isn't it? Ah, the good old days...
>
<Cyberpunk game explodes with action>
Nice of you to nurture newbies along -- I find it amusing that they're still
kicking while the original players are gone.
So if the Castrato decides to show up for the next session, does he
get in?
>May your paper bags be brown and bulging
They are -- it's Halloween.
Tolstrup
> >session for the forseeable future, set up a bunch of vampires for an
> >ambush but came unstuck when reality shifted and leeches became killin'
> >machines. He seems to have acquired a girlfriend, although it's
> >possible he's the first man she's ever met, he doesn't know her well
> >(the specific reason he trusts her), and a future game might resemble
> >Fatal Attraction.
>
> 16 year olds are adolescents, so she hasn't really met a man yet. Why
> second last session -- is the DM moving?
Four out of seven players have dropped out (one moved interstate), and a
fifth can't make the regular alternate Friday game. We generally agree
a sequel isn't out of the question, either in about 6mths when Mal gets
off night shift, or just with me and the other remaining bloke adopting
a bunch of new characters - Sean's essentially 'co-leader for diplomatic
stuff' while the other bloke may well end up as the Alaskan head of
Garou Inc. Both of us want to travel, so we could fast-forward a few
years to Werewolf: the College Years.
> >> >Time to go and dig up Freud's ass for kicking purposes.
> >> He didn't draw the very ambiguous picture in question.
> >
> >it wasn't ambiguous! I don't do stylised.
>
> It wasn't meant to be ambiguous, of course. But Ryan didn't get too
> many takers swearing that the picture was a dagger.
I think a nun who's been cloistered her entire life would realise that
was nowhere near anatomically correct.
> >> >> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
> >the specific point is that mortal 'parliaments' handle it. It would be
> >cheesy if we just had 7 members per parlt; I was thinking hundreds.
>
> Unless committees are put together for a specific purpose and disbanded,
> they can't agree on whether the sky is blue. You're talking major league
> bureacracy.
Remember, what we're used to involves humans. Souls are probably
another thing entirely.
> >> >> >> <Tak might object to someone overthrowing Ariakas underhandedly>
> >She'd recognise that a lucky break doesn't mean qualified for the job.
>
> Putting an imposter on the throne and pulling the strings implies strategy,
> not luck.
putting an imposter on the throne and icing Ariakas doesn't necessarily
make a good general. By that logic Chaos should have just taken Takhy's
job as he was qualified.
> >> Why did you bring up nude beaches to begin with?
> >
> >er, I can't remember. Something cold-related.
>
> How is this thread being on AFDL related to cold?
!@#$%^& I can't remember
> >> >I can't find Dark Heart. How about this Freud book?
> >>
> >> Freud is open to far too many interpretations.
> >
> >with DL you just throw a dart at your shelves to find out what's canon
> >this week.
>
> But an oath has to be sworn on a book the oath-taker believes is gospel.
> So it's Dark Heart or Chronicles.
I'll just bring a bible then
> >> <The ACLU protects anyone for free>
>
> >> Then there's the very recent case of the Klan in NYC. The city denied
> >> them the right to march, and the ACLU got that reversed.
> >
> >if you've got a senator who changed sides over civil rights in the
> >60s... somebody else may have subsidised.
>
> Any senator who did that would be hung out to dry by his own party. This
> is major anathema in the US.
use that Thurmond bloke as a stalking horse
> <The KoS can't go 100% covert because they are the symbol of hope
> for good aligned countries>
> >they'd almost be developing a fourth order for covert purposes. Simple
> >enough to have quiet guerrilla training.
>
> A fourth order works for me because it would keep the Knights of the Rose
> free to openly lead the KoS.
To me she seemed too young for a Rose. More likely we'd see some kind
of 'Office of Management Analysis' buried in the Crown order or support
staff - especially the KoS need bureaucrats. It's common sense to use
non-Rose knights - I can't remember seeing a figure, but logic dictates
that there be about eight Crown knights per Sword and sixteen per Rose.
> <Linsha made a mistake on her first assignment.>
> >such an elementary error though. Did nobody talk to her about
> >maintaining cover?
>
> I would assume they did, because Linsha thinks about how her
> superior would approve or disapprove of her decisions. Linsha's
> problem was that she was probably taught on a case method, and
> she made the wrong choices.
Star Wars Episode IVa: Killing the Death Star Engineers
> >> >who's going to join in the Fifth Age?
> >>
> >> A large pack of non-Solamnic ruffians, per The Rose and the Skull.
> >
> >a book that's so accurate on other issues...
>
> But it's the only novel that has any insight at all, and like most DL
> books, cherrypicking must be employed.
I just think the KoS deserve a true exploration
> >> The male Solamnic requirement was already gone before Gunthar died,
> >> and Liam seemed ready to let in the non-humans, per his invitation to
> >> Valian.
> >
> >Social class. Per HoSt (so I'm told) you can't be a peasant.
>
> Never read the HoSt so I can't comment on it. But I would imagine its the
> Saga peasant attribute that is being referred to, and in that case it makes
> sense that a peasant can't be a KoS.
'Saga peasant?' I understood it was a social class function: if your
daddy was a farmer then you can't get in. I don't like the idea of
that, because unlike a lot of other orders the foremost imperative
*isn't* the protection of the ruling class. Surely escaped slaves and
burned-out peasants would be nicely motivated. Social class is an
artificial requirement and only diverts more applicants to the LoS.
> >> <Linsha joined the KoS because of the Majere heroic legacy>
> >if they're wringing hands over not charging the gates in broad daylight,
> >that's a stupid KoS dilemma. Ethical problems are for 'do I carve my
> >way through these sentries or try to knock them out?'
>
> And that's the crux of the matter -- the KoS can't adopt a blanket "this
> person's got to die, does it matter how?" mentality.
Of course not. She can however carefully pick a target, give him a
headache and brag about how his eyes bulged out.
> <Linsha should have protected herself by jumping some muggers>
> Which means Linsha would have to pick a fight with someone who'd
> done her no harm and kill him, because leaving a thug alive means that
> he'll come after her.
Sanction doesn't have an effective police force, and vigilante justice
would probably be the norm anyway. Sure he hasn't hurt *her*, but by
definition he's a violent bastard. So hack him or hit him over the head
from behind.
> <Linsha takes after both Palin and Caramon, who wanted to adventure
> when young>
> >Palin valued his family more than the magic, as opposed to being a
> >psychotic outcast like Raistlin. Caramon had his head screwed with by
> >Kitiara and his raison d'etre became escorting Raistlin. Left to his
> >own desires, he probably would have preferred to just settle down with
> >Tika and be normal.
>
> As far as I know, Linsha doesn't have a family of her own, so she's at
> the same stage in life that Palin and Caramon were when they set off
> to find adventure. And Caramon would have gone of adventuring Raistlin
> and Kit nonwithstanding, since being a farmer was something he did
> to put food on the table, not something he enjoyed.
left to his own devices maybe he would have set himself up in business.
He wasn't stupid, and could have turned enough of a profit from manual
labour to set up a shop etc.
> >> <The moral ambiguity of the LoS should not be emulated by the KoS>
> >'good' as related to violence should be that it was necessary and the
> >recipient had it coming. Ideally you put a knife to his throat, tell
> >him to shut up and tie him up somewhere. After all, he was probably
> >only doing his job.
>
> You're agreeing with me then.
you also don't make a threat you're not willing to carry out - unless a
bluff is workable.
> >legionnaires are meant to have morals as well. I forgot about the
> >'unseen head shot vs slow acid drip' question when I said that, I meant
> >'front or back, it's still a sword.' Certainly we're talking major
> >alignment issues if a KoS kills somebody in an unnecessarily painful way
>
> More agreement.
>
> LoS are meant to be more morally ambiguous, because their motto is akin
> to the "end justifies the means." I can see the LoS making the same kind
> of decision that Belgarath made in the Belgariad, when he talks about
> choosing to save the Drasnian pikemen over Drasnian civilians because
> they'd be needed in the war against Torak.
The LoS being portrayed more like Harpers, you've got to wonder if
they'd adopt the 'shoot the hostage' mentality. Belgariad morality?
> >Where did you learn that the LoS are bastards? Certainly a KoS would be
> >honourable - unless it endangered the mission.
>
> If I'm not mistaken, there's some question as to what kind of ties certain
> legionnaires have to the dragon overlords per the 5th age box. In the
> Legacy of Steel, Sarah's star pupil fought with the knight over whether the
> giant's treasure should be used to maintain the army or to support the
> giant's victims.
I always was suspicious of the LoS
> >imagine 1945 only there is no clear threat because Russia spontaneously
> >combusted or whatever. What will the euros make of the yanks?
>
> No difference. The US had a technological and trade edge to bargain with
> in addition to its counterbalance effect against Russia.
however, the looming USSR certainly forced them together. Otherwise
shock/horror we might have seen countries cutting their own little deals
> >> You should know when and HOW and WHY to break the rules. Breaking
> >> the rules when convenient makes the KoS no better than an outlaw band.
> >'when' encompasses the other two. My legal background talking.
>
> How so? Cruel and unusual punishment is against the law in the US, but
> sentencing someone to die is not.
Well, it's not unusual in Texas, and I guess if it isn't torture - not
that America's sick fascination with a mountain of skulls is justified.
Lawyers actually use words by their definitions and try to be shorthand.
> <The KoS don't rule Solamnia, but have a first obligation to it>
> >they got more global than that...
>
> Yes, but they run the organization from Solamnia.
is Sancrist actually part of Solamnia?
> >> Never said the KoS wouldn't be useful militarily -- they're a political
> >> liability.
> >...unless enough elves can be brought around. I'm sure Rashas
> >especially was working with a coalition of some hard-core KKKers and a
> >substantial chunk of moderates who could have been swayed.
>
> Per The Puppet King, it was only the younger generation that was
> against Rashas, with minor exceptions.
I was talking about the motivations of those who supported him
> >> Maintain contact doesn't mean peaceful relations. Look at Taiwan and
> >> China. It doesn't make sense that a knighthood that was ignored by both
> >> elven regimes would have any impact on their internal politics.
> >
> >they've been somewhat forced to take notice...
>
> Sure the elves have noticed the KoS and the reaction has been
> somewhere along the lines of "get away from me kid, you bother me."
when they're obviously so powerful and important to defence...
> >it's not whim. Elven pride will dictate that they be equal partners and
> >not just a satellite.
>
> The elves practice Marie Antoinette politics -- everyone else can eat cake
> unless the elves themselves are threatened. The KoS can live without
> allies like that.
and the best way to turn them around is...
> >> Again, it has been explicitly written that the KoS were not the ones
> >> who reneged on the treaty. If anyone was shortsighted about the KoT
> >> onslaught it was the elves.
> >
> >...who were scared of a lot of things, including the KoS.
>
> The elves were scared of all humans because they blamed them for all
> of Krynn's problems -- the Kingpriest was human, after all. The elves
> did not want the KoS intruding in their affairs, but they didn't fear them
> as a political entity.
bring them together and roll out the trust
> >> >> >> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>
> >> It wasn't that -- she'd cast some read alignment spell on the guy she
> >> had a thing for and misread it. Linsha got on a Crysania kick and
> >> thought she could turn this guy to the "light."
> >
> >Valid. However, she should have expected to be checked. I've probably
> >come to police attention several times in the last few years because
> >I've been involved in a gun club and talked to a few govt agencies about
> >employment.
>
> But you've been volunteering information about yourself. Linsha hasn't.
She might as well have. It would be stupid to believe she wouldn't be
investigated by anybody.
> >> See earlier KoS paragraphs. Slitting open a few dregs of humanity could
> >> have gotten her in bigger trouble.
> >
> >That's understood. But "Lynn" isn't stupid, so it'd be credible that
> >she'd get a handle on the place before bashing some guys.
>
> Moral compass issue. She'd have to pick the fight, and probably kill
> the guy.
...who had it coming by definition
> >> <HR management doesn't involve practicing law>
> >> Stringent requirement. Work experience is recommended for MBAs
> >> here, but it isn't a prerequisite. HR is not a place for non-conformists,
> >though.
> >
> >all I need to do is get into the office
>
> You are so sweetly altruistic. HR is the most morally deprived area
> in a corporation. The goal is to keep the corporation out of court. It
> doesn't matter if that means keeping a corrupt manager safe.
I'll be there with my black briefcase then
> >> <The KoS have to offer proof that they're changing>
> >well, how did they change their minds from the WotL? Elves & time is
> >screwed up in DL.
>
> I agree, elven aging is a major continuity gaps in DL. But I don't see
> the elves changing their opinions of the KoS at all -- they're ignoring
> them now the same way they did pre-WotL.
Which is kinda stupid considering that they fought on the same side and
were actually brought together. It's like every book after Legends
chose to ignore Chronicles.
> >> Crownguard at this stage is nothing more than a tool by which the
> >> greatness of Sturm is measured. Sturm's adventures with Laurana and
> >> the fond recollections of Alhana were probably the best PR the KoS has
> >> had in elven lands in ages.
> >
> >if Crownguard was essentially appointed as a brigadier, there were
> >certainly plenty of knights like him. Boniface probably had the same
> >attitude as his son.
>
> Per your own reasoning, the majority of the guys who followed Crownguard
> are dead, so it's the Sturm fan club that's running the show.
take out a contract on Jeff Crook?
> >> Rashas and Konnal were certainly political hypocrites, so from that
> >> perspective it does fit.
> >
> >Cool. I'll let my mind wander to celebrate.
>
> Be sure to take a map so you don't get lost.
I'm back
> >Good is most furthered by having elves around. If the KoS have a strong
> >elven alliance, their psychotic urges can be mitigated.
>
> Whose urges? The KoS or the elves? At least when the KoS attempted to
> urge with the KoT, they were going to put in strictures around honor. The
> elves just sold out.
basically they should have all stuck together and worked things out
> >> >> >> >> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
> >> >First DL underwear and now this. Eww. Don't ask him to pinch you.
> >>
> >> It's getting him to stop that's the problem.
> >
> >madonna huh?
>
> Of course. Never said he was pinching me.
strongly implied. Do I want to know what this plane-hopping fictional
character was doing then?
> >> >> >> >> >> >> <American aggressively protects its interests>
> >> It proves that most people want a nation to protect its own interests. You
> >> have to let go of the Queen's apron strings sometime.
> >
> >We did at least thirteen years ago. The issue is the name on the
> >letterhead. And the intricately balanced constitutional power-sharing
> >arrangements. I'd prefer a liberal democracy thank you very much.
>
> I'd forgotten the piece about it being harder to vote out the ruling party.
> But it's not as if Queen Elizabeth will kick out a party she doesn't
> approve of.
Of course not. She bound herself by not intervening in '75. However,
there's always that 'Hitler Clause' whereby she could decline assent to
a really repellent law, sack a psychotic PM etc. And more to the point,
she could decline to sack the Governor-General, who is now less likely
to use his powers because the PM can directly sack him.
> >> <Rohan would prefer it to be *actually* representative, with every 10-20
> >> adults electing one official>
> >I'd have to watch Yes Prime Minister to figure out the details. All I
> >know is that it scared Humphrey Appleby into action...
>
> Humph saw his share of lobby dollars dwindling.
more worried about actual representative government. That socialist
lady in the same episode was a hoot.
> >> <Synopsis of A Better Tomorrow movie>
> >Style over substance, big time. The HK movie is based on style, and
> >doesn't make pretentions to reality (try Armour of God or the 'she's a
> >cop' version of Naked Killer). The character gets introduced via a
> >sketch art montage that doesn't make much internal sense - it's just a
> >way to make the stars look heroic. He also makes a violently rude
> >customer at his restaurant 'apologise to the rice' with a gun.
>
> Mr. Fat is my kind of guy then, protecting defenseless grain from abuse.
okay. I understand 'Chow' is actually his surname.
> >> >Sumptuous pork feast
> >> >Planting a fragile red rose
> >> >Box of Black Magic
> >> You're casting a spell on a pig? Isn't easier to go to the supermarket and
> >> buy pork chops?
> >
> >No, not casting a spell. Black Magic is chocolate. Me being subtle.
>
> I get it now. Nice. I like it.
ever heard of Milwaukee's most famous chef?
> >...and I'm going to make it five days running where I've played some
> >kind of RPG by finishing off the Werewolf game tomorrow...
>
> Not having school is fun isn't it? Ah, the good old days...
dammit I've got to study!!!!!!
> <Cyberpunk game explodes with action>
>
> Nice of you to nurture newbies along -- I find it amusing that they're still
> kicking while the original players are gone.
The one moving interstate was just spoiling for a fight, and decided on
something bloody stupid.
> So if the Castrato decides to show up for the next session, does he
> get in?
good question :)
> >May your paper bags be brown and bulging
>
> They are -- it's Halloween.
I thought kickbacks were normally received during business hours.
Rohan Tolstrup
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Sean's going to be fastforwarded to adulthood when the Werewolf
game picks up again>
If you pick up the game then, doesn't that mean automatic npc status
for Sean?
<The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
>> It wasn't meant to be ambiguous, of course. But Ryan didn't get too
>> many takers swearing that the picture was a dagger.
>
>I think a nun who's been cloistered her entire life would realise that
>was nowhere near anatomically correct.
How's a madonna supposed to answer that one? And it's not as if the
thing screamed *dagger* -- one guy called it a syringe.
>
>> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>Remember, what we're used to involves humans. Souls are probably
>another thing entirely.
I don't see souls being disengaged from emotions even when separated
from the human body. That's why I don't see them in harmonic agreement.
>
<Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
>putting an imposter on the throne and icing Ariakas doesn't necessarily
>make a good general. By that logic Chaos should have just taken Takhy's
>job as he was qualified.
Chaos didn't need to be a good general, he had power. Chaos wasn't
exactly filled with the subtlety it would take to pull an imposter switch
either.
>> How is this thread being on AFDL related to cold?
>
>!@#$%^& I can't remember
Ahh, poetry. I remember, but I'm not telling.
<A fourth Solamnic order to handle covert activities is a good idea>
>
>To me she seemed too young for a Rose. More likely we'd see some kind
>of 'Office of Management Analysis' buried in the Crown order or support
>staff - especially the KoS need bureaucrats.
Sometimes, in order to change the culture of an organization, a firm
promotes younger than usual, and this may be the case with the KoS.
While the Crown knights might act as support staff, I see the Rose knights
in peacetime as the strategic thinkers that do the planning, like the board
of directors of a company.
>It's common sense to use non-Rose knights - I can't remember seeing a
>figure, but logic dictates that there be about eight Crown knights per Sword
> and sixteen per Rose.
Yep, a covert order should not be the place where you risk the lives of the
Rose knights, whose order is supposed to be the creme of the crop and
are privy to the inner secrets of the KoS.
>
>> <Linsha made a mistake on her first assignment.>
>Star Wars Episode IVa: Killing the Death Star Engineers
As long as Episode IVb involves the firing of all Lucasfilm animators
who believe each film must have a cute, toy selling character.
>I just think the KoS deserve a true exploration
So do I.
<You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
>'Saga peasant?' I understood it was a social class function: if your
>daddy was a farmer then you can't get in.
I only played one game and read the box once, but I was referring to that
section on creating your character and how one of the classes could be
a peasant.
> I don't like the idea of that, because unlike a lot of other orders the
> foremost imperative *isn't* the protection of the ruling class. Surely
> escaped slaves and burned-out peasants would be nicely motivated.
> Social class is an artificial requirement and only diverts more applicants
> to the LoS.
How does the KoS fund itself, since it doesn't help itself to the spoils of
war? If it relies on the wealth of its members to keep itself going as an
organization, then letting in anyone who can't pay the membership fee
would guarantee the collapse of the KoS.
>
>> >> <Linsha joined the KoS because of the Majere heroic legacy>
>> And that's the crux of the matter -- the KoS can't adopt a blanket "this
>> person's got to die, does it matter how?" mentality.
>Sanction doesn't have an effective police force, and vigilante justice
>would probably be the norm anyway. Sure he hasn't hurt *her*, but by
>definition he's a violent bastard. So hack him or hit him over the head
>from behind.
If "Lynn" intervenes on behalf of someone getting mugged, she risks
blowing her cover. If she picks a fight with someone she hasn't caught
committing a crime, then "Lynn" is going against the Measure.
>
>> <Linsha takes after both Palin and Caramon, who wanted to adventure
>> when young>
>left to his own devices maybe he would have set himself up in business.
>He wasn't stupid, and could have turned enough of a profit from manual
>labour to set up a shop etc.
Caramon? The guy who left all the counting and money management to
Raistlin? When Caramon returned to Solace after Chronicles, he
continued to take up mercenary related work.
>
>> >> <The moral ambiguity of the LoS should not be emulated by the KoS>
>you also don't make a threat you're not willing to carry out - unless a
>bluff is workable.
Agreement again -- a nicely mellow Koalataur must have gotten his hands
on an exceptional crop of eucalyptus leaves.
>The LoS being portrayed more like Harpers, you've got to wonder if
>they'd adopt the 'shoot the hostage' mentality. Belgariad morality?
Belgarath morality, to be specific. Polgara hasn't killed in over 4,000
years. I think the LoS would be the perfect characters to exhibit the
"shoot the hostage" mentality but no one's taken that chance with them.
>
>I always was suspicious of the LoS
It would violate AFDL continuity if you weren't.
>
<KoS resembles 1945 America without the USSR threat>
>however, the looming USSR certainly forced them together. Otherwise
>shock/horror we might have seen countries cutting their own little deals
>> <The KoS don't rule Solamnia, but have a first obligation to it>
>> >they got more global than that...
>>
>> Yes, but they run the organization from Solamnia.
>
>is Sancrist actually part of Solamnia?
I thought so.
>> Per The Puppet King, it was only the younger generation that was
>> against Rashas, with minor exceptions.
>
>I was talking about the motivations of those who supported him
The characters who supported Rashas wanted to keep trade going.
They still would have sold out the KoS just to get their goods shipped.
>> Sure the elves have noticed the KoS and the reaction has been
>> somewhere along the lines of "get away from me kid, you bother me."
>
>when they're obviously so powerful and important to defence...
They were important to defense during the WotL but the elves turned
tail and ran then, too.
>> The elves practice Marie Antoinette politics -- everyone else can eat cake
>> unless the elves themselves are threatened. The KoS can live without
>> allies like that.
>
>and the best way to turn them around is...
Beats me. I'm sure they'll find a way to blame the dragon overlord
problem on humans, too.
>
>> The elves were scared of all humans because they blamed them for all
>> of Krynn's problems -- the Kingpriest was human, after all. The elves
>> did not want the KoS intruding in their affairs, but they didn't fear them
>> as a political entity.
>
>bring them together and roll out the trust
How many times do they have to come together to inspire trust? What
about the council of Whitestone?
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>> But you've been volunteering information about yourself. Linsha hasn't.
>
>She might as well have. It would be stupid to believe she wouldn't be
>investigated by anybody.
Her mistake was letting the emotions get the upper hand. She saw
what she wanted to see in what's his name.
>
>> >> Moral compass issue. She'd have to pick the fight, and probably kill
>> the guy.
>
>...who had it coming by definition
But if he's not caught in the act, it's murder. And if he is, her cover is
blown.
>
>> I agree, elven aging is a major continuity gaps in DL. But I don't see
>> the elves changing their opinions of the KoS at all -- they're ignoring
>> them now the same way they did pre-WotL.
>
>Which is kinda stupid considering that they fought on the same side and
>were actually brought together. It's like every book after Legends
>chose to ignore Chronicles.
The elves are exhibiting parental memory -- my mother always reminds me
to be careful with my sweater because I lost one when I was in high school.
Never mind the fact that I haven't lost one since.
>
>> Per your own reasoning, the majority of the guys who followed Crownguard
>> are dead, so it's the Sturm fan club that's running the show.
>
>take out a contract on Jeff Crook?
Jeff's knights are "good old days" revisionists, so that's not a continuity
violation.
>
>> >Cool. I'll let my mind wander to celebrate.
>>
>> Be sure to take a map so you don't get lost.
>
>I'm back
That's good. You have to walk Bunsen now.
>
>> Whose urges? The KoS or the elves? At least when the KoS attempted to
>> urge with the KoT, they were going to put in strictures around honor. The
>> elves just sold out.
>
>basically they should have all stuck together and worked things out
Yes they should have. But the elves dropped the ball, not the KoS.
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
>> >> >First DL underwear and now this. Eww. Don't ask him to pinch you.
>> >>
>> >> It's getting him to stop that's the problem.
>> >
>> >madonna huh?
>>
>> Of course. Never said he was pinching me.
>
>strongly implied. Do I want to know what this plane-hopping fictional
>character was doing then?
No, , let's preserve that boyish innocence for just a bit longer.
>
<Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
>> I'd forgotten the piece about it being harder to vote out the ruling party.
>> But it's not as if Queen Elizabeth will kick out a party she doesn't
>> approve of.
>
>Of course not. She bound herself by not intervening in '75. However,
>there's always that 'Hitler Clause' whereby she could decline assent to
>a really repellent law, sack a psychotic PM etc. And more to the point,
>she could decline to sack the Governor-General, who is now less likely
>to use his powers because the PM can directly sack him.
The PM has other ambitious would-be PMs to hold him in check.
>
>> >I'd have to watch Yes Prime Minister to figure out the details. All I
>> >know is that it scared Humphrey Appleby into action...
>>
>> Humph saw his share of lobby dollars dwindling.
>
>more worried about actual representative government. That socialist
>lady in the same episode was a hoot.
I'm rather fond of Francis Urnquist myself.
>
>> Mr. Fat is my kind of guy then, protecting defenseless grain from abuse.
>
>okay. I understand 'Chow' is actually his surname.
Oops. Forgot the surname comes first, and Chow Yun Fat is traditional.
>ever heard of Milwaukee's most famous chef?
Mr. Brewer? Mr. Budweiser? Mr Miller?
>
>> >...and I'm going to make it five days running where I've played some
>> >kind of RPG by finishing off the Werewolf game tomorrow...
>>
>> Not having school is fun isn't it? Ah, the good old days...
>
>dammit I've got to study!!!!!!
That's it -- turn over the PC to Simon and get to work, young man.
>
>> <Cyberpunk game explodes with action>
>>
>> Nice of you to nurture newbies along -- I find it amusing that they're
>still kicking while the original players are gone.
>
>The one moving interstate was just spoiling for a fight, and decided on
>something bloody stupid.
Nice to go out with a bang, I suppose. You guys can always go the MUD
route if your short on players.
>
>> So if the Castrato decides to show up for the next session, does he
>> get in?
>
>good question :)
Poor Castrato -- I can hear the wheels turning inside your head from here.
>
>> >May your paper bags be brown and bulging
>>
>> They are -- it's Halloween.
>
>I thought kickbacks were normally received during business hours.
Candy collection runs from 9:00 to 6:00. I also won the Halloween contest
at our office Halloween party and am looking forward to some shopping this
weekend.
Altarielle
<Sean's going to be fastforwarded to adulthood when the Werewolf
game picks up again>
If you pick up the game then, doesn't that mean automatic npc status
for Sean?
<The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
>> It wasn't meant to be ambiguous, of course. But Ryan didn't get too
>> many takers swearing that the picture was a dagger.
>
>I think a nun who's been cloistered her entire life would realise that
>was nowhere near anatomically correct.
How's a madonna supposed to answer that one? And it's not as if the
thing screamed *dagger* -- one guy called it a syringe.
>
>> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>Remember, what we're used to involves humans. Souls are probably
>another thing entirely.
I don't see souls being disengaged from emotions even when separated
from the human body. That's why I don't see them in harmonic agreement.
>
<Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
>putting an imposter on the throne and icing Ariakas doesn't necessarily
>make a good general. By that logic Chaos should have just taken Takhy's
>job as he was qualified.
Chaos didn't need to be a good general, he had power. Chaos wasn't
exactly filled with the subtlety it would take to pull an imposter switch
either.
>> How is this thread being on AFDL related to cold?
>
>!@#$%^& I can't remember
Ahh, poetry. I remember, but I'm not telling.
<A fourth Solamnic order to handle covert activities is a good idea>
>
>To me she seemed too young for a Rose. More likely we'd see some kind
>of 'Office of Management Analysis' buried in the Crown order or support
>staff - especially the KoS need bureaucrats.
Sometimes, in order to change the culture of an organization, a firm
promotes younger than usual, and this may be the case with the KoS.
While the Crown knights might act as support staff, I see the Rose knights
in peacetime as the strategic thinkers that do the planning, like the board
of directors of a company.
>It's common sense to use non-Rose knights - I can't remember seeing a
>figure, but logic dictates that there be about eight Crown knights per Sword
> and sixteen per Rose.
Yep, a covert order should not be the place where you risk the lives of the
Rose knights, whose order is supposed to be the creme of the crop and
are privy to the inner secrets of the KoS.
>
>> <Linsha made a mistake on her first assignment.>
>Star Wars Episode IVa: Killing the Death Star Engineers
As long as Episode IVb involves the firing of all Lucasfilm animators
who believe each film must have a cute, toy selling character.
>I just think the KoS deserve a true exploration
So do I.
<You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
>'Saga peasant?' I understood it was a social class function: if your
>daddy was a farmer then you can't get in.
I only played one game and read the box once, but I was referring to that
section on creating your character and how one of the classes could be
a peasant.
> I don't like the idea of that, because unlike a lot of other orders the
> foremost imperative *isn't* the protection of the ruling class. Surely
> escaped slaves and burned-out peasants would be nicely motivated.
> Social class is an artificial requirement and only diverts more applicants
> to the LoS.
How does the KoS fund itself, since it doesn't help itself to the spoils of
war? If it relies on the wealth of its members to keep itself going as an
organization, then letting in anyone who can't pay the membership fee
would guarantee the collapse of the KoS.
>
>> >> <Linsha joined the KoS because of the Majere heroic legacy>
>> And that's the crux of the matter -- the KoS can't adopt a blanket "this
>> person's got to die, does it matter how?" mentality.
>Sanction doesn't have an effective police force, and vigilante justice
>would probably be the norm anyway. Sure he hasn't hurt *her*, but by
>definition he's a violent bastard. So hack him or hit him over the head
>from behind.
If "Lynn" intervenes on behalf of someone getting mugged, she risks
blowing her cover. If she picks a fight with someone she hasn't caught
committing a crime, then "Lynn" is going against the Measure.
>
>> <Linsha takes after both Palin and Caramon, who wanted to adventure
>> when young>
>left to his own devices maybe he would have set himself up in business.
>He wasn't stupid, and could have turned enough of a profit from manual
>labour to set up a shop etc.
Caramon? The guy who left all the counting and money management to
Raistlin? When Caramon returned to Solace after Chronicles, he
continued to take up mercenary related work.
>
>> >> <The moral ambiguity of the LoS should not be emulated by the KoS>
>you also don't make a threat you're not willing to carry out - unless a
>bluff is workable.
Agreement again -- a nicely mellow Koalataur must have gotten his hands
on an exceptional crop of eucalyptus leaves.
>The LoS being portrayed more like Harpers, you've got to wonder if
>they'd adopt the 'shoot the hostage' mentality. Belgariad morality?
Belgarath morality, to be specific. Polgara hasn't killed in over 4,000
years. I think the LoS would be the perfect characters to exhibit the
"shoot the hostage" mentality but no one's taken that chance with them.
>
>I always was suspicious of the LoS
It would violate AFDL continuity if you weren't.
>
<KoS resembles 1945 America without the USSR threat>
>however, the looming USSR certainly forced them together. Otherwise
>shock/horror we might have seen countries cutting their own little deals
>> <The KoS don't rule Solamnia, but have a first obligation to it>
>> >they got more global than that...
>>
>> Yes, but they run the organization from Solamnia.
>
>is Sancrist actually part of Solamnia?
I thought so.
>> Per The Puppet King, it was only the younger generation that was
>> against Rashas, with minor exceptions.
>
>I was talking about the motivations of those who supported him
The characters who supported Rashas wanted to keep trade going.
They still would have sold out the KoS just to get their goods shipped.
>> Sure the elves have noticed the KoS and the reaction has been
>> somewhere along the lines of "get away from me kid, you bother me."
>
>when they're obviously so powerful and important to defence...
They were important to defense during the WotL but the elves turned
tail and ran then, too.
>> The elves practice Marie Antoinette politics -- everyone else can eat cake
>> unless the elves themselves are threatened. The KoS can live without
>> allies like that.
>
>and the best way to turn them around is...
Beats me. I'm sure they'll find a way to blame the dragon overlord
problem on humans, too.
>
>> The elves were scared of all humans because they blamed them for all
>> of Krynn's problems -- the Kingpriest was human, after all. The elves
>> did not want the KoS intruding in their affairs, but they didn't fear them
>> as a political entity.
>
>bring them together and roll out the trust
How many times do they have to come together to inspire trust? What
about the council of Whitestone?
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>> But you've been volunteering information about yourself. Linsha hasn't.
>
>She might as well have. It would be stupid to believe she wouldn't be
>investigated by anybody.
Her mistake was letting the emotions get the upper hand. She saw
what she wanted to see in what's his name.
>
>> >> Moral compass issue. She'd have to pick the fight, and probably kill
>> the guy.
>
>...who had it coming by definition
But if he's not caught in the act, it's murder. And if he is, her cover is
blown.
>
>> I agree, elven aging is a major continuity gaps in DL. But I don't see
>> the elves changing their opinions of the KoS at all -- they're ignoring
>> them now the same way they did pre-WotL.
>
>Which is kinda stupid considering that they fought on the same side and
>were actually brought together. It's like every book after Legends
>chose to ignore Chronicles.
The elves are exhibiting parental memory -- my mother always reminds me
to be careful with my sweater because I lost one when I was in high school.
Never mind the fact that I haven't lost one since.
>
>> Per your own reasoning, the majority of the guys who followed Crownguard
>> are dead, so it's the Sturm fan club that's running the show.
>
>take out a contract on Jeff Crook?
Jeff's knights are "good old days" revisionists, so that's not a continuity
violation.
>
>> >Cool. I'll let my mind wander to celebrate.
>>
>> Be sure to take a map so you don't get lost.
>
>I'm back
That's good. You have to walk Bunsen now.
>
>> Whose urges? The KoS or the elves? At least when the KoS attempted to
>> urge with the KoT, they were going to put in strictures around honor. The
>> elves just sold out.
>
>basically they should have all stuck together and worked things out
Yes they should have. But the elves dropped the ball, not the KoS.
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
>> >> >First DL underwear and now this. Eww. Don't ask him to pinch you.
>> >>
>> >> It's getting him to stop that's the problem.
>> >
>> >madonna huh?
>>
>> Of course. Never said he was pinching me.
>
>strongly implied. Do I want to know what this plane-hopping fictional
>character was doing then?
No, , let's preserve that boyish innocence for just a bit longer.
>
<Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
>> I'd forgotten the piece about it being harder to vote out the ruling party.
>> But it's not as if Queen Elizabeth will kick out a party she doesn't
>> approve of.
>
>Of course not. She bound herself by not intervening in '75. However,
>there's always that 'Hitler Clause' whereby she could decline assent to
>a really repellent law, sack a psychotic PM etc. And more to the point,
>she could decline to sack the Governor-General, who is now less likely
>to use his powers because the PM can directly sack him.
The PM has other ambitious would-be PMs to hold him in check.
>
>> >I'd have to watch Yes Prime Minister to figure out the details. All I
>> >know is that it scared Humphrey Appleby into action...
>>
>> Humph saw his share of lobby dollars dwindling.
>
>more worried about actual representative government. That socialist
>lady in the same episode was a hoot.
I'm rather fond of Francis Urnquist myself.
>
>> Mr. Fat is my kind of guy then, protecting defenseless grain from abuse.
>
>okay. I understand 'Chow' is actually his surname.
Oops. Forgot the surname comes first, and Chow Yun Fat is traditional.
>ever heard of Milwaukee's most famous chef?
Mr. Brewer? Mr. Budweiser? Mr Miller?
>
>> >...and I'm going to make it five days running where I've played some
>> >kind of RPG by finishing off the Werewolf game tomorrow...
>>
>> Not having school is fun isn't it? Ah, the good old days...
>
>dammit I've got to study!!!!!!
That's it -- turn over the PC to Simon and get to work, young man.
>
>> <Cyberpunk game explodes with action>
>>
>> Nice of you to nurture newbies along -- I find it amusing that they're
>still kicking while the original players are gone.
>
>The one moving interstate was just spoiling for a fight, and decided on
>something bloody stupid.
Nice to go out with a bang, I suppose. You guys can always go the MUD
route if your short on players.
>
>> So if the Castrato decides to show up for the next session, does he
>> get in?
>
>good question :)
Poor Castrato -- I can hear the wheels turning inside your head from here.
>
>> >May your paper bags be brown and bulging
>>
>> They are -- it's Halloween.
>
>I thought kickbacks were normally received during business hours.
Candy collection runs from 9:00 to 6:00. I also won the Halloween contest
Tolstrup
> game picks up again>
> If you pick up the game then, doesn't that mean automatic npc status
> for Sean?
no. He's possibly the only person on the planet with the motivation and
potential to reconcile a schism older than human civilisation. And he's
the No.1 candidate to get throated if something goes wrong in this town.
We've been thinking episodic. He's also thinking about proving his
attunement to the Wyld by wreaking havoc in the middle of a city. He's
not about to become an npc.
> <The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
> >> It wasn't meant to be ambiguous, of course. But Ryan didn't get too
> >> many takers swearing that the picture was a dagger.
> >
> >I think a nun who's been cloistered her entire life would realise that
> >was nowhere near anatomically correct.
>
> How's a madonna supposed to answer that one?
same as your smutty comments about Dalamar
And it's not as if the
> thing screamed *dagger* -- one guy called it a syringe.
So I had a somewhat wide hilt. Maybe it's a stiletto.
> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
> >Remember, what we're used to involves humans. Souls are probably
> >another thing entirely.
>
> I don't see souls being disengaged from emotions even when separated
> from the human body. That's why I don't see them in harmonic agreement.
if we're talking about the subconscious pure state of the soul (and
you're an archetype to get 'elected') then certainly pettiness has gone
out the window.
> <Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
> >putting an imposter on the throne and icing Ariakas doesn't necessarily
> >make a good general. By that logic Chaos should have just taken Takhy's
> >job as he was qualified.
>
> Chaos didn't need to be a good general, he had power. Chaos wasn't
> exactly filled with the subtlety it would take to pull an imposter switch
> either.
I take it Mr Switcher has some good military advisors.
> >> How is this thread being on AFDL related to cold?
> >
> >!@#$%^& I can't remember
>
> Ahh, poetry. I remember, but I'm not telling.
time for some Chainsaw Art
> <A fourth Solamnic order to handle covert activities is a good idea>
> >To me she seemed too young for a Rose. More likely we'd see some kind
> >of 'Office of Management Analysis' buried in the Crown order or support
> >staff - especially the KoS need bureaucrats.
>
> Sometimes, in order to change the culture of an organization, a firm
> promotes younger than usual, and this may be the case with the KoS.
> While the Crown knights might act as support staff, I see the Rose knights
> in peacetime as the strategic thinkers that do the planning, like the board
> of directors of a company.
scary, but Linsha's starting to sound like Sean - promoted way beyond
the normal rules, into a position standing alone in the open with no
preparation (sixteen year-old Chief Diplomat anybody?)
I understood the orders to be more like a multicameral Parliament -
theoretically equal, separate and no 'High Warrior takes orders from a
Knight of Tears.' It's meant to be a state of commitment and honour
etc. Probably there are inter-order planning units.
> >It's common sense to use non-Rose knights - I can't remember seeing a
> >figure, but logic dictates that there be about eight Crown knights per Sword
> > and sixteen per Rose.
>
> Yep, a covert order should not be the place where you risk the lives of the
> Rose knights, whose order is supposed to be the creme of the crop and
> are privy to the inner secrets of the KoS.
I'm presuming Linsha was advanced secretly. Otherwise it's ridiculous
for a Rose Knight to just drop out of sight like that. Crown knights at
least are numerous enough that you don't instantly notice one missing.
> >> <Linsha made a mistake on her first assignment.>
> >Star Wars Episode IVa: Killing the Death Star Engineers
> As long as Episode IVb involves the firing of all Lucasfilm animators
> who believe each film must have a cute, toy selling character.
firing squad
> >I just think the KoS deserve a true exploration
>
> So do I.
Oath and the Measure, Knights of the Crown, " Sword, " Rose, Wayward
Knights, Vinas Solamnus, Rose & the Skull.... NONE of them adequately
explored the knighthood. They're supposed to *build on* what came in
the sourcebook.
> <You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
> >'Saga peasant?' I understood it was a social class function: if your
> >daddy was a farmer then you can't get in.
>
> I only played one game and read the box once, but I was referring to that
> section on creating your character and how one of the classes could be
> a peasant.
if a peasant's got the ideology and commitment and has something to
offer, a knighthood should be forthcoming. And they shouldn't make
military potential the only or even primary determiner - I want to see
wizards and engineers as full knights.
> > I don't like the idea of that, because unlike a lot of other orders the
> > foremost imperative *isn't* the protection of the ruling class. Surely
> > escaped slaves and burned-out peasants would be nicely motivated.
> > Social class is an artificial requirement and only diverts more applicants
> > to the LoS.
>
> How does the KoS fund itself, since it doesn't help itself to the spoils of
> war? If it relies on the wealth of its members to keep itself going as an
> organization, then letting in anyone who can't pay the membership fee
> would guarantee the collapse of the KoS.
They have in the past let in plenty of people who had a small problem
with lack of livelihood. The KoS can still have a financial arm;
certainly a lot of its income would come from the land it controls, and
with that much money they could function as a bank like the Templars.
> >> >> <Linsha joined the KoS because of the Majere heroic legacy>
> >Sanction doesn't have an effective police force, and vigilante justice
> >would probably be the norm anyway. Sure he hasn't hurt *her*, but by
> >definition he's a violent bastard. So hack him or hit him over the head
> >from behind.
>
> If "Lynn" intervenes on behalf of someone getting mugged, she risks
> blowing her cover. If she picks a fight with someone she hasn't caught
> committing a crime, then "Lynn" is going against the Measure.
if she knows somebody did it, beat the shit out of them. Personally I'd
get a legit job, say as a sleazy security guard.
> >> <Linsha takes after both Palin and Caramon, who wanted to adventure
> >> when young>
> >left to his own devices maybe he would have set himself up in business.
> >He wasn't stupid, and could have turned enough of a profit from manual
> >labour to set up a shop etc.
>
> Caramon? The guy who left all the counting and money management to
> Raistlin? When Caramon returned to Solace after Chronicles, he
> continued to take up mercenary related work.
Lifetime habit, and he was clearly settling into normal life.
> >> >> <The moral ambiguity of the LoS should not be emulated by the KoS>
> >you also don't make a threat you're not willing to carry out - unless a
> >bluff is workable.
>
> Agreement again -- a nicely mellow Koalataur must have gotten his hands
> on an exceptional crop of eucalyptus leaves.
you don't want to know
> >The LoS being portrayed more like Harpers, you've got to wonder if
> >they'd adopt the 'shoot the hostage' mentality. Belgariad morality?
>
> Belgarath morality, to be specific. Polgara hasn't killed in over 4,000
> years. I think the LoS would be the perfect characters to exhibit the
> "shoot the hostage" mentality but no one's taken that chance with them.
if the LoS are meant to be as honourable as the others only focussed on
'the people' (which is what the KoS *should be doing*, ie the LoS is
redundant) then why should they be morally different? And yes, I think
Eddings is something of a bastard.
> >I always was suspicious of the LoS
> It would violate AFDL continuity if you weren't.
soon I will have the Deja access code, and History Will Be Mine!!!!
> >> <The KoS don't rule Solamnia, but have a first obligation to it>
> >is Sancrist actually part of Solamnia?
>
> I thought so.
Gets confusing, doesn't it? Sancrist sounds like another Bangladesh.
> >> Per The Puppet King, it was only the younger generation that was
> >> against Rashas, with minor exceptions.
> >
> >I was talking about the motivations of those who supported him
>
> The characters who supported Rashas wanted to keep trade going.
> They still would have sold out the KoS just to get their goods shipped.
So we're sure they were all greedy bastards, and not more like misguided
conservatives who didn't see the KoS as feasible allies?
> >> Sure the elves have noticed the KoS and the reaction has been
> >> somewhere along the lines of "get away from me kid, you bother me."
> >
> >when they're obviously so powerful and important to defence...
>
> They were important to defense during the WotL but the elves turned
> tail and ran then, too.
Then it hadn't occurred to them that the KoS would help them.
> >> The elves practice Marie Antoinette politics -- everyone else can eat cake
> >> unless the elves themselves are threatened. The KoS can live without
> >> allies like that.
> >
> >and the best way to turn them around is...
>
> Beats me. I'm sure they'll find a way to blame the dragon overlord
> problem on humans, too.
Either blow them up, or change their culture. Best way is through
contact with actual humans on a regular basis.
> >> The elves were scared of all humans because they blamed them for all
> >> of Krynn's problems -- the Kingpriest was human, after all. The elves
> >> did not want the KoS intruding in their affairs, but they didn't fear them
> >> as a political entity.
> >
> >bring them together and roll out the trust
>
> How many times do they have to come together to inspire trust? What
> about the council of Whitestone?
the dragon orb's mine!
> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>
> >> But you've been volunteering information about yourself. Linsha hasn't.
> >
> >She might as well have. It would be stupid to believe she wouldn't be
> >investigated by anybody.
>
> Her mistake was letting the emotions get the upper hand. She saw
> what she wanted to see in what's his name.
That was one mistake, which she couldn't plan for. The mistake I've
mentioned is the one I see as more serious.
> >> >> Moral compass issue. She'd have to pick the fight, and probably kill
> >> the guy.
> >
> >...who had it coming by definition
>
> But if he's not caught in the act, it's murder. And if he is, her cover is
> blown.
the lost art of investigation.... in Sanction it would be a quite
legitimate business to find out who the muggers are and roll them.
Certainly more lucrative than rolling people who don't necessarily have
money on them.
> >> I agree, elven aging is a major continuity gaps in DL. But I don't see
> >> the elves changing their opinions of the KoS at all -- they're ignoring
> >> them now the same way they did pre-WotL.
> >
> >Which is kinda stupid considering that they fought on the same side and
> >were actually brought together. It's like every book after Legends
> >chose to ignore Chronicles.
>
> The elves are exhibiting parental memory -- my mother always reminds me
> to be careful with my sweater because I lost one when I was in high school.
> Never mind the fact that I haven't lost one since.
isn't 25 years more like one to elves? They'd still be reeling.
> >> Per your own reasoning, the majority of the guys who followed Crownguard
> >> are dead, so it's the Sturm fan club that's running the show.
> >
> >take out a contract on Jeff Crook?
>
> Jeff's knights are "good old days" revisionists, so that's not a continuity
> violation.
Gunthar's age is off by about forty years. Summer Flame is ignored and
all logic is discarded in the handling of the Measure issue.
> >> >Cool. I'll let my mind wander to celebrate.
> >>
> >> Be sure to take a map so you don't get lost.
> >
> >I'm back
>
> That's good. You have to walk Bunsen now.
he had a nice workout with a pallet of copies of Soulforge
> >> Whose urges? The KoS or the elves? At least when the KoS attempted to
> >> urge with the KoT, they were going to put in strictures around honor. The
> >> elves just sold out.
> >
> >basically they should have all stuck together and worked things out
>
> Yes they should have. But the elves dropped the ball, not the KoS.
both are to blame
> >> >> >> >> >> >> <Dalamar really likes his tub time>
> >> >madonna huh?
> >>
> >> Of course. Never said he was pinching me.
> >
> >strongly implied. Do I want to know what this plane-hopping fictional
> >character was doing then?
>
> No, , let's preserve that boyish innocence for just a bit longer.
you should drop in for my Cyberpunk game. You'll probably have to play
a man because the three men are playing women.
> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
> >Of course not. She bound herself by not intervening in '75. However,
> >there's always that 'Hitler Clause' whereby she could decline assent to
> >a really repellent law, sack a psychotic PM etc. And more to the point,
> >she could decline to sack the Governor-General, who is now less likely
> >to use his powers because the PM can directly sack him.
>
> The PM has other ambitious would-be PMs to hold him in check.
So all he has to do is get the rest of his Cabinet on side, probably by
making them partners.
> >> >I'd have to watch Yes Prime Minister to figure out the details. All I
> >> >know is that it scared Humphrey Appleby into action...
> >>
> >> Humph saw his share of lobby dollars dwindling.
> >
> >more worried about actual representative government. That socialist
> >lady in the same episode was a hoot.
>
> I'm rather fond of Francis Urnquist myself.
you saw that too? I only saw the last series, but I read the books.
Michael Dobbs is a nut case who wrote a deeply unpleasant 'killing
Hitler' book and something quite nasty about the reincarnation of the
Dalai Lama. But Urquhart is a *great* political antihero.
> >> Mr. Fat is my kind of guy then, protecting defenseless grain from abuse.
> >
> >okay. I understand 'Chow' is actually his surname.
>
> Oops. Forgot the surname comes first, and Chow Yun Fat is traditional.
he's waiting for you downstairs
> >ever heard of Milwaukee's most famous chef?
>
> Mr. Brewer? Mr. Budweiser? Mr Miller?
Mr Dahmer
> >dammit I've got to study!!!!!!
>
> That's it -- turn over the PC to Simon and get to work, young man.
pass the Ratsak. Me and Sean have the same idea.
> >> <Cyberpunk game explodes with action>
> >> Nice of you to nurture newbies along -- I find it amusing that they're
> >still kicking while the original players are gone.
> >The one moving interstate was just spoiling for a fight, and decided on
> >something bloody stupid.
>
> Nice to go out with a bang, I suppose. You guys can always go the MUD
> route if your short on players.
considering I run sessions that go for 8+ hours, I don't feel that rich.
I prefer to actually be with my players.
> >> So if the Castrato decides to show up for the next session, does he
> >> get in?
> >good question :)
>
> Poor Castrato -- I can hear the wheels turning inside your head from here.
the two newbies have never met him, and his partner committed suicide by
cops. I'd say still in hospital.
> >> >May your paper bags be brown and bulging
> >> They are -- it's Halloween.
> >I thought kickbacks were normally received during business hours.
>
> Candy collection runs from 9:00 to 6:00. I also won the Halloween contest
> at our office Halloween party and am looking forward to some shopping this
> weekend.
I was tempted to offer a few 'tricks' myself. Exactly what did you do
to win this contest?
Rohan Tolstrup, half-contemplating *another* NYPD novel
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
>> If you pick up the game then, doesn't that mean automatic npc status
>> for Sean?
<short answer, no>
Pretty powerful for 16. Sounds like Macauley Culkin on speed.
>
>> <The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
>> >I think a nun who's been cloistered her entire life would realise that
>> >was nowhere near anatomically correct.
>>
>> How's a madonna supposed to answer that one?
>
>same as your smutty comments about Dalamar
I was never the one who made references to Dalamar's genitalia, or
lack thereof.
>
>And it's not as if the
>> thing screamed *dagger* -- one guy called it a syringe.
>
>So I had a somewhat wide hilt. Maybe it's a stiletto.
Proves the point about it being ambiguous.
>
>> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>if we're talking about the subconscious pure state of the soul (and
>you're an archetype to get 'elected') then certainly pettiness has gone
>out the window.
I think I'm with Morten on this one. A soul that is missing the negatives
like pettiness would also be missing the positives like compassion. A
soul is either a tabula rasa or the source of emotions, and neither one
is complete enough to rule in the absence of the gods.
>
>> <Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
>I take it Mr Switcher has some good military advisors.
He'd have to be a superior strategist to pull a coup like that off.
>
>> >> How is this thread being on AFDL related to cold?
>> >
>> >!@#$%^& I can't remember
>>
>> Ahh, poetry. I remember, but I'm not telling.
>
>time for some Chainsaw Art
Is this something like the Texas Twostep? Thought you said you
didn't dance.
>
>> <A fourth Solamnic order to handle covert activities is a good idea>
>scary, but Linsha's starting to sound like Sean - promoted way beyond
>the normal rules, into a position standing alone in the open with no
>preparation (sixteen year-old Chief Diplomat anybody?)
Linsha can't be that young. She's already had her enlightenment
experience at the Whitestone and has finished studying with Goldmoon.
>I understood the orders to be more like a multicameral Parliament -
>theoretically equal, separate and no 'High Warrior takes orders from a
>Knight of Tears.' It's meant to be a state of commitment and honour
>etc. Probably there are inter-order planning units.
They have to have the inter order committees at least for managing
budgets, succession planning, and mobilization in the event of war.
>
>I'm presuming Linsha was advanced secretly. Otherwise it's ridiculous
>for a Rose Knight to just drop out of sight like that. Crown knights at
>least are numerous enough that you don't instantly notice one missing.
Linsha might have been trained as part of a special unit that was
isolated from the other knights and this insulation from the world might
help explain her early naivete. I would think it happened after she became
a Rose knight because she was already promoted by the time she had her
metaphysical experience at Whitestone.
>Oath and the Measure, Knights of the Crown, " Sword, " Rose, Wayward
>Knights, Vinas Solamnus, Rose & the Skull.... NONE of them adequately
>explored the knighthood. They're supposed to *build on* what came in
>the sourcebook.
The sun'll come out, tomorrow, clear away the cobwebs and the sorrow...
There's always the 5th Age to look forward to.
>
>> <You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
>if a peasant's got the ideology and commitment and has something to
>offer, a knighthood should be forthcoming. And they shouldn't make
>military potential the only or even primary determiner - I want to see
>wizards and engineers as full knights.
I want to see a draconian as a KoS, but that's another story. The
likely recruit has to be someone who has some talent he can contribute
to the KoS, and it would be the exceptional peasant who can fit that bill.
The KoS, as a self supported organization can't become a charity.
I would imagine that part of the reason that wizards were excluded in the
past is because they would not have been 100% devoted to Paladine, Kiri-
Jolith, or Habbakuk. So there really is nothing to stop war-wizards from
being KoS.
>
>They have in the past let in plenty of people who had a small problem
>with lack of livelihood. The KoS can still have a financial arm;
>certainly a lot of its income would come from the land it controls, and
>with that much money they could function as a bank like the Templars.
Sturm was let in partially because Gunthar was bankrolling him. And
isn't a donation of most of one's fortune a requirement for advancement
in the knighthood?
>
>> >> >> <Linsha joined the KoS because of the Majere heroic legacy>
>if she knows somebody did it, beat the shit out of them. Personally I'd
>get a legit job, say as a sleazy security guard.
And what happens if she's asked to kill someone who can't pay extortion?
She kills and violatest the Measure?
>
<Caramon wanted to adventure when young>
>
>Lifetime habit, and he was clearly settling into normal life.
After the booze, of course. Before the booze he was ready to follow
Raistlin to the tower at Palanthas.
>> Agreement again -- a nicely mellow Koalataur must have gotten his hands
>> on an exceptional crop of eucalyptus leaves.
>
>you don't want to know
You're right, victimizing a tree for a vicarious thrill is not something I want
to hear about.
>> Belgarath morality, to be specific. Polgara hasn't killed in over 4,000
>> years. I think the LoS would be the perfect characters to exhibit the
>> "shoot the hostage" mentality but no one's taken that chance with them.
>
>if the LoS are meant to be as honourable as the others only focussed on
>'the people' (which is what the KoS *should be doing*, ie the LoS is
>redundant) then why should they be morally different? And yes, I think
>Eddings is something of a bastard.
And that's why I think the LoS should not be as honorable as the others,
in that they should not follow set rules on how to behave. A group that
believes in the "all we have is each other" principle and follows a "ways
justifies the means" philosophy would be integrally different to both
knighthoods.
And I think Eddings would be just the man to write true neutrals as they
were meant to be written -- Polgara is so much like Astinus at times that
she could be Lunitari's mother.
>
>> >I always was suspicious of the LoS
>> It would violate AFDL continuity if you weren't.
>
>soon I will have the Deja access code, and History Will Be Mine!!!!
You can't divert the flow of the River of Time -- you'll just repeat history
as Stig and be caught in a time loop swearing Raistlin is a woman.
>
>> >> <The KoS don't rule Solamnia, but have a first obligation to it>
>> >is Sancrist actually part of Solamnia?
>>
>> I thought so.
>
>Gets confusing, doesn't it? Sancrist sounds like another Bangladesh.
The cultural ties and historical ties are still there for the KoS.
>
>> The characters who supported Rashas wanted to keep trade going.
>> They still would have sold out the KoS just to get their goods shipped.
>
>So we're sure they were all greedy bastards, and not more like misguided
>conservatives who didn't see the KoS as feasible allies?
Misguided conservatives would have cut off their right arms before making
a deal with the knights of a goddess they despise.
>
>> They were important to defense during the WotL but the elves turned
>> tail and ran then, too.
>
>Then it hadn't occurred to them that the KoS would help them.
And it didn't occur to them that supporting the KoT would make them
the enemies of the KoS and Paladine?
>
>Either blow them up, or change their culture. Best way is through
>contact with actual humans on a regular basis.
The elves have got to want to see humans on a regular basis or else
they're seen as annoying pests at best.
>> How many times do they have to come together to inspire trust? What
>> about the council of Whitestone?
>
>the dragon orb's mine!
And afterwards, when they realized that a god had lectured them on how
stupid they were all being? The elves got the teamwork lecture from
Paladine himself, and they still remained hidebound.
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>> Her mistake was letting the emotions get the upper hand. She saw
>> what she wanted to see in what's his name.
>
>That was one mistake, which she couldn't plan for. The mistake I've
>mentioned is the one I see as more serious.
Linsha picked "hide in plain sight" and picked wrong. Novice spies
make mistakes and she was lucky enough to survive hers.
>
>the lost art of investigation.... in Sanction it would be a quite
>legitimate business to find out who the muggers are and roll them.
>Certainly more lucrative than rolling people who don't necessarily have
>money on them.
Okay, Linsha mugs the muggers and makes cash. Doesn't this make
her a mark for other muggers, if they all follow this catch of the day
strategy?
>
<Elven aging and memory is a known DL continuity issue>
>> The elves are exhibiting parental memory -- my mother always reminds me
>> to be careful with my sweater because I lost one when I was in high school.
>> Never mind the fact that I haven't lost one since.
>
>isn't 25 years more like one to elves? They'd still be reeling.
Reeling? Maybe. But they should also have Sturm's sacrifice clearly
in mind also.
>
>> Jeff's knights are "good old days" revisionists, so that's not a continuity
>> violation.
>
>Gunthar's age is off by about forty years. Summer Flame is ignored and
>all logic is discarded in the handling of the Measure issue.
I agree that Gunthar's age is messed up and Sir Thomas is gone, but I
still don't think the handling of the Measure is logically inconsistent. I've
just seen too many examples of things like that being pushed to the side
in the real world.
>
>> >basically they should have all stuck together and worked things out
>>
>> Yes they should have. But the elves dropped the ball, not the KoS.
>
>both are to blame
But the elves have the heavier burden because they don't want to change
at all.
>
>> >> >madonna huh?
>> >>
>> >> Of course. Never said he was pinching me.
>> >
>> >strongly implied. Do I want to know what this plane-hopping fictional
>> >character was doing then?
>>
>> No, , let's preserve that boyish innocence for just a bit longer.
>
>you should drop in for my Cyberpunk game. You'll probably have to play
>a man because the three men are playing women.
Challenging, but it can be done. I'll just combine the posting personalities
of Morten, Frank and Steve Miller and see what shakes out.
>
>> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
>> The PM has other ambitious would-be PMs to hold him in check.
>
>So all he has to do is get the rest of his Cabinet on side, probably by
>making them partners.
Think the black robe contingent of the Conclave. One side of the mouth
agrees, the other is plotting an overthrow.
>
>> I'm rather fond of Francis Urnquist myself.
>
>you saw that too? I only saw the last series, but I read the books.
>Michael Dobbs is a nut case who wrote a deeply unpleasant 'killing
>Hitler' book and something quite nasty about the reincarnation of the
>Dalai Lama. But Urquhart is a *great* political antihero.
Urquhart -- that's the name I was fishing for. They've given the series
here as part of Masterpiece Theatre. Francis rules.
For some reason, contemporary political satire isn't done well on series
TV here.
>> Oops. Forgot the surname comes first, and Chow Yun Fat is traditional.
>
>he's waiting for you downstairs
I've got milk but no cookies. He'll have to settle for pound cake.
>
>> >ever heard of Milwaukee's most famous chef?
>>
>> Mr. Brewer? Mr. Budweiser? Mr Miller?
>
>Mr Dahmer
He's dead, Jim.
>> >> <Cyberpunk game explodes with action>
>> Nice to go out with a bang, I suppose. You guys can always go the MUD
>> route if your short on players.
>
>considering I run sessions that go for 8+ hours, I don't feel that rich.
>I prefer to actually be with my players.
<Sniffle> Oh how touching. Such devotion.
<Altie won the office Halloween contest>
>
>I was tempted to offer a few 'tricks' myself.
First the military, then HR, now prostitution? Your career couselor is
certainly giving you a wide range of occupations to choose from.
>Exactly what did you do to win this contest?
Wouldn't you like to know?
Actually I won the trivia contest. I knew white roses repel vampires
just like garlic does.
Tolstrup
> <short answer, no>
>
> Pretty powerful for 16. Sounds like Macauley Culkin on speed.
His mind's in its twenties at least. And he doesn't do cute.
> >> <The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
> >> How's a madonna supposed to answer that one?
> >
> >same as your smutty comments about Dalamar
> I was never the one who made references to Dalamar's genitalia, or
> lack thereof.
yeah, just everything else
> >And it's not as if the
> >> thing screamed *dagger* -- one guy called it a syringe.
> >
> >So I had a somewhat wide hilt. Maybe it's a stiletto.
>
> Proves the point about it being ambiguous.
one of several things it most certainly *didn't* resemble...
> >> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
> >if we're talking about the subconscious pure state of the soul (and
> >you're an archetype to get 'elected') then certainly pettiness has gone
> >out the window.
>
> I think I'm with Morten on this one. A soul that is missing the negatives
> like pettiness would also be missing the positives like compassion. A
> soul is either a tabula rasa or the source of emotions, and neither one
> is complete enough to rule in the absence of the gods.
so we can have conventional parliamentary debate - at a speed faster
than light
> >> <Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
> >I take it Mr Switcher has some good military advisors.
> He'd have to be a superior strategist to pull a coup like that off.
know the right people and swap the boss
> >> >> How is this thread being on AFDL related to cold?
> >> >!@#$%^& I can't remember
> >> Ahh, poetry. I remember, but I'm not telling.
> >time for some Chainsaw Art
>
> Is this something like the Texas Twostep? Thought you said you
> didn't dance.
I don't. It's more of a roleplaying maneuvre.
> >> <A fourth Solamnic order to handle covert activities is a good idea>
> >scary, but Linsha's starting to sound like Sean - promoted way beyond
> >the normal rules, into a position standing alone in the open with no
> >preparation (sixteen year-old Chief Diplomat anybody?)
>
> Linsha can't be that young. She's already had her enlightenment
> experience at the Whitestone and has finished studying with Goldmoon.
a Rose knight in her early twenties? You'd expect 'em to be at least 30
> >I understood the orders to be more like a multicameral Parliament -
> >theoretically equal, separate and no 'High Warrior takes orders from a
> >Knight of Tears.' It's meant to be a state of commitment and honour
> >etc. Probably there are inter-order planning units.
>
> They have to have the inter order committees at least for managing
> budgets, succession planning, and mobilization in the event of war.
give us a nice fat sourcebook with a chapter on the support arm :)
> >I'm presuming Linsha was advanced secretly. Otherwise it's ridiculous
> >for a Rose Knight to just drop out of sight like that. Crown knights at
> >least are numerous enough that you don't instantly notice one missing.
>
> Linsha might have been trained as part of a special unit that was
> isolated from the other knights and this insulation from the world might
> help explain her early naivete. I would think it happened after she became
> a Rose knight because she was already promoted by the time she had her
> metaphysical experience at Whitestone.
so she was a Rose *before* she was grabbed for undercover work? Why not
just send the Grand Master to pimp for a bunch of undercover Revered
Daughters of Paladine and elven princesses?
> >Oath and the Measure, Knights of the Crown, " Sword, " Rose, Wayward
> >Knights, Vinas Solamnus, Rose & the Skull.... NONE of them adequately
> >explored the knighthood. They're supposed to *build on* what came in
> >the sourcebook.
>
> The sun'll come out, tomorrow, clear away the cobwebs and the sorrow...
> There's always the 5th Age to look forward to.
yeah bloody right. Never even explained the fourth age, and there's
been enough false starts I wonder if I'm just going on inertia.
> >> <You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
> >if a peasant's got the ideology and commitment and has something to
> >offer, a knighthood should be forthcoming. And they shouldn't make
> >military potential the only or even primary determiner - I want to see
> >wizards and engineers as full knights.
>
> I want to see a draconian as a KoS, but that's another story. The
> likely recruit has to be someone who has some talent he can contribute
> to the KoS, and it would be the exceptional peasant who can fit that bill.
> The KoS, as a self supported organization can't become a charity.
of course not. It's a private army with extensive property holdings.
> I would imagine that part of the reason that wizards were excluded in the
> past is because they would not have been 100% devoted to Paladine, Kiri-
> Jolith, or Habbakuk. So there really is nothing to stop war-wizards from
> being KoS.
I doubt the three orders would become divine private armies if those
three had a schism over say wilderness. If we can have orders dedicated
to Habbakuk and Kiri-Jolith *as well as* Paladine, then why not
Solinari? Main reason was bigotry.
> >They have in the past let in plenty of people who had a small problem
> >with lack of livelihood. The KoS can still have a financial arm;
> >certainly a lot of its income would come from the land it controls, and
> >with that much money they could function as a bank like the Templars.
>
> Sturm was let in partially because Gunthar was bankrolling him. And
> isn't a donation of most of one's fortune a requirement for advancement
> in the knighthood?
Sounds ambiguous. Probably they chuck in what they personally own, and
as they advance in rank they increasingly handle more KoS property. If
the KoS can ever reclaim the huge tracts of Solamnia they originally
owned, then they'd be self-supporting.
> >> >> >> <Linsha joined the KoS because of the Majere heroic legacy>
> >if she knows somebody did it, beat the shit out of them. Personally I'd
> >get a legit job, say as a sleazy security guard.
>
> And what happens if she's asked to kill someone who can't pay extortion?
> She kills and violatest the Measure?
She'd actually be a security guard for merchants. She wouldn't need to
get into that kind of crap. She can swear, drink too much etc without
actually hurting innocent people.
> <Caramon wanted to adventure when young>
> >Lifetime habit, and he was clearly settling into normal life.
> After the booze, of course. Before the booze he was ready to follow
> Raistlin to the tower at Palanthas.
without Raistlin and Kitiara he would have become just another farmer,
and without Raist he probably would've just retired after a few jobs.
> >> Agreement again -- a nicely mellow Koalataur must have gotten his hands
> >> on an exceptional crop of eucalyptus leaves.
> >
> >you don't want to know
>
> You're right, victimizing a tree for a vicarious thrill is not something I want
> to hear about.
a tree, you think?
> >if the LoS are meant to be as honourable as the others only focussed on
> >'the people' (which is what the KoS *should be doing*, ie the LoS is
> >redundant) then why should they be morally different? And yes, I think
> >Eddings is something of a bastard.
>
> And that's why I think the LoS should not be as honorable as the others,
> in that they should not follow set rules on how to behave. A group that
> believes in the "all we have is each other" principle and follows a "ways
> justifies the means" philosophy would be integrally different to both
> knighthoods.
Where do we get 'ends justify means' from LoS? Just because you raid
their weakest point instead of having a set-piece doesn't cut it.
> And I think Eddings would be just the man to write true neutrals as they
> were meant to be written -- Polgara is so much like Astinus at times that
> she could be Lunitari's mother.
I'd call them more 'neutral good.' They mean well, but their job isn't
to become immortal paladins and they mainly tackle stuff like fighting
gods and stopping a second ice age.
> >> >I always was suspicious of the LoS
> >> It would violate AFDL continuity if you weren't.
> >
> >soon I will have the Deja access code, and History Will Be Mine!!!!
>
> You can't divert the flow of the River of Time -- you'll just repeat history
> as Stig and be caught in a time loop swearing Raistlin is a woman.
<rack>
> >> >> <The KoS don't rule Solamnia, but have a first obligation to it>
> >> >is Sancrist actually part of Solamnia?
> >>
> >> I thought so.
> >
> >Gets confusing, doesn't it? Sancrist sounds like another Bangladesh.
>
> The cultural ties and historical ties are still there for the KoS.
yep. Ok, so it's Taiwan.
> >So we're sure they were all greedy bastards, and not more like misguided
> >conservatives who didn't see the KoS as feasible allies?
>
> Misguided conservatives would have cut off their right arms before making
> a deal with the knights of a goddess they despise.
pragmatic conservatives would realise the KoT outnumber them 3+:1 and
are quite capable of genocide.
> >> They were important to defense during the WotL but the elves turned
> >> tail and ran then, too.
> >
> >Then it hadn't occurred to them that the KoS would help them.
>
> And it didn't occur to them that supporting the KoT would make them
> the enemies of the KoS and Paladine?
not exactly a free choice, was it?
> >Either blow them up, or change their culture. Best way is through
> >contact with actual humans on a regular basis.
>
> The elves have got to want to see humans on a regular basis or else
> they're seen as annoying pests at best.
Korodullin & Mayaserana?
> >> How many times do they have to come together to inspire trust? What
> >> about the council of Whitestone?
> >
> >the dragon orb's mine!
>
> And afterwards, when they realized that a god had lectured them on how
> stupid they were all being? The elves got the teamwork lecture from
> Paladine himself, and they still remained hidebound.
TSR remained buried in a huge pile of cocaine?
> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>
> >> Her mistake was letting the emotions get the upper hand. She saw
> >> what she wanted to see in what's his name.
> >
> >That was one mistake, which she couldn't plan for. The mistake I've
> >mentioned is the one I see as more serious.
>
> Linsha picked "hide in plain sight" and picked wrong. Novice spies
> make mistakes and she was lucky enough to survive hers.
'hide in plain sight' is probably intended for the kind of operation
where you've got armed backup five seconds away and your cover's meant
to last for a few hours
> >the lost art of investigation.... in Sanction it would be a quite
> >legitimate business to find out who the muggers are and roll them.
> >Certainly more lucrative than rolling people who don't necessarily have
> >money on them.
>
> Okay, Linsha mugs the muggers and makes cash. Doesn't this make
> her a mark for other muggers, if they all follow this catch of the day
> strategy?
subtlety is a fine thing. Balaclava?
> <Elven aging and memory is a known DL continuity issue>
> >> The elves are exhibiting parental memory -- my mother always reminds me
> >> to be careful with my sweater because I lost one when I was in high school.
> >> Never mind the fact that I haven't lost one since.
> >
> >isn't 25 years more like one to elves? They'd still be reeling.
>
> Reeling? Maybe. But they should also have Sturm's sacrifice clearly
> in mind also.
exactly. Hands up who thought DoSF was realistic?
> >> Jeff's knights are "good old days" revisionists, so that's not a continuity
> >> violation.
> >
> >Gunthar's age is off by about forty years. Summer Flame is ignored and
> >all logic is discarded in the handling of the Measure issue.
>
> I agree that Gunthar's age is messed up and Sir Thomas is gone, but I
> still don't think the handling of the Measure is logically inconsistent. I've
> just seen too many examples of things like that being pushed to the side
> in the real world.
But Gunthar, on his own? It's not exactly an obscure issue nobody is
interested in.
> >both are to blame
>
> But the elves have the heavier burden because they don't want to change
> at all.
then they must be persuaded to change. Dragon Slave
> >> No, , let's preserve that boyish innocence for just a bit longer.
> >
> >you should drop in for my Cyberpunk game. You'll probably have to play
> >a man because the three men are playing women.
>
> Challenging, but it can be done. I'll just combine the posting personalities
> of Morten, Frank and Steve Miller and see what shakes out.
you might need more than just a Colt Enforcement 10 then.
> >> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
> >> The PM has other ambitious would-be PMs to hold him in check.
> >So all he has to do is get the rest of his Cabinet on side, probably by
> >making them partners.
>
> Think the black robe contingent of the Conclave. One side of the mouth
> agrees, the other is plotting an overthrow.
Hitler had a fair run
> >> I'm rather fond of Francis Urnquist myself.
> >
> >you saw that too? I only saw the last series, but I read the books.
> >Michael Dobbs is a nut case who wrote a deeply unpleasant 'killing
> >Hitler' book and something quite nasty about the reincarnation of the
> >Dalai Lama. But Urquhart is a *great* political antihero.
>
> Urquhart -- that's the name I was fishing for. They've given the series
> here as part of Masterpiece Theatre. Francis rules.
He orchestrated his own assassination. What more can you say?
> For some reason, contemporary political satire isn't done well on series
> TV here.
who can you send up? You couldn't have a F.U.-style Prez, because as
Head of State it'd be like taking an axe to America. Come on, let's see
America produce a Yes Minister.
> >> Oops. Forgot the surname comes first, and Chow Yun Fat is traditional.
> >
> >he's waiting for you downstairs
>
> I've got milk but no cookies. He'll have to settle for pound cake.
He's also under the influence of a substance which makes him think all
short women are out to kill him.
> >> >ever heard of Milwaukee's most famous chef?
> >>
> >> Mr. Brewer? Mr. Budweiser? Mr Miller?
> >
> >Mr Dahmer
>
> He's dead, Jim.
his legacy of chocolate lives on
> >> >> <Cyberpunk game explodes with action>
>
> >> Nice to go out with a bang, I suppose. You guys can always go the MUD
> >> route if your short on players.
> >
> >considering I run sessions that go for 8+ hours, I don't feel that rich.
> >I prefer to actually be with my players.
>
> <Sniffle> Oh how touching. Such devotion.
means I can look at their character sheets and all-round it's much
easier. And it's fun to be able to use tone and sound effects -
dragging my chair's legs along the carpet when they're knocking on a
snuff porn dealer's door, that sort of thing.
> <Altie won the office Halloween contest>
> >I was tempted to offer a few 'tricks' myself.
> First the military, then HR, now prostitution? Your career couselor is
> certainly giving you a wide range of occupations to choose from.
not that kind. Think about it.
> >Exactly what did you do to win this contest?
>
> Wouldn't you like to know?
would I?
> Actually I won the trivia contest. I knew white roses repel vampires
> just like garlic does.
should've pulled out Ravenloft, V:tM, Cthulhu, and in fact every rpg to
ever touch on vampires. Or violently defended that in fact they get
repelled by playing American Pie on a xylophone while shaved bald and
clothed only in one's own excrement - because my guess is as good as
anybody else's!
Rohan Tolstrup
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
>Sean an npc?>
>> <short answer, no>
>>
>> Pretty powerful for 16. Sounds like Macauley Culkin on speed.
>
>His mind's in its twenties at least. And he doesn't do cute.
All right, so he's Warwicke Davis on speed..
>
>> >> <The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
>> >> How's a madonna supposed to answer that one?
>> >
>> >same as your smutty comments about Dalamar
>> I was never the one who made references to Dalamar's genitalia, or
>> lack thereof.
>
>yeah, just everything else
What else is there besides references to genitalia that would make the
comment smutty? I wasn't the one who brought up solo male
endeavors, either.
>
>> >And it's not as if the thing screamed *dagger* -- one guy called it
a syringe.
>> >
>> >So I had a somewhat wide hilt. Maybe it's a stiletto.
>>
>> Proves the point about it being ambiguous.
>
>one of several things it most certainly *didn't* resemble...
But the door's wide open as to what it *did* resemble.
>
>> >> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>so we can have conventional parliamentary debate - at a speed faster
>than light
Which means you'll have debates expanding in length to fill in the slack
due to improved efficiency in public speaking
>
>> >> <Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
>know the right people and swap the boss
In this case, the right person to know would be Tak, since
this is her number one man. So she'd be blessing the coup.
>
>> >time for some Chainsaw Art
>>
>> Is this something like the Texas Twostep? Thought you said you
>> didn't dance.
>
>I don't. It's more of a roleplaying maneuvre.
And I don't roleplay if I can go out dancing instead, so let me know how
tour maneuver turns out.
>
>> >> <A fourth Solamnic order to handle covert activities is a good idea>
>a Rose knight in her early twenties? You'd expect 'em to be at least 30
Again it depends. Sometimes you promote young to accelerate
cultural change.
>
>give us a nice fat sourcebook with a chapter on the support arm :)
It'd shed some light on day to day operations at the very least.
>so she was a Rose *before* she was grabbed for undercover work? Why not
>just send the Grand Master to pimp for a bunch of undercover Revered
>Daughters of Paladine and elven princesses?
Gunthar was actually sent to pimp for the Bulp clan, and that's the real
reason Uh-Oh called him Papa.
>> The sun'll come out, tomorrow, clear away the cobwebs and the sorrow...
>> There's always the 5th Age to look forward to.
>
>yeah bloody right. Never even explained the fourth age, and there's
>been enough false starts I wonder if I'm just going on inertia.
You're a creature of habit is all. I'd give the 5th Age another chance if
WoS is well paced and doesn't take quantum leaps into the future.
>
>> >> <You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
>> I want to see a draconian as a KoS, but that's another story. The
>> likely recruit has to be someone who has some talent he can contribute
>> to the KoS, and it would be the exceptional peasant who can fit that bill.
>> The KoS, as a self supported organization can't become a charity.
>
>of course not. It's a private army with extensive property holdings.
The KoS don't loot and property will only generate x amount of dollars
per head. The KoS can't let in hardship cases or it will go bankrupt.
>
>I doubt the three orders would become divine private armies if those
>three had a schism over say wilderness. If we can have orders dedicated
>to Habbakuk and Kiri-Jolith *as well as* Paladine, then why not
>Solinari? Main reason was bigotry.
Bigotry was the main reason, but the loyalty of knights to warrior gods and
mages to a god of magic does bring with it conflicts of interest. For
example, if the KoS wants to destroy a magic artifact that the gods of
magic wants preserved, what would the mage do? He's making some god
angry either way.
>
>> Sturm was let in partially because Gunthar was bankrolling him. And
>> isn't a donation of most of one's fortune a requirement for advancement
>> in the knighthood?
>
>Sounds ambiguous. Probably they chuck in what they personally own, and
>as they advance in rank they increasingly handle more KoS property. If
>the KoS can ever reclaim the huge tracts of Solamnia they originally
>owned, then they'd be self-supporting.
The way property enters KoS ownership, aside from being deeded via treaty,
is through the induction of wealthy knights. Since pure blooded KoS are
probably scarce, the new crowd that's joining is probably nouveau riche who
can build up those coffers.
>
<Linsha should have beefed up her role as evil Lynne.>
>She'd actually be a security guard for merchants. She wouldn't need to
>get into that kind of crap. She can swear, drink too much etc without
>actually hurting innocent people.
I thought the story in OoG indicated that she was gambling and drinking
regularly to establish character. And who's going to be intimidated by
her if she's guarding a caravan for a legitimate merchant?
>
>> <Caramon wanted to adventure when young>
>without Raistlin and Kitiara he would have become just another farmer,
>and without Raist he probably would've just retired after a few jobs.
Without Raistlin and Kitiara, Caramon would have followed Sturm to
Solamnia and perhaps become the first non-Solamnic KoS.
>> You're right, victimizing a tree for a vicarious thrill is not something I
>want to hear about.
>
>a tree, you think?
I don't recall eucalyptus leaves growing on anything else.
>
>Where do we get 'ends justify means' from LoS? Just because you raid
>their weakest point instead of having a set-piece doesn't cut it.
Because the LoS would be the group who would let a village burn if it
means saving the legionnaires force for a bigger, more important battle.
>
>> And I think Eddings would be just the man to write true neutrals as they
>> were meant to be written -- Polgara is so much like Astinus at times that
>> she could be Lunitari's mother.
>
>I'd call them more 'neutral good.' They mean well, but their job isn't
>to become immortal paladins and they mainly tackle stuff like fighting
>gods and stopping a second ice age.
Perhaps, but Belgarath teeters on the chaotic neutral side every once
in a while. He would have happily consigned the bear cult to genocide.
>
>> >> >I always was suspicious of the LoS
>> >> It would violate AFDL continuity if you weren't.
>> >
>> >soon I will have the Deja access code, and History Will Be Mine!!!!
>>
>> You can't divert the flow of the River of Time -- you'll just repeat
>history as Stig and be caught in a time loop swearing Raistlin is a
woman.
>
><rack>
On second thought, you might come back as Shalafi...
>
>> >So we're sure they were all greedy bastards, and not more like misguided
>> >conservatives who didn't see the KoS as feasible allies?
>>
>> Misguided conservatives would have cut off their right arms before making
>> a deal with the knights of a goddess they despise.
>
>pragmatic conservatives would realise the KoT outnumber them 3+:1 and
>are quite capable of genocide.
The dragonarmies were capable of genocide, but Solostaran chose to
abandon Qualinost instead.
>
>> >> They were important to defense during the WotL but the elves turned
>> >> tail and ran then, too.
>> >
>> >Then it hadn't occurred to them that the KoS would help them.
>>
>> And it didn't occur to them that supporting the KoT would make them
>> the enemies of the KoS and Paladine?
>
>not exactly a free choice, was it?
The choice to leave was always there. Or to join Porthios in rebellion.
>
>> >Either blow them up, or change their culture. Best way is through
>> >contact with actual humans on a regular basis.
>>
>> The elves have got to want to see humans on a regular basis or else
>> they're seen as annoying pests at best.
>
>Korodullin & Mayaserana?
You want to lock Rashas and Gunthar in a tower and see if they fall in
love? The Korodullin/Mayaserana thing worked because both were of
marrying age and Eddings was trying to show that the differences
between Mimbrate and Asturian Arends were superficial at best. It
might work for two elves (Rashas and Konnal) but I don't think Rashas
was Konnal's type.
>
>> >> How many times do they have to come together to inspire trust? What
>> >> about the council of Whitestone?
>> >
>> >the dragon orb's mine!
>>
>> And afterwards, when they realized that a god had lectured them on how
>> stupid they were all being? The elves got the teamwork lecture from
>> Paladine himself, and they still remained hidebound.
>
>TSR remained buried in a huge pile of cocaine?
The elves certainly were.
>
<Linsha can't handle playacting>
>'hide in plain sight' is probably intended for the kind of operation
>where you've got armed backup five seconds away and your cover's meant
>to last for a few hours
She went for fading into shadows as opposed to being recognized as a
player. Again, misjudgement. She's not Silk from the Belgariad.
>> Okay, Linsha mugs the muggers and makes cash. Doesn't this make
>> her a mark for other muggers, if they all follow this catch of the day
>> strategy?
>
>subtlety is a fine thing. Balaclava?
If Linsha's subtle, then no one's going to notice enough for her to establish
her character. What's the point if no one knows she's mugging people.
>
>> <Elven aging and memory is a known DL continuity issue>
>> >isn't 25 years more like one to elves? They'd still be reeling.
>>
>> Reeling? Maybe. But they should also have Sturm's sacrifice clearly
>> in mind also.
>
>exactly. Hands up who thought DoSF was realistic?
Tas dying a cockroach's death bothered me more, but yes, DoSF
is not one of my favorite DL books.
>
>> >> Jeff's knights are "good old days" revisionists, so that's not a
>continuity
>> >> violation.
>> >
>> >Gunthar's age is off by about forty years. Summer Flame is ignored and
>> >all logic is discarded in the handling of the Measure issue.
>>
>> I agree that Gunthar's age is messed up and Sir Thomas is gone, but I
>> still don't think the handling of the Measure is logically inconsistent.
>I've just seen too many examples of things like that being pushed to the
> side in the real world.
>
>But Gunthar, on his own? It's not exactly an obscure issue nobody is
>interested in.
People in authority can get away with that. It wasn't as if Gunthar could
pass the Measure on his own authority.
>
>> >both are to blame
>>
>> But the elves have the heavier burden because they don't want to change
>> at all.
>
>then they must be persuaded to change. Dragon Slave
If the dragon overlords get the elves to grow up, then that's a positive for
the 5th age.
>> >> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
>> Think the black robe contingent of the Conclave. One side of the mouth
>> agrees, the other is plotting an overthrow.
>
>Hitler had a fair run
Unfortunately, Hitler's policies benefitted his cronies and I'm sure a lot of
guys in Hitler's circle preferred to make money quietly while Hitler drew
the deserved attention from assassins.
>
>> For some reason, contemporary political satire isn't done well on series
>> TV here.
>
>who can you send up? You couldn't have a F.U.-style Prez, because as
>Head of State it'd be like taking an axe to America. Come on, let's see
>America produce a Yes Minister.
There was a comedy long time ago by Norman Lear that did a hilarious
send up of the Presidency, but it didn't last long. Political humor just
isn't considered mainstream enough for weekly TV here.
>
>> >> Oops. Forgot the surname comes first, and Chow Yun Fat is traditional.
>> >
>> >he's waiting for you downstairs
>>
>> I've got milk but no cookies. He'll have to settle for pound cake.
>
>He's also under the influence of a substance which makes him think all
>short women are out to kill him.
I'll wear heels.
>> >> >> <Cyberpunk game explodes with action>
>>
>> >> Nice to go out with a bang, I suppose. You guys can always go the MUD
>> >> route if your short on players.
>> >
>> >considering I run sessions that go for 8+ hours, I don't feel that rich.
>> >I prefer to actually be with my players.
>>
>> <Sniffle> Oh how touching. Such devotion.
>
>means I can look at their character sheets and all-round it's much
>easier. And it's fun to be able to use tone and sound effects -
>dragging my chair's legs along the carpet when they're knocking on a
>snuff porn dealer's door, that sort of thing.
My old DM used mood music and that was fun. Special effects noises
worked about 50% of the time.
>
>> <Altie won the office Halloween contest>
>> >I was tempted to offer a few 'tricks' myself.
>> First the military, then HR, now prostitution? Your career couselor is
>> certainly giving you a wide range of occupations to choose from.
>
>not that kind. Think about it.
Already did -- but it's not a trick until someone falls for it.
>
>> >Exactly what did you do to win this contest?
>>
>> Wouldn't you like to know?
>
>would I?
Probably not. It involved subjecting one of my colleagues to a startling
transformation.
>
>> Actually I won the trivia contest. I knew white roses repel vampires
>> just like garlic does.
>
>should've pulled out Ravenloft, V:tM, Cthulhu, and in fact every rpg to
>ever touch on vampires. Or violently defended that in fact they get
>repelled by playing American Pie on a xylophone while shaved bald and
>clothed only in one's own excrement - because my guess is as good as
>anybody else's!
Luckily, the role playing contingent in our department is woefully limited,
with the hard-core rpg'ers safely away in Phoenix.
Tolstrup
> >
> >His mind's in its twenties at least. And he doesn't do cute.
>
> All right, so he's Warwicke Davis on speed..
whuh?
> >> >> <The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
> >> I was never the one who made references to Dalamar's genitalia, or
> >> lack thereof.
> >
> >yeah, just everything else
>
> What else is there besides references to genitalia that would make the
> comment smutty? I wasn't the one who brought up solo male
> endeavors, either.
I think a shrink would have a field day here. And you were the one who
thought I meant Crysania 'entertained herself.'
> >one of several things it most certainly *didn't* resemble...
>
> But the door's wide open as to what it *did* resemble.
on reflection it could've been a syringe. But you'd need to be pretty
warped to think it's *that*.
> >> >> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
> >so we can have conventional parliamentary debate - at a speed faster
> >than light
> Which means you'll have debates expanding in length to fill in the slack
> due to improved efficiency in public speaking
there has to be a way of doing it properly
> >> >> <Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
> >know the right people and swap the boss
>
> In this case, the right person to know would be Tak, since
> this is her number one man. So she'd be blessing the coup.
and to get her blessing you'd need to demonstrate that you can fully
replace Ariakas. And Zeboim might be pissed off.
> >> >time for some Chainsaw Art
> >> Is this something like the Texas Twostep? Thought you said you
> >> didn't dance.
> >
> >I don't. It's more of a roleplaying maneuvre.
>
> And I don't roleplay if I can go out dancing instead, so let me know how
> tour maneuver turns out.
what!!!!!? You'd sacrifice *roleplaying* just so you can go out and
kneecap people with your butt?
> >> >> <A fourth Solamnic order to handle covert activities is a good idea>
> >a Rose knight in her early twenties? You'd expect 'em to be at least 30
>
> Again it depends. Sometimes you promote young to accelerate
> cultural change.
so how can they (Steve et al) justify letting Linsha in when according
to them the KoS have the learning curve of a handful of peat moss? It'd
be much more realistic for them to send a Pirvirt.
> >give us a nice fat sourcebook with a chapter on the support arm :)
>
> It'd shed some light on day to day operations at the very least.
what, actually give us something usable on the KoS? "They're all
paladins and they all sleep in their +5 full plate"
> >so she was a Rose *before* she was grabbed for undercover work? Why not
> >just send the Grand Master to pimp for a bunch of undercover Revered
> >Daughters of Paladine and elven princesses?
>
> Gunthar was actually sent to pimp for the Bulp clan, and that's the real
reason Uh-Oh called him Papa.
too much information
> >> The sun'll come out, tomorrow, clear away the cobwebs and the sorrow...
> >> There's always the 5th Age to look forward to.
> >
> >yeah bloody right. Never even explained the fourth age, and there's
> >been enough false starts I wonder if I'm just going on inertia.
>
> You're a creature of habit is all. I'd give the 5th Age another chance if
> WoS is well paced and doesn't take quantum leaps into the future.
excuse me while I load this shotgun. That Dhamon and Rig won't be
killed off in WoS is a matter for regret. Book one should have been
called "the execution of Rabe's pathetic characters" and they'd be
raking in a fortune instead of a bunch of cynical fans, half of whom are
pissed off at hardcover venality.
> >> >> <You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
> >> I want to see a draconian as a KoS, but that's another story. The
> >> likely recruit has to be someone who has some talent he can contribute
> >> to the KoS, and it would be the exceptional peasant who can fit that bill.
> >> The KoS, as a self supported organization can't become a charity.
> >
> >of course not. It's a private army with extensive property holdings.
>
> The KoS don't loot and property will only generate x amount of dollars
> per head. The KoS can't let in hardship cases or it will go bankrupt.
more like scholarship cases. As W&H totally failed to observe RE the
KoT, you just don't get that many people who meet the criteria.
> >I doubt the three orders would become divine private armies if those
> >three had a schism over say wilderness. If we can have orders dedicated
> >to Habbakuk and Kiri-Jolith *as well as* Paladine, then why not
> >Solinari? Main reason was bigotry.
>
> Bigotry was the main reason, but the loyalty of knights to warrior gods and
> mages to a god of magic does bring with it conflicts of interest. For
> example, if the KoS wants to destroy a magic artifact that the gods of
> magic wants preserved, what would the mage do? He's making some god
> angry either way.
the KoS would be educated that some things don't have to be blown up.
Paladine never told them to 'go forth and destroy magic,' it was merely
a superstition along the lines of 'only royalty may be rose knights.'
Like I said, it's bigotry that kept mages out in the first place.
> >Sounds ambiguous. Probably they chuck in what they personally own, and
> >as they advance in rank they increasingly handle more KoS property. If
> >the KoS can ever reclaim the huge tracts of Solamnia they originally
> >owned, then they'd be self-supporting.
>
> The way property enters KoS ownership, aside from being deeded via treaty,
> is through the induction of wealthy knights. Since pure blooded KoS are
> probably scarce, the new crowd that's joining is probably nouveau riche who
> can build up those coffers.
<sickening vision of KoS turning into a Democrat fundraiser>
> <Linsha should have beefed up her role as evil Lynn.>
> >She'd actually be a security guard for merchants. She wouldn't need to
> >get into that kind of crap. She can swear, drink too much etc without
> >actually hurting innocent people.
>
> I thought the story in OoG indicated that she was gambling and drinking
> regularly to establish character. And who's going to be intimidated by
> her if she's guarding a caravan for a legitimate merchant?
well, that's a financial base. She'd be guarding a shop, which has
substantial potential for violence. She can generate a reputation as
scuzzy but sticks to the deal.
> >> <Caramon wanted to adventure when young>
> >without Raistlin and Kitiara he would have become just another farmer,
> >and without Raist he probably would've just retired after a few jobs.
>
> Without Raistlin and Kitiara, Caramon would have followed Sturm to
> Solamnia and perhaps become the first non-Solamnic KoS.
bwahahahahahahahahaha
> >> You're right, victimizing a tree for a vicarious thrill is not something I
> >want to hear about.
> >
> >a tree, you think?
>
> I don't recall eucalyptus leaves growing on anything else.
I'd better not tell you about the factory then
> >Where do we get 'ends justify means' from LoS? Just because you raid
> >their weakest point instead of having a set-piece doesn't cut it.
>
> Because the LoS would be the group who would let a village burn if it
> means saving the legionnaires force for a bigger, more important battle.
there's still the 'what does the paladin do if he sees a hundred orcs
raping a couple of girls?' issue. My answer is euthanasia by bow. It's
certainly not a new thing for good people to be confronted with hard
decisions; pretending that this happened only now is ridiculous.
Practicality is not a 5A invention.
<Eddings characters true neutral archetypes>
> >I'd call them more 'neutral good.' They mean well, but their job isn't
> >to become immortal paladins and they mainly tackle stuff like fighting
> >gods and stopping a second ice age.
>
> Perhaps, but Belgarath teeters on the chaotic neutral side every once
> in a while. He would have happily consigned the bear cult to genocide.
His job isn't to intervene. Besides, he'd piss people off by sticking
his nose in, and the cult would survive anyway - nothing more perverse
than a bad idea. And Neutral Good: "a baron who disobeys his king to
destroy something he sees as evil"
> >> >> >I always was suspicious of the LoS
> >> >> It would violate AFDL continuity if you weren't.
> >> >
> >> >soon I will have the Deja access code, and History Will Be Mine!!!!
> >>
> >> You can't divert the flow of the River of Time -- you'll just repeat
> >history as Stig and be caught in a time loop swearing Raistlin is a
> woman.
> >
> ><rack>
>
> On second thought, you might come back as Shalafi...
please. Kill me now.
> >pragmatic conservatives would realise the KoT outnumber them 3+:1 and
> >are quite capable of genocide.
>
> The dragonarmies were capable of genocide, but Solostaran chose to
> abandon Qualinost instead.
of course, the dragonarmies were badly organised and found their hideout
anyway. The elves probably realised that it was surrender or suicide.
> >> And it didn't occur to them that supporting the KoT would make them
> >> the enemies of the KoS and Paladine?
> >
> >not exactly a free choice, was it?
>
> The choice to leave was always there. Or to join Porthios in rebellion.
the entire nation becomes Viet Cong?
> >> The elves have got to want to see humans on a regular basis or else
> >> they're seen as annoying pests at best.
> >
> >Korodullin & Mayaserana?
>
> You want to lock Rashas and Gunthar in a tower and see if they fall in
> love? The Korodullin/Mayaserana thing worked because both were of
> marrying age and Eddings was trying to show that the differences
> between Mimbrate and Asturian Arends were superficial at best. It
> might work for two elves (Rashas and Konnal) but I don't think Rashas
> was Konnal's type.
Eddings was probably smoking something. Reminds me of a Captain Planet
episode about hate where Northern Ireland, Palestine and Suth Ifrika
were trivialised. I wasn't talking about locking them up and waiting
for one to get pregnant. I meant regular contact. It's much easier to
hate somebody you don't know.
> >> >the dragon orb's mine!
> >>
> >> And afterwards, when they realized that a god had lectured them on how
> >> stupid they were all being? The elves got the teamwork lecture from
> >> Paladine himself, and they still remained hidebound.
> >
> >TSR remained buried in a huge pile of cocaine?
>
> The elves certainly were.
where the hell's the stash?
> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>
> >'hide in plain sight' is probably intended for the kind of operation
> >where you've got armed backup five seconds away and your cover's meant
> >to last for a few hours
>
> She went for fading into shadows as opposed to being recognized as a
> player. Again, misjudgement. She's not Silk from the Belgariad.
<image of Sean poleaxing Linsha on the way to Sanction and doing her job
for her>
> >> Okay, Linsha mugs the muggers and makes cash. Doesn't this make
> >> her a mark for other muggers, if they all follow this catch of the day
> >> strategy?
> >
> >subtlety is a fine thing. Balaclava?
>
> If Linsha's subtle, then no one's going to notice enough for her to establish
> her character. What's the point if no one knows she's mugging people.
the average streetscum wouldn't have a good reason for taking her on.
Her boyfriend might have more reliable info.
> >> <Elven aging and memory is a known DL continuity issue>
> >> >isn't 25 years more like one to elves? They'd still be reeling.
> >>
> >> Reeling? Maybe. But they should also have Sturm's sacrifice clearly
> >> in mind also.
> >
> >exactly. Hands up who thought DoSF was realistic?
>
> Tas dying a cockroach's death bothered me more, but yes, DoSF
> is not one of my favorite DL books.
<squish>
just setting the stage for Eve of the Maelstrom. Why just have a HotL
steal the show when you can have a new, interesting character actually
die so a 90ish HotL can live?
> >> >Gunthar's age is off by about forty years. Summer Flame is ignored and
> >> >all logic is discarded in the handling of the Measure issue.
> >>
> >> I agree that Gunthar's age is messed up and Sir Thomas is gone, but I
> >> still don't think the handling of the Measure is logically inconsistent.
> >I've just seen too many examples of things like that being pushed to the
> > side in the real world.
> >
> >But Gunthar, on his own? It's not exactly an obscure issue nobody is
> >interested in.
>
> People in authority can get away with that. It wasn't as if Gunthar could
> pass the Measure on his own authority.
how arrogant is it though? A grand master acting like that is grounds
for a No Confidence vote.
> >> >both are to blame
> >>
> >> But the elves have the heavier burden because they don't want to change
> >> at all.
> >
> >then they must be persuaded to change. Dragon Slave
>
> If the dragon overlords get the elves to grow up, then that's a positive for
> the 5th age.
let's burn their @#$%^&* forests and then see what the little $%^&*( do
> >> >> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
>
> >> Think the black robe contingent of the Conclave. One side of the mouth
> >> agrees, the other is plotting an overthrow.
> >
> >Hitler had a fair run
>
> Unfortunately, Hitler's policies benefitted his cronies and I'm sure a lot of
> guys in Hitler's circle preferred to make money quietly while Hitler drew
> the deserved attention from assassins.
hence, the Hitler Clause. The German National Socialist Workers Party
showed it could be done.
> >> For some reason, contemporary political satire isn't done well on series
> >> TV here.
> >
> >who can you send up? You couldn't have a F.U.-style Prez, because as
> >Head of State it'd be like taking an axe to America. Come on, let's see
> >America produce a Yes Minister.
>
> There was a comedy long time ago by Norman Lear that did a hilarious
> send up of the Presidency, but it didn't last long. Political humor just
> isn't considered mainstream enough for weekly TV here.
sounds ridiculous considering that America actually rams civics down
schoolchildren's throats, while here it's a yr11 politics elective.
<Chow Yun Fat's comin' to getcha>
> >> I've got milk but no cookies. He'll have to settle for pound cake.
> >
> >He's also under the influence of a substance which makes him think all
> >short women are out to kill him.
>
> I'll wear heels.
you're going to wear ten inch heels? Besides, his senses aren't that
heavily warped.
> >> >> >> <Cyberpunk game explodes with action>
<MUDs>
> >> >considering I run sessions that go for 8+ hours, I don't feel that rich.
> >> >I prefer to actually be with my players.
> >>
> >> <Sniffle> Oh how touching. Such devotion.
> >
> >means I can look at their character sheets and all-round it's much
> >easier. And it's fun to be able to use tone and sound effects -
> >dragging my chair's legs along the carpet when they're knocking on a
> >snuff porn dealer's door, that sort of thing.
>
> My old DM used mood music and that was fun. Special effects noises
> worked about 50% of the time.
actually it was a case of 'When I push back it sounds like an old window
being slid open. Cool!' Normally I don't even do much dialogue,
although I tend to get emotions across. I thought mood music tended to
distract, although my Werewolf DM (the short ugly guy who got
decapitated) decided to keep playing Madonna's Ray o' lite seedy.
> >> <Altie won the office Halloween contest>
> >> >I was tempted to offer a few 'tricks' myself.
> >> First the military, then HR, now prostitution? Your career couselor is
> >> certainly giving you a wide range of occupations to choose from.
> >
> >not that kind. Think about it.
>
> Already did -- but it's not a trick until someone falls for it.
what I like about All Hallows Eve is that if you don't give them a lolly
then they have to turn a trick
> >> >Exactly what did you do to win this contest?
> >>
> >> Wouldn't you like to know?
> >
> >would I?
>
> Probably not. It involved subjecting one of my colleagues to a startling
> transformation.
whuh?
> >> Actually I won the trivia contest. I knew white roses repel vampires
> >> just like garlic does.
> >
> >should've pulled out Ravenloft, V:tM, Cthulhu, and in fact every rpg to
> >ever touch on vampires. Or violently defended that in fact they get
> >repelled by playing American Pie on a xylophone while shaved bald and
> >clothed only in one's own excrement - because my guess is as good as
> >anybody else's!
>
> Luckily, the role playing contingent in our department is woefully limited,
> with the hard-core rpg'ers safely away in Phoenix.
that's the real reason you went down to purge 'em, isn't it? The truth
will out (if I don't get my weekly brown paper bag).
Rohan "Death by Wedgie" Tolstrup
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Who is Warwicke Davis?>
He played the title character in Willow.
>
>> >> >> <The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
>> >> I was never the one who made references to Dalamar's genitalia, or
>> >> lack thereof.
>> >
>> >yeah, just everything else
>>
>> What else is there besides references to genitalia that would make the
>> comment smutty? I wasn't the one who brought up solo male
>> endeavors, either.
>
>I think a shrink would have a field day here. And you were the one who
>thought I meant Crysania 'entertained herself.'
Maybe those comments about it being "souvlaki, honest" had something
to do with that.
>
>> >one of several things it most certainly *didn't* resemble...
>>
>> But the door's wide open as to what it *did* resemble.
>
>on reflection it could've been a syringe. But you'd need to be pretty
>warped to think it's *that*.
Or pretty warped to put a dubious object like that following a remark
about bestiality insinuations.
>
>> >> >> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>> >so we can have conventional parliamentary debate - at a speed faster
>> >than light
>> Which means you'll have debates expanding in length to fill in the slack
>> due to improved efficiency in public speaking
>
>there has to be a way of doing it properly
When you come up with it, let me know.
>
>> >> >> <Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
>and to get her blessing you'd need to demonstrate that you can fully
>replace Ariakas. And Zeboim might be pissed off.
Zeboim wouldn't openly break ranks with Tak. And Tak is a believer
in the victor getting the spoils.
>
>> And I don't roleplay if I can go out dancing instead, so let me know how
>> tour maneuver turns out.
>
>what!!!!!? You'd sacrifice *roleplaying* just so you can go out and
>kneecap people with your butt?
Of course, but that kneecap to butt dance must be an Aussie fad.
>
>> >> >> <A fourth Solamnic order to handle covert activities is a good idea>
>> >a Rose knight in her early twenties? You'd expect 'em to be at least 30
>so how can they (Steve et al) justify letting Linsha in when according
>to them the KoS have the learning curve of a handful of peat moss? It'd
>be much more realistic for them to send a Pirvirt.
The Pirvirts may have bought it along with Crownguard, and the Sturm
example might have caused any Pirvirt like recruits to reconsider.
>> You're a creature of habit is all. I'd give the 5th Age another chance if
>> WoS is well paced and doesn't take quantum leaps into the future.
>
>excuse me while I load this shotgun. That Dhamon and Rig won't be
>killed off in WoS is a matter for regret. Book one should have been
>called "the execution of Rabe's pathetic characters" and they'd be
>raking in a fortune instead of a bunch of cynical fans, half of whom are
>pissed off at hardcover venality.
I'd love to see stats on what kind of demographic Rabe's trilogy attracts.
It does seem to have an appeal for youngish fans who never read W&H.
>
>> >> >> <You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
>> The KoS don't loot and property will only generate x amount of dollars
>> per head. The KoS can't let in hardship cases or it will go bankrupt.
>
>more like scholarship cases. As W&H totally failed to observe RE the
>KoT, you just don't get that many people who meet the criteria.
The KoT is allowed to accumulate wealth through looting, though.
>
>> Bigotry was the main reason, but the loyalty of knights to warrior gods and
>> mages to a god of magic does bring with it conflicts of interest. For
>> example, if the KoS wants to destroy a magic artifact that the gods of
>> magic wants preserved, what would the mage do? He's making some god
>> angry either way.
>
>the KoS would be educated that some things don't have to be blown up.
>Paladine never told them to 'go forth and destroy magic,' it was merely
>a superstition along the lines of 'only royalty may be rose knights.'
>Like I said, it's bigotry that kept mages out in the first place.
Educating the KoS won't resolve loyalty conflicts in a mage. Suppose
Solinari went against his Pop and wanted the dragon orb saved instead
of smashed, what is the right choice for a "KoS" mage? This is beyond
telling the KoS that destroying magic is not part of the Measure.
>
>> The way property enters KoS ownership, aside from being deeded via treaty,
>> is through the induction of wealthy knights. Since pure blooded KoS are
>> probably scarce, the new crowd that's joining is probably nouveau riche who
>> can build up those coffers.
>
><sickening vision of KoS turning into a Democrat fundraiser>
Money makes the worlds go 'round -- even Krynn.
>
>> <Linsha should have beefed up her role as evil Lynn.>
>> I thought the story in OoG indicated that she was gambling and drinking
>> regularly to establish character. And who's going to be intimidated by
>> her if she's guarding a caravan for a legitimate merchant?
>
>well, that's a financial base. She'd be guarding a shop, which has
>substantial potential for violence. She can generate a reputation as
>scuzzy but sticks to the deal.
And that's different from her Lynn persona how, exactly? Just because
she guards the shop doesn't mean someone's going to attack it.
>
>> >> <Caramon wanted to adventure when young>
>> Without Raistlin and Kitiara, Caramon would have followed Sturm to
>> Solamnia and perhaps become the first non-Solamnic KoS.
>
>bwahahahahahahahahaha
Caramon was the kind of man the knights desperately needed in the
ranks. Gunthar would have seen his value the same as the Mad Baron.
<Eucalyptus leaves grow on trees>
>
>I'd better not tell you about the factory then
You make silk plants? Interior decorating is an interesting career choice.
>
>> >Where do we get 'ends justify means' from LoS? Just because you raid
>> >their weakest point instead of having a set-piece doesn't cut it.
>>
>> Because the LoS would be the group who would let a village burn if it
>> means saving the legionnaires force for a bigger, more important battle.
>
>there's still the 'what does the paladin do if he sees a hundred orcs
>raping a couple of girls?' issue. My answer is euthanasia by bow. It's
>certainly not a new thing for good people to be confronted with hard
>decisions; pretending that this happened only now is ridiculous.
>Practicality is not a 5A invention.
That's a one-vs-many comparison and it's a no-brainer. What about a
contingent can join the main army and ensure the defeat of the enemy,
or miss the main rendevous to protect a village under seige? The LoS
seems like the organization that would march off to ensure the defeat
of the main group and leave the stragglers to die.
>
><Eddings characters true neutral archetypes>
>> Perhaps, but Belgarath teeters on the chaotic neutral side every once
>> in a while. He would have happily consigned the bear cult to genocide.
>
>His job isn't to intervene. Besides, he'd piss people off by sticking
>his nose in, and the cult would survive anyway - nothing more perverse
>than a bad idea. And Neutral Good: "a baron who disobeys his king to
>destroy something he sees as evil"
Belgarath's whole life is about intervening to make sure Belgarion was
born. He was very capable of standing by while the Asturians destroyed
Vo Wacune, and there was no sorcerous rescue mission to help free
some of the Marags.
>
>> >> You can't divert the flow of the River of Time -- you'll just repeat
>> >history as Stig and be caught in a time loop swearing Raistlin is a
>> woman.
>> >
>> ><rack>
>>
>> On second thought, you might come back as Shalafi...
>
>please. Kill me now.
Not too much would change, you know. You'd still be having long
discussions with Kinthalas.
>> The dragonarmies were capable of genocide, but Solostaran chose to
>> abandon Qualinost instead.
>
>of course, the dragonarmies were badly organised and found their hideout
>anyway. The elves probably realised that it was surrender or suicide.
The Silvanesti at least made a half-hearted attempt to protect themselves.
The majority of the Senate was interested preserving their wealth as
most of their derogatory comments about the KoT were about having to
feed the soldiers.
>
>> >> And it didn't occur to them that supporting the KoT would make them
>> >> the enemies of the KoS and Paladine?
>> >
>> >not exactly a free choice, was it?
>>
>> The choice to leave was always there. Or to join Porthios in rebellion.
>
>the entire nation becomes Viet Cong?
Or covert resistance fighters and underground support.
>
>> >> The elves have got to want to see humans on a regular basis or else
>> >> they're seen as annoying pests at best.
>> >
>> >Korodullin & Mayaserana?
>>
>> You want to lock Rashas and Gunthar in a tower and see if they fall in
>> love? The Korodullin/Mayaserana thing worked because both were of
>> marrying age and Eddings was trying to show that the differences
>> between Mimbrate and Asturian Arends were superficial at best. It
>> might work for two elves (Rashas and Konnal) but I don't think Rashas
>> was Konnal's type.
>
>Eddings was probably smoking something. Reminds me of a Captain Planet
>episode about hate where Northern Ireland, Palestine and Suth Ifrika
>were trivialised. I wasn't talking about locking them up and waiting
>for one to get pregnant. I meant regular contact. It's much easier to
>hate somebody you don't know.
Agreed -- it's easier to hate in ignorance. But the only leader willing to
start that contact was Porthios, and he was dethroned.
>> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>>
>> >'hide in plain sight' is probably intended for the kind of operation
>> >where you've got armed backup five seconds away and your cover's meant
>> >to last for a few hours
>>
>> She went for fading into shadows as opposed to being recognized as a
>> player. Again, misjudgement. She's not Silk from the Belgariad.
>
><image of Sean poleaxing Linsha on the way to Sanction and doing her job
>for her>
Sean's too short and too young. Warwicke Davis doesn't look anything
like Linsha.
>
>> If Linsha's subtle, then no one's going to notice enough for her to
>establish her character. What's the point if no one knows she's
>mugging people.
>
>the average streetscum wouldn't have a good reason for taking her on.
>Her boyfriend might have more reliable info.
Okay, she gambles and drinks at the tavern and has a steady job. Why's
this guy going to take her more seriously than he does in OoG if no one
has a good reason for taking her on?
>
>> >> <Elven aging and memory is a known DL continuity issue>
>> Tas dying a cockroach's death bothered me more, but yes, DoSF
>> is not one of my favorite DL books.
>
><squish>
>just setting the stage for Eve of the Maelstrom. Why just have a HotL
>steal the show when you can have a new, interesting character actually
>die so a 90ish HotL can live?
I wasn't a fan of Jasper's -- I like Gair more until his personality was
radically transformed into another character in the Silver Stair -- but
Goldmoon's reason for being sent back was very weak. And Tas'
death was just too "cute" -- death by bigfoot -- to be taken seriously.
>
>> >> I agree that Gunthar's age is messed up and Sir Thomas is gone, but I
>> >> still don't think the handling of the Measure is logically inconsistent.
>> >I've just seen too many examples of things like that being pushed to the
>> > side in the real world.
>> >
>> >But Gunthar, on his own? It's not exactly an obscure issue nobody is
>> >interested in.
>>
>> People in authority can get away with that. It wasn't as if Gunthar could
>> pass the Measure on his own authority.
>
>how arrogant is it though? A grand master acting like that is grounds
>for a No Confidence vote.
Leaders have the right to prepare drafts of documents without the
world seeing them -- everyone's going to argue them anyway, so it's best
to start people off with a coherent set of principles.
>
>> If the dragon overlords get the elves to grow up, then that's a positive
>for the 5th age.
>
>let's burn their @#$%^&* forests and then see what the little $%^&*( do
I don't know how scared the elves will be, seeing that Samar woke up
Aeren just so he could tell Silvanoshei a bedtime story.
>
>> >> >> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
>hence, the Hitler Clause. The German National Socialist Workers Party
>showed it could be done.
But Hitler had the support of the army. It's a lot harder today in developed
countries for armies to decide who's in power.
>
>> There was a comedy long time ago by Norman Lear that did a hilarious
>> send up of the Presidency, but it didn't last long. Political humor just
>> isn't considered mainstream enough for weekly TV here.
>
>sounds ridiculous considering that America actually rams civics down
>schoolchildren's throats, while here it's a yr11 politics elective.
Growing up, jokes about the President were quite common. I think
political comedy doesn't get ratings because people are so used to the
government being satirized across all media.
>
><Chow Yun Fat's comin' to getcha>
>> I'll wear heels.
>
>you're going to wear ten inch heels? Besides, his senses aren't that
>heavily warped.
They are if he thinks he's in the Orient when he's really in NY.
>> My old DM used mood music and that was fun. Special effects noises
>> worked about 50% of the time.
>
>actually it was a case of 'When I push back it sounds like an old window
>being slid open. Cool!' Normally I don't even do much dialogue,
>although I tend to get emotions across. I thought mood music tended to
>distract, although my Werewolf DM (the short ugly guy who got
>decapitated) decided to keep playing Madonna's Ray o' lite seedy.
Madonna for an rpg? Ugh. Instrumental soundtracks worked.
>> >> <Altie won the office Halloween contest>
>> Already did -- but it's not a trick until someone falls for it.
>
>what I like about All Hallows Eve is that if you don't give them a lolly
>then they have to turn a trick
And assuming the trick is something pleasant is a no-no.
>
>> >> >Exactly what did you do to win this contest?
>> >>
>> >> Wouldn't you like to know?
>> >
>> >would I?
>>
>> Probably not. It involved subjecting one of my colleagues to a startling
>> transformation.
>
>whuh?
The person in question is a good sport, and is recovering nicely from
the humiliation, so I'll just leave it at that.
>
>> >> Actually I won the trivia contest. I knew white roses repel vampires
>> >> just like garlic does.
>> >
<should've pulled out Ravenloft, V:tM, Cthulhu, and in fact every rpg to
ever touch on vampires. >
>> Luckily, the role playing contingent in our department is woefully limited,
>> with the hard-core rpg'ers safely away in Phoenix.
>
>that's the real reason you went down to purge 'em, isn't it? The truth
>will out (if I don't get my weekly brown paper bag).
By the time the sandwiches get to Australia, they'll be stale. But the
roleplayers weren't the guys who were sent the warning the last time --
they're actually rather creative hardworking types.
Tolstrup
> He played the title character in Willow.
remember, that came out when I was in primary school. I recall that the
heroine was cool and I thought that the skull-masks were ripping off
Lone Wolf rather shockingly.
> >> >> >> <The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
> >> What else is there besides references to genitalia that would make the
> >> comment smutty? I wasn't the one who brought up solo male
> >> endeavors, either.
> >
> >I think a shrink would have a field day here. And you were the one who
> >thought I meant Crysania 'entertained herself.'
>
> Maybe those comments about it being "souvlaki, honest" had something
> to do with that.
when did I say that?
> >on reflection it could've been a syringe. But you'd need to be pretty
> >warped to think it's *that*.
>
> Or pretty warped to put a dubious object like that following a remark
> about bestiality insinuations.
oh. I just thought a dagger dripping a pool of blood would be kewl.
> >> >> >> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
> >there has to be a way of doing it properly
>
> When you come up with it, let me know.
you're assuming here that they can't take it seriously. Remember,
probably the vast majority of politicians are just playing the game.
Why filibuster when election is actually based on character/competence
rather than image?
> >> >> >> <Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
> >and to get her blessing you'd need to demonstrate that you can fully
> >replace Ariakas. And Zeboim might be pissed off.
>
> Zeboim wouldn't openly break ranks with Tak. And Tak is a believer
> in the victor getting the spoils.
she's also into changing the rules. And if Takhy doesn't care about the
shit, Zeboim's helping *his* would-be replacement along...
> >> And I don't roleplay if I can go out dancing instead, so let me know how
> >> tour maneuver turns out.
> >what!!!!!? You'd sacrifice *roleplaying* just so you can go out and
> >kneecap people with your butt?
>
> Of course, but that kneecap to butt dance must be an Aussie fad.
I understand the normal procedure is gluteal contact, especially as the
human derriere is most equipped to withstand that kind of punishment.
Oh, played some Vampire and a one-off Shadowrun. Vampire I played a
former Bolshevik (who fought in the October Revolution) turned
idealistic hired gun. As a Brujah I was meant to be the rebel. However
everybody *else* insulted the prospective employer and got kicked out of
the nightclub. Result is I get hired for a job. For no apparent reason
(some insignificant insult iirc) the Gangrel (wilderness type) started a
fight with another pc. PC 2 pulls a 9mm and wastes PC 1, and is in turn
shot by the cops (this happened outside a packed nightclub) when he
tries to pull something. Neither is actually dead, so PC 2 bales out of
meatwagon, followed by PC 1 who still wants him dead. Chase 'n brawl
ends with PC 1 finally killing PC 2. PC 1's crime will be detected by
any vampire with a reasonably common ability, and he will be killed on
sight by almost any vampire who knows what he's done. Spot the player
who's moving interstate and wrecking as many games as possible.
Shadowrun a combat-heavy party was sent to collect a live gorilla
specimen from an Indonesian island. Playing a Swarzenegger type (made
from a template) who according to the rules I didn't fully understand
didn't know how to turn on a computer or throw a grenade, I participated
in fun times like massacring the nice (paranoid) pygmies - well, they
attacked us first. The apes were escaped test subjects who took pot
shots at us with mortars, and one of them continued his lock on the
dwarf despite double the recommended Tranq dosage. I prefer Cyberpunk -
you don't have to roll nearly as many bloody dice!
> >so how can they (Steve et al) justify letting Linsha in when according
> >to them the KoS have the learning curve of a handful of peat moss? It'd
> >be much more realistic for them to send a Pirvirt.
>
> The Pirvirts may have bought it along with Crownguard, and the Sturm
> example might have caused any Pirvirt like recruits to reconsider.
Pirvirt was meant to be serious about honour but with a chequered past.
He certainly wasn't a Crownguard, just a boring character.
> >excuse me while I load this shotgun. That Dhamon and Rig won't be
> >killed off in WoS is a matter for regret. Book one should have been
> >called "the execution of Rabe's pathetic characters" and they'd be
> >raking in a fortune instead of a bunch of cynical fans, half of whom are
> >pissed off at hardcover venality.
>
> I'd love to see stats on what kind of demographic Rabe's trilogy attracts.
> It does seem to have an appeal for youngish fans who never read W&H.
...and fit a number of other stereotypes
> >> >> >> <You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
> >more like scholarship cases. As W&H totally failed to observe RE the
> >KoT, you just don't get that many people who meet the criteria.
>
> The KoT is allowed to accumulate wealth through looting, though.
It's not like the KoS can't have their own economic base. They used to
own Solamnia after all.
> >the KoS would be educated that some things don't have to be blown up.
> >Paladine never told them to 'go forth and destroy magic,' it was merely
> >a superstition along the lines of 'only royalty may be rose knights.'
> >Like I said, it's bigotry that kept mages out in the first place.
>
> Educating the KoS won't resolve loyalty conflicts in a mage. Suppose
> Solinari went against his Pop and wanted the dragon orb saved instead
> of smashed, what is the right choice for a "KoS" mage? This is beyond
> telling the KoS that destroying magic is not part of the Measure.
I'm sure most KoS disagreed with that idea. But the orb was only
destroyed because everybody was fighting over it. A KoS mage probably
would have made a replica for smashing purposes and stashed the original
in Wayreth where it belongs.
> ><sickening vision of KoS turning into a Democrat fundraiser>
>
> Money makes the worlds go 'round -- even Krynn.
talk to Kinthalas
> >> <Linsha should have beefed up her role as evil Lynn.>
> >> I thought the story in OoG indicated that she was gambling and drinking
> >> regularly to establish character. And who's going to be intimidated by
> >> her if she's guarding a caravan for a legitimate merchant?
> >well, that's a financial base. She'd be guarding a shop, which has
> >substantial potential for violence. She can generate a reputation as
> >scuzzy but sticks to the deal.
>
> And that's different from her Lynn persona how, exactly? Just because
> she guards the shop doesn't mean someone's going to attack it.
pick somebody with (none too powerful) enemies as a patron then.
> >> >> <Caramon wanted to adventure when young>
> >> Without Raistlin and Kitiara, Caramon would have followed Sturm to
> >> Solamnia and perhaps become the first non-Solamnic KoS.
> >
> >bwahahahahahahahahaha
>
> Caramon was the kind of man the knights desperately needed in the
> ranks. Gunthar would have seen his value the same as the Mad Baron.
he was clinically stupid back then! Exactly what illegal substance was
he smoking throughout BiA?
> <Eucalyptus leaves grow on trees>
> >I'd better not tell you about the factory then
>
> You make silk plants? Interior decorating is an interesting career choice.
no, I do not make silk plants.
> >there's still the 'what does the paladin do if he sees a hundred orcs
> >raping a couple of girls?' issue. My answer is euthanasia by bow. It's
> >certainly not a new thing for good people to be confronted with hard
> >decisions; pretending that this happened only now is ridiculous.
> >Practicality is not a 5A invention.
>
> That's a one-vs-many comparison and it's a no-brainer. What about a
> contingent can join the main army and ensure the defeat of the enemy,
> or miss the main rendevous to protect a village under seige? The LoS
> seems like the organization that would march off to ensure the defeat
> of the main group and leave the stragglers to die.
Pity we don't actually know squat about them. They've only actually
featured in game material.
> ><Eddings characters true neutral archetypes>
> >> Perhaps, but Belgarath teeters on the chaotic neutral side every once
> >> in a while. He would have happily consigned the bear cult to genocide.
> >
> >His job isn't to intervene. Besides, he'd piss people off by sticking
> >his nose in, and the cult would survive anyway - nothing more perverse
> >than a bad idea. And Neutral Good: "a baron who disobeys his king to
> >destroy something he sees as evil"
>
> Belgarath's whole life is about intervening to make sure Belgarion was
> born. He was very capable of standing by while the Asturians destroyed
> Vo Wacune, and there was no sorcerous rescue mission to help free
> some of the Marags.
must be HELL knowing some things are predestined
> >> ><rack>
> >>
> >> On second thought, you might come back as Shalafi...
> >
> >please. Kill me now.
>
> Not too much would change, you know. You'd still be having long
> discussions with Kinthalas.
I've got to find a sword to fall on.
> >> The dragonarmies were capable of genocide, but Solostaran chose to
> >> abandon Qualinost instead.
> >
> >of course, the dragonarmies were badly organised and found their hideout
> >anyway. The elves probably realised that it was surrender or suicide.
>
> The Silvanesti at least made a half-hearted attempt to protect themselves.
> The majority of the Senate was interested preserving their wealth as
> most of their derogatory comments about the KoT were about having to
> feed the soldiers.
basically we can't regard *any* book as canon. If all this is emerging
only in Puppet King, why does PK have to be right?
> >> >not exactly a free choice, was it?
> >>
> >> The choice to leave was always there. Or to join Porthios in rebellion.
> >
> >the entire nation becomes Viet Cong?
>
> Or covert resistance fighters and underground support.
KoT forms a big line on the northern border. They start marching. They
keep going till they're a big line on the southern border.
> >> You want to lock Rashas and Gunthar in a tower and see if they fall in
> >> love? The Korodullin/Mayaserana thing worked because both were of
> >> marrying age and Eddings was trying to show that the differences
> >> between Mimbrate and Asturian Arends were superficial at best. It
> >> might work for two elves (Rashas and Konnal) but I don't think Rashas
> >> was Konnal's type.
> >
> >Eddings was probably smoking something. Reminds me of a Captain Planet
> >episode about hate where Northern Ireland, Palestine and Suth Ifrika
> >were trivialised. I wasn't talking about locking them up and waiting
> >for one to get pregnant. I meant regular contact. It's much easier to
> >hate somebody you don't know.
>
> Agreed -- it's easier to hate in ignorance. But the only leader willing to
> start that contact was Porthios, and he was dethroned.
forcing them together might work
> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
> >> She went for fading into shadows as opposed to being recognized as a
> >> player. Again, misjudgement. She's not Silk from the Belgariad.
> >
> ><image of Sean poleaxing Linsha on the way to Sanction and doing her job
> >for her>
>
> Sean's too short and too young. Warwicke Davis doesn't look anything
> like Linsha.
he wouldn't try and impersonate Linsha, although he might appropriate
her credentials. And he doesn't look like Willow; he's a compact 5'10".
> >the average streetscum wouldn't have a good reason for taking her on.
> >Her boyfriend might have more reliable info.
>
> Okay, she gambles and drinks at the tavern and has a steady job. Why's
> this guy going to take her more seriously than he does in OoG if no one
> has a good reason for taking her on?
there are rumours, but nobody's going to go after her without potential
for gain. His investigative capacities could determine that she is in
fact the Sanction Alley Basher.
> >> >> <Elven aging and memory is a known DL continuity issue>
> >> Tas dying a cockroach's death bothered me more, but yes, DoSF
> >> is not one of my favorite DL books.
> >
> ><squish>
> >just setting the stage for Eve of the Maelstrom. Why just have a HotL
> >steal the show when you can have a new, interesting character actually
> >die so a 90ish HotL can live?
>
> I wasn't a fan of Jasper's -- I like Gair more until his personality was
> radically transformed into another character in the Silver Stair -- but
> Goldmoon's reason for being sent back was very weak. And Tas'
> death was just too "cute" -- death by bigfoot -- to be taken seriously.
Goldmoon had no reason to be sent back. And of course you weren't a fan
of Jasper's - he was never given a chance to become popular, because his
obvious status as Goldmoon's replacement was countermanded.
> >> People in authority can get away with that. It wasn't as if Gunthar could
> >> pass the Measure on his own authority.
> >
> >how arrogant is it though? A grand master acting like that is grounds
> >for a No Confidence vote.
>
> Leaders have the right to prepare drafts of documents without the
> world seeing them -- everyone's going to argue them anyway, so it's best
> to start people off with a coherent set of principles.
the procedure is as follows: you get together with your private staffers
(a competent solicitor, a philosopher and a military advisor at least),
and thrash out the desired alterations. A professional scribe actually
writes it down, and recommends editing. That way you end up with a
professionally drafted set of proposals to present to cabinet (and
Gunthar obviously would have been head of a cabinet).
> >> If the dragon overlords get the elves to grow up, then that's a positive
> >for the 5th age.
> >
> >let's burn their @#$%^&* forests and then see what the little $%^&*( do
>
> I don't know how scared the elves will be, seeing that Samar woke up
> Aeren just so he could tell Silvanoshei a bedtime story.
Samar is something of an exception, and it seemed like a hokey plot
device to me. Why the hell couldn't Samah just tell the bloody story?
> >> >> >> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
> >hence, the Hitler Clause. The German National Socialist Workers Party
> >showed it could be done.
>
> But Hitler had the support of the army. It's a lot harder today in developed
> countries for armies to decide who's in power.
He also had a nicely benefiting upper echelon.
> >> There was a comedy long time ago by Norman Lear that did a hilarious
> >> send up of the Presidency, but it didn't last long. Political humor just
> >> isn't considered mainstream enough for weekly TV here.
> >
> >sounds ridiculous considering that America actually rams civics down
> >schoolchildren's throats, while here it's a yr11 politics elective.
>
> Growing up, jokes about the President were quite common. I think
> political comedy doesn't get ratings because people are so used to the
> government being satirized across all media.
'The president's corrupt heh heh heh.' Nothing like avoiding details.
> ><Chow Yun Fat's comin' to getcha>
> >> I'll wear heels.
> >
> >you're going to wear ten inch heels? Besides, his senses aren't that
> >heavily warped.
>
> They are if he thinks he's in the Orient when he's really in NY.
he's probably where he thinks he is
> >> My old DM used mood music and that was fun. Special effects noises
> >> worked about 50% of the time.
> >
> >actually it was a case of 'When I push back it sounds like an old window
> >being slid open. Cool!' Normally I don't even do much dialogue,
> >although I tend to get emotions across. I thought mood music tended to
> >distract, although my Werewolf DM (the short ugly guy who got
> >decapitated) decided to keep playing Madonna's Ray o' lite seedy.
>
> Madonna for an rpg? Ugh. Instrumental soundtracks worked.
He just turned it on and left it on. We nearly got out the over 'n
under twelve gauge.
> >> >> <Altie won the office Halloween contest>
> >> Already did -- but it's not a trick until someone falls for it.
> >what I like about All Hallows Eve is that if you don't give them a lolly
> >then they have to turn a trick
>
> And assuming the trick is something pleasant is a no-no.
maybe I should stop answering the door with a Blackhawk .44 in my belt
> >> >> >Exactly what did you do to win this contest?
> >> >>
> >> >> Wouldn't you like to know?
> >> >
> >> >would I?
> >>
> >> Probably not. It involved subjecting one of my colleagues to a startling
> >> transformation.
> >
> >whuh?
>
> The person in question is a good sport, and is recovering nicely from
> the humiliation, so I'll just leave it at that.
a subordinate you mean?
> <should've pulled out Ravenloft, V:tM, Cthulhu, and in fact every rpg to
> ever touch on vampires. >
>
> >> Luckily, the role playing contingent in our department is woefully limited,
> >> with the hard-core rpg'ers safely away in Phoenix.
> >
> >that's the real reason you went down to purge 'em, isn't it? The truth
> >will out (if I don't get my weekly brown paper bag).
>
> By the time the sandwiches get to Australia, they'll be stale.
sandwiches in bag result in lower standard of corruption. I was
thinking more in monetary terms.
But the
> roleplayers weren't the guys who were sent the warning the last time --
> they're actually rather creative hardworking types.
sent the warning? More like you were dropped from orbit.
Rohan ".44 Brujah" Tolstrup
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Warwicke Davis played the title character in Willow>
>remember, that came out when I was in primary school. I recall that the
>heroine was cool and I thought that the skull-masks were ripping off
>Lone Wolf rather shockingly.
Warwicke has done other things -- like costumed parts in Return
of the Jedi and Phantom Menace and he's also the title character
in the Leprechaun horror movies. He actually came to mind because
he was a guest at Gen Con, which I didn't attend.
I didn't care for the two headed dragon, but I thought Lucas overall did
a good job of conveying high fantasy on the big screen. Since there's
a lack of good pictures of Ladonna, I should point out that the evil
Queen in Willow would make a good Gene doll makeover project.
>
>> >> >> >> <The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
>> Maybe those comments about it being "souvlaki, honest" had something
>> to do with that.
>
>when did I say that?
August 1. Comment about only reading penthouse for the articles.
>
>> Or pretty warped to put a dubious object like that following a remark
>> about bestiality insinuations.
>
>oh. I just thought a dagger dripping a pool of blood would be kewl.
I know that now, especially since that fits in with the way your usual
posting style.
>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
>you're assuming here that they can't take it seriously. Remember,
>probably the vast majority of politicians are just playing the game.
>Why filibuster when election is actually based on character/competence
>rather than image?
Because "the best" is a subjective human categorization. No one
candidate will be ideal and there is nothing to stop these objective
minds from considering different talents to be the right choice.
>
>> >> >> >> <Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
>> Zeboim wouldn't openly break ranks with Tak. And Tak is a believer
>> in the victor getting the spoils.
>
>she's also into changing the rules. And if Takhy doesn't care about the
>shit, Zeboim's helping *his* would-be replacement along...
Tak would let Zeboim do as she pleases if Zeboim comes up with a better
candidate. But if Zeb's guy is inferior, Tak would protect Ariakas' killer.
>
>> >what!!!!!? You'd sacrifice *roleplaying* just so you can go out and
>> >kneecap people with your butt?
>>
>> Of course, but that kneecap to butt dance must be an Aussie fad.
>
>I understand the normal procedure is gluteal contact, especially as the
>human derriere is most equipped to withstand that kind of punishment.
Are they rerunning old '70s movies in Australia? "The Bump" as a stand
alone dance is very ancient history. Social dancing involves a lot less
body contact these days, unless it's meant to be romantic or erotic.
Ballroom dancing is pretty cool.
>
<Vampire and Shadowrun role playing bonanza.>
That Vampire game sounded like it played well but that Shadowrun
session sounded like a bad "Congo" rip-off.
>I prefer Cyberpunk - you don't have to roll nearly as many bloody dice!
Yep, there was a limit to my dice tolerance as well, especially when the
DMs went overboard with rolling for random encounters. A DM should
just make the decision sometimes, instead of relying on dice for all
the answers.
>
>Pirvirt was meant to be serious about honour but with a chequered past.
>He certainly wasn't a Crownguard, just a boring character.
Perhaps the KoS wouldn't send a knight with a past who may not be
able to resist temptation. Linsha certainly doesn't seem like she has
any latent Kitiara tendencies.
>> I'd love to see stats on what kind of demographic Rabe's trilogy attracts.
>> It does seem to have an appeal for youngish fans who never read W&H.
>
>...and fit a number of other stereotypes
such as?
>
>> >> >> >> <You can't be a peasant and join the KoS>
>> >more like scholarship cases. As W&H totally failed to observe RE the
>> >KoT, you just don't get that many people who meet the criteria.
>>
>> The KoT is allowed to accumulate wealth through looting, though.
>
>It's not like the KoS can't have their own economic base. They used to
>own Solamnia after all.
>> Educating the KoS won't resolve loyalty conflicts in a mage. Suppose
>> Solinari went against his Pop and wanted the dragon orb saved instead
>> of smashed, what is the right choice for a "KoS" mage? This is beyond
>> telling the KoS that destroying magic is not part of the Measure.
>
>I'm sure most KoS disagreed with that idea. But the orb was only
>destroyed because everybody was fighting over it. A KoS mage probably
>would have made a replica for smashing purposes and stashed the original
>in Wayreth where it belongs.
But how honorable is it to lie to most of your allies and your fellow knights
by hiding something that was supposed to be destroyed because it was
too powerful?
>
>> ><sickening vision of KoS turning into a Democrat fundraiser>
>>
>> Money makes the worlds go 'round -- even Krynn.
>
>talk to Kinthalas
Kinth wouldn't disagree with the above unless I added a Planescape/
Spelljammer component. And involving Krynn in either of those two
scenarios doesn't bother me -- if players want to use it, I don't see
why they can't.
>
>> >> <Linsha should have beefed up her role as evil Lynn.>
>> And that's different from her Lynn persona how, exactly? Just because
>> she guards the shop doesn't mean someone's going to attack it.
>
>pick somebody with (none too powerful) enemies as a patron then.
We're back full circle -- killing people would have attracted undue attention
and she wasn't going for a flamboyant persona like her aunt Dez.
>
>> >> >> <Caramon wanted to adventure when young>
>> Caramon was the kind of man the knights desperately needed in the
>> ranks. Gunthar would have seen his value the same as the Mad Baron.
>
>he was clinically stupid back then! Exactly what illegal substance was
>he smoking throughout BiA?
Eucalyptus he bummed off of Weird Meggin. If you're making the case
for bankrolling lower class folks into the KoS, Caramon would have
been the textbook case. Who says a Crown knight has to be a rocket
scientist?
>
>> <Eucalyptus leaves grow on trees>
>> >I'd better not tell you about the factory then
>>
>> You make silk plants? Interior decorating is an interesting career choice.
>
>no, I do not make silk plants.
Pity. Do you make the leaves out of construction paper then?
>
>> contingent can join the main army and ensure the defeat of the enemy,
>> or miss the main rendevous to protect a village under seige? The LoS
>> seems like the organization that would march off to ensure the defeat
>> of the main group and leave the stragglers to die.
>
>Pity we don't actually know squat about them. They've only actually
>featured in game material.
True, we've only seen the reason why Sara formed them in the novels,
not if they stuck to her vision. But if they're living via a strict code like
the knights, then the LoS would be redundant.
>
>> ><Eddings characters true neutral archetypes>
>> Belgarath's whole life is about intervening to make sure Belgarion was
>> born. He was very capable of standing by while the Asturians destroyed
>> Vo Wacune, and there was no sorcerous rescue mission to help free
>> some of the Marags.
>
>must be HELL knowing some things are predestined
The demise of Maragor was predestined, but so was the birth of Taiba.
There was nothing stopping Belgarath from saving a few Marags.
>
<Rohan comes back as Shalafi>
>I've got to find a sword to fall on.
Well, you might come back as Jellybean instead.
>
>basically we can't regard *any* book as canon. If all this is emerging
>only in Puppet King, why does PK have to be right?
Because PK is the only novels relating the details of what happened
in the elven lands during the Chaos war.
>
<Qualinesti could have formed KoT resistance cells>
>
>KoT forms a big line on the northern border. They start marching. They
>keep going till they're a big line on the southern border.
Rashas and the Senate did everything except throw rose petals at the
feet of the KoT. A nation should not be happy about being conquered
by the enemy.
>>
>> Agreed -- it's easier to hate in ignorance. But the only leader willing to
>> start that contact was Porthios, and he was dethroned.
>
>forcing them together might work
That's similar to what happened when Princess Grace of Monaco
and Queen Elizabeth tried to set up Caroline and Charles as a couple.
They threw them together so much that the pair ended up politely
snubbing each other for several years.
>
>> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>he wouldn't try and impersonate Linsha, although he might appropriate
>her credentials. And he doesn't look like Willow; he's a compact 5'10".
Sean in drag -- the KoS is really diverse these days.
>> Okay, she gambles and drinks at the tavern and has a steady job. Why's
>> this guy going to take her more seriously than he does in OoG if no one
>> has a good reason for taking her on?
>
>there are rumours, but nobody's going to go after her without potential
>for gain. His investigative capacities could determine that she is in
>fact the Sanction Alley Basher.
Anyone who takes a beating and stays beaten probably doesn't last
long in the Sanction food chain. A beaten thug has to revenge himself
on Linsha or lose his reputation.
>
>> >just setting the stage for Eve of the Maelstrom. Why just have a HotL
>> >steal the show when you can have a new, interesting character actually
>> >die so a 90ish HotL can live?
>>
>> I wasn't a fan of Jasper's -- I like Gair more until his personality was
>> radically transformed into another character in the Silver Stair -- but
>> Goldmoon's reason for being sent back was very weak. And Tas'
>> death was just too "cute" -- death by bigfoot -- to be taken seriously.
>
>Goldmoon had no reason to be sent back. And of course you weren't a fan
>of Jasper's - he was never given a chance to become popular, because his
>obvious status as Goldmoon's replacement was countermanded.
Jasper living would have violated DL continuity -- male dwarves named
Fireforge must die. A non HotL successor to Goldmoon would have
been my preferred choice, but it's a moot point none-the-less with her
resurrection.
>
<Gunthar was within his rights to revise a draft Measure alone>
>> Leaders have the right to prepare drafts of documents without the
>> world seeing them -- everyone's going to argue them anyway, so it's best
>> to start people off with a coherent set of principles.
>
>the procedure is as follows: you get together with your private staffers
>(a competent solicitor, a philosopher and a military advisor at least),
>and thrash out the desired alterations. A professional scribe actually
>writes it down, and recommends editing. That way you end up with a
>professionally drafted set of proposals to present to cabinet (and
>Gunthar obviously would have been head of a cabinet).
When it comes to a document like the Measure, Gunthar has to lead
the discussion by preparing a draft to debate over or the revisions will
take much longer than they need to. Asking for input is one thing,
having a bureacracy of authors is another.
>
<The elves don't seem scared of dragons, per the PK scenes with Aeren>
>Samar is something of an exception, and it seemed like a hokey plot
>device to me. Why the hell couldn't Samah just tell the bloody story?
>
>> >> >> >> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
So the Aussies voted to keep the Queen. You must be on
cloud nine.
>> Growing up, jokes about the President were quite common. I think
>> political comedy doesn't get ratings because people are so used to the
>> government being satirized across all media.
>
>'The president's corrupt heh heh heh.' Nothing like avoiding details.
Ken Starr avoided details? Is Aussie media censored?
>
>> ><Chow Yun Fat's comin' to getcha>
>
>he's probably where he thinks he is
How metaphysical.
>
>> >> My old DM used mood music and that was fun. Special effects noises
>> >> worked about 50% of the time.
>> Madonna for an rpg? Ugh. Instrumental soundtracks worked.
>
>He just turned it on and left it on. We nearly got out the over 'n
>under twelve gauge.
DMs are hard to come by. Next time just give the CD to Bunsen and
call it a frisbee.
>
>> >> >> <Altie won the office Halloween contest>
>> And assuming the trick is something pleasant is a no-no.
>
>maybe I should stop answering the door with a Blackhawk .44 in my belt
You could always wear a cowboy hat, switch guns and pretend to
be Doc Holliday. You're already fond of wearing black.
>
>> >> >> >Exactly what did you do to win this contest?
>> The person in question is a good sport, and is recovering nicely from
>> the humiliation, so I'll just leave it at that.
>
>a subordinate you mean?
No, a very fun colleague who didn't think anyone would bring a camera.
>
>> <should've pulled out Ravenloft, V:tM, Cthulhu, and in fact every rpg to
>> ever touch on vampires. >
>>
>sandwiches in bag result in lower standard of corruption. I was
>thinking more in monetary terms.
Well, I've got a couple of those Halloween free treat coupons from
McDonald's that I can send you.
>
> But the
>> roleplayers weren't the guys who were sent the warning the last time --
>> they're actually rather creative hardworking types.
>
>sent the warning? More like you were dropped from orbit.
Got to catch the villians by surprise and in the act for a warning to
be effective. I'm going to be away again towards the end of November
but it's on much more pleasant project management business. For
putting up a quickie Phoenix trip, I'm also getting to go to Paris and
San Francisco. My mom's already freaking about my spending so
much time in the air, and the fact that my poor cousin was murdered
this past week by her boss isn't making her feel any better.
Tolstrup
> >remember, that came out when I was in primary school. I recall that the
> >heroine was cool and I thought that the skull-masks were ripping off
> >Lone Wolf rather shockingly.
>
> Warwicke has done other things -- like costumed parts in Return
> of the Jedi and Phantom Menace and he's also the title character
> in the Leprechaun horror movies. He actually came to mind because
> he was a guest at Gen Con, which I didn't attend.
...hence B.A. Felton hankering for the rpg version and sequel?
> I didn't care for the two headed dragon, but I thought Lucas overall did
> a good job of conveying high fantasy on the big screen. Since there's
> a lack of good pictures of Ladonna, I should point out that the evil
> Queen in Willow would make a good Gene doll makeover project.
actually, LaDonna was done pretty well in the comics, although I've only
got a few
> >> >> >> >> <The jury's still out on whether that picture was a dagger>
>
> >> Maybe those comments about it being "souvlaki, honest" had something
> >> to do with that.
> >
> >when did I say that?
>
> August 1. Comment about only reading penthouse for the articles.
haven't read a penthouse in several years, never actually bought one
> >> Or pretty warped to put a dubious object like that following a remark
> >> about bestiality insinuations.
> >
> >oh. I just thought a dagger dripping a pool of blood would be kewl.
>
> I know that now, especially since that fits in with the way your usual
> posting style.
also, if I was doing something else it's not like I don't know my
subject matter
> >> >> >> >> >> >> <A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods.>
> >you're assuming here that they can't take it seriously. Remember,
> >probably the vast majority of politicians are just playing the game.
> >Why filibuster when election is actually based on character/competence
> >rather than image?
>
> Because "the best" is a subjective human categorization. No one
> candidate will be ideal and there is nothing to stop these objective
> minds from considering different talents to be the right choice.
well, they've already been elected (and they have no control over the
process), so that problem is somewhat minimised. I believe every
American politician starts fighting his next campaign once elected?
> >> >> >> >> <Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
> >> Zeboim wouldn't openly break ranks with Tak. And Tak is a believer
> >> in the victor getting the spoils.
> >
> >she's also into changing the rules. And if Takhy doesn't care about the
> >shit, Zeboim's helping *his* would-be replacement along...
>
> Tak would let Zeboim do as she pleases if Zeboim comes up with a better
> candidate. But if Zeb's guy is inferior, Tak would protect Ariakas' killer.
either way, the guy's screwed. Who wants to be Takhy's 'favorite'?
> >> >what!!!!!? You'd sacrifice *roleplaying* just so you can go out and
> >> >kneecap people with your butt?
> >>
> >> Of course, but that kneecap to butt dance must be an Aussie fad.
> >
> >I understand the normal procedure is gluteal contact, especially as the
> >human derriere is most equipped to withstand that kind of punishment.
>
> Are they rerunning old '70s movies in Australia? "The Bump" as a stand
> alone dance is very ancient history. Social dancing involves a lot less
> body contact these days, unless it's meant to be romantic or erotic.
> Ballroom dancing is pretty cool.
yes, I vaguely recall a few steps from Pride of Erin. Er, Strictly
Ballroom is a bit of a national thing...
> <Vampire and Shadowrun role playing bonanza.>
> That Vampire game sounded like it played well but that Shadowrun
> session sounded like a bad "Congo" rip-off.
actually, the SR game went well (apart from the bad 'gorilla warfare'
pun somebody my age didn't pick up) and the Vampire game left me having
taken about four actions, due to the others talking and infighting.
Factor in a sleepy DM and having to create characters at the start...
> >I prefer Cyberpunk - you don't have to roll nearly as many bloody dice!
>
> Yep, there was a limit to my dice tolerance as well, especially when the
> DMs went overboard with rolling for random encounters. A DM should
> just make the decision sometimes, instead of relying on dice for all
> the answers.
Shadowrun I had to roll 5d6 for each of the eight pygmies I was going
full auto on. Difficulty increased with each one, and also I had seven
'pool' dice which I could split between the eight attacks as I chose.
When I got speared I then had to roll fifteen dice per spear. Also, if
you get Initiative 21 you also act on 11 and 1. CP roll d10 + reflexes
for initiative. Roll d10 + Ref + submachinegun, vs a difficulty set by
either a formula or 'yeah, that's average.' If 3rnd burst they take d3
bullets, roll location. If full auto, one bullet per point over
requirement hits. Roll a few damage dice, and in my case I call for a
single 'representative' roll. Subtract Stopping Power and Body Type
Modifier, and then give me a Stun/Death save. Fairly simple.
> >Pirvirt was meant to be serious about honour but with a chequered past.
> >He certainly wasn't a Crownguard, just a boring character.
>
> Perhaps the KoS wouldn't send a knight with a past who may not be
> able to resist temptation. Linsha certainly doesn't seem like she has
> any latent Kitiara tendencies.
so it's better to send a naive idiot than an experienced cynic?
> >> I'd love to see stats on what kind of demographic Rabe's trilogy attracts.
> >> It does seem to have an appeal for youngish fans who never read W&H.
> >
> >...and fit a number of other stereotypes
>
> such as?
vote 1 your favorite character. Pokemon will last forever. What's
wrong with bringing Raistlin back so he can go on adventures with his
great-grandchildren and kill dragons?
<orb go byebye>
> >I'm sure most KoS disagreed with that idea. But the orb was only
> >destroyed because everybody was fighting over it. A KoS mage probably
> >would have made a replica for smashing purposes and stashed the original
> >in Wayreth where it belongs.
>
> But how honorable is it to lie to most of your allies and your fellow knights
> by hiding something that was supposed to be destroyed because it was
> too powerful?
they should never have left the towers, where they belong. Fundamental
to the Oath is a concept of Higher Duty.
> >> ><sickening vision of KoS turning into a Democrat fundraiser>
> >>
> >> Money makes the worlds go 'round -- even Krynn.
> >
> >talk to Kinthalas
>
> Kinth wouldn't disagree with the above unless I added a Planescape/
> Spelljammer component. And involving Krynn in either of those two
> scenarios doesn't bother me -- if players want to use it, I don't see
> why they can't.
sorry about the attack dog then
> >> >> <Linsha should have beefed up her role as evil Lynn.>
>
> >> And that's different from her Lynn persona how, exactly? Just because
> >> she guards the shop doesn't mean someone's going to attack it.
> >
> >pick somebody with (none too powerful) enemies as a patron then.
>
> We're back full circle -- killing people would have attracted undue attention
> and she wasn't going for a flamboyant persona like her aunt Dez.
she *needs* attention, and fundamentally she can't realistically just
sit around saying 'yeah, I bashed him good. But can I have an extension
on my tab? I'll give you a... no I won't... oops!'
> >> >> >> <Caramon wanted to adventure when young>
>
> >> Caramon was the kind of man the knights desperately needed in the
> >> ranks. Gunthar would have seen his value the same as the Mad Baron.
> >
> >he was clinically stupid back then! Exactly what illegal substance was
> >he smoking throughout BiA?
>
> Eucalyptus he bummed off of Weird Meggin. If you're making the case
> for bankrolling lower class folks into the KoS, Caramon would have
> been the textbook case. Who says a Crown knight has to be a rocket
> scientist?
I'd rather have somebody who *understands* the Oath. The point is, the
Measure got screwed up through narrow interpretation, and only people
like Sturm actually understood the intent behind it.
> >> <Eucalyptus leaves grow on trees>
> >> You make silk plants? Interior decorating is an interesting career choice.
> >
> >no, I do not make silk plants.
>
> Pity. Do you make the leaves out of construction paper then?
I do not 'manufacture' plants
> >Pity we don't actually know squat about them. They've only actually
> >featured in game material.
>
> True, we've only seen the reason why Sara formed them in the novels,
> not if they stuck to her vision. But if they're living via a strict code like
> the knights, then the LoS would be redundant.
they *are* redundant. They're KoS without the dress code and religion.
> >> ><Eddings characters true neutral archetypes>
> >must be HELL knowing some things are predestined
>
> The demise of Maragor was predestined, but so was the birth of Taiba.
> There was nothing stopping Belgarath from saving a few Marags.
wouldn't be like him to admit weakness, would it? Good question, and
big surprise he needed a shield to handle the bloody orb.
> <Rohan comes back as Shalafi>
> >I've got to find a sword to fall on.
>
> Well, you might come back as Jellybean instead.
not so bad I guess... but don't Canadians 'do things' to farm animals?
> >basically we can't regard *any* book as canon. If all this is emerging
> >only in Puppet King, why does PK have to be right?
>
> Because PK is the only novels relating the details of what happened
> in the elven lands during the Chaos war.
so many shortcomings there... why not talk about Beryl?
> <Qualinesti could have formed KoT resistance cells>
> >KoT forms a big line on the northern border. They start marching. They
> >keep going till they're a big line on the southern border.
>
> Rashas and the Senate did everything except throw rose petals at the
> feet of the KoT. A nation should not be happy about being conquered
> by the enemy.
PK - how reliable? We already know Niles smokes illegal substances.
> >forcing them together might work
>
> That's similar to what happened when Princess Grace of Monaco
> and Queen Elizabeth tried to set up Caroline and Charles as a couple.
> They threw them together so much that the pair ended up politely
> snubbing each other for several years.
forcing them to work together 'n understand each other?
> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
> >he wouldn't try and impersonate Linsha, although he might appropriate
> >her credentials. And he doesn't look like Willow; he's a compact 5'10".
>
> Sean in drag -- the KoS is really diverse these days.
he'd probably say he was her replacement, bad case of the 'flu.
> >there are rumours, but nobody's going to go after her without potential
> >for gain. His investigative capacities could determine that she is in
> >fact the Sanction Alley Basher.
>
> Anyone who takes a beating and stays beaten probably doesn't last
> long in the Sanction food chain. A beaten thug has to revenge himself
> on Linsha or lose his reputation.
so she can plant circumstantial evidence that it was Thark the
Destructor...
> >> I wasn't a fan of Jasper's -- I like Gair more until his personality was
> >> radically transformed into another character in the Silver Stair -- but
> >> Goldmoon's reason for being sent back was very weak. And Tas'
> >> death was just too "cute" -- death by bigfoot -- to be taken seriously.
> >
> >Goldmoon had no reason to be sent back. And of course you weren't a fan
> >of Jasper's - he was never given a chance to become popular, because his
> >obvious status as Goldmoon's replacement was countermanded.
>
> Jasper living would have violated DL continuity -- male dwarves named
> Fireforge must die.
if he hadn't been a Fireforge he would have been an interesting
character
A non HotL successor to Goldmoon would have
> been my preferred choice, but it's a moot point none-the-less with her
> resurrection.
let's just hammer in a stake
> <Gunthar was within his rights to revise a draft Measure alone>
> >the procedure is as follows: you get together with your private staffers
> >(a competent solicitor, a philosopher and a military advisor at least),
> >and thrash out the desired alterations. A professional scribe actually
> >writes it down, and recommends editing. That way you end up with a
> >professionally drafted set of proposals to present to cabinet (and
> >Gunthar obviously would have been head of a cabinet).
>
> When it comes to a document like the Measure, Gunthar has to lead
> the discussion by preparing a draft to debate over or the revisions will
> take much longer than they need to. Asking for input is one thing,
> having a bureacracy of authors is another.
fundamentally it must be written with input from professionals and
actually drafted by professionals.
> >> >> >> >> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
>
> So the Aussies voted to keep the Queen. You must be on
> cloud nine.
you heard. Actually, my state and Canberra were the only Yes Zones.
Result, the media's going ballistic saying what a bad outcome it is, and
to my knowledge a buried paragraph has been devoted to the truth - that
we were told what to think by politicians, celebrities and the media,
and voted against a model without a Hitler Clause.
> >'The president's corrupt heh heh heh.' Nothing like avoiding details.
>
> Ken Starr avoided details? Is Aussie media censored?
that was a ridiculous sideshow
> >> ><Chow Yun Fat's comin' to getcha>
> >he's probably where he thinks he is
>
> How metaphysical.
see the little red dot?
> >> Madonna for an rpg? Ugh. Instrumental soundtracks worked.
> >
> >He just turned it on and left it on. We nearly got out the over 'n
> >under twelve gauge.
>
> DMs are hard to come by. Next time just give the CD to Bunsen and
> call it a frisbee.
the word is 'pull.' For DMslaying purposes I use a 9mm Steyr, because
you need the 18rnds to get the bastards. Actually, any roleplayer could
DM, it's just that only a minority get to.
> >> >> >> <Altie won the office Halloween contest>
> >> And assuming the trick is something pleasant is a no-no.
> >maybe I should stop answering the door with a Blackhawk .44 in my belt
>
> You could always wear a cowboy hat, switch guns and pretend to
> be Doc Holliday. You're already fond of wearing black.
actually, more like a black raincoat over jeans and a blue windcheater,
with sunglasses. I look ok.
> >> >> >> >Exactly what did you do to win this contest?
>
> >> The person in question is a good sport, and is recovering nicely from
> >> the humiliation, so I'll just leave it at that.
> >
> >a subordinate you mean?
>
> No, a very fun colleague who didn't think anyone would bring a camera.
they actually do that with the copier?
> >> <should've pulled out Ravenloft, V:tM, Cthulhu, and in fact every rpg to
> >> ever touch on vampires. >
> >sandwiches in bag result in lower standard of corruption. I was
> >thinking more in monetary terms.
>
> Well, I've got a couple of those Halloween free treat coupons from
> McDonald's that I can send you.
they'd be expired by the time I'm next legally in America
> > But the
> >> roleplayers weren't the guys who were sent the warning the last time --
> >> they're actually rather creative hardworking types.
> >
> >sent the warning? More like you were dropped from orbit.
>
> Got to catch the villians by surprise and in the act for a warning to
> be effective. I'm going to be away again towards the end of November
> but it's on much more pleasant project management business. For
> putting up a quickie Phoenix trip, I'm also getting to go to Paris and
> San Francisco. My mom's already freaking about my spending so
> much time in the air, and the fact that my poor cousin was murdered
> this past week by her boss isn't making her feel any better.
oh shit. You okay about it?
When entering Paris, don't forget to fake a broken leg and have a sniper
rifle stashed inside the crutch. It's mandatory.
Eww SF pretzels...
Rohan Tolstrup
Altarielle
<Tols...@c032.aone.net.au> writes:
<Warwicke Davis was at Gen Con>
>
>...hence B.A. Felton hankering for the rpg version and sequel?
Who?
>actually, LaDonna was done pretty well in the comics, although I've only
>got a few
The comics are pretty cheap, so I might pick up a few before I suggest
that my friend choose another sorceress. It's just that Galadriel is
such so overdone already, and the Gene doll has a Marlene Dietrich
type look that I sort of looks like LaDonna in my mind.
>
>> >when did I say that?
>>
>> August 1. Comment about only reading penthouse for the articles.
>
>haven't read a penthouse in several years, never actually bought one
You mean penthouse is meant to be read?
>
>> I know that now, especially since that fits in with the way your usual
>> posting style.
>
>also, if I was doing something else it's not like I don't know my
>subject matter
Yes, you and your subject matter are probably on a first name basis.
>
<A council of mortal minds takes over for the gods>
>> Because "the best" is a subjective human categorization. No one
>> candidate will be ideal and there is nothing to stop these objective
>> minds from considering different talents to be the right choice.
>
>well, they've already been elected (and they have no control over the
>process), so that problem is somewhat minimised. I believe every
>American politician starts fighting his next campaign once elected?
An American politician knows he can be gotten rid of at any point in
time. What happens if these minds go down a path the rest of the
population doesn't agree with? Do they get impeached?
>
<Tak would punish someone who bumped off Ariakas>
>> Tak would let Zeboim do as she pleases if Zeboim comes up with a
>> better candidate. But if Zeb's guy is inferior, Tak would protect
>> Ariakas' killer.
>
>either way, the guy's screwed. Who wants to be Takhy's 'favorite'?
Ariakas? Ariakan? Verminaard? Competitive folks get a rush from
playing on the edge.
>
>> Are they rerunning old '70s movies in Australia? "The Bump" as a stand
>> alone dance is very ancient history. Social dancing involves a lot less
>> body contact these days, unless it's meant to be romantic or erotic.
>> Ballroom dancing is pretty cool.
>
>yes, I vaguely recall a few steps from Pride of Erin. Er, Strictly
>Ballroom is a bit of a national thing...
I'd forgotten all about that great movie. Ballroom dancing is great
exercise, but I can't go more than a half hour at a time on my feet.
Thank God for stationary bikes.
>
>> <Vampire and Shadowrun role playing bonanza.>
>Factor in a sleepy DM and having to create characters at the start...
It's a good thing you don't use mood music in your games then. You'd
spend half your time waking up your DM, and the other time reminding
him where he left off.
>
<Example of dice addiction scenario that almost makes Magic look
appealing>
That was a sarcastic example, right?
>> Perhaps the KoS wouldn't send a knight with a past who may not be
>> able to resist temptation. Linsha certainly doesn't seem like she has
>> any latent Kitiara tendencies.
>
>so it's better to send a naive idiot than an experienced cynic?
More like sending in a model Rose knight vs. someone who may
backslide. Besides, many of the cynics may have left the KoS when
the gods departed.
>
<Stereotypical characteristics of Rabe fans>
>
>vote 1 your favorite character. Pokemon will last forever. What's
>wrong with bringing Raistlin back so he can go on adventures with his
>great-grandchildren and kill dragons?
You can't be too hard on the younger generation -- we're talking 10-14
year olds. Didn't you ever write any crossovers you're embarrassed
to own up to now that you're legal? And I am not a Rabe fan but I don't
mind Raistlin stories.
>
><orb go byebye>
>> But how honorable is it to lie to most of your allies and your fellow
>knights by hiding something that was supposed to be destroyed
>because it was too powerful?
>
>they should never have left the towers, where they belong. Fundamental
>to the Oath is a concept of Higher Duty.
But the intrinsic higher duty is to Paladine. A KoS mage, per your
definition, would be in violation of the Oath. And suppose Solinari
agrees to support Nuitari for the benefit of magic -- how's a KoS
mage going to help Nuitari and stay true to the Oath?
>
<Altie doesn't mind Planescape and Spelljammer>
>
>sorry about the attack dog then
Hope you didn't want it back.
>
>> >> >> <Linsha should have beefed up her role as evil Lynn.>
>> We're back full circle -- killing people would have attracted undue
>attention and she wasn't going for a flamboyant persona like her
>aunt Dez.
>
>she *needs* attention, and fundamentally she can't realistically just
>sit around saying 'yeah, I bashed him good. But can I have an extension
>on my tab? I'll give you a... no I won't... oops!'
If we compare Lynn to Dez, Linsha acted just like her aunt did when
Trephas trotted through the door of the Trough. If she hadn't have
seen Sir Galahad in that guy, the act would have held up. Lynn would
have remained a nondescript nobody.
>
>> >> >> >> <Caramon wanted to adventure when young>
>> Eucalyptus he bummed off of Weird Meggin. If you're making the case
>> for bankrolling lower class folks into the KoS, Caramon would have
>> been the textbook case. Who says a Crown knight has to be a rocket
>> scientist?
>
>I'd rather have somebody who *understands* the Oath. The point is, the
>Measure got screwed up through narrow interpretation, and only people
>like Sturm actually understood the intent behind it.
I think Caramon, brainless as he was when young, had a better
grip on what the Oath really meant than Sturm did. Caramon was
always the boy scout, while Sturm believed in following the Measure
to the letter because his mom was still alive and drilling it into him.
>
>> >> <Eucalyptus leaves grow on trees>
>> Pity. Do you make the leaves out of construction paper then?
>
>I do not 'manufacture' plants
What a shame -- crafts can be fun sometimes. I'm on a sewing kick
after discovering that several men at the doll convention can outsew me
with one hand tied behind their backs.
But aren't Eucalyptus trees too big to grow in your backyard.
>
<We haven't seen enough material on the LoS>
>
>they *are* redundant. They're KoS without the dress code and religion.
But they don't have to be, if they abandon the concept of a rigid code
like the Measure.
>
>> >> ><Eddings characters true neutral archetypes>
>> >must be HELL knowing some things are predestined
>>
>> The demise of Maragor was predestined, but so was the birth of Taiba.
>> There was nothing stopping Belgarath from saving a few Marags.
>
>wouldn't be like him to admit weakness, would it? Good question, and
>big surprise he needed a shield to handle the bloody orb.
The whole purity concept behind the orb was a little weak. After all,
Garion has killed and sired children, so he's just like every other man
on Riva. Technically Polgara, who's never killed to date, would be a
more likely orb keeper.
>
>> <Rohan comes back as Shalafi>
>> >I've got to find a sword to fall on.
>>
>> Well, you might come back as Jellybean instead.
>
>not so bad I guess... but don't Canadians 'do things' to farm animals?
I'll let Jellybean speak for himself.
>
>> >basically we can't regard *any* book as canon. If all this is emerging
>> >only in Puppet King, why does PK have to be right?
>>
>> Because PK is the only novels relating the details of what happened
>> in the elven lands during the Chaos war.
>
>so many shortcomings there... why not talk about Beryl?
I'd love to, if I knew more about her. Maybe Beryl will get her due in
Battle Lines.
>
>> <Qualinesti could have formed KoT resistance cells>
>> Rashas and the Senate did everything except throw rose petals at the
>> feet of the KoT. A nation should not be happy about being conquered
>> by the enemy.
>
>PK - how reliable? We already know Niles smokes illegal substances.
Could be the source of true inspiration. Look at what drugs did for
the Delphic Oracle.
>
>> >forcing them together might work
>>
>> That's similar to what happened when Princess Grace of Monaco
>> and Queen Elizabeth tried to set up Caroline and Charles as a couple.
>> They threw them together so much that the pair ended up politely
>> snubbing each other for several years.
>
>forcing them to work together 'n understand each other?
Getting the old order to understand each other is pretty difficult.
Bringing together the younger generation, like the Masterharper
did in the Dragonriders of Pern, might work.
>
>> >> >> <Linsha can't handle playacting>
>> Sean in drag -- the KoS is really diverse these days.
>
>he'd probably say he was her replacement, bad case of the 'flu.
A 16 year old Rose knight?
>
>> Anyone who takes a beating and stays beaten probably doesn't last
>> long in the Sanction food chain. A beaten thug has to revenge himself
>> on Linsha or lose his reputation.
>
>so she can plant circumstantial evidence that it was Thark the
>Destructor...
Why would she go to the trouble of building up Thark's reputation
clandestinely? What's in it for her?
>
>> Jasper living would have violated DL continuity -- male dwarves named
>> Fireforge must die.
>if he hadn't been a Fireforge he would have been an interesting
>character
I would have preferred an elf like Gair Graymist. An elven head of the
Citadel might have been able to broaden the elves perspective into
a world view.
>
>A non HotL successor to Goldmoon would have
>> been my preferred choice, but it's a moot point none-the-less with her
>> resurrection.
>
>let's just hammer in a stake
>> When it comes to a document like the Measure, Gunthar has to lead
>> the discussion by preparing a draft to debate over or the revisions will
>> take much longer than they need to. Asking for input is one thing,
>> having a bureacracy of authors is another.
>
>fundamentally it must be written with input from professionals and
>actually drafted by professionals.
The KoS may present itself like a democracy, but it's a corporation,
albeit a non-profit one. A leader has to set direction to keep the process
moving and to ensure that the long term needs of the organization are
met. The rank and file thinks collectively in "here and now" only terms.
>
>> >> >> >> >> <Australia's referendum on becoming a republic>
>>
>> So the Aussies voted to keep the Queen. You must be on
>> cloud nine.
>
>you heard. Actually, my state and Canberra were the only Yes Zones.
>Result, the media's going ballistic saying what a bad outcome it is, and
>to my knowledge a buried paragraph has been devoted to the truth - that
>we were told what to think by politicians, celebrities and the media,
>and voted against a model without a Hitler Clause.
The media's handling it pretty objectively here. All three major papers
pointed out that Australians really objected to not being able to directly
elect the President, not to the removal of the Queen.
>
>> >'The president's corrupt heh heh heh.' Nothing like avoiding details.
>>
>> Ken Starr avoided details? Is Aussie media censored?
>
>that was a ridiculous sideshow
Watergate is the highbrow example.
>
>> >> ><Chow Yun Fat's comin' to getcha>
>> >he's probably where he thinks he is
>>
>> How metaphysical.
>
>see the little red dot?
Chow Yun Fat is a blob of ketchup?
>
>> DMs are hard to come by. Next time just give the CD to Bunsen and
>> call it a frisbee.
>
>the word is 'pull.' For DMslaying purposes I use a 9mm Steyr, because
>you need the 18rnds to get the bastards. Actually, any roleplayer could
>DM, it's just that only a minority get to.
Any player can DM, but the circle of good DMs is limited.
>
>> >> >> >> <Altie won the office Halloween contest>
>> You could always wear a cowboy hat, switch guns and pretend to
>> be Doc Holliday. You're already fond of wearing black.
>
>actually, more like a black raincoat over jeans and a blue windcheater,
>with sunglasses. I look ok.
Never said you didn't Prescription sunglasses I assume, or else your
aim will leave something to be desired. But this is your everyday attire
and we were talking about costumes.
>
>> >> >> >> >Exactly what did you do to win this contest?
>> No, a very fun colleague who didn't think anyone would bring a camera.
>
>they actually do that with the copier?
Yes, but that didn't happen here. We were given a bag of makeup and
costume bits and told to dress someone up, and we were creative.
>
>> Well, I've got a couple of those Halloween free treat coupons from
>> McDonald's that I can send you.
>
>they'd be expired by the time I'm next legally in America
They don't have monetary value, and are for free things like ice cream
cones, so you should be able to use them in Melbourne.
>
<The Egyptair crash and a family tragedy have shaken up Altie's mom>
>
>oh shit. You okay about it?
I'm better. My cousin's murder bothered me more than the crash. The
guy who did it confessed, and it turned out that he was previously
suspected in another woman's murder but was let go for lack of
evidence.
>When entering Paris, don't forget to fake a broken leg and have a sniper
>rifle stashed inside the crutch. It's mandatory.
Why? In honor of the French resistance?
>Eww SF pretzels...
My sentiments exactly. But I can make up for lack of snacks with
rib and seafood dinners.