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Message from discussion Gohan after Kaioshin's power-up vs SSJ3 Goku
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Rachel Oliver  
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 More options Feb 26 2004, 6:07 pm
Newsgroups: alt.fan.dragonball
From: Rachel Oliver <magikar...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:09:40 -0500
Local: Thurs, Feb 26 2004 6:09 pm
Subject: Re: Gohan after Kaioshin's power-up vs SSJ3 Goku

Mystic_GohaN wrote:
> Its definitely in the manga. There are so many scans of it floating around.

> Anyway Gohan > Gotenks > Goku.

> Goku and Vegeta remove their friends. They are excited that Boo has lost
> alot of his power. He's now back to the form Gohan dominated. But as they
> were going to blast a hole and attempt to leave, Goku says "But wait! No
> matter how much he may have returned to normal, even with that, we still
> can't beat him. If we leave here, we'll be killed for sure." Goku later on
> says the only chance by which they can beat Boo is by fusion. When Goku and
> Vegeta fight Super Boo in his body, that=filler.

Ah, yes, I see where you're talking about now. And I know the fight was
filler, because I don't even remember it (the Buu Saga is a rare case
where I've read the manga far more than I've seen the anime). Even so,
it still contradicts other things Gokuu has said, which I pointed out in
my other post. We can still ignore Gokuu's comments about his ability to
beat Buu and go by the way he and Gohan fared in battle, and my point
will still stand.

> With that being said, since
> Goku says he cand Vegeta can't beat Super Boo (one Gohan beat, and Vegeta
> pretty much agrees), while Gohan dominated that Boo, and Gotenks dominated
> him once he got serious, Gohan > Gotenks > Goku. Its that simple.

No it isn't so simple. Leave Gotenks out of this. He was a complete
idiot with very poor fighting skills. All he had was power that he
didn't even properly utilize. He wasted lots of time with stupid
attacks. By the time he got truly serious, SSJ3 ran out.

> About the Boo forms, the strongest to weakest goes like this:
> Gohan Boo > Gotenks Boo > Piccolo Boo>= "Buff Boo" > Super Boo > Kid Boo

>>/=/< Fat Boo. The reason for the last part is because Fat Boo seems to have

> the potential of attaining the power Super Boo had whenever angry. His power
> fluctuates to his temper, similar to Gohan. However, if too angry, he expels
> his evil, grey form. Kid Boo was stated to be the most dangerous of the
> Boo's but not the strongest. Kid Boo fought Southern Kaioshin, the strongest
> of the Kaioshin. Its said he gave Kid Boo the most trouble and when he
> absorbed him, Kid Boo was stronger. Kid Boo+Southern Kaioshin then absorbed
> Grand Kaioshin, which hindered Boo's power.

Let's have a closer look at the flashback about this.

KAIOUSHIN: "...First, two were killed. North Kaioushin and West
Kaioushin. ...And then, there was the toughest and strongest, South
Kaioushin. ...Somehow he was absorbed by Buu."
OLD KAIOUSHIN: "The huge Majin Buu we just saw?" [Apparently while Buu
is reverting, at one point he's all buff, and resembles the form he had
after absorbing South Kaioushin which is only shown in the anime.]
KAIOUSHIN: "Yes. ...The next one who was absorbed was the fat, but
gentle and mild-mannered Daikaioushin-sama. ...The Majin Buu that Bibidi
created was pure evil. He was a failure that Bibidi himself couldn't
even handle, but once Daikaioushin-sama was absorbed, it seems he became
able to control him."
OLD KAIOUSHIN: "So you're saying... The present small Majin Buu was the
first and worst guy..."
KAIOUSHIN: "Yes... Because of the absorbtion, his power dropped, and he
gained a mind... But he has once again returned to his original self...
Absolutely without self-control and mind... An incarnation of evil
itself..."

The "worst" part is pretty much what you meant about "most dangerous"
(ichiban yakkai), and yes there is no "strongest" specifically stated.
However, I don't see anything about South Kaioushin giving Buu the most
trouble, or anything about Buu getting stronger after absorbing him. I
wouldn't doubt that he did power up some from absorbing South Kaioushin,
but...

When Buu has multiple absorbed people inside of him, he resembles the
dominant one, right? He ends up looking just like Daikaioushin. It's
possible that Daikaioushin completely overwrote whatever South Kaioushin
had given Buu, since he is greater by definition, but that is mere
speculation. What isn't speculation is the fact that Kaioushin made a
point to mention that Buu's power was reduced. Why would he bother to
specifically mention a drop in power if it was just that the two
absorbtions cancelled each other out, or that Buu simply became easier
to control? And actually, that "because of the absorbtion" part was
"kyuushuu ni yotte", which could also be plural, "because of the
absorbtions".

> Its said many times Super Boo > Fat Boo.

Heh, I don't know what version you cited, but your page numbers were
slightly off. 5 is the "story up until now" page, and 6 is the mokuji.

> Vol 41, page 5: Piccolo: "Haven't you noticed the increase in Majin Boo's
> power?

"Kizukan? Majin Buu no ki no henka ni..." = "Haven't you noticed? The
change in Majin Buu's ki..."

It changed because he became a completely different person. A power up
is not implied.

> Page 6: Goku: "Is that Boo? Why has his power increased so much?

"Majin Buu daro? Kono ki wa... dou iu koto da?" = "Is that Majin Buu?
His ki... what's up with it?"

Again, his ki changed because he's a different person entirely. It's
just a complete restructuring of the previous person, and no new
material is added to increase his power at all.

> Page 29: Kuririn: Why don't I get the kids to fight him now?
> Piccolo: Have you not noticed? They can't beat him with fusion anymore."

"Wakaranakatta ka...! Ima no mama de wa, ikura fyuujon o shite mo,
machigainaku kate wa sen...!" = "Don't you understand! As it is now, no
matter how much they use Fusion, they undoubtedly could not win...!"

There is nothing implying "anymore". Even before the split, Piccolo had
wanted them to train more to make the Fusion more effective. They did
already lose to Fat Buu once. The events of the battle were only shown
in the anime, but Gotenks still left and immediately came back bruised
up in the manga.

> Piccolo also says Boo's body is more suited for fighting when he is coming
> towards the lookout. 4 instances which prove Super Boo > Fat Boo.

Yes, but being more suited for fighting does not make you more powerful.
Skill != Power. If that were the case, Freeza would've beaten Gokuu long
before he could ever become SSJ.

--
-The Ayatollah of Coca-Cola, FKA Triple Rach
http://magikarp46.dyndns.org

James Allen Stanfield, 03/19/86-10/01/02
Rest in Peace, Jim, we love you.


 
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