ZhaHaDum wrote in message <36a9226a.102922...@nntp.ftc-i.net>... >Does anyone have any translated (into English) manga that is not >on-line at Eric's Daily Dragonball Chapters. If so, I would appreciate >an e-mail with the file. I'm especially interested in the early >volumes. TIA!
Those are commercially available, so you should *buy* them if you really want to see 'em. They are republished by Viz, and you can get more info at http://www.viz.com/
Does anyone have any translated (into English) manga that is not on-line at Eric's Daily Dragonball Chapters. If so, I would appreciate an e-mail with the file. I'm especially interested in the early volumes. TIA!
On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:24:46 -0800, "Jonathan Powell"
<ej...@u.washington.edu> wrote: >ZhaHaDum wrote in message <36a9226a.102922...@nntp.ftc-i.net>... >>Does anyone have any translated (into English) manga that is not >>on-line at Eric's Daily Dragonball Chapters. If so, I would appreciate >>an e-mail with the file. I'm especially interested in the early >>volumes. TIA!
>Those are commercially available, so you should *buy* them if you really >want to see 'em. They are republished by Viz, and you can get more info at >http://www.viz.com/
Thanks for the obligatory politically correct response, JP! If I could, I would!. In the meantime, I'll repeat my request - If anyone has some old translated manga files sitting on their hard drives (maybe you got them long before DB came to Viz), please drop me a line. I've got up to Vol 1 Ch 5 in English, then 6&7 in french and 9 in Japanese. I have none of Vol 2. Any help would be appreciated.
> Thanks for the obligatory politically correct response, JP! If I > could, I would!. In the meantime, I'll repeat my request - If anyone > has some old translated manga files sitting on their hard drives > (maybe you got them long before DB came to Viz), please drop me a > line. I've got up to Vol 1 Ch 5 in English, then 6&7 in french and 9 > in Japanese. I have none of Vol 2. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks for Disreguarding the BEST CHOICE TO GET UNEDITED DRAGOBNALL IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!! why would i want something like that when the manga Viz is making is ALMOST 100% UNEDITED(last i heard they renamed one of piccolo's attack) and DOES LOOK NICE!!!!!!!! oh wait you never said why you can't get Viz's Comic.... -- Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email -- always at Talkway. http://www.talkway.com
>Those are commercially available, so you should *buy* them if you really >want to see 'em. They are republished by Viz, and you can get more info at >http://www.viz.com/
Yeah, I finally found one at a comic place near my house today! I got number 11 I think, anyway, it's the chapters where Goku turns into an Oozaru monkey after looking at the moon in the prison Pilaf put them in. It was kinda neat to read, but the letters section was even more entertaining.
"I am an eleven year old fan of the series, and I think Yamcha is the coolest! How OLD is Yamcha, anyway??" *LOL!!*
Oh yeah, and I got Mixx's Sailor Moon #4 to add to my collection as well. The store was cool, they had tons of Ureisa Yasura (sp) *Lum and Ranma 1/2 manga, in the original Japanese volumes. There was translated Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Maisson Ikkoku comics there, too. Unfortunately I spent all my money winning two auctions for French Sailor Moon manga on eBay this week.
*ahem* ANYWAY....I've gotten a bit off track. In short, the Viz comics are pretty cool, you should get them.
>Thanks for Disreguarding the BEST CHOICE TO GET UNEDITED DRAGOBNALL IN >AMERICA!!!!!!!!!! why would i want something like that when the manga >Viz is making is ALMOST 100% UNEDITED(last i heard they renamed one of >piccolo's attack) and DOES LOOK NICE!!!!!!!! oh wait you never said why >you can't get Viz's Comic....
Not only that, it reads in original format (right to left, the comic book opens from where the back of an English comic book would be, like real manga.)
>Not only that, it reads in original format (right to left, the comic >book opens from where the back of an English comic book would be, like >real manga.)
I read a book like that. It was a graphic novel of a manga, and was purty cool. _________________________ ~-=-~Leigh Aucoin~-=-~ ~-=-~"Haha! Look at those cows! They're stupid." -My friend~-=-~ ~-=-~(If you wanna mail me, you can figure what to do)~-=-~
>Yeah, I finally found one at a comic place near my house today! I got >number 11 I think, anyway, it's the chapters where Goku turns into an >Oozaru monkey after looking at the moon in the prison Pilaf put them >in. It was kinda neat to read, but the letters section was even more >entertaining.
Thats cool. Yea, it was hilarious:) One girl wrote in with a letter entirely devoted to Pu'ar. My comic store had a back issue of #6(Im missing 6 and 4) but I bought this months Maison Ikkoku instead, so I could get the video. This months issue was a bit dissappointing. You need some back issues:)
>Oh yeah, and I got Mixx's Sailor Moon #4 to add to my collection as >well.
That issue was great
>The store was cool, they had tons of Ureisa Yasura (sp) *Lum
Pretty sure its Uretsei Yatsumara
>and >Ranma 1/2 manga,
::screams:: THEY RAN OUT! AAAUUUUGH! GAWD GAWD GAWD GAWD! IT ONLY TOOK THEM 2 DAYS TO RUN OUT! *2* DAYS! WHY COULDN'T MY DAD TAKE ME YESTERDAY? WAAAAAA
> in the original Japanese volumes.
My store got in Sailor Moon Vlm. 18(last volume) in the original japanese, Kanji and all. I was considering it, but decided on some Maison Ikkoku and a Mixxzine instead. Oh, and a Sailor Moon, and a Dragonball. They also got in a Ranma 1/2 in its original Kanji, but I didn't buy that either. They have these ENORMOUS magazines, kanji, in Japanese. But its all faar to expensive. PREVIEWS made a mistake, when they said it wasn't Sailor Moon getting married at the end. Morons.
>There was >translated Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Maisson Ikkoku comics there, >too.
*sniff* They ran out of NGE also. *begins to cry* I think I picked up the last Maison Ikkoku. WHY DOES MANGA HAVE TO BE SO DAMNED POPULAR AROUND HERE?!?!?!?!
>Unfortunately I spent all my money winning two auctions for >French Sailor Moon manga on eBay this week.
Haha.
::cries::: WHY WHY WHY WHYWHY!?!?!?!?!??!!??!!?!??!?!??!?!?!?! Maybe that other store will have them... LUM RULES!
-Son Goku Saotome-
Goku: Prepare For Trouble Pikachu: Pi Pika!*Make it double Goku: To Protect The World From Devestation Pikachu: Pika Pi Pi!*to ignite all peoples in our nation Goku: PIKACHU! UNITE! Pikachu: Pi..*sorry.. Goku: Its Ok...
> Not only that, it reads in original format (right to left, the comic > book opens from where the back of an English comic book would be, like > real manga.)
Thanks for agreeing with me!
Just your overactive Sci-fi, Fantasy, Fiction, Anime freak :)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
1. I'd wait until Viz comes out with the graphic novels at this point. Viz does a remarkable job with the comics and they are reasonably priced. If they could: 1. Send comics on time (comic stores get comics before subcribers) , 2. Send the right comic (happened last month), 3. Keep their subsciption list straight during the winter (every year for the last three years I've had to call because my comics never arrived, when Spring rolls around there is never a problem); I wouldn't have a problem.
2. A Viz representative said that as long as site who carry Manga didn't advertise, they were "ok" with translated DB and DBZ manga.
3. I'm puzzled with what Viz is doing. If you release two chapters of DBZ a month that means DBZ will run for twelve and a half years and DB will run for nine years. That could be possibly three Presidents away. Viz should translate DBZ four chapters a month and speed this process up before I'm reading these comics to my kids. :->
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999 03:00:14 GMT, pmille...@mindspring.com (Paul C.
Miller) wrote: >1. I'd wait until Viz comes out with the graphic novels at this point. >Viz does a remarkable job with the comics and they are reasonably >priced.
Any word on when these will be available? I'm simply curious about the quality of the books themselves, for comparison's sake (I have all of the Dragon Ball manga in Japanese already, although unfortunately I haven't had the time to flip through the books and translate them for myself).
>2. A Viz representative said that as long as site who carry Manga >didn't advertise, they were "ok" with translated DB and DBZ manga.
Out of curiosity, where did you hear that, Paul?
I've read the comments by Oliver Chin on the Daily Dragon Ball Chapters website, and despite what the maintainer has said, it looks to me that Viz is intolerant of any unauthorized translations.
"3. As an official licensee, Viz supports authorized and licensed translations of Japanese material. We appreciate fans' desire to access their favorite series as quickly as possible, and encourage their enthusiasm as long as it does not undermine the building of the market for legal products.
As with fansubbing of anime, manga translation should cease upon publication of licensed product, lest bootlegging continue to damage the legitimacy of the market."
They state above, "As an official licensee [of Dragon Ball], Viz supports authorized and licensed translations of Japanese material" -- which means they do _not_ support unauthorized and unlicensed translations of Dragon Ball. This makes it painfully obvious to me that they aren't "ok" with unauthorized translations, which includes fanscans and possibly text translations.
And if that wasn't clear enough, they specifically state in the second paragraph beginning with "manga translation should cease upon publication of licensed product..." that all fan translations of Dragon Ball should have ended over a year ago, when the series first premiered in early 1998.
Have you heard any different?
>3. I'm puzzled with what Viz is doing. If you release two chapters of >DBZ a month that means DBZ will run for twelve and a half years and DB >will run for nine years. That could be possibly three Presidents away. >Viz should translate DBZ four chapters a month and speed this process >up before I'm reading these comics to my kids. :->
Viz goes about as fast as a normal Japanese weekly manga magazine, but it all feels so horrendously slow because the two chapters for both "series" are released once a month, not once a week, like it was in Japan (when the series was still being serialized in Shonen Jump).
Personally, I'd adore Viz if they could somehow get the original color Dragon Ball art work and republish it here. It would save me the trouble of looking for those rare Shonen Jumps that had sections of the story in full color (but hey, searching for those is an adventure in itself).
Wuken "That's because that samurai is special. mailto:sabes...@ucla.edu He was a husband who cared for my daughter http://toriyama.tierranet.com/ in her dying, last moments." http://www.toriyama.org/ -- Oibore, from Rurouni Kenshin
>Personally, I'd adore Viz if they could somehow get the original color >Dragon Ball art work and republish it here. It would save me the >trouble of looking for those rare Shonen Jumps that had sections of >the story in full color (but hey, searching for those is an adventure >in itself).
My local comic store has these enormous volumes of books in Kanji, but seeing as I DONT read kanji, I don't know if they're shonen or not, but Viz is putting the covers from the original Shonen Jumps on the comics. And once in a while they include full color posters
-Son Goku Saotome-
Goku: Prepare For Trouble Pikachu: Pi Pika!*Make it double Goku: To Protect The World From Devestation Pikachu: Pika Pi Pi!*to ignite all peoples in our nation Goku: PIKACHU! UNITE! Pikachu: Pi..*sorry.. Goku: Its Ok...
On 24 Jan 1999 16:25:45 GMT, frodo...@aol.com (Frodoj13) wrote:
>>Personally, I'd adore Viz if they could somehow get the original color >>Dragon Ball art work and republish it here. It would save me the >>trouble of looking for those rare Shonen Jumps that had sections of >>the story in full color (but hey, searching for those is an adventure >>in itself).
>My local comic store has these enormous volumes of books in Kanji, but seeing >as I DONT read kanji, I don't know if they're shonen or not,
Huh?
>but Viz is putting the covers from the original Shonen Jumps on the comics. >And once in a while they include full color posters
I'm well aware of that. Trouble is, I already have all of the color artwork that Viz has put on the covers of their Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z comics, and more. Viz simply reproduces the images found in the Dragon Ball Daizenshuu: Illustrations book.
I was referring to portions of Dragon Ball chapters that were printed in color. Here's an example:
Akira Toriyama didn't do a lot of chapters in color, considering that Dragon Ball ran for over 10 years. In contrast, Eiichirou Oda, who does the hilarious manga One Piece, whips out color artwork and portions of chapters in color every couple of weeks. Which is impressive, when you consider that One Piece is only a little over a year old...
When did Viz throw in another batch of fold-out posters? I have their first set (which, again, are reprints from the book mentioned above).
Wuken "That's because that samurai is special. mailto:sabes...@ucla.edu He was a husband who cared for my daughter http://toriyama.tierranet.com/ in her dying, last moments." http://www.toriyama.org/ -- Oibore, from Rurouni Kenshin
>>Oh yeah, and I got Mixx's Sailor Moon #4 to add to my collection as >>well.
>That issue was great
YEAH! Tuxedo Mask brainwashed Andrew and he was evil, and he brainwashed Lita to lead them to their control room, and Minako kicked her, and Tux got the crystal, and he looked evil! And it was so cheesy and funny! And Darien has absolutely NO FASHION SENSE! Did you see that shirt he was wearing in the last panel of #3?? What?
>YEAH! Tuxedo Mask brainwashed Andrew and he was evil, and he >brainwashed Lita to lead them to their control room, and Minako kicked >her, and Tux got the crystal, and he looked evil! And it was so cheesy >and funny! And Darien has absolutely NO FASHION SENSE! Did you see >that shirt he was wearing in the last panel of #3?? What?
::laughs:: Evil Andrew was cool *What are you talking about? This is my best friend Endo!* ENDO?! I had to read through the magazine 3 times to figure out what was going on, sure, but that doesn't matter:) LOL! "Dont scratch the marble, V-Babe!"
-Son Goku Saotome-
"You mean.. you peep at men too?!!" The Original Naoko Takeuchi Obsessed Freak Beware The Hammer
> >2. A Viz representative said that as long as site who carry Manga > >didn't advertise, they were "ok" with translated DB and DBZ manga.
> Out of curiosity, where did you hear that, Paul?
It was on my page (the DDBC). I emailed Oliver Chin as well as a Viz employee just to see how their replies would differ. The employee's said that as long as the maintainers didn't advertise, Viz was "ok" with it. (see db.silicon-north.com/news.html for the full reply - it's near the bottom)
> They state above, "As an official licensee [of Dragon Ball], Viz > supports authorized and licensed translations of Japanese material" -- > which means they do _not_ support unauthorized and unlicensed > translations of Dragon Ball. This makes it painfully obvious to me > that they aren't "ok" with unauthorized translations, which includes > fanscans and possibly text translations.
It may be obvious to you, but I see it differently. Of course they support authorized, licensed translations (that would be them), but they have never made a statement such as "Fanscans and text translations are violations which we actively oppose" I'm sure that if they were *REALLY* against it, they would've notified me by now. (And I know for a fact that ppl there now about the DDBC) That's what happened to the KOR Project - they got an email telling them what they were doing was illegal and that they had to take down the chapters or face legal action. (There's a link to the KOR Project from my links at db.silicon-north.com/dblinks.html )
> And if that wasn't clear enough, they specifically state in the second > paragraph beginning with "manga translation should cease upon > publication of licensed product..." that all fan translations of > Dragon Ball should have ended over a year ago, when the series first > premiered in early 1998.
Publication of licensed product - as far as I know, the vast majority of DB manga hasn't been published yet. ^_- Taking Oliver's statment that way would mean expecting fansub distributors to stop distribution of *all* DBZ movies just because the first three have been released.
> >2. A Viz representative said that as long as site who carry Manga > >didn't advertise, they were "ok" with translated DB and DBZ manga.
> Out of curiosity, where did you hear that, Paul?
It was on my page (the DDBC). I emailed Oliver Chin as well as a Viz employee just to see how their replies would differ. The employee's said that as long as the maintainers didn't advertise, Viz was "ok" with it. (see db.silicon-north.com/news.html for the full reply - it's near the bottom)
> They state above, "As an official licensee [of Dragon Ball], Viz > supports authorized and licensed translations of Japanese material" -- > which means they do _not_ support unauthorized and unlicensed > translations of Dragon Ball. This makes it painfully obvious to me > that they aren't "ok" with unauthorized translations, which includes > fanscans and possibly text translations.
It may be obvious to you, but I see it differently. Of course they support authorized, licensed translations (that would be them), but they have never made a statement such as "Fanscans and text translations are violations which we actively oppose" I'm sure that if they were *REALLY* against it, they would've notified me by now. (And I know for a fact that ppl there know about the DDBC)
That's what happened to the KOR Project - they got an email telling them what they were doing was illegal and that they had to take down the chapters or face legal action. (There's a link to the KOR Project from my links at db.silicon-north.com/dblinks.html )
> And if that wasn't clear enough, they specifically state in the second > paragraph beginning with "manga translation should cease upon > publication of licensed product..." that all fan translations of > Dragon Ball should have ended over a year ago, when the series first > premiered in early 1998.
Publication of licensed product - as far as I know, the vast majority of DB manga hasn't been published yet. ^_- Taking Oliver's statment that way would be like expecting fansub distributors to stop distribution of *all* DBZ movies just because the first three have been released.
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:19:50 GMT, sh...@bellatlantic.net wrote: >sabes...@ucla.edu wrote:
>> >2. A Viz representative said that as long as site who carry Manga >> >didn't advertise, they were "ok" with translated DB and DBZ manga.
>> Out of curiosity, where did you hear that, Paul?
>It was on my page (the DDBC). I emailed Oliver Chin as well as a Viz >employee just to see how their replies would differ. The employee's said >that as long as the maintainers didn't advertise, Viz was "ok" with it. (see >db.silicon-north.com/news.html for the full reply - it's near the bottom)
Yet in the same sentence he said that he didn't know the official stance by Viz on these sort of things.
>> They state above, "As an official licensee [of Dragon Ball], Viz >> supports authorized and licensed translations of Japanese material" -- >> which means they do _not_ support unauthorized and unlicensed >> translations of Dragon Ball. This makes it painfully obvious to me >> that they aren't "ok" with unauthorized translations, which includes >> fanscans and possibly text translations.
>It may be obvious to you, but I see it differently. Of course they support >authorized, licensed translations (that would be them), but they have never >made a statement such as "Fanscans and text translations are violations which >we actively oppose" I'm sure that if they were *REALLY* against it, they >would've notified me by now. (And I know for a fact that ppl there know >about the DDBC)
How can you be so sure about that? Did you e-mail Viz, telling them about your site? Did you receive a reply specifically stating that "Yes, we know about your site, the _Daily Dragon Ball Chapters_, and hey, we're okay with the fanscans on it". The fan translations Jason Thompson is referring to could very well be the summaries done by Hitoshi Doi and Curtis Hoffmann, and not the ones on your site. That's a definite possibility. The Daily Dragon Ball Chapters hasn't finished all 42 volumes (excluding parts of 1, 2, 17, and 18, of course), but here Jason says that without them [the "fan-translated manga"], he wouldn't have been able to understand all 42 volumes. Something doesn't fit -- if the Daily Dragon Ball Chapters hasn't finished translating all 42 volumes of Dragon Ball, then how could Jason have said that he'd be able to understand all 42 volumes via your site? That is why I'm more inclined to believe that he's referring to Hoffmann and Doi's summaries (which were finished years ago, and cover all 42 volumes) when referring to the subject of "fan-translated manga".
Speaking of which, I've read the e-mails on the site numerous times over, and the word "fan-translated manga" mentioned in the e-mail to Jason Thompson is VERY ambiguous.
Traditionally, when manga was translated by fans into English, people wrote up text files as an accompaniment to the original manga. The text files were aids to the original work; they were not meant to be used as a substitute for it. In order to get the most out of the text-only translations and summaries, it was imperative that one go out and buy the corresponding volume(s). Nowadays, most text translations are set up so that if you don't have the corresponding volume in front of you, it would be nigh impossible to get a grasp of what was really going on -- it'd be like watching a movie with no video.
This is what I believe Jason is referring to. Obviously, summaries of Dragon Ball won't cut into sales of their comics at all -- they're only summaries, and by nature, only provide a general gist of what is going on. Text-only translations, however, could pose a threat, as they are translations of the original work and might compete with the domestic product by persuading others to look for the original Japanese volumes instead of the commercially available product here. I don't have any problems with text translations personally; as a matter of fact, I will take a text translation over a fanscan due to 1) small download size, 2) overall better translation because one isn't restricted to shortening sentences to fit in bubbles, and 3) even if it takes the profit away from those who publish the domestic product, that money will most likely be used towards another legal product -- the original Japanese tankouban.
Fanscans are an entirely different matter.
Because fanscans include both a text translation AND the original art, you're getting an entire package -- using the analogy above, you're getting audio AND video -- the whole movie. The need to buy the original tankouban to see the art and understand how the text-only translations fit into the work is greatly diminished, and in some cases, completely eliminated. Sometimes people will not even bother to buy either the original Japanese tankouban or the domestic English-language product simply because they have the fanscan, and that is doing nothing but taking money away from the copyright holders, artists, and everyone else who worked hard to bring that work on both sides of the Pacific. For every one person I know who vows to buy either the Viz version or the original Jump Comics version of Dragon Ball, I know four who won't because they have the fanscan. That's scary.
I know you realize that this sort of mentality exists, Eric -- in fact, I notice that it's the topic of your latest poll (what are the results so far on that, by the way?). Don't get me wrong, I too would like to see all of Dragon Ball someday translated into English; I just have problems with the idea of the fanscan and how it's being used in this case. I don't mind fanscans as long as they are used in good faith -- a couple of pages here and there are fine to generate interest in the work, but when entire books are scanned, the idea just gets abused. This is one of the main reasons why I'm very hesitant to reissue the files on Suushinchuu -- people were downloading the music files on it and in many cases not bothering to look for the CDs, which is what I wanted them to do in the first place.
In retrospect, I should have offered only samples and snippets of songs, instead of entire tracks. You live and learn, I suppose.
>That's what happened to the KOR Project - they got an email telling them what >they were doing was illegal and that they had to take down the chapters or >face legal action. (There's a link to the KOR Project from my links at >db.silicon-north.com/dblinks.html )
Yeah, I heard about that. I also noticed that its sister project, the Dragon Ball Project, shut itself down soon after word got out that Viz had picked up Dragon Ball.
>> And if that wasn't clear enough, they specifically state in the second >> paragraph beginning with "manga translation should cease upon >> publication of licensed product..." that all fan translations of >> Dragon Ball should have ended over a year ago, when the series first >> premiered in early 1998.
>Publication of licensed product - as far as I know, the vast majority of DB >manga hasn't been published yet. ^_- Taking Oliver's statment that way would >be like expecting fansub distributors to stop distribution of *all* DBZ movies >just because the first three have been released.
That's comparing apples and oranges. Pioneer Entertainment owns the rights to the first three movies, whereas Viz owns the rights to ALL of the Dragon Ball manga. Fanscans of Dragon Ball manga, regardless of whether or not Viz has published them, are treading on copyrights owned here. When they say, "... publication of licensed product...", they mean that once a series is published here domestically, any and all fan-translations, even of the episodes not yet published, are off-limits. That isn't just my personal interpretation, it is the stance of many companies out there. Pioneer Entertainment, for example, has been known to drive out dealers who sell Dragon Ball Z fansubs, no matter at what point in the series those fansubs cover, at anime conventions.
If Viz is fine with all these fanscans running about, then that's alright by me. It's not my company, after all. I'm just a little disappointed that people aren't showing their support for the manga that they love by putting their money where their mouth is and buying either the domestic products or the original Japanese volumes (surely, $5 for a Dragon Ball volume in Japanese is not that expensive, and they are ALWAYS readily available from many online stores, because Dragon Ball is reprinted practically every other month). I blame fanscans for that.
Eric, just to let you know, I really admire what you are trying to do; I just don't agree with the method you've chosen to accomplish that goal. If your intention is both to provide fans with translations of Dragon Ball as well as promote the manga, then that is indeed a very noble cause to work for; however, I still believe that that end could be met just as easily via text-only translations, which cannot readily serve as substitutes for the original work.
Speaking of which, http://www.toriyama.org/ will offer a text-only translation of Akira Toriyama's newest longform manga, "Kajika", sometime this week. Of course, close friends of mine already know that translations of the entire series have been available for months already, but this is the first time I'm releasing them publicly.
The Kajika manga is available in Japanese bookstores now. It contains 201 pages of black and white art, and retails for 390 yen (about $5.00 here in America). The ISBN number is 4-08-872658-8. If you'd like to see the cover, check out the following URL:
When I find the time, I'll make a more complete page about Kajika, including some history behind it and scans of the color artwork that accompanied it while it was being serialized in Weekly Shonen Jump. For more information about Kajika, please visit our site, toriyama.org.
Wuken wrote in message <36ad6946.2292...@192.168.0.1>... >On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:19:50 GMT, sh...@bellatlantic.net wrote: >>sabes...@ucla.edu wrote:
>>> >2. A Viz representative said that as long as site who carry Manga >>> >didn't advertise, they were "ok" with translated DB and DBZ manga.
>>> Out of curiosity, where did you hear that, Paul?
>>It was on my page (the DDBC). I emailed Oliver Chin as well as a Viz >>employee just to see how their replies would differ. The employee's said >>that as long as the maintainers didn't advertise, Viz was "ok" with it. (see >>db.silicon-north.com/news.html for the full reply - it's near the bottom)
>Yet in the same sentence he said that he didn't know the official >stance by Viz on these sort of things.
>>> They state above, "As an official licensee [of Dragon Ball], Viz >>> supports authorized and licensed translations of Japanese material" -- >>> which means they do _not_ support unauthorized and unlicensed >>> translations of Dragon Ball. This makes it painfully obvious to me >>> that they aren't "ok" with unauthorized translations, which includes >>> fanscans and possibly text translations.
>>It may be obvious to you, but I see it differently. Of course they support >>authorized, licensed translations (that would be them), but they have never >>made a statement such as "Fanscans and text translations are violations which >>we actively oppose" I'm sure that if they were *REALLY* against it, they >>would've notified me by now. (And I know for a fact that ppl there know >>about the DDBC)
>How can you be so sure about that? Did you e-mail Viz, telling them >about your site? Did you receive a reply specifically stating that >"Yes, we know about your site, the _Daily Dragon Ball Chapters_, and >hey, we're okay with the fanscans on it". The fan translations Jason >Thompson is referring to could very well be the summaries done by >Hitoshi Doi and Curtis Hoffmann, and not the ones on your site. That's >a definite possibility. The Daily Dragon Ball Chapters hasn't finished >all 42 volumes (excluding parts of 1, 2, 17, and 18, of course), but >here Jason says that without them [the "fan-translated manga"], he >wouldn't have been able to understand all 42 volumes. Something >doesn't fit -- if the Daily Dragon Ball Chapters hasn't finished >translating all 42 volumes of Dragon Ball, then how could Jason have >said that he'd be able to understand all 42 volumes via your site? >That is why I'm more inclined to believe that he's referring to >Hoffmann and Doi's summaries (which were finished years ago, and cover >all 42 volumes) when referring to the subject of "fan-translated >manga".
>Speaking of which, I've read the e-mails on the site numerous times >over, and the word "fan-translated manga" mentioned in the e-mail to >Jason Thompson is VERY ambiguous.
>Traditionally, when manga was translated by fans into English, people >wrote up text files as an accompaniment to the original manga. The >text files were aids to the original work; they were not meant to be >used as a substitute for it. In order to get the most out of the >text-only translations and summaries, it was imperative that one go >out and buy the corresponding volume(s). Nowadays, most text >translations are set up so that if you don't have the corresponding >volume in front of you, it would be nigh impossible to get a grasp of >what was really going on -- it'd be like watching a movie with no >video.
>This is what I believe Jason is referring to. Obviously, summaries of >Dragon Ball won't cut into sales of their comics at all -- they're >only summaries, and by nature, only provide a general gist of what is >going on. Text-only translations, however, could pose a threat, as >they are translations of the original work and might compete with the >domestic product by persuading others to look for the original >Japanese volumes instead of the commercially available product here. I >don't have any problems with text translations personally; as a matter >of fact, I will take a text translation over a fanscan due to 1) small >download size, 2) overall better translation because one isn't >restricted to shortening sentences to fit in bubbles, and 3) even if >it takes the profit away from those who publish the domestic product, >that money will most likely be used towards another legal product -- >the original Japanese tankouban.
>Fanscans are an entirely different matter.
>Because fanscans include both a text translation AND the original art, >you're getting an entire package -- using the analogy above, you're >getting audio AND video -- the whole movie. The need to buy the >original tankouban to see the art and understand how the text-only >translations fit into the work is greatly diminished, and in some >cases, completely eliminated. Sometimes people will not even bother to >buy either the original Japanese tankouban or the domestic >English-language product simply because they have the fanscan, and >that is doing nothing but taking money away from the copyright >holders, artists, and everyone else who worked hard to bring that work >on both sides of the Pacific. For every one person I know who vows to >buy either the Viz version or the original Jump Comics version of >Dragon Ball, I know four who won't because they have the fanscan. >That's scary.
>I know you realize that this sort of mentality exists, Eric -- in >fact, I notice that it's the topic of your latest poll (what are the >results so far on that, by the way?). Don't get me wrong, I too would >like to see all of Dragon Ball someday translated into English; I just >have problems with the idea of the fanscan and how it's being used in >this case. I don't mind fanscans as long as they are used in good >faith -- a couple of pages here and there are fine to generate >interest in the work, but when entire books are scanned, the idea just >gets abused. This is one of the main reasons why I'm very hesitant to >reissue the files on Suushinchuu -- people were downloading the music >files on it and in many cases not bothering to look for the CDs, which >is what I wanted them to do in the first place.
>In retrospect, I should have offered only samples and snippets of >songs, instead of entire tracks. You live and learn, I suppose.
>>That's what happened to the KOR Project - they got an email telling them what >>they were doing was illegal and that they had to take down the chapters or >>face legal action. (There's a link to the KOR Project from my links at >>db.silicon-north.com/dblinks.html )
>Yeah, I heard about that. I also noticed that its sister project, the >Dragon Ball Project, shut itself down soon after word got out that Viz >had picked up Dragon Ball.
>>> And if that wasn't clear enough, they specifically state in the second >>> paragraph beginning with "manga translation should cease upon >>> publication of licensed product..." that all fan translations of >>> Dragon Ball should have ended over a year ago, when the series first >>> premiered in early 1998.
>>Publication of licensed product - as far as I know, the vast majority of DB >>manga hasn't been published yet. ^_- Taking Oliver's statment that way would >>be like expecting fansub distributors to stop distribution of *all* DBZ movies >>just because the first three have been released.
>That's comparing apples and oranges. Pioneer Entertainment owns the >rights to the first three movies, whereas Viz owns the rights to ALL >of the Dragon Ball manga. Fanscans of Dragon Ball manga, regardless of >whether or not Viz has published them, are treading on copyrights >owned here. When they say, "... publication of licensed product...", >they mean that once a series is published here domestically, any and >all fan-translations, even of the episodes not yet published, are >off-limits. That isn't just my personal interpretation, it is the >stance of many companies out there. Pioneer Entertainment, for >example, has been known to drive out dealers who sell Dragon Ball Z >fansubs, no matter at what point in the series those fansubs cover, at >anime conventions.
>If Viz is fine with all these fanscans running about, then that's >alright by me. It's not my company, after all. I'm just a little >disappointed that people aren't showing their support for the manga >that they love by putting their money where their mouth is and buying >either the domestic products or the original Japanese volumes (surely, >$5 for a Dragon Ball volume in Japanese is not that expensive, and >they are ALWAYS readily available from many online stores, because >Dragon Ball is reprinted practically every other month). I blame >fanscans for that.
>Eric, just to let you know, I really admire what you are trying to do; >I just don't agree with the method you've chosen to accomplish that >goal. If your intention is both to provide fans with translations of >Dragon Ball as well as promote the manga, then that is indeed a very >noble cause to work for; however, I still believe that that end could >be met just as easily via text-only translations, which cannot readily >serve as substitutes for the original work.
>Speaking of which, http://www.toriyama.org/ will offer a text-only >translation of Akira Toriyama's newest longform manga, "Kajika", >sometime this week. Of course, close friends of mine already know that >translations of the entire series have been available for months >already, but this is the first time I'm releasing them publicly.
>The Kajika manga is available in Japanese bookstores now. It contains >201 pages of black and white art, and retails for 390 yen (about $5.00 >here in America). The ISBN number is 4-08-872658-8. If you'd like to >see the cover, check out the following URL:
